#well to be fair all of the kids in the first sec suffered some sort of um emotional damage due to the system so um yea therapy pls

[thewhizzyhead]

do i regret doing well enough in 7th grade that i ended up being transferred to the first section in 8th grade? NOPE cause where else would i encounter overworked students that still want to produce outputs worthy of grammy and tony awards while still managing to carry the entire school's reputation when it comes to winning every single competition available WHILE still managing to somehow perfectly replicate the vocals and choreography of kpop songs thus turning everyone and ESPECIALLY THE STRAIGHT BOYS into kpop stans while also being sent to the principal's office multiple times for tweets ranting about schoom policies and managing to escape unscathed because the school cannot afford to punish any of them because that would be equivalent to self-sabotage. am i resentful of the stress the first-section-treatment gave me and the rest of my classmates due to forced adherence to unhealthy academic quotas which then strengthened the already rampant social hierarchy obsession present in the section which made my 8th grade experience a living hell? ABSOLUTELY-

[ratcandy]

Subcon Forest Analysis

Hi everyone I'm here to spill my aggressive overflowing thoughts on Subcon Forest and what it represents because it's been driving me insane since I finished the Sleepy Subcon time rift. Okay let's go. Obvious spoilers for AHIT ahead so proceed with caution.

This is also very, very long.

Disclaimer/warning: I will be discussing abusive/unhealthy relationships in this analysis. I mean. Vanessa. Come on. Also, there is a section on the nooses, and that delves, of course, into mentions of suicide. It will be sectioned off and easily skipped, but if you'd rather be safe and skip the entire post, that's completely understandable! Please stay safe. <3

Alright. Main point to be had here:

Subcon Forest is a giant extended metaphor for Snatcher's mind and character.

You all get to now listen to me spout nonsense about metaphors and symbolism because I'm a sucker for analysis and I'm given an opportunity to go ham. So perish.

The Ice

Let's start with the most obvious and most glaring thing in Subcon. The ice. It's everywhere. Not just outside Vanessa's manor, either; no, it's throughout the village, too. Shows up in the well and in random locations sprinkled about. When it comes to literal plot, we know that ice is just what lingers after Vanessa's wintery curse on Subcon. But going deeper and analyzing the meaning behind it?

Well, let's look at this from the perspective I've suggested. Subcon Forest being an extended metaphor for Snatcher's mind and character. A symbol for Vanessa then litters his mind, enough where it's certainly noticeable at first but blends in more easily once more of Subcon is unlocked to Hat Kid. This is clearly meant to be his lingering trauma, whether or not he wants to acknowledge it. Which he doesn't, as he never mentions it directly in his forest (that I can recall). Her influence plagues him, as to be expected with the traumatic experiences he went through with her. Breaking the ice is something Hat Kid must do in order to fulfill the wishes of the Fire Spirits (another subject I'll get into shortly), which, if self-indulgently playing with the found family idea, could mean that Hat Kid is helping him heal; if indirectly. Even if fulfilling the Fire Spirits' wish to die is... counterproductive, in that measure, which I'm now getting ahead of myself so hold on a sec!!

Vanessa. Ice. Everywhere. Traces of it all over his forest. That's the effects of an abusive relationship! Especially in a worst-case scenario where... yknow! One party in the relationship dies! So of course ice would be everywhere.

In and of itself, ice is a common symbol in literature and other forms of media. In this case, it's presented as an antagonistic force; emphasis is placed upon freezing and the harm that comes with it. The cold is unwelcoming, threatening, merciless. Snow can act as an insulating force, at least, but ice cannot. It can only make things colder.

A slight stretch: Seeing as this game deals a lot with time shenaniganry, I'm not sure if it'd be too out of left field to connect "freezing" with the theme of time. Yknow. Frozen in time. Both parties here, Snatcher and Vanessa, would be in this frozen state. One largely repressing it and never fully moving on, and the other doomed to her isolation ever since the event in question. They never moved past that moment after the Prince and florist's interaction.

The Fire Spirits (& the Portraits)

I'll put a slight warning here for suicidal ideation, if only because... it's the Fire Spirits we're talking about. It's not as grossly in-detail as the noose discussion will be, though, so make of that what you will.

To me, the Fire Spirits are a very interesting case. After all, they're fire. They're a direct contrast to the ice, thus being the only thing we're shown that could potentially melt it. The Fire Spirits, in my opinion, represent hope or a strength to continue. A strength to move on after troubles of the past.

...And that hope wants to die.

The Fire Spirits wish to burn out, to leave this mortal coil and abandon the forest to the cold. They make no effort to melt the ice, they simply dance, blissfully ignorant towards their surroundings. This being a metaphor for Snatcher's own hope for moving on is made all the more obvious by the fact he wants them gone. The first contract is to kill the Fire Spirits, to kill the hope. Perhaps he believes that sort of thing to be fruitless or naïve, so it only clutters his mind or has him foolishly optimistic at points. So, get rid of it. And the hope is happy to oblige.

(That, or their willingness to leave the forest to its own suffering and not aid in the ice's thaw angers him. Besides the whole "bark bark growl I can't get to parts of my forest because of them!!" which... also could represent a naïve hope clouding his judgement, not allowing him to see a bigger picture. But hope can't all be lost if one wants to move forward...)

A little side-tangent now on the portraits! And it's another slight stretch but the idea is in my head and I can't let it go. Portraits are another common symbol, usually being a physical representation of a memory or idea. For our purposes, let's say they're memories. I know in canon they appear to just hold souls captive or something but for now we're just Ignoring That(tm). The Fire Spirits have to burn the portraits to disappear. See where I'm going with this, maybe?

Instead of handling bad memories (or perhaps memories of the past in general) in any healthy manner, Snatcher chooses to forget/repress them, which just allows his hope to progressively die out.

I'm really hoping this is making sense because it makes a lot of sense to me but I might be insane rn

The Fact that this is a Forest

Forest symbolism breakdown! What's a forest usually mean in literature? "Traditionally, the forest has come to represent being lost, exploration and potential danger as well as mystery and 'other worldliness'." Okay. Yeah. Fair enough. That certainly works with the whole aesthetic we've got going on. Wood usually is life, growth and strength. But the trees of subcon are all dead. So what about that? It stands for death, big whoop, very spooky, we know Snatcher's dead and so are the children, yadda yadda wowie wowie. But. :) The trees in Subcon look a lot like trees that were scorched in a forest fire. Don't believe me?

(You could also argue they're just regular marsh/swamp trees bUT SSHHSUUHSH HANG ON HEAR ME OUT LOOK LOOK,)

What I believe to have happened was a controlled fire to rid the forest of the majority of its ice and snow. Likely done by Snatcher. It leaves behind a very desolate, depressing, barren scene... but. What else do dead/burnt trees symbolize? Rebirth. After all, controlled fires happen to make way for new trees to take the place of old ones. Some trees only drop seeds in fires/hot temperatures, so new ones take root and begin anew. Weird. It's almost like... I dunno. Snatcher was given some sorta second chance, given he's not just a corpse in Vanessa's cellar. So were the subconites. Another life given then by Snatcher. All connected I tell ya!!

Generally, aside from that, forests have many connotations. Mystery, isolation, claustrophobia; a place to dwell on regrets, or the past; to worry over one's future; to seek escape from or escape inside of... hmgmrnmm!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- T / W -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The Nooses

The t/w is given at the top and another cut-off point will follow the bottom of this, for those that would like to skip. This will delve into talk of suicide and abusive tactics used by abusers. Please don't read if it will upset you or make you feel unsafe!!!

Personally, I cannot stand the nooses, but that's just due to my own triggers. Were there a way to hide those from the game or replace the damned talking ones with anything else. I would take it. In a heartbeat. But I can still appreciate the potential analysis to be had with them. So now i'm gonna talk about it despite how uncomfortable it will make me to do so. yEa

So, what about 'em? There are three types of nooses seen in Subcon. At least that I remember but I didn't really go looking for them. Empty ones, ones containing empty subconites, and the talking ones.

Nooses in general obviously can hint towards suicidal thoughts or behaviors of the characters that interact with them. If saying Subcon is Snatcher's mind, it could suggest that he suffered from some sort of suicidal thoughts in life (or currently, if second death is possible... or if he never truly died... or maybe he's trying to figure that out...which has given me... a separate idea...uh oh). But. And hear me out. Different perspective.

A talking noose. I hate them with a fiery passion that is unmatched. But think of the packed symbolism of a noose that talks. And think more about what it says. "I wouldn't mind being strapped around a cute neck like yours." "Be careful now, I don't want to see you meet a miserable end anywhere, but with me." Oddly, a lot of what the noose says seems almost... endearing? One could argue it's a way of luring someone to put it around their necks, which in and of itself is a whole lot to unpack when it comes to suicidal thoughts beckoning one forward; painting itself as something romantic, almost. But. Here's a wild idea, now. What if the nooses, at least the talking ones, are another symbol for Vanessa?

They're tinted blue, after all. While Vanessa's scheme is more red, one could argue two things: One, ice. Blue. Ice. yeah. Or two, the fact that Snatcher's scheme is more purple. Blue and red... make... purple. So, for all we know, Snatcher's current state was a compound effort between suicidal thoughts and Vanessa's treatment of him. Perhaps he even found a way to put himself out of his misery before freezing/starving to death. (I know he has dialogue that argues against that, but... are we certain Snatcher would be the kind to admit suicide over freezing to death?... I don't think so.)

At any rate, a common threat by those in "control" of an abusive relationship is that of killing themselves should the other person not do as they desire. It's a cruel form of emotional manipulation to get their way, worse off if the other party is an empathetic individual. As a person who has been the empathetic individual in relationships like this... I would know. I've been here, unfortunately So, it's not completely out of the question to say Vanessa could've used some tactic like that, even before the whole... cellar ordeal. Did she? I dunno. I'm tossing ideas around. But if she did, the threats of such would sit around in the Prince's mind easily. Even if she has a reputation of not going through with it. It doesn't matter. That shit sticks with you forever, that scare, the potential of it ever being true, is horrifying and it ruins you. I'm projecting, Squirtle.

Still. A noose cannot hang itself. It has to have a victim.

...yea.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- T / W PASSED -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Misc. Ideas

- The spiders: Aside from the usual things spiders can be chalked up to symbolizing - toxicity, alluring danger, just... general pain - I like the potential wordplay that can happen here. Yknow. A black widow. Say the Prince and Vanessa were married when one died. What would that leave Vanessa? A widow. ...She's red and black, too. Yknow. Like a black widow. HA wordplay is fun isn't it?

- Snatcher's tree: Love this place, love sitting in here. But not the point! The inside of Snatcher's tree is such a harsh juxtaposition to the rest of Subcon that it kinda throws ya off guard. After all, the dark, purples and blues then contrasted with the bright warm colors of the inside. Even the music switches over. The thorns outside aren't present indoors. Ohh yeah this is gonna be on the nose as hell but the Tree(tm) is 100% representing Snatcher's appearance/put-on personality vs. his truer nature. Spooky outside with thorns, foreboding, unwelcoming. Then the more comfortable interior. VULnerable. Have I even mentioned that the tree is HOLLOW I mean COME ON. The sturdiness of that tree? Nonexistent. He's not a sturdy guy at all no matter how he fronts

- Intrusions are unwelcome: Snatcher does not like the fact that Hat Kid sticks around in his forest. His personal space. His mind. In fact he tries desperately to get rid of her after their fight, not wanting her presence in his forest at all. He has no problem providing more contracts later on with the Death Wish thing, and he finds great entertainment in messing around with Hat Kid, so it's not just a weird sudden hatred he has for her; it's the fact that. After she's finished being useful, he no longer wants her around, lest she find some things she shouldn't find. Now he's just uncomfortable with her in his personal boundaries. Could just be a denial that she's helped him heal (breaking ice, stealing from Vanessa, being something interesting for his kids to interact with) or just not really wanting a child to get wrapped up in. All that. Most likely the former. Considering the amount of joke-hints he drops regarding his background during his Death Wish dialogue. I see you funny man, making jokes out of your trauma as a coping mechanism. Punts him

Annnd I think that's all I got, for now! I'll make an update post if I get any more sporadic ideas. If you read this whole thing, thank you!! and also!! Wow that was a lot!! Hell world. Please feel free to elaborate on any of my points or debate with me on em!! I'm always open to other ideas, just be aware that if I disagree I am not shy when it comes to debate hehehe, tho I won't be aggressive to any extent I prommy!!

Alrighty. goes to sleep goodnight

[lollytea]

Girl Talk

(ngl I hate this sm. I wrote this fic yesterday, the file corrupted and i lost everything, had a breakdown, rewrote everything the next day because I am obnoxiously stubborn. Anyways Hunter and Luz content. Bon Appetit?)

(READ ON AO3)

“Okay, but what am I even supposed to say to her? Oh! Maybe I could write down some jokes on the back of my glyph slips in case things get awkward. Wait, no, I don't want her to think I'm not taking this seriously. I don't need to be goofy all the time just to hang out with her. I need her to know that I'm serious about her and this whole...romantic thing. And I know she gets upset when she thinks I'm making fun of her so...”

“Alright, so, get this. It says here that there was once this old witch who lived on the outskirts of Latissa and his whole thing was experimenting by mixing paints and magic together. Apparently the stuff he created was like....super powerful.”

“I mean, she said she likes me 'cause I'm goofy and funny and lovable and...and...and I'm sure there's other adjectives I could use but I'm drawing a blank here. So, who am I to deprive her of what she signed up for? But I can't just....ugh, I can't even think right!”

“It doesn't have a lot of info on his specific technique but I'm sure if we did some more research, we could successfully replicate his experiments. We're pretty good at figuring stuff out. Woah, wait. I wonder what would happen if we created glyphs with this paint....maybe it would enhance the spell's level of power. Oh, that would be so cool!”

Luz stopped pacing, the floorboards practically burning after she thoroughly wore down the surface with her frantic footsteps. She set a hand on her hip and turned a withering look on her guest.

“Call me coocoo but I don't think you're listening to a word I say.”

Hunter lifted his head to blink up at her, chewing on the end of a pen. He was sitting cross-legged on the floor, boxed in by towers of Eda's Wild Magic books.

There was a glassy look in his eye, as if he was trying to get his bearings after being abruptly yanked out of an alternate dimension.

He had been, in a way. Luz was inclined to call it “Booksville.”

When Luz first met Hunter, this sort of stuff was a big, huge No-No for him. She could've invited him to take a look at any one of those books, packed with information on that obsession of his and of course, he'd be crazy with intrigue but he would hesitate. If he even opened the book at all, he'd card through the pages with an almost jumpy sense of caution, as if the paper itself would sting his fingers.

Well, that ship had certainly sailed. It had taken him a while to get fully comfortable but nowadays, Hunter didn't ask twice before digging into the contents of Eda's books, soaking up every tidbit of every sentence until he had exhausted every page.

He had even brought his own index flags to mark his favorite passages. He had gone on a little rant earlier about how Eda was an outright maniac for dog-earring the page corners.

Luz made a mental note to never show him the state of her Azura books. He would probably cry.

Hunter had become so lost in the Wild Magic sauce, he didn't even seem to care about the fact that he was not supposed to be here.

Of course, Eda didn't mind that he was here. That is to say, Luz didn't technically tell her he was here. She and King were currently out, being menaces to society and all that fun stuff, as they usually were before Luz would sneak Hunter in.

So, to be fair, Eda had never specifically said that Luz was not allowed to let The Golden Guard of the Emperor's coven into their home.

It was probably fine, right?

Yeah, it was probably fine that Luz had been hiding The Golden Guard of the Emperor's coven in her bedroom like some kind of forbidden pet.

Speaking of forbidden pets, that precious red cardinal of his was perched like a Christmas decoration atop his shoulder. That little rascal did wonders for Hunter. He seemed so much cuter than he was when there was an adorable little palisman snuggling up to him.

Once Hunter had processed what Luz said to him, his features screwed up tight. He was offended.

“Whadd'ya mean I'm not listening? I bet you can't repeat anything I was just talking about.”

“Ugh! Yeah, Hunter, I heard you. Paints! You wanna start painting as a hobby and let me just tell you, I fully support your budding creativety and will hype up your work with my entire heart but please. Right now I am having a full blown Amity Calamity!”

“Yeah, okay, that is not what I was talking about. Also, I get that you're freaking out n' all but....what do you expect me to do about it?” He threw his hands about wildly, at a complete loss. “Man, I don't know anything about that stuff,”

“I don't knowww....” Luz groaned. “I just....ugggghhh.” She buried her head in her hands, ruffling her hair into oblivion, like it would miraculously stimulate her brain cells into action. It released some pent up frustration, at least. “I wish it was easier for us to just talk about girls together.”

Hunter perked up. “Talk about girls? Are you kidding? Of course we can talk about girls, dummy!”

“Wait, really?” Luz asked, taken aback by this apparent development.

“Yeah, for sure. One sec,” Buzzing with eagerness, Hunter dove into his stacks of books, emerging seconds later with a worn, dust encrusted volume. It was so ancient, the title had faded away but Hunter still put his finger to where the big letters should be.

“Notable Female Witches of The Savage Ages,” He rattled off delightedly. “They were considered the mothers of Wild Magic. Their style of spell was really quite advanced, see they--”

Despite her frayed nerves, Luz sill managed a weak laugh.

As insufferable as he could be sometimes, she really did like this nerd a lot.

“Okay, Hunter. Buddy,” She said gently. “This stuff sounds really cool and I wanna hear all about it at some point buuuut....when I say girls, I mean...y'know. Amity specifically.”

“Oh. Right. Yeah.”

Hunter's face fell with disappointment but he was quick to snap back into a look of cool indifference. He shut the book in his lap with a soft thump, set it aside and turned his full attention to Luz.

“Sooooo...” he began awkwardly, scratching at his ear. It could not be more obvious that Hunter wanted nothing to do with this discussion. But Luz appreciated that he was trying. “Girlfriend problems, huh? Shoot.”

Luz's cheeks darkened. “Heh. 'Girlfriend'. Yeah, that's...uh...” She was suddenly very inconvenienced by the existence of her own hands so she clasped them together tight to keep herself from fidgeting. “That is.....a word for Amity.”

Hunter frowned, puzzled. “Okaaaay? So, what's the issue?”

“Ohhhhhh, boy.” An ironic, long suffering smile stretched across her face. “Let me just tell you that there is a lot goin' on up here, pal.” Luz tapped her finger against her temple. “So if I'm gonna give you the full unabridged version--”

“You could summarize it.”

“You know I don't know how to do that.”

“Yeah, I know.” Hunter sighed. “Figured it was worth a shot. Okay, let's hear it.”

“Alright but this is gonna be a lot so I suggest you strap yourself in,”

Luz sucked in a deep inhale, with full intent to let the entire flood of thoughts cascade out her mouth.

Hunter's eyes snapped to the floor, like he was actually looking for a safety harness to attach himself to. Then he seemed to realize that was ridiculous, as he scowled to himself. Little Rascal chirped and he irritably mumbled something under his breath in response.

And then Luz took off.

“Alright, so!” She announced, clapping her hands together. “So me and Amity have known each other fooooor...a while now? Yeah, it's been a while. And we've been pretty good friends ever since and then one day, she rescued me from her scary mom and she had this black flowing cape and her voice went all low and then suddenly, huh. Doki doki, y'know?” She thumped a fist against her chest. “I was gettin' all feelings-y up in here,”.

“And then a little later I figured out that we were both feeling kinda feelings-y and I was all like,” She mimed a brain explosion. “Pshww....”

“Pshww....” Hunter repeated quietly, testing out the little sound effect on his tongue. “Doki...doki....?”

“Yeah. Exactly. Doki doki. Pshww.” Luz nodded, as if he had made a valuable contribution. “So, now we're both here in the same boat, fully shish kebab-ed by Cupid's arrow.”

“Hold up. What language are you speaking?”

“And things are....great? Nice? Sorta hard to believe but stuff actually happens. We hold hands a few times, we...” The volume of her voice dropped to a bashful murmur. “we kiss a few times. There was so many beautiful, amazing romance-y moments that happened, just like in movies, y'know?”

“Movies....?” Hunter's bewildered stare turned from Luz to the bird on his shoulder, as if he was going to get any further clarification from either of them.

“Right! But here's the thing. It sorta feels like all that stuff just went by in a blur. I don't even know how I did any of that. The hand holding, the smooches the....ugh! It was like I was on autopilot or something and now I have no idea how to operate. Now, no matter how hard I try to get the vibe right, I can recreate those moments. So now it's starting to feel like...I don't know how to do anything!”

Luz's arms were whizzing around like an out of control windmill.

“I mean, Sure, Amity takes the lead sometimes but I can't make her carry this entire....relationship? Flirtationship? Whatever it is that's happening here! I gotta act or something! But I've been thinking about it waaaay too much. I never know the right time to hold her hand, I never know if she wants me to tell her she looks cute or if now maybe isn't the right time or...it's awkward, okay?! I've been making it awkward 'cause I don't know what to do! I-I don't even know for sure if we're dating! We've never talked about it!”

The last sentence came out as a squeak and Luz realized she had used up all her oxygen and needed to take a breather.

Hunter had not said a word but Luz did not know what to make of that dissecting stare of his, that studied her with a mixture of confusion and fascination. Like she was some kind of peculiar animal. A flushed, panting, peculiar animal.

“So.” He said finally, holding his palm out for Little Rascal to migrate from his shoulder to his hands. “Why don't you talk about it?”

He asked like it was the obvious solution. Luz was a little irked by it, but she kept her patience.

“Oh, Hunter. Sweet Hunter.” She heaved an exhausted sigh. “It is not that simple.”

He still didn't seem to understand. “Well, why not?”

“'Cause it's--.....Uh.” Luz trailed off, twirling her wrist around as if expecting to snatch an eloquent articulation out of thin air.

“Okay. Lemme put it like this. Amity is....really special. To me. Sometimes I still can't believe that she's real and she's friends with me and she likes me and....whew.” She pressed her fingertips to her cheek, surprised by the warmth. Even thinking that sort of stuff prompted a blush or two but it seemed saying it out loud made her face scalding.

“Anyway, now that we're going through....this, everything feels so much more....fragile?” Her voice rose in pitch, uncertain if 'Fragile' was even a suitable word to describe her feelings. It was just a vague, wishy-washy concept to describe.

“Like I feel like I could break it all so easy, just by....” Wait, she knew. She had figured out her handle on this.

“Just by being me.” She felt an ache just by admitting it, but it was the truth. Luz exhaled unsteadily to compose herself, clasping her fists tight into the fabric of her shorts and she continued...calmly.

“I can't risk doing anything that's gonna push her or make her uncomfortable or scare her away or...y'know, ruin this.” She held up her palms with a heavy shrug. “I-I don't have a plan and it would be way too reckless to wing it. Who knows what would come out of my mouth? She tells me a billion times that my weirdness is what she likes about me but...it can just as easily be the thing she hates if I overdo. I can't overdo it.

Luz was expecting Hunter to look at her like she was dumb again, but surprisingly, he nodded. A slow, thoughtful nod, as he absentmindedly scratched Little Rascal under the chin.

As the silence filled a little longer, she was starting to believe he had nothing else to add, which was fine. She had wanted to rant her heart out but realistically, she couldn't imagine Hunter having any advice for her. This wasn't exactly his area of expertise.

“Hey, Luz.” He said at last, voice surprisingly breezy. “You know those books that you really like? Uhh, with the nice witch Azuzu or whatever,”

“It's the Good Witch Azura!” Luz snapped, hands flying to her hips. “And I know you just pretended to not know her name. You're just trying to be cool.”

“Yeah, yeah.” The corner of Hunter's lip tweaked upwards. “And wasn't there that other witch that you liked to pretend was Azura's girlfriend?

Luz scoffed, finding it utterly unbelievable that this obnoxious little man had the audacity to be so dismissive towards her favorite book series, when she had been sweet enough to smuggle him in here.

“She was not her 'Girlfriend', she was her 'Soulmate' and if you even listened to me talk about it, you would know that. For your information, her name was Hecate and she began as Azura's rival but over the course of the series, they developed a beautiful, unbreakable bond that was jam packed with heavy romantic subtext. I mean, even their declaration of their eternal friendship in Book Five, which was really emotionally poignant by the way, reads so much like a love confession, it's a crime. And it's like...Ladies! Just kiss already!”

“Okay. Right. Sure. I understood some of that.”

“I mean, I guess I've read a ton of Heczura fanfics to tide me over. It's hard to find a fic where they don't kiss. Hold on, you know what fanfiction is, right?”

“Yeah.” The light in Hunter's eyes dimmed. “You made me sit through that three hour long slideshow presentation, remember?”

“Oh, right,” Luz popped a finger gun. “That was fun,”

It was fun, but a lot of work. Hunter was pouting over losing a measly three hours of his time. Well, newsflash, nerd, Luz spent two weeks working on that. Nobody is getting their hours back.

“And what usually happens in those fanfictions?” Asked Hunter, propping his chin up with his hand, as Little Rascal hopped over to a pile of books. “How do they end?”

“I told you, they kiss. A lot of the time they look deeply into each others eye and talk about how they complete each other like two halves of one heart. And y'know, moments of miscellaneous fluff.”

“Uh huh. Interesting,” He mused, tapping his pen against his bottom lip.

Luz knew Hunter could be a little...eccentric but was he really analyzing fanfiction right now? Where did the sudden interest come from?”

“So, uh, besides Azura and Hecate, are there any other...boats(?) that you--”

“Ships.” Luz corrected him.

Hunter snapped his fingers. “Right. Ships. Basically love stories that you really like.”

“We talkin' canon or non canon?”

Hunter squinted at her, lost. Seems somebody was not taking enough notes during the slideshow presentation. “Both? A-all...?”

“Oh, well, there's a bunch.”

Luz had no intention of listing every single ship that had captured her heart. They would be here all week.

“I've spent my whole life reading books, watching movies and anime and--”

“Anime...?”

“Hunter, please!” Luz squeaked as calmly as she possibly could, but she could not deny that she had started to vibrate. “You have no idea how excited you just made me at the thought of teaching you about anime but I'd need to dedicate a whole day to that 'cause I need to meet Amity soon and I'm still sorta in crisis mode. So, let's stay on topic.”

Her brow furrowed. “Whatever the heck the topic is! Why are we talking about ships, Huntifer?”

He waved off her question. “Okay but how does the story usually end for all your ships? The book ones, the anime ones, all of them,”

“We've been over this with the fanfiction discussion. They kiss, Hunter. Geez, you want a diagram or something?”

“But what else?” He prompted.

“What do you mean 'What else?'”

Now this was just getting ridiculous.

“They kiss!” Luz said with a huge amount of emphasis. “And again, miscellaneous fluff. They'll do stuff like pick each other up and swing around, hold hands and....walk off into the sunset, y'know?” She waved off all that extra padding as unimportant to the conversation. (Though Luz did really enjoy miscellaneous fluff.)

“Well yeaaaah,” Hunter was giving off vibes of a grade school teacher who gave her little nudges in the correct direction but ultimately wanted her to figure out the right answer herself. She wished he could just give it to her because honestly, she didn't know where this any of this was going.

“But when exactly do they ask each other if they're dating?”

“Whaa?” Well, that settled it. He had paid no attention to the slideshow whatsoever. “Nah, nah, they don't do stuff like that. They don't have to 'cause they're already perfect for each other. All they gotta do is look into each others' eyes and they just...” Luz shrugged, feeling lightness bubble in her chest at the very thought. She had a feeling her smile looked pretty dopey. “They just know.”

“Right. And why don't you and Amity just know?”

The bubbles burst and the lightness turned to dead weight.

The question speared through Luz's gut. Her entire body went rigid.

She had known but...

She had been trying not to...

Not to think about it.

Because if she thought about it, she knew she'd cry.

But there is was. A culmination of every coil of underlying dread that had been gradually writhing in her stomach in a monster of anxiety, summarized in a short and sweet collection of simplistic little words.

Luz did not just know when it came to Amity. She was constantly taking shots in the dark. That is, if she was even brave enough to take a shot at all.

The two of them together were not as seamlessly synchronized as couples in love were supposed to be.

Her throat stung.

Her vision went cloudy with blotted tears but she managed to catch Hunter's stony expression break into one of sheer panic.

“Wh-- Luz! Hey!” He yelped, scrambling to pick himself up from the floor. He nearly tripped over his books as he stood and hurried over to close the distance between them. He made to reach out to her but his hand stopped, just as it was about to brush against her shoulder. It hovered there for a moment, fingers curling and uncurling with uncertainty.

“Luz, listen, I wasn't....I-I mean, what I meant was...uhh. C-c'mon, cut it out!” Hunter's voice crackled with desperation and despite crying her eyes out, Luz felt the watery chuckle at the back of her throat.

“Aww, does crying make the Golden Guard uncomfy?” She tried to tease but her words came out all wobbly.

In fairness to the poor guy, it probably did. Luz couldn't imagine that dealing with tears in a delicate matter, was ever something he would need to handle in his line of work.

For all she knew, this was his first time having to comfort someone like this.

“You don't get to make jokes and cry at the same time. You gotta pick one.” Hunter snipped, but his tone was not nearly as cutting as usual. Luz was almost tempted to call it soft.

Clearing her eyes with the heel of her hands, she finally felt that warm touch on her shoulder, and then another rest against her upper arm.

Somehow the gentleness cracked all her remaining composure and she dissolved into ragged sobs.

Hunter did not speak nor did he let go out her until she got every tear out of her system. He waited patiently, tracing circles with his thumb into her skin.

Eventually, her sniffles fell silent and her eyes no longer blurred. She took a deep breath and the following exhale was shaky but manageable.

“Are you....good?” He asked cautiously.

Luz nodded.

Hunter removed his hands so carefully, you'd think doing so would cause her physical pain. He must have heard once that people were more prone to being hurt when they were already upset and assumed it was literal.

“Do you really think that...Amity and I....” Luz's voice was low and quiet but her jaw was set tight. She refused to let her words be whimpered. She looked up, meeting Hunter's eyes. “Aren't right for each other?”

“What? No! No, no, no,” Hunter looked positively alarmed at the accusation. “Luz th-that's not even remotely what I meant by that.”

“Well, then I guess you accidentally hit the nail on the head.” Luz managed a strained, bitter little smile. “'Cause it's true.”

“Luz, c'mon,” Hunter groaned, exasperated. “Don't talk like that, you've got it mixed up.”

“No.” Said Luz, tone quiet, polite yet strikingly obstinate. “You were right, Hunter.”

For someone who loved being right, he didn't seem thrilled at all.

“When it comes to Amity, I don't just know. I don't always know what she's thinking or what she wants from me. After all this time, I-I shouldn't still be trying to figure her out,”

Luz wanted to figure her out. Every time she was in her orbit, she wanted nothing more to turn over every last piece of that girl and find every hidden gem.

But now, it like she was barricaded. Something was keeping her from moving forward, from discovering Amity.

“I mean, we've kissed.” The memories of Amity were turning more and more bittersweet by the second “I told her I loved her! We had our happy ending already! A-at least I thought it was a happy ending. But we're not acting like people who are made for each other are meant to act!”

“How do you even know how people who are meant for each other are meant to act?!” Hunter demanded, as though it wouldn't reach Luz's skull unless he raised his voice. “In all the love stories you've read, it always ends with a kiss, doesn't it?”

“And--”

“And miscellaneous fluff. Yeah, I get it.” Hunter shooed the detail away before clearing his throat.

“Point is, they never talk about what comes after. You don't read about all those awkward talks where they decide if they're dating or not and talks about what they're okay with and what they're not. It always just cuts to the perfect, shiny romantic stuff, all tied up with a bow and because of that,” He clutched Luz by the shoulders.”You don't know how to move forward in a relationship 'cause you've never had a frame of reference to help you along.”

“Hey, that's not true!” She tore away from Hunter's grip. “I'll have you know that I imagine my favorite ships as couples all the time,”

“Yeah and lemme guess,” He droned, setting a hand on his hip and launching into a mockingly saccharine tone of voice. “They understand each other soooo well all the time, they can practically read each others' mind and everything is smooth sailing and peachy all the time.”

“Yeah, duh.” Luz didn't quite what he was making fun of. “That's what being a ship is all about.”

“Okay, fine, maybe, but I cannot stress this enough,” He ran his fingers through his hair before making a cutting gesture with the side of his hand, directed at Luz. “You are not a ship.”

“Well, yeah, obviously. I'm only one--”

“I mean that the two of you aren't a ship! Listen to me, you're not Azura and Hecate. You're Luz and Amity. You're real people. You've got like a million different emotions and they're messy and crazy and you don't understand most of them.”

“Okay, Hunter, I get it, I'm a hot mess. You don't have to rub it in.”

“We're all hot messes, Luz!” He exploded. “Every single one of us. 'Cause we're real and not book characters.” He was pacing back and forth now as he ranted and raved, gesticulating like a madman.

“We gotta handle all the awkward conversations that don't fit into books. You gotta talk to real people to get them and you can talk to them for years and years but you're never gonna entirely understand them. In your love stories, it's all kisses and happy endings and it's shiny and sparkly and perfect and nerds like you Eat. It.Up!”

Hunter emphasized his point by poking Luz's forehead, shocking a startled laugh out of her. As wound up as he was, the noise surprised him too.

Her laugh was contagious and soon the room was silent, expect for the sound of quiet, breathy giggles.

One of the knots in Luz's stomach had untangled itself. Hunter did make a point that she could understand. Yeah, okay, maybe she had been a little too wrapped up in fiction to successfully navigate through her own life. Luz had never been the most logical person so it was comforting for a levelheaded counter-argument to whatever was currently inflaming her anxiety.

Obviously, this didn't fix everything. Now, she understood why this wasn't easy but that didn't mean she magically knew where to go from here.

Once the shadow of Luz's smile had finally faded away, she looked up and studied Hunter for a long while. Her gaze may have been a bit intense as nervousness began to creep into his features.

“H-hey. Uh. Sorry if I was a little too--”

“Huntifer, I think you might be on to something with this one,”

He blinked at her before brightening with relief, shrugging it off. “Oh. Yeah, maybe. I dunno, I guess it's worth some thought.

Astonishing how Hunter could switch from the cockiest, most obnoxious kid in the Boiling Isles to a remarkably humble guy. Maybe it depended on context. Or he was just embarrassed that he sorta lost control of himself in his impatience.

Luz nodded. “I'd say a lot of thought. But..I think things are still gonna be awkward. With Amity. I still don't know how I'm supposed to talk this stuff through with her.”

Hunter snorted, loosely folding his arms over chest and resting his weight on one hip. And just like that, with that simple change of posture, he looked full of himself again “You wanna know a secret that's probably not much of a secret?”

He beckoned Luz to lean in closer and said in a stage whisper. “Amity probably doesn't know either.”

Huh. Yeah, Luz knew that. She knew that at the back of her mind but...she hadn't really thought about it much. She was a little too preoccupied with her own inexperience.

Hunter's lofty grin softened. “So, it's a good thing neither of you are doing it alone, right? Don't you think you could figure out how together?”

Figure out how together....

The realization sank from the surface of her mind, and everything was processing very fast then suddenly, everything clicked.

Amity.

Luz knew Amity. Luz trusted Amity. Luz loved Amity. If there was any person Luz believed would stumble alongside her through things they didn't quite understand yet, it was Amity. And it occurred to her that Luz would help Amity in return without hesitation.

With enough notches and trimming and smoothing edges, if they worked through this together, Luz and Amity could click too. Maybe not perfectly, not for a while just yet.

But enough that they could make each other happy.

A swing of confidence so strong flooded Luz's system, she swore she nearly collapsed. She felt the grin tugging at her mouth.

She could try. She could absolutely try. They could both try.

“Is...that a yes?” Hunter asked, gauging her expression.

Luz nodded so speedily, it made her head hurt. But then she realized something else and she turned a very specific look on Hunter.

But before he could ask if she was about to attack him, she held up two fingers on each hand and then placed them on either side of her head so they jutted out just behind her ears.

“Man, I don't know anything about that stuff,” Said Luz, in what she believed to be an uncanny imitation of Hunter's voice.

He frowned. “What are the theatrics for?”

“You lied to me!” Luz was delighted.

“I-I didn't lie!” He loudly objected, pointed ears scorching bright pink. “That was just common sense, you doofus. You know, that thing you lack.”

“You know, that thing you lack.” Luz parroted, swinging her hips from side to side. Once again, her impression remained flawless.

“Don't do that!”

“Don't do that!

“Stop, you weirdo!”

“Stop, you weirdo!”

At the peak of riled up, Hunter floundered for a retort that Luz wouldn't shoot back at him with childish mimicking. But then he cracked and wound up sticking his tongue out at her.

Luz simply mirrored him and Hunter huffed indignantly, turning on his heel and stomping back towards his books.

He had barely made a few steps when Luz lunged at him from behind, draping her long, lanky arms around his shoulders.

“Wha��Hey! Get off!” He squawked, struggling to pry her off him as Luz squished her cheek against his.

“Huntifer~” She singsonged. “Can you please calm down for two seconds and let me say thanks already?”

Hunter knotted his arms and his scowl didn't soften but Luz didn't miss how he stopped trying to squirm out of her grip.

“Even though you were kinda rambly and all over the place, what you said helped. It helped a lot. I know this is something I can handle and I know that 'cause of you. Thanks, nerd.”

She waited patiently until she felt his shoulders loosen. And then he glanced back at her and there was a smile. A small, tight, subtle smile but it was good enough for Luz.

And then with a burst of adrenaline, she gripped him tighter and planted a big, wet raspberry on his cheek.

Predictably, Hunter blew his top. He screeched furiously and his hands went wild to push her off but Luz was stronger than she looked. And so help her, she would give Hunter this affection or die trying.

Dying trying did not seem unlikely, actually. Hunter had told her once before that if he ever murdered her, it would probably be her own fault. Luz could not argue with that.

“That is so gross!” He griped, once Luz had finally released him.

“You're gross~” She chirped, practically bouncing on the balls of her feet.

Hunter wiped the spit off his cheek with his palm before looking up at Luz with narrowed eyes

Luz did not have time to brace herself and suddenly she was tackled to the ground. She kicked and she screamed as Hunter dragged his disgusting wet hand across her face.

“GrossGrossGrossGrossGrossGrossGroooooss!”

Hunter cackled maniacally the whole time.

They carried on like rowdy toddlers for a while until Luz had to go meet Amity, leaving Hunter and his palisman to themselves.

It was too weird to admit out loud but he was disappointed that she was gone. Hanging out with her like this wasn't that bad. Talking with her, arguing with her, wrestling with her. It all made Hunter feel....so much like a kid.

Something that he had realized recently was that he still liked being a kid.

In spite of the doom and gloom of white of gold, of the clawed scars in his shoulder, of the spear that grazed his hair, a spark of childishness remained in Hunter that had never been entirely snuffed out.

It wasn't until he met Luz that he began actively trying to keep that spark alive.

The sun had long since fallen asleep by the time Luz returned and the moon was pooling in the sky. A little after sun down, he heard the downstairs door slam shut and the loud exuberant voice of The Owl Lady boomed from the floorboards beneath him. By the sound of it, she was celebrating a successful day's work. Hunter wondered what she and the cute little demon had managed to steal today.

His snoozing palisman was tucked snug in the crook of his neck, a pleasant warmth against his skin. It was a good idea to keep the bird close. If someone other than Luz came barreling into the room, he'd better have his staff on hand to magically conceal himself.

But once an hour passed and the chatter of the witch and the demon below gradually faded into loud snoring, Hunter presumed they had passed out on the couch. For the time being, he should be fine.

Hunter hoped that creepy owl tube thing wouldn't rat them out. Fortunately, Luz had promised that Hooty was willing to take a bribe but unfortunately, gossip spread fast in the Boiling Isles. Now The Golden Guard had a reputation for being a lunatic who visited the night market several times, buying dead mice in bulk.

He snorted to himself, combing through 'From Bones to Fire: A Study of Wild Magic Volume 2'. Everything he went through just to get his hands on knowledge.

Well, also to be young with Luz.

Yet another hour passed and somehow, being surrounded by his own obsession, Hunter got a little overstimulated. To give his brain a rest, he was now flipping through some tattered old magazine that Luz brought with her from the human realm. Some of the articles were practically gibberish to him but overall, it was okay. He learned he was a Scorpio. He didn't know what that entailed but it sounded cool.

He nearly jumped out of his skin as Luz burst into the room, announcing her return.

Startled, his palisman flew into a fluster, cheeping like crazy before it settled down atop his head. Hunter, meanwhile, had flung the magazine away so fast, it was like it had contaminated him, and snatched up the closest book to pretend he was reading it the whole time.

Thankfully, Luz didn't notice.

“Hey there, Little Rascal,” She cooed, prancing across the room and plopping down next to Hunter. “And hey, you little bookworm, you.”

“Bookworm?” Hunter knocked his shoulder against hers. “You looking for a fight, kid?”

“Whaaaat? Hunter, you wound me, I was just....Ohhh, my bad. I always forget that our bookworms and your bookworms are two waaaay different things.” She paused thoughtfully before shaking her head. “Actually, I don't retract anything. You look like a bookworm.”

“Yeah, well, you smell like a selkidomus.” Hunter smirked.

“Hey!” Luz bumped their shoulders. “Can you blame me? I've had one heck of a day with lots of nervous sweating!”

He was surprised that got him laughing but that tended to happen around her.

“So, how'd it go?” Hunter asked, even though he already knew the answer.

Luz's beam was as bright as a dozen of her light spells. The corner of her lip was twitching, as if she wanted to smile wider but it was physically impossible.

“We're dating.” She stated, no more than a whisper.

It obvious since the moment she entered the room, far bouncier and bubblier than usual but Hunter still grinned.

He had expected her to scream it from the rooftops, to grind his ribcage into powder with the force of her hug, to set off a riot of firework glyphs, spelling it out in lights.

No matter how she could have chosen to tell him, he would have been just as giddy as she was.

And yet, despite the lack of fanfare, somehow, it still felt so much like Luz. Though he knew that in the morning, she would tell the entire Boiling Isles, right here, right now, only Hunter knew. Something about that felt nice.

But the quiet serene scene was momentarily ruptured when Hunter spotted Luz re-adjusting herself out of the corner of his eye and he was immediately on high alert. Another raspberry, he could sense it.

“Luz, don't you d--”

It wasn't a raspberry.

The feather-light peck against his cheek was gone before he fully processed it, as Luz drew away with that big stupid smile still plastered on her face.

Hunter blinked away the surprise, looking to her with a raised eyebrow.

“What's that look for? In this family, we give each other hugs and kisses~”

He felt his lip quirk upwards as he scoffed, turning away with a shake of his head.

“That was so gross.”

“You're gross.”

“For real, it was even more gross than the raspberry.”

Luz burst into giggles and Hunter could understand why everything was suddenly a million times funnier to her. She will still fizzling with that giddiness that Amity had kissed into her and now it was all spilling out.

To be honest, listening to a teenage girl gush and squeal about her girlfriend did not seem like something Hunter would ever willingly subject himself to.

But this was Luz. His friend, Luz.

He lightly pinched the pudge of her cheek. “Heeeey. You wanna tell me all about it, don't you?”

Luz snapped her head over to gawk at him, astonished. And then the excitement took hold and her hands started flapping and she looked about ready to explode with delight. Her mouth was already flying open to give every solitary detail of her evening with Amity Blight.

But then she stopped, a crease forming on her brow. He caught that unreadable look she gave him and the way her eyes skimmed over the books that scattered the floor around them.

“Hmmm.” She stroked her chin with an over dramatic 'thinking' face. “Y'know what? I'll think I'll keep it all to myself.”

“Oh, really~?” Grinned Hunter. “I can only imagine all the romantic schmaltzy sickening stuff that occurred tonight. Miscellaneous fluff, right?”

Judging by the blood that stained her cheekbones, he must have been correct.

“Hey, Hunter.” She said quietly, resting her weight against his side. “You've been lost in your books for hours now. Would you mind telling me all about the most interesting you read about today? Reading myself is fine but it's way better to hear all about it from a bona fide nerd.”

Frankly, it was embarrassing how fast the giddiness practically electrocuted him and suddenly he found himself rambling. He rambled until his voice gave up but it didn't bother him at all because it was just Luz.

Luz hung on every word he said.

[kermitbread]

putting this here too. it's been a while since I've written anything proper and I've finished this on someone else's computer (I make do lol)

it's also in my AO3 :) ok see ya

Caw, caw, caw.

It was now dusk, the air becoming cooler now that the sun was setting. Everything was silent, from the far away cries of birds up in the sky, to the sound of a swing being pulled back and forth by the children's playground nearby.

The clouds were almost covering the sky, letting the sun illuminate through with a pretty red-orange color. As the wind began to pick up a little, Nene could feel that it was going to get real cold any time soon.

The clackety noise of a bicycle made her turn around. Well, she should have known. Amane always took the same path home as her, and automatically that made them companions everyday.

He pulled the brakes, letting his bike go to a halt. "Didn't I tell you to wait for me, Yashiro?"

"You were busy with Astronomy club, and I didn't wanna bother you." She admitted. Knowing how busy he was ever since he got the position as president of the club, she didn't want to waste too much of his time.

He chuckled, shaking his head as he got off his bike and set it on its stand. "You're never a bother to me, you know."

Nene had to avert her eyes away from him, her grip on her bag's strap tightening. It's times like this that made her feel so… strange. Just being around him would probably make her heart explode, with all the nonsense he would say.

"Hey, Yashiro. Look up over there." Amane's voice guided her back to where he was pointing at. The clouds slightly parted, and she could see the outline of the sun slowly descending downwards.

"The stars are about to come out. I heard there's gonna be a lot out later on when it gets a bit more dark, cuz the clouds won't be in the way for at least a few minutes."

Stars. She didn't know why, but hearing Amane talk about the stars felt comforting, somehow. Seeing his eyes brighten up at the mere mention of them, it was always a welcome sight indeed.

Nene heard him walk up to her side, and unexpectedly take her hand. "Let's go over there a sec!"

"Amane-kun, I'm gonna trip!" She tried to stop the red grazing upon her cheeks, staring at their intertwined hands together.

It was really not fair how he had her feeling this way so much.

He only laughed, proceeding to pull her along to the playground, right towards the swings. Upon reaching the first swing, he let her hand go at last, and she couldn't help but miss the warmth they brought from the chilly air.

"We're not little kids anymore, you know." Nene smiled regardless, sitting on the swing beside him. Amane was known for being the mature one out of him and his brother, but that didn't mean he didn't have a childish side to him.

"Swings are still fun, though. Age doesn't really matter here." Amane grabbed the handles, stepping on the seat of the swing. It wobbled around, worrying Nene.

"You're gonna fall, get down from there."

"Don't worry! I'm used to this." He started swinging back and forth, but Nene couldn't help but remain worried. What if he fell and broke a limb, or even worse—

With one last push, Amane stopped the swing from moving, hopping off, arms up in the air. He turned to Nene with a big smile on his face. "Ta-da!"

"You're lucky you didn't hurt yourself. That was dangerous, Amane-kun."

"You need to relax, Yashiro." He went back to the swing and sat down properly this time, kicking his feet forward a little.

A comfortable silence followed between them. Aside from the sounds of the chain swings going to and fro, and Amane's feet kicking up the dirt below, it was just peace and quiet.

The sun was now near the lower edge, and the stars finally clearly visible right up the darkening sky. Nene looked back at Amane, and was rather taken aback by the sight before her.

He wasn't looking right at her, but he had his eyes up at the stars above. The setting sun illuminated his figure, and it pretty much made him look like some kind of extraterrestrial being.

In a good way, of course.

"Hey." He finally averted his gaze off the sky, turning back to her. "You think there's anything out there that's watching us right now?"

"You mean like aliens?" She asked, and he laughed, as if the question had sounded silly, which it was.

"Something like that, I guess. But have you ever wondered about the possibility that there's something out there, probably light years away?"

Nene hummed, making the swing she was on go back and forth a bit. "Not really. What brought this on, Amane-kun?"

The sun had since long gone, the moon now taking its place up the sky. She couldn't help but notice how Amane's face brightened up at the sight of the moon, and once again it was something that somehow gave her a strange sort of comfort.

She wondered if she did the same to him, in some kind of way.

"I want you to know… that I really really like you, Amane-kun!" The phrase hung around her mouth for so long, all she needed was a little push for it come out.

How would he react, though? Would he accept? Would he just take it for her as one of her jokes? Knowing him, he'd definitely not take it seriously.

Maybe it was best she didn't say that out loud. Not like this, anyway.

"It might seem weird if I tell you." He stopped kicking on the ground, letting the swing gradually come to a stop. Nene shook her head at that.

"I'm sure it won't! You can tell me."

Amane contemplated for a second, the both of them looking at each other intently. Seeing no doubt in her expression, he gave in, turning back to the moon.

"Remember the time we first met? Back in middle school."

Of course she did. It was an important day to remember, after all.

"Yeah." She answered, not really sure where this was going. The nightly air became a bit more chillier, and she rubbed her arm, trying to get herself to stop shivering.

"I found you sitting by that swing you're on, bawling your eyes out." Amane rose both hands to his face, making a mock-crying pose. He had to swivel backwards when Nene tried to shove him off the swing.

She huffed angrily, glaring at how he could only laugh at the whole situation. "For your information, I was suffering a terrible heartbreak that day!"

"Ah, yeah. That jerk of a senpai who turned you down."

"Are you bringing this up just to make fun of me?!" She couldn't see how anything good was coming out of this conversation.

"No, no, it's not like that at all." The teasing tone he had in his voice faded to something more sincere. One by one, the light posts around them lit up as the sky darkened more, and the stars popping up at every corner.

"It's kinda weird, but I was kinda glad you were there that day."

Red eyes blinked owlishly. At her confused expression, Amane let out another light chuckle, leaning himself forward so that his elbows were propped on his legs, head tilted at her.

"I believe there's something out there looking out for you, Yashiro. And I think that's what lead me to meeting you in the first place."

Ah.

Why was her heart beating so fast again?

"L...like a guardian angel? Don't be silly, Amane-kun. You out of all people should know that." Nene waved her hand at him, trying to dismiss his words and the fact her cheeks were beginning to turn red yet again.

He got off the swing, walking towards her and squatting down in front of her so that she could see him face to face. Something tells her he was being serious about this.

"How else would you explain this?"

"Eh… uh… explain what?" It was hard trying to get into eye contact with him without getting flustered about it.

"You, me. An unsuspecting couple of kids. We literally don't match up in terms of how we want to live our life. Yet, here we are." To further prove whatever point he was carrying across, he removed both her hands off the handles of the swing and led them to her lap, their fingers intertwined and all.

Suddenly it didn't feel so cold anymore.

"Something out there cared enough to let our paths cross that day. It knew I'd care enough to stay by your side. Don't you think so?"

She felt frozen on the spot, unable to do anything but watch him, as through the street lights, through the soft shine of the moon, he smiled.

"...yeah. Yeah, I do. I really do." Almost mindlessly she nodded. She had to be careful; she didn't know what she'd do if her heart had bursted from all of this going on.

"To be perfectly honest, I was also happy you came along, Amane-kun." Now her gaze turned shy, preferring to look at the ground below them than right at his eyes.

"You're annoying, you're a perv most of the time, and you never take anything seriously…" She had to grin a little when she could feel Amane grimace at those words, like he had been struck physically.

Finally gathering up her courage, she lifted her head back up, her smile directing to him. "But things probably wouldn't be the same if you hadn't sat there next to me and spoke like my life depended on it."

Here goes nothing.

Nene leaned forward, pressing a soft kiss to his cheek, and if you think about it, they were awfully looking like a princess giving her knight a reward for his duty.

Doesn't sound too bad, to be honest.

"So thank you, for heeding that call. Thank you for being there by my side."

Amane became a little flustered from the sudden act of affection, as he could only sit back up rigidly and nod. He had a silly little smile on his face, though, and that was enough to know what he was currently feeling.

There were so many words he wanted to say to her, so many things he wanted her to know.

"I want you to know—"

"Y-yeah." Was all he could muster out as a reply.

Nene giggled at his unusually shy demeanor, standing up from the swing and picking her bag up to her shoulder. "Well, it's getting dark out now. Let's go!"

To his surprise, she was the one who grabbed onto his hand first, and she was the one who was now dragging him along the path, smiling all the way.

That crooked, goofy grin of his came back, as he just let her lead him far away, never taking his eyes of her.

"—that I really, really like you, Yashiro."

[athina-blaine]

“But squid is good, right? Want to get the calamari as a start?”

“Yeah, squid’s okay.” Mia’s phone buzzed and she glanced at it. She sighed, a sound that spoke of endless suffering. “But I think I’d rather have the cobb salad.”

“Is that your dad? What, is the squid going to give us food poisoning?”

“Yeah.”

Natalie laughed, but Mia hadn’t looked up from her menu.

-

Natalie Wilson just wanted her date to go well.

For @there-is-no-right-way​

Chapters: 1/1 [Complete]

Words: 3,505

Tags:  POV Outsider, Parenthood, Fluff and Humor, Dating, Cryptid Dads Cramping Their Teenage Daughter's Style

~

Taking one last moment to fix her hair in the mirror, Natalie leaned back in her car seat with a haggard sigh.

It was just dinner and a movie. Her and Mia literally ate at a Red Lobster and watched the new Magician’s Crescendo just last week. This was the same thing.

She pressed her face into the steering wheel.

Except that it wasn’t.

They were girlfriends now.

It wasn’t the same thing at all.

Without giving herself time to put the car in reverse and speed into the nearby pond, she shouldered the door open.

Relax. This was Mia they were talking about. Even if the date ended in Natalie absolutely humiliating herself, Mia would just take it all in with that adorable, secret smile of hers. They’d be fine. Their friendship would be fine. It’s fine. Natalie was fine.

She pressed the doorbell, trying to focus on its pleasant chiming as opposed to the panicked dance of her heart. The door opened and Mr. Sims was there.

“Right on time, Miss Wilson.”

Some of the stiffness left her shoulders. Miss Wilson. So posh. Pip pip tickety whatsit, and so on. A hoot and a half.

Mr. Sims smirked, and a heat rose to her face. Was she being obvious?

“Is, uh, Mia ready?”

“Just about. I believe she’s finishing up her hair. Come in.”

Mr. Sims led them through their tidy living room and into the kitchen where Mr. Blackwood was crouching over a pan. Looked like fish. The smell of garlic and spices wafted over her and her mouth watered. Man, she was starving. 

“Smells good, Mr. B.”

Mr. Blackwood looked up from the pan and smiled. “Thank you.” Lowering the heat of the stove, he turned towards them, wiping his hands on his apron. “You look beautiful tonight.”

“Aw.” She futzed with her short black skirt, which still had traces of cat hair, despite her efforts with the lint roller. “Thanks. The earrings are my mom’s, though. She’s letting me borrow them.”

“It suits you, love.”

Mr. Sims nodded his agreement. “Your mother was telling us about your violinist audition. How did that go?”

“Oh, man.” Her fingers had gotten completely tangled in the last bar and when the scout had said, Good luck on your performance, she had said, Thanks, you too. “I think it went okay. I don’t know, the scout was kind of standoffish. I don’t think she like the song I played.”

“You did fine. She was just battling a bout of indigestion.”

Natalie chuckled, but Mr. Sims’ expression didn’t change. He did that a lot, actually. Just saying these strange things, confident in stuff he shouldn’t be confident in. Perhaps it was just an unusual style of British humor?

Mr. Blackwood nudged his husband’s side.

“Go check on Mia, Jon. She won’t want to keep her date waiting.”

Thoughts of Mr. Sims’ oddities fled her head. Her date. That was Natalie, Natalie was Mia’s date. They were talking about Natalie and Mia. And their date. Their date.

She was so absorbed in the comment that she only somewhat processed the look Mr. Blackwood gave his husband. Something akin to the look her mom gave her when she rambled on too long about her true crime podcasts. Mr. Sims scrubbed the back of his head, the closest she’d ever seen him to looking sheepish, before making his way up the stairs.

Natalie prepared herself for more small talk with Mr. Blackwood, but there was a thumping sound, a yelp, and a moment later, Mia came charging down the stairs.

“I’m so sorry!”

Natalie was incapable of responding at first. Mia had curled her soft brown hair into ringlets and her eyes sparkled. She was wearing the necklace Natalie had gotten her for her birthday last year.

“So,” said Mr. Blackwood, “dinner and a movie, is it?”

“Yep,” Mia said as she rounded the corner, throwing her arm around Natalie’s shoulder. Natalie’s stomach swooped.

“Yeah, uh, we’re going to see that new Haunting’s Row movie.”

“Sounds like fun. Did I ever tell you where my husband took us on our first date?”

“Dad.”

“A library. And not even to the parts where everyone went to make out.”

“Dad.”

Mr. Blackwood laughed, either not noticing or choosing to ignore his husband’s scowl. “Well, you two have fun. Try not to stay out too late.”

“We won’t,” said Mia, herding Natalie towards the door. As Natalie walked down the drive towards her car, though, Mia turned to her fathers in the doorway.

“Be cool tonight, okay?” she said, her voice low. “Especially you.”

“Why especially me?” Mr. Sims asked. The glare he received from both his daughter and husband was enough to scorch Natalie ten feet away.

“I’ll make sure he behaves,” Mr. Blackwood said, clapping a hand on his husband’s shoulder. “Have fun, sweetie.”

Mia pouted scornfully for good measure, before leaning up to plant a kiss on both their cheeks and turning with a wave. The two of them loaded into the car and Natalie flipped on her selected playlist for the evening before backing out of the driveway.

“Oh, I love this song,” Mia said, and Natalia flushed at the praise, having carefully curated this playlist over the course of the last five days. Everything had to be exactly right, after all.

 “So,” Natalie started once they reached the highway. “I was thinking of that Thai place over on Victoria and 8th. What do you think?”

Mia was about to answer, but her phone dinged.

“Oh, just a sec.” Her phone clicked at she unlocked it. In the corner of Natalie’s eyes, she could see Mia’s nose scrunch, just a bit, the way it did whenever she was irritated.

“That your old man?”

Mia put her phone away with a sniff. “Yeah.”

Natalie raised a brow, waiting for an answer. Texts from Mia’s dad that got her to make that face were always interesting. Seeming to sense her expectation, Mia huffed.

“Giovanni’s place is doing free cannolis with a large pizza.”

“Oh, awesome,” Natalie said, flicking on her blinker to turn right at the next exit. “Your dad always knows the best deals in town. I don’t know why you get so grumpy about it.”

“I guess it’s not impossible he could have found it online or something. He's way too lame for that, though."

Well, yeah, where else would he have found it? The newspaper? Actually, Mr. Sims seemed like the type to still read newspapers.

“Your dads are awesome. My mom still shows off the doilies Mr. Blackwood made for her last Christmas. I love it when he calls me love, too. It’s so,” she tried to find the words and failed, “British.”

“Why, yes, British people in Britain.” Mia looked out the car window. “Have we moved countries since last I checked?”

“You know what I mean. You Englishmen with your adorable little accents.”

“We don’t have accents. You have an accent.”

“Don’t be silly.”

“Say aluminium.”

“That’s not fair.”

“Say it. A-lu-min-i-um.”

Natalie made a face. “A-lu-min-um.”

“You’re missing an entire I.”

“I am not. Americans don’t spell it with that I. We’re efficient like that.”

Mia settled back in her seat with a terse sound. “Efficiency, bastardization, whatever you want to call it.”

They both only lasted a few moments before bursting out into giggles. Their exit was fast approaching, and Natalie checked if the lane was clear.

“So, Giovanni’s?”

“Yeah, it’s hard to say no to a free cannoli.” Then, she added in a low grumble, “Even if it’s cheating.”

Natalie shook her head. She just didn’t get Mia sometimes.

As she drove down the darkening road, she glanced cautiously to her side. Mia’s hand was resting on the center console. Just sitting there. Probably cold, you know?

Holding her breath, Natalie crept one hand off the steering wheel and over to Mia’s (doubtlessly cold) hand. When she touched her wrist, Mia startled, and Natalie flinched back. Dammit. She should have asked first.

Then, Mia smiled and took Natalie’s hand, interlocking their fingers together. Oh, that was smooth. Mia was so smooth. Her heart pounded in her ears as her world shrank to the single point of their joined hands.

“Slow down!”

Whoops.

 Natalie’s only ever been to Giovanni’s once before, when she and the gang were skulking around downtown for carbs after Mia’s soccer practice. It was nicely decorated, and the lowlights set the intimate mood Natalie wanted.

However, the place was nearly empty, on a Friday night, no less. While it suited their purposes, she suspected there was a reason why the desserts were free.

The hostess jumped at the sight of them but led them both to their seats.

“So,” Natalie began, flipping through the menu. “Toppings.”

“Definitely green peppers. Onions, too.”

“No onions.”

“What? You love onions.”

“Yeah, but, you know,” a damning heat rose to her face, “for later.”

“Oh.” Mia’s lips curled as she stared at her menu. She cleared her throat. “I brought mints, okay?”

Oh, mints. Genius.  Why hadn’t she thought of that? “Okay, onions. Pepperoni?” Mia scrunched up her nose. “Oh, right. Miss I-Don’t-Like-The-Best-Pizza-Topping.”

“Look, you wouldn’t be so hot for it either if your dad was telling you about all the crazy butchers he’s run into as a bedtime story.”

“Right, right. The, uh, what was it? Bonepuller?”

“Boneturner. And he was a dickhead. Turned my dad’s bones right out of him.”

“My mom wouldn’t even let me watch that Disney movie about the kid vampire. You ever thinking about writing down some of those spooky stories? You and your dad are so imaginative with that sort of thing.”

“Nah, that stuff’s boring.”

Like a story about an invasion of parasitic flesh worms was boring. No accounting for taste. Perhaps Natalie would have to take it to paper herself someday. “But squid is good, right? Want to get the calamari as a start?”

“Yeah, squid’s okay.” Mia’s phone buzzed and she glanced at it. She sighed, a sound that spoke of endless suffering. “But I think I’d rather have the cobb salad.”

“Is that your dad? What, is the squid going to give us food poisoning?”

“Yeah.”

Natalie laughed, but Mia hadn’t looked up from her menu.

She took after her old man far too much, in Natalie's opinion.

 The movie theater, unlike the restaurant, was packed. They waited in line for fifteen minutes and when they entered the auditorium, only a few scattered seats remained.

How hadn’t Natalie seen this coming? It’s not like Haunted Row 3 wasn’t the most highly anticipated horror event of the summer! She shouldn’t have insisted on that cheesecake alongside the cannoli, but Mia loved cheesecake. What were they going to do now?

Mia’s phone chimed again. Natalie turned, hopeful, like a dog to a bell. Yanking her phone out, Mia scanned the text, lips puckered like she was sucking on sour candy.

“There’s some seats over there.”

Natalie turned around, and, yeah, there they were. Two seats shoved in the far back. Not ideal, but better than nothing. She was equal parts relieved because the night wasn’t ruined, and stunned, because how? She glanced around the movie theater, not sure what she was looking for, but sure, whatever it was, was looking right back at her.

“I’m going to make a call real quick,” Mia said as they claimed the seats. She brought the phone to her ear, turning away from Natalie and lowering her voice to a waspish whisper.

“Hello? Jon! You said you wouldn’t— It was implied— Give Dad the phone. Do it. Dad? Yeah.” Mia nodded. “Yeah. Bury him in a board game or something. Okay. Yeah. Yes, Jon, I love you, too. Okay. Bye.”

She turned back to Natalie with a smile, a smile Natalie tried to return, but she felt it came out rather shaky.

“You said your dad worked with security cameras or something, right?”

“What? Pft. No, he’s a teacher at Frederickson. Where did you get an idea like that?”

“Uh—”

The movie started. Mia shushed her and Natalie glared, but settled in.

 They only got halfway through the before Natalie fled the auditorium with trembling legs and a pounding heart. She splashed her face in the bathroom, trying to control her breathing. The door opened, and Natalie looked up to see Mia in the mirror, and she groaned.

“I told you to wait. You’re missing the movie.”

“It’s Haunted Row. Everyone dies but the virgin and the dog, the end.” Mia put a hand on Natalie’s back, rubbing in soothing circles. “I don’t understand why you take us to these horror movies when you get scared so easily. They always give you nightmares.”

“They don’t always give me nightmares.”

Mia lifted a brow. With a frustrated sigh, Natalie shook off her hand.

“I mean, I guess I just like it.”

“How can you like it? You were about to burst into tears.”

“I don’t know.” It was hard to put into words, how being afraid made her feel. “You know how you like spicy foods, right? It hurts to eat, but it still feels good?”

Mia nodded.

“Well, it’s like that. I just like feeling that way.” She turned to the mirror with a sniff, grabbing a bundle of paper towels. “The bit with the spider was a bit much, though.”

“Don’t tell my dad. He’ll go on for hours on how adorable spiders are and that everyone else is just mean.”

Oh, Natalie was aware of the monologue. With a wet chuckle, she patted her face dry, thankful her mother had suggested the waterproof makeup that night. “Well, let’s go back.”

“You sure? I think they’re playing that new superhero movie further down.”

“I’m fine. I want to see the dog live.”

They took their seats back, and as the movie continued, dread slowly slunk back over her. If she curled up a little tighter into Mia’s side, however, well, that was okay, especially when Mia wrapped her arm around her shoulders and pulled her in close.

Things weren’t so scary after that.

 Natalie pulled up into the driveway, and that was it. Date over. But her shoulders were still stiff with tension.

She knew what she wanted to do, but how did you go about actually doing it? None of the articles were clear on that tidbit, in her opinion.

“Here we are,” she said.

Mia hummed, making no effort to leave. That was a good sign, right? But Natalie was still frozen in place. Oh, god, this was a nightmare.

“Don’t move.”

Natalie jumped. Mia was reaching towards her with both hands and gently brushed her shoulder. Her face became hot, but when Mia pulled back to reveal a spider in her palm, she leapt back with a shriek.  

“How can you just hold it like that?”

“Dad used to have a pet tarantula when I was a kid.”

Oh. Yeah, that made sense. She wasn’t expecting an actual explanation.

She slumped in her seat. The hysterical giggles started small at first, before they began wracking her entire body. “You’re so cool. I can’t believe …” Sobering, she swallowed down the words. “Well, I’m just glad you wanted to, you know. Do this. Together.”

“Yeah, I, uh,” Mia ran a hand through her ringlets, which had slowly relaxed and fuzzed over the course of the evening. “I’ve been wanting to do this for a while. I think you’re pretty cool, too.”

Mia was still leaning over the console, much closer than before.

“Is it alright if I kiss you?”

Natalie could just barely manage a jerky nod. They had forgotten the mints, but that was okay. It was simple, just two mouths gently pressed together, but it was Mia, therefore, it was perfect.

“I should probably get you inside,” Natalie said when they parted, her insides warm and gooey.

"Yeah, maybe."

Natalie was halfway up the sidewalk when she turned, expecting to find Mia by her side, but Mia was by the car. With her hands still cupped, Mia was furiously whispering at the little speck of a spider. Good grief, she could be a strange one, at times.

Gently depositing it on the ground, Mia straightened, clapping her hands clean. When their eyes met, she smiled, before gesturing to the house.

Strange, yes, but there was something oh so loveable in that strangeness.

“We’re home,” Mia announced as she burst through the front door. Her parents were crouched over the living room table, playing a game with cards and dice. Mr. Sims was so absorbed, Mr. Blackwood had to nudge him with his elbow, and he reemerged with a confused mumble.

“Did you have a good time?” Mr. Blackwood asked.

Natalie nodded. “Yeah, we had a great time.” She turned to Mia. “I should probably head out, I promised my mom I'd come home right away. Study group tomorrow?”

"Yeah, sounds good," Mia said, dropping a kiss on Natalie's cheek. "Remind Greg it's his turn to bring snacks, okay?"

Natalie was too flustered by the kiss to come up with a response, and Mia waved as she raced upstairs. Mr. Sims got up from the table to walk Natalie to the door.

“I’m glad you had fun.”

“Thanks. And thanks for all the, uh, tips. They really helped us out.” She glanced down at her fidgeting fingers. “I really wanted tonight to go well.”

“Oh, don’t thank me. I’m rather in the doghouse for it. Nothing less than what I deserve, I suppose.”

“Yeah, I was wondering, though. About the, uh, movie theater seats?” She scrubbed her arm. How to phrase it? “Were you …?”

Mr. Sims stared. His eyes were so piercing.

“Never mind, it’s nothing. I should probably get going.”

Mr. Sims smiled, and there was a peculiar quirk to his lips. “Drive safely. And, again, don’t worry about the audition, I’m sure the scout loved what you played. Who doesn’t love Adele?”

He always had kind things to say. As he closed the door and Natalie turned to leave, she had a thought.

She hadn’t told anyone she was playing a pop song, not even her mom. It had been too embarrassing deciding to play such mainstream music, but it had been the only song she was confident in playing.

She turned, wanting to know who had told him, when she saw it.

Eyes.

Dozens and dozens of eyes.

The door closed with a definitive click!, but she could still feel it. Her legs were glued to the ground, waiting to be pushed into a fight or a flight. Forcing herself to move, she stumbled back to her car, and she had the most peculiar sensation that she was standing in front of an audience waiting to laugh at her.

Her hands shook on the steering wheel as her chest effused with fear. Real fear, not the pre-packaged popcorn fear from a scary movie, although she wouldn’t have even been able to make that distinction ten seconds ago.

A text tone pulled her out of her stupefaction.

>call me if u can’t sleep tonight, ok? <3

The tension hissed out of her body like a steaming kettle. She looked up and, in the window, she could see Mr. Blackwood and Mr. Sims arguing over something on the table. The board game, probably. Mr. Sims wasn’t looking at her. In any sense.

An old memory came back to her. It was only a few years ago, just before she started high school. Her dad had come to visit, and it had ended badly, as it usually did, and she had stormed out of the house, as she usually did.

She had walked and walked and walked until her legs hurt and the clouds turned from white and fluffy to dark and menacing. The road had stretched on and on behind her. She couldn't make it in time.

Then, a familiar car had rolled over the horizon and stopped just in front of her, and her mom's head popped out of the open window, crying and spitting fury and fire and ‘what-were-you-thinking’s. Mr. Sims was in the driver’s seat, watching her. Seeing her. His eyes had been soft and concerned.

She blinked. Mr. Blackwood and Mr. Sims were still in the window, only they were laughing now. Mr. Sims kissed the side of his husband’s head before they moved inside and out of sight.

She didn’t know what she knew, about Mia or her fathers or any of it. But there were a lot of things she didn’t know, right? The ocean was the epitome of unknowable, but she and Mia were still planning a trip to the beach at the start of summer vacation, you know?

Snapping the car in reverse, she craned her neck to make sure no one was coming down the lane.

And hey, her mom used to be in a cult when she had been a teenager.

Every kid’s parent had something weird about them, right?

[autismgavemychildvaccines]

Why I’m Ashamed to Be Christian

So, now that I am literally sick of the Measles nonsense (no, fucking literally, working 12+ hour shifts on an incident management team has got me sick and tired enough to call in tomorrow), I’ve decided to do a non PH rant, though it’ll for sure rear it’s fucking head somewhere in here. Instead, let’s tackle something real fun. Religion! Time to buckle up.  In my half fucking awake daze that I was just nudged out of, something really wild hit me. My faith, my belief in a very specific God with a specific book (though I admit that other religions, so long as their origin is not a company or a tool to oppress others on the outset, are valid/likely just as true) makes no God damned sense.  (For reference, here I will claim my most closely related sect as my own; American Evangelism [though if one were to ask in person I’d say “non-denominational”, but historically, the two are close] and will be speaking as a part of a community I used to closely belong to but now have drifted away from on some granola-crunching dumbassery that is “I am a church of one” bullshit. I’ve wanted to be other things, but ever since I left the Freemasons, fuck all else has had much appeal.) So, first things first, Garden of Eden, right? Pretty fucking cool place, some might have even called it a perfect garden, a perfect place for humans and God to interact? But here’s my hang up with it. The trees of Life and Knowledge, and the rule that Adam and Eve could eat of any fruit except those grown upon that pair. Why even fucking have them?

 When I asked that as a kid in a faith based area, they said because it was a test.

 Of what?

 “Well, of our loyalty to God and our Faith, of course”. 

Except again, what the fuck? Like, I get the idea of free-will, in fact I am a huge believer in individual free will (I’ll get to that in a sec), but here’s the stickler here. As any other creative type will tell you, we want our work to take on a life of its own. Like say I wanted to program a remarkably bright AI, and it worked, and all I wanted was for it to recognize me as its creator and to discover and enjoy what home I could make for it. You know what I wouldn’t do? I wouldn’t give an AI, even with some simulated free will, the ability to break certain rules. For example, I wouldn’t allow it unrestricted access to the internet or my personal accounts. I wouldn’t even give it the concept that such things existed, let alone put it right fucking there to be used. That would be a flaw, an imperfection in an otherwise perfect place. And yeah, there’s something to be said for giving free will with not-free consequences, sure. But two things: 1) Don’t be pissed when the thing happens that you allowed to exist in the first place and thus forced it to be a mathematical certainty now that you’re dealing with perhaps the most curious species to ever exist.  2) Don’t go blaming them for a lack of faith. If anything, it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, an act that abusers often use to get what they really want and have a thin veneer of an excuse to make happen. Now doesn’t that sound a lot like a good number of the followers of this faith, as opposed to an almighty, omnipotent, powerful being? Hmm, something to consider there, maybe.  Speaking of followers, let’s actually also take a look at some of the prophets that we as American Christians often hold so dear. Now me? I’m a Luke guy, I like Luke. Peaceful, loving gospel for the most part, and I dig it. Peace and love, baby, that’s all I want coming from stories regarding a higher power that we had to hang up like a fucking tapestry to make sure we got all that love. But do you know who I fucking hate, and who I blame the most for how the American chruch is? Paul/Saul of Tarsus. Thiiiiiiiiiiis prick. This fucking Deus Vult Vulture. Actually in many ways, he really is the archetype to the Modern Evangelical fucking anything. Actively participated in the harassing, attempted extinguishing and successful terrorizing of a marginalized group. Then after being hit back for it, literally “seeing the light” and trying to be the fucking vanguard of said group only to lead it down a path where he’s suddenly the appointed expert of anything to do with the issue. And while he does this, he helps create the most violent and bigoted thoughts in the whole of the religion, and is praised for his visions as he says they are truly from God, and can thus act oh so righteously. This right here is a fucking problem, y’all. Like, I know the whole forgiveness idea allows for some mental gymnastics on how this could even happen, but even then to make a genocidal ass-face your de-facto leader aside from Christ himself for the next 2000 years is a fucking flip that even at the 1988 Olympics, if Christians were America, Russia would give them a straight 10/10.    And yet, for many of us, that’s exactly what we’ve done. Hell, we’ve even fallen into the forced victim narrative of the synopsis of this asshole:  “Oh well, you see, I was a heathen and thus I couldn’t help myself, but then like, the God of the people I was killing talked to me and like, now I have to do this (Take on the “burden” of leading the church) as penance for what I couldn’t help myself over.” We’ve fallen for it so much, that it may as well be hard wired into our nervous system to believe anything resembling it, just as we assume if something is flat, green and on a tree, it’s a leaf.  Maybe it’s why we as a religion (and let’s face it, other Abrahamic religions as well) are so damn good at beating down the marginalized while screaming that we are the saints, we’re the sacrificiers trying to make things better. Like, let’s have some modern day fun with this bullshit, man; let’s see how we treated and in many places continue to treat women.  Of the few churches I have been to, 100% of them had one dual-sided message that made me real fuckin’ uncomfortable, fam:  Part 1) That women cannot be trusted onto themselves and thus 2) Men must take control of them and society to not allow for some unspecified “Ridiculous bullshit”.  (as a fair heads up; I do fully recognize non-binary, trans individuals, etc, but for the sake of brevity I’ll be mostly referring to M/F in the traditional sort of way, because opening up Christianity’s treatment of anything regarding gender fluidity is a Ph.D. thesis for another day)  Now, I don’t know about y’all, but I know damn well that out of all the dudes I know, and all the lasses I know, they’re a pretty mixed fuckin’ bunch. It’s almost like their gender assigned at birth doesn’t really affect how reasonable they could be as people nor how much responsibility they should have. Obviously some cultural practices skew this quite a bit in so far that women are expected to take more responsibility, younger, and for less praise, but if anything that should help destroy, not reinforce that message.  And yet, the idea persists so much in Christian circles. And not just by the men themselves, but the women, also. For the longest time of my church going days, the pastor was a woman. She wholly believed it was just and right that her husband be in charge of everything, that women should be loyal to their men in all aspects. Then again, she also (despite recruiting members primarily from college) did not believe in evolution at all, so there’s that in terms of an intellectual hurdle. But regardless, this inherent submissive attitude within the faith (and even the half-hearted and self-congratulatory “Yeah but we REALLY are the ones making the decisions because we can withhold sex if we want” is essentially that too just a smidgen more empowering), when combined with the idea that men should be wholly in-control (which is a breeding ground for toxic masculinity if there ever was) is shameful. It’s what has allowed so much bullshit in the past, including these recent abortion laws. Now, I’m going to cover abortion in another post (I might get to it tomorrow; It’s been on the burner for weeks), but it’s super pertinent here.  We, as a religion, have allowed ourselves to tell women (just as we tell/told minorities before) that they cannot be trusted with their own bodies, that they cannot be trusted when they speak, and most certainly cannot be trusted to truly hold dominion over anything. And that has allowed the most insidious, hateful, bigoted, disgusting things to happen in the name of God. A God that while I am writing this post I still believe in, but my doubts about how genuine the message has ever been is hitting home. One whose words about peace have been ignored when they could be interpreted or pointed to to support war, where the rich can profit off the poor, or to support sexism, because we as men historically have wanted to control “everything of ours”, or to take the very free will we claim to hold so dear from those who need the ability to make their own decisions the most. Words that have been used to hold down good people from making lives better. Words that in the hands of those who wanted, could be profaned and desecrated and thus allow for profane and disturbing events, both on the grand stage of the world and behind the closed doors of any house in some small town. Words which are held up with a wink and a nod so that followers feel included when they are scammed by some fucking fried chicken joint who wants to make more money to fight against equality, or to pay for another $9 million jet for some asshole who croons about how the poor should be grateful they do not have the temptations of the rich.  To other followers, do you not lament that we are this way? That we have been this way for so long? Because I fucking do.  And to those who have been discriminated or marginalized or whatever else against because of your gender or skin colour or situation or victimization or  past deeds of any sort; I’m sorry. Genuinely, truly sorry you have suffered as you have. Sorry for what people have done thinking it was somehow morally or spiritually justified, sorry that they thought they were saving you. And I can assure you that I will never try to lead you as those before me have tried to. Though if it’s all the same, I’d like to get to hear you, and walk beside you. 

[ragingstillness]

Questions I have for Marvel part eight

Avengers 2:

1. Bruce falling on Natasha’s boobs. Why? This isn’t a hentai.

2. Why does being infertile make Natasha a monster? Why? WHY JOSS WHEDON WHY??????

3. Wanda and Pietro are canonically Jewish. Sure they would sign up for a Nazi organization. Sure...

4. They are also in an uncomfortable incest relationship in the comics and I can’t tell if they decided to sort of commit to that or not? They’re awfully touchy, but it’s also not super fair to the characters who played lovers in a movie they did right before this one.

5. Also, why is the worst possible injury a woman can suffer one to her reproductive system? Like, fostering and adoption still exists? Does she have a job conducive to kids anyway?

-Natasha isn’t defined by her reproductive potential. This plotline could just as easily have been used to support the bastardized super soldier serum the red room puts in its participants.

6. Why the Bruce/Natasha romance? It came out of nowhere? And had no chemistry? And meant nothing in general?

7. How can Natasha not get out of a cage while fully equipped? Is it because they’re making her a damsel?

-I think it’s because Whedon wrote it...

8. What is up with Wanda’s accent?

-It comes, it goes, where it stops, nobody knows.

9. Where is Sokovia geographically? I know it’s a fake place but I’m curious?

10. If Coulson is leading the Avengers to where they are at the beginning of the movie do they know he’s alive? Do they?

11. Why does nobody ever use their finishing move when they could be punching and kicking?

-I could put this for anything but I’m putting it here.

12. Why do action scenes always supplant any actual conversation and emotional depth, always?

13. Why do the Iron Legion robots speak English rather than Sokovian?

14. Pietro knocks Cap down and messes with Hawkeye but doesn’t actually try to do any damage to them?

15. Why does Tony go into the secret base without his suit?

16. Why can Hulk suddenly be calmed now?

17. Why is only Tony’s vision actually relevant to much of anything?

18. Why is Tony and Thor’s visions the only ones with actual violence or threat?

19. Why does Wanda only screw with Tony when she knows full well who he is and has a chance to kill him?

20. How does the Scepter keep getting passed around? I know the reason is in AOS but why didn’t Thor take it back to Asgard along with Loki in the first place?

21. Why do we get zero explanation as to why Pietro and Wanda have the powers they do and how they got them?

22. Why does Tony only tell Bruce? I get that it’s in his nature to not trust very easily and ultimately this turns out to be kind of a good move considering how they turn on him immediately but why? Like, this is important? Why not tell anyone?

23. Why does Ultron think humans are the danger? He says it a lot but he never really says why? Is it because we war and aren’t very environmental? Give us something.

24. Is JARVIS dead and gone or isn’t he?

25. If Ultron was almost entirely uploaded to Vision how is Vision more JARVIS than Ultron and why is Ultron not weakened by losing some of his consciousness like that?

26. Thor gives Stan Lee Asgardian liquor as if it won’t hurt him?

27. Why is Ultron immediately creepy? He could have just been cold and calculating?

28. Why are Tony’s armors so beatable when Ultron controls them?

29. Knowing the little I do know from my computer science major, how did Ultron manage to upload himself to the internet? He has to be stored in a server somewhere and there aren’t many sites able to host code of his size without crashing. Couldn’t they track him through what looks like random DDOS attacks?

30. How was Thor tracking the Iron Man suits?

31. Why go straight to threatening Tony physically Thor? In all other movies you are very conscious of your own strength and have grown as a person?

32. Why is Tony immediately accused of knowing a black market arms dealer?

-It’s like the writers just took everyone’s characterization back to the first avengers movies. Oh, this was written by Joss Whedon too? That explains it.

33. Presuming Ultron did manage to get into the internet, how can he still control suits?

34. How did Ultron do manual repairs on himself?

35. Why do Wanda and Pietro just go up with Ultron immediately?

36. Why does the guy who gets his arm cut off (I used to know his name I’m just forgetting it now) not bleed to death near immediately?

37. How quick is Pietro? Enough to be spotted?

38. Why is Wanda immediately forgiven for the people she hurts, the time she set the Hulk free, and all the stuff she did for Hydra in a snap and just joins the Avengers out of nowhere?

39. Why does Clint bring the damaged team to his wife’s house as if that’s not going to put them in danger? It somehow doesn’t but it’s really irresponsible?

40. Is Tony just the machine whisperer now? Why is there an assumption that because he knows cars and suits and phones that he knows farm equipment?

41. Why does Thor just peace out for a sec and really nothing comes of it as by Thor 3 he has been looking for the infinity stones and hasn’t found any of them? In fact he leave several on Earth. Did he think he could just ask around and find them by word of mouth?

42. I love Hawkeye, but not MCU Hawkeye, and he hasn’t been shown to matter enough or have enough personality to get this much attention?

43. Why is Cap knocking Tony’s attempt to do something good?

44. Why does Cap think he’s Sun Tzu when he fought in limited combat in one war and then only was on the front lines for like two years?

45. Why is Fury here? Does he just pop up whenever there’s a pep talk to be had?

46. Do the Avengers have a PR team or anyone who cleans up after them? We learn later the second part is Tony but what else?

47. Why are there water spirits and magically stuff that Thor knows exists on Midgard, the famously non-magical planet?

48. How does Helen not die from Ultron stabbing her? Also why is she not in this movie more? And are she and Maria dating? (Her crush on Thor is cute until you realize she’s one of four female characters in the movie)

49. Why does the Cradle do what it does for Ultron? Isn’t it supposed to just heal injuries, not give life?

50. Does Cap’s shield come back to him or not?

51. When did Pietro and Wanda decide to betray Ultron? And if they switch sides that quickly who would trust them and why didn’t they revolt against Hydra earlier?

52. Why bother with making Natasha connect with Bruce on his “monsterness” when they could easily have extrapolated that similarity seen in the conversation with Tony?

53. Also why would Tony bother calling Bruce a monster? Seems kind of rude.

54. Why does Thor basically Frankenstein Vision to life? Is this actually happening?

55. Why doesn’t Ultron kill Natasha?

56. Where did the random crater come from for Natasha to push Bruce into?

57. Why doesn’t the Hulk kill her for that?

58. How does Wanda feel Pietro’s death?

59. Why can Hulk fly a quinjet?

60. Why does nobody make jokes about Thor having a strand of Loki’s hair braided into his own?

[landprince]

What happened?

Are you okay?

Please message me back. I’m worried about you.

Sora? Are you there?

Sora stared at the screen of his phone, watching the messages flash by in rapid succession. His thumb hovered just above the keyboard, yet he made no move to actually formulate a reply. Riku had been texting him almost nonstop since helping him home, and while his best friend did deserve answers after watching him hack up flower petals, he really had no clue what to tell Riku that didn’t sound accusatory.

Those flowers? They’re because I love you. I’m so lovesick that it’s actually making me sick. Sora scoffed at the thought and allowed his arm to fall to the bed, the phone still held firmly in his grip so it didn’t clatter to the floor and possibly shatter the screen. His mother had enough to deal with, buying him a new phone shouldn’t be on her plate as well.

His heart fluttered in his chest as another message came through and caused both the phone and his hand to vibrate. Almost as quickly as the gooey, happy feelings appeared, they were forced back down and causing his stomach to sink along with them.

Guilt crept in, lacing its way through the stems of the flowers in his lungs. It clawed in deep, making him feel sick for even the smallest bought of joy. Did he deserve to feel happy while his mother suffered so on his behalf?

He could hear his mom downstairs crying, her sobs just loud enough to be carried through the halls to his room. Those wretched, mournful cries immediately cut away whatever happy feelings might have started to develop by Riku’s influx of messages.  

When Riku brought Sora home, she had immediately started crying and hadn’t stopped since then, too engulfed by the fact his disease was getting worse. Sora knew she desperately wished he would have the surgery and remove the flowers that were slowly killing him, but they all knew it would most likely be futile and Sora would regrow the foliage in his chest.

He just cared too much. It was his greatest strength, as well as his biggest flaw.

Even if the feelings and flowers were removed with the sharpest of scalpels, there was a high chance of them returning. Sora had accepted what was going to happen, but for her, his mother, it must be awful knowing your child was going to die and there was little to nothing to actually do about it.

How sad it must be to watch someone you cared for die by something as common as love. His parents had been in love for close to twenty years. However, their love didn’t produce enough flowers in their lungs to run a small florist shop. Why was he fated to suffer for his feelings?

Sora fidgeted on his bed, kicking away the blankets that were twisted around his legs. The comfort the weight of a blanket usually brought him now suffocated him. Putting his phone aside, he continued to wiggle around on the bed, desperately trying to get comfortable and ignore the nagging feeling that he needed to tell Riku something before his best friend panicked enough to send an ambulance after him.

Exhaling a shaky breath, Sora grabbed his phone once more and held it above his head as he went through the messages. Each of them were worried and growing in panic, if the increase in typos were any indication, the last few practically begging him for some sort of response. Sora’s thumbs drummed against the sides of his phone as he thought about what he could say.

His stomach was in knots as he tapped the keys.

Meet me in the Secret Place in an hour. I’ll tell you everything there.

The small rowboat bumped against the tiny pier where he and all the other kids tied off their boats when they came to the island. Letting the boat steady itself against the waves for a moment, Riku was relieved to see Sora’s own boat already tied off and waiting for his return.

At least he didn’t blow him off. Since Riku had helped a convulsing Sora home, the boy had ignored every message Riku had sent, and the older teen had become increasingly frustrated and worried in turns by the radio silence.

He had no idea what was going on. Sora’s parents had pretty much shooed him out as soon as Sora passed the threshold of their home. He was given the formality of ‘we’ll let you know what’s going on later’, and so far he had heard nothing. He had tried calling their house phone, but those went as unanswered as his texts to Sora.

He and Sora had been best friends almost since infancy. Sora was the one person Riku could tell anything to. In fact, he usually was the first person Riku went to whenever anything occured. Was he foolishly misguided in thinking he in turn was Sora’s confidant?

Climbing onto the pier, Riku bent and tied his boat down so it wouldn’t float off into the night. His stomach was churning, threatening to heave at any given moment, but he valiantly fought it down as he rummaged in his pockets and pulled out the flashlight he took from his dad’s garage earlier.

Flicking it on, the darkness of the island didn’t seem as spooky as he made his way over the shoal and into the brush. There weren’t any dangerous creatures here, at least, so he wasn’t constantly flicking the light between shadows, but the dark still unnerved him a bit and kicked up his pace as he tromped through the thick underbrush the island held.

Pushing aside large leaves, he made his way towards the rocky center, eyes squinted as he searched for the almost imperceptible hole that indicated he was near the Secret Place.

Swallowing back the nervous energy that had been creeping along his spine for the last few minutes, he furrowed his brows as he swept the light over the rocks. It was almost invisible during the day, but at night it would be almost impossible to find the entrance to his and Sora’s hideaway.

“Sora!” He called out, hoping his plea could be heard. “Are you around?”

“Riku! I’m in here already.” Came the muffled reply. Did the voice come from the left or in front of him?

“Dude, I can’t even see where the hole is,” Riku gruffed, pushing aside more leaves and sticks, he huffed softly as he met bare rock. “Keep talking so I can try and find you.”

“Uhm, okay. Did you bring any snacks with you? I didn’t have a chance to eat before coming here.”

Riku paused for a moment before shaking his head and chuckling at the question. “Why would I think to bring snacks? I was more worried about you, you dolt. I didn’t think we needed a picnic while I asked you what was up with earlier.”

He must have touched on the delicate matter too much, because Sora went silent for a few heavy moments afterwards.

“Sorry about that… I didn’t mean to ignore you. I just---” Sora trailed off, and Riku would bet five munny he had that adorably confused look on his face as he tried to piece together his words. Riku loved that expression.

“It’s alright,” Riku replied. He let out a sigh of relief as the brush parted just so and the entrance to the cave was revealed. “Finally found the entrance. I’ll be in in a sec.”

Stooping over, he awkwardly made his way through the tunnel until he could fully stand once more. He was a rather tall guy now, and the tunnel hadn’t really been explored since they were kids. Once he could fully stand again, he spent a few seconds stretching out his back, thankful that it was at least a short walk from the mouth to the spacious cavern inside.

Sora had a flashlight on the ground in the middle of the stone room, the light pointing upwards and helping to illuminate the area around them. It was dim, but he could see Sora standing in front of one of the heavily drawn on stone walls, hands tracing the childish art upon it.  

Placing his own flashlight alongside Sora’s, Riku walked up behind Sora, merely watching him trace the artwork with near reverent fingers. They used to hang out here a bunch as children, and the walls were testament to that. Nearly every reachable surface was claimed by some scribble or something akin to art.

“When did we stop coming here, Riku?” Sora asked, turning only slightly so his face was masked in shadow.

Riku frowned at the question. “When we we hit double digits, I think.”

Sora hummed, letting his hand fall away from the stone wall as he turned to fully face Riku. A wane smile was on his face. “Do you ever want to go back to then? Where all we had to worry about was if my dad was going to drop us off here so we could play all day.”

Cocking his head to the side, Riku took a tentative step forward. Something seemed… off about Sora. “Sometimes, yeah. I’d rather be with you all day than stuck in math class.”

A sparkle of laughter glimmered in Sora’s eyes at that. “It was easier as kids, you know? There wasn’t much to deal with or much to care for.”

“Sora? What’s going--”

“I’m dying.” Sora interrupted, voice rising in pitch on the last syllable. He was trembling now, head bowed as he clenched his fists against his sides.

Riku felt his tongue turn into sand, dissolving into his mouth and taking any replies he could give along with it. Tears pricked his eyes and he rapidly blinked them away, but all he could do is stand there dumbly and watch as Sora’s shoulders bounced as he fought back tremulous sobs.

“There’s no cure,” the brunet pushed on. “I-- Well, I can have surgery, but it’s no guarantee that anything would change. I could be in the same condition again later. There’s nothing I can do, and it’s not fair, Riku!”

Sora was right, this wasn’t fair.

“How long?” Riku rasped out, finally able to find his tongue and make it force the words past his lips. “What is it? Are you sure there’s nothing that can be done?”

The world felt as if it was constantly shifting, and one wrong move would have Riku in the dirt. So he took careful, slow steps until he was holding Sora in his arms, spiky brown hair brushing up against his chin and nose.

He could feel Sora tremble against him, hands clenching Riku’s shirt for dear life before releasing it and pushing back to look up at him. The tears in Sora’s eyes and the utter loss in his expression was heartbreaking.

Sora turned his head quickly and began coughing, causing panic to course through Riku. Those same, heavy barks he had seen earlier in the day before petals began spewing forth from Sora’s mouth.

He murmured soothing words, hand rubbing comforting circles against Sora’s back and shoulder blades as the brunet eased himself out of the fit of coughing. It took a few minutes, and Riku was shaken to the very core as he watched flowers and petals both erupt from his best friend’s mouth.

Sora was sick.

There was no getting around it from the looks of it. And if Riku had to fathom a guess, he would assume those flowers were what were killing his friend.

“It’s incredibly rare,” Sora wheezed after his coughing started to subside. “But there’s a disease where flowers grow in your lungs when you’re....” Sora swallowed thickly, clearing his throat for a moment before brushing off Riku’s placating hands. “Well, when you’re in love with someone. And if the person doesn’t reciprocate these feelings you die.”

Riku didn’t know if he was supposed to laugh or not at that. A disease that happens when you’re in love? Sounded faker than anything he had ever heard before.

But he saw Sora viscerally cough up the flowers, smelled the pollen and distinct scent of daffodils. Hell, there was even some yellow pollen sticking to Sora’s lower lip. There was no way Sora would make up this elaborate charade just to get one over on him.  

“What do you need to do to fix it?” Riku asked, desperate now to help his friend get better. If Sora was telling the truth, then the best way to fix it would be to question the person who first caused these feelings.

He felt a little sick knowing someone out there caused such strong emotions in Sora that they were practically killing him, but being his friend, he’d push aside that jealousy and do whatever needed to be done to help. As long as he could keep Sora as a friend, nothing else mattered.

Sora fussed with the hem of his shirt collar, eyes darting everywhere around the room, but distinctly avoiding Riku. “It’s stupid. I’ll-- I’ll figure it out on my own,” he mumbled.

“Sora, we’re best friends, right?” Riku’s voice wavered as he asked his question. His stomach tightened almost painfully as Sora quickly nodded in affirmation. “Then let me help you. You said you’d tell me everything, right?”

The brunet violently shook his head at that. Riku’s throat ached with a desire to sob.

“There’s nothing you can do, Riku…” Sora tipped his head back and let his tears fall down his cheeks. “You can’t change these feelings, and I don’t want to feel like the monster who forces people to choose him just so he can live.”

“How am I supposed to go on without my best friend?” Riku shouted. He was pacing the small cavern now, hands clenching and unclenching against his side as his arms moved animatedly along with his words. “I’m just supposed to watch you die right in front of me? What about your parents, Sora? Surely they can do something to help.”

“There’s nothing that can be done, Riku!” Sora shouted back. His voice was getting hoarser, and Riku wasn’t sure if it was from all the crying, or the flowers that keep falling from Sora’s mouth. “I don’t want to lose my best friend just because of some stupid feelings!”

Riku froze at that, blood turning to ice at the declaration.

He stared at Sora, who was now openly sobbing, hands furtively trying to wipe away the tears and snot that ran down his face. “I’m sorry, Riku. I never wanted this to happen,” Sora said between hiccups and mewls of distress. “I tried to be a good friend, but I fell in love with you. And I hate myself for it every single day.”

Riku blinked, unsure of what to do. His heart was racing behind his ribs, threatening to burst forth and flop against the ground with the dirt and rocks.

“I’m sorry, Riku. I wish I didn’t feel this way.” Sora sprinted towards the entrance to the cave, unmindful of the flashlight he left behind as he scurried off.

Riku just watched as Sora ran off, unsure of really what to do. For a good handful of minutes he just stood there, staring blankly where Sora used to be.

If he accepted Sora’s feelings, did he really mean them? Or would he just be pitying the poor boy and make things worse? What was the right course of action in all this?

Grabbing both flashlights, he turned off the one Sora had brought and slowly made his way out of the cave.

[shalebridge-cradle]

The Big Night

(Here’s a fun, happy story where one (1) bad thing happens and is quickly resolved. Enjoy.)

Warning: Reference to non-consensual touching.

Veronica leans the back of her head on the wall, sighing. Bored, bored, bored.

Chandler had told her not to start writing in her diary, that picking her outfit would only take a few minutes at most. Well, it’s been ten, and if Heather wasn’t going to uphold her end of the deal, why should she?

She takes out the book out of her backpack and clicks her pen, starting with the date, drawing a little circle next to it.

Dear Diary, it’s that time of the month again.

She doesn’t get much time to stew in her pun-induced self-loathing once she hears the handle turn. A hand, holding three filled coat hangers, shoots out from behind the door.

Dropping her diary in her haste to get up, Veronica takes the prepared outfits carefully, checking them over. Red, yellow, green. Everything seems in order.

“Go put them in the trunk while we get changed,” the arm’s owner says, and Veronica works out it’s Duke speaking, “carefully. Heather’s gonna tear you apart if any of us show up tomorrow all creased.”

“The big sunglasses and the Red Bull/Coffee combos won’t raise any eyebrows, I’m sure.”

“That’s different,” Duke growls. “That just means we’ve been partying. I’m trusting you with my baby, Veronica, don’t push your luck.”

“Yeah, yeah.”

The door shuts, and that’s when Veronica remembers. She knocks.

“You didn’t give me your keys!”

The door opens again, and the keys to Duke’s Jeep hit Veronica square in the face.

-

She didn’t really mean to find out. Maybe. She isn’t sure, now that she thinks about it.

Even after Chandler inducted her into their little posse, it was more like the Heathers were work colleagues than friends. They weren’t cruel - not to her, at least - but there was an air of exclusion the Veronica just barely noticed.

Was it because of her love of books? Possible, but Duke read all the time. Because she was nice? Maybe, but McNamara at least pretended to be a decent human being. There was a reason she was treated as an outsider, and she couldn’t put her finger on what it was.

Veronica decided she’d make an unannounced visit to Chandler’s place, just one, before she would write it off as paranoia. Or maybe an inferiority complex. Both, she’d go with both.

So, in her curiosity, she went up the two flights of stairs (and had to reorient herself each time), she trudged down the hallway to Heather’s bedroom (regretting her decision with every step), pushed down the door handle (the only lever-styled handle in the house) and pushed the door open.

Three sets of orange eyes stared back at her.

Veronica closed the door, screamed at the floor for about five seconds, then opened it again.

“Okay, let me get my last words out before I become a pile of miscellaneous body parts. I know it’s you, your fur’s the same color as your hair. Yellow,” Veronica points to the wolf near the window, “black,” the wolf by the TV, “orange,” the wolf on the bed, “Heather, Heather, Heather. I get why you didn’t tell me, but here’s the thing, you were at no risk if you did. One, no-one will believe me if I say something, and two, you could kill me if I do. Instead, you acted all secretive, and look how that worked out. Now everyone’s embarrassed.”

Duke briefly tilted her head in the universal gesture of ‘fair enough’. No pack takedown came, so Veronica slowly started backing out again.

“I’m going home. You better believe that once you regain the power of speech, you have some explaining to do.”

Chandler went ‘boof’ and McNamara flattened her ears as Veronica shut the door for the final time that night.

She was called into an impromptu conference in the girls’ bathroom the Heathers had claimed as their own on Tuesday. Admittedly, the territorial bullshit these girls engaged in made a whole lot more sense now.

“Full disclosure,” Chandler began, “we took a vote on whether or not to kill you.”

Veronica nodded sagely. “The nays have it, I hope. 2-1?”

“3-0,” McNamara corrected with no small amount of concern.

“We have use for you. As I’m sure you can imagine, none of us can operate a vehicle when we’re… like that. As great as my bedroom is, it gets boring.”

“You want me to drive you places.” Veronica briefly entertained the thought of taking three wolves through the McDonald’s drive-through, and had to stifle a laugh at the image.

Duke shook her head. “Drive us one place, and you’re not touching my car until next month.”

“Is that why you own a Jeep?”

“…No.”

“Any questions?” Chandler interrupted.

“Oh yes, many.” Veronica opened a notebook. She hid it well, but Chandler balked. “Why are you like this? Did you get bit? Is it a Heather thing?”

“Got cursed by some goth kid for being a bitch to ‘em.” Duke answered. Veronica wasn’t surprised to find they had learned nothing from it.

McNamara nodded. “We didn’t find out it was for real until later. That was awkward.”

The bell rang, and the four of them jumped at the sound.

As expected, Chandler recovered the fastest. “You’ll get to ask another one if you carry my books to class.”

Veronica rolled her eyes, but they both knew she was going to. The promise of knowing, of being included at last, was too good for her to pass up.

-

It’s actually a nice night. A little chilly, sure, but the stars are out and Veronica’s far enough away from any street light for them to glitter like tiny diamonds.

The Heathers’ hand-chosen location is a field on the edge of town. No cows, No animals at all – just an open field next to a smattering of trees. Perfect for running around in.

As soon as Veronica opens the door, McNamara is off like a shot, gone from sight before Veronica can register what just happened. Duke gives a huff, and follows her.

Chandler waits, and Veronica thinks at first it’s simply out of practicality (she’s in the front seat, after all, and even she won’t get off easy if she breaks Duke’s window). But, no. The door opens, the Big Red Wolf hops out, and Heather stares at Veronica expectantly.

“…What?”

No response. Not like Chandler can really yell at her like this, but even a growl or something would give Veronica some sort of indication of what she’s thinking. Slowly, looking over her shoulder for some sign of reproach every few seconds, Veronica gets the Heathers’ prepared outfits, lays them in the back seat with almost ceremonial levels of care, and moves back around to sit on the edge of the opened trunk.

Chandler watches the whole time. Veronica doesn’t really want to call her out on it, not when she can literally rip Veronica’s throat out.

Well, Veronica hasn’t been eaten yet, and potentially messing with Chandler’s clothes was the most likely trigger for her untimely death. She’s probably in the clear. Veronica fishes around in her backpack for her appropriately-colored blanket and her diary.

Blanket, super easy to find and smooth down.

Diary…

“Ah, shit.”

Chandler’s ears prick up.

“No, no, it’s nothing,” Veronica sighs, “I left my diary at your house. I’ll just take a nap, if that’s okay.”

Chandler huffed, climbing into the trunk next to Veronica. Veronica is shaken both by the sudden movement of the car and that sleeping was what finally got a reaction out of the alpha bitch.

Another pun. God.

“Well, what do you want me to do? I figure you don’t want to play fetch-” Chandler growls a little - “and I’m not running after Heather and Heather if I can avoid it. Besides, I’m the driver, aren’t I? The getaway girl. I need sleep if you don’t want to die.”

Chandler is glaring at her again, the amber in her eyes making her gaze as firey as the pits of hell from whence she was spawned.

Then, with a groan, she lays her head in Veronica’s lap.

Veronica freezes for two reasons.

One, Heather is really warm. She doesn’t want to risk scratching Chandler behind the ears, no matter how soft she looks, but the weight is comforting in a way she’s sure Heather didn’t intend.

Two, she just won an argument with Heather Chandler. And yeah, she’s at a massive advantage with the ability to speak, but still. Victorious at last.

It’s these two things that help her drift off. Someone warm next to her, and a happy thought.

Veronica wakes to the sound of howling.

She opens her eyes, and yelps in surprise when she sees Heather McNamara barreling towards her. Chandler, evidently just waking up herself, growls at her, before directing her anger to the source of Veronica’s suffering.

McNamara cowers for just a moment, before taking off in the other direction.

Then she turns back, waiting.

Veronica’s brain takes another few seconds to kick into gear, then to register that McNamara is expecting her to follow. Groaning, she throws the blanket off of her knees (and onto Heather, who makes her displeasure known) and climbs to her feet.

“What’s wrong, girl? Did Little Timmy fall down the well?”

McNamara just stares at her, before resuming her run-two-steps-then-look-back dance.

“Yeah, yeah, I’m coming. Gimme a sec.”

By the time she reaches the edge of the field, she’s running.

The first thought that runs through her head is that one of them has found a dead body. Worse, one of them has found a living person and it became a dead body through their intervention.

Thankfully, it’s neither of those things. Veronica hears before she sees – a faint sniffling before she sees a girl sitting with Heather Duke. A brunette, bespectacled eyes red-rimmed, a watery smile on her face as she strokes Duke’s back.

Veronica knows this girl.

“Betty?” The girl’s head snaps up, and Veronica grins. “Betty Finn! It’s been too long!”

She hasn’t changed much from middle school – still a little dowdy in her dress sense, sure, but Veronica wasn’t much better until recently, and the fact she’s trying to smile through her tears means her personality’s probably much the same as well.

Veronica mood dips once she remembers something’s made Betty cry. “What happened? Are you okay?”

“I’m…” Betty pauses, composing herself. “I won’t lie. I’d just gone on a date - my first real one - with Richie. He’s on the basketball team, and he’s been really handsy all night. When we got here, he started touching me all over, and I told him not to, but he…”

Veronica’s never heard of a basketball player named Richie, at Westerburg or otherwise, but she already hates him with every fiber of her being. She locks eyes with Duke – Veronica knows this is one of the things she just can’t stand. It explains her interference, at least.

“I hope you didn’t bite him,” she chides Duke, and the black wolf looks almost offended at the suggestion.

“Why? Is this your dog?” Betty asks. Veronica swallows.

“Oh, uh, sort of. I’ve been dogsitting for a little extra cash, and these guys needed a run outside.”

“Care to introduce me? I love dogs.” Betty smiles at Duke, and the black wolf practically radiates smugness, “Especially this one.”

Veronica’s mind races. Duke, what’s a female Duke – “That’s Duchess.” She points to McNamara, “The gold one is… Flash, and this one is -”

Her finger finds Heather Chandler. She knows she has to be careful with what she chooses, but if she spends too long picking a name, Betty will get suspicious. Lose-lose, really.

“…Foxy.” Veronica finishes.

She’s never heard a wolf laugh before, but Duke quickly disguises it as a yawn. Chandler tenses, but doesn’t move.

“Oh, I see. Because she’s kinda orangey-red?”

“YES. THAT IS THE ONLY REASON.”

“It’s a good name,” Betty agrees, bewildered. She pauses. “Um, I know it’s probably not the best time to ask, but can I go back with you? I got here in Richie’s car, and he’s probably gone by now. I’d rather not walk home alone, not out here.”

“Yeah, sure,” Veronica says without thinking, “I’m borrowing a friend’s car. I’ll drop you at your place before I take these guys home, does that work?”

McNamara whines.

“Oh, I know, but you’ll have another chance later. Betty needs to go home right now, okay?” McNamara flattens her ears again, but submits.

Betty smiles. “That’s good. Thanks, Ronnie.”

“Oh, no problem,” Veronica replies, but she knows it probably will be soon enough.

-

She drops Betty back at her place without further incident (Veronica sees her open her mouth to question the three perfectly pressed outfits, but Duke licks the back of Betty’s hand to distract her and saves the day once again), and the car ride back to Chandler’s place passes in a painful silence.

Veronica knows she’s dead, one way or another. For making McNamara upset, for reneging on her end of the deal, for calling Chandler foxy, but she also knows so long as she’s driving, she’s safe.

Her heart is beating out of her chest as she pulls up to the Chandler mansion. She puts the Jeep in park, she pulls the handbrake, and takes the key out of the ignition.

Nothing happens.

Oh, right, they can’t open doors. Veronica steps out and opens the back door, and waits for all three wolves to climb out before locking the car and heading up the driveway.

The Heathers head inside once Veronica unlocks the side door. Still no death. Maybe they’re just waiting for the right moment to strike, Veronica thinks.

“I’m gonna crash on the couch. Uh, the third floor one,” she announces, “if you’re gonna kill me, I’d rather be taken in my sleep, okay?”

She gets three very odd looks in response.

Veronica tries to put it out of her mind. A rational voice in her head tells her that they might not want to murder her at all, but this is hardly the night of rationality. She’s exhausted, her head hurts, and she’s been spending the night ferrying around three werewolves, for god’s sake.

She flops down on her bed for the night, not even bothering with her shoes, and she’s dead to the world.

If she wasn’t before, she might as well have signed the execution warrant herself for putting her dirty feet on Chandler’s couch.

-

Veronica wakes up the next morning.

Odd.

She’s relieved, of course – she was expecting to die, but that doesn’t mean she wanted to – but there’s a strange sensation she can’t quite place.

She needs to get up. Once she’s a little more awake, Veronica reasons, her brain will start working properly and she’ll figure it out. So, she stretches her legs (and quietly nurses the cramp that forms in her hamstring), tilts her neck from side to side, right to left–

And sees a very naked Heather Chandler resting her head on Veronica’s waist.

She tries to make her freak out as silent as possible, but clearly a whine or a squeak escapes her lips, because Chandler stirs. One eye opens to search for the source of the noise.

Then she sees it’s Veronica, and Heather grins a wolfish grin. When she speaks, her voice is low, husky, inviting.

“Foxy, huh?”

Veronica internally screams.

[lastmover]

2015 Berkshire Hathaway Annual Meeting (Afternoon) Transcript

1. Didn’t get Clayton Homes question in advance

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Everybody will settle down, we’ll move right along.

I want to clear up one thing. My daughter told me that because we had all those — I had — all those slides that were in answer to Carol’s first question, that Carol [Loomis] and I had discussed it ahead of time.

I will guarantee you that I’ve discussed no questions with anyone on the panel, and they will tell you the same thing.

But I knew I was going to be asked questions about Clayton, so I prepared the slides.

It was an accident that it turned out to be the first question, but it was certain to be in the first few.

So, Carol did not — Carol in 60 years has never tipped me off on anything, nor have the other panelists.

And everything — but we were — but I was — prepared for the fact that people would be asking questions about Clayton.

OK. Let’s move right along, and we’ll go to Becky.

2. Businesses that do best in high inflation

BECKY QUICK: OK. This is a question — oops, that’s not the question. Hold on.

Here it is. This is a question from John Wells, right here in Omaha, and he says, “You’ve described inflation as a gigantic corporate tapeworm. Which of Berkshire’s businesses are best suited to thrive during a period of high inflation and why? Which will suffer the most and why?”

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. Well, the best businesses during inflation are usually the best — they’re the businesses that you buy once and then you don’t have to keep making capital investments subsequently.

So you get — you do not face the problem of continuous reinvestment involving greater and greater dollars because of inflation.

That’s one reason real estate, in general, is good during inflation. If you built your own house 55 years ago like Charlie did, or bought one 55 years ago like I did, it’s a one-time outlay, whereas if you’re — and you get the — you get an inflationary expansion in replacement capital without having to replace yourself.

And if you’ve got something that’s useful to someone else, it tends to be priced in terms of replacement value over time, so you really get the inflationary kick.

Now, if you’re in a business such as the utility business or the railroad business, it just keeps eating up more and more money, and your depreciation charges are inadequate and you’re kidding yourself as to your real economic profits.

So, any business with heavy capital investment tends to be a poor business to be in in inflation and often it’s a poor business to be in generally.

And the business where you buy something once — a brand is a wonderful thing to own during inflation.

You know, See’s Candy built their brand many years ago. Now, we’ve had to nourish it as we’ve gone along, but the value of that brand increases during inflation, just as the value of, really, any strongly branded goods.

Gillette bought the entire radio rights to the World Series in 1939. And as I remember, it cost them $100,000, and for that they got to broadcast the Yankees, I think, versus the Reds in 1939.

And think of the number of impressions they made on minds in 1939 dollars for $100,000, and they were getting in the minds of young guys like myself. I was eight or nine. And millions of people — and they did it in those dollars then.

And, of course, if you were going to go out and try out and do — have similar impressions on millions of minds now, it’d cost a fortune. And part of that is due to inflation. Part of it’s due to other things.

But it was a great investment, which could be made in 1939 dollars that paid off, in terms of selling razors and blades in 1960 and 1970 and 1980 dollars.

So that’s the kind of business you want to own.

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, yeah, but if the inflation ever goes completely out of control, you have no idea how it’s going to end up.

If it weren’t for the Weimar inflation, we might never have had Adolf Hitler. It was the twosome of the great German inflation followed by the Great Depression that brought us Hitler. And think of the price that the world paid for that one.

We don’t want inflation because it’s good for See’s Candy. (Laughter)

WARREN BUFFETT: I didn’t quite realize I was —

CHARLIE MUNGER: No, I wasn’t criticizing you.

WARREN BUFFETT: What’s good for See’s Candy is good for the United States. (Laughter)

3. Organic growth vs. acquisitions

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Gary?

GARY RANSOM: Three years ago you noted that you had looked at a large commercial lines insurance company as a possible acquisition, and now you’ve started up Berkshire Specialty, which seems to be off to a good start.

What are your thoughts on whether that has replaced the idea of taking over — of buying or acquiring a large company, or is Berkshire Specialty doing well enough that you’re content with that —

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah.

GARY RANSOM: — organic growth?

WARREN BUFFETT: I would say that it’s almost certain that we — I don’t want to say 100 percent certain — but it’s almost certain we will not take over a large commercial insurance company.

We’ve got the ideal operation, in my view, in Berkshire Hathaway Specialty.

We’ve got the right people running it. We’ve got Ajit overseeing it. We’ve got more capital than any commercial insurance company in the world so that our securities are — and, therefore, our policies — are really better than anyone else’s.

So, we’ve got all these things going for us. And if we bought a big operation, we would have paid a very substantial nondeductible acquisition premium, and this way we’ve actually made money while we’re in the building stage.

And I think it can be a very, very big operation five or 10 years from now. So it’s almost zero probability that we’ll buy somebody else.

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, I certainly agree with you.

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. The — that’s how he keeps his job. (Laughter)

We’ll go to — incidentally, all the overflow rooms, including at the Hilton, got filled. I’m not sure where a couple — where station 11 is — but we always lose a fair number at lunchtime.

So I’m sure everybody can find a seat, but we do apologize to those who could not find a seat this morning.

4. Munger on reputation and behaving well

WARREN BUFFETT: Station 11?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. Hey, Warren and Charlie. How are you guys? Congratulations on 50 years.

WARREN BUFFETT: Thank you.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: So, in this year’s annual letter, Charlie wrote about the peculiar attributes that made the Berkshire system, and the leader of the system, a historically organizing entity — organizational entity.

So, my question to both of you is what practical mental model or mental models would you impress upon a young, enterprising individual at the infancy of their career to build an important enduring enterprise of that particular distinction and impact?

And if you could give, like, maybe some contrasting examples, like why is a Microsoft able to build itself into a dominating monolithic company, versus a See’s Candy, which can be a great enterprise to spin off cash flow but not necessarily be an enduring — or not necessarily enduring — but an impactful enterprise to the level of a Berkshire or Microsoft?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Thank you, Warren. (Laughter)

WARREN BUFFETT: You’re the guy that wrote it. (Laughter)

This is pineapple juice, incidentally. People were questioning that. (Laughter)

They say it’s good for your throat if you’re going to talk a long time.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Yes. Well, of course, reputation you get over a long period of time.

Very few people are like Charles Lindbergh where you just suddenly have a great reputation.

Most of us have to acquire one very slowly, and that was true in Berkshire’s case.

And any individual you just have to get the best reputation you can in the years you’re allotted and the time available.

And it may work out well, it may work out poorly. But it’s a wise investment.

I see, all the time, opportunities come to people where it’s the credibility they’ve gotten in the past that causes them to have the new opportunity.

So, I think hardly anything is more important than behaving well as you go through life.

And — I think we actually try to behave better as we got more prosperous, and I think you’d be crazy if you didn’t.

So, I’d certainly recommend that you follow those old-fashioned principles.

And I don’t think there’s any way of guaranteeing a total powerhouse brand, nor can — if a result is a one in 50 million-type result, you’re probably not going to get it.

WARREN BUFFETT: Gianni Agnelli of Fiat, back in — I think it was 1988 — I was at dinner with him one time, and he said something to me that stuck with me. He said, “When you get old,” he says, “You’ll have the reputation you deserve.” He says, “For a while you can” —

CHARLIE MUNGER: Fool people.

WARREN BUFFETT: — “fool people,” but he says, “When” — he was talking about himself at the time — but he said, “When you get to be my age,” he said, “Whatever reputation you have, it’s probably the one you deserve.”

And I think the same is true of companies. And, frankly, you know, it has helped Berkshire a whole lot that it has gotten a reputation to be a somewhat different sort of company.

I mean, I don’t think we set out to do that, exactly, but it has worked out that way.

5. Climate change risk for insurance subsidiaries

WARREN BUFFETT: Andrew?

ANDREW ROSS SORKIN: Warren, you have said that global warming has not increased Berkshire’s payouts for weather-related events. Yet, other insurers, including Travelers, have cited climate change as a risk factor that they use.

Are Berkshire’s models different and, if so, how?

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. No. I’ve seen the — of course, the SEC requires you put in all these risk factors, and the lawyers will tell you to put in, you know, everything possibly you can think of, you know, that you’ll develop Alzheimer’s or whatever it may be.

They just want you to have a laundry list so that it’s all been covered in case of later litigation or something of the sort.

So people do put in weather risk, and maybe they put it in because they’ve got some model that shows it. But, you know, we price our business — basically, we price it every year.

It’s not like a life insurance company. A life insurance company you make a contract that — so much a thousand. And if you buy whole life insurance, you’ve set a price for — if you’re 20, you may have set a price for 60 or 70 years in the future. But that is not the property casualty insurance business, which we’re in.

We set it one year at a time. And I see nothing that tells me that on a yearly basis that global warming is something that should cause me to change my prices a lot, or even a small amount.

That doesn’t mean that it isn’t a threat to humanity or — you know, and terribly important. It just means that if I’m going to sell a one-year insurance policy, and I’m going to sell it on a $1 billion plant, I may care enormously about the fire protection, and other various other kinds of protection, within that plant.

I may care about what’s going on adjacent to that plant, and all kinds of things, but I am not thinking about global warming. It does not change the situation, in a material way, in any one-year period of time, in my judgment.

And, you know, it — if I was writing a 50-year wind storm policy in Florida, I would think very hard about what global warming might do in that case to the incidence and the intensity of potential hurricanes.

But I do not think it has any material effect on the likelihood of — or the intensity — of a hurricane in Florida or Louisiana or Texas or — next year.

So, it is not a — it’s not something I would put in the 10-K as a threat.

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: I don’t think it’s totally clear what the effects of global warming will be on extremes of weather. I think there’s a lot of guesswork in that field, and a lot of people like howling about calamities that are by no means sure.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. Do you think — would it change your one-year prediction as to what the rate should be?

CHARLIE MUNGER: No.

WARREN BUFFETT: No. It wouldn’t change mine either, so I don’t really understand why they put that in there.

CHARLIE MUNGER: A lot of people get very invested. It’s like a crazy ideology.

It’s not that global warming isn’t happening. It’s just that you can get so excited about it you make all kinds of crazy extrapolations that aren’t necessarily correct.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. Look at it this way. Would you change the rate for tomorrow on insurance because — from the rate today — for global warming? I doubt it very much.

Now, you know, would you change it for 50 years? Might very well.

But I think that one year is much closer to one day than it is to 50 years, in terms of focusing on that factor.

So, I do not want our underwriters to sit there thinking a lot about — in terms of writing a risk or the price at which to write that risk — I do not want them thinking about global warming. I want them thinking about whether there’s a moral risk involved and who owns the property.

I mean, that can be very significant. There used to be one fellow called “Marvin the Torch,” that if you insured “Marvin the Torch,” global warming didn’t really make much difference. His building was going to go. (Laughter)

Marvin had a marvelous way of looking at it, though. He said, “I don’t burn buildings; I create vacant lots.” (Laughter)

6. More oil & gas investments possible despite poor record

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Gregg?

GREGG WARREN: When we look back at some of your bigger stock purchases during the past decade, two names actually stand out: ConocoPhillips and ExxonMobil.

In the first instance, you bought shares near the height of the spike in oil prices in 2008, later acknowledging that this was a mistake given how dramatically oil prices fell during the crisis.

While you’ve been able to swap some of those holdings, post a spinoff of Phillips 66 into operating assets, most of what you sold the last six years, by our estimates, has been at a loss.

Given that experience, it surprised some of us to see you take a meaningful position in ExxonMobil during the summer of 2013.

While it looks like you were able to eliminate that stake at cost as oil prices fell last year, these types of investments, which can be negatively impacted by the volatility in oil prices, don’t really seem to fit well with the other types of investments in your stock portfolio, many of which are built on strong franchises with unique competitive advantages.

With that in mind, and given the track record that Greg Abel and his team at Berkshire Hathaway Energy have had acquiring and investing in energy assets, does it make more sense to leave future energy-related investments in their hands?

WARREN BUFFETT: Well, there’s nothing we like better than to back up Greg in buying utility properties.

And — but they — we call it energy, but it’s not oil and gas in Berkshire Hathaway Energy, and they’re really in a dramatically different business than ConocoPhillips or ExxonMobil.

But we are looking, constantly, for opportunities for Berkshire Hathaway Energy to spend big money, and it will.

Berkshire Hathaway Energy, we paid $35.05 per share in 1999 to buy the stock.

I was at $35, and I don’t change my prices and Berkshire — the company was then called MidAmerican — they hired some investment bankers to come out from New York, and investment bankers spent a week here doing nothing.

But they felt — before they went home, they said, you know, “You’ve got to give us something because we’re going to send a big bill.” And I said, “Well, in that case, we’ll pay $35.05 and you can say you got the last nickel out of me.” (Laughter)

So my ambition ever since has been to have Berkshire Hathaway Energy earn $35.05 per share. It’s never paid a dividend.

It will probably earn about $30 a share this year, which is a great tribute to Greg and his management. But we will get the 35 or better because he will make some good deals.

It’s not at all analogous to the ConocoPhillips or ExxonMobil investments. As it turned out, we wrote ConocoPhillips down because we were required by the auditors to do it.

We actually, by the time we got all through, we made some money in it, and we made a little money in ExxonMobil, too.

But we will not be buying, very often, oil and gas stocks, but we will — we probably haven’t bought the last one.

In the end, we look at the cash, we look at available opportunities, both in investments and businesses, and we make decisions, occasionally, on buying something and sometimes we change our mind.

And that will continue that way. It’s been going on that way for a lot of years.

And we have not distinguished ourselves, at all, in the oil and gas field, although we’ve made a little money, and we passed up one or two where we could have made a lot of money.

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Yeah. And with interest rates being so low and the dividend on ExxonMobil being the size it was, it was not a bad cash substitute, if you think only in those terms.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. It worked out OK. There were other things we could have done a lot better, but that’s always been true and will continue to be true.

7. No “tears” for corporations on taxes

WARREN BUFFETT: Station 1.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Vice Chairman, my name is Andy Peake, and I’m from New York City.

First, congratulations to you on a remarkable 50 years, and second, thank you for hosting a one-of-a-kind annual meeting where you patiently answer questions from shareholders. I believe you are both — (Applause)

WARREN BUFFETT: Thank you.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: I believe you are two of the most knowledgeable and authoritative people on planet Earth on the U.S. tax code.

Our tax code is obviously broken at both the individual and the corporate levels.

Today, we have 2.1 trillion in offshore corporate cash sitting there not being brought home. We have the highest corporate tax rates in the world, and for high-income earners in the U.S., other than hedge fund managers, in states like New York and California, an all-in rate greater than 50 percent.

What can be done to effect real change to bring about a simpler, more rational tax code? Thank you.

WARREN BUFFETT: Well, it takes 218 members of the House of Representatives and 51 U.S. senators, and a president that will sign the bill.

The question is: how much you think the country should spend and then from whom do you get it?

And I would point out that despite the tax rates that all the corporate chieftains complain about, the share of earnings — share of GDP — accounted for by corporate profits is at a record.

Corporate taxes 40 years ago were 4 percent of GDP. They’re now running about 2 percent. They’ve decreased significantly while payroll taxes have increased.

You know, it’s a real question.

And once you get special provisions in the code, it is really hard to get rid of them, absent a major revision of the code.

I actually think — I may be an optimist on this, but I’m — I think both Ron Wyden and Orrin Hatch, the two ranking members, Senate Finance Committee, I think they’re capable of working out something that they — neither one of them likes — but they both like it better than what exists now, and I think it can be made considerably more rational.

But in the end, if we’re going to spend 21 or 2 percent of GDP, we should probably raise 19 percent of GDP.

We can take a gap of a couple percent without getting further into debt as a proportion of GDP than we are, so we’ve got that leeway.

But, you know, you take 19 percent of 17 1/2 trillion, or thereabouts, and you’re talking, as Senator [Everett] Dirksen said one time, real money.

And how much you get from corporations, how much you get from individuals, how much you get from estate taxes, you know, it’s a fight up and down the line.

So I — and in terms of the cash abroad, basically you can bring it back, you just have to pay tax at U.S. corporate rates. And our corporate rates are 35 percent.

Charlie and I, a good bit of our life, operated with corporate rates of 52 percent, later at 48 percent, and the country grew well. American business prospered during that period.

I don’t shed any tears for American business, in terms of the tax rate overall. I think there could be a much more equitable code, in terms of the corporate tax, but I do not think that the 2 percent of GDP that’s being raised from corporate taxes, which is far lower than was the percentage 30 or 40 years ago, I do not think that’s an onerous number.

And for people who are getting 1/4 or 1/2 percent on their CDs, who have retired, and with American business earning, on tangible equity, which is the way they measure it, you know, probably averaging close to 15 percent, I think equity holders are getting treated extraordinarily well compared to debt holders in this economy. (Scattered applause)

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, I agree with you, and I don’t die over these little differences in the tax code, either.

I live in California, of course, where — there’s, like, a 13 1/2 percent tax on long-term capital gains, nondeductible for federal purposes. That’s a ridiculous kind of a tax to have in California because it drives rich people out.

Hawaii and Florida have enough sense to know that rich people don’t commit a lot of crimes, they don’t burden the schools, and they provide a whole lot of medical expenditures that are good for everybody else’s income.

I think California has a really stupid tax policy. But I don’t think the U.S. — but I don’t think the U.S. policy is — (applause) — I don’t think the U.S. policy is bad at all.

WARREN BUFFETT: And it’s nondeductible because of the alternative income tax —

CHARLIE MUNGER: Yes, exactly.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. That really wasn’t the case before, but it —

CHARLIE MUNGER: No, it’s always —

WARREN BUFFETT: — kind of slipped in.

CHARLIE MUNGER: No, they did it on purpose. (Laughter)

No, they did it on purpose.

WARREN BUFFETT: Early stages of paranoia. (Laughter)

CHARLIE MUNGER: Yeah. But it is — it’s amazing. The idea of driving the rich people out, Florida is so much smarter than California on that subject. And it is really demented.

Who in the hell doesn’t want rich people coming in and spending in their state?

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah, yeah. Remember that as you come here to Nebraska for the meeting. (Laughter)

I would say I really do think there’s some chance this year — and not a tiny chance.

I know both Ron Wyden and Orrin Hatch. They’re patriotic, they’re smart, they want to do the right thing. They’ve got different ideas about what the right thing is, there’s no question about that, but they also know they can’t get any place without cooperating.

But I think the real opportunity is if they work out of the public eye in doing — in working on something — and I wouldn’t be surprised if they are. I think that’s the way to get it done.

Charlie has always pointed out, what would have happened if the Constitutional Convention back there in Philadelphia had been held with every delegate running out immediately to tell the TV cameras how right he was and how wrong everybody else was.

It doesn’t accomplish much to dig in on positions, and not be in a position to compromise, because it takes a lot of compromise to write something when you have two different — fundamentally different — views on some important aspects of the tax code.

But those are two good guys, and I would not — I don’t think it’s impossible that we have a new corporate tax code within a year.

8. Buffett on Adam Smith’s “Wealth of Nations”

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Carol?

CAROL LOOMIS: This question, which is a little bit offbeat, comes from Jordan Shopof (PH) of Melbourne, Australia.

“Mr. Buffett, in the forward to the sixth edition of Benjamin Graham’s ‘Security Analysis,’ you identified four books that you particularly cherish.

“Three of these books were authored by Graham himself, and their influence on you is well-known.

“The contributions of the fourth book to your thinking, however — that book was Adam Smith’s ‘The Wealth of Nations,’ published in 1776 — what that book meant to you is seldom discussed.

“So my question is, what did you learn from “The Wealth of Nations” and how did it shape your investment and business philosophy?”

WARREN BUFFETT: Well, it doesn’t shape my investment philosophy, but I certainly learned economics from it. And my friend Bill Gates gave me an original copy of it. I was able to study this.

Adam Smith wrote it in 1776. It’s — you know, there’s just — if you read Adam Smith and if you read Keynes, Ricardo, and then — and if you also read that little book we’ve got out there called “Where Are the Customers’ Yachts?” you will have a lot of wisdom.

I forgot to mention, I was supposed to mention, too: we didn’t want to put it on sale earlier because it would have given away the movie, but we do have “Berkshire Bomber” underwear out there, or sweatshirts, or whatever it may be, so Fruit of the Loom has those.

And we have Fred Schwed’s “Where Are the Customers’ Yachts?” book, which contains an incredible amount of wisdom and very few pages and very entertaining.

But if you want to go for — if you want to not only get a lot more wisdom but appear more erudite, you should read “The Wealth of Nations,” also.

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Adam Smith is one of those guys that has really worn well. I mean, he is rightly recognized as one of the wisest people that ever came along.

And, of course, the lessons that he taught way back then were taught again when communism failed so terribly, and places like Singapore and Taiwan and China, and so forth, came up so fast.

The productive power of the capitalist system is simply unbelievable, and he understood that fully and early, and he’s done a lot of good.

WARREN BUFFETT: I took an idea of his on the specialization of labor, you know, and he talked about people making pins or something, but I applied that, actually, to philanthropy.

You know, I mean, the idea that you let other people do what they’re best at and stick with what you’re best at, I’ve carried from mowing my lawn to philanthropy, and it’s a wonderful thing to just shove off everything and say somebody else is better than I am at that, and then work in the field that’s most productive for you.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Yeah. You didn’t do your own bowel surgery, either.

WARREN BUFFETT: No. (Laughter)

I’m not sure I have any reply to that. (Laughter)

9. Subsidiaries aren’t too focused on short term

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Jonathan?

JONATHAN BRANDT: Warren, you have told the managers of your businesses to think of their businesses as something they will own forever and that their first priority should be to widen the moat and take care of their customers.

In more than one case, according to people I’ve spoken to, Berkshire’s subsidiaries that were formally publicly traded have run into trouble by — now this is on the margin, mind you — trying to maximize calendar year earnings and dividends to the parent, as opposed to focusing on the long-term health of the business.

Do you find that managements of formally public companies, through force of habit, perhaps, have more trouble making decisions with only minimal concern for short-term results than would be the case for formally private companies?

If this dynamic is a real one, is there something more that can be done to combat it?

And I’m curious, are most of Berkshire’s compensation structures based on 12-month results or are they already based over multiyear periods?

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. I don’t think we’ve had any particular problem with public companies versus private companies that we’ve bought.

I mean, if you took the aggregate of the public companies we bought and matched them up against the private companies, I don’t know which group I would rather own or which has delivered the greater returns.

CHARLIE MUNGER: I don’t know where he gets the idea.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah.

CHARLIE MUNGER: It’s not apparent to us.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. Well, you’ve heard Charlie. And I can’t think of it myself.

And, you know, if we tell them to think about 100 years, we mean think about 100 years, and I think they know we mean it. They certainly know we run Berkshire, you know, in terms of our own decisions that way.

So, I think we set the right example, and I think we use the words to convey that belief as strongly as we can, and we try to reinforce — we try to put it in the annual report, we try to talk about it in meetings like this.

We believe in sort of hammering the same message out there over and over again.

Now, we don’t ignore yearly results at all, it’s just we don’t live by them. But I get figures every month on virtually every business, and I read them with great interest, and, you know, I’m thinking about them all the time.

I don’t think they’re unimportant, but we don’t live by them. And I think what really counts, you know, is where we’re going to be three years, five years, or 10 years from now.

But I also — I wouldn’t — if we’re subpar in some area, I wouldn’t accept the fact that we’re working to maximize things in 10 years mean that we should be throwing away money, or anything like that, in the short run, or not paying attention to the business.

But I’d have to say what Charlie has, I don’t really agree with the premise.

10. Buffett’s interest in German companies

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Station 2.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Dear Warren, dear Charlie. Thank you for 50 great years. I’m a happy shareholder and hope to have you continue long.

My name is Victoria Von Tropp (PH). I’m from Bonn in Germany.

And my question is, you own companies both here in the U.S. as well as in Germany. What differences in corporate culture and in performance do you see between German and U.S. starter companies?

WARREN BUFFETT: Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Differences between what —

WARREN BUFFETT: I know the question. I’m just looking to you for the answer, not the question. (Laughter)

CHARLIE MUNGER: Now that he can hear so much better, he —

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, we — we’ve had a hard time buying things in Europe. It’s been quite rare.

And I think the traditions, and the family traditions, are different in Europe than they are in the United States, and in some other countries.

And Germany, of course, has a long tradition of being very good at technology and capitalism, and that’s been a godsend to Germany. And we’ve always admired the way the Germans have performed.

The Germans actually work fewer hours than a lot of other people and produce a lot more and, of course, Warren and I are pretty good at that. (Laughter)

So we’re — we admire the Germans, particularly the engineering side, and — but we’ve been thinking about owning good German companies for a long time and we finally bought one.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. But I’ll make a prediction. I will predict we buy at least one German company in the next five years.

I think that — I think we are far more on the radar screen than we were just a few years ago in Germany. I think we now have a woman over there who brought, through somebody else as well, but brought Louis to our attention.

I think she is going to hear about more things because of her association with us on the transaction and the fact that we tried to get the word out as to her help with us.

So, I would really be surprised if we don’t make at least one deal in Germany in the next five years, and I would look forward to it. I mean, we’ll be very, very happy with — you know, we have to get a business, we understand.

I’ve had, probably, four or five letters in the last couple months, ever since the Louis deal was announced, but they’ve been very small businesses in practically each case.

But we’ll get one. We’re eager, we’ve got the money, and we do fit the family situation, occasionally.

And prices may be a little more attractive there than in the United States, although I haven’t seen anything yet that we’ve bought.

But I would say that there’s a reasonable chance that the price of something we’re offered over there might catch my attention more than U.S. prices, currently.

11. Why competitors sometimes underprice GEICO

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Becky.

BECKY QUICK: This question caught my attention not because I think it’s a complaint, but I think it’s an actual question about the actuarial models that you use at GEICO.

It comes from Stan Zion (PH). And he says, “My wife and I are stockholders of Berkshire Hathaway. I’m 78 and she’s 74. We have a long-time accident-free driving record.

Yet, when we applied to GEICO with our stockholder discount, GEICO was unable to beat our rates for comparable coverage with other fine companies. Why?”

WARREN BUFFETT: Well, it’s the reason that we probably can beat the rate maybe 40 percent of the time with people who contact us and 60 percent of the time we can’t.

No company is going to be the lowest in all cases. And we have our own underwriting criteria that involves many variables, one of which is age, but it wouldn’t be a dominant one at that age.

But we have many, many variables. And we make our calculations, and very good competitors like State Farm and Allstate, USAA, and so on, they have somewhat different underwriting weightings and sometimes they come in below us.

But I don’t think any company, of size, will be the lowest more often than GEICO.

We give out quotes on the telephone to many, many thousands of people every week. I get the figures every week, and I get the number of quotes, and I get the number of policies sold.

And I can tell you the percentages are very substantial that we sell. And we’re not selling them if we’re charging them more than the people before them. So it — different people have different weightings for different variables.

And the couple you referred to sound like they should get a very good rate from somebody, but they apparently got a better rate from somebody else other than us. And that’s going to happen, perhaps 60 percent of the time, and 40 percent of the time we’re going to get the business.

And since we’re only 11 percent of the whole market now, it means we’ve got a lot of policyholders yet to gather.

The — it’s an interesting question when you’re looking at how to evaluate drivers. You know, we know that 16-year-old boys are about as bad as they get; 16-year-old girls are a better class.

Does that mean they’re better drivers? Not necessarily.

It may mean they don’t have the same tendency to show off. It may mean they don’t drive as many miles. It may mean a whole lot of things.

So we ask a lot of questions, and other people ask different questions, and we will come up with different rates. But it’s definitely worth 15 minutes to call GEICO. (Laughter)

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, I would say besides if — when you get into the older people’s group and you find you’re not deteriorating as fast as most of your contemporaries, you may be paying an unfair price for the insurance, but it’s a good tradeoff. (Laughter)

WARREN BUFFETT: Gary.

I haven’t thought of it that way before. (Laughter)

12. Reinsurance business getting worse due to “facades”

GARY RANSOM: The reinsurance market has changed dramatically over the last two or three years, a lot of alternative capital coming into the business, making it much harder to make the assumption that there would be a big opportunity after the next big catastrophic event.

What is it that you and Ajit are planning to change, or do, to take advantage of whatever opportunities might be there?

WARREN BUFFETT: Well, wouldn’t our competitors like to know? (Laughs)

The reinsurance business is not as good as it was, and it’s unlikely to be as good as it was.

There’s a lot of money that’s come into reinsurance, not because they want to reinsure people, but because it’s become either a fashionable asset class for people that are looking for so-called noncorrelated investments and may not know what they’re doing, but it’s something you can sell people, you know, that’s an attractive line to go to pension funds with.

And then, secondly, it’s a beard for doing — for asset management. So, if you go to Bermuda and start a reinsurance company, you can actually run a hedge fund, and you need a little business to make it look like you’re doing something other than running a hedge fund, and locating it offshore so you don’t pay any tax, but that’s the primary motivation.

So when you get a whole lot of people that are bringing money in and they sort of need your facade of reinsurance to cover up what their real motivations are, you’re likely to get less attractive prices in reinsurance.

And that’s been happening on a fairly large scale, and I would say that I would expect the reinsurance business in the next 10 years to not be as good as it has been — I’m talking about the whole industry — as it has been, you know, in the last 30 or something like that.

It’s a business whose prospects have turned for the worse, and there’s not much we can do about it.

We do find things to do. There are certain things that only Berkshire can do, and we’ve — I mentioned in the annual report that there have been eight—I think it was eight—contracts written with premiums of a billion dollars or more, and we’ve written all eight of them.

So, we do — there’s a certain corner of the world that we’ve got a strong position in, and there’s a few other things we will do, but it’s not as good as it was.

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, I think, generally speaking, of course, it’s going to be harder and, of course, this competition from promotional finance is getting more and more intense and they’re more optimistic.

They’re searching for a robust narrative. We’re not searching for a robust narrative so we can sell something. We’re playing the game for the long pull and other people just pretend to be doing so.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. We could — we’ve had the opportunity over — for a long period of time — to go out and promote reinsurance-type money, and really take advantage, you know, of people on it, because we would have the best reputation in the field, and we could attract a ton of money, and we could get a big overwrite on it.

But it’s not our game.

CHARLIE MUNGER: And we don’t particularly admire the way it’s being played.

13. How to win friends and influence people

WARREN BUFFETT: Station 3.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mr. Buffett and Mr. Munger, my name is (inaudible) from South Florida, and I’m currently in seventh grade.

My question is how do you make lots of friends and get people to like you and work with you?

WARREN BUFFETT: That’s not a bad question. (Applause)

Very good question.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, you know, I was pretty obnoxious when I was your age and asked a lot of impertinent questions, and not everybody liked me.

And so the only way I could get the people to like me a little bit was to get very rich and very generous. (Laughter)

That will work.

WARREN BUFFETT: People will see all kinds of virtues in you if they think you’ll write a check. (Laughter)

Yeah. The two of us — both Charlie and I were on the obnoxious side early on, but you should get a little smarter about human behavior as you get older.

And I turned out to have some pretty good teachers as I went along, in terms of what worked.

I mean, I have looked at other people during my lifetime and at these wonderful teachers. They weren’t teachers in the standard definition, but they were people I admired and I thought to myself, “Why do I admire these people?” And if I want to be admired myself, you know, why shouldn’t I take on some of their qualities?

So, it’s not a complicated proposition, you know. If you look around you at the people you like in your school, write down three or four things they do that make you like them, and then look around at the three or four people that turn you off, and write down those qualities, and decide that you’re going to be a person you, yourself, would like, that you’d take on the qualities of the person on the left.

You’re generous, you’re friendly, you know, you accept things with good humor, you don’t claim credit for things you don’t do, all of these things. And they’re all possible to do.

And if you like that in other people, people are going to like it in you. And if you find things that are kind of obnoxious, you’re always late, you’re always claiming credit for more than you do, and you’re kind of negative on everything, and you don’t like those in other people, get rid of them in yourself and you’ll find out it works pretty well. (Applause)

CHARLIE MUNGER: And it really works in marriage. If you can change yourself instead of trying to change your spouse, that’s a good idea. (Laughter)

WARREN BUFFETT: Charlie has said the most important thing in selecting a marriage partner is that you don’t look for intelligence or humor or character. He says you look for someone with low expectations. (Laughter)

14. NetJets wasn’t a mistake despite labor problems

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Andrew?

ANDREW ROSS SORKIN: OK. This is a question about NetJets. We received several related to NetJets. We’ve combined these two.

The first is, can you comment on the lengthy dispute with NetJets’ pilots who are picketing outside, and Whitney Tillson asks, “What type of return on investment do you expect from the billions on order in aircraft for NetJets,” and in a very pointed way, he writes, “Was buying NetJets a mistake?”

WARREN BUFFETT: No, I don’t think buying NetJets was a mistake. We’ve had a few things where it looked like a mistake for quite a while and some of them turned out to be a mistake.

But NetJets is a very decent business. We have a good business; the pilots have a good job.

And the — it’s not really the right way to look at it, I don’t think, in terms of return on investment in the billions of dollars of orders we have because we resell those planes to owners.

And we do have a core fleet that represents an investment, but the investment is held, in very large part, by the owners themselves. I own — what do I own? Three-sixteenths, or something like that, of one type of plane that my children use. I own an eighth of another plane that I use. But that’s my investment; it’s not the NetJets investment.

The — labor relations — at Berkshire we’ve had hundreds of labor unions over the years, literally hundreds. In fact, we probably have hundreds at the present time.

And we’ve only had — in 50 years — we’ve had three strikes that I can remember. I don’t think there have been any others. There could have been some one-day walkout, maybe.

But we had a four-day strike at a Berkshire Hathaway textile operation, we had a four-day or so strike at the Buffalo News 30 years ago, and we had another strike at See’s Candy one time.

So, we have no anti-union agenda whatsoever, and we think we have sensational pilots.

I mean, I’ve flown NetJets, my family has flown NetJets, now for 20 years, and we’ve had nothing but professional pilots and friendly pilots.

And it’s not — you know, it’s in human nature to have differences, sometimes, about what people get paid.

Our pilots make an average of 145,000 a year. They worked — they work seven — they have options, but one of the options, and the main option, is seven days on and seven days off.

We pay for their time to get to where they’re based. They can live anyplace in the country. And compared to our competitors at Flexjets or Flight Options or so on, or in charter, we pay well.

But it’s perfectly understandable that employers and employees have some differences from time to time. And we’ll get it worked out, but that doesn’t necessarily come in a day or a week or a month.

And our volume is up, in terms of flying. Our volume is up, in terms of owners in the United States. Europe is flat. But the United States is the bigger end of it.

So it’s a business I’m very glad we own. I’m proud we own it. It’s a first-class operation. We give our pilots more training, I believe, than anybody else.

I’m flying on NetJets. My kids are all flying on NetJets. Our managers, in many cases, are flying on it, so nobody cares more about safety.

This is not a company where the CEO flies on his own jet and other people fly in other ways. So I — and I get the same — I get the same planes that the other people get and the same pilots. I mean, there’s no special arrangements.

So we’ve got this intense interest in safety, and we’ve got very professional pilots. And at the moment, we’ve got a difference of opinion about a contract, but that will get settled, in my view.

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: I have never, in all the years, had a NetJets pilot who didn’t affect me as a wonderful fellow and a very skilled, able, and dutiful, reliable person.

And I would say most — I can think of no NetJets pilot that has ever in any way indicated that he’s dissatisfied with his life, and a lot of them say they just love it, because of the — I’m not at all sure the union is fairly representing the pilots.

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. (Applause)

He said fellows. Actually, we have a lot of women pilots, too.

15. Tax code helped Duracell-P&G deal

WARREN BUFFETT: Gregg?

GREGG WARREN: Warren, looking at your acquisition of Duracell from Procter & Gamble, at the time of the deal, you noted that Duracell is a leading global brand with top quality products. You’re obviously familiar with the business, which was initially acquired by Gillette in 1996.

While Duracell does provide fairly steady cash flows and has a strong brand in market position, its core business is in decline, with advances in technology making alkaline batteries far less relevant than they were 20 years ago.

Looking back historically, you’ve been willing to hang onto businesses operating in declining industries as long as they continue to generate some cash for Berkshire overall, so having Duracell in the portfolio is not necessarily out of the ordinary.

The question I have is, how much of a role did tax planning actually play in doing this deal, given the extremely low-cost basis on your P&G shares, some of which you’ve been selling the last several years?

And would you have done this deal without tax considerations? And, if so, at what price?

WARREN BUFFETT: Well, both Procter & Gamble and Berkshire Hathaway had tax advantages in doing the deal this way, so they probably wouldn’t have sold it at the price at which the deal took place, and we wouldn’t have bought it at the price, without the tax benefits that each enjoyed.

And this is something — we had to have held our stock for over five years in Procter & Gamble.

It’s something that’s been in the code a long time that we’ve had nothing to do with it being in the code, but it’s part of the code.

And it’s somewhat similar to the real estate exchange arrangement, where you can exchange real estate and defer any tax.

And we don’t get a new tax basis on the Duracell; we keep the old lower tax base, just like on — what do they call it? Is it section 1231 or —

CHARLIE MUNGER: Yeah.

WARREN BUFFETT: — real estate exchanges. So it’s analogous to that, and the answer is that there wouldn’t have been a transaction from Procter & Gamble’s standpoint and there wouldn’t have been a transaction, probably, from Berkshire’s standpoint, if it hadn’t been for the fact that we could do an exchange arrangement.

As to the declining business part, the battery business will be a declining business, but it will be around for a very, very, very long time on a worldwide basis.

And Duracell has a very strong position. It’s a very good business. And, like you say, I was familiar with it when I was on the Gillette board.

But the — you know, it will have unit declines over a period of time, but I think we’ll do fine with the Duracell investment. I’m looking forward to getting the deal complete, which probably won’t take place until the fourth quarter because we have to get it detached from a lot of other things like the IT and distribution centers and everything else that it’s involved in with P&G.

But P&G has been great to work with. They’re making the transition — you know, they couldn’t be better to work with during that period, and I’ll be very happy when we own it.

16. Why I’m giving away most of my wealth

WARREN BUFFETT: Station 4.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello, Warren and Charlie. I am Marvin Blum, an estate planning lawyer from Fort Worth, Texas, home to four of your companies.

And by the way, we’re excited about the new Nebraska Furniture Mart and the Berkshire Hathaway Automotive Group in the Dallas/Fort Worth area.

Next to Omaha, we hope you think of Fort Worth as your second home.

WARREN BUFFETT: It’s been good to us. And actually, we have five companies down there. MiTek just bought one.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: All right. Even better.

At the annual meeting a couple years ago, I asked about your estate plan and your idea of leaving kids enough so they can do anything, but not so much that they can do nothing.

Today, I’d like to ask you about your decision to sign the Giving Pledge, promising to give away at least one-half of your assets to charity.

Can you talk about your views on philanthropy, and how to balance leaving an inheritance to your family versus assets to charity?

WARREN BUFFETT: Well, it depends very much on the individual situation. And actually, I promised to give over 99 percent, in my case. But that still leave plenty left over. (Applause)

As you know, the estate tax exemption has been moved up substantially here in the last couple years, so you — I might have a very different feeling if I’d had a child that worked actively, helped me build the business, and all that sort of thing, and it was a small business, and I wanted to give it to them. But that can be really done without any estate tax these days, particularly if a little planning is used ahead of time.

It’s a very individual thing. I — as Charlie — you know, when you get to the — figuring out what you do with your money, the options get very — fairly — limited. And as Charlie said the other day, you know, he said where he’s going it won’t do him much good anyway. (Laughter)

There’s no Forbes 400, you know, in the graveyard.

So the question is, where does it do the most good? And I think it does limited amounts to do some real good for my children, so I’ll be sure that they have that, or they already have it, to a degree.

And, on the other hand, when I look at a bunch of stock certificates in a safe deposit box that were put there 50 years ago or so, they have absolutely no utility to me, zero. They can’t do anything for me in life.

I mean, they can’t let me consume 7,000 calories a day instead of 3,000. They can’t — there’s nothing they can do.

I’ve got everything in the world I want, and I’ve had it for decades. If I wanted something additionally, I’d go buy it.

So, here these things are that have no utility to me and they have enormous utility to some people in other parts of the world. I mean, they can save lives. They can provide vaccines. They can provide education. There are all kinds of utility.

So why in the world should they sit there for me or for, you know, some fourth generation down of great-grandchildren or something, when they can do a lot of good now?

So that’s my own philosophy on it, but I think everybody has to develop their own feelings about it and should follow where they go.

I do think — I do think they might ask themselves, what — you know, where will it do the most good?

And it can be pretty dramatic between what it can do for millions of people that don’t really have remotely the same shot at having a decent life that I’ve had, or what it, you know, what it can do for me.

I mean, if it — I could have 10 houses, but, you know, I could buy a hotel to live in, you know. But would I be happier? It would be crazy.

Charlie and I both like fairly simple lives. But the one thing we do know is we know what we like and what we don’t like, and we don’t judge it by what other people like.

So I don’t have too much advice for anybody, but I would say start thinking about it.

When I call people on the Giving Pledge, you know, some of them — I’ll get some 70-year-old and he says, “You know, I don’t want to think about it yet.” And I always tell him. “Are you going to make a better decision when you’re 95 with some blond on your lap?” (Laughter)

That actually was tried a few years ago, as you may know. (Laughter)

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: No, but it does occur to me that that fellow that was complaining about the tax system should remember that when — they recently changed the estate tax rules, so you can leave 5 million to your kids, and so forth. I think that’s a very constructive change in the law.

So I don’t think we should assume that our politicians are always going to be totally crazy. That was a very desirable change, I think.

17. Distribute long-term stock holdings to shareholders?

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Carol.

CAROL LOOMIS: The questioner’s name is Andre Bartel (PH), and he’s a Berkshire shareholder.

“Would it make sense” — and I’m going to add my own edit here to say, and would it be legally permissible — “for Berkshire to distribute, at some time in the future, any or some of the long-term equity investments, for example, Coca-Cola or American Express, to the shareholders in a tax-sufficient way, as Yahoo is planning to do with the Alibaba stake, for example?

“The idea would be to return capital to shareholders using assets that Berkshire is not actively managing, that is, has not bought or sold for some time, and has very low incentive to sell because of income tax implications, while not taking away resources—cash—that could be reinvested by the Berkshire management better than by its shareholders.”

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah, I don’t think Yahoo solved it, actually. Charlie, you follow that, too.

CHARLIE MUNGER: I don’t think that we can do that with American Express and so forth. It’s a bad example. We’ve got no way of doing that.

WARREN BUFFETT: No. There used to be a way to do that many years ago, and it was done. I don’t mean by us, but I saw other examples of it.

But, under the code, there’s no way to use appreciated securities to redeem your own shares, to — you can do it for something like acquiring, where you’re exchanging it for like asset type thing on the Duracell arrangement, but there’s no way to distribute it to shareholders without paying the full capital gains tax. And —

CHARLIE MUNGER: Yeah, spinoffs of whole businesses to shareholders, if you held them a long time, but that’s about the only thing you can do.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah, but even there, I mean, what Yahoo has done has not got rid of the tax.

CHARLIE MUNGER: I don’t know anything about Yahoo.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. No. The — or what they’re planning to do.

It may give them some other option if Alibaba wants to eventually redeem it themselves.

I mean, there could be something where they could work out a deal with Alibaba. I do not see how that they’ve gotten rid of the tax, unless they do a subsequent transaction of some sort with Alibaba, but maybe they have different tax advice than I’ve seen.

I mean, I know all kinds of cases where people — where corporations — have unrealized — large unrealized — gains in marketable securities, and I have not seen, in recent years — although I did see it early in my career when the law was different, but I’ve not seen in recent years any way that people have gotten that money into the hands of the shareholders without paying a tax at the corporate level.

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: No. That’s — that’s what we say.

18. Is reduced household formation by young people permanent?

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. Jonathan?

JONATHAN BRANDT: Berkshire owns many companies that benefit from single-family home construction: ACME, Johns Manville, Benjamin Moore, MiTek, and Shaw among them, not to mention the railroad.

After the financial crisis, you said that young adults who are postponing household formation by living with parents or in-laws would eventually get sick of that arrangement and we would start to see normal rates of household formation once the job market improved or even if it didn’t.

Jobs are now more plentiful. Yet, household formation still continues to be below rates thought to be normal, whether because of high student debt, a shift in attitudes about homeownership, or stricter mortgage terms for first-time buyers.

Could something more secular be going on where household formation rates, relative to the population, could continue to be lower than historical rates?

Could the U.S. become more like Europe where many adult children live with their parents or in-laws for quite some time, or do you think, still, that the subdued rate of household formation is a mostly cyclical phenomenon, and that the rate will eventually revert to the historical mean, boosting single-family home starts and earnings for this group of companies?

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. I don’t know the answer, obviously, but I think the latter is more likely.

I may be wrong. When’s the last set of figures you’ve looked at in that connection? I’ve heard that it’s turned up a fair amount in the last six months, but — have you seen anything on that, Jonny?

JONATHAN BRANDT: Nothing really recently, no.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. I should know the figures, but I don’t, for the last six months or nine months. But my impression was they had turned up somewhat.

I did my best on selling that ring in the movie to that guy, and they’re going to form a household here in another month or two to which I’ve been invited.

But the truth is I don’t know, the — you know, what’s going to happen on household formation.

I would expect — but I expected it earlier than this — I would expect it to turn up. It always turns down in a recession, and you could argue that we’re not all the way back from the recession yet.

Your guess would be as good as mine.

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: I feel exactly the same way, but I think I speak for a lot of members of the audience when I say I have some grandchildren that I wish would marry somebody suitable promptly. (Laughter)

WARREN BUFFETT: What’s the reason for your interest, Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: I don’t think it’s healthy for these people to hang around looking for pie in the sky or whatever in hell they’re doing. (Laughter)

WARREN BUFFETT: Are they in attendance today?

CHARLIE MUNGER: I don’t know. Some of them may be. I don’t want to name names. (Laughter)

WARREN BUFFETT: No. I think you’ve already been pointed enough.

19. Why individual over corporate philanthropy?

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Station 5.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Gentlemen, thank you for a great day.

My name is Mark Roy (PH), and I am the executive director of the Immanuel Vision Foundation here in Omaha.

Earlier today, I sat up in the corner and spoke to my son who is working and living in Indonesia, among the poorest of the poor, funded, incidentally, by the Gates Foundation.

The contrast between where he is sitting today and where I am sitting could not be more dramatic.

You have been a model of philanthropic caring for the needs of others. You have demonstrated that it’s not how many shares we have but how we share with others.

So following up on the last speaker, I want to ask, how can corporations be encouraged to make an even greater impact in the lives of those who are not shareholders?

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. I agree, you know, entirely with your motivation about increasing philanthropy.

I am much more of a believer, however, in individual philanthropy than corporate philanthropy.

I really feel that I’ve got everything I need, but I do also feel that I’m working for the shareholders and they should determine their own philanthropic activities, that it’s their money. (Applause)

Now, we participate in — I mean, I encourage all our companies to continue the philanthropic behavior that they had before we’ve acquired them, and, you know, we want them to participate in their communities and to help the entities that help their employees and their customers.

But I don’t really think it’s my business, ever, to write a check to my alma mater or whatever it may be, and do it on company funds. I just — I don’t feel it’s my money.

I really look at this as a partnership. We’ve always looked at it as a partnership. And we had a system some years back where all the shareholders could designate contributions, and I felt that was quite a good system. And then we had to give it up for reasons that — I hated to give it up, but we had to do it.

The interesting thing about philanthropy — I mean, I have never given a penny to any organization that has cost me anything in my life. I mean, I’ve never given up a movie, I’ve never given up a trip, I’ve never given up a vacation, I’ve never given up a present to my kids.

You know, people give money this Sunday, you know, that really, actually, changes their lifestyle in a small way, and that hasn’t happened with me. Everything I’ve given has been ungodly surplus, you know, and I’m glad I can do it.

But it’s people like your son, you know, that I really admire.

Charlie? (Applause)

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, my taste for giving away somebody else’s money is also quite restrained. (Laughter)

WARREN BUFFETT: I was on the board one time of an organization that needed to raise a fair amount of money, and it wasn’t church affiliated or anything like that.

And so they asked me to call on four or five corporate chieftains and they said, “Be sure not to ask them to give anything personally, just ask them to give corporate money.”

And just — I said, “I’m not going to do it,” basically. If they’re not — if they won’t put up their own money, why should they write checks on behalf of all their shareholders?

So I’ve got real reservations about corporate philanthropy for the personal reasons, to some extent, of the CEO, or the directors.

20. Euro can survive eurozone changes

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Becky?

BECKY QUICK: This question comes from Felipe, and he asks, “Do Charlie and you think that the euro currency has had a positive or negative effect overall on the eurozone economy, and do you think it would be a good decision for France to quit the euro currency and go back to the franc?

WARREN BUFFETT: Well, that’s too easy for me to answer, so I’ll give it to Charlie. (Laughter)

CHARLIE MUNGER: I haven’t got the faintest idea. (Laughter)

I think the euro had a noble motivation and had promise of doing a lot of good and it undoubtedly has done a lot of good.

But it’s a flawed system, in some ways, to put countries that are so different together, and it’s straining at the moment. The big strains aren’t in France.

WARREN BUFFETT: No.

CHARLIE MUNGER: The big strains are in Greece and Portugal and so on.

And I do think they created something that was probably unwise. They got countries in there that shouldn’t have been there.

You can’t form a business partnership with your frivolous, drunken brother-in-law, you know. (Laughter)

I mean, you have to make your partnerships with somebody else. And I think they lowered their standards a little and it’s caused strains.

WARREN BUFFETT: I think — (laughs) — everything here is off the record, understand. (Laughter)

They — I think it’s a good idea that needs a lot of work, still.

And I think it has been a good thing, net, to this point.

But it — you know, it is flawed and the flaws are appearing, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be corrected.

I mean, we wrote a Constitution in 1789 that, you know, still took a few amendments, you know, and some of them didn’t happen for a long time in respect to some very important factors.

So, I don’t think the fact that it wasn’t perfectly designed initially should condemn it to being abandoned, but I think that if there are flaws, you have to face up to them. And I think that maybe the events that are happening currently will cause that.

We could have had — presumably — we could have had a common currency with Canada and probably have made it work, I mean, if we decided —

CHARLIE MUNGER: Sure, we could have made it work.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. We could have had a North American currency with Canada and, you know, we’d have worked it out, and it might have even been useful.

But we couldn’t have had a hemisphere-wide currency with Venezuela in it or —

CHARLIE MUNGER: With Argentina.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. (Laughter)

And so — he loves to name names. (Laughter)

Praise by name; criticize by category. (Laughter)

And I actually think it’s probably desirable to have a euro currency properly designed and enforced so that — you know, that the rules really apply. There were rules, originally, on the euro, which got broken very early on, by not the Greeks, but by the Germans and the French, as I remember. So —

CHARLIE MUNGER: The investment bankers let them — they helped them prepare phony financial statements.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah.

CHARLIE MUNGER: They — actually, it was investment banker-aided fraud.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Not exactly novel. (Laughter)

WARREN BUFFETT: So, returning to our main point, I think the euro can and probably should survive and I think it’s going to take some real changes and maybe some examples to enable it to do so.

I hope it really — I mean, it’s going to go in the direction of more cohesion or less, and very soon, probably. And I think if it can figure out a way to do it with more cohesion, overall it will be a good thing for Europe.

But it certainly, you know, in its present form it’s not going to work.

Charlie? I don’t know why I’m giving you another shot, but — (Laughter)

CHARLIE MUNGER: I think I’ve offended enough people.

WARREN BUFFETT: Right. (Laughter)

There’s two or three in the balcony. (Laughter)

21. Munger: GEICO synergies are “dumb idea”

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Gary.

GARY RANSOM: With the Van Tuyl acquisition — or now Berkshire Hathaway Automotive — there may be some natural synergies with GEICO, if it’s nothing more than just putting a gecko on the salesman’s desk.

Would you expect to do anything in that regard to encourage getting more customers through that relationship?

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah, I don’t think so.

You always have these things that the investment banker will tell you will produce synergy and all that. Most times that doesn’t work.

And historically, selling auto insurance through dealerships hasn’t been particularly effective. And if we were to do that, we would probably have to compensate people who did the insurance work — or made the insurance sales — out of Van Tuyl. That would add to costs.

I mean, GEICO is a low-cost model, and it’s a wonderful low-cost model. And [CEO] Tony Nicely has done an incredible job of keeping those costs down and our — and you can see it in our expense ratios.

We spend a lot of money on advertising. But its success depends on delivering first-class insurance at a better price than other people can get, and the more people we put in distribution system or anything —

So, I would doubt very much that we do anything along that line. I think that those two companies will do better if run as two independent businesses than if we try to push through something.

We — Charlie and I have seen a lot of things on paper that involve that sort of a proposition and very, very few succeed.

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, I agree. It’s a very dumb idea, and we’re not going to do it. (Laughter)

22. Buffett doesn’t follow silver market anymore

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Station 6.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Mr. Buffett, in this environment of quantitative easing, low interest rates, and an overvalued stock market, what value in silver at these prices do you see, and do you still follow the silver market?

WARREN BUFFETT: I really don’t follow it much anymore. But at one time, we owned over 100 million ounces of silver, and I knew a fair amount about the supply and demand for it, and the prospective supply and demand.

But I really don’t — I haven’t paid much attention to it for a long, long time.

CHARLIE MUNGER: That’s a very good thing too. (Laughter)

We didn’t do that well.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. We made a little money.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Yes.

WARREN BUFFETT: The — you know, photography — the interesting thing about silver is that there are some pure silver mines, but overwhelmingly, silver is produced as a by-product, you know, in terms of copper mining and that.

So it — it doesn’t respond as much to its own supply and demand characteristics — that’s still a factor — as it does in terms of the supply and demand characteristics of the things of which it’s a by-product, like copper.

So, it’s a very small market, too. But we came out better than the Hunt brothers, but other than that, we don’t think about silver anymore.

23. Could activists take control after Buffett?

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Andrew.

ANDREW ROSS SORKIN: Charlie, question about activism.

Activism continues to grow and, as Charlie stated at the 2014 annual meeting, he sees it getting worse instead of getting better.

So the question is, we hope that Charlie and Warren will both be around forever, but, unfortunately, there will be a time when they’re no longer here to manage the store.

WARREN BUFFETT: I reject such defeatism. (Laughter)

ANDREW ROSS SORKIN: If Warren is giving away his shares to charity over a ten-year period through his estate plan, and activists become increasingly more powerful, how will Berkshire defend itself from activists in the near and far future?

And would you consider it a failure if Berkshire were broken up in the future and shareholders received a significant premium? And for you to consider it success, what would the premium need to be?

WARREN BUFFETT: Well, if it’s run right, there won’t be a premium in breaking it up.

It may look like it. I mean, people will say there’s subsidiary A that would sell at 20 times earnings and the whole place would sell, like, at 15. But the whole place won’t sell at 15 if you spin off the one at 20.

I mean, it — I laid out in the annual report — there are a lot of benefits to Berkshire, in terms of having the companies in the same corporate tax return.

So I think it’s unlikely that, on any long-term basis or intermediate-term basis, that the value of the parts will be greater than the value of the whole.

The best defense against activism is performance. But lately, there’s been so much money pouring into activist funds, because it’s been easy to raise money for that — I mean, it’s been a successful way of handling money for the last few years, and institutional money then starts flowing into it, and the consultants recommend it, and all of that sort of thing.

And so, I would say that much of what I see as activism now, people are really reaching, in terms of what they’re — of the kind of companies that they’re talking about and the claims of what they can do and that sort of thing.

I think the biggest — you know, if you’re talking about my shares getting dispensed over 10 years after my estate is settled, and the voting power they have, and I think, by the time that gets to be a reality, I think the market value of Berkshire is likely to be so great that even if all the activists gathered together, they wouldn’t be able to do very much about it.

Berkshire is likely to really be a very, very large organization 10 or 20 years from now.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Besides, the Buffett super-voting power is going to last a long time.

WARREN BUFFETT: Last a long time, yeah.

I always — I’ve got these friends that call me — other companies and they’ve got an activist, and they’re worried about it. I just tell them to send them over to Berkshire. We’ll welcome them.

We’d love to have them buy our stock because they’re not going to get anyplace. And that’s going to be the situation for a long, long time.

We should be a place where people can dump their activists. (Laughter)

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, the thing that I find interesting is, in the old days when many — most — stocks sold for way less than they were worth, in terms of intrinsic value, it was very rare to find an American corporation buying the stock in.

WARREN BUFFETT: Oh, yeah.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Now, in many cases, the activists are urging corporations to buy the stock in heavily, even though it’s selling for more than it’s worth.

This is not a constructive activity, and it’s not a desirable change, and it’s not a very responsible activity for the activists.

WARREN BUFFETT: There’s been more stupid stuff written on such a simple activity as stock repurchase. Both stupid stuff written and stupid stuff done.

I mean, it’s a very simple decision, in my view, as to whether you repurchase your shares. You know, you repurchase them if you’re taking care of the needs of the business and your stock is selling for less than it’s intrinsically worth. That — I don’t see how anything could be more simple.

If you had a partnership and the partner wanted to sell out to you at 120 percent of what the business is worth, you’d say forget it.

And if he’d want to sell out to you for 80 percent of what it’s worth, you’d take it. It’s not complicated.

But there’s so many other motivations that entered into people’s minds about deciding whether to repurchase shares or not. It’s gotten to be a very contorted and kind of silly discussion in many cases.

And Charlie is right. The — if you look at the history of share repurchases, you know, it falls off like crazy when stocks are cheap and it tends to goes up dramatically when stocks get fully priced.

But it’s not what we’ll do at Berkshire. At Berkshire, you know, we will presently — you know, we would love to buy it by the bushel basket at 120 percent of book, because we know it’s worth a lot more than that.

We don’t know how much more, but we know it’s worth a lot more.

And we don’t get a chance to do that very often. But if we do get a chance, we’ll do it, big time.

But we won’t buy it in at 200 percent of book, because it isn’t worth it.

You know, it’s not a complicated question, but people that — I’ve been around a lot of managements that announce they’re going to buy X worth and then they buy it regardless of price.

And a lot of times the price makes sense. But if it doesn’t, they don’t seem to stop, and nobody tries to — seems to want to stop them.

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, I certainly agree with you.

WARREN BUFFETT: OK.

CHARLIE MUNGER: I don’t think it’s a great age, this age of activism.

WARREN BUFFETT: Want to expand on that? (Laughter)

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, I — it’s hard for me to think of any activists I want to marry into the family. (Applause)

WARREN BUFFETT: I better stop before he names names. (Laughter)

24. American Express & credit card history

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Gregg.

GREGG WARREN: Warren, American Express, which is Berkshire’s third largest stock holding, has relied on powerful network effects and its valuable brand to generate economic profits over the years.

It has created a virtual cycle with its collection of cardholders being desirable to merchants, who have been willing to pay higher transaction fees with those fees ending up funding rewards programs and services for American Express’s cardholders.

More recently, though, competitors have turned this model against the firm, targeting its cardholder base with ever-increasing levels of rewards and services, while charging merchants lower fees than American Express does.

The company also saw its image of exclusivity take a bit of a hit earlier this year when Costco ended a 16-year relationship with the firm, a move that affects one in 10 American Express cards in circulation and which will impact results this year and next.

With restrictions on interchange fees and the growth and acceptance of mobile payment technologies likely to impact future revenue streams, and moves by the firm to go down-market in pursuit of transaction volume potentially diminishing the brand, how does American Express defend its moat?

WARREN BUFFETT: Well, American Express has been pretty good at that, and particularly when Ken Chenault’s been running it.

The — it will be — you know, it — all aspects of payments will be subject to lots of innovation and various modes of attack.

I think that American Express is still a very special company. And like I say, Ken has done a sensational job in anticipating a lot of these trends and guiding it into different markets. As you mentioned, it’s going down in the — into debit cards, effectively, and things of that sort.

I think there’s a lot of loyalty with American Express cardholders. I do think a proprietary card is worth more than a co-branded card, but I think that — I probably shouldn’t get into the specifics of Costco. I’ve got a Costco director sitting next to me.

But we’re very happy with American Express, but we’d be even happier if the stock goes down and the 4 or 5 billion they spend a year buying in stock buys even more shares.

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, I like it a little better when they had a little less competition, but that’s life. (Laughter)

WARREN BUFFETT: Incidentally, you’ll find in this 50-year history of Berkshire, you know, American Express did wonders for us back in the 1960s. And there’s a little history in there on the fact that it was an assessable stock until 1965, which nobody paid any attention to until 1963 on.

But the company has an incredible history of adapting. I mean, they started out as an express company, you know, move trunks around, and valuables around.

And then the railroad came around and started doing the same thing, so they went to traveler’s checks as a way to — very handy way — of moving money around the world.

And then the credit card came along, Diner’s Club came along, in the 1950s, and that threatened the traveler’s check and then they moved into the Travel and Entertainment card, as it was called then.

And the interesting thing is that Diner’s Club, who was first — Ralph Schneider and Al Bloomingdale priced their card at, as I remember, $3, and they looked like they were sewing up the market.

And American Express came along and did something very interesting. They priced their card, I think, at $5, and actually established a better image.

I mean, people that pulled out their American Express card at a dinner table, they looked like J.P. Morgan.

And the guy that pulled out a Diner’s Club card, they’d have a whole bunch of flashy things on it, he looked like a guy who was kiting his expense account or something of the sort. So you just automatically felt like a more important person with your American Express card.

They have been very nimble, and very smart, and particularly in recent years, under Ken, in terms of meeting all kinds of challenges. And I think they’ll have plenty of challenges in the future, and I’m delighted we own 15 percent of the company.

25. Why children need good financial habits

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Station 7.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. My name is Chang, originally from Seoul, South Korea, and working in Los Angeles, California.

I’ve been traveling more than 27 countries, and last year I taught financial literacy lesson in one of the local elementary school in (inaudible) city.

Today here, we’re talking about investments in capital markets, but young students in developing countries, they don’t know how to save money, or they don’t know the concept of interest.

So, in order to overcome the educational challenges, I would like to provide volunteer opportunities to talented Americans to teach in South American schools to overcome the — while they are traveling.

So, what do you think about my plan or do you have any advice? Thank you.

WARREN BUFFETT: Charlie, do you have any advice?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, I failed in this activity with some of my relatives, so I don’t think I can improve South America. (Laughter)

No, I think if you don’t — if you don’t know how to save, I can’t help you. (Laughter)

WARREN BUFFETT: No, but the important thing is to get good habits early on.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Yeah.

WARREN BUFFETT: You really — you know someone said the chains of habit are too light to be felt until they’re too heavy to be broken. And habits really make an enormous difference in your life.

So Andy and Amy Heyward have developed the “Secret Millionaires Club,” which I’ve helped out with a little, and our goal is to, in an entertaining way, present good habits to young kids through a kind of a comedy series.

And I think that’s — it’s actually having a pretty good effect. And here in a few days, we’re going to have a — here in Omaha — we’re going to have eight finalists in young kids from around the country that have developed businesses of their own, and I’m always enormously impressed with these kids.

But the importance of developing good habits yourself, or encouraging good habits in your children very early on, in respect to money, can change their lives.

And, you know, I was 9 or $10,000 ahead when I got out of college, and I got married young and had kids very fast.

And if I hadn’t had that start, my life would have been vastly different. So it — you can’t start young enough on working on good money habits.

And I do think the “Secret Millionaires Club” is very good, but there could be lots of other good ways of teaching those lessons.

26. No plans to change debt level

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. We now have moved solely to the audience, so we’ll go to station 8.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello, Warren, Charlie. My name is Stefano Grasso (PH), and I come from Genova, Italy. It’s great to be here today for the 50th anniversary.

Last year, I asked you what was the right level for leverage at Berkshire Hathaway, and why not to increase it. I argued that increasing liability more at the cheap level would benefit Berkshire, thanks to the investment capabilities of the present management.

This year, I would like to get your view on the possibility of working on the other side of the balance sheet and using part of the cash sitting on bank chair — bank accounts — to reduce some of the liabilities currently on its balance sheet.

For example, the index puts at Berkshire sold between 2004 and 2008, generated a premium of almost 5 billion.

Few years down the line, Berkshire benefited from the float. The indexes are higher and the time to maturity of the put got shorter.

The question is, if the unwinding of the puts were acceptable by the counterparts which bought them, would you consider unwinding them at a reasonable price? Thank you.

WARREN BUFFETT: Are you speaking — you’re speaking specifically of the equity put options we have?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: I’m speaking about them, but as just an example. I’m talking also of maybe reducing debts or doing other —

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. Well, what we hope, of course, is that what we call the excess cash, which is cash beyond 20 billion that we can put to work buying a business. But you can’t do, you know, one a week or one a month. So it’s opportunistic.

And I don’t know whether the phone call that’s going to result in the next deal will come in next week or it may come in a year from now.

We will get calls and we will put money to work. You know, we just — we can’t do it at an even flow. And we have, you know, virtually no debt.

If someone had told the two of us 50 years ago that we’d be able to borrow money in euros with a long duration of 1 percent or something like that, we would have felt we would have ended up with a way different balance sheet than we have today.

But, I mean, money is so cheap that it causes people to do almost anything on the asset side, and we try to avoid doing that because we don’t, you know, we don’t want to drop our standards too fast just because the liability side is costing us so little.

But I don’t think — obviously, if we can unwind a derivative trade on a basis where we thought we were mathematically ahead by a significant amount, we would do it.

But I think that’s very unlikely with the contracts we have now, so we’ll probably — I think it’s very likely they just run out over time.

We carry a liability of well over — I think it’s getting somewhere between 3 1/2 and 4 billion — for something that has a settlement value today of 400 million.

So it’s very hard for us to — it’s very hard for us on the other side of the contract to arrive at a price that we both would be happy with.

We’re not going to deleverage Berkshire. There isn’t that much leverage to start with.

I mean, the float really is, essentially, very close to permanent. I mean, it can decline a couple percent in a year, but it can also increase a few percent.

So, I see no drain on funds of any consequence from the float for as far as the eye can see, and we have very little debt out. So I would not want to pay down the debt we have now.

Logically, we probably should take on more debt at these prices, but that’s just not something that appeals to us.

Maybe if we find a really big deal, we might take on a little more. I would like to at least have that as something I was thinking about.

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: We’d love to have something come along where we actually felt a little capital constrained. We haven’t felt capital constrained for a long time.

It’s a problem we’d love to have, something so attractive that we —

WARREN BUFFETT: We’d stretch a little.

CHARLIE MUNGER: We’d stretch a little. That would be glorious.

And it could happen, by the way.

WARREN BUFFETT: And it could happen.

27. No economies of scale for auto dealers

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Station 9.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi, Mr. Buffett and Mr. Munger. My name is George. I’m translating for my father, (inaudible), from Shanghai, China.

Last year it was my father standing here asking his question, and this year it’s me. I feel so lucky.

I know at the end of last year, you purchased a car sales dealer. This year, you said in your public letter that you are going to continue to buy. The ultimate purpose of investment is to seek the return.

So my question is, whether the rate of return can be necessarily higher with the scale of the dealers?

If so, why we cannot see that happen in China? How come the differences with the dealership business of the same nature in the United States and China? Thank you.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. I don’t know the dealership situation in China.

I would say — I think I mentioned this a little earlier — that I don’t think we’re going to get significant benefits of scale as we buy more units in the auto field. I just don’t see where it would come from.

But we don’t need it. What we really need is managers in those individual dealerships that have skin in the game of their own, and that run them, you know, as first-class businesses, independently.

And that’s what we’ll be looking for. We’ll not be looking for scale. I don’t know the situation in China. Maybe Charlie knows more about that. I think he does.

CHARLIE MUNGER: No. But I don’t think we’d be very good at running dealerships in China. And I think the people who run Van Tuyl are very good at running the ones here, so —

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah with 17,000 here and we’ve got 81 of them, there’s a little room to expand.

The problem is going to be price. Our purchase probably caused people to move up their multiples by one or two — people that have them — and we paid a full, but fair, price for Van Tuyl and we’ll be using that price, more or less, as a yardstick.

And we really thought we bought the best there, so, if anything, we would be hoping to buy others, maybe for a bit less.

So we will not — we may buy a lot of them, we may buy very few, just depending on price developments.

The — we’re having a big car year and profits are good in the dealership field. But when profits are good, we want to pay a lower multiple.

I mean, because, if we’re going to be in the car business forever, we’re going to have some good years and we’re going to have some bad years. And we would rather buy at a 10 or 12 times multiple of a bad year than buy at an eight times multiple of a good year.

And that’s not necessarily the way that sellers think, although they probably understand it, but they don’t want to think that way. So we’ll see what happens.

28. Buffett values internet more than private jet

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Station 10.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. Mr. Buffett and Munger, very excited to be here.

My name is (inaudible), also from Shanghai, China. Because now (inaudible) a company providing wealth management to the high-net wealth individuals in China. The company name is North, from North Ark (PH), listed at (inaudible).

You two are my idols. What’s your secrets of keeping so young, so energetic, and so quick?

Please don’t say because of Coca-Cola. (Laughter)

And as someone says that old papa could not understand the internet, but I don’t believe that.

What’s your opinion? Will you pay more attention to internet? Could I invite both two gentlemen to answer my question? Thank you very much.

WARREN BUFFETT: Charlie, I didn’t get all that, so you —

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, he asked are we going to be using the internet.

Warren is a big internet user compared to me. And — but —

WARREN BUFFETT: I love it. (Laughs)

CHARLIE MUNGER: He plays bridge on it.

WARREN BUFFETT: I use a lot of — I use search. It’s been a huge change in my life, and it costs me a hundred dollars a year, or something like that.

If I had to give up the plane or I had to give up the internet: the plane costs me a million-and-a-half a year, the internet costs me a hundred dollars a year. You know, I wouldn’t want to give up either one of them, but I’d give up the plane.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Interesting. (Laughter)

WARREN BUFFETT: Charlie’s given up both.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Are we going to be doing more — I think everybody’s going to be doing more things on the internet. It is growing in importance. And so like it or not, we’re dragged into modern reality.

WARREN BUFFETT: Doesn’t sound like he likes it, does it? (Laughs)

CHARLIE MUNGER: No, I don’t like it.

I don’t like multitasking. I see these people doing three things at once, and I think, God, what a terrible way that is to think.

I am so stupid, though, I have to think hard about a thing for a long time. And the idea of multitasking my way to glory has never occurred to me. (Laughter)

But at any rate, the internet is here and it’s going to be more and more important and everybody’s going to think more about it and do more about it, like it or not. And, of course, the younger people are way more prone to use it than we are.

But Berkshire — you have what, how many Bloombergs now?

WARREN BUFFETT: In the office?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Yeah.

WARREN BUFFETT: Do we have two or three. Mark?

I don’t know. They don’t tell me about them. They sort of hide them when I come in the room.

CHARLIE MUNGER: We’re into the modern world.

WARREN BUFFETT: We have — [CFO] Marc Hamburg tells me we have three — but we’ll reevaluate that situation when I get back to the office. (Laughter)

What’s that?

Oh, we’re not paying for one. I like that. (Laughter)

Let’s see if we can not pay for two. (Laughter)

No, the internet — and it’s changed many of our businesses. I mean, it’s changed GEICO’s business very, very dramatically. And it’s affecting — it affects them all, to one degree or another.

It’s amazing to me — I mean, people get pessimistic about America. Just think in the last 20 or 25 years—well, just 20 years on the internet—how dramatically it’s changed your life.

You know, the game is not over yet. There’s all kinds of things that are going to happen to make life better.

And Charlie may not think the internet makes life better, but when I compare trying to round up three other guys on a snowy day to come over to my house to play bridge, versus snapping the thing on and having my partner in San Francisco there and two other friends, and so on, in 10 or 20 seconds, I think the world has improved.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, if I had your partner, I’d think it had improved, too. (Laughter)

29. Raise earned income tax credit instead of minimum wage

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Station 11.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. I’m Whitney Tillson, a shareholder from New York.

Mr. Buffett, I know many shareholders have felt irritation, to put it mildly, when you’ve weighed in on social issues such as tax policy, or endorsed and raised money for a particular candidate, but I, for one, applaud it.

I think everyone, but especially people who’ve achieved wealth and prominence and thus have real ability to effect change, have a duty to try and make the world a better place, not just through charitable donations, but also through political engagement, and I’d say that even to people whose political views are contrary to my own.

My question relates to one of the big issues today: rising income inequality, and related to that, the campaign to raise the minimum wage, which has had some recent successes with some of the largest businesses in the country like Walmart and McDonald’s.

How concerned are you about income inequality? Do you think raising the minimum wage is a good idea? And do you think these efforts might meaningfully affect the profitability of corporate America?

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. I think income inequality is — I think it’s extraordinary, in the United States, to see how far we’ve gone.

Well, just go back to my own case. Since I was born in 1930, the average GDP per capita in the United States has gone up six for one.

Now, my parents thought they were living in a reasonably decent economy in 1930, and here their son has lived to where the average is six times what it was then.

And if you’d asked them at that time, and they’d known that fact, that it would go from 8 or $9,000 in today’s terms to $54,000, they would have said, “Well, everybody in America is going to be enjoying a terrific life,” and clearly they’re not.

So, I think it is a huge factor. There are a million causes for it, and I don’t pretend to know all the answers, in terms of working towards solutions.

But I do think that everybody that is willing to work should have a reasonably decent livelihood in a country like the United States, and — (applause) — how that is best achieved — I’m actually going to write something on it pretty soon.

I have nothing against raising the minimum wage, but to raise it to a level sufficient to really change things very much, I think, would cost a whole lot of jobs.

I mean, there are such things as supply and demand curves. And if you were to move it up dramatically, I think you would — it’s a form of price fixing. I think you would change the opportunities available to people very dramatically.

So I am much more of a believer in reforming and enlarging the earned income tax credit, which rewards people that work, but also takes care of those whose skills don’t fit well into a market system. So I think you put your finger on a very big problem.

I don’t think — I don’t have anything against raising the minimum wage, but I don’t think you can do it in a significant enough way without creating a lot of distortions.

Whereas, I do think the earned income tax credit makes a lot of sense and I think it can be improved. There’s a lot of fraud in it. It pays out this lump sum, so you get into these payday type loans against — I mean, there’s — a lot of improvements can be made in it.

But I think the answer lies more in that particular policy than the minimum wage. And, like I said, I think I’m going to write something on it pretty soon. And if there’s anybody I haven’t made mad yet, you know, I’ll take care of it in the next one.

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, you’ve just heard a Democrat speaking and here’s a Republican who says I agree with him.

I think if you raise the minimum wage a lot, it would be massively stupid and hurt the poor, and I think it would help the poor to make the earned income credit bigger. (Applause)

30. “Ridiculous argument” that college boosts lifetime earnings

WARREN BUFFETT: Let’s go to station 1.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. I’m Michael Monahan (PH) from Long Island, New York.

Warren, Charlie, the higher education system has expanded, covering almost everyone who would like to receive a college education. This demand has translated into rising college costs.

As a high school junior, I’m looking at prestigious institutions such as UPenn, Villanova, NYU, Fordham, and Boston University.

On the other hand, my parents are experiencing sticker shock. All of these schools have a sticker price of over $60,000, with some students, as shown in a businessinsider.com article, can pay over $70,000, as the case at NYU.

How will the average American family be able to pay this in the future and, more importantly, how do you two feel about this?

WARREN BUFFETT: Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, the average American family does it by going to less expensive places and getting massive subsidies from the expensive places.

If we had to give our college education to only people who could write cash checks for 60 or $70,000 a year, we wouldn’t have that many college students.

WARREN BUFFETT: No.

CHARLIE MUNGER: So most people are paying less or getting subsidies. And — but I think it is a big problem, that education has just kept raising the price, raising the price, raising the price.

And they say, but college educated people do better. It’s a big bargain. But maybe they do better because they were better to start with before they ever went to college, and they never tell you that. (Applause)

WARREN BUFFETT: It’s a ridiculous argument.

CHARLIE MUNGER: And so —

WARREN BUFFETT: I think that’s one of the silliest statistics that they publish, I mean, to say that a college education is worth X because people that go to college earn this much more than the ones that don’t. You’re talking about two different universes.

And to attribute the entire difference to the one variable, that they went to college as opposed to the difference between the people who want to go to college and have the ability to get into college —

CHARLIE MUNGER: It’s completely nutty —

WARREN BUFFETT: — it’s a fraud

CHARLIE MUNGER: — and about 70 percent of the people believe in it. So it gives you a certain hesitation about relying on your fellow man. (Laughter)

So I think most people have to struggle through with the system the way it is.

There’s a big tendency to have prices rise to what can be collected. And people just rationalize that the service is worth it. And I think a lot of that has happened in education, and, of course — (applause) — a lot is taught in higher education that isn’t very useful to the people who are learning it and, of course, a lot of those people would never learn much from anything.

So it’s really wasting your time, and that’s just the way it works. So I think there’s a lot wrong.

What I noticed that was very interesting is that when the Great Recession came, every successful university in America was horribly overstaffed and they all behaved just like 3G. They all, with a shortage of money, laid off a lot of people. And the net result was they all worked better when it was all over with the people gone.

And so this right-sizing is not all bad. I don’t think there’s a college in America that wants to go back to its old habits. And — but you put your finger on — it is a real problem to look as those sticker shocks.

It’s like any other problem in life. You figure out your best option and just live with it.

We can’t change Villanova or Fordham. They’re going to do what they’re going to do. And as long as it works, they’ll keep raising the prices.

WARREN BUFFETT: And it will keep working.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Yes. And that’s pretty much the way the system works.

When it really gets awful there’s finally a rebellion. In my place in Los Angeles, the little traffic accident got so it cost too much to everybody because of so much fraud, and the chiropractors, and some of the plaintiffs’ attorneys, and so on.

And finally, the little accidents were costing so much that they worried about the guy who lived in a tough neighborhood who couldn’t afford to drive out to get a job. And the auto insurance companies thought, my God, with prices going up like this, they’ll have legislation creating state auto insurance or something.

So the net result is they put the plaintiffs’ attorneys to trial in every case, and that fixed it. And maybe something like that will happen in higher education. But without some big incentive, I think higher education will just keep raising the prices.

31. Bullish on China

WARREN BUFFETT: On that cheerful note, we’ll move to station 2.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Thank you for taking my question.

My name is Brendan Chin (PH). I’m form Taipei, Taiwan.

My question is, China is undergoing a number of structural changes. What do you — when you take the pulse of the Chinese economy, what do you read and what advice would you give? Thank you.

WARREN BUFFETT: Charlie’s the China expert. I think China’s going to do very fine over a period of time.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Yeah. I’m a big fan for what’s happening in China.

And as a matter of fact, I’ve just ordered — prepared — a bust of Lee Kuan Yew, the recently deceased ex-prime minister of Singapore, because I think he’s contributed so much to fixing, first Singapore, and then China.

And one of the things Lee Kuan Yew did in China — in Singapore — was to stop the corruption, including cashiering some of his close friends.

And China is doing the same thing. And I consider it the smartest damn thing I’ve seen a big country do in a long, long time, and I think that to — it’s hard to set the proper example if the leading political rulers are kleptocrats.

You know, you don’t want to be run by a den of thieves. You want responsible people.

And what Lee Kuan Yew did is he paid the civil servants way better and recruited very good people. And he just created a better system and, of course, China is widely copying him. And it’s a wonderful thing they’re doing.

So I’m very high on what’s going on in China, and I think it’s — I think it’s very likely to work. If you — they’ve actually shot a few people. That really gets people’s attention. (Laughter)

WARREN BUFFETT: Now we’re starting to get some practical advice here. (Laughter)

What has happened in China, you know, over the last 40 or so years, I mean, I — it just strikes me as totally miraculous. I don’t think — I would not have believed that a country could move so far so — a country of that size, particularly — so far so fast. And it’s —

CHARLIE MUNGER: It never happened before, in the history of the world, that a company so big had come so far. When I was a little boy, 80 percent of the population of China was illiterate and mired in subsistence poverty and agriculture.

Now just think — and they’ve been through horrible wars and look at them. It’s one of the most remarkable achievements in the history of the Earth.

And a few people made an extreme contribution to it, including this Chinese politician in Singapore.

And I give the Communist Party a lot of credit for copying Lee Kuan Yew.

That’s all Berkshire does is copy the right people.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. In 1790, the United States had 4 million people. China had 290 million people.

They were just as smart as we were. They worked as hard, similar climate, similar soil. And for 200 — close to 200 — years, you know, the United States went with those 4 million people to close to 25 percent of the world’s GDP and China really didn’t go anyplace.

And then those same people, in 40 years — and they’re not working harder now than they were 40 years ago — they’re not smarter now than they were 40 years ago, in terms of the basic intelligence — and just look at what’s been accomplished.

I mean, it does show you the human potential when you find a system that unleashes it, and we found a system that unleashed human potential a couple hundred years ago and they found a system that unleashed human potential 40 or 50 years ago.

And, you know, when you see that example, you know, it has to have a powerful effect on what happens in the future.

And it’s just amazing that you can have people go nowhere, basically, in their lives for centuries and then just — it explodes. And it just blows me away to see it, and you make it — it’s the same human beings, but they’ve — they found a way to unlock their potential and I congratulate them for it.

And as Charlie said earlier, China and the United States are going to be the superpowers for as far as the eye can see. And it is really good for us, in my view, that the Chinese have found the way to unlock their potential.

And I think its imperative for two countries with nuclear weapons that, in this kind of world, that they figure out ways to see the virtues in each other rather than the flaws.

We’ll have plenty of disagreements with the Chinese, and they will with us, but remember that on balance, we’re both better off if the other one is doing well. That’s just my own view. OK. (Applause)

32. “We just kept reading … and went with our instincts”

WARREN BUFFETT: Station 3, please.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello, Mr. Buffett and Mr. Munger. My name is Chander Chawla and I’m from San Francisco. Thank you for the last 50 years of sharing your wisdom and being an exemplar of integrity.

Fifty years ago, when you were starting out or getting into new industries, how did you figure out the operational metrics for a new industry where you did not have previous experience?

WARREN BUFFETT: Well, we — A) we didn’t have it thought out that well, in a sense, at that time.

But we basically looked for companies where we thought we could understand what the future would look like 5 or 10 or 15 years hence. And that didn’t mean we had to do it to four decimal places or anything of the sort, but we had to have a feel for it, and we had to know our limitations. So we stayed away from a lot of things.

And at that time, prices were different, so we — in terms of knowing we were getting enough for our money, it was a much easier decision than it is currently.

But it wasn’t — they weren’t elaborate — well, there were no planning sessions or anything of the sort. We just kept reading and we kept thinking and we kept looking at things that came along, as Charlie described it in the movie, and you know, comparing Opportunity A with Opportunity B.

And in those days, we were capital constrained, so we usually had to sell something if we were going to buy something else. And that always makes for — you know, that’s the — an interesting challenge, always, when you’re measuring something you hold against something that has come along and to see which is more attractive.

And we probably leaned very much toward things where we felt we were certain to get a decent result than where we were hopeful of getting a brilliant result.

Went with our instincts, and kept putting one foot in front of the other.

Charlie, what would you say?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, that’s exactly what we did, and it worked wonderfully well. And part of it is because we were such splendid people and worked so constructively, and part of it is we were a little lucky. We had some good fortune.

Now, Warren says he was lucky to go to GEICO, but not every 20-year-old was going down to Washington, D.C., and knocking on the doors of empty buildings to try and find something out that he was curious about.

So we made some of our luck by being curious and seeking wisdom, and we certainly recommend that to anybody else.

And there’s nothing that produces wisdom more thoroughly than really getting your own nose whacked hard when you make a mistake, and we had a firm amount of that, didn’t we?

WARREN BUFFETT: We had plenty of them. If you read this book, you’ll see about a few of them.

We thought we knew the department store business in Baltimore and we thought we knew about the trading stamp business.

We’ve had a lot of experience with bad businesses, and that makes you appreciate a good one. And to some extent, it sharpens your ability to make distinctions between good and bad ones.

And we’ve had a lot of fun along the way. That helps too. If you’re enjoying what you’re doing, you know, you’re likely to get a better result than if you go to work with your teeth clenched every morning.

CHARLIE MUNGER: I think we were helped because we came from families where there was some admirable people, and we tended to identify other admirable people better than we would have coming from a different background.

So, my deceased wife used to say, you can’t accomplish much in one generation.

We owe a considerable amount, both of us, to the families we were raised in. I think the family standards helped us to identify the good people more easily than we would have if we’d had a more disadvantaged background.

Do you agree with that, Warren?

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. Have you still got your father’s briefcase?

CHARLIE MUNGER: I’ve still got it, but I don’t know where it is. (Laughter)

Can’t carry it anymore. It’s worn out. It’s got holes in it.

WARREN BUFFETT: I’ve got my dad’s desk from 75 years ago.

33. How Buffett found his first investors

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Station 4.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi, Warren and Charlie. This is Cora and Dan Chen from Talguard in Los Angeles, and we’re thrilled to be here again.

Thank you for planting the seeds for which my generation can sit under the shade, and for my children’s generation with “The Secret Millionaires Club,” so that they can sit under the shade. I walk amongst giants.

WARREN BUFFETT: Go on. Go on. (Laughter)

AUDIENCE MEMBER: That’s all I have. (Laughter)

WARREN BUFFETT: Don’t hold back.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Seriously though, thank you so much for everything you’ve taught us.

WARREN BUFFET: Thank you.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: How were you able to persuade — (applause)

WARREN BUFFETT: Thank you.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: How were you able to persuade your early investors, all early on, besides your family and friends, to overcome their doubts and fears and to believe in what you’re doing?

There’s a lot of other asset classes out there, such as — a lot of people believe, real estate, bonds, gold. How were you able to get over that? And something I’ve been really dying to ask you —

CHARLIE MUNGER: We didn’t do very well until we had a winning record. (Laughter)

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Prior to the early winning record, how were you able to get them to buy into what you were trying to do?

I mean, no one has ever done what you’re doing, and no one has, still. And I’ve been really wanting to ask you, in the past, you said you’re 90 percent Graham and 10 percent Fisher. Where does that percentage stand today?

Thank you again from a grateful student of your teachings, and my children love what you do, too. They wrote you a letter.

WARREN BUFFETT: Thank you. Thank you. (Applause)

A lot of it — you know, I started selling stocks here when I was 20 years old. I got out of Columbia. And although I was 20, I looked about 16 and I behaved like I was about 12.

So I was not — I did not make a huge impression selling stocks. I used to just walk around downtown and call on people, which is the way it was done, and then I went to work for Graham.

But when I came back, the people that joined me, actually — one of my sisters, her husband, my father-in-law, my Aunt Alice, a guy I roomed with in college, and his mother, and I’ve skipped one — but in any event, those people just had faith in me.

And my father-in-law, who was a dean at the University — what was then the University of Omaha — he gave me everything he had, you know, and to quite an extent they all did.

And so it was — they knew I’d done reasonably well by that time. That would have been 1956, so I’d been investing five or six years. And actually, I was in a position where when I left New York and came back to Omaha, I had about $175,000 and I was retired.

So I guess they figured if I was retired at 26, I must be doing something right and they gave me their money.

And then it just unfolded after that. An ex-stockholder of Graham-Newman, the president of a college came out, Ben Graham was winding up his partnership for his fund and he recommended me.

And then another fellow saw the announcement in the paper that we formed a partnership and he called me and he joined, and just one after another.

And then, actually, a year or two later, a doctor family called and they were the ones that ended up with me meeting Charlie.

So a lot of stuff just comes along if you just keep plodding along.

But the record, later on, of the partnership attracted money, but initially it was much more just people that knew me and had faith in me. But these were small sums of money. We started with 105,000.

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, of course that’s the way you start, and — but it’s amazing. We’ve now watched a lot of other people start. And the people that have followed the old Graham-Newman path have one thing in common: they’ve all done pretty well. I can hardly think of anybody who hasn’t done moderately —

WARREN BUFFETT: Everybody did well, yeah.

CHARLIE MUNGER: So, if you just avoid being a perfect idiot — (laughter) — and have a good character and just keep doing it day after day, it’s amazing how it will work.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. It was accident, to a significant extent.

If a few of those people hadn’t have said to me, you know, “What should I buy?” And I said, “I’m not going to go back in the stock brokerage business, but I will — you know, we’ll form a partnership and, you know, your fate will be the same as mine and I won’t tell you what I’m doing.”

And they joined in, and it went from there.

But it was not — it was not planned out in the least. Zero.

I met Charlie, and he was practicing law, and I told him that was OK as a hobby, but it was a lousy business. (Laughter)

And so he —

CHARLIE MUNGER: Fortunately, I listened. (Laughter)

It took a while, however.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah.

34. Munger: rationality is a moral virtue

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Station 5. We’ve got —

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. My name is Arthur. I’m from Los Angeles. I want to thank you for having us in your hometown.

And we’ve all been listening to your business prowess and all your successes. There’s no question that you’re good at business and finance and have fun doing it.

But there are comments that you’ve made on income inequality, giving away 99 percent of your wealth, and I’m led to believe that you’re motivated by more than just amassing wealth or financial gains.

So, I’d like to speak to your value core and ask what matters to you most and why?

WARREN BUFFETT: Charlie, what matters to you most?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, I think that I had an unfortunate channeling device.

I was better at figuring things out than I was at everything else. I was never going to succeed as a movie star, or as an athlete, or as an actor, something, so — and I, early, got the idea that — partly from my family, my grandfather, in particular, whose name I bore, had the same idea — that really, your main duty is to become as rational as you could possibly be.

I mean, rationality was just totally worshiped by Judge Munger, and my father and others.

And since I was good at that and no good at anything else, I was steered in something that worked well for me and — but I do think rationality is a moral duty.

That’s the reason I like Confucius. He had the same idea all those years ago. And I think Berkshire is sort of a temple of rationality. What’s really admired around Berkshire is somebody who sees it the way it is. Wouldn’t you agree with that, Warren?

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah, that —

CHARLIE MUNGER: More than anything, more than —

WARREN BUFFETT: You better see it the way it is.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Huh?

WARREN BUFFETT: You better see it the way it is.

CHARLIE MUNGER: See it the way it is.

And so, that’s the way I did it.

But that goes beyond a technique for amassing wealth. To me that’s a moral principle.

I think if you have some easily removable ignorance and keep it, it’s dishonorable. I don’t think it’s just a mistake or a lack of diligence. I think it’s dishonorable to stay stupider than you have to be, and so that’s my ethos.

And I think you have to be generous because it’s crazy not to be. We’re a social animal, and we’re tied to other people.

WARREN BUFFETT: Well, I would say — this doesn’t sound very noble, but the — what matters to me most now, and probably has for some time — I mean, there are things that matter that you can’t do anything about, I mean, in terms of health and the health of those around you and all that — but actually, what matters to me most is that Berkshire does well.

Basically, I’m in a position where we’ve probably got a million or more people that are involved with us, and it just so happens that it’s enormously enjoyable to me so I can rationalize it, the activity.

But I would not be happy if Berkshire were doing poorly. That doesn’t mean whether the stock goes down or whether, you know, the economy has a bad year.

But if I felt that we weren’t building something every year that was better than what we had the year before, I would not be happy.

And, you know, I get this enormous fun out of it and I get to work with people I like and —

CHARLIE MUNGER: But that’s very important. Truth of the matter is it’s easy for somebody like Warren or me to lose a little of our own money, because it doesn’t matter that much, but we hate losing somebody else’s.

It’s — and that’s a very desirable attitude to have in a civilization.

Don’t you hate losing Berkshire money?

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. That would be the only thing that would keep me up at night. (Laughs)

CHARLIE MUNGER: Yeah.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. We won’t do it.

We can lose money on individual things, obviously. We can have bad years in the economy, and we can have years the stock market goes down a lot. That doesn’t bother me in the least.

What bothers me is if I do something that actually costs Berkshire, in terms of its long-term value, and then I feel, you know, I do not feel good about life on that day.

But we can avoid most of that, fortunately. We do get to pick our spots. We’re very fortunate with that.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, a good doctor doesn’t like it when the patient dies on the table, either, you know. (Laughter)

Not a new thought. (Laughter)

35. No help for “the most intelligent question”

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. Let’s go to — let’s go to station 6.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi, Mr. Buffett and Mr. Munger. My name is Petra Bergman. I’m from Stockholm, Sweden, in northern Europe. I work at something called EFN.SE.

I wanted to ask you, from my point of view, what would be the answer to the most intelligent question I could ask you right now? (Laughter)

CHARLIE MUNGER: Everybody tries that question, and it would be wonderful if that would solve all your problems. But I don’t think it’s a very good question. (Laughter)

Or perhaps I should say —

WARREN BUFFETT: Let’s phrase that differently, Charlie.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, what I mean is, you’re asking too much of somebody when you — you ask him to honestly say what is the most enlightening question he can answer.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. I get that asked by the students a lot. And I’ve had a lot of practice in hearing it asked, but I haven’t had very much success in answering it.

So I’ll have to beg off on that one.

36. Buffett on fun and “the game”

WARREN BUFFETT: How about 7?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good afternoon, Warren and Charlie. Congrats on 50 years. My name is Jim and I’m from Brooklyn, New York.

This is kind of a follow-on to a recent question. You both had success in investing, even before Berkshire Hathaway, as investors and as fund managers.

While it’s well known you closely followed Graham’s teachings, others, like Walter Schloss and his son, also had success with similar teachings, yet different strategies.

What would you cite as the most important reason for your early success with small amounts of capital, and given hindsight today, what might you have done to improve your strategy with these small funds?

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. Well, I had a great teacher, I had exceptional focus, and I had the right sort of emotional qualities that would help me in being an investor.

I enjoyed the game. You do give it all back in the end. It wouldn’t make any difference if I — you know, that was not the key thing.

The game was enormously fun. And I think Gene McCarthy said about football one time, you know, it’s just about, you know, hard enough to be interesting but not so hard as to be beyond the capabilities of people understanding it, and that’s kind of the way this game is.

I mean, it’s not like Henry Singleton, kind of questions he took on. It’s actually a pretty easy game, and it does require a certain emotional stability.

And I went at it hammer and tong. I went through the manuals and everything, but I was enjoying when I did it.

And, like I say, I started out — between ages seven and about 19, I had that same enthusiasm, but I didn’t really have any guiding principle.

And then I ran into “The Intelligent Investor” and Ben Graham. And then at that point, I was able to take all this energy and everything, and enthusiasm for it, and now I had a philosophy that made a lot of sense — total sense — and I found that I could employ, and so the game became even more fun. But it wasn’t really more complicated than that.

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, I don’t have anything to add.

I do think that it’s an easy game if somebody has the temperament for it and keeps at it because he’s — likes it and it’s interesting — interested in it.

I have a problem that Warren has less of. I don’t like being too much an example to people who want to get rich by being shrewd and buying and passively holding securities.

I don’t think that’s enough of a life. If you wrest a fortune from life by being shrewder than other people and buying little pieces of paper, I don’t think that’s an adequate contribution in exchange for what you’re taking.

So, I like it when you’re investing money for an endowment, or a pension fund, or your relatives, or something, but I never considered it enough of a life to merely be shrewd in picking stocks and passively holding them.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. Running Berkshire has been far, far more fun than running, in my case, multiple partnerships, or just an investment fund. I mean, that —

CHARLIE MUNGER: You’d be less of a man. If you’d run that partnership —

WARREN BUFFETT: It would be a crazy way to go through life.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Yeah.

WARREN BUFFETT: Yeah. I mean, it just — you know, Berkshire is incredibly more satisfying.

CHARLIE MUNGER: So if you’re good at just investing your own money, I hope you’ll morph into doing something more.

37. Dow Jones’s big missed opportunity

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. We’ll do 8 and then we’ll move onto the annual meeting.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is John Boxtose (PH). I’m from South Dartmouth, Massachusetts.

My question was regarding an interview that you gave, Mr. Buffett, several years ago.

You made a very interesting point. It was about the old Wall Street Journal, if you will, the one before it was purchased by News Corp.

You mentioned in the interview that Wall Street Journal, at some point in the past, had very significant competitive advantages, but a number of them were largely unrealized.

I was just wondering if you could elaborate on that, what the advantages were, how they were unrealized, et cetera. Thank you.

WARREN BUFFETT: Well, Dow Jones, which owned the Wall Street Journal, you know, in the ’60s and ’70s, going into the era of the enormous spread of financial information — and value of financial information — you know, they basically, they owned the field.

They had the news ticker and they had the Journal, which, you know, anybody interested in finance in the country identified with.

And they — starting with that, in what would be an incredible growth industry, finance, you know, for the next 30 or 40 years they — I forget a couple of those ventures they went into, and they bought a chain of small newspapers, I remember, one time — and they just totally missed what was going to happen.

You know, here comes Michael Bloomberg and, you know, takes away financial information. They had such an advantage. And they didn’t really see various areas that they could have pursued, which could have turned that company into something worth many hundreds of billions of dollars, in all probability.

And, you know, they had a situation where a family owned it, and a lawyer essentially controlled the family’s behavior, and they were sitting pretty. You know, they were all getting dividends, but there was nobody there with any imagination as to what could be done in the financial field.

So, starting with this position, they were a trusted name, they were in every brokerage firm in the country with a news ticker.

I mean, I went to Walter Annenberg’s house one time and he had the Dow Jones ticker there — it just — or the news ticker.

And it was — they couldn’t have been in a better place. They couldn’t have started with a stronger position. They had a very good balance sheet. And they just let the world pass them by.

Now, Rupert is changing it into a different newspaper. He’s going into — he’s basically going into competition with the — or he’s gone into competition — with the New York Times, so he — but that’s the game he likes. And it makes for a very interesting competitive situation.

Charlie?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, they did end up with 6 or $7 billion, so they may have blown their opportunities, but they didn’t destroy their fortune.

WARREN BUFFETT: If you’d had the hand — if Tom Murphy had had the hand —

CHARLIE MUNGER: Oh, yeah.

WARREN BUFFETT: — it would have been in the hundreds of billions, wouldn’t it?

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, I don’t know. I’m not sure if we had had that hand we would have —

WARREN BUFFETT: Well, I’m not so sure. I’m talking about Murph. (Laughs)

There were a lot of opportunities there.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, I think even Murph is more like us than he is like Bill Gates.

WARREN BUFFETT: Well, I’m not sure where that goes, but... (Laughter)

CHARLIE MUNGER: Well, but I think it’s hard to invent new — entirely new — modalities and so on.

WARREN BUFFETT: I think Bill would have done well with Dow Jones, too.

CHARLIE MUNGER: Yes. He might —

WARREN BUFFETT: I’d like to buy into that retroactively.

38. Q&A concludes

WARREN BUFFETT: OK. 3:30 has arrived. We’re going to go to the annual meeting in about five minutes. We’ve got a certain amount of formal business to take care of. And I thank you all for coming. (Applause)

39. Berkshire’s formal annual business meeting

WARREN BUFFETT: Let’s reassemble and we’ll conduct the business of the meeting.

The meeting will now come to order. I’m Warren Buffett, chairman of the board of directors of the company, and I welcome you to this 2015 annual meeting of shareholders.

This morning I introduced the Berkshire Hathaway directors that are present.

Also with us today are partners in the firm of Deloitte & Touche, our auditors. They are available to respond to appropriate questions you might have concerning the firm’s audit of the accounts of Berkshire.

Sharon Heck is secretary of Berkshire Hathaway, and she will make a written record of the proceedings.

Becki Amick has been appointed inspector of elections at this meeting. She will certify to the count of votes cast in the election for directors and the motion to be voted at this meeting.

The named proxy holders for this meeting are Walter Scott and Marc Hamburg.

Does the secretary have a report of the number of Berkshire shares outstanding, entitled to vote, and represented at the meeting?

SHARON HECK: Yes, I do. As indicated in the proxy statement that accompanied the notice of this meeting that was sent to all shareholders of record on March 5, 2015, the record date for this meeting, there were 824,920 shares of Class A Berkshire Hathaway common stock outstanding, with each share entitled to one vote on motions considered at the meeting, and 1,227,069,442 shares of Class B Berkshire Hathaway common stock outstanding, with each share entitled to one ten-thousandth of one vote on motions considered at the meeting.

Of that number, 592,750 Class A shares and 736,403,387 Class B shares are represented at this meeting by proxies returned through Thursday evening, April 30.

WARREN BUFFETT: Thank you, Sharon. That number represents a quorum, and we will therefore directly proceed with the meeting.

First order of business will be a reading of the minutes of the last meeting of shareholders. I recognize Mr. Walter Scott, who will place a motion before the meeting.

WALTER SCOTT: I move that the reading of the minutes of the last meeting of shareholders be dispensed with and the minutes be approved.

WARREN BUFFETT: Do I hear a second?

VOICE: I second the motion.

WARREN BUFFETT: The motion has been moved and seconded. Are there any comments or questions?

We will vote on this motion by voice vote. All those if favor say “Aye.”

AUDIENCE: Aye.

WARREN BUFFETT: Opposed? The motion is carried.

40. Election of Berkshire directors

WARREN BUFFETT: The next item of business is to elect directors.

If a shareholder is present who did not send in a proxy or wishes to withdraw a proxy previously sent in, you may vote in person on the election of directors and other matters to be considered at this meeting. Please identify yourself to one of the meeting officials in the aisle so that you can receive a ballot.

I recognize Mr. Walter Scott to place a motion before the meeting with respect to election of directors.

WALTER SCOTT: I move that Warren Buffett, Charles Munger, Howard Buffett, Stephen Burke, Susan Decker, William Gates, David Gottesman, Charlotte Guyman, Thomas Murphy, Ronald Olson, Walter Scott, and Meryl Witmer be elected as directors.

WARREN BUFFETT: Is there a second?

VOICE: Second.

WARREN BUFFETT: It has been moved and seconded that Warren Buffett, Charles Munger, Howard Buffett, Stephen Burke, Susan Decker, William Gates, David Gottesman, Charlotte Guyman, Thomas Murphy, Ronald Olson, Walter Scott, and Meryl Witmer be elected as directors.

Are there any other nominations? Is there any discussion? The nominations are ready to be acted upon.

If are there any shareholders voting in person, they should now mark their ballot on the election of directors and deliver their ballot to one of the meeting officials in the aisles.

Ms. Amick, when you are ready, you may give your report.

BECKI AMICK: My report is ready. The ballot of the proxy holders in response to proxies that were received through last Thursday evening cast not less than 657,744 votes for each nominee. That number far exceeds a majority of the number of the total votes of all Class A and Class B shares outstanding.

The certification required by Delaware law of the precise count of the votes will be given to the secretary to be placed with the minutes of this meeting.

WARREN BUFFETT: Thank you, Ms. Amick. Warren Buffett, Charles Munger, Howard Buffett, Stephen Burke, Susan Decker, William Gates, David Gottesman, Charlotte Guyman, Thomas Murphy, Ronald Olson, Walter Scott, and Meryl Witmer have been elected as directors.

41. Adjournment of formal Berkshire annual meeting

WARREN BUFFETT: Does anyone have any further business to come before this meeting before we adjourn?

If not, I recognize Mr. Scott to place a motion before the moving.

WALTER SCOTT: I move that this meeting be adjourned.

WARREN BUFFETT: Second?

VOICE: Seconded.

WARREN BUFFETT: A motion to adjourn has been made and seconded. We will vote by voice. Is there any discussion? If not, all in favor say “Aye.”

AUDIENCE: Aye.