#which was my intent for my drow playthrough

[lavenderjiang]

finding shadowheart v relatable, im only at the start of act 1 so far in both my playthroughs, but i keep accidentally becoming besties w/ her bcos we agree on things

[alicelufenia]

A Guide To Keeping Wyll And Karlach After Siding With Minthara In Act 1

Or as I like to call it, how to permanently recruit Karlach and Wyll (because I have yet to complete a full playthrough with both of them)

Ever since Larian added a way to legitimately recruit Minthara by knocking her out, I've wanted to help the community be more successful in their efforts to give my favorite drow yet another concussion. Because like all things related to Minthara, the KO method was buggy as hell, non-intuitive, and metagamey as fuck. I wrote multiple guides on it, to the point where I made the master post my pinned for a while. You may have seen it at some point, but here it is again for reference [x]

As happy as I am with the success of those posts, it's time I revealed my true alignment. I'm actually one of those scary Minthara stans who has killed the grove more times than siding with the tieflings. I know, you'd never guess by looking at my blog (don't look at my blog) I did it my first playthrough and it's only gotten easier since. And while I stand by it as the single best way to experience Minthara's character and story arc, I'm not so cold-hearted as to deny that it's a shame we miss out on Wyll and Karlach in the process.

So rather than play the villain, what say we have them stick around by taking on the REAL villains of Act 1:

The Druids

To start off, you'll want both Wyll and Karlach in your party, and Withers in camp. I've had him show up upon crossing one of the bridges in Act 1, either to the blighted village or the goblin camp, I forget which, or you can bust him out of his Dank™ crypt. Proceed through Act 1 as normal. To be safe I got as much approval from them as I could in early game, but that may not be necessary. Offer to kill Kagha for Zevlor.

Now, both of them need to die, and preferably not by the hand of your party members. I had them suicide charge the gnolls and get wrecked, as on Tactician mode they'll attack downed party members until they're dead. I don't know if having them jump off a cliff works, but it might. We need to entrust them to Withers by asking him to look after their bodies instead of reviving them. Their bodies will then appear in camp by their tents.

Now go kill Kagha without revealing the shadow druid conspiracy. This should trigger the Druids to start fighting the Tieflings, which will happen off screen as you deal with Kagha and the few druids inside with her (killing Nettie earlier might make this easier in case she joins in. She tried to poison you, so serves her right.)

Steal that idol! I'm not 100% sure this is required, but it takes no effort at this point and you need to sit tight for a minute, so might as well.

Also if you thought you could return the idol to Mol, no luck, she won't accept it until the fighting ends. Unfortunately all the tieflings need to die for this to work, so rip Ring of Protection. But not exactly rip the tiefling kids, more on that in a minute.

OOF, rip Dammon (and most of Karlach's questline. Don't look at me like that, it's Larian's fault for tying her entire story onto one npc and giving nothing as an alternative)

I'll give the tieflings credit, they did not go down without one hells of a fight. This bear was found burnt to death, probably due to Zevlor.

Damn, they really killed all of them. I wanna point out this can happen even on a good playthrough with the best of intentions.

In the end, only four(!) druids survived. I don't know how they'd fare with Kagha fighting too, but overall I'd say the druids talk big for doing this badly against a bunch of unarmed civilians. We kill the last four of them, then get ready to move on.

With trepidation, I go to check on the kids. Not recommended if you raid the grove for real, but here:

It's just... empty. No bodies, no npcs hanging around, they completely cleared out.

I like to headcanon that Mol followed through on protecting her kids, and they escaped down this hole. I'm still very early in this run used for testing, so I have legit no idea if they show up later. But this is good enough for me to include them all in my fanfiction so :D Congrats, the only tieflings with rights (sorry Karlach!) are gonna be alright (because if we don't see a body it doesn't count)

Next step is to just... keep going. Sazza can get you into the goblin camp no problem, and if you play a Drow or have Shadowheart use disguise self, you can gain entry without any checks or dialogue. My half elf needed to talk her way in (or just use AUTHORITY)

best goblin btw

MOMMY

Lookit how happy she is after Sazza has brought her the grove's location! A lead on the weapon AND another True Soul AND she's concussion-free? Everything's coming up Minthy!

It's at this point things get a little weird (I did warn ya), as the game now has flagged the grove as "raided" even though we haven't done an actual grove battle, which is a different thing (as I'll demonstrate later), so Shadowheart has her "post-raid" dialogue when we wake up on the next long rest. The Raid The Grove quest is also marked as Completed, but still has a marker on the map. Have patience, return to the grove and walk through the (destroyed) gate, and suddenly:

The quest will update, and direct you to speak with Minthara in the secluded chamber where she normally is at when the raid is finished. There's also goblins milling about the grove now, same as the post-raid grove.

Get someone who looks at you the way Minthara looks at a cave full of dead druids and tieflings.

"No Minthara, I never meant for any of this to happen. This was all my fault, I shouldn't have gotten involved, they're all dead because of me-"

"Nevermind I am no longer morally conflicted about all this."

To the goblin party!

LIES. He never mentions it again lmao. C'mon patch 7 fix this! (you won't)

Why we're all really here 🥰

The next morning, speak to Withers and ask to collect your dead party members. He will have you confirm payment for their resurrection.

And it works! Karlach and Wyll are back, they can rejoin the party, and their approval is Unchanged!

Since I was on a roll, I went ahead and checked a few other scenarios: what happens if we don't start a fight with the druids and just raid the grove directly, with Karlach and Wyll dead? Well you can revive them afterwards, but...

Dang, Wyll still leaves (he's still so nice about it though! Even wishes you well!)

Meanwhile Karlach: Feck off, cunt.

Well, she's not leaving, but she's never been this blunt or cold towards me before. I wonder how much-

Damn, -49?! That's literally one away from leaving permanently! She started at 50, which means Karlach looses 100 approval from raiding the grove, and being dead doesn't change that. I think the only reason she's at -49 instead of -50 is due to that +1 from reviving a party member. So, she's grateful for being brought back to life, but not happy about anything else. You know what, that's fair.

One last thing I tested (and no pics for it cause this post has reached its limit! But those extra pics of Sharp-Eye Sluck are important, so I'll just write this next part out) I wanted to see if it was even necessary to finish off the remaining druids after they killed all the tieflings. So I left the grove (manually, you have to journey quite a distance before it lets you fast travel, almost all the way to the first bridge) and headed to the goblin camp to start the raid as normal.

Like our first time, we arrive at an empty grove. Even the druids we left behind are gone, meaning you can safely headcanon this method as joining up with the goblins and Minthara to take revenge on the druids. The game still acts like you killed the tieflings though, down to Gale's threatening to leave.

But Karlach and Wyll still get brought back without a problem! You can even revive them DURING the goblin party and they'll act like nothing's happened!

Wyll And Karlach Recruited Alongside Raiding With Minthara: Success!

So Baldur's Gate 3 community! I now implore you to put down your Pommel Strikes, switch off that Non-Lethal toggle, and stop giving poor Minthara even more brain damage than the tadpole and the Absolute already gave her!

And when you reach Moonrise Towers to rescue her, for the love of Selûne, when the guards are torturing her in the prison, don't just swing on them. Agree to enter her mind first. You'll have a dicey roll to deal with, but trust me, it's SUPER worth it!

As for the whole process, well. Despite the clunky way quests update after you start the grove civil war, the resulting lack of direction and narrative inconsistencies in the dialogue post-goblin party, this still feels like a more immersive way to recruit Minthara on a run with both Karlach and Wyll still present, than the KO method, in my not-so-humble opinion.

Consider this: You've got a major twist in the Act 1 plot now, with the Druids turning on you and killing the tieflings you were trying to help, leaving your party dispirited and lacking direction, other than to continue their search for a cure, which leads them to meet the Absolutists, the goblins, and the drow commander leading them and looking for the druids' sanctuary. And in the midst of your grief and anger, you side with her, both to get close to the source of the infections (as the Dream Visitor suggests) but also to take your revenge out on the druids.

You can feel conflicted, regretful even, but the context has changed enough that I think even a good-aligned Tav with no qualms about methods can live with this result. It just takes a bit of filling in the gaps (do you simply point the goblin army at the druids and look away, or lead them yourself by Minthara's side? Either way works for the results)

The only real downside is, again, Karlach's story just sorta ends here, until the confrontation with Gortash. I personally think this is a problem with Larian's writing for her, and at this point fanfiction is about the only solution in sight. But if you don't mind her not getting the chance to touch others again, you really have nothing to lose here

Besides, were you really going to pay Dammon for that act 3 armor? Of course not, you steal it every run and don't pretend otherwise, "hero."

[ashisurana]

As much as I don’t blame people who choose Astarion to finish ritual, I don’t understand why people choose it because “it’s what he wants”.

I mean… a whole story of Astarion is him being abused in every aspect of his life. When you’re asked about what he wants and what he is afraid of the correct answers are “Freedom” and “forever feeling like a slave to someone else” (both answers made him a little annoyed but they’re correct, he admits that).

And then you have ritual. You clearly can see that Astarion is losing himself. Your character can look into his eyes and actually see that he isn’t himself and only thinking about power he might to calm. Why he’s thinking that being powerful is the only way to being free is topic for different analysis but you already, before you let him finish ritual can see that something is changing.

If you let him ascend you can say bye to Astarion you know, he will not treating your character equally, he will always think about himself as a better. He humility you, treating like a “pretty thing in his collection”. He doesn’t love your character (if you romance him), there’s no love in this relationship anymore. He can even say “(…) I love you, because it is what you want to hear, yes?”(or something like that because I didn’t make a screenshot of this scene).

If you don’t let him ascend he will actually thank you for that later. You can say he didn’t change but I’d say that if you don’t let him finish ritual he actually changed too. He is not scared of the future (or at least not scared of shadows of his past). If you romance him, he’s still love you… to add more reasons why ascended Astarion don’t treat you equally, he can say (if you he didn’t finish ritual) “we are… equal”.

But why I don’t think he actually want to finish ritual? Well… staring with what Astarion wants from the very beginning. Freedom. He isn’t free after ascension. He’s metaphorically slave of power and shadow of Cazador. He basically became Cazador 2.0, he acts like his old master and treats your character in the very similar way Cazador does to him. There’s no freedom from his past. He is acting like the only thing he knows, Cazador. When we let him to finish ritual we just let circle of abuse to star again. I saw people saying that “duh, it’s still better than letting go so many vampires spawns into the world”. Well first, you don’t need to free them and second… ascended Astarion is a threat not only for Baldur’s Gate. He is saying often that his intention aren’t peaceful, he wants more and more… in manner of good choices it’s absolutely horrible in consequences.

Another reason is more for people who romance him but there’s plenty of moments in game when your character is in danger and Astarion is actually very worried about you. Saying something what Astarion would absolutely say “I almost got worried about you” which just means he was very worried. He is trying to protect your character in many aspects. Like for example in Act III when you meet this obsessed with blood drow she’s starting to convince your character to drink a strange potion. When you decline her request she will still trying to change your mind which made Astarion angry “you don’t understand that she/he said ‘no’?”. Not only he’s worried about your character but also he understands that someone doesn’t want to do something.

And what it has to ascended Astarion? Well… in scene when he’s changing your character into vampire you actually can say “no”. Astarion will not like that, he don’t respect your boundaries anymore. Yes, if you repeat that he won’t change you but it will also made him to broke up with you.

Well… anyway. It’s already way too long. I just wanted to say again that I don’t blame anyone who chose to finish ritual (after all who I’m to even blame anyone for that lol in one of my playthroughs I did it too so). I just wanted to share some thoughts and y’know

[the-director]

My Tav Calder! He is a half drow bard.

Bonus info specifically: (contain spoilers for the endings and epilogues.)

Gale: when I started playing Calder (he is my second playthrough) I had the intention of romancing Gale. So I pursued him hard. And then... oh and then karlach came onto me. And I fell. Hard. Had to break up with gale. I think that. In the story of this playthrough, this breakup is the reason why I wasn't able to convince him to give up the crown.

Lae'zel: despite being a bard, Calder does enjoy a good fight as I picked college of swords for him. But that is not the reason why they are friends, they are friends because they relate to their pasts. Calder does have a noble background, but he was also sold into slavery (long story short he is in a bit of a zuko situation. But instead of finding the avatar, he got sold and is told to "work to earn his place among his family") so. They both understand the weight of high expectations. But also I like their dynamic due to what lae'zel says to you in the epilogue if she goes with Orpheus. That you taught her diplomacy, and I think that's very fitting for her and Calder (or rlly with her and a bard/high charisma/pacifist tav)

Shadowheart: honestly I feel like shadowheart is so... older sister? The way that she tries to be above everyone, the way she is so sparky to you, but also becomes loyal and trusting of you. Idk it reminds me of older sisters in like early 2000s movies. As a result, when I'm not romancing her. I tend to view her and my tav as feeling a kinship to eachother. I think this is also because of both of them being half elves.

Wyll: I actually have a lot of thoughts about Calder and wyll, specifically because of Calder growing up in this rich upperclass family, they probably met eachother while they were younger, or at least both of them are aware of their families (I'm still deciding how old I want Calder to be, and how long he was a slave) so there's like. Both of them know eachothers childhoods, but then both have to wonder "what happened to you for you to wind up here" I imagine they have a heart to heart with wyll talking about the pact and getting sent away by his father, and Calder talking about his wild magic that got him rejected by his family and then further being betrayed by them.

Another component of this relationship is the "karlach protection squad" I feel like it's basically canon that wyll and karlach, whether or not they romance eachother, will be very close and have a friendship together. And so especially with karlachs infernal engine, they both feel this need to protect her, to find a way to save her life. Which is just. So neat yknow? This strong durable character who is yet so vulnerable due to this replacement for a heart she has, something imposed against her. That she tried to make work for her, and it did, for a bit. Until when she finally thinks she can get her life back. She instead finds she's a dead girl walking.

Anyways. Both wyll and Calder are devoted to her in this way. And so even though they're kind of in that space of "so similar to eachother that we hate eachother since we can see every fault and flaw that we hate about ourselves in the other" they put aside their similarities and work towards this goal.

Astarion: Calder is, ngl, highly morally dubious. He is. Incredibly two-faced, or more precisely 6 faced. He's very much a people pleaser, a liar one may call him. He breaks every law for his own gain. Which astarion can get behind. Calder reads astarion like a book moreso than anyone else, which is why Calder trusts him. Astarion may be seen as "untrustworthy" but Calder trusts because he knows what he does, he can rely on that. I'm thinking this is especially in the early game. Where Calder might not have been too sure about the other ones and their true intentions.

I think, perhaps this trust is also due to their shared background. Of course I made calders backstory specifically so that it could parallel everyone else's and deal with the similar themes of "lack of autonomy" and "authority" and so on. But I think other than wyll, calders background is the most like astarions. And so since he is familiar to this. Desperation and fear for safety that astarion feels all the time. That is why he *knows*

Halsin: Remember how there was that glitch where gales approval was super easy to get, and as a result he would hit on every single tav regardless of how much you talked to him and as a result he came off as a huge creep and people hated him? That's how I feel about halsin.

Jaheira: similar to shadowheart, but in this one I JUST. LOOK AT JAHEIRA AND I HEAR MY MIND GO. "PLEASE ADOPT ME" if she adopted me everything would be right with the world (it wouldn't but) my mommy issues. Just. (I have three moms, which one would think would mean I have no mommy issues. No I just have three different types of mommy issues)

Anyways. Seriously. I think that at first Calder would kind of have the karlach fangirl moment, he wouldn't externalize it. But it would definitely happen. Overtime though they develop the bond of cub and crow. And I think. The definitive good ending for Calder is one where he joins the harpers. (I'm just now realizing that then he would be Chris pines character in dnd and karlach would be that one barbarian lady)

Karlach: she snuck into my heart, and I think she snuck her way into calders too. I think at first, it starts with passion, it starts with warmth and comfort in eeachothers arms. Then it evolves into late-night talks around the campfire. Of him singing her favorite songs, telling her favorite tales. Maybe they do it together. Him on his lute and just her singing. Or them acting scenes together. I imagine them fighting together, him inspiring her, healing her maybe, her defending him and beating anything that hurts him into a pulp. I imagine them entering the city together. He took the tadpole, she is so worried for him. She tries not to let it show. His ego is bruised. He's hurting inside. They open up though, they find solace in eachothers arms again. That one scene happens, they talk about the future they'll never get. The cabin, with the goat. Oh how he wished he could perform for her forever.

I finished the game before patch 5, before going to hell meant finding a cure. And even then, I think Calder wouldn't force her to go. I think Calder always gets wyll out of the contract and wyll decides to be Duke. And so she dies. On the docks.

And Calder is ruined.

But he develops a plan. Undo timeline.

[shimmerbeasts]

//Drow is interesting for Bhaal, as he was a mortal human man and seems to still like his old form a lot. Not that he can't, he is a god, but what would be the motivation for it? Does he have a reason to choose this specifically for Jinx? (Comment made by @steel-and-fire)

I hope you do not mind me posting your comment in a separate post as I have a bit to talk about, and that way, I have the advantage of no sudden word limits cutting me off.

First of all, people have to remember, that I am still fairly early in my playthrough, and while I know certain things already about the Dark Urge storyline, I only know bits and pieces. I do not yet have the full picture. However, even if I had the full picture, there may be a chance that I am doing this regardless. I like giving canonical characters and sometimes even the world or their relationships my own flavour. Seriously, look at my worldbuilding for Zaun and you get what I mean.

Anyhow, onto the whole drow and Bhaal stuff. To understand what my idea was here, you have to understand that when I chose to make Jinx's BG3 verse and designed her as my avatar for my playthrough, I tried to draw as much from who she is in Arcane. I did not even try to make Jinx look exactly like Arcane Jinx because that is just impossible.

As you can clearly see here, Jinx's original aesthetic would hardly map completely onto BG3's aesthetic. So, I decided that while I gave clear nods towards Jinx's appearance like her blue hair or her demonic purple and demonic blue eyes, what was more important was capturing the spirit of her character in her design. Ergo more, who is she as a person versus what does she look like.

This is for instance why Jinx is a thiefling instead of a human or elf. From what I heard of the race, they are outcast, but also associated with evil and trickery. And in my opinion, Jinx is an almost tragic spin on a trickster and malevolent character. Other things, I included are nods to the people, she canonically holds dear, wherever I could. Everybody with two working brain cells, who saw Arcane, can tell that Jinx's heterochromatic eyes are a nod towards Silco as is her tattoo, which in my brain is almost like Shimmer leaking out of her eyes. Her horn's red tips are a nod towards Vi.

Anyway, back to your question: How the heck does any of this tie to Bhaal appearing as a drow for Jinx instead of his apparent human shape?

The short answer is: I decided to give Jinx pre-brain damage and tadpole situation a dynamic with Bhaal which is very similar to Silco and her in canon. So I was like "If I go with the whole Silco = Bhaal analogy, why not go all out?" And well, if you look at Silco's appearance, I felt a drow would make the most sense for Bhaal's chosen form.

You see my point, right?

I also thought a lot about how Jinx interprets what "Father of Murder" means or more specifically what murder is. And well, if you look at the definition of the word murder, the topic of intention is very crucial to differentiate it from manslaughter. So, I felt that for Jinx, intention would be a very important element in how she unleashed her dark urge in the past. It is about setting up a kill and the whole chase element of it. Girly ain't a hound, in this case, she is a hunter.

And I was like Okay, what would be easier for a god. Trying to brute force her into a completely different path or you know, taking the path she already is on, and speeding it up. I chose to interpret Bhaal as taking the shape of a drow for Jinx as a nod to Silco, but also because she is very receptive to wanting to make a parental figure proud in her own unique ways. In a way, Bhaal is fitting himself around Jinx's interpretation of who he is. Is he still the quote-on-quote "Father of Murder"? Yes. Did Jinx choose to take that more literally? Also, yes. Does Bhaal choose to play into this because it enables him to control Jinx more easily? Yes.

In my eyes, Bhaal would be scarier if he could accommodate multiple interpretations of the word murder and not just one. And that is exactly what he is doing with Jinx.

[rottenbrainstuff]

BG3 playthrough: The Siege

(Mild spoilers? Not really?)

The big ol’ grove siege: Holy smokes was that ever fun.

But first of all, something super important: so I compared notes with a friend of mine. Can I just… double check… is everyone aware that the siege defense route of the grove is an option, to complete the “save the refugees” task?

My friend did the “kill the three goblin leaders” route. He wasn’t aware of the siege defense route. I was quite surprised and this made me think. I realized most of the discussion I see online is about the three goblin leaders route. I realized that I think the only reason I knew about the siege defence at all is that I previously read an article which was talking about attacking the grove vs defending the grove. I realized that the game doesn’t make the siege defense option very obvious: Zevlor and Halsin both push you to kill the leaders. There is, now that I think about it, only one single small clue that a siege defense is even a possibility.

And this is really, really odd to me… because the siege defense is amazing, and fun, and has some really good cutscenes, and extra content! The goblin camp fight, as far as my friend described it, is just… fighting your way out of a big and tedious fight. With no cinematics, no extra NPC flavour, no fun stuff at all. I have absolutely no idea why Larian hid this really nice event, and tries to direct the players towards something so uninteresting instead. My friend thinks maybe it’s supposed to be a reward for exploring all options, but like, that’s a helluva lot of work to put into a little easter egg, if that’s the case?

Maybe the defense is just common knowledge and EVERYONE knows about it and they just CHOOSE to kill the goblin leaders. The three leaders route is definitely faster and easier. But it’s so much less fun. So, just in case it’s NOT common knowledge… and that would be STARTLING: man guys, this is a very important protip, definitely make yourself aware of the siege defence route.

This is how to trigger it:

First of all you have to have to be in the goblin base and on friendly terms with the goblins somehow. (in my game, it’s as simple as being a drow) When you talk to Minthara, you’ll get a sense of her eagerness to destroy the grove. Clarify that your intentions are to fight with the tieflings and warn them. (this is, as far as I can see, the only clue the game gives AT ALL that this fight is an option) You’ll get some dialogue options next where you can attempt to throw her off: offer to get info from the prisoner then lie about it, try to show her the wrong spot on the map, etc etc etc. Don’t be too worried if you fail your saves because sometimes it makes fun alternate dialogue: I failed an intelligence check to try and keep her out of my memories, and I ended up claiming I was drunk and mixing things up, which was funny.

Anyways after a while you’ll notice the dialogue keeps looping back to the same options. Eventually you will have no other option but to just show her on the map where the grove actually is. (you can demand payment to get approval from Astarion if you want!) Minthara will declare that they can finally do the raid, she will leave to rally troops (you can follow her and watch her if you like), and in your journal it says Minthara is waiting for you to infiltrate the grove, and you should get some rest. Oh no, you fucked up!

Don’t worry. Do a long rest and in the morning you should see your journal update again: you now have a quest to warn the tieflings she is coming. Go to the grove and you’ll see they’re all preparing for an attack. (Zevlor will have slightly different dialogue if you camped outside the grove vs if you camped inside it) And have fun! You can talk to the tieflings: they all have new dialogue and positions, you can get set up for the siege, there’s a couple people with small tasks to do, and when you’re ready to go, blow the horn. (PROTIP: Once you are inside the grove, the tieflings will no longer open and close the gate for you automatically! You have to do it yourself! What this means is, if you are inside the grove, and decide to fast travel somewhere else (via the map), if you don’t leave the gate open for yourself, when you come back, you are locked out and have no way to raise the gate! I had to misty-step Wyll up to the top to let us back in. Don’t be like me)

Zevlor has two really nice and moving speeches, you get a Minthara cutscene which is the only time you’ll really see her if you’re playing a good route, you get all the extra NPC dialogue, you get a wicked fun siege defense fight with a lot of different parts to it, you get to fight alongside the tieflings and defend them directly, like. Man why would you NOT do the siege? Why would someone program this great sequence then hide it like that? I have no idea why the game tries to guide you so much to the three leaders route.

So the siege prep: as I mentioned before, fuck the goddamned druids and leaving Doni outside the door. If the goblins break in (which they won’t) I’m going to lead them straight to that goddamned door. The tieflings buried 2 little oil barrels outside to help in the fight. Two. That’s cute! I have a stash of about 20 barrels I’ve been saving at my camp, including a whole pile I stole from the goblin store room. Just for funsies I once set half of them up and set them on fire to see how big they would boom. The answer: BIG. Two barrels? Oh sweeties that’s so cute, but with my firepower we are going to vaporize Minthara. Time to see how high these goblins can fly!

I just love how emotionally involved I’ve got though, I loved that I immediately wanted to go check on the kids in the cave, and noticed right away that one was missing (that’s not counting Doni I mean, who I already knew was missing), which made me worried, so I spent time looking all around and finally found him up by the damned gate and refusing to leave. (you kids! I’m going to pick him up like a barrel and throw him into that cave myself. That, or stick him in my backpack so I can keep an eye on him) I loved hearing them mention that some tielfings had left overnight, and again getting worried and running around to figure out who wasn’t there. I loved running around the camp getting my positions set up, my inventory straight, my barrels arranged, and playing bard music for everyone to help calm down the ones that are scared. Had a blast. Some of the tieflings were so scared, poor things. Don’t they know they’ve got a big daddy dark urge on their side who’ll rip anything into little red pieces if it even thinks about crossing that gate?

And then MY GOD the actual fight was so much fun: the cutscenes, the dramatic speeches, all the different enemy pieces. I had Karlach to the very left where the spider jumps up, to keep Arka safe and to throw alchemist fires at the various barrel stations. I had Wyll to the very right to soak the sniper damage, fire off eldritch blasts, and make sure those sappers didn’t get near the gate. My tav is a bard so he was in the middle, making sure everyone was all healed up cause those tieflings are pretty squishy, and taking care of the goblins that get thrown over the gate in barrels.

And Astarion - the mean little murder bitch that he is - he was running around out on the ground with that amazing invisibility cape, taking care of loose ends. He put Minthara out of her misery when one barrel bomb cluster wasn’t quite enough to one-shot her, then picked off the goblins one by one. The ogre throwing the barrels got distracted and kept trying to look for him, so that worked quite nicely.

This is so much more fun than just a one-by-one assassination then an escape through an aggrod camp fighting a million of the same kind of goblin. Definitely try the siege route. Barrels are a must. Steal them from the store room.

Then there’s the party and that was so damned fun. Noticed a few weird things though. Will talk about that later. The outside of the grove is now an absolute horror show of destroyed barrels and goblin bodies, and those shitty druids can have fun cleaning that mess up themselves.

Phew!!!

[tashas-cauldron-of-magic-soup]

The Surface Drow - Act One

Where you meet Kazimir:

As Tav and likely Shadowheart approach the Nautiloid wreckage, three Intellect Devourers can be found blocking the path through, triggering a fight. As the current party begin engaging the foes, periodically between turns an arrow will be shot from somewhere off-screen that hits one of the Intellect Devourers, aiding the party in the fight.

Once the fight is over, a cutscene is triggered of the party looking for the direction of the arrows. If Shadowheart is in the party, she yells.

“Quit playing games and show yourself!”

From a hidden spot on a high ledge of wreckage, a voice calls out. The accent is notably halfling if Tav makes a high enough History check.

“Sorry for butting in! You looked like you were in a spot of trouble.”

Kazimir walks out and hops down from his perch to meet the party. The scene shows him only from the waist down or from the back until he’s finally standing before the party, when it pans up to reveal that he is a drow. He smiles, nods his head, and introduces himself.

“I’m Kazimir. You may call me Kaz. And you’re from the ship, too, right?”

Tav is naturally given several options for dialogue. One introducing themselves and affirming that they were also on the ship, one expressing confusion over a drow being friendly, and one expressing distrust and drawing a weapon.

To the immediate distrust and drawing of a weapon, Kaz will throw up his hands in defense and step back.

“Easy now! I promise I’m harmless. To you, at least.” and gestures to the dead Intellect Devourers.

And from here, Tav may either engage in a fight or express their confusion in his origins as in the first dialogue options. To the confusion about his origins, Kaz will explain his background further to assuage any doubts of his intentions.

“Very astute, not many of my folk are friendly. But my advice is to be more open-minded than to judge a book by its cover. I was raised in Waterdeep, abandoned in the Underdark as a baby, adopted by halflings. For all intents and purposes, I’m the worst drow by Menzoberranzan standards that ever there was. And that’s a very good thing for you and me both.”

From here, Tav may introduce themselves as in the first set of dialogue. To which Kazimir will offer to join them, giving Tav the option to include him as a companion.

“Well, we should thank our lucky stars that we survived falling from the sky. Now the challenge is finding out if we survive what’s probably gnawing on our gray matter as we speak. I've never tangoed with mind flayers, but I'm a ranger by trade. Quite a good one if I say so myself. So set me on a trail and I'll track it. Want company?”

What do you learn about Kazimir in Act One:

Well, in your first meeting, Kaz feels compelled to reveal his origins of being a drow raised on the surface in many playthroughs. And even if Tav doesn’t inquire on it in the initial meeting, he naturally reveals it if you speak to him at camp and ask:

“So, what’s a drow doing befriending surfacers like us?”

He will explain how his mom, Quindelline, found him abandoned just outside Menzoberranzan and smuggled him to the surface. What life was like living just outside Waterdeep with his halfling mothers. How they taught him to do no harm, but take no shit. That he’s just as capable of being a kind, good person as anyone else, no matter what kind of attitude people hold about drow. You can gain a bit of approval if you agree with that sentiment, and disapproval if you insist that distrusting drow is only natural.

Special Scenes for Kaz:

If Kazimir is in your party when meeting Minthara, they will have a brief unique dialogue in which Minthara speaks to him in Deep Drow, and Kaz responds in kind. On a successful Insight check, one can notice that Kaz speaks Drow with a light surface accent, clarifying that it is not his native tongue.

A translation of their conversation can be picked up by characters that understand Deep Drow language, or have other means of translating via magic.

Minthara: Who is your matron, jaluk?

Kaz: I have none. I was raised on the surface, it is my home.

Minthara: That much is clear from your accent, and your lack of decorum in addressing me. In Menzoberranzan, I would have you caned for looking me in the eye.

Kaz: I’m lucky we are not in Menzoberranzan, then.

Kaz is clearly uncomfortable and agitated during the conversation, and shoots the player character a look before Minthara continues to speak to the player. He is disapproving of actions that support her, and will greatly disapprove if she is taken in as a companion at this stage. Enough he may leave the party this early depending on his approval thus far.

In the fight with Auntie Ethel, he has unique Vicious Mockery lines as the other companions do. These include:

“A surface drow? So pitiful even his own blood didn’t want him!”

“Go run back to your mommies, little boy!”

“Too bad a Matron couldn’t beat some manners into you!”

“I would have abandoned you, too!”

And, as with having a drow Tav, if Kaz is present in the party during negotiations with the Absolutists in the Selunite Temple, you have an easier time. As they assume Kaz is in some way associated to Minthara, or the Absolutist cult at large, and are afraid of him.

In response to their kowtowing to him, Kaz will quietly, jokingly remark to Tav.

“Typically I try quite hard to be disarming, but I could get used to this type of treatment for the time being. If only to get us closer to a solution, of course.”

Tav Question

Pretend for a minute your Tav is an origin character. Origin characters have a main story with scenes in each of the three acts, as well as a three act romance structure (usually with check points in the form of their main story scenes but sometimes with affinity). I will be doing questions for each act, both the main story and the romance story.

What is your character’s ACT ONE main story? How do you meet them? What do you learn about them in act one? Do any special scenes trigger for them?

[coolseabird]

Gale is my favorite guy for her, and Karlach is my favorite girl so I'm happy each is winning out of their respective gender. :] Minthara’s dialogue with both is just so much fun, and I think she has the strongest chemistry with them by far. But ultimately, Galethara is my top choice, especially for an evil run. He’s more easily corruptible and can believably fall into villainy for her, which is perfect for a darker playthrough. Mintharlach, on the other hand, is my favorite for a more good-aligned, knockout recruitment/romance run. It's super sweet. 🥺 @alicelufenia ‘s writeup explains the appeal of them perfectly imo (check the reblogs for that) so I’ll focus on Galethara here.

In the game, Gale as a companion feels conflicted about the grove, but with the right words, you can talk him down, make him see things your way. Meanwhile, Karlach and Wyll hold fast to their principles, and they’ll leave rather than stay with someone who commited such an atrocity, which makes sense for their characters. If you’re playing doing an evil origin and want to stay in character while having a believable moral decline, Galethara just hits different. As an enjoyer of destroying the grove that's why I have to put Galethara as my #1.

It’s like, Yes, this is wrong, but this pretty drow lady might be the only chance we have to survive. I also don't want to die. What’s one grove compared to destroying many more with the orb? Just that initial moral compromise leading to more and more. And later on after learning about the crown, Oh! I’d use the crown differently, for the greater good… we could shape the world in our image, take down the gods themselves. It’s that heady corruption arc that makes them so compelling together. (And it's not like he needed that much of a push to begin with based on how companion Gale acts in Act 3 haha) He is the definition of the road to hell is paved with good intentions and Minthara is more than happy to drive down that road. It’s great stuff!

Gale and Minthara together are like the Macbeths; they're both ambitious nightmares who can make each other worse. But Minthara also grounds Gale emotionally, she's always encouraging him to pursue greatness and to defy the gods and not to kill himself.

You know those memes about creating a character just to give Shadowheart an aneurysm? Like a githyanki cleric of Selune? Gale is that character to Minthy, lol. He’s a non-drow, a wizard, and a man, and yet, to her horror, she develops feelings for him. Then, when he saves her and proves he’s just as ambitious as she is, she falls hard. I think romances between foils are so fun. They’re so different in so many ways, but both were cast aside by the gods and have similar desires: to prove themselves and rise to the top. They’re also the most codependent companions in the game, and putting them together is fascinating. They’d make absolutely terrible villains together, and I love it. Gale's evil Absolute ending with a romanced Minthara is especially fun. You get to crusade with her to destroy the gods. It meshes very well. He's definitely going after Lolth first. And even if you don't do that, becoming God of Ambition Gale and supporting her war in the Underdark is very fun too. She says this out of pocket line in the epilogue:

God Gale: I may no longer be your lover, but I am the god of ambition. If you desire my aid, you've only to ask. Minthara: An intriguing proposition. To harness the powers of the heavens as I once harnessed you...

I adore her. 😭 Having a god wrapped around her finger for once is what she deserves.

Minthara without fail encourages every dark impulse a Gale Origin player might have. When he consumes the Shadow Weave within the Thorm kids (is it cannibalism to eat the Weave in a body?), she’s totally gung ho about it in this is the dialogue you get with her:

"Ah, the wizard. I could not help but notice that you have been exploring new avenues of knowledge recently—I approve. … The pursuit of knowledge and power should always be our goal. … Do not let the laws or scruples of inferior minds stand in your way."

She’s all in for seizing the crown too, and it’s amazing. Also, Gale Origins are the only ones who can hug Minthara in the epilogue romanced or not

Also even if they aren't romanced she admits she has affection for him.

She also thinks his beard is dashing. I rest my case:

[svarttrost]

Thank you for the tag, @silver-horse! I love doing these, even if it takes me forever to get around to actually start 😭

I have A LOT of BG3 characters planned and ready, but I'll only do the ones I've actually finished a playthrough with or have an active one with, if we don't want to be here all day 😬

Quick tip, I guess: the background colours I've used for everyone (myself included) are reflecting themselves in some way, be it a favourite color, a personality or background vibe, or something like that. I like colour coding my people 😁

Hello, it's me! Perpetually tired and up in my own head with simultaneously too much and too little imagination, forever a coffee lover.

Meet my first Tav, Saraana. She's a wood elf ranger with a thirst for knowledge (her background is Sage). She is kind and righteous, very straightforward and just as curious. Her love of learning is probably what drew her to Gale the most, and vice versa.

Her preferred weapon is a longbow, so she snipes down targets from a distance and ensnares them to make them easier to take down for her allies.

She's supposed to have faint tattoos on her face, the ones that look like a tree, called "Yggdrasil" in game, but alas, the limitations.

The second Tav I've played is a half-drow warlock of the Great Old One, Thyia, who is supposed to be more gray than blue and have face tattoos, called "Woven Razors", known to have dabbled in criminal activity here and there. She is cautious and calculated, a strong advocate for autonomy, who doesn't shy away from power if it means gaining an edge against her enemies, within reason, of course.

Thyia dove head first into Astarion's advances, seeing right through him all the while, choosing instead to break through his defenses. It worked, and they became nigh inseparable, until she helped him ascend, take all the freedom and power he's ever wanted, and relinquished herself fully to him, bound to him for eternity. This time, choosing to ignore the way his eyes sometimes seemed to look through her, rather that at her.

Our third contestant, called Stiorra, is an Asmodeus tiefling and a bard of College of Lore. She lived in Baldur's Gate as an entertainer until she was plucked up by a nautiloid on her way to a performance. She suffered serious burns while hurtling through Avernus and hasn't been able to get them healed properly, which has left scars on her face. Her preferred instrument is a lyre and she fights with a rapier.

Personality wise, Stiorra is a bright and fun-loving person, with a little bite to her silken tongue, when the situation calls for it.

She quickly builds friendships with everyone around and outside camp, but can be caught paying special attention to Astarion. Being a performer herself, she picks up on his frivolousness hiding something deeper within, and cannot help herself wanting to gently unravel his heart's shackles. While wary and disapproving of her good intentions to help every poor soul they come across, AND having to save her ass from looming death multiple times (she's a squishy bard, it happens), Astarion warms up to her and soon Stiorra becomes the one person he can always confide in, the only one he trusts completely.

Stiorra ends up freeing both Astarion's heart and body and 7000 more spawn from Cazador's shadow and showers him in love every day. And provides midnight snacks for him, too.

This nearly transparent disaster is Opal. She's good with knives and doesn't remember much else. Like what in the Hells happened to her hair, for example. She doesn't really care though, she might just chop it off altogether if it becomes annoying and gets in the way of slashing and maiming and bleeding them dry.

She's heard once before that her eyes are the colour of white opals. She took to calling herself by that name. Opal. It's fitting, she thinks. She doesn't remember the face of the one who used to call her that, too.

She doesn't feel the infernal heat on her skin as she's wading through hordes of imps. Her head, though - her head is on fire. The inside of her skull is red hot and feels like bursting open, but also empty, void of all thoughts but one - KILL.

As one may have guessed, Opal tends to have dark urges, and is also a rogue assassin. She's unusually pale for a drow and has quite a few scars in quite a few places. Opal's memories are fractured to the point where she relies on instinct alone to get through the nautiloid, and her instinct in screaming at her to kill everything in sight. Slicing through bodies feels as effortless as breathing, and she knows it's what she's been doing for years before this.

But then, she hesitates.

Once. The severe unfamiliar sharp eyed creature, who pointed a sword at her throat.

Twice. The young half elf trapped in a pod, shrouded in shadow, pleading for help.

Thrice. The pale elf with piercing blood red eyes, the one who dared draw his own dagger on her.

She should have met their flesh with her steel. She should have reveled in their dying whimpers, crimson flowers blooming on their chests. Shouldn't she have?

She hesitates. She wants to know herself. She wants to know why there is searing hot bloodlust bubbling in the depths of her soul. She figures, she can't go this alone. So she hesitates, again and again.

Aaaand here it is. And I don't know who else to tag as I don't like to impose...😬 So if anyone who sees this wants to do it, go right ahead, and feel free to tag me, I'd love to see what characters you've come up with!

Picrew link.

Artist vs OC

Thank you for the tag @cheekylittlepupp

This is going to be very boring because I tend to create characters who look like me 😔 Me and my main bg3 OC half-drow sorcerer (wild magic) she is basically me if I could do magic:

(My hair isn't actually quite so dark but I couldn't find a matching colour. I also couldn't replicate my OC's slightly grey drow skintone 🤷‍♀️)

My high elf character (during our multiplayer honour mode session with @vspin) and my drow durge character and my high half-elf durge character:

The high-elf is a noble draconic sorcerer with 2 levels in wizard, she is wielding Phalar Aluve. My drow character is also a sorcerer. (Originally storm sorcerer but I changed her to wild magic) They are just named after me lol My high half-elf character is called Thea, she is a very antisocial and she abandoned or killed every companion except Astarion. Nobody is allowed to stay their camp. 💀

I am tagging (if you want to but feel free to ignore) @astarioffmode @svarttrost @tadpole-apocalypse @communistfries @elminsters @mercymaker @cerudinae @charmedcleric @zekeen @astarionancuntnin @drizztdohurtin @utterdrip @oakenshieldbaggins (@a-s-t-a-r-i-o-n ) @ghostfire @florbelles @oddlyotherscience @snowfolly

Link to picrew

[alicelufenia]

Haha no worries, I'm using them myself in my current Tav playthrough. Which ones do you use? I like Party Limit Begone combined with Sit This One Out so I have control over whether I'm keeping a party of 4, or want to split the group into 2 full parties for simultaneously exploring multiple areas. Along with this for emergencies to regroup everyone.

You make an excellent point at not seeing the other options, and I think in practice that's a common thing! I like to joke that raiding the grove is the canon path both because I think it's funny to be wrong about things esp if it's inflammatory, but also cause it makes act 2 even more interesting by positioning Moonrise Towers as your designated Friendly Town, potentially the first place you go rather than requiring the detour to Last Light, which makes rescuing Minthara from the prison even more poignant (more on that later).

But that's just my opinion, no accounting for taste there. And other people in the notes have made excellent arguments for their own playthroughs. Shoutout to @andrewknightley's Resist Durge killing the rest of their companions and being left with just Minthara, who they knocked out in the goblin camp, and are now two former enemies who have lost everything and now have no one but each other. Very good use of enemies to lovers there.

But you're right, between the choice of characterization of the tieflings vs the goblins, and the entire setpieces of the tiefling party vs the goblin party, it's clear the intention of raiding the grove is for the game to sit you down and go "so, you've started down a dark path..." The goblins are actually a weird exception to bg3 in general treating traditionally "evil" races with a degree of respect; we even have two examples of non-evil hobgoblins, Blurg and the refugee in the camp outside Rivington, but the goblins are bog standard Forgotten Realms evil goblins. Extra evil, if you consider they've abandoned Maglubiyet for the Absolute, somehow an even eviler god than The High Chieftain.

I think ultimately, the reason for this is in service to Minthara's story. From the beginning she stands out amongst the rest of the goblin camp. Knowing anything about Drow you would know she doesn't belong here. This is reinforced even more after you sleep with her, where she can share with you that everything that's happened since she came to the surface feels like a dream of someone else's life, except when she was with you. That's part of what makes her sex scene so amazing even after you know for a fact she's been mind controlled. In that moment, she's free, and still chooses you and finds comfort in your arms. All of this culminating in act 2 when the guards torturing her comment that her most damning sin was a desire for affection and acceptance from a mortal.

Much better imo than "An inability to follow orders." Something something You Have Failed Me For The Last Time something something. No wonder people call her a girlfailure if this is what they're used to. She's not a girlfailure! She was a high ranking noble with the authority to command an army and march not just to the surface but HALFWAY ACROSS FAERÛN for purely personal reasons! Seriously look at a map and see how far apart Menzoberranzan and the area between Baldur's Gate and Elturel are on the map, it's like from one end of the Sword Coast to the other! Failing at something once does not make you a girlfailure! Stop it you! (general you)

And I'm glad you asked about the fanfic! My friend @trappedinafantasy37 is writing it, basically an evil Durge run with Minthara as the main protagonist, it begins diverging around chapter 2 while still following the same events.

Anyway, thanks for your replies! Your English is fantastic.

I do agree with Emma Gregory that, while it's nice the knock out method has allowed more people to enjoy Minthara's character, it has the potential to weaken the complexity of her character, especially for those who never experience her full arc (act 1 included) as intended. It also, I think, fundamentally changes the relationship between her and the main player character.

The decision to raid the grove is a deliberately heavy one, and I think there's an irreconcilable difference in the dynamic between Minthara and a player who actively participated in one of the Absolute's atrocities, and that between Minthara and a player who remained morally irreproachable throughout act 1. Raiding the grove leaves you with no moral high ground over Minthara post-mind control, except for what you do going forward.

That's how it worked for my Tav (now a Durge)—she regretted it at the time, but as her bond with Minthara grew she found her confidence in her own Paladin ideals returning, and she sought to not fall into despair or seek atonement, but to carry on doing good despite her fall. Had I skipped that entire dilemma by knocking her out, that bond wouldn't be the same, they wouldn't be struggling with such similar past burdens, and their story would suffer as a result.

As Fray the Dark Knight trainer from Final Fantasy 14 said, "Do not seek forgiveness, for it will not ease the burden. It weighs as it should."

Killing the grove, I think, weighs exactly as it should.