#what is it with spn and beings creating the thing that will destroy them.

[quietwingsinthesky]

oh i guess Eve is also in this fic now.

[castielstwigandberries]

if the supernatural movie doesnt include a reference to

nevada and georgia turning blue, stop the count, destiel making putin resign, sherlock season 5 rumors, destiel news meme, which political person had to be briefed on what destiel is now?, jensen looks like he was holding back homophobic slurs, weird cuts in the confession scene, which way was dean thrown now?, bury your gays speedrun, gay angels get send to superhell/eeby-deeby/cas plinko, recognizing the confession scene only by the first letters of each word, 'homosexual declaration of love', The Tapes™ (Release them now jensen!!!), meta analysis after 15x18, 'i gripped you tight and raised you from perdition' callback as dean saves cas from the empty, why lamp?, onion field, pizza man montage, parallels be paralleling, dean screaming cas name so loud in one take that people heard it blocks away, dean offering to kill sam if it means chuck brings cas back, the 4 year old son of lucifer becoming god, chuck won theory, 'we explore the nature of destiel in act two', excitement for a long finale which could only be about dean saving cas, right?, the insanity inducing quotes of the day for episodes, 'the night we met' and 'angel with a shotgun' songs of the day on set, filming in a barn, worst finale ever (even worse than game of thrones), weirly short with 11 scenes cut, two thirds montages, carry on wayward son playinf twice, back to back, one a weird cover version, vampmimes, no cas in the finale but instead some random vampire from season one no one remembers, dean finally gets nailed from behind, dean dies from tetanus, party city wig, good cars go to heaven, Car/Cas and Biden/Bi!Dean/Bye!Dean, 'cas helped', blurry wife, misha and jensen are not in the thank you video, everyone was supposed to be at the roadhouse originally but no one was informed of those plans, walker backdoor pilot, covid/capitalism destroyed everything, misha was in vancouver for filming the last episodes and was in less episodes than he was contracted for, misha denies ever having been in vancouver, misha says originally he was supposed to be in the finale as jimmy, misha says cas was supposed to be in the finale and 'sidle up to dean in the roadhouse', heterosexual destiel whose kisses would have created entire universes, destiel reciprocated in spanish, rogue translator, #TheySilencedYou, Jensen Ackles sexy silence, jensen ackles longcon, deanbenny breakup in season 8 script leak, Heller Obama, fake italian dub, misha collins x bill clinton sex scandal, misha addressing the "scandal" and tagging bill clinton and monica lewinski, 'still beautiful, still dean winchester', mishapocalypse 2.0 and 3.0, 'eyes like the sky' beer from jensens brewery rumored to be misha description, cockles anniversay photo, chaos machine jensen ackles' production company, 'rainbow road' beer close to deans birthday, blue green ('destiel') shotglasses from jensen brewery, ash and ellen's actors roleplaying roadhouse reopening in twitter, people think they are planning destiel wedding, disappointment when thats not the case, fans celebrate Destiel Wedding anyway on Valentine's Day 2021, fallout with both actors after one said a 'queer interpretation would damage the integrity of the show',

*takes a deep breath*

jared calling cas junkless and comparing his love for dean to the love he has for his children, misha collins cameo including 'still beautiful, still dean winchester', saileen and midam wedding, spn prequel announcement and subsequent j2 fallout, '@/robbiethompson et tu brute wow. what a trully awful thing you've done #bravo you coward', the prequel being about the least favourite characters of supernatural and a love story disproved by canon, 100000 destiel fics on ao3, misha tweets about that, rumors if mishas secret ao3 account, real italian dub going 'you're kinda okay' instead of i love you, misha tweeting a video of him saying 'te amo' in response to that', jensen saying if there'd been more time he (he meant dean but he used first person pronouns) would have hugged cas and said 'i love you too', first anniversary, misha collins coming out as bisexual on accident and then saying he 'happens to be straight' three days later in a five post apology thread, hot sauce from adam/micheal actor advertised by him playing midam, casbaiting in the winchesters trailer, jarlos shipping by winchester main actors, dean with beard and turtleneck, jensen saying he wanted misha in the winchesters but it didnt work out because of scheduling conflicts but hed be there in a season two shortly before the show was cancelled, death of the rogue translator and destiel getting dragged to the trending page every time there is news

*panting* then i dont want it.

yes this is all i could remember without looking it up

[bellamybellamyblake]

When the Sun Sets - Part 3

In-Between

Characters:

morgan winchester (OC), sam winchester, dean winchester, alastair

Summary:

the winchesters after the death of the middle child. oh, and hell.

Warnings (for entire story):

SPN typical violence, so so much suppressing of emotions, vague mention of SA, depiction of torture, a very pro-torture main character, vague mention of not eating for a while, slightly suicidal ideation, SPN typical alcohol abuse, spoiler warning up to the end of season 8, following canon stops after the end of season 2, but things are definitely going to be mentioned.

Word Count:

2.1k ~ roughly

A/N:

ahhh this one, i love this one. trigger warning for torture. POV switches a few times.

italics = flashback.

dean: 28, morgan: 27, sam: 24

It was all too much.

"I'm not gonna let you go to Hell, Mo!" Sam, the middle Winchester, said as his tears betrayed him.

Morgan wouldn't let them save her. She didn't even let them try. After what felt like a lifetime of them protecting her, she wouldn't accept any more of it. Sam and Dean Winchester used every outlet, read every book they could find twice and called every hunter they knew to find some way to get her out of this with no luck. Their last ditch effort, was doomed to end just end the way they dreaded the most; with the middle child being scratched and ripped to shreds by hellhounds.

She made a deal with the devil. Now her fate was sealed.

“Yes, you are.”

One shot.

The old grandfather clock struck midnight and marked the close of a year, bringing the siblings to silence. It was an earthquake confined to the small room and Dean wasn't positive, but he thought he could see the sound waves as they pulsed and thumped. He could feel them in his bones, leaving them shattered in their wake. He felt his stomach rise up to his throat at the pang. He couldn't control the way his heart started to pound, like it would explode out of his chest.

The demon was next to his sister, and expressed her sympathies, but Morgan couldn't peel her eyelids up to look at her. Eyes the color of the sky had filled with tears, sticking to her lashes. He knew that if she blinked, they'd fall, and the fallacy she'd created - that this case was just a run-of-the-mill salt and burn - would be destroyed.

Then, when she flinched without warning, he knew she was hearing them. Fatal and hungry. Her voice broke through the tauntingly ominous quiet, and somehow it's worse than the damn clock.

“Hellhounds.”

Another one.

Morgan's voice was familiar to her brothers, but it was deeper than usual. Full of gravel, and it lacked the authority it usually held. It was hollow and horse and full of fear, something Sam and Dean didn't want to hear from their sister again. Sam's face was nearly a replica when he spoke, asking how she could hear it, and where it was coming from.

Then they were running. Doing everything they could to get her away from the dogs that wanted to pull her soul from her body piece by piece, atom by atom, back to Hell with them for eternal damnation. They made it into a small office, Sam, Ruby and Morgan holding the door shut, keeping the hounds out while Dean put a barrier line on the floor and windows so they couldn't get in right away. It was a futile effort, maybe it would buy them a few seconds, but it wasn't fucking enough.

The bourbon slid down his throat, smooth and warm, a burn that matched the sting in his eyes. The tears threatened to fall as he let out a shaky exhale and tried to breathe past the tightening in his throat. No matter what he did, no matter how much he drank, nothing would free him from the memory. He knew it wasn't going away, but he was determined to keep at it until he couldn't remember his sister's name anymore.

Morgan's screams echoed through their ears, pulsing and tearing at them again and again until it hurts their own vocal cords. They stared, not making a sound, just watching their sister get torn apart until she couldn't breathe. Until they couldn't breathe. Dean thought that, maybe in some corner of reality, Sam was saying something but his pleas continue to go ignored. Dean could only sit with his knees to the floor - and not just because Lilith wasn't letting him move.

Her blood was everywhere; the floor, the walls, some on his legs. The clatter of a knife hitting the floor went unnoticed. The youngest Winchester's cries as he held the motionless body didn't exist.

There was nothing except the ringing in Dean's ears.

There was nothing but a body that was getting cold and he couldn't tell if it was Morgan's or his.

Who the hell cares how long ago it was? There were some things time couldn't heal. And even Dean couldn’t deny that the past was harder to deal with when the sun sets.

The bartender gave him an incredulous gaze as he motioned for more, it was a look that told him he was probably close to finishing the bottle. A look he had been getting a lot lately. He wanted to retort rudely but even the alcohol couldn't weaken his exceptional ability to keep his mouth shut.

A brush of red hair suddenly entered his peripheral vision. He turned to see a woman, probably twenty-nine or thirty, definitely not much older or younger than him. She wore a sleeveless red flannel tied up at her ribs, denim shorts with the pockets sticking out at the front that barely left anything to the imagination, a light brown cowboy hat with matching boots and a belt. Practically every other redneck chick ever, Dean thought, but I'm not complaining.

Dean sat a bit confused for a moment when the girl didn't say anything. She just stood there, right next to him, too close - in an under-crowded bar no less - to pretend she didn't have any intentions. He guessed that the blonde was trying to put together a coherent pick-up line before she spoke. When she finally decided to talk, her words were kind of slurred together and very accented, but not too much where the eldest Winchester was worried about taking advantage. If anything, he rationalized, I'm drunker. He practically grew up drinking, given his family, and learned how to handle booze early on.

"What's a guy like you doin' in a place like this?"

"It took you two 'n a half minutes to come up with that? What are you? A guy?"

"Hey," She chuckled. "Gimme a break, been drinkin' a bit."

Dean eyed her up and down a second time, making it blatantly obvious he was checking her out. He hummed and nodded, silently giving the girl his approval. "Clearly."

The woman wasn't really clean, with dirt under her chipped finger nails that suggested she didn't ever wash her hands. There was a sheen of soot all over her exposed skin. Which there was a lot of, but again, he was not complaining. She kind of looked gross if Dean had anything to say about it. But she had a nice enough face and she was his type on paper: skinny with an ass, curly hair.

Plus, it wasn't like he hadn't gone a week without showering before. And come to think of it, that had become way less rare over the past few months.

So who was he to judge?

Sam Winchester used to give his siblings a hard time for how much they drank. But honestly? He got it now. As he had his mouth to Ruby's wrist, guzzling down her blood for the fourth time that night, he wondered why he didn't try it sooner. Well, he knew why. Because the thought of ingesting demon blood was foreign to just about everyone. It made him feel alive, helped him forget. Or it at least distracted him enough to the point where couldn't even begin to think about it. Kept his ass from bouncing off the walls when thinking about his sister or the last time he saw Dean became too much. 

He hadn't seen Dean in months, and he almost didn't want to. The two of them were so far removed from each other that by that point, he didn't know how to break the ice. He didn't know if Dean even wanted him to.

He was stuck, picturing Morgan tied up, being tortured, because of him. Because she just had to go and save him. There was nothing he could do about it anymore. There was no getting her out of Hell. He had already tried to make a deal, and he didn't even have to wonder if Dean did too. There was nothing the Winchester brothers wouldn't do for their sister. But the sheer fact that there wasn't anything left for them to try was enough to keep him locked in that fucked up cycle with Ruby.

Hook up with her, drink her blood, kill some demons, increase his skill, repeat.

What else could he do?

Morgan Winchester was dead. She didn't know exactly for how many Earth years, but in Hell time, it'd been six thousand.

The first forty years were doable, being strung up on the rack was doable. The whips, her fingernail's being torn off, the knives slowly cutting away at her. She could handle it. She could even handle the psychological torture, having her hallucinate her siblings and parents, coming in and telling her what they truly thought of her. All things she had already known, and had already believed. But it was when they upped the anti, that she started to crack. It was when demons started doing all of that and more as her family. When they stopped using tools and started using their hands, she had truly begun to break. There was another fifteen years of that.

And when she finally gave up, it had become her job to do it to someone else.

Alastair was a damn good teacher, she had to give it to him. He had been the one to torture her, and he basked in the glory of turning a Winchester into a demon. It took about three thousand more Hell years, but she finally finished the program. Two thousand tortured souls under her belt to her teacher's satisfaction.

Demons started torturing to avoid being tortured themselves. They were the result of going to Hell and having all humanity burned out of their human soul. They were dark, malicious spirits that reveled in pain, chaos and death. Ruby had told Morgan that most demons forgot what it meant to be human. Some even forget that they were humans in the first place. She had learned some demons were true believers, though, in Hell's purpose. To cleanse. And they truly believed themselves morally superior to humans.

But after another thousand years, she started having fun.

She had only wished that by the time she was down there and playing her latest game on the next soul, she could've gotten the chance to torture her father. Get her grimy hands on his skin and tear it off of him cell by cell. Then she heard Sam was down there, too, and she would've been upset, had she not known he was locked up in the cage with Lucifer. She knew she was good at her job, but compared Lucifer and Michael? Even as a demon, her ego hadn't grown that big.

And then she got to pick her own name, and all bets were off.

On Earth, Adriadne had never seen a demon's true form. Now down in the pit, where they roamed freely and carelessly, she didn't flinch at the sight of them. When her soul had started changing, becoming stickier, malleable, and black, she almost second guessed her decision to get off the rack. But at the same time, her memories of her time on Earth were starting to fade. They started twisting into her memories of being tortured - becoming one in the same.

Recently, she had heard a few more things. One; that Dean Winchester, someone she couldn't quite put her finger on, was in purgatory with an angel. Two; that Crowley was not only the king of Hell, but he was granting certain demons passage to Earth for a little joyride upstairs. Three; that he was restoring their old bodies, if in decent enough shape.

Eventually, Adriadne, no longer remembered her real name. Adriadne was who she is, was and what she would always be, for the rest of time. Where there used to be normal human eyes there was only darkness. No pupil, no cornea, no whites of the eyes; everything was just black.

She did remember there were people on Earth that used to love her, and she remembered the physical aspects to being human. Having to eat and sleep and breathe, but not much else. There was something about needing connection with another human that meant something to them, but it was lost on her.

But as she tried to remember the smallest bit about who she used to be, she realized it was pointless. Why would she try to remember when she was powerless? When she had no purpose, no duty?

She figured that maybe a trip upstairs in her original meat suit might be fun. She couldn’t find a reason not to.

Why wouldn’t she take the chance to feel the sun on her skin?

[ranwing]

So... how much of a clusterfuck was The Winchesters finale?

A massive one, in my humble opinion. This show turned out to be a classic bait and switch. It got sold to the audience as one thing, but with the conclusion turned out to be something else completely.

Let's just start off with the biggest issue - the story of John and Mary and how their love saved the world? Complete bullshit. John and Mary had nothing to do with the final conclusion of the series. They were not even the John and Mary that we grew to know and have deeply conflicted feelings about. They were an alternate version, existing in one of the many alternate universes that Chuck liked to play with. They weren't Sam and Dean's parents and might not ever come to have a Sam and/or Dean of their own.

This is, IMO, exceedingly sloppy writing. We knew from the very start that this was the most likely scenario, as there was no way that TW would fit in with original SPN cannon without massive retcons so this allowed the writers to basically thrown cannon into the shredder because nothing mattered. They could screw around with the mythology and do whatever they wanted because it's an alternate universe. As a writer, this pisses me off because even when writing AUs, there need to be some ground rules to connect with the premise of the original series. This just gave them an out for poor research and sloppy writing.

Which brings us to another major problem. How was there an alternate universe for Dean to play around in when we were told in the final season of SPN that Chuck had destroyed every reality except for the one that our Sam and Dean existed in. Unless Jack went out of his way to create a universe for Dean to jump into, there was no way for this to work with SPN lore. If Jack was now God and could fix all of the damage Chuck had done, why didn't he just deal with the Akrida? Why did Dean need to step in to protect the reality that Sam was currently still living in?

Then we have the biggest issue and that was how Dean was used. Or rather, Jensen since there wasn't a whole lot of Dean there. When the series was first announced and Jared's/Sam's fans were livid that he was being completely excluded from the series (and hadn't even been told that Jensen was ready to move ahead with it before the announcement was made), we were assured that this was all about John and Mary and that Dean would be, at most, a passive narrator. That Jared wasn't deliberately excluded and all would make sense. Well, it did make sense that we were lied to. Whether they realized that trying to make the show about John and Mary just wasn't resonating with the audience and tossing Dean into a more active role was something of a hail Mary, or this was the plan all along, Dean ended up being not just the McGuffin, but the hero of the story. He gets to save the day and all of reality.

This makes it painfully clear that this show wasn't about trying to explore other stories in the SPN universe. This was about Jensen's ego. That he was still upset that his character wasn't the last man standing, even when he admits that narratively it made more sense for Sam to be. This was about giving him the opportunity to be the big solo hero without having to share screen time with Jared. I can't say whether this was what Jensen and CM had originally planned or whether it became necessary to salvage the lackluster storyline, but it turned out to be an empty exercise of hubris and ego.

And I'm sorry, but trying to excuse Sam's erasure by having Dean claim that he was doing this because he had "family" in his own verse (who he couldn't even bring himself to call by name) was a cheap cop out. It doesn't make up for how Jensen and Dannell acted when putting this mess together and how he treated Jared. It was a slap in the face to the majority of the SPN audience, who watched because we loved both the brothers.

If there is any justice in the universe, the network will see this as the failure that it was and that the SPN legacy should never have been put in the hands of an inexperienced production company or when one of the leads is deliberately excluded. TW does not in any way warrant or need a second season and this should been tossed away a the failed experiment that it was.

Sorry Jensen, but you shat the bed. This dumpster fire is all on you.

[hellfiredm]

Wait. Did you just say steddie spn crossover AU. Omg pls tell me more!! How would it even work? You tease (sorry if that's too forward of me), you can't just drop supernatural (insert mordor meme here) into the conversation and not make me die for more 😫xD

🤣🤣🤣 It was born out of my desire to see Dean and Eddie interact because they'd be such bros. It'd be very "In The Beginning" with Cas telling Sam and Dean they have to stop it, but like, stop what? And they end up in March 1986 Hawkins, and the first time Dean sees Eddie, he's like "That's Eddie Munson from Corroded Coffin!" And of course, Sam is just like, "Who??" Anyway, the reader finds out in the future Dean and Sam know, Corroded Coffin hits it big, Eddie ends up leaving the band because they become "too mainstream", and settles down somewhere in California with his partner, Steve. But Cas tells them that this Eddie actually brings about the end of the world, time and time again, and they have to figure out how to stop it so that the future they know ends up being the real thing (ah, time travel). And throughout it, we find out Vecna/Henry/001 is actually a Nephilim, who created the Upside Down to the destroy the world, blah blah blah. So yeah, we get fanboy!Dean freaking out over getting to save Eddie Munson, as well as the world, and a totally different twist on Season 4, basically.

[misc-obeyme]

Here is my theory of if the princes died what would happen to the offspring: loved your idea btw it was cute

My theory is that if it is half human and half demon there demon blood dies like it will slow them down and depending on the power balance of the brothers, it may kill the hybrid.

(I have taken some.parts from other fandoms and any lore or information that I understood)

However if the offspring was a angel/demon there demonic blood will perish leaving their angelic grace.

Now comparing the brothers seems unfair, but looking behind the mythology and the powers they have, we can establish Lucifer's child (Satan) will be the most powerful as Lucifer is a tyrant of some sort.

I personally think Leviathan than Mammon has I cant seem to find a lot on Mammon and also seems like Mamon is not part of the goetia.

Leviathan is a great sea serpent that God created, and distroyed because God was scares of what he created, however, Leviathan not in beast form is probably okay dude, there child may not survive.

Mammon next.. for me he owns the banks in hell, in obey me can seem to make all wealth disappear when he ends it with someone. Mammon can manipulate anyone and is quite hard to work with. However in Obey me we see him at the hands of the witchs and probably in debth. Mammon also may have built cities which attract demons and sinners alike. He is powerful but not known how many legions but works closely with Belial. He is also said that crows and magpipes are said to be sacred to him. And use these to spy on enemy lines and also may help steal realms from his brothers to help build his kingdom.

Beel and Belphegor, Beelzebub has its own leigon and is Lucifer second command, or bodyguard like in Obey Me. Beelzebub is terrifying and close with Belphegor making the duo really strong.

Asmodeus to me seems like the 3rd powerful. Asmodeus is the demon of lust, and owns the adult industry of hell. He is ruthless demon and can manipulate to his own. In Obey me its mentioned that Solomon is afraid of water (correct me if im wrong) but in other media and lore Asmodeus hates water since water reminds him of God. He like Beelzebub ans Satan and Lucifer is a King. He also owns all the casinos in hell. He also has quite a large legions under him."In the Book of Tobit, Asmodeus who fell in love with Sarah, then slays seven successive husbands on their wedding nights."

Now to me the one who is likely to have offpsrings with humans is probably Mammon or Asmodeus. (Asmodeus son Magnus Bane from the mortal instruments)

This is no hate and sorry if it was long and you kinda can tell which demon is my fav. I love Obey me and its fun to sometimes think if for example, if SPN Lucifer swapped with OM Lucifer, or if OM Asmo swapped with SPN Asmo.

Oh hello, anon! I based my answer entirely on Obey Me, but things can definitely get different depending on which demons you're talking about! I remember the whole nephilim thing in spn being a big deal, like they were hunted down because they were considered too powerful and such. So if we're dealing with a world where such hybrids are seen as threats, then it's certainly possible that they would be hunted down instead of taken care of. I just find that Obey Me in general is not that dark, so I think they'd be like nope, adoption time lol.

Interesting interpretations of all the demons! There's so much space for combining different aspects of them and creating entirely new personalities and powers. It sounds like you've spent some time working out who they all are and everything so you could totally write some interesting stories about them, if that's what you're thinking of doing!

Oh man, thinking about an Obey Me and spn Lucifer or Asmodeus swap is a little mind boggling lol! I think spn Lucifer would lose his whole mind and just start destroying things. Meanwhile, Obey Me Lucifer is irritated as hell and just starts lecturing everybody. I only vaguely remember Asmodeus from spn wasn't he the one that like tortured Gabriel at one point? I kinda thought he tried to take over hell from Crowley or something too? Or maybe he just wanted to be a high rank or something... I can't quite remember. But if Obey Me Asmo was in spn, wow I can't even imagine how that'd go. He'd probably want to give them all makeovers. He's like these guys wear way too much plaid.

[sarah-dipitous]

Hellsite Nostalgia Tour 2023 Day 174

Everybody Hates Hitler/The Wedding of River Song

“Everybody Hates Hitler”

Plot Description: Sam and Dean investigate the death of a rabbi who spontaneously combusted. They soon learn that the rabbi was researching nazi necromancers

Would I Survive the First Five Minutes??: I’m not a nazi, I’m not a necromancer, I’m certainly not a nazi necromancer. I think I’m good

I’m mostly just worried that what this show is going to do is call whatever the product of necromancing that large man a golem……..

…how far in advance did the Men of Letters pay the electricity bill? Or do they have their own whatever??? Because this place has been abandoned for YEARS. THANK YOU, Sam.

Me 🤝 Dean: this thing can’t be that dangerous. (Reader, it was. But where I only mildly burned my finger on a car’s cigarette lighter, Dean cut himself with a scimitar)

I’M not denying that this dude is being followed and has some real supernatural worries goin on because *gestures broadly* BUT I can’t blame the librarian for wanting to go home shortly after closing time. Like. That’s just normal

I am BEGGING for a scene with Kevin and Garth, not just mentioning them

I AM glad that the boys have a place that isn’t just the impala to call home now

I don’t know what’s happening to him rn but…maybe he’s just growing up and college coeds are not on his radar anymore (one can hope), but Dean would normally be way more interested in what these two girls are saying…and not getting distracted by the guy subtly trying to get his attention from a distance

HE’S SO FLUSTERRRRRRED after finding out this guy thought they had a little bit of a thing when they saw each other earlier (which…I must have stepped away from the screen)

Mmm yeah, of course that guy’s still alive somehow.

*loud groan of exhaustion and disgust* I KNEW they were gonna do that…okay. I’m KEEPING MY FINGERS CROSSED FOR THE BEST HERE

Okay. At LEAST the golem seems to have been created by Jewish characters. It wasn’t super clear in the opening scene

“Everybody loves bacon” is such a 2013 sentiment

This poor guy…just had defending against the nazi necromancers dumped on his lap with zero preparation

I feel for this dude. Not only did he ask for none of this, he also was kept from a lot of his specific heritage by his parents. It’s not his fault he’s kinda helpless

Not a huge fan of seeing the nazi take control (however temporarily) if the golem, but I guess you have to raise the stakes somehow…and Aaron DID get control back, with the Winchesters’ help, but he started the attack on the thule

“The Wedding of River Song”

Plot Description: The Doctor makes his final journey to the shores of Lake Silencio in Utah

(I made a mistake and took a nap this evening and then didn’t wanna do anything else)

Awww, Charlie Dickens!! Amazing they brought him back at all/any rtd era character

The way this version of the universe is so fucking weird but I like it anyway.

Yeah, of course Moffat wrote this one. A woman is to blame for stopping time completely

Do we ever actually find out what THE question is? The FIRST question? The one that must never be answered

I’m not super familiar with the Brigadier but I’m still feeling a pang at his passing, even if it’s just in universe (I truly don’t know if that’s true)

…he replaced himself with the robot with miniaturized people on it. Right? I get that we have two actual Rivers

This episode of DW is the opposite of yesterday’s spn. Instead of a guy from the past coming to 2013 scoffing at that present, we have Winston Churchill making snide remarks to the Doctor about if he has heard of downloads

I never realized how ace-coded the Doctor can be til he told Rory that Amy called him “Mister Hottie” and would like to go out for “texting and scones”

The way she’d rather destroy all of time than kill him. It IS touching

Istg if either Amy or Rory die due to this….stop. No. Stop. You can’t kill Rory AGAIN. Oh good…Amy saves him with a machine gun. Give Karen Gillan All the Weapons Challenge 2k23

It……it IS weird they Amy tried to hook up with the Doctor all that time ago and now she’s his mother in law

Is THE question REALLY the fucking show title or are we gonna get something better than that?

(Realizing I don’t have long til the 50th anniversary special…like…by the end of next month, I think I’ll have watched it)

[deans-haunted-baby]

Okay I see there are those who are confused as to why most of us are pissed about 15x19 I will gladly explain in depth:

Let’s start off with our boys Adam Milligan & Michael. These characters have not been seen for 10 fucking years. During that time there were Adam stans like myself campaigning like mad to have him and the infamous archangel return for some much needed closure. We had to content ourselves with headcanons, fanfictions and metas based on what we briefly knew of Adam and Michael as people while they unfairly sat in Hell. You might have seen the “Adam’s Still in Hell” memes that circulated. WE WAITED OVER A DECADE FOR THIS. And finally SPN answers our prayers and returns these boys back into the story for the final season. None of us anticipated what their arc and dynamic would look like. Before we could only imagine who these two characters were/are after having been trapped in a cage so long; what their personalities would be like and if they’d be antagonistic to TFW. 15x08 was a surprise because not only were Adam and Michael likable right out of the gate but the writing for them and their dynamic was damn near flawless! And Jake fucking stole the show he killed it as these two. It’s a crime they were not featured in more episodes because the chemistry between these characters is amazing and they’re played by the same dude.

We were given so much background into both Adam and Michael’s psyches in just a short period of time. Their motivations, interests and how they viewed those that wronged them (like the Winchesters); how Hell affected/changed them both and how they viewed their families. We got to see them banter, cooperate with one another and most importantly their different personalities. With Jake Abel appearing in only a handful of SPN episodes, he still fleshed out Michael and Adam beautifully; giving them layers and complexities that most side-characters (who’ve appeared more times than they have) didn’t. The way Jake played Adam’s anger and resentment towards his brothers was brilliant because it’s more under the surface compared to his angsty teenage self in 5x18. He’d become somewhat restrained, laid-back, gentler and wiser which works because Adam displays traits similar to Sam and Dean. He’s kinder and has a sense of humor but none of that distracts from rational thought as he’s quick to analyze and dissect situations. Man, he would’ve made a great hunter/Men of Letters recruit. We know right off the bat Adam’s pissed at his brothers for abandoning him in a thousand-year-prison-sentence and didn’t lift a finger BUT that ironically doesn’t compromise his willingness to help them unlike his past self in 5x18. Jake gets the point across with this character without saying much and that’s what made him so compelling to watch in this episode.

Now Michael was even more of a mystery onion since he wasn’t onscreen as much as Adam had been in past episodes so Jake got to really build on top of this character. Going from the uptight, cold-blooded merciless celestial warrior/dutiful son of God we saw in 5x22 to someone whom despite his arrogance and regal princely demeanor was very human, intelligent, fair, mindful and compassionate. He trusted Adam and respected his opinions even if he didn’t agree 100%. Whereas most angels take over the vessel completely from their original occupant; Michael chooses to share his vessel with Adam as a mutual agreement which says a lot about who he is. He’s fascinated with humanity and wanted to explore it instead of returning to his throne in the clouds. We know that Michael was created specifically to be Humanity’s protector and guardian of Heaven and Earth so these quirks he’d demonstrated in 15x08 aren’t too far off. He holds a lot of pain inside from his abandonment issues with his father whom he loves to a fault and grief over the death of his brothers. On the surface there’s very much an abused child syndrome thing going on with him though he masks it with a domineering presence. And above all this we saw that he was capable of forgiveness. Whether or not Michael always had these traits inside to begin with, its very evident that his friendship with Adam influenced the person he became post-Hell. And that was someone who, like Castiel, chose to rebel for the sake of free will by aligning himself with the Winchesters after witnessing the evil his father had committed. He actually cared about saving the world. This is what we call character development.

What does 15x19 do? It shits all over that. We don’t get to see Adam and Michael’s dynamic at all; and this was perhaps one of (if not the first) most healthy portrayal of a relationship between an angel and its original vessel occupant in the history of Supernatural. Adam is just killed off-screen Thanos style without so much as one last word and Michael barely reacts like he gives a crap. It was just established to us in 15x08 that he’d developed an emotional bond with Adam through years of inhabiting the same body. He protected Adam while they were trapped together in Hell. They were each other’s only friend and source of comfort. They’d developed a certain co-dependency on each other while respecting one another’s space. They’d both made peace with their joint situation. All they had was each other and the writing in 15x19 basically tells us their relationship meant absolutely NOTHING to Michael based on his OOC actions in this episode. He shows up much darker and shadier now that Adam is gone and its like all those years of friendship, things like that independence, newfound strength and humility he’d gained from living with a human for so long are erased. Michael just reverts back to Chuck’s 5x22 bitchboy persona in the most ridiculous 180 shift I’ve ever seen in my whole damn life. And all because his little brother called him mean names. Pitiful. Just when he lectures Lucifer about standing up for what’s right; he betrays his own words, his allies and the rest of humanity in T-minus 2 minutes. That is total character assassination. Nothing about this motivation makes any sense.

There’s no build up to it, no foreshadowing in 15x08 or throughout 15x19 until they get to the lake. He’s completely deconstructed as a character in this episode and rendered weak. It’s like 15x08 never happened. Stripped of all his development for lousy shock value. Instead utilizing all of what he’d learned through Adam and sticking it to Lucifer by proving he could be more than what Chuck tried to mold him into; Michael becomes just another NPC in the story forfeiting the hero he was. And his reasons for siding with Chuck are never specified. Was it about about saving Adam? Was it about proving something to Lucifer (whom he’d already killed in anti-climatic fashion)? Was it all an act that he was in on with the Winchesters; cause there’s absolutely NO FUCKING WAY they could’ve predicted he’d flip on them like that for their magical plan to work. Not after everything Chuck’s done, killing Adam and Jack and leaving Michael to rot in Hell for eternity. And why would he suddenly go along with destroying the Earth when defeating Chuck would probably get Adam back (if that was his goal) which IT DID not to mention its his sworn duty to freaking protect humanity, hello? So his betrayal meant jack shit in the end as it got him killed by his fucking dad!! He’s brought back into the show only to be ruined forever and killed off in the stupidest fashion.

Moving on.

Jack Kline & Castiel. This iron-clad relationship has been in development for 4 in 1/2 years since before Jack was even born. And next to Adam & Michael its the other most healthy relationship on the show. Castiel, a million year old celestial being, spent the first 9 years of his arc on Supernatural following around the Winchesters, being torn between his loyalty to them and to Heaven. He rebelled when he was supposed to be a straight-by-the-book warrior of God. And he defied every rule in the process even when the odds were stacked against him. There was an endless rinse and repeat cycle of love, loss, betrayal and redemption when it came to his relationship with Sam and Dean. It made his character complex, interesting and layered but it still didn’t give him an arc that was his own. Castiel started out moreso being written as just the Winchester’s angel BFF/side-kick. Until Lucifer got Kelly Kline pregnant in 12x08 then things really took off. Before this, Castiel was a lost soul. His faith was broken, he was depressed, lonely, battered and rundown from years of being conflicted over the other angels and Sam & Dean. He felt he’d lost a sense of self and meaning in his life. And didn’t have a mission. Once he turned on Heaven’s orders, Castiel was a rebel angel without a cause so to speak. But like I said this changes the moment he meets Kelly.

Originally Castiel was suppose to kill Kelly in 12x19 because she was carrying the child of the devil and Nephilim are considered forbidden abominations. Told that if Lucifer’s kid was born he could unleash even more evil into the world. But instead of doing what he thought he should, Castiel decides to runaway with her. Choosing to protect her from all threats (Lucifer, demons, other angels, princes of Hell); this especially included the Winchesters. During this short time-frame the angel develops a strong, emotional bond with Kelly and her unborn son that stretches all the way to the S12 finale; to the point where it actually gave him a power-boost. From the womb, Jack appoints Castiel to be his father and protector and he’s given a glimpse into the child’s destiny that he’ll bring paradise to the world. A prophecy that the writers establish head on. This is an unusual circumstance because right here is where Castiel’s solo arc apart from the Sam & Dean takes shape. The journey of becoming a first time parent and guardian. Its a new kind of independence that for the first time has nothing to do with his friends or his family members/colleagues in the sky. Its his own personal mission that he willingly accepts, the second he connects with Jack from inside Kelly. Castiel immediately falls in love with him, before they even see each other; and adopts the boy devoting himself to keeping him safe. Making a promise to Kelly that would later become a vital plot-point in the seasons to come.  

Castiel literally risks everything (Heaven and Earth) to ensure Jack’s birth and ends up dead by 12x23′s startling conclusion. Leaving the newborn infant Nephilim alone in the care of the Winchesters going into season 13; scared, confused and aged into a seemingly 18 year old boy for his own protection. And Alexander Calvert who is a fantastic addition to the cast really brings something wonderful to this role; he’s like a breath of fresh air and a bright light in the middle of a dark room. Jack’s naïve, innocent and curious about his surroundings but also as Castiel once put it “remarkably intuitive”. Right when he’s introduced his arc is intentionally paralleled with Castiel’s. Their alien-fish-out-of-water beginning is practically identical as is their adorable stoic facial expressions. Like father like son. And this helps because while the angel is currently dead in the beginning of season 13, there’s an empty void he’s left behind. So Jack is kind of his temporary stand-in. Odd enough this type of switcharoo would’ve been considered very controversial but it’s handled quite well. Alex is so likable and charming I almost wish Supernatural had introduced him sooner. I mean I really thought I was looking at Castiel’s actual mini-me and not the son of Satan. But I digress Jack’s story in the first half of this season is pretty much about discovery and reuniting with Castiel. He’s a baby so everything is new to him but he’s also one of the most powerful beings in the universe destined for greatness which makes the Winchesters very nervous.

Jack remembers choosing Castiel as his dad which is why he already feels strongly connected to him. Its a bond so powerful that it actually resurrects Castiel out of the Empty the first time. Something Chuck himself was unable to do (that was until the mess that is 15x19). When they’re finally reunited the payoff comes so naturally. Misha and Alex have such a phenomenal onscreen chemistry starting with that first hug; they really play off one another so well that it doesn’t feel like two angels interacting but a genuine father and son duo. So much of what makes Jack and Castiel’s relationship so relatable, deep and endearing is because of what the actors bring to it. But they’re not just a fascinating relationship, they’re compelling on their own too. Both trying to find their way in the world and within the Winchesters’ lives. Death is no stranger to either of them (tragic being that Jack is only a toddler). They’ve each experienced their own personal pain, traumas, life lessons, mistakes and decisions. The biggest for Castiel would be his deal with the Empty to save Jack in 14x08. While for Jack it was the consequences of said deal that would lose his soul causing him to accidently kill Sam and Dean’s mom in 14x18 as a result (something that Jack struggles with immensely to the brink of depression from so much guilt and regret that he’d rather die). Repercussions that would follow into the shows final season. What’s interesting about this deal though is that Castiel made it on parental instinct alone not as a promise to Kelly. He chose to sacrifice himself for the sake of his son as a selfless act of love and kept it a secret from Sam & Dean until his death in 15x18. That’s the extent how much this child meant to him. The other great thing about their family dynamic is that it parallels nicely with the Winchesters. Castiel and Jack share this unconditional love that can never be broken. its even greater than their ties to the Winchesters themselves just as Sam & Dean’s love for each other is greater than any of their other relationships. They would do anything for each other. Castiel would go to the ends of the earth for the little nougat baby because that’s his son.  

Each time these characters were faced with danger or died, Castiel and Jack were overcome with extreme devastation and distress. That said its not just pain that binds these two its happiness. Jack is the best thing that ever happened to Castiel. Literally becoming a father to that child saved him. It brought him back to life, restored his faith and gave him a sense of self-worth and hope he’d long since abandoned. And for Jack, Castiel is the best dad he’ll ever have! He gave this baby comfort, wisdom, nurturing, strength. Was always there when he needed him whether it was to talk or to have his back. No other person in Jack’s life has ever made such an important impact nor made him feel more safe and loved than Castiel. Even when Jack had done such a horrible thing to Mary alienating himself from his family; it was Castiel’s unyielding devotion to Jack that ended up being his salvation. This was huge because once again he’d chosen over the Winchesters proving that no matter what (whether it be the world ending) his son comes first. So when Castiel’s pact with the Empty finally comes due in 15x18 you’d think it’d have an earth-shattering affect on Jack in 15x19. I mean for the first bit it does...until he becomes God. Then its like to hell with that relationship. Castiel is a complete afterthought to Jack and the rest of TFW in this episode. JACK DOESN’T EVEN GET TO GRIEVE HIM PROPERLY. And he just lost his dad because of a deal he’d made a year ago for him. A DEAL JACK HAS BEEN FUCKING DREADING WHILE HE WAS SOULLESS MIND YOU. And when he finally has the power to bring him back, he doesn’t? Jack just walks around with a conceited smirk on his face, bids Sam and Dean adieu and fucks off. I mean who gives a shit right, its only your dad that you love more than anything. This was extremely OOC given that time in 14x14 Jack nearly lost his shit when Castiel got infected with gorgon poison; the anti-venom wasn’t working so Jack resorts to using his powers putting his soul at risk.

I mean if he was so limited to helping Castiel in the Empty AT LEAST FREAKING CLARIFIY THIS TO THE AUDIENCE. This is not about shipping a certain pairing btw. Jack becoming God is not the issue its his characterization after the fact. His first instinct would’ve been to save his dad above getting in touch with the Earth. Yes we knew this transformation was coming it was foreshowed way back in Season 12. Does that justify bad writing or character assassination?? HELL NO.

This is what I’m talking about, episode 15x19 deliberately butchers these characters and their relationships. It shat all over them. No one is behaving like themselves. The pacing is wonky and inconstant. The script feels like it underwent several rewrites and I swear there were scenes cut out. The acting is off too and maybe the pandemic could be blamed for these things but it ultimately falls on the writer. Buckleming screwed up by showing us they don’t know who the hell these characters are, their motivations nor do they give a rat’s ass. And its noticeable on screen. I’ve known better fanfiction writers for SPN than these guys. It’s like they all came back to work but just didn’t care to put the effort into it. That’s why people like me are upset and we have every freaking right to be. Some of us have been with this series for the entire 15 year run. I at least expect these characters to be handled better and for things to make sense. 15x19 doesn’t and its not satisfying its just a cruel joke. The writers and Dabb should be embarrassed to have put this out there thinking we’d just swallow it and shut up. But far as I’m concerned the only thing this episode serves is to disrespect and ruin everybody while angering long-time fans.

MICHAEL. ADAM MILLIGAN. JACK KLINE AND CASTIEL DESERVED BETTER. And that’s the tea.

[roublardise]

I love the idea of Amara and what she adds - and could have add - to the whole convo about Chuck's creation but mostly about family. Amara is the Darkness, she's Destruction ; while Chuck is the Light, he's Creation.

I don't think it makes sense that Chuck is still able to destroy but just can't do a « full reboot ». I'd love for Chuck to be actually stuck with creations he thinks as flawed. The fact he has to caged Lucifer, put Amara away, keeps creating new world, plays into this view. However we can see Chuck turns people into dust just bc – I'd love for him to not be able to even do that. The balance would be, well, more balanced. But that's not my point here lmao.

In s11 Amara shows up and doesn't straight away destroy everything – imo people assume she will just bc, but she's just vibing.

She brings nuance & adds a lot into the "Chuck as a villain" plot

"What they call destruction, I call it renovation." She tells Rowena. When Dean raises "his universe, his rules" Amara brings "what if there are no rules ?"

Chuck is Light, he's Creation, but he's also Rules, he's Order – just look at Heaven. Amara is Darkness, she's Destruction, she's Chaos, she's Disorder.

And I'm obsessed with introducing her in that way and then turning around and seeing Chuck as the villain. Disorder or Darkness don't have to be a bad thing. The idea of no-rules being dangerous has been created by Chuck – and it feeds into the whole "Chuck lies about Amara to fit his narrative ; she was never a threat to his world, she was just his equal and he wanted to be the Most Powerful" that we learn about in late s11.

She's a threat to Chuck, because even in Chuck's world, they can chose to not follow the rules - they still have free will - and Amara is trying to show them that. While Chuck is desperate to keep his control over his story.

Amara is Destruction, but she's amazed at every one of Chuck's creation ; she wanders on Earth and appreciates trees and flowers and fashion and her human body.

What she has an issue with is the blueprint - "my blueprints" she seeks.

As a cosmic being Amara sees the big picture, that's what she thinks are fucked up – the rules, the Order.

I won't push my anarchist Amara too much here, but I wanna focus on what it tells us about familyspecifically.

Family itself as been presented as a social order with rules in spn. John is introduced as a commander, Dean's a soldier to him. A lot of spn is about desobeying the father, and they made Chuck the Ultimate Absent Father with all the parallels with Cas and Heaven. Angels are soldiers, but they're also brothers, they're family. The lines between family & army are blurred. Because family is, in the same way, an institution of power.

Amara is a threat to Chuck's blueprint, to his social order, to his rules and systems he can't dismantle – not completely. On a more personal level, she's a threat to family.

And how interesting would it have been for TFW to see her as a threat for their family, only to realize she was just highlighting how the nuclear family was a lie, was a trap – hence bringing back Mary to show Dean it would've never worked the way he was taught to believe it would, they way he was taught to believe it could.

But then learning (learning from each others, Amara not having expected Mary to still bring something to Dean's life) that it could be better, it could be real, they could go against Chuck's rules even inside Chuck's world.

And then you got an arc about reappropriating family, making it about smth bigger, chosen family & found family. Family don't end in blood. All that shit. It would have SLAPPED is what I'm saying.

Amara doesn't understand the idea of family ; and TFW teaches her, shows her. Amara doesn't get what's the deal with the words "father", and "mother", and "siblings", and everything. She's been coparented by Dean and Crowley, but she doesn't see them as her dads, because she doesn't understand the dynamic.

She can't call them dads, or her fathers, without implying she's given them some sort of control over her. She calls Crowley "uncle" both bc she gets all the terms mixed up, and because Dean told her to - to mess up with Crowley (divorced dynamic). Chuck would tell her they're siblings, but she's frowning bc she doesn't get it – she didn't grow up with Chuck, they don't have parents, it doesn't fit. She calls Lucifer her nephew but it's sarcastic, it's smug, it's a joke, because he doesn't mean anything to her.

But she learns to get family, as caring for people. She gets being close to them, making a spot for them into your life, putting up with their shit and supporting them. She gets allowing people to impact your own life without sacrificying your own free will. That – she learns to get.

[ywhiterain]

can you at least read in a third grade level

"Again and again, the show validates "found family" as a bond that is just as important, loving, and valuable (if not more so) as biological or 'blood' family."

Legacy, Hazel Domain

Supernatural is a horror story about family. The family you find is one element of the overall theme of 'family' that the narrative explores from time to time in a 300+ episode series. But it's pretty silly to think it's a story about found family or that found family ever has a much narrative focus as the bond between Sam and Dean. It goes back to Michael and Lucifer, Cain and Abel, Chuck and Amara.

The aspect of family supernatural was most concerned with was the one between siblings. Particularly between Sam and Dean. SPN was many a weird things with inconsistency across the board. Except for the fact that it was a story about Sam and Dean, their love that brought the world to the brink of destruction before saving it together, again and again.

"After all those 15 years "we understand you, our SPN family, Keep on fighting, and stuff," this was all just bullshit. They didn't just make bad ending, they destroyed 15 years of fandom experiences, told us it was all nothing. That wasn't sincere."

A quote from a anonymous fan in Legacy, Hazel Domain

How?

Look, the community Destiel shippers built didn't go anywhere. Well, communities, really. The things you did, the money you raised, the air you created, the home you made, the family that you found. It started out with a shared interested in a TV show. Themes you found resonated with you. But it did grow into something more. Because that's what fandom does. That's why fandom is so great. It's why it's always existed and will always exist in some way.

Supernatural made bank off of the #SPNFamily brand, but the grassroots. The heart of it all. That doesn't belong to the CW or J2 or any writer or show runner. It belongs to you.

I get what it's like when an ending of a story you really cared about lets you down. Believe me, I do. Anyone whose been in fandom long enough is going to have at least one horror story about a story that broke their hearts in a way that changed them forever.

Sometimes you let that story go. Sometimes you reclaim it with your own reading and ignore the stupid ass decisions that fucked it up (did you know The Vampire Dairies ended at season six and Elena's still a vampire? There are liars who say it went on two more years and she became human again, ignore them). Sometimes you come back to and it's still flawed but it also has the beauty you always loved and you create a new relationship with it.

But the community you belonged to goes way beyond Supernatural as a text. Don't give it up because it ended in a way you hated. And don't give me crap about how things suddenly changed after the finale ended and it broke fandom.

My sympathy ends here.

Because Supernatural was never a big happy family with a unified vision of what the show was. It's always been fractured and filled with wank and high minded discourse. Rewriting fandom history to justify being victimized and traumatized by how a TV show ended is mockable at best and grifting at worst.

[and-stir-the-stars]

I posted 4,243 times in 2021

915 posts created (22%)

3328 posts reblogged (78%)

For every post I created, I reblogged 3.6 posts.

I added 1,552 tags in 2021

#spn - 540 posts

#castiel - 463 posts

#jack kline - 83 posts

#dadstiel - 83 posts

#sam winchester - 73 posts

#spn angels - 70 posts

#asks - 69 posts

#sastiel - 59 posts

#<3 - 57 posts

#:) - 55 posts

Longest Tag: 140 characters

#jack was harming no one (not on purpose at least. certainly not when dean was about to kill him-- jack kneeled to the ground in submission!)

My Top Posts in 2021

#5

shots of Sam to be normal about...

202 notes • Posted 2021-11-27 03:00:25 GMT

#4

ya know who I need to see an interaction between?? 

Donna Noble and Castiel. 

I want them to talk about bees together. I want Cas to listen intently as Donna rants about her co-workers. I want Donna to find out he’s an angel and can go invisible, and her first response is “can you do me a favor and put on your harry potter cloak to help me find out who’s stealing my lunches from the office fridge? I bet it’s Maurice.”

 I want Donna to realize that Cas is lonely and feels like he’s just a tool, and I want Donna to call him up one day and be like “Can you believe this? I accidentally bought two gallons of ice cream! What a dunce; I can’t eat two gallons of ice cream by myself! Oh, stop it, I know you don’t eat, but come over here and help me anyway. We can watch that new movie on the telly while we’re at it,” and then they just,, have movie nights and eat ice cream and gossip at least once a week. 

I want Cas to realize how lowly Donna thinks of herself, and I want him to pick up how much her mother influences this thinking, and one day Cas just scrounges up all of his Intimidating Angel of the Lord-iness to make sure Donna’s mother knows how important and beautiful and amazing Donna is. 

243 notes • Posted 2021-07-20 21:17:03 GMT

#3

was a filler episode of supernatural filled with dadstiel and absolutely no plot/angst really that much to ask for? huh? can’t a fan watch 40 minutes of Jack and Cas going to build a bear work shop and visiting Pluto and walking dogs in an animal shelter? Without having to see them struggling with the need to be useful to (aka killing themselves for) the Winchesters or worrying about death of victims on cases or worrying about whatever BBEG was starring in the season? We couldn’t have gotten an episode of Cas accidentally stumbling upon the angel version of catnip and drunkenly telling Jack all about his pre-series life in the garrison and Jack going on about TikTok and fandoms and memes? We couldn’t have gotten dadstiel playing minecraft together, with Jack making all these impressive builds and Cas accidentally destroying them because he doesn’t understand the mechanics of the controls or that creepers blow up if you try to hug them? was that so much to ask for? 

368 notes • Posted 2021-07-18 02:07:18 GMT

#2

the fact that I can look up "movies/shows with canon aromantic characters" and not get a single answer.

It's all "this character shows signs of aromanticism" or "here's a character that people headcanon as aro."

Like I'm sorry but that's not good enough?? I want a character who says the words "I'm aromantic." I want a character whose identity is talked about and explored. I want characters who struggle with their aromanticism, and I want characters who start the series/movie who are already comfortable with who they are. I want characters with aromanticism that is important in the context of their show/movie, and I want a variety of different aromantic experiences to be shown.

Obviously headcanoned rep is amazing and I'm glad to have it, but having just hc rep alone without any canon, well-developed rep in the context of the show/movie is not enough. I don't want to feel like I'm desperately grasping at straws or like I'm not worthy of direct representation when I think about the character being aro.

1184 notes • Posted 2021-11-13 13:58:38 GMT

#1

The absolute worst thing about supernatural is that there was never a point where Dean taped a "kick me" sign onto Sam's back, and Castiel later saw the sign and was very confused by it but ultimately decided to trust Sam's judgment and so kicked Sam as hard as he could

3660 notes • Posted 2021-10-11 21:32:24 GMT

Get your Tumblr 2021 Year in Review →

[demenior]

Dem’s Big Post About The Spn Fics Part 1/2

aka The Wrap Up to celebrate To Exist Again and To Become a Man now being finished!

(This will be a long post. This is your only warning.)

Admittedly this is a bit of a weird thing to be doing, but I wanted to try it out for 3 reasons: 

I love talking about my own work and 

It functions really well as a self-reflective tool for me to improve on, and 

I can answer some big questions people might have because there was a LOT of worldbuilding in these stories. 

We’ll start off with reflective stuff, and move into the juicier world-building focused stuff later into the post. There will be major spoilers for both fics to come!

To begin with a funny anecdote, Why Did I Write These Stories?

I was beginning to write and work out the story that I wanted to write for Spn (what will now be To Destroy a Man. As I was writing the scene, I realized I had a LOT of ideas and while I was trying to avoid as much exposition as I could, it became quickly apparent that I was needing to create my own au (this scene eventually became chapter 34 of To Become a Man). A short prequel seemed like a good idea, to quickly hash out the ‘prior’ events that I needed to go through so all the readers could be on the same page. While plotting out prequel points, I realized Sam and Dean were going to have drastically different experiences during the same time period, and I was trying to figure out who’s pov would be better for which scenes, and how to keep momentum when they’re going through such radically different types of changes. Ultimately I decided to split their povs, which I also thought would be a fun project! And I naively assumed each pov would take about 2 chapters each, rounding out to maybe 15k total.

I had my ending points: Dean n Cas soul-merged and (basically) married, Cas on the lam from heaven and a complete anomaly, and Sam juiced up full of powers and a weird mix of archangel and antichrist but still 100% human and ready to fight God. 

Now I needed to add weight to these changes, so I wrote 200k of build-up.

Am I proud of these fics?

OF COURSE I AM!!! These are the longest fics I’ve ever written AND finished AND in the fastest freakin turnaround ever (both were finished writing, barring edits, in like 6 months holy shit)

I didn’t write a single scene that I “didn’t” want to write. If I had trouble writing it, as in it was fighting me, I scrapped it. Most obviously was the scene in Dean’s pov where he and Sam were intended to meet some other hunters and Dean declines working with them because he’s nervous about being outed as queer. It was meant to be a good scene! I wanted to introduce some new characters! But it just wasn’t working so I said ‘thank you, next!’. 

But it means this story was an absolute joy to write. Because for a while all I was doing was ‘if I wanted to write one scene into supernatural, what would I write?’ and then just DID that!! It’s why there’s a lot of ‘Salmondean do dumb shit or have really dumb heartfelt conversations’ scenes.

Would I change anything?

If I’d been less eager to start sharing, I might have planned out the story beats a little tighter so there were less ‘soft’ chapters and a draw/pull for people to come back and keep reading. I felt Dean’s story specifically lagged at points and could have used some tighter editing (there was a noticeable lull in directed movement between Dean n Cas getting together, until Sam corrupts Amy).

I also probably would have held Sam’s story until I’d finished Dean’s so I could make the two line up better! Probably could have inserted more scenes into Sam’s fic that way, and made sure things were a little more consistent. In an ideal world one concept I had was to release 1 chapter from each pov every week that would correspond to the same time frame so we’d be getting real-time SalmonDean pov narrative. Unfortunately that didn’t work!

The biggest takeaway overall is for me to focus more on what moves the plot, and to make my scenes do more than 1 thing so I can cut down on wordcount and increase my efficiency. 

Of course every writer will find things they want to fix in anything they’ve ever written, so these are minor “mistakes” at best. I’m so dang proud of these fics. 

Onto more interesting things!

How Did I Put These Fics Together (because it’s different than anything I’ve ever done before)

Normally when I write a story, I plan out the beats I need to hit, see where I need to insert any kind of foreshadowing/buildup, and then write from A to B to C and so on and so forth. Hence, this is why I can normally post things as I complete chapters, because it’s all a linear progression. 

For these two stories, rather than linear plot/a normal story structure, I just sat and free-wrote any and every scene that came to mind and then pieced them into a kinda-linear form like putting a quilt together. You’ll note that this is why there’s not a lot of internal callback or a feeling of sense of time flowing within the fic (save for points where I went back and specifically edited it in). How long does the story take place over? Hard to say! Your author has the barest grasp on linear time even on a good day (how many times did I say ‘see you on [wrong day]’ at the end of chapters lmaaoooo)

This also meant EXTENSIVE editing on the back end once I decided in what order I wanted my ‘quilt pieces’ to be. Hard to say if this is a bonus or a negative!

But I did want to try and capture the vibe of the lives they lead, as a bit of a ‘slice of life’-style story, when the slice of life is the profound weirdness of the Winchester roaming life, and how things are status quo- until everyone almost dies oh shit!! And then they have to keep living because no therapy we die/undie like Winchesters. Do I think I captured this effectively? Hmm. Good question. 

Dem where the FUCK did the inspiration for a lot of the magic and creature weirdness even come from?

Honestly? Music, primarily. And completely mishearing lyrics!

Nightwish ‘Ever Dream’: the line is ‘my song can but borrow you grace’ and because my brain is scrambled eggs on a good day, I heard ‘grace’ ‘song’ and ‘borrow’ in that order and have had, for YEARS, the mental image of Cas borrowing Dean’s soul to power himself up for battle.

From there I’ve always been enamored with the ‘wavelength of celestial intent’ descriptor that Cas drops in s6 for “what he is”. 

I also really like ocean metaphors mostly because I’ve been obsessed with the ocean and things in it since I was like… 5??? So really this was me just rolling with what I know lmao. I love using (somewhat) accurate scientific metaphors for very intangible things!

I was also finishing my degree in biology/ecology while writing these fics and I think it shows

Stars ‘The Night Starts Here’ gives us the series title and the fic titles. Except for ‘To Exist Again’. TEA was almost titled ‘The Upwards Fall’ because I wanted all 3 of the Main Stories to have titles from this song, but I couldn’t make anything else work in tandem with the series name ‘The Love It Takes’ while also working for Sam’s personal story. So Sam, as always, is the rebel <3

Stars ‘Up In Our Bedroom, After The War’ is basically the vibes of the whole story. TFW has been, literally, to hell and back!!! There’s a bit of melancholy and sadness, a lingering dark, but the chance of a bright new tomorrow and a soft start.

Let’s Talk About Themes in The Story! What were you looking to accomplish? 

My earliest notes for TFW are, as follows:

Dean’s journey of self-discovery (who am I when I’m not trying to be Dad?)

Dean wants to settle down! He wants a big family! He wants to be domestic!

Basically: Dean doesn’t want to have a short life of hunting. He wants to live!

Dean’s journey of realizing he’s bi, and him accepting that

Dean’s relationship to Sam is both older brother/parent 

And continuing Dean balancing these roles while also letting Sam be an adult 

Dean’s Big Issues/Fears about never being good enough for people to want to stay with him (these are effectively highlighted in that Cas thinks he’s not useful enough to be wanted)

Sub Plot:

Castiel’s autonomy

Cas’ fall from grace, to trying to restore Heaven, to wrecking it further

He’s majorly depressed by the end of s7 (before purgatory)

Wants to stay in Purgatory but doesn’t tell Dean

Remains depressed after leaving, but resolved to keep living on because he’s clearly meant for something

After the seraphim reveal: does he have free will?! How does he grapple with this? How does he live in a way he can be proud of?

And lastly

Sam gets his powers back CAUSE THATS HOT

where tf did they go????

he got them from Lucifer?????

sleeper agent??????

Sam is The Chosen One

Accepts that he is More Than Human and to celebrate all parts of him

Lucifer and Sam friends?? Work together????

Sam needs autonomy in his choices/his life

If you compare these to the overall arc of TFW within the two stories, I think I got a lot of them! But you’ll also note a lot of these things aren’t concrete goals that are easily measurable (ex: Dean wants to learn to bake pie. In chapter 1 he starts a fire in the kitchen. By the end of the story he finally makes A Good Pie.) part of the lack of concrete milestones was why I felt it was important to tell Dean (and Cas’) story by going back to the point they meet, in s4! Dean’s gradual change towards his feelings for Cas, his relationship to Sam (heavily influenced by the s7 events of this fic) and then his own relationship with himself were such slow burns that I felt it would be a disservice to try and cram a change like that into a timeline like “1 year”.

I felt like these subtle changes and adjustments actually felt a lot truer to life-- people often change in very small, gradual ways over time, even without realizing it and often times not consistently! If only we could all gain skills like the sims, where we can easily level up and remain at that high level of performance! 

So the Guy Who Ate Satan, A Celestial Nuke that Developed Sentience, and Dean walk into a bar…

Sam’s story in Spn The Show has always been a ‘chosen one’ kind of narrative. Sam is living with one foot in the realm of the monsters, and I wanted to bring that back full force! It really makes sense for him that he should only continue to grow in power, might, and magic!! As the story progresses.

Cas also got a power up! I do desperately love in the show that he was kind of a grunt/nothing angel, and so even when he defected to TFW he was a huge help for them, but in the scale of things he was an annoying fly to most other angels. It really worked for the underdog story of s4/5. In this I wanted to give him a power up, and originally it was actually going to be close contact with Sam that eventually changed Cas into something unknown (you can still see traces of this in ch34 of TBAM, where Death remarks ‘Castiel could be [Sam’s] first creation’. But for a combo of reasons: how Sam’s magic needed to have intent, the entire concept of free will and consent, and how much I wanted Dean and Cas to have their effect on each other, I decided to go with the route that Cas has actually always been something angel-adjacent rather than becoming something new. TFW/Supernatural has always been about free will and making your own story, so I amplified that with Cas.

Dean has always been A Normal Guy, which is part of the appeal of him and Sam (2 normal dudes!) taking on the Very Not Normal. As explained above, Sam’s story is ‘normal guy finds out he’s the chosen one’ and so, in a story about very large concepts and huge monsters and acts of magic, I felt it was very important to keep Dean as normal as possible. To the point it became a running gag to me, personally, in that ‘no matter what cool shit happens around him, Dean has to stay as Just A Guy’. And it’s a very humanizing role that allows the story to have the scale it does!

What were the most important themes in your story?

Sam’s Autonomy

I wasn’t even going to include the plot about Lucifer’s death in this story— that was going to come up in a later story, actually! And rather than Sam having ate Lucifer, the original idea was that they’d become a SamandLucifer entity (this harkens back to a concept I wanted to write when Swan Song first aired). 

That storyline would have involved a lot of mental ‘Sam and Lucifer discuss what it means to live, which one of them is more worthy of life and if they do deserve to destroy the world for the pain they’ve been forced to go through, just to create the dichotomy of good and evil for everyone else’ discussions. There would be a lot of talk about how Sam hates and fears Lucifer for the pain Lucifer put on Sam, how Lucifer hates Sam because he and Sam are the same but Sam’s brother loves him anyways, etc. 

Ultimately that was scrapped because Sam’s entire story in the show is always about how the world and everyone around him manipulates him and that he never actually gets to make choices about his own life or body that aren’t influenced or part of someone elses’ design. And that always bothered me that Sam was never allowed to be himself without having to be ashamed of it, and I wanted to make sure that Sam’s triumph of being proud of himself/proudly choosing to exist (again) was evident in his story

In the end I needed Sam to have this visceral win over his tormentor. As the story shows, in this case Lucifer was abused and put into a position where he was incapable of empathy and could only express himself in violence. Sam even understands this! But it doesn’t change the fact that Lucifer tortured Sam in unimaginable ways for thousands of years. 

With that in mind I didn’t like the idea of Lucifer and Sam having “co-ownership” of their new identity, so I made the choice that Sam had to be the survivor. This tied in well with Sam’s new crusade to restore free will to the universe, because he’s breaking the narrative of his own story!

While Castiel wasn’t a pov character, his own autonomy and free will was equally as important. You’ll note that many, many paragraphs and conversations revolved around that theme and that in the end Cas followed himself (and love!) which ensured his freedom of self <3

The Brothers are WEIRD PEOPLE!!!! And Codependent to a Worrying Degree, but It’s Also How They Survive

It’s very hard to show “unusual” relationships when you’re writing from the pov of the two people who don’t think there’s anything weird about their relationship. Sure, they say ‘yeah it’s probably weird that we still share a bed’ but that’s kinda more in line with ‘I had a nightmare and I want to be close to the person who makes me feel safe’. Hashtag normalize co-sleeping when you need it!!!

From there I did try to point out how the boys have a weird perception of lifestyle in the little things they did. 

From thrifting everything from clothes to appliances to books (thrifting is a valid lifestyle! It’s incredibly handy when you’re on a budget.) 

To never actually having condiments or knowing how to use a dishwasher cause they’ve lived in a car, a motel room, or squatted in old houses their whole life.

I tried to have them wear each others’ clothes or casually swap things as much as possible. They live out of each others’ pockets!

Also the brothers are just weird people!! It’s hard to show from their pov, cause they don’t know how far off from normal they are, but like…

Everything about Sam and Amelia was NOT right like holy shit those two were wilding in their grief. They are very lucky things worked out for them and that they got to be hashtag Weird Girls together

Dean explicitly, in the story, gets horny after killing stuff!! Violence has done a number on his psyche and he’s gotten some wires crossed that maybe shouldn’t have been, or maybe could be worked out in a safe space but… uh… how likely do we think Dean is gonna go find a safe space to deal with any of his shit???

LOVE!!! Love is truly what this whole story is all about

If you’ve read the stories, you know how much emphasis I put on love. Love is the strongest force in the Spn Universe! It’s what averted the apocalypse and saved the world (Swan Song), it’s what created free will (Cas’ entire arc!) I love love!!!!

I went out of my way to not put any definitions on platonic love vs romantic love because I think love is love is love and how you express that is the difference. Neither is more powerful than the other because LOVE is powerful!! Sam and Cas are the most important people in Dean’s life and he loves them equally! He shows this by giving Cas kisses and stealing Sam’s socks.

It’s a personal pet peeve of mine when I have to hear explanations like ‘I love you, like a brother’ or ‘I love you, but like, as a friend because I’m a lesbian and you’re a man’ etc etc in media. If you have to continuously define how your characters love each other, then I don’t think you’re doing a good job of portraying their relationship. So you’ll see that I never put those parameters in any conversation. Dean DOES muse that he loves Cas differently than he loves Sam or Bobby, specifically because there is a romantic and sexual tone that his feelings for Cas takes, but not because he loves Cas more or less than he loves Sam or Bobby.

Which means, if you haven’t realized it yet, the Series + Fic Titles are meant to be a complete sentence because the power of love IS the thesis of this series:

The Love It Takes To Exist Again (Sam’s journey!)

The Love It Takes To Become a Man (Dean’s journey!)

The Love It Takes To Destroy a Man (TBA)

And now for fun stuff. Behind the scenes!!

What’s Something People Probably Don’t Know?

The demonic fungal/hydrothermal vent growth on Sam’s arm was thrown in literally as I was posting the chapter because I had just finished a 48 hour cram session of writing a report on tube worms for an ecology class (I was chanting my tube worm song as I wrote it) and it ended up being a HUGE hit with both readers and myself. But it was so last minute I had trouble fitting it in more throughout the rest of Sam’s story!

Cas’ orders? That may or may not have bound him to Dean and removed his free will? Were written into Sam’s story and I went ‘oh SHIT that’s compelling’ and then left them there as a ‘guess I’ll figure that out when I get to Dean’s story lol’

Originally Dean and Cas were supposed to get together after having their souls bonded, and have been in a UST limbo the entire time before that. Mostly because I think the entire concept of ‘we just got married of the soul I guess we should try dating?’ is very funny. CLEARLY the two of them were way more eager to fall in love than I anticipated (thank you Cas for your honesty) but you can still see shades of this original idea here and there (especially in ch35 of TBAM)

I never intended Dean and Benny to connect so well!! Benny was going to reunite with Andrea, she was going to live, and they were going to go off into the world and leave the story. And, uh, here we are. I’m still debating if I need to adjust the relationship tag or not haha. Polyamory is fun, especially when I was planning for Sam to be the polyamorous brother...

Speaking of, I can’t believe I forgot about Sam and his sexuality! If I rewrote TEA I would have had Sam contemplate more on his lack of sexual appetite due to trauma, up until he meets Benny and he gets to rediscover how he wants to be a sexual person

Many of Sam and Dean’s absolutely stupid sibling conversations were lifted near-verbatim from conversations I’ve had with my siblings

And lastly...

Dem where’s Kevin????????????? Where is our sweet baby boy????????

He’s SAFE!! He’s in the Hunter pipeline somewhere cause Sam handed him off to Bobby’s people. He and his mom are safe and at some point they probably got rib sigils like SalmonDean did against angels, but for demons. I didn’t have room in this story for him!!! But my baby boy is SAFE and I want to get him back to university because it’s WHAT HE DESERVES!!!!

To that point: god there were/are SO many characters that I just didn’t include in the story so far because I didn’t feel comfortable including them without stalling the story for them. To that point: pretty much everyone who is alive/dead in s8 is that way in this story, except Bobby who gets to live.

[Check Out Part 2 for reader questions!]

[laufire]

i want to hear more about the following wips: megstiel role reversal, lesbian mary, and all the kaia ones?

(from this list)

MEGSTIEL ROLE REVERSAL

The idea came from this anon’s prompt and it’s evolved into a series of prospective one-shots, each focusing on a different episode from s4-5 (not all of them, as I have little interesting in rewriting some of their plots. Just the ones where I’d get a lot out of Meg, Castiel, or their dynamic with each other).

They’ll be mostly from Meg’s or Castiel’s POVs, although Sam and Dean will have theirs here and there; for example, “The End” is from Dean’s POV. I considered starting 4x01 with his too, but lately I’m leaning towards Castiel’s, as he’s sort of another Lazarus in that one -I’ve made him a brand new demon (although he spent his sweet time in Hell before that), because I wanted to explore how that perspective could be, and as a contrast to Meg as this ancient creature who’s Seen It All.

I want to keep most of the AU choices I’ve made for this series to myself, at least for now, but a couple I don’t mind throwing in is that Crowley is the demon Castiel made his original deal with (I’ve posted a tiny snippet about it here), and that Ruby survives 4x22 (Castiel is not an angel and can’t send Dean to the convent, while Meg remains loyal to Heaven’s cause at least at that moment, so things go down a little differently).

LESBIAN MARY

This WIP was born due to my frustration with fandom’s utilitarian lesbian headcanons, especially when it comes to this fandom. They’re way too often solely to remove a female character from the shipping board. If it was more about the f/f pairing, there would be no reason not to make them bi if they canonically showed feelings for men, js. Plus frankly, it leaves a bad taste whenever I see specifically the Cool Lesbian, Seductress Of Men variant. A lesbian who sees themselves cornered into having to respond or use men’s attraction to her isn’t a Cool Story, it’s fucking tragic. And it just... bothers me that fandom takes lesbianism, something removed entirely from men, and makes it about men, and their ships. Ugh.

That thought process led me to think about the possibility of Mary being a lesbian, because there’s NO way to think about it as “cool”. It’s horrifying. It takes Heaven’s violation of her to another level. And it could be interesting, cathartic, and painful to explore in a fic.

My disappointment with her s12 plot further shaped the story. I’ll likely ignore a lot of the BMOL content because uhhhh. It sucked xD. So plot-wise, idk what I’ll do. It’ll be a more internally driven story, with Mary finding out about the cupids’ plot reclaiming that part of herself, figuring out what she and her sons are going to be to each other, learning about what happened in her absence, etc. Also, with 4x03 and 5x13′s actress in mind, because that’s who I’ll always see as my Mary, and I reiterate it would’ve been a lot more impactful when it came to her dynamics with her sons.

KAIA & KAIA TBP / RESURRECTED DARK KAIA

I’m putting these two together because it’s not unlikely they’ll be part of the same story, or at least the first and last parts of a series.

“Kaia & Kaia TBP” is about Dark Kaia nursing Kaia back to health et al, from the original Kaia’s POV and entirely canon-compliant, going roughly from 13x10 to 15x12 to encompass all the time we missed with her.

It’s also VERY likely that there’ll be an interlude between the two stories (15x12-15x19), with Claire and Kaia’s reunion, the two of them getting together and finding some balance, etc. In Claire’s POV.

“Resurrected Dark Kaia” is exactly how it sounds. Since Jack already brought back the people Chuck killed in their world, I don’t see how his god-like powers wouldn’t allow him to restore the destroyed alternate universes, that he also canonically worries about (Jack Ex Machina, my favourtie post-series plot device asñdlkfjaf). So Dark Kaia would be back, in her world, and the two Kaias would dreamshare again. I don’t know much yet about what happens next, but it’s in Dark Kaia’s POV.

DARK KAIA LIVES

Instead of needing to be resurrected, this time Kaia tries and convinces Dark Kaia to save herself and return with her. Reluctantly, she’s made a space in Sioux Falls as well, where both she and the rest will struggle with the situation. Lots of Claire-Kaia-Kaia shenanigans will occur. For now I’ve only written snippets in Claire’s POV (one where she and Kaia talk about the complications with Dark Kaia, and how both Kaias are the same, but not, but yes, but-; and another after the WS hear about Dean’s death which is... tense -Dark Kaia is NOT a fan lmao), but that might change.

WAYWARD SISTERS AU

This is probably the most ambitious one of all the above. It’s a “what could have been” story about exactly that -what Wayward Sisters as a show could’ve developed like. I want it to follow a structure similar to an actual show: chapters as episodes with their own monster of the week, a “seasonal” plot (firstly, Claire’s search to find who “killed” Kaia), etc. Being VERY ambitious, it’ll cover the remaining SPN canon, maybe a bit more, while likely rewriting a lot of it Because.

It’ll have POVs for each of the characters: Claire, Patience, Alex, likely Jody and Donna, and maybe both Kaias, although probably not since the beginning.

It’s going to need me to create waaaaay too many OCs if I want to do it right, but I think it’s doable. And I plan to use this WIP as an excuse to bring here all my beloved female characters whenever possible. For example, I already have a plot all laid out to bring my dear Bela into the fold xDD, with significant Claire & Bela scenes, and an appearance of the SPN characters for a reunion or two.

[chaoticlarrie]

Watching spn for the 1st time in 2020 - Bisexual Dean

or,

How supernatural queerbaited itself into destroying the bi-erasure pit of darkness and i think it’s beautiful (in its own fucked-up way).

(apologies in advance for my crude language)

So I’m still in mid season 8 of spn and haven’t watch the rest but I had some thoughts about the clusterfuck that is Dean’s sexuality. 

It seems like Dean was meant to be straight? I don’t think the creators/producers/writers, in the beginning, meant for Dean to be queer. To be honest I don’t even think they questioned it one second. If I’m wrong please correct me. Did the creator, Kripke, ever made a comment about Dean’s sexuality? 

So the character is heavily presented as liking girls, wanting girls, banging chicks left and right (and all the girls he meets want to fuck him?? though i get it...). He wants to see female strippers, go to brothels, likes magazine porns, video porns, anime porns... 

But at the same time Dean, actually, genuinely, regularly checks out guys ??

So we have : the guys he checks out, the doctor sexy thing, the fetish for male cowboy wear, the seducing of a guy with his words when the lesbian couldn’t do it ?? the siren who lures him by being a guy who’s into led zepplin and it works ???? 

So the creators didn’t meant for Dean to be queer and apparently the actor neither yet he is heavily queer coded ??

Apparently you can unintentionally be queercoding your own character ?! 

Also, all of this is even without bringing up Castiel, so ...

And almost every time we have a brief apparition of queer Dean, you have in the next scene or so a big reinforcement of the “Dean wants to bang chicks” narrative. 

And here’s my theory (as I said before, I haven’t seen the whole show yet so I may be wrong here, it’s just an outsider of the fandom pov but i’m open to corrections): 

When realizing the potential of queerbaiting that they could do with the destiel situation, they reinforced the queercoding on Dean so the shipper audience could hope for a not totally straight Dean, while the general audience kept perceiving a totally, 100% straight Dean (queerbaiting at its finest, you’ve got to give it to them).

And it worked thanks to a marvelous little thing called bi-erasure. Almost every straight person do not understand that bisexuality is a real thing and not a stepping stone towards more gayer things. (Sadly enough, it’s also the case of a lot of gays and lesbians but that’s another conversation). So in their mind, (the general, straighter, public), as long as Dean was interested in girls, he couldn’t be possibly interested in guys. You could show him eye fucking Castiel all you want, if he reads an asian ladies porn magazine in the next scene, it means he’s straight (bi-erasure is a powerful thing I tell ya).

And if you think that’s not true, that people know about bisexuality and are able to put 2 and 2 together, well you would be wrong. The visibility of bisexuals really improved in the last 3/2 years but here I’m talking about 2013 and before (season 8 and before) and trust me, the kids were not that woke, I was one of those erased bisexual. 

I even suspect the creators, writers, producers, not considering that bisexuality was a serious possible sexual orientation and therefore queercoding Dean “risk free” of being perceived too gay. 

It probably sounds crazy for the gen-z (and thank god) but I swear that I lived my teenager years in a time were all bi guys were secretly gay and all bi girls just straight attention whores (you can notice how this joyful narrative comes from males being persuaded that everyone secretly want their dick...). Anyway, at the time, the general idea is that a guy who genuinely wants to bang chicks can not possibly want to bang dudes. 

And that’s how they made the “totally straight eye fucking dudes Dean Winchester” work.  

And here i’m extrapolating cause I haven’t seen the later seasons but my guess is that the years pass, the seasons keep being produced and they just kept the destiel queerbainting to cater to the hardcore fans (and the shippers, in every fandom, are always the hardcore fans, let’s not kid ourselves) without ever having the intention to make it canon.

But in the end, we come to a point where Dean has been queer coded for so many years, his relationship with Cas so emphasized, the general public made aware of the possibility of bi characters, that the only logical explanation is that Dean is genuinely in love with Castiel, and bi, and at this point, not making Destiel canon feels weird and homophobic. 

Also, the idea of Dean being a kinda-repressed, semi-closeted, complete disaster bi makes SO much sense considering the character background, upbringing and current environment (like, seriously, the hunter community is not lgbt friendly...). Hell, I live in a big city in europe with liberals all over amongst family and friends and I’m not even fully out yet well in my twenties. You can’t expect childhood trauma, emotionally abused, ultra conservative and “manly” environnement Dean to get his shit together right away when he realizes he likes guys. 

Anyway, all of that to say, that I don’t care if Dean is meant to be canonically bi or not, to me he is. Because I identify with the character heavily, and I love him and want to protect him and I don’t take arguments on that. I love the character that was created and evolved throughout the years, no matter if it is what he was meant to be or if it was unintentional (I did not expect to get emotionally involved in my “ironic” watch of spn in 2020 but fuck.)

As always, my sympathy to the spn fandom and my ever lasting admiration for the bullshit they endured through the years.

[hellerism]

I want an essay on #12)

12. symbolism: tell me about some cool symbolism in spn! your pick

*puts on my english major hat* im about to put more effort into this than anything ive ever written for college. ok top 10 supernatural symbolism...this isnt in any particular order its just whatever i think of first. also it might not be actual top 10 im just remembering random shit. this has gotten out of hand so im putting it under a read more

1. the most obvious one, the impala. many have discussed this before me and im probably just repeating what others have said, but the impala is an extension of deans body/a representation and mirror of both his physical and mental state. obviously the impala gets destroyed in the season 1 finale when dean is dying. and he rebuilds it in season 2, while he is trying to regroup and rebuild from the death of his father. ive seen a post about how dean losing it and smashing the impala is a metaphorical form of self-harm which is :(( also, the impala staying covered and hidden away while dean is living with lisa and ben with this reading is so interesting. i do think dean loved the idea of a normal life with lisa and ben more than the reality (not that i dont think he loved them! any scene with dean and ben makes me soft). but this also makes it that much sadder because supernatural considers dean unable to live a life that doesnt involve hunting; the impala is hidden and dean is a shell of his real self. in season 7, they once again have to hide the impala away and use other cars. the impala is gone and hidden away; something is wrong. dean is hurting. he isnt his full self. why? whats missing during that time? cas. and in season 10, when dean is a demon, he stops caring for the impala. you know, because something is wrong with him. because hes a demon.

2. dean knocking over and breaking the angel statue in the beautiful room. he makes it fall with a single touch, hardly a push. and all it took cas was a single touch for him to fall and break. dean, of course, doesnt mean to shatter cas, though he does mean to make him fall. dean repeatedly argues with cas, acting as the human opposite to cas’ emotionless faith in heaven, pushing him toward the edge, pushing him to rebel, pushing him to choose humanity. and it works; cas learns to love through dean, and through that he rebels against heaven and falls in “every way imaginable.” and when he hits the ground, he breaks, shattering all his faith in god and everything, leading into the godstiel arc as he tries to put his pieces back together.

3. the streetlight as a halo over cas’ head in on the head of a pin. it flickers when anna appears, which is physically meant to show her power. however, it also shows cas’ wavering faith in heaven. interesting how anna, the angel who chose humanity over heaven and decided to fall, is the one making cas’ halo flicker. he is beginning to question things. he is beginning to feel. he is beginning to fall.

4. deans leather jacket in the first few seasons. its not actually dean’s, of course. it belonged to john. dean picks it up and puts it on while he and sam are searching for him, physically shouldering the weight of johns expectations of him. its too big on him. and dean is 26 at that point. hes well past done growing; he’ll never fit perfectly into that jacket. no matter what he does, he’ll never fit perfectly into johns expectations: the perfect son, the perfect soldier. and leather jackets are heavy even if they fit well. there is a physical weight on his shoulders now, a manifestation of the weight of the world and the weight of being a parent for his younger brother and everything john has piled onto dean since he was a child. he eventually stops wearing it (bc some absolute legend stole it irl), and i wish they’d taken that as an opportunity to have dean grow out of the shadow of his father, but supernatural is a bad show so they didnt.

5. mary, who just happens to be named after the mother of jesus. the perfect wife, the loving mother, the tragic figure, the victim, clad in white, the color of innocence. except shes not. she was raised a hunter. shes lived the bloody dark side of the world hidden from most. she loved her children, but she wasnt a perfect wife and mother. she didnt know how to cook. she and john fought, and he even moved out for a few days, and she needed her four-year-old son to comfort her. she is not the virginal mother; shes an imperfect person just trying to do her best. the dabb-era deconstruction of the very concept of mary makes me crazyyyyyyy if you couldnt tell.

6. these shots from 9.14 captives

in the first shot, we have a statue of cupid over cas’ left shoulder and a cross over his right. and in the second shot, there is a bible on the right side of the table, and nothing on the left. and cas turns to the left. he turns away from god, continuously choosing to turn away from stability and what he always knew in favor of love and humanity. there is nothing on the left side of the table precisely because there is nothing certain in cas’ future with humanity, but he chooses them anyway. plus, cas inventing free will by falling in love with dean retroactively makes this shot that much better; there is nothing on the left side of the table precisely because there is nothing written for him. cas falling in love with dean created an empty space in gods story. this show is pure fucking insanity oh my god.

7. serafina the angel (the pantheistic view in that episode makes me crazy but we wont get into that). serafina, whose name is audibly similar to seraph, the class of angel that cas is. coincidentally, the only seraphim we see in the show are cas, who falls in love with dean, and akobel, who married lily sunder. serafina, who fell in love with adam, the literal progenitor of humanity. and who is the character in supernatural that has always stood for humanity as a whole? dean. serafina literally had me convinced that deancas would happen in the finale.

8. the removal of -iel from cas’ name. dear god this one drives me crazy and i doubt it was on purpose. castiel, the shield of god. for eons he existed as a warrior and tool of god. and then along comes dean winchester, who does a very human thing. he gives him a nickname. cas. he removes the “of god” part. he removes god from cas, because dean doesnt value him for being a good soldier or a good son. he values him simply because hes cas. and cas questions everything, his loyalty to heaven, his blind faith that god would one day return. he is no longer a warrior of god. he is simply cas, the shield, and this time he chooses to be a shield for humanity, for the winchesters, for dean. for the michael sword. the shield protects the sword. cas dies shielding dean. this got off topic but its just sooo insane.

9. this shit from 2.13 houses of the holy. i know it was an unplanned coincidence but jesus christ.

10. ...lamp. i know i know but it still boggles my mind. the completely out of place tap dance that they had to spend time and money on to train two actors who had never tap danced before. the lamp being a source of light. divine light. cas. the whole thing being set to the song lets misbehave. WHY LAMP.

[billiewena]

top 5 insane events post nov 5

SO MANY TO CHOOSE FROM.

5. Steve Yockey is Dead

We Are All Gay Here. y’all were insane for this one but I love you for it. the fact that Mr. Yockey himself has seen a video calling Jensen fruity and now makes jokes about his death? the best worst thing ever. keep on slaying monarchs.

4. J2 Divorce / Prequel Announcement

just when we thought we’d be chasing the high of November 2020 for the rest of our lives…the Js united us with the worst news ever followed by the funniest. ET TU, ROBBIE???

3. Misha's "Cas is proud of you and I’m proud of Cas" post

it got to me okay

2. Adam Williams Tweets

I am genuinely FASCINATED by this man. I want to have long discussions with him. to say Destiel is without a doubt canon and dean is basically already in a relationship with cas, but dean’s DEFINITELY straight. or that dean definitely clocked cas when he “got cleaned up” in s8 but also he doesn’t like ��danglers” and wouldn’t go farther than kissing him? but also when he does kiss him “universes would be created in that moment”? and then to find that he himself is “straight” but had two boyfriends??? let’s get brunch, sir. tell me all your stories of working on SPN and all your opinions even if vehemently disagree with half of them. I just need to study you!!!!

1. LATAM Dub of 15x18

when the finale had mentally destroyed all of us a couple of guys decided that actually, dean would probably say "I love you back" and made a legendary move. gay rights WON. history was MADE. what other fictional relationship is listed as “Semicanon / Canon (Spanish Dub).” NO one's doing it like them. and now...we can never leave.

honorable mentions t: dabb's alternate ending reveal (they KILLED Kansas???), the day we all rallied around eileen/saileen/shoshannah stern after the j*red interview, and just all the script drops in general. every time you don’t think they can get gayer, they do! "still beautiful, still dean winchester." the “paradise” cas saw basically being a sex scene until confirmed otherwise. he SPREAD his ASHES in a MEADOW!!!

put “top 5” anything in my ask and I will answer