#why does tikki do this

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

As a follow up to you post about mentors, just to make things fair, what are examples of Tikki being a bad mentor to Marinette?

Post in question for context.

Tikki often acts as the voice of the author. She's there to explain why Marinette is in the wrong. Since Miraculous has some wacky morals, that means we get a mix of good advice and wacky nonsense advice.

Two examples of bad advice that come to mind are Gamer and Strikeback. Gamer is the episode where Marinette stumbles upon an Ultimate Mecha Strike tournament, realizes that Adrien is taking part, and decides to compete so they can be on a team together. Marinette wins a spot through her own hard won skills and then this happens:

Tikki: All you wanted to do is spend time with Adrien, there are other ways to do that! Marinette: What are you getting at? Tikki: You know how much Max wanted to be in that tournament. Kim said he'd been training for it all year. Marinette: You're right. All I could think about was Adrien. 

This is how tournaments work, right? They're not tests of skill, but tests of who put in the most work or who wants to compete the most! That's why we had that scene with Marinette writing out her training schedule and motivations for evaluation, but she lied and that was wrong and...

Okay, I was the one lying here. There was no written evaluation because that's not how tournaments work. All anyone cares about is your skills. They don't care if you're doing this for personal glory or to get closer to a boy or whatever Adrien's motivation was because - notably - his motivation didn't matter in this episode about needing pure motives to be allowed to do things.

What if he didn't care about the competition and only did it to get closer to his classmates? That's not even a random guess. It's a valid read because Adrien ultimately gives his spot to Max while claiming that Max is the better player even though Adrien very clearly beat Max at the start of the episode. Ignoring that weird nonsense dialogue, why was it fine for Adrien to compete when he didn't care but wrong for Marinette to do the same? And Max wanting to compete to show off his skills is also a totally selfish motivation, so why does it matter that he wanted it more? Everything about this episode was nonsense and uncomfortably sexist. If Max wants to compete, then he needs to get better at the game. That's how competitions work.

Strikeback is the second part of the season four final and it starts with Marinette mourning the fact that "Adrien" has left Paris, leading to this:

Marinette: (crestfallen) It's all over, Tikki. Tikki: He'll be back, Marinette. He's just going on a voyage!

Which would be lovely advice if Adrien was a normal boy, but he's Chat Noir and Tikki knows that. She should be freaking out and trying to find a way to get him back to Paris, but then Tikki would have to support Marinette's actions and we can't have that, so instead Tikki gives this nonsense advice because she has to be against whatever "wrong" thing Marinette is doing today.

I could come up with a few more examples, but I think those two paint a pretty good picture of issue one re Tikki. However, when it comes to Tikki, my main issue with her is less a wealth of bad advice - unlike Plagg*, I think she's right more often than not - and more a lack of support. It feels like she's just here to judge Marinette and point out when she's doing something wrong, but a good mentor should be so much more than that.

Kuro Neko is a great example of this. When Chat Noir quits, Tikki just sits back and does nothing while her young charge is freaking out. She doesn't even try to defend Marinette when Plagg is going off about Chat Noir's "ill treatment". For all Plagg's faults in that episode, at least he's doing something about the situation. Meanwhile Tikki literally has two lines in the entire episode! A similar thing happens in Kwami's Choice where Plagg is the one driving them to act while Tikki just wrings her hands in despair.

Tikki: (sighs heavily) What can we do? Plagg: We must free them of that impossible choice. We must… free them of us.

These are not the actions of a mentor. Mentors aren't supposed to just offer judgement about things that their mentee has already done or is considering doing. They're supposed to be a source of support and guidance in hard times, but we never really see Tikki stepping in to give Marinette that kind of advice. If memory serves, she never offers solutions or acts as a sounding board. That role is mainly filled by Alya and I love Alya! It's good for Marinette to have support from a friend, but Alya is also a teenager while Tikki is an ancient being who has seen many Ladybugs go through the kind of struggles that Marinette is going through. I expect her to use that knowledge to help her charge, but she never does. This exchange from Passion perfectly highlights this problem:

Tikki: Don't worry, Plagg... my holder has decided to run away from her real feelings to pursue an impossible love with Cat Noir instead. Plagg: Uh, just to be sure, sugarcube, you do know that Cat Noir and my holder are one and the same person, right? Tikki: I do, but my holder doesn't. Plagg: If she declares her love to Cat Noir, something tells me she'll find out soon enough. Tikki: You have nothing to fear. When my holder is in love, she never gets anywhere. She'll just knit hats and make very complicated plans that will never come to fruition. Plagg: Hmm... ah, then everything's fine.

Tikki, I love you, but by the gods! With a mentor like you, Marinette doesn't need enemies to be miserable! Do you care about her at all??? What kind of mentor delights at their mentee's suffering? Not a good one, that's for sure.

*Quick note: I think that Plagg and Tikki are probably neck and neck for who has given the most bad advice, Plagg just feels like the bigger problem because we don't see him as much as we see Tikki. Since she's tied to the main character, Tikki gives advice in almost every episode and most episodes have decent morals.

Adrien's need for good advice can also feel more glaring because he's so isolated and passive. That makes Plagg's lack of good advice feel more harmful, but Marinette is just as isolated from real advice. Her mentor figures - Su Han, Fu, and Tikki - mostly give orders and judgement instead of support and guidance. It's just harder to spot that fact because Marinette is actively trying to do the right thing, meaning that she's more likely to make mistakes, and it's easy to see why she comes across as a lot less pathetic and a lot easier to judge.

[sillysiluriforme]

And the holders, oh god how the holders would view it all.

Nino wouldn't really understand all the reasons why, but he'd know (or learn painfully) that opportunities to DJ are down, that clubs are closing (who would party in such times?) and that people are struggling. Wayzz wouldn't help much, just urging Nino to help and protect whoever he can.

Marinette and Alya would know more due to family businesses, but mostly through belts being tightened, tight eyes and forced smiles as another shipment is delayed, as an order has to be rejected or reduced, as people walk out unable to buy fresh food (or with food in hand, but the bakery that much closer to bankruptcy). Parents too kind to show the whole story, but ears near stairwells and hushed arguments get the message across. Orders are down, purchases fewer yet the shelves are still emptier than Before. They could sell the business, but a whole lifetime down the drain? Starting anew somewhere else, rebuilding from scratch? Besides, no one is buying, and there's no where to go. Perhaps a check comes from the french government, or a tax writeoff, but it's not enough. It's never enough. Trixx would know little, maybe having a holder own an entertainment business or two, but never having paid attention. Tikki may understand, but catching hawkmoth is more important, and would fix everything, right? Right? (Ladybug must carry the weight of the world, but the weight of one city could break this one) But Adrien. Adrien would know. His father wants to keep the business alive, and can do so because his designs can be made elsewhere. Shipped to Paris and photo'd on Adrien. Paris may have been a hub but it's just one in his Empire. He wouldn't hold back either. Anyone unnecessary- cut. Jobs are few but talent is plentiful. Everyone else in fashion is leaving, but no one in paris can follow. Quality can be dropped in Paris - what else can you buy? Pay drops significantly- if fashion is your passion, where else could you work? And Gabriel would tell Adrien everything. He'd expect Adrien to understand it all, to stare the horror down and keep an iron spine. Preferably with a smile on his face, but that softness came from his mother after all. There's opportunity in crisis, and a struggling man can be made to work harder for less. The city may be dying, but there's life to leech yet. And Plagg and the lamb would know. They'd understand the full weight of Paris's situation. Plagg knows that unless hawkmoth is stopped, Paris will die. He can feel the decay, the death, the slowly creeping end. It's his domain after all. He'd lie to Adrien, to provide some comfort, but they both would know the truth, and it's better that Adrien trust Plagg fully than to trade that trust for a brief hint of warmth. The lamb does not know the ways of man. He does not care about imports and exports or any of that. He does know the ways of gods. The cost of their games. The price that must be paid. He knows Sacrifice. And what is the worth of one city, compared to the world? (I love this AU)

[sinister cackling]

[starsfic]

Marinette Dupain-Cheng, Girlfriend of Ladybug

Summary: During another invasive interview pushing her towards Chat Noir, Ladybug panics and claims that she’s dating someone. Who? Oh, just her civilian identity. Dominos unexpectedly topple.

Ko-Fi

-_-

It was a heat of the moment thing.

Ladybug really couldn’t blame herself. Well, technically she could, considering she had agreed to another hour-long interview with Nadja and Chat Noir. Where, of course, the topic inevitably turned back to the nonexistent romantic relationship between her and her partner, not helped at all by the fact  that Chat kept egging it on and nobody seemed to notice or care about her discomfort. The moment Alya appeared on screen and asked “So when are you going to admit your feelings for each other?”

She snapped.

“I have a girlfriend.”

Dead silence encased the studio. Chat gaped at her, Alya gaped at her, Nadja gaped at her, everyone gaped at her. It was only until a hand reached out of the audience that noise came back in. “Excuse me?”

“Yes, I have to agree,” Nadja said, a flustered blush making her cheeks red. “Excuse me?”

Welp, she had already said it, so might as well. “I have a girlfriend,” she repeated. Chat and Alya continued to gape at her. She took a deep breath in and plastered on a stern look. “Nadja, did you ever think the reason why I don’t confess my feelings for Chat is because I don’t have any?”

Silence encased the studio, but it was the silence where people were muttering to each other. Ladybug waited. Chat continued to gape, but Alya shut her mouth and made an odd squeaky noise.

Nadja finally took a deep breath in. When she opened her eyes, she seemed to be staring at her in a different way. Not as an icon or an idol or a celebrity, but as if Ladybug was a real person. She hadn’t even realized that she hadn’t been looking at her that way. “No,” she said. “I’m…so sorry, Ladybug. I hadn’t considered that.” Ladybug nodded but didn’t say a word. “May I ask who it is?”

Well, crap. She hadn’t expected that. She was tempted to say, “No comment,” but then it would be possible that people would catch on to the fact that she was lying. She needed someone. Ladybug thought for a moment and then prayed Tikki wouldn’t be too mad.

“Marinette Dupain-Cheng.”

Once again, the room descended into muttering silence. Chat was pulling out his staff with the angriest look she had ever seen on his face. Ladybug couldn’t help but raise a brow at that. But then Alya spoke with a “NO WAY!”

Ladybug raised a brow. “Are you calling me a liar?”

“Yes!” Alya said, seeming to not care about the fact that she was being televised live. “She’s in love with Adrien Agreste! He’s her soulmate, I’m sure of it!” Geez, Alya, thanks. Chat’s muttering stopped. “She’s been struggling to confess to him since the attacks first began! He’s-”

“A boy, Miss Cesaire,” Ladybug cut her off, keeping her voice bored. Yes, she did have a crush on Adrien once. But her feelings had faded over time, especially when she thought of how he reacted to Chloe and Lila hurting her. “A boy that is well-known and popular with the female population of Paris. A boy that would be expected if a person asked about a celebrity crush.”

Alya stared at her. She could practically see her put the pieces together. “What about Luka Couffaine? She dated him for…a few months!”

“Her and Luka Couffaine, I have discussed with her,” Ladybug said, keeping her voice calm. Her mind raced- she would definitely need to talk to Luka after this. “I will not pretend to be a good girlfriend, Miss Cesaire. Marinette does not know who I am under the mask- if anyone says that they do, they are lying-” Hopefully, that dealt with Lila. “Our relationship had to be kept secret. I cannot take her out on dates or meet her parents. So, we agreed to an open relationship.”

Nadja cleared her throat. “She does not know who you are?”

Ladybug shook her head. “No. We agreed that, after Hawkmoth is defeated and I can retire, I will reveal myself to her and discuss our relationship from there. I’m only being open with my relationship now since she knows I am uncomfortable with people trying to ship me with Chat Noir-”

“Because they know we’re meant to be!” Chat burst out. Honestly, she was surprised that he hadn’t spoken up sooner. He grabbed her hand and tried to pull her close. “My Lady, think about it! We have so much more in common than some random civilian!” His eyes were dark, sending shivers up her spine. “You’re lying about Marinette, right? There’s no way you could fall for some random person-”

“Hey!” Alya spoke up, her voice bordering on fury. “Marinette’s not just some random nobody!” The camera shook as something slammed, most likely Alya’s fist slamming into the desk. “Marinette is the smartest, most creative person I have ever met! She’s probably the greatest actress of all time, and I would say that she has done so much more for Paris than you ever have on your own!” She took a deep breath. “Ladybug, you have great taste.” And with that, Alya’s camera cut short.

Nadja nodded. “Okay, next question,” she said, her voice still a touch strained from the bombshell that was just dropped on her.

Hopefully, this didn’t blow up.

-_-

It blew up.

Tikki, thankfully, didn’t seem mad. “It was clever,” she said before encouraging Marinette to go to bed.

When Marinette woke up surprisingly early, it was to a ton of messages on her social media and email. By the time she left for school, it was a flood that she was too afraid to look at. Her parents were surprisingly happy for her, with her dad apologizing for blowing up in such a way on Chat Noir. “It’s okay,” she said, hugging him. “It was awkward, but it kept Chat from following Ladybug.”

“Which I can’t believe he did!” her mother groused. “You think he would know better!”

“Yeah,” Marinette sighed, old annoyance flaring up. “Me too.”

Thankfully, there wasn’t a crowd of reporters- yet. So Marinette wasted no time in rushing over to school before one did form.

Once she was there, she found herself pausing. A large portion of the people she saw were wearing Ladybug’s spots or LGBTQIA+ merch, from full outfits to just hair clips. Several stopped to smile and give her friendly waves, while others looked starstruck. This was a bigger reaction than she was expecting.

She waved back and headed to her classroom. She sent another prayer to the surprisingly quiet Tikki that nothing happened and opened the door.

The classroom was surprisingly quiet, with Lila sitting in the back looking like she had all the life drained from her, until Marinette stepped inside. “Marinette!” Alya said, jumping to her feet. She had switched her orange flannel for one bearing the pan colors. She wasted no time in rushing up and practically scooping her up in a hug. The shock meant that it took a second before Marinette realized that Alya was apologizing into her hair. “-so sorry, I should’ve thought more about Ladybug’s feelings, I never meant to hurt her, swear-”

“It’s okay,” Marinette said, pulling away to smile at her bestie. “I know how people can get with superheroes, I think Ladybug forgives you.” She poked Alya’s nose. “Although I’m annoyed that you tried to air out my crush on Adrien to all of Paris.”

Alya sighed, nodding. “I know. Now that I think about it, it was super not cool.” She tried for a smile. “I’m sorry, girl.”

Despite herself, Marinette couldn’t stay mad. “I forgive you. But, don’t do it again.” Alya nodded and with that out of the way, she could move on. She looked around and couldn’t help but raise a brow. “But what’s going on? Why is everyone either wearing Ladybug stuff or pride stuff? If I had known, I would’ve dug my pride stuff out.”

“Oh, haven’t you checked online?” Nino called, his headphones decorated with bi stickers.

Marinette shook her head. “I’ve been too afraid to,” she admitted. “My social media has been flooded with messages and emails.”

“Oh, I can sort those for you, dudette.”

“Thank you,” she sighed, handing over her phone. “The code’s still the same.” Nino nodded as he began to fiddle with her phone.

“Anyway,” Kim said, wearing a transmac hoodie instead of his regular red hoodie. “The entire queer community adopted Ladybug as a queer icon after her interview last night. People have been debating for hours whether she’s a lesbian or bi.”

“Uh huh,” Well, at least the community was supportive. “I’m glad people are supportive.”

“Of course they are,” Alya said, leading her to their seats. “It’s Ladybug and you, the biggest sweethearts in Paris. If anyone isn’t, they look-”

“RIDICULOUS!” Chloe stormed in, wearing her normal clothing. Her gaze could’ve set Marinette on fire as she marched up and slammed her hands on her desk. On closer inspection, her eyes were rimmed red. “Break up with Ladybug.”

“Excuse me?”

“Are you deaf?!” Chloe shrieked, slamming her hand down. “Break up with Ladybug! There is only one girl that is perfect enough for her to date, and it’s certainly not you!”

“And I’m guessing that’s you?” Alya scoffed before Marinette could figure out a proper response that wasn’t not in your life. “Please, everyone knows Ladybug hates your guts.”

“She does not!” Chloe shrieked, tears beading up in the corner of her eyes. “She thinks I’m great! She chose me to be a hero! She knows I’m great! She-”

“Lost the Miraculous by accident, and you refused to give it back.” Marinette interrupted. Chloe’s jaw dropped, and she gaped at her. “Yeah, she told me about that. She thought you would do better, be better if you understood how your actions affect Paris. But you didn’t.” She leaned forward and that angry spark in her, the one that had been burning in her since Adrien pouted and moaned, burned. “Your actions are why people were celebrating that you were leaving Paris when you decided to go to New York.”

“Marinette!” Adrien called, also dressed in his normal clothes, but she held her hand out.

“You are nothing to Ladybug. Just a hazard and a safety risk.” Marinette leaned back in her chair. “The only reason I made that party for you is because Adrien asked. Nobody else.”

Chloe shut her mouth. She looked around the room. Sabrina looked away. Nobody else did, staring her down, bonded in silent agreement. Marinette expected her to rage, to scream, to throw a fit. Instead, she straightened up and walked to her seat. The moment she sat down, she hid her face.

“Marinette!” Adrien barked. “That was horrible! You-”

“Told her what Ladybug thought of her and what she needed to hear,” Marinette said, interrupting him. She leaned forward, allowing the anger brewing in her at him to burn in her eyes. “And if you don’t stop and think about your actions, so will I.”

Adrien stared with wide eyes. Without another word, but a nasty glance back, he turned and sat down. Nino scooted away from him before turning and holding up her phone. “Here, Nette,” he said. “There was some hate mail from people like Chloe,” Chloe flinched. “But a lot more of people supporting you.”

“Oh, that’s sweet,” Marinette said, taking her phone back.

The rest of the school day passed in silence. Twice, Adrien tried to get her alone, apparently undeterred by her threat, but Alya and the rest of the girl squad made sure there was a bodyguard nearby until Adrien had to leave for a photoshoot. (Rose was tiny but fierce in her desire to protect Marinette.) The rest of the school left her alone, excluding a few people who asked for her autograph and pictures and a whole bunch of gifts and letters in her locker. Marinette tried to ignore the heat in her face with all the love and care. 

Finally, the school day was over. Marinette walked out and breathed a sigh of early relief. She could see a few news vans waiting outside the bakery, so she had that to stress about, but she had gotten through the school day relatively unscathed.

The sound of a guitar met her ears and she paused, coming to a stop on the stairs.

Right. Luka.

She meant to talk to him after the interview, but Chat Noir had been following her, insisting to talk more about them, that she hadn’t been able to. So, here she was, standing on the steps, trying her best to not be seen by the musician as he strummed his guitar, probably waiting for Juleka.

It was tempting to run. But Marinette had to be braver than that. 

She took a deep breath and marched down the stairs, coming to a stop right next to him. Luka paused in his playing, staring at her. Marinette couldn’t look him in the eyes. Instead, she found herself staring at her feet. “Hi, Luka,” she said and immediately wanted to facepalm. Hi, Luka? Just that? Not, hey Luka, did you see the interview where Ladybug revealed I was two-timing you with her even though we’re the same person-

“You should’ve given me a heads up that we were poly,” Luka’s voice broke through her haze. She glanced up. Luka smiled at her, although it was edged with something. “I have a cute boy in my class, his name’s Felix, and I think you two would love each other.”

Marinette’s mind blanked, at first wondering what he was talking about, and then realization. “You…you aren’t mad?”

“I…I don’t know how to feel,” Luka admitted, and it was strange to see him admit that. Luka was the only boy she knew who was best in touch with his emotions. “On one hand, it makes a lot more sense than you pining over Adrien like everyone thought. On the other-”

“I lied,” Marinette admitted. “I lied, a lot, to you and everyone.” She gripped the edge of her shirt. “I kept ditching dates for something dumb, not related to her,” Luka raised a brow, but she continued on. “Sometimes I wished she didn’t exist because I trust you, Luka, I trust you so much but I keep having to lie because I care about her too and hurt you and and and-” Warm arms engulfed her but she couldn’t allow it, she needed to say it. “I’m so sorry, Luka.”

Luka didn’t say a word, just held her. Finally, he sighed. “I’m sorry too, Marinette,” he admitted. “I should’ve been better, maybe then-”

“No!” Marinette shoved him away. Luka stumbled back, looking hurt, but Marinette wasted no time in gripping his shoulders, staring him down. “You were wonderful,” she said, making sure he understood. “You were wonderful. I was the one who should’ve been better. I should’ve communicated better, I should’ve explained better about why I was leaving you in the lurch.”

“I was the one who got akumatized,” Luka said, staring back with wide eyes. “I went after you.”

“It was my fault you got akumatized in the first place!”

“No, it was not-” And now Luka was holding her shoulders, making sure she was looking at him. They probably looked strange, gripping each other’s shoulders like this, but Marinette didn’t care. “It was not your fault. It was Hawkmoth’s fault.” Right, right, Marinette needed to remember that. He was the one who took advantage of people. “We’re both crappy at communicating. We can work on that.”

Wait…

“You…want to try again?”

Luka paused and then nodded. “Now that I know more, enough to possibly understand some things,” He took in a deep breath. “Only if you want to?”

Marinette nodded back. “We can try,” And isn’t that what they all could do? “Maybe you can introduce me to Felix, and I can introduce you to…” She held up her hand at the sight of a familiar red car. “Hang on real quick.”

Luka blinked but nodded. Marinette smiled as they released each other before she turned and marched up to Kagami, who paused with a raised brow. Much to her delight, she wore gloves marked with the queer pride flag. “Wanna go on a date?” she asked promptly.

Kagami blinked. She opened her mouth, closed it, and then hummed. Marinette waited patiently. If Kagami had to think about it, than she was willing to wait. “Yes,” she finally said. “If your girlfriend is alright with it?”

Marinette nodded, feeling her face heat up. “Luka and I are trying again,” she admitted. “So he’s introducing a friend of his on our date. I wanted to introduce you to him, because I think you guys would be good friends, if not datemates.” She wanted to be honest where she could.

Kagami’s eyes brightened at the mention of friendship. “Then I certainly will come,” she said. “You have my number, so let me know the details.”

“I will.” She held out her hand and Kagami didn’t hesitate in giving it a squeeze. “Maybe after practice today, we can have our first date? At our usual spot?”

Kagami smiled. It was awkward, but it was sincere. “I would love that.” With one last squeeze of her hand, Kagami marched into the school.

Luka was chuckling when Marinette returned. “I guess we’ll have a full table,” he said, pulling out his phone. “I’ll talk to Felix and figure out a good time for us.”

Marinette nodded. “Let me know the details.” She paused. “And, thank you, Luka.” Before he could respond she took off running.

Lying about her girlfriend went better than expected!

[laterreurofficial]

Will the kwami be different in la terreur and how so, also why do the kwami smoke and how does it affect them.

Well, for starters, the kwamis do look a little different (as evidenced by silu's many sketches), but overall their main difference is that their attachments to their child soldiers are largely devoid of genuine affection outside of what makes their holder willing enough to actually fight.

Like, sure, they might care a little bit for these wet meat creatures that barely last a blink in a swami's lifespan, but first and foremost they are puppets for the kwami to enact their will and the mission always comes first.

The kwamis all have vices because silu and I thought it was funny. (And it's symbolic for their connection to the mortal plane. probably.)

Tikki vapes, Plagg smokes tobacco out of a pipe like a gentleman, on and on. Just imagine one of the kwamis taking a fat rip out of a bong, isn't that the funniest thing in the world to you?

If you respond with 'no', you need to reflect on yourself. Rearrange your comedic priorities.

[ilikekidsshows]

I think for me at least the difference between Adrien’s problematic behavior (harassing Ladybug even after she’s rejected him several times and even something like telling Marinette to take the high road regarding Lila which I know got him a lot of flack with the fandom) and Marinette’s behavior is that we actually see Adrien growing past said behavior. He does eventually move on from Ladybug and come to be happy being just a good friend and partner to her. (Sure it’s partly because he ‘falls’ for Marinette but we’ll not get into that here). He also realizes he was wrong about the Lila thing and actually threatens her to get her to fix what she did to Marinette in that one episode and tries to tell Alya and Nino the truth about her.

Meanwhile Marinette not only gets worse over time but the show bends over backwards to try and justify said bad behavior nor does she ever receive any real consequences for it.

For me that’s a large part of why I’m okay with Adrien’s bad behavior and not Marinette’s and I don’t think the two can really be fairly compared due to such circumstances and the way the show handled both of them.

---

Yeah, like, the writers also eventually made Cat Noir take responsibility for all of Paris thinking he and Ladybug are a couple and they made Adrien take responsibility for everything done against Lila, be it not confronting her directly or confronting her directly, since he actually makes comments on both approaches that can be taken as apologies. Adrien doesn't just apologize and “clean up his act”, he takes full responsibility over others’ similar actions as well. Even before this, though, Adrien's faults weren't treated the same as Marinette's. Whenever Ladybug told him his flirting was too much, she was presented as the one whose feelings on the matter mattered the most and Cat Noir respected her no and backed down every time. He also valued her friendship even before he stopped loving her. Meanwhile, Marinette stopping her stalking of Adrien wasn't even fully stopping and she was shown as frustrated about it while making excuses over how she was totally justified. Her feelings over the stalking were given focus, but we never learn how Adrien feels about it. She also never valued Adrien’s friendship, calling it the “worst thing ever”. The Lila thing Adrien was right about, actually, I will die on that hill. The writers can’t even remember what Adrien said about Lila, since he makes contradictory statements about her.

As you said, Marinette's behavior keeps getting worse but she keeps getting validated. Even the abuse apologia has already been validated by both Tikki and Bunnix in the London special. They treat it as a morally equal option to not doing what she did and they also shrink what Marinette did (abuse apologia) into just “not telling the truth” (they don't even call it “lying”) to make it seem even more like she hasn't done anything too bad. Alix also frames the whole thing in a way where she's only focused on consequences, saying being truthful would have also have painful consequences. They're downplaying the heck out of what Marinette's done wrong, so, when that's combined with how her other flaws are viewed as 100% okay or nonexistent, I just can't see this as an arc where Marinette learns anything, instead of it ending with Marinette crying about what a terrible person she is again while being instantly forgiven, if she gets confronted with this being a mistake at all.

So, let's compare and contrast:

Adrien makes a mistake: takes full responsibility, doesn't make excuses, focuses on the feelings of the wronged party

Marinette makes a mistake: makes excuses, screams and cries about how bad she's feeling until she gets coddled, talks over the wronged party

The writers are so consistent about ignoring anything Marinette does wrong or having her get instantly validated for her mistakes that I have no faith in her villain arc actually being anything close to one instead of of it just being a way to make Marinette the one who suffers the most from Gabriel's death and her “not telling the truth”.

[flightfoot]

Marinette is the second-biggest liar in Miraculous

Marinette's fascinating. She says she hates liars, but she will freely use lies to get things to go the way she wants - sometimes to help others, and sometimes to help herself. To the point that I'd argue Marinette's a Guile Hero, even. Outside of cases where NOT lying would have catastrophic consequences (e.g. Marinette needs to tell a lame excuse in order to go be Ladybug), she'll lie to try and avoid embarrassment or to help accomplish some goal she has.

The show doesn't often focus too heavily on the fact that Marinette's lying during these, so I feel like they're overlooked a lot, but I'd have trouble telling those lies, personally, since I really don't like lying. Something really needs to at least be true from a certain angle in order for me to feel comfortable saying it.

Anyway, I've decided to go through all the episode transcripts to document these cases in order to get a clearer picture of them, and try to figure out what it means for Marinette. I'm not going to include cases where Marinette's lying to herself, lying so that she can run off and fight the akuma, lying to try and trick an akuma into a position where they can be defeated, lying to maintain her secret identity, or things like that, though there will be some gray areas, of course.

Darkblade

While most of the time when Marinette's late to class it's due to her doing something as Ladybug (which she obviously can't tell people, so she has to lie), she'll lie even if she's late due to things she COULD explain, like when she was working on a trap for her diary and lost track of time.

(Marinette enters the classroom.) Marinette: Hi! I'm sorry! I-uh, I-uh, the bus, (Marinette starts coughing), dry throat!

The Mime

Marinette accidentally deletes the video of Ladybug talking to Alya, so instead of fessing up to the mistake, she steals Alya's phone so she can recreate the video, lying to Mylene about why she has the phone when asked.

(Marinette's phone rings.) Marinette: Hey there, Mylène! Mylène: (from phone) Do you have Alya's cellphone? Marinette: Uh, Alya's phone? Ah! There it is! It must have fallen down off her bag! Silly girl. Alya: (from phone) It's me! I'm here too. Marinette: Oh! Hi, Alya. You're on speakerphone? Hmm.. 'kay, I'll give it to you later on...at the show. See ya! (Tikki looks at her deceivingly.) Marinette: Don't look at me like that. This is all gonna work out! I think...

Marinette does fess up at the end of the episode at least, since she couldn't recreate the video.

The Collector

I'm not counting Marinette's lie that she used to return the Grimoire, since she stole it at Tikki's behest for good reason, and it was best that she not hint at the truth of how she obtained the book.

I AM counting Marinette lying to Fu though, because while I understand why she did it, telling him the truth was a viable option.

Master Fu: How did you discover this book, Marinette? Marinette: (Marinette has a flashback of Adrien with the Miraculous book.) I... uh... I found it, lying on a bench in a park close to... close to the school. Master Fu: You didn't see who it belonged to, then? Marinette: No. No, I...didn't. (Tikki looks at Marinette in a bewildered manner.) Master Fu: What a shame. For a moment, I thought we were about to discover the identity of Hawk Moth. We would've had a chance to defeat him. Marinette: Uh... I could investigate if you want.

Prime Queen

While Marinette double-booked herself as Ladybug and as Marinette and her not being able to say that she double-booked herself is partly why she was driven to lie, Marinette DID have other viable options for dealing with the situation she'd created for herself. She could have just gone to the bathroom, called either the network or Chat Noir, and said that something came up and she had to cancel. I don't know that that would have been the better option per se given how many people would have been disappointed by that, but it would certainly have been the more responsible choice.

Marinette:(Stutters) Oh, I forgot to err, tell my bakery something. They're in the parents downstairs. Do you mind keeping an eye on Manon while I'm not here? Alya: Don't you mean tell your parents something in the bakery? Marinette:(Continues stuttering.) Err, right. Well, err, sometimes, it can take a while - they don't always understand even when I explain. Err, actually, it's not their fault, they... Alya: Marinette? Marinette: Yes? Alya:Go! Marinette: Right! (Marinette then leaves with running down the stairs and starts talking to Tikki.) Alya's such a good friend, I feel so guilty for inviting her over just so I can leave her with Manon - then again, Alya is Ladybug's biggest fan - she'd be crushed if her favorite superhero didn't turn up for her favorite TV show.

Glaciator

This one's a weird example. I'm not sure why Marinette even lied about this. Maybe for privacy's sake? It's not exactly a secret that she loves Adrien though, and she's not doing it out of denial.

Marinette:(stares at the ice-cream) Uh...um. No! I- There's been a mistake! I'm not in love with anyone. And I think I just lost my appetite. (hands the ice-cream back) André: Why of course you are, my little one. When there's love burning in one's heart, André knows it from the start. Enjoy your ice-cream, Marinette. I know he'll be here. (Marinette stares at her ice-cream with a sad look on her face) Ivan: Green eyes like mint... Who could that possibly be? Marinette:(to André) Thank you, but you've got it all wrong. I don't have a- (She suddenly hear a whistle. She turns her head and sees someone walking who has the same clothing as Adrien) Adrien? (But it turns out to be Wayhem. She sighs)

...okay so this other part from Glaciator isn't a lie, but I think is something I need to note, considering some of the things Marinette does down the line.

Ladybug: Listen, I don't wanna play around with your feelings. It would be the same as lying to you. I don't wanna do that. You're more than a partner, Cat Noir. You're my friend. And I'd never wanna lie to a friend.

Like I fully believe Ladybug meant this at the time so she wasn't lying, but man this did not age well.

Troublemaker

This is another "Marinette lies to avoid embarrassment" scenario. She's not ready to confess to Adrien yet.

Marinette:(interrupting Adrien) Oh, so you watched the show, then! (laughs nervously) Well, uh, look...about what you saw on the show last night — the totographs, in my room— Adrien: You mean the photographs? Marinette:(assertively) The grotographs, exactly! (meekly) It-it's not what you think. (pauses) See...I'm really into fashion, and, umm... Adrien:(leaning forward with a piercing, impish glare) Are you lying? Marinette: No! I'm so not into you—I mean, sure, I'm interested in you, but, um, not in that way; well, you know, ha-ha-ha-ha...ha ha!

Gigantitan

Marinette does lie to Adrien about why she came to the park out of nervousness, she does this a lot.

Marinette: I came here to do some sketching! (holds out her sketch pad) I can't believe we've run into each other here! Hey, would you like to—?(She and Adrien hear his bodyguard honking the car horn impatiently) Hang pout? I mean, hang about? No, hag out? (The bodyguard groans again) Oh, forget it. (chuckles) Better not keep your guard waiting. Adrien: Uh, okay. (Marinette sighs when she realizes she still couldn't ask Adrien out. Her friends are all annoyed at her as well.) But we can take you home if you want it.

Befana

Marinette does lie to her grandma about liking her candies in order to spare her feelings, which isn't really a bad move, but it didn't turn out well either.

Marinette: No! No, it's awesome! I can make this work. It's perfect, grandma. Thank you. Gina: Your Nonna has also brought you your favourite candy! (she places a tin in Marinette's hand) Marinette: Oh! (she laughs uncertainly) Gina: You still love them, right? Marinette: Yes, yes of course...

Gorizilla

I guess this is another "lying out of embarrassment" deal, though I'm not sure why she even bothered with Alya, she's FULLY aware of how enamored Marinette is with Adrien.

Commercial voice and Marinette: Radiant. Carefree. Dreamy. Adrien... (Both Marinette and Tikki suddenly hear the phone. Marinette pauses the video to pick up when she sees that the caller ID shows Alya.) Alya: Marinette, I've been waiting for you for fifteen minutes! Where are you, girl? Marinette: Uh, I was deciding which swimsuit to wear. (chuckles) (The video from her computer starts playing again.) Commercial voice: Radiant. Carefree. Dreamy. Alya: Uh-huh. And the Adrien's ad helps you pick out a swimsuit, girl?

Style Queen

This is another case where Marinette's lying because she's nervous and scared, she doesn't want Audrey to turn on her.

Audrey: What is this? Marinette: Uh… (nervous laughter) Chloé: Uh, Mom, this is Marinette Dupain Cheng, the loser! And this is a hat she made, because she thinks she's a designer. (holds the hat upside down) She even signed it, look. Marinette: I— It's not me, it's another Marinette! I was just bringing it to, uh— Nathalie: Marinette! We have to go. (Marinette takes the hat and runs off with her face buried in the hat)

Reverser

This is another case where I'm not even sure why Marinette lied? Honestly she seems to do it instinctually when she panics. She could've told Adrien the truth about her and Marc wanting to see whether Nathaniel likes the book Marc wrote.

Marc: Do you think he likes it? Marinette: Look at his face, of course he does. Adrien: It's rude to spy on people. Marinette: Eh.. (quickly spins around) No! It's not what you think at all! It's just that... it's gonna be... eh... Nathaniel's birthday soon and, ehm, Marc and I wanted... to give him a disguise... I mean, surprise! Adrien:(not paying it) Cool! (winks) Very typical of you, Marinette. Well, if you need any help with that, let me know. Marinette: Sure won't! (higher pitched voice from embarrassment) Sure will. (slumps) Marc: You're just as shy as I am, aren't you? Marinette: Just do as I say, not as I do, okay?

Anansi

Marinette wants to make sure Nino wins the arm-wrestling competition so Nora will take him seriously, so she sabotages Nora (and uses a lie to give herself the opportunity to do so).

Nora: Really? Is that all you got? Alya: She's gonna rip his arm off. (shakes her head) Nora:(fake yawns) Marinette:(gasps) Over there, an akuma! (points past Nora) Nora:(turns her head to look where Marinette pointed) What?! (Marinette grabs Nino's and Nora's hands and pulls them towards her, so Nora loses the wrestling.) Adrien: And the winner is… Nino! Marinette:(fake sheepishly) Oops, my bad; it was just a fly.

Marinette does fess up to Nora afterwards, thankfully.

Bakerix

So here, Marinette wants to get Roland to open back up to her father, and she's pretty sure telling the truth will get her frozen out (which she is most likely right about) so she resorts to trickery.

Tikki: What are you waiting for, Marinette? Marinette: If I tell him who I am right away, he won't listen to me, just like with mom. (rings doorbell) Rolland: (through an intercom) What do you want? Marinette: Uh... I'm... a friend? Rolland: I don't have any friends. Marinette: This won't be easy. (rings doorbell) Rolland: What do you want? Marinette: Hello, sir. It's the mail lady. Rolland: Do what you usually do. Throw the mail in the trash. (Marinette looks over, sees the mailbox empties into a trashcan. She sighs, then rings the doorbell.) Rolland: What do you want? Marinette: It's for the firefighter's calendar? Rolland: Ah, doesn't need the fire. I hate calenders!

I find it interesting that Tikki actually calls Marinette out for her attempts to infiltrate, including her lying.

Tikki: You sure you should be sneaking in, lying, and pretending to be someone else? You've never met your grandfather, you don't know how he'll react! Marinette: Well, it's not exactly a lie. After all, I am actually- (loses her balance) Delivering the! All the uh! (catches herself) The flour! What really matters is that he comes to dad's birthday party, and that they both make up. (Pushes the front door open, then whispers) Hide, Tikki! (She examines the house as she walks in, noticing all the old-fashioned technology and furnishings)

And of course, she continues to lie to Roland after getting in. I'm not actually sure what her plan was here? I guess to build up some sort of rapport with him before revealing the truth.

Rolland:(startled, turns around) You're not Gilbert! Marinette: No... I'm, um, Germaine! His cousin! Rolland: Hmm. Aren't you a little young to be delivering flour? Marinette: I'm... an intern! (giggles) I'm doing a flour delivery internship, because some day I wanna own my own flour shop! Rolland:(frowns, and turns back to his dough) It's good to be ambitious. You can put the sack down now. Have a nice day. (to his mouse) Soot! (the mouse brings over a bag of soot) Marinette: So you're a baker then, huh? Rolland: Are you a flour delivery girl or a nosy detective? Go on! Put the bag down and be on your way! Marinette: That oven you have there, it's a '72 La Pegnole, Right? It's a rare woodfired model! They only made a few hundred of them! Rolland:(spins around) How did you know that? Marinette: My daddy- uh, um- My bready, bread history teacher taught us that. Rolland: Well, that's new. (incredulous) You need bread history classes to become a flour delivery person now? Marinette: You bet! You have to study for ten years to be a delivery person these days! Rolland:(throws his hands up, then returns to kneading) Good luck with your internship, Germaine. Now put the sack down and have a good day!

Weredad

I'll let Marinette's initial lie about being in love with Chat Noir slide because she panicked and only said that because she believed it was the only way to conceal her secret identity, though there were better options, she just didn't think of them.

I AM counting the way she reacted to Chat gently turning her down though, she had time to think that one through and she went way overboard.

Cat Noir: Anyway, I'm afraid my heart belongs to someone else. (Marinette looks up) Even if she keeps rejecting me. (She looks towards Cat Noir) Even if she loves somebody else. I'm in love with Ladybug. (to Marinette) I'm really sorry, Marinette. (Her parents recoil in shock.) Marinette: (excitedly) Oh, this is so— (She remembers she's supposed to be heartbroken.) Uh… (She looks at her parents.) So sad! (grabbing Cat Noir, dramatically) Oh, to think I spent all this time following you everywhere to tell you that I loved you Cat Noir! (cries) I am so miserable! (weeps on table) No one will ever love me! (Her father looks sad and concerned) (into her hands) I'll end up all alone with my hamster, (running to the stairs) and its name will be (inhales) Loneliness!! (She slams the door and continues crying)

Marinette: (singing) La, la, la, la, la! Ah, such a relief, Tikki. Phew! He's not in love with me. (Tikki looks disappointed)

She really didn't think through how her overreaction here would make Chat feel at all, or how it might cause her parents to act towards Chat.

Silencer

For Silencer, I think Marinette lied here because she didn't want to bring up what seemed to be a love confession that he might not have truly meant as himself. I do still think she should have told him since he directly asked her what he said and because what he said still affects her behavior towards him, so he deserves to know, but I see why she didn't at least.

Marinette: (grabs ahold of Luka before he goes onstage) Luka? Did you really mean those things you said when you were akumatized? Luka: I'm sorry, Marinette, but I don't remember. What did I say? Marinette: Uh, oh, nothing. It was nothing at all. You were possessed by Hawk Moth's akuma.

Christmaster

So this is another "lie Marinette's telling out of embarrassment", though it's also a kind-of pretend-lie, like when Alya claimed to Manon that she was secretly a unicorn. With little kids the line between lying and playing pretend gets blurry at times.

Marinette:(thinking) Uh, look I can't tell you that these are the gifts I've made for Adrien's next 35 birthdays. Cause you'd tell your brother Nino and he'd tell Adrien and Adrien'd think that I'm totally crazy! Wait, maybe I am. (To Chris) Hmm. I can't tell you I'm one of Santa Claus's elves on a secret mission and that I'm looking after one of his boxes of gifts. You wouldn't be interested though; because gifts are for babies, right? And you're a big kid. Chris: That's a lie! Marinette: What, that you're a big kid? Chris: No, that you're one of Santa Claus's elves! Marinette: I can't say anything more.

I do find it interesting that Tikki called her out on it though.

Tikki: A Christmas elf on a secret mission, seriously, Marinette, don't you think you went too far this time? Marinette: I know, Tikki, it was pure ridiculousness. But I couldn't tell him the truth about the gifts. Besides, I simply told Chris a nice little story, which hopefully will teach him some patience. (She picks up the felt dolls and walks to her desk. Tikki looks unsure.) Speaking of patience, I've got an idea of what I can give Adrien for his 50th birthday! Give me a hand?

There's also some follow-up with Chris at the end of the episode.

Marinette: Sure will! It'll be awesome. We're really good buddies. (Alya closes the door) I know I shouldn't have told you that I was one of Santa's elves. But you were acting like— Chris: A baby, I know. Mommy says lying is wrong. So from now on, we'll always tell each other the truth, okay? (He puts out his pinky)

Ikari Gozen

Most of Marinette's nonessential lies are white lies because she's nervous or embarrassed or she thinks it'll help the situation.

What she does in Ikari Gozen is not that. While I don't think she was actively thinking in terms of "I want to hurt Kagami," that was mostly because she wasn't thinking of Kagami as being an actual person with feelings that could be hurt. It's amongst the worst things Marinette has ever done, though she DID at least realize she was being an ass by the end and tried to make it up to Kagami.

Tikki: Marinette, this isn't fair to Kagami. If you won't be her friend, she won't be able to play. Marinette: Yeah, right. She's so smart, I'm sure she'd figure a way around it. Probably even do it twice as fast by herself. In fact, I bet I'd just slow her down if I went. (gasps) Of course! You're right, Tikki! If I stick with her, I can make us lose. And then Adrien would never see Kagami win and they'll never fall in love. Tikki: Uh, come to think of it, perhaps it would be better for you not to go. Marinette: Hide, Tikki! The game is on! (runs over to Kagami) Kagami! Woah! This must be fate! I mean, what were the odds of you and I being paired up? One in ten million at least. Right? So awesome! (chuckles) Kagami: You didn't look too happy about being my secret friend, though. I saw you turn around and walk away just now. Marinette: (her eyes twitch) I-I actually thought I'd, um, gotten the place wrong. I totally hadn't seen you yet. No way! Really, I'm super excited to play the game with you. (smiles nervously)

Party Crasher

So Marinette didn't feel like telling the other girls the truth about wanting to investigate what all the boys were doing.

Marinette: (senses something is wrong, gasps) Oh! Uh... speaking of excuses, I- I- forgot that I was supposed to help my... grandpa bake a cake for one of his mouse's birthday today. Sorry, Mylène. Catch you later, girls! (takes off) Alya: Did I miss something, or is it bad excuses world championship today?

Tikki actually asked Marinette about it later on. Turns out she lied in order to spare Mylene's feelings.

Tikki: Marinette, this isn’t the way to the bakery. Marinette: No, Tikki, I just said that so I could lead my investigation undisturbed. Tikki: You lied to your friends...? Marinette: I didn’t want to upset Mylène. It was her idea to plant the trees this afternoon. But something totally fishy’s going on. All the boys are unavailable with really lame excuses, and trust me, I know a lame excuse when I hear them. I’ve turned into an expert at them since I became... you-know-who. (winks) I know, I’m gonna call Ivan. He can’t lie to save his life. If there’s something secret going on, he’ll definitely blab.

Marinette comes up with a plan that involves more lying, which again, Tikki calls her out on.

Marinette: All the guys are together at Adrien’s place, so why can’t I be there too? I’ll just pretend I was passing by and, uh... Tikki: Yet another lie? Marinette: Just a half truth.

Marinette's not allowed in since it's boys-only, so she disguises herself and lies in order to crash the party.

Marinette: (in a fake accent) Hi there! It's a-me: Marino! Your neighbor! I heard there was a party going on here, a guy's-only, so I'd like to come-a too, because, uh, I'm a guy. Heh! In fact, it's hard for me to walk with all these guy muscles of mine. Hehe! (The gate opens. She cheers in her normal voice) Aha! (goes back to her fake accent) I mean, hoo hoo! (walks inside and into Adrien's room)

Marinette, as well as Nino, both admit that they weren't exactly honest this episode.

Nino: (to Marinette) Things would probably have gone differently if I hadn't lied. Marinette: I wasn't completely honest today either, but... Nino & Marinette: ...I did it for Adrien. (laugh) Marinette: If we hurry up, we can still plant trees with the girls.

The Puppeteer 2

So this is another case of "lying to avoid embarrassment".

Manon: Really? But I thought you and Marinette were boyfriend and girlfriend. (Marinette squeaks) She has lots of photos of you all over her bedroom. Adrien: (laughs) That's because she loves fashion and I'm a fashion model. Manon: But then why are there so many hearts drawn on them? Marinette: (laughs nervously) Those aren't heart! Those are, uh, upside-down spades! I was just coming up with some new, uh, patterns, for my fabric designs. (covers Manon's ears and leans towards Alya with clenched teeth) You told me you wouldn't tell Nino!

Ah, the honesty of little kids, always making things difficult.

Adrien: Were you serious when you were talking to the statue? I mean... me as a statue? Marinette: Serious? Me? (fake laughs) You gotta be kidding! I'm the queen of pranks! (fake laughs) I knew you were playing a prank on me, so I just wanted to get you back! Gotcha!(laughs forcefully) Adrien:(slowly) So you didn't really mean all the things you just said? Marinette: Of course not, I was role playing! I was in love with a statue, not with you! (stands) If I'd feel anything for you, it wouldn't be like for that statue, rather like, for a... regular human being! (fake laughs)

Again, more lying to avoid embarrassment.

Shanghai Special

So here, she's lying about wanting to reconnect with her roots because she thinks her parents will think it's lame/creepy for her to want to fly halfway around the world to follow Adrien. Though she does genuinely end up connecting with her roots and enjoying her time with her great-uncle.

Marinette: (enters) Mom! Sabine: (turns to her) The package! It'll never make it in time! Marinette: Yes it will, because I'm gonna hand it to uncle Wang myself. (Tom and Sabine look perplexed.) You see, because it's high time I visit my uncle in person! Because my uncle- (trips over the package and gets up.) It's my roots. And I've been trying to connect to Adri- I mean, my roots - for so long! And he keeps- I mean, they - keep eluding me. (Tom and Sabine look at each other) And without him- I mean them - without my roots- I mean, I feel incomplete! (She covers her face with her hands and peeks from between her fingers.) Sabine: Marinette, are you saying that... you want to go to Shanghai?!

Truth

Obviously Marinette lies a lot in this episode for secret identity reasons, but she also just does it out of embarrassment.

Luka: Thanks for the photos of your bedroom (Marinette checks phone and discovers the accidentally-sent pictures by Ziggy) and of Adrien. Marinette: Ah, my room! Yeah, I- uh- it's full of photos of Adrien because I uh... I'm using them for fashion pics for my blog and I need your opinion on them because I know you have great taste, Adrien. Luka: My name is Luka. Marinette: Haha yes of course, Adrie- I mean, Luka. You're Luka, obviously, hehe, because you're you, and I am me, Marinette. Hehe, uh, I'm so sorry, it's just that I've been so busted- uh I mean, busy!

Gang of Secrets

I'm not gonna list every instance here, but Marinette's pretending to be okay to the point that it goes beyond "lying to herself" and more to "is afraid to let anyone in and is lying because she's scared."

Marinette:(crying) Alya: Marinette? Have you been crying? Marinette:(whilst faking the emotion) Me? Crying? Are you kidding? I'm super happy! Let's celebrate and have a party! I'm so happy!

Crocoduel

So this is a case of Marinette lying because she's panicking and wanting to get out of the situation she's in. She asked Juleka to somehow disinvite her own brother from their shared birthday, assumed that she had managed to do it, and when she showed up and found that Luka was there, she flailed. She claims to Alya that she doesn't want to talk to Luka because she's afraid he'll get akumatized if he hangs around her and they're not dating, with knowing that she broke his heart, but honestly it mostly seems to be because SHE can't handle being around him, knowing she broke his heart. Luka's handling the situation just fine.

Luka: Hey, Marinette! Marinette: (panics and runs away) Excuse me! Sorry! I've got something to do! It's super urgent! Yep! Bye! (falls on the stairs that leads below the deck) I'm okay!

Ephemeral

This is another case where I think Ladybug REALLY screwed up. She's not telling a malicious lie per se, but she's trampling all over Chat Noir's agency with nary a thought to whether he has the right to decide things ABOUT himself FOR himself, since she's afraid he'll make the "wrong" choice. Honestly I think this IS probably the worst thing she's done to date, even the Big Lie she tells in season 5 is more understandable in my opinion.

Cat Noir: Oh, yeah! So then, why did you need me exactly? Ladybug: Well... actually, it's kind of linked to what happened today. I've given it a lot of thought ever since I became guardian, you know? (leans on the fence) And, I've realized that... you were right after all. (turns to Cat Noir) We should tell each other our secret identities. Cat Noir: But, aren't the secrets supposed to protect us? Ladybug: I thought so. But when you didn't show up today, I didn't know how to locate you because we can't communicate when we're not transformed. If something bad happened to one of us when we're not heroes, we could know about it. It would make us stronger. We'd be able to defeat Shadow Moth quicker! Cat Noir: (walks towards Ladybug's side) So, we're doing this, for real? Ladybug: Yes. Cat Noir: Wow. Okay. You go ahead, m'lady. Guardians first! Ladybug: No, you first. Cat Noir: Let's do it together. (Viperion listens to their conversation while he's in the sewers.) Ladybug: No, I mean it. You go first. I'm... feeling kind of... awkward.

I know Ladybug actually going through with this plan was overwritten in the new timeline, but this WAS still her plan, she just got interrupted before she could put it into effect, so I still count it against her. It was really screwed up how easily she was able to lie to Chat here while appearing totally sincere.

Strikeback

Ladybug briefly tries to pretend that she misspoke and has no idea what Chat's talking about when he catches her talking to Rena Furtive, but she sees that he's not buying it and fesses up. She really doesn't directly lie about someone knowing her identity, Alya helping them out secretly, etc, during season 4, but she definitely keeps it secret when she shouldn't have.

Ladybug: Nice one, Rena. Cat Noir: (surprised) Huh? Rena Rouge? Where is she? Ladybug: Uh... Rena who? (Cat Noir squints in annoyance.) Ladybug: Fine, she's hidden. It's best you don't know where, it's too—

Destruction

Alya's trying to get Marinette to stop spiralling and watching news footage about Monarch, but Marinette's doing so anyway and lying about it so that Alya doesn't lecture her.

Alya: (in the video blog) Now that Shadow Moth stole almost every Miraculous and told us people to call him Monarch, with all these powers, what is he planning? (The real Alya enters the room's trapdoor, much to Marinette's panic.) Alya: Marinette, what did we say? Marinette: (pauses the video, stuttering) Th-The video launched itself! Alya: (sarcastically) Of course, it did. (goes back to her normal tone) Hey, you want some fruit with your tea?

Elation

So this one is a combination of Ladybug lying to try and get what she wants and her lying to try and make her behavior look normal.

Ladybug: Let’s at least kiss before we say goodbye! (kisses Cat Noir on both cheeks) Cat Noir: (steps backward, causing Ladybug to fumble on her feet) What are you doing? Ladybug: I always kiss four times. Come to think of it, actually, four is a little stingy. How about eight? Cat Noir: (steps away) I know what you’re trying to do and it’s not gonna work, m’lady. We’re partners and friends. Ladybug: Wait, what's up with you? You have a new girlfriend or something? Cat Noir: (gasps and laughs) You’re testing me! Could I tell you if I had a girlfriend. No, because the less we know about each other, the harder it is for Monarch to win. So, did I pass the test? Ladybug: (dejected) With flying colors.

Derision

Here she lies to avoid going to school, since Chloe's set on making her life miserable. I don't blame her, honestly.

Sabine: Aren't you eating, sweetie? Marinette: I have a tummy ache. Can't I stay home today? Sabine: Hmm... Yesterday, your foot hurt, and the day before that, it was your head. Come on, chin up. You only have two weeks of school left with her. She probably won't even be in your class next year. Marinette: Three years in a row, Mom. Why would my luck change now? (stands up from the table and bumps her cereal bowl, spilling milk on the table, her clumsiness thriving yet again, to which Sabine simply smiles)

Emotion

I'm not sure even Marinette totally understood why she so desperately wanted to crash the party in this episode, her explanation to Tikki didn't really make sense to me. She wanted to support him and let him know that not telling her was alright or something?

Chloé: (upon seeing Marinette and scrutinizes her) Oh! You're new! What's your name? Marinette: Uh- Zoé! My name's Zoé! Chloé: Yyyuck! Just like my half-of-a-sister. But at least you have style! How rich are your parents? Rich? Very rich? Immensely rich? Of course, otherwise you wouldn't be here! (grabs Marinette's hand and pulls her along across the dance floor) It's too bad we can't bring out underlings with us. I'm sure these tin cans can serve properly but we can't make fun of them! (grabs a drink from a Tsurugi robot and kicks it) So lame! What's your underling's name? Marinette: Um- Chloé. Her name is Chloé.

Conformation

Here, Marinette lies about wanting to check on Adrien. I'm not entirely sure why? Like, does she think her parents might try to stop her...? I think is one of her "panic-lies", where she lies instinctually when scared even when there's really no good reason to do so.

Marinette:(Runs downstairs and passes by her parents watching TV on the way.) I have an errand to do. See you later! Tom:(Blocks the door.) A-Aren't you going to eat something before you leave? Marinette: I'm not feeling very hungry, dad. Sabine:(Puts her hand on her husband's shoulder.) It's understandable that Marinette would have a poor appetite after Adrien's departure. Tom: But breakfast is the most important meal of the day! (Pulls out an enormous bag filled with croissants.) Marinette: Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, don't worry, I– (Experiences another flash of pain and grabs her head.) (Tom and Sabine look at their daughter with concern.) Marinette: This has... nothing to do with Adrien. I'm fine! I promise. Besides, he's just in London, he's probably doing great, there's no reason to worry. I was just heading out to meet up with my friends. (Takes the bag of croissants from her dad.) And that mountain of croissants comes at a perfect time. Love you both! (Walks out.) (Marinette's parents follow her outside and watch as she leaves from the top of the staircase.)

Re-Creation

This is the biggest lie Marinette's ever told, one that's likely to reverberate through the series for seasons to come. Lying about not knowing who Monarch is and about Gabriel being a hero. Marinette didn't lie all that often during season 5, but she did tell the biggest lie of all.

Marinette: You're not wearing it? Adrien: (while fidgeting with the rings) When Ladybug gave it to me, she told me how my father helped her to defeat Monarch, at the cost of his life. I don't know if I'll ever manage to be like him.

Action

Here, the class decides that they need to lie to gain an audience with the plastic guy. Marinette is there spokesperson, which makes sense since with Lila gone, she is by far the most experienced and accomplished liar in the class.

Marinette: Yes, it is him! Adrien Agreste in the flesh! (gestures to Adrien as he smiles) Amazing, right? (as Nino breaths a sigh of relief) And as it turns out, we're escorting him, all of us, to his meeting with Mr. Bertrand King. Adrien: Right, that's it. I'm uh...(looks towards Marinette for help) Marinette: Here to discuss new advertising campaigns for the Morpho fans. Adrien: Right. Marinette: We're his personal team of... (coming up with an excuse) ...delivery and cleaning people. (the Guard just stares. He then takes a look at Kim, Max, Adrien who smiles with Marinette, Alya, Ivan and Mylène.)

So some surprising results from this. Marinette barely lies in season 1, but she does so quite a bit in the following seasons, especially season 2. I didn't realize before that Marinette has this tendency to lie instinctually when she's panicking, even if she doesn't actually need to, it seems like it's become a defense mechanism for her.

Marinette's definitely a Guile Hero who can and will lie when convenient, sometimes out of embarrassment, sometimes because she's scared, sometimes to attempt to spare someone's feelings, sometimes to try and gain control of a situation, and sometimes just to get what she wants. Most of them aren't *bad* lies really, but she's definitely not the super honest person she sometimes gets painted as, both in the show (by Adrien, which makes sense, he thinks highly of her) and by the fandom. She may hate liars, but that doesn't mean she won't use it as a tool when she thinks she needs it.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

IOTA Reviews: Emotion

Hey, remember Felix? You know, that minor character who is the entire reason Gabriel has all of Ladybug's other Miraculous? The writers remembered he existed more than halfway through the season.

Let's get into the eighteenth episode of Miraculous Ladybug's fifth season: Emotion

We start off with Marinette and Adrien getting ice cream, and just like last episode, right when they're about to kiss, Adrien stops at the last second. While we don't see it, it's heavily implied that Gabriel is behind this. It turns out that Adrien has to get ready for some dance for rich people. While it has a name and I think it was mentioned in a few earlier episodes this season, it's really just some dance for rich people, so I don't care enough to remember it. Of course, all of the rich characters we know are invited, like Kagami, Chloe, Zoe, and Prince Ali. Lila, on the other hand, wasn't invited. This might sound important, but nothing happens with her until the end.

Zoe isn't going because of the “character development” she's gotten, so she offers to let Marinette wear her dress to the dance, which just so happens to be a masquerade ball. Tikki asks why Marinette even wants to go to this party she wasn't invited to, but all Marinette says is that it's so she can tell Adrien that she didn't have to keep the dance a secret from her. Why didn't Marinette just call Adrien? Because then we wouldn't have a story.

At the ball, Adrien and Kagami are the king and queen or whatever because their parents are really determined to make their ship sail even though the two show no real interest in each other (insert your own joke about the writers here), but they're interrupted by Amelie, Emilie's twin sister and Felix's mom. She's worried because her son has been missing for weeks, but Gabriel couldn't care less about the little twerp.

At the party, we get a somewhat amusing joke where Chloe fails to recognize Marinette under her mask, where Marinette not only says her name is Zoe, but her “underling” is named Chloe too. But speaking of...

Chloe: How rich are your parents? Rich? Very rich? Immensely rich? Of course, otherwise you wouldn't be here! It's too bad we can't bring out underlings with us. I'm sure these tin cans can serve properly but we can't make fun of them! (grabs a drink from a butler robot before kicking it) So lame!

Okay, did the writers just stop caring about writing convincing dialogue for Chloe? This is a problem I've noticed a lot this season. Yeah, Chloe was bad in the last four seasons, but here, she constantly talks about how Sabrina is her “underling” (Passion), or how she finds Marinete's suffering to be amusing (Derision). It's not really out of character, but it's weird how she's so much more blunt when it comes to boasting about how full of herself she is. It feels like a lot of her lines this season were meant to be placeholders for stuff the writers thought they'd change later, but then they decided to keep it in anyway. And of course to show how stuck up the other rich kids saying the same kind of stuff Chloe normally says, which is somehow less subtle social commentary than Hop Pop shouting “EAT THE RICH!”.

Adrien and Kagami talk about how they're expected to follow orders, while pretty much saying that Kagami is a Sentimonster since the camera really wants to show off her ring.

Oh wow. what does this mean? Wow, this is such a compelling mystery with so many twists and turns. I am so very invested right now.

However, as the two talk, it's clear that Adrien isn't himself, literally.

“Adrien”: Let's leave, I dare you.

Kagami: Are you insane? We can't do that.

“Adrien”: Of course, we can. I can.

Kagami: (gasps) You'd do that?

“Adrien”: Wanna bet?

Kagami: No, we can't.

“Adrien”: See? You're not as free as you claim. Don't you think we should be able to decide our future?

I'll get back to this later.

Marinette tells “Adrien” that she loves her, but Chloe figures out that Marinette crashed a party she wasn't invited to. Of course, because this is Chloe, we're supposed to ignore how unnecessary this plan was for Marinette. Seriously, Marinette crashing the party in “Gabriel Agreste”, as illogical as it was, made sense, because they needed to stop Chloe from showing Gabriel incriminating footage of Marinette. Here, Marinette had no real reason to crash this party when all she had to do was call Adrien, and Chloe, like her or hate her, makes a good point in that she wasn't invited. But again, since this is Season 5 Chloe, she could say she opposes human trafficking, and the writers would still find a way to make her look like the bad guy.

Chloe tells the other rich kids to help her expose Marinette, but because they're so stuck up and entitled, they refuse to touch her. I'll give you all a moment to groan from that unfunny joke. Then we get this conversation between Marinette and “Adrien”.

“Adrien”: All eyes are on you.

Marinette: They're looking at me like I'm a monster.

“Adrien”: Look closer, Marinette. (whispers into her ear) They're the monsters.

I officially take back everything bad I ever said about the Canto Bight scenes from The Last Jedi.

While I get what the episode's going for, we really haven't seen a lot of the 1% doing things that would actually warrant this level of scorn from the audience. Yeah, most of them were egotistical snobs, especially Chloe, but you can't really see this as a shot at the elite when it's aimed at their children instead of their parents. All we've seen in this episode is the rich kids being jerks (and even then, it's played for laughs), Chloe rightfully trying to get Marinette thrown out of a party she had no reason to crash, and Gabriel and Tomoe trying to pair their children together. If you want to show the audience how bad rich people are, you need to show them actually abusing their power and mistreating others. As bad as the aforementioned Canto Bight scenes were, they still worked because it managed to back up the point it was trying to make.

Compare this to characters like the Ferengi from Star Trek or the World Nobles from One Piece. These are allegories for the 1% that work because they do a better job at exaggerating aspects of them that can translate to how we see the elite in our world. With the Ferengi, they represent everything wrong with cutthroat businessmen who base their entire society over financial gains, and with the World Nobles, they represent the disconnect with the common people by being so arrogant, they wear helmets that prevent them from breathing the same air as the commoners. If you wanted to show how bad the rich were, especially considering what's going to happen in a few minutes, you needed to do more to make the audience not like them so we'd be more happy to see them get their comeuppance.

Marinette figures out that Felix impersonated Adrien once again (it honestly stops being impressive when he's done it during literally every episode he appears in), and he decides to transform using the Peacock Miraculous in public for some reason, calling himself Argos.

Argos' design is okay. The suit and coattails look pretty nice, and the coloring on his face works a lot better than Gabriel's. The only problem I have is the way the hood looks. It looks too goofy to go with the rest of the suit. It kind of reminds me of that salmon suit Squidward wore in that one episode of SpongeBob SquarePants.

Before anyone else at the party can do anything, Argos reveals a Sentimonster he created, Red Moon.

Red Moon is... a red moon. It's just a red moon that floats above the city, and it gives Argos the ability to make anyone bathed in its light disappear with a snap of his fingers. If anything, this shows how overpowered the Peacock Miraculous is, and that Gabriel was a real idiot for not trying anything like this while he was Shadowmoth.

Anyway, after making everyone think his cousin is a supervillain as part of his brilliant plan, Argos decides to tell everyone in the room about what his Sentimonster can do. He demonstrates this by, of course, choosing to snap away Chloe before targeting Gabriel and Tomoe. You really have your priorities straight, buddy. Argos then carries Marinette outside before throwing her in a dumpster, because if he snapped her away, than Ladybug couldn't fight him.

But then Argos decides to go to the streets, and decides to snap away a bunch of innocent civilians... while singing a jazz song. To anyone curious as to what it sounds like, I must warn you, it isn't for the feint of heart.

I take back everything bad I ever said about the Hawkmoth rap.

First off, I'm just going to say it, Bryce Papenbrook cannot sing. Argos is clearly trying to sound like a suave and confident villain like Doctor Facilier from The Princess and the Frog, but his delivery is terrible. It either ranges from flat monotone to trying to shout while dealing with a sore throat. The point I'm trying to make is that there was a good reason someone else did the singing voice for Adrien in the recent movie.

Second, this doesn't do anything to make us root for Argos as a character, because there's no reason for him to be doing this. I can understand why he'd use his power to get rid of Gabriel and Tomoe (even Chloe, given we know how much she's done), but why is he suddenly going nuts snapping a bunch of random people who haven't even met him before? The episode tries to make him a character who only does bad things because he has no choice to, so him doing this to a bunch of innocent civilians makes no sense.

Finally, WHY THE HELL IS THIS SCENE A MUSICAL NUMBER?! It's hard enough to see Argos callously wipe out a bunch of bystanders, essentially committing genocide, but the tone of the song is all upbeat and cheery, while the lyrics are about how Argos should get whatever he wants. What is the purpose of adding a song here? Are we supposed to find this funny? Is it meant to establish Felix as a wild card? Is the song supposed to make us like him more because of how catchy it is? What was the writers' endgame here? Like I mentioned earlier, this flies in the face of the characterization the episode is trying to establish for him.

Marinette transforms into Ladybug and arrives on the scene, confronting Argos over what he did last season.

Ladybug: You're the reason why I lost the other Miraculous in the first place! And why he took them! You gave them to him without any regard for the consequences it might have with the people of Paris!

Argos: True, except I work for no one. I only helped Monarch cause it served my plans! I needed the Peacock Miraculous and today I need yours and Cat Noir's so I can make my wish!

Ladybug: Your wish?! What do you want?! What are you trying to do?! You're destroying the world and we don't even know why!

Argos: When I merge your Miraculous together, I'll make a wish to create a better world! A free world, where no one will be under anyone's control anymore, where no one will be excluded like I was! A world without people like you to decide what's right or wrong! Who gets powers and who doesn't!

Dude, you're literally playing God right now by snapping away people who did nothing wrong, while singing a song at that. You have no right to lecture Ladybug on how to use power responsibly. And once again, even though we just saw him happily snapping people out of existence like the kid from that one Twilight Zone episode, the episode is going back to portraying him as someone who's only doing this because he has nothing to lose.

Ladybug tries to use her Lucky Charm, but gets nothing in response. This is because her plan is to get Argos to give up, but even in episodes where her plan was to get Akumas to give up, she still got her Lucky Charm (Rocketear, Qilin, Penalteam, Reunion, Perfection, Intuition), so this doesn't really make any sense. Ladybug calls Argos' bluff, so he wipes out everyone from existence. After running into Kagami and snapping Adrien back into existence, Argos is surprised that they aren't thanking him for wiping out all of humanity, and in fact, see him as a complete psychopath.

We then learn Felix's true plan. Earlier that day, Argos capitalized on a opening he had been hoping he would get for weeks, and then created Red Moon. Right after Adrien's date with Marinette, Argos ambushed Adrien, and snapped him out of existence with Red Moon's power. He then decided to impersonate Adrien so he could infiltrate the dance and snap Gabriel, Tomoe, and everyone else out of existence.

I think my feelings on this plan can be perfectly summarized by Tony Stark.

First off, why did he need to sneak into the dance? All Felix had to do was transform into Argos, and nobody would know who he really was.

Second, why did he need to impersonate Adrien? Felix claims he's doing this for him, yet all he did was steal his girlfriend and ruin his public reputation. As a matter of fact, why did he even snap Adrien away? You're already wiping out all of humanity, so I don't think temporarily doing the same to Adrien will earn you any goodwill.

Third, why did he waste so much time screwing around with Marinette and Kagami? I sort of get why he would try to get in Kagami's good graces (keyword being “try”) by trying to convince her to rebel against her mother more, but why did he dance around with Marinette while pretending to be Adrien? Felix later says he wanted to spare Marinette for Adrien's sake, but he barely knows her, and whether she finds out Felix impersonated her boyfriend or not, she's going to be pissed at either you or Adrien because of your galavanting. In fact, I don't think he ever told Adrien that he danced with Marinette while at the dance in the first place.

Finally, he really needed to wait for this for weeks? If your goal was to get rid of Gabriel and Tomoe, why didn't you just ambush them yourself instead of waiting for a public function? This isn't like has last few appearances where he needed to rely on his intellect. He has superpowers now. All he has to do is create another Sentibug or some kind of assassin Sentimonster and he can be rid of them easily. Instead, he waited weeks for a chance to steal his cousin's identity, dance with his girlfriend, talk trash about Kagami for listening to her mother when he's supposed to be helping her and Adrien, blow his cover in a crowded area by transforming, and use his killer moon to erase all of humanity from existence while singing. Remember, this is the show that usually makes jokes about Marinette's obsession with unnecessarily complicated plans.

Anyway, Argos tries to use his powers to bring Marinette back, but for some reason, they won't work. My best guess is that it's because Marinette transformed into Ladybug, but that shouldn't chance the fact that Argos snapped her with Red Moon's power. After trying to justify his genocide by saying he never wanted to hurt Adrien and Kagami, Argos remembers how his powers work and brings everyone back. After Ladybug lets him go scot-free, Argos goes to a private place realizes that he may have made a few mistakes for almost wiping out all of humanity, tearfully snapping Red Moon out of existence, calling it “his sister”. Because I guess we were supposed to emotionally connect to the giant moon that showed little to no signs of sentience this entire episode? Argos transforms back to Felix, and we learn that Amelie knew where he was the whole time, and she was apparently testing Gabriel for some reason.

After Adrien explains to Marinette that his father ordered him to not tell her about the dance, Adrien goes to talk to Gabriel about it. Gabriel, being Gabriel uses his control over Adrien to force him to never talk about Marinette again. Gabriel then gets a call from Lila, and even though she's been nothing but helpful to him since Season 3, he's apparently tired with her. Why is he suddenly rejecting the help of his most competent (by comparison) ally?

Also, the episode ends with the revelation that Lila somehow knows Gabriel is Monarch. Why? How? I DON'T CARE, BECAUSE THIS EPISODE SUCKS!

Oh my God, this episode was just terrible! “Derision” and “Adoration” definitely got to me with the way their stories were handled, but this was the first episode in a while to really piss me off. The plot was contrived as hell, basically being a repeat of “Gabriel Agreste”, and you all know how I wasn't exactly a fan of that episode. Think about it: Marinette sneaks into a party, Felix tries to scheme against Gabriel, and Marinette and Adrien end up getting caught in one of his schemes.

The social commentary about how bad the rich were just felt more pretensions than anything else. I get that it's meant to teach children a lesson about the real world, but the episode feels so confident in what its trying to say when it's not that deep, even by kids' show standards. Rich people are bad? Yeah, I think someone like me who lives in the same country as Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Mark Zuckerberg knows that. Will you actually teach kids about the financial conditions that allow the wealthy to abuse their power or the cutthroat methods they'll resort to in order to turn a profit? No? You're just going to tell kids that rich people are jerks without giving any actual evidence in the same episode you're using to try and to teach them? Man, these writers just keep hitting it out of the park here!

This whole “Rich people suck” message also falls flat because Felix is the one pushing it. You know, someone who already comes from a rich family? It's not like Bruce Wayne where he uses his money to help the people of Gotham, as Batman or not. Felix just whines about how “tHeY'rE tHe MoNsTeRs.” when he's just as well-off as they are. The episode tries to do a subtle discrimination message as evidenced by his rant as Argos earlier, but it doesn't work because we have never seen anyone discriminate against Felix for who he is. Yeah, the episode once again tries to hint at him being a Sentimonster, but because the show hasn't just pulled the trigger and confirmed it, it's hard to really sympathize with him being “excluded” when we've never seen him being treated differently by others in earlier episodes, and even if he was a Sentimonster, nobody would know or be able to discriminate against him in the first place.

I don't know why the show keeps trying to excuse Felix's actions when once again, he pretty much committed fucking genocide yet the episode still wanted us to feel bad for him realizing his actions had consequences. If he actually wanted to own up to his mistakes, he'd either hand over the Peacock Miraculous to Ladybug or help Ladybug stop Monarch. For someone who claims he hates when people abuse power to make others suffer, he's no better, judging from how both times he's gotten to use a Miraculous, he's either screwed over Ladybug (Strikeback) or endangered a lot of innocent people. And if you're wondering why I didn't point out any double standards between the treatment of Felix compared to Chloe, that doesn't really matter. No matter how you feel about Chloe, whether you feel like she got screwed over or not, it doesn't really make how the writers are glorifying Felix any better or worse, as his potential “redemption arc” isn't off to a good start.

The plot was stupid, Felix was an idiot, and it felt like more effort was put into the musical number than the writing. In my opinion, this is easily the worst episode of the season so far.

Although at the very least, now that we have even more evidence that Adrien, Felix, and even Kagami are all Sentimonsters, I think I know what clip I can start using to describe my feelings on this plotline.

THE BIGGEST IDIOT OF THE EPISODE IS... FELIX

For someone who managed to outsmart Gabriel on multiple occasions with no superpowers, Felix's intelligence really took a nosedive the second he got the Peacock Miraculous. He came up with a completely unnecessary plan that involved impersonating his cousin's identity and mocking his friend when he's supposed to try and win their favor, he danced with his cousin's girlfriend without his consent, transformed in public, smearing his reputation even further, and proceeded to gleefully wipe out humanity through a musical number, and needed other people to point out how immoral his actions were. Of course, Marinette gets second place thanks to her plan to break into the party and later letting Argos get away.

[ponytailzuko]

my miraculous "enemies" au

i wanted to post something to give context to art i post so here it is! i think you can consider this my "miraculous rewrite" if you want to call it that...? but its just me wanting everyone trying to steal each others miraculous. that's literally it. i love drama. details under the cut:

The Premise:

When Fu was a child training with the Order, they left him to guard a Miracle Box for as long as possible without food or water. Eventually, Fu got curious - he opened the box and a beautiful array of animals spilled out. Tikki and Plagg act like the angel and devil on Fu's shoulder: Plagg, along with many of the other kwamis, urge Fu to use his Miraculous to transform in order to get food from the kitchens. Tikki warns him otherwise, but Fu transforms with the Peacock and the Black Cat, and the destructive power of his emotions go on a rampage, destroying the Order.

In the destruction, Fu loses most of the miraculous and the grimoire. They're scattered all across the world, falling into different people's hands. Tikki vows to help Fu rectify his mistake of trusting Plagg and help recover the lost miraculous.

What Does This Change?

Miraculouses and grimoire pages are spread around the world, so magic is pretty commonplace. Superheroes and supervillains have existed in Paris before "canon."

Adrien finds the Black Cat independently from the Guardian. He makes a deal with Plagg - freedom for freedom. Plagg gives Adrien powers that allow Adrien to get out of the house, and Adrien lets Plagg do whatever otherwise - no commands, unlike his past holders.

Hints of the Black Cat hit the news and Fu sees it. Fu is out of shape, and the Black Cat holder looks young. Tikki goes out to choose a new holder - Marinette. Marinette is mostly the same in this; she uses the Ladybug for stopping supervillains, but this time she doesn't have a partner.

The Black Cat has a terrible reputation... After all, Plagg was locked up in the Miracle Box and never used for a reason. Ever since its been out, people have used it for horrific purposes. Fu and TIkki are sure that Chat Noir must be up to something. If he's not, then it'd still be safer to keep Plagg in the box. Marinette, with no experience, takes their advice to heart.

Instead, she and CN are 'frenemies.' They end up working together to defeat supervillains, but before Ladybug gets the chance to take his Miraculous, something always goes wrong!

Chat Noir is unaware that Ladybug is working for the Guardian. He assumes she also gained her miraculous independently and he wants to be friends! He's never made friends before, though... why do his attempts keep going so poorly!?

When Chat Noir does figure out what Ladybug is trying to do, it turns into a competition on who can steal one another's Miraculous first. Plagg is adamant to never be put back in the box again.

When Chat Noir is first spotted in Paris, Hawkmoth doesn't reveal himself at all. Instead, he akumatizes people to try and lure CN (+LB) out and assess them. LB + CN are both unaware that the supervillains they put behind bars are actually akumatized. He tries to pit them against each other until the two accidentally break an object and discover an akuma. Oops :/

Eventually, after discovering Hawkmoth's existence, Ladybug and Chat Noir make a "truce" to work together to defeat him before getting back to their business (trying to take each other's miraculous lmao).

i have so many little things in this au and a bunch of doodles that i'll finish one day, but that's the general gist. later on, other characters get miraculous (also independently) which you know... it adds to it. writing isn't my personal forte and this is too much for more than the occasional comic from me. so i might write an outline for how i'd write the full thing at some point. (shrug)

TLDR: Ladybug, Chat Noir, and Hawkmoth all want each other's miraculous and team up and break up in different combos until eventually Ladybug and Chat Noir team up like in canon.

edit:

[chocostrwberry]

Based on the story, Trixx needs to suffer some sort of punishment or the consequences causing a domino effect that almost ended the world and left Adrien without his girl.

I was thinking maybe he’s locked inside his miraculous??

I don’t know exactly HOW this would come about, but I was thinking about changing a few parts of the au storyline to have it where when the miraculous is broken, the kwami are trapped inside and the miraculous are unable to be used. (So I would have to switch up when Mayura happens/appears and how Adrien’s mother falls comatose so thats why I’m still on the fence about it)

So maybe, Trixx’s miraculous breaks with the large unification OR Tikki does it herself as a punishment, and he becomes trapped inside without being able to like, float around or leave by will.

But even without this added aspect of the plot, him being trapped inside would be a pretty good punishment imo, since it’s not like they can do much to him because he’s also an eldritch diety like the rest of them.

[generalluxun]

Be Careful What you Wish for- A Season 6 Miraculous ficlet

Chloé bit her lip to keep from panting. The climb had been excruciating. Any number of tools would have made it easier. Sabrina was the one who normally thought of these things.  Now it was just Chloé on her own, and she was way out of practice with thinking. Climbing though, climbing she could do. Spite helped too. Banished to London for a summer! The last words of that Dupain-Cheng still echoed in her head. Ridiculous am I? I’ll show you ridiculous.

This is how Chloé ended up dressed all in black and perched atop the Dupain-Cheng bakery. The trapdoor down was unlocked, which was good, because she’d forgotten the prybar back home. She lifted the door slowly and listened… silence.  Chloé crept down onto Dupain-Cheng’s bed and- Froze.

“No, I’ve made up my mind. I’m going to tell him. I have to tell him before the school year starts. It’s a new beginning. I’ve got a new recipe baking downstairs for the first day of class. I’m going to do things right this year, from the start,” Marinette’s voice carried more than the usual agitation.

“But Marinette,” a high pitched voice answered back, “What good would it do? He seems happy the way things are. Everyone does!” A series of unidentifiable clicks sounded from below.

Marinette’s reply was quieter, “Happy lies, Tikki? My word as empty as this box is right now? It’s eating me up inside. Will it be easier or harder if it comes out some other way?”

“Who else would know?”

The sound of pacing down below. “It doesn’t make it right Tikki, just because you don’t get caught. Argh. You know what? I’ll practice on Cat Noir! He should know too. I just don’t want him feeling guilty when he hears the full story. I know my partner, he’ll blame himself.”

CAT NOIR?! Chloé bit her knuckle to keep from screaming. The bed shifted just slightly under her. She froze again, dancer's training allowing her to lock every joint in place.

“I don’t know, Marinette. He might ask why you kept the secret, and that might clue him in as to-”

“Marinette!” a deep voice boomed up from below, “Honey, the oven is smoking!”

“Oh no!” Marinette squeaked, “My cookies! C’mon Tikki!”

A thump, a familiar scramble, another thud, and the sound of MArinette’s feet pounding down the steps.

Chloé dared to unfreeze, letting her breath out in a gasp. She clamped her lips shut again and screamed wordlessly into her closed mouth.

DUPAIN-CHENG?! Of ALL people?

A little voice soothed that if it was true then at least Chloé’s life had been upended by someone with superpowers, and that made it a little easier to stomach.  The rest of her sprung into action though, racing down the stairs to Marinette’s room proper. She was doubly bent on revenge now. There had to be somethin-

It would have been so easy to miss. It was just a single line, a crack of color from a drawer left barely ajar. It was Marinette’s tacky sewing chest, but that color… Chloé hooked her finger in the crack and pulled the drawer open slowly. For the second time in as many minutes she nearly swallowed her tongue.

She knew it instantly. She’d held it once before. That gaudy red bulb of a box. The Miracle box. It sat there, solid proof that she hadn’t misunderstood, that Dupain-Cheng hadn’t just gone insane or been playing pretend. This was all real. Chloé lost sense of time. The past year was running itself through her mind, this new reality fitting itself into every interaction. She needed to scream. She needed to scream more than she ever had in her whole life. She couldn’t even begin to guess what she would scream about, or why, but the need was overwhelming.

Another harsh thumping from below cut off the explosion, making her swallow the scream painfully. Footsteps- Dupain-Cheng! Chloé grabbed the box, not even knowing why anymore. She shoved the drawer shut and bolted up to the bed. She almost made it to the trap door.

The creak from below left her poised, one hand on the thin barrier to her escape.

“-hy not?!” Marinette normally reserved that level of anger for her, “It’s over, we beat Monarch. The Butterfly is probably lodged in a filter at the local sewage treatment plant. It’ll end up in a Landfill, which as far as I’m concerned is the best place for it.”

“But Marinette…” Tikki protested.

“No buts, Tikki. I’m making changes aren’t I? Cat Noir can know. It’s time. The two of us can coordinate the team so much better if we aren’t chasing each other’s shadows half the time.”

“Marinette, it’s not over.”

“It is Tikki, we won!” That wasn’t the sound of disagreement, it was the sound of a plea.

“Even if the Ladybug isn’t needed right now, you’ll always be the guardian, Marinette. You can’t let your guard down.”

Marinette let out a growl of frustration, “Gah! Forever? I’m fourteen Tikki! I can’t believe-”

She cut herself off. Chloe could hear her deep inhale and exhale.

“I’m sorry, Tikki. I’m grateful. I’m grateful for your advice. I’m grateful I’ve had the chance to help so many people. I’m grateful for the changes in my life. I’m grateful for all of it. Still, there are times that I just wish…

“I dream of it sometimes, Tikki. Someone comes along. I hand them the box and I say. ‘I’m done. You are the Guardian now. I’m going to go live a normal life with those I love. I wish you luck in your new Guardianship, may it be easier than mine.”

Chloé’s head bounced off Marinette’s wall. The wave of sudden nausea gave her no choice. There was a shout of alarm from below. Chloe threw caution to the wind and scrambled up to the roof, silence be damned.

As the trapdoor slammed shut behind her Dupain-Cheng’s voice carried up, “Help! It’s a giant bug! A Mouse! A Bug-Mouse!”

[nobodyfamousposts]

Will Tails react to Littlebug similar to how Donnie in the TMNT crossover with the Dolls?

Not quite...

(When the heroes storm Eggman's lair)

Eggman: Haha! You fools!

Shadow: (Sees Littlebug) YOU LITTLE TRAITOR!

Littlebug: (Looking guilty but points because the goggles! She did it for the goggles!)

Shadow: I thought we had something special!

Sonic: ….dude, her inking some of her hair red to match you isn't exactly special.

Shadow: What, jealous?

Sonic: (To Littlebug) I don't get it! We were fine! Everyone was friends, we were all getting along, you even got Shadow to smile and relax a bit! So why work with Egghead?

Littlebug: (Waves hands)

Knuckles: ….he promised her an island to do what she wants with when he rules the world.

Sonic: WHY?!

Littlebug: (Makes a fist)

Knuckles: She wants to give it to her mother.

Sonic: Say what now?

Knuckles: It's going to be a gift to her—

Sonic: (To Littlebug) YOU HAVE A MOM?!

Littlebug: (Waves hands)

Knuckles: "She's the best mom."

Sonic: What, does your mom like taking over planets or something?!

Littlebug: (Suddenly looks away, ignoring him)

Sonic: ….wait a minute. She doesn't know about this, does she?

Littlebug: (Nervous)

Sonic: Does she want you to do this?

Littlebug: (Looks away)

Knuckles: She says "she never said she didn't want an island."

Amy: Come on, Little Maria! I'm sure your mother wouldn't want this!

Sonic: Please don't encourage Shadow's name issues!

Shadow: Hey!

Amy: (Ignores him) And whatever Eggman has over you, we can help!

Littlebug: (Frowns thoughtfully)

Knuckles: She says she wants to learn to make things and he's a smart guy who offered to teach her.

Sonic: (Gets an idea) Oh! Look! Look, little…Lady! (Brings over Tails) See? He's smart like Egg-head over there! He's got his own plane and plenty of inventions!

Tails: Wait—what?!

Sonic: And he's fluffy!

Littlebug: (Eyes wide, immediately wants)

Eggman: Don't be absurd! Clearly the Little Lady has better taste than anything that rodent has to offer— (Turns to Littlebug only to find her gone and the goggles left behind) What the blazes?!

Littlebug: (Now with Sonic and Tails, holding Tail's hand and wanting to see his inventions)

Tails: Um….thank you?

Sonic: Awesome, can we go now?!

Littlebug: (Nod nod)

Eggman: Not so fast! I still have the robot made with her powers! (Pulls a curtain) BE—hold? (Notices it's gone)

Sonic: ...wow. This is just an off day for you, huh?

Eggman: WHAT GIVES?!

====================

(Meanwhile, in Marinette's room)

Marinette: (Staring at a red and black polka-dotted egg-shaped metal contraption in the middle of her room)

Marinette: TIKKI!

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Marinette asked Tikki and Plagg what was Gabriel's exact Wish in the London special and they said he gave up his life for Nathalie's and that was it, nothing more to it. So the equivalent of the Wish was acquired, a life for a life, and nothing else negative nedeed to happen in order to balance out the universe after Gabriel's Wish according to the established lore. In Origins Gabriel wouldn't have been willing to give up his own life, which means he would've sacrificed an innocent person's life to revive Emilie. I guess the S5 finale is considered a win for the heroes according to the writers' own words cause they prevented Gabriel from sacrificing an innocent person for his Wish (as Gabriel can't be considered as such) even they couldn't prevent his Wish.

I guess that's why they walked back on reviving Emilie cause 1 life for 2 wouldn't fly (as this one's already stretching it considering that Gabriel was mortally wounded by the Cataclysm when he used his life up as an offering for the Wish) and I think the writers didn't want to bother with more consequences for the Wish.

(Post that spawned this ask)

I have yet to see the London special, but I took a look at the transcript and you're right. That does seem to be the official word:

Marinette: What did Gabriel Agreste wish for? Plagg: (sadly) He... gave up his life. Tikki:(sadly) In return for Nathalie's, knowing she was gravely ill. Nathalie:(shocked) He... did that?

*clears throat*

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??? That's it??? That's the wish??? The entire universe was rewritten so that a domestic terrorists didn't need to suffer the consequences of her own fully informed choice?

Gabriel: I told you never to use the Peacock Miraculous! Nathalie: I had no choice, sir. I had to save you! (coughs) Gabriel: It's damaged. It's way too dangerous. Nathalie: I want to help you all the way to the end. (smiles) Gabriel: (glares at her but then smiles) Thank you, Nathalie. (puts his hand on top of hers) For everything.

Don't get me wrong, Nathalie living was obviously part of the wish, I just expected more. If you're going to have the villain win, then go big! (I will die on the hill that, if they wanted to "redeem" Gabriel via a wish, then the wish should have been to make the sentikids real humans.) Then again, this does fall perfectly in line with things like the season three and four finals. Something major that should have changed everything, but that ends up having almost no meaningful impact on the story.

Having an official word on this doesn't actually change my stance on the wish, though. If Gabriel making a wish is not a massive no, then everything about the story was pointless in my eyes. If Gabriel was willing to change his mind in his moment of triumph after a season where he was at his absolute worst, then I do not believe that he would have been unwilling to change back in Origins. That's simply not the story that the writers told.

Based on what canon actually gave us, Gabriel would have been willing to change his mind at any time so long as he saw that video of Emilie saying "don't revive me." That video wasn't even directed at him personally! It was an incredibly tepid plea for Nathalie to not mourn her:

Emilie: (from the video recording) Don't be sad, Nathalie. You know that I had agreed to it, that Gabriel never forced me to do anything. But he should never try to bring me back. No one should have their life stolen from them because of the mistake that we made. You must continue to be happy, even though I'm no longer here. As long as there's love, it is possible. Adrien will be well-surrounded. He'll have you, Nathalie, and he'll have his father if Gabriel agrees to give up on his madness... and on me. (Gabriel breaks down.) Adrien... will have all the love he needs to be happy. Bug Noire: And that's what happened. Adrien has learned to live, and built his own happiness while cherishing the memory of his mother. She would be proud of him. Gabriel: (whilst his shaky hands reach for the paused image of Emilie on the phone) I... just can't live without her. (sobs) I loved her so much. When she left me, the world shut down around me. I still remember her smile the day Adrien was born. When I placed him in her arms, for so long, we've been thinking that we would never be able to have a child. Adrien was our little miracle. (voice breaks) Everything was so... perfect, until Emilie became ill. She is— She was right: Adrien was not alone. He had Nathalie and me. I've ruined everything. Nathalie's about to disappear, (the tip of his index finger shatters) and so am I. Adrien will have no one left.

If this lackluster moment could change his mind, then lots of things would have because there's no way in hell that the video was new information. It's even arguable the video didn't change his mind. At least, not the way I'd expect if we're going for a positive, meaningful message. Gabriel still doesn't want to live without Emilie. What we see in this scene and the official word of god is that Gabriel picked death over a life without Emilie:

Émilie will not be brought back to life as Gabriel has finally mourned her death, which Adrien has already done for a long time. But Gabriel cannot live without her and decides to die with her.

I would not call this good, meaningful growth for Gabriel. Nor would I call it a positive, uplifting message for children. I'd call it a horrifying and disgusting message for anyone who has ever suffered intense grief from the loss of a loved one, but let's not dwell on that too much. Instead, let's keep our focus on what Gabriel's choice means for the overall story.

The word of god and the implications of this scene are also that talking it out was all anyone ever needed to do:

In the end, it is not violence or strength that wins, but people talking to each other and opening up about their feelings. It is when people are not subject to their emotions, but instead try to understand them to think better and take the right decisions.

If this is true and it's okay for Gabriel to pick suicide over a life without Emilie, then all of Paris pointlessly suffered because of a simple communication issue. Ladybug and Chat Noir should have just asked Gabriel what his wish was, told him that he'd have to sacrifice himself or a willing third party to make that work, and then let him decide if he wanted to switch places with Emilie. Alternatively, he could have sacrificed himself for some innocent like a cancer patient and gone to be with his wife in death in that person's place. Same ending, just with the bonus of saving someone from cancer! You cannot convince me that he wouldn't go for it based on what we see in canon.

As a quick final note, letting Gabriel make the wish not only ruins the story, it also ruins the lore because we have to actually consider what the wish does now. As you said in the ask, it doesn't make any sense. If Gabriel is literally moments away from dying, then how can he give up his life for Nathalie's? And why do you need to rewrite the universe when the wish is something so minor? How does rewriting the universe make the wish come true? What actually changed? Did Nathalie now never use the peacock? Did her illness just switch to Gabriel? If so, how? I have so many questions that I know will never be answered because they don't exist. The lore is simply not strong enough to hold up to up any level of scrutiny.

[theerurishipper]

Welcome to me watching the Paris special, this time with commentary! I watched the special and wrote down everything here as I watched it and forgot to post it cause I'm a dumbass. Also, this is long asf, in fact, it's so long that I had to make a Part 2.

Okay here goes!

Ah, the Gabriel version of the theme. This really took me by surprise. It's fire tho.

Straight into the action, I like it.

Max and Markov aren't different people in this?

That's some entrance from Shady and Claw, really ups the stakes. Makes you wonder why Nino tried to fight them with a nerf gun.

Ubiquity is so pretty.

I might be the only one who liked the Gabe scene we got.

Feeling some nostalgia for the candy cane cosplay ngl.

And we get a good scene with Adrien and Plagg. I liked the advice Plagg gave about how not all destruction is bad. Neat.

Some Alya and Marinette. Marinette is going through some tough times and is in need of support, and Tikki takes this opportunity to escape from her and steal macaroons. No hate tho, you do you Tikki.

Though she does react to the people of Paris cheering for Ladybug. That was sweet.

Alya turns into Ubiquity, and then we get... Betterfly.

Betterfly? Seriously? Coulda just gone with Hesperia.

"I'm not sure there's anything to hope for from Ladybug." My poor baby!

Love the look of absolute confusion on Alya's face.

Hesperia's confusion about his evil counterpart is really funny ngl.

SHADYBUG

"There, you can have your boyfriend back~" love the delivery on that line lmao.

But also, CLAW NOIR

Not her just stealing his belt immediately.

Marinette hates Adrien Agreste. This truly is the reverse world.

But also, I love Claw Noir pretending to be his own fan to impress Shadybug.

Claw Noir sure does love using that Cataclysm.

For someone who just woke up to see her friend gone and a hole in the wall, Alya collected herself pretty damn quick. I would be freaking the fuck out in her position. Just another reason she's the best.

RIP Alya's phone. Gabe really did a number on you.

Shadybug makes a butterfly tracker, proving that she ain't no Gabe.

Hesperia is befuddled by our world, Part 2.

It's always gotta be the Eiffel Tower, doesn't it.

Claw Noir's pulling a Chat Blanc?? Hello??

Hesperia (I'm not gonna call him Betterfly) is apparently a gentleman. It's almost disturbing after 5 seasons of Gabe being the worst piece of shit to grace our screens.

I guess no matter the universe and moral alignment, it's Gabriel's fate to get beaten up by teenagers.

Not Tikki loredumping about parallel universes right now lmao

Times like this remind me that Tikki is, for all intents and purposes, a god.

"You'd die before I could ever explain all this to you," is actually a pretty valid (and disturbingly hilarious) justification for not having bothered to bring any of this up before.

The Supreme is someone I'd like to learn more about. I've narrowed the suspects down to either Fu or Su-Han. Watch it be Lila instead if we ever get that info.

I feel like the info about the timers is something we should have gotten way, way earlier. Like, a few seasons ago.

Ladybug's triumphant entrance!

"Whatever, pest." Queen.

I love Claw Noir's staff.

Shadybug took no prisoners at all.

CHAT NOIR

Destruction vibes, and right after that incident too.

Claw Noir is unhinged.

Claw Noir just fucking cataclysmed himself??? Guess Adrien is always gonna be self-destructive in every universe huh?

Welp, looks like Chat Noir is officially re-traumatized.

I want y'all to remember that this boy went through the whole special with a cataclysm wound on his person and did not falter once. Mad respect.

Chat Noir got tossed. Chat Blanc call back number 2.

Obsessed with the way Bryce Papenbrook pronounces "cockroach."

Finally, a villain who actually gets rid of the Lucky Charm. Hawkie, take notes.

"Who the cat are you?"

So Shadybug can create whatever Lucky Charm she wants, huh?

Someone's been listening to the fandom.

Not the time freezing lmfao

I don't like that Gabe is turning Adrien into an angel, even if this is a good version. Anyway, Chat Blanc call back 3.

"Kitty catty" "Later loser!" I love her.

Of course, not all bugs can fly.

He moved out of the way.

I fucking love Claw Noir so much you guys, he's so funny.

Well, he tried. Shadybug's just better than him ig.

Hesperia stores his butterfly in his cane. So it's just our Gabe that tries to keep multiple butterflies, I guess.

I think they should kiss.

So they're doing this in hopes that The Supreme spares them? Interesting, and pretty sad.

They're so scared of the Akuma lmfao

If I was Alya, I'd have given myself away by now. Actually, I wouldn't have had the presence of mind to even hide.

Guess the counterparts are from some dystopian world ruled by The Supreme. It tracks with the look we got at it in the opening.

"In order to get something I wanted." We saw the Peacock Miraculous in the opening too, and also Emilie died. So I guess Adrien is a Sentimonster in the other reality too. Damn it.

I guess this Gabe realized his mistake instead of descending into madness like ours.

She just broke Marinette's box like it was nothing. So much for that.

Claw Noir lounges around playing with dolls and mocks Shadybug for being lazy while she does all the work and he lazes around. Have I mentioned yet that I love him?

Also I am glad they stayed true to Adrien's character and had him play with dolls.

The whole part about Chat Noir... be still my Ladynoir heart.

Love how they incorporated the webisodes into this. About time those had relevance.

Shadybug really "hates" Claw Noir.

Marinette's having doubts, my poor baby girl.

Shadybug and Claw Noir have power, but not their strength. That's a really good line.

She's reading the diary and crying... baby.

This is such a touching scene. I don't say that lightly, but it really is.

SHE FOUND THE WISH

Marinette really wrote down every single world ending secret in this one poorly protected diary huh.

She literally took him down in 2 seconds. Bruh.

IDENTITY REVEAL! THIS IS NOT A DRILL, I REPEAT, THIS IS NOT A DRILL

Shadybug managed to achieve in 2 seconds what Marinette and Adrien have not achieved after 5 seasons of Love Square drama which I admittedly enjoy but that's not the point.

Those strange... marks? Cracks? Scars?

Blots off... I'm dying y'all.

Reverse Love Square? Hello??? HELLO???

She literally just beat his ass, tied him up and took his Miraculous and this is his reaction once he realizes who she is.

He's down so bad.

They should have played Careless Whisper here.

CUTIE PIE, MY SON

The Supreme is such a fucking asshole, he gagged the Kwamis.

Emonette wants our Marinette's life? She doesn't know the half of what she's getting into.

The Supreme got to the wish somehow? What the fuck?

"Reality is The Supreme." I don't know who this guy is, but he is DELULU.

This shot... masterfully done. My poor baby girl.

These kids are not okay. My poor sweet babies.

Daggers out. Seriously, stop it, you two.

He's trying to comfort her. They're just... I'm in pain. I'm so sad for them y'all.

Gabe in his prototype Monarch outfit.

Good thing (for him at least) he had the Ox, or else this would be his second cataclysm of the day.

Ladybug and Chat Noir are back in action, baby.

I'm sorry, I would not be able to say Betterfly unironically without bursting into laughter.

AFTER 5 SEASONS, WE FINALLY GET TO SEE CHAT NOIR'S NIGHT VISION AGAIN

Not that they needed it lmao

Alya coming in clutch with the recording. Queen.

LADYNOIR LADYNOIR LADYNOIR

It's so so so nice to see Ladynoir on screen again after Season 5 killed it.

Hit the word limit, so continued here.

[imthepunchlord]

Miraculous question: So I noticed some people recently seem to have turned on Tom (Marinette's dad) because of the whole thing of him (possibly) being a self-insert of Astruc and Sabine (Marinette's mom) (possibly) being based on an ex-girlfriend of Astruc. What do you think of the matter?

From what I've heard, yes, Marinette is the oc daughter he made and her parents are based on him and his then girlfriend at the time, who I believe was French Chinese.

And chances are good that because she's a now ex-girlfriend, that could be why Sabine does get the treatment that she does. It is brow raising that Tom gets decent amount of attention why Sabine is just... removed. Like, she's really only there to show Marinette is half Chinese otherwise you could believe she's full European. And Sabine didn't really get her own ep until, what, s4? It's almost like there's a dislike/lack of care for this character who should be very important for our lead's life, yet we've gotten more of her father than her actual mother...

I can't say for sure it is that way, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Personally, I more salt Tom (and Sabine) for how they are as parents. For they're incredibly absent from Marinette's life, to a point of being neglectful:

Doing nothing about Marinette being bullied by Chloe. And it's not like Marinette doesn't tell them, she mentions her dread to Sabine about Chloe being in her class again and all she gets is a little chin rub. And it's been confirmed that Chloe has bullied Marinette for years. Why has nothing been done? Why haven't they taken Marinette out of that school and put her elsewhere? She doesn't need to stay in that school, we see in... Queen Wasp, that they were ready to drop everything and move to New York so Marinette can study under Audrey. So does that mean they think Marinette just needs to endure the bullying? That they don't care, that this is her struggle to deal with?

Bubbler reveals Sabine will invade Marinette's privacy as punishment.

Rogorcop, you got Tom putting down Marinette for riling up her classmates, when I'm with her on her want for fairness, cause Chloe is locking onto her and pinning a fault that's not her own onto her, and she just wants fairness, that everyone can be a suspect in this not just her.

Gamer shows a lack of respect for Marinette's boundaries, as she constantly has to tell them to get out of her room.

Animaestro, shows a lack of faith in Marinette's capability and will set her up to fail, specifically with the macarons. She wants to carry more than just one cookie, and they instead give her a tower that she has no way of carrying and of course it falls. It'd be one thing if the show had Marinette insist that she could, but they don't. And this gives the implication that it wasn't solely Chloe who put down Marinette's self-esteem in Origins.

And last I'll mention is Weredad, where Chat rejects Marinette and neither parent go up to check on her. Like, we know that Marinette's not actually crying or upset, but they don't. All they know is that their daughter ran up to her room upset, and neither of them think to go up and check on her. Sabine takes time to comfort Chat. And Tom just proceeds to lock Marinette up in a tower.

Great parenting guys.

And I think the final nail in the coffin for their issues as parents, is just the detail that Marinette will turn to Tikki for advise but we never see her turn to her own parents. Which gives a clear message that Marinette knows she can't turn to them for help and advise, she won't get anything from them.

Tom and Sabine probably are insert OCs, which is nothing new, Nathaniel and Marc both are both based off existing people, but that's not reason enough for me to salt on them. How they are as characters and parents, that I can salt on.

[laterreurofficial]

So this AU is like, Evangelion meets Miraculous Ladybug?

It's not the same I know but it's got the vibes

And the

You know

Child soldiers

Also I love everything you guys have out out so far, this is a very interesting and creative premise.

It also makes a lot of sense that using powerful magic tools takes a toll on the body/mind

Was is Multimouse's curse? I think it had something to do with dissociation but how does it work exactly?

Also Tikky doesn't want to tell Marinette about the dangers of using the miraculous so often??? What the fuck Tikky :/

The mouse miraculous' curse is indeed a kind of disassociation! The miraculous side effects are often like radiation poisoning, a bleed from the magic of the miraculous to the person wielding it. So the side effects often represent an aspect of the power one gains from the magic or the animal it's associated with. With the mouse miraculous, splitting into multiple people who you *are* simultaneously would probably mess with your sense of awareness a little even without the magic radiation/

Also, regarding Tikki and the other Kwamis, remember, they are immortal. They can care, in their own way, about their wielders, but know how temporary those wielders are. Would you shoot a dog to prevent a thousand dogs from dying? To prevent the universe from ending? Would you shoot *your* dog? Even if you loved them a lot, you have to admit that the value of that one life is nothing in compare to the benefits of ending or ruining it. So it goes for Tikki and the other Kwamis. Their wielders are inconvenient at worst, and represent short friendships at best. Tikki, like Marinette, will ultimately value getting the job done over total honesty. And besides, Marinette never asked. Why would she volunteer information that would make Marinette *less* likely to serve her purpose?

[ilikekidsshows]

Okay, so... I just realized something. No one told Marinette to keep information from Cat Noir until Syren. She was the one who didn't think to tell him about the spellbook, and she was the one who showed up to Fu's without him. In Volpina, The Collector, Robostus, and Sapotis, the idea of Cat Noir knowing is never brought up, mostly because Marinette and Fu don't talk about him. This makes Syren look really weird when you think about it. We suddenly have Fu saying that it isn't the right time and the episode acts like those aren't Marinette's secrets to tell, when this wasn't a factor in any of Fu's previous appearances.

Now, I'm not trying to defend Fu here. He's supposed to be the mentor here—even if Marinette doesn't think about Cat Noir, he has the responsibility to. It certainly is a writing choice is what I'm saying.

---

Considering the priorities of the writers, they most likely didn't think of it either. They tended to ignore Cat Noir's role in things even before the retool. It could be they totally forgot that Cat Noir was also a factor in the team dynamics. I'm guessing, depending on the writing order, ‘Syren’ could be the justification to keep him in the dark after they realized that Marinette keeping him in the dark of her own volition would make her look bad if anyone thought more deeply on it, and supposedly they figured the audience just wouldn’t question Fu’s authority in the matter, since he’s the “wise, old mentor” archetype. The writers tend to think giving some throwaway excuse is enough to justify everything they pull in the show.

That's why the show is so quick to give excuses every time Marinette does something hurtful towards others instead of just, you know, having her learn to not do it. The idea that people watching could disapprove of Marinette’s actions is too horrifying to them, she couldn't possibly do something actually wrong, so they try to explain everything away to justify her, either right away or retroactively when they realize fans actually have issues with something Marinette has done instead of just accepting that the hero protagonist can do no wrong by virtue of being the protagonist.

Miraculous, I feel, moralizes secret-keeping way too much. Alya and Marinette have a big debate on whether they’d reveal they were a hero to their respective bestie or not in ‘Sapotis’, where Marinette “wins” by virtue of Alya, under Ladybug's orders, not telling Marinette in her civilian persona that she’d become a hero by the end of the episode. The debate was “I’d tell you because I tell you everything” versus “I’d not tell you to keep you safe”, with Marinette acting kinda smug about it, like the writers considered this the ultimate “gotcha!” that the fandom is using for all secrets Marinette chooses to keep now.

“She’s keeping people safe,” she maybe thinks that, but how does that work in practise? Generally, the idea of not telling a loved one about your heroics is to keep them from getting involved and getting hurt, but Marinette is the one getting her friends involved by giving them Miraculouses. She breaks that safety justification herself. The show also raises the possibility of Hawk Moth lifting this information from their mind if they ever got Akumatized, but Marinette herself has almost gotten Akumatized but could avoid the butterfly with Tikki’s encouragement. The solution to getting Akumatized is to not leave your secret-keeper alone when they’re upset. Also, the show later reveals that this is a nonissue, because Kagami, who knew Ladybug’s identity, got Akumatized with Hawk Moth being none the wiser she knew, meaning Hawk Moth can’t read minds to that degree, but, to be fair, the heroes probably didn’t know that. I think most Miraculous holders' decision to reveal or hide their identity from their loved ones is one that's based on what they consider most functional and is, in fact, not based on morality at all.

So, here’s the question we should actually ask about Marinette’s secret-keeping: when you keep  a secret that “isn’t yours to tell”, is it really a moral choice or simply a choice? The thing about keeping secrets in real life is that it, by itself, isn’t a moral or immoral act. It’s what your secret-keeping accomplishes that determines whether you made a moral choice. Of course you're not gonna tell your friend your other friend is planning to throw them a birthday party if you want it to be a surprise, but, if the birthday hero just told you they're planning to go out on that date and time, it's just practical to let them know your shared friend has something planned for that time. It's not a moral choice what you do here, simply a practical one.

If your friend comes out to you about their sexual or gender identity, this secret deals with your friend’s personal life and really is no one else’s business. Keeping that secret is, of course, good. If your friend has queerphobic parents, revealing the secret to them would put your friend in danger, so it would be bad to tell.

If your friend told you they’d murdered one of your classmates in cold blood and had hidden the body, you keeping that secret makes you an accessory to murder and you could face legal charges. However, your personal moral code also applies here. Would you be cool with murder if the victim was also a murderer and killed your best friend’s sister? Would you be against murdering but even more against betraying your friend by getting them caught for a crime they committed? What if your friend murdered an innocent person and you both know this and your friend tells you they plan to kill again because they’re actually a serial killer and keeping their secret means more innocent people will die? Then it would undeniably be bad if you chose to keep that secret.

There are more important things to consider than whether or not a secret is “someone’s to tell”, like actual harm coming to people because of secrets that should be kept or revealed.

The matter of secrets is that we need to take into account who they affect. The things Marinette keeps from Cat Noir: the grimoire, Fu, her training, Rena Furtive becoming a permanent member, are all things that affect Cat Noir. I’m sure Cat Noir would like to know the history of the power he wields. I’m sure Cat Noir would appreciate some guidance and training too instead of being left to flounder and try to figure things out alone. I’m sure Cat Noir would like to know what backup is available in tight situations, especially if Ladybug herself isn’t available to be Rena Furtive’s sole contact. The excuse that these aren’t Marinette’s secrets to tell, because they’re Fu’s or Alya’s, are just excuses. These are Marinette’s secrets, because she’s benefiting from something she’s actively denying Cat Noir access to.

Her secret-keeping is even more questionable in the season five finale with Gabriel’s evil deeds, Hawk Moth’s identity and Adrien’s status as a Sentimonster. These secrets directly influence Adrien, his ability to recover from how his father treated him and his ability to keep himself safe when his free will can be easily hijacked. This information doesn’t just affect Adrien, it’s information he needs. And the stans are justifying Marinette keeping this information from him with “it’s not Marinette’s secret to tell”, implying the responsibility should be shifted to anyone else but their precious idol. Well, here’s what I think of that: these secrets are also not Marinette’s to keep.