#whatever party you are in if you can vote then vote

[sackfoo]

If Kamala had won, she wouldn't have helped Palestine out at all but if she had won, we could have still fought tirelessly to try and help Palestine as best we could. With Trump in office, he will more than likely go out of his way to make sure that Palestine is a wasteland with no survivors, and may even go as far as to punish any American caught trying to help Palestine out in any way cause he/his followers are just petty like that. I fully understood the stance that Kamala's stance on Palestine is unacceptable but anyone who is was going to vote for trump was going to show up and vote for him no matter what. Voting for anyone other than Kamala was just going to split non-republican votes more, and of course, not voting at all simply was not an option, not voting for Kamala was basically giving Trump more of a chance to win. Kamala rightfully deserves the criticism she got for this all but again, with her we could have at least kept fighting tooth and nail to ensure that Palestinians would one say be free, it would have been at least sort of manageable. I'd love for there to be a better candidate that we all just banded together and voted for and THEY whipped the country back into shape, abolished all fascism and did everything in their efforts to help Palestine survive, but the unfortunate thing about politics is that while there is the illusion between more options, there only REAL options that have any chance are the people who don't really do that much to fix things, they just keep the status quo upheld because it hasn't caused the complete downfall of humanity yet, and the people who are just straight up fascist super villains who actively try to make the status quo more hostile towards you and the rest of the world and turn the entire country into an unlivable hell hole for profit, at least now that's the case, and the people who support the "Status quo but hell hole" party are always going to vote for them no matter what, because the hell hole seems to be what they want for some god-forsaken reason, and will go as far as to just straight up cheat and rig the whole thing because they are desperate for that hell hole already, so ensuring that the OTHER party wins, while not ideal, is the best we're gonna be able to do for the time being it seems, and we're just gonna have to fight for our lives and look out for each other in the mean time, as well as help anyone who needs it if we can. Anyways, i'm sorry to every Palestinian. I hope that by some miracle, and with whatever help we can offer in the coming years, you're able to somehow hold on and come back from this awful hell you've been put through.

I'm sure many people have already shared this here, but I think it's important that people here on Tumblr need to see this.

"I disagree with Kamala's position on the war in Gaza. How can I vote for her?" by US Senator Bernie Sanders

[itsfreerealestatelol]

Just. Really fast.

I really do try to keep politics away from my social media but...

I'm American. We just voted for the stupidest candidate we could have possibly voted for. If you know that one Cyanide and Happiness skit where the presidential candidates were a perfectly good, reasonable and professional person vs. a literal glutton for humiliation promising to make the country fall into ruin just for shits and giggles? Yeah that's basically this election right now. We fucking voted for a man so cartoonishly bad he is basically a Cyanide and Happiness character.

This country quite literally hates women more than it actually wants to have freedom. That's the bottom line here.

We are literally getting lambasted by OTHER COUNTRIES because we voted for Trump, our allies overseas are quite literally calling us idiots, and frankly? We fucking deserve it. People want to kill themselves over this election, LITERAL CHILDREN are concerned for the future of this country- I recently heard my very, very conservative, God-fearing mother express concern over her own future moving forward over Trump. It wasn't just her either, it was my entire right-wing family as well, they are all so concerned about what's going to happen with Trump in office, so it's not just the fucking liberals or whatever who are terrified of what's about to happen.

I'm scared for the hundreds of thousands of other queer folks out there who didn't get the chance to start living their truest selves before their rights got stripped again. I'm scared for the women who now have to live in constant fear of their own bodies because what if they get taken advantage of and don't want to carry the baby, or what if they miscarry or birth a still born? Congratulations you're going to jail! I'm scared for the POC people in our country who are about to face the worst racism this country has seen since the goddamn slave-years. I'm scared for every single person in this country who isn't a cishet white man because they're about to face the consequences of someone else's actions and have no say in it.

I'm scared for the businesses who are about to face tariffs so dumb they're going to have to restrict their worker's pay. I'm scared for the enviornment because Trump wants to go after the fucking climate crisis for some goddamn reason. I'm scared for my own future, because I want to go through college, I want to be an architect, and I may not get that opportunity over the sex I was born with and didn't get a choice in having.

I agree with the people that are saying shit like "if we can elect a president with 34 felons, then you should be able to get a job with one" because yeah. I think people are seriously forgetting Trump is convicted on 34 felony charges, is a rapist, a literal national security risk, is half a billion dollars in debt, is also convicted of fraud, whose own political party minus the loud part stopped supporting him, and his administration is not returning to the White House because they either hate him or are in jail.

And yet we elected him to be our president.

All of this to say-

Raise fucking hell.

Demand those votes be recounted, fight for your rights, donate to good causes, research what stores and businesses support human decency, do what you think you can do within your own limits to help our country and it's people.

We are not done fighting, we are not going to just wallow in our own defeat. If they get to be loud, then we get to be louder.

As Optimus says, "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings"

-

Edit:

Trump doesn't have the power to do shit right now. That is why I'm saying we fight before he does.

And also,

Our lives are worth more than the price of gas and eggs. Remember that.

[dicapiito]

Not sure why all this buyers remorse is happening now. If y’all didn’t want Trump; you would’ve voted for Kamala Harris but between wanting to stick it to Black People because of ‘ Free Palestine’ and vote 3rd party. Same applies for those people just being extremely stupid and splitting the ticket via the voting booth… I mean..? Three branches of government now lost because you fuckers just would not listen to Black People.

Wanting Biden to do something when he told you to vote for Harris after y’all called for him to step down is some extremely wild shit. “ do something” was supposed to be done November 5th. If you had truly cared about Gaza: you would’ve voted for Harris.

This buyers remorse shit literally days afterwards after being very smug about wanting to “ stick it to the liberals” and now look. Some of you are still being dumb as fuck as reblogging obvious scammer donation posts from people who aren’t even Palestinian so it makes sense you guys think Biden can do whatever he wants when he did what he could. Maybe next time listen to Black People since we saw through the media and their bullshit on how they were covering Biden and Harris. It wasn’t hard to figure out the media loves chaos and yet; y’all still chose to waste your votes voting third party and fucked yourselves and the rest of us.

Of course dark days are ahead and frankly when you’re suffering because of your lack of voting for Harris; I hope you feel the despair you helped usher in because you wanted to “ own the libs” because some podcaster who doesn’t wash his ass told you to do it. Black People said the media wasn’t going to be fair to Harris and y’all still kept tuning in and didn’t give a shit. So why cry now when ya could’ve fixed this November 5th? Enjoy seeing so many overturns in the SCOTUS! Pricks

Black People tried to tell ya

[tomthefanboy]

OP turned off the Reblog settings...

So here's a screenshot before I go off...

This is an excellent perspective. Their growth is not even keeping up with population. This win only happened because people didn't show up. They're not done with the count yet, but the last five percent of precincts are not going to have THAT many more.

[edit with updated results]

10 million people gone.

Some died of COVID or police violence. Had their votes thrown out, burned or were deregistered and disenfranchised... but not that many.

And before you point the finger, in 2024 there were 2,287,966 votes cast for third party presidential candidates but in 2020 there were 2,674,908 votes cast for third party presidential candidates. So it ain't them!

The GOP isn't bigger or stronger than before. There were just 10 million allies who decided that whatever happens wouldn't be their problem.

The GOP's only advantage is unity. In all other matters we are stronger, smarter, and better. We can defeat them with solidarity and equity and that 's why they work so hard to turn us against one another.

[oediex]

You know what, yeah, that bell hooks quotation wasn't appropriate, it doesn't say what the person who added it think it says.

But I don't think it's fair to say that that man who everyone is pissing on somehow claimed we had to "hold his hand" or "coddle" him or whatever. Or even that women had to do it.

He never once even mentioned the word 'woman' in that post. I'm not excluding that that what he was implying - it's very possible! - but what he said was "the left", and let's be clear, this is his understanding of what the left is. I saw people saying that a "self-proclaimed leftist" should understand that his answer was still drenched in patriarchal thinking. But he never once proclaimed he was a leftist. Perhaps he thinks he is, but all he said was that he got "out" of the "alt-right". For all we know, that means he voted for the Democratic Party and we, who are on the left, all know that's not the fucking left.

The question that was posed was how do we keep young men from turning right wing, and he offered an explanation. An explanation! Not an excuse! Again something that a lot of people just assumed.

And yes, it was a flawed explanation, and yes he has some things to learn, and yes it was uncritical and terribly phrased.

But can we recognise that not everyone has the necessary critical thinking skills to completely dig their way out of the overarching ideology that fucking rules our lives? Critical thinking skills aren't something that we are born with. It's something that is learned, something that you have to train. It's a never-ending project. And from what I know of the educational system in the US? That's not where you get it.

Speaking of bell hooks, at least she understands this. In that book (The Will to Change) she writes that "most men never think about patriarchy - what it means, how it is created and sustained." She writes how the patriarchy sees men's violence and the one emotion they're allowed to have, anger, as "natural". Understanding the patriarchy is something that has to be learned, and you either figure it out yourself by reading, but most of us probably had someone in our lives who talked to us about it, taught us about it, and then we might have started reading more about it.

What if you don't have someone like that? What if all you hear is that the things feminists tell you is bad is what was imprinted on you as "natural" to you?

Here's bell hooks:

Yet no one talks about the role patriarchal notions of manhood play in teaching boys that it is their nature to kill, then teaching them that they can do nothing to change this nature—nothing, that is, that will leave their masculinity intact.

Here's what she says of her own brother:

As patriarchal thinking and action claimed him in adolescence, he learned to mask his loving feelings. He entered that space of alienation and antisocial behavior deemed “natural” for adolescent boys.

She clearly pinpoints the moment of these patriarchal ideas taking hold to be in adolescent, and the question that was posed was, what can we do to stop that from happening? I've seen people say that nothing can be done until we change the material conditions that make it so that men systematically have power over women. And yeah, undoubtedly that is a fight we need to have. But is that truly the only way we can keep (some) boys from falling into the grasp of the (alt-)right? Is there no hope in at least reaching them in the meantime?

I've seen a post saying, "omg of course he goes for misandry" and while misandry isn't real in that men are not systematically oppressed, that doesn't mean that there aren't some out there who express hatred or disgust of men. That's not what the left stands for, obviously, but it is not absent. Here are some comments from the notes on some of these reaction posts (and presumably these are all people who consider themselves leftists):

"you should be hunted for sport"

"makes me want to commit homocide"

"kys right now"

"'leftists constantly said i should die' yeah fucking right"

"we need to double male loneliness and I'm not even kidding"

"I HATE MEN AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. THEY HATE US MORE AND THEY HAVE ALL THE POWER TO DO ACTUAL HARM TO US. Misandry is NOT FUCKING REAL but I wish it was"

"we should kill people who don't get it"

Is that hatred of men (non-systematically)? Not all of it, but some of it definitely or possibly qualifies. And it sure does look like some people (who probably think themselves leftists) think this man (or men in general) are the "scum of the earth" and that they want him/them dead. How else do you interpret some of these phrases?

Now imagine that this is something that you encounter online, and with the help of the stranglehold of the patriarchy, whispers of right wing ideology, confirmation bias, and negativity bias? I can imagine you might end up concluding they "hate you for your immutable traits" (remember patriarchy teaches boys that violence and anger is natural to them) and that they "blame you for everything that's wrong in the world".

Is that the right conclusion? No. But as much as being able to use reason is part of being human, so is not being immune to ideology and propaganda. We wouldn't fucking be where we are right now if that wasn't the case.

How do we teach boys that anger and violence aren't "immutable traits"? How do we educate them about the power of the patriarchy? Well, where does it have to come from if not from the fucking left?

Does it have to be you? No. Does it have to be women? Also no. It's probably good if it's men, and especially men who themselves walked with the right at some point (if someone has already been pulled into the right, rather than catching them before).

It can be a woman though, if there's someone who wants to do it. I don't mind doing it if someone wants to talk about it. Will I be nice? No, I won't hold back and I will tell them if what they're saying is wrong. Will I coddle them? Fuck no. Will I keep trying if someone clearly isn't listening? No. Will I be compassionate? Yeah, I think I will.

Because compassion is really important when you're trying to keep people from falling into the far-right, or even if you're trying to get them out of it (which again, isn't what we were talking about in the first place).

Here's Pete Simi, professor of Sociology, talking about Life After Hate, an American non-profit that tries to help people leave the far-right:

The organization was started by former hate group members who have been doing a lot of outreach in terms of providing testimonials and trainings to schools and law enforcement and other community groups across the country. The focus of their message is the importance of using compassion to inform prevention and intervention efforts and aftercare for individuals who want to change their lives but may need various types of support. I think LAH is a very promising development and I hope it will continue to find the resources that it needs to expand the services it provides.

Being compassionate doesn't mean coddling. It doesn't mean holding their hands and it doesn't even mean being nice to them. It doesn't exclude holding people accountable for their views. It does require patience, though. And I understand that if someone is holding the belief that you are not allowed to exist, that isn't something you can do. And that's fine. It doesn't have to be you.

But somebody has to do it, and it has to be someone on the left.

Now none of that means that the suffering of men under patriarchy, and the fact that this has to be addressed loud and clear, are more important than the suffering that women, and especially women whose oppression intersects with other levels of oppression. I've seen some tags on reaction posts that stated "omg of course centring men in discussions of gender" - but the post was about men. That was the whole starting point!

Because men do suffer under the patriarchy. And it's pushing them to the right, towards misogyny and racism, unless they develop the necessary critical thinking skills to understand their own suffering. And you know who thinks so too? bell hooks.

Often men, to speak the pain, first turn to the women in their lives and are refused a hearing. In many ways women have bought into the patriarchal masculine mystique. Asked to witness a male expressing feelings, to listen to those feelings and respond, they may simply turn away.

Since men have yet to organize a feminist men’s movement that would proclaim the rights of men to emotional awareness and expression, we will not know how many men have indeed tried to express feelings, only to have the women in their lives tune out or be turned off.

It is a form of abuse that this culture continues to deny. Boys socialized to become patriarchs are being abused. As victims of child abuse via socialization in the direction of the patriarchal ideal, boys learn that they are unlovable.

The patriarchal model that tells men that they must be in control at all times is at odds with cultivating the capacity to be responsible, which requires knowing when to control and when to surrender and let go. Responsible men are capable of self-criticism. If more men were doing the work of self-critique, then they would not be wounded, hurt, or chagrined when critiqued by others, especially women with whom they are intimate. Engaging in self-critique empowers responsible males to admit mistakes. When they have wronged others, they are willing to acknowledge wrongdoing and make amends. When others have wronged them, they are able to forgive. The ability to be forgiving is part of letting go of perfectionism and accepting vulnerability. At the same time, constructive criticism works only when it is linked to a process of affirmation. Giving affirmation is an act of emotional care. Wounded men are not often able to say anything positive. They are the grump-and-groan guys; cloaked in cynicism, they stand at an emotional distance from themselves and others. Affirmation brings us closer together. It is the highest realization of compassion and empathy with others. One of the negative aspects of antimale feminist critiques of masculinity was the absence of any affirmation of that which is positive and potentially positive in male being. When individuals, including myself, wrote about the necessity of affirming men and identifying them as comrades in struggle, we were often labeled male-identified. The women who attacked us did not understand that it was possible to critique patriarchy without hating men. Indeed, recognizing all the ways that males have been victimized by patriarchy (even though they received rewards) was a way of including men in feminist movement, welcoming their presence and honoring their contribution.

“in order to create loving males we need to love males” means teach boys that they can be themselves without being less of a man. it means being encouraging and nurturing of their emotions so they don’t become cold and hateful. it means showing boys, early in their lives, that they have value outside of what our society deems proper masculinity. what it doesn’t mean is that it’s our job to handhold men who see women as walking sex toys through the concept of empathy, and maybe if we’re really really nice to them and don’t say things that hurt their feelings they’ll stop killing us for saying no

[nianeyna]

not going to reblog the post that prompted this because long and blah blah who cares but not voting in elections is the ultimate betrayal of the tireless activists throughout long ages of history who gave their fucking LIVES to allow you to freely vote in democratic elections and if you HAVE the hard-won right to vote and you don't exercise it through your own free choice and not because you have been blocked from doing it for some reason you should feel ashamed. you should feel bad. and if you HAVE been blocked from doing it you should RAISE HELL.

vote. I don't even care what you vote for tbh. I mean I guess I do on a personal level but that's NOT the point of this post. CAST YOUR FUCKING VOTE ON EVERY BALLOT YOU ARE ELIGIBLE TO VOTE IN. DO IT. EVEN IF I HATE YOU PERSONALLY FUCKING VOTE!!

[belliesandburps]

Interactive - Favorite Burp Scenario

I need something to take my mind off the fact that we are home to the dumbest, most bigoted fucking assholes on this planet, and I feel like a lot of you probably feel the same way right now. So, how about another interactive game? Send me character requests via my askbox here and I will respond with my favorite burp scenario to imagine for them. (Note, ideally, keep it to characters I know or that you think I may know)

[dykedvonte]

I dislike takes that Danse would be just as conservative in modernized aus when it's clearly shown his staunch views of things come from his time in the Brotherhood and his deep-rooted desire to belong to something with a greater purpose.

Not to mention lines that show much more open-mindedness that get overlooked for his harsher sentiments when you first meet him. Like the oppurtunity to be a part of something is why Danse fell so far into Brotherhood dogma and it doesn't negate the offense things he does but I feel like it's just lazy to be like "hmmm he'd def be racist" just so it aligns to his BoS beliefs.

[goopgirlie813]

As I said in a post I made last week; watch these fuckers like a hawk. Check the news & gov websites every day that you possibly can and share whatever important things you find. Not just the federal government either; watch the republicans in your state and local governments. Most people MASSIVELY underestimate the power that those smaller offices have.

And remember that we have a midterm election in 2026. Flip congress and other seats back to blue and they're going to have a significantly harder time achieving anything. I promise you that every single seat on the ticket is important so vote all the way down when the time comes.

Additionally, if you can it would probably be a good idea to get involved with (or at least check in on) your local or state democratic party in order to help promote important campaigns. Keep up with who intends to run and what they need to win.

Oh and if you can, absolutely try to debunk any misinformation that Trump and those like him try to spread. Especially if it is currently being used as the basis of a campaign for something. Both posting those debunks online and discussing them with people in your life can help reduce the influence and spread of this misinformation at least a little bit. Think about it this way; if 5% of the people who voted for Harris each persuaded only 1 person each to vote democrat in the next presidential election, the democrat candidate would beat the number Trump got this year. A small percent of people can completely change the way massive elections play out.

Everything you do counts, I promise. Take action now and we have a chance to make it through mostly unscathed.

Project 2025 ain't gonna roll out all at once. So what we're gonna wanna do is make passing each individual part of it as difficult as possible, so there's less to undo once we finally get this country back on the rails.

[flying-cat]

What is writing random bullshit on your ballot doing to save Palestinians. You are literally doing nothing except handing another vote to Trump who cannot be reasoned with. He is a selfish, senile fuck. You're fucking over all the women and minorities in your own country to do LITERALLY NOTHING for Palestine because what you're doing for them isn't worth the dry dogshit stuck to someone's shoe. You want to help Palestine? Keep donating, buying eSIMs and spreading awareness. Refusing to vote, voting third party knowing it won't work as a worthless form of protest, or incorrectly voting won't do anything except hurt the vulnerable people in your own country.

[ruby-red-inky-blue]

I know this is an inconsequential thought from an outsider, but I really do think a LOT of the radicalisation in politics, especially this latest US election, could be softened if they recognised a key feature of the democratic election process: your vote should be SECRET. This means nobody gets to demand to know who you voted for legally, but I mean on a cultural level. It’s fucked up that people think of voting as taking a public morality stance, or a part of their personality. Like, actually engaging in politics as a party member is another thing, but your vote?? That’s between you and the ballot, and absolutely nobody else. Watching people be like “I would be ashamed to tell my loved ones that I voted for Harris because she didn’t oppose the war in Gaza” or “who would I be if I didn’t vote Republican/Democratic” like… that should not be a factor in your vote. You should pick what you think is best for your country/whatever group is casting the vote rn, and not think about how it makes you look to your peers. Because that shit is secret. And peer pressuring everyone into loudly proclaiming allegiance introduces a dynamic into that decision that makes everything worse.

[tammog]

Idk maybe the dems should have done literally anything to make people want to vote for them.

If they are thus disappointed in the populace, why don't they dissolve it and elect a new one? That's how democracy works right? A party can say they want to do whatever they want, and if they included genocide and xenophobia and in general just being a slightly watered down version of the nazi party they are running against, and the populace is not motivated to vote for them because of that, they can just choose a new populace and never have to examine their own policies?

Because that is how you blue maga idiots talk about it every single time. Blaming the entirety of the US populace for the democrats throwing the easiest election ever doing the worst politics they have ever done, doing everything to lose against Trump.

Just so people know, in 2020 Trump got 74 million votes. He currently has 72 million. Biden got 81 million in 2020, Kamala has 67 million. There were not more people who voted for Trump, he didn’t have a crazy turn out this year. 15 million people who voted in 2020 didn’t vote this year. 15 million people abstained from voting. This, everything that happens next, is their fault.

[sodrippy]

trump voter on the news saying 'now that we have a convicted felon as the president the hope is he will put prisoners' rights at the forefront' sorry to be a cunt but are you a fucking moron or what

[13lizardsinatrenchcoat]

.

[dukeofankh]

I mean, nothing I said was suggesting that nothing can or should be done. I have a couple things I can think of but people are already rightly pointing out that my experience, like all experiences, isnt universal. Calling out a shallow take isn't something I'm doing because I'm so so wise and I know how to fix everything.

I have heard the take that part of the fix for this will probably be a lot more white men with podcasts, and that is almost definitely *part* of the fix. It is legitimately difficult for young men to find content about random ass basic hobbies that isn't being served to them by low-key fascists. That needs to change. When talking with other progressive men, something that came up a lot was after school programs, especially ones that bring boys in more contact with their communities and expose them to different kinds of people in positive ways. Hate breeds in ignorance and isolation.

You already seem very anti-terf, which is great. That is also part of it. I don't honestly think that women are the cause of this problem but like, in terms of fixing this and convincing men that feminists are on their side, yeah, some small part of it is probably looking at the state of feminism currently and recognizing that it has devolved in many very public online spaces into reactionary gender essentialism and that radical feminism takes up a lot more air than anyone would like to pretend it does. "Sure I wholeheartedly reblogged something that claimed that any man who seems decent is just trying to let women's guards down to make it easier to assault them, something all men are trying to do to women at all times, but that's just venting. Ignore that broadside that me and my friends just unloaded on you and everyone who looks anything like you, if you think that your hurt feelings about that matter, that's on you for not recognizing that our pain justifies saying literally whatever we want" (to call up a random example) is certainly a standard that it is possible to enforce in some more isolated corners of the internet, but there has been a serious breakdown between the personal and the public, which is hell for messaging as a movement. This is no longer drinks with friends, this stuff gets broadcast worldwide to men who are trying to get a sense of what feminism is about. At some level, what is cathartic to say will have to give way to what is tactically wise to announce. The only men who will willingly share space with that sentiment if it is core to this movement are either convinced that they are personally exempt from examining their own privilege, which is its own problem, or men who agree wholeheartedly that all men are evil, them included, and are trying to atone. I've interacted plenty with both in male feminist spaces. It's not a winning team. I am aware how hard that will be. 4B type political lesbianism/lesbian separatism seems to be having a moment (at least as a meme) right now as people process their grief in this moment. That's understandable. But it's not wise.

Considering this is happening in the wake of the US election, and I'm saying this as a Canadian, it's also worth gently and precisely noting that even if the harm is the same, someone who voted for trump didn't necessarily do it because they despise women. If we're just looking at the raw numbers and saying "we're doomed", that's probably not helpful or, luckily, accurate. The project of changing the cultural narrative is huge and depressingly long. The rise of reactionary right wing populism when a society starts failing its young people economically isn't. That is a different, and much easier project. If you don't want people to vote for right wing populism, you need to give them left wing populism, and infiltrating the democratic party and pulling all the same tricks the right did but towards economic policy that will provide the next generation of men with the opportunity to own homes and pull their weight supporting families will do a hell of a lot more in a much shorter time than systematically changing each and every man's heart, especially considering a lot of the people who voted for trump weren't men. This project will outlast us, but MAGA doesn't have to.

If your vision for the deradicalization of right-wing men begins and ends with "other men telling them that that's gross and to stop it" then I'm sorry, you do not understand how masculinity works.

"Men who hold patriarchal status" and "men who are feminists" are two groups who overlap less than you want them to. I'm sorry. That's not solely because men are so happy with patriarchal status that they don't want to risk it by policing misogyny/queerphobia/racism, It's because being misogynistic, queerphobic, and racist, end expressing other forms of toxic masculinity(and often abusively so) are part of how people establish and maintain patriarchal status. The men who have the ability to stop this via nothing but peer pressure are the very people who are doing it. That's by design. And engaging in feminist intervention is, in and of itself, usually the abrupt end of that status and its associated power to persuade misogynistic men.

Like, I have worked in blue collar jobs as a notably queer person. It was pretty much a constant deluge of verbal abuse. In my experience, most blue collar work environments are exploitative, abusive, and bigoted, and very gleefully so. On the occasions I have spoken up about someone saying something that was super fucking out of line (asking me which of the girls walking by was hottest. We were installing a portable classroom at a middle school), believe it or not, they completely failed to be shamed! Because nobody else on the crew gave a fuck. *I* was the weird one. They ghosted me. A full blown company ghosted me. I suddenly didn't have a job anymore because they just straightforwardly stopped telling me where the next job site was.

Like, this doesn't mean that it's your job to do it, but this vision you have of these big groups of men where everyone is on the fence and there is precisely one shit stirrer who can be shut down by a brave feminist man who can single handedly set the example for all these other guys...you are high. You are describing an "everybody clapped" level absurd scenario. Most of these truly virulent misogynistic guys either have zero friends, because, you know, our society is atomized to fuck, or they are in a group where the feminist guy is actually the weirdo who can be shut down and ostracized much, much easier than the misogynists, because there is no such thing as a man misogynists respect who stands up for women.

You might be saying "well, we're talking about longstanding personal relationships, actually. Like, they need to have to want to spend time with you and then, as a side effect, you can mind control them out of being a threat to us."

Problem with that being:

1: Many feminist men also have no friends, see the atomized society above.

2: Feminist men already stopped hanging out with men who make rape jokes because why the fuck would we want to spend time with them.

3: That isn't just because we respect women so hard. We are in many cases talking about men who are also deeply queerphobic, heirarchical, violent and abusive to other men. What initially drew me to feminism and women was a lack of heirarchical squabbling and constant bullying, and the ability to be openly queer. A lot of men who came to feminism did so because they knew that the patriarchy was not a place they would find success or acceptance. These are not the men who are gonna be able to change right wing minds.

4. Men do not view themselves as a monolith. There is no universal brotherhood of men. The actual meaning of the term "Fragile masculinity" is that men are constantly expected to prove that they are deserving of the status of being a member of their own gender. There are large swathes of men--including most of the men who you'd look to as examples of good, feminist men who you want to undertake this project--who are considered failed men, sissies, f****ts, soyboys, ect. They are. Not. Going. To. Convince. These. Men. Of. Jack. Shit. Much less successfully *shame* them. Jesus.

I know all of this sucks. I know it would be cool to be able to just point at a group and have them be responsible for the work. But nah. It's gonna have to be a societal project, one that will probably outlast all of us. Sorry. The thing you want these men to do is, absolutely, the morally correct thing to do. But presuming that it would be effective is, and once again I am so sorry about this, just ignorance of how these social groups function.

[bugsbenefit]

first estimated results from the election today are coming in and i'm gonna be so fr right now it's so fucking overrrrr. this is so grim jesus fucking christ