#with mike and will doing their thing | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

chirpsythismorning · 2 years

Note

Hi. How do you think Byler will happen in s5? I mean with Mike and Eleven and then Mike and Will?

I agree with a lot of bylers that Mike and El are probably going to break up at the start of s5.

Some fans even speculate they already broke up off-screen during the 2 day time-skip at the end of s4, which is definitely possible.

Either way, I think it's likely they’ll settle things right off the bat because that’s just how the Duffers roll.

Think about how when it came to the whole Nancy/Jonathan/Steve Love triangle, they made sure to always have Nancy be (at the very least ambiguously) separated from Steve before her and Jonathan teamed up?

In s1 it was a little more gradual and subtle, but by s2 they jumped right into the nitty gritty, having Nancy and Steve’s conflict at the very beginning, which then in turn allowed viewers to focus on Nancy and Jonathan’s relationship for the rest of the season.

And so, Mike and El ambiguously breaking up at the start s4? Only for Will and Mike to go on a road trip in the desert for the rest of the season?

That, in and of itself, is proof enough that they want us to consider looking at Mike and Will as being a possibility, as this is literally a technique they use for introducing new romantic pairings.

Although s4 byler operates throughout like s2 jancy, it ends like s1 jancy. At the end of s4, Mike’s monologue tries to make us believe things are perfect in paradise, which parallels quite nicely with the way Nancy and Steve being thrown back together in the s1 epilogue tries to make us believe things are perfect in paradise for them as well, only for us to find out at the start of s2 that this wasn't at all the case.

Which is why I believe that s5 byler has to essentially follow the same formula as s2 jancy again.

Because at the end of s4, we’re left in a spot where we’ve had all this build-up for Mike and Will, and so if they are ending up together, and are even perhaps going to be spending a good portion of time on screen together during the last season, it wouldn’t make sense to have all their tension be riddled with the audience feeling icky because Mike and El are still technically together, for the same reason it never would have worked with Nancy/Jonathan/Steve.

What I think is interesting about byler though, is that technically Mike and El’s break up was so ambiguous, that we don’t even know if they actually got back together?

Like we keep talking about them breaking up in s5, but I honestly wouldn’t even be surprised if the writers frame their confrontation in a way that acknowledges them as having been broken up since Lenora and having stayed that way.

The only way I could see them dragging out the ambiguity of Mike and El's romance, is if the audience knows they're not together anymore at the beginning, but we're seeing Will assume the opposite until near the end. That's the only way I feel like it would work though, because otherwise all of their scenes wouldn't feel right. And it definitely needs to feel right.

After years of dancing around Mike and Will as a romantic pairing, they need to make it clear that they want us to be rooting for them. Which is why they're likely to continue following the formula they've always followed.

But the thing is, Mike and El's break-up in early s4 is equally as ambiguous as Nancy and Steve's break-up was in early s2. They didn't outright say it, but one of them couldn't say I love you to the other, followed by that same person going on a trip with someone who has feelings for them... This means that s5 can't get any more ambiguous than that (especially considering Mike and El's own history with breaking up as it is). There isn't much in between in there, and so that's very likely how it will go down from what I've gathered.

TBH, it all largely depends on how they address Mike’s monologue, I guess. Technically El didn’t seem too happy about what he had to say, and so why would would they even be back together because of that?

That might also explain both Mike and El’s behavior once they returned to Hawkins. It’s not that his monologue didn’t work even, it’s that the monologue in and of itself wasn’t Mike saying, “Hey I know you broke up with me, but please take me back,”. And even if it was, El was the one who was implied to end things between them in the first place, just like in s3. Which is why in s3, it required her confronting him to address things in order for them to get back together. Which means we would need her confronting him and verbally confirming that she wants to be back together (again). But we didn’t get that at the end of s4...

If anything El is in the exact same position Mike was at the end of s3. He told her how he felt, but she didn’t get to say how she felt and now things are kind of left in the unknown. I think luckily it's very likely El knows Mike doesn't feel about her the way he's trying to convince her and everyone (and himself) he does, and so she has no reason to play along in getting back together the way Mike felt obligated to between s3-4. That’s also why I think she is going to be the main catalyst for them ending things, because the ball is still in her court and I highly doubt she's going to say i love you too (too)... If anything, she's going to dump his ass (again).

Regardless of how it plays out, I see that happening fairly early on, most likely between 5x01-5x02.

I do hope we'll also get to see El actually acknowledging byler in a way that is substantial, before it’s out in the open and obvious to everyone else in the story.

Something I only realized recently, and what I find very interesting, is that we don’t really ever have El acknowledging Will and Mike’s friendship... like, at all.

Besides that one mention in her letter at the start of s4, that’s the most we’ve got since s1 of El actually acknowledging their relationship (and in those few cases, she wasn’t really acknowledging it). It’s as if her perspective of her relationship with Mike is worlds apart from whatever she views Mike and Will's relationship as being.

And so, how convenient that the first time El is really going to be looking at them, she’ll finally be seeing them for what they truly are: not platonic whatsoever.

When it comes to byler and how that will play out throughout the final season, my take on things might be a teensy bit controversial...

I think that something is going to happen at the end of 5x02 (bc of some foreshadowing/just a feeling), a huge cliffhanger, possibly related to Mike and his presumed death (he will resurrect don’t fret).

I’m leaning less towards him dying and more towards him sacrificing himself in some way related to the upside down. I don’t see why they would foreshadow him going there so much if he isn’t going to end up there, but also it seems weird to even emphasize him going in the upside down if it’s already presumed to be leaking into Hawkins, like it doesn’t even seem that scary for Mike to be stuck there in that scenario? So maybe it’s a gates being closed at the last second situation, with him then him being stuck there?

I do think Will is likely to join him, though this is where the controversy comes in.

I think Mike is going to be out on his own, most likely between 5x03-5x04, with the cliffhanger at the end 5x04 (vol 1) being Will finding him/joining him somehow. This means 1-2 episodes of Mike and Will being completely separate-- GASP

Because of the foreshadowing placing Mike in the upside down, notably, and yet still shortly BEFORE Will, is why I see it happening this way. Though, none of this rules out Will confronting Vecna, as I think a lot of evidence points to the fact that s5 will start off in a way that will place Will's connection with Vecna at the center of it all. This is also why I think they have been heavily implying s5 will focus on will a great deal whenever they talk about s5, bc it's a lot less spoilery for them to give us crumbs for what early s5 entails vs what late s5 will entail.

And so I do believe 5x01-5x02 will largely involve them planning and executing their plan within the first official phase of the now impending apocalypse. And this phase will no doubt impact Will in a tremendous way, arguably the most. The Duffer's have referred to the first few hours of s5 in a way that almost made it sound seperate from the rest, which is kind of why I'm intrigued to place Mike's presumed death/sacrifice at this point that seperates the first few hours from the rest. Where near the end of Will's sort of confrontation with Vecna in early s5, Mike is going to be the one taking the brunt of the effects of that.

This could also parallel nicely with the ending of 1x03 when they find Will's body. Considering how much they've talked about going full circle back to s1, it would be interesting to see a cliffhanger that resembles that one from The Body in particular, because it's honestly so painfully beautiful that I think a future scene paralleling it might be the end of me.

Regardless of my wants and dreams about how exactly this could all play out, I think that the cliffhanger for 5x04 is likely going to involve byler ending up together in the upside down, reunited after being apart for some time.

I should also say that I do indeed think S5 could be split into two volumes again (most of my theory is based on that assumption, so if that ends up not being the case, lets just pretend this never happened).

I think this because just in terms of promotion, it’s easier to get consumers to buy things when the hype is still there. They have numerous collaborations they do with businesses with like Doritos, Sour Patch Kids, JanSport, and dozens of others. And I am willing to bet the sales were a lot better for products with ST slapped on them during s4 than previous seasons, solely bc of the fact that the hype lasted for months as opposed to maybe a month at most.

Not only that, but with it being the final season, the show is going to be gone forever after this. It's over (minus the enigmatic spin-off). So it would make sense for them to stretch out the very last run for as long as they can. The split also gives the Duffers more time to edit episodes in vol 2, all while vol 1 is premiering, just like they did for s4.

And also just like s4, I think this approach creates a necessity for a cliffhanger to create hype in between. And I think that’s the perfect opportunity to hype of a reunion for Mike and Will after them being apart.

We’ve seen that separating them allows us to see more clearly how they feel about each other, especially Mike in s1 (and then how that impacted their relationship in s2).

And so if we were to get Mike, in canon, on our screens, everyone and their moms watching, acknowledging his feelings for Will, I do think it would make sense for him to be alone and thinking through some things, and with us sitting along for the ride.

And so them being apart for at least one episode is a given, because that will give us the excitement that comes with seeing them having those realizations while they are apart, followed by the excitement and anticipation that comes with them being face to face again.

This would also allow the second half of s5 to scream s2 byler... just let that sink in.

Considering all of the foreshadowing singling out Mike and Will in particular in regards to the ud, we could be seeing them alone together for at least 1-2 episodes, though I still think during this time there will be some tension and denial going on. Maybe they fought before they initially got separated and things are still awkward despite them being relieved to be reunited. Or maybe during this time is when their final boss fight happens (paralleling their 3x03/4x02 fights). I do think that the denial is likely to be on Will's side mostly though post reunion, as we haven't seen their relationship from the perspective of Mike being in the know and Will being clueless, and so we're due for at least some of that before they get together.

But in all fairness, the likelihood that they’ll be surrounded by danger in the apocalypse, means a lot of their time together alone will most likely be spent in survival mode. I do think this would then be what the Duffers foreshadowed happening in s4, with byler in Jonathan's room in front of the upside down tapestry and then on the upside down couch in the cabin. (Not to mention, the Duffers saying s5 being inspired by LOTR: The Return of the King feels like pretty obvious hinting at Mike and Will in the upside down, with them being paralleled to Sam and Frodo already. So, there is indeed a lot to go off of here, all pointing to them being isolated, on a dangerous journey).

By 5x07 I would hope they’d finally be reunited with the others, but I think it’s still possible they could either be by themselves or at least hopefully interacting with a few other people at this point (Murray is going to pull up on them at some point, it is inevitable). I do think that this will be the episode that gets more serious in terms of leading to the inevitable...

Yes. I am a Mike and Will are going to officially be canon at the end of 5x07 truther (the grid the st writers posted on twitter agrees w me). I could definitely see their first kiss happening at this moment, seeing as the kiss in and of itself would be what's telling us they're together now basically.

For people that think 5x07 is too late, i'm sorry, this is just how slow-burn works. Their first kiss happening in vol 1 of s5 would be too soon, but it would also be too anticlimactic for them to wait for a first kiss until the very very end when they're happy and together in the epilogue. And so it’s most likely we'll get an almost or multiple (between 5x01-5x06), then a first kiss(es) in 5x07, and then maybe if we're lucky again during endgame goodbyes in the finale (5x08).

We know that the Duffers have said they have the last 30 minutes or so very clear in their heads, with them planning a bunch of endings for different characters, along with David saying for years that the ending is really beautiful, and so I have a good feeling that at least 1/3 of the series finale will be fluff, with a dash of bittersweet mourning, assuming at least one major character doesn't make it out alive. That thirty minutes or so will likely be used to just close off all those storylines nicely in a way that feels as satisfying as it can possibly be considering.

If there's anything I do feel confident about, it's that I think byler will end the series being framed in a way that’s quite similar to the ending of s1, where it acknowledges them as being connected to the party/dnd in a substantial way again, along with their other friends/family, but also with the two of them having their own little world separate from the others within that.

And El will also of course be a part of their life, with her family (as a sister/daughter) and friend, and yet with her too finally having her own world separate from everyone and being content with that. For so long she's been running away from people hurting her and as a result she's had to depend on others just to survive. I think she's always believed this was the only way for her and that because of this, being alone was a bad thing. When in reality I think she's going to come to realize being alone doesn't have to mean she's running away from someone or running towards someone else. On her own she's still worthy and she's more than enough. She is her own superhero. And she shouldn't have to feel less than just because she doesn't have to depend on others to dictate her worth for her anymore. She dictates that herself.

I hope (fully believe) they'll all find happiness!