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woman-loving · 3 years ago

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I’ve been reading some articles about lesbian identities in Indonesia, from the late 80s to the 00s, and wanted to share some quotes that highlighted a couple trends that I’ve also noticed in reading about butch/femme communities in other countries.

1) There are different expectations about sexual distinctiveness and marriage to men are attached to butch and femme identities. There is a greater expectation that femmes will marry men, and femmes more often do marry men, though some butches do as well. Marriages to men seem to be for convenience or in name only, and women may continue to have female lovers.

2) Distinctions are made between real/pure/positive lesbians (butches) and other lesbians (femmes) who are “potentially normal.” This shows the flexibility of lesbian identity, where they can be gradations and contradictions in what it means to be a lesbian (e.g. a woman being a lesbian but not a “real lesbian"). The category has cores and peripheries, rather than everyone being equally lesbian or else completely outside of it.

3) There are disagreements between members, which cross butch/femme lines, about the meanings of these identities and whose lesbianism or community involvement should be taken seriously. The first passage describes femmes as engaging in a “more active appropriation of lesbianism as a core element of their subjectivity.” The boundaries of lesbianism can potentially expand or contract as people struggle to define it.

4) People don’t always meet the community expectations attached to their identity.

I think these passages help complicate the picture of what lesbian identities can look like, and some of these same tensions and debates are common features of lesbian identity in many different cultures. I also think these issues--the (differential) weight given to relationships with men, the notion of positive versus negative lesbians, and the active appropriation of lesbianism by peripheral members--are relevant to bisexual interest, since these questions also shape bi women’s engagement in lesbianism/lesbian communities. (And we can say that without claiming that any particular women in these narratives are “really bisexual.”)

Anyway, without further ado... (this first one picks up right in the middle of a passage because I couldn’t get the previous page on the google preview :T)

From “Desiring Bodies or Defiant Cultures: Butch-Femme Lesbians in Jakarta and Lima,” by Saskia E. Wieringa, in Female Desires: Same-Sex Relations and Transgender Practices Across Cultures, eds. Evelyn Blackwood and Saskia E. Wieringa, 1999:

“[...]negative lesbians. We are positive lesbians. We are pure, 100% lesbian. With them you can never know. Before you know it, they are seeing a man again, and we are given the good-bye.”

Father Abraham, who had entered during her last words, took over. “Let me explain. … Take Koes. Again and again her girlfriends leave her. Soon she’ll be old and lonely. Who will help her then? For these girls it is just an adventure, while for butches like Koes it is their whole life.”“Yes, well, Abraham, … my experience is limited, of course, but it seems to me that the femmes flee the same problems that make life so hard for the butches. So they’d rather support each other.”

“In any case,” Sigit added, ‘they have become active now, that’s why they’re here, isn’t that so?” And she looked questioningly at the three dolls behind the typing machine, Roekmi and my neighbour. The most brazen femme had been nodding in a mocking manner while Sigit and I were talking.

“So we’re only supposed to be wives? We’re not suited for something serious, are we? Maybe we should set up a wives’ organization, Dharma Wanita,[23] the Dharma Wanita PERLESIN? Just like all those other organizations of the wives of civil servants and lawyers?” …

“Come on, Ari,” Sigit insisted, “why don’t you just ask them? You could at least ask them whether they want to join?” Ari found it extremely hard. Helplessly she looked at the other butches.

“Do you really mean that i should ask whether our wives would like to join / our / organization?” One of the butches nodded.

“Ok, fine.” She directed herself to the dolls.

“Well, what do you want? Do you want to join us? But in that case you shouldn’t just say yes, then you should also be involved with your whole heart.”

“You never asked that of the others,” the brazen femme pointed out, “but yes, I will definitely dedicate myself to the organization.” Roekmi and the two femmes at her side also nodded. (Wieringa 1987:89-91)

The above example is indicative of the social marginalization of the b/f community. it also captures in it one of its moments of transformation. The defiance of the femmes of the code that prescribes the division of butches and femmes into “positive” and “negative” lesbians respectively indicates a more active appropriation of lesbianism as a core element of their subjectivity. At the same time it illustrates the hegemony of the dominant heterosexual culture with its gendered principles of organization.

Yet, however much the butches conformed to male gender behavior they didn’t define themselves as male; their relation to their bodies was rather ambiguous. at times they defined themselves as a third sex, which is nonfemale[…]. [...] [Butches’] call for organization was not linked to a feminist protest against rigid gender norms. Rather they felt that nature had played a trick on them and they they had to devise ways to confront the dangers to which this situation gave rise. Jakarta’s b/f lesbians when I met them in the early eighties were not in the least interested in feminism. In fact, the butches among them were more concerned with the case of a friend of them who was undergoing a sex change operation. They clearly considered it an option, but none of them decided to follow this example. When I asked them why, all of them mentioned the health risks involved and the costs. None of them stated that they rather preferred their own bodies. Their bodies, although the source of sexual pleasure and as such the object of constant attention, didn’t make it any too easy for them to get the satisfaction they sought or, at least, to attract the partners they desired.

From "Let Them Take Ecstasy: Class and Jakarta Lesbians," by Alison J. Murray, in Female Desires: Same-Sex Relations and Transgender Practices Across Cultures, eds. Evelyn Blackwood and Saskia E. Wieringa, 1999:

Covert lesbian activities are thus an adaptation to the ideological context, where the distinction between hidden and exposed sexual behavior allows for fluidity in sexual relations (“everyone could be said to be bisexual” according to Oetomo 1995) as long as the primary presentation is heterosexual/monogamous. It is not lesbian activity that has been imported from the West, but the word lesbi used to label the Western concept of individual identity based on a fixed sexuality. I have not found that Indonesian women like to use the label to describe themselves, since it is connected to unpleasant stereotypes and the pathological view of deviance derived from Freudian psychology (cf Foucault 1978).

The concept of butch-femme also has a different meaning in Indonesia from the current Western use which implies a subversion of norms and playful use of roles and styles (cf Nestle 1992). In Indonesia (and other parts of Southeast Asia, such as the Philippines, Thailand’s tom-and-dee: Chetame 1995) the roles are quite strictly, or restrictively, defined and are related to popular, pseudo-psychological explanations of the “real” lesbian. In the simple terms of popular magazines, the butch (sentul) is more than 50% lesbian, or incurably lesbi, while the femme (kantil) is less than 50% lesbian, or potentially normal. Blackwood’s (1994) description of her secretive relationship with a butch-identified woman in Sumatra brings up some cross-cultural differences and difficulties that they experienced and could not speak about publicly. The Sumatran woman adopted masculine signifies and would not be touched sexually herself; she wanted to be called “pa” by Blackwood, who she expected to behave as a “good wife.” Meanwhile, Blackwood’s own beliefs, as well as her higher status due to class and ethnicity, made it hard to take on the passive female role.

I want to emphasize here that behavior needs to be conceptually separated from identity, as both are contextually specific and constrained by opportunity. It is common for young women socialized into a rigid heterosexual regime, in Asia or the West, to experience their sexual feelings in terms of gender confusion: “If I am attracted to women, then I must be a man trapped in a woman’s body.” Women are not socialized to seek out a sexual partner (of any kind), or to be sexual at all, so an internal “feeling” may never be expressed unless there are role models or opportunities available. If the butch-femme stereotype, as presented in the Indonesian popular media, is the only image of lesbians available outside the metropolis (e.g., in Sumatra), then this may affect how women express their feelings. However, urban lower-class lesbians engage in a range of styles and practices: some use butch style consciously to earn peer respect, while others reject the butch as out-dated. The stereotype of all lower-class lesbians whether following butch-femme roles or conforming to one subcultural pattern is far from the case and reflects the media and elite’s lack of real knowledge about street life. […]

The imagery of sickness creates powerful stigmatization and internalized homophobia: women may refer to themselves as sakit (sick). An ex-lover of mine in Jakarta is quite happy to state a preference for women while at the same time expressing disgust at the word lesbi and at the sight of a butch dyke; however, I have generally found that the stigma around lesbian labels and symbols is not translated into discrimination against individuals based on their sexual activities. I have been surprised to discover how many women in Jakarta will either admit to having sex with women or to being interested in it, but again, this is only rarely accompanied by an open lesbian (or bisexual) identity. I have found it hard to avoid the word “lesbian” to refer to female-to-female sexual relations, but it should not be taken to imply a permanent self-identity. It is very important to try and understand the social contexts of behavior, in order to avoid drawing conclusions based on inappropriate Western notions of lesbian identity, community, or “queer” culture.

From “Beyond the ‘Closet’: The Voices of Lesbian Women in Yogyakarta,” by Tracy L Wright Webster, 2004:

Most importantly a supportive community group of lesbian, bisexual and transgender women is essential, given that these sexualities are thrust together in Sektor 15. Potentially, a group comprised of women from each of these categories, that is lesbian, bisexual or transgender, may prove problematic to say the least, given that the needs and issues of each group are different. Clearly the informal communities already in existence in Yogya are indicators of this. Any formal or organized groupings would certainly benefit by modeling on current, though informal organisations. In the lesbian network, transgendered women (those who wish to become men or who consider themselves male) are not affiliated, however many ‘femme’ identified women who have been and intend to be involved in heterosexual relationships in the future, are among the group in partnership with their ‘butch’ pacar (Indo: girlfriend/boyfiend/lover).

Organisations of women questioning sexuality have existed in Yogya in the past. A butch identified respondent said she was involved in the formation of a lesbian, bisexual and transgender network in collaboration with another Indonesian woman, who also identified as butch, 20 years her senior. The group was called Opo (Javanese:what) or Opo We (Jav:whatever), the name highlighting that any issue could be discussed or entered into within the group. Members were an amalgam of both of the women’s friends and acquaintances. The underlying philosophy of the group was that “regardless of a woman’s life experience, marriage, children…it is her basic human right to live as a lesbian if she has the sexual inclination”. The elder founding member of this group, now 46, married a man and had a child. She now lives with her husband (in name only), child and female partner in the same home. Although this arrangement according to the interviewee “is rare… because the husband is there, she is spared the questions from the neighbours”. Here I must add that it is common in Java for lesbians to marry to fulfill their social role as mothers, and then to separate from their husbands to live their lives in partnership with a woman. This trend however is more common among the ‘femme’ group.

From "(Re)articulations: gender and same-sex subjectivities in Yogyakarta, Indonesia," by Tracy Wright Webster, in Intersections: Gender and Sexuality in Asia and the Pacific, Issue 18, Oct 2008:

Lesbi subjectivities Since gender, for the most part, determines sexuality in Java, sexuality and gender cannot be analysed as discrete categories.[64] For all of the self-identified butchi participants, lesbi was the term used to describe their sexuality. This is contrary to the findings of two key researchers of female same-sex sexuality in Indonesia. Alison Murray's research in Jakarta in the 1980s suggests that females of same-sex attraction did not like the term 'lesbian'[65] due to its connection with 'unpleasant stereotypes' and deviant pathologies.[66] In 1995, Gayatri found that media representations depicting lesbi as males trapped in female bodies encouraged same-sex attracted women to seek new, contemporary descriptors.[67] The participants in this research, however, embraced the term lesbi as an all-encompassing descriptor of female same-sex attraction and as Boellstorff has noted in 2000, Indonesian lesbi tend to see themselves as part of a wider international lesbian network.[68]

The term lesbi has been used in Indonesia since the 1980s, although not commonly or consistently. Lines, les, lesbian, lesbo, lesbong and L, among others, are also used. Female same-sex/lesbi subjectivities in Yogya are not strongly associated with political motivations and the subversion of heteropatriarchy as they were among the Western lesbian feminists of the 1960s. By the time most of the participants in this research were born, the term lesbi had already become infused in Indonesian discourses of sexuality among the urban elite (though with negative connotations in most cases), and has since become commonly used both by females of same-sex attraction to describe themselves, and by others. Most learnt from peers at school and through reading Indonesian magazines.

However, public use of the term lesbi and expression of lesbi subjectivity has its risks. Murray's research on middle to upper class lesbians suggests that females identifying as lesbi have more to lose than lower class lesbi in terms of social position and the power invested in that class positioning. This is particularly in relation to their position in the family.[69] Conversely, her work also shows that lower class lesbi 'have the freedom to play without closing off their options.'[70] As Aji suggests, young females, particularly of the priyayi class may not be in a position to resist the social stigma attached to lesbianism and the possible consequences of rejection or abuse. Yusi faced this reality despite the fact that s/he had not declared herself lesbi. Hir gendered subjectivity meant that s/he did not conform to stereotypical feminine ideals and desires.

With so much at stake, many lesbi remain invisible. Heteronormative and feminine gendered expectations for females in part explain why lesbians may indeed be the 'least known population group in Indonesia.'[71] Collusion in invisibility can be seen here as a protective strategy. The lesbi community or keluarga (family) is what Murray refers to as a 'strategic community' of the lesbian subculture.[72] The strategic nature of the community lies in its sense of protection: the community provides a safe haven for disclosure. Invisibility, however, also arises through the factors I mentioned earlier: the normative feminine representations of femme, their tendency to express lesbi subjectivity only while in partnership with a butchi, and their tendency to marry. Invisibility, as a form of discretion, however, may also be chosen.

Gender complementary butchi/femme subjectivities [...] Due to the apparently fixed nature of butchi identities and subjectivities and their reluctance to sleep with males, they are seen as 'true lesbians,'[79] lesbian sejati, an image perpetuated through the media.[80] Similar to the butchi/femme communities in Jakarta, in Yogya, butchi are identified by their strict codes of dress and behaviour which include short hair, sometimes slicked back with gel, collared button up shirts and trousers bought in menswear stores, large-faced watches and bold rings. Butchi characteristically walk with a swagger and smoke in public places. In her research in the 1980s, Wieringa noticed that within lesbi communities in Jakarta the strict 'surveillance and socialisation 'may have contributed to the fixed nature of butchi identities.[81] In Yogya, this is particularly evident in the socialisation of younger lesbi by senior lesbi (a theme I explore elsewhere in my current research).

The participants held individual perspectives on butchness. Aji's butchness is premised on hir masculine gender subjectivity and desire for a partner of complementary gender. Yusi expresses hir butchness differently and relates it to dominance in the relationship and in sex play. The participants who told of the sexual roles within the relationship emphasised their active butchi roles during sex. As Wieringa suggests, this does not necessarily imply femme passivity as femme 'stress their erotic power over their butches.'[82] It does, however, indicate one way in which the butchi I interviewed articulate their sexual agency.

Femme subjectivities, on the other hand, are generally conceived of as transient. As many of the interviews illustrate, femme are expected by their butchi partners to marry and have children: butchi see them as bisexual. In public, and indeed if they marry, they are seen as heterosexual, though their heterosexual practice may not be exclusive. In the 1980s, Wieringa observed that femme 'dressed in an exaggerated fashion, in dresses with ribbons and frills...always wore make up and high heels.'[83] In the new millennium, the femme I met were also fashion savvy though not in an exaggerated sense. Generally they wore hip-hugging, breast-accentuating tight gear, had long hair and wore lipstick and low-heeled pumps. Their feminine representations were stereotypical: it was through association with butchi with in the lesbi community that femme subjectivities become visible.

#what is a lesbian #butch femme #indonesia #lgbtq #wlw #lgbtq history

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bestworstcase · 4 years ago

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farran rereads lost lagoon: chapters 16-17

back at it.

re: romance novel: “I saw a patch of red flowers, and I thought they would be striking against Cass’s dark hair. She wasn’t exactly a flower wearer, but maybe she’d let me pin one on her dress? The color would set off her fair skin so perfectly. And she could at least keep some in a vase by her bed. I refused to believe there was a person alive who didn’t feel better with freshly cut flowers in her room.” that’s gay rapunzel

i do admittedly have some ambivalent feelings about this passage. on the one hand it’s - yes, very gay. but also it feels to me like such a clear illustration of the difficulty rapunzel has with empathy and listening to other people when their experiences or expectations or needs diverge from hers; she acknowledges that cass isn’t into flowers, but follows it up with “but maybe i can get her to wear some anyway,” and of course there’s the whole refusing to believe anyone could feel differently about having flowers in their room than she does. and it also has this weird undercurrent of - god, i don’t know how to phrase it in a succinct way.

this specific passage was on my mind when i wrote this bit in moonless air chapter 4:

Still. She plucks at the stitches of her jack-of-plate, self-conscious.

It’s the nicest thing she owns. Soft green velvet sewn over sturdy layers of canvas and steel. Armor. She’d saved up for more than a year to buy it for herself on the anniversary of her adoption two years ago, and at the time it had been nothing but a frivolous luxury. Stupid, really. She’d never had real reason to wear it in Herzingen, not for anything besides teaching herself how to move with its weight and entertaining ridiculous fantasies—but last night, Moira had intimated that their destination in Vardaros is fancy as well as dangerous. So the jack seemed… appropriate.

Sharp. She twitches.

Clothing—fashion isn’t– Cassandra’s always hated dresses. It’s a trait that demands a certain amount of indifference to what other people think of her appearance.

And she can do indifference. Cassandra has indifference in spades. But nobody’s ever paid her a compliment quite like that before: baldly appreciative. Straightforward. Not like all the times Rapunzel coaxed her into tolerating crowns of late-summer flowers because the colors look so nice with your complexion! and not like the Commander’s gruff praise for how grown-up she looked in the hideous pastel gowns that had come with the lady-in-waiting gig.

because – like, cass is butch, and “not a flower wearer,” and here in lost lagoon we have this passage where rapunzel expresses this pretty straightforward attraction to cassandra but in the context of imagining cassandra presenting in a much more feminine way than she is comfortable with - in a dress with flowers in her hair etc - and it just... rubs me the wrong way a little bit. and this is not to say like cass can’t be butch and put a flower in her hair but when it’s paired with rapunzel specifically acknowledging that cass doesn’t WANT to wear flowers then it - yeah i feel weird about this passage.

and that translated into cass having a whole little crisis over being complimented for her appearance without implicit pressure to be more feminine for the first time ever

anyways

i still can’t get over the name monsieur lefleur

rapunzel summarizes hervanian culture as “brash but can be funny; distrustful but not mean-spirited” so, basically, they are americans

she is feeling very Prepared to meet with them, in contrast to every other time she’s met with foreign dignitaries or nobility before this. eugene tries to warn her that cass is PISSED with her and she just brushes him off, as one does, by saying that cass is “not all bubbles and moonbeams” but that she is “a softy” inside.

of course this leads up to cass blowing up and going off while rapunzel tries to calm her down and just - groan this line.

“People don’t change! You told a criminal a detail that puts my entire future at risk!”

how many times have i said “cass doesn’t act this way in tts” i feel like it’s a constant drumbeat. but i have to say, again, that cass doesn’t act this way in tts. i don’t think it’s unrealistic for her to think like this, given that her father is essentially corona’s chief of police and she idolizes him, but i feel the need to reiterate that there is zero sign of cass having this mindset in tts proper. and it does sort of bother me when people read this into cass’s character because it undermines and delegitimizes her dislike of eugene in early s1.

which like. tts itself sort of frames their mutual dislike as a mutual problem, but it’s... really not? and imo the best illustration of this is in this exchange from cassandra vs eugene:

CASSANDRA: Unbelievable. Did you eat all the cookies?

EUGENE: I’m not a pig, Cassandra. I ate all of your cookies; I’m saving mine for later.

CASSANDRA: Ugh– you are nothing but a self-serving, inconsiderate, arrogant freeloader!

EUGENE: [scoffing] You know, I can rattle off insulting adjectives describing your personality, too, but to do so would imply that you actually have a personality, and I just wouldn’t feel right about doing that!

this is the dynamic every time they squabble in early s1.

1 - eugene does something selfish or thoughtless - in this case taking all the cookies and milk for himself.

2 - cassandra calls him out for it, and he doubles down, often taking a potshot at her in the process.

3 - cassandra gets mad and calls his behavior what it is (self-serving, inconsiderate, arrogant)

4 - eugene gets defensive and insults her as a person, typically with variations on calling her icy / unfeeling / humorless / joyless.

which is to say, their fights are initiated by eugene’s poor behavior, and cassandra attacks his behavior but eugene attacks cassandra herself. like, eugene is the dude who insults you and then goes “pfft why can’t you take a joke” when you get upset with him. that’s what this is.

moreover, when eugene’s, for lack of a better term, residual flynn rider-ness starts to taper off, cassandra’s criticism of his behavior also tapers off, AND she gets much gentler about how she phrases this criticism once he starts to actually take it on board. but there’s no accompanying shift in the way eugene speaks to and about her - the jibes about her being humorless or cranky or soulless literally never stop and at no point does he ever seem to consider that cass might not appreciate them as much as he thinks she does.

(to be clear, i don’t think they bother cass very much if at all - but they do create and reinforce a perception on eugene’s end that cass Doesn’t Have Feelings and the background radiation of that contributes to the toxicity that develops in season 2.)

like again, pulling from cassandra vs eugene here, eugene is extremely insulting towards cassandra even when he’s ostensibly coming to her defense:

RANDOM THUG: Look at that, Fancy-Boots has got something to say!

EUGENE: Name-calling? Come on, we’re better than that, aren’t we? Sure, we could sit here and make fun of each other—tease Cassandra for her chronic joylessness, or me for my uncommonly good looks, or you for your poor dental hygiene, tragic fashion sense, robust body odor, and what are clearly woefully misguided decision making skills, but do you really want to go down that road?

ALL OF WHICH IS TO SAY - besides demonstrating an obvious willingness to give eugene another chance once he starts doing the bare minimum to not be a dick to her, cassandra doesn’t like eugene because eugene is an asshole to her and takes the enormous privileges he is given completely for granted.

saying “well she doesn’t like him because he was a criminal and she doesn’t believe criminals ever change” erases that completely and reframes the conflict as cassandra treats eugene unfairly because of bigotry that she needs to unlearn. lost lagoon takes this even one step further in that lost lagoon eugene is genuinely trying to be responsible, he is taking his new lot in life seriously. he doesn’t need cass to tell him off for acting like an ass because he doesn’t act like an ass. he shows actual interest in getting to know cass and makes an effort to break through her hostility in order to get along. unlike his tts counterpart, lagoon eugene really doesn’t do anything wrong, and that makes cassandra’s intense hatred of him on the grounds that he was a thief look completely irrational and, like i said, bigoted.

it’s just very frustrating to me.

anyways

rapunzel tries very hard to persuade cass that it’s actually totally fine that she told eugene the secret because she just can’t keep secrets from eugene (except the lagoon which she has arbitrarily decided is totes fine to keep secret and i am pretty sure this contradiction never gets pointed out) - and cass is having none of it, and of course arianna interrupts before anything can get resolved.

they rush out and monsieur lefleur interrupts them, asking questions about the lost lagoon. he reveals that he heard an ~elegant cloaked person~ inquiring about it in the library. he asks for the book. they say no. the red herring smells to high heavens, and the chapter ends with rapunzel subtly telling cass to hide the book ~for the safety of the kingdom~ and oh my god i just can’t handle the low stakes.

seventeen picks up from there with cassandra’s point of view; she’s suspicious of lefleur and angsts a lot about how she has no time to train and she needs to get out of corona yada yada. her plan is literally to just walk until she finds someone to hire her on as a guard which. lol. this kid.

i feel like this is the strongest passage in the whole book:

She said there couldn’t be any secrets between Eugene and her. But why—especially when it meant sacrificing my future and everything I held dear? I’d read about romantic love in poems, and it seemed to me like a spell. Sounded great for the lovebirds, but what about the other people.

Did I just not matter in the face of this love, even though I had been the one to risk everything to show Rapunzel the world? Was I just supposed to fall on my sword because Eugene was uncomfortable that he didn’t have every last piece of information about Rapunzel?

she has a brief argument with owl, who is a pretty obvious stand-in for her own doubts / feeling that she truly belongs in corona and doesn’t actually want to leave. but she has no choice! but it’s stormy, so she can’t leave! oh no!

(i think if tts really strongly felt she had no choice but to free corona, a measly thunderstorm would not be enough to stop her.)

#lost lagoon reread #cassunzel

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hbdttg · 3 years ago

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lucius and harvey are a comedy duo. fascistic meathead culture at the gcpd? yes please

barbara’s character arc is all over the fucking place, someone please explain to me what they did to her. one second she’s out of her coma and “sane and remorseful”, then she’s positively batty with butch and tabitha, then she’s vaguely on the dark side at the van dahl manor, and now, 6 months after the end of s2, she’s just back on her bullshit and running the sirens club with tabitha? what...happened?? the decline/spiral from being released from arkham/getting rejected by jim to...whatever is happening now was not well executed

bruce-clone is incredibly unsettling and the scoring in his scenes does NOT help at all WHATSOEVER

the oswald/ed arkham visit scene was obviously art, for many reasons. ed looked damn fine with his wavy, unstyled hair (bc arkham ed is SUPREME). also, it’s implied they’ve been talking consistently for six months now...that is literally dating, thank you very much. also, ed’s voice is so low/deep, clearly a departure from s2 ed, but he still calls oswald ‘mr. penguin’ and it makes me feel things. also, oswald’s damn smile when ed presents the origami penguin...SWOOn

i can’t believe strange made a bat-man. just...a dude with nails and a black cape and who screeches in a very echolocation-eqsue manner. not to mention, in his second scene, he has a distinctly bat-like nose, and oh also BAT FUCKING WINGS. lmaooooo hugo strange was into batman before it was cool, sorry bruce, you poser fuck

someone pls explain to me why jim handcuffed valerie to the door handle of her own car. am i not understanding cars right now? can’t she just unlock the car, pull the handle, and then slip the handcuff off the handle??

broooo not alfred and bruce talking about the new alarm system installed at wayne manor and then talon just appearing inside the house, seemingly unimpeded

the day has come! after two whole ass seasons (and the 1st episode of a third season), jim gordon has finally gotten his own apartment. my fav thing about it is that our first introduction to the place is just valerie vale positively roasting the shit out of it

a genuine shudder at fish calling strange ‘daddy’. WHY

the strange creation (i don’t want to call them monsters D:) who apparently goes by the name of nancy is just...female bane. wears a bunch of black. has a voice-modulating mask contraption. fights a bunch. ipso facto, bane. change my mind. you cannot.

v interested in butch’s thoughts/loyalties/motivations rn. oswald is creating a whole smear campaign against fish, and butch is...neither defending her nor verbally backing oswald. but his silence is interesting. his last encounter with fish was on the bridge, and rather fearful, as if he’d seen a ghost (understandably), but before that he’d been struggling with his programming on the roof and actually tried not to kill her. (of course, the compromise was that he hurt both fish and oswald equally, which we can count as a neutral win i suppose.) so, as a person with his own free will, and with a long, devoted history with fish, why do we not see him trying to seek her out, or, at the very least, trying to dissuade oswald from running her name through the mud? he was so devoted to her s1, it’s strange to me that that would just dissipate. (and, if we remember their run-in with fish when she whisks oswald away from ed’s ultra gay exploits at the greenhouse, butch expresses an awed fondness for her, like always, so we can assume that he’d never actually stopped admiring her)

“don’t tease” << I’M SCREAMING (always). gobblepot is real that shit was so loaded what the fuck

gotham is fucked up, y’all, these people, CIVILIANS, just straight up killed people (though, admittedly, “monsters”), and they’re out here celebrating and cheering and holding a damn bonfire. i can’t with this fucking city i hate it here

“who the hell are you, jim gordon?” “shut up for once” << can i just tell y’all that i, out loud, said “ew” and chugged some wine

[also, directly following up the valerie/jim kiss with the shot of lee returning to gotham was EXCELLENT]

#gotham #lazy gotham season 3 rewatch #episodes 1-2 #i had many thoughts about 3x1 but then my browser decided to refresh the page before i could save my post as a draft????#i rewrote them from memory but...wine so...memory (?)#hbd

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traceofexistence · 3 years ago

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your post is baffling. wtf is man envy? that's kind of a gross misunderstanding of a character. if you're speaking on its literal words 'man' and 'envy' ... it still makes no sense. there are no examples of that in the anime whatsoever, it just reads like you're putting your bias against a version of a character you dislike. it's bad faith criticism at its finest.

that whole post reads like you have a poor understanding and dislike towards butches.

lol anon, I have zero problem with butches in fact I love them, what 90s anime haruka is is not a butch that's the problem. cis-het men wrote her as a cis het man, the proof is in the voice actress words when she said "she does dross dress but she's still a girl so they are a gay couple" and the answer she got from the production was "they are not a gay couple" what more proof you need? (Link in the source)

unless you imply that the voice actress lied. Pick your fights anon, Haruka was written TERRIBLY in the 90s anime, and I was also victim of that interpretation of hers, but then I read the manga, and I grew up, and I saw clearly.

I have a deep love for Haruka as a character and Michiru as a character and I love them as a couple more than any other fiction couple ever. to tell me that I dislike her is hysterical. My criticism comes from a long study on the characters for years, and the 90s anime has done a lot of things that have not aged well at all.

as for man envy is something cis-het men come up with to criticize lesbians, especially butches. 90s anime Haruka exhibits traits that are most seen in cis-het fragile men who envy other men. How many times they wrote Haruka to be jealous of men? at least 2 and one of them was a flipping child. (considering that there were ZERO of them in the manga)

your only problem is that I dared to criticize the 90s anime anon, not that cis-het men destroyed a beloved character with their cis-het stereotyping because they couldn't stand that a woman as beautiful as Michiru would not be interested in men.

Naoko was appalled with how they made Haruka.

#haruka tenoh #haruka tenou #sailor moon #say you love the 90s and move #no need to pretend that you care about lesbians #harumichi #fanfic of the two is plagued with the 90s anime interpretation and all there is Haruka being jealous of some man #that she pretends to be a man 24/7 and that's the only reason Michiru ever falls for her #99% of harumichi fanfic show a michiru who is not a lesbian let that sink in for a second

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brittie-frog · 4 years ago

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Haunting of Bly Manor

Right.

I love horror and after spending sometimes days watching video essays on gay history, specifically in (horror) movies and film, I now kinda understand why so with the Haunting series and its gay rep and them not being the villain of the story, I loved it.

(Quick note I have only rewatched the show twice and can only take from my own experience of media)

My phone also knows me so will suggest news stories on things I've recently watched or current murder cases. So it suggested me this story today:

I went in open minded knowing that some people were angry about the ending falling into the 'kill the gays' trope (which I will come back to).

At first it was fine, talking about the ghost story/love story comment and how it relates to the show and has good analysis that I agree with. Then it goes on to basically summarise the show.

It keeps mentioning that all the gay subtext is implied:

why Dani broke up with her fiance

why Jaimie is reluctant to be vulnerable with Dani (before the monologue)

And that there needs to be a “lot of filling in between the lines” to understand their romance despite their practically constant flirting (Jaimie's 'Poppins' for Dani is the cutest nickname) and multiple kissing scenes. However, I digress, it can be sometimes hard to understand certain attitudes to each other at the beginning.

It also states that its like they want on the pat on the back for "making them queer, without making anything about them very queer". I don't know what this means, but I took two interpretations:

That not all queer people need to stereotypically look queer to be and that is a step forward for gay rep (I prefer)

That the creator wants to be celebrated for making gay rep without truely showing their queerness (which I think is pretty false)

Then it talks about the fireside chat and Jaimie's backstory, describing the monologue as "shoehorned" into the scene and "devoid of any mention of her sexuality". This is where the first part of my 10 minute research for context comes in. This is set in 1987 in a small town in England with an American. In charge of England at the time was the famously homophobic Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher that implemented Clause 28. No one in this setting and right mind - especially after being ridiculed for most of her life - would come out to any one, flirting or not, that they have known for at most a month or two. Also, this entire scene resolves around Jaimie's attitudes towards people, and why she's reluctant to get close to people, favouring taking care of her flowers over interacting with others.

Then it talks about Owen and Mrs. Grose having "more meaningful screen time and backstories that continue throughout multiple episodes".

First Hannah. We basically get Hannah's entire backstory in episode 5: how she met Owen, scenes of her working at the Manor (in non-chronological order) and how she died in the first episode. Then that continued into the final episode when she finally comes to terms with her death and her love for Owen to save everyone. We don't actually get much backstory in the way of her childhood or even how she met the family (from what I remember, correct me if I'm wrong).

Now Owen. His backstory is that he grew up in Bly, left to go to France and became a Sous Chef, only coming back because his mum got diagnosed with dementia and he needed to take care of her despite her constantly mistaking him for other people. That is also only explored through Hannah's memories of the interview and the bonfire-side chat.

Those are both sad backstories but you can't call them any more or less meaningful than Jaimie's of in depth about how her and her family were ridiculed and bullied throughout her life and even spent time in juvie. They all have points mentioned in their stories that I would love more indepth on: how Hannah met the family/met Sam, either Owen's childhood in Bly or his time in France and why Jaimie spent time in juvie. But I also realise this is a short series that has to make fleshed out characters and tell an entire story in 8 episodes.

The article then talks about how even the ghosts got an entire episode to themselves when they barely show up. If you look in the background of the majority of scenes you'll see them and personally I really enjoy getting their stories of how they died. However, that episode is about more than just finding out about the ghosts and Viola's life, it’s mainly about what led to her being the first ghost and causing other dead people to stay as ghosts and the origin of those specific words that give a ghost access to an alive person’s body, to help explain the majority of the show. If I showed my friend this show and removed that episode I would have more questions asked than when my mum finished it.

Now I don’t know what to say. I agree there is no law on art so it can be anything and I usually think that the haunting series are in a slightly different universe (it’s how sleep at night knowing that someone can’t be so stubborn they become a murdering ghost) but also yes, trans-roles should be given to trans people more often. However they are actors and their job is to play some they aren’t for entertainment so for the most part I agree with Scarlett about being able to play anything. Also yes the self-congratulatory approach after playing an LGBT+ character when you’re cishet is kinda bad unless you have the full support of the community telling you it was a good portrayal and accurate representation. It won’t be enough for minorities if our representation, that people outside the communities are calling great, are just surface level characters that are just there for tokenism but you can’t compare Bly Manor characters to those types of characters. All of them have so much development and are well done that the majority of the community that has watched the show have no problem with and love their representation.

Personally I love both Theo Crain and Jaimie and Dani because they represent different things. Theo Crain is on a basic level. as a lothario, a stereotypical butch lesbian, constantly hooking up and struggles to actually open up and love people. Dani and Jaimie are soft, domestic cottage core lesbians in a flower shop AU. This is not a bad thing and just because they have a “tepid romance” doesn’t mean it’s a step back. Also more context time:

As said before Thatcher was in charge and heavily homophobic, creating laws to stop people from teaching children about homosexuality since gay sex had been decriminalised recently

It was the middle of the AIDs epidemic. Dani was coming from a country that was doing nothing about the deaths of thousands and going to a country where hysteria about AIDs was rampant but they were doing more, like the ‘AIDs: don’t die of ignorance’ information leaflet despite it not being as huge with 46 deaths by 1984. (That assumes that the AIDs epidemic happened in this universe)

Dani clearly had some form of internalized homophobia before even coming to England because she spent so long with her fiance hoping to feel the way she’s supposed to (I think the ghost of him is her guilt and internalized issues personified as it constantly appears when she’s trying to move forward.)

Also in the final episode it shows that is probably at least some homophobia in America as they kiss in the shop then look outside and go to the back so no one can see. (This could be interpreted as seeing if anyone is planning on coming in so they can escape without having to stop early for customers but Jaimie had already changed the sign to closed.)

Now onto the ‘kill the gays’ trope. Yes this is a huge trope that is so damaging to the community that we’re constantly the ones killed off for views or when their tokenism is no longer important, that is fucked up! However this doesn’t mean that we should give every gay character plot armour, cause that’s also unrealistic, just to please the select few that will call it out as a damaging trope. There is huge difference between say, The 100 killing Lexa and Bly Manor killing Dani as one has plot relevance and brings the story to a close while the other enraged an entire generation so much they started a brand new convention to celebrate queer relationships/characters in media. It’s also not like she was the only one to die, it’s horror after all, Hannah, Rebecca and Peter, the parents and all those ghosts died or were already dead.

Like many of the comments on the article - If all you got from this show was it falls into kill the gays, you have completely missed the entire point of the show.

#bly manor netflix #haunting of bly manor #dani and jamie #just my thoughts #ramblings #this is a product of my frustration

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cinaed · 4 years ago

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Red vs Blue Season 3 Rewatch

Slowly making my way through my DVD collection of Red vs Blue!

"You can't die! I'm bored!" Donut is so ruthless in the earlier seasons and I love it.

We really needed more Tex and Sheila girltime, talking about gender inequality and workplace harassment.

Simmons actually calling himself Simmons 2.0 manages to be both hilarious and sad.

Yes, Sarge and Caboose team up! Season 3 has some of my favorite odd couples, and Sarge and Caboose is one of my favorites. Sarge being furious that Doc has a higher body count than he does, Caboose's dedication to nap time.

I love Caboose's moral boost! He's great at compliments even if Sarge doesn't appreciate them.

I know these zealots were like a mostly one-off joke, but also like...they could be a creepy potential experiment in making soldiers that can't die, which I wouldn't put past anyone in the Halo universe.

I love the blame game of who came up with the plan that ended up with everyone scattered across the galaxy. Sarge: "My only choice is to blame Grif, for coming up with such a flawed plan. Stupid, stupid Grif." Grif: "I should have never listened to Donut's stupid fucking plan."

Church and Grif in jail is one of my all-time favorite things.

Simmons is such a tech savvy guy, reworking the teleporters to make them communication devices as well! He just wants some love and support.

Caboose getting angry. I mean, who wouldn't get angry at kittens with spikes that you couldn't cuddle?

"Simmons, you get an F in efficiency. But I have to give you an A+ in dramatic timing."

I do love O'Malley and Doc's dynamic. The Do Not Call list!

I love Tex's half-truths about the Freelancers.

Also love Sarge calling Caboose a little rascal and Simmons just seething with jealousy. And he's also jealous about Donut!

Church: There's no "I" in team, Grif. Grif: Yeah, there's no "U" either. So I guess if I'm not on the team, and you're not on the team, nobody's on the God damn team. The team sucks!

I may or may not quote that to myself on a weekly basis.

Again, just Church and Grif together in that prison cell is sheer perfection. As is Church going "Wait, the people outside sound like they're winning, that can't be our teams."

Tucker likes Sheila so much! And she packed them food! Well, the AI equivalent of food, but it's the thought that counts! Just the sheer affection in Tucker's voice as he promises her they'll be back gave me emotions.

And another good moment of Simmons being the one to suggest they track down Grif, because no one else was going to.

In retrospect, Grif has clearly watched some prison pornos. Like... Buddy.

Wyoming calling Tex Allison has so many interesting implications.

Simmons re-engineers stuff, Sarge makes a weather control device. Where's the AU where Sarge is a mad scientist.

Simmons asking Grif if he's okay after prison. Just loving the slow build of friendship between them.

Also big parallels of Church's "Misery loves company" and his willingness to let the bomb blow them all up together to later seasons stuff.

I still love that everyone's go-to explanation for stuff is "time travel."

Donut is too thin-skinned about criticism for his play. He'd never survive on Broadway, lol. But I love everything about the time travel show.

How is Tucker the smartest person in this group? But also Tucker being so worried about Church. I am having a lot of Tucker feelings this season.

I love Grif's devotion to cheesy disaster movies.

Caboose: Look what I found. Donut: I found it! Caboose: Look at what I took credit for finding.

Poor Donut! A grenade to the head and now his hand got chopped up.

Grif: Hey, what're you doing? Simmons: What does it look like I'm doing, I'm getting in the jeep. Grif: What're we, on a date? Get in the back. Simmons: Oh you're so insecure.

I would've watched an entire season of Doc and O'Malley and Lopez's Lair Improvements. And when Doc mentions a real estate agent all I can think of is an AU where Doc meets Kai because she's running her business on the side while in the military. But also Doc's motivational powers in the living room, O'Malley's belief that the cat won't hang on until Friday, it's great.

The iconic jeep conversation is still good now as it was back then. Re-enacting Dukes of Hazzard! "I can tell you what we weren't doing."

Grif's mind immediately going to gay stuff as a favor from Tex. Between this and his prison conversation with Church, someone is protesting way too much.

Sarge's plans are so amazingly terrible. I love them.

Grif getting choked up over hating Blue Team and Tucker and missing the days where they all just stood around and talked a lot.

Tex sounding genuinely concerned when Tucker falls into the hall. Luckily he gets a cool sword out of it!

Tex's conversation with Simmons about shooting Lopez's head is a great example of an eloquent helmet look. Tex doesn't even say a word and you can feel the disbelief and rage when Simmons implies she may have missed.

Church: Caboose, I know you're there. I'm leaving this message from two thousand years in the past. Whatever you do, don't, touch, anything. Apparently you're this culture's version of the apocalypse. You're going to destroy this building, and somehow bring about doom for their entire race. Caboose: Mmmmmmnooo... that doesn't sound like me. I like people. And buildings also.

Time for some actual time travel or at least a simulation. But I do love Butch Flowers, haha. Whose greatest enemy is apathy! Love watching Church just make his own life worse. Also love the bit about Sheila having been made in Mexico.

"Man... First I kill myself, then I realise I'm a honkin' dork. Not a very good day to be me."

Church: I learned a very valuable lesson in my travels, Tucker. No matter how bad things might seem- Caboose: They could be worse. Church: Nope, no matter how bad they seem, they can't be any better, and they can't be any worse, because that's the way things fucking are, and you better get used to it Nancy. Quit yer bitching.

Grif and Simmons and Sarge talking about the Blues, and Simmons saying he's not looking for friends and doesn't like his current crop AKA he just accidentally admitted Grif is his friend. Grif just didn't realize it.

Between the warthog and monkeying about discussions, Church and Grif really are on the same wavelength.

I love the scheming versus plotting conversation.

Ugh, the arrival of Andy. I hate him so much.

Haha, Simmons lying about his math skills is great.

Uuuugh, Andy. :/ Freckles is SUCH a step up as Caboose's AI murder buddy.

"Do we really have to seize destiny? Can't we just invite it to join our online circle of friends?"

I love Lopez's little rebellion-- he might be under O'Malley's control, but he's also going to sabotage O'Malley as much as possible. And tricking O'Malley into insulting himself in Spanish.

I really forgot that Tex straight up tried to steal Tucker's sword.

Military law is very clear in regard to the "not it" methodology for making decisions. Sorry, Donut.

I forgot that Donut can speak Spanish. In fairness, so did the show.

Hello, Crunchbite!

Next up, the PSAs!

Some of these have aged poorly... Like, uh, jokes about 2004 politics do not land well in 2020. And uh jokes about colds and flus. ...Okay, the Christmas PSA where Church destroys the Reds' Christmas tree, tells Caboose the truth about Santa Claus, gives everyone knock-off coal, convinces Church that Santa is now wearing blue and working only for the Blues, and scams Tucker out of a $350 gift is pretty funny though.

I enjoyed Burnie playing himself in the outtakes by putting words he can't pronounce in his own script. And Grif singing Happy Birthday to Church in prison. Also poor Geoff being told to adlib and immediately having Grif start to tell Church "You're looking buff, man, have you been working--" and being immediately booed by everyone, and someone says they'll use it for an outtake and Geoff is like "It's funny! And I didn't even get to finish!" And everyone trying to figure out Tucker's sword and him accidentally killing everyone in various outtakes. And in the deleted scenes Tex keeps making fun of O'Malley's plans to rule the universe, haha. Also the deleted scene that's just another Simmons' self-insert fanfiction, just as a video instead of a fake game in the Fan Guide.

It also gave us character profiles! I'm sure a lot of this has since been contradicted in canon, but interesting that we got specific hometowns for a few people: Donut in Leggatt Plains, Iowa, which doesn't seem to be a real place; Moscow, Iowa for Sarge, which actually does; Tucker's from Detroit, and Delta Commune for Doc. Oh, is this where we get Caboose grew up on the moon, with his hometown being labeled as Low G Colony, Moon? And hey, I always had him be a middle child, I like that this one did too. Tex likes money and scars and dislikes Donut. Okay I know that's definitely not real, but the idea of Allison growing up in an orphanage hurts me a little. Okay, and I know for sure that Simmons would die of happiness at the fact that Sarge's likes are battles, fringe science, and Simmons. Lopez likes oil and unions, and hates capitalism. My kind of guy. Last but not least, I actually really like Simmons as the son of a bunch of right-hand stooges (who probably wanted power for themselves).

#Red vs Blue #rvb rewatch #long post

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gefdreamsofthesea · 4 years ago

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I have read the Dark Wood Tarot book so here are my impressions:

It's presented as a deck for Shadow Work and the Fool who journeys through the cards is called the Shadow Witch. The artwork has a very gothic romance feel, like fairy tales with a bit of an edge.

It's a very RWS deck with the exception of a couple cards (more on this in a sec), majors are unchanged except they drop the "The" in their titles, the courts are also unchanged. There are a bunch of spreads I've forgotten about, but no Celtic Cross which is good because I hate it.

As I said, it's basically a RWS deck but only the swords and wands have a majority of human characters. The cups have animals and the pentacles have plants (particularly creepy trees). Most of the images are similar enough to the RWS system that most people shouldn't have issues with it.

Then there's the Four of Wands.

For those who are unfamiliar with tarot, the four of wands is usually seen as the "celebration" card--weddings, graduations, happy times with the community. The four of wands in the Dark Woods Tarot depicts an ugly grumpy bridge troll. The guidebook does talk about bridges being thresholds of a sort, and you could argue that the card typically depicts a rite of passage but also I hate it, I hate it so much.

There's a story to go with the deck about how the Shadow Witch meets a boy and falls in love with the boy but then the boy disappears and she cries lots. And at first I was like "ew heteros" but there are a couple cards that are really gay (Judgement has her offering her neck to a lady vampire, for instance) and the epilogue to the story is basically her deciding boys ain't shit (and that she decides when she wants a relationship) so I have determined she is bisexual.

Speaking of sex, this deck is very erotically charged, shall we say. The Lovers are fucking (while a hooded figure watches), the Queen of Pentacles is naked and clearly living her best life. The Sun is also a naked woman on a horse. I mentioned Judgement.

I really like the darker takes on some of the cards. The four of swords, for instance, depicts a man with "dastardly gloves" (actual words in the book) looming over a sleeping (or is she?) woman with three swords above his head. The woman is gripping the last sword and it looks like she's about to stab him. The eight of swords depicts a woman with a noose around her neck and rats gnawing at a crate under her feet (the noose is loose so she could escape if she wanted) the six of pentacles is called "Devil's Deal" and depicts a red devil creature giving a girl coins while another girl signs a contract. The five of swords is somebody actually being tortured. The ten of swords implies that at least one of the woman's stab wounds is self-inflicted. That said, I feel like some cards have some unfortunate implications. The Empress is basically a typical Empress card, but the Emperor, who is called her consort....is a goat. Wtf empress lady? Also why is there a creepy clown in the nine of wands?

There are some poc in this deck. There aren't very many though. Some of them appear to be East Asian but the way the artist draws eyes most of them have that teardrop shape. Strength has an Indian lady on it though. The only difference in body type I saw are "some characters have slightly bigger thighs" but they are basically all skinny. I do like that a couple of the pages (all girls) are butch and the knights are femme. Also the Pentacles court just looks like a bunch of nice people.

Overall, I really like this deck even though I really hate a couple cards, was not expecting deck to be this sexy.

#dark wood tarot #tarot

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werevulvi · 5 years ago

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I feel like I should get deeper into my choice to take on the nonbinary label. Is it based on misogyny? Yes. Absolutely, yes. But a woman simply protecting herself from misogyny is not complicit in the misogyny that she is forced to face. Radical feminists should know that, I think. However, I realise that I may have missed to communicate that clearly. Allow me to try better, and dig deeper into my wounds.

Identifying as nonbinary does give me a sense of relief, a sense of wholeness - a relief to be whoever I want and feel allowed to just exist as my authentic self, free from either fucked up gender stereotype, thgose of both men and women - which might sound good on the surface level... but looking deeper, through my radfem eyes, what it means, is this: Why do I feel like I cannot be my authentic self as a woman, all of a sudden? There we have it, the big bleeding wound in my heart, and that's what I feel a need to elaborate on. I'll stay out of the nonbinary tag this time. This isn't for them. (Although anyone can reblog, comment or give a like.) What do I actually want, for myself, if it wasn't for society? I wish to continue transitioning. I wanna go back on testosterone as I deeply miss it and I'm panicking about my body hair thinning out and decreasing. I do not want to lose it for the world! I'm holding onto every single one of my vanishing hairs, for dear life! At the same time, I still wish to get new boobs. I still miss them sorely and I just need to have those kinda body parts again. I feel broken without boobs, I panic without T. I cannot explain it. It's weird alright, but I don't give a fuck! Without societal imput that's just how I want to look and love looking like. It's just body mods. At core, that's what it is: just body modifications. You know that as radfems - I know it just as well.

I love my body when it's masculinised yet retaining all of my originally female parts, such as curves, breasts and my pussy. That makes me feel very positively connected to my body; so to the point that it makes me feel entirely at peace with that I'm female, and very comfortable with that it makes me a woman. But I cannot be okay with being female if I had to be a traditional looking woman, or even a butch-looking woman. That is not ME, neither of those would be my authentic self. So, my medical transition deeply matters to me, as body mods, and I will not walk away from that. I believe that continuing my medical transition while still honouring my female body and womanhood is what is right for me personally. I understand that there is an issue with the beauty industry affecting me too, but I'm clearly not making myself beautiful for men - nor am I making myself ugly for them. What I'm doing is making myself beautiful for me, in an unconventional way, even though it makes me also ugly for most other lesbians. Can you understand then, from that perspective, how deeply important it is for me, that I willingly make such a sacrifice? (I'm already in a happy lesbian relationship, so maybe you can't, but alright.) I do not believe that I mod myself out of self hate. Not anymore, because I did in the past, and I believe that I can tell the difference between living as a man while actively attempting to escape one's female biology - and living as a male-passing woman while actively honouring my beautifully modified female body. You may think I'm mutilated, but I'd disagree. I am beautiful and my high self-esteem greatly surpasses such rudeness.

Is a heavily tattooed woman self-hating for her mods? I don't know what you may think, but if not, then neither am I with my beard and deep voice and future fake tits. An intentionally virilised (fancy word for masculinised, I like it quite a lot), modified woman is what I am, want to be and remain as. I do not have any "social dysphoria" accompanying my body/sex dysphoria since I recovered from my traumas, and thus I feel no need or wish what so ever to call myself a man, and I feel good calling myself what is true in science: female, girl, woman, she/her, lady, ma'am, miss, etc.

I believe that I have somehow managed, against all odds, with the help of radfems on tumblr... to balance transitioning my dysphoria with being a self-loving biological woman. Thank you for that. So what's the catch? I mentioned misogyny. Well, socially, as a male-passing, yet suspiciously curvy and overtly effeminately styled person - I have effectively lost my right to be a woman outside of radblr. I want you to understand this, especially other radfem's, so please listen carefully if you've got a few minutes, because this is important, as it absolutely has to do with both female oppression as well as trans ideology bullshit (and I'll try not to scream this time, but I can't make any promises, because this is deeply painful and upsetting to me.) Can't women take testosterone and like it and still be women? That's what's so complicated, and I need to be upfront and clear about why. Technically, yes of course that is possible. No one can or should stop women from taking T if they truly want a beard and permanently deep voice, right - but is it possible socially? No, in my experience it is not, and I will now try my best to explain to you what I mean by that, as it's kinda abstract. There are two aspects to this. Firstly, any female person claiming to want those physical features is going to be told that they then cannot be a woman. They are told that is incorrect thinking, that they are a trans man or nonbinary, that they have internalised transphobia or that they are indeed a "cis" woman but confused and should NOT take testosterone, implying that will make her dysphoric if she really is a woman. Because trans ideology says so.

Secondly, living as a male-passing woman who does not want to pass as female, was something that I found to be so difficult in practice that eventually it became too much for me. It isn't dysphoria-inducing, not at all. But it's very, very frustrating and constantly challenging. I can no longer access women's spaces so I have to put up with using the men's including locker rooms, convincing people of my still female sex is next to impossible (even doctors!), other women view me as a threat and an imposter, I'm frequently barred from lesbian spaces unless my girlfriend invites me to them first, I am frequently mistaken for being a poorly passing trans woman, and so on.

I'm effectively forced to either live as a trans woman (which I'd feel is degrading, untrue, and deceptive) or to claim a transmasculine label to at least be able to infer that I'm "afab" - but a WOMAN? No. Woman, in the eyes of society as it is today - cannot be a happily male-passing, dysphoric female. That is deemed an oxymoron. Gender has taken presendency over sex. People assume, wrongfully, that my "gender identity" is woman - and they assume, just as wrongfully, that my sex is male - and they make both those assumptions at once. They then refuse to accept that they are wrong, no matter how hard I have tried to explain it, over and over ad nauseum. I don't even understand why that keeps happening!

Therefore, I've come to the sad conclusion that I'm simply no longer welcome into society as a woman, based on my choice of looks, as I am indeed happily transitioned and do not wish to change what testosterone improved on my body. I completely refuse to. Not to be dramatic, but... I'd rather fucking die. My body is not a property of society. It is MY property. My ONLY true property. And I'll decorate it however I so damn well please. But what can I do about it, being treated like that? Realistically, in actuality, what CAN I possibly do about it? Honestly, not much. I can either suck it up and "admit" to being a man, or I can fight endlessly and keep explaining how I'm really a woman, or choose some kinda middle-road like nonbinary, but I cannot win that fight. Perhaps (hopefully) radical feminism can, but me, as a single, individual person? No, I cannot win that battle. I stand defenseless against a massive army, and that enemy has worn me out. I have essentially lost my right to be a woman, by being my authentic self. That is very, very sad. It scares me, it honestly mortifies me, but I have to deal with it somehow. I can't just slump down and cry about it, no matter how tempting that is.

I do not think that my experience with this is entirely unique. I believe I probably share it with tons of other gnc and/or male-passing women, but I am new to this.

I'm 30 years old, and have only lived as a male-passing woman for one and a half year. I grew up as a typically feminine girl, dysphoric about my sex traits, but never dysphoric about my feminine expression. My gnc mom taught me well, to separate sex from gender expression, and I thus never confused the two as I see sooo many other gnc and trans people do. I do not blame them, because so many people infer that my femininity=woman and my masculinity=man and that the sum of my whimsical androgyny equals nonbinary. But I cannot, do not, WILL NOT and have never in my life... seen it that way. However, big however, I STILL turned out dysphoric about my sex, despite being a happily feminine female, and lesbian at that, and that is something few seem to understand. I get that, I totally do. It's probably rare. Just see for yourself how empty the "dysphoric femme" tag is. Yes, it exists, with a whole whopping three posts. And I struggle to explain it.

It's very hard for me to live as a male-passing woman because it is entirely new for me and I'm struggling to adapt to facing this extreme level of misogyny. I break down from it, I do not know how to handle it. Perhaps most gnc/dysphoric women have lived with that crap since they were young tomboys, but I haven't, because I was never a tomboy. I suppose it will get easier, as much else does, and that is why I'm pretty sure that me using the nonbinary label now is only going to be temporary. Because I do not know how to deal with this. I'm sorry... I'm sorry for breaking down and admitting defeat, I'm so fucking sorry. I just want to be treated with the dignity and respect that I give to others, or at least just an ounce of politeness. So am I actually nonbinary, then, genderwise? No, I am not. Neither my choice of gender roles, nor my androgynous blob of a personality, not even my strange dysphoria is evidence of a nonbinary gender. If that’s how others see it: fine, but I cannot force myself to actually believe that THAT's what makes me nonbinary... No matter how much I keep getting that forced down my throat. All I do is choke on it. What I am is a woman, sex-wise, as I've always stated. Me taking on the nonbinary label is indeed a choice. A reluctant, but very deliberate, active choice.

Problem is that I cannot live authentically while at the same time calling myself what I literally am, without getting brutally punished for it. Yes, I believe the ones to blame for that... are the TRA's. Trans activism slowly changed society to overlook sex in favour of gender. I believe that is why I am being denied my womanhood, because it is based on my invisible sex. If you look clearly female in your day-to-day life, I do not think that you could possibly experience this. To clarify: I do not mind passing as male. In fact I like it quite a lot. What I do mind, is being treated like crap for who I am, and not being believed to be what I am. I had no idea that this would happen upon my detransition. I am shocked, and I am hurt. End notes: I wish that someday I can truly reclaim my womanhood, without having to change my body to fit societal standards, or claim a trans label to dodge the societal standards. I miss my womanhood, and I need it... but it has been snatched from my hands. The enemy won't let me have it back, unless I comply to the rules and (sell my soul to the patriarchy) turn myself into a conventionally attractive barbie doll - and my attempts to reclaim it without complying to those rules, are utterly futile. I am an incorrect female... deprived of my right to be a woman, and it hurts. Man, it hurts sooo bad!

Honestly I don't know what to do about it, but for now I need a breathing break from this constant battle, because my enemy has exhausted me. "Nonbinary" is such a breathing break. It is my retreat, but I will NOT surrender. Someday I will charge back into battle again, and shove down people's throats that I'm damn well a woman regardless of what they think of it. Because this bearded bitch ain't fucking dead yet!!!

#explaining my nonbinary radfem label a bit better #yes its because of misogyny #gnc female #male-passing women #gender critical #radfem #detransition #dysphoric female #metaphors #real life vs dumblr #reclaiming womanhood was way harder than i thought #also im going back to medically transition #this is probably the most brutally honest ive been about this shit

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squidproquoclarice · 6 years ago

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Don't know what you'd think of this, but my read on Dutch is that his first concern is his own safety, and when his safety isn't a concern his talk is genuine. When everything starts going to shit his selfish nature comes to the forefront and he subconsciously ramps up the manipulation tactics. And I don't how Ch 6 Dutch would have behaved if he wasn't Post-Hosea and brain damaged.

I’m wrapping this into another Ask of “You believe Dutch never loved Arthur, John, or any of them?”~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~To answer second Ask very directly, I’d say no, that Dutch never loved any of them. But that’s due to asking “What is love?” (Baby don’t hurt me, don’t hurt me, no more). I’m saying that with the perspective that real, genuine love needs empathy, selflessness, concern for the other person first above yourself. You can be very fond and affectionate and caring, but if you’re a narcissist who will always, always instinctively want to put yourself first, if you’ll sacrifice them for your needs, then yeah, you don’t truly love them. You can’t. But none of them knew it, including perhaps Dutch, because they weren’t pushed anywhere near that until 1899. The only vague hint we have is his implied habit of going through women and treating them as somewhat dispensable. (I do think he was fond of Annabelle, but if you dig into it, I’m going to guess at its core it’s mostly anger that something of his was taken from him. He only talks about her in a sense of outrage that Colm killed her, not the grief for her as a person. Contrast that to Hosea’s very real grief for Bessie.)To the first Nonny, I think you’re right. I never would say Dutch is all a cynical act. He does like and care about these people. He’s taken them in when they’ve been lost souls and given them a family, and yes, there’s certainly an angle of self-interest in preying on their vulnerability–the ones he finds as kids are particularly painful–but it’s clear he also enjoys these people. He likes them. He’s not just seeing them as little toy soldiers who he has to fool by playing nice so he can use them.The trouble with Dutch is, as you say, when the good times are good, his better nature is there. He can be kind, generous, funny, and it’s easier to downplay the darkest part of the reality, that he’s a silver-tongued egomaniac who’s drawn all these people together into an anarchosocialist cult with him as their godhead. But there’s room for kindness. There’s room for affection and pride. There’s room for him to see Hosea as (almost) his equal and treat him and his opinion with great respect. Though the fact that it’s very definitively the Van Der Linde Gang, not the Van Der Linde/Matthews Gang, makes it clear that Hosea may be a brother, but definitely subordinate. There were other outlaw gangs with a more equal partnership definitely noted: the James/Younger Gang, for example, or Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid getting equal billing in the Hole In The Wall Gang. In this case, Hosea’s the quieter junior partner, and even he eventually observes how he’s fallen under Dutch’s spell.Most violently oriented cults don’t hold together for years on end. I think there’s a reason for that. Technically the gang’s been in existence for at least 23 (?) years, since I believe Hosea’s news article details him and Dutch breaking out of prison in Ohio in 1876. They found Arthur in 1877. Hosea had Bessie, and it sounds like Susan is also an OG. But that was that for a while, until they brought John into it in 1885. That changed things again, but I’d argue that the early days of the gang were very different. It was a small group: Dutch, Hosea, Bessie as Team Mom, Susan leaving her role as Dutch’s lover and becoming Team Spinster Aunt, Dutch’s current lover in any given year, Arthur growing into manhood and his role as Annoyed Older Brother, and John as Little Brother. That small core family of two kids, two dads, one mom and one aunt (though Bessie sounds to have died before the gang really exploded in size) and one revolving-door girlfriend, seems to have been a fairly set dynamic until c. 1892 or 1893. It sounds to have been fairly stable, tight-knit, warm and affectionate. I suspect Arthur’s anxiety settled down when he saw that he’d always be treated and respected as the eldest son, and he and John were actually pretty close until John fucked up with Abigail. The closest that anyone came to leaving was Arthur riding off for a few days every couple of months to go see Eliza and Isaac. This also sounds like the best days of the gang in terms of charity—that article from the bank robbery from the mid-late 1880s that’s clearly Dutch, Hosea, and Arthur happened, and they promptly went and were handing out money to the local poor people and basically being giddy Robin Hoods. Arthur remembers when they used to help people. These were the good days. So in 1892/1893 you have Dutch, Hosea, Arthur, John, Susan, and Dutch’s Current Girlfriend (though I suspect nobody counts her that much since she’s prone to changing every couple of years). I think Bessie is dead by this point since Hosea makes it sound like it happened before most of the gang members were there. So we’ll say this gang is effectively five people, with one more loosely attached honorary member. Suddenly the gang population explodes. It sounds like everyone else joined in the last six years prior to RDR2, probably many in the last two to three. From Pearson’s pic of the stagecoach likely in 1895, given Abigail holding baby Jack, they had Dutch, Hosea, Arthur, Abigail, Susan, John, Pearson, and Bill, and we know Javier was part of it, Tilly sounds to have been. That’s ten right there, maybe more.And I think that swapped the dynamic for Dutch too. Suddenly they’re acquiring every stray, lost soul, and orphan in their path. He’s not just the fond patriarch of a tight-knit family, he’s got to be the leader, the prophet, the Messiah of a Goddamned movement. And I think that exacerbates his narcissism. He has more people to look after, and more people to hold in his sway. His personality becomes bigger. His rhetoric and his plans become more grandiose. He becomes more of the fire-and-brimstone street preacher. The gang becomes less charitable, more insular, more we take care of our own first, because they’re becoming far more dangerously visible with the need to take care of ten, fifteen, twenty people, and the more constant stream of risk and crimes that comes with it. The population explosion pretty much doomed the gang, I think, because it pushed Dutch’s narcissism to deadly levels, and forced them to start taking on bigger and riskier crimes on a more regular basis. By 1896 the clock was probably already ticking down, and the pressure of the next few years ratcheted that up until it finally explodes in the Blackwater Massacre and everything that happens after. So to backtrack: I think the Dutch that Hosea, Bessie, Susan, Arthur, and John knew from c. 1876 to 1893 was a proto-narcissist who would have looked out for ol’ Number 1 when pressed hard, yes, but the situation and dynamic they had was a lot more forgiving and brought out Dutch’s idealism, affection, and the like rather than his worst traits. When the gang started getting bigger, he had more people to hold there, and more risk to keep it all together, the manipulation and grooming and gaslighting ratcheted up too because things had already subtly transformed and started to turn. You can see some of it in Chapters 1-4 with things like him insisting Arthur will betray him and telling Hosea he needs FAITH NOT DOUBTERS but yeah, it’s really Chapters 5 and 6 that show it. Missing Hosea’s restraint and with Arthur as the son being unable to take the role of the brother, and with the likelihood of Traumatic Brain Injury/TBI to boot, there was no other way it could have ended, because those were the final nails in the coffin. But I don’t think it was all Hosea and TBI. The seeds of everyone’s destruction were there long, long before. I don’t think Dutch is this cynical mastermind and that everything is a deliberate act, mind. Both those who say that Dutch changed (Sadie, Charles) and those who say he became who he always was (John, Arthur) are right. He changed and became his true and worst self, and I’m not sure even he fully realized how much he’d been keeping at bay in a far more forgiving situation that let him be his best self.

#dutch van der linde #arthur morgan #john marston #rdr2 #hosea matthews #thank you for coming to my red talk #Anonymous

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radfemetc · 6 years ago

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When Bindels speak*

Fourteen years ago, in an opinion column in The Guardian provocatively entitled ‘Gender Benders, Beware’, lesbian feminist activist Julie Bindel wrote that:

“I don’t have a problem with men disposing of their genitals, but it does not make them women, in the same way that shoving a bit of vacuum hose down your 501s does not make you a man.”

I vaguely remember reading this at the time, slightly bemused both at the piece and then at the subsequent outraged public reaction to it. Fast forward to a few months ago, and I’ve just published some blog pieces which, though not reaching Bindelesque proportions, have proved moderately controversial in my discipline, academic philosophy. As I discuss and defend my views on social media, and watch others discuss them, the name of Julie Bindel comes up repeatedly, as an example of company which, it is presumed, I absolutely don’t want to keep. A well-established male philosopher intones repeatedly about Bindel’s ‘offensive, transphobic’ comments in the past. Another describes her to me as a ‘loopy extremist’, and ‘potty’. I go back to find the article online and rather disbelievingly check whether it’s the same one I vaguely remember. It is.

Now, to attempt to mitigate against such perceptions, which perhaps you share, I could tell you about Bindel’s frankly stunning track record of effective activism, working on behalf of natal women and girls world-wide with an energy and bravery which borders on heroic. I could tell you that the context of her Guardian piece was partly a discussion of an attempt by trans women Kimberley Nixon to sue Vancouver Rape Relief for not allowing her to work with traumatised natal women fleeing male sexual violence: a case which rumbled on for another three years before Nixon lost, costing the shelter thousands of dollars to defend against. I could point out that the idiom of the piece was clearly intended to be comic, colourful, and frank, and was pretty funny in several places; for instance:

“When I were a lass, new to feminism and lesbianism, I was among the brigade who would sit in the women’s disco wearing vegetarian shoes and staring in disbelief at the butch/femme couples, mainly because they were having a better time than me”.

I could tell you that even so, she later apologised ‘unreservedly’ for writing the article. I could point out that many of the things she says in the piece are prescient, and over time have only got more troubling: worries about how trans ideology often essentialises wholly sexist gender stereotypes about masculine and feminine behaviour; about the development of a culture apparently in favour of cutting off parts of healthy bodies if one is ‘unhappy with the constraints of .. gender’; and about the harmful implied message sent by this culture to butch lesbians and camp gay men. And I could also easily manifest the anger I felt, as I read these online comments from middle-class heterosexual males, typing smugly and contemptuously about one moment fourteen years ago in the life of a working-class lesbian, who has devoted most of the rest of that life to addressing issues such as child grooming, sex trafficking, prostitution, and cross-border surrogacy; doing activism in the field, and not just from the armchair.

But to cite these facts as exculpatory of Bindel would suggest that an ordinary woman who had said roughly the same thing as her– that is, that trans women aren’t, in fact, women — and yet who was not already a heroic feminist defender of natal women, or who wasn’t partly talking about an odiously selfish individual such as Nixon, would be at fault. I deny this too. That is, I reject the near-pathological zeal with which trans activists, ‘trans allies’, and ‘woke blokes’ generally, seek to monitor and control natal women’s language in this domain: not just with respect to discussing whether trans women are actually women, but also in uses of particular names and pronouns, and gender attributions.

The statement “transwomen are women” has become a kind of mantra for so-called progressives. To understand what it is meant by it, we need to distinguish the use of that phrase, in those mouths, from two other contexts. One of those involves a claim about the law. Since 2004, those in the UK with a Gender Recognition Certificate are counted as having had their gender ‘reassigned’. This is not, and was never intended to be, any pronouncement on a biological fact. It is in fact impossible for a child or adult to biologically change sex. (I’m prepared to offer arguments for this, if needed, but most readers will, I hope, accept it as true). Nor was this law supposed to pronounce definitively on the question of whether a trans woman with a GRC ‘really is’ a woman. The Gender Recognition Act was at most intended to allow for a legal status — that of ‘gender reassignment’ — for the purposes of access to certain protections under the law.

A second version of the claim “trans women are women” is uttered for therapeutic reasons. One basis for self-identifying as a trans person is the condition of gender dysphoria. It is assumed by many medical practitioners that, on diagnosis of this condition, treating a person ‘as if’ belonging to their self-identified gender is helpful to their well-being; whereas confronting them with their ‘birth-assigned’ gender, or the biological facts of their sex, is not. We might easily interpret this as a kind of benevolent role-playing or method-acting, extending from the medical practitioner out into the wider community: act as if a trans woman is a woman, in most social contexts. But this is completely compatible with denying that trans women really arewomen, in a more committed sense.

Somehow, though, in recent years, a respectful concern for the well-being of trans people has supposedly morphed into a literal claim about category membership: trans women really are women. That is: trans women belong unambiguously in the category of women; the concept of woman literally applies to them. For most trans activists, this is supposed to be true whether the trans woman is a post-operative transsexual, or a trans woman on hormones, or whether she belongs to the significant proportion of trans women who are neither. She ‘is’ a women, whether she transitioned in her teens, or in middle-age; whether thirty years ago, or yesterday. Moreover, for many trans activists, not only are trans women literally women, but if they have children, they can be mothers. If they have female partners, they can be lesbians. They can be victims of misogyny. And so on. One by one, the familiar words women have used to describe themselves tumble like a chain of dominoes.

Such claims are usually unargued-for. They are presented more as self-evident truths; the outcome of revelation, perhaps, or as some article of faith which it would be downright evil to try to deny or complicate. As this description suggests, agreement with such claims is ruthlessly socially enforced by trans activists. Not only are you not supposed to refer to or imply, in front of a trans person, any fact about their natally-bestowed gender or biological sex; you aren’t suppose to mention these, even in their absence. To do otherwise is sometimes called a form of ‘violence’. Even on a massive UK discussion forum like Mumsnet, in a thread about trans people written by gender-critical feminists and directed towards fellow gender-critical feminists, you aren’t supposed to mention it. Even on a Whatsapp group chat involving natal women working at the BBC, you aren’t supposed to mention it. It doesn’t matter if your subject matter is Labour party all-woman shortlists, what to do about children who think they are trans, medical discussions, biology teaching, or presumably, your own relatives; you are never, ever, eversupposed to describe trans women as men or male, ‘deadname’, ‘misgender’, or use the ‘wrong’ pronouns out loud. Even trans women themselves aren’t supposed to do these things: see the bullying treatment that trans women in the UK such as Miranda Yardley, Kristina Harrison, and Debbie Hayton get, when they deny that they themselves are ‘really’ women, and seek a different narrative.

This is in itself quite striking, as for other false claims about category membership, people are normally socially permitted to assert them. Take the claims: “Elton John is straight”. “Marvin Gaye is white”. Those claims are obviously false, but there was, presumably, no inward gasp of horror as you just read them. Now contrast with: “Caitlyn Jenner is a man”; “Lily Madigan is biologically male; he is a man”. Even though I mention these as exemplary sentences, rather than assert them myself, I assume that at least some readers think I just wrote something awful. Moreover, this is presumably not just the feeling that I showed a lack of respect for the addressee’s wishes; for if I tell you that the composer of the song ‘Rocket Man’ is Reginald Dwight, presumably you don’t think I just committed ‘violence’ against Elton John by ‘deadnaming’ him.

Writing down those phrases about Jenner and Madigan just now, but without quotation marks, would be enough to have me banned from Twitter. Articles have been removed from Medium for less. This is not, despite what opponents have sometimes suggested, because such statements are obviously morally equivalent to denying the personhood or humanity of those who are racially different to oneself. (Again, I’m happy to offer arguments for this — it won’t take long — but I leave it aside for the moment, on the assumption that most readers aren’t so sophomoric). Nor is it reasonable to think that hearing such statements will generally cause trans people to have thoughts of suicide, as is sometimes dramatically suggested by Owen Jones, in a way that means we should never utter them.

A better explanation seems to involve the thought that, should a speaker X publically refer to a trans person Y by their natally-bestowed name or pronouns, even out of the earshot of Y, Y might later find out about it; or at least, some other trans person might find out about it, and by extrapolation to their own case, be caused to experience a distressing episode of dysphoria. Equally, presumably, it is worried that if a trans woman overhears a general claim such as “trans women are men/ males”, she will be caused great distress; perhaps too, a trans man might be caused great distress, again by extrapolating to his own case.

However, this reasoning clearly has limits. If gender critical feminists are talking to each other on a discussion thread clearly advertised for the purpose, or in a Whatsapp group, then it just seems too demanding to require they talk a certain way, just in case a trans woman or trans man reads or ‘hears’ them. The trans woman in question would almost certainly have to be specially looking. Quite often trans activists will equate misgendering along the lines of going up to a trans person and screaming ‘you’re a man!’ in their face(always ‘screaming’, of course). Obviously this isn’t what is happening in the contexts just mentioned: this is natal women talking to other natal women, about matters of great importance to them, as such, and with no reasonable expectation that they will be accidentally ‘overheard’.

In any case: even if one can foresee that trans people will overhear when one denies that trans women are women — is that a compelling reason not to say what one thinks? It rather depends on what is at stake. It was part of the original argument of my blog pieces that rather a lot is currently at stake in the UK with respect to this matter. There are several conflicts of interest that arise between trans women, as a category, and women, as a category, competing for the same spaces and resources. Trans activists seem to think that natal women should accede to all their demands. In that context, I think natal women should be allowed to speak freely in a critical way about the underpinnings of trans activist views. If natal women conclude after consideration that trans women aren’t women, they should be able to say so, whether or not they’re ultimately right.

Partly too, though, I think that the moral horror which unconsciously accompanies ‘misgendering’ in particular is, perversely, an artefact of sexist normative stereotypes for natal women and men. We tend to frame statements like “Caitlyn Jenner is a man/ male” in terms of insults launched at ‘butch’ or ‘manly’ natal women. The combination of a woman’s name and the epithet ‘man’ or ‘male’ sounds insulting, automatically. Compare: “Kathleen Stock is a man”. Were you to hear someone else saying this, perhaps you would empathically imagine me hearing the same thing and finding it distressing or embarrassing; you might assume that as a woman, I must aspire to the norm of a feminised appearance, and must suffer if I miss the mark. But — of course — to say e.g. that “Caitlyn Jenner is a man” isn’t an insult, in many contexts in which it is uttered. It is, in the mouths of many, a descriptive fact, not a slur or insult. Indeed, arguably it could only be an insult in the way just indicated, if in fact the speaker already assumed that Caitlyn Jenner was a woman. And this is, precisely, not assumed by those that tend to say it.

What else might underly the reaction to Bindel, in particular? I’m sure that part of it is to do with another sexist assumption: that women cannot be bawdy, frank, or colourful in their language; they must be sober, measured, cautious, responsible, kind. At this point we might as well also revisit Germaine Greer’s statement from the Victoria Derbyshire show in 2015:

“Just because you lop off your penis and then wear a dress doesn’t make you a fucking woman .. I’ve asked my doctor to give me long ears and liver spots and I’m going to wear a brown coat but that won’t turn me into a fucking cocker spaniel.”

This is a vividly Rabelaisian way of making the basic claim — which I have argued that natal women should be freely permitted to make, whether or not it is true — that trans women aren’t women. It caused an enormous fuss at the time, and is still regularly cited, along with other such statements, as evidence of Greer’s ‘transphobia’. Yet in her brilliant and funny seminal work of feminism The Female Eunuch, published in 1970, it is clear from Greer’s discussion of April Ashley that she held the same position then as she does now. Greer expresses herself frankly about many things, and always has. See also, for instance, this brutal passage, also from The Female Eunuch, about female students in Universities:

“Their energy is all expended on conforming with disciplinary and other requirements, not in gratifying their own curiosity about the subject that they are studying, and so most of it is misdirected into meaningless assiduity. This phenomenon is still very common among female students, who are forming a large proportion of the arts intake at universities, and dominating the teaching profession as a result. The process is clearly one of diminishing returns: the servile induce servility to teach the servile, in a realm where the unknown ought to be continually assailed with all the human faculties: education cannot be, and has never been a matter of obedience”. (p.75)

Now, you very possibly disagree with this, and so do I. And the style may not be to your taste. You might prefer your lady writers hedged, scholarly, sympathetic, and so on. Myself, I find it refreshing, like a bucket of cold salt water has been chucked over me after days of humid air. That is of course, compatible with saying that I disagree with a lot of what Greer says: as I have a mind of my own, this is hardly surprising. But whether Greer is to your taste or not, it is simply obvious that we don’t police colourful derogatory male speech in anything like the same way, whether the males in question are talking about natal women/ females, or even trans people.

The constant harping of progressive men on supposedly salutary examples like Bindel and Greer sends a message to natal women. Don’t say what you think. Don’t express an opinion on what women are; leave it to trans women to decide that. Don’t be assured. Don’t be bold. Don’t be whimsical or linguistically playful. Don’t try to be funny. Watch your mouth. Given the typical circumstances of female socialisation, natal women are already highly susceptible to such messages, and to feeling shame as a result. So here’s a task for any progressive males reading. Next time a natal woman expresses herself in a way you find unattractive, unseemly, unkind, or downright rude about trans people, then, assuming they aren’t “screaming it in a trans person’s face”: why not shut the fuck up and keep it to yourself.

Kathleen Stock

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verdigrisprowl · 6 years ago

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Sept 10 Dancitron Movie Night - Gotham 19-20 & Lego Marvel Super Heroes: Maximum Overload

Soundwave tried to explain to Prowl that Jim’s name isn’t Gym. Prowl didn’t quite get it.

Prowl was confused by the suggestion that fake boobs are unethical. Somehow this launched into a general conversation about weaponized boobs.

After Gotham, Soundwave showed a cartoon where the word “overload” was said about fifty times. It was hysterical.

Tonight’s serial killer had a very nice BDSM dungeon that he is absolutely wasting on kidnapping and killing women, when he could be using it on BDSM. It inspired Soundwave and Prowl to go have some fun with handcuffs after the stream.

Today NoodlesAtNight 7:22 pm *Soundwave's here, he's got a datapad, and he's got his nose buried deep in it. So to speak.* opatoes 7:23 pm /Smokescreen's coming in, looking a bit larger today, and he's going to wave at Soundwave./ Soundwave! What'd I miss last week? I've got something really cool to show you. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 7:26 pm *the dragon moseys on in, with treats! clearly, she was listening in on Arcee's ask session, because along with the typical gummis and mercury drops and silver bars, she's got some pumice drizzled in mercury syrup. dragons gonna make snacks for everyone.* Hello, Soundwave! NoodlesAtNight 7:29 pm [[Last week?]] *Without looking up.* [[We met Jerome Valeska, the son of a snake dancer in the circus, who killed his mother; in passing, we also met the Graysons. We also found out that Butch was brainwashed into doing anything Penguin says. Bruce threatened his company board into behaving themselves and they did not like it. Then, a group of bank robbers made a name for themselves with a red hood. Fish Mooney met the doctor in charge of the organ theft facility and convinced him to make her his right hand. A friend of Alfred's showed up, stayed a while, taught Bruce some things, and stabbed Alfred on the way out of the house after having stolen documents. Commissioner Loeb has blackmail material on most of the police and forced Bullock to lie under oath to get Flass reinstated; Gordon investigated Loeb and discovered that Loeb's daughter has been locked in a house for decades after killing her mother, then used that to blackmail Loeb in return. Kristen Kringle found a new boyfriend, much to Edward's distaste, and Fish discovered that the organ theft facility is on an icy island. ... He believes that is all.]] opatoes 7:30 pm Whoa. Whoa, a lot, huh? Well- at least I know now! Thank you, Sounds- Soundwave. NoodlesAtNight 7:30 pm [[And, now:]] *He turns to acknowledge the dragon.* [[You'll find another lobster behind the bar. Ask Ravage to show you if you cannot find it.]] Today MedicalMurdersaurus 7:30 pm *wanders in, clean and well-fed* NoodlesAtNight 7:30 pm *Nods at Smokescreen. Thank you for using his name.* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 7:31 pm Another lobster? Thank you, thank you! *the dragon chirps in delight and dives behind the bar. the Hunt for Snaccs has begun.* NoodlesAtNight 7:31 pm *Eyes Swoop. Please let there be no need for bridging tonight. He doesn't want to miss what happens. ... Of course, no Dinobot ever does what someone hopes they will.* MedicalMurdersaurus 7:31 pm *has never once in his life implied he knows how to behave* Bird? NoodlesAtNight 7:31 pm [[Yes. Ravage acquired something called 'butter' to go with it.]] NoodlesAtNight 7:32 pm *It's a whole churn. Don't ask where he got it.* opatoes 7:32 pm /Getting up and dabbing to the tune/ MedicalMurdersaurus 7:32 pm Bird! Kelpy 7:33 pm [slides a box out of his subspace to put onto the closest flat surface] I may have brought a bunch of snacks to share. NoodlesAtNight 7:33 pm *KERPOW and here is Bird like a shot from the rafters* *Her feelers bind the box up right quick.* MedicalMurdersaurus 7:33 pm *SQUEALS* MedicalMurdersaurus 7:34 pm Bird! opatoes 7:34 pm Wait wait more snacks? Specs, Swerve, have I ever told you two that I love you? Kelpy 7:34 pm I said to share-! NoodlesAtNight 7:34 pm [[Do as he said, Laserbeak. You do not want him to refuse to bring you more.]] {{..........Mehmehmeh.}} *Unwinds feelers. But stays perched near box.* Kelpy 7:34 pm Anyway, if you eat all those, you won't have room for the box I brought just for you. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 7:34 pm *bold of you to presume that she would look a Gift Ravage in the mouth, or do anything but make a mental note to bring tinsel fish to the next movie night. what the dragon DOES do is perch on the side of the churn and dip the lobster legs in the butter.* No, but you've told me now! *and in goes a leg. chawmp.* NoodlesAtNight 7:34 pm *Bright bright optic band. A box for her?* MedicalMurdersaurus 7:34 pm Bird have room for every snack ever :V NoodlesAtNight 7:34 pm ((whyyy rabbit the sound was fine earlier)) ((is it skipping for anyone else)) Kelpy 7:35 pm //it's fine for me? Kelpy 7:35 pm Yes, a box for you. That box is for everyone else. opatoes 7:35 pm ((fine for me as well!)) NoodlesAtNight 7:35 pm *Slooooooowly floats over. Swoop is right, but a box just for her is greaaaat.* Kelpy 7:36 pm [he's learned you see. distract her with a box all her own, and everyone else gets a chance at the other box.] Chillsins 7:36 pm *Windchill is here...by himself. A blessing or a curse? Time will tell.* opatoes 7:36 pm /Smokescreen's running over to grab a few snacks, just in case Laserbeak changes her mind and tries to take the box again./ NoodlesAtNight 7:36 pm *A wise idea.* NoodlesAtNight 7:37 pm *As soon as she gets the box of her own she'll sit by Swoop ....... and give him on-- tw-- ... two snacks from it.* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 7:37 pm *the dragon has given up all pretense of civilization, and is just using pieces of the lobster's shell to slather the meat in butter. Ravage has created a monster.* MedicalMurdersaurus 7:38 pm *starts to make a face but then smiles widely and takes the treats* Thank you, Bird : > NoodlesAtNight 7:38 pm *Soundwave watches in horrified fascination as she devours the lobster. Organic food. So gross.* Chillsins 7:38 pm (( I have to leave early again so I probably won't be all that active. )) (( Consider yourselves lucky. )) Today NoodlesAtNight 7:38 pm *He nods to Windchill. Welcome, welcome.* ((aaaaaa i'm sorry ;; such a good plot this time too)) Kelpy 7:38 pm [he's also sort of horrified fascination about the lobster. is that how you're supposed to eat it?] SpecsTheSpectralDragon 7:39 pm *she's from a mountainous biome and Ravage has just given her a churn full of nothing but pure fat. she's died and gone to bad food heaven.* Chillsins 7:39 pm (( Yeah I'm a little disappointed, my schedule changed so after this and next week I can't come at all for an unspecified number of months. )) MedicalMurdersaurus 7:39 pm *digs his claws into the treats and snickers to himself* NoodlesAtNight 7:39 pm ((DDDDDD😧 that suuuuuuucks)) opatoes 7:39 pm /He's just staring at the chum eating. Man, that seems brutal!/ Chillsins 7:39 pm (( Oh well, that's having to accommodate other people at every turn for you. )) NoodlesAtNight 7:40 pm ((my internet is shit rn for some reason. swoop mun i'm gonna pass u control and reset my net and then i'll be right back)) ((DON'T DO SILLY THINGS)) opatoes 7:40 pm ((swoop has power Kelpy 7:40 pm //is that wise Chillsins 7:40 pm *He can smell...something fatty happening. He tries not to look to find out what it is.* Kelpy 7:40 pm //lmao MedicalMurdersaurus 7:40 pm ((you can't give me ultimate power and expect it to end well)) SpecsTheSpectralDragon 7:40 pm *to be fair, tearing the legs off of the lobster and then cracking the shell open and pulling out the meat is exactly how most dragons would eat a lobster. lobsters may not be indigenous to their world, but there's plenty of similar things. unfortunately, butter is a whole new world. a delicious, delicious world.* MedicalMurdersaurus 7:41 pm ((okay everyone)) ((pun contest)) ((GO)) SpecsTheSpectralDragon 7:41 pm ((that's punbearable, swoop)) opatoes 7:41 pm ((I'm not about to punish everyone with the puns I know!)) SCProwl 7:41 pm *Prowl arrives relatively on time and crosses to the bar to set down a box with everything else that's been brought. she opens it to reveal roughly carved spheres of blue energon drizzled with thick, syrupy liquid energon, and leaves it there to be picked at anyone that might want one. there's enough for everyone that usually visits, with some extra... for certain individuals who might pilfer such sweet treats. time to find a seat* Chillsins 7:41 pm (( I'm the master of pee puns. Urine for a real treat. )) MedicalMurdersaurus 7:41 pm ((ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!)) NoodlesAtNight 7:42 pm ((god the audio is still mangled on my side. oh well. at least i've already seen this a shameful amount of times)) Chillsins 7:42 pm (( Is there something you would like to share with the class? )) NoodlesAtNight 7:43 pm *Laserbeak stops watching Swoop be a complete and utter precious dork at the smell of new food. Oooh?* MedicalMurdersaurus 7:43 pm *goes from stabbing the treats with his claws to smashing them into one amorphous treat blob* SCProwl 7:43 pm ((my audio is being surprisingly well behaved lately, i think updating those drivers manually did it \o/ MedicalMurdersaurus 7:43 pm ((LET THE RECORD SHOW THAT LASERBEAK THINKS SWOOP IS PRECIOUS)) ((MARK YOUR CALENDARS)) NoodlesAtNight 7:43 pm {{Returning soon. Holding on, please.}} *And over to Prowl she goes, hovering overhead like a vast, predatory bird....* MedicalMurdersaurus 7:43 pm ((HE'S IN HER HEAD)) MedicalMurdersaurus 7:44 pm *notices Bird's looming and snickers, wings fanning out a bit as he watching what will HOPEFULLY be a murder* opatoes 7:44 pm Prowl! Prowl, it's good to see you, too! MedicalMurdersaurus 7:44 pm *metaphorically! or literally. either.* NoodlesAtNight 7:45 pm *Is reminded Smokescreen said he has something to show?* SCProwl 7:45 pm *suddenly Laserbeak, Prowl nods her chin toward where she left the box* You're welcome to take one. NoodlesAtNight 7:46 pm *Slithers a feeler across the room and up right behind Smokey, between his wings, clicking the claws behind his head. Hello, there.* NoodlesAtNight 7:46 pm *It taps him on the shoulder.* Kelpy 7:46 pm [smothers a laugh] SCProwl 7:46 pm *smiles faintly in Smokescreen's general direction and pings him hello* opatoes 7:46 pm /BEEPS with the feeler tapping him, but turns around, going over to be close to Soundwave./ Sounds, do you know anything about playing instruments? NoodlesAtNight 7:47 pm [[He knows how it is done, for some of them. He does not have the ability to play them, himself.]] Chillsins 7:47 pm There is only one instrument that matters. Mayonnaise. NoodlesAtNight 7:48 pm *Bird takes TWO, because fight the man. She'll break a piece off one and give it to Swoop. Just in case Primus is watching.* opatoes 7:48 pm Oh- I guess my surprise won't be quite as cool. Uh, you know how I get magic once in a while, right? MedicalMurdersaurus 7:48 pm *blinks owlishly* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 7:48 pm *peeks up from the mangled lobster and the butter churn* How do you play mayonnaise? MedicalMurdersaurus 7:48 pm *is legitimately confused* *chirps* NoodlesAtNight 7:49 pm [[Yes, he knows. The multiverse knows.]] Chillsins 7:49 pm Creatively. opatoes 7:49 pm We-eeell, watch this, Sounds! NoodlesAtNight 7:49 pm {{You Swoop eat. It yours.}} Chillsins 7:49 pm I think you gotta pour it out and slap it really hard to make sounds. But I'm not sure. Kelpy 7:49 pm I don't... think that's how it works NoodlesAtNight 7:49 pm ((starting in 10 minutes, get your snacks and your drinks and your potty breaks and all that)) SCProwl 7:50 pm So it's a percussion instrument. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 7:50 pm ...Right. *okay, back to slurping up lobster meat drowned in butter* opatoes 7:50 pm /Smokescreen's transforming into an organ!/ NoodlesAtNight 7:50 pm [[..........What in the hellish depths of Gygax.]] Kelpy 7:50 pm Did you gtet reformatted opatoes 7:50 pm ... /Presses down on a key to show what it does. Does Soundwave just not know instruments?/ Chillsins 7:51 pm Maybe. It would take a lot of mayonnaise for me to try. MedicalMurdersaurus 7:51 pm Oh Uh NoodlesAtNight 7:51 pm *He knows what an organ is. He's trying to process Smokescreen being one.* MedicalMurdersaurus 7:51 pm *looks at the treats in his hands* opatoes 7:51 pm Uh, not willingly. But I think it's a temporary thing! NoodlesAtNight 7:51 pm [[Do you, er... function.]] MedicalMurdersaurus 7:51 pm Me Swoop don't... want SCProwl 7:51 pm What did he turn into? *pings Soundwave for a visual feed* MedicalMurdersaurus 7:51 pm *holds the snacks out for Laserbeak instead* NoodlesAtNight 7:51 pm {{No? Why not? Is good.}} *Soundwave sends Prowl the feed.* opatoes 7:51 pm ... /He's going to play a few chords to show. He works!/ chronosmith 7:51 pm *sliiides on it. First stop, the bar* Kelpy 7:52 pm Hi Whirl. NoodlesAtNight 7:52 pm [[Mind the butter.]] Kelpy 7:52 pm [slowly reaches out a hand to touch Smokescreen. is it real] SCProwl 7:52 pm *....that sure is a thing Smokescreen's turned into* opatoes 7:52 pm /Yep, he's real! He's pretty sure he's real, at least./ SpecsTheSpectralDragon 7:52 pm *waves at Whirl from atop the butter churn* MedicalMurdersaurus 7:52 pm Uhh dunno chronosmith 7:52 pm ...is THAT what that smell is? And hey, Swerve. All of you. *bobs his head* MedicalMurdersaurus 7:52 pm *licks the treat to test if it is good* It fine *offers again* Chillsins 7:53 pm *Waves also. He's alone tonight, so Whirl is spared.* NoodlesAtNight 7:53 pm {{Eeeeeeew. You licked it.}} chronosmith 7:53 pm *he's on week two of four so, gonna load up on a nice double Gaugebuster* NoodlesAtNight 7:53 pm {{It yours now. You eat.}} MedicalMurdersaurus 7:53 pm *snickers* NO no! SpecsTheSpectralDragon 7:53 pm *the dragon is running out of lobster. there's still a lot of butter in that churn.* NoodlesAtNight 7:53 pm [[May he--? Do you have optics in this form...?]] SpecsTheSpectralDragon 7:54 pm *...yep, she just took an actual bite. of butter. primus save you all.* Chillsins 7:54 pm *His ear flicks. What is Swoop fussing about now?* opatoes 7:54 pm Go for it, Soundwave! I don't have optics, but my sensors work kinda like how they do in my other alt mode. MedicalMurdersaurus 7:54 pm *has two very murdered goodies and one fine goodie and no desire to eat them, help* SCProwl 7:54 pm You still have your other alt mode? NoodlesAtNight 7:54 pm //...You s'posed to eat it like that?// *Rumble comes down and sniffs at the butter churn, then stretches. He's been asleep.* chronosmith 7:55 pm *while he's mixing his own drink* How's that, Smokescreen? Sound-based or light-based? Or something else? NoodlesAtNight 7:55 pm *Soundwave reaches out oh so slowly and presses a key. Biiiiiiing.* Chillsins 7:55 pm *Don't you DARE throw them across the room, Swoop.* opatoes 7:55 pm Yep! I haven't transformed into it in a little while, th-Biiiiiing chronosmith 7:55 pm *stares. Biiiiiing* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 7:55 pm *the dragon shrugs her wings* I have never had this before. *remember, she's from a planet without mammals. there's oils, and probably margarine-like substances, but no BUTTER, as there's no dairy.* MedicalMurdersaurus 7:56 pm *isn't throwing (yet), just offering them to BIrd with a very confused look on his face, since when is she not a vacuum?* chronosmith 7:56 pm *pauses for a moment, and then imitates the Biiiiiing back near-perfectly* Chillsins 7:56 pm *You know who is a vacuum, though?* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 7:56 pm *the fact that smokescreen has turned into a piano pales in comparison to a churn of high-fat food* Chillsins 7:56 pm *It's Windchill.* NoodlesAtNight 7:56 pm //Huh. ... Mind if I try?// NoodlesAtNight 7:56 pm *It SMELLS sort of oily-greasy. It's like. Almost appetizing, but not quite?* opatoes 7:57 pm /Hey, he's an organ! With pedals! But the food is way more exciting, that's completely reasonable./ chronosmith 7:57 pm ((i feel the spirit of paula deen in this room tonight)) ((wait i have a gif perfect for this I think)) NoodlesAtNight 7:57 pm ((WARNINGS: Gotham S1 19 -20 Beast of Prey, Under the Knife // 19 AND 20 ARE HARD TO WATCH. I mean it. If you need to duck out, duck out. Violence, blood, death; police brutality and corruption; foul or sexist language; implied and visible domestic violence; torture; Mama Kapelput being creepy; the horrors of guys who think they're entitled to peoples' affection; attempted suicide; decomposed body; assorted bdsm gear/kink visuals and bizarre offscreen implications - no graphic sex, this did air on broadcast tv)) ((Lego Superheroes short // half-ass mind control)) opatoes 7:57 pm Soundwave- can you try playing a C, E, and G together? chronosmith 7:57 pm ((thanks for the warnin!))

chronosmith 7:58 pm ((BUUUUTTTEEERRR)) SCProwl 7:58 pm *attention fully on whatever's happening with Smokescreen and Soundwave rn* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 7:58 pm *the dragon looks up in surprise* ...If you can eat it, be my guest. *she's used to making food for non-tarantulas cybertronians that is all but inedible to her* Chillsins 7:58 pm (( Christ. )) SpecsTheSpectralDragon 7:58 pm ((whirl I love you and you are my friend but why)) NoodlesAtNight 7:58 pm ((GAH)) MedicalMurdersaurus 7:58 pm *has no idea what is on tonight or what has happened in the past, is purely here for Bird* NoodlesAtNight 7:58 pm ((gotham is safer to watch tonight than that gif)) chronosmith 7:58 pm ((I have helped prepare u, audience, and make u stronger)) MedicalMurdersaurus 7:59 pm *awkwardly sets the treat mush down on the back of the sofa for lack of another idea what to do with it* chronosmith 7:59 pm *drink prepared! Pauses on his way to the couch by the churn to watch the Butter Shenanigans, and to nudge Rumble hello* NoodlesAtNight 8:00 pm *Soundwave has no musical training whatsoever; he does not know how to properly play the organ. All he can do is refer to his diagram of where keys are. So he puts one finger of one hand on a C, one finger of the other hand on an E, and uses the feeler from earlier to press the G. He does not do it all at once. Don't have him do this again.* *Rumble waves, still hoping for permission to taste test the butter.* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:00 pm *whoops! she shorted out from Delicious Butter Taste* Yes, go ahead! *hops aside to let Rumble at it* NoodlesAtNight 8:01 pm *He squints and sticks the very tip of the tip of his finger into the butter and brings the swiped goop up close to his visor. ....... Huh. LOOKS like grease. Mlem.* opatoes 8:01 pm ... Maybe I can show you how some of this stuff works after the show, Soundwave? NoodlesAtNight 8:01 pm //Aaaackhbphthbht.// SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:01 pm No good? MedicalMurdersaurus 8:01 pm *doesn't really know what to do with himself so he just sits on the nearest sofa* Chillsins 8:01 pm A white outfit seems like a bad idea. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:01 pm *like a people* NoodlesAtNight 8:01 pm [[He will consider it.]] NoodlesAtNight 8:02 pm [[Rumble, stop eating organic food.]] //...Y'know how fuel - or, uh, food, I guess - gets kinda - stale 'n jus' this side of funky? 'S like that. Smells like it oughta be grease, but it sure ain't.// NoodlesAtNight 8:03 pm *He grabs a rag to wipe his finger off before heading over to Whirl and plopping down.* verdigrisprowl 8:03 pm *arrives, just a shade late* MedicalMurdersaurus 8:03 pm *pulls his legs up under himself to sit on them* NoodlesAtNight 8:03 pm *Greeting ping. Subtle pat of couch.* SCProwl 8:03 pm *pings alternate hello* verdigrisprowl 8:03 pm *ping. sits.* NoodlesAtNight 8:04 pm *Looks over to see the mush on the back of Swoop's couch. He vents. They just cleaned that yesterday.* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:04 pm I do know what you mean. I'm sorry it tasted like that. It's no fun to eat bad food. *the dragon shrugs, and goes back to shoving her snout into the butter* MedicalMurdersaurus 8:04 pm ((Bruce's actor is so good. He gets so much subtle stuff across.)) SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:04 pm ((even my body language doesn't get that stuff across)) NoodlesAtNight 8:04 pm //'S okay. More for you, huh?// *Bop Whirl.* //How ya doin', mech?// NoodlesAtNight 8:04 pm //Got you a big glass of the good stuff, heh.// opatoes 8:05 pm /Smokescreen's pretty sure that's Prowl that's sitting near, and is pretty quickly transforming out of his organ alt mode and going over to sit next to round Prowl./ MedicalMurdersaurus 8:05 pm *sniffs his own arm* 😕 Kelpy 8:05 pm Flattery? verdigrisprowl 8:05 pm Hm. Promising. And suspicious. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:05 pm ((ed! ed- aw.)) ((not ed)) SCProwl 8:06 pm *she is sitting near and only a little disappointed he's no longer an organ* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:06 pm *peeks over at Prowl at "you had me at homicide"* NoodlesAtNight 8:06 pm [[What makes you suspicious?]] *He's not arguing. He's just curious the reasons.* chronosmith 8:06 pm ((whop sorry for delay got caught up in kitchen)) opatoes 8:06 pm /Hey, if Prowl asks, he'd be happy to transform again!/ MedicalMurdersaurus 8:06 pm Me Swoop smell funny verdigrisprowl 8:07 pm The fact that everyone in this police department tends to lie SCProwl 8:07 pm *maybe later when the movie's over* Chillsins 8:07 pm You Swoop smell like Swoop. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:07 pm Nuh uh Chillsins 8:07 pm Yuh huh. NoodlesAtNight 8:07 pm [[Oh, good. The Kel-E human survived.]] MedicalMurdersaurus 8:07 pm Nope chronosmith 8:07 pm *has gotten himself nice and settled, and is happily bopped* You know it, mech. *hoists the glass into the air and takes a swig* ...Ha! I knew she was still in it for her! verdigrisprowl 8:07 pm And I feel like it's still too early for them to be publicly throwing their lot in with Gym unless they were already bucking the status quo. Chillsins 8:07 pm Then what do you smell like? MedicalMurdersaurus 8:07 pm *holds his arm out to Windchill with a "check and see" pout on his face* chronosmith 8:08 pm How did butter-quest go? *looks between Rumble and the dragon* NoodlesAtNight 8:08 pm //Gross, 's how it went. Heh.// Chillsins 8:08 pm *Leans over and sniffs.* MedicalMurdersaurus 8:08 pm *is a clean boy today* Chillsins 8:08 pm Smells like an arm. A Swoop arm. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:08 pm Nuh uh! Not a Swoop arm. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:08 pm ...That, is a popped stitch. He should not be doing anything. Kelpy 8:08 pm You smell like soap. Chillsins 8:08 pm Then whose arm is it? Kelpy 8:08 pm You're awful clean looking MedicalMurdersaurus 8:09 pm Awful :V NoodlesAtNight 8:09 pm *There's Gym again. He glances at Prowl a second.* @P: [[It is not an equipment based name. It's a - a human one. He does not know what it means, but the glyphs are different.]] verdigrisprowl 8:10 pm @S «... It sounds like "Gym."» MedicalMurdersaurus 8:10 pm *licks his arm to see if that helps* *it does not* Chillsins 8:10 pm ....Does it taste bad? MedicalMurdersaurus 8:10 pm No :< Chillsins 8:11 pm Gimme. verdigrisprowl 8:11 pm *nods at Ed* HE'D probably say he wants to work more. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:11 pm *offers arm* chronosmith 8:11 pm why... would a speakeasy have a liquor license... SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:11 pm It's the riddling human. Competent, if weird. opatoes 8:11 pm OH. Oh, I know what this show reminds me of right now. NoodlesAtNight 8:11 pm @P: [[He knows. It uses different letters in their alphabet. They really need a better alphabet.]] Chillsins 8:11 pm *Puts his mouth on the arm.* Kelpy 8:11 pm What's Spanish? verdigrisprowl 8:11 pm @S «... Well, I'm not speaking in their alphabet.» MedicalMurdersaurus 8:12 pm *watches expectantly* NoodlesAtNight 8:12 pm //It's a theme thing, I think. Like, a gimmick. It's a real bar, y'know? But dressed up for pretendin'.// chronosmith 8:12 pm Oh. Huh. Chillsins 8:12 pm *Spits the arm out.* verdigrisprowl 8:12 pm Who would want to go to a bar that's perfectly legal but LOOKS criminal? chronosmith 8:12 pm I know how to fly a helicopter. verdigrisprowl 8:12 pm ... Wait. What am I saying. Criminals. chronosmith 8:12 pm I'm pretty good, or so I've been told. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:12 pm *blinks* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:13 pm You are a helicopter. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:13 pm Better? Chillsins 8:13 pm Tastes like an arm. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:13 pm Gross Chillsins 8:13 pm It's okay. I've had worse. chronosmith 8:13 pm I'll be damned, dragon... you might be on to something. *toasts her and takes another swig* The very best kind of flying machine there is. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:13 pm Dinobots supposed to worse :< NoodlesAtNight 8:13 pm @P: [[He knows. He is trying to explain the way it is said and meant on Earth.... it's relatively unimportant, he supposes.]] Chillsins 8:13 pm You can't be the worst at everything. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:14 pm *the dragon waves a glop of butter as a toast* To the best helicopter. NoodlesAtNight 8:14 pm {{Him Whirl good helibot. Bird tested.}} opatoes 8:14 pm NO SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:14 pm ((RIOT)) Kelpy 8:14 pm //wow MedicalMurdersaurus 8:14 pm Me Swoop not the worst at flying. Me Swoop am best! opatoes 8:14 pm "Maybe you're right" and the episode ends chronosmith 8:14 pm ((i sense the buttery, dastardly hand of Paula Deen in this)) Chillsins 8:14 pm See? I'm right. chronosmith 8:14 pm *also toasts Laserbeak* That is genuinely high praise. Thanks, mech. opatoes 8:14 pm ... Did he murder his other dates is that it verdigrisprowl 8:14 pm @S «... How's it spelled?» Chillsins 8:15 pm I'll laugh. chronosmith 8:15 pm The worst person at flying is anytime Optimus Prime gets a jetpack. Chillsins 8:15 pm *Cackles, just as promised.* opatoes 8:15 pm ... He absolutely did it chronosmith 8:15 pm And then it's... him. Using the jetpack. Kelpy 8:15 pm [snorts] MedicalMurdersaurus 8:15 pm *sniffs where Windchill got him* *this isn't right either* verdigrisprowl 8:15 pm "Unconditional" is an abuser code word for "submissive doormat who never questions me and accepts anything I do." MedicalMurdersaurus 8:15 pm Needs dirt Kelpy 8:15 pm This is a weirdly knowledgable flashback from a bartender. Chillsins 8:16 pm *It smells like slobber, dirt, and maybe a whiff of pumpkin spice lattes* Kelpy 8:16 pm I say that as a bartender. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:16 pm More dirt Chillsins 8:16 pm *Don't ask how.* verdigrisprowl 8:16 pm Oh, he's got an impressive-looking dungeon. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:16 pm *the dragon WAS going to say that being in a pairbond is considered to be unconditional love, but she's going to look over at Prowl in surprise instead* verdigrisprowl 8:16 pm Too bad he's a creep. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:16 pm ((Is that whatshisface from Heroes? Peter?) chronosmith 8:17 pm Shame they don't have anyone on the force who can smell worth a damn. Kelpy 8:17 pm That is an *EXTREMELY* knowledgable bartender. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:17 pm Is the docent sleep- oh dear, he was asleep. chronosmith 8:17 pm get a detective like Ravage or hell, even ME in there--if I was a detective, which, obviously, I'm NOT... and you could track em. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:17 pm ((AAAAAAAAAAA)) opatoes 8:17 pm A gun range, also known as a grunge NoodlesAtNight 8:17 pm *Soundwave looks up the last capture of the subtitle with his name in it and how the English word for gymnasium is spelled. Takes him just a second. * @P: [[To them, you are saying {G-Y-M}, but his name is {J-I-M}. If he were a Cybertronian, he would undo locks for a living, not be an exercise station.]] Chillsins 8:17 pm Pffft. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:17 pm *perks up* Gun range? SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:18 pm He could shoot you. Chillsins 8:18 pm *Snorts.* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:18 pm OH. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:18 pm Me Swoop good shot : > NoodlesAtNight 8:18 pm ((SHIT i forgot to provide warning to snif about today i think)) ((woop)) opatoes 8:18 pm I *fingered* they'd do that! chronosmith 8:18 pm ((o7 we can always say you did, if you like!)) SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:18 pm *looks at Smokescreen* Why. chronosmith 8:18 pm *either way he became suddenly and intensely interetsed in his drink the moment he saw where that was going* opatoes 8:19 pm Was it that punbelievable? verdigrisprowl 8:19 pm Or she might have been imprisoned. chronosmith 8:19 pm *and by interested I mean shotgunning all of it* verdigrisprowl 8:19 pm She could have been treated well while imprisoned. NoodlesAtNight 8:19 pm [[And he agrees that nothing good is unconditional. All things worthwhile come with conditions. It is how that worthiness is maintained.]] Kelpy 8:19 pm .... Chillsins 8:19 pm Who keeps having these flashbacks? Is it the bartender again? Kelpy 8:20 pm Her corpse guess NoodlesAtNight 8:20 pm [[We do.]] SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:20 pm Padded walls, velveted cuffs, removed claws. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:20 pm *pulls his legs up to his chest, wraps his arms around them and rests his chin on his knees* Chillsins 8:20 pm I guess that'll do. NoodlesAtNight 8:20 pm [[It is for our information, not theirs.]] =Hm. Detective Ravage.= verdigrisprowl 8:20 pm I didn't say "nothing good is unconditional." Just that the kind of people who demand unconditional love, especially very early in the relationship, are throwing up red flags. Chillsins 8:20 pm It's a joke. NoodlesAtNight 8:20 pm [[He was speaking of love.]] chronosmith 8:20 pm I dunno. I think it's good to know that your beau would kick your ass, if you needed your ass kicked. verdigrisprowl 8:20 pm ... Especially the kind of people who have a string of exes that LEFT because he demanded "unconditional love." NoodlesAtNight 8:21 pm [[Or of loyalty, but the two are often entwined.]] //Hope she clawed his fraggin' optics out.// MedicalMurdersaurus 8:21 pm *looks around* What movie? SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:21 pm Hopefully. chronosmith 8:21 pm *well. Now his glass is empty. He will be right back, Rumble* Chillsins 8:21 pm What what movie? MedicalMurdersaurus 8:21 pm ((I love her white nails)) verdigrisprowl 8:21 pm "Nothing good is unconditional" and "people who demand unconditional are not good" are two different points. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:21 pm *points to the screen* What. verdigrisprowl 8:21 pm I agree with your point, but it's not the point I was making. Chillsins 8:21 pm It's not a movie. NoodlesAtNight 8:21 pm [[Then he makes his and agrees with yours.]] MedicalMurdersaurus 8:21 pm YOU not a movie Chillsins 8:21 pm *No wonder him Swoop so confused.* Chillsins 8:22 pm ...This is true. NoodlesAtNight 8:22 pm [[Ah. Too slow.]] MedicalMurdersaurus 8:22 pm 😆 Chillsins 8:22 pm I've never been a movie. Not even once. verdigrisprowl 8:22 pm ... One exception. Laws of physics. Laws of physics should be unconditional. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:22 pm Not even once! *snickers* chronosmith 8:22 pm The only thing in the universe that is unconditional, and I mean this as in, it is an objective fact of the multiverse itself--*said as he approaches the bar to mix another, stronger Gaugebuster* --is that Starscream's voice is annoying. No matter what he does, or how he speaks. It's annoying. SCProwl 8:22 pm *leans forward, eager to see how she gets out of this* Chillsins 8:22 pm *Nods.* Don't want to be a movie, either. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:23 pm Why? Kelpy 8:23 pm Is she really that bad a liar. I thought she was good at coming up with excuses on the fly. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:23 pm ((guh, the cat pooped and it is toxic I'm dying)) chronosmith 8:23 pm I think this is an act. NoodlesAtNight 8:23 pm ((oh my god)) chronosmith 8:23 pm She's smarter than this. NoodlesAtNight 8:23 pm [[It seems she is making one up now.]] chronosmith 8:23 pm ((RIP in pieces specs)) verdigrisprowl 8:24 pm Whirl, I believed you have indeed discovered an unconditional fact of reality. NoodlesAtNight 8:24 pm *Rumble raises a hand to high five/two Whirl over the Starscream comment.* chronosmith 8:24 pm Yeah, she's completely playing him. NoodlesAtNight 8:24 pm *Sits up straight.* [[HE KNEW IT.]] Chillsins 8:24 pm Being a movie sounds boring. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:24 pm Fight movie cool 😆 This not fight movie :< Chillsins 8:24 pm Yeah... Kelpy 8:24 pm ... He can revive the dead? SCProwl 8:24 pm Ah, she is very good. Chillsins 8:24 pm But I don't want to fight forever either. So I don't want to be a fight movie. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:24 pm *hah* She got what she wanted. chronosmith 8:24 pm *pops that high five/two back once he's on his way back to the couch with the next gaugebuster* MedicalMurdersaurus 8:24 pm Joke movie verdigrisprowl 8:25 pm ((it averages out into a high 3.5)) SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:25 pm CAT HUMAN NoodlesAtNight 8:25 pm [[...He wonders what they were going to do with the children. Surely he does not get many adolescent patients.]] Chillsins 8:25 pm No. You go be a movie. verdigrisprowl 8:25 pm He might. Children of the rich. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:25 pm Kay! chronosmith 8:25 pm Why WOULDN'T you stay at one for a few days? SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:25 pm ...A gambling house, is it? chronosmith 8:25 pm It's nice and relaxing. verdigrisprowl 8:25 pm Hard to sleep. NoodlesAtNight 8:26 pm [[Hmm. He supposes some of their rich humans would care for their spawn. Exceptions, if nothing else.]] Chillsins 8:26 pm What kind of movie will you Swoop be? Fight movie? NoodlesAtNight 8:26 pm //Nah, it ain't a gamblin' house.// chronosmith 8:26 pm *sits down, gets comfortable, and gets back to chugging* MedicalMurdersaurus 8:26 pm FIGHT movie! Dogfight AND FIGHT fight! Kelpy 8:26 pm He recognizes it SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:26 pm Riddling human. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:27 pm And funny And blood! And guts! Chillsins 8:27 pm Best kind of movie. *Nods.* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:27 pm Ah, I was right. Velveted handcuffs. NoodlesAtNight 8:27 pm {{Him keeping her prisoner!! Break glass! Smash face!}} *Bird rattles.* SCProwl 8:27 pm Ah, the other officer set him up. verdigrisprowl 8:27 pm Rich and powerful humans are very invested in continuing their lineage through their offspring. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:27 pm I wonder if she's poisoned it. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:27 pm *snaps his head over to look at Bird when she starts rattling, puffing up his armor in response* opatoes 8:28 pm Primus, this is... This is really creepy. NoodlesAtNight 8:28 pm [[He doesn't see why. It is competition for their acquisition of wealth.]] verdigrisprowl 8:28 pm Their offspring don't get their wealth until the elders die. Chillsins 8:28 pm We know that. NoodlesAtNight 8:28 pm [[Ahhh.]] opatoes 8:29 pm Primus MedicalMurdersaurus 8:29 pm *stares at Bird while he tries to figure out what got her fussed, still a bit fluffed up himself* NoodlesAtNight 8:29 pm *Laserbeak hisses. That many.* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:29 pm *the dragon makes a noise* How... MedicalMurdersaurus 8:29 pm ((where is laserbeak?)) NoodlesAtNight 8:29 pm *She's so glad she has no interest in that.* ((floating over the swoop couch)) Kelpy 8:29 pm Well, that's uh. Not good. verdigrisprowl 8:29 pm He has such nice gear. What a waste. Kelpy 8:30 pm He doeas have nice gear though. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:30 pm *crawls slowly onto the back of the couch so he can be closer to her, watching for some kind of cue if he's supposed to tear a limb off someone* verdigrisprowl 8:30 pm Right? The heavy shackles shown earlier looked amazing. Kelpy 8:30 pm .... They're bait. She's going to take the helicopter and leave them to be bait, isn't she Chillsins 8:30 pm Probably. opatoes 8:31 pm Knowing her? Absolutely. NoodlesAtNight 8:31 pm [[Hmm. Satisfying.]] chronosmith 8:31 pm *finishes chugging the second one just in time* HAHA. Nice. opatoes 8:31 pm NICE chronosmith 8:31 pm She is the best. Chillsins 8:31 pm He'd better be dead. chronosmith 8:31 pm ...*up again. His glass is empty. Unacceptable* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:31 pm Why didn't she kill him? Chillsins 8:31 pm *Groans.* NoodlesAtNight 8:31 pm [[And the shackles did look quite sturdy.]] Kelpy 8:32 pm I should get, uh. Hm. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:32 pm *reaches over to nudge Bird* verdigrisprowl 8:32 pm Weighty, too. NoodlesAtNight 8:32 pm *Bird flinches and whips her feelers out - then settles. Just Swoop. It's fine. She pats his head.* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:33 pm *the dragon makes a mental note of something. poor Bird.* chronosmith 8:33 pm Takes care of her people first--and she can fly a--she's the best. *shakes his head* She's the best character in this show. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:33 pm *gets slightly less puffed up when she pats him, but is still staring at her* opatoes 8:33 pm oh frag NoodlesAtNight 8:33 pm //Hot damn, she's still flyin'.// SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:33 pm That looks bad. Kelpy 8:33 pm IS she seriously gonna fly with a bullet in the gut chronosmith 8:34 pm Why not? I have. *mixing another drink now* Chillsins 8:34 pm The Ogre. NoodlesAtNight 8:34 pm //Ain't like she got a choice. Can't land back there. Ain't nowhere else to go 'less she gets across the water.// Chillsins 8:34 pm *Snickers even though the topic isn't funny.* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:34 pm ((uh oh. Vanessa.)) NoodlesAtNight 8:35 pm //THAT is a shootin' gallery.// SCProwl 8:35 pm For drugs. NoodlesAtNight 8:35 pm //Seen our version of 'em loadsa times.// SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:35 pm Oh, not a gambling house. It's a drug den. Chillsins 8:35 pm Not as cool as the kind with guns. chronosmith 8:35 pm Oh. Huh. *pauses to take it in* Not my kinda place. Kelpy 8:35 pm Oh. Chillsins 8:36 pm *In fact he strongly disapproves of this kind.* opatoes 8:36 pm Oh! They're friends again? chronosmith 8:36 pm Heh. NoodlesAtNight 8:36 pm //Yeah. She found 'im at the hospital with Alfred.// chronosmith 8:36 pm See? This is why I never touch that slag. Look how easy you roll over for someone just to get your hit? Pathetic. PATHETIC. NoodlesAtNight 8:36 pm //Kid's gettin' cold.// chronosmith 8:36 pm *he says as he slams his third drink right AT the bar* opatoes 8:36 pm ... Is that what that kinda stuff does? SCProwl 8:37 pm Yes. chronosmith 8:37 pm Better sooner than later. Gotta learn sometime. NoodlesAtNight 8:37 pm *Laserbeak is mostly calmed down now again. For the moment.* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:37 pm If he wants to survive, he might have to be cold. chronosmith 8:37 pm You MADE it his business, idiot. opatoes 8:37 pm Well, I'm glad I haven't tried that kinda thing much! MedicalMurdersaurus 8:37 pm *makes a face at Bird* Chillsins 8:37 pm Sad. NoodlesAtNight 8:37 pm {{...What?}} MedicalMurdersaurus 8:38 pm *blows raspberries then giggles* chronosmith 8:38 pm Saw too many burnouts in the dead end. Nothing more pathetic than a junkie looking for a fix. NoodlesAtNight 8:38 pm @P: [[The things you experiment with - are you ever concerned that you will end up in a place like this?]] SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:38 pm Make a threat like that... There it is. Are they..? chronosmith 8:38 pm DO IT. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:38 pm She is. chronosmith 8:38 pm Good. opatoes 8:39 pm Phff- Chillsins 8:39 pm There you go. Kelpy 8:39 pm Oh my SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:39 pm Not quite cold enough yet, little batling. SCProwl 8:39 pm Hopefully never. chronosmith 8:39 pm See? Point proven. Chillsins 8:39 pm 'Bout time someone had the sense to off one of these guys. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:39 pm Little bastard of a commissioner. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:39 pm Bird. NoodlesAtNight 8:40 pm {{What?}} MedicalMurdersaurus 8:40 pm You mad Bird? verdigrisprowl 8:40 pm @S «No, because I do all my worrying up front, /before/ the experimenting. I don't touch anything that hasn't been cleared as non-addictive and temporary.» NoodlesAtNight 8:40 pm {{Not at Swoop. Swoop best face maker.}} *Rolls upside down to be cute.* @P: [[And you're never tempted?]] Chillsins 8:41 pm Big dick energy. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:41 pm *tilts with her until he is off balance enough to slide off the sofa into a handstand* chronosmith 8:41 pm *snickers* verdigrisprowl 8:41 pm ... Didn't Gym come after the one HE loved first? NoodlesAtNight 8:41 pm *She flips upright and cackles softly.* Chillsins 8:41 pm Better check the swamp. opatoes 8:41 pm ... He kinda did the batman voice Kelpy 8:41 pm Wow he's... Angry opatoes 8:41 pm even though he's not NoodlesAtNight 8:41 pm [[He did not know the Commissioner's daughter was there. He was expecting paperwork.]] verdigrisprowl 8:42 pm Sure, but he still used her for blackmail. NoodlesAtNight 8:42 pm [[Perhaps - but that, to try to free Bullock and the others from having to do things like this.]] MedicalMurdersaurus 8:42 pm *smiles, he did good* verdigrisprowl 8:42 pm Accusing HIM of crossing the lime that Gym crossed first is... a little hypocritical. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:43 pm Because you couldn't. Claws, little cat. Keep them sharp. chronosmith 8:43 pm I mean, isn't it implied that this Loeb guy is using the serial killer to do his thing? Isn't that what he meant by putting her in danger? MedicalMurdersaurus 8:43 pm *kicks his feet forward and flaps his wings to get enough momentum to pop himself upright* chronosmith 8:44 pm So between looking for blackmail material and using a serial killer to commit ANOTHER crime to get back at someone... *singsong voice* One of these things is not like the other~ verdigrisprowl 8:44 pm I'm not saying Gym was wrong to use her OR wrong to be mad when it was turned around on him, but he's just—it's just factually inaccurate to say that the commissioner is the one who crossed the "using a loved one against someone" line first. NoodlesAtNight 8:44 pm [[That is fair.]] SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:44 pm No, little cat, keep him /distracted/. If he mulls on it too much, he will- RIDDLING HUMAN! Chillsins 8:44 pm That's not how you eat a watermelon. NoodlesAtNight 8:44 pm //What'd the orbs do to you, Ed fleshie?// SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:44 pm They were delicious. chronosmith 8:44 pm I'd figured you'd be all on board with him following the letter of the law. opatoes 8:44 pm That's one way to play with food! SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:45 pm Thank the riddling human! Chillsins 8:45 pm It's a thankless job. chronosmith 8:45 pm Which includes dealing with, y'know. The fact that someone was murdered instead of killed in an accident. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:45 pm She's dead. opatoes 8:45 pm oh no verdigrisprowl 8:45 pm I /am/ all on board with him following the letter of the law, /but/ that's not the point that I'm presently making. Kelpy 8:45 pm Why isn't she calling back? Kelpy 8:46 pm No don't put it down SCProwl 8:46 pm ((cat scare, rude SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:46 pm Follow the cat, the cat is smart. opatoes 8:46 pm better yet call while looking around NoodlesAtNight 8:46 pm [[Heh.]] ((i love the crosshairs window)) chronosmith 8:46 pm Hmm. You're probably right. *he's mixing drink number four* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:46 pm ((PFFF)) SCProwl 8:46 pm Why is her window wide open in a city like this? NoodlesAtNight 8:47 pm [[Too trusting, he assumes.]] [[Or her home's ventilation system is broken.]] chronosmith 8:47 pm Option number three: set a trap for the guy. Kill him first. Chillsins 8:47 pm That works. chronosmith 8:47 pm Toss him out a window... wait in a closet with a knife. Give her a gun. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:47 pm *looks over at Soundwave's Prowl to see what he thinks about this* Chillsins 8:48 pm At least these guys have some chemistry. NoodlesAtNight 8:48 pm @P: [[...For the record, do as she asked him to do.]] SCProwl 8:48 pm ...ah. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:48 pm Oh. opatoes 8:48 pm oh no Kelpy 8:48 pm So... he picked the ex as his loved one? verdigrisprowl 8:48 pm ((you've gotta start referring to prowls as something other than "soundwave's" because there are two different ways that can be read)) NoodlesAtNight 8:49 pm [[It seems his information is outdated.]] chronosmith 8:49 pm *pauses over drink #4* have her hide a poison knife somewhere on her person... honestly. Chillsins 8:49 pm She should kill him instead. NoodlesAtNight 8:49 pm //Oo, poison knife. I like that.// SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:49 pm ((the dragon's internal monologue goes "prowl dating soundwave (soundwave's prowl)" and "other prowls")) ((but I will try to specify better)) chronosmith 8:49 pm So many fun ways to kill someone who would do your lvoed ones harm, so little time. *toasts the concept* Hell yeah, Rumble. verdigrisprowl 8:49 pm *his face is usually pretty blank. right now is no exception.* Kelpy 8:49 pm Yeah apparently his info is outdated. chronosmith 8:50 pm Preferably a paralytic agent, right? That way once he just collapses you can do whatever you want. *TIME TO CHUG DRINK #4 HE'S GOING FOR THE RECORD TONIGHT* NoodlesAtNight 8:50 pm //Yeah, but not somethin' numbin'.// SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:50 pm *ah, alright. sometimes he makes expressions at the antics Jim gets up to.* chronosmith 8:50 pm 'Course not. Chillsins 8:50 pm Ooh, what a blow. NoodlesAtNight 8:50 pm *Damn. Whirl's knockin' 'em back, ain't he?* chronosmith 8:51 pm There he is again. Doing the stupid thing of flaunting his weakness in front of everyone. Someone's going to cap her. And I'M going to laugh. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:51 pm I know, Whirl! He says everyone's motivated by things, and then he shows off his motivation to the whole world. I think I'd feel too much pity to laugh. chronosmith 8:51 pm I dunno, watching him suffer would be fun, I think. chronosmith 8:52 pm He's such a smug little guy. NoodlesAtNight 8:52 pm [[Most times, he has the right to be.]] Chillsins 8:52 pm The Ogre. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:52 pm *looks over at Whirl* What flaunt? Chillsins 8:52 pm *Giggles again* chronosmith 8:52 pm It'll make it that much more satisfying when someone ELSE has a chance to be smug. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:52 pm *has no idea what they are watching, cause he's been watching Bird* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:52 pm He's not stupid. He does what he does, he does it well, and he takes some pride in that. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:52 pm *but he heard a dino-word* Chillsins 8:53 pm Flaunt means showing off. chronosmith 8:53 pm I can't believe this guy is out here giving Shrek a bad name. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:53 pm Duh! Chillsins 8:53 pm It's a disgrace. opatoes 8:53 pm but what if the murderer's a cop NoodlesAtNight 8:53 pm [[Because placing cops on people has worked so well before.]] *Thinking of the mayor.* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:53 pm Honestly... I am wondering. chronosmith 8:54 pm The Penguin. *mixing another gaugebuster* He made a point of telling someone that he was able to take down someone once he knew what drove them. Chillsins 8:54 pm She sounds very enthusiastic. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:54 pm Does he not like being called a riddl- ling. ... Oh no. verdigrisprowl 8:54 pm Enigma is going to commit a murder. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:54 pm I think you are right, Prowl. Kelpy 8:54 pm He is SCProwl 8:55 pm Doesn't everyone in this city eventually? NoodlesAtNight 8:55 pm [[The world will be better for it.]] opatoes 8:55 pm hardly an enigma why though chronosmith 8:55 pm And yet here he is, making it obvious for anyone who wants a chance at hurting HIM. He loves his progenitor. Loves her sooo much. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:55 pm It surely will be. NoodlesAtNight 8:55 pm [[Though it is against the law.]] verdigrisprowl 8:55 pm ... With exquisitely misleading evidence. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:55 pm Progenitor means..... ? Chillsins 8:55 pm Creator. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:55 pm Oh! chronosmith 8:55 pm What he said. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:55 pm Me Swoop creator is Ratchet. And Wheeljack! chronosmith 8:56 pm *takes his new drink and finally returns to the couch, flopping back next to Rumble and staring darkly at the screen* NoodlesAtNight 8:56 pm //Probably figures he's strong enough to make sure don't nobody touch her.// Chillsins 8:56 pm And how does that make you feel? SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:56 pm HAH. NoodlesAtNight 8:56 pm @W: //...You okay, mech?// MedicalMurdersaurus 8:56 pm Feel? SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:56 pm I can hear Alfred's blood pressure going up. Chillsins 8:56 pm You have feelings, yeah? chronosmith 8:56 pm ((alfred's smile omg)) SCProwl 8:56 pm ((it's like that, bruce Kelpy 8:56 pm IS this the beginning of the Batman/Catwoman ship[ MedicalMurdersaurus 8:56 pm Yah! Duh! chronosmith 8:56 pm @R: I will be. NoodlesAtNight 8:57 pm [[It must be. He does seem enamored of her.]] Chillsins 8:57 pm Eh, it was a joke anyway. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:57 pm Jokes funny SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:57 pm It's very cute. Hatchlings can't pairbond, but it does seem like that's where it's heading. NoodlesAtNight 8:57 pm @W: //Anythin' I could do? Somethin' I oughta know? Mechs I gotta punch?// Chillsins 8:57 pm You're funny. MedicalMurdersaurus 8:57 pm Yah! 😆 chronosmith 8:58 pm *outwardly, he shakes his head* ... @R: Just feeling. Off tonight. *obviously thought he could handle a little something he couldn't* Chillsins 8:58 pm *Nods.* MedicalMurdersaurus 8:58 pm Me Swoop am very funny SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:58 pm Oh no. Is he going to get into a fistfight with a serial killer? Chillsins 8:58 pm I mean, I would. verdigrisprowl 8:58 pm ... Is he implying that specializing in fake boobs and having ethics are considered incompatible to humans? SCProwl 8:58 pm No, he's going to almost get run over by a serial killer. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:58 pm I would too, if I was designed for fistfights. Chillsins 8:58 pm But then, I tend to win fistfights. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 8:59 pm I don't fistfight. I bite bite. NoodlesAtNight 8:59 pm [[.........He has no idea. He did not know that could even be falsified.]] verdigrisprowl 8:59 pm Are fake boobs unethical? MedicalMurdersaurus 8:59 pm Me Swoop fistfight AND bite 😆 NoodlesAtNight 8:59 pm [[Perhaps if they've been weaponized. Filled with poison gas, or something of the sort.]] Chillsins 8:59 pm Do you Swoop win? MedicalMurdersaurus 9:00 pm Yah! Most. Chillsins 9:00 pm Good. MedicalMurdersaurus 9:00 pm Sometimes SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:00 pm Brave, brave man. verdigrisprowl 9:00 pm I've never seen weaponized boobs. Chillsins 9:00 pm Whirl has weaponized boobs. MedicalMurdersaurus 9:00 pm Me Swoop am smallest Dinobot. Sludge can squish Me. chronosmith 9:00 pm *takes a long drink, and then nudges Rumble* @R: I really DO appreciate your willingness to fight anything that might have upset me. ...and I don't doubt your ability, either. MedicalMurdersaurus 9:00 pm Grimlock and Slag PUNCH NoodlesAtNight 9:00 pm [[Of course you have.]] *Soundwave stretches an arm out to point at Laserbeak.* chronosmith 9:01 pm ((omg bruce)) verdigrisprowl 9:01 pm ... You're calling your own deployer a boob? Soundwave. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:01 pm *laughter* I feel sorry for poor Barbara. I mean, I don't. chronosmith 9:01 pm I do! opatoes 9:01 pm barbera has a daughter now SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:01 pm But, she was flabbergasted. NoodlesAtNight 9:01 pm *Soft huffing.* [[Anatomical jokes. She is quite competent, I assure you.]] chronosmith 9:01 pm I got the best damn boobs of all. The kind that can kill someone. NoodlesAtNight 9:01 pm {{Competent! Bird BEST.}} MedicalMurdersaurus 9:01 pm Boob Chillsins 9:02 pm Killer boobs all around. MedicalMurdersaurus 9:02 pm *is being a parrot, not adding to the conversation* opatoes 9:02 pm oh dear SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:02 pm *looks over at-* WHIRL. MedicalMurdersaurus 9:02 pm ((jesus christ)) SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:02 pm IT'S HAPPENING. Chillsins 9:02 pm *Don't be silly boob is an essential element to any conversation.* chronosmith 9:02 pm GOOD. Chillsins 9:02 pm Well, Whirl, you were right. chronosmith 9:02 pm ...oh damn he's doing even worse. He's. opatoes 9:02 pm is... is oswald getting a stepdad NoodlesAtNight 9:02 pm *Rumble nods to Whirl. Of course he's willing to fight. But if it ain't something that can be shared, he'll be quiet.* chronosmith 9:03 pm *he's joking, but he's delivering it straight* He's going to be his new dad. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:03 pm *laughs* What a twist. Chillsins 9:03 pm He doesn't seem like a good new dad. Kelpy 9:03 pm Aw, she cleans up cute for a kid. verdigrisprowl 9:03 pm *leans on Soundwave* Anyway, I meant human boobs. Not weapons in approximately the same place as boobs. chronosmith 9:03 pm That makes his revenge even more perfect. SCProwl 9:03 pm ((baby batcat is so adorable <3 NoodlesAtNight 9:04 pm *Leans back in.* [[Ah. Then he does not think he has seen any, either. But he is not interested in interfacing with organics.]] Chaoit 9:04 pm ((Ihoi NoodlesAtNight 9:04 pm [[Perhaps some of them are hiding them.]] SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:04 pm Wise idea, Harvey. Bets on the new girlfriend being the corpse in the bed? opatoes 9:04 pm oh no oh no oh no verdigrisprowl 9:04 pm ... Do you need to be interested in interfacing with organics to see weaponized boobs? Chillsins 9:05 pm I've seen organic boobs. verdigrisprowl 9:05 pm ...... I HAVE seen a weaponized bra. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:05 pm I have never met a dragon with boobs, much less weaponized boobs. NoodlesAtNight 9:05 pm [[He does not imagine they would disrobe for any other reason. They do not on their shows. Except for bathing, and he is not interested in that either.]] *Pause.* [[You have?]] SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:05 pm *she assumes boobs are like what Whirl has, with machine guns* verdigrisprowl 9:05 pm Yes. It wasn't a very good weapon. Chillsins 9:05 pm *Let's just say that Spec's assumption is right.* opatoes 9:05 pm that is your name! MedicalMurdersaurus 9:06 pm That pretty boring dance Chillsins 9:06 pm Yeah. NoodlesAtNight 9:07 pm [[...What did it do?]] opatoes 9:07 pm One mistake? SCProwl 9:07 pm ((oh hey, Niles opatoes 9:07 pm ... Is it that he got caught? NoodlesAtNight 9:07 pm //Heck of an ongoin' single mistake.// SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:07 pm I suspect it was that he got caught. Chillsins 9:07 pm Pfft. MedicalMurdersaurus 9:07 pm Them need Bird for better dance music : > verdigrisprowl 9:07 pm Briefly obscure an officer's vision. chronosmith 9:07 pm *they are two guns, not necessarily machine guns* Chillsins 9:07 pm Yes, let's have a public fight, at a ball no less. chronosmith 9:08 pm Hell yeah, Cat. NoodlesAtNight 9:08 pm *Soundwave straightens up, motionless - then leans forward, shoulders shaking.* {{Peh. Them not know how dancing Bird music.}} SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:08 pm Riddling human, no. opatoes 9:08 pm riddle man SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:08 pm Don't do it. NoodlesAtNight 9:08 pm //Aw, c'mon, don't kill 'im in public.// opatoes 9:08 pm is he gonna... SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:08 pm *the dragon hides her face* MedicalMurdersaurus 9:08 pm How dance for Bird music? :V Chillsins 9:08 pm His name makes me think of doughnuts. NoodlesAtNight 9:08 pm //They're all gonna see.// SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:08 pm NO. chronosmith 9:08 pm I mean, I don't dance, of course, but if I did, I'd need something more sprightly than THAT limp stuff. Kelpy 9:09 pm [twitches fingers] NoodlesAtNight 9:09 pm //HE needs a firm hand. Squeezin' his puny flesh neck.// opatoes 9:09 pm ... Nygma please demolish him somehow chronosmith 9:09 pm Honestly, yeah. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:09 pm *groans* He's going to commit a murder. He doesn't know it yet, but he's going to. Poor riddling human, he's going to be arrested by the Jim human. verdigrisprowl 9:10 pm Yep. He's definitely plotting murder. NoodlesAtNight 9:10 pm {{Bird dance music for strong, fast.}} chronosmith 9:10 pm More power to him. Go for it! Take your first life! MedicalMurdersaurus 9:10 pm *bobs a little as he tries to imagine some of Bird's songs* chronosmith 9:11 pm I think he's ruined his chances with that girl by being creepy but honestly, what's more romantic than presenting your beau with the corpse of someone who hurt them? SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:11 pm Give us a picture, old man. Chillsins 9:11 pm He had surgery, perhaps. They showed us that. opatoes 9:11 pm He did go to a surgical place chronosmith 9:12 pm Yeah. Bunch of folks with brand new faces. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:12 pm He did indeed. verdigrisprowl 9:12 pm Even recommended an employee to them. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:12 pm OH. chronosmith 9:12 pm Oh, come on, that's not so bad. opatoes 9:12 pm oh dear SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:12 pm *the dragon makes a face* How did he EAT? chronosmith 9:12 pm *perks up; oh, this is good* *Whirl is HERE to watch him squirm* MedicalMurdersaurus 9:12 pm ((that is some next level emo fringe)) Chillsins 9:13 pm (( It bothers me, it looks so greasy. )) chronosmith 9:13 pm *leans forward, optic widening* opatoes 9:13 pm oh wow chronosmith 9:13 pm Oh, this is too good. This is TOO GOOD. NoodlesAtNight 9:13 pm ((it's supposed to; he's a dirty birdy. they give him dirty nails and whatnot too)) SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:13 pm *the dragon watches with bated breath* Chillsins 9:14 pm (( It's NASTY. )) (( But yes I have noticed. )) chronosmith 9:14 pm He should've kept going and gave her a heart attack. verdigrisprowl 9:14 pm Hm. And here I thought he was just going to hurt her. He DID hurt her, but not the way I expected. NoodlesAtNight 9:14 pm [[The way he hurt her is worse.]] Kelpy 9:14 pm Dunno, mental and emotional anguish for her seems to be more effectve. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:14 pm The Penguin is going to kill him. MedicalMurdersaurus 9:14 pm ((barb why do you have xenomorph hair)) MedicalMurdersaurus 9:15 pm ((just because you have big hair doesn't mean you have enough secrets to fill it)) Kelpy 9:15 pm Ed, nooo. Chillsins 9:15 pm Sure was, sicko. chronosmith 9:15 pm Oh, boo hoo. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:16 pm Mhm. chronosmith 9:16 pm Go sit in a corner and cry about it. Kelpy 9:16 pm She's a horrible girlfriend. verdigrisprowl 9:16 pm Oh, you poor, lonely little sparkless killer. opatoes 9:16 pm dump him Kelpy 9:16 pm You don't wanna date her either. chronosmith 9:16 pm I mean, point, Swerve. SCProwl 9:16 pm Ugh. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:16 pm Bite his lips off. opatoes 9:16 pm oh no chronosmith 9:16 pm Ha. Nice. Chillsins 9:17 pm Nice. opatoes 9:17 pm good teamwork! SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:17 pm Good job, bitlets! chronosmith 9:18 pm What an intimidating callout. Kelpy 9:18 pm Ed, please. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:18 pm Riddling human. No, opatoes 9:18 pm ed oh no chronosmith 9:18 pm Ohh, is this where it happens? SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:18 pm No. He's going to do it. Kelpy 9:18 pm [holds face] SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:18 pm Of course he is. chronosmith 9:18 pm *clicks his free claw eagerly* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:18 pm *sighs and winces* chronosmith 9:18 pm HAHAAA SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:18 pm There it goes. chronosmith 9:18 pm There ya go! SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:18 pm And he just realized how good he is at it. chronosmith 9:19 pm Look at him! He's getting into it! opatoes 9:19 pm whoooooops chronosmith 9:19 pm This is precious. This is honestly precious. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:19 pm Clean yourself up, riddling human. SCProwl 9:19 pm This won't be the last time he does this. verdigrisprowl 9:19 pm Enigma. You should have stopped at one. opatoes 9:19 pm ... he's been investigating this stuff for years he should know how to hide the evidence Kelpy 9:19 pm [anorts at Prowl] NoodlesAtNight 9:19 pm [[What difference does it make? The fleshling is dead either way.]] Chillsins 9:19 pm One would think. verdigrisprowl 9:19 pm You're a forensic investigator, you know that multiple stabs show evidence of a crime of passion. NoodlesAtNight 9:19 pm [[Ah.]] SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:19 pm It will not be his last. chronosmith 9:20 pm If he burns the body, though, they won't be able to figure out how many times he was stabbed! ...*again is paying close attention* verdigrisprowl 9:20 pm You'd be surprised. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:20 pm I don't exactly think he is thinking straight. Chillsins 9:20 pm Eat the body. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:20 pm ...That would do it. NoodlesAtNight 9:20 pm //.....Yeah, I don't think she bought it, buddy.// MedicalMurdersaurus 9:20 pm Me SWOOP can burn bodies! :V chronosmith 9:21 pm Nope. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:21 pm Of course not. Chillsins 9:21 pm Please do not demonstrate in the building. chronosmith 9:21 pm All that cleverness couldn't make him a decent liar. I'm going to ENJOY this. MedicalMurdersaurus 9:21 pm With FACE > SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:21 pm It's hard to lie to a docent. WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT. opatoes 9:21 pm oswald no verdigrisprowl 9:21 pm Anyway, if you burn a body, then you have a burned body to deal with. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:21 pm WHY THERE Kelpy 9:21 pm Was... was he just a delivery man opatoes 9:21 pm Oswald are you gonna have to clean that up chronosmith 9:21 pm Scatter the ashes! verdigrisprowl 9:22 pm And the site of the burning. chronosmith 9:22 pm Right into that nasty water. verdigrisprowl 9:22 pm And during the time that it's burning, you have a fire. chronosmith 9:23 pm The police force in this town is stretched thin, and half of it's corrupt--go to a place where you know they won't go. Some big crime lord's stomping ground. He works for the cops, he knows the regulars. They might think it's a message for that hotshot new commissioner who's making waves--you kill one of his men and burn the body? Sounds like a message. chronosmith 9:24 pm Obviously a lot of this is "right time, right place" but he's in the right time at the right place. verdigrisprowl 9:24 pm No, the best strategy would be to make the killing look as anonymous and pointless as possible. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:24 pm *laughs despite herself* Oh, no. opatoes 9:24 pm ... is the music included or verdigrisprowl 9:24 pm One stab. Take his wallet. Leave him there. SCProwl 9:24 pm It might be. NoodlesAtNight 9:24 pm ((and now, for lighter content)) chronosmith 9:24 pm *tilts his head thoughtfully* Fair. Gotham's probably rife with that sort of thing. opatoes 9:24 pm like does he have the music start up anytime someone enters SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:24 pm That would be a fancy torture dungeon, to have its own soundtrack. He is rich enough. opatoes 9:24 pm lighter content sounds good right now but also cliffhanger Kelpy 9:24 pm ... chronosmith 9:24 pm BUT I'm talking about what you do AFTER you thoroughly enjoy yourself by stabbing him a bunch of times. Kelpy 9:25 pm Spiderman!@ verdigrisprowl 9:25 pm And that's why he shouldn't have stabbed a bunch of times. opatoes 9:25 pm SPIDEY chronosmith 9:25 pm I mean, you know how it is, in the heat of the moment. ...well, maybe not you. SCProwl 9:25 pm ...what is this then? verdigrisprowl 9:25 pm Yeah, can't relate. MedicalMurdersaurus 9:25 pm Bird NoodlesAtNight 9:25 pm [[Hmm. A dungeon that plays its own music.]] Chillsins 9:25 pm Snow fort. NoodlesAtNight 9:25 pm //It's the Avengin' superheroes. Different from Bat guy's world.// SCProwl 9:25 pm It wouldn't be difficult to set up something like that. Chillsins 9:25 pm *Pouts.* Kelpy 9:26 pm [thinking face] chronosmith 9:26 pm Then take it from an expert: getting to take out the full brunt of your revenge on someone who deserves it is a rare and highly treasured experience. opatoes 9:26 pm I want a lego movie about my universe chronosmith 9:26 pm Worth the extra work of hiding the evidence. Chillsins 9:26 pm Eat the snowball. chronosmith 9:26 pm ((this is adorbale omg)) SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:26 pm ((it is really really cute lmao)) MedicalMurdersaurus 9:26 pm *chews on his lip* opatoes 9:27 pm ((man now i'm imagining if they got to do like... do lego transformers movies)) Chillsins 9:27 pm It's a secret. Or not. NoodlesAtNight 9:27 pm ((there's the kreon commercials)) [[Ugh. Evil snow.]] opatoes 9:27 pm ((true! but it's no full episode or movie)) SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:27 pm How does one make /evil/ snow, anyways? Chillsins 9:27 pm You pee in it. MedicalMurdersaurus 9:27 pm Kehehheh Him squisih NoodlesAtNight 9:28 pm [[It's inherent to all snow.]] opatoes 9:28 pm how do you pe- I don't want to ask do I Kelpy 9:28 pm Some long tentacles Chillsins 9:28 pm Snow is pretty great. opatoes 9:28 pm uuuuggggh why are there so many feelers NoodlesAtNight 9:28 pm //Pfhfhfgehhghgehehh.// opatoes 9:28 pm he's wh Kelpy 9:28 pm [snickers about opverload] SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:28 pm I like snow. opatoes 9:28 pm phfhffbfff Chillsins 9:28 pm A snowflake a day keeps the Soundwaves away. MedicalMurdersaurus 9:28 pm Kehhehh Bird! He walk like BIrd. *waggles fingers* Feelers. chronosmith 9:29 pm ...you. *blinks at Rumble* You good? opatoes 9:29 pm Why can't you eat dryer lint ... what's dryer lint NoodlesAtNight 9:29 pm //Yeah. 'S nothin'.// NoodlesAtNight 9:29 pm [[Hmm. He wouldn't mind two more.]] Chillsins 9:29 pm Calamari is squid. opatoes 9:29 pm I wonder how much web fluid messy can make opatoes 9:30 pm I wanna try doing a spider-man style swing! MedicalMurdersaurus 9:30 pm Web fluid? Chillsins 9:30 pm *Squeals.* Kelpy 9:30 pm Too many overloads. opatoes 9:30 pm Yeah! The stuff used to-phpfhfhff To make webs! MedicalMurdersaurus 9:30 pm ((cro did you do this on purpose XD)) Chillsins 9:30 pm *Doubles over.* chronosmith 9:30 pm ((THERE'S MY BOOOYYYY)) NoodlesAtNight 9:30 pm ((i might've)) verdigrisprowl 9:30 pm *"he must have overloaded doc ock himself." SNORTS* Chillsins 9:30 pm (( VENOM. )) chronosmith 9:30 pm (9I AGREE LOKI)) verdigrisprowl 9:30 pm ((ABSOLUTELY WORTH OVERLOADING)) opatoes 9:31 pm ... give him the hot dog NoodlesAtNight 9:31 pm [[What a precious creature.]] SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:31 pm *the dragon is enjoying watching everyone else here try not to die laughing* chronosmith 9:31 pm Soundwave. Chillsins 9:31 pm That's enough for me, I can't handle any more overloads. chronosmith 9:31 pm I have some questions. NoodlesAtNight 9:31 pm [[Yes?]] Chillsins 9:31 pm (( I gotta miss Venom, I'm out. )) opatoes 9:31 pm big mood spidey NoodlesAtNight 9:31 pm //I don't think eyes is where tendrils go when overloadin's in the picture.// chronosmith 9:31 pm You got a little something on the brain? Kelpy 9:31 pm [giggles] NoodlesAtNight 9:31 pm ((awww seeya)) SCProwl 9:31 pm I doubt he was aiming for your eye. opatoes 9:31 pm SOUNDS NO chronosmith 9:32 pm *SNORK* verdigrisprowl 9:32 pm Don't kinkshame, Rumble. SCProwl 9:32 pm *huffs* SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:32 pm *the dragon just had to hear prowl say "kinkshame. that's it, she's laughing* opatoes 9:32 pm f chronosmith 9:32 pm *second snork* Chillsins 9:32 pm *Picks himself up. He must take care of his spawn.* NoodlesAtNight 9:33 pm //I ain't shamin' nothin'. I'm jus' sayin'. Sounds more painful than fun.// Chillsins 9:33 pm Bye, suckers. Have fun overloadin'. opatoes 9:33 pm Owww... NoodlesAtNight 9:33 pm *Bird cackles.* chronosmith 9:33 pm I'm going to agree. opatoes 9:33 pm phhhff- MedicalMurdersaurus 9:33 pm ((KEBOB BUB)) NoodlesAtNight 9:33 pm [[And he doesn't know what you mean, Whirl.]] opatoes 9:33 pm He's poor give him food! chronosmith 9:33 pm I've only ever had anything like tendrils very briefly but they weren't something you'd wanna put in sensitive places. Chillsins 9:33 pm *And he's gone.* chronosmith 9:34 pm Seeya, loser! opatoes 9:34 pm Aww, bye Windchill. Chillsins 9:34 pm My spawn await. (( Gotta pick up sister but I'll try to pop in next week. )) NoodlesAtNight 9:34 pm ((kk! drive safe)) SCProwl 9:34 pm ((the very vincible iron man NoodlesAtNight 9:34 pm ((LOL)) opatoes 9:34 pm You smell it? Ewwww. Chillsins 9:34 pm (( Thanks for LEGO. )) MedicalMurdersaurus 9:35 pm Him Spiderbot like spider stuff NoodlesAtNight 9:35 pm [[THAT IS NOT HOW THOSE WORK.]] [[...He thinks.]] *Mildly concerned now.* Kelpy 9:35 pm That's too many overloads. chronosmith 9:36 pm ((O/ DRIVE SAFE DUDE)) Chaoit 9:36 pm ....diiiid I chose a bad time to walk in? opatoes 9:36 pm Blaster! Welcome! SCProwl 9:36 pm ((i love that iron fist line forever opatoes 9:36 pm ... p primus chronosmith 9:36 pm *okay he can't help but snicker* verdigrisprowl 9:36 pm Hi. We're watching euphemisms. NoodlesAtNight 9:36 pm *HUFF* chronosmith 9:36 pm Y-yeah. Everyone knows overloading on the battlefield is the best. NoodlesAtNight 9:36 pm //HAAAAAAA// opatoes 9:37 pm What SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:37 pm *WHY IS EVERYTHING SO FUNNY* Kelpy 9:37 pm [cackles] opatoes 9:37 pm PFHFHPHFFF- chronosmith 9:37 pm *LAUGHS* NoodlesAtNight 9:37 pm *Rumble slumps sideways on the couch, fans whirling madly. He's laughing into his arms.* verdigrisprowl 9:37 pm *"AN ARMY OF OVERLOADS." snnnrk* MedicalMurdersaurus 9:37 pm *is laughing at this for ENTIRELY unrelated reasons* *is this show's actual target audience* Kelpy 9:37 pm [slumps down onto couch and just losing it] NoodlesAtNight 9:37 pm *Soundwave is not far behind. He's hiding his face on Prowl's shoulder.* opatoes 9:37 pm /Smokescreen's giggly the entire time/ Chaoit 9:38 pm Hi, Smokescreen...and...kinda....that's what they are, huh? NoodlesAtNight 9:38 pm *Swoop: The only one actually taking this show correctly.* SCProwl 9:38 pm *rubs visor and laughs into wrist* opatoes 9:38 pm Oh! Blaster, Blaster, do you know any instruments? NoodlesAtNight 9:38 pm //That ain't a skateboard! They're flat!// chronosmith 9:38 pm Hell yeah it's a skateboard! Look, it's as good as a skateboard. chronosmith 9:39 pm ...maybe it's more like a hoverboard. NoodlesAtNight 9:39 pm //THAT,// *pointing with one arm and trying not to laugh.* //Is a HOVERBOARD.// SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:39 pm *hey, just because the dragon doesn't know why everyone's laughing doesn't mean that she's not laughing about it either* Chaoit 9:39 pm Instruments? MedicalMurdersaurus 9:39 pm Him Hulk like Slag kehehh Chaoit 9:39 pm Yeah chronosmith 9:39 pm Are you sure? *peers* Cos it looks... like. opatoes 9:39 pm Really? You wanna try one right now? chronosmith 9:39 pm An. Overload. opatoes 9:39 pm I got a new alt mode, and it's really cool! NoodlesAtNight 9:39 pm *Rumble howls.* chronosmith 9:40 pm *watches, amused* NoodlesAtNight 9:40 pm [[/Do not call him fist./]] Chaoit 9:40 pm Like what? verdigrisprowl 9:40 pm What's wrong with calling him fist? opatoes 9:41 pm /Smokescreen's transforming into an instrumental organ!/ NoodlesAtNight 9:41 pm [[...Nothing.]] Chaoit 9:41 pm !!! verdigrisprowl 9:41 pm *at this point he's snorting every time they say "overload"* Chaoit 9:41 pm Since when did you turn into that? Kelpy 9:41 pm [just actively crying at this point] opatoes 9:42 pm Since yesterday, pretty much! MedicalMurdersaurus 9:42 pm *hops too* Chaoit 9:42 pm Cool! NoodlesAtNight 9:42 pm *Rumble just falls off the couch at this point. He's done. He's gone. Rumble is no more.* opatoes 9:42 pm I know, right? You wanna try playing me later? MedicalMurdersaurus 9:42 pm The Man of Spiders NoodlesAtNight 9:42 pm {{Peh. That not Man of Spiders. Tarantulas Man of Spiders.}} chronosmith 9:43 pm *drapes a claw dramatically over his chest as he mourns the loss of his beau* Chaoit 9:43 pm Ah...depends on how late you stay chronosmith 9:43 pm He gave himself. An overload. opatoes 9:43 pm Sounds good! I can stay a while tonight. verdigrisprowl 9:43 pm Several. MedicalMurdersaurus 9:43 pm Tarantulas chronosmith 9:43 pm So it would seem. verdigrisprowl 9:44 pm Well. You have to learn to enjoy your own company before you can learn to enjoy anyone else's. MedicalMurdersaurus 9:44 pm Him nooot Spiderman keheh chronosmith 9:44 pm That is PATENTLY untrue, Prowl. Kelpy 9:44 pm He made them wax the floor too much verdigrisprowl 9:45 pm Well. It certainly helps. MedicalMurdersaurus 9:45 pm You Bird thiiink Spiderbot want to funny *points at the screen* movie? NoodlesAtNight 9:45 pm {{Maybe next time, neheh.}} Kelpy 9:46 pm HAhahah MedicalMurdersaurus 9:46 pm Him weeeird bot SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:46 pm *the dragon stretches* That was... something. A good finish, maybe? chronosmith 9:46 pm Someone, please. This was a cry for help. Someone help our generous host. MedicalMurdersaurus 9:46 pm BUT! *bounces* Web fun. chronosmith 9:47 pm ...*peeps over the couch and reaches down to clamp one claw on Rumble, lifting him claw-machine-style* And maybe Rumble, too. You still alive? Kelpy 9:47 pm [still giggling quietly where he's slumped on the couch] NoodlesAtNight 9:47 pm *The weakest raised hand with thumb up ever.* MedicalMurdersaurus 9:48 pm *perks up at the music* Oh! No more movie. SpecsTheSpectralDragon 9:48 pm Goodnight, everyone! *she's taking the butter with her* NoodlesAtNight 9:48 pm *Soundwave just stays with his visor hidden. He doesn't want to look at anyone else here right now. They might see that he's laughing.* MedicalMurdersaurus 9:48 pm Me Swoop have to back now, Bird? NoodlesAtNight 9:48 pm //N-night, dr-d- dragon.// opatoes 9:48 pm OH oh oh Blaster, Blaster- do you want to try that thing, by the way? chronosmith 9:48 pm *reaches over and deposits him on the couch* I think he'll make it. See you, Butterbeast. NoodlesAtNight 9:48 pm //Whoop!!// SCProwl 9:48 pm ((I saw the Cap and Iron Man short and now I want to watch it NoodlesAtNight 9:49 pm {{Ya. Bird got to work. Other Cybertron, far, far.}} Chaoit 9:49 pm Sure? -he's a little worried about everyone's laughter at this point- MedicalMurdersaurus 9:49 pm *kicks his legs and looks disappointed* Kaaay NoodlesAtNight 9:49 pm ((oh! time marker, uhhh, 10:05)) opatoes 9:49 pm /Smokescreen's transforming to root mode, scooting closer to blaster, before transforming back to organ mode again./ You ever try this kinda instrument? SCProwl 9:50 pm Well, tonight was certainly... something. Chaoit 9:50 pm Hmn...kinda. It's been a while since I've had time to play any instrument opatoes 9:50 pm It's been a really interesting night, yeah! opatoes 9:51 pm Wait, really? What kinda stuff can you do? What are the pedals at the bottom for? chronosmith 9:51 pm Okay. I got a request, if you got the time for it. Literally ANY instrumental version of Moon River you can find. Don't care what kind of cover it is. SCProwl 9:51 pm You can play? NoodlesAtNight 9:51 pm [[He apologizes for nothing. It is good to break from tense content.]] SCProwl 9:52 pm Yes, these Gotham stories have certainly been overloaded with tension. MedicalMurdersaurus 9:52 pm *pushes off the couch to stand up, then stands around awkwardly* chronosmith 9:52 pm *somewhere deep down, Whirl appreciates it. That scene from the beginning has been playing on an endless loop in his mind all night. ..and on that note, he still has a double Gaugebuster to take care of, so he'll start drinking* Chaoit 9:52 pm I was taught how to play most instruments, but that was before the War NoodlesAtNight 9:52 pm *Another huff.* [[You were waiting for that.]] chronosmith 9:53 pm *not instrumental, but he can appreciate Audrey Hepburn* *salutes Soundwave* NoodlesAtNight 9:53 pm ((ah i missed it was instrumental requested)) chronosmith 9:54 pm ((o7 you're fine my ddue!)) ...ddue)) MedicalMurdersaurus 9:54 pm *doesn't know what to do with himself, so he wanders closer to Bird, pauses long enough to be a lanky weirdo, then turns to the door* NoodlesAtNight 9:54 pm *Bird pats Swoop, scoops the treat mush up to plop it on his shoulder, cackles, and flies upstairs* MedicalMurdersaurus 9:54 pm ((whoops! XD)) chronosmith 9:54 pm ((i figure under the circumstances it makes sense for soundwave maybe to have missed that. what with all the overloads)) NoodlesAtNight 9:54 pm ((AHAHGAHHG)) MedicalMurdersaurus 9:54 pm *laughs at the mush, brushing it off onto the floor and then just meandering out towards the door* Chaoit 9:55 pm And...maybe. Probably not well, I'm out of practice SCProwl 9:55 pm *says nothing to Soundwave's comment* I'm sure anything you play will be fine. opatoes 9:55 pm Hey! Probably better than me, I've never played before yesterday. Chaoit 9:57 pm ((sorry, bird is screaming his little head off chronosmith 9:57 pm *finishes chugging the last of his drink; drunk? No Tipsy? By now, he is, indeed, tipsy* All right, losers. I'm out. See you next week. Kelpy 9:57 pm Later. [his vents are starting to sound a bit wheezy] NoodlesAtNight 9:57 pm *Wheezy* //Seeya. Don't stay gone too long.// NoodlesAtNight 9:58 pm *Half-afted bop.* chronosmith 9:58 pm 'Course not. *nudges him affectionately in response to the bop* *and streetches, standing* opatoes 9:59 pm Aww- night! Chaoit 10:00 pm ((anyway! Smokey, you don't mind if Blaster give this a try? chronosmith 10:00 pm *salutes one last time, and he is gone* opatoes 10:01 pm ((He doesn't mind at all! he's pretty much like "hey play me i wanna learn how to play myself")) Chaoit 10:02 pm ((oh, awesome, gotcha Chaoit 10:03 pm Alright...this might feel a bit weird...but I'll see what I remember opatoes 10:03 pm It's all good! Soundwave tapped me once earlier, I'm sure this won't feel weird. NoodlesAtNight 10:04 pm [[Ah. Perhaps you should play outside? The music will clash.]] opatoes 10:04 pm Oh. Oh yeah, that's true- Dang. Kelpy 10:04 pm Has there ever even been instrument alt modes before? Other than like, radios. opatoes 10:05 pm I think there has been! But in like, the universe where they're 90% chins SCProwl 10:05 pm I arrested someone that could turn into a drum once. Kelpy 10:05 pm Wild. Chaoit 10:05 pm -snorts- Wow NoodlesAtNight 10:08 pm [[Let him guess. You heard the drumbeats and charged him with assault.]] opatoes 10:08 pm Did you have to announce the suspect with a drumroll first? Chaoit 10:08 pm -snorts- Okay that was bad NoodlesAtNight 10:09 pm [[He used all the content on the overload show.]] *Streeeeetch. [[Time to close down for the night, he thinks.]] Kelpy 10:10 pm Good idea. [snickers and slides off the couch] I better get back anyway, Rodimus is waiting for me. So, see ya. NoodlesAtNight 10:10 pm [[Next time, Swerve.]] *Nod.* SCProwl 10:10 pm Goodnight. Kelpy 10:10 pm HAve fun! opatoes 10:10 pm Aww- well, hope to see you all later! Have a good night. Chaoit 10:10 pm Good night Kelpy 10:10 pm [heads for the door] opatoes 10:10 pm Do you need any help cleaning up or anything, Soundwave? NoodlesAtNight 10:11 pm [[No, thank you. He'll see to that later.]] opatoes 10:11 pm Fair enough! Have a good night, then. NoodlesAtNight 10:12 pm *Nods.* opatoes 10:12 pm /Smokescreen's grabbing a few drinks before finally heading off!/ Chaoit 10:13 pm -and he's waving a farewell himself as he leaves himself- verdigrisprowl ... leans on soundwave 10:31 pm NoodlesAtNight 10:32 pm *Leans back.* [[He apologizes for using your shoulder as a shield earlier. His visor was visualizing his laughter.]] verdigrisprowl 10:34 pm ... It was /what/? I—have I seen it do that before? NoodlesAtNight 10:35 pm [[You haven't. He was going to put on a smiling face at all the accusations about his personal needs but could not keep control over it after doing so.]] verdigrisprowl 10:35 pm ... Can I see? NoodlesAtNight 10:37 pm *Considers.* [[He can replay the content if that is sufficient? Unless you think you'd like to make him laugh that hard.]] verdigrisprowl 10:39 pm *he considers it.* I don't think I can do it on command. *a pause.* ... Although I wish I could. NoodlesAtNight 10:39 pm [[You enjoy it that much, then?]] verdigrisprowl 10:41 pm What? You laughing? *is definitely not looking at Soundwave* ... yes. NoodlesAtNight 10:43 pm *Hmm. That's - it's - he doesn't know what it is, but he likes knowing that. Sweet? Is that sweet? He feels like it counts.* [[Then give him a moment.]] verdigrisprowl 10:44 pm You don't have to laugh on command. That's— It's not— It doesn't count if it's not natural. NoodlesAtNight 10:45 pm [[He won't. He can just repeat the last things it displayed - or would you rather wait until next time?]] *He's confused now, Prowl.* verdigrisprowl 10:45 pm Oh—yes, I'd like to see what you displayed. NoodlesAtNight 10:50 pm *Ah, good. He'd hate to think he pulled it up for nothing.* [[He'll be playing it at high speed this time, of course.]] *It starts out as the smiling face, as he said, but quickly flickers through two more on the way to a more expressive third. That one fuzzes out and disintegrates into wobbling pink and yellow lines illustrating the sound of laughter nobody can actually hear. They eventually get too wild and collapse back into rolling bands of static, right about the time of peak laughter. His visor stopped being able to make sense of the data being fed to it at that point.* verdigrisprowl 10:52 pm *he turns sideways, puts his elbow over the back of the couch, and props his chin in his hand to watch the display.* *he's smiling dumbly by the end.* NoodlesAtNight 10:53 pm *That is the most delightful thing. Look at that smile. He put that there. He might have done something regrettable a year ago, but - surely he can't have done _too_ much that's legitimately awful and still get an expression like that?* verdigrisprowl 10:54 pm *he catches himself pretty quickly, reels his face back in, and looks down—but there's still a hint of it.* Thank you. NoodlesAtNight 10:56 pm *He snaps a shot of it before it fades and pings affection.* [[You're welcome.]] *Pause.* [[...You don't have to hide that if we are alone, you know. There is only him to see it, and he is not inclined to share the image with others.]] verdigrisprowl 10:57 pm Oh. Sorry. It just—feels strange, when I notice it. verdigrisprowl 10:58 pm ... You know how, if you stop and think about your ventilations, suddenly you're not naturally ventilating anymore, you have to consciously control your fans and filters? NoodlesAtNight 10:59 pm [[There is never a need to apologize for that.]] *Soundwave leans over.* [[And he does not think it strange at all. It is - hmm.]] *How to describe it without spooking Prowl with too big a compliment.* [[It is one of the most appealing sights he knows of. But - yes, he does. How is it like that?]] verdigrisprowl 11:01 pm It's consciously controlled, at that point. And once it's consciously controlled, it's—fake. It feels like a fake smile. NoodlesAtNight 11:04 pm [[Ahhh. He sees. Then he will just have to continue being quick to record them, before you notice you're doing it.]] *Huff.* verdigrisprowl 11:06 pm Pff. ... How many do you have, at this point. NoodlesAtNight 11:06 pm [[At least a few dozen.]] NoodlesAtNight 11:07 pm [[And a few laughs.]] NoodlesAtNight 11:08 pm [[He keeps them in the same sector as his collection of singing mechs.]] *Slow bob.* [[Though it occurs to him you have seen /his/ face far less often, let alone smiling.]] verdigrisprowl 11:09 pm True. ... But I can see your shoulders. NoodlesAtNight 11:10 pm [[That is enough for you? You seemed to, ah...]] *After the overload short, this is difficult not to laugh at.* [[You rather liked how he looked with just a standard visor.]] verdigrisprowl 11:11 pm Ah. Yes. I did. Do. verdigrisprowl 11:12 pm *wow there's something very interesting to look at over by the bar.* ... But your shoulders... er. vibrate? when you laugh. Tiny shakes. NoodlesAtNight 11:12 pm *Ravage squints. What are you looking at.* NoodlesAtNight 11:13 pm [[That is true. His shoulders shake, and you...]] *Soundwave laces his fingers over where his mouth would be.* [[...This works better on you. His fingers are not thick enough.]] verdigrisprowl 11:15 pm *don't worry, Ravage. It's probably Sentinel's ugly mug.* NoodlesAtNight 11:15 pm *Oh, that thing. Don't look too long. You might go as blind as your alternate from the hideousness.* verdigrisprowl 11:15 pm Yeah. I guess I do. ... Anyway, it's... *mumble mumble* NoodlesAtNight 11:16 pm *Soundwave turns his head just so, trying to catch that.* [[........Come again?]] verdigrisprowl 11:17 pm s'nice. NoodlesAtNight 11:18 pm *Leans forward. Bump?* [[Thank you.]] verdigrisprowl 11:20 pm *bump, but he's still not looking at Soundwave. mumble.* NoodlesAtNight 11:21 pm *Another mumble?* [[...Would it be easier to let him feel it instead?]] verdigrisprowl 11:23 pm Feel what? ... The smiles? NoodlesAtNight 11:24 pm *Somewhat hesitantly.* [[Whatever you're having trouble saying.]] verdigrisprowl 11:25 pm Oh. It was just "you're welcome." NoodlesAtNight 11:25 pm [[Ah.]] *Nods. Gentle nuzzle against crest.* [[The offer stands for the future, if need be.]] verdigrisprowl 11:26 pm Hmm. Noted. NoodlesAtNight 11:28 pm [[Is there anything else you'd like of him at the moment?]] *Rest, a norn-frostless overload or three, a discussion, a handstand?* verdigrisprowl 11:29 pm *a long, considering look.* ... Yes. NoodlesAtNight 11:29 pm [[At risk of stating the extremely obvious: He is listening.]] verdigrisprowl 11:30 pm It's an open-ended "yes." NoodlesAtNight 11:32 pm [[Oh! Is this the question game?]] *Sits up slightly.* [[Should he be investigating? Or is he to suggest something himself?]] verdigrisprowl 11:33 pm Oh, no, not a game, I don't have something specific in mind. ... So feel free to suggest something. NoodlesAtNight 11:37 pm [[He has an idea, but he isn't sure where you keep what he is thinking about.]] *Pause* [[And we have a discussion to hold before he finds out where they are. That will be very important.]] verdigrisprowl 11:37 pm ... Go on. NoodlesAtNight 11:39 pm [[He has not tested your handcuffs for you. All the - everything that's happened, since he gave them to you. It distracted him.]] [[There appear to be no world-ending threats at the moment.]] verdigrisprowl 11:39 pm Ssso it would appear, yes. ... For the first time in months. NoodlesAtNight 11:41 pm [[He doubts one will appear any time soon. Historically speaking, this is a slow time of year. If you would - if you want to have that discussion, and perhaps perform the test....]] verdigrisprowl 11:41 pm ... Are world-ending threats seasonal? verdigrisprowl 11:42 pm *no, wait, wrong thing to focus on, Prowl* Ahhh. Yes. That sounds like a— I'd like that. Very much. NoodlesAtNight 11:42 pm [[Everyone needs a vacation, as you've told him before.]] *Oh thank goodness. He thought they were going to get carried away examining his records of various greyface shenanigans and eldritch beings.* [[Then, if you'd accompany him to his apartment--?]] NoodlesAtNight 11:43 pm *Over by the bar, Ravage sticks his nose in the air and closes his optics. As if he was eavesdropping.* *...Well, all right. As if he was eavesdropping with bad intentions, to correct himself.* verdigrisprowl 11:44 pm Gladly. NoodlesAtNight 11:44 pm [[Feel free to lead the way.]] *He might as well get used to that now.* verdigrisprowl 11:46 pm *oh. WELL then. Gets to his feet, and offers a hand to Soundwave.* NoodlesAtNight 11:47 pm *Takes it and stands up.* verdigrisprowl 11:48 pm *opens a bridge for them both, and off they go*

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