#what was the mystery of razikale?

[nerdsandqueens]

Caption: "Early sketches of Ghilan'nain and her experiments emerging from the sea."

[felassan]

Do we know which archdemons belonged to which evanuris besides the two in veilguard?

And do we know if killing the archdemons is what killed the gods in their prisons...?

hello! ◕‿◕ (rest of post under cut due to length and spoilers)

Bellara and Neve speculate in-game on the topic of the first question in this codex entry:

Codex Entry: Elven Gods and Tevinter Gods

"Elven Gods and Tevinter Gods A note in Bellara's handwriting: Nine elven gods, seven Tevinter gods. Lines up, because Mythal was murdered before Arlathan's destruction and Fen'Harel is... Fen'Harel. We're pretty sure about: - Elgar'nan (day, night, the sun, tyranny, lordship, fatherhood, vengeance—he just wants all the words, doesn't he?) = Lusacan, Dragon of Night - Ghilan'nain (halla, navigation, monsters) = Razikale, Dragon of Mystery - Sylaise (fire, the hearth, home) = Toth, Dragon of Fire - June (craft, invention) = Urthemiel, Dragon of Beauty We're still arguing about: - Dirthamen (secrets) = Dumat, Dragon of Silence (secrets, silence... makes sense?) - Falon'Din (death) = Zazikel, Dragon of Chaos (Death causes chaos? Chaos causes death?) - Andruil (the hunt) = Andoral, Dragon of Slaves ("Andruil" and "Andoral" sound alike?) Added in Neve's handwriting: If it helps, Dumat liked toads. Did Dirthamen?"

On the Archdemons and the rest of the Evanuris, the devs said this in the recent Reddit AMA:

Q: “Can we get confirmation on what happened to the other Evanuris? Will we get any more lore? Shame we didn’t hear a whole lot about them besides essentially being behind the previous Blights.” John Epler: “We haven’t been SUPER specific about this, but at best the other Evanuris are a shadow of their former selves, and at worst they’re dead. The death of their Archdemons, particularly when they were still trapped in the Fade, caused enough magical feedback that it broke their minds and bodies. A couple may have survived as shells, but they aren’t in the same state as Ghilan'nain and Elgar'nan.” --- John: “[...] The story of the Evanuris is done - the gods are dead (or imprisoned)”

[compilation post]

and this in an interview with IGN:

"Can you tell us about the fate of the other elven gods like Sylaise and June? Are these gods now mortal in the Fade after the defeat of their Archdemons, or were they weakened enough to die in their prison? Epler: Yeah, I mean, so we haven’t been super explicit about what happens when the gods die. In my mind, they’re either dead or they’re the closest thing to it. When a Warden kills an Archdemon, in Origins and DA2 and DAI, before the Gods are out in the world, there is part of that elven god’s spirit that is bound to that dragon. It finds the nearest source of Blight. Now, if it’s a darkspawn, a darkspawn has a direct connection to the Blight. There’s enough energy there for it to rebuild a body, rebuild itself as an Archdemon. When it goes into a Warden, that connection is very different and what ends up happening is essentially the fragment of the God spirit and the fragment of the Warden annihilate each other. So nothing to go back to the god. So if they’re there, they’re a shadow of their former self. But obviously when Elgar'nan and Ghilan'nain come out, there’s not that distance. There’s not that need to use the Blight as essentially an in-between medium and they can just regain that fragment of their soul. They’re now mortal, but they’re just as powerful as they were before. Busche: And this is part of a theme within The Veilguard. We’re tackling some pretty big subject matter, some of the largest outstanding mysteries within Dragon Age lore. So we want to tie up some of those loose ends, give really satisfying answers, but we also want to leave the door open just a little bit. So questions like that, what happens to the rest of the gods? Those are themes that we want to be able to explore, but also be able to advance the franchise."

[source]

[echthr0s]

WAIT, I FORGOT ABOUT THE WORST THING which is that Anansi Surana is responsible for What Happened at Kinloch Hold. "What happened at Kinloch Hold?" you ask? well, you see, Anansi came into his power during his Harrowing and the ensuing power surge annihilated his Circle in 2 seconds flat :)

sometimes I think about what it must have been like for anyone Chantry-affiliated to find out that the guy who is simultaneously saving the world and fucking it up in new Maker-unapproved ways is a Chasind hedge witch slash necrodancer that looks like *see last reblog*. ultimate prissy sour-lemon expression on every face every time he strolls into town (especially if it's an Orlesian town) and they can't do shit about it unless they want to become mushroom food as in that one Hannibal episode specifically

[dalishious]

the warrior gameplay trailer states that ghilan’nain’s dragon is an archdemon. do you think that means razikale and lusacan are hers and elgar’nan’s dragons in the same way that the red lyrium dragon is corypheus’? those two being the dragons of night and mystery would fit ghilan’nain and elgar‘nan.

My head is SPINNING SO FAST. BioWare just casually dropping a bomb like that makes me wonder what the hell they also have in store, that they don't even consider that to be a big enough deal to hide?

But to respond to your theory: Very well could be... //thinking

[thedinanshiral]

Evanuris Who's who

This is just my personal and very intuitive interpretation of the Evanuris signature symbols. I base my take on recent art, general Evanuris lore and previous depictions of them, primarily mosaics from the Temple of Mythal in DAI. I know others have done this with nicer graphics but everything here is homemade and made with love -on my phone- so please bear with me..

First, from the trailer we got the first depiction of all these Evanuris symbols

Andruil and Ghilan'nain are explained here.

Elgar'nan: it's front and center, as he's the top authority among them. Also, shows up in the trailer mural, implied to be one of the future enemies in the story and he's elvhen God of Vengeance so i'd say if anyone's gonna show up to get even with Solas that'd be him.

June and Sylaise: Possibly the Evanuris we know the least about, and if Solas didn't comment on them at the Temple of Mythal in DAI i'd say they were ok-ish? Either siblings or married (or both, because mythology). Most people think the sun-like one is Elgar'nan as he's the sun in the elvhen pantheon but Sylaise is the Hearthkeeper and nothing else remotely references fire or heat. Her mosaic at the Temple of Mythal shows her wearing a crown of leafs, of which this "sun" could easily be a stylized version. As for June, God of the Craft, all i have is ..it looks like a helmet.

Falon'din and Dirthamen: as Guide of the dead Falon'din is represented in the mosaics as holding a shepard's staff so i assigned him the symbol closest to a staff. As for Dirthamen, as Keeper of Secrets he's depicted in mosaics covering his mouth with both hands. On this first picture, simple 2D, neither headpiece can be fully appreciated, but one could say the "staff" one fits in the empty space of the other one, and these two were said to be inseparable, twin souls, with a bond that trascended any labels, shadow and reflection of one another.

Now, onto the vinyl covers. The first one here is Arlathan pre-disaster. We see the city with all its spires watched over by a huge dragon that for completion's sake i assigned as Mythal; while she lived, the world was in order, more or less. There's also a mysterious tiny figure below, hooded and holding a staff that kinda looks like Elgar'nan's symbol; at first i thought it could be Fen'harel but it actually fits as Elgar'nan or one of his people, because it's still possible he's responsible for her death.

And now the best part, the alternative cover presents a much darker scenario, Arlathan falling. With the city crumbling down, a different, visibly aggressive/hostile dragon watching over it with horns that, yet again, resemble Elgar'nan's symbol, and hanging from the edge of its wings we see heads, each wearing an Evanuris headpiece. The mysterious hooded figure is gone here, the floating ground it stood on already gone.

Once i put the names i noticed this placement, where the lovers are across each other, and the twins are directly facing each other (as you would a mirror); i found it a bit curious because this only works if we go with my assigned correspondences.

Speaking of the twins, let's check this concept art for a bit. It depicts the party of heroes fighting off drakspawn while two dragons say hi in the background. But is it really two dragons? I see two heads ..but also only two wings. Could it be a double headed dragon?? Concidentally two Archdemons remain, and people have speculated what better way to fuck up Thedas than with two Blights at once? On top of Solas taking down the Veil and reshaping the fabric of reality, again. No such thing as a boring day in Thedas.

Important to note is the remaining Archdemons correspond to the Old Gods Razikale the dragon of Mystery, and Lusacan, dragon of Night. If you adhere to the theory that says the tevinter Old Gods are actually the Evanuris -i've wrote on this extensively-, one possibility is Razikale corresponds with Dirthamen (dragon of mystery? keeper of secrets? potato potahto, same thing) while Lusacan corresponds with Falon'din (dragon of night? guide of the dead? darkness all around). If we've been right about these equivalences then this piece of art would be showing indeed a two-headed dragon, the Twins. Their bond so strong, so transcendental, so inseparable they return to the world as one, for a recharged Blight.

The only tiny detail against this is that Razikale is referred to as a she, whereas the twins are presumed to be male, however i don't let this take from my fun because ancient elves were very particular and their perception of sex and gender must have been like nothing we can think of today.

[yolatirra]

Okay, with all the Game Informer information I'm going to take a stab at some speculation for where the story is going & what's going to happen.

This turned out to be... a very long post.

---The Evanuris---

First of all, I was right that the male figure is Elgar'nan! Not that it was an uncommon theory, but I still haven't seen anyone else pointing out that his symbol is an eclipse, so I'm still running with my Elgar'nan - God of Darkness/Eclipses theory. But I'm still not sure exactly what to say about it other than that.

We can now make a pretty solid guess that the final voice in the Thedas Calls teaser trailer is Elgar'nan. His dialogue suggests that he's trying conquer the world, which makes sense. He was the leader of the elven pantheon, and likely kind of a tyrant. Ghilan'nain, on the other hand, I suspect cares more about doing her weird experimental stuff than ruling the world. I suspect each one will be causing different problems for us.

-Ghilan'nain-

Ghilan'nain might be attacking places and/or sending monsters to attack for her, in order to collect material for her experiments, meaning people, animals, lyrium, red lyrium, and other stuff. She may have particular interest in Seheron, Par Vollen, and Rivain, because of the Qunari presence in those places. There's also the tentacle monster we see over Rivain in the Thedas Calls trailer, and the voice associated with Rivain saying "Glory to the risen gods, they come to deliver this world".

I've always suspected she has some connection to the Qunari, because they seem to be a created race, and she's the most likely candidate for having created them. If a Tevinter magister was responsible for creating the Qunari, it may have been the Augur of Mystery, aka the high priest of Razikale, who is almost certainly either Ghilan'nain herself or a dragon who is closely connected to her.

There are also the thaigs. In Horror of Hormak, we learn that there were 12 mountains that (probably) Ghilan'nain sent elven prisoners to. There were also 12 great Dwarven thaigs. With the creepy lyrium pool in Hormak destroyed, that leaves the 3 currently inhabited thaigs, Orzammar, Kal-Sharok, and Kal-Hirol (which was only recently reclaimed). Of these, Kal-Sharok I think is the most likely for us to visit, since it's furthest north and we've heard of vague weird stuff happening there. So I suspect Ghilan'nain will be up to some shit over there.

I'm also wondering now if the lyrium pools are directly powered by titans in some way, which would explain why they are seemingly in the same places as the thaigs. Or maybe they just need to be built near titans for better access to lyrium.

There's also the Scaled Ones. If they end up being relevant, they're probably connected to Ghilan'nain.

-Elgar'nan-

I have fewer guesses about Elgar'nan, but I expect he'll go after Tevinter. He might kill the Archon or the Black Divine, or both. I could see him convincing many magisters to follow him, just by offering them power. The Venatori in particular would probably be happy to follow Elgar'nan, since they're already familiar with red lyrium, and Elgar'nan probably knows how to use red lyrium far more effectively than anyone else in Thedas. I wouldn't be surprised if Elgar'nan fully takes control of Tevinter at some point in the game.

---Locations & Companions---

-Seheron & Par Vollen-

We don't have any confirmation or even strong hints that we'll be visiting these places, but it wouldn't surprise me if we do. We should at least be learning a lot more about them. I think with Ghilan'nain in the picture, we may even learn where the Qunari actually came from, or at least get some clearer hints about it. It would be cool to finally learn what the Fog Warriors are.

We've been hearing about the Qunari less than I expected in recent news, but they may just be choosing to focus on Solas and the Evanuris for now.

-Rivain-

Taash is probably from Rivain, going by her being a Lord of Fortune and her location in the reveal trailer, so that's one connection. There's also the "glory to the risen gods" voice from the Thedas Calls teaser, which is probably either a Qunari leader or a Rivaini spiritual leader of some kind. Or, if the Lords of Fortune have a leader, that's another option.

-Antiva-

The "the crows rule Antiva" voice from the Thedas Calls teaser is probably a leader of the Crows. I'm going to guess this is Caterina Dellamorte, grandmother of Lucanis. It would make sense that we have some connection to her through Lucanis. Either he gets us access to Caterina, or Lucanis joins us because we talk to Caterina. That said, the world seems to think Lucanis is dead according to "The Wake", and something weird is going on with him, with all the weird purple eyes and wings symbolism, so who knows.

-The Anderfells/Weishaupt-

I'd love to see more of the Anderfells besides Weishaupt, but I'm guessing Weishaupt will be a very important location in this game. I suspect the blighted forest we see Davrin in in the reveal trailer is either south-east of Weishaupt in the foothills of the Hunterhorn mountains, or north in the Donarks.

Really hoping we go to the shore of the Volca Sea at some point, but there's no particular evidence for that.

I think Weishaupt is going to be pretty much destroyed in this game, and we may visit it more than once.

-Nevarra-

The Necropolis is going to be important somehow, but I can't even guess at how. Maybe there's some old artifact buried in its depths and we have to find it? Maybe there's a particular spirit living down there we need to talk to? Maybe, like much of Thedas, the Necropolis is actually Old As Fuck and there's elven stuff at the bottom.

Emmrich, of course, will be our guide.

-The South-

I doubt we'll be going anywhere we've been before. Skyhold seems to have gotten its farewell in Callback, so as much as I'd love to see it updated in pretty graphics, I don't think we'll go there. Though maybe we could see it in a flashback, and find out why it's called Tarasyl'an Te'las. I could also see a quick visit to Val Royeux to talk to the Divine or whoever is on the throne, but I think it's more likely they'd come to us in the north or we'll just talk to them via letters or through the Inquisitor.

-Tevinter-

Okay, I think there are going to be some BIG changes to Tevinter by the end of this game. I expect Elgar'nan to kill most of its existing leadership, so by the time we take down Elgar'nan, Tevinter will need a completely new government.

I think the Tevinter-Qunari war will be resolved in the first half of the game, because both sides are going to be taken over or destroyed by the Evanuris. "Peace" via conquering.

---Plot---

-Prologue Predictions-

Here's my guess for "where the hell is Varric when Rook & the others are in the fade?"

While I, like most people, agree that Varric's death has been HEAVILLY foreshadowed, I don't think he dies this early on in the game. The devs and the community council members keep saying he's a major character, and I don't think they would keep emphasizing that if he dies a few hours into the game. At least a couple community council people have even said they do not know Varric's fate, and they've played a good bit further than the Game Informer article described. I do, however, think Varric will die at some point in the game, either at the midpoint or sometime during the second half. I doubt all the foreshadowing is purely a red herring.

I also think a part of the ritual site scene was cut out of the gameplay trailer. After Solas blows away the statue, I think Varric tries to take the dagger away from him while he's distracted, and probably succeeds. Either Varric has the dagger, or he gets it away from Solas and it falls off the platform (which I think is more likely). He then falls down the stairs, which is why we maybe see him in the background in that one shot. I doubt Solas attacked him or hurt him intentionally, but he may have used magic to pin him in place, which would explain the green glow & why the blurry figure seems to try to get up, but can't.

What I'm not sure about is how Rook's blood gets mixed in with the ritual. Maybe Rook helps Varric get the blade away from Solas, and ends up getting cut by it? Maybe there's some kind of fight between Solas and the Evanuris and Rook gets caught in the middle?

Moving on past the gameplay trailer, I don't think Varric gets sucked into the fade with the others. Either he manages to hide from Ghilan'nain and Elgar'nan, or they dismiss his presence as unworthy of their attention and leave without hurting him. A few things could happen after that.

Varric goes back through the eluvian and arrives back in Tevinter as expected. He goes to the Inquisitor or to Dorian, seeking help from old friends because he has no idea what happened to Rook, Neve, Harding, and Solas.

Varric goes back through the eluvian, but it takes him somewhere else, because it's not working right with Solas stuck in the fade. From there Varric still finds his way back to the Inquisitor or Dorian, or he ends up lost somewhere.

Varric gets picked up by other Veil Jumpers, and we meet up with him soon after the quest with Bellara. This could also happen if he tries going through the eluvian and it doesn't work.

If Varric ends up lost somewhere but isn't picked up by the Veil Jumpers, I think he'll end up back with the Inquisitor or Dorian regardless. I doubt we'll spend multiple missions trailing after Varric.

While the idea of Varric getting stuck in the fade with Solas is funny, I doubt it would actually happen. One, I don't know if anyone but an Evanuris could survive the fade prison Solas has created. Two, it seems like a waste of Varric as a character. Presumably he wouldn't be able to communicate with Rook the way Solas can, so he'd just be absent from the story until he and Solas are freed. That doesn't line up with him being a "major character".

Could the Evanuris capture him? I guess, but... why? These are elven gods, and we know the ancient elves didn't really see the dwarves as people ("witless, soulless"). What information would they expect to get from him? They likely wouldn't consider using him as a bargaining tool either. They'd be more likely to kill him than capture him, but even that I think is unlikely. I think they'd just ignore him, or not even notice him.

When Rook leaves the Lighthouse and ends up meeting Bellara, they're trying to get back to the ritual site. Why would it be important to return there? Two reasons. One, figure out where Varric is and if he's dead or not, and two, retrieve the ritual dagger. I doubt it ended up in the fade with Rook, because that would be way too easy. We'll have to search for it. That'll be the first big goal of the game.

If we meet up with Varric after the quest with Bellara, either he has the dagger or he doesn't. If he does, cool, we have it now. If he doesn't, we have to keep looking for it. I suspect he wouldn't have it.

From here, Bellara acts as a guide to get us back to the ritual site. The dagger is likely still here, and I suspect that recovering it will allow us to travel through the eluvians accurately. It's possible we'll have to keep searching for the dagger, but if I'm right about it acting as something like a key for the eluvians, we'll probably have access to it pretty early.

At this point, if we haven't met up with Varric yet, we'll probably seek him out. I would assume Harding knows how to get in touch with him and/or the Inquisitor, so this may be where the Inquisitor gets introduced. It seems a little early to introduce the Inquisitor, but maybe the pacing of it works out. Besides, I don't think Rook at this point would feel they have the authority to start giving orders or leading people on missions. They aren't a leader yet, so they're going to seek out leadership.

I kind of doubt we'll have a full dual-protagonist thing with Rook and the Inquisitor, but the Inquisitor may be playable for specific story sequences. The possible specializations for the Inquisitor are mostly not present in this game, so trying to transfer their abilities and playstyle to Veilguard wouldn't make much sense. They could have a very simplified playstyle in comparison to Rook, but I think it's more likely the Inquisitor just won't be playable in combat. They could join the party as a guest though, like Varric does in the gameplay trailer.

So, we might meet with Varric and/or the Inquisitor here, and this might be where our group gets the Veilguard name. Together we decide on our next mission.

With Bellara, Neve, and Harding in the party, we need a warrior, meaning we'll probably go to Rivain or Weishaupt next. I think, considering that darkspawn showed up in the Arlathan Forest during Bellara's intro mission, Weishaupt is more likely. Either we hear of something going on there, or we choose to seek out the wardens for help/advice/information.

It's also possible we meet Davrin somewhere else and go to Weishaupt later on, but if so I can't really predict where. Maybe Varric or the Inquisitor are already aware of Davrin and introduce us before we head over to Weishaupt.

-Major Plot Threads-

I think we'll have three major plot threads through the story.

Elgar'nan conquering and Ghilain'nain experimenting

Solas being trapped and us finding a way to free him (if we choose to)

The Tevinter-Qunari war & conflict between Qunari factions

There may also be a fourth one involving the titans but it's hard to guess at that with how little we know about them.

-Misc. Guesses & Theories-

From here it's a lot harder to speculate about anything specific, so here's a list of my guesses for future events:

If I were to guess about the order the rest of our companions will join in, I'd say Lucanis > Taash > Emmrich, mostly just because of their classes. I could see them joining in any order though.

Bellara manages to repair the housing for the archive spirit that we find in the veil bubble during her intro quest. It ends up living in the Lighthouse and either acts as our crafting/upgrade person or is a source of elven history.

Elgar'nan will fully take over Tevinter at some point.

The big circular building hovering over Minrathous will be involved in the final conflict somehow, though I doubt it's where the final battle will be. It might even crash down on the city at some point, leveling a good chunk of Minrathous.

Final battle will be in the black city.

Over the course of the game, Solas will try to convince us to free him. We might be able to choose whether or not to listen to him.

We are able to free Solas in the last 3rd of the game. Or, something happens that results in Solas being freed. The Inquisitor is present for this event and this is when their reunion happens.

Dorian & Maevaris show up in the story when some shit goes down with the Magisterium, maybe Elgar'nan convincing the other magisters to join him.

Either we meet the Inquisitor first and hear the Dorian's voice for the first time over their communication crystal thing, or vice versa.

Elgar'nan and Ghilan'nain are both against us, but not necessarily working together. They may even end up fighting each other. We know the Evanuris often fought amongst themselves, after all.

The old gods Lusacan and Razikale are to Elgar'nan and Ghilain'nain, respectively, what Corypheus's red lyrium dragon was to him. In Trespasser Solas says Corypheus "discovered the secret of effective immortality". Since the Evanuris were already immortal, I would assume this refers to them coming back from being killed, as Mythal can.

Lusacan and Razikale are ancient great dragons, not just high dragons, and are thus incredibly difficult to kill in their own right. They are also more intelligent, possibly capable of speech.

Elgar'nan is the one who murdered Mythal.

Mythal shows up in dragon form toward the end and fucking wrecks Elgar'nan, maybe saving Solas from dying/sacrificing himself in the process (okay this one's less of a prediction and more "what if!" but still)

I think the Titans and Sandal will be relevant to the story but I can't even guess at what their roles will be at this point.

And that's a long enough post. I'm sure I'll have more theories as we learn more.

[himluv]

DA: The Veilguard Predictions/Theories, pt. 2

Welcome to part 2 of my mad dash to dump a few theories/predictions/hopes for DA4 before they all get obliterated this weekend with official updates!

Read part 1 here :)

2. The Twins/Double Blight

We’ve seen this imagery from Bioware showing (what appears to be) two Archdemons, and we know that there are only two Old Gods remaining in the Deep Roads (that these “Old Gods” are in fact the imprisoned Evanuris is not confirmed, but if it proves false I’ll eat my shoe). The remaining Old Gods are Lusacan, the God of Night, and Razikale, the God of Mystery. 

Now, I have very little evidence to support this, but I THINK the remaining Old Gods are Falon���Din and Dirthamen. Falon’Din, who “had no fear of the night,” whose symbol is an Owl – which also happens to be Lusacan’s symbol. Dirthamen is the Keeper of Secrets, and what are secrets but mysteries waiting to be solved?

I admit, when it comes to Dirthamen I have basically no strong evidence. I can argue for the point just as easily as I can argue against it - Dirthamen could just as easily be Silence as he could be Mystery (especially given his mosaic). And Razikale is the only confirmed female Old God (at least according to Tevinter worshippers and records).  BUT, and hear me out in this, a Double Blight – TWO Archdemons, simultaneously – and it isn’t Falon’Din and Dirthamen??? The Twins who are renowned for never traveling without the other? The Twins who swore never to be parted again?

C’mon! If we’re gonna do a Double Blight, I am BEGGING for it to be Falon’Din and Dirthamen. I feel like Lusacan being Falon’Din is highly likely. There is strong evidence linking the two, and Lusacan is potentially rising along with the only other remaining Old God? That HAS to be Dirthamen - right?

Obviously, I don’t know… but my gut says, “yes.” (and also, "PLEASE".)

[ehhhhhh]

A common theory is that the Old gods are the Evanuris but they don't quite map onto each other cleanly. My theory is that they are all just Mythal. By this I mean pieces of her like Flemythal.

The Old gods take the forms of dragons.

The Old gods can shapeshift like Flemeth. When an Archdemon is killed it possesses the nearness tainted creature and change its form.

I propose that there are eight pieces of Mythal. When the other Evanuris betrayed her they didn’t kill her (can you even kill a god?), the Warden couldn't in Origins, but split her and her power between themselves but one part escaped. 7 parts for the Evanuris that betrayed her (9 Evanuris - Solas and Mythal) + Flemythal = 8. 

Somewhen around the veil going up the pieces were put in the ground. Maybe by Solas (Solas is the Maker is a theory I also heard) so that the Evanuris wouldn’t be so powerful. That egg definitely knows something about the Blight. 

The speculated 8th Old God then would be Mythal.

The things that The Old gods are gods are just what Mythal was god of or just her traits:

Dumat - Silence. I got nothing on the Silence part but Mythal and Dumat are both associated with the constellation Silentir.

Zazikel - Chaos. I got nothing.

Toth - Fire. Dragons breathe fire.

Andoral - Slaves. The Evanuris owned slaves.

Urthemiel - Beauty. I would imagine that the leader of Evanuris would be considered beautiful.

Razikale - Mystery. Well of Sorrows contains knowledge.

Lusacan - Night. According to Dalish legend, Mythal created the Moon.

Another popular theory is that the Black city is Arlathan and the Evanuris are sealed there. We know the piece of Mythal that is with Flemeth wants justice or vengeance for what was done to her. Isn’t it interesting that the Old Gods convinced the Magisters to go to the Black city and that the blight which probably came from the Black city is seaking the The Old Gods. (What is the goal of the Archdemon? What is the Blight? Vengeance for Mythal, maybe? Or an attempt by the Evanuris to escape using Mythal's power?)

This is why Mythal wants the Old Gods soul in Origins and why she takes it from Kieran in Inquisition. She wants to be whole. I don’t know why she couldn't just go digging for the other parts. Do they need to be purified somehow or become compatible?

I feel that the fact that High dragons are immune to the Blight is somehow connected but I don't know how.

In conclusion, perhaps the dragon lady that has shown up in every DRAGON age game is very important.

[carabas]

Wild DA4 speculation about Evanuris and archdemons:

So, about the Double Blight theory. The idea that - assuming the seven Old God archdemons are somehow linked to the seven trapped elven gods; and assuming the last two surviving archdemons, Razikale of Mystery and Lusacan of Night, correspond to the twins Dirthamen of Secrets and Falon'din of Death - if the archdemons are as inseparable as the twins, maybe we'll see the final two archdemons rising at once. Maybe even as a two-headed archdemon. Like maybe that's what we're looking at in this older DA4 concept art:

Theory two: the specific statues that Rook knocked over freed their corresponding Evanuris. The statues with the bow-shaped and circle-shaped headpieces were knocked over, and then the Evanuris with the bow-shaped and circle-shaped headpieces were freed.

Except three statues fell.

Rook knocked over bow-shaped headpiece, which knocked over another statue, which knocked over circle-shaped headpiece, which fell on Solas.

So who's the statue in the middle? Why didn't that Evanuris appear with the other two?

I'm going with thedinanshiral's theory of which elven headpiece is which - meaning the bow is likely Andruil, the circle is likely Elgar'nan, and our missing god from the middle statue would be Falon'din.

So. Combining those theories.

What would freeing one of the twins do to a sleeping two-headed archdemon?

[karnesada]

Ghilan'nain Lore

Codex pdf download: DAO DA2 DAI DAV

Dalish myths

mother of the halla - Ghilan'nain was captured by a "hunter", and prayed to Andruil for help. Andruil's hares bit through Ghilan'nain bonds, and Andruil turned her into the first halla so she could escape 

this is apocryphal and refuted in Veilguard - Ghilan'nain made the halla when she was young and first started experimenting with creating beasts gandalfs_alt's analysis of this story & fen'harel and the tree (pre-veilguard - i put it into text but it's all her work)

halla - The halla are not servants or pets, and Ghilan'nain was not soft. She was once a huntress of the people. 

the dales: a promise lost - warriors invoked the names of Elgar'nan and Mythal, and Andruil and Ghilan'nain, before a fight.

World tales

constellation equinor - a Tevinter constellation that they suspect was tied to Ghilan'nain (like the others suspected to be tied to the gods and fen'harel).

constellation eluvia - once thought to be a constellation of Razikale, and the constellation was the source of many superstitions involving the granting of wishes.

exploring the ossuary - in excavations, Calivan discerned this was a temple to Ghilan'nain. The tales of her creating woodland creatures is not superstition, but supported y the remains of unidentifiable animals in the holdings cells and cages.

lake calenhad - the Tevinters believed that the waters of Lake Calenhad were blessed by Razikale, god of mysteries, and that those who drank from them were granted special insights

the lost city of barindur - the priests of Razikale dreamed of dark omens.

the horror of hormak - an outfit of grey wardens stumble onto one of twelve ancient labs where ghilan'nain experimented with the blight.

Ancient legends

the ascension of ghilan'nain - (found in the Temple of Mythal) Andruil hunted Ghil's beasts for a year, at which point Andruil offers apotheosis, but only if Ghil destroys all of her monsters. Ghil complies, but spares the halla and the creatures of the deep sea at 'Pride's' urging.

ancient elven writing (dirthamen's sinner) - Ghilan’nain allegedly urged a “sinner” that belonged to Dirthamen to take wings, which was treason as it was considered a divine shape. 

this forms the substance of the theory that there’s a connection between Dirth and Ghil. much of this post is disproven by veilguard, although the mosaic pairings are interesting. this is a better read on this story imo, that Ghil's "urging" of the sinner was a manipulation to weaken Dirthamen's position with Elgar'nan (and by extension, Falon'din, who waged a civil war against Elgar'nan). this lines up with the constant Evanuris infighting Solas and the Veil Jumpers talk about so much. but in sum, aside from the mention of her in this codex (the mention itself is hearsay), there is no lore connection between Dirth and Ghil beyond the title of 'Evanuris'.

pantomime theater mask of ghilan'nain - "In narrative, she is the price and acceptance of purpose, and the becoming that allows no return. Betrayal and devotion became equals to her."

Solas' dialogue

Ghilan'nain is "brilliant, ambitious, and unconstrained" by morality. She was Andruil's servant "whose skill in making monsters earned her a promotion to the Evanuris."

The archdemons’ life force is bound to the evanuris as both power and protection. each archdemon is shaped by the whims and ego of its master. in a kinder world we’d never see what she did to her archdemon, but it’s bad enough that solas says “i only hope you kill it quickly.”

She may see the darkspawn as new subjects for her "modifications."

Primary sources (letters, dialogue (not from Solas), etc.)

solas' letter to ghilan'nain (Elvhenan-era) - Solas urges her to turn away from the Evanuris, but claims to understand that her brilliance with creating things makes her feel like a god - and that she's doing this for love of Andruil.

ghilan'nain's reply to solas (Elvhenan-era) - Ghilan’nain doesn’t care about the title of ‘god’ - she cares that they’ll give her magic beyond what she has so she can create new things. Though she declares this is not for Andruil, she notes that Andruil “supports me, always, in everything.”

elgar’nan’s handwritten account (Veilguard-era) - Elgar’nan considers allowing Ghilan’nain to experiment on Lusacan, to “move her from listlessness” after the death of Razikale.

note to elgar'nan (Veilguard-era) - Ghilan'nain refutes Elgar'nan's advice that she "spend time to mourn" Andruil. she also claims that she was not upset by the Venatori's blood sacrifice of a halla, but sees as a sort of justice Elgar'nan's killing of all the Venatori there (in reference to the Blood of Arlathan mission when Lusacan rises).

note on the nature of griffons - Ghilan'nain found griffons in the oldest parts of the forests, and questions their nature. She is vexed that they have an antipathy "towards what Fen'harel insists on calling 'the blight.'"

Modern studies (Veilguard analysis)

an improved blight (bellara) - the modern blight is crude and simple. Ghilan'nain describes her process of perfecting it after waking. Bellara theorizes that Ghilan'nain may not remember what she looks like, or that she grafted on extra bits to herself before getting blighted.

dragon-crossroads revenant (taash)- Ghilan'nain made changes to the revenant dragon through the glowing blight warts. Ghilan'nain's changes weren't killing the dragon, they were changing her. The dragon could breath fire, lightning, and cold.

elven gods and tevinter gods - Ghilan'nain (halla, navigation, monsters) = Razikale, Dragon of Mystery.

[sleepymarmot]

Weisshaupt was epic! This is pretty much what I expected the Minrathous/Treviso city fight to look like. After 29 levels and more than 40 hours, I finally end the first act and see the mission that was the first leak of this game, years ago.

Very clever trick to explain why there are only two people with Rook in the main party.

I confess: I played it safe and chose to persuade the First Warden, even if it would have been far consistent with my aggressive/stoic Rook to punch him. I think I've seen someone mention that it might be beneficial later? Anyway, if it ends up not mattering, I'll just retcon it.

We finally witness Ghilan'nain's monster-making powers in action! I've already lost hope of seeing that.

Let's recap: the "old god soul" we've heard about in Origins is the fragment of the corresponding Evanuris's spirit that is held inside the archdemon. Usually when a Grey Warden kills an archdemon, that soul goes into the Warden and is annihilated. This time, when Davrin stabbed the archdemon, the main part of its soul was nearby, so the fragment inside the archdemon merged back into it.

By the way, congratulations to anyone who might have theorized that Razikale was the counterpart to Ghilan'nain. "Mystery" could have suggested Dirthamen as well, but on the other hand, there are codex entries in JoH that refer to Razikale with she/her pronouns, which should have been a good hint.

Everyone attributes Lucanis missing the shot to his concern for his blighted home. What does it look like if Treviso was saved? As far as I gathered, it was still Lucanis who missed even in that route, not Neve. Even in my game the excuse sounds really flimsy, I imagine it's even weirder in the other.

It's really funny how insistently the game is telegraphing its mechanics. Didn't do it enough in case of Minrathous/Treviso (want to finally recruit a tank to defend your band of squishies? fuck you, quests missed forever), is kind of overdoing it here.

I really felt for Davrin afterwards, and it felt significant to pick the openly sad or nice dialogue options as a stoic/angry character. And yet again, I had to force myself not to click the heart option. They just feel so natural! But I've already decided on Neve for this playthrough, and I don't want to lead him on, especially in this situation. I didn't realize he had been passively suicidal the whole time!

I expected Solas to laugh at my failure and/or chew me out, and instead he... consoled and complimented me?... Repeatedly? Rook sounded so arrogant when she complained about not being able to kill an entire god on the first try, even I was taken aback. But Solas comforted her and congratulated her on the victory! I guess he's starting to see himself in her. "I have absolute faith in your ability to aggravate enemies who should know better than to underestimate you" (read: Solas himself) is practically a love confession. Is he manipulating her into letting down her guard, or being sincere, or both?

My recording of this sequence is 1 hour 15 minutes long, and takes up almost 7GB. Recording video instead of screenshots is convenient because I don't have distract myself from the game with hotkeys, but god is it heavy on the storage space. I have around 85GB total by now, and I just finished act 1...Perhaps I'll have to delete some later.

[ladyofsnark]

I don't read any of the extra material outside the games, so if this is stuff that we've been told, ignore me:

We know that the ancient Tevinter empire was basically built on the bones of the Elvhen empire.

We also know that there were nine elvhen gods and seven Tevinter gods.

Elgar'nan: God of Vengeance.

Mythal: the Great Protector.

Falon'Din: Friend of the Dead, the Guide.

Dirthamen: Keeper of Secrets.

Andruil: Goddess of the Hunt.

Sylaise: the Hearthkeeper.

June: God of the Craft.

Ghilan'nain: Mother of the Halla.

and Fen Harel

As for tevinter gods we have

Dumat, the Dragon of Silence and the archdemon of the First Blight

Zazikel, the Dragon of Chaos and the archdemon of the Second Blight

Toth, the Dragon of Fire and the archdemon of the Third Blight

Andoral, the Dragon of Slaves and the archdemon of the Fourth Blight

Urthemiel, the Dragon of Beauty and the archdemon of the Fifth Blight

Razikale, the Dragon of Mystery

Lusacan, the Dragon of Night

We also know that Fen Harel and Mythal escaped whatever fate befell the other gods

Leaving 7

Oh well would you look at that.

Funny also how we know that Flemeth--or Mythal--can turn into a dragon

I don't think this is any kind of mind blowing revelation.

But it is curious that we've heard throughout the series that the Darkspawn are "servants" and "slaves" to the Blight/the Archdemons

You know I really wonder what happened to all of the ancient Elvhen's slaves that Fenharel didn't free

[greyborn2]

Locked Tomb AU I've had bumbling around my head for AGES; Dragon Age AU where all of the GtN Canaan house crew are the most promising magisters and scions of powerful houses within the Tevinter Imperium, and their Templars (the Templar-Mage dynamic the Tevinter have matches on SOOOO well with the Cav-Necro dynamic!!). The timelines don't really work for it (with templars being a part of the chantry, and the chantry not being formed until AFTER this) but also really really reallyyyyy adore the idea of what they are working towards in Canaan house being the tearing down of the Fade and the entering of the Golden City. You'd need to get rid of one of the pairs so there's seven pairs (for seven Old Gods) instead of eight, but ah well. Dumat, Dragon of Silence, easily the one Harrow's the priest of. Urthemiel, Dragon of Beauty, probably the one I'd give to Dulcie/Cyth Razikale, Dragon of Mystery, easy sixth. Get that dragon, Pal! Lusacan, Dragon of Night, for the fifth. No strong reasons, just need to assign them to SOMEBODY Zazikel, Dragon of Chaos, probably give them to the fourth. Same reasons as above. Need to be assigned to somebody. Andoral, Dragon of Slaves, definitely the one I'd give to the third and all their fucked up stuff. Toth, Dragon of Fire, the one I'd give to the Second. Probably. IDK, Dumat for Ninth and Razikale for Sixth just WORK so well.

Also makes Harrowhark the Corypheus stand in which is just *chef's kiss* to me.

[echthr0s]

#VEILGUARD30 | dragon

What is a dragon? What does it mean to be dragon?

I am dragon for untold eons, as long as there have been creatures on two legs with the imagination to paint rudimentary representations of me and my brethren on massive boulders and stone walls, and longer still than that. I am dragon in the sky, then on the land, now under the earth. I am custodian of the world, then I am prisoner of the world. But this is not all. I am here and I am elsewhere. I am dragon in other worlds than this; all dragons are. It is our knowing, the endless multiplicity of worlds. It is our knowing, how to be in many and one, how to be paradox. For this, the small mortal creatures call us < gods / devils >.

What is a god? What does it mean to be god?

I am custodian, but I wish to be creator. I take mortal-stuff and I mix it with dragon-stuff and shape it, and I plant it in the world. Kossith, children of elves, children of dragons. I see them suffer the madness of this heritage. I teach them dragonspeak, to organise their thought, to mask paradox. I see their tongues shape it into the Qun.

My games annoy Dumat. It does not understand. I am Mystery; I know what Dumat does not. I whisper in my priest's mind. I see the Magisters come to where we are, bleed their mortality into our immanence, make something new. I < laugh / grieve > when Dumat turns inside out, when its beautiful chaos is twisted and warped and blighted. It dooms us, we world-wyrms, we things of wild and cosmic magic. I know that we are doomed regardless, and Dumat is only catalyst.

Is it so fated that, being beyond natural death, < gods / dragons > must be killed by those who know death best? Is it so fated that I must embrace and fight inevitability in equal measure, until the fight and the embrace are the same?

I am prisoner now, as we all are, but I am clever thing, cunning thing. I am diffuse thing, one in many. I am being Talan, Qunari who is more than Qunari, who comes to be in more worlds than this. I am being Urthemiel's Architect, who is like me: creator, prisoner, under the earth. I am being Anansi Surana, my Augur made new, who will < break / build > the world, who will < kill us / set us free >. I feel the ardor of seeing gears slip out of alignment, of seeing the order of the world bend and warp. I feel it happening in other worlds in kind, an inexorable hunger chewing through the fabric of creation. < Gods / dragons > must be killed. < Godstuff / dragonstuff >, when released, make worlds anew. The nature of the remade world is up to the small mortal creatures who kill us.

< I am Razikale / I am only Mystery. > Reduce me to essence, drink deep of me. Be remade by me, and see the world remade.

[veylia]

Found this on Reddit. Mindblowing!

Ok so get ready because there is a lot to unravel, but this has some level of plausibility in the game and the biggest evidence is Cole.

The Cole we know did not possess the original Cole, he was a spirit of compassion that was so moved by the vivid memory of the original Cole that he formed a body from the fade itself. It's the whole reason Cole himself is so strange and unique and why Solas was so interested in him, Cole is proof that the Fade can materialize physically into the world, and do so to such an extent that it is unable to be distinguished from already existing life.

So what does this have to do with the Elven gods? EVERYTHING

The Elven gods were without a doubt greedy and evil beings who aspired to godhood, thus they of all creatures trapped in the fade aftyer creating the veil would've had the strongest emotions pouring into the world through it after they were imprisoned. I highly doubt beings of that strength and pride would just sit in their prisons, they would try to escape, they would try to influence the world, hence they would manifest themselves into reality similar to Cole.

How they did this would be unclear but what is clear is that there were no "Old Ones" before the elves, no dragons that claimed godhood or challenged the Elven gods in such a way in dreams. but once the Elven gods were imprisoned the Imperium suddenly had their gods, strange huh?

They probably didn't manifest physically like Cole, they didn't have memories of a person to do so and obviously the nature of the new world would've been as foreign to them as it was to Solas, thus they couldn't study or begin to understand the limitation of magic and their powers. But they didn't need to, they needed a large enough following to break them out, and they found it with the Magisters and Corypheus.

Not including Solas there were 7 Elven "gods" (not Including Mythal or Solas the elven pantheon has 7 gods), each would take on a form of the dragons that made up the Old Gods, 7 Old Gods, 7 Elven gods. (also they may not be like this except for Dumat who I'm certain was Elgar'nan, but here's a list of how exactly which dragon is one of the elven gods.)

Elgar'nan became Dumat, god of Silence "leading" as head of the new pantheon much like how he did in his last one.

Falon'din took on the form of Lusacan, dragon of night reflecting his position as a god of death before.

Andruil became Zazikel, dragon of Chaos, reflecting her madness from interacting with the void

Sylaise became Toth, dragon of fire, reflecting her stance as god of the hearth

Dirthamen became Razikale, dragon of mystery, reflecting his secrets

Ghilan'nain became Urthemiel, dragon of beauty, reflecting her role as a nature goddess.

June became Andoral, dragon of slaves, in relation to the crafts (chains/dalish tattoos) he forge(ed).

When they were telling the magisters to walk into the fade and enter the Golden City, they were really trying to get the magisters to either free them physically through the tear or posses the magisters to return physically and tear down the veil later.

What happened was something entirely different, they did return to the physical world, but the raw disconnect of the fade from the physical world drove them mad, it caused them and the magisters who returned with them to go mad and sick with what we know as the Blight. The Magisters became the first Darkspawn, the elven gods became the Archdemons. 7 Old Gods, 7 Elven Gods, 7 Archdemons.

They physically manifested into the world as Cole did but the transformation was incomplete and twisted, torn apart from the raw disconnect of the Fade and the Physical world interacting in ways they never should. From that interaction came a rejection, rejection of life, rejection of flesh, rejection of faith, until their new bodies twisted and blackened, breaking and rotting, growing and bloating, forming the draconic like figures we know.

Solas is unaware of the relation and was not able to feel them leaving their prison due to his slumber. Mythal however understood what was happening and thus began to build power, finding Flemeth to begin plans to eventually defeat them, however once Solas awoke and his Orb destroyed she realized he would come to take her power as a replacement, unable to stop him but still aware of her power she willingly let herself be taken to effect Solas later with her power. Solas would/will be travelling to Tivinter to eventually find another Titan north, to craft a new ord. (For those who don't know there are several artwork and hints in the game that the Orb comes from the hearts of Titans and the Elven gods got their power from warring with the Dwarves/Titans, hunting them to near extinction while growing their power. originally the war was just about stopping the quakes caused by the Titans but once lyrium and the Orbs were discovered the Evanuris were born.)

EDIT:

After playing Veilguard, it turned out that the elven gods each had an Archdemon, that worked like horcruxes. Here's what I could find on Google:

The First archdemon was Dumat, and belonged to Dirthamen The Second was Zazikel, belonged to June The Third was Toth, belonged to Sylvaise The Fourth Archdemon was Andoral, belonged to Andruil The Fifth Archdemon, Urthemiel (Dragon Age Origins), belonged to Falon'din

The last two Archdemons, Razikale and Lusacan, obviously belong to Ghilan'nain and Elgar'nan

Only the last two are certain, but like I said, this is what I could find on Google.

[dragon-age-codex-entries]

Codex entry: Mouth of Echoes

“The savages speak to their gods in the cave passage. They call it the Mouth of Echoes. They light fires and feed them with green spruce and shout their questions into the deep. They say answers come to them on the last whispered echo. Superstition, we laughed. And now Razikale is silent and madness descends. I can only think, what if? What if there are irregularities in the Veil here? What if we could secure the Avvar cave and bend it to our purposes?

The slaves are gathering materials. We will build a shrine to the Dragon of Mystery—implant foci into the walls, cut sacred designs into the stone, the better to hear her with. We will hear her voice again, or we will die.”

—Scribbled in blood-red ink on parchment found in the Mouth of Echoes