#!txt: the witcher

[endiness]

Debunking misinformation about Netflix's The Witcher (Part 1)

[Part 1] [Part 2] [Part 3] [Part 4] [Part 5] [Part 6] [Part 7]

"Henry Cavill is a massive fan of the books and the games and he quit the show because the writers wouldn't stick to the books and he just cares about the source material so much."

Henry Cavill not only did not know that the books existed when he started pursuing the role of Geralt, but he actually thought that the books were based off of the video games (and he still didn't bother to read them) and he didn't learn that the games were actually based off the books until Lauren told him (even though the first thing in the game credits is that they're based off the books); as of 2021, he as only read the full series once — right before he was cast in 2018; while he has played TW3, he has only played a little of TW2 (and I've never found any evidence that he's played the first game); and he also has not played the DLC for TW3.

Henry Cavill also started heavily pushing the narrative that he's just such a massive fan of the books and how important adhering to the source material is to him during the press for S2 to deflect from how it was due to his acting choices of cutting Geralt's lines and either saying nothing or just grunting instead that Geralt's characterization — who is much more verbose in the books — was book inaccurate in S1:

He also lied about the situation and tried to act like Geralt was never originally written as being verbose and blamed the lack of dialogue on Yennefer and Ciri's prominence, which cannot be true as confirmed by Lauren:

And tried to act like the lines he was cutting weren't that important anyway so it wasn't really a big deal, which also cannot be true as confirmed by Joey:

He also started pushing the narrative that adhering to the source material is so important to him and it's 'tricky' to do that with Lauren's vision, but his definition of "Lauren's vision" is the show being an ensemble piece with Yennefer and Ciri at the forefront (like the books) and the show in general heavily centering around women (like the books):

So the idea of him caring so much about "book accuracy" is, in fact, not accurate to the books at all as his problems were the prominence of women in the show when Ciri is the main character of the main book series, which the show started adapting from S2 onwards (which is when Henry Cavill started to complain about wanting "book accuracy" in the first place), and when women are very prominent, central, key figures in the books and they often drive the plot forwards.

Lastly, S3 was the closest adaption of the books out of all the seasons so far, so the idea that he quit after S3 because the writers just weren't respecting the source material and the show wasn't following the books doesn't make any sense anyway.

"Henry Cavill is the only reason why the show was even close to the source material at all."

I've not only never seen any evidence of this, but if anything, I've seen the exact opposite: Henry Cavill was either directly responsible for or at least contributed in some way to a lot of things that went against the books or didn't happen in them.

As I already pointed out, he cut Geralt's lines in S1 and either said nothing or just grunted instead which is inaccurate to Geralt's characterization in the books. Here's another quote from Joey affirming that:

(Just to note: During the press for S1, he frequently talked about how the games inspired his performance as Geralt — sometimes talking about them even more than the books despite how the show is based off of the books, not the games — and it wasn't until S2 press that he suddenly changed his tune and started talking about how important adhering to the source material ie the books is to him. He also only started advocating for a more book accurate Geralt because he got dunked on by reddit for his book inaccurate performance in S1.)

He didn't want to play Geralt and Jaskier's friendship as directly as in the books and buddy-buddy with each other:

He didn't want to have any kind of conflict in Geralt and Ciri's relationship in S2 — at least on Geralt's side of things:

Nor play Geralt struggling with fatherhood at all — all of which led to the domino effect of Yennefer's betrayal:

Eskel's death (which in itself also led to things like Vesemir trying to create new witchers and Lambert's attitude toward Ciri):

And Voleth Meir being the big bad of the season:

He didn't want Geralt and Triss to even just platonically find comfort in each other in S2 — which is what happens in the books:

He nixed a sex scene between Geralt and Yennefer in S2 because he didn't think it'd be in character of them to have sex after reuniting which, uh, is absolutely in character of them:

While this is an incredibly inconsequential change, given the prevalence of this idea that Henry Cavill is such an ardent defender of the source material ie the books and how much he wanted the show to adhere to them, I do think it's important to note that he pushed for — and got — more signs into the show even though by his own admission that is more of a game thing than a book thing and he got it into the show for the explicit purpose of catering to game stans:

This is also another incredibly inconsequential change, but again, given how prevalent the idea of Henry Cavill pushing for perfect source accuracy is, I do just want to point out that he would wear his armor 24/7 to make it look worn down:

Even though it is canon in the books that Geralt will buy himself brand new clothes, so the idea that Geralt's clothing has to look worn down and can't be brand new is not actually book accurate.

"Lauren wanted to make Roach's death a joke."

Just to address this point specifically, Lauren wanted to make a meta reference about how all of Geralt's horses are named Roach. That in no way, shape, or form means that she wanted to make Roach's death into a joke or even that the scene had to be played comedically. This is what Lauren had to say about the subject and the 'joke' in question (which, js, actually fits the tone of the books more):

And as far as the "Henry Cavill is the only one who cared about the source material and he's the only reason why the show even stuck to the books at all" front goes... Henry Cavill did change the dialogue in this scene to a book quote/reference; however, the quote in question ("Enjoy your last walk across the meadow and through the mist. Be not afraid of her for she is your friend.") is not something that Geralt himself says and the line/scene from the books foreshadows Geralt's ending in them.

So, at least imo — especially taking into account the incredibly high standard the fandom has set for Henry Cavill as the #1 defender of the books — I don't think this change was actually book accurate especially given the narrative significance of that exchange in the books.

[endiness]

Just a friendly reminder that the OP is an alt-right account that made this post to incite the fanbase against Lauren and the show, the headline itself and article is misleading clickbait meant to incite the fanbase against Lauren and the show, and in the original article by Vulture, Lauren states that Henry was annoying because he was bugging her for the role before scripts had even been written yet (Henry Cavill hadn't even read the books when he was doing this, btw) and Henry Cavill himself said he was being annoying.

Also a friendly reminder that Henry Cavill massively over-exaggerated just how much he knew about the series and how much of a fan he was.

He also started pushing the whole narrative about how much he cares about the source material to deflect from how he was responsible for a lot of changes from the books such as how he cut Geralt's lines in S1.

And he started that whole narrative because he was mad that he was co-lead with two women and that the show focuses on women so much.

Tells you everything you need to know about the people making these adaptations.

[endiness]

doug cockle on working with joey on sirens of the deep:

"What I enjoyed about working with them, especially Joey, is he's just such fun. He's got a great sense of comic timing and his Jaskier is just so, so fun. He recorded before I did, so I was able to actually respond to his performance which was really fun. I enjoyed it immensely."

[endiness]

some screencaps of sirens of the deep (via RI)

[lothlaer]

literally all i could think of in that scene

[endiness]

joey on jaskier and radovid's relationship:

"I was very insistent that it was done in a way that was sensitive, that was not in any way kind of representative of bisexual erasure, and done in as romantically as any of the other romantic stories in the canon."

"It’s been really rewarding to see [his love life] told in a very visual way. [We] ensured that these romances are told truthfully — and sensitively and carefully, without resorting to stereotypes… Hopefully we’ve created something that is special, a sapioromantic and sapiosexual [connection] that is as flawed as any other relationship in this show."

[cozyknights]

this is SOOO important to me. you dont understand

[hanzajesthanza]

the witcher, a. sapkowski

the beginning:

geralt: [walks into an inn]

people: “he’s rivian, get his ass”

geralt: [isn’t even rivian]

the ending:

geralt: [walks into rivia]

people: “he’s an elf, get his ass”

geralt: [isn’t even an elf]

[endiness]

he was also allegedly fired from the witcher for being sexist

beau demayo was the writer in question, btw

(demayo is also the one who started the rumor that the writers hate the books to incite the fanbase against them — which he started a week before henry cavill announced he wouldn't be returning to the show, btw)

there's also a bunch of rumors about henry cavill being terrible to work with in general

also just fyi but the whole narrative about him caring so much about the source material is just a pr campaign he ran against lauren, the writers, and the show to deflect from how he was responsible for a lot of changes such as how he would cut geralt's lines

and because he was mad that he was co-lead with two women and that the show centers around women so much

he also massively over-exaggerated how much of a fan he was of the franchise and how much he knew about it too

I used to be like “I can’t believe they recast geralt” then I learned some (alleged but a LOT of alleged) things about henry cavill and yah. no wonder production companies keep dropping him. liam honey ur gonna do great

[vesemirsexual]

mushrooms and salad….in DECEMBER??

[endiness]

not to go off on this again (and because of a bullshit clickbait article from screenrant as if that isn't their entire business model in the first place) but it's still so fucking mindboggling to me just how much henry cavill was able to brainwash people. like, the idea that he was the one that made the show and he was the only good thing about it and the only good casting choice when he was very noticeably the worst actor on the entire show and meanwhile the rest of the cast is extremely talented and easily acted circles around him. not to mention that he has all the charisma of a black hole sucking all of the chemistry out of the room.

and the whole idea that he is some uber fan of the franchise and the only person on the entire show that knows anything about the source material and cares about it which is also always said in conjunction with the idea that he's the one who made the show. when he didn't even know that the books existed, he only read them once after lauren told him about them, he's only played tw3 (and not even the dlc for it), and by his own admission he didn't do any research for the role. and then meanwhile you've got joey who wrote a whole ass song in ~24 hours and showed up in costume with a lute to audition and who's read the entire series at least 3 times as of 2023; therica, whose books are all annotated and she tries to go back and reread the series before each season and even goes on youtube to watch video essays to refresh her memories; cassie, who has a binder full of notes on philippa and her backstory and everything; and many, many other cast members who've done a lot of research into the books and their characters and the universe and the franchise. but somehow henry cavill is the massive superfan. because he said that a lot in interviews. while never actually giving any examples of that beyond, like, having said he played tw3 for a ton of hours. (which, duh, 'cause a playthrough of that game can easily clock in at +100 hours.)

and speaking of the idea that he just cares SO much about the source material and that's why he ragequit the show because the writers weren't following the books closely enough, likE. he is the one who made geralt's characterization book inaccurate in s1 because he would cut his lines and either just say nothing or grunt instead. (and he also gave his scene partners zero indication he was going to do this and just left them hanging and wondering what was going on and if he was actually going to say his lines and put them into the position of having to improvise and take his lines just to move the plot forward.) and the only reason why he suddenly started to advocate for a more book accurate geralt come s2 is because he got dunked on by reddit for his performance in s1. (which he also took virtually no responsibility for whatsoever and just passed all of the blame off onto the writers for HIS acting choices. wait, that's not entirely accurate. he also blamed yennefer and ciri's prominence on geralt's lack of dialogue even though ciri's scenes were the ones that were cut in s1. yennefer's, too, btw.) he also fucked up geralt and jaskier's friendship by cutting his lines in s1 (and imo there is a lot of implication that the things he was cutting in their scenes was actual affirmation on geralt's side of things that he actually cares about jaskier) and by his own admission, he didn't want to play them as being all buddy-buddy with each other. and his refusal to play geralt struggling with fatherhood and with any negative character traits in s2 led to the domino effect of eskel's death (which in itself led to vesemir trying to create new witchers and lambert's harsher attitude toward ciri), yennefer's betrayal, and voleth meir being the big bad of the season. he also cut a sex scene between geralt and yennefer in s2 because he didn't think it would be in character of them to have sex after reuniting (lolwut) and he cut a scene between geralt and triss of even them just platonically finding comfort in each other (that's what happens in the books.) but yeah, HE just cares about the source material SO MUCH. that's why everything he had a hand in went against the books.

(not to mention that the thing he was clashing with lauren over was that he was not the main character (ciri is the main character of the main books, btw) but rather co-lead with two women and he was mad that the show heavily revolves around women (the books heavily revolve around women) instead of men.) (in s2 interviews, he goes on about how important men being three dimensional characters is to him as if women being three dimensional characters on the show somehow means that men can't be. which is ironic of him to say anyway, tbh, considering he didn't want geralt to be a three dimensional character. as three dimensional characters have flaws. and he didn't want geralt to have any.) (oh, and just to mention but when talking about how violent men can be three dimensional and caring, henry cavill lists who men can be caring towards: other men, family, children. weird he doesn't mention women at all. i'm sure that's not an indication of anything especially when it's said by someone who's a self-professed nerd, lorebuff, redditor, and gamer. because they're always known for non-rancid takes about women. especially when they've already gotten flack for their "i'm afraid to flirt because i'll be accused of being a rapist" #metoo takes. 💅)

(also, just with the conspiracy theory that henry cavill ragequit the show because it wasn't following the books closely enough. like, that is just a conspiracy theory though. the only "proof" there ever was of it was henry cavill going on about how important adhering to the source material is to him. except everything he had a hand in went against the books, so that can't be true. and the thing he and lauren were clashing over was how he was not the main character (geralt is not the main character) and the prominence of women in the series (the women in the books drive the plot forward in massive ways). so that can't be true. and s3 was the closest adaption of the books anyway, so yeah. that really can't be true. and the only other thing that's "proof" is the rumor that the writers hate the source material. which was started by henry cavill's buddy, a writer who was fired from the show for allegedly being emotionally, physically, and sexually abusive. so i'm sure his word is totally trustworthy and he wouldn't have a vested interest in lying and creating a rumor to incite the fanbase against his former co-workers whom he was allegedly fired for mistreating in the first place. (btw, witin the past year, the same writer was fired again for allegedly the same kind of reasons.) also, i'm sure it's jut a coincidence how that rumor, which was started by henry cavill's friend, to disparage the show and the writers dropped about a week before henry cavill announced he was no longer going to be on the show. like, it definitely couldn't've been a coordinated effort between them or anything.) (psst, the rumor that hc was fired for being sexist actually has the most evidence supporting it. js.)

[durgewyll]

[immren]

the game awards didnt do anything for me this year (i did not play nor care about any of the goty nominees) but i cheered and clapped my hands when wukong didnt win

[andillwriteyouatragedy]

does anyone else have like. seasonal fandoms. like. the fandoms you get back into as a certain season comes. do you know what i mean

[lothlaer]

i end every season and probably episode of this show just thinking. the witcher netflix is about women. the witcher netflix? it's about women. have you heard, that the witcher netflix is about w

[endiness]

the triss/geralt stuff was cut due to him as confirmed by lauren:

"The thing that was important to me, which we took directly from the books, is that Triss asks Geralt to spend the night with her and, in the books, he actually says yes once she says just basically lay with me, nothing is going to happen. Henry felt very, very strongly that when we were playing this scene he still believed that his one true love, Yennefer of Vengerberg, was dead. He was still mourning her. So he didn't actually want to go that extra step and have them have any intimacy whatsoever."

and he also had at least some hand in fucking up geralt and jaskier's friendship too:

"In the books, they are very, very close friends. That is so obvious. They speak to each other fondly. The opportunity is different in this story because Jaskier turns up and he’s not an immediate player straight away. We sort of had to show that essence of Geralt and Joey playing the complete opposite, which creates a wonderful dynamic. If I were to play it more directly like the books, it wouldn’t quite have the same sense of two fated friends. They’d just be like, “Hey, buddy!” Instead, Geralt cares deeply for Jaskier, whether he wants to admit it or not."

Endiness made a beautiful long post with all his quotes on that topic that I think is very informative and worth looking at, so here’s a link to that. And with that already discussed, I thought I’d make a thread of all his changes that we are aware of, because when you look into them, you find that none of his “book accurate” changes are actually book accurate. 

His decision to make Geralt grunt and cut his lines.

HC: "All the grunts, I either added or I didn't say anything and just grunted instead. It was often up to the other actors to go, 'I think he's not gonna say anything now.'"

JB: "Henry likes to cut his lines, 'cause he's lazy. No, he literally just likes to cut them. He likes to do more up here [frames his face with his hands] and just with face and hmms and grunts. There's a lot of hmms, and so I often have to take a lot of his lines and turn it into a lot of my stuff so that the plot happens."

So, as everyone who has read the books knows that Geralt is and always has been a yapper. Gerakt often talks or thinks in monologues, and definitely not in short grunts.

Of course when the audience started making fun of Geralt for not being able to speak in full sentences Henry promptly went back on admitting the blame and instead said that the big bad writers were the ones who didn't give him lines, and now it was his life’s mission to fight for a book accurate Geralt who speaks. 

Roach’s death scene

After S2 came out, Lauren received a lot of backlash for Roach’s death scene, with multiple sources citing that she wanted the moment to be more “comedic” before the brave Henry Cavill stepped in and refused to participate in such horrible anti source material activities.

LH: "Henry was so unhappy with the line. Finally I said, 'You know what, you come up with something. I trust you, you know this material so well, you know the book so well, you don't even have to pitch it to me.' And he came back the next day with a beautiful speech that's at the end of 'Sword of Destiny' when Geralt is facing death.”

This is the line he ended up using:

“Enjoy your last walk across the meadow and through the mist. Be not afraid of her for she is your friend."

This was Lauren’s response AND the original line.

LH: “Here's what was scripted, in homage of the fact that a previous Roach had existed, and another one will exist soon. It's hardly a joke. Henry wanted a longer, more emotional moment, which I was more than happy to give him. Don't create drama where none exists.”

So in S2 Geralt ends up quoting a part of his monologue from ‘Sword of Destiny’ when he’s at his lowest after thinking that Yennefer had died at the battle of Sodden Hill, and he has nothing left to live for. Which to me doesn't work that well with Roach at all. That line was a response to Geralt thinking he's lost the love of his life, not his horse. In my opinion, the original line Lauren penned out is more heartfelt and actually more emotional and more book accurate as well.

The absolute removal of any Triss and Geralt “romance”

This one we don’t have that much information on in comparison to others. But there were multiple reports that at the beginning of S2 Triss and Geralt were supposed to have some kind of a romantic scene with each other which then was cut during production, and it was largely speculated that it was due to Henry Cavill. 

“Several months ago we reported on a sex scene happening between Geralt and Triss, sometime in the first half of Season 2. That didn’t happen, as we all saw, but here’s what we know about the original plan for that: Geralt and Triss are in a room together, they seem friendly at first. They are playing some kind of weird game. Whoever wins a round, gets to ask a question. We’re not privy to the exact flow of the conversation, but it eventually leads to both of them ending up in bed. We can only guess why this was cut, but perhaps it was thanks to Henry Cavill.”

Now, irrelevantly on your feelings on book Triss and Geralt you have to admit that that short-lived “romance” is indeed a part of the books and therefor book accurate. So the removal of it would go against Mr I’m fighting to make this show as much book accurate as possible. 

The removal of the Yen and Geralt sex scene in S2

"We just wanted to be very careful that it was true and real, and it didn't turn into something that we, as actors, didn't believe it should be," Cavill stated. When Yennefer and Geralt unite, they embrace, but it doesn't go further than that. He continued: "We wanted it to be emotional rather than sexual. It was really, really important, and we had to lean away from what was originally on the page." Initially, Geralt and Yennefer were written to have a more passionate night. Henry Cavill and Anya Chalotra went to "The Witcher" producers and explained why they thought a steamy evening was not the way to go. "These are people who believe one thing about the fate of another and then find out something else is true," Cavill said about Geralt believing Yennefer was dead. "That's not how they behave," the actor added. "How they behave is they just want to be with the person and emotionally recognize their existence again in that shared space.”

This one is a bit tricky because I am willing to get behind an actor who doesn't want to do a sex scene out of comfort reasons or whatnot, but Henry saying that "That's not how [Yennefer and Geralt] behave”, is quite absurd in my opinion. Because that is very much how Geralt and Yennefer behave, especially in the short stories and ToC. They are inherently a very sexual couple who come crashing in and out of each other’s lives while having very passionate sex. But I can understand wanting this scene to be more “emotional” (as if sex isn't emotional), so this one I am willing to give him a bit more leeway on. (But then again looking at the blinds saying that he refused any sex scenes because oh his “ideals” and was allegedly really nasty to Anya about it, well..)

Geralt being the perfect father figure to Ciri with no flaws and no struggles (which inevitably snowballed into the Yen Betrayal Arc)

This one I don’t see talked that much at all, and to me this one is his most detrimental one. 

@LHissrich: “In interviews, Henry explains how he felt strongly that Geralt NOT be bumbling, nor a struggling father figure. In fact, a lot of S2 is about how Geralt does come from a loving (albeit unconventional) family. Henry was passionate about this shift, and we discussed it a lot, and ultimately thought it was wonderful for his character development. But it also had the domino effect of changing what Ciri needed from Yen when she entered the picture. Thus, introducing the idea of balance.”

So I don’t know about you, but I love when characters have flaws and naturally progress be it for good or bad, some would say that that's what story telling is about, well that someone wouldn't be Henry Cavil. Geralt being a struggling father figure at first, someone who makes mistakes and learns from them and tries is very much a prominent theme in Blood of Elves and is actually very real, people make mistakes! Especially in huge shifts such as “becoming a father overnight’ but we didn't get that because Henry refused to play it that way. What we got is Geralt who already basically knows exactly how to parent, he always knows what to say, what pep talk to give and also doesn't hold any resentment and any negative feelings towards Vesemir at all. It's all one dimensional happy family here! Which goes against not only the books but what he preached about fighting tooth and nail to make the “forgotten” male characters three-dimensional as well because the horrible feminist Lauren only thinks about female characters. 

Lauren then goes on saying that “it also had the domino effect of changing what Ciri needed from Yen when she entered the picture. Thus, introducing the idea of balance” So, it is fair to speculate that Henry’s refusal to showcase Geralt having any flaws at all and act book accurate snowballed into The Controversial Yennefer Betrayal Arc. 

These are the ones that I can remember off the top off my head, so there might be more, there’s probably more that we aren’t even aware of. I think putting them all together showcase a very interesting picture. One of Henry Cavill never actually understanding who Geralt fundamentally is as a character, and of him not being a team player at all. I just hope that more and more people are aware of the insane PR his team did for him when it came to this show, and that more people are able to see through it.