#what IS it with Liam and the mlm characters??????

[oddthesungod]

sliding in huffing and puffing as i catch up to ep17 of campaign 3 like: ORYM HAD A HUSBAND???????????? LETS GO MLM KING LETS GO???????????

[utilitycaster]

I was asked by several people to elaborate on why I thought people hated Essek and specifically treated him as some spontaneous disruption rather than a choice driven by cast members, and so here it is.

An overarching theme is this: Matt, the creator of Exandria and DM for Critical Role, created Essek. The entire cast of Critical Role likes him. Liam O'Brien, as Caleb, chose to romance him. Now, none of this prevents you from disliking him, but I think people pile their hate on Essek because they don't want to admit they are upset with choices the cast members have made. (For what it's worth, this is why I think it's healthy to be able to express that you are frustrated with a cast member's character choices or with developments in the campaign or creative choices generally, and treating expressions of dislike as taboo or worse, inherently problematic, ultimately makes for a far more toxic fandom than one in which people can comfortably say "I don't like this"). Essek is an NPC, and as the post that led me to write this up states, he is a character who represents Matt's narrative decisions and the cast's choices in Campaign 2. To be mad at him is to be mad at a puppet because for whatever reason you are unwilling to admit a dislike for what the puppeteer is doing.

Now: why Essek specifically?

People who shipped Caleb with Jester do this a lot. I'll admit to my own biases re the C2 ships but I do reject this being pure fanwank because people who shipped other Caleb ships and were still around in the late campaign either mostly acted like adults, or just kind of threw Essek into the mix. The thing really is that a lot of people who shipped Caleb and Jester are very big fans of Liam specifically, and Liam and Laura's dynamic, and are loathe to say that Liam decided not to have Caleb significantly pursue the relationship; that Laura chose to have Jester act utterly unaware of the relationship; and that Liam decided, instead of having Caleb pine endlessly, to pursue another potential romantic interest. I also suspect that some abuse of power in specific fandom spaces gave people false hope and inflamed resentment. A lot of these people also hate on Fjord but tend to be quieter about that because it's harder to pretend a PC isn't deeply tied to a cast member.

There is a subset of fans who treat mlm ships and wlw ships (or male and female characters) as locked in some kind of zero sum game in which the existence of one dims the light of the other. This is preposterous. I cannot imagine a more wretched and unhappy fandom experience than miserably tallying up fics and art and judging success not by quality and enjoyment of what content there is but rather whether there's more for your ship or more for other ships. I have joked that when my favorite character is popular I enjoy that they're popular, and when they're not, I enjoy that I clearly have refined and superior taste and I recommend others adopt this mentality. I also have half-joked that it would be fascinating to do a survey tallying the quantity of posts complaining about, say, Caleb and Essek's relationship someone has made, vs. how many posts they've made about (for example) Beau and Yasha's relationship, because a lot of the time the energy spent complaining, or worse, harassing others over their preferences could have addressed the problem had it instead been devoted to creating fanworks for your ship of choice.

Also very generally, while it's true that there's no shortage of annoying fans of Essek, I promise, there's no shortage of annoying and shitty fans of basically every character and ship including the ones you like.

For his appearance in Campaign 3 specifically, I think people are blaming Essek for the fact that this is the Chickens Coming Home to Roost, Avengers Assemble campaign. If you take issue with the characters of Bells Hells being overshadowed by those from past campaigns, the time to make that complaint was when Laudna and Orym showed up as PCs with strong ties to Delilah and Keyleth, or at the very least when Keyleth was brought in as a ringer to help resurrect Laudna (and, as someone who did make those complaints at the time and has since accepted this is the Past Campaigns Campaign...this has not been the case). Multiple party members (as played by cast members) expressed interest and excitement in Aeor before Essek (even as Seth) was mentioned. Bells Hells (as played by the Critical Role cast) want to go to Aeor. You do not have to like it, but this is not Essek's fault, as he is an NPC as part of the story driven by the cast's choices.

I've said this before but it bears nonstop repeating: when the CR cast says it's their table, it does not mean "it's their table and above criticism." It means "they are making the choices they make to play a game that they will enjoy." You can and should say that you're not enjoying it. It won't change what they do, but you'll feel better. But Essek isn't a real person with real agency. If his appearance is upsetting you, you need to attribute that to Matt's choices and decide if this campaign is still something you wish to watch and if this fandom is still something in which you wish to participate. Acting like Essek is some kind of horrible natural disaster ruining your lovely picnic and not a very deliberate choice by Matt is a transparently absurd denial of reality.

[wardensantoineandevka]

This is a genuine question, but idk if I just follow good people or don't scroll through the critrole tag enough, but where are you finding biphobia? Or I guess, if I could phrase it another way, in regards to what are people being biphobic? I'm not looking to start shit, I just haven't seen any or am horrifyingly ignorant on how it's presented

I just open the tags or, more often, finding a blog that was reblogged by a blog in my activity. Stuff that I've seen this month alone have included:

referred to Chet, who has flirted with people who are not women on multiple occasions, as the token straight

insisted that Imogen and Laudna are specifically lesbians / assumed that Imogen and Laudna are, by default, lesbians — some people get real aggressive if you mention interpreting Imogen or Laudna as bisexual but a lot of it is subtler than that

surprised that a woman who is married to a man can roleplay a woman who is pining for a woman in a meaningful way, as if the two are exclusive to one another

acted like Laura has never played a queer character before when Vex is bisexual

dismissed Vex as not counting bc she ultimately married a man

"joked" that Fearne is wasted on men

referred to Fearne as a lesbian (this is uncommon, but it usually happens in "jokes")

referred to Allura as a lesbian

refused to count Liam as playing a queer PC every campaign

This is not even the most egregious stuff historically, but this is some of what I've seen in the past month.

The biphobia problem is recurrent in this space—just as it's recurrent in any other space I've been in. A lot of it is outright dismissal of queer characters when they're attracted to other genders or downplaying that attraction, acting like that attraction is not as important, or even erasing that attraction to other genders. There's a lot of diminishing characters who are attracted to other genders as being not as important or as good / shiny / meaningful, sometimes outright dismissing them as not counting or framing them as placeholders for "more real" queer characters. The idea that wlw are by default lesbians and mlm are by default gay men is a big but subtle one. That's all just to name a few things.

A lot of it is more indirect than people expect, but it is pervasive in most fandom spaces, and this fandom space is no exception despite the number of bisexual characters.

[thotpuppy]

✨Bidding Now Open!✨

I'm a bit late in making a promo post, but I just wanted to share with you that I'm offering both a Teen Wolf fanfic AND any fandom fanart for @fandomtrumpshate this year! It's my first year participating. I think it's a really cool project, and I'm really happy to be a part of it. (:

My Offers:

(long post including art examples)

DoughritoArt Auction #1 (^ click to see listing!) Organizations this auction benefits: Bidder's choice of any of the listed groups (See full list.) Type of fanwork: Fan art Subtype(s): Banner, Book cover, Drawing/painting/etc., Photo manip Fandom(s): Any Length/scope: Minimum bid is $10 for simple edit, eBook cover, or plain illustration. $20+ full book layout or more complex illustration. $40+ willing to do complex painterly illustrations. Basically, the more you donate, the more complex and detailed the result. Fan art details: High Resolution/print quality Illustration, Banner, or Book Cover. Willing to do full sleeve book cover (Cover, Spine, and Back [including text]) as well. Comfortable with Edits or Illustration, capable of using commercial use assets, happy to discuss specifics. Especially interested in: I am particularly fond of stories involving queer romance, trans characters, and occult imagery. I am fond of both historical and modern fantasy. I really enjoy working with Original stories, but I also like 'underrepresented' fandoms, older fandoms, and superhero media. Unwilling to address: No extreme gore (i.e. Splatterpunk), no graphic horror (mild horror is okay), not super fond of extreme musculature. Struggle with illustrating of anthropomorphism, mecha/machinery, scantily clad/nude women. Other notes: I would like to have a very direct communication with the bidder. I want to make sure I am able to tailor your art to exactly what you want. I would like a lot of input at the initial stage, so I have a good idea of what direction to go (i.e. illustration vs edit and what subject matter), and I would like feedback when presented with multiple options. Special interests: Poly ships, Canonically trans or nonbinary characters, Trans or nonbinary interpretations of canon characters

ThePurebloodPrat Auction #1 (^ click to see listing!) Organizations this auction benefits: Bidder's choice of any of the listed groups (See full list.) Type of fanwork: Written fanwork Subtype(s): fan fiction (new) Fandom(s): Teen Wolf Highest rating: E Length/scope: Depends how much the bidder contributes. Bidding starts at $5 for 2k+ words. Every $5 adds 5k words, i.e. $10 = 7k, $15=12k. Maximum word count minimum is 25k. Minimum Bid: $5 Especially interested in: I am most interested in Sterek, Stackson, Scallison+Stiles, Jydia+Stiles, or other main MLM pairings. I am very open to poly ships. I enjoy some dark themes, but typically prefer to write main pairings in healthier relationships while the dark elements are external in longer plotfics, I don't mind the main pairing featuring dark themes from a kink-oriented perspective. (i.e. if you'd like 5k of a character getting nonconned, I'm cool, but 20k of yandere!character stalking their partner, I am less cool.) I enjoy transmasc characters. fave tropes: creature!Stiles (werewolf, raven shifter, vampire, otherwise supernatural), magic!Stiles, mpreg, Omegaverse, canon divergent, med.fantasy, college au fave characters: Stiles, Derek, Jackson, Lydia, Peter, Erica, Isaac, Allison, Scott, Parrish, Finstock, Sheriff, Boyd, Liam, Corey, Danny I enjoy writing complicated people and complex relationships. I enjoy creative world building. I tend to write very introspectively. Noncon, underage: OK Unwilling to address: Not super into Bad!characters, but willing within reason. No Scat, no bugs, no necrophilia, no Major Character Death, no genderbending. Less extreme, I am less fond of: All human/no wolves AU, Post Apocalyptic AU, Time travel Other notes: I would like to have a consistent communicative relationship. I tend to go weeks without working on something and then binge write a whole huge chunk at once. I would love to be able to shoot a few ideas at you randomly and have you respond in a day or two, to make sure you like the direction I'm going. Special interests: Poly ships, Trans or nonbinary interpretations of canon characters

Here are a few examples of cover art and illustrations I've done:

[slytherinnbitch]

Okay yes the movie was great! I agree. But why is no one talking about so many missing characters???????? Where is June? I NEED HER. ONE ELDER SISTER AINT ENOUGH I NEED BKTH IF THEM TO BE FULLY FUNCTIONAL.

That being said, where is Henry's mom? She was supposed to take stand and how did the QUEEN BITCH OF ENGLAND suddenly turn into a King? Who idk sorta resigned to the fact that nothing can stop Henry even though he kept trying? Like where is that cruelty and hatred and disgust? Where is the dinner and Bea spilling juice? On Phillip and making him leave?

Also Ellen is shown to be happily married to Oscar? I mean WHAT????? Also where is my trophy husband Leo? I want him 😭😭😭😭😭

So many scenes are missing and I get it that it can't be all like the book but still.

Alex knowing he is bi?????? Where is his gay crisis? I wanted panic where is panic 😭😭😭😭😭 He just had two mlm relations and what?? My baby was supposed to panic!!!!!

Where is Liam and Luna???? I love Luna, man. And who is this Miguel and why? Why is he the one to post everything, it was the RICHARDS.

The movie was amazing, it had all the main moments, of Paris, of the museum, of Austin (altho it was supposed to be the middle of the night) and what not. And Ellen winning election teared me up just like always. I am just so sad that it wasn't what it was hyped up to be.

Also idk they just shat on the history, huh? Moment and really all I wanna do is crib all night long, which is unfortunate because no one here is into rwrb!!!!!!!!

[bluedalahorse]

So I wrote a little something about the RWRB movie, particularly the erasure or diminishing of some other queer characters’ (not Alex or Henry’s) identities. I’m cutting it so you don’t have to read it, but of course you can if you would like to. Not going to tag it for now, just for peace of mind.

So overall, there were parts of the movie I found charming and enjoyable, and I think things really picked up in the second half. I did find the whole thing kind of uneven on a writing level. I know changes have to be made and things have to be cut when you go from a novel to a two-hour movie, and I sort of like looking at how the adaptation process works. After a second watch I can probably pin down some of the writing issues and appreciate what did work. I don’t know if I will or won’t post about it.

Really, right now, the thing on my heart that I want to discuss, is the representation issue.

I actually think they did a good job representing Alex and Henry’s relationship mlm onscreen, once it got going. The tender moments were tender, the spicy moments were spicy. You didn’t get actors looking at one another like “oh god I have to be in love with a man now” and we didn’t cut away from the intimacy scenes like we were ashamed of them.

But—sigh. The way they cut or diminished every other queer character in the story. Obviously I knew Luna and Liam had been cut out, so I was ready to adjust my expectations there. I’m glad Amy was played by a trans actress, although I also wish we like… knew Amy was trans and sapphic? Maybe there was a line about Amy’s wife that I missed, but I don’t remember one. 

My biggest feelings of frustration, though, is how they handled Nora, who is very much bisexual and Jewish and a statistical analysis nerd. I get combining Nora and June to streamline things for the movie, but I do not understand why you wouldn’t make Nora bi? You can keep roughly the same number of scenes with her and Alex, and just rewrite their interactions to sound like two queer friends talking instead of a protagonist and his Black Best Friend archetype the protagonist says things to because he needs to say his internal monologue externally. Rachel Hilson did bring great energy to the role, so I liked seeing her onscreen. I just wish the script gave her more to work with and didn’t erase her bisexuality. Like there’s a certain audacity to the script saying that the B in LGBTQ isn’t silent (an important line to have!) when the film is either very much silent about a key character’s bisexuality or has written it out completely.

(Although, the part where Nora was obviously playing a drinking game over political debates? Loved that, excellent example of DC behavior right there, I did cheer at that scene. I am 100% serious.)

Also. There’s just… something. About implying that the gay Mexican journalist character was the one who leaked the emails, instead of the Republican Party. There’s something about writing that storyline in an America where gay people, Mexicans, and ~the media~ are regularly demonized. At a time when the actual Republican Party IRL is literally out here trying to do a genocide on trans people, and Florida’s Don’t Say Gay ban is on the books, and everything. I get that Prime was probably trying not to piss off the actual GOP and draw their ire, but like, conservatives are not going to watch this or like this anyway? I get changing the antagonists, maybe, but maybe we need to go in another direction with that. Hm.

One more thought, as far as overall vibe. Washington DC is statistically the city in America with the highest LGBTQIA+ population. Queer rights are visible in our city’s culture—maybe in a nerdier way than some of the more “hip” US cities but it’s still there if you know where to look. The West Wing/federal government are a bit removed from DC’s broader culture, depending on the administration, but Ellen Claremont is a liberal Democrat with a diverse staff, so she’s more likely to have an open relationship to DC’s queer culture than say, a conservative Republican president. So… idk. Let Alex move through scenes that reflect this culture, is what I’m saying.

Tl;dr I think the RWRB movie worked as a gay romcom in the Netflix Christmas movie sense. It reflected an mlm relationship and did it well enough. At the same time, Casey McQuiston writes books about queer community, which has always been one of the reasons I gravitate toward their work and come back to it. I feel like this movie chose queer individualism over queer community, and that makes me sad. It especially makes me sad in a time where we’re getting tons of mlm-themed things released but every other aspect of LGBTQIA+ identity has been ignored or diminished.

For comparison, RWRB is about the length of half a season of Heartstopper, and even half a season of Heartstopper depicts a range of LGBTQIA+ identities and knows how to write queer community, even when centering the story on a main mlm relationship. And yes, Heartstopper is different, different things need to be considered and so on. I do think the People Who Make Heartstopper looked at what the comic said, went “oh, one of the things this comic is about is about is queer community” and created a show that reflected that, even if they couldn’t adapt everything from the comic. I wish the People Who Make RWRB had looked at Casey’s book and done the same.

I hope we can simultaneously hold the competing truths that like, 1. it’s okay if the RWRB movie isn’t groundbreaking art, because some LGBTQIA+ movies are just allowed to be mid romcoms, but also 2. it didn’t do right by the queer community themes in the book, and it erased the queer women especially, and this feels like part of a larger pattern when so many mlm releases are happening all at once.

Anyway I’m done, for now. More thoughts later? I mean who knows.

Who’s looking forward to Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe?

[mariailoveyou-guerin]

How did I go from for Kevin Randall this is is edits and end up on mf randall #from edit bc of the name to Randall julie edit then to comments talking about they want julie Randall together one thing about shippers they’ll always ship a minior with man 10y older never gets old

fact i was watching tw edits skipping while🤢all the s*rek bc ofc they’ll always ship a mf grown a88👨🏻with a 🧒 may anyone who ships that di*e a horrible💀same with riara thiam dont even like kie/liam but shipping with grown murde*rs y’all sick and rafe a whole racist too on top

I get st*rek was from time where they was all sickos and groomer enjoyers but seeing riara in todays day and age and now mf julie 15-16 and Randall 23-29 I’m about to actually throw up and wanna bleach my eyes out bc now they ruined #from for me with that nasty sh*t #FROMily and

it’s funny bc people was saying julie Elgin was weird bc he’s what 17 or smth but they are fine with Randall x Julie🤢🤢🤢plz just say y’all weirdo grooming enjoyers and go just like riara shippers they too are just using Julie to be with Randall like who’s suprised nobody! #fr

I hate the internet why are people such creeps they 😭 about she’s almost 18 like ok talking about it’s fictional like that’s gonna change anything it’s always a loser child or grown👩🏻using these miniora as self insert like most riaras shipping a 16 with 20y nasty weirdo freaks

like 2-3 Elgin Julie edit N it’s people talking abojt I don’t see it or I don’t ship but the same people are on Randall julie edit saying they want them together or they love them and see them become a couple also so many Julie Randall oh I know what y’all are weirdos #from fans

ofc I was right😂it’s always self inserts like Randall Sara or Marisol Randall are right there but no it has to be the child and grown a88 man bc y’all are freaks like that so said fcvk if it’s pe*do I want it! may all of you burn and free julie and Randall #from u nasty weirdos!

can a fandom just once not be weirdo freaks plz this why I don’t join or go into fandom stuff this one I got there by accident now I’m in rabbit🕳️so yeah and I want those #from creatures to take my eyes for ever seeing the sh*t I saw just now and keep seeing but I’m not surprised

ofc there’s always the same people in fandoms I never thought I’ll execpt to see what I saw in from but here we are the racism and them talking they don’t see Elgin Julie was predictable they always do this just to go around and ship a ped*o ship everything just not ship the yt+

Or yt lassi bc characters they like with black characters like they swore berek was worst thing every just to sh*t ste*rek then popekie to ship no chemistry cringe ship jiara and now back to their #1 love in fandoms the ped* ship with minior an grown man 7-10y older then said 👧

honestly I was shocked not really thought finally obx normal then s1 came out and it was the whitest and straightest fandom ever so ofc the racism them not seeing kie with pope ect but did jj came like cloc*k that was not news but to see the ped* shipping when they talk about how

going on 20 in s1 and kie was 15 when they met bc of her friendship with Sarah I said yeah they hit their no chemistry cringe ship of gay man and lesbian nothing worse then that can’t happen in this silly boat show just for them to say bet and ship a whole ped* ship ofc they do

it’s a show with mostly striaght yt girls like that’s their bread and butter especially if the yt man is psychopath racist ugvly and 6-10 older! that’s literally their fav trope only second to yt mlm and if jj rafe interacted or there was any other yt boy jj had same scenes as he

pope or jj had with sarah or Sofia or any yt girl (anymore they love het yt ship) they would’ve been on that like 500 years ago (why jiara even exist in first place bc she’s yt or passing to them why theh could never see jjcleo even tho it was gonna be a ship n writers had them )

as ship like they were gonna be a canon writers cast cleo to make her be with jj or have a triangle with pope before the forced fanservice of the gay man and lesbain happened bc of kie yt passing or them seeing her as closest to yt if she was tad bit tanner or less ambiguous)

they would’ve been forcing jjsarah to no end even tho like no one was accepting it bc those were siblings ��� ) they’ll jumped on any of those by now but since there isn’t any of those they gotta cope pretend to eat up their 2nd choice the gay man and lesbain ship or the ped* ship

and I saw Sara Victor the 50y man who’s brain hasn’t developed by of him being alone so he’s basically younger then julie even but sure nothing could shock me anymore after seeing Julie Randall now this #FROM gonna need to never look into this show more then watching the eps when

it comes out and that’s it bc I can’t do this anymore I’m to scared to see if it can get weirder but doubt it two of the worst ships they could’ve said was said so nothing can shock me anymore! saw Ellis julie but that was more bro sis type edit stuff so not weirded out seeing it

not a single julie Fatima (not thag it’s not as nasty as the others btw) edit 😂 not surprised bc I knew it was just self insert bc Randall being unhinged type they love that or psycho type for some reason in fandoms they want⛔️it’s show just about danger what more do y’all want?

I’m done out of the rabbit 🕳️ wanna blcok the ship but there’s no way to do without blocking Julie/Randall which I like as characters! Anyways anyone shipping julie with anyone but Elgin is freak weirdo and anyone who ships Sara Victor is the same hello sara Randall is there guys

I was wrong just saw sara Kenny not worse but yeah it’s horrendous too not like the other too but still so bad #from fandom is exactly like every other fandom in every other show bc they just hate bipoc always shipping them with people who are the reason for their trauma it’s+

actually crazy how they always do that like clockwork it’s usually woc with the yt men who tr*ed k1lling them but this one is knew bc ain’t no way y’all talking enemies to lovers and it’s she k1lled his dad like that’s gonna happen be so fr free bipoc woman/miniors from fandoms!

mainly other woman and especially yt woman bc it’s only them doing the most every weird ship ever made or shipped is always by majority yt striaght woman in her 12-50+age gp outside do smth other shipping pe*do ships or bipoc with psychos who are responsible for their trauma/pain

1h or so ago idk even know there was from fandom on tktk now I regret finding out didn’t even know Randall last name or that he had one and now I know unimaginable horrifying things I never wish I knew gonna try erasing it from my memory before the next last ep of s3 I 🙏🏾 I can

‪thankfully it’s the last ep this week and if they keep it like last ep it’ll be great bc next season won’t come before next year and that’s long enough for them to get over their ped* ship doubt it but at least no more content hopefully they won’t interact again in last ep‬

[ratsetflummi]

Hey I'm just a rando in the ship war trenches! I've never met anyone who simultaneously hates Caleb and loves Essek. I'm so curious what your perspective and opinion of Caleb is as a character, genuinely, this is not some bizarre and pointless argument fuel. Thanks for your time if you answer, and happy ship warring ⚔️

honestly there's various reasons that come together for me to not particularly care for caleb, and none of them are really directly caleb's fault

one thing is that i just generally do not vibe with liam's characters. which is weird, because i am perfectly fine with liam himself, but there is something about the way he plays his d&d characters that i just don't enjoy watching

another thing is that i'm kind of resentful about shipping stuff from campaign one, where i was pretty invested in the vax/gilmore ship that liam decided against, but now suddenly he can go for the mlm ship

there is also the in-game situation where for a bit it looked like caleb was trying to lead essek on to get favours out of him, and as an essek stan i have to condemn that

then there is the part where essek kind of made some comments that made it sound like he could be aroace, and that was the first time i was excited for a character to be aroace, and then caleb had to start dating him, ruining that headcanon

and lastly i generally enjoy essek's interactions with all of the mighty nein (particularly jester because of sending shenanigans), and it kinda feels like caleb keeps butting in, like we would have gotten more interactions between essek and other characters if they hadn't been going down the shipping route (which probably isn't true, but feelings are rarely objective)

so, in summary, i kinda dislike caleb for very subjective and petty reasons, some of which are specifically because i like essek

[deramin2]

I keep thinking about this and it deserves some expanded thoughts not in tags:

The issue is allonormativity. Like, sure there are different experiences of demisexuality and it's theoretically possible the people leaving endless 🍆💦 comments are also demisexual, but erasure through enforced normativity isn't isolated comments from individuals with the intent to erase. It's the way society is structured to enforce some thoughts/experiences as normal defaults and others as aberrant.

Any kind of asexuality is aberrant to dominant allosexual norms. A relationship whose intimacy is NOT centered on sex deviates from expectations. So all the comments reinforcing that of course they can't keep their hands off each other and of course physicality is the primary thing on their minds are reinforcing allonormativity. Even if they're coming from demisexual people. Internalized allonormativity is still a thing and no one's immune to it!

The comments on this post equating concerns over mass-fandom ace-erasure with homophobia are also a perfect example of allonormativity and aphobia. Because sex is tied into these allo queer people's identities and is an axis of oppression they experience, they assume anyone who isn't allo or doesn't center sex in the same way is suppressing their sexuality, and therefore any fan who suggests sex may not be the primary attraction is suppressing the character's queer identities.

Allonormativity is the belief that all people center sex in relationships naturally and the only reason people don't is repression. Certainly that's true of some people, but not all. Asexuality is not celibacy. it's not the denial of anything. It's about embracing that the amount of sex you truly desire is less than what's normative in your society, or has more parameters before it's desirable.

post-Reunion Caleb and Essek may well have a sexual relationship and that's fine. No one's saying that shouldn't be explored. The issue is when that's the ONLY thing explored. When that's what people jump to. When people assume "Come, let us talk," is code for more than talk because they believe the intimacy in their voices must necessarily lead to sex as the greatest expression of that intimacy.

But they could genuinely just want to sit on the couch together with a bottle of wine and hear about each other's lives and research and that is their freest, truest desire for being together. That bringing their minds together is as intimate as flesh could be. That we can decenter sex as inevitable without decentering an intimate, complex mlm romance that's clearly life-changing for both of them. That it is fully queer to desire each other in non-alloheteronormative ways. That doesn't erase anything; it adds to the rich tapestry of the way people are, the way they love, without cutting it apart to fit in normative boxes with normative assumptions.

Matt and Liam have portrayed that beautifully from the start. It's such wonderful representation of demisexuality and showing an allo man deeply valuing his relationship with a demisexual man. And plenty of the fandom do appreciate and respect that. But it's hard not to notice those who don't. Those who need it to be allonormitive to have any meaning at all. And that hurts and is alienating.

There's no condemnation of any individual or demand for action here. Only a request that when you default to sexuality as the primary form of intimacy, ask yourself why and if it really fits. Just ask yourself what other kinds of attraction might be in play or dominant. Because those are important, too. They aren't lesser or supporting. For some of us they're what connects us to partners the most.

There are many jokes floating around the shadowgast nation about the nature of Caleb and Essek's relationship (eggplants and winky faces abound), and most of them are good natured and perhaps true (eventually or at some point). I find most of them entertaining and sweet, but some of what I have stumbled across post-reunion have highlighted that it's only a joke up to a certain point to me.

Please keep in mind that everything in this post is my opinion and my opinion only. I'm not asking that anyone agree with me. This post is mainly for me because I felt like I needed to make it.

I have seen several comments/posts/tags in many different places talking about Essek and Caleb and that scene in the reunion, and describing it as horny or saying they can't keep their hands off each other or following up that conversation with sexual intimacy. I know a lot of these comments or conversations are not malicious or ill-intentioned, and I understand that people are excited for the first new content in nearly 2 years.

But, one thing I have appreciated about Critical Role is the variety of sexuality and genders represented, including various asexual and aromantic identities. Essek is confirmed by Matt on Twitter to be demi (romantic or sexual is unclear to me so it could be taken as either. If anyone has any other sources I would greatly appreciate them). As someone who identifies as aspec, I deeply appreciate the representation that Critical Role has given me.

The shadowgast scene in the reunion was not sexual to me. It's only been six months since the end of c2, which granted, I have not completed yet. As of this writing, I am in the middle of episode 133. Whatever is going on between Caleb and Essek is still very new, especially for two people who thought they would never have love. An aspect of being demi is that it takes time and closenes and a strong emotional bond for romantic and/or sexual feelings to develop. Six months, to me, feels like an incredibly short time for those feelings to take root for Essek even if he is on the path of developing them.

Seeing people make light of Essek's sexual attraction or feelings for Caleb or treat them as common place or casual, even innocuously, has made me feel as though this aspect of Essek really is ignored or forgotten about sometimes. Not by everyone nor, I would even doubt, the majority. Maybe not intentionally or maliciously or maybe it's a lack of understanding about demisexuality or aspec identities.

This is a feeling I have had for a while, and I mean this about nothing in particular but rather a sum of the parts I have encountered over the months.

In addition, I think Essek's sexuality can be overshadowed by how sexual Caleb can be/is. He makes comments throughout the entirety of the campaign that directly or indirectly reveal his sexuality, and that part is clearly important to him, even if he has not acted on it in a very long time.

I am not saying that Essek is NOT sexually attracted to Caleb or that their relationship does not involve sex at some point or at the time of that scene. I do think, at the very least, that Caleb and Essek would have a conversation about it as some point, and I find it likely it would turn sexual. At the very least, Caleb is attracted to Essek. Liam has confirmed that. I would guess those feelings are a combination of romantic, sexual, platonic, etc.

But I cannot imagine, and again this is my opinion, that feeling sexual attraction or acting on it for the perhaps first or second, maybe third time, is not a life-altering moment for him, let alone acting on it. From what see of his character, he's extrmely gaurded, extremely lonely, extremely shameful. Showing his emotions and attraction to Caleb, or to anyone really, is an extreme show of trust and vulnerability, and I don't think it should be taken lightly.

Treating it, at least in those early months, as though it is common or casual, something taken for granted, feels, to me, as though it undermines the importance and gravity of Essek's feelings, whatever they may be. Further, it undermines aspec identities, relegating them to sidelines if it is even acknowledged at all. I feel as though a lot of the jokes ignore Essek's demisexuality and how integral it is to how he builds relationships and interacts with people.

As someone who is aspec, I find it disheartening to see these sort of jokes and offhand comments being circulated about a character who is confirmed, canon aspec whose identity centers on deep bonds that take time to develop. Applying sexual under/overtones to scene where a small chaste kiss and an innocent pet name are shared feels like, in a way, a forced sexualization of a new, developing relationship that may never turn sexual.

There is such little aspec representation in media, and Critical Role does a fantastic job of showcasing a variety of aspec identities which is so, so rare. To turn around and have the fandom ignore or disregard these identities (intentional or not) that the cast and crew work hard to incorporate feels bad. It makes me feel as though I still have to fight for my identity to be seen and understood by people who, theoretically, support and want to understand and respect various identities, who claim to love Essek and Caleb and their relationship. It hurts.

I have spent a lot of time convincing myself that I and my sexuality belong in the queer community, that I deserve to have a voice, that I deserve to be respected and heard. With my feelings about Essek and his demisexuality, I didn't feel right standing by any longer and remaining silent when these portrayals were bothering me.

I am not asking anyone to change their opinions, to agree with me, to change the fic they write, the art they draw. The Critical Role fandom is beautiful and amazing and absolutely incredible. I have met so many kind, caring, wonderful people since joining. It's an experience unlike any other. But, I needed to make this post for me and anyone else who was feeling like me.

[imhidingonceagain]

I find it very funny when thiam fans write in fanfiction that Theo is a lot taller than Liam when in reality they're like 2 inches apart.

And you know what? I like that there's not much difference between them. I like how they can easily change their dynamic and be vulnerable in front of each other. Sometimes Theo protects Liam, sometimes Liam protects Theo. Of course they have their issues but they don't seem to have an unhealthy dynamic either in fanon or canon like other Teen wolf ships do (not gonna name them).

I need to clarify:

I don't necessarily believe that one character being much more taller than their partner brings necessarily an unhealthy dynamic, but after reading fanfiction for about ten years I've found that a lot of people highlight size difference (not all people and if you're not one of them please know that I'm not talking about you) usually in two scenarios that have nothing to do with appearance: When they have a couple where there's clear toxicity/violence/power imbalance.

Or to feminize the smaller/younger character in mlm ships (nothing wrong with femininity but I feel like they do it so the same sex couple fits heteronormative roles).

Most of the time I think writers don't even notice they are doing it.

Again. It's not the case all of the time. Some people find it cute and that's all (I myself am a fan of some ships where there's a size difference) but it weirds me out (and it's very obvious) when people use it for reasons that have clear violent or sexist roots (that writers end up romanticizing)

I like that Theo and Liam are basically the same size. I like that there's not a big age gap between them. I like that they both have personal issues that are different but somehow those issues allow them both to understand and rely on each other.

I respect if you headcanon Liam being much smaller than Theo, I just hope you're not thinking about him in that way for the two reasons I explained before. If you headcanon that just because you find it cute that's totally fine <3

Ps; English is not my first language, sorry if I didn't make sense.

[queer-and-dear-books]

Title: You’ve Reached Sam

Author: Dustin Thao

Genre: YA Fiction | Romance | Friendship | Drama | (Low) Fantasy | LGBTQ+

Content Warnings: Death | Racism

Overall Rating: 9.9/10

Personal Opinion: There are a lot of books out there that start with a significant character already being dead. Whether it be a sibling, a parent, or a lover. They leave an impact on those the left behind and it colors the entire story. I’ve read a lot of those books and a lot of times, I wish I got closure. Answers to questions that were left behind. In this book, I get that and I love it. Sam Obayashi is dead, but that doesn’t mean he can’t give closure to the ones he left behind. The ones that loved him and the one that can’t seem to let him go. Not yet.

Do I Own This Book? No but I will one day.

Spoilers Below For My Likes & Dislikes:

Likes:

- I really enjoyed this story on a lot of levels. It’s such a real and heartbreaking look into grief and moving on from the person you loved more than anyone else in the world. And unlike in The Ghosts We Keep, we get some closure from the person that died too. Sam was able to say his goodbyes and make amends to those that he hurt by leaving. He allowed his girlfriend more time to absolve her guilt, he made his cousin Mika realize that people won’t ever forget him, and he was able to tell his brother James that he didn’t mean it when he said he hated him. Obviously, when a person dies in real life, we can’t get that closure. But I think we got to see it in Oliver. He was devastated by his best friend’s death but he grew from it too. He embraced his identity more and became friends with the girl he once envied. There are such good characters and such good friends in this book and that’s what I look for above all else in a story. Good characters.

- Yuki is such a good friend for giving that crystal to Julie and telling her she doesn’t need to let go. Tristan is such a good friend for inviting Julie to the film festival and connecting her to an amazing professor at the school she wants to work at. Mika is a good friend for just beating the shit out of men who harass teenagers and bullies that tarnish Sam’s memory. And Oliver is a good friend for being by Julie’s side when she came back to school and felt isolated. He, Jay, and Rachel all did that.

- Honestly, the bond that had blossomed between Oliver and Julie is one of my favorite things. I think she was the first person he came out to since it sounds like he was too afraid of losing Sam by coming out. And I love that Julie wasn’t the least bit surprised by his confession. It was so obvious. He said only she understood how broken he felt, he remembered the way Sam had smelt, he tried to be with Sam as much as possible without Julie. It would’ve been so easy for him to blame Julie for what happened like Taylor and Liam did but he didn’t. It’s a testament to the fact that he truly loved and understood Sam and how he felt about Julie. And it’s a testament to the fact that he’d been Sam’s best friend and not Taylor. 

- Also the fact that Oliver and Jay are apparently implied to be together is so cute! Jay is a Thai guy who modeled so obviously, he’s hot. He also cares about the environment and he stood up to Liam when he was being racist. The guy is an A+ hottie in my book and I love that he’s MLM! And the fact that Julie teased Oliver for wearing extra cologne and buying a new shirt before his date with Jay is perfect best friend banter! She even told him to tell her everything later that evening. That’s so cute!

- Another of my favorite scenes was when Oliver said that ice cream would be on him and offered to buy Julie two scoops and then it immediately cut to the ice cream shop where Julie proceeded to order three scoops and a fuck ton of toppings. Boss move. Seriously though, I love their friendship. I love their mutual love of musicals and their mutual love of Sam. But most of all, I love how they were able to grieve together even if Julie wasn’t doing it in quite the same way as he was.

- Julie tripped a lot through the book. The first chapter really made it hard to like her but I get it, she was depressed and lonely. But I love that she tried so hard to amend things with the people she hurt. I love how she wanted to spend dinners with her mom when her mom pointed out how little they hung out recently. I love that she decided to tell Mika about her phone calls with Sam because it was definitely the best choice in that situation. I love how she wanted to make things right for Mr. Lee and realized that her jealousy of Tristan’s success was unproductive to her own growth. She learned and grew and I respect the hell out of that. Especially when she got the courage to say goodbye to Sam. The way he left a voicemail for her too in the end just about made me sob.

- Mr. Lee is the best. He’s an enigma. He talks to the books, he’s so kind and patient to his employees, he snuck into the film festival’s after party somehow which I think is hilarious. I just like picturing an older Chinese gentleman living a simple and quiet life while also supporting the dreams of the youth. He even gave Julie a journal for her to write in! God, I wish I could find an employer like him someday.

- Julie and Sam have a lot of chemistry together. The Before scenes really showed just how in love they were. In particular, I love the scene where Sam had to sing at a wedding and he was so nervous that he was messing up. But then he saw his girlfriend dancing with his friend and he became brave and sang his heart out because the love of his life was supporting the hell out of him. I could feel the love from them and I wish Sam could stay.

Dislikes:

- Fuck Taylor and Liam bruh. I’m glad Mika beat the shit out of the two of them but I can’t believe she still had to suffer a purse to the eye from one of Taylor’s friends. How dare they even call themselves Sam’s friends too?! They were nasty to the Asian exchange kids and Sam is Asian for fuck’s sake! They also get so nasty with Julie too. I bet they thought she was making a move on Sam’s best friend well how fucking stupid did they feel when they saw Oliver with Jay? No but seriously, I wish I knew their reactions to Oliver coming out. I would’ve loved to read about their jaws being on the floor. But also, fuck them for being bigots. That’s the part I don’t get. Why was Sam even friends with them at all? I guess it’s because they all grew up together but like, he could’ve made new friends with Julie and the Asian exchange students. I sort of get why Oliver stuck with them though. I’m guessing he thought that they were his best way of keeping Sam for himself for longer. But he realized that Julie would be a much better friend than they’d be because Sam was always telling him how great she is. But yeah, Taylor and Liam are the only reason this isn’t getting a perfect score. Because why did Sam stay friends with them???

- Sam shouldn’t have left that party. He also shouldn’t have forgotten to pick Julie up. In fact, he shouldn’t have gone to a party thrown by that bigot Taylor. That is all I’ll say on the matter. But also, the fact that an Asian dude in a small white-dominant town had two white people in love with him and one white girl crushing on him is impressive. Go Sam.

- I don't really have much else to vent about. I guess I’m curious as to how the afterlife works in this world but I also don’t want to know? I think it’s actually better that it doesn’t get explained because it doesn’t need to be. It’s magical. The one thing I’m really curious about is whether or not Sam knew Oliver was in love with him. I do like that he was able to casually say he loved Oliver. But did he know Oliver was in love with him? I get why Julie didn’t clarify though. Even if that was the last thing Oliver wanted to tell him and even though Sam is dead, outing her new friend to the guy he loved would not have been cool. You know, in case Sam didn’t know. But mmmmmm, I wish he knew and I wish he would have confirmed for us that he still would’ve wanted to be best friends with Oliver regardless of Oliver’s sexuality.

[snoozette]

Things I would love love love to see in campaign three (most of them highly unlikely but one can dream...)

- bringing back guest characters

- Laura playing a Barbarian or Warlock

- Taliesin playing a wizard

- an openly gay (mlm) player character

- a chubby, openly sex-positive female-presenting player character

- a player character with intact family with no problems (the main issue of backstory then obviously lying somewhere else to have drama)

- a trans player character (however this might in itself be problematic with the fans as the cast arent themselves trans)

- Matt romancing someone other than Liam via his NPCs

that's all =w=

what are your wishes? or expectations? or fears?

[ultimate-marysue]

So, about Bi Caleb

Warning: very long post, discussing bi representation and biphobia.

*Sorry for spelling errors, English ain’t my firts language.

I can’t believe I have to tell you guys, but anyways: Caleb is bi whether he ends with a male character, a female character on a non binary character. That’s what bi people do, you know? they experience atraction for all genders. Saying that a bi character that ends with someone of the opposite gender is straight and queerbaiting is incredibly biphobic.

Yes, Vax was bisexual. Yes, he ended up with Kiki. Get fucking over it.

Now, I can understand why LGBT+ fans may feel disappointed when they tease a “gay couple” but the “straigth” couple ends up being endgame. Notice the quotation marks because there’s not such thing as a straight or gay couple for a bi person. They are bisexual in both situations, but I can see where the problem comes from. I’ve been queerbaited to hell and back by a lot of shows and it really hurts. It feels like they are laughting at you for caring. But I want those fans (whose feelings are totally valid, don’t get me wrong) to consider a few things when it comes to Critical Role, the first one being: it’s a D&D game.

Let me explain, because I know a lot of CR fans haven’t experienced what D&D is like in real life (and that’s absolutely valid, you don’t need to play D&D to enjoy CR). This is an improvisation game, not an scripted TV show. In a Tv show you can plan ahead of time what ship is going to be endgame, what themes are gonna come up for each character and it’s easier to deeply explore sexuality and gender as different planned arcs. In D&D you character’s sexuality may or may not come up depending on how you play it. Take for instance how other CR character’s have stated their sexuality:

Beau: overtly. Very *In your face* kind of lesbian. Marisha said “fuck it, I really just want to romance girls and be bad ass”

Yasha: openly, but not as in your face. Ashley Jhonson wanted to drink from that WLW cup while also being a shy disaster. Seafood market is her favored terrain.

Caduceus: Our Ace king has never hidden his sexuality, and yet he didn’t mention anything about it until chapter 114. He didn’t had the need to either hide it or state it. He was simply vibing.

I think Liam is going that route with Caleb. He’s flustered by Essek and Edwulf (Come on you guys, he always asks Matthew if he’s still hot). He also had/has a thing for Astrid and a think he might have feels for our favorite Tiefling gal. I know we are all too used to characters being teased as gay/bi only to have execs pull a “haha jk they be straight”. But this is not Sherlock or Supernatural. This is a show that not only has queer rep, but also supports queer organizations and creators. Hell, I’m sure some of the cast members are LGBT (but I’m not here to speculate on real people’s sexuality). If Caleb shows attraction to men he is not just queerbaiting, doing it for fanservicing or tricking the fans in any way shape or form: he’s just portraying a bi character. The thing is, since this is not a TV show, he is not doing it por woke points or to send a message. He’s doing it because he wants to play a bi wizard with depression.

So maybe there will be a point in which he can explores his sexuality more deeply, but remember he is playing a game. And his character is one that has a lot of trouble opening up to his feelings. Caleb is not someone that makes sexual jokes or flirty remarks. He is shy, awkward and has developed a really fucked up sense of love that he is now slowly fixing. Hell, in the same Talks episode Liam explained that Caleb was trained on Honey-pot tactics. Which, for those of you who can’t stand Bond films, means seducing your enemy/target to get information, manipulate them or assassinate them. WHICH IS A REALLY FUCKED UP THING! Let’s remember how he was the one to push Fjord to sleep with Advantica so they could spy on her. That boy has Issues when it comes to relationships. So if we don’t see him being as overtly gay as Beau, Molly or Yasha, well maybe it’s because that’s the way Caleb is. Bi people don’t owe you flamboyance, or dating both guys and gals for your approval. I wouldn’t make a post if it was only that, because I do feel the people who are aching for good bi rep and would love some more explicit confirmation. But Vax exists, so I know we can’t have good things down here.

VAX EXPLICITELY SHOWED ATTRACTION TO GILMORE. AS EXPLICIT AS IT GETS. HE FUCKING KISSED HIM. THEY WERE PRACTICALLY DATING. AND YET SOME OF YOU FUCKERS CALL HIM QUEERBAITING. AND I SAY: NOT ON MY WATCH! NOT ON MY FUCKING WATCH!!

How come a character can have canonically kissed another character in a romantic/sensual context and still be called straight? I know fucking Sherlock traumaticed y’all into having trust issues but believe me when I tell you: I’ts not that deep. This is not a “Haha I love u but in a no homo way bro”. It’s a “full homo darling, but also we’re gonna break up because I like someone else”. This is the opposite of queerbaiting. Instead of keeping a charade he was honest with Gilmore because he valued his feelings and realized that he couldn’t reciprocate them at that moment. And if you try to tell me that Vaxleth was forced and didn’t have a reason to exist except queerbaiting, let me tell you: you are wrong.

Vax saw Gilmore once or twice monthly while he spent a heck ton of time with Kiki. Sure, they didn’t had the kind of camera chemistry Gilmore and Vax had because Keyleth is not charismatic. She’s really awkward, and her relationship with Vax was more on the adorable and dorky side of things. I bring this up because I’m predicting something similar may happen to Shadowgast.

Trust me, I ship the hot wizards as much as any other critter (even though I’m a multishipper). But they haven’t talked to Essek in centuries. I think it may have been almost a month in rol and quite a few outside. And you have to take into account out-rol time to because they are humans (except Tal) playing a game and they forget about stuff (except Marisha and Matt). So Shadowgast may not happen because sure, they had really good chemistry for a month a month ago. People have crushes that die down over time All The Time. So maybe don’t be so butthurt about your ship not being canon that you accuse an ally of homophobia. 

The cast of CR put forward such an amazing representation for the LGBT+ community and it really hurts me that you gets stuck on the one thing that isn’t canon. Matt has created a world in which coming out is not necessary because no one assumes your sexuality. A world in which people respect pronouns and orientations (except Tary’s father, who is a villain). A world in which Cad or Caleb don’t need to explicitly say “I’m ace/bi” unless it comes up in conversation. A world in which his friends can be whatever they want to be without pressure or reprecusions. A world in which they get to explore different gender identities and sexual orientations with full freedom. Let’s not interfere with that (unless there’s missrepresentation), and let them play their game. If you really need mlm or wlw canon couples or more outwardly LGBT+ people you have plenty examples among NPCs and other cast members (Allura and kima, Yasha, Beau, Dairon, Keg, Reani, Tary, Molly and Vax among others).

There’s way worst shows taking LGBT+ cred for barely doing nothing. Fucking Supernatural is the most recent example! Critical Role works towards showing an honest portrayal of LGBT+ folk and accepts valid criticism from their fans on the subject (when they changed J’Mon Sa Ord pronouns from it to they/them). They don’t owe you making your ship canon or portraying their characters the way you want them to (again, unless when it’s constructive criticism). Stop being so Fucking entitled and enjoy the show for what it is

,Respectfully~

*Edit: I´m tagging Caleb’s ships into the post because most hate comes from shipping wars. Most Shadowgast fans are respectful of the cast’s decisions, even if it disappoints them. But since I’ve already seen people accusing Liam of biphobia in that tag and since I’ve already seen this shit with Vaxmore I’m tagging the ship. If you want to read my long ass post do it, if not, ignore it. I’m not forcing you to read it. I’ve also tagged it with biphobia so people can avoid it if it’s triggering. I’m sorry if it makes you mad that your ship is not canon, but that’s not an excuse to be toxic to the cast. Those of you getting mad are the ones that need to read this the most. Like I’ve said in the post: you’re allowed to be disappointed, you are allowed to want more, but you can’t force the cast to give you exactly what you want. And most certainly, you can’t accuse them of  some very serious stuff like biphobia and queerbaiting when it’s not the case..  

[mircallablue]

So according to my dash and all of the asks I’ve been sent, CR really did go for the darkest timeline ending for literally every character.

Jester starts to lose touch with Artagan and ends up following Fjord around, without him ever once asking what she wants, basically becoming a background character in his happily ever after.

Caduceus ends up being basically forgotten by the Nein, travelling alone.

Veth goes back to being a housewife, which she has previously said wouldn’t be enough for her anymore, and the detective agency doesn’t end up happening.

Turns out, they didn’t actually get Molly back.

Caleb and Esseks relationship is kept incredibly vague, without confirmation of whether or not it’s romantic, typical of Liam with mlm relationships, but people are desperately grasping at straws anyway. Also Essek has to spend his entire life in hiding.

We get absolutely no hint as to what the rest of Beau and Yashas life looks like. Yasha has absolutely no plans or interests except following Beau.

Talk about going out with a whimper rather than a bang,

[fairymonk]

Alright after having slept and thought on it a bit I have my feelings about shadowgast. I'm actually feeling really good about it now!!

I was originally pretty upset that the mlm couple was left so vaguely open that so many people are still left wondering if a relationship ever even happened. I think the fact that Liam was even asking if Essek was open to it means it was more than friendship, at least for a time, but it was still the fact that so many were or are questioning it (I was originally!!). I thought about it and they were wrapping up the end of a 7 hour session and were trying to get their last thoughts in so not as much detail was gotten into on A LOT of things. Yes I wish it would have been a little more concrete and danced around less, but the openness is good!! It's were such great fan fic come from!!

I acknowledge that them having a romance for at least the rest of Caleb's human life, is what I wanted. I still think it's absolutely beautiful and love so so much that they were life partners and deep friends with each other all of Caleb's life. They do deeply love each other and chose to be together as much as their lives allowed, and I'm ok that it wasn't always romantic love. I love that they are just so deeply ingrained in each other's life and that it felt so true to character. Oh! And I love how quickly Matt said Essek was very open to it. He loves Caleb so god damn much 🥺

Anyways I don't think their relationship needed to be romantic for it to be as beautiful or important!!! Their love is still good and true.

[beetlemancy]

You know, one thing that pisses me off about the Liam "queerbait" crowd is that like... In C1 the problem was that the relationship was explicitly canon but not endgame. In C2 the problem is the relationship is endgame but not explicitly canon enough (in game anyway). What do these people think Liam and Matt aren't willing to do? Have a clearly canon mlm romance? Cause that happened last campaign. Have an endgame mlm romance? That happened this campaign. It just has to be everything or else it's not enough, who cares if the resolution makes sense for the characters, am I right? Who cares if both parties have always been extremely guarded and kept things vague and ambiguous? If they don't kiss at the end and start dating immediately then it was all for nothing. It's like all the romance and meaningful time spend together up until the very end, canon Shadowgast or not, means literally nothing to some people. If it isn't exactly the type of classic romance you want then it doesn't count? People just aren't as willing to be open to different kinds of relationships for queer people as they are for cishet ships and it makes me sad. It's more important for there to be a mlm relationship (to the exact measure you wanted) than for it to be natural and make sense. And somehow they're the same people who talk about rep points. Doing it for rep points, to me, would've applied more to sacrificing the characters' personalities and still ongoing development to be able to say "look, they kissed and are dating! We have a mlm romance on the show!" than what actually happened.

This is already a show full of rep everywhere, of all kinds, handled with care and respect. If it's not someone's kind of rep, fine. If you need flashier, more explicit, clearer, absolutely fine. But this isn't a show for general audiences that's airing on television. The cast don't have a moral responsibility to rep anything explicitly (or at all for that matter. They never even promised Shadowgast would happen, and if it hadn't that would've been well within their right), to normalize anything for the audience. This is a webseries for adults, played by people with their personal issues, interests and needs they're working through, through these very personal characters, that people decided to watch and I would expect them to be able to accept and respect the subtler representation even if it isn't what they personally needed or wanted. But alas, it seems some people can't do that.

Sorry to bring more disk horse to your askbox, you don't need to answer this if you don't want to of course. I just felt like venting cause Shadowgast is my otp since I laid my eyes on them and I never wanted them to get together right away at the end. And I knew that this would be the response when it inevitably happened that way, cause that's how these two characters have always been built, since their very first appearances.

Don't apologize, this is .. basically every Thought I've had as well, but written down more precisely than I can right now <3 I don't even have much more to add. Just,,, T H I S. So much this. And, I hope its okay that I did publish because so much of what you said is so on point!

Especially this: "This is a webseries for adults, played by people with their personal issues, interests and needs they're working through, through these very personal characters, that people decided to watch and I would expect them to be able to accept and respect the subtler representation even if it isn't what they personally needed or wanted"