#when you say he did nothing wrong you literally erase his character development

[netflixnormalthings]

when people say steve did nothing wrong i go a little more crazy each time because i dunno man between the slutshaming and then calling johnathan a slur/implying he killed his own brother and uhhhh interesting ways of handling his relationship with nancy...

[4filen0tfound4]

hey can you do a character analysis/comparison on zonic and shard to find out what silver likes in his men

Cries. They’re both stupid guys who piss her off idk. Real analysis tho

Ok Ok so Shard and Zonic have completely different origins. One was created purely to cause chaos and the other was created purely for order and stability.

However, they’re both Sonic. Yet how they view that is also entirely different. Ever since Shard was just “Metal Sonic” his entire purpose was not only to live up to him (power wise), but to best him. After he was rebuilt, he wanted nothing more but to live up to Sonic. Sure he could match with him power wise, but he couldn’t just copy and paste his exact personality and friend groups. I think his entire arc was him becoming his own person and realizing he’s more than just Metal or Sonic. With Zonic, he knows he’s just like Sonic, and even believes that he can beat him if he really needed to. Due to his origins, he feels superior to Sonic, while Shard looks down on his origins as it’s the exact cause of his insecurities. I believe, despite these differences, their core values and personalities are very similar. Zonic puts up this serious front for the sake of a mission, but it barely lasts that long. They’re both so. GOOFY. They make terrible puns nobody laughs at besides themselves and can act cheeky if they believe they’re better than whoever they’re being cheeky with. They’re also quick to act. Like a pathetic wet cat. The moment their insecurities are exposed and if there’s a doubt in their mind they fumble. I think it affects Zonic more than Shard, because he’s so used to being so sure of himself that if something goes wrong, it messes him up like crazy. Thissss is what also affects how they interact with Sonic. Despite his superiority complex, Zonic is really dependent on Sonic. This can stem off of his own fears that are now eased when he works along Sonic, or just the fact that Sonic is from the Prime Zone and without Sonic there’s literally no. Purpose for him. No matter what, Sonic is the OG and Zonic is the copy. His entire world is structured after Sonic’s and made to protect and defend Sonic’s. Shard has the exact same dilemma concerning Sonic, but it’s now taken from a more personal level (which I rlly enjoy and makes the comparison more fun) His interactions after he was rebuilt started out tense, but through the development of friendship and his displays of kindness, he was able to become Sonic’s friend. I’m not gonna say Zonic and Sonic didn’t develop a friendship bc they definitely did, but Sonic put trust in Zonic *after* Zonic revealed he was him. It was more like a “I have to trust you bc you are me even tho I can’t always agree with you” then develop a friendship rather than “You have to earn my trust because I never had any for you in the first place” like it was for Shard

BUT WHATEVER WHO CARES AB SONIC LETS TALK AB SILVER !!! Shard and Silver had more of a one sided enemy thing going on. Silver wasn’t there to make friends, but ended up making friends anyway because idk this is sonic the hedgehog. They were very. Brash and rude to each other, but Shard was clearly having fun teasing and messing with Silv while Silv was debating on killing him like half the time (I’m getting lazy just reread the wiki page like the rest of us) Because Zonic fucking DIED and every zone was erased besides the prime zone (which was a fucking LIE bc of the silver age and like several other issues but whatever) Silv and Zonic never interacted howeverrrr it’s easy to predict how they’ll interact. Silv, unless told that he could trust him in the beginning and that they need to work together, would be hostile and probably bite him ngl. Zonic, esp after the Silver Age, would probably arrest Silver. This would cause Silver to be on edge and they would probably fight a lot. Zonic would win but not rlly bc Silver doesn’t stop fighting that’s like his thing. I still think that although their fights would like strain their relationship, they would end up becoming allies due to having a similar goal and a similar way to attain it. Also thank god Silver is finally partnered with someone who wouldn’t blink if told he needs to kill someone in order to maintain order. They both have the same job and morals, so if they ever got over their differences then they would probably make a good team. So um TLDR Silver likes guys that he hates and finds annoying and only get in her way, only to find out it’s a good kind of annoying and they can rlly be her friends. They’re just like me fr

[shipsawayandusuallygay]

I couldn't disagree more with this take on Baby!Jack being abliest or supporting cishet tropes as an actual autistic queer who has ONLY been in relationships with queer and non cis people for the last 30 years.

Baby!Jack only erases his personality if the writer choose to not write them like Jack. To think you can't convey character non verbally is ablest, disregards him being a nephilim & assumes he would be devoid of personality as a child which is ridiculous.

It's been stated in canon that Jack purposely choose the appearance of not a child for his safety and because according to him that's what his mother thought was needed. It was a a need, not a want forced on him by circumstances out of his control. Again talk about not having his own agency. Like Dean he was forced to grow up too quickly; for Dean it started at 4, for Jack it was at birth. Name me one child especially an older teen who doesn't hate being called a child or treated as one? Of course he's not going to like it when his parental figures point out that his a child both in his human emotional development and in his angel powered development. Yes he is part angel but he is also human. If he truly was an adult he would have the emotional maturity of one.

The next one about it's wrong cause he has what some people say are ND traits wtf...first of all neurodivergent people are not "child like", that's a label put on them by neurotypicals. Being non verbal knows no age, interacting in different ways to stimulus knows no age. It is ableism that labels those behaviours as "child like" & tries to infantalize autistic and ND people. The canon for Jack is he literally didn't have certain knowledge of humanity when he was born because he was a newborn which had be taught to him and he learned it just like how neurotypical child do. Nothing to do with being neurodivergent.

Ok what the fuck, assuming domestic Destiel is automatically hetero and nuclear family conforming? Guess what Queer families are queer when the people in them are queer. period. It's pretty damn homophobic to think that if two people of the same gender are together they magically start acting like some patriarchal cishet fantasy. And the assumption that if a man is FEMME or feminine that he is suddenly the wife is sexist, homophobic, misogynistic and an incredibly ignorant understanding of queer relationships.

Again I have to ask do these folks making these claims have the lived experience of being in queer marriages like mine of 20 years, of the experiences of being autistic (diagnosed 48 years ago as a toddler) because the assumptions and justifications they are making as so far off.

Now personally sometimes I like baby!Jack and sometimes I don't but it's usually based on the story. I personally wish the ending of SPN had Jack not becoming God but being safe enough to get to actually experience life as a nephilim child which means being 3 and aging like any other nephilim before him did. I think him being an adult was forced on him & just like Dean, Sam & Cas had their lives controlled I think he deserved to experience life including being a child. In a just world his mom would be alive too and co-parenting with Cas and his husband Dean. I think he would still be Jack with Jack's likes and unlikes and core personality.

take your pick!

[bunny-rambles]

Some thoughts of the quest ;

if you thought scaramouche should’ve stayed as a harbinger and have no development, and think the character has been ‘destroyed’ because of his development and the writing in the quest, idk what to tell you it just kind of feels like you don’t get him at all.

Wouldn’t you want to erase your evil doings from a mistake you made, if you could? Mf has been manipulated and abused all because of the harbingers. Of course he wanted to erase his past and his connection to them, he had absolutely nothing to lose, and certainly nothing to gain.

And the ‘nice’ scara, I actually think that was a part of him he thought was long dead. I think that was who we know to be as Kunikuzushi. That was who he was before his betrayals. He’s literally always been described as innocent, sweet and kind before he turned into a villain. How anyone calls this ‘destroying’ his character is ridiculous, when it’s always been apart of him.

He returns to himself afterwards too, albeit a little less harsh because really, he has no problems with us. He never has. As a harbinger, it was simply just his job to antagonise us because we’re the ‘good guys’. But personally? He’s never held a grudge because we’ve never done anything to harm him specifically, apart from our fight with him as a ‘god.’ So yeah, it’s kind of obvious that he wasn’t going to be as ‘mean’ as he usually is, why would he when we both protected and helped him?

And even he himself sees relationships as transactions - ‘you do something for me, I’ll do something for you.’ Because it’s all he’s known. Even Niwa, despite being the kindest to him, got him to work as a weapon maker, it was still a transaction of sorts. The little boy promised to be his family, and scara repaid by keeping the same promise, they both did something for each other - a transaction. He feels indebted to us because of his view on human relationships. He needs to be useful so he has worth, and he’s always been that way.

So saying it destroyed his character is, sorry to be blunt, fucking mindless and wrong. You don’t have to like the choices they made in the story, but thinking this was a character assassination of some sort because of the way things played out is beyond stupid.

Twitter is just genuinely full of people who are brainless and only simp for ‘evil’ characters because they’re hot or degrading, but fail to see anything other than their perceived view of a character.

Again - You don’t have to agree with how the story played out, I have my problems with it too, but it just makes me roll my eyes hearing all this complaining when this is, at worst, a ‘mid’ quest, and not the shitshow we got for inazumas ending.

Now, as for people worrying about the consequences of this - dw, I’m in the same point. I don’t know how this is going to play out and my thoughts are so mixed about Kazuha not remembering what happened at the festival because the history changed. Or maybe he remembers it, just without scara? I’m not sure honestly.

But one more thing - this didn’t destroy Kazuha’s development from the festival. Think about it. Kazuha forgives Sara for killing his friend, forgives raiden for all that’s happened, and accepts the past. He’s always been this way. He’s not one to hold a grudge, and he wants to move on from his past. Even if he still remembered scara, I don’t think it’d change much. Him forgetting scara and just remembering the events but slightly differently really doesn’t change his development- because that development happened way before that festival.

I think I’m done, I’m tired and very sick (and honestly I should stay off twitter bc why was I expecting anything positive from that cesspool of an app) so Goodnight

And remember, you’re completely within your right to disagree, doesn’t make your opinion any less valid than mine. I just think it’s really dumb to disregard facts when making claims like it destroyed scara’s character. That’s all;;;

[latuuart]

Dabi was Once an Abused Child & Enji was Once an Abuser

The main reason why some people refuse to see Dabi as once an abused child, and keep deeming him insane or evil since he was born, is undoubtedly because his abuser was Enji who is trying to change now.

Shigaraki and Toga are villains who were also once abused when they were children (in Shigaraki's case, he is still used by AFO till now). Fortunately, people generally aren't very keen on refusing to admit Shigaraki was groomed by AFO or was abused when he was a child. People usually have no hard time calling AFO or Kotaro an abuser and don't use excuses like AFO giving lil' Tenko a hug, Kotaro only slapping Tenko twice, or Kotaro not being harsh to his wife, to back them up. People also do not really deny Toga was neglected by her parents.

Matter-of-factly, neglect is one of the things Enji did to his children. The difference is Enji neglected Touya, Fuyumi, and Natsuo inside a luxurious house, provided them clothes and food. Other than that, quoting Natsuo's words, Enji was just like a complete stranger to his children.

How about physical abuse? Ironically, there are people who genuinely consider the things Enji had done to his family as not abuse. They think since Enji was hitting Shouto and Rei "rarely", then it wasn't abuse. Another common misunderstanding (or excuse) is since Enji was doing more of mental abuse to his family and "rarely" did physical abuse, then he wasn't abusive. In all honesty, what kind of conclusion is that?

Does Hori need to show us Enji hitting Rei 10 times for us to admit Rei was not only mentally but also physically abused by her husband? Does Hori need to draw a graphic image describing how Shouto could puke when Enji was "only training him" for us to include it as a physical abuse as well?

Ever consider if mental/psychological abuse is not part of abuse why it has word "abuse" in it? Mental abuse is included in the types of abuse too, though.

In addition, if child neglect is not part of child abuse then why WHO, APSAC, APA (American Psychological Association), and many others indicate it as a form of child abuse/maltreatment as well?

Someone who performs any type of abuse is called an abuser. Abuser is an example of a noun ending in -er. The ending -er is added to verbs to make nouns with the meaning ‘a person or thing that does something’, for example: builder, farmer, or sprinkler. Thus, since Enji was doing abuse so he was called an abuser, or in present settings, he is an ex-abuser. There is literally nothing wrong in calling Enji an ex-abuser or saying he was abusive. Getting mad or defensive when people calling Enji an ex-abuser or once abusive is overly ridiculous to me.

Dabi was once an abused child. Touya was neglected just like Fuyumi and Natsuo. Among the main trio villains or the Todoroki children, it seems like Dabi/Touya is the one denied the most (if not the only one) of his status as once an abused and innocent child. Tragically, encountering people deeming Touya was insane since he was born or calling him an evil manipulative child is not rare nowadays. Yet, almost no one calls Tenko an insane and evil child, considering both Touya and Tenko ended up as villains today. Tenko and Touya both were hurt and traumatized children. It is weird when people are able to symphatize with Tenko but not with Touya, forgetting Touya was engulfed brutally in broad-scale wildfire and his body was horrifically consumed by scorching fire; a 13-years-old boy almost died.

Why do people react to Tenko's story and Touya's so differently? Well, Touya/Dabi's abuser is trying to change now, isn't he? Now, let's think. If, for example, AFO wins the fight with Deku in the future, then he suddenly has a change of heart and wants to try to be a better person, would you say Shigaraki was never groomed by him before? Or, if Hawks's father some time later is released from the prison and wants to try to change to be a good father to Hawks then, would you say Keigo was never abused in the first place?

No matter happens to an abuser now, whether he's trying to change or not, it will not change the facts that the past still exists, the abuse still happened, and his victims will still be the victims. It is ironic to watch people doing it easier to label Rei as an abuser than Enji. Shifting the blame to someone else who was also one of Enji's abuse victims is not making his character any better. Refusing to admit Shouto, Touya, Fuyumi, and Natsuo were once children abused by Enji is not making his character any better either.

Truthfully, because of the past can't be erased, that's why Enji is trying to make amend to that in the present. Enji is in the process of trying to atone for his abusive self. If we are to erase and downplay his abuse, shift the blame to someone else, and refuse to acknowledge whom his victims were, then what is character development that he's going through all this time for?

[itsclydebitches]

I keep seeing people calling Good Omens queer bating and a I can't help but ask why? I read the Aziraphale/Crowley relationship threw an Ace lens and they are clearly as close to married as they are probably going to get without stepping on holy ground.... and they love each other... why is it considered queer bating?

Personally, I think it's mostly young queer fans turning legitimate grievances on the wrong target. A case of getting so fed up with queerbaiting in media as a whole that they're instinctually lashing out at anything that seems to resembles it on the surface, without taking the time to consider whether this is, in fact, the thing they're mad at. Good Omens is a scapegoat, if you will. The equivalent of snapping at your partner after a long day. Your friend was an asshole, your boss was an asshole, the guy in traffic was an asshole, and then you come home to your partner who says something teasing and you take it as another asshole comment because you've just been surrounded by assholeness all day, to the point where your brain is primed to see an attack. Your partner wasn't actually an asshole, but by this point you're (understandably) too on guard to realize that. Unless someone sits you down and kindly reminds you of the difference between playful teasing and a legitimate insult - the nuance, if you will - your hackles are just gonna stay up and you'll leave the room, off to phone a different friend to tell them all about how your partner was definitely an asshole to you.

Only in this case, that "friend" is a fan on social media doing think pieces on the supposed queerbaiting of Good Omens, spreading that idea to a) people who aren't familiar with the show themselves and b) those who, like that original fan, have come to expect queerbaiting and thus aren't inclined to question the latest story with that mark leveled against it. Because on the surface Good Omens can look a lot like queerbaiting. Here are two queer coded characters who clearly love each other, but don't say "I love you," don't kiss, don't "prove" that love in a particular way. So Gaiman is just leading everyone on, right?

Well... no. This is where the nuance comes in, the thing that many fans aren't interested in grappling with (because, like it or not, media is not made up of black and white categories; queerbaited and not-queerbaited. Supernatural's finale is proof enough of that...) I won't delve into the most detailed explanation here, but suffice to say:

Gaiman has straight up said it's a love story. He's just not giving them concrete labels like "gay" or "bi" or "asexual," etc. because they are literally not human. Gaiman has subscribed to an inclusive viewpoint in an era where fans are desperate for unambiguous rep that homophobes cannot possibly deny. The freedom to prioritize any interpretation - yes, including a "just friends" interpretation - now, in 2021, feels like a cop-out. However, in this case it's an act of world building (they are an angel and a demon, not bound by human understanding of identity) meeting a genuine desire to make these characters relatable to the entire queer community, not just particular subsets. Gaiman has said they can be whatever we want because the gender, sexuality, and romantic attraction of an angel and a demon is totally up for debate! However, some fans have interpreted that as a dismissal of canonical queerness; the idea that fans can pretend they're whatever they want... but it's definitely not canon. It is though. Them being queer is 100% canon, it's just up to us to decide what kind of queer they are. This isn't Gaiman stringing audiences along, it's him opening the relationship up to all queer possibilities.

We know he's not stringing us along (queerbaiting) because up until just a few days ago season two didn't exist. Queerbaiting is a deliberate strategy to maintain an audience. A miniseries does not need to maintain its audience. You binge it in one go and you're done, no coming back next year required. The announcement for season two doesn't erase that context for season one. No one knew there would be more content and thus the idea that they would implement a strategy designed to keep viewers hooked due to the hope for a queer relationship (with no intent to follow through) is... silly.

In addition, this interpretive, queer relationship between Crowley and Aziraphale existed in the book thirty years ago. Many fans are not considering the difference between creating a totally new story in 2019 and faithfully adapting a story from 1990 in 2019. Good Omens as representation meant something very different back then and that absolutely impacts how we see its adaptation onto the small screen. To put this into perspective, Rowling made HUGE waves when she revealed that she "thought of" Dumbledore as gay in an interview... in 2007. Compare that to the intense coding 17 years before. Gaiman was - and still is - pushing boundaries.

Which includes being an established ally, particularly in his comics. Queerbaiting isn't just the act of a single work, but the way an author approaches their work. Gaiman does not (to my knowledge) have that mark against him and even if he did, he's done enough other work to offset that.

Finally, we've got other, practical issues like: how do you represent asexuality on the screen? How do you show an absence of something? Yeah, one or both of them could claim that label in the show, outright saying, "I'm asexual," but again, Gaimain isn't looking to box his mythological figures into a single identity. So if we want that rep... we have to grapple with the fact that this is one option for what it looks like.

Even if he did want to narrow the representation down to just a few identities for the show, should Gaiman really be making those major changes when he's only one half of the author team? Pratchett has, sadly, passed on and thus obviously has no say in whether his characters undergo such revisions. Even if fans hate every other argument, they should understand that, out of respect, Good Omens is going to largely remain the same story it was 30 years ago.

And those 6,000 years are just the beginning! Again, this was meant to be a miniseries of a single novel, a novel that, crucially, covered only Crowley and Aziraphale's triumph in being able to love one another freely. That's a part of their personal journey. Yeah, they've been together in one sense for 6,000 years, but that was always with hell and heaven on their backs, to say nothing of the slow-burn approach towards acknowledging that love, for Aziraphale in particular. We end the story at the start of their new relationship, one that is more free and open than it ever was before. They can be anything to one another now! The fact that we don't see that isn't a deliberate attempt on the author's part to deny us that representation, but only a result of the story ending.

So yeah, there's a lot to consider and, frankly, I don't think those fans are considering it. Which on a purely emotional level I can understand. I'm pissed about queerbaiting too and the knee-jerk desire to reject anything that doesn't meet a specific standard is understandable. But understandable doesn't mean we don't have to work against that instinct because doing otherwise is harmful in the long run. We need to consider when stories were published and what representation meant back then. We need to consider how we adapt those stories for a modern audience. We need to acknowledge that if we want the inclusivity that "queer" provides us, that includes getting characters whose identity is not strictly defined by the author as well as characters with overtly canonical labels. We need both. We likewise need to be careful about when having higher standards ends up hurting the wrong authors - who are our imperfect allies vs. those straight up unwilling to embrace our community at all? And most importantly, we have to think about how we're using the terms we've developed to discuss these issues. Queerbaiting means something specific and applying it to Good Omens not only does Good Omens a disservice, but it undermines the intended meaning of "queerbaiting," making it harder to use correctly in the future. Good Omens is not queerbaiting and trying to claim it is only hurts the community those fans are speaking up for.

[goldsrc-hl1]

"The Main rule of writing, is literally show don’t tell. If your excuse is they said it worked and didn’t show us it working."

The fact that we don't see much racism in places like Vale and Mistral is proof that it is working.

"You also don’t know what nuance is if your rgument is that they told us it worked, and then you’re arguing that Adam was radicalized and the main point of the entire plot is that radicalization is bad and absolutely nothing else."

*argument

No one is arguing that. You are, once again, strawmanning both the show and my argument and attacking it. That is a logical fallacy. You are losing credibility here even faster. I recommend you learn what logical fallacies are so that you can avoid them in the future.

The point of the plot is that Adam is generating more hate for the Faunus, and the Faunus have to stop him from doing that. That's the main message. Not that radicalization is bad 100% of the time. Radicalization, when it goes as far as Adam was taking it, is absolutely bad. But Sienna? She's absolutely a radical, yet she's never villainized or even criticized. She's just there, and it's up to the viewer to decide if she was justified or not.

"That’s not nuance. That’s not how it works. Lmfao."

Yeah, cause you strawmanned the entire message to the point that there was no nuance anymore. That's on you for literally making up the message.

"If they are straight up telling you one thing and one thing only, there’s no nuanced to it. They’re not exploring anything at all for that to be a nuanced take. Because the only enemies in that entire plot line is the Faunus."

They are not even telling you that. You are, once again, strawmanning the entire show's point regarding the White Fang plotline and then attacking your made up version of what the show is arguing.

Seriously, that's not something you should do in ANY discussion. It makes you lose credibility FAST and shows that you have no idea what you're talking about. Which, I mean, we all already knew, but still.

"Adam was part of all of that. Adam was doing all of that. He was the main focus and the main point of that, because once again and I have no idea why you’re not understanding this, Adam is the only relevant Faunus in the entire Faunus plot."

I'm not understanding this cause it's just blatantly incorrect. Blake, Ilia, Ghira, Corsac, Fennec, and Sun are all Faunus characters other than Adam that are relevant to the Faunus plotline. Adam is the main issue, yes, but he's not the only thing in the plotline.

Sauron may be the main problem of Lord of the Rings but he sure as fuck isn't the only relevant character lmfao.

"Sienna was introduced and then died. You can erase her from the entirety of the plot and nothing changes because the plot line didn’t need her and she added nothing to it. She’s not even the reason Adam is doing what he’s doing in the series, because the attack on beacon was because of CINDER and not because of Adam."

Watch it. Sienna is the reason Adam became so radical. She unintentionally contributed to his massive hero complex and fall to villainy. Without her, Adam wouldn't be the way he is.

Adam attacks Beacon cause Cinder makes him and because he just wants to. It's not Cinder that made Adam hate humans, it was the SDC that made Adam hate humans. Cinder might've led the attack, but she also delivered a massive victory to Adam on a silver platter, and since Adam isn't stupid and won't let his hatred for humans blind his judgement, he takes the offer.

"So what you’re saying, is that sienna was wrong and that she radicalized Adam and if it wasn’t for sienna that Adam wouldn’t have turned out the way he did. So you’re literally saying sienna was wrong and that her way was wrong."

This is another strawman.

Sienna ACCIDENTALLY radicalized Adam. She did so by calling him a hero for his violent actions, which causes him to develop his hero complex that feeds into his ego. What she did in and of itself isn't a problem, it was just that she did it to the wrong person.

If you REALLY want to take a contrarian stance on this, then RWBY is against glorifying violence. Sienna is never criticized for being violent, but through the subtext it's shown that being so nonchalant about violence is bad. That's fine. You should always acknowledge that it is a tragedy that you must resort to violence.

Not me, nor the show, said that Sienna's way was wrong and that she was wrong. She was wrong to lionize Adam, but other than that? The show really doesn't take a stance on her. She's there, and the viewer makes up their mind on whether or not she was justified. It just so happens that I do think she was justified in using violence where it was necessary.

"So you’re blaming the ignorance of others on the fact that minorities are fighting back.. that’s racism 101. That’s how racism works. That is what we call propaganda."

Adam is not fighting back against racism. He's fighting back against all of humanity in a revenge quest. If all racism suddenly disappeared, Adam would keep killing.

Honestly, I don't think you understand what I'm saying at all. I'm not saying that racism is justified due to Adam, I'm saying that people will use Adam as a justification for racism. I do not agree with the justification.

Correct, that is propaganda. That is the problem. People are pointing at Adam and generalizing all the Faunus as being like him, which is racist propaganda. I am not saying that racist propaganda is justified. I am saying that it exists, and the show provides a potential solution to the spread of racist propaganda.

"You are literally spouting racist rhetoric, and the fact that you don’t see it is as racists tell me that your yourself are completely ignorant and don’t know how it works or what it looks like. Because what you’re saying is racist. Point blank. Educate yourself because you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. In fact, we’re seeing that propaganda now. I hope you’re paying attention."

It is racist. Generalizing the entire Faunus population by using Adam as anti-Faunus propaganda is racist. That is the rhetoric that the racists, in the show, are using. I do not agree with that rhetoric. The show does not agree with that rhetoric either. Instead, the show is actually fighting back against that rhetoric by pointing out how you can stop that rhetoric from spreading.

At this point you're calling the show racist for accurately portraying racism lmfao

"Nah, you clearly do think that way. Because your entire basis and your logic align a with that sentiment. Because you are that ignorant

Also, lmdao, the fact that you think typos don’t exists makes sense."

Unwarranted assumption, another logical fallacy. Also guilt by association, to an extent, which is another logical fallacy.

I absolutely adore the fact that you couldn't even be bothered to spell "lmfao" correct in the sentence about typos. That's so adorable.

The fact that a subplot about racism, in which the writers decided that the racists aren’t the actual bad guys it’s actuallythe oppressed minority that’s actually the bad guys, is being defended by rwby Stans in scary.

[thevalleyisjolly]

Ok, I’ve rewritten this post several times because I really want this to be a productive and respectful discussion, but this is a conversation that does need to be started.  I’ve been thinking about the whole cultural appropriation story line in this season of The Unsleeping City so far, and of course I think it’s great that Cody is starting to realize why that’s wrong and that Murph is making it explicitly clear that it is wrong, but I want to reorient the conversation away from Cody now and talk about Ricky as a Japanese-American character.

Because when Zac went “Just to paint a picture for you...” during the museum fight episode, there was quite a bit of surprise from non-Asian people in the fandom that this was really a serious issue, and one that Ricky would be bothered by or speak up about.  But why wouldn’t he?  I mean, the character is Japanese-American, and so is the player.  Doesn’t it make perfect sense that he would at least be a little bothered by a white person appropriating Japanese culture?  Asian fans certainly noticed and pointed it out before that episode aired.  Ricky/Zac certainly noticed - go back through the episodes and observe how every time Cody pulled out a kunai or threw a shuriken, Ricky was cringing or facepalming with an uncomfortable laugh.  Even with seven different camera perspectives to watch at the same time, it should have been pretty clear in the fandom that this was an ongoing issue that would bother and was bothering Ricky.

And I think there are several different facets to this, but the one I want to address is how there’s a tendency in fandom to ignore or erase Ricky’s Japanese heritage.  Not literally (although there is a particular sting every time I see another Ricky fancast where the actor is of another Asian heritage than Japanese - Asian people are not interchangeable).  But especially prior to Season 2, there was a general trend in the fandom that liked to simplify Ricky’s character and overlook him as a complex player character because of traits that are very common in East Asian immigrant cultures.

Perhaps it’s because my heritage is East Asian and I’ve had more exposure to general cultural customs and behaviours among East Asian immigrants, but Zac’s portrayal of Ricky has always read as a very obvious Asian-American child of immigrants to me (and, y’know, Zac and Ricky are actually Asian-American children of immigrants).  Not expressing negative emotions out loud, not verbally articulating thoughts and feelings but expressing them through actions, deferring to other peoples’ needs first instead of expressing his own wants because it’s not about him.  With the caveat that I’m Chinese and not Japanese, these are common practices that I’ve observed in my own family, among friends and acquaintances (of various Asian heritages including but not limited to Chinese), in broader experiences with other East Asian immigrants.

(Asia is not a monolith and I’m not familiar with the immigrant cultures and experiences of people from other Asian heritages.  I specify East Asian here because that is broadly what I can speak on and because Ricky is Japanese, but other Asian people please feel free to discuss your experiences as well)

And obviously, these are not monolith traits observed at all times, I’ve definitely met plenty of East Asian immigrants who did express their emotions loudly, who used their words, who were assertive about their own needs and wants (this is not the post to be getting into different generations of immigration and the culture differences between those generations).  And it also depends on the context - from my own experience, in private within families, both emotions and words can get extremely loud (if you dare to risk the wrath of your elders by arguing with them!)  But my point is that the habits I pointed out above are still relatively common in East Asian immigrant cultures, even if not all individuals follow them at all times.

Particularly prior to Season 2, there was a common perspective in the fandom, usually couched in “uwu, I love that Zac is playing a hot dummy!!” that would go along the lines of “Ricky doesn’t have a character arc, he doesn’t get into conflicts with other people, he doesn’t say anything and is just happy to be there, he’s a shallow character who’s just a himbo.”  All of which I’d dispute, (*insert post here about Ricky as a character reclaiming Asian masculinity*), but I want to focus on how the main traits -refraining from overt emotions, remaining reserved in speech, not bringing up his own needs and wants- that were brought up and used to simplify and dismiss Ricky’s character were traits which are commonly found in East Asian immigrant communities.  The whole “remaining reserved/trying to avoid conflict” is something a lot of East Asian-American kids pick up at home because what you say or don’t say isn’t as important as what you do or don’t do.

And I mean, so much of Ricky is about doing things for people, showing his feelings through his actions, not his words.  Just because he wasn’t getting into PC conflict in Season 1, or expressing his emotions in the same ways as other PCs, doesn’t mean he was just a silent, cheerful himbo.  Which there’s nothing wrong with being a himbo, and it can be particularly empowering in Ricky’s case as an Asian man (see above linked post about Asian masculinity), but that’s not all there is to Ricky’s character!  And don’t get me wrong, I personally love that part of his ongoing character arc in Season 2 is speaking up about his feelings and expressing to other people what he wants (because there’s the “American” part of the Asian-American experience that’s not just about having Asian heritage but is also about negotiating that relationship in a place with different norms and customs).  But it doesn’t negate the “Asian” part of “Asian-American” either, which does impact and shape the way Ricky interacts with people and the world.

In hindsight, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that interest and meta in Ricky skyrocketed once he did start being more vocal and assertive in Season 2, which are common traits in many Western cultures.  And it’s not the only reason that there’s a deeper interest in Ricky now (shout out to all the Asian fans and allies who’ve been really diving into Ricky’s character this season!) and I choose to believe in good faith that it isn’t intentional or malicious (audiences do tend to gravitate more towards tangible moments of conversation and conflict rather than background acting).  But I think we as fans need to start questioning why as a whole, we really didn’t start giving deeper thought to Ricky until he began displaying more typically Western traits, because I think it’s emblematic of how, very subtly and unconsciously, we are used to privileging white “American” behaviour and ignoring or glossing over Asian (immigrant) traits.

In many ways, Ricky prior to Season 2 (and very arguably up until the museum fight), has been perceived in the general fandom as a sort of post-racial American-melting-pot character.  Fans don’t wholly ignore that he’s Japanese-American, you can’t really do that when his family name is “Matsui” and when the Season 1 finale showed that his interactions with the American Dream pretty strongly involved his parents’ immigrant experience.  But knowing intellectually that Ricky is Asian doesn’t always translate to actually perceiving him as an Asian person with all the implications and racial dynamics that entails.

An example of how this manifests: Ricky and Esther become a canon couple.  Numerous posts begin to appear (and periodically still do) that express opinions along the lines of Ricky/Esther being the only tolerable “het” couple.  Ignoring the fact that we don’t know Esther’s sexuality and we only have an offhand Ztream comment for Ricky, Ricky/Esther is a canonical interracial relationship between two non-white people, a Japanese man and a black woman.  Interracial relationships are already extremely poorly represented in media, to say nothing of interracial relationships between non-white people.   Yet we overlook the racial dynamics and only focus on the perceived queerness (or not) of the ship.

Or, for another example, taking the discussion on cultural appropriation and making it all about Cody’s flaws and character development, rather than considering how it affects Ricky as a Japanese man to see a white man disrespecting a part of his cultural heritage.

Anyways, I really urge D20 fans, especially if you’re not Asian, to start questioning and challenging how you really perceive characters, what kind of characteristics you tend to privilege and be drawn to and why, and what kind of fandom environment you shape in your interactions with the show and with other fans.  This is not to say that Ricky should be everyone’s favourite character or that you can’t dislike him, but it is important to think about why we have the preferences that we do.  I especially urge you to remember that Ricky Matsui is a Japanese-American character, that this was a deliberate choice which has been repeatedly brought up by Zac (who is a Japanese-American actor), and that you cannot and should not ignore Ricky’s heritage when you think and talk about him. 

(And if you think Ricky is being an “asshole” to Cody just for being, frankly, mildly perturbed in his direction because Cody spent most of the season so far being very offensive to Ricky’s cultural heritage, I really encourage you to think critically about your opinions and why you hold them.  And if, after thinking critically, you still don’t see why they’re wrong, please don’t let the door hit you on the way out.  Your conscious racism is not something that is welcome in this fandom, and Asian fans are not here to teach you better)

((White and non-Asian people can and should reblog this, but don’t clown around.  Productive, respectful discussion is welcome.  Asian fans are more than welcome to add their perspectives/agree/disagree, especially people with Japanese heritage))

[sillysunshinesstuff]

The Absolute Fuckery that was 15x20

Ok there were a lot of reasons why the final was bad. Like so many fucking reasons. Even without the queerbaiting,this is some of the worst writing I’ve ever seen and here’s a few reasons why: 

Destiel

Yes. Big main reason here. They should not have included a confession and have one of the main plots of season 15 be Castiel’s and Dean’s relationship if they didn’t intend to follow through in any way. It shouldn’t have been introduced because the story became disjointed and thematically unsatisfying due to not being addressed in the final in any sort of way. Also, queerbaiting in 2020? Just to get your views up for the last few episodes because they knew Supernatural had become a shit show of bad ratings? Calculated and cruel toward the LGBTQIA+ community who has supported their careers for years. 

Saileen

The absolute least they could have done was see this plot point through but they did not. We do not know if Eileen lives and even if they release information that she did, it’s still bullshit because we don’t get to see any part of her story. She has been reduced to a two dimensional character with no agency or purpose. Another woman just meant to prop up the male lead. Bullshit. 

The Empty

What the fuck was the point of everything about this plot line if it would just be trashed half way through? Why did Cas make that deal with Ruby? Why did she beg to get out? Why did the Empty accuse Jack of making it loud? I really thought they were going somewhere with this one but they chickened out. There was so much potential for this; the angels and demons being awakened, balance being restored in heaven and hell, a big final show down between them and God. There were so many things just dropped when it came to this and that is why season 15 is absolutely frustrating because it feels like we just wasted our time with useless world building that didn’t amount to anything. 

Kevin

I truly did think they’d address this in some sort of way, but the last time we saw Kevin, he was cursed to wander the earth until he became insane because his soul couldn’t ascend to heaven. I was really excited about this because I thought it meant there was going to be some restructuring of the Supernatural universe. The plot would be how the universe Chuck created wasn’t perfect and it had flaws and it was up to Team Free Will to fix some of these gaping holes. They made a point of calling it unfair. It was a wrong that should have been righted in some sort of way in the final. 

Benny

This really isn’t just about Benny, it is about the concept of purgatory. A running theme in the show is that good people don’t deserve what happened to them. We see a lot of “good” monsters throughout the show. Characters who helped, sacrificed, and died for the brothers. At the end, they are sent to monster hell or purgatory. There was an episode this season where Sam and Dean killed a teenage boy who had been turned into a vampire. The teenage boy accepted his death because he knew it was for the best. He was afraid of hurting more people and he accepted that it was unfair. They made sure to emphasize how unjust the rules of this universe were and the emotional toll these universal rules took on the boys. Benny’s demise was spoken about briefly and we see Dean very hurt about his death. But the audience is left with the feeling that this is wrong. That the way the Supernatural universe is structured is wrong. Good people get turned into monsters, die, go to purgatory, and then die the ultimate death there. Is this what’s in store for all the “good monster” characters in the show? Garth? His family? They’re werewolves who fight their monster instincts, do they they still deserve purgatory? Did that teenage boy? A gaping hole that I thought the show was going to address in some way. Maybe offer redemption to those in purgatory or have Jack completely wipe away the concept of monsters in the universe. After all, it was just Chuck’s shitty writing, why couldn’t they wipe it clean and just leave people? “Cure” people of the monster and officially give the boys a way out of hunting? No monsters means no hunting. They’d be truly free. I thought this was direction they were going based off the certain episodes and characters discussed. But nope.

Jack

They reduced Jack’s character to plot food and that’s it. His ending was sloppy because it didn’t take into account any of the growth he’s had over the last three seasons. We predicted his ending from season 12 and that’s bad writing. Just. Awful writing. This character had dreams, motivations, relationships, but that all quite literally dissipated. He was used as a magic button that solved all their problems. 15x19 truly showed the lack of thought put into his character. He should not have been a main character if he didn’t have more influence on the plot than simply being a cop-out for having to write a well thought out solution. He was literally just there to snap his fingers and fix all their problems. 

Dean

Oh yeah, Dean’s ending was a big fuck you to any character growth this character has had over the last 15 seasons. There is a line in his final 15 minute goodbye monologue where he says they always knew it would end this way. Which, exactly. We always thought it would end this way because it’s so goddamn predictable. It’s shitty writing because it doesn’t try to subvert this. It quite literally says that any growth Dean has had meant nothing because it didn’t change his end. Dean Winchester was always meant to die a young, bloody death. Everything he’s done, everything he’s bled and sacrificed for meant nothing. His prediction came true. It makes the audience wonder why they stuck around for this long ass journey if they knew the ending all along. It isn’t about what this character deserves. We have always known that the hero deserves happiness, but the ending should say something about why the story matters. Why did we see Dean struggle all his life about accepting himself? Loving himself? Seeing himself as someone who deserves to live? It was yet another theme and plot point throughout season 15. It’s what Castiel proclaimed to him in his confession and it is what Dean finally acknowledged by telling Chuck that’s not who he was. Dean Winchester is not a cold blooded killer. Dean Winchester deserved to live. It was beautiful character growth. A wonderful end to him. But they said fuck that when his last words were that he always knew it would end this way. That he always knew he wasn’t meant to live a long life. The writers wanted tears and they got them. I was crying, not because it was a beautiful satisfying death or ending, but because they tore apart 15 years of development for my beloved character. Dean Winchester has shown consistently that he wanted more than hunting, he wanted more than the life he got stuck with. But they didn’t follow through. They just decided to make an emotional ending because that was the coolest broest bro masculine thing to do. 

Castiel

Literally everything. Literally fucking everything. Another character that was reduced to plot food. Castiel, the angel who rebelled against heaven and fell for the man he raised from perdition, was not deemed important enough to be in the final. This was the biggest fuck you of all. His story had become so complicated over the last few seasons and his purpose was kinda everywhere but they finally focused it when they had his happiness be Dean. When he said he found his faith when he found a family. When he became a father to someone who would one day save the universe. Castiel lived for the love he learned he was capable of. His ending just made no sense. I guess we’re supposed to assume Jack saved his from the empty but he wasn’t shown. He was not shown greeting Dean, the man he died for over and over again, his happiness. He was not shown being reunited with Jack, his faith. He was not shown enjoying the life he fell from grace for. He was a book with half its pages ripped out. Castiel didn’t get an ending. He got erased. 

Sam

That fucking wig. 

This is just some of my rambling thoughts I wanted to share will all of you. I have been a fan of this show for so many years. I invested so much time and love into something I’m going to look back on with bitter disappointment. Some of shittiest writing I have ever seen. Thanks for reading and add some more reasons. I know a missed a shit ton. 

[bigskydreaming]

Hi! I was reading a fanfic and it brought up Roy and Dick's fight, which I see a lot of in fics but never what they fought about and consequently why they don't talk. I thought it was a vague excuse/reason why Roy was Jason's friend not Dick's anymore but this fic brought up when Dick was batman so I was wondering if there was actually a fight between them? Btw I really enjoy your metas! They're v thought out and well articulated. Also it's v easy to separate what's your opinion and what's fact which is. Very helpful for me

Yeah this is one hundred percent a fanon thing that's kept deliberately vague to justify why Roy in his friendship with Jason seems to have no positive thoughts or concerns about Dick whatsoever. Now granted, Dick and Roy are not nearly as close in the New 52 as they were pre-Reboot. The lack of their friendship there is definitely one of the things I disliked most about the Reboot - and I actually don't care if Jason and Roy are friends tbh, its the total erasure of his history with Dick as if he can't be friends with both, that like, bugs most.

But so like, yeah, Roy and Dick aren't super close when they interact on the Titans in the New 52, but there's literally nothing in any of their interactions that explains the complete absence of him from Roy's life or a reason that Roy would like, hate him the way he tends to in a lot of Jason-centric fics.

When you factor in pre-Reboot stuff though, it starts to get a LOT more.....uh wyd? And this is why I have trouble buying that people just write Roy and Jason the way they do because its the only thing they know from recent comics. Like one, most fans talk about how they don't even read the source comics, so there's no reason their knowledge of the characters or events would be limited to just recent comics if they're going off wiki summaries and scans anyway. And second, most fans AREN'T limited in their knowledge to just recent comics.

Like, the second people start writing Roy and Jason and Kori but with their pre-52 characterizations and references to events from THAT timeline, it all gets very messy, the way they're like, completely antagonistic towards Dick a lot of the time. Because Roy and Dick were always solid. Yes, they fought. A lot. But they always, ALWAYS made up afterwards. They had conflict about Roy's drug addiction - it didn't stop Dick from being there to support him through rehab, or Dick being the first person Roy called to help him get Lian after he learned of her existence. Dick literally held Lian before Roy ever did? He's the one who first put her in Roy's arms for the first time.

(Which is the prime grudge I and most Dick Grayson fans have about Roy and Jason fics which make Jason like, the absolute apple of Lian's eye. If you want to expand Lian's circle of loved and trusted ones to include Jason as Roy's friend and thus her uncle, like go for it! But there's zero reason that should require invalidating and erasing the fact that Dick was this little girl's adored godfather and uncle for pretty much her entire life. And the way Dick is just shoved offstage from Lian's life entirely, to slot Jason into his place as though they're completely interchangeable, its like....THAT'S the kind of thing that gets people irey about how Jason 'steals' Dick's dynamics and character relationships.

Because there's nothing saying they both can't be major players in Roy and Lian's lives! But just that they're not interchangeable! You need to develop the specific role Jason plays there WITHOUT just overwriting everything Dick actually did in relation to the two of them pre-Flashpoint, which is what you're drawing from the second you write Lian, unless you're specifically going with the few appearances we've had of her within literally just the last year.

But I mean, when people just search and replace Dick Grayson in all Roy and Lian's pre-Reboot stories and act like Jason was the one doing all of that instead.....why wouldn't fans of the source material be annoyed by a character getting credit for interactions and things done for Lian and Roy that Jason literally NEVER DID, while at the EXACT SAME TIME, conjuring some mysterious, unnamed 'Falling Out' that Roy and Dick had, that was clearly all Dick's fault, and resulted from him being basically excised entirely from Roy and Lian's lives?

Same with Kori, for the record, and like despite being Dick's ex, she and Dick have NEVER been like, estranged? She and Dick have often been close even after their breakup. None of it makes any sense, and the fact that a lot of fans don't even try to make it make sense or justify it, and expect other fans to just be fine with settling for an inexplicable reversal of Dick's every actual dynamic with these characters while setting up Jason to occupy the exact same role Dick played in these other characters' lives, like.....lol. Its fun.)

Anyway, back to your question, like, there are fights you can go with pre-Reboot as the source of various conflicts between Dick and Roy - but again, I maintain its just as crucial that they're always written as getting past them. They have a very tempestuous relationship because they are the two people MOST likely to call each other on their shit, two of the two people WITH the most shit in common due to the parallels in their childhoods and the roles they've occupied in the Titans and the superhero community in general, and the two people most resistant to being called out on their shit by each other, lol. Mostly in that case because like, they do recognize that they have a lot in common and understand each other very well, so the second the other is calling them out for something, they're usually like "ugh, if HE'S saying this, its probably true and I am just not prepared yet to be wrong about this. I need more time being unjustifiably rawr about things." Its like that thing where they both look at each other doing something that feels familiar or calls back to their own reasons for doing something and they're like ugh I'm in this picture and I don't like it.

So they clash. A lot. But always with the implicit bedrock of like, there's nothing either of them can do or say to the other that will push the other away for good.

They fought over Roy replacing Dick as leader of the Titans when Dick's wedding fell apart, even though Roy actually didn't want to do it and was kinda pushed into it by the government, but again, Dick like, got over it and realized it was for the best and forgave Roy for it that very same issue. And on and on. It always went like that. So there's plenty of stuff that can be used or pointed at as a source of conflict between the two, but the part I'll always call unbelievable is the idea that they never make up after one of these fights. Why now? What fight, specifically, is so bad between them that despite everything else they've gone through AND gotten past, they can't get past this one? Y'know?

So yeah, that's my take on this. There is no definitive falling out between Dick and Roy as many fics like to point to in order to shove him offscreen and make room for Jason in Roy and Lian's lives, and personally, I just don't find it necessary and I actually think it makes Roy look REALLY bad. Because when you're not specifically detailing all the things that Dick has actually DONE for Roy, the lengths to which he's been there for his friend, and like, specifically invalidating each and every one of them as something that never happened in a particular fic, then literally anyone who reads that fic and has their own awareness of Dick and Roy's friendship is kiiiiiinda likely to be reading that and thinking wow what an ungrateful asshole, when Roy's just written as bitching about Dick with Jason and sandbagging him without any real explanation as to WHY, beyond just 'oh they had a fight years ago.'

(And coming up with some random awful thing that Dick did to justify Roy hating him now isn't like, a superior alternative, lmao, because again, its still just trashing one character for the sake of getting him out of the way of two other characters' friendship and people are going to think what they think about that).

Anyway, my now standard stock disclaimer that like, there doesn't actually need to be a canon fight obviously, for people to just write things this way and handwave that Dick and Roy had an epic falling out years ago and now they just hate one another or whatever, or just Roy hates him or vice versa. Obviously people are free to do what they want. They don't need a reason other than "I want to write it this way so Jason and Roy are friends and Jason doesn't have to 'share' him with Dick or have his friendship be overshadowed by their greater history together." That just happens to be a reason that no Dick Grayson fan is ever really going to be happy about, lol, for what should be perfectly obvious reasons, so it honestly shouldn't be surprising to people that fans of the source material often gripe about it.

Because yeah fanfic is a tremendous opportunity to transform the source material into something better, but if what's better for some fans actively takes away what was working perfectly well for other fans the original way, they're going to say that. Especially in a fandom where so many new fans take their view of the characters and their dynamics from fics rather than the source material - when fandom has that much of an influence on what new fans perceive to be 'canon,' fans are perfectly within their right to emphasize what is ACTUALLY canon and what isn't, so that new fans at least have the opportunity to determine for themselves what take they want to go with, instead of just accepting at face value that the nature of say, Dick and Roy's relationship is just that Roy hates Dick because of some mumble mumble ancient history vague mumble details not found mumble mumble fight.

[violencebian]

I think "bakugou stans" (characters who don't hate him, apparently) just wanna know what Bakugou Could do for the "anti-bakugou" crowd to not think he's irredeemable? I dont think many ppl are actually pressed when someone doesn't like bakugou, it's pretty understandable, but the whole "anti" thing is just so much for a teenage character who's done a few things wrong and is now trying to make up for it lmao

ok im not rlly in the mood to fight but i literally think this is the funniest shit ever. MF HE BULLIED IZUKU FOR OVER 10 YEARS !!!!!!!!! wdym "done a few things wrong" HE BULLY IZUKU AND TOLD HIM TO KHS !!!!!!!! and sure maybe the "swan dive off the roof" comment was in one chapter BUT HE REPEATEDLY TELLS CHARACTERS TO DIE AFTER WARDS !!!!!! like idk im sorry that we dont think over a decade of bullying can go away in a shitty apology thats essentially "i was supposed to be better than you!!!! i AM better than you!!! im sorry for not realizing lol" like breastie he literally just said "sorry for everything" its not a good apology. HE DIDNT EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE HOW IZUKU FELT !!!!! and a good chunk of us dont like him bc he reminds us of our bullies or abusers. we also want consistent character development, for him to be able to be nice without immediately turning around and being a dick again for a while until he does something nice again. thats not really character development? you saved someones life? GOOD!! UR A FUCKING HERO STUDENT HEROES ARE *SUPPOSED* TO SAVE PPL !!!! U DID THE BARE MINIMUM !!!!! and about the "being irredeemable" thing he's already irredeemable. nothing he can say or do can erase the trauma that comes with bullying someone for 10+ years.

plus, us bakugou antis want to be left alone. we feel like bakugou stans are forcing his apology down our throat and trying to force us to accept it. they're making it seem like we're being unreasonable and we should stop hating bakugou just because he apologized.

this is the only time ill fight over this shit. so do not continue to flood my inbox with pro-bakugou/anti bakugou antis sentiment.

[mittensmorgul]

it’s a bummer to see you can’t enjoy the ending. I hope someday you can come around it it. It wasn’t perfect but it didn’t nuke its integrity. i think the heart of the show really shines through and it’s a shame that it’s not being appreciated bc there’s so much shipping drama 😣

Hi there!

I... first of, I really need people to understand this... the travesty of the finale for me has almost nothing to do with “shipping drama.”

Yes, I see the wild conspiracy theories flying around, and I’m honestly concerned for some of those folks and hope they can find a way to make peace with this in whatever way they can, because we aren’t likely to ever get a better answer than that this is legitimately the ending that Dabb thought was best, despite years of us seeing the best of his writing choices and guiding Sam, Dean, and Cas to grow past the roles that Chuck would’ve forced them to fulfill, and that at the end it fell flat because he couldn’t actually come up with a better ending than “this was always their destiny, free will is a lie, and these characters had nothing outside of the revenge quest they’d been raised for since birth and manipulated into over and over for the entertainment of a vengeful god.”

I can see how “surface level” viewers would feel that this one basic narrative point was satisfying, that Sam and Dean had grown beyond their own hopeless cycle of self-sacrifice that had driven the narrative for so many years. The fact that they both acknowledged that they should allow their stories to end in that way was satisfying... but only in the shallowest and most detached read of the narrative. Like, is this really the ONLY thing these two characters learned in the last 15 years? If so, that is BEYOND depressing af.

And even THAT message lost all narrative weight when the two of them were once again reunited in death, as if nothing else had ever mattered in their lives. As if neither of them had ever outgrown the codependency that had driven so many of those previous self-sacrifices and refusals to let go of each other even in death.

So yeah, in the absolute most basic sense, I suppose I can see how casual viewers or people who aren’t actually invested in these characters could find that at least narratively coming back to a starting point.

But narratives don’t actually work that way, and that’s not the point of watching fifteen years of story develop in between.

This story wasn’t JUST about Sam and Dean needing to accept that death might be okay actually.

This story was also about free will, fighting for humanity as a whole but also their OWN humanity and self-identities. In Dean’s case, the absolutely transformative growth from feeling like nothing but a hammer, a killer, a tool to be used. And then less than an episode and a half later, after finally accepting that truth into his heart and using it to defeat the original creator and reclaim the story of his own life for himself... he gets pied in the face after flippantly talking about his destiny and having no choice, and then three scenes later he literally dies impaled on a great big nail... like a hammer...

So I would kindly ask folks who feel satisfied by that shallowest possible takeaway of this episode, and maybe invite folks to look just under that surface. Try to understand why loads of us will NEVER feel satisfied with this ending, and why it truly does feel like the most hopeless version of the story. Like even in defeating Chuck, they could never be allowed to own their own stories and what happened to them after that point was just a twisted version of the “destiny” that drove Chuck’s entire plotline for them anyway.

Please understand where we’re seeing this as horrifically painful irony rather than some beautiful circular narrative about letting go.

For a lot of us, the shipping stuff would’ve been the cherry on top of the sundae. We would’ve been happy with a scoop of plain vanilla, though. We would’ve been happy for anything that honored the journey to freedom, and the choice at any sort of a different life of their own making than literally falling back on a nail fighting off one of John’s unresolved hunts and a vampire who had literally never been named in canon before, yet who Dean instantly recognized somehow... 

but sure, for those of us who felt that “the heart of the show” was all the stuff that the finale actually erased-- that “family don’t end in blood,” and that this was actually not a show about just two brothers but the love of their found family and coming to terms with the choices they actually HAD made for themselves versus the narrative that Chuck kept centering them in DESPITE what they would choose for themselves, the finale basically told us no, everything you ever found of value in this story actually meant nothing. It told us that Chuck’s story for them was their only truth in the end, and their only freedom was to be found in death.

Please, I am begging people, stop trying to gaslight us that this was some beautiful ending. Maybe think for a second that “your read” of the narrative that allows you to find peace with the ending is not what we saw and loved about this story for the 326 episodes leading up to this finale.

And please try to understand that we were not wrong to see the entire narrative through this lens. Because we were literally validated IN CANON, and told that we understood the depth of the story and the characters just fine, actually. There’s literally ONE episode of the entire series that burns it all down in a bewildering pile of wtf. And that’s #327. That throws that entire read out the window to well actually us all back into Chuck’s literal ending... This was literally the ending Chuck wanted to force them to enact for him, and it’s what ended up happening even after they defeated him-- the ultimate Big Bad of the entire series should’ve been defeated, but instead he pulled off one final victory over the entire story.

Becky: No. You can't-- Chuck: I did. Becky: Y- This is just an ending. Chuck: Yeah. I don't know how I'm gonna get there, but I know where I'm goin'. Becky: B-But it's so... dark. Chuck: But great, right? I can see it now -- "Supernatural: The End". And the cover is just a gravestone that says "Winchester". The fans are gonna love it. Well? Becky: It's awful! Horrible. It's hopeless. You can't do this to the fans. What you did to Dean? What you did to Sam? Chuck: There, see? It's making you feel something. That's good, right?

and

Dean: Well, what now? You're not gonna dust us. Chuck: Oh, yeah? Why not? Dean: Because you're holding out. For your big finish. Yeah, we know about your galaxy-brained idea, how you think this story is gonna go. Sam got a little look into your draft folder. Chuck: Sam's visions -- they weren't drafts. They were memories. My memories. Other Sams and other Deans in other worlds. But guess what. Just like you, they didn't think they'd do it, either. But they did. And you will, too. Dean: No. Not this Sam. And not this Dean. So you go back to Earth 2 and play with your other toys. Because we will never give you the ending that you want. Chuck: We'll see.

And even in DEFEAT Chuck thought he understood these characters, thought that having rendered him powerless they would finally take their revenge and kill him, but they didn’t, because he never actually understood these characters at all. And the story he tried to force them into from day one was never about THEM, it was about HIM. 

And then Dean gets like two whole days of freedom and choice and is apparently incapable of making any of the choices that don’t throw him immediately back into Chuck’s favorite story. Like none of that resolution in the previous episode meant anything at all. He even SAYS it in the finale:

Dean: Yeah, no. I think about 'em, too. You know what? That pain's not gonna go away. Right? But if we don't keep living, then all that sacrifice is gonna be for nothing.

And then two scenes later the show gives us the Nelson Muntz HA HA and Dean is no longer living, and Sam is left to carry on as a shell of himself and wander off into Blurry Wife Land to devote any even remotely content moment of the rest of his years to raising a  Replacement Dean to fill the void, and is never able to pick up the pen to write anything better of his own life than Chuck would’ve dealt him in the first place.

So I’m glad that top-layer takeaway is sustaining and enough for you. It wasn’t, and will never be enough for the rest of us.

What was actually real in all of this? We were.

Until we weren’t.

And that’s honestly a shit message to be pushing on people in the wake of it all. So please stop.

I should actually thank you for the kind intent with which your message is phrased, but that doesn’t make it feel less hilariously awful. Though I chose this one to reply to as the least insulting of all the messages currently in my inbox on this subject. So thanks for that, at least.

[thinkingisadangerouspastime]

(pt 1) i really enjoy all your atla analyses & you've done a great job breaking down the usual arguments re how eip shows that kataang shouldn't have happened. i'm curious about your take on one specific argument that i just saw today, in an analysis of the show by a zker that was otherwise quite good and respectful (i know you've already talked about eip a lot, so no problem if you don't feel like rehashing). the premise: aang didn't just pressure katara in eip, he threatened her.

(pt 2) they point to when katara joins aang & asks if he’s alright: “aang: no, i’m not! i hate this play! katara: i know it’s upsetting, but it sounds like you’re overreacting. aang: overreacting? if i hadn’t blocked my chakra, i’d probably be in the avatar state right now!” the suggestion is he’s threatening her when he says ‘i’d probably be in the avatar state right now’ to describe his anger. i think this take exaggerates and oversimplifies it, but interested in your thoughts on it.

Hello my friend!! It is true I am Old inside and don’t like rehashing dhdlksjslks BUT your comments on my posts are always incredibly kind and insightful so I am more than willing to do a bit of rehashing for you 🥰 Besides! I’ve seen this general take before a few times and it’s always irked me for the exact reason you point out - it simultaneously exaggerates and oversimplifies the situation (and honestly that’s an impressive duality since it’s seemingly contradictory, so hats off to them lmaooo) - and now is as good a time as any to address it. So, for starters, let’s go ahead and get the excerpt they love to focus on so much:

Cut to Aang standing alone on a balcony. Katara enters and walks up to him.

Katara: Are you all right?

Aang: [Angered.] No, I’m not! I hate this play! [Yanks his hat off and throws it on the ground.]

Katara: I know it’s upsetting, but it sounds like you’re overreacting.

Aang: Overreacting? If I hadn’t blocked my chakra, I’d probably be in the Avatar State right now!

Here’s the thing about so-called analyses of this excerpt: in a manner extremely convenient to the poster, they never seek to contextualize this moment. (I mean, to do so would deplatform their entire “argument” - perhaps that’s why they avoid performing a full analysis?) So let’s avoid that pitfall from the start.

Firstly, below are some links to related posts; I’m going to do my best to summarize the most relevant parts, but for anyone who desires greater detail, I gotchu 😤

This post explains why EIP (the play, lol) is imperialist propaganda and is intended to belittle the entire Gaang.

This post explains how Aang never acted “entitled” to Katara’s affections, particularly in regard to EIP.

This post breaks down the infamous EIP kiss like Snopes Fact Checker, covering common misconceptions, important perspectives to consider, etc.

Alright. With that out the way, it’s time for some context.

Aang and Katara have this conversation on the balcony after watching 95% of “The Boy in the Iceberg,” a play chock-full of Fire Nation propaganda that demeans the entire Gaang in order to prop up the Fire Nation as superior (hence why the play ends with Ozai’s victory). Here is my general breakdown of Aang and Katara’s treatment in particular from a previous post:

- katara, an indigenous woman, is highly sexualized and portrayed as overly dramatic and tearful, because the fire nation objectifies women not of their own people and views them as less intelligent and less emotionally stable

- aang, the avatar, the sole survivor of the fire nation’s genocide of the air nomads who is incredibly in-touch with his spirituality and femininity, is portrayed as an overly-airy and immature woman. the fire nation portrays him with a female actor to demean him (like, that’s classic imperialistic propagandist tactics) and furthermore writing his character as a childish airhead reinforces the fire nation sentiment that the air nomads were weak, foolish people who did not deserve to exist in their world

In other words, these kids have just watched almost an entire play that preys upon their insecurities and depicts them using racist and sexist stereotypes about their respective nations. It is completely understandable that tensions might run a little high and that their interactions would not be as balanced as usual (Katara and Aang have a great track record of communicating well with each other, as it happens!).

So we have to keep that in mind when examining the aforementioned excerpt. But there are other factors to consider, too! Namely: they are kids. Children. Teens. Aang is 12, Katara is 14.

If we want to be scientific, a person’s brain doesn’t finish developing until they are 25, lmao, and the preteen/teen years are when the prefrontal cortex that controls “rationality,” “judgement,” “forethought,” etc. is still developing. This doesn’t mean Aang and Katara are irrational and make poor decisions 24/7 (obviously not), but it does mean that in an intense, highly emotional situation, like after watching a play that intentionally demeans them and depicts them as inferior, they are more likely to overreact, more likely to be emotional, and more likely to make mistakes. Like, I’m serious, lol. “Teens process information with the amygdala.” That’s part of the brain that helps control emotions! It’s why teens sometimes struggle to articulate what we’re thinking, especially in situations that require instinct/impulse and quick decisions, because we’re really feeling whenever we make those choices. Acting more on emotion. Our brains simply haven’t finished developing the decision-making parts, lmao.

In sum: Aang and Katara are both kids, not adults, and should be interpreted as such. This doesn’t negate their intelligence, because they are both incredibly smart and Aang is arguably the wisest of the Gaang, but they are human. Young humans. They have emotions, and we should not be so cruel as to assume they’d never act on them.

So taking that all together, we can now acknowledge the high stress Aang and Katara are under, understand why they might be upset (*cough* imperialist propaganda is hurtful *cough*), and examine how their youth might play into their emotional reactions. And funny thing - all analyses that come to the conclusion of Aang “threatening” Katara here do not usually bother with this context. I can’t imagine why!

And you know what, let’s add one more piece of context: Sokka states that Aang left the theater “like, ten minutes ago,” which is what cues Katara to go look for him on the balcony. The reason I mention this line is because to me, it suggests Aang knew he was more worked up than usual! He chose to separate himself from his friends so he could process his frustration! He did not take his anger at the play out on them; instead, he purposefully took time and space to be alone.

With that in mind, I don’t understand at all how Aang’s Avatar state quote could be interpreted as a threat? Canonly, Aang is someone who was aware enough of his frustration to separate himself from the others - yet the logical next step is him threatening Katara as a result? He knew his intense emotions were because of the play (which he says himself), so the logical conclusion is that he then pinned the fault on Katara? What?? Sorry, that interpretation has no textual basis, lmao. But I digress!

Aang tells Katara, “If I hadn’t blocked my chakra, I’d probably be in the Avatar State right now!” As you said, this is the line people point to in an attempt to justify their (baseless) conclusion that Aang is “threatening” Katara. So let’s bring in the two key pieces of context: imperialist propaganda and age. Given that Aang is 12, and given that Aang has just watched almost a full play that demeans him and everything his people stood for (and let’s not forget it also mocks his and Katara’s love for each other)…

His reaction is understandable. An exaggeration and needlessly dramatic, but understandable. He feels vulnerable and insecure and Aang is human. He is human and flawed and he overreacts here and I love that A:TLA shows how even our heroes, even people who are truly good at heart and in soul, can get overly upset (especially given the aforementioned circumstances!). Would Aang actually be in the Avatar state at that moment, had it been possible? Of course not! He’s young and he’s hurt and as such he says something dramatic to convey his anxieties and frustrations. The line is not meant to be taken literally, and seeing people do so despite all the factors that should be taken into consideration when analyzing it… Cue a long, tired sigh from me and so many other A:TLA fans.

And to be honest? I cannot fathom how people watch this episode and come to the conclusion that Aang is “threatening” Katara. To me, this episode - besides being a recap episode - is one that humanizes our cast even further. Aang snaps at Katara, kisses her when he shouldn’t (which the story appropriately treats as wrong). Katara pushes down her true feelings and retreats into herself, afraid to start a relationship with the boy she loves because she’s already lost him once before and can’t bear to do so again. Zuko further confronts the hurt he’s enacted upon others, especially upon Iroh. Toph practices being vulnerable and accepting vulnerability from others by conversing with Zuko. Sokka witnesses how others have erased his contributions and labelled him as nothing more than the token nonbender in the group. Even Suki learns that she is not the only person who holds a place in Sokka’s heart and that she can never replace what he has lost.

To watch this episode where our heroes must come to terms with how the Fire Nation deems them inherently inferior, with how they have more fights to overcome in the future with the Fire Nation than a single war, and to come to the conclusion that… that what, Aang is abusive? A monster? Irredeemable? That he would threaten his best friend, someone he loves in every way?

Wow. That says more than enough about the viewer, doesn’t it?

[soranis-sunshadow]

Why Hordak and all of his brothers are cult victims suffering from Religious Trauma Syndrome

A detailed (and very, very, veeeeryy long) explanation on why I take issue with dismissing Hordak’s trauma as “daddy issues” that is frequently done as a way to hand wave his background and the context for his actions all while attributing said cultic abuse and indoctrination narrative to a character that, though has a tragic, abuse-laden past has never actually been part of a cult. *cough* Catra *cough*

Lets see how deep the rabit hole goes shall we?

First off: The Galactic Horde is based on a suicide cult, with Horde Prime as its leader.  

That is irrefutable fact. It has been stated by the show runner and there are plenty of in-show examples of religious speak, religious themes pertaining to Horde Prime and his acolytes and even the interior design of Horde Prime’s ship is that of a grandiose Cathedral.

The source of this is an article by Polygon where the show runner breaks down what went into creating Horde Prime. (link in the notes)

Onto The Etherian Horde – though totalitarian in nature, it is not a religious institution – merely a military operation. Though the argument could be made that propaganda is used to instill an anti-princess agenda, no horde members are ever seen spouting doctrine or discrimination against their very own Princess in the ranks ��� Scorpia. Not only is she not discriminated against, she holds the rank of Force Captain. She also has the respect of her peers.

The only person that seemed to have taken it seriously is Adora, who - due to Shadow Weaver’s personal attention – has been raised with the specific mindset of a self-sacrificing martyr. After learning of the fact that Shadow Weaver has always known about the Heart of Etheria, it is not a huge leap to assume that in her bid for more power, her plan had always been to have Adora unleash the planet’s magic, possibly sacrificing herself in the process. Shadow Weaver had groomed her for this specific purpose.  (It’s one of the reasons for which the subject of Adora’s martyrdom hurts Catra so deeply –she had been witness to the manipulation taking place but was powerless to do anything about it for most of her life)

The other cadets are more well-adjusted and don’t seem to care much about the horde’s ideology or goals, not even Catra who has suffered the brunt of Shadow Weaver’s psychological and physical abuse and has been subjected to her manipulation too.  

The above exchange proves that even if there had been any indoctrination in The Etherian Horde, it has failed in affecting Catra’s judgment. I am legitimately surprised on how little credit her own fans give her and on how her perceptiveness and intellect is dismissed to have her fit into this “brainwashed victim“ agenda for more “sympathy points”.

With that having been said I’ll start this off with a bit of a definition: Religious Trauma Syndrome is a common experience shared among many who have escaped cults, fundamentalist religious groups, abusive religious settings, or other painful experiences with religion.

The symptoms of Religious Trauma Syndrome are comparable to the symptoms of complex PTSD. The symptoms are as follows.

(link in the notes)

I will discuss all of the symptoms and causes by turn and expand upon them.

1)      Cognitive: Confusion, poor critical thinking ability, difficulty with decision-making,

negative beliefs about self-ability & self-worth, black & white thinking, perfectionism,

Hordak’s whole misguided crusade on Etheria is an act of confusion. What on green Earth had ever convinced him that it would work in proving his worth to Prime? Hordak had been confused on the reason of his rejection, self-delusional even.  Hear me out:

Despite what Hordak himself believes, he wasn’t excommunicated because he was useless, he was abandoned for being born defective, aka for existing as he was created.

His inborn defect, by nature of being an unchangeable fact was not something that he could overcome in order to earn back the acceptance of his Maker. To a certain degree, he was aware of this but had refused to acknowledge it and as such, he has framed it to himself as “his defect makes him worthless”.

By overcoming uselessness and proving his competence in furthering Prime’s goals, he had convinced himself that he would be welcome back into his brother’s flock.

He had convinced himself that by proving his usefulness, it would erase his defect. He had given himself a reason for rejection that, unlike an inborn one, could be overcome - worthlessness.  His logic being that Worthless=Defective, if he were useful, he wouldn’t be defective anymore.

He has framed his accidental stranding on Etheria as a trial of faith, not a chance at freedom or bid for power and self-actualization.

In his confused reasoning, he had not realized that by attempting to prove his worth to Horde Prime, he would be in essence, proving that Prime had been mistaken about his deficiency. This was anathema to Horde Prime’s own doctrine – that Prime is all knowing, all powerful and Horde Prime is Never Wrong. His attempts were always destined to fail from the start, the premise was flawed at the core but Hordak’s own wishful thinking prevented him from seeing the fault in his mission.

This is how Hordak sees himself:

This defect => useless => worthless mentality can be observed when he projects onto Catra. I swear, everyone projects onto everyone else in this series.

This is an example of him emulating the only leadership he’s ever known  - that of Horde Prime and exerting Prime’s judgment over a supplicant or Prime – In this case Catra (what Prime would have done to him in the same situation). He imitates Prime’s way of speaking and even his facial expression during Prime’s “speeches” (look at position of his ears in this scene and that little dimple damnit!!!)

(yes, *sigh* I did a spacebat ear position diagram)

Horde Prime has that ear position even when possessing his little brothers to give his grandiose speeches:

Hordak’s and other little brother’s “default” ear position:

It’s worth adding that perfectionism is not only part of a symptom of his cult trauma but also a tenant of Prime’s doctrine making it a double whammy.

2). Emotional: Depression, anxiety, anger, grief, loneliness, difficulty with pleasure, loss of meaning

As they say, a picture says a thousand words…

To call Hordak depressed is like calling the ocean mildly humid.

He is alone, on a planet of primitive aliens (from his perspective) surrounded by potential enemies and in an incredibly vulnerable position due to his illness with no clear end to any of it in sight. He feels nothing for this world other than irritation at his inability to leave it. His only meaning and purpose is returning to his congregation, a purpose he is no closer to fulfilling than he was when he had started a few decades ago. The only open displays of emotion he manifests are that of anger, self-loathing., frustration, fear – in the blanket scene before he comes to his senses completely and starts masking the fear with anger… at the blanket… there was nothing else in the room to be angry at… ridiculous spacebat.

After Catra deceives him about Entrapta, he openly manifests grief and apathy as well.

3).   Social: Loss of social network, family rupture, social awkwardness, behind schedule on developmental tasks, sexual difficulty (no snu snu for religiously repressed spacebats... yet  *wink wink*)  

This one is self-explanatory.  He is in essence an exile on Etheria, away from all he has ever known. He is the only one of his kind on the planet, even Imp - his attempt at replication is not a proper replacement for the community provided by the Hive mind.

From a social perspective- he is a recluse and is not seen interacting with anyone in anything but a “professional “ manner.  The only exception to this is Entrapta’s interaction to him. Due to her indifference to his posturing, she is immune to his attempts at self-isolation. “Get out!” and vague threats of reprimands don’t work on her. Their shared interest in science allows Entrapta to force the interaction on him. (At least in the beginning of their collaboration)

Later, after having become accustomed to Entrapta’s companionship and having that ripped away, he tries to form a connection – at least of commiseration – with Catra:

 Even after she did this to him:

he still tried to form a connection through their shared need to prove their own worth.  

Did you catch that little detail? : “Victory is ours” not “mine”.

4.) Cultural: Unfamiliarity with secular world; “fish out of water” feelings, difficulty belonging, information gaps (e.g. evolution, modern art, music)

…                                

Do I really need to expand on this one? *Sigh* … he is literally an alien to this world, “fish out of water” would be an understatement.

 As we have established, he fits the bill of Religious Trauma Syndrome to a T. He presents all of the symptoms.

Now let’s move onto the causes of it:

 1). Suppression of normal child development – cognitive, social, emotional, moral stages are arrested

This one is self-explanatory. The horde clones and by extension Hordak are severely stunted in their psychological development and that is by design. They are deliberately kept from developing an adult mentality so as to never become a threat to Horde Prime or ever be able to break away from his control. Prime keeps them in a child-like dependency on him as a way to exert his power over them.  Should they ever develop even a budding sense of self, their indoctrination compels them to submit to correction and erasure ensuring that they never surpass this state of learned helplessness. Horde Prime encourages this self-flagellating behavior, deeming it a mercy, even a favor to be granted – to suffer in His Name.

Hordak shows almost no emotional coping mechanisms and manifests child-like tantrums of frustration as an only outlet for his emotions throughout the show. He attempts to hide any other attempt at emotion, with differing degrees of success.

Wrong Hordak is emotionally unstable and is prone to fits of crying. (However, due to the comedic fashion in which his arc is written, I suppose that this could be taken with a grain of salt)

The clones are not only prevented from growing and maturing mentally, they are also robbed of childhoods –having been born in adult bodies and with the necessary knowledge to serve Prime literally programmed into them so as to make them able to serve efficiently from their first breath. As such, they are robbed of their formative years where one individual grows and develops naturally. Those precious experiences are replaced by Horde Prime’s literal programming through the hardware they have installed in their bodies to facilitate Horde Prime’s control over them (without their consent).  In essence, they are a people born pre-”chipped”

Regardless of their actual age, and despite the fact that they are intelligent, capable and responsible individuals, I see the clones as having the emotional maturity of toddlers.

They never had the chance to develop any emotional coping skills, they were never allowed to have emotions to begin with.

2). Damage to normal thinking and feeling abilities -information is limited and controlled; dysfunctional beliefs taught; independent thinking condemned; feelings condemned

This is The Galactic Horde’s core belief:

Along with:

Incidentally, Hordak does his version of this speech trying to puff himself up in front of his soldiers… buuut Catra pushes the Failure button and that snaps him out of his little Prime impersonation moment.  

More dysfunctional beliefs:

Condemnation of independent thinking:

Results in this:

No further explanations are necessary…

3). External locus of control – knowledge is revealed, not discovered; hierarchy of authority enforced; self not a reliable or good source

Prime exerts his dominance throughout S5 by force,

and coercion:    

He is even petty and vindictive enough to force himself into Hordak immediately after his speech and to kill Entrapta with Hordak’s own body.

As for the self not being a reliable narrator… Hordak believed this about his former position.

He is not prone to exaggeration or deception being woefully incompetent in the latter – both perpetrating and spotting it.  We have to assume that this is the way he saw his position in the Galactic Horde.

Season 5 revealed that all of the clones are equally disposable and interchangeable, there are no ranks. They are all equal tools whose sole purpose is furthering Horde Prime’s agenda. Horde Prime has no need for generals or delegating since he is able to inhabit his little brothers and be in more than one place at the same time. Hordak’s job in S5 was that of hall monitor and planetary acquisitions guy…

@cruelfeline​ goes into detail about the dissonance between what Hordak believes and what is actually his position in The Galactic Horde. A link to it is in the notes because Tumblr is being fussy. 

4.) Physical and sexual abuse – patriarchal power; unhealthy sexual views; punishment used as for discipline

Some people have seen this, ugh… form of penetration… ugh again… as rape allegory.

Not a hard thing to do since Prime himself is rape personified and he consistently forces himself onto and into his little brothers, Catra and later, the chipped Etherians.  Prime does nothing but "bad touch" people all of S5 and is particularly enjoying his disciplining of his "wayward little brother", the most unworthy and unlovable amongst his brothers. (According to the extended scene)

Here’s some more of Prime’s touching with rape subtext:

Here’s more of Prime forcing himself into his little brothers – they all seem to fight it and find it painful to some degree despite the fact that they have been conditioned to accept it and welcome it. Prime’s touch is a good thing, even when it hurts them.

Ironically, the one who fights this violation the least is Hordak himself. (this could be either because he’s extra repentant and wished not to further draw Prime’s ire or that his condition of chronic illness has raised his pain threshold)

The process of possession is not seamless and some of the clones appear to be unsettled by it after prime retreats from their bodies.

As much as this Utter Disaster of a clone wanted to finish his little speech about dirt and as much as he was gleefully enjoying it, after Prime was done with him… he just wanted his task over with…

            The very nature of their indoctrination makes them unable to escape what has been done to them nor change their whole world view without outside intervention – which is exactly the help that Wrong Hordak received immediately after being abducted from the collective by people who slowly de-indoctrinated him and offered him a supportive environment for all of that growth and healing to happen.

When the Best Friend Squad kidnapped him, he was ardent about his service to Prime and he only followed them because they deceived him in believing they were servants of Horde Prime.

By providing clear irrefutable evidence of Prime’s fallibility, deceit and the squad’s (mostly Entrapta and Glimmer)  moral support throughout this moral crisis, they (just Entrapta here *coughs* ) were able to wean him off of his programmed behavior and offer him an informed choice.

This is information none of the other clones, not even Hordak were privy to.

Even with this information, Wrong Hordak is still in emotional turmoil (though the show plays it for laughs – yuck)

The closest Hordak ever gets to walking away from Prime’s doctrine is this moment:

He was considering indefinitely putting it off to stay here, with her, and her worldview that he could be worth something, imperfect as he is. He is offered her emotional support and guidance.

Unfortunately... Catra nipped that in the bud before it could lead anywhere.

 After convincing Hordak that Entrapta betrayed him, her message of inherent worth was rendered null, to him - her unconditional affection and the notion that he could to live apart from Prime were a manipulation. This further radicalized him in his faith and need to prove his worthiness.

Not only did Catra remove Entrapta’s influence over him, she goaded him even further with this cursed little speech and her whole “yass queen moment!”. you know the one...

“Get.Over.IT! You don’t need Entrapta. You never did. You don’t need a Princess in your life telling you what to do. Look at what you’ve done without her. You’ve build an army. An empire! You and me, we don’t need anyone. Forget them all. No one matters, nothing matters but this mission. You want to prove yourself, prove your worth? Then do it! You and I are going to conquer Etheria. And then, they’ll all see!”

Both of them were in clear downfall in S4 and they amplified each other’s most negative tendencies. I will not hold this against her. 

             The last thing I want to mention is that for cult victims, it is incredibly hard, if not, almost impossible to leave their cults by themselves. The first step for leaving a cult in the real world is looking for outside assistance.

It takes enormous amounts of strength – an almost imaginable degree of resolve – to leave a cult, particularly when you may have been born into one and have no friends or connections on the outside world. Cult survivors are often ostracized by everyone they have ever known who remain within the organization. To a cultist, the world outside the cult is a hostile, sinful and dangerous place. The assistance of someone from the outside is crucial.

Only with the assistance of a “friendly outsider” or a support group can the former cultist change the world view with which they had been indoctrinated with (sometime since early childhood).

A cult and set of beliefs warps your whole world view to the point of delusion. Faith in the cultic creeds is more important than factual evidence. As  a matter of fact, the evidence in itself is evil, a contradiction to the creeds of faith and successfully denying it is an act of faith fulfilled. This mentality is encouraged in cults.

Many people in this fandom have claimed that Hordak, once pulled through the portal was free to do as he pleases. (he didn’t chose to come to Etheria – his arrival on the planet was accidental)

This is not really the case. Hordak never decided to leave the cult. He was still part of the cult when he was sent to his death on the battlefield for his defect and he was still a believer when the portal delivered him to Etheria.

In essence, Hordak didn’t leave his cult so much as he was forced apart from it, physically. In spirit, he still believed in Horde Prime’s dogma.  His experience is the equivalent of a religious man getting stranded on an island in the middle of the ocean. He is apart from his church, but his faith is still with him. Hordak’s faith hadn’t waned in the decades of separation. His purpose had always been returning to Horde Prime –hence the focus on building a portal and not on levelling towns with an arm laser cannons. He has proven in S4 that, had his main mission actually been conquest, he could have done it with not much difficulty – He wasn’t half bad at it actually. Instead, he delegated the conquest to his underlings and focused most of his attention on attempts at reuniting with Horde Prime via investigating rogue portals and trying to build one of his own.

Due to the nature of his “upbringing”, Hordak’s whole world view is warped. He has not had the benefits of a “moral” education from a human’s standpoint. Why would training cadets to become soldiers in your army be morally reprehensible when you, yourself, had been bred for war and have served your God with your first breath?

This was Hordak’s idea of a “normal” childhood:

What could he possibly know about the healthy raising of children?

Why would conquering a planet be a morally reprehensible thing when his God did this to places?

And this:

Before one ascribes evil motivation, for the sake of evil – one should bear in mind that these creeds were literally programmed into him. This is not a life he has chosen for himself– this is something he was born into, literally manufactured for, this is something that was done to him.

And for those that would have wanted him to regret his actions on screen, keep in mind that it will likely  take a lot of therapy and reeducation before he even comprehends the nature and magnitude of his crimes on Etheria.

(besides the fact that he had spent 99% of season 5 in an amnesiac daze doesn’t help with the whole remembering his crimes bit either)

The show runner has declared in one of her post show interview that he will make reparations for the damage he’s caused.

What more do people want from a person born and flung into an impossible situation besides his head on a plate?

Phew!

Long post was long

[overheard-at-camp-half-blood]

Ok so I love everything in the PJO universe and I found your blog and was reading through it and I was wondering what you meant by the POC’s deserve better I know it’s true but I just got confused and was hoping you could help me understand this topic better. This is coming from a POC themselves thank you so much I love your blog and how you say how you feel on all topics

So, first of all, thank you. Also, I’m sorry for not getting back to you sooner, but as I said, I’ve been busy, and I really wanted to give myself the time to give you a good answer, because I myself am white, so there isn’t much I can tell you from personal experience that would give you an in depth explanation of what’s going on.

So here is a masterlist of information about this topic that I personally found helpful when learning abo these topics. Please read through this, because BIPOC voices are the voices that matter the most, but I will give you a brief summary of each of the issues.

Some of the main issues are;

Hazel’s adultifacation. The issue is that Hazel, a black woman was made younger than everyone else, when she really didn’t have to be. This contributes to an issue in media where black girls are forced to grow up faster than other people around them. Not to mention, making Pluto look like H*tler, and making him the father of a black girl during the time of segregation was a very bad choice.

Piper’s character apparently had a lot of issues, from her appearance to her backstory, but some of the big ones include; feathers, oversexualization, cornucopia and whitewashing of her character. First, I don’t think I need to explain the issues with the feathers and the stereotypes, but also it shows a lack of understanding of the culture. Eagles in particular are sacred and are usually only worn by leaders- and they are not to be worn casually. As for oversexualizing her, it’s problematic enough considering she’s a literal child, but as stated in the post I just linked, oversexualization of indigenous woman is a huge problem in native communities. The fact that she used a cornucopia, a literal Thanksgiving symbol as a weapon is self explanatory. As for whitewashing her character, she is the only character described as mixed race. Now there’s nothing wrong with being mixed race, but the fact that this choice was made for the indigenous character in particular... that’s a problem. This in particular is problematic considering the constant erasure of indigenous people irl.

Rick also responded to criticism about Piper’s character in particular in a very problematic way. His response to being criticized was to accuse people of bullying him, and telling people to move on from being misrepresented.

Also, Rick seems to have an issue with describing BIPOC characters as... BIPOC? He erased a lot of Hazel and Piper nonwhite features, giving Hazel gold eyes and cinnamon hair, and Piper kaleidoscope eyes. They should have both had brown eyes, and Hazel should have had darker hair.

Leo was written well in the beginning, but Rick developed him into being a Mexican stereotype. First of all, the constant flirting is quite obviously stereotypical of Latinx people in general, and there is issues with the “Mamacita” line- it was addressed, but not well.

Reyna isn’t included in this post, because whoever contributed to it deleted their blog, but I have seen criticism from Puerto Rican fans that say that Reyna’s disconnection with her shows that while Reyna is technically representation for them, she was written for white people.

Aside from individual criticism, general criticism includes;

Most of the black characters have died at some point in the series- even Hazel died and came back.

Most BIPOC characters were cheated out of an arc, and most of the big parts of their internal conflicts were fixed off the page (Frank’s stick) or in someone else’s point of view (Leo’s desire to find a family).

I’m sorry, but Rick was willing to make a book about Percy & Annabeth, the characters we know the most about, but couldn’t equal out the point of views of Frank & Hazel with the rest of the seven?

Most of the Latinx characters were bilingual, when it didn’t make sense for them to be. Leo had an unstable life from childhood to his teen years, and there is no way he spent time in enough Spanish-speaking homes to develop their vocabulary. Reyna had been away from her culture for so long too, the same applies to her.

In general, I’ve noticed that both the fandom and Rick’s standards for BIPOC characters are much higher than they are for white characters. I cannot name one character of color that hasn’t been held to a different standard than other characters at some point.

Essentially, no BIPOC character was done well, and every marginalized group that was represented in some shape or form was not done well. The link also points out issues with homophobia and ableism.

The thing is, I think the reason why Rick did get away with it for so long, is because for a lot of these people it was there first time feeling represented, and at the time, there wasn’t a lot of representation to go off- but that doesn’t make it good representation in anyway shape or form. For example

This doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy these books, or these characters, but it’s good to look at how these characters were treated by the narrative. There will be a tv show, which is a good chance for Rick to fix at least some of his mistakes.

Also, if there is anything my BIPOC followers would like to add on, please do. If my information is wrong, please call me out.

[jewishraypalmer]

Alright gonna do this and then (hopefully) just never talk about it again in the spirit of just trying to fucking move on. When I say that Ray Palmer never had a story arc on Legends of Tomorrow outside of a relationship, I mean that shit.  Let’s take a good look. Also I do think that Jax ALSO never had a real story arc and that’s that on that. 

S1 - One could say that his arc was that he wanted to be a hero but that’s not really an arc because they don’t really actually DO anything with that. His part on S1 was to be a road bump for Kendra and for them to have 5 million of the same arguments every episode before she went back with Carter anyway. Obviously Rip has the main story arc here since this was what the premise was originally about. Mick and Snart have big arcs here too in terms of plot AND character. (We’re not going to debate whether the arcs are good lol we don’t have the time I’m just here to state the facts) Stein gets a bit too because of all the stuff they deal with his younger self. 

S2 - Ray is sad for 1.5 episodes about who is he without the ATOM suit and then the show went ok that’s enough of that and moved on. Also a set up for Atomwave which ultimately went nowhere. Again, no actual STORY arc for him here but it is the first of many times we see him being used as a literal welcome mat. This first time is for Amaya. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with this, actually I love that he is the welcome wagon on Legends but when it becomes his only thing, you begin to realize that his stories become in service of other characters (more on this later). 

S3 - Being used as the welcome wagon once again but this time for Zari. And the kicker is that it’s on his OWN FUCKING CENTRIC EPISODE LMAO. Now Phone Home happens to be one of my favorite episodes so again I’m actually not complaining about this but I did recently realize that the episode that is about him actually becomes about how he can help Zari get used to being on the team. Although it still doesn’t cement until the time loop episode. You could say that he has an arc here but it’s not about him, it’s in service to Nora to help HER. But I love them and I love that he helps her so I guess I’m not mad about it but I’m still just stating facts here. Also Atomwave dies towards the end of this season in service of SteelAtom. And I love SteelAtom but I hate that we had to erase all of the development we had with them. 

S4 - Spends the entire season helping and worrying about Nora (not to sound like a broken record but I love them so much that I’m not MAD about it but just solidifying this man really has had nothing to do with his own self or plot this whole time) and THEN becomes Neron for like 4 episodes. For me, this doesn’t count as a plot because it’s not him. And while it’s nice that this is the first time that everyone is worried about him and John is going down to hell to save him, it gets overshadowed by the end. By Nate. Because who has had the entire story arc this season? Nate. When else did we have a story arc about Nate crying about his family? Oh yeah season 2. Oh also another welcome wagon moment for him and Charlie. 

S5 - Basically is nothing but Nora’s boyfriend and then gets married in a rush and then leaves lol. 

As you can see in this bitter recap, there is never a mention of Ray actually really being involved in the PLOT of the show and the one time it happens he isn’t even himself. Or getting to see more of his character outside of the Legends except for one or two episodes where other people get it all the damn time. And I really think that S1 is the root cause of this because if you didn’t get a story arc as an OG, you were pretty much screwed because the new members had to get their own arcs to fit into the show in the continuing seasons. So anyway that’s all and I’m done with this and special thank you to @puppetavasharpe for always listening to me rant about this because I don’t want people to attack me and yet I just made this whole thing so I guess I’ll just let it happen lol also I should make a separate post for Nora because fuck if I don’t have a whole rant for how that went down either