#which is actually more homophobic than anything imo

[thecoolerliauditore]

long post: the neck kisses playlist on joel's spotify is about jimmy (and kind of etho too a little bit)

it's not actually about jimmy it very much is not about jimmy. however I had visions when I listened to it and I know at least one person really wants me to put this into words so

"I Miss Having Sex But At Least I Don't Wanna Die Anymore" is a pretty straightforward song about Awsten Knight's post-break-up life as well as his frustrations with his fanbase.

The feelings post-break-up are described as freeing, hence the title ".. don't wanna die anymore" but the ending of the song hints at some nagging regret despite that, with the desperate repeating mantra of "but I think it's fine, it's cool"

While I don't think all of these songs signify chronology (and some I don't think are literal at all unless c!Joel has some weird daddy issue lore I'm unaware of), I do like to think the start of the playlist calls to pre-3L jimmy/joel, most specifically their relationship in x-life.

In x-life, Joel establishes a totally-not-cult religion he dubs "Jeremyism", Jimmy being his first member after he fails to trick Lizzie into joining. He later gives up his leader title, quote, "for content". Jimmy is unhappy with this development and begs Joel to stay, but Joel refuses. While their relationship in x-life would be hard to define as romantic in any sense, they were clearly fond of eachother before Joel eventually broke away.

Things get a bit hazy here since "for content" doesn't really translate to anything in-universe, but I think it's interesting to note that both the song and Joel mention an audience, specifically one that they feel the need to appease. Whether this is a metaphor or watcher lore or some secret third thing I have no idea but it sure is there 👍

In my mind, it goes like this: Jimmy and Joel meet, they hit it off, Jimmy is affectionate and Joel starts to catch feelings. Joel cuts Jimmy off for making him feel weird.

the second song in the playlist reinforces this, being a much angrier post-break-up song.

While this seems out-of-order (why does the immediate anger come after the song about life after the break-up?), I think it's interesting if you look at it from an angle of this not being fully Joel's feelings towards Jimmy, but Joel's frustration towards himself for messing it up.

with a little bit of frustration being placed on jimmy too:

pictured: joel in third life with a message from jimmy that he very much. does not answer.

personally I like to think Joel held a lot of resentment towards Jimmy in Third Life, both for homophobic reasons (i.e. you made me feel gay and now I'm gonna punish you for it) and for jealousy reasons (start of his number one scott hater arc)

this one's just in the wrong playlist first of all why does he insert this between two waterparks songs. whatever man.

anyway this song's interesting to me because it's literally just about a hot babe getting rejected by some fuck who refuses to be ball-and-chained.

there's two directions this could go imo: one is that this is, once again, evoking joel and jimmy's relationship. Joel acknowledges that he a life with Jimmy would be nice, but he refuses to settle down because it would rob him of his identity/freedom.

the other is that brandy is joel and the sailor is etho, since brandy shows an admiration for the sailor but also an awareness that he loves his job more than her

this storybook like description of how brandy saw the sailor's tales is very smalletho to me idk. very hand-in-hand with joel's child-like view of who etho is.

I don't have much for this one tbh it's pretty much just a love song and Joel really liking waterparks (king)

That being said, there's some fun imagery to play with here:

yellow = jimmy makes a lot of sense (blonde hair, canary imagery, yellow also representing people on their second life in the life series which evokes neither the assumed skillfulness of a late game green name nor the danger of a red name), as does green = joel (the green streak. shrek. yeahg. and while red joel is iconic "green like my insides" could also be read in this context as "deep down, I am safe to be around" which I think is neat)

"natural blue" is a bit harder to interpret (especially considering the original context of this being a joke about Awsten dyeing his hair) but blue is of course scott's colour. this could be read spitefully as Natural blue (was in love with jimmy first) vs scott's dyed hair or it's. joel saying that's he's gay idk man.

"at least I match your eyes" is pretty simple, with both of them having brown eyes, "jealous and hypnotized" once again alluding to some jealousy, likely towards FH again if you believe the blue line is alluding to scott.

however joel has plenty of people to be jealous of in regard to jimmy so. shrugs. hey you can even interpret this line as talking about jimmy's desirability. neat.

there's also this, which again might allude to flower husbands, implying in this fake world I've created that Joel doesn't view them as actually "married"

ok this is getting too long lmao see you guys next time i feel like writing about this stupid fucking playlist again

[mattdevil]

Saw this discussion in the jayvik tag and wanted to wade in:

I think the larger problem with the "Viktor is ace!" "Ace people can still like sex/romance!" discourse is that the Viktor-being-ace bit hit a lot of people, myself included, as a kneejerk reaction from CL to try and kibosh any and all mention of there being ~something more~ between the two. It was treated as a "gotcha" in a way that implies CL doesn't have a good understanding of aspec identities, and I think a lot of people had very strong reactions to that; so in an attempt to counter what feels like bad faith stereotyping, the pendulum gets swung too far back the other direction with the unfortunate side effect of making it seem like everyone participating believes that ALL aspec folks can, or even should, also participate in sexual or romantic relationships. I think if he'd said "hey it's cool you see it that way, our intent was to have V be aroace with no interest in sexual or romantic relationships because that is criminally underrepresented in media" (which is true), there would have been a very different reaction. There were two missing elements: an expression or acknowledgement of deeper understanding of aspec identities, and a willingness to accept that creative intent doesn't somehow trump or disenfranchise how your audience receives it. He missed on both, so now we are here.

Yeah you're totally right.

I agree with the valid criticisms of what Linke did. I don't think he actually knows the difference between asexual and aromantic. Based on what he said, he just asked around about which orientation was underrepresented anyways and he seem to have gone into this with minimal research, which made this maybe well intentioned attempt at ace representation turn into a shitshow. Because I agree with him in viewing Jayvik as a platonic ship gives the dynamic a fresh spin. I believe he actually intended to make Viktor aroace, but it was kind of a shitty move to reveal this as a way of bashing all the other interpretations, which made a lot of people perceive it as homophobic as this was done in response to shippers.

People are also upset with the stereotypical implications Viktor being ace implies, such as making disabled characters ace which makes them seem devoid of sexuality.

That being said, I think a lot of people have lost the plot too because Linke is now being accused with being ableist, homophobic and aphobic a lot more than what's proportional. I've seen people say he only made Viktor asexual because he is disabled and "robotic", because he saw Viktor as undesirable and quite inhuman. These are bullshit takes and people are pulling them out of nowhere imo. I have never seen anything suggesting Linke viewing Viktor's disability as something negative. Calling him a robot is outright wrong too because he got merged with the arcane, he didn't robotise himself like in the games. So none of these really contribute to Viktor's "negative" representation. Also, Linke could very well be homophobic but it kinda doesn't seem quite anormal for creators to talk about the intended details in the show after the show is over, so I don't think he did that reveal at a very odd point. Which now got me wondering aside from giving the homophobic fans the excuse to bash Jayvik shippers, whether we jumped the gun on calling him homophobic too.

I also agree with how the reactions would be a lot better if Linke handled the creative intent speech a lot better, but I'm not sure if it still would've made stop everyone from saying "hey even if he is asexual he can still have sex with Jayce" because this is just what shipping culture is like. As I've talked about it on the previous ask, people LOVE shipping, and they make aspec characters a part of this phenomenon regardless of how their sexual or romantic desires are presented in the source material.

Overall I agree with what you're saying though. Thank you for your insight.

[endiness]

eta 11/8/2024: okay, just fyi, but the user i'm replying to is actually just homophobic/biphobic and they made that comment on my post (and others) because they're actually just mad that lauren and the show made jaskier "gay" (ie bisexual/pansexual.) so their "concern" about how the show's treated jaskier is actually just bullshit and most likely just a tactic to manipulate the fanbase against lauren and the show and to ultimately push bigoted agenda. but with that being said, here's my counterargument to their comment:

the showrunner does not hate jaskier. and just to note considering that this isn't the first time i've seen you leave a comment like this on posts about geralt and jaskier's friendship, or rather the lack thereof as the show did drop the ball on their friendship (in s1 and to a lesser extent s2; s3 resolves this, imo, as does the brief sirens clip):

"All the grunts, I either added or I didn't say anything and just grunted instead. It was often up to the other actors to go, 'I think he's not gonna say anything now.'" — Henry Cavill

"Henry likes to cut his lines, 'cause he's lazy. No, he literally just likes to cut them. He likes to do more up here [frames his face with his hands] and just with face and hmms and grunts. There's a lot of hmms, and so I often have to take a lot of his lines and turn it into a lot of my stuff so that the plot happens." — Joey Batey

"Joey did all the work, I just had to take the right look and… we had a ready-made 'comedy.'" — Henry Cavill

"In the books, they are very, very close friends. That is so obvious. They speak to each other fondly. The opportunity is different in this story because Jaskier turns up and he’s not an immediate player straight away. We sort of had to show that essence of Geralt and Joey playing the complete opposite, which creates a wonderful dynamic. If I were to play it more directly like the books, it wouldn’t quite have the same sense of two fated friends. They’d just be like, “Hey, buddy!” Instead, Geralt cares deeply for Jaskier, whether he wants to admit it or not." — Henry Cavill

"I didn't even cut that much. Just little bits when someone says how they feel, I thought if Geralt says nothing, and maybe the well-known grunts or hmms and sometimes the occasional f-word, people can take from that what they will." — Henry Cavill

"I wanted to make [Geralt's voice] something which carried a lot of weight when you say very little. And I found my natural accent didn't quite portray what I wanted Geralt to portray in those brief moments. Whether it be a grunt or a single word or a couple of words directed at a bard." — Henry Cavill

"Henry tends to cut his lines, say less, which means I have to say more. So I had to improvise quite often." — Joey Batey

yeah, js, but if anyone was responsible for fucking up their friendship in s1, it was likely henry cavill more than anyone else as he would cut his lines especially in scenes with jaskier and to the point where joey often had to take his lines and improvise just in order to move the plot along. plus! by henry cavill's own admission, he didn't want to play them all "hey buddy" with each other which is actually the thing that was severely missing in their friendship in s1 and what was really the problem. because just a reminder to everybody, but the problem with their friendship in s1 was not actually geralt being an asshole to jaskier as there were times in the books where geralt was perfectly capable of being an asshole to dandelion:

the problem with their friendship in s1 was that there was not enough balance to any moments of contention in their friendship and that there weren't enough light-hearted, fun moments with them and that there wasn't enough warmth between them on geralt's side of things and that there was not enough sense and indication given that geralt actually cared about jaskier. which as we've already established was something that was probably greatly inhibited by how henry cavill didn't want to play them with that dynamic in the first place and how it's kind of hard to build up a friendship and not have it come off as extremely one-sided when one half of said friendship won't say his fucking lines.

and at least imo, chances are he's the reason why their friendship still wasn't the best in s2 even with geralt coming off as slightly warmer to jaskier than he did in s1 as henry cavill, basically, didn't want to play geralt with any character flaws in s2. and it's kind of hard to address the mountain and move past it in a way that's satisfying if the show couldn't, y'know, actually acknowledge that there was any wrongdoing on geralt's part given that henry cavill didn't want to play geralt with any flaws. (and just a reminder, but the only reason why geralt was more verbose and emotional in s2 (and s3) wasn't because henry cavill just cared oh so much about the sanctity of the books and the source material. it was because he got dunked on by reddit for cutting geralt's lines in s1 and either saying nothing or just grunting instead thus making geralt's characterization inaccurate to the books. if he had not gotten dragged by reddit for doing that, he never would've advocated for a more verbose and emotional geralt in subsequent seasons in the first place.)

also, js, but i don't exactly think it's a coincidence, either, that geralt and jaskier's friendship only really starts to feel like a friendship in s3 and that there's really a sense that geralt cares about jaskier and that their friendship isn't one-sided when that's the season henry cavill seems to've had the least amount of influence over. nor do i think it's a coincidence that geralt and jaskier also come off as genuinely being friends in the sirens of the deep clip, despite it being set during s1 when their friendship was at its least convincing on the live action show, given that henry cavill wouldn't've been involved in the production of sirens at all and thus wouldn't've had any input on it and given that doug cockle, who voices geralt in sirens, can actually act and emote with voice and despite not even physically being in the scene with his co-star, still manages to have chemistry with him. js.

[spectrum-color]

does robin hobb actually doesn't like fitz and fool together? i'm halfway in the series and seem some people speak abt this

This is a tricky question to answer, because we really don’t know where she stands right now. Bear in mind that this answer will have whole series spoilers so I will put it below the cut.

On one hand, the end of Fools Fate featured the Fool leaving Fitz so he can have a hetero happily ever after with Molly, telling him that he’ll never be able to offer him what she can. When people objected to this because of the buildup of Fitz and the Fools relationship through TM and the resurrection scene in particular, Robin Hobb wrote a very angry blog post. In it, she said that Fitz and the Fool were just like childhood best friends, that portraying their relationship as romantic invalidates Fitz and Molly, and people who didn’t like the ending were just angry that they didn’t have sex. She also railed against fanfic and said some pretty offensive things about how for Fitz to be involved with a man, he would have to be gay and it would cheapen his history with women (apparently bisexuals don’t exist.) This got a lot of backlash needless to say and convinced a lot of older fans that she’s homophobic, which you still hear sometimes.

THAT SAID in Rain Wild Chronicles, she put a gay character at the center and gave him a (honestly terrible imo but it has its supporters) romance. This seemed like a possible apology to fans who were angry about the blog post. In the final trilogy, the Fool returns and it’s a mixed bag. On one hand, she portrays Fitz and Mollys life together as lonely, and Fitz misses the Fool fiercely and lacks any true friends without him. On the other hand, when the Fool does return, he’s been horrifically tortured into insanity, is (mistakenly tbf) stabbed by Fitz, rejected by his daughter, and is generally miserable for the entire trilogy. It felt mean spirited and there are people who have theorized it was motivated by spite towards people who didn’t like the separation. idk if I believe that because it came out at a time when grimdark was very popular in the genre, but it is out there.

As I mentioned earlier, Fitz and Molly’s youngest daughter, Bee, is also the Fools child through magic and his successor as White Prophet, which is pretty loaded. Fitz coming to accept that the Fool is her father too and that they should raise her together is actually a major plot point. Their relationship is also repeatedly shown as being Fitzs priority in this trilogy: he writes the Fool intensely emotional letters that he never sends during his years at Withywoods, he leaves Bee behind to save the Fool and then to care for him when he nearly dies, he passes as a couple with Amber while they’re in Kelsingra and Bingtown.

Most importantly, in the end, when he’s dying and carving his memory stone wolf to go into the Skill stream like Verity did, he chooses the Fool to go with him. Not only that, but Bee tells the Fool that she resented him because she thought that Fitz loved him more than he ever loved anyone else, including her. You could def debate if that’s the truth, but it was very charged, and it was on the last few pages, so it was the endgame. It is all very ambiguous and something she hasn’t spoken on outside of the text of the actual book since the TM era. Personally, I just go by what’s in the text, not anything extraneous Hobb said.

[vanmarkus]

Totally agree with you on the deleted scene feeling kinda "meh". I guess it was supposed to be a moment of lighthearted/funny banter, but it fell a little flat.

I don't know if it was Lou Ferrigno Jr's acting or the script, but he came across a little too... defensive? That's the impression I got at least.

(The way he played dumb a little too long (even when it became very obvious what the conversation was about), the way his comebacks hit a bitchy note more than humorous, the way he walked away from the conversation as soon as he could.)

It didn't come across as lighthearted or funny or anything else specifically, not to me at least. It just felt tense. Maybe it's just me though.

i think it's a little bit of everything tbh but i think it's worth remembering that this scene was just before Ortiz walked up to henren, so it was probably there originally to provide a buffer between Gerrard calling Tommy a slur by omission and henren and their family being threatened...

Tommy has been tense during the entire time aside from like maybe the few minutes while they got their medals... understandably so.

the script pulled the scene along for just a little too long imo (and it was still less than a minute lmao) with too many deflections before giving in, but i just feel like it's kinda justified not wanting to talk about your queer relationship minutes after being confronted by your homophobic ex-boss.

all that being said, there was so clearly no bad blood between any of them, the whole convo was just them joking back and forth, while Tommy was trying to run away from this and probably any other conversation... i think he, personally felt tense but the actual conversation was lighthearted yk?

i mean, not to get all analytical and whatever, but during the scene with Gerrard, Tommy answered his question methodically about when he left the 118 and then clammed right up and stayed silent when Gerrard insinuated that he was a "fairy"

i just think the scene had a purpose but it just didn't work out in the end — which is probably why it was cut. the creators saw that it wasn't working and got rid of it, but knew that the fans would love to see it, so they posted it. it's really not much of a grandiose fandom event imo

i'm glad we got it, but it's not canon since it wasn't in the actual episode and while i understand why everyone wants to read so much into it (on both sides of the fence) it didn't really tell us anything we didn't know already and it just wasn't structured in a way that'd give the scene and the characters a good flow, but ehh what can you do, it is what it is.

[velvetvexations]

RE: Lovecraft's racism

I don't have anything meaningful to add, just some personal anecdotes.

I started reading Lovecraft from some selected works books, and I didn't see any issue for most of it. I didn't know his reputation, and also I am European so race is not something that I am actively aware about (because POC here are extremely rare and mostly are rich tourists and exchange students rather than minorities). Up until he described Inuits as "dwarfish creatures who call themselves Eskimos".

Later I have read complete collections of his works and saw some absolutely horrific racist sentiments, and also now that I am tumblr-level socialist I can see all problematic innuendos in selected works as well, so it's in no way defense of Lovecraft. Just my addition.

P.S.: I also think that people calling Lovecraft exceptionally racist just didn't read a lot of popular USAmerican fiction of the time. Burroughs is IMO worse, or at least more obvious about it.

P.P.S.: There was a popular joke some time ago like "Lovecraft would go insane if he met me" that was made by white neurodivergent queer people, and I feel that it's weirdly tone deaf. We don't know Lovecraft's opinion on homosexuality or transgenderism, at all. He probably was at least somewhat homophobic considering times, but we just can't prove that he wouldn't have changed his mind if presented with science-based arguments, and autism is definitely not what he considered scary mental illnesses. His entire deal was being racist, not just generally bad person.

P.P.P.S. (wow): Also, not enough people talk about him describing political system of Great Race of Yig (or whatever they are called) as "a mix of socialism and fascism"

Actually, we DO know how he felt about queer people!

From a letter to J. Vernon Shea:

I guess it is true that homosexuality is a rare theme for novels—partly because public attention was seldom called to it (except briefly during the Wilde period) until a decade ago, & partly because any literary use of it always incurs the peril of legal censorship. As a matter of fact—although of course I always knew that paederasty was a disgusting custom of many ancient nations—I never heard of homosexuality as an actual instinct till I was over thirty…which beats your record! It is possible, I think that this perversion occurs more frequently in some periods than in others—owing to obscure biological & psychological causes. Decadent ages—when psychology is unsettled—seem to favour it. Of course—in ancient times the extent of the practice of paederasty (as a custom which most simply accepted blindly, without any special inclination) cannot be taken as any measure of the extent of actual psychological perversion. Another thing—many nowadays overlook the fact that there are always distinctly effeminate types which are most distinctly not homosexual. I don’t know how psychology explains them, but we all know the sort of damned sissy who plays with girls & who—when he grows up—is a chronic “cake-eater”, hanging around girls, doting on dances, acquiring certain feminine mannerisms, intonations, & tastes, & yet never having even the slightest perversion of erotic inclinations.

Even worse, from a letter to James F. Morton:

Have you seen that precious sissy that I met in Cleveland? Belknap says he’s hit the big town, and that he’s had some conversation with him. When I saw that marcelled what is it I don’t know whether to kiss it or kill it! It used to sit cross-legged on the floor at Elgin’s and gaze soulfully upward. It didn’t like me and Galpin—too horrid, rough and mannish for it!

The idea that this fucking dweep saw himself as the alpha male in the room is dadgum hilarious.

And yet, R. H. Barlow and Samuel Loveman (again) were gay. Did Lovecraft know? He met the aforementioned "precious sissy" at a gathering Loveman had taken him to. R. H. Barlow wrote a story lost to us called "I Hate Queers" which Lovecraft read that certainly sounds psychologically revealing, but his brief commentary on it really tells us nothing about the content and if it made Barlow's closet more transparent or not.

Derleth said Lovecraft "seemed" to be unaware they were gay, but what the fuck does that asshole know? Lovecraft personally explained the ideas behind his stories to him and he still fucked up the Mythos for decades with his bullshit. On the other hand, Derleth was bisexual himself, and I don't know how Lovecraft couldn't have picked up on it from this letter he sent him:

I can understand your detestation of sex irregularities in life as violations of harmony and I here fully agree with you. I had previously misunderstood you to mean protestation from a basis of morals, and on this basis I would have stood squarely opposed to you. I have known and still know many people who are sexually irregular, both homosexual men and women, and except for three cases out of perhaps 21, I have always found these people highly intellectual, fully aware of what they were doing, and in all cases quite helpless. Speaking perspectively and in the abstract, I could as easily conceive myself entering upon a monogamous homosexual relation as a heterosexual one—though perhaps practice would change that point of view. To quibble about mere words, I should not say that perverts necessarily lived inartistically.

As to if Lovecraft would have accepted scientific evidence in favor of queer validity, maybe. He was becoming a full-blown Actual Communist towards the very end of his life and his racial views, while still preferring to keep cultures separate, had gotten to the point where he believed a Chinese baby raised by White parents would be essentially the same as a White person, which is, uh, technically progress?

[shellxrls]

cast made too many rafebarry jokes last press tour so netflix and the writers straight up just nuked barry right off the show. the cast talking abt potential queer arc is also why every pogue is shoved into straight relationships when there is more chemistry between two characters of the same gender imo.

this is not even exclusive to obx at all, but the way with so many incredibly popular shows, they will dance around queerness in the characters. sometimes leaning into it but almost never fully committing. and like... do i think the writers could give us genuinely good and deep and interesting queer rep? no not particularly. but it'd be nice for obx to not exist in a world where every singe character is heterosexual and no one even knows what being gay is.

im abt to out myself as a stevebucky here but honestly ... i feel like if they tried to do "gay rep" it'd be like marvel pre-endgame where they inadvertently had this crazy ass storyline abt 2 characters whose love and dedication spans decades apart and actual mind erasure that soooo many people where recognizing as The foundational relationship of one of the most relevant og 6 avengers, and they adamantly refused to lean into it at all despite the blatant queer-coding of the characters. instead they had one guy who's on screen for maybe 2 minutes talk about missing his bf/husband - and then this character is never heard of again. [plus SEVERAL more stevebucky atrocities were committed but that's not the point]

like there was soooo much potential there and they fucking squandered it. which (if the obx writers ever let their characters learn the word "gay") is exactly what i think the obx writers and netflix would do. just have a gay character exist in passing and then we never hear from them again so netflix can be like "see! we had one (1) gay!!! you can't be mad now!!!!"

anyway yes im still mad abt stevebucky in the year 2024, but patterns repeat and i am nothing if not a pattern-noticer, AND i can see obx falling down this rabbit hole.

bigots and homophobes die mad every character on obx is fucking gaaaaaaayyyyyy

marvel is the most talented at creating the most queer coded characters ever (some of which have been confirmed queer in comic canon mind u) to send the fandom into a frenzy without confirming anything.

in all honesty nobody hates this show like the fucking pates do. it is only what it is thanks to actor chemistry and character dedication. all the relationships formed and the life we see in the show is solely because the cast is so talented, and they convey what they want (even if it means warping it somehow around a shitty script).

& on that note so many of them desire queer relationships ! hence who is to stop them from imbuing it into their character even if it’s not a confirmation. i believe all the queer chemistry we see is #real and #true because the actors see it too, and who better to know the character than them, even if the show is homophobic and refuses to confirm it in order to conform to bigoted 13 yr olds.

i kinda love seeing it this way too (in which it’s. girly implied thanks to the actors immense emotional dedication to each other), cause like u said if they did put some rep into there on purpose it wld be cringy, unrealistic, and immediately brushed over.

[marengogo]

If it helps some I haven’t seen any bad reactions but most people I follow are western so I’d kind of hope for a non homophobic take. I think the disbelief would come from actually thinking they are dating but someone like DT probably thinks there is something going on. I truly don’t know how people don’t see it though.

They are, imo, being incredibly brave and vulnerable by putting their bond on display like this, and I can’t help but think there was a well thought out reason for it. Maybe it is to allow people to see them, because the enlistment is so huge and left of field for so many ‘fans’. They didn’t have to do the show, didn’t have to even suggest it, but they did and i honestly think there is a very well thought out plan/reason for this on their behalf.

People will simply have to get used to the duo in BTS who out of all the members, their own friends and family, simply couldn’t leave each other behind.

As a queer person I am proud of the men they are, for how they seem to not care (to a point), how people see them. I mean anyone with half a brain can see them. As someone who has always admired people living their lives truth to themselves, other queer artists like Will Young, or George Michael, or Elton John. I’m not saying Jikook should come out at anything other than their own pace or want/need, maybe never. But I know if they ever do, then the real fans will be supportive, me being one of them. I am sure of that.

Thank you Anon,

I truly appreciate this 🙏🏾 still gonna need my hand to be held though 🥹.

I'm sure you and I are not the only once who felt like this was probably what you could call a soft launch?

Regardless, whatever this was, it was honest, pure and harmless and I'd love for people to treat it with the same kindness with which it was made, keeping into considerations ALL POSSIBILITIES:

I'd like for people to think that if this was just a friends trip It Was Great! but if it was more than that, then It Still Was Great!

That's all, that's all I'd like 💜.

Marengo.

[lunar-years]

Ngl when I see ppl shipping Jamie and Dr. O'Sullivan I think they're at least a little homophobic and very straight.

well, i disagree with a blanket accusation of homophobia, but I do think it's an opinion that holds a very ~straight appeal~, definitely, lol.

there are honestly a boat load of reasons i hate it but they boil down to:

i kind of get why people (esp. a segment of the general audience) might be attracted to it because it's soooo something (bad) shows/sitcoms would do. Like, my god is it TRITE. Predictable, formulaic...boring as all hell! Of course he's going to get with the nameless sister who has less than five minutes total of screen time, just for a little added spice and drama, sure. That's what happens in (bad) shows. But luckily for the rest of us, Ted Lasso even at its worst is not that brand of bad, lol.

it's completely baseless? Nothing wrong with a baseless ship i guess, but at the same time...literally why this one? lol. Like, Jamie and Roy's sister share one scene together in which I don't believe they even say anything to one another directly? There is no chemistry, no...anything? The entire premise for the ship seems to be Jamie telling Roy his sister is hot. Which was very clearly intended as a way for Jamie to get under Roy's skin. Nothing about the scene makes me want to see those two dating.

the big proponents of it i've seen (often, definitely not always) seem to fit into one of two categories 1) people who don't really like Jamie and/or are upset Jamie "got in the way" of their ship, and thus want him to be written into a corner that pulls him away from their preferred couple/inherently shuffles up their dynamic. they don't actually care to watch a plot between Jamie & Roy's sister, they just want Jamie firmly categorized as Taken and thus Not Interested in Roy and/or Keeley, and this is a convenient and predictable(y stupid) way to do it. lol.

OR 2) people who DO really like Jamie and in fact really like Roy & Jamie, but in a very "no homo" way, who want to see more of their dynamic and have a way to define/further explore their closeness, whilst also justifying their own enjoyment of it, that's well set apart from "they have homoerotic tension." Jamie & Roy's sister dating holds an appeal because it more explicitly puts their relationship into firm "brotherly" territory. And I unabashedly loathe that for the same reason i loathe "Roy is Jamie's father figure!" ...foremost because no really, they can just be best friends!! Even if you do not want to ship roy-jamie romantically, you do not need to slap different familial labels on them (or put them into random other pairings) to make their relationship "more." Their relationship is already "more"...they are canonically best friends!! idk if I'm explaining this in the best way but the mindset behind it often feels very rooted in ~the nuclear family is the most important relationship a person can achieve~ and thus a need to fit everyone into traditional family roles (and in some cases that PLUS blatant homophobia) and it gives me a personal ick. Ew.

If you want to see quirky jamie & phoebe antics or roy and jamie bickering, Jamie x Roy's sister getting it on is in fact not actually necessary for any of that? (and imo doesn't add anything to anyone's arc) Going back to point one...using that pairing to get there feels TO ME very boring and sitcom cartoony.

(i also obviously dislike it for my personal shippy reasons and must acknowledge my bias. 🫡 Jamie dating his best friend's sister when he clearly has a crush on said best friend is a relationship-based mental low point/cry for help i do not actually want him to go through as my fav character, LOL.)

(disclaimer: people can of course feel differently and are entitled to ship whoever they want without even needing a clear reason or explanation! that's totally valid! i want to reiterate I don't think it's inherently problematic as a ship. I just personally think it's a rotten tomato of a plot point and i'm so beyond glad the show didn't waste time entertaining it.)

[some-of-us-watch-the-sunset-too]

Wait it’s pride month do you think you could do like modern hcs of the boys at a pride parade?

The gang at a pride parade

A/N: i normally don’t like writing modern boys idk but i tried my best here!

Tags: modern!gang, pride parade

Warnings: homophobia is mentioned but is far from a main point

Darry

he would be like the mom that’s so supportive it’s annoying yk? he’d 100% bring like a backpack that’s just full of chocolate, water and fruit and let anyone take what they need

Darry’s just a big mama bear in general imo so he would also just beat any homophobes heads in.

Will hand you a list of secret codes that mean something different. for example if you call him and say idk- “broccoli pizza” that could mean “i need to get out of here” so he’d come get you and the two of you would go for coffee to calm down and then see if you wanted to go back or just go home.

Ponyboy

To be frankly honest i don’t think pride parades would be his thing? it’s very loud and lots of people which i think would make him a little nervous.

just hold his hand while you’re there ok? he’s doing his best even being there and having you beside him all the time will just make him feel slightly more at ease.

He will make sure you have fun even though it’s not really his thing and who knows maybe he’ll warm up to it by the end? i think he likes the idea of it, just not all the people there.

Sodapop

This boy is in his element! he’s probably in some crazy outfit and asked you to give him the most sparkly makeup look ever and he is definitely in the parade.

He’s his normal hyper self, but 10 times worse. he’s running around the place, like a dog that has the zoomies type shit. nobody give him sugar under any circumstances..

Soda is going to make like 17 friends and then invite them all back to the house for another party so be ready for that. also, remind him to hydrate because he will forget.

Dallas

He won’t be in a cool outfit he’ll in his leather jacket and jeans, but maybe you can get him to wear a pin.

He will be kinda uninterested tbh but he will let you drag him around all day. and hey, maybe it’ll grow on him over time you never know.

The only time that he’ll leave your side is if he spots some homophobes, then he’ll start a fight as we know Dallas does so just, keep an eye on him. or don’t and join the fight, whatever works for you 🤷‍♂️

Two-Bit

He’s “there for the drink and only the drink.” is what he tells you but he still gets you to help him pick a nice outfit and paint his nails for him. once you get there the drink becomes his second priority.

Two actually really enjoys himself in the end but he has a habit of wandering off so be careful. He will be flirting with everyone he sees unless you tell him you’re not comfy with that then he’ll stop

He probably brought a disposable camera with him so a few days later he’ll have a picture of all the people he spoke with and all the memories you made

Steve

Was probably dragged along by soda. If you want him to wear something for the occasion you should sneak into his room the night before and decorate one of his sleeveless denim jackets. he gives me the vibe that he’d rather DIY his outfit rather than buy it.

Same as soda he will be 10 times more hyper and he would be showing off his gymnastics talent doing flips off cars and stuff.

He would be similar to dallas though since as soon as he spotted a homophobe he would right there to beat them up. nobody ruins this day for him.

Johnny

I don’t think it’s Johnnys thing to go to a parade so he’d either go but be slightly terrified of everyone or he would let you go with your other friends and stay behind.

if he stayed behind though he’d love to hear everything about your day once you got home. then you two would go to the cinema together.

If you did go together then he’d be a little like Darry, very prepared for anything that could happen and he would make some code word that means “time to go”

[soupbitch-moneybitch]

i am genuinely impressed by what the show has done with izzy this season

i was never like, a Discourse(tm) izzy hater, but i didn't like him bc he was a narc and a weasel, and yet they've managed to make him delightful to watch, and i think it's because they haven't actually given him a traditional redemption arc

a traditional redemption arc, imo, is where a character apologizes and does something narratively that is good enough to counteract their past behavior

izzy has 1. not apologized for jack shit, and 2. has not really done anything all that significant to make up for what he's done

but he's not the antagonist anymore. he's just A Dude whose role is no longer to instigate conflict. the writers haven't taken away or dismissed the harm izzy caused (which is good bc a lot of his behavior had racial and homophobic undertones and it would be an issue to sweep that under the rug), but what they /have/ done is given him depth

izzy was caught up in his idolization of ed/stuck on some toxic masculinity bullshit, AND he has admitted to himself and aloud that this has caused harm to the person he loves and the others around him. this does not eradicate that the past existed

izzy hated (hates?) stede because he was a fruity little guy making his boss/love interest go soft, AND he's learned that maybe that's okay because ed needs that balance, and that maybe the two of them don't need to be enemies. this doesn't mean he and stede are going to be besties; their relationship makes sense for where they're at narratively

izzy sold stede and ed out to the english because he didn't like what ed had become, AND he has learned that he can't own ed (literally or figuratively) and have everything be roses; ed is more nuanced than izzy originally wanted to believe. this doesn't mean that the crew isn't still healing from the results of having to surrender to the english

izzy attached his identity to being blackbeard's first mate, AND he's beginning to find out who he is without him (imagine season one izzy's reaction to seeing a crew member in drag, let alone dressing up himself). this doesn't mean he's suddenly got all his toxic codependency out of his system (he still loves ed, and is in the beginning stages of detaching himself from that web)

izzy was a piece of shit to the crew, AND the crew has grown to appreciate his presence and want him around. their forgiveness doesn't mean they don't think he's still a dick, he's just "their dick"

idk, if they had done a traditional redemption arc i probably would have just continued to dislike him, but because they are fucking masterful at making the characters feel like actual, well-rounded, nuanced people, i'm able to not only accept izzy, but enjoy his scenes

as always, i'm just deeply impressed at how djenkins and the writers and actors etc always manage to subvert expectations. nothing about this show is traditional, and that's what makes it precious because -insert "sometimes things that are expensive traditional are worse" meme-

anyway, i like izzy now, the end

[dragomer]

Why is Sozin outlawing homosexuality in FN a dumb addition? Imo it's dumb because they did for the sake of making him appear more evil and up to that point there were no indications that FN was homophobic iirc.

It's dumb because as a nation based on Imperial Japan and part of a show created in fucking 2005, there was no way the Fire Nation had ever allowed homosexuality to begin with (And the Earth Kingdom wouldn't be any better, it's based on freaking China after all), hell it's even arguable the Gaang would be pretty homophobic themselves, with the possible exception of Aang who'd be confused but a 'live and let live' type. In case some of you don't remember, gay marriage was only legalized in all US states in 2015, a whole fucking decade after the show started.

Same for the same comic telling us the Air Nomads, a nation based on fucking Tibet and Tibetan Monks, who to this day are against homosexuality with even the Dalai Lama speaking against it, who also had complet gender segregation at the temples, being some kind of 'free love' hippie utopians, where nobody bats at an eye at gay stuff or even modern Tumblr gender stuff. Try that in any actual culture the Air Nomads were inspired from or who shares their values, I guarantee you, you're not gonna live long.

It's also dumb because Sozin committed a fucking genocide and yet it's the gay thing that make Korra go 'Oh, what a bad dude!', like holy shit, how badly can you fuck up such a simple concept?

And no, Korra being made Bi / Lesbian once it was safe to do (Which didn't even happen officially in the show proper because the final was still officially sold as 'Korra and Asami are totally doing that as friends') doesn't change anything I said, if anything it just make it more obvious how hard the showrunners toe the line of what's acceptable in that aspect, to the point that to this day, we have yet to see a male Avatar be into another man, because lesbians are way more accepted, sell better and are more easily sneaked into a show than gay men.

Thanks for the ask ^^

[13eyond13]

L For the Headcanon ask meme 7 Travel: What do you think are his favorite places to travel 24: Orientation: I liked how you wrote about Light not being oblivious about being Gay. What do you think was L's relationship with his sexual orientation? 26: Beauty: This is not something that gets associated with L often, so I threw it is as a curveball. Interpret it as you see fit!

L + Favourite places to travel:

I don't really have anything like specific countries in mind for this, but my main thought was that he is sort of a more indoorsy/man-made entertainment kind of tourist rather than a natural beauty tourist whenever he's travelling for fun. I could see him liking going to major cities with lots of interesting museums, theaters, concerts, and exciting thrill-seeking things to do, like skydiving and riding rollercoasters... very much like that one-shot that shows him doing all of those things on a day off by himself, haha:

L + Orientation:

I feel like L is not straight and also has long been aware of that and is casually accepting of it about himself, but in a way where he probably would not announce it outright to anybody unless it blatantly comes up and he has a good reason to mention it. Possibly in a way where he's never even discussed it with anybody else before (if you think of him as somebody who's never been sexually/romantically involved with anybody, which I can see about as readily as I can see him as somebody who's had a bit of experience). I could see him as bi, but gay also works okay for me as well, considering in the manga he never actually really showed sincere attraction to a female character (the anime sort of made him seem more attracted to Misa with a couple added-in little moments than the manga ever did, imo). My main reason for this comes from how suggestive and teasing L can be with his behaviours toward Light at times without ever outright saying anything about himself or his preferences in canon.

This scene is probably the most helpful one to me for deciding how I'd characterize him in a fic about it:

He's getting outright accused of not being straight in a homophobic way because of his suggestive behaviours there, but he doesn't say anything like "I'm not into guys that way" or try to change anybody's mind about thinking of him as possibly not-straight. He kinda just avoids the subject altogether, even when saying he's not doing it because he wants to. I feel like L would also tell people he wasn't straight if he had a reason to do so, but that most of the time he doesn't really see the point in even bringing it up or want to divulge that kind of personal information, and he also just kinda likes to be withholding of information that he feels like people are fishing for from him as well.

L + Beauty:

I think he's somebody who would say he doesn't particularly value physical beauty as much as he does stuff like intelligence and hard work and moral fiber, and would say it's only skin deep or something along those lines, which is part of the reason he puts so little thought or effort into his own appearance. HOWEVER he also is a bit of a prideful stubborn sour grapes character to me too, and I think he likely sometimes avoids focusing on or trying to learn things that he feels he is just not naturally really very good at or would easily be the winner of, and would secretly be a bit embarrassed to be forced to try. Though it might never become a huge priority for him to focus on his own appearance more or anything, I could see him learning to really admire and appreciate different types of beauty more in general if somebody else introduced him to it in a way that interested him and made it seem more important to him. And then I could see him finding ways to surround himself with it more often once he develops more of an eye for it (like, say, has a partner with a good aesthetic sense who can help him decorate his room with a bit more pizzazz).

[headcanon asks]

[horizon-verizon]

I feel like a lot of fans of the show have unfairly internalized all the disrespect that Laenor goes through and he ends up getting way too much hate as a result. Which is disgusting because he’s a Black man and the ONLY gay character in the show. For example, Alicent claims that he was busy “entertaining his young squires” at his sister’s funeral (and basically conflating homosexuality with pedophilia) in the Driftmark episode, and people take that at face value, even though we saw him in deep, deep grief, completely broken, and nearly drowing himself earlier in the very same episode.

Imo a very underrated part of what Laenor has to deal with during this time is that ontop of all of the pressure that is on him, he essentially has to live everyday in the same place as Joffrey’s killer, and can’t do anything about it because Cole is a Kingsguard. His wedding, one of the most disastrous nights of his life. Not only did he have to marry a woman but he had to see the love of his life get violently murdered and the man go off scott free because of the Queen. The same Queen who humiliated him by calling him and his wife and mocking how his children don’t resemble him.

100%, agreed. Part of that is because this show doesn't explore these people's lives and how they interact with each other before the beginning of the war because it already positions the war--the host of spectacles, canon and whatever they will adapt--the thing where they can characterize them all. But fans also tend to not think much about this anti-authoritarian series in its anti-authoritarian-ness either and interrogate the world's effects on its characters for all sort so reasons, so...it's a feed-feed situation.

I already wrote about what I think Laenor and Rhaenyra's relationship could have been HERE, but I have also come to feel that the show still unfairly made Laenor a little less present than his bk!version might have been.

With how the show (stupidly) made Cole a Kingsguard even though he clearly killed one of the groom's family's man (any nobleman, but this makes it worse) under the king's roof (guest rights), we should have witnessed how Laenor deals or not deals with the fact his lover's killer is always so close. We should have seen how this explains why he is so distant w/Rhaenyra and so eager to leave, adding onto how he wants to be a knight and leave on his own instead of making room for the impression that he's just being selfish. I think this would have been a lot more interesting and even with me still thinking this doesn't totally exonerate him, it'd definitely generate more understanding. In the book, Cole also is very homophobic when he says to the green council that they shouldn't allow Rhaenyra to be queen because her sons would inherit Laenor's sexual "perversion", which I think the show sorta used when Alicent made that comment. This could have been expanded and further impressed by including bk1cole's words into the actual show's green council moment. Why not? Because it'd make people uncomfortable? this whole story is about how these people usurped a woman because she was a woman and they wanted power! It's meant to make you uncomfortable and confront these ways people justify their prejudiced power-seeking.

[spopsalt]

https://www.tumblr.com/zhanael/737323861598748672

This person missed the point of the criticisms SPOP has been receiving completely. I haven’t seen one person complain that the world was saved with the power of friendship bc it WASN’T. It was saved by a poorly written rushed abusive romance. In fact, the critics actually wanted to see Adora’s friendships save the day instead of her awful romance with Catra since the show is called She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, despite the princesses barely getting a role. And if there HAD to be a romance, it could’ve been with Glimmer, which would’ve made more narrative sense and sent a better message to kids.

Next, I’m not sure why OP described SPOP as a show with a “pastel color palette about friendship and love and unity” as if these things detract from the bad writing, plus these themes weren’t even handled well. I have no issue with Catra being redeemed and I liked her in seasons 3 and 4. That’s not why the show is being accused of abuse apologism and this isn’t comparable to when Sugar was accused of being a nazi apologist over the SU finale. SPOP was rushed as well (I’m not sure if it got canceled like SU) but Catra’s redemption either should’ve started sooner or the romance should’ve been ditched. SU at least had a much better writing, representation, and messages for kids. It’s funny since imo SU and SPOP are not two sides of the same coin as OP claims. If OP wants shows that are ACTUALLY comparable to SU with “pastel colors, nuanced yet positive and relatable messages about love, fun for kids,” then they should watch MLP and Amphibia instead. Also I haven’t seen one SPOP critic who’s “appalled by anything that is remotely challenging to toxic masculinity” so that’s a load of BS. As for the remaining claims, those may pertain to the SU critics for all I know, but I have yet to see any SPOP critics express such sentiments or behave in such a way. The “hate blogs” for SPOP are really just critical blogs like yours that make valid points rather than “a shit ton of bad faith misinterpretations” and aren’t “tearing [the show] to shreds,” plus the only harassment I’ve seen towards teens over a kid’s show has been from SPOP fans themselves.

This post also included a bunch of nonsense in the tags which I can no longer see since OP recently deactivated their account (in fact the only reason I’m able to share a link to the post is bc someone reblogged it), but they contained more misinterpretations of the criticisms along with slander towards the critics. I’m so sick of SPOP fans continuing to have no critical thinking skills while blindly defending the show and demonizing anyone who dares criticize it. It’s pathetic.

Thanks for the ask! Yeah, the show was saved because of a rushed abusive relationship. The thing is, I wouldn't be half as mad if it wasn't directed towards kids. I don't believe it's intentional, but kids are getting the thought that the way Catra treated Adora is ok because she loved her. Basically the "He bullies you because he likes you!" thing. Instead of actually considering if they have a valid point, they just assume that the critical blogs are just angry homophobic white straight men when a lot of the blogs are queer women like me. Also, yes a pastel color palette makes up for us having to watch a rushed toxic relationship in season 5. It's like spop stans don't realize that their perfect little show can have flaws and anyone who calls them out are homophobic racist. Also from my experience, nobody said the creator romantizes abuse, they are complaining that the show itself does whether it realizes it or not. This show is being marketed to kids and kids will believe that this is ok. That's probably my biggest gripe with the show.

[jewishdainix]

Ok so I think I finally figured it (my opinion) out.

Basically, I think that Robin Hobb not making Fitzloved explicitly canon was not homophobic, but her going against the queer reading of them is.

Because those are two entirely different things.

Fitz and the Fool's relationship being ambiguous is kind of the point. The whole thing is not to be defined by labels (which is also why I think labeling them as strictly platonic or strictly romantic is missing the point. Theyre both and their neither. Theyre their own thing and their own way*).

Leaving the exact nature of their relationship up to interpitation is also fine, in my opinion. Because queer characters don't have to be capital C Canon (Word Of God, explicit confession, etc) for them to be queer, especially if literally everything in the text points to them being queer.

Robin Hobb going against the homoerotic reading of Fitz and the Fool, however, is homophobic. It fits very very neatly into the trend and context of straight people staying in denial about completely obvious queer characters, all while calling queer audiences delusional or not "letting guys just be friends" or anything else someone might say about an obviously accidentally queercoded character or straight up queerbaited character.

I don't actually beleive Robin Hobb is homophobic herself** or went against the homoerotic reading of them for homophobic reasons.

I believe that she saw people (rightfully imo) interpriting what she wrote in a way she didn't intend to - "When I write, I want to tell my story directly to you. I want you to read it exactly as I wrote it." (Robbin Hobb, The Fanfiction Rant) - and had a freakout about it which resulted in something that ended up being homophobic*** when looked at with the context of the trend I mentioned before.

* You might say qpr! I generally agree that their relationship is queer platonic, but (and it could be just me with my semantics) I beleive that the lebel qpr is still a label which would still go against the whole theme of not having a label. Same thing with the Fool's gender (imo), hes not nonbinary/genderfluid but his gender is fluid and out of the binary.

But again, probably more of a semantics thing than anything else (I know about The Conflict of Interpitations from a video essay about The Lion king, but I'm pretty sure it mentions a similar issue to this).

** While I think it's more of an issue of a straight person saying something homophobic wirhout holding homophobic views, as often happens, it does seem like Robin Hobb does have biphobic views. As far as I am aware she asked something along the lines of "why invalidate Fitz being with a woman by making him be with a man". (Which also, interestingly enough, labels the Fool's gender, which still goes against the stuff that happened in your book, Lindholm!).

I wish a had a direct quote here, though. Unfortunately, unlike The Fanfiction Rant I can't find where she wrote her opinions on Fitzloved.

*** And explicitly biphobic