#well actually no i think he Could be a sith with the mindset of anger and hate making you more powerful

[1tsjusty0u]

i think i read a loz star wars au before (or at least a space au) but . well i cant say id like to take a crack at it because thats a lie but. unfortunately. i am thinking about it

[that-one-kiddo-in-the-back]

Grey Jedi and Mandalorians. She's wrong about both

To start off, I am what Lily would describe as a Star Wars weeb. I live, breathe, and shit star wars.

First things first, Gray jedi is not a thing in canon. I'm sorry, everyone who wanted it to be canon it's just not. Ahsoka isn't a gray Jedi and none of the other morally gray characters that can use the force, and it's not because of what Lily thinks. simply put, no mortal force user can be in the middle. Now, you can have force users that don't aline themselves with the jedi or the sith, but that doesn’t make them a Gray jedi. If you're a jedi, you use the light side. That's why you're a jedi, and if you're a sith, you use the dark. That's why you're a sith.

Now that that's out of the way... Lily doesn't know how the Jedi and the Sith work or why people actually want a gray Jedi. She chalks people wanting a gray Jedi as people who can't make a choice because they are scared of that, not because maybe they want a force user that uses both sith techniques and jedi techniques. She brings up the jedi and sith code

She describes the Jedi code as "living without based passion," which isn't the same as just having no attachments. The jedi is loosely based on Buddhist priests who have no earthly attachments, so they can focus on their own self and inner peace and describes the Sith code as something they came up with to spit on the Jedi code and that the "passion they have is was is what's worth living and that living is the nature of the force" and how the sith code is asking why a Jedi wants to be an "empty husk of a person" which it isn't. Much like how the Jedi aren't perfect all the time... the sith still aren't the good guys. The only way you can use sith techniques is to let your anger and other negative feelings run through you. To use your anger to fan the flame where as the Jedi believes that the anger can drown you in sorrow and make you do things you wouldn't.

In Star Wars rebels season three, you watch Ezra struggle with the dark side after everything that happened on Malachor. You watched him become almost a completely different person, how he no longer saw his friends and family as equals but possessions. You saw how he was quickly to anger, and you can see the looks on the crews face when they can tell he's in a bad mood he was spiraling in his guilt for Ahsoka's "death" and getting Kanan blinded by maul. Everyone could tell he wasn't dealing with his trauma in a healthy way. Something lily needs to understand about the Sith is that they are all traumatized for one reason or another, i.e. it's considered taboo for a sith to pick up a young child. The sith believes you have to experience pain in order to open yourself up to the dark side.

The Jedi learns to let go of the past to move forward where the Sith cling onto the hate and lose themselves to it.

Mandalorian time, next to the mortis gods (the ones), the Mandalorians are my favorite group

The Mandalorians are like the real world Spartans (my siblings call them space spartans) fighting and survival of the fitteat teaching their children at young ages to protect themselves and others that can keep up that doesn’t mean they will watch you die well for some anyway. Mandalore is a bit more like earth as it has many clans, with some getting long with each other and others not so much.

She does have a point in that Mandalorians are toxic masculinity except for the fact that their are women Mandalorians and not all the Mandalorians think the same way hell the Mandalorians themselves talk about how much their own war mindset is destroying their planet death watch are considered traitors.

Something I thought was pretty interesting was how she made fun of people who say that Mandalorians can go toe to toe with the jedi... which is a true thing? The jedi and the Mandalorians don't get along all that much because of philosophy and other things. Mandalorian armor is made out of a metal that can't be melted by a lightsaber they made an energy whip to grab like the jedi when they use the force, and my favorite fact that the Mandalorians made guns called slugthrowers which as basically pistols that fire bullets making it impossible for Jedi to defect them

She also brings up dutchess Satine as the "only person that doesn't want the constant war" and how she was killed only for Obi Wan's characters' development and completely ignoring Bo-Katan's. Yeah, she died in Obi Wan's arms, but that didn't really develop his character. If anything, Bo-Katan had much more of an impact as she left Death Watch, the main group that was responsible for her sisters death and even helped get maul the man that killed her sister dethroned the jedi didn't save the Mandalorians they helped them.

At the end of her video, she goes on about how people who like the like the Mandalorians are plugging our ears and going lalalala at her claims, which are fair fan boys in Star Wars are one of the most toxic people you'll find. For Mother's Day, I made a tiktok saying which woman in Star Wars would be a good mother and had one guy telling me to go back to the kitchen (little shameless sharing of my own content don't mind me)

but what killed me was the fact that she fully blames the Jedi for making the clones. Which just isn't true. The clones were a trap set by Darth sidious and count dokku they were made with Jango fett's DNA with his consistency, and he got his own kid out of it. For the most part, the clones were treated with respect from the Jedi plo Koon treating them like battle brothers Anakin treating them like the people they are. Aayla even developed feelings for her commander, Bly. The sith made them kill the jedi when the time was right.

Something that needs to be said is that the Jedi didn't want the war they didn’t want to fight. No one except the sith and corrupted officials wanted the war because of how big it would be, and even more so, no one liked the idea of the clones everyone saw it as a slave army, which only fueled the Confederacy not liking the republic.

If Lily was a Star Wars character, she would have bought all the propaganda about the Jedi being blood thirsty and needed Order 66 to happen. she'd be on the empire side and call the rebel alliance a group of terrorists. Yes, the clones are slaves but they aren't the Jedi's slaves they're the siths Slaves.

Like I said before, at the beginning, I am a big fan of Star Wars, and for the most part of the video, she has some good points I just really wished she'd understand that the Sith aren't good people the Sith are fueled with revenge they use and manipulate the people around them for their own benefit yes the Jedi were corrupt, yes the Jedi aren't good people either. Get the sith off that pedestal. Yes, the Mandalorians aren't the galaxies' strongest species, and yes, the Mandalorians are the physical embodiment of toxic masculinity, but that doesn’t mean the Mandalorians are something that needs to die out.

[transmalewife]

Alright, let's talk about attachment

I can’t find clear information on when exactly the non-attachment rule was added to the code. It was either soon before or soon after the great sith war. Either way, for the VAST majority of the existence of the Jedi, it wasn’t a thing. Jedi got married and had families for over 20000 years, then added the non-attachment rule, which ultimately led to their destruction. And before anyone tries to tell me I believe they deserved to be genocided, I don’t. I have never actually seen anyone say that, but I see people argue against it constantly, and imply anyone who doesn’t think the Jedi were perfect and blameless thinks that. I don’t think they deserved to die, I think they needed to change. And Yoda says that himself, many times. The Jedi weren’t prepared for the return of the sith, or the war. They had separated from the military 1000 years before, and the galaxy was in relative peace all this time, so the order’s role changed to one that worked very well with their rules. Detachment meant they could be impartial when overseeing political disagreements, lack of possessions meant they would be focused on the mission at hand and not prone to taking bribes, and distancing themselves from the general population meant they were more or less uniform, and could be trusted not to side with someone for personal reasons.

All of this falls apart once they become an army again. Impartiality is a flaw when they have to defend one side at all cost and not even allow themselves to consider compromise. Lack of possessions and attachment to people means they are prone to taking unnecessary risks, because they have nothing to lose, and do things like send 14 year olds into battle, thinking of the “greater good” over the safety of children. And the order being a monolith, with set rules and philosophy distinct from the rest of the population meant the Jedi trusted Dooku long after they should have stopped, because he used to be a Jedi after all, surely he still follows the code.

Now, I am not saying non-attachment is always bad, I think it served a very specific purpose in the order, and to some extent worked for many years. However.

Humans are a social species. Human babies NEED physical contact and affection to develop physically. Children need a stable, strong, and supportive relationship to their caregiver to properly develop psychologically. And after last year I don’t think anyone will argue that adults don't need connection with other people just as much. And not just shallow interactions, but open affection and love. Love of any kind, because claiming that the Jedi only forbid romantic love is just untrue. I think people tend to forget that "Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is essential to a Jedi's life. So you might say, that we are encouraged to love." isn’t the actual doctrine, it’s a literal pick up line that Anakin uses on Padme.

Ahsoka and Obi-Wan both get criticized by other Jedi for their entirely platonic attachment to Anakin, and vice versa. Now, humans are the most common species in the galaxy, and in the Jedi order. Many other species are near-human, so it’s safe to assume at least some, if not most of them also need that companionship and affection to develop and live happy and stable lives. I do believe that non-attachment is a valid philosophy and chosen path in life if done carefully and within reason, I just don’t think we have a single major character that actually applies to. And chosen is an important word here. Jedi don’t get much of a choice. I’m not trying to start the baby-stealing debate here. I hear the argument of ‘force sensitives are dangerous if left untrained, and said training should start as early as possible’. I think finding a way to deal with that problem was an insanely complicated decision, and taking children into the temple as young as possible is not a bad solution. I don’t entirely agree with not letting them see their families later, (especially since in legends Obi-Wan was allowed to visit his family, which implies Anakin couldn’t go free his mother specifically because he was already too attached), but the idea is sound. I do also understand that no one is forcing Jedi to stay in the order and they can leave for whatever reason at any time. But that isn’t exactly a free choice either. Leaving the order means leaving the only home you remember, the only people you know to make your own way in the galaxy, and staying with those people means you can never fully love them. It’s a difficult solution to a complicated question, and for the most part, it worked (not always, and not exactly as intended, but I’ll come back to that.) Children grew up in the order, were trained to control themselves and the force, and became Jedi who were impartial, patient, and balanced. But everything falls apart when you introduce someone who wasn’t raised in the temple.

In The Rising Force, 13 year old Obi-Wan had barely been off Coruscant in his life. He describes himself as sheltered and unaware of all the pain in the galaxy, and says it was done on purpose, so younglings wouldn’t have to face the dark side before they were ready for it. But Anakin had seen nothing but darkness, pain and injustice before he joined the order. He was severely traumatized, and while the temple might have had some ways of dealing with trauma and PTSD in adults, they had no experience in treating the same in a child, because their children were kept safe and protected. The idea of letting go of your pain and fear only works if you know you have a safe place to come back to, if you’ve spent the first decade or so of your life in the most protected place in the galaxy. Anakin spent the first decade of his life as a slave. He couldn’t let go of his fear, because fear was what kept him alive. Fear is not irrational if you are constantly in danger, it’s what protects you, keeps you aware of the limits you can push before you get punished. And that mindset doesn’t fade just because you’re out of that situation, especially if your only family, the closest person to you, is still facing that danger every day.

I’ve seen people use every excuse possible to explain why Anakin didn’t see his mother again to avoid blaming the council, including, and I shit you not, “He just didn’t have her comm number”. But to me that seems disingenuous, when we see in his first meeting with the council that they already consider him too attached. It's one of the main reasons they don’t want him to be trained, so it seems logical that they wouldn’t allow him to see her once he became a padawan. I also want to mention that what Yoda says, “Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.” Is just… blatant catastrophizing. Right? Like we can all see that the escalation is not rational there at all. Maybe it could apply to something else, but not to a child who just left his mother for the first time in his life and went from a tiny dustball in the middle of nowhere to the most populated planet in the galaxy, and is now being tested by a bunch of old people with the power to decide his future. Obviously he’s afraid, and obviously he’s not dealing with it the way Jedi younglings do. That, in and of itself doesn't doom him to fall. Also what Yoda misses there is that suffering leads to fear. This is a closed loop, and one that has defined Anakin’s entire childhood.

Let’s come back to how the system doesn’t always work. The way I see it, most of the characters we see are attached. Obi-Wan is considered one of the greatest Jedi of his time. Windu describes him as “our most cunning and insightful Master—and our most tenacious”. And yet, he was not insightful enough to look past his love for Anakin, his attachment, and see how close to falling he was. Ahsoka was so attached to Anakin she refused to listen to Maul on Mandalore, refused to even consider the posibility he could fall. She was arguably the person with the best shot at preventing the empire forming at that point, and she loved anakin so much she doomed him and the entire galaxy. Aayla admitted to thinking of Quinlan as her father, and also, apparently in legends had a long relationship with Kit. Even Mace didn’t follow the code when he decided to kill Palpatine, which directly led to his death and the empire. He also indirectly caused the war to start. According to wookiepedia “Windu viewed Dooku as the shatterpoint of the entire Separatist movement, which meant striking Dooku down would theoretically end the imminent clone war before it even began. However, Windu's prior attachments to Dooku clouded his judgment.” I’m not even going to mention Kanan and Ezra, who are obviously family.

So basically everyone is attached and lying about it. How has no one thought that maybe this isn’t the healthiest way to live and tried to change the code? Well, I have a theory, and it’s Yoda. He was 900 years old when he died, and was on the council for the vast majority of his life. I can’t find when exactly he became grand master, but it’s safe to assume he held some degree of power over the entire order for most of a millennium. At the end of TPM he tells Obi-Wan “Confer on you the level of Jedi knight, the council does. But agree with your taking this boy as your padawan learner, I do not.” Then he reverses that decision by himself. So either he has the power to veto the council’s word, or who gets trained is entirely up to him. Either way, not great, considering his lifespan is so much longer than most Jedi, and therefore his approach to life is vastly different. Humans need love and closeness to live. However, while we don’t know much about Yoda’s species, it probably isn’t a social one. You could count all the characters of this species on two (human) hands, and Yoda lived in complete isolation for 20 years on Dagobah, and only went a little bit insane. They are naturally rare, and therefore probably lead solitary lives in nature. Moreover, Yoda outlived every master who trained him, and almost every padawan he trained himself, (there’s a great post about that here) so even if he wasn’t naturally predisposed to non-attachment, he would have had to learn it to deal with all the loss he had to live through over the years.

A lot of people think that Anakin fell because he had attachments, which is not true. He fell because of how his attachments played out and/or ended. The most obvious example being Palpatine, who used Anakin’s trust and friendship to groom him for over a decade and actively undermine Anakin’s trust towards anyone else, especially the order. (more on that here). Obi-Wan refused to take on the role of a father figure that Anakin tried to shove him into, so he turned to someone who did accept it. It’s not Anakin’s fault that it turned out to be the worst person alive, nor can we expect him to notice when he’s known Palpatine since he was a child. Another failure of jedi non-attachment, because a loving parent or guardian would not let their child be used as a bargaining chip when the most powerful politician in the galaxy blackmailed the order into allowing him to meet Anakin regularly, but a distant teacher and detached knight thinking of the greater good might. The other attachments Anakin had were taken from him (Shmi and Ahsoka, the last orchestrated by Palpatine who was fully ready to give her the death penalty to make Anakin more unstable), or he was forced to lie and hide them, compromising his vows as a Jedi (Padme) or refused to choose Anakin over the order/their principles (Obi-Wan, and again Ahsoka, and to some extent Padme, but he’d already fallen then). All these people had every right to make the choices they made, but it wasn’t the act of loving them that made Anakin turn to the dark side, it was how those attachments played out.

I think everyone agrees that Yoda is as detached as a Jedi should, if not can, be, and that didn’t prevent Dooku from falling. We see that explored in more detail with Barriss and Luminara. Luminara is detached and distant, she’s fond of Barriss, but their relationship is not familial in the slightest, and she repeatedly shows her willingness to put the greater good and the mission before Barriss’ safety and even life. And yet Barriss still falls. A complex combination of events and choices caused each of those characters to fall, not the simple presence or absence of attachment.

And lastly, just as attachment can make you unstable if your relationship with that person is unstable, it can also make you stronger. There is a reason Anakin and Obi-Wan were the face of the army. Not only did their obvious attachment (the strongest between two jedi we are shown) make them more relatable to the public, but they, when working as a team, are shown repeatedly to be more or less undefeatable. They spend half of aotc flinging themselves off great heights because they know the other will be there to catch them. They know from years of experience that they have backup and they know each other well enough (or force bond communicate) that they can trust the other will be where he needs to be to help/save them. Contrast that to how Windu and Palpatine fight in rots once the window breaks- very carefully, clearly holding back to keep themselves safe. Neither of them has backup until Anakin arrives, but until the last second they can't be sure which one he will choose. Anakin and Obi-Wan fight the same way on Mustafar, especially when balancing on that thin bridge. No acrobatics, swinging arms to keep balance, keeping their distance, being almost uncharacteristically careful compared to how they treated heights in aotc, in tcw, and on the invisible hand in rots, because they both know the other won't catch them if they fall this time.

[twilightofthe]

What was your opinion of the Clovis arc? People I know either love it or hate it, no in between. I generally liked it but found it waayyy ooc.

Hey anon, thanks for the ask!!!!

AHSJFLSLALK OK SO UH. Wow. Clovis arc. Yiiiiiiikes ok so. I totally agree with you on the fandom divide and I also totally agree that everyone involved in it is rather OOC for my taste. That being said, that case of OOC is exactly why I personally do not like the arc that much at all.

(Please note that my following words are MY PERSONAL OPINIONS, and that anyone is free to disagree, in fact I welcome the discussion, and even if this is your favorite arc, please consider yourself welcome on my blog I hold nothing against those who might like it)

Part of me was gonna make a short and sweet point about how I don’t like that TCW has had both of its main female characters have unwanted kisses forced on them, and instead of teaching young girls watching to tell those kinds of people to fuck off and respect their bodies, we get: 1. Just let it happen, you both must kinda like each other anyway or 2. Stay still then sit back while your boyfriend beats him half to death

But actually turns out I wanted to spend all day writing an essay so now you get this. So far I’m gonna hit four points:

the show’s constant need for Vader foreshadowing sometimes tending to completely override Anakin’s current mindset and personality he should have at this point in the timeline as well as his preestablished characterization

the way TCW gave Anakin a giant dosage of toxic masculinity to try and please the pissy movie critics who didn’t like that he cried

the role of Padmé and how TCW tries to portray her as a “strong woman” by just having her constantly be irritated by and sometimes even look like she actively dislikes her husband while simultaneously have her act OOC so they can blame HER and her actions for Anakin’s reactions and anger and overall Fall

How I think this arc is not irredeemable and that with some fixes it could be done decently— decently, not well, because a lot of this arc’s problems are also due to preexisting writing choices throughout the show

(Ok whoops this turned into a half Clovis arc rant half entire TCW Anidala commentary)

So firstly I wanna start that yes, I am fully aware that TCW is meant to fill in the gaps between AOTC and ROTS and help explain why Anakin’s mindset in the final movie is what it is and justify his Fall. Of course we need to show some Vader foreshadowing throughout the series, and in some places it is executed very well, notably the Mortis arc, the Bad Batch arc, the Wrong Jedi arc, as well as others that I can’t cite off the top of my head currently because I might have a mild touch of heat exhaustion wooo I need to get off the beach.

But it also has some rather hamfisted Vader foreshadowing stuff too. Like, y’all know the fandom joke where it’s like “Anakin: *Accidentally Leaves The Toilet Seat Up*. The Background Music: *BLASTS the Imperial March*” but like, they actually really do that. Like the time where they have Anakin take out a terrorist about to blow up an entire ship full of people and then play the Imperial March afterwards and imply he’s a “cold-blooded killer” just to defend the moral purity of the two people who were gonna stand there and let the ship blow in the name of idealism.

I’m getting off topic but yeah, sometimes the show’s Vader foreshadowing makes sense, sometimes it’s pretty forced, and the Clovis arc DEFINITELY leans towards the forced side, and when they try to force more of Darth Vader into Anakin at a point where he shouldn’t quite be there yet, it screws with his entire character.

This is particularly shown in the majority of the show’s takes on Anakin’s relationship with Padmé. Namely, they tend to forget nearly the entirety of AOTC with the exception of the Tusken murder scene, then forget even more of ROTS up until the point where Anakin strangles her on Mustafar. Basically, they take the truth that it was Anakin’s unhealthy attachment to Padmé that sparked his Fall, but then they decide to run with it where almost every single interaction he has with her in the damn show is him being a toxic overbearing dick to her and her acting like she mildly tolerates him at most and definitely doesnt respect him as like, I guess a way of showing what happened on Mustafar is in character for them???? Ugh, I’ll explain further.

So with Anakin’s aggressive possessiveness towards her. We know Anakin has possession and attachment issues. We know he’s a clingy needy whiny anxious mess who’s constantly afraid of losing or driving away the few people he has pinned his entire happiness on. We know he leans unhealthily on Padmé to provide the majority of his emotional support. We know he’s convinced himself he can’t live without her. But never, NEVER is it seen in the movies where his possessiveness turns into outward aggression towards her or this douchey pushiness. Never does he treat her like his property, like she belongs to him.

Not until Mustafar.

Not until he’s raving, half out of his mind with the warring emotions over the atrocities he’s just committed, until he’s begging her to understand where he was coming from, begging her and the child to stay with him and justify his decision, until he sees Obi Wan and sees her backing away from him, leaving him, and he PANICS because oh no no no you can’t abandon me, I need you, doN’T YOU WALK AWAY FROM ME. And he lashes out and tries to force her to stay, punish her for leaving and doubting him, and he puts that hand around her throat.

And that is supposed to be when we know he’s crossed the line, when we’re supposed to be horrified, where we know he’s lost himself, because he has NEVER ACTED LIKE THAT BEFORE.

Now how does Anakin act before? In the movies? He’s deferential to Padmé in almost every other scene they’re in together.

In AOTC, yeah he stares at her a bit creepily from a distance, he says awkward things and does goofy stuff to impress her, but he does Not get in her face. The few times he does invade her space, she flat out tells him: stand back. Don’t look at me like that. Don’t say that. Don’t interrupt me. And Anakin always, always backs off, respects her wishes. He follows her lead and lets her call the shots both on Naboo when he’s supposed to be protecting her and when she organizes the Geonosis rescue and once they arrive where she flat out tells him “I’m a Senator, I’ll handle this, just back me up”, and he’s all but just “ok yes queen”.

But they aren’t married then. Fine, take ROTS. It’s a movie all about Anakin’s issues but even then, when he’s worried about Padmé dying, he tells her he’s worried and that he can’t lose her, but he still keeps a distance. He doesn’t constantly hover and loom over her. If anything, Padmé, both in ROTS and AOTC is always the one to approach Anakin and close the distance when there’s conflict. When Anakin is upset, he averts his eyes and distances himself, tries to draw in on himself and brood silently, and we’ve seen it in Palpatine sometimes (of course with bad motives but he still does), but Obi Wan and Padmé both especially needing to be the ones to come over, turn his face to them and be like “hey, look at me, I care about you, what’s wrong”. Padmé SAYS in ROTS when he’s feeling specifically conflicted about losing Padmé, “don’t shut me out” and has to come over to him because he’s retreated into a corner of the room to scowl angstily out the window. Anakin does NOT get overbearing and possessive of her or get in her face, not once in the films.

In the fucking show? The Clovis arc, while perhaps the worst offender, isn’t even close to being the first time Anakin has been overly pushy and aggressive with Padmé, or acting like she’s something he owns, From that time in the Senate Hostage ep where he’s bugging her about ditching work and all but acting like incels texting like “awww but babe my dick hurts :(”, from the FIRST Clovis disaster ep where he’s childishly trying to screw up Padmé’s mission, to the Clovis arc in season 6

And this is where they just roll right in with their “oh so Anakin’s an overbearing, entitled douche” bit with the interaction he has with Pads and he’s trying to talk her out of taking the Clovis assignment and he says something along the lines of “as your husband, I demand you don’t do this”.

Hwat. The Fuck.

What kind of caveman-esque, 1800’s-ass man of the house whom my wife must obediently serve kinda entitled-ass BULLSHIT?!?!?!?

Like, I’m sorry, I really am, but that is just completely out of left field and not like Anakin at all. I mean to the point that when he’s an evil Sith Lord trying to talk her into taking over the galaxy with him, EVEN THEN he does not include “Padmé you must join me because I’m your husband and you do as I say” sort of domineering assholerly.

Anakin does not push Padmé around. He does not TRY to assert authority over her or try and force her to do shit. Not only because she doesn’t put up with that kinda shit for a second, but because Anakin respects Padmé; he will treat her with respect. He always has, and sometimes like in this arc it really doesn’t feel like he does.

Now of course Padmé’s response to the “I own you” declaration is “fuck you, asshole, I do what I want” and doubling down on her decision, and then decides to go even harder on the mission if only to spite her douche husband (and we’ll get to Padmé’s characterization in a bit) which is a very different kind of Anidala conversation we see in the show as opposed to the movies (also discussed later).

Now, the reason for Anakin’s overbearing douchery ties directly into an overarching problem in TCW— honestly, one of the very few issues I have with this show, but the problem is that it touches nearly the entire thing —and that is they almost completely reworked Anakin’s personality to be more hyper-masculine alpha male.

This is a topic I’ve discussed on my blog before, but the gist is that in the movies, Anakin was not the typical male heroic protagonist and DEFINITELY not what people expected from Future Darth Vader The Masked Brutish Male Power Fantasy. He was awkward, he was shy, he was soft spoken, he was clumsy around the girl he liked, he was very openly romantic, he liked frolicking in fields and candlelit dinners and snuggling. Two of the most important people in his life were soft, feminine women and he openly loved them very dearly and very gently— and he deferred to them when he felt it was right, as I’ve mentioned before. He CRIED when he was upset and was messy and emotional. And fanboys hated this with a burning passion. They couldn’t project their power fantasy onto this!!!! The Anakin critics were a HUGE part of the mob who crucified the prequels to the point of chasing both Anakin actors practically out of the movie industry in general.

The Clone Wars writers were obviously petrified of this happening again. So their solution, as has always been Star Wars’s solution to hateful fans being upset about an innocent character, is to completely rework them, hide or retcon all the undesirable qualities, and act like everything was all fixed. Now don’t get me wrong, there are aspects of TCW Anakin that I adore. As I’ve also mentioned before, they got his humor, his cleverness, his eagerness to do the right thing, to help people, his relationship with Obi Wan and Ahsoka and his men, they got that all perfectly. But the rest??? TCW’s solution to the criticism of Movie!Anakin was to turn him into an agressive, dominant, violent shadow of everything “soft” he was in the movie

Now, he speaks loudly and more deeply. Now, he’s cocky and overconfident and while yes he was arrogant in the movies, now it’s dialed up to like an 11. He never cries, never even THINKS to show a negative emotion that’s not Manly Rage And Aggression(TM). And then there’s the way he is around the women in his life. No more awkwardness or shyness, now he makes jokes about being a “ladies man” and does whatever the fuck flirting he does with Miraj Scintel even though the Anakin from the movies would have needed like every scrap of his self control just to look at her without insta-murdering her face. And then there’s how he is with Ahsoka and Padmé. He is muuuuch more of a loud brash dudebro around them who pushes his weight and is kind of controlling and their solution is just to have the both of them be Strong Women(TM) who Fight Back whenever he tries it too hard with them.

With Ahsoka, it’s not too bad because it’s a brand new dynamic and she’s a rather agressive firecracker personality herself when we first meet her, so the constant Snips n’ Skyguy snipefest works for them. For Padmé? It just means that in far too many episodes they’re in there’s a point where Anakin says something Eh and Padmé gets mildly irritated to actually annoyed with him for it and she’ll talk down to him and then there’s an argument between them because he’s bullheaded and she’s a Strong Woman. Why do I consider these out of character?

In the movies, despite the flaws, Anidala is a couple who actually tries to communicate. Anakin feels open to speak about his troubles to Padmé and her to him (for the most part, she definitely has a savior complex and a tendency to squash her own shit so she can help deal with both Anakin’s and the galaxy’s at large) when they’re worried or concerned about something and they want to talk it out, so they’ll talk it out!

The problem with Anidala isn’t that they don’t communicate, it’s that they try but also only do it by halves because they hate fighting. They’ll talk, Anakin will say something that Padmé might disagree with— the fascism discussion in the Naboo field in AOTC, the question of whether the Republic is just or not in TPM —and she’ll try and correct him if she feels he’ll listen, but if he doubles down, she’ll go “ok you know what, agree to disagree, let’s not fight” and she subtly changes the subject because she hates fighting with him. If Pads says something Ani doesn’t like— telling Obi Wan about them in ROTS, some emotional advice she tries to give in both movies —he’ll flat out shut down and be like “I don’t want to talk about this, let’s drop it” and then seek out cuddles or affection as a distraction.

And that brings us back to the Clovis arc. The scene where the “as your husband” line occurs. Anakin is trying to talk Padmé out of doing this not because he’s jealous. Maybe he was jealous the first time he met Clovis and saw Padmé being all cute n’ fond with her old flame, but this time it seems almost entirely because last time ended in catastrophe and he’s genuinely worried for Padmé and feels she’s not thinking wisely, that she’s putting herself in danger.

However, Anakin is deciding to voice these concerns in Possessive Dudebro Pushing because of the aforementioned misguided Vader Foreshadowing and Toxic Masculinity. Padmé? Is not even CONSIDERING what he has to say, is just breezing on through and shutting him down at every turn and generally acting like he’s a dumbass who doesn’t have a clue about anything.

Now, it is very in character for Padmé Amidala to be all “I’m right, you’re wrong, fuck you don’t get in my way”. HOWEVER, they aren’t framing this as solely Padmé having a goal and bulldozing her way through the situation. That’s not how they frame this.

They frame this as: Padmé is embarrassed that she misjudged the situation wrong the last time and embarrassed even further that Anakin had to step in and get her out of trouble— which he brings up —and probably remembers that he made fun of her while he did it—

(Timing out to say that THAT scene was also OOC; they once more wanted a Vader parallel what with Anakin’s silhouette when he opens her cell door and the way Padmé’s sleeping pose is identical to Leia’s in ANH. But Anakin basically steps in and gives her this condescending-ass “awww the little wife’s gotten in over her head like I SAID she would, good thing I’m here to rescue her!” bit that’s really just MEAN. It’s not like him and Obi Wan’s/Ahsoka’s teasing snark whenever they have to pull each out of trouble, he’s just kicking her while she’s already down. Really, Anakin’s reaction should have been a lot less humorous and a lot more pissy; she didn’t listen to him, didn’t trust him, and ended up in danger because of it. It’d be a surly and upset “I told you so”, not an amused one.)

—and now it seems much more like Padmé is solely taking this assignment to spite Anakin for being a dick and to pettily prove that she knows what she’s doing rather than any sense or urge to do the right thing. And....... childish pettiness????? Is not Padmé. And yet, she has the entire immature “don’t tell me what to DO, Anakin” attitude this whole arc that amounts to WAY more than just the normal response she would have to his overcontrolling dickishness

And once again, it’s because she, like everyone else in the episode, seems to think the problem Anakin has is that he’s jealous of Clovis. He’s not, not really. He’s insecure, yes, but he also knows Clovis is a bag of dicks as well, and trusts that Padmé knows she’s better than that. His problem isn’t fears he’ll lose Padmé, it is entirely that Padmé isn’t listening to his concerns, doesn’t trust him, is going into a situation they both know is unwise, and he is frustrated he’s not in a position where he can look out for her since he feels she’s not looking out for herself. And, he’s not entirely wrong. Padmé IS being reckless and kind of irrational solely to prove a point. He just goes about it pretty much entirely the wrong way, which is what you can really say is the cause and effect formula for any problem Anakin Skywalker encounters and subsequently makes worse.

And then there’s That Scene. The one where Clovis tries to force a kiss on Padmé and Anakin freaks and almost kills him for it. I’ll start off by quoting another Tumblr user on that very scene by saying in regards to Clovis: “that bitch deserved that”. The almost murder? Maybe not that far, but the initial hitting for disrespecting someone’s “no”? Yep, that was deserved.

My first criticism is that Anakin shouldn’t have even had time to attack him because why the fuck wasn’t Padmé instantly kneeing him in the balls?!?! Like Padmé is not prone to violence immediately, no, but she can will and does defend herself immediately when she needs to— her right punch knocked someone tf out once when she was pissed —and she already gave him a warning that his advances were not welcomed.

Now, I am absolutely not victim blaming. I am NOT saying it is the fault of a woman (I’d be a hypocrite if I did and that’s all I’ll say on THAT), or of anyone when faced with sexual harassment, if they don’t fight back for whatever reason, no matter how capable of doing so they may be. What I’m saying is that considering her previous behavior and personality and the fact that the show NEVER goes deep enough into explaining heavy stuff like why victims might freeze or NOT fight back when faced with harassment, I feel like showing her not attempting to defend herself at all is kinda strange.

Now, Padmé’s utter passiveness to the situation aside, we’re going back into toxic masculinity and misunderstood interpretations of how Anakin displays possession. While I’ll repeat that Clovis deserved consequences for the forced kiss, Anakin going full caveman defending his property jealous rage just. Doesn’t feel right to me. Again, I think Anakin would probs hit him and put the fear of living god into him, maybe even I’d buy the attempted murder if they framed it as Anakin doing it because he hates those who force their will on others and disrespect women, but the whole that’s MY wife and you’re touching her shite just once more feels alpha male aggressive ridiculousness. Like again, I understand Anakin is possessive of Padmé, but not like this. I’m sorry, but I just cannot see that, him fighting over her like she’s a scrap of meat.

Like, I completely think she’s in the right tho to put them on a break after he does it though. That’s well within her right.

But then onto the FINAL part where after Clovis goofs and fucks them all over and then dies, she forgives him and blames herself for everything and apologizes. And like, that part I do see as in canon and character for her and for Anakin. He doesn’t like to admit his mistakes, her mistakes weigh on her and when she fails to fix or save someone, she falls into depression and upset and self-blame.

But the fact that Clovis died because Anakin dropped him? Anakin Skywalker, who scaled an entire elevator shaft carrying two people over his back who combined probs weighed more than Padmé and Clovis. Anakin Skywalker, who’s used the Force to lift tons of debris, who’s used it to hold back explosions, Anakin Skywalker, MOST POWERFUL FORCE USER IN HISTORY WHO TENDS TO RELY ON BRUTE STRENGTH FOR MOST SHIT ANYWAY. That Anakin couldn’t pull two people over a ledge?!?!?!?!? This has always bothered me.

Like to be honest; I feel this entire episode could have been so fixable too. Like keep Anakin’s obsessive worry over Padmé making a mistake, keep the best part of the arc which is his talk with Obi Wan where Obi Wan tries to connect with him and explain that he’s not alone, all Jedi have emotional struggles and have loved, if perhaps he wants to TALK to someone about it, Obi Wan is here for him, like that? That’s okay!

Just ugh ffs, get rid of the nasty Anakin treating Padmé like a naughty dog who won’t obey him and the Padmé purposely acting unwisely to spite Anakin plot. Have the entire conflict be both of them being upset that the other doesn’t trust them, doesn’t believe in their advice, keep Padmé’s speech about how marriages NEED trust and compromise to survive, take all of Anakin’s aggression towards Padmé and transfer it to aggression towards Clovis, like make the conflict him menacing the guy if he hurts Padmé again just because he’s being overprotective and “if you won’t look out for yourself I will” and Anakin getting constantly checked for not being able to control his emotions, Padmé can tell him off for being overprotective instead of overaggressive and his possessiveness can instead show through him arguing that he needs to keep her safe at all costs. THAT can be the argument.

And if they want the Vader foreshadowing? Like real, in-character Vader foreshadowing??? Tbh, drop the Clovis beatdown, drop the machoness towards Padmé, and just have Anakin blatantly DROP the douchebag at the end of the episode instead of his hand slipping. Make him choose to ACTIVELY kill Clovis. Like THAT, Anakin taking the law into his own hands and deciding that he knows best and this guy is dangerous and has fucked up one too many times, there being an opportunity where there’s an chance to save Clovis when they’re alone without Pads, “be a Jedi, Padmé wouldn’t want this, do the right thing” Clovis might say, and we can see Anakin’s face considering, and then he just “Long Live The King”s him and lets him fall and die, THAT is an in-character Vader foreshadowing.

Then at the end of the episode, we can have Anakin lie to her, say Clovis slipped, say it was too late, and Padmé can believe him, thank him for trying. Then there’s the same thing where Padmé apologizes, and we can have a callback to the convo about trust and she adds that she’s sorry that she didn’t trust him, and when she says that, we zoom in on Anakin’s guilty face.

There. That’s how I’d fix these episodes

And THERE, I think I’ve complained about everything, I am SO sorry for the gigantic ass post and response, I’ll add a read more once I’m on my laptop and not on the beach on mobile.

But yeah anon, I hope that satisfies your question xD

Once again, I welcome discussion if y’all either agree with me or if you have any differing opinions, I know my takes are far from hot for several people and I’m curious to see what others think!

[ilonga]

rise of skywalker and sequels salt time, y’all

things I’m salty about in the rise of skywalker and the star wars sequels, in no particular order:

- Finn was sidelined 

- FINN WAS SIDELINED

- he was such an interesting character with so much potential (a stormtrooper who deserted!! pretty sure that was the first time we’d ever seen that!!), and it was all ignored and he was turned into background noise for what?? kylo ren??

- seriously! after TFA, the movies should have explored his backstroy! we should have seen his stormtrooper past affect him!! maybe a stormtrooper revolution!! he should have had a CHARACTER ARC!

- also his force-sensitivity being turned into a joke and comic relief was frankly insulting

- they could have done so many things with that side of the character (even though it was kind of out of nowhere)! parallels between finn and rey, finn questioning his identity, the whole a former stormptrooper being force sensitive thing should have been explored!

- Poe was sidelined

- Poe was a spice runner for no reason?? 1) isn’t that a rude stereotype, and 2) Poe is not Han Solo 2.0!! he was his own, different character!

- Finn/Poe didn’t happen

- gonna be salty about that forever, though I guess I saw it coming :( (it’s disney, what did I expect?)

- but they gave Poe a straight love interest that we’d never heard of before this movie and who he had like two lines of dialogue with just to rub it in?? like, really?

- they completely forgot Rose existed

- like, listen, I wasn’t the biggest fan of the finnrose kiss either, but you can’t just pretend it didn’t happen and hope everyone forgets about it

- and sure, rose’s introduction and character in TLJ was a bit clumsy

- BUT YOU CAN’T JUST IGNORE HER AND PRETEND SHE DIDN’T HAPPEN

- she had a lot of potential as a character, and interesting backstory, a practical pragmatic personality, and a lot of ways she could play off the other characters

- TROS could have been where we saw Rose grow as a character and really shine

- instead, she was forgotten

- ugh

- REY PALPATINE WAS THE DUMBEST FRICKING THING OKAY--

- like, first of all, palpatine coming back for some reason somehow was the most ridiculous direction this movie could have gone and didn’t work, at all

- their enemy for the first TWO MOVIES was the First Order and Kylo Ren

- they had a huge moment in TLJ where the Resistance is steadily being destroyed and they won’t last long against the First Order

- now they’re supposed to take on the First Order and a now-supposedly-immortal emperor palpatine who has a collection of unmanned star destroyers he can control for some reason??

- both of them at once? the resistance is barely alive as is, now you’re adding an OP extra army + sith lord to the mix?

- I mean, this is ridiculous. Palpatine’s dead. Anakin’s big sacrifice in return of the jedi was KILLING palpatine. now he’s back, and the resistance somehow realises he’s back and decides he’s enemy #1 now?

- how did the resistance find out a dead sith lord came back to life on a remote planet anyways?

- and WHAT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE FIRST ORDER? AND KYLO REN?

- Kylo Ren, who they finally decided was going to be the main villain in TLJ (even with that stupid “rey trying to redeem the mass murderer” plot going on in the background), and now they don’t have the guts to commit to making him evil (which he was for the LAST TWO MOVIES AND THE MAJORITY OF TROS)

- so, since they weren’t committed enough to make Kylo a villain like he actually was and didn’t have the groundwork for a redemption, they just decided to ignore the fact that he was evil and hope it would go away

- like, are we going to forget that he literally MURDERED HIS DAD, HAN SOLO

- or that he and his first order destroyed a whole SYSTEM OF PLANETS? filled with billions of innocent people?

- he personally tortured Poe, he personally tortured Rey, and he was complicit in a system that kidnapped Finn, took him from his family, and brainwashed him

- not to mention that one of the opening scenes of TROS was him literally massacring people

- but no!! it’s all fine now, bc he looked at his dad’s ghost a little sadly and got a new lightsaber color

- like, no. he isn’t “redeemed” because he’s decided he has the hots for rey. heck, that makes it even worse. he’s been trying to manipulate her for all three movies, he’s gaslighted her, he’s threatened her, he’s hurt the people she cares about. NONE OF THAT IS OKAY. and it’s even less okay that all of his evil deeds can be written off because rey’s “”love”” for him “healed” him or whatever the fuck they want us to think

- and why would they have Rey HEAL him? after SHE stabbed him? in what universe does that make sense?? even if rey didn’t defeat him fairly bc he was distracted or whatever, this is still the supreme leader of the army rey and the rebels are trying to defeat. like, rey, are you a part of the resistance or not? it doesn’t matter if he was “nicer” to you than the rest of the rebels. He’s still your ENEMY. Your “”empathy”” here helps no one, least of all yourself. Kylo Ren dead would have been a massive victory for the resistance--maybe they’d even have had a chance against the first order then! you know, the first order? the enemy you were fighting for the last two movies? 

- is this the message you want to be sending to young girls in the audience? that it’s ok if their partner hurts them, hurts other people, is a bad person in general, because their love can “”heal”” him? and that eventually, he’ll turn good if you just try hard enough?

- this is how people wind up in abusive relationships!! that shit is NOT okay

- and the kiss is ridiculous for the same reasons. you don’t owe kylo ren anything, rey. Not in the least for “rescuing” from a situation that was pretty much created bc of him. He’s the one who teamed up with palpatine at the beginning of the movie, remember?

- sometimes I feel like this movie forgot that kylo ren is, you know, a bad person, which the other two movies spent their entire runtime showing us

- like darth vader’s sacrifice was one thing. first of all, it was for his son, his child, and secondly, vader was very much under the power of the emperor and debatably had the mindset of a slave

- kylo ren, on the other hand, was completely under his own power. HE was making the choices, and calling the shots. HE murdered Snoke. And he died for a girl he was manipulating and gaslighting constantly and that he didn’t have much of a connection to other than “the force”

- like, darth vader’s “”redemption”” definitely wasn’t perfect either. you can argue that him killing the emperor and sacrificing him self to save his son didn’t negate any of his actions or him being a bad person. but it was definitely more meaningful and better handled.

- and let’s talk about rey

- I will forever be bitter that rey didn’t get a meaningful character arc and character growth

- which is so disappointing because she was SUCH an interesting (& mysterious) character with so much potential in TFA

- I feel like, in making her palpatine, which was pretty out of nowhere and contrary to the last jedi, they were so busy trying to fit her heritage into the movie in a way that sort of made sense that they forgot to make the movie about her growing as a character and person

- couldn’t they at least have given her her own lightsaber?

- I mean, her being a palpatine is already ridiculous because since when does palpatine have a son? (clone, whatever) And since when did that son have some sort of epic struggle where he refuses to join palpatine and runs away? and when did that son find someone he fell in love with, and have a daughter? and then subsequently abandon her, a seven-ish year old, on a dangerous desert planet? (I mean, wasn’t palpatine dead by then anyways?)

- it just doesn’t fit with the already established star wars universe. we already know palpatine’s story (well, not the beginning of it, but enough). It was movies 1-6, clone wars, and rebels. if he had had a son that had a luke-esque struggle against the darkside, it would have shown up.

- it just doesn’t fit

- but anyways, back to rey

- I guess they were trying to give her some luke-style struggle where she struggles with her heritage and a pull to the darkside that she has to ultimately triumph over? but it doesn’t work

- one, because she never HAS any struggle with the dark side. shooting lightning out of your fingers out of nowhere doesn’t count (and wasn’t that a ridiculous scene. it was more comical than anything else, which is definitely not what they were going for)

- a struggle with the darkside is about being tempted to give into anger, fear, and hatred, and struggling not to do the wrong things and turn evil. In luke’s story, we SAW that. we also saw luke’s horror and eventual acceptance of his heritage, which we never really saw with rey. It was just like, “okay, guess I’m a palpatine?” and it wasn’t nearly as impactful bc palpatine had been dead for the past thirty-ish years. as a contrast, vader was a living and very present villain who the heroes had to contend with, and it was personal for most of them.

- so I guess they tried to make that her character arc, but it didn’t work. so we were left with a stale character who didn’t really have any meaningful victories or losses.

- is she really a “”mary sue”” like everyone’s claiming if they never really made the story about her?

- I think that was the biggest thing that was so unsatisfying about the sequels

- she was hyped up to be the first real mainstream female jedi protagonist (obviously clone wars got there first, but movies are definitely more mainstream than a show, sorry cw :( ), but she never really got a journey, struggles, or real triumphs. which is such a shame because she was this really empowering character in TFA that I was so excited to see more! but her trilogy-wide character arc just wasn’t satsifying

- I wanted to see her really struggle, and rise above her struggles! I wanted her to have meaningful triumphs!

- also I don’t think she ever got injured either, which is definitely a deviation from the star wars trilogy pattern. that’s kinda strange. (luke lost his hand & got electrocuted, han got frozen in carbonite, leia got tortured & shot, anakin got, well, a LOT of injuries, but even before becoming darth vader w/ the foregone conclusion, he had his arm cut off, padme was pretty heavily injured on genosis, and obi-wan was injured in the fight against dooku)

- yup

- also the sith wayfinder was kinda dumb, and I never felt like there were real stakes in TROS

- and let’s address the rey skywalker thing: ok, fine, I get what they were trying to say, kind of

- and I’m not foaming at the mouth about it like some people are. I’m fairly indifferent

- but it would have been a lot more meaningful if rey had had like, a really close, deep relationship with Leia and Luke, so she could say that she and they considered her a skywalker

- but she didn’t have that sort of relationship with them, not really. Sure, she and leia were friends on-screen, but that was it. and luke didn’t really seem to like her all that much. 

- so like, “meh”

- especially since Leia’s technically a Solo or an Organa, so that line working really relied on her relationship with Luke, which wasn’t strong enough

- yea, so that’s that

- the “jedi voices” scene was pretty cool though (AAAAH AHSOKA!! AND ANAKIN!! AND ALL THE OTHER JEDI!!), and I liked her yellow lightsaber (although she could have built her own lightsaber at the BEGINNING OF THE MOVIE, instead of carrying luke’s the whole time)

there are things I like about the sequels, mind you. a lot of things!! but there’s a lot I was disappointed in too.

congrats if you got this far, that was a LOT of salt

[swtorpadawan]

Promises

Author’s Notes: The following obviously applies to my main Jedi Knight OC, Corellan Halcyon, but I feel it could apply to a great many JKs, so i’ve used gender-neutral pronouns where possible. Graphics courtesy of Wookiepedia, since i’m away from my screen captures at the moment.  The Sith Lord known as Lord Scourge wants Revenge against Vitiate, the Sith Emperor. He wants revenge for what the ancient Sith Lord did to him three hundred years ago, granting him immortality but taking from him everything that made life worth living. He wants revenge for being forced to serve as his personal executioner for all of that time. It is true that Scourge may have started down this long and arduous path out of a sort of enlightened self-interest. Vitiate, Scourge knows full-well, is a threat to the entire galaxy. He has known that from the moment he met him in person so many years ago. The Emperor is a threat to everyone who has ever lived and to everyone who ever will live. But his anger and rage at his ‘Master’ have only deepened over the centuries. Scourge is incredibly fortunate that he burns cold, one of the side-effects that he suffers as the result of Vitiate’s ritual. Were it otherwise, the Emperor would surely have sensed the profound danger that his Wrath represented, and the unrepentant traitor has no illusions as to how that confrontation would end. After the Dromund Kaas operation, Scourge claims to stay with the Defender’s crew simply to be certain that the Emperor has left them no further surprises.   But somewhere deep down, Scourge knows that this isn’t the end of it. Something of the Emperor has survived. But he also knows the Jedi Knight will be there to see the prophecy through no matter what it takes. The Knight’s resolve is the equal of Revan’s, of the Exile’s and of Scourge’s himself. Perhaps even greater.  And Scourge will therefore aid the Jedi however he can. Lord Scourge stays with the Jedi Knight because they promise him Revenge.

Fidelitin Rusk has been fighting one battle or another for his entire adult life. He is considered ruthless and sometimes even reckless by his fellow Republic soldiers, and sometimes even by his crewmates. Rusk – the third-oldest member of the crew but perhaps the oldest in practical life experience – accepts these assessments without rebuke or defense; he is what he is. His entire mindset was constructed for battles and wars that had to be won regardless of the costs. Rusk has fought so hard and for so long that there are some days when even he starts to forget why he does what he does. Indeed, there are times when Rusk disapproves of the Knight’s choices, believing that they risk too much for others and that they are far too willing to however briefly put aside the greater mission to save even a single life all while the entire galaxy stands at risk.

But deep down, the lost soldier’s only true purpose has only ever been to defend those who cannot defend themselves. He was born and raised by a colony of pacifists; that didn’t stop the Empire from annihilating his people. When he looks at the Jedi Knight – so selfless and so brave, so willing to put themselves on the line for those who need them, he is reminded of the justness of that cause. And as he wins battle after battle and that cause is served, than perhaps everything that Rusk has done has been worth it.  

Sergeant Fideltin Rusk stays with the Jedi Knight because they promise him Victory.

Contrary to popular belief, Doctor Archiban Kimble knows perfectly how the rest of the galaxy, and even his closest allies aboard the Defender, view him. The man who calls himself Doc is seen as an arrogant, misogynistic, self-aggrandizing, fame-seeking, womanizing nerf-herder; a man who has left a seemingly endless line of women high and dry over the years, from Prudy and on down the list. Honestly? Doc wouldn’t have it any other way. Letting people believe that he cares so little about his personal relationships gives him a sort of shield against the things in the universe that he doesn’t want to deal with, all while still allowing him to continue to enjoy the things that keep him going.

But a man who worked his through medical school on his own merits and who has consistently chosen to serve as a combat medic on some of the most dangerous planets in the galaxy doesn’t do so just for fame, fortune and women. He could have had all that and lived in style while conducting research projects for a major pharmaceutical company back on Coruscant. No, once upon a time there was a young Archiban who set upon this path, and who did so for far nobler reasons then Doc would ever admit to anyone. Doc doesn’t know how, but for some reason, he knows that when the Jedi Knight looks at him, they see something beyond the broken healer who has put up a shell around themselves. The Knight then offers the medic an opportunity for a more meaningful existence than he could have ever dreamed of.  

Doc stays with the Jedi Knight because they promise to always Help others.

Some days, Kira Carsen feels like she’s spent her entire life just trying to be true to who she is in a galaxy that seems determined to force her to become something else. She was raised on Korriban by some of the most sadistic and fanatical Sith in the galaxy, the Children of the Emperor. Every time she sees one of her ‘siblings’ returning to the dormitories with missing pieces of their memory, she cringes and pulls up her blanket around herself. And when Kira returns one night and realizes she can’t remember what happened to her, she knows that soon, there will be nothing left of her identity, either. The survival rate of acolytes who flee the Korriban academy cannot be higher than two percent. Most flee into the wilderness and, when they aren’t immediately hunted down and killed, become ‘broken’, running around in gangs, often going mad. But ten-year old Kira smuggles herself out on an outgoing cargo ship, and a week later she’s on Nar Shaddaa. She sees the suffering of people, there. Those who are unable or unwilling to kick something up to the Hutts quickly find themselves sent down. The slums where refugees congregate are almost as cruel and unforgiving as Korriban. Life is hard, but here, Kira discovers something about herself. Inexplicably, she actually cares about other people; especially the ones who take her in, and who are too weak to fend for themselves against the predators among them. Then Kira meets Bela Kiwiiks and joins the Jedi Order. Kira is unbelievably grateful to Master Kiwiiks. The Togrutta got her off Nar Shaddaa, gave her a home and a place in the galaxy, and has given her a place in the galaxy and the chance to do some good. Master Kiwiiks is like the mother that she never had. Kiwiiks is gently but firmly trying to teach Kira to be the best Jedi she can be.      

But as proud as she is to be a Jedi, Kira Carsen is trying to be the best version of herself.

When she meets the Jedi Knight, everything changes very quickly. Somehow, the Knight trusts Kira against the Black Sun at the spaceport on Coruscant, and then later still when they’re hunting down Tarnis. When Master Satele instructs the Knight to take Kira in as a Padawan, Kira is elated. She follows the Knight’s lead, but she feels more like a partner than their apprentice. The Knight talks with her instead of at her, and they learn a great deal about themselves and the galaxy from each other. When Kira’s past is revealed, the Knight supports her unquestioningly; first against Valis, then against Master Jaric Kaedan and finally against the Emperor himself on Darth Angral’s dreadnaught. When Kira finally purges the Emperor from her mind, she feels the Knight reaching out to her, aiding her the entire time.

(All this comes before that night under the stars on Tython, when Kira finally jumps the Knight and they become far more than partners.)

Kira is still herself, learning and growing at her own pace. There are times she questions the Knight’s choices. She groans when they take in Doc and worries a great deal when they let Scourge join. But through it all, the Knight never asks Kira to compromise herself; they never tell her how she should feel or think about anything. The Knight simply asks Kira to trust them. And she does. The doubting Jedi questions many things; but they never question the Knight, because the Knight has never questioned her.

Kira Carsen stays with the Jedi Knight because they promise to let her be Herself , and because they let her become the best version of Herself she can.

T7-O1 – Teeseven to his friends – has served the Jedi Order for decades, and quite frankly, they would be hard pressed to find anyone who has done so with greater devotion. The astromech droid is more than content to carry messages and conduct reconnaissance for the Jedi as they continue to adjust to their home on Tython.

But for the mechanical servant, the most satisfying period of his existence was during the time he served as a companion to Jedi Master Ven Zallow, one of the greatest heroes of the Galactic Republic during the last galactic war. Zallow was a true champion of the ideals of both the Jedi and the Republic, serving with wisdom and strength. The little droid misses those days, fiercely. He knows the work he does for the Order is important, but nothing was more fulfilling than knowing ones actions have helped right a wrong or saved a life.  

After ten years of waiting, Teeseven is finally partnered with another hero. This one is even kinder and more powerful than Ven Zallow; they seem to do nothing but sacrifice for others. In the Jedi Knight, Teeseven has found a champion who can save the entire galaxy. Privately, the little droid does worry. He worries that the cruelties of this galaxy will weigh on the Knight, that they will become bitter with loss, and will eventually fall short of their ideals as so many Jedi have before.  But Teeseven will be there for the Knight, no matter what. They will follow the Knight into the darkest places in the galaxy, as they blaze a light. They will be the Knight’s friend, and show the Jedi the way. In return, the Knight will help Teeseven be what the droid always wanted to be.

T7-O1 stays with the Jedi Knight because they promise him that they will always be Heroes.

[jedi-order-apologist]

Something I noticed about Vader; something that sets him apart from most other Sith is that he's driven, not by passion, hate or greed, but by apathy. When he screams after being put in the suit, he's realizing that every justification he had for his crimes has come for naught. He did all these things to save the ones he loved, but now he's the whipping boy to a fascistic dictatorship and has nothing to show for it. Vader serves the Empire because he has nothing else to live for...until Luke.

I think Vader does carry a lot of hate, actually - mostly for himself.

But I also don’t really see that as the driving force for the dark side or Sith. The Sith are defined mostly by Despotism Justifies the Means, everything else - that call to draw on their passions, their anger, their hate - is just in service of that desire for power. I guess you could call that greed, of a sort, as their primary drive, but specifically it’s greed for power.

And the dark side - well, it encompasses a lot of things, but specifically falling to the dark side is something I see rooted in defeatism, and that matches Vader very well. It’s a defeatist mindset that the fallen are trapped in - they look at their options, see only horrible ones, and give up, why bother striving to make the best ones anymore? What difference does it make if he serves the Empire or leaves it? His life is miserable anyway, he’s destroyed everything he’s cared about. Staying is easier, anyway. And it had to have been his destiny, anyway - there was no avoiding it, he can’t go back on it now...all of this is how he rationalizes it to himself.

Where the power-lust comes in is that power promises an easy way out. Rather than the difficult work of committing to making better choices, the dark side promises power as the quick solution - all you need is just enough power and you’ll set everything right again, you’ll be strong enough not to be miserable, you’ll be able to achieve all your goals. Except that it’s never enough, you can never have enough power, and it’s a cycle that digs you deeper and deeper, as even the goals you fell for fade beneath the primary goal of getting that power - soon, it’s about power for power’s sake, not power for your goals. And you have to keep hold of that power that you do have, you have to keep getting more, because otherwise you’ll lose all that you gained, and all the terrible choices you made and justified to yourself under ‘the ends justify the means’ will have been for nothing.

So Vader’s behavior is pretty consistent with this framework, I think. Luke is what gets him to break out of that mindset, not just because Vader has something worth living (and dying) for again, but also because Luke shows him that the cycle can be broken, that they can step back and refuse to keep going with a bad choice even when it doesn’t undo that bad choice. It finally lets Vader see through the lie of defeatism and sunk cost to make a better choice once again.

[legobiwan]

So i was just daydreaming of SW and fics & i was imagining two characters on opposites sides of light and dark both trying to turn each other bc they think they are right(don’t they all?). But i feel like sidious and maul and plenty of sith knew that they weren’t necessarily the ‘good’ guys, no matter their reason for why they ended up on the dark side. I think sidious knew he wasn’t a good person & was well aware of the ‘bad’ nature of the darkside and how it can corrupt a person entirely 1/

I think dooku was as well even though he thought he was doing the right thing & making change. Even Anakin knew in his own twisted mindset that despite why he turned, he wasn’t on the side of the good guys no matter their reason for why they ended up on the dark side.I think sidious knew he wasn’t a good person&was well aware of the ‘bad’ nature of the darkside and how it can corrupt a person entirely. I think dooku was as well even though he thought he was doing the right thing&making change.2/

But how would you convince someone that turned bc they thought they could keep it controlled. Revan himself turned thinking he could prevent the darkside from corrupting him entirely&we see how that turned out. What about people who just genuinely think that they are more free (they aren’t) on the darkside and just want to BE on the darkside and think that it’s not inherently bad. Bc some sith fics make it sound not that bad but we know that it actually really is very bad by nature ¾

I guess my question is how does someone who thinks they can have everything they want and not loose themselves, who is ruled by the dark side to the point of sith eyes, become convinced that going that far isn’t actually the right path to be on? 4/4 Sorry this is so long

Wow, anon, this is…a complicated question. (And off-topic, but daydreaming about SW fics totally got me through some horrible jobs a few years ago. Star Wars daydreaming ftw.)

For me, it comes down to what your definition of “light” (read, good) is. And I think either side, light or dark, taken too far to one extreme ends up wrapping back to the other, a kind of ouroboros. Too much light, as we saw with the Jedi, can lead to dark consequences. Too much dark, in a weird way, will lead to revolt, to a balancing. 

It’s thermodynamics, taken to a philosophical extent, where your variables seek equilibrium but there is only so much energy to share between them, as it cannot be created nor destroyed. 

But let’s extricate ourselves from such tangled webs, shall we, and take this analysis character by character. 

Sidious: Sidious is an unrepentant, manipulative bastard. I mean, the absolute worst, the whole shebang. I doubt there would be anyone who would have had the ability to pull him into the “Light,” just the ability to thwart his plans. Evil genius, psychopath, bereft of empathy, etc. Let’s just say Rey’s existence, at least from the first generation, was likely not an act of love. 

Dooku: Oh Dooku. My favorite bad guy is a lot more complicated. His motivations were idealistic and to some degree, justified. The Republic and the Jedi were failing certain underrepresented systems, the Republic bloated on corruption and the Jedi more and more backing themselves into a protective corner until they had no room left to move. His execution of the whole thing…well, that’s where his hubris (and nihilism) led him astray. And I still contend we see this darkening of Dooku between AotC and RotS, especially in TCW. The dark side won in Dooku, pulled him under its tide so perhaps by the time of RotS he just wasn’t able to see - or admit - Sidious’s plans for him. 

Now, would Dooku have been redeemed? Yes, but only under circumstances and I would say he would less be redeemed than returned to grey status. 

But what would possibly convince our resident iconoclast to renounce some of his ways? 

Or more, who?

Qui-gon or Obi-wan. Or both. Lineage is so important to Dooku, a man who felt the loss of his family, who felt he was alone in the universe, who, unlike Anakin, went out of his way to avoid close connections, to relieve everything of his past except his title and all the expectations that came with it. I mean, imagine that. You are raised a Jedi, taught to believe attachment is, if not bad, at least problematic. And then you leave that religious order to return to your homeworld where you inherit a title and presumably a million problems and identities and histories that come with said title. And Dooku knows none of these people but to rule them, but he does know the ones he has raised and the ones who they raised. Which leads me to believe that an alive Qui-gon (who, let’s face it, wouldn’t have been 100% light side) and/or a more convinced Obi-wan (who should have listened to Dooku on Geonosis but that is a whole other discussion because that was a Hail Mary by Dooku and the more I think about it, the more I believe it was a ballsy-as-ass move on his part) might have convinced him to realign himself.

Anakin: Ohhhh, Anakin. Anakin, who fell because he felt he had to, in order to save everyone he loved. Anakin, who was burdened with false expectation after a traumatic childhood. Anakin, who made so many bad choices and it’s both his fault and not his fault, a tragic combination of circumstance and proclivity. The thing is, we know Anakin is torn between the light and the dark, even after he turns. Anakin as Vader is kind of like the person who says, “Oh I ate 2 cookies, might as well eat the whole bag because nothing matters.” (Side note, I am a total supporter of eating the whole bag of cookies if that is the heart’s truest desire. Speaking as someone who has downed many bags of cookies in their lifetime.) Anyway, it’s the mindset that’s the problem. And Anakin does redeem himself in the end, when he finds something/someone to fight for and fight against and isn’t that so him, always fighting against something?

Look, dark side characterizations are fun. But there’s always something else behind it, and it is a big deal to abandon your principles, your ideals, your health, your everything to this festering, opaque disease that lives in your deepest gut and at times takes the controls, much to your horror (except if you are Sidious, in which case, the horrible darkness is always at the controls and that is by design). I, personally, like to explore the darker sides of these characters but also the why - what made them fall, why are they hurting, and what is the fallout of their actions?

Yes, it’s easy to hate, to fear - I mean, we see this in the real world on an everyday basis. What’s less easy is to be alone, and I mean truly alone. And I think minus extreme examples like Sidious (who, let’s admit, created clones to cheat death and kept a vast amount of servants so even he was not ever truly alone). If I might get a little existential for a moment, what I like about Jedi philosophy (and in all seriousness, I had a major breakdown about this a few years back and Jedi philosophy, weirdly enough, was a large part in saving my sanity) is that we are never alone, that we are all part of the Force, of life, of the breath and heartbeat of the universe no matter what corporeal form we take or not. The Sith see themselves as alone, but as we can observe, so many of them are motivated by connection, could possibly be spurred to change by connection in the correct circumstances. 

And by this, I don’t mean the Jedi were 100% correct. I feel like the version of the Jedi we got by TCW had been pushed to some extremes due to the Ruusan Reformation (gdi, that had better get recanonized, asap, because it is a pivotal moment and a HUGE explanation of why the Jedi ended up as they were by the time the Prequels rolled around and it makes So Much Sense), the emergence of Dooku, the war, etc.) There is something to be said about the Grey Jedi, not that they necessarily embraced light and dark - but perhaps so - but that they did not fall to one extreme or the other. And this is where I feel Qui-gon succeeded over many other of his peers, despite his myriad of other personality flaws. Possibly this was why he was able to access the Whills and pass on what he had learned, to the point of where we see Yoda in TLJ, who is a lot more philosophical about everything than he had been in life. 

So to answer your question - there is no making someone turn back to the light, as much as there is any way of forcing a sentient being to do anything. Once can only pave the way and forge relationships, and the rest is up to that person. I think a lot of our Sith friends knew they were going down a dark path but also saw no alternative and felt a need to vindicate themselves, to strike out in anger against their circumstances. I get it, I think we all have that urge sometimes. And I suppose the answer might come in having something to fight for as opposed to fight against, as ridiculous as that sounds. 

But then again, I am but a simple lego floating around the internet. :)

[killikhive]

it’s oc introduction time babey

about time, too. here’s we go time for some blurbs on all my main swtor kids, in order of when I made them. (I still haven’t finished all the class stories yet tho…working on it!) 

All of them are on the Star Forge server, feel free to add them as friends if you want to play with me or something! 

And also feel free to ask questions about them anytime!

————-

Taket

(Sith Inquisitor: finished class story)

Taket has gotten this far pretty much entirely by spite alone, but she’s started to appreciate that anger isn’t the only emotion that can fuel the Force (and to continue relying just on anger isn’t sustainable either). Hates to be looked down on, and in turn won’t treat others as below her just because she made it onto the Dark Council. (That was kind of incidental anyway.)

————-

Hade Thava

(Jedi Knight: finished class story)

Born in the Empire, Hade nearly died as a child on Korriban, escaping with the help of another failed acolyte into the ruins until they could make it off-planet. Not long after, she was picked up by the Jedi- which maybe wasn’t the best thing, actually. A lot of the demonization of the Sith and the Empire in the Jedi teachings Hade internalized until it became a pervasive sense of guilt. As an adult, Hade’s developed quite a martyr complex, driven by an almost compulsive need to “make up for” her past and any harm she may have caused. She overestimates what she can handle and puts herself on the line again and again without much hesitation or thought for her own well-being. She hardly recognizes the unhealthiness of it because hey, this is what a Jedi’s supposed to do, right? (Going to decide where her character arc goes with the expansions as I play them, but I’d like for her to be able to grow past this, and to realize the harm that the Jedi mindset has done to her. I want her to be able to keep pursuing what she cares about, but to realize it’s more nuanced, and that her self-sacrificing is really just self-destructive.)

————-

Kicth

(Bounty Hunter: finished class story)

Kicth grew up on the streets of Coruscant, and has gotten used to fighting dirty to survive. She’s a lot like a feral cat (has gotten into fights over scraps of food, Will Bite You). There’s a Cards Against Humanity card that’s “A little sewer girl strangling a pigeon” and that’s Kicth. She’s tiny and desperate and always on alert, and is also very determined to Stick It To The Man. Over the course of her class story she’s gone from “Trust No One” to “Don’t You Dare Hurt My Friends Or I Will Kill You,” and I for one am proud of her. She’s still not sold on the whole Mandalorian idea of honor though.

————-

Sabik Rykal

(Republic Trooper: finished chapter 1 of class story)

Sabik is jaded and grouchy and kind of just getting by, though stuff he’s experienced during his time as a soldier has messed him up big time. This isn’t where he wanted to be in life and but he doesn’t really see another option for himself- he feels stuck. But all his service to the Republic has gotten him is trust issues, unresolved trauma, and a drinking problem. He’s bitter about it but he’s spent long enough there that he doesn’t feel like he has much to go back to, anyway. (He once wanted to be an actor, and to make music with his friends- he was in a band once!- but he’s lost passion for it, resigned himself to the belief that it would never happen.)

————-

Antaeres Skor

(Jedi Consular: not far in story yet)

Now we’re getting into the territory of characters I haven’t really played (and consequently developed) much yet. Antaeres is…terrible. Definitely not a nice person. What she cares about, first and foremost, is power. Or maybe self-preservation would be more accurate- it’s just that the constant pursuit of power is what she sees as necessary to attain that. Her view of the world is very zero-sum, and she kind of assumes that everyone else thinks the same way, too. And she’s really into Force secrets. She doesn’t even have much issue with the Sith- probably would have no qualms joining them if it seemed like a better position to be in. For now though, she’s pretty comfortable being a really awful Jedi.  (P.S. her name in-game is Antæres Skor, with the æ…not easy to type. I’m sorry. )

————-

Kvel’ata

(Sith Warrior: not far in story yet)

Kvel’ata is a former underground arena fighter. (The latter half of their name comes from their alias in fighting circles: The Tuk’ata.) They originally didn’t even seem to be Force sensitive at all, and had already pretty much accepted that. They found their passion in fighting- and then, found they were at least a little bit Force-sensitive after all. In the thrill of the ring they found themself instinctively using the Force to enhance their strength and fighting ability. While they still lack the full suite of Force abilities that a Sith usually has, they make up for it. They’re generally laid-back, even friendly, but that friendliness shouldn’t be mistaken for weakness. They don’t need anger or malice to be a good fighter- they’re willing to test themself in combat against anyone they meet, and they’ll probably genuinely enjoy it too.

————-

Kavis Alzirr

(Smuggler: barely started)

At first glance, Kavis might seem naive, but his stubborn optimism has been tested plenty. He…is kind of a dumbass, but he’s full of love. He’s trying to have a good time and help other people have a good time too.

————-

Yvix

(Imperial Agent: barely started)

Yvix is a former Chiss ambassador who may or may not have been manipulated and brainwashed to be an agent for the Empire. Very good at being persuasive. He’s kinda high-strung and kinda falling apart, simultaneously trying and not trying to poke at the gaping holes in his memory. Tries to make sense of it but when he tries to directly think about it his mind is just [static noises]. 

[the-far-bright-center]

Anakin Skywalker, a tragic hero

a compilation by @the-far-bright-center

Recently, I was asked to write about ‘Anakin as a tragic hero’, and rather than attempting to tackle such a broad topic from scratch, I decided to compile a masterpost of excerpts from (and links to) my previous posts on the subject.  

In my personal view, ‘Star Wars’ (as in, the Skywalker saga) is, at its heart, Anakin’s story, and as such, his tragic fall and ultimate redemption forms one of the main, underlying themes of most of my SW analysis in general. And so, the selections below include everything from in-depth character analysis, to overviews of Anakin’s role in the saga as a whole, to explorations of themes of slavery vs. freedom, death vs. immortality, personal attachments, fear of loss, and perhaps most importantly, unconditional love.

***Please note: the majority of the following excerpts are from posts written in defense of ‘the Skywalker saga’—aka, Lucas’ six films that tell the story of Anakin’s rise, fall, and redemption. And as such, any and all mentions of the so-called ‘sequels’ in the posts linked below are likely to be of a critical nature (since I wholeheartedly reject them as valid continuations of the main saga). Having said my piece on that subject, however, these days I prefer to ignore the existence of those films entirely (so, please do NOT ask me about the sequels or mention them in the notes!) and focus instead on upholding the meaning of the Prequels and Original Trilogy as one complete, mythic story. (Some of these excerpts may also include references to the Lucas-era TCW series, which functions in large part as a meta-commentary on Anakin’s story in the context of the saga as a whole.)

◇ from ‘The Chosen One, the Hero’s Journey, and Breaking the Cycle of Enslavement in Star Wars’:

(or, why the theme of slavery/enslavement in Anakin’s story is so important to our understanding of Anakin’s character and to the overall message of Lucas’ saga):

excerpt 1:

“ There is something incredibly unique about Anakin Skywalker as a character: this fascinating blend of hero, victim, and villain, and how the interplay of fate, destiny, character flaws, divided loyalties, tragic decisions, and the machinations of others leads to such great pain, loss, and evil…for himself, and for an entire galaxy. How he, as Vader, becomes both physically and mentally enslaved, suspended in an almost carbonite-like stasis and cyclical mindset for decades, until his final act of free will, spurred on by his latent, powerful love for his son, sets him—and them all—free. ”

excerpt 2:

“ There is a reason why George Lucas devoted three whole films (AND a good portion of two animated tv series) to the story of Anakin Skywalker. He obviously felt that Anakin’s motivations, his relationships, his strengths and weakness, his successes and failures, his positive traits and negative traits, his childhood, and even his later socio-political milieu and military context—basically everything about him—were important enough for an entire prequel trilogy (and supporting on-screen material) to cover in-depth.

For all the supposed faults of the Prequels, the story presented therein—the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker, and, along with him, the apocalyptic destruction of the Republic and the entire Jedi Order—is undeniably well-thought out….and extremely compelling.

And yet, this story is compelling not simply because it is’ tragic’, but because it is tragic in a very specific way.

Here is someone who starts out his life as a slave, a young boy simply wishing to fly away….yearning for the freedom of the stars. A young boy with fear and anger already inside him due to the hardship and injustice of his circumstances (and later, his constant worry for his mother), but still largely innocent.  A young boy supposedly taken away from slavery (and, at the same time, his mother)…only to end up serving a corrupt Republic in an unwinnable war, and a Jedi Order that had by this time become overly dogmatic and blinded to certain dark realities in its midst. A Jedi Order that had lost its way by becoming embroiled in the political happenings of—and subservient to—the military ‘needs’ of the Republic. A Jedi Order that was doomed the moment they allowed themselves to become soldiers instead of protectors. Supporters of perpetual war, instead of keepers of the peace. A Jedi Order that allowed itself to become slaves of the Republic, subject to the Senate’s every agenda and the Chancellor’s every whim, instead of free agents.

Anakin’s tale is so tragic because he believes he is going from (literal) slavery to freedom, to then fighting *for* the (physical and ideological) freedom of others during the Clone Wars…when in reality he is merely exchanging one set of chains for another, until he becomes fully imprisoned once more in the form of Vader.

In the Star Wars universe, it is stated that slavery is a primary tool of the Sith—for controlling one another, and also for the subjugation of the entire galaxy. And thus it stands to reason that if Anakin is truly the Chosen One (and this is confirmed by Lucas’ canon), then he is also the one who is destined to destroy the Sith….and by doing so, it is implied, break this seemingly-perpetual cycle of slavery (and mental/ideological enslavement).

This is why the climactic and emotionally cathartic ending of RotJ must herald an end to this cycle. What does destroying the Sith mean, if not that?

Without this, there is little point to Anakin’s otherwise wholly tragic story.

Without this, I would argue, there is little point to Luke’s story, either.

Because, what has always elevated Luke’s hero’s journey above, well, just another hero’s journey, is that he completes it not by defeating a villain, but by helping bring his father back to the light. By helping set his father free. I’d even go so far as to say that Anakin’s redemption forms the most crucial part *of* Luke’s hero’s journey. It is the ultimate triumph of gentleness, surrender, forgiveness, and compassion over brute strength, domination, anger, and revenge. Feminine virtues, over toxic masculinity. How important that, after so much war and violence, these values are finally embraced by two of the main male characters of the series.

And it is made all the more poignant by the fact that Luke is both the physical and symbolic embodiment of Anakin and Padme’s love—and of the Truth that Padme spoke with her very last breath, even after the attempt to silence her—now returned to face down Vader’s darkness and help him finally destroy the Emperor (as he was always meant to). It is Luke himself who inspires Vader to in turn save him….symbolically saving the embodiment of that very love that Anakin had tried so hard and so tragically to save in the first place. ”

excerpt 3:

“ By the end of [Return of the Jedi], it is made crystal clear that redeeming Vader is the *ONLY* thing that would actually work or have a lasting, positive effect. Meeting power with power would not work. Nor fear with fear. Nor anger with anger. Nor hate with more hate. That is what sent Anakin down that spiral to begin with. And when Luke duels Vader the first time, this is what causes him to lose. By the time of RotJ, Luke has come to understand the Truth, and knows what he needs to do very well, hence his actions.

In my opinion (and in my understanding of the original intended message of the story), the *only* way the Emperor could finally be defeated was by an act of sacrifice based on LOVE. Anakin/Vader’s final act is an act of finally embracing his own mortality, acknowledging his True Self, and setting himself free, it is true. But most importantly, it is an act of protection, done out of compassion, which Anakin himself once defined as “unconditional love, essential to a Jedi’s life”. This is why Anakin in this moment is the embodiment of the ‘Return of the Jedi'—he *protects*. He saves. He defends.  And this is what the true role of the Jedi was always meant to be.

Luke’s decision to turn himself over to the Emperor and appeal to that ‘barest flicker of persistent light’ within his father was necessary—not just from a thematic perspective, but also from a plot and story standpoint as well. Already by the time of The Empire Strikes Back, we were shown that the ‘true’ villain (in the sense of who has the most agency and is pulling all the strings) is the Emperor, and that Vader is, in fact, his servant/slave. (And of course, the Prequels and TCW only hammer home this fact.) The Emperor *had* to be defeated, or else the Empire would never have been stopped. The galaxy (like Vader himself) would never have been freed. For as we know, the Rebel Alliance had already attempted to defeat the Empire by blowing up the first Death Star, but of course the Empire just kept going and ended up building a new one. Blowing up the second Death Star was therefore never going to be enough to win the war against the Empire. (And there was no guarantee that Sidious would not have pulled a General Grievous on us and escaped the second Death Star at the last minute before they managed to blow it up, either.)

So, the Emperor had to be directly destroyed….and I think it’s pretty obvious that, however powerful Luke had become by this point, he was never going to be able to defeat the Emperor on his own. Only Anakin/Vader had the power to stop Palpatine/Sidious. Only Anakin *EVER* had this power. This is one of the reasons why Palpatine targeted and ‘groomed’ Anakin in the first place: he knew that Anakin was foretold to be the one who would ultimately destroy the Sith…..so what better than to bring him to the side of the Sith, instead?

But the beauty of this is that, through Luke’s presence in Vader’s life, and then his intervention in RotJ, Anakin is finally able to fulfill the very destiny that Palpatine had tried so hard to avoid by enslaving him to his will. Anakin *IS* the Chosen One, and no  matter how far he had fallen in the meantime….it is undeniable that, in the end, he fulfills his destiny and destroys the Sith. Both the outer-Sith that is Darth Sidious….and the inner-Sith within himself.

But after everything….after being imprisoned by Sidious for so long, he needs Luke there, as a reminder of his True Self, in order to be able to accomplish this. There is that line in RotJ where he says sadly to Luke, “it is too late for me, son.“ But Luke never gives up on his father, and finally Anakin/Vader sees this….and comes back to the Light via the act of saving Luke himself.

One act of compassion inspires another—and in doing so, achieves more than decades and decades of war and even the most noble of rebellions ever could.

This is extremely redemptive in so many ways—it even wholly vindicates Anakin and Padme’s love. For, without Luke’s actions at the end of RotJ, and Vader’s response to them, we would be left instead with the message that love = death and destruction. Instead, we see that love (even secret, forbidden love) is not entirely destructive, but is also creative, enduring, and can bring about hope and redemption, and, ultimately, freedom—on both a personal level, and to the galaxy as a whole. ”

excerpt 4:

“ …when it comes to the character of Darth Vader, the theme of the cycle of slavery/mental enslavement is imperative to understanding both why and how he has become what he is by the point of the Original Trilogy. Anakin lives much of his childhood as a slave. He is himself ‘freed’, but goes from physical enslavement straight into a scenario in which he must nevertheless still refer to his Jedi superiors as ‘master’. He later loses his beloved mother whom he’d so reluctantly left behind to a violent (imprisoned!) death that he feels he could have prevented if he had only listened to and acted upon his prophetic dreams sooner. He is in love with Padme and wants to be with her—something that is forbidden to him because of the Jedi Code. (Again, in this manner, he feels ‘un-free’.) The Clone Wars begin, and he marries her in secret, and goes off to fight for what he believes is the freedom of countless systems, becoming embroiled in constant warfare—along with increasingly divided loyalties—which takes a heavy toll on him. He wants nothing more than to end the war. To bring ‘peace’ to the galaxy. To be able to come home, and maybe, just maybe, finally make a real life for himself and Padme…and later, their unborn child(ren).  He is pushed further and further to the brink of doing ‘whatever it takes’ to end said war. Until his growing mistrust of the Jedi Council, along with his prophetic dreams of Padme’s impending death—and the subsequent machinations of Palpatine—all push him fully over that precipice.

Until, finally, he becomes the Emperor’s lethal weapon and unquestioning servant of his will.

And then, perhaps most significantly, after he is horrifically maimed in his fight with Obi-Wan on Mustafar, he becomes physically imprisoned within his life-support suit.  This suit, designed by Palpatine, is almost akin to a walking torture chamber, and at first causes Vader almost constant physical pain. Vader is kept ‘alive’ only by the suit and mask combination (or perhaps, rather, in a state of ‘half-life’).  The important thing to remember here is that he did not choose to be put inside this suit, it was done *to* him. And once he is inside, it is like he is frozen into this (seemingly) never-changing mindset and state of perpetual torment. Sealed thus, Vader becomes resigned to his imprisonment, to his anger and hatred-fueled existence…and to being one of the Emperor’s primary tools in bringing this same twisted form of ‘peace’ (aka, subjugation) to the rest of the galaxy. ”

◇ from my responses to comments on my DW account, pt. 1 (on a post about Anakin’s role in the saga):

excerpt 1 (Anakin’s need for a father-figure and a family as one of the reasons he struggled in the Jedi Order):

“…it's pretty clear that what Anakin needed (and wanted) more than anything was a *family*. (A father figure, his mother, Padme, his own family, eventually, etc. I could go on.) And this is the main area where the (old) Jedi Order fell short—for him, especially. We are always meant to see Qui-Gon's death as this fate-changing tragedy (hence the title of the scene, 'Duel of the Fates'), because Qui-Gon is one of—if not the only—Jedi in the Order at the time who could have been the father-figure *and* mentor that Anakin needed. Others had the capacity to be great mentors and teachers, but it is clear that Qui-Gon's level of compassion and his ability to demonstrate it openly were rare qualities amongst the Jedi at that time, indeed. Also, Qui-Gon had a much less rigid interpretation of the Code than others did, and would likely have been able to assist Anakin in his eventual struggles with certain aspects of said Code. (Amongst many other things!)

I think we are meant to see that, if Qui-Gon had lived and been able to teach and mentor Anakin, that perhaps even he and Anakin might have become agents of positive change within the Jedi Order. Together, perhaps some of the rigidity of the Jedi's adherence to certain aspects of the Code might have been able to be reformed. It's of course just speculation on my part, but I think this is hinted at. (Also, Qui-Gon is someone who never would have stood for the Jedi's participation in the Clone Wars. In TPM, he was very firm about his role. Recall what he said to Padme: "I can only protect you, I cannot fight a war for you." This is what the Jedi Order's *true* role is, to be protectors and keepers of the peace, and it is no surprise, therefore, that it is the Order's participation in the Clone Wars that leads directly to its eventual destruction, just as Palpatine/Sidious had always planned.)

While Obi-Wan most definitely stepped up to the plate and then some when it came to teaching Anakin, and while the two them eventually grew close as *brothers*, Obi-Wan was never able to provide Anakin with the father-figure (and father-son dynamic) that he so desperately craved. (And this is where Palpatine so coldly and calculatedly stepped in—Palpatine is characterized much as a child-abuser in this regard, and one that, imo, the Jedi Order failed to protect Anakin from.) Also, there is the fact that, because Anakin was brought into the Order later than others, he did not grow up even with the communal group of younglings of his age group, so even *that* sort of 'adoptive sibling' dynamic was lost to him. Add to that the fact that he was not allowed to visit his mother during the intervening years between TPM and AotC, and we start to see how all of the heart-breaking tragedy surrounding this character begins to unfold.”

excerpt 2 (re: the Jedi Code and the forbidding of romantic/familial attachments):

“…I personally feel that the part of the Code that forbids all romantic attachments (and thereby familial attachments as well) is a later addition and/or interpretation of the Code. Because the Jedi are a religious Order, they obviously need to have a Code of some sort, but as Qui-Gon said, Codes should not existence solely to govern *behaviour*. They should instead merely act as a guide or roadmap to understanding the Force. In other words, what is truly important about any rule is the *spirit* of the law, rather than the 'letter' of the law.

The Jedi believe in non-attachment, or rather, in practicing *detachment* on both a spiritual and material level, but imo, eschewing these types of relationships is not actually necessary to achieve this. These things are not mutually exclusive. In some ways, never allowing the Jedi to experience these sorts of relationships merely attempts to remove any form of 'temptation' towards attachment from their paths. Whereas, it's more difficult, perhaps, to find a level of detachment in one's outlook and actions while one has actual 'attachments' in form of loved ones, but ultimately this would help Jedi achieve a truer and more lasting form of 'non-attachment' (if that makes sense), if they could likewise find balance in all aspects of their own lives. And while there are of course some risks inherent in allowing Jedi to have relationships (and families), imo, there are just as many risks in forbidding this…as we know all-too well.

This is just my interpretation, but I feel sometimes like we are meant to see the 'no romantic relationships' thing as a sort of 'forbidden fruit' scenario with the Jedi, and an element that was not always inherent in their beliefs, and which was perhaps tacked on to the Code later (and this quote from A New Dawn supports this theory) It seems like a fear-based rule, rather than something totally necessary. Sure, there is an element of practicality in preferring that warrior-monks not have their own families to worry about so that they can focus their attentions and loyalties to the Order itself, but again, this does not automatically equate to 'no romantic attachments at all'. But by the time of the Prequels there also seems to be an attitude amongst the Jedi of 'oh no, but what if'—worrying about the consequences, etc., as though it were an inevitable conclusion that *all* romantic attachment leads inherently to disaster…which is itself a 'fear of loss' based way of looking at things.

I also cannot help but think of George Lucas' very first film, THX 1183, about a sci-fi dystopian world controlled by 'robotic police' where love/desire is outlawed. The two main characters come to an awakening and stop taking their medication that suppresses such feelings/desires. While of course this is not exactly the same situation as the Jedi Order on Coruscant, it is interesting that, in the Prequels, Lucas decided to make the romantic attachments something that is so strictly forbidden by the Jedi at this time.

All I'm getting at here, is that I feel that we are indeed meant to see this as a flaw of the Jedi Order, in the sense that perhaps this part of the Code had become overly rigid by this point, and thus the Jedi's inability to see beyond the 'black and white' in this matter is intended to be viewed as a failing on their part.”

excerpt 3 (Anakin’s powerful emotions, the Jedi Order, and his susceptibility to the Dark Side/Palpatine’s machinations):

“...Anakin experiences SUCH powerful emotions, and it is heartbreaking that, from the start, he is made to feel as though these emotions are inherently bad or wrong. His 'fear of loss', especially. This is a normal human emotion, especially for a child who has only just come from a difficult life situation and has left behind the only family member he'd ever had. It's not a trait that in and of itself leads automatically to darkness. It is, as you say, only Anakin's emotional isolation, in the sense of how badly he needs (and lacks) a deeper sort of guidance about his often frighteningly intense prophetic dreams, as well as his equally intense emotions—both the positive and the 'negative' emotions that he experiences on a daily basis, that leads to so much pain later on. (In part because, the judgmental attitude that he was met with from the start seems to have only made him less likely to seek this deeper sort of assistance directly from his fellow Jedi in later times.)

And this brings me to another thing—the way these interpretations of the Code have developed by the time of the Prequels-era seems almost as though the Jedi had become…I don't know…afraid, perhaps, of 'the Dark Side'. I say this because, in my opinion, it is probably an extremely natural thing for every single Jedi (or Jedi-in-training) to have a brush with the Dark Side now and then, even perhaps frequently. But the problem arises when these experiences are treated as something that 'taints' the one who experiences it. As something to be ashamed of, rather than something that is just part of the normal journey of being/becoming a Jedi. (Or even just part and parcel of the life of *any* Force-wielder.) Not only is this an unrealistic expectation of all Force wielders (aka, to never ever give in to darker emotions), but it also leaves them more open to the suggestions of those who *would* use these darker emotions to their own evil purposes (*cough* Palpatine/Sidious *cough*).

Instead of trying to make themselves into 'robots' who never experience and/or exhibit any sort of strong 'personal' emotions, the Jedi should be trying to figure out how to balance and channel the emotions they do experience, and to be understanding and compassionate of the fact that some will fall into darkness at times, but that this doesn't mean they are totally lost or 'damaged goods', but simply that they have experienced something that will, hopefully, only make them stronger and more able to handle such intense emotions or emotionally difficult situations (such as personal loss, etc) in the long run.”

excerpt 4 (the downfall of the Republic and the Jedi Order as orchestrated by Palpatine, regardless of Anakin’s precise role):

“Regarding your point about something devastating happening to the Jedi Order regardless of whether or not Anakin had turned, oh my gosh, YES. I totally agree. This is strongly, strongly hinted at all throughout (both the Prequels and TCW). I get very frustrated when people view Anakin as somehow solely responsible for what happens. I don't deny his role in all of it, of course, but it must not be forgotten that it is Palpatine/Sidious' machinations that a) cause the Clone Wars, and b) lead the entire Republic and the Jedi Order along with it to the point that they are perfectly primed and ready to fall as of the end of Revenge of the Sith. Order 66 is something that Sidious had planned for long, long time, and something he was merely waiting around and biding his time before carrying out. He had actually tried first to start a galactic war over a decade earlier, as of The Phantom Menace, and if he had succeeded, this would have sped up his intended process. (Ironically, it is Anakin and Padme who prevent him from succeeding in that instance, but I digress…) Which brings me to another point—Sidious already had an apprentice all the way back then, and was always *going* to have an apprentice to carry out his will, no matter what. He just couldn't believe his luck when the Chosen One himself basically fell into his lap and he seized his opportunity to prey upon Anakin's fears, etc.”

excerpt 5 (The Jedi Order’s approach to ‘the Dark Side’ and to dealing with darker emotions, as related to the importance of familial bonds):

“I think you're right as well in saying that the Order wasn't necessary fearful *of* the Dark Side itself. I mean, most of the Jedi are not cowering in fear of the Sith and are courageous in standing against darksiders in general, etc. Rather, their reticence seems to be more in regard to freely *exploring* the Dark Side, in the sense of using it/tapping into it. Which is understandable, given that that Jedi Order is dedicated to the Light. But at the same time, this reticence or even fear of allowing this type of exploration seems to have lead the Jedi to the point of not even knowing much about or truly understanding the Sith and/or Dark Side. And if one doesn't even know or fully understand one's 'enemy', then the enemy will always have the advantage. Which is precisely what happens.

You are also spot-on about how there are many ways of achieving inner-peace and calm, and many ways of 'holding back the darkness'. And the fact is that, for some Jedi, this might take the shape of being allowed to have an outlet for their stronger emotions, or to even be allowed to have the emotional support of family members/loved ones. For, as you say, some people just *need* something (or someone) to fight for, alongside their more general role as 'protectors of the galaxy'. The greater good can be adequate motivation for some, but maybe not the 'be all and end all' for everyone. After all, *family* is the building block of any civilization, however advanced, and if those who are supposed to be the protectors of civilization have forgotten the importance of this essential element, it is no surprise that the whole thing can so easily come tumbling down.”

◇ from my response to a comment on my DW account, pt. 2 (re: the PT in relation to the OT, and the purpose of the concept of Force Ghosts):

excerpt 1 (how I came to appreciate Anakin and the Prequels):

“…I grew up on the Original Trilogy, and Luke was always my fave …my childhood ‘hero of all heroes’, and much of my admiration for him stemmed from the way in which he manages to save his father, instead of destroying him, as everyone had encouraged him to do. Back then, I already really loved the father-son dynamic in RotJ, and was always deeply moved by Vader’s redemption at the end of that film, but I never really thought too much about Anakin’s overall storyline. And even after the Prequels were released, I, like so many others, dismissed them on a surface level for a long time, and didn’t really take the time to understand what they were trying to convey. So, believe me, yes, I am well aware of their various supposed ‘flaws’ and whatnot, but over the years (and with the assistance of additional supplementary material like The Clone Wars animated series) I have been able to gain a deeper appreciation of the *story* that is being told in those films, and of the overall purpose of Anakin’s arc.

Many dismiss Anakin as a character simply because of his evil deeds during and after his downfall, without understanding that the Skywalker saga...is intended to be viewed, overall, as a myth. Infused as it is with elements of heroic epics and greek drama, it is a distinctively older type of tale, played out on a galactic level. There is, therefore, something beautifully Romantic about this story that many miss, especially in the current climate of tumblr-fandom that is so myopically focused on concepts of ‘social justice.’ The more I thought about it, the more I came to love this extremely misunderstood character—this deeply loving, tragically flawed, all-too human god trapped inside a machine.”

excerpt 2 (the importance of Coruscant as a location, symbolically and in relation to Anakin’s fall):

“So yes, the…Prequel story is meant to show that the Jedi Order was not entirely ‘blameless’, and was, by its blind participation in a Sith-run war (amongst many other things), at least partially responsible for its own destruction and downfall. The location of Coruscant itself is meant to symbolize the deep levels of corruption already extant in the Republic as a whole, and to show that the Republic’s veneer of ‘civilization’ in fact is built upon a decaying foundation, one that is, by this point, being steadily and secretly ‘devoured’ by the Sith from within.”

excerpt 3 (Death vs. Immortality as a thematic link between Anakin’s fall and redemption):

“…when it came to the Prequels, there had to be a way of explaining [the concept of Force ghosts], because it was kind of a complex issue. There had to be a reason why Anakin/Vader was not previously aware of the possibility of this happening (his confusion in ANH at Obi-Wan’s disappearance makes it clear that he had never really encountered anything like it before), and so it was something that could not have been widely known or understood as of the Prequels-era. This is where Qui-Gon Jinn’s character comes into it (‘Jinn’ meaning ‘spirit’). This part is a little bit… confusing, admittedly, as there wasn’t really enough time to cover it in the scope of the Prequel films, but there *are* some further little hints scattered throughout the TCW series regarding this (such as Qui-Gon appearing briefly in ghost/spirit/vision form to a surprised Obi-Wan and Yoda, at certain key points).

What I find interesting here, is how this entire concept ended up being integrated into Anakin’s storyline. Because one of the biggest overriding themes of his story is this concept of mortality, or rather, his struggle to *accept* mortality—from which stems his extreme Fear of Loss, and eventual downfall, after which point he, ironically, becomes the embodiment *of* Death to the entire galaxy. In the RotS novelization, there is this evocative and incredible powerful recurring imagery of ‘the dragon of that dead star’—an ancient voice inside his head that whispers, “all things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.” Anakin is himself compared to a dying star throughout the course of RotS, and then later, in the OT period, as Vader, it is almost like he has *become* ‘the dragon of that dead star’ (ie, of the ‘Death Star’). In other words, he feared Death…and so Death he became.

This is a huge part of Anakin’s arc, and is one of the main components of the Jedi Code that Anakin struggled with for almost his entire life. This concept of ‘Death…yet the Force.’ Anakin’s struggle with the concept of mortality is therefore a struggle with his own faith. During the Prequel-era, he is never able to fully *believe* in or accept this reality. And this aspect of his struggle makes a lot more sense if his story is taking place in a context where actual visible ‘proof’ of life and/or existence after death via the Force is not currently known (or has perhaps been long-forgotten). So, for this reason alone, it make sense that Obi-Wan would learn how to ‘become’ a Force ghost (or whatever) during the period between RotS and ANH, and would do so via the assistance of his own ‘dead’ master, Qui-Gon Jinn.

The technicalities of how all of this is supposed to occur don’t really concern me, as I am more interested in the symbolism of it all. And what is so beautiful about it is that Anakin’s return to his True Self occurs, at least in part, because he finally accepts his own mortality, and gives up his own life to save his son. Before removing his father’s mask, Luke says to him, ‘but you’ll die’. Anakin’s reply, ‘nothing can stop that now’ becomes even more poignant when we consider that he had struggled to accept this fact his entire life (first with his mother, and then with Padme). It’s beautiful and symbolic and oh-so fitting to me that, in finally *accepting* his mortality and sacrificing himself to save his loved one, he is redeemed, and is also granted this sort of ‘immortality’ in the Force.

To me, *THAT* is what the final scene in Return of the Jedi is meant to signify—anything else is just a technicality, and one that I prefer not to concern myself with too much. My view of the PT and the OT is as forming together a ‘magnum opus’—aka, the ‘great work’ as defined in alchemy. And one of the intended results of the magnum opus is to discover and/or bring forth the ‘elixir’ or ‘philosopher’s stone’ that leads to eternal life, via a ‘Union of Opposites’. In the context of the Skywalker saga, this Union of Opposites is none other than Anakin and Padme’s forbidden love, the result of which is Luke (and Leia).

And so, what matters here is that Anakin Skywalker has finally, finally regained his faith and thus become a ‘True Jedi’ (as opposed to what the Jedi Order had defined ‘being a Jedi’ as during the Prequels-era). Because, in being saved by his son’s love, and by saving and demonstrating his love for his son above all, he has proven, once and for all, the Truth that he had long denied (because it had been so long denied *to* him)—aka, that ‘love (and thus personal attachments!) CAN save you’. And what is more, he has accepted that final aspect of his faith that had likewise eluded him for so long… Death…yet the Force.”

◇ from ‘Not just nostalgia’ (my response to this tumblr post):

(or, why a positive view of the Original Trio is of utmost importance to the message of Anakin’s story and the saga as a whole)

“ The tragedy of the Prequels seems to have perhaps lead some people to conclude, erroneously, that ALL of Star Wars (aka the Skywalker saga) is meant to be viewed in a similarly tragic light. This could not be farther from the truth—the Prequels, as the first half of the magnum opus, were given the structure of a greek tragedy in order to complement and enhance the emotional catharsis of the pre-existing Original Trilogy (the second half the Opus). The darkness of the beginning of the tale is not meant to overshadow the redemption at the end of it, but rather make it shine all the brighter. Lucas intended *his* Star Wars to be, not a tragedy, but one of the ‘divine comedies of redemption’. (If you don’t believe me, just read anything ever written by Joseph Campbell, one of Lucas’ most formative mythic influences.)

And so, the tragedy from which the second half of the story is born, is NOT, I repeat, NOT meant to insinuate that the Skywalker family is ‘doomed’ or ‘fated’ or ‘cursed’ to suffer constant, repeated ‘family tragedies’ no matter what. And it is certainly not meant to suggest that they (Luke, Leia, Han) will inevitably make the same old mistakes or meet the same fates as those who came before….. As I’ve mentioned before, Anakin’s tragedy is inextricably linked to his particular milieu and to his cosmic role and status as the Chosen One—it cannot be easily replicated, let alone repeated ad nauseum. Luke and Leia are likewise ‘of’ their own era, and are freed from the myriad restrictions and machinations that so ensnared their parents. When it comes to their role in this particular myth, they are thus meant to rise above the tragedy that came before, rather than repeat it.

And they do. In his climactic confrontation with his father and the Emperor in RotJ, Luke breaks the cycle. He throws away his lightsaber, and refuses to succumb. Unlike his father, Luke Skywalker is NOT a tragic figure, nor was he EVER intended to be. (Luke = Light. That’s what is name means, and that is what he is meant to represent, through and though. Luke is the Galahad to Anakin’s Lancelot.) And neither is Leia, for that matter. Yes, the Skywalker twins both suffer great loss, face great darkness, and have their own inner and outer struggles through the course of the OT, but overall their stories are intended to have an entirely positive (and restorative) outcome.

It is important to point out that, because Luke and Leia are the result of Anakin and Padme’s forbidden love (aka, the Union of Opposites of the magnum opus, which is meant to bring forth none other than the elixir of life itself), the hopeful, positive, and successful nature of their respective stories is absolutely crucial to the validation of it. After all, Luke and Leia’s very existence is the biggest ‘f*ck you’ ever to the Old Jedi Order. Love and family were something that was forbidden to the Jedi of old, and yet this is what brings hope and restores peace to the galaxy. This is the entire point of the story.

When viewed in the context of the PT and OT together, the Trio’s role is clear: by fully and openly embracing the LOVE and support of their family and friends, Luke and Leia are able rise above the tragedy of their parents. Their combined heroism, fueled as it is *by* their (positive) personal attachments, breaks the cycle and brings about Anakin’s redemption….restoring freedom to the galaxy, and vindicating Anakin and Padme’s love. An unequivocally positive view of the Original Trio’s relationship is therefore an essential and intrinsic element of the redemptive message of Lucas’ saga. To negate that, and to turn the Trio into tragic figures themselves, is to negate the entire purpose of the story—not just of the Original Trilogy, but of the saga as a whole. ”

And finally, one of my favourite excerpts…..

◇ from @muldertorture’s excellent post, ‘STAR WARS: The Creation of a Modern Myth: Cultural Influence, Fan Response, and the impact of Literary Archetypes on Saga Perception’:

(***please note, I DID NOT WRITE THIS ONE, I’m just including it here because I wholeheartedly agree with it)

“ Anakin…exists relative to the state of the galaxy. He is not Luke, he is not the youth of western literature on a journey; that is Luke’s role. Anakin’s role is that of the demi-god of Greek and Roman origin. When Anakin rises, the galaxy rises with him, when Anakin is in turmoil, the galaxy is in turmoil, when Anakin falls, so falls the galaxy. Anakin is intrinsic to the galaxy because Anakin, like so many other mythological demi-gods, is an avatar for the gods or, in the case of Star Wars, the Force. Regardless of any one person’s views on the Force (which are extremely disparate and widely varied, so we won’t broach that subject here), this fact is indisputable. Anakin, as the Chosen One who will “bring balance to the Force”, is its avatar. When Anakin is claimed by the Dark, the Jedi Order’s zenith is reached, the Balance is tipped, and the Order descends into darkness with Anakin, just as his return also signals theirs.

The title ‘Return of the Jedi’ doesn’t just reference Luke becoming a Jedi, but Anakin’s return to the Light, and with it, the ability for the Jedi Order to once more flourish. In this he is much like Beowulf, when the Geatish hero sacrifices himself to defeat the dragon at the end of the epic poem. Failure would spell ultimate destruction for Beowulf’s people and country, just as, had Anakin failed to destroy the Emperor, the Jedi and the galaxy would truly have been wiped out. Anakin himself has to die, however, because he is what tips the scales. Once he dies and becomes one with the Force, only then is balance restored.”

my commentary:

This right here is absolutely fundamental to understanding the entire purpose of the Skywalker saga, as Lucas so painstakingly told it. The destruction of the old Jedi Order that had ‘lost its way’ and forgotten its true role in the galaxy, and the founding of the New, heralded by Anakin’s return to the Light, and Luke’s essential role in reminding him—and us all—of what it means to be a True Jedi.

In closing, I’ll leave you with a selection of a few of my favourite fan vids that beautifully illustrate Anakin’s role as a tragic hero:

Krwling by YlvaJo

The Hand of Sorrow by Damsel In Damnation

Hurt by Matt Kowynia

Simple Math by SmokeyFizz

Eventually, I would love to write more meta-analysis on this subject (as it is near and dear to my heart), but in the meantime, I hope that this compilation will be of some use. :)  

[neuxue]

Wheel of Time liveblogging: The Gathering Storm ch 26

Aviendha gets a promotion, Romanda has a barbecue, and I lose it at any mention of Rhuidean because I am a parody of myself.

Chapter 26: A Crack in the Stone

Hey Aviendha, worked out the meaning of your punishments yet?

The Aiel brought only what they could carry, and their war band included only soldiers and Wise Ones.

Have the Aiel ever referred to themselves as ‘soldiers’ before? It strikes me as off, a little, but it could be that Jordan used it as well and I’m just misremembering.

Aviendha’s moving water from one bucket to another with her finger, one drop at a time, and I never thought I’d say this but right now I’m glad my university went with boring old paper examinations.

Actually I’d probably be okay at the Accepted test. And the Aes Sedai one, even. And those would certainly be more fun than written exams, for a given definition of ‘fun’…but this last Wise One test? No thank you.

It made her angry. Then that anger made her ashamed.

Anger leads to shame? Well at least she’s not turning into a Sith.

The Last Battle would be a test unlike any her people had ever known.

Will it? It’s shaping up to be one hell of a bigass battle, sure, but beyond sheer scope and scale and stakes…the Aiel know battle. The greater test, it seems to me, is everything else. Their history and their tests have been ones of identity and survival, and I would argue that’s the greater test that’s facing them now – maintaining a sense of identity as everything changes around them, as they leave their home and face the truth of their history and the uncertainty of their future.

After that, a battle – even if it is potentially world-ending – against a known or defined enemy would be almost a relief. What comes afterthe battle, though…‘The great battle done, but the world not done with battle’. What comes next for them, once they have left this chapter of their history behind? What do they become now, now that they have left the Three-fold Land and taken up their place as the People of the Dragon? ‘He will take you back, and he will destroy you’. That’s already begun; it started back at Alcair Dal. The Aiel have already begun to be scattered and broken and changed, and while Tarmon Gai’don itself will likely claim plenty of lives, I think Rand himself is more of a catalyst here. And the Aiel themselves, as it has always been in their history.

Anyway, Rhuidean still haunts me, news at eleven.

“Are you all right?”

Min! I almost can’t believe Min is on the askingside of that question, but it’s Min, so of course she is. Still. Are you okay, Min?

She wore a scarf at her neck.

Maybe…maybe she and Mat can start a trend? Exchange tips on How To Accessorise Your Asphyxiation? Bit of a niche market but I’m sure there’s some business to be had…

“I thought I could talk to you,” Min said, still looking out at the camp “I’m not sure who else I could approach. I don’t trust the Aes Sedai, and neither does he. I’m not sure he trusts anyone, now. Maybe not even me.”

Oh, Min. She tries so hard, and she just keeps going and keeps trying even when everything turns to an absolute literal horror show around her, but…what now? What can she do, when he no longer trusts her? The one person he still trusted, the one who almost convinced him he had gone too far…until that backfired in the most spectacular way possible. So now he can’t let himself trust, and he can’t trust himself with her, and Min tries so hardbut what can even she do, now? Where can she go, when there’s no one left who can reach him? He’s alone now; he may not have truly driven away all those who love him, but he has shut himself off from the last of them. It’s the culmination of a long, long process, and now…what more can they do, that they haven’t already tried?

Not to mention, Min was just nearly killed by someone she loves, and she’s still looking for a way to help him, and someone please just pull Min aside for five minutes and give her a cup of hot chocolate and a hug and maybe the business card of a really good therapist for when this is all over.

Aviendha had heard about the events the night before

What did she hear, exactly? What are the rumours? How much is actually known? Because that’s the sort of thing that can look so very different depending on how it’s being told, and by whom.

Rand al’Thor had fought and won.

And that is certainly one way to look at the sequence of events, if you strip it down.

Which is…kind of the point. If you strip away all context and emotion, if you write it out like a logbook or an accounting…that’s what you get. At the base level of life and death, Semirhage attacked Rand and he killed her. So he won, didn’t he? That’s victory, isn’t it?

It is, in miniature, a perfect illustration of the whole concept that if Rand faces the Last Battle as he is now, victory and defeat will be indistinguishable. He has done to the idea of Tarmon Gai’don what ‘Rand al’Thor had fought and won’does to Chapter 22. Stripped it of all meaning, of all context, of all purpose and consequence, of anything but a body count.

It’s how he has forced himself to see things, over this long course of hardening himself against everything he fears he cannot endure if he is to reach the Last Battle. It’s how he himself would likely describe what just happened with Semirhage, because the rest doesn’t matter. It’s the cold, spare harshness of the Void, in which everything is stripped down so far as to become…meaningless. It’s the state of mind in which he could reach out and touch the True Power, Shai’tan’s power, the power of chaos and entropy and oblivion. Which is maybe an indication that this is Hashtag Not Good.

Rand al’Thor had fought and won.

And the thing is, it isn’t just Rand’s internal mindset that this highlights. The fact that we’re getting this through Aviendha also shows something of how things can look so different from the outside, and thus how much of this is internal. Or, how much the internal actually matters.

His fight had left him scarred in ways she did not yet understand.

Aviendha can feel this and even if she can’t understand the exact nature of those scars, she can understand that they exist, that there is pain and that something is wrong. Whereas the rest of the world… the world doesn’t see Rand as human, really, and Rand no longer even sees himself as human, and it’s so easy to let that spiral.

Aviendha had raised the alarm, but not quickly enough. She had tohto him for her mistake

Oh Aviendha. Nothing you could have done would have changed it, I don’t think. This was a long time coming, in one form or another.

“Rand al’Thor will deal with his problems,” she said, dripping more water.

“How can you say that?” Min asked, glancing at her. “Can’t you feel his pain?”

“I feel each and every moment of it,” Aviendha said through gritted teeth. “But he must face his own trials, just as I face mine.”

I’m maybe with Aviendha on this one. At some point, some of it is going to have to come from Rand. He is at war with himself, and has been for, oh, eight or nine books now at least, and while Min and Aviendha and others are there for him, and can try to help him, they can’t do it for him; at some point it’s going to come down to him. To accept that help or not. To trust or not. To let himself feel things that hurt, or to shut them away. To fight himself or to accept who and what he is.

“You are not what I expected,” Min finally said.

“I have deceived you?” Aviendha said, frowning.

“No, not that,” Min said with a small laugh. “I mean, I was wrong about you, I guess. I wasn’t certain what to think, after that night in Caemlyn when…well, that night when we bonded Rand together. I feel close to you, yet distant from you at the same time.” She shrugged. “I guess I expected you to come looking for me the moment you got into camp. We had things to discuss. When you didn’t, I worried. I thought perhaps I had offended you.”

“You have no toh to me,” Aviendha said.

“Good,” Min said. “I still worry sometimes that we’ll…come to a confrontation.”

“And what good would a confrontation serve?”

“I don’t know,” Min said with a shrug. “I figured it would be the Aiel way. Challenge me to a fight of honour. For him.”

Aviendha snorted. “Fight over a man?”

Who needs love triangles when you can have honest adult conversations? I like this because it provides a contrast to the rapid friendship between Aviendha and Elayne (or Elayne and Min) without going the ‘they hate each other because women who like the same man must despise each other on principle’ route. Min and Aviendha are still strangers in many ways, and they’re still not entirely sure what to make of each other, and so…that’s what you get. It isn’t pushed towards an extreme, or played up for drama, it’s just…something they both know needs to be addressed at some point, and so they talk to each other about it. And maybe they won’t resolve everything right away, but they also aren’t going to be at each other’s throats about this. What a miracle.

“What honour would there be to be gained in fighting one with no skill?” Min flushed, as if Aviendha had offered her an insult. What a curious reaction.

They also come from very different backgrounds, and without an immediate or near-immediate friendship to help smooth some of that over, it’s going to be another thing that they have to learn to work around. But again, while Min may feel insulted and Aviendha may not understand (much like how Aviendha felt somewhat insulted or shamed by Min talking to her while she’s serving a humiliating punishment), it doesn’t turn into some kind of catfight.

It’s nice to see.

It’s one of the ways in which WoT benefits simply from having such a large cast of female characters; by numbers alone it allows for more kinds of relationships and interactions between women, so that any one dynamic doesn’t bear all the weight. That then allows for so much more freedom in writing relationships between characters that are simply true to the characters. Some of those relationships are friendly, some are antagonistic, some are neutral, and because they’re all different none of them feel like a (deliberate or accidental) generalisation.

“I would not fight with you unless you gave me grave insult. My first-sister considers you a friend, and I would like to do so as well.”

“All right,” Min said, folding her arms and looking back at Rand. “Well, I guess that’s a good thing. I have to admit, I don’t much like the idea of sharing.”

Aviendha hesitated, then dipped her finger into the pail. “Neither do I.” At least, she didn’t like the idea of sharing with a woman she didn’t know very well.

“Then what do we do?”

“We continue as we have.”

And that’s that. There are other things going on, and there isn’t really a whole lot else that can be done about this right now. But they’ve both been upfront about where they stand, and they’re more or less on the same page, and YOU GUYS IT’S JUST SO GOOD TO SEE CHARACTERS GET TO ACT LIKE ADULTS IN SITUATIONS LIKE THIS.

Anyway.

Oh, Aviendha is pissed off. Not at Min; Min mentioned the water thing in parting but that seems almost to have been a catalyst more than anything else. Aviendha is just fucking done.

She stalked up to the Wise Ones, fuming.

FINALLY.

“Not learning quickly enough?” Aviendha demanded. “I have learned everything you have asked of me! I have memorised every lesson, repeated every fact, performed every duty. I have answered all your questions and have seen you nod in approval at each answer!”

Forget written exams, any system in which graduation is determined by stalking up to your instructors and telling them to get fucked is clearly the way to go.

“I have left behind the spears, and I welcome my place among you.”

Joking aside, this reminds me of the scene from the Rhuidean sequence: “I am Aiel!” There’s very little in common between the two scenes, except for the fierce affirmation of identity, but that’s what stands out. Self-declaration and self-determination are an important part of who they are.

“Child,” Amys said, meeting her eyes. “Are you rejecting our punishments?” “Yes,” she said, heart thumping. “I am.”

It’s a testament to how well-constructed the Aiel are as a fictional culture that this feels absolutely right. It doesn’t seem to come out of nowhere, and not just because it’s been foreshadowed recently but because it fits seamlessly with what we’ve learned about the Aiel over the last several books, as they’ve gone from mysterious unknown outsiders to a familiar nuanced culture.

“I am ready to join you.”

She gritted her teeth, waiting for an explosion of furious incredulity. What was she thinking? She shouldn’t have let Min’s foolish talk rile her so. And then Bair started to laugh. […] Amys’s expression was uncharacteristically soft. “Welcome, sister,” she said to Aviendha. 

Aviendha blinked. “What?”

“You are one of us now, girl!” Bair said. “Or soon will be.”

“But I defied you!”

Or you asserted yourself. It’s all a matter of perspective. I like the way this rewards ambition and self-confidence. Also it’s kind of a sweet scene, even if Amys’s relationship to Aviendha is now rather complicated: she’s Aviendha’s mother by ceremony, and now sister by vocation…

“But there is rank among Wise Ones,” Aviendha said. “Is there not?”

“Rank?” Amys looked puzzled. “Some of us have more honour than others, earned by wisdom, actions, and experience.”

It’s set up as a contrast to the Aes Sedai’s system of rank-by-power or the Kin’s rank-by-age, but I have to wonder how well this would actually work in any kind of emergency situation. I suppose they do acknowledge certain informal ranks amongst themselves; they’ll all defer to Sorilea, and most will defer to Amys, and so on…and if they do not by tradition take part in combat (or didn’t) then it’s less of an issue because conflicts can be resolved through discussion. And honour is a much less abstract quality to the Aiel than it is to others. And to be fair, there are going to be problems with pretty much any system of rank, because people, so okay.

“A punishment is not a true punishment unless you accept it, Aviendha”

Alright, Eleanor Roosevelt. But once again it’s a philosophy that fits well with what we’ve learned of Aiel culture. Punishment and honour are tied closely together, and while they’re codified in some ways, there is also a great deal of choiceinvolved in both. How to meet toh. What your honour is worth. Who you are.

And so this was not about punishment, but about Aviendha needing to change her own self-perception. To see herself as a Wise One because she believes herself to be, because she believes she has earned it, not because they’ve told her she has. She has to accept this as her identity before anyone else can accept it. It’s internal before it can be external.

“Oh, she’s still a girl,” Bair said. “Until one more thing is done.”

Wait…

What would have happened if Min hadn’t riled her? She would have to thank the woman, although Min didn’t realise what she’d done.

That’s weirdly sweet. And again, rather…mature, I suppose, to acknowledge the help Min has given her, even if it was entirely unintentional. It’s something a lot of people struggle with.

“What must I still do?” Aviendha asked.

“Rhuidean,” Bair said.

WHAT.

ARE YOU—

IS THIS—

ARE YOU SERIOUS. RHUIDEAN.

I mean…I should not be surprised? This is the final step in becoming a Wise One, and the tradition for clan chief hasn’t changed so why would this, but at the same time I was WHOLLY UNPREPARED FOR THIS IN EVERY WAY.

Even though we’ve already seen the history of the Aiel, and Aviendha already knows it.

So it probably won’t take place on-screen, because while I would gladly just reread those two chapters I think publishers might disagree, but I hope we get something. Even just a reaction gif.

Also because it would be so different, to see that history through the eyes of one actually born and raised among the Aiel. It’s known to all of them now, but even so…for someone like Aviendha to watch some of those scenes play out, to see the truth of their origins and their honour…

I’m sure you will all be surprised to see that yes, I am once again Emotionally Compromised by Rhuidean.

“Things will be different, now,” Melaine said. “Rhuidean is no longer what it once was.”

YOU SHUT THE HELL UP.

“We will turn our backs on you now, Aviendha. We will not see you again until you return to us as a sister returning from a long journey.”

“A sister we had forgotten that we knew.”

HELP ME. SHE’S GOING TO RHUIDEAN AND I’m fine, this is fine, everything is fine.

I know, I know, that it makes no actual sense to show her journey through the glass columns, and that either something will go horribly wrong or else we’ll just cut-scene to when she comes out or returns to the Wise Ones, but. I want it anyway.

“I suggest Travelling to Cold Rocks Hold and walking from there. You must spend time in the Three-fold Land to contemplate your journey.”

Okay, that’s promising. Maybe we don’t see her go through the columns but we see her thinking over her people and their history and their uncertain future as she walks to the city that for so long stood empty, holding the secret heart and truth of who they are, and now is an oasis in the desert, open to all, no longer shrouded, no longer hidden. A walk of contemplation through the land that has been theirs for all living memory but is only a part of their exodus, a walk through history until she reaches the glass columns and sees the full truth of the history she has come to know through rumour and proclamation. It wouldn’t be a surprise that she then has to come to terms with, the way it once was for other new Wise Ones, but instead would be a way of gaining…certainty? Or of answering questions and affirming truths. It would become something of a bookend rather than an opening – she knows the history now, and so then this is the final step in seeing it in full and accepting it, so that now she can help them move on. Or something.

Listen. Let’s be honest here. If Rhuidean is involved I don’t even care about the specifics of how it’s given to me I just WANT IT.

That’s a lie, I do care. I care way too much.

HELP.

“Remember this time and the shame you felt, for it is the shame any da’tsangwill know, should you consign them to their fate. And they cannot escape it simply by demanding release.”

That’s an excellent lesson, and an important one. It’s empathy, really, which is often…underrated in positions of power.

Ah, so that’s how Sevanna ended up a Wise One. Every system has its flaws, after all.

“Once you reach Rhuidean, travel to the centre of the city. You will find the pillars of glass. Pass through the centre of them, then return here.”

There is no reason at all for me to quote this, I just…needed to.

“Spend well your days running to the city. We pushed you hard so that you would have this time for contemplation. It is likely the last you will have for some while.”

Aviendha nodded. “The battle comes.”

The calm before the storm, except it’s…more than that. I’m trying to figure out exactly how to phrase what I like about this. It’s the idea not just of pausing to breathe before everything explodes, but of taking time to think. Taking time for quiet contemplation. And it’s more than that; there’s a layering here of…they’re approaching the Last Battle, the end of an Age, something that will force the world from now into what comes next. Soon it will be about surviving the present and saving the future, but these last few days, this last time for contemplation, is then about the past. About going backto the Three-fold Land, about spending time there to think, about walking back through the history of her people and thinking on that. It’s a…grounding, an anchoring. A focus on identity and origin. A farewell, perhaps, but also a remembrance.

“Go,” Amys said, “and return.” She put emphasis on the final word. Some women did not survive Rhuidean.

But it’s also a variation on “forward. And back in time.” It’s the push-pull of who they were and who they are, of going back at this moment when they prepare to face the coming battle.

Also…okay bear with me here because we’re going on a semantic adventure. First of all, there’s a double-meaning in ‘go and return’ because ‘go to Rhuidean, and return to our past’. But the way ‘go’ and ‘return’ are emphasised, and the places they refer to, are also interesting here. ‘Go’ is ‘leave’ is ‘from here, to elsewhere’; but ‘return’ implies…home. It implies the status quo. She must goin order to get to Rhiudean, to get to the Three-fold Land, which was once the home of the Aiel…but from that home she must return. To here, to the wetlands, to this place in space and time and identity where the Aiel now are, because that place has changed. The Aiel have changed.

She has to go back to see what they once were – not just through the glass columns, but now the Three-fold Land is a part of that past; even the trip to Rhuidean is a part of that past. As Melaine said, Rhuidean is no longer what it once was. That’s the first step in the history now, even if it is outside of the ter’angreal.  And then she must return, not just from the columns, or to Chaendaer, or to her own hold, but to where the Aiel are. To who the Aiel have become. She has to see their full history, and they have taken their next step now; a new scene has been written.

All of that makes perfect sense in my head I swear.

From Wise Ones to Aes Sedai. Appropriate, I suppose, especially as we’re starting off with Shemerin.

Shemerin, who was demoted to Accepted and the change stuck because, according to Silviana, Shemerin allowed it to. She believed it, accepted it herself, and did not fight it or claim her place as Aes Sedai. She let her status be defined by someone else and could not stand up for herself against it. So it’s pretty much an exact inversion of what we just saw Aviendha do. I See What You Did There.

Romanda had not forgotten Siuan’s crafty nature, even if so many others in camp seemed to have done so. Lesser strength in the Power did not mean decreased capacity for scheming.

Except you still fell for it, Romanda. Hook, line, and sinker, as Siuan might say.

Sheriam had been withdrawn lately, and barely maintained the dignity of an Aes Sedai. Foolish woman. She needed to be removed from her place; everyone could see that.

Romanda’s on a roll here with expelling or trying to expel Black Ajah. Even if in this case she has no idea.

Romanda had rarely seen a woman as determined to punish herself as this poor child.

Not a child, Romanda thought. A full Aes Sedai, whatever she says.

Yeah, Shemerin is a rather perfect foil for Aviendha in this specific moment.

“You are Aes Sedai,” Romanda said, trying to keep the edge out of her voice.

Being told she is Aes Sedai, rather than claiming the title for herself. And because it does not come from her, she does not believe it. She sees herself as Accepted – as an apprentice – regardless of what status she was once accorded, or should still have. It comes back to identity, to how you see yourself. Shemerin accepts her punishments and her given status; Aviendha decided not to anymore.

“Tell me about this watergate,” Siuan said

Well, Siuan, Watergate is the name of a hotel that has become synonymous with political scandal ever since—oh, not that watergate. Gotcha.

“Where would we find it?”

You had better not be contemplating a rescue mission, Siuan.

“How is it that Elaida could think that demoting a sister was wise?”

You’ll be happier just…not thinking too hard on questions like that, Magla. All you’re going to do is give yourself a headache. Elaida decided wisdom was a dump stat and we’re all living with the consequences.

Something small was creeping beneath the canvas floor of the tent, moving from one corner toward the centre of the room.

Um? I can’t think what that could be but I doubt it’s anything good.

“You didn’t plot against her? You didn’t contradict her?”

Shemerin shook her head. “I was loyal.”

Good thing that’s in the past tense, though Shemerin’s still referring to Elaida as ‘the Amyrlin’. Still, the rebels have needed something like this – firsthand accounts of all the fresh steaming bullshit happening in the Tower on Elaida’s watch. They’ve had Egwene in Tel’aran’rhiod up until recently, of course, but it’s different when it’s coming from those who were on Elaida’s side.

“I suspect she used poor Shemerin as an example, acclimating the White Tower to the concept of demotion. That will let her use it on those who are actually her enemies.”

Repeat after me: THIS IS NOT NORMAL.

Man, some of this feels so very…relevant.

The conversation hit a lull. The Sitters who supported Egwene would likely head the list of those to be demoted, if Elaida retained her power and the Aes Sedai reconciled.

Excellent: a perfect selfish reason for them to make sure that doesn’t happen. That’s not even sarcasm; it’s a good way to keep them motivated to achieve what they came here to achieve. They could just toss Egwene to Elaida as a scapegoat and reconcile with her – and the more time that passes, especially without Egwene able to communicate with them, the more appealing an option that becomes. But it becomes far less of an option if they know they’d go down with her.

Oh cool it’s a giant cockroach. Yum.

Nope, lotsof giant cockroaches.

I had a good laugh at the image of the Warders standing there with their swords drawn, ready to face the threat, and just looking at the flood of cockroaches like ‘…I do not get paid enough for this’.

“Is there anything in the tent that is dear to you?” Lelaine asked, looking back at the tent.

Why Lelaine, I’m surprised you care! It’s an almost sweet moment; the two of them momentarily united against a greater – or in this case at least more disturbing – enemy. Which, I suppose, is precisely the point. They’re not enemies; they should be helping one another and working together against the Shadow, rather than spending their time and energy trying to outmanoeuvre one another.

Romanda spared a thought for her journal, but knew that she’d never be able to touch those pages after her tent had been infested this way. “Nothing that I’d care to keep now,” she said, weaving Fire. “And nothing I can’t replace.”

It’s a good attitude to have, especially as they all stand at the brink of a battle that will change quite possibly everything.

And it’s even another small link back to the previous scene, with Aviendha. A slight inversion, perhaps, but again the issue of looking back, of the past and letting it go or remembering it, moving forward.

Romanda thought she heard the insects popping and sizzling inside.

Mmmmm, dinner.

Light, she thought. Egwene is right. It is coming. Fast.

[…]

The Tower needed to be whole. Whatever it took. Would she be willing to bow before Elaida to make that happen? Would she put on an Accepted dress again if it would bring unity for the Last Battle?

She couldn’t decide.

It’s not an easy choice, in part because the question isn’t simply unity but what sortof unity. And whether there can be unity at all under Elaida, after she has already split the Tower and then shattered her half of it.

It’s not an easy choice because, in Romanda’s position, there’s no way to know. There’s no way to know if Egwene will prevail, and if she’ll be able to heal the Tower in time. There’s no way to know if Elaida would be able to hold them together, or if she might at least be better than nothing.

And there are the questions of pride and identity and selfishness, and Romanda acknowledges those, too.

There is no time left, and they have to make some of these decisions now; they have to put so much behind them and let go of so much, and move forward, but there’s not necessarily any way to know which path will be the right one. They just have to choose, and hope they choose correctly.

Next (TGS ch 27)

Previous (TGS ch 25)

[425599167]

Do you have any advice on writing Barriss? I got recommended you as the person to ask, because I was thinking about writing something with her.

Really? Alright, here are some guidelines for her and the other canon/legend characters I’ve included. Let me know if it helps.

Barriss:

Barriss embodies every contradiction and failing of Jedi philosophy. Pacifism when convenient, fear of the dark side despite fear being considered a path to it, all of that. Training her whole life to become a Jedi has left her mired in that mindset and she can’t see her way out, because she’s stopped wanting the thing she’s always wanted, and that would make all her efforts “pointless”.

Barriss is completely self-aware. On some level, she knows about #1. And it gnaws at her. Constantly. The reason she’s seemingly the first Jedi to have doubts about the war and act on them is because the contradictions became too much.

Barriss is resourceful. Combat-wise, she is scarily good at using the environment to her advantage, either through improvised weapons or use of terrain. This was obvious in her fight with Ashoka, hiding behind industrial machinery, creating distractions, and then the steam trick. This was also noticeable on Geonosis: it was her initial idea to use the enemy’s own tank against them. Depending on how much control the brain worm had, using shards of broken equipment may have also been her idea. Being weirdly proficient at combat is just another thing about herself that confuses and worries her.

Barriss isn’t dark-sided. Alignment in the Force is usually treated as dependent on intent, not consequence, that’s why dark sides rely on emotions like anger and hatred. Killing alone isn’t what draws on either side of the Force, motivation determine that. Barriss does not want to be what she is. She still killed those people, and has to be held responsible for it, but there wasn’t any real malevolence behind it, just fear and desperation. That’s not darkness on its own.

Barriss is highly intelligent, arguably the smartest padawan we see, probably one of the smartest people in the Jedi Order. Her memory is keen, and with adequate prep time, she can come up with detailed and extremely effective strategies. Improvisation isn’t her forte, but she can at least adapt fast enough to accomplish her goal. The only reason her plot failed, even after things started getting beyond her control, was because she let Ventress live and kept her sabers, which could charitably be interpreted as an act of self-sabotage.

Barriss is isolated. Sure, she gets along enough well with others, but Ahsoka was probably her only actual friend. Her self-image revolves around what (she thinks) Luminara thinks of her, and has no other role models. She hates being touched, but needs to be hugged.

Barriss is self-loathing. She’s a murderer and a hypocrite and she knows it. It’s important to note she considered herself those things before the bombing due to her participation in the war. She also has no idea what to do about it. No matter what opinion people have of her, in-universe or out, no one hates Barriss more than Barriss hates Barriss.

Ahsoka:

Ahsoka doesn’t like being jerked around. Attempts to manipulate or use her in any way really irritate her, especially after the events leading up to her leaving the Jedi. Any kind of foul play or indication of such will immediately tick her off. 

Ahsoka doesn’t like being alone. She was raised in a communal setting, and throughout the Clone Wars, there probably wasn’t a single day that went by without her interacting with Anakin, Obi-Wan, R2, other Jedi, the clones, or Padmé, all of whom were practically family to her. Now she doesn’t have them. At best, she knows they’re alive but can’t reach them, at worst, she knows or believes they’re dead. She’s getting new people in her life and mending her relationship with Barriss, but it’s difficult.

Ahsoka won’t hesitate. Her development didn’t just teach her restraint, it was gaining experience so she knows what to do immediately when split-second decision making is required. She’s a survivor, and will kill people if they’re a threat. Killing isn’t her go-to option, but if her opponent has to die for her or her friends to live, it’s the end for them.

Ahsoka is tough. Should go without saying at this point, but she’s extremely strong and is an experienced soldier and survivalist. She can whether harsh environments, and use weapons other than her saber with a reasonable degree of skill. The destruction of the Jedi and the Republic shook her, but she kept going. She hurts, but she endures. Somehow.

Ahsoka learns from her mistakes. She has combat experience both in space and on the ground, in infiltration and direct attack, some of which nearly killed her and those around her. Every lesson about what it means to be a Jedi, or a leader, she is paying attention and learning, even if she doesn’t get it right away.

Ahsoka is much like Anakin, except better. As her master, he’s had more of an effect on her than anyone else, acting as her primary role model. And she’s better than him. She’s less arrogant, more in control of her emotions, less aggressive, more self-reflective, and isn’t possessive of the people she cares about like he is. 

Thrawn:

Thrawn is a static character. That’s not a criticism of the writing behind him, Thrawn’s lack of personal development is the reason he’s a villain and the eventual cause of his death. He has immense intelligence, but never, not once at any point in his life does he commit any of it towards becoming a better person. He’s completely certain he’s thought everything out and chosen the best option. Throw whatever impassioned speech you want at him about the evils he’s committed, he won’t change. Rukh killed him because he kept the Noghri enslaved, even when he had all the power in the Empire and could’ve freed them, could’ve��stopped compromising morality, could’ve stopped lying to himself, and he didn’t. 

Thrawn is a master of psychological warfare and counterintelligence. He understands others easily, but that skill is completely dedicated towards finding ways to bring them down, often by feeding them information which will cause them to act in a way that furthers his plans, or simply causes groups of enemies to lose cohesion because they don’t trust each other. He doesn’t just anticipate his enemies, he makes them do what he wants. Also the art thing is over-exaggerated. If you can come up with an interesting way to include it, great, but it’s really the least interesting or menacing thing about the character.

Thrawn has just enough noble qualities to make people think the Empire is something worth fighting for. While the xenophobic higher-ups in the Empire may loathe him, one of his greatest strengths is how he’s seen by people who serve under him. He values the lives of his soldiers, and won’t waste them. Through his skill as a strategist, he gives them hope of victory. He respects their work, and they know it. And it’s not an act. Vader is feared, Thrawn is respected. Palpatine controls, Thrawn leads.

Thrawn is only as evil as necessary, but he’s still Evil. Don’t ignore that.

Thrawn is alien. While he may be closer to human than many Star Wars species, he has an uncanny-valley creepiness to him in contrast to more overtly terrifying villains like Vader. One thing I wish Rebels had kept was that his eyes don’t have pupils; I understand it was so the audience can see where he’s looking, but not being able to read him would work in the show’s favor. Don’t show his inner thoughts unless it’s absolutely necessary. Keep his exact mindset and motivations unknown to everyone, including his allies. With Ahsoka, despite being non-human she still acts and emotes like one, and her alien features correspond to human ones i.e. hair and eyebrows. The audience is intended to treat Ahsoka like a human, while they should be given reminders that Thrawn is definitely not.

Talon Karrde:

Karrde honors his deals. If he says he’ll do something, he’ll do it, even if he does so at a loss, and he won’t pull any exact-words bullshit to wriggle out of it. He’s a good foil for Hondo Ohnaka.

Karrde is fair. His employees are paid well, and there are significant benefits to working for him, especially in comparison to other criminals. The agreements he makes with people that are mutually beneficial, and he’s open to renegotiation. Still, that’s all it is: an agreement. Working with him doesn’t make him your friend.

Karrde came from nothing. It’s never established in Legends, but I think this guy grew up poor, and now that he has considerable funds at his disposal with more coming in, he wants the bestest, highest-quality ships and equipment and supplies. For himself, and for the people who work for him. Looking down on him for being a smuggler is one of the few things that can get under his skin. Brings back memories. 

Karrde is nondescript. He’s got a lot of money, but nothing about his appearance and residence are ostentatious. It’s all part of keeping a low profile, not drawing more enemies by showing off his success.

Karrde keeps calm. Even in dire situations, the guy keeps a cool head and tries to see his way out of it. He’s in complete control of his facial expressions and body language, and gives nothing away. In Legends, he was able to keep out of Thrawn’s clutches for a while, and his abilities should reflect that.

Karrde tries to act True Neutral, but he’s actually Neutral Good. He doesn’t like people knowing this.

Oh boy, do I have thoughts on Revan:

Revan is not good or evil. In my opinion, it’s best when “Revan the Prodigal Knight” and “Darth Revan, Lord of the Sith” are only a hair’s breadth different from each other. Close enough you wouldn’t be able to tell which is which until you’ve had a very long discussion. My “light side” Revan holocron has not lost a step and is still one of the baddest (ex)meatbags in the galaxy. If they’re being written as a perfect hero or a remorseless monster, you’re missing a lot of opportunities.

Revan thinks in the long-term. The extreme long term. It wouldn’t be unusual for them to lay groundwork for objectives which are years, decades, or in the case of my Revan, centuries away. This is also a factor in how their sense of morality got warped, willing to sacrifice millions if it means the galaxy will still be populated in a thousand years. That big-picture thinking lets them shrug off the “small” stuff. Like the trail of corpses they leave.

Revan is a polymath. Much of what makes them so improbably hypercompetent is that, unlike many characters, they are not overspecialized either in skill or general knowledge. They don’t know everything, but they can be considered to have taken a 100-level course in basically any subject you want to bring up. They’ve canonically shown knowledge of strategy, tactics, politics, history, economics, sociology, linguistics, and multiple fields of engineering ranging from functional to expert, in addition to detailed understanding of the Jedi and Sith.

Revan is pretty laid back most of the time. They’re probably the least dramatic Sith… for however much that’s worth, and are pretty forgiving. While Malak was giddily prepping the stage for their climactic final duel on the top deck of the Star Forge, Revan was probably standing alone in the elevator during the long ride up the megastructure, humming their own made-up theme music or something. Among Star Wars characters, they have one of the more deliberate senses of humor, intentionally making jokes rather than incidentally doing things the audience might be amused by. Even when explaining something deeply philosophical, they speak with a casual tone and vocabulary you’d expect of an average person. They know bigger words, in several languages, but if the intent is communicating a point to people, there’s no need to act sophisticated. They’re not overly polite or sesquipedalian, and they’re not reserved about profanity.

Revan doesn’t depend on the Force. I have no love for Kreia, but this is consistent with what you might expect from her training. While stronger with it, Revan is fully capable of fighting without supernatural aid, or lightsabers for that matter. In-game, they show skill in using vibroblades, blasters, and various explosives, and the game allows the use of advanced cybernetic implants. Even after becoming a Jedi again, Revan is the one operating the gun turret and regularly shooting down whole squads of fighters. They’re also capable of talking their way out of most situations either through negotiation, bribery, lies, or threats, to the point where a high persuade skill is arguably better than the mind-trick power. For all the jokes about how most players approached the final battle with Malak with mines, to me, it’s completely in character for Revan to have been using grenades and mines both out of practicality, and to mock Malak with the fact he’s getting a taste of his own medicine by getting blown up from a distance.

Revan doesn’t care for your rules. This isn’t some juvenile “rebellious” attitude. It’s logically picking apart constraints and flawed processes, not for the sake of doing so, but because they are wrong, Revan can prove it, and they are superior to those who refuse to address their own mistakes as a result. No one and nothing is above criticism or ridicule, ever. And that includes Revan themself. They can take (useful) criticism.

Revan is a control freak. Their core flaw is immense confidence in their own superiority over everyone driving them to control everything because they can clearly do it better than anybody else can. People don’t often pick up on this because a) it’s a fun and necessary part of the game and b) Revan usually does do a better job than everybody. This behavior is obvious as a Sith, but even as a Jedi, Revan is someone who takes it upon themself to solve every single problem they encounter. Revan was the only one who could stop the Mandalorians. The only one who could save the Republic. The only one who could control the Star Forge. The only one who can beat Malak. You could make jokes about how everyone else in the galaxy is too incompetent to do anything right, or you could see various unnecessary sidequests as examples of Revan needlessly inserting themself into every situation they come across to exercise their power, benevolently motivated or otherwise. Revan didn’t need to hunt those bounties on Taris, or become swoop champion on two planets, or literally beat every professional pazaak player in the galaxy at their own game, or decide the outcome of the Sunry trial, or do every single thing possible to get prestige on Korriban when half would do, or hunt down and kill that woman’s fuckbot. That last one didn’t even have any reward, but they do it all anyway. The ultimate end of a light-sided Revan’s character development is to give up on this mindset, summed up with one really underrated line in the tomb of Naga Sadow, directed at Sith who consider themselves so much better than other people and think you should, too: “I don’t believe you. I don’t feel superior to anyone.” If Revan is dark-sided, they never learn when to quit and the entire galaxy suffers for it. Even if you’re writing them as light-sided, those are tough habits to break.

Avoiding pronouns is surprisingly easy and I recommend doing so.

[gch1995]

I’m not excusing Anakin’s crime against Padme in that scene, regardless of how genuinely out of his fucking mind he was high on the dark side in that moment, and he was completely worthy of a punishment for his crimes against the Republic/ Order. Yeah, I completely understand that Anakin clearly was not mentally well at all, I completely understand why he felt his options were limited when his support/therapy system was shitty, I completely understand that Sidious groomed him for 14 years and handed him a drug that makes users exceedingly paranoid, psychotic, and aggressive when fully tapped into, I completely understand why he felt trapped in the toxic environment of the Jedi Order/Republic/Palpatine when they were all he had left, but he still knew Palpatine was a Sith Lord when he chose him over Mace in that moment in his desperation to avoid potential abandonment of his wife. He still had enough clarity of mind to feel guilty for the crimes Sidious asked him to commit, even if he was taught to rationalize them as “necessary evils.” Therefore, he is at the very least guilty of being complicit in Sidious’s crimes and guilty of almost (sort of) involuntary manslaughter in regards to Padme with that force choke.

A lot of fans seem to think that was a conscious choice to kill Padme with that force choke, but, while it was still despicable, no matter what, that actually wasn’t the case at all. When Obi Wan tells Anakin to drop Padme from the force choke twice, Anakin briefly has this confused look on his face like “What the hell am I doing?” Then, he immediately screams at Obi Wan “You turned her against me” and “I won’t let you take her from me!” After he is put in the Vader suit, the first thing Anakin does is ask Palpatine where Padme is and if she’s safe. When Palpatine tells him that “it seems in your anger, you killed her,” Vaderkin is genuinely shocked like “Me? What? No! I-I couldn’t have! She was alive! I felt it! NOOOOOO!”

It’s gross, but clearly he was out of his fucking mind on Mustafar when he force choked Padme in the heat of the moment in his blind paranoia, rage, jealousy, and misperceived sense of betrayal and abandonment when he saw Obi Wan cockily walking out of that ship as she was telling him she loved him and he was breaking her heart after she denied his completely delusional and psychotic request for her to join him so he could escape Palpatine and they could rule the galaxy together. Yeah, he could occasionally be rather arrogant and cocky, he had anger issues, and he was obsessed with gathering power to be safe, to avoid death of loved ones, and possibly to free the slaves in the outer rims that the Republic/Senate/Jedi Council weren’t willing to do anything to free. However, he was never interested in politics. He knows nothing about ruling. Two days earlier in ROTS before falling to the dark side after reuniting with Padme, he was like “Let the Separatists take care of it.” Then, high on the dark side, and with Palpatine’s grooming working as rationalizations, he does a complete 180 and is like “I’ve brought peace and security to my new Empire” and “Let’s rule the world together, Padme” after murdering the Separatists and the vast majority of the Jedi Order, including the kids, because he was terrified of losing her.

The fact that he only ever comes up with these delusional fantasies for world domination on the dark side when he sees a close family member or loved one he thinks he can trust to help him escape and defer to, proves that he still feels too hopelessly terrified and trapped as Sidious’s slave to take a stand and fight against him himself, and not something he’s seriously invested in obtaining for himself. No matter how powerful he is/becomes, Anakin always regresses to a slave mindset to serve these corrupt authority figures who offer him power to survive in the Jedi and Sith in exchange for him being their weapon because he has no idea how else to escape, so I always saw the “We can rule the galaxy together” line as this broken and twisted cry for help for freedom in his psychosis on the dark side, rather than narcissistic delusions of grandeur.

He was openly horrified and remorseful about having committed mass manslaughter against the entire Tusken village in his blind rage over his mother’s death in AOTC. However, he had never laid a hand on Padme or his loved ones in his rage. He had never acted like he was okay with committed crimes against innocents before. Sure, you can argue that Yoda and the Council weren’t entirely innocent, but they still didn’t deserve to be murdered. The kids were innocents.

Either way, yeah, Obi Wan did come across as not being much better in comparison to Anakin on Mustafar in RotS, which is something a lot of fans overlook because he’s a Jedi who remained a Jedi his whole life and Anakin was a fallen Jedi who became a Sith. Yes, absolutely, realistically and objectively speaking, Anakin was completely deserving of either a long term imprisonment or a clean death penalty.

However, the ways in which Yoda and Obi Wan go about executing him in RotS would still be considered inhumane, manipulative, and unjust. Obi Wan and Yoda were the adults were grandmasters on the Council in charge of the Jedi organization above even Anakin. Additionally, they were both his teachers for 14 years, Yoda is the school principal/therapist, Obi Wan was essentially the legal guardian primarily responsible for raising Anakin throughout his formative years from 9-18. We all know they were shitty at their jobs because they conscripted and groomed children for warfare, emotionally/psychologically abused, isolated, and neglected them, endangered these children’s lives from the age of 10 by sending them on missions, made them feel guilty for having completely valid human negative emotions, desires for independence, individuality, and emotional support. We all know that Anakin was treated as the “black sheep” of their cult from day one and got dismissed and shut down every time he did try to reach out for support. We all know that Obi Wan, Yoda, Mace Windu, and the rest of the Council were completely okay with allowing for a child under their care to speak alone with the Chancellor who’s hyperfixation with seeing Anakin alone should have been obviously creepy, but they decided to allow and encourage the friendship to develop between them for their own benefit of “the greater good,” only to tell him not to trust Palpatine and commit treason against him as an adult before finding out the truth of him being the Sith Lord when it was no longer convenient. We all know that Yoda was completely okay with treating the clones as slaves for war. We all know that the Order, while not overtly domineering, did deliberately isolate and limit the options for their students to leave their cult.

Instead, Yoda’s immediate response is to execute Anakin for his crimes, no questions asked about why he fell to the dark side, how they failed him, or any talk about giving him a fair trial. Obi Wan doesn’t want to have to kill him because he has grown attached to Anakin as family. Obi Wan deliberately disregards Padme’s request to speak with Anakin alone by hiding away on her ship, so that he can use her as bait to lure her husband into a trap to execute him. Like, he’s so certain that there couldn’t possibly be any good left in Anakin, even though Padme tells him that she spoke to him like a day ago after he turned to the dark side, and he still hadn’t harmed her then. That doesn’t even give Obi Wan an inkling that if there was anyone left who could convince Anakin to stop this shit, it was the woman he loved. He’s been so brainwashed by Yoda’s cult to believe that there was no going back for a Jedi once they fell to the dark side, and so confident that he must be right that he’s actually willing to use this clearly paranoid and unstable young man’s pregnant wife to start a fight. Obi Wan doesn’t even have the courage to face Anakin in a fight himself. He feels the need to risk Padme’s, an innocent’s, well-being, so he can lure him into a trap to execute him for “the greater good.”

I’m not saying Anakin is innocent for his crimes against the Jedi Order/Republic, and/or that he wasn’t deserving of a clean death penalty and/or long term prison sentence. However, in real life, the remaining Jedi Order just deciding to execute this clearly unstable man by for his crimes right then and there by baiting him into a fight with his innocent pregnant wife, then leaving him out to burn alive, rather than just putting him out of his misery after they get the upper hand, would be considered war crimes. There was no offer for Anakin to have fair trial before the remaining Republic, and no questions or concerns asked about his motivations or his mental state. In real life, he probably would still be convicted of at least a long term prison sentence and get put in therapy/rehab/mood stabilizers, if not a death penalty via lethal injection, by the jury in a court, though there are always opportunities for it to be commuted to life imprisonment on the waitlist. However, Obi Wan, Yoda, and the Jedi Council certainly would be punished for committing their own war crimes and for being indirectly complicit through inaction for Anakin’s fall to the dark side through their abusive practices and negligence that created that instability in this boy, which lured him there.

Obi-Wan really chose the worst possible moment to dramatically emerge from within Padme’s ship in Revenge of the Sith. 5 more minutes and she might have gotten through to Anakin, or at least wouldn’t have been in the line of fire

[obaewankenope]

The Gospel of the Anakin Apologist + The General Rudeness of Unrelated Comments on a Post

So @stonefreeak had an anon show up and whine about Padme. I and @sanerontheinside added our two cents in then *waves hands* SOME ASSHOLE shows up and wants to play ‘Anakin is a victim and Padme is a stupid ho and Obi-Wan is to blame for EVERYTHING EVER’ on the post even though, amusingly enough, it has no bearing on the discussion in the slightest.

Ergo I got vexed.

Actually all of us did bc wow stupid much.

The rest is under a read more because wow this got long and salty.

Also I’m tagging people so they can share the salt: @meabhair, @kyberpunk, @maawi, @markwatnae, @lilyrose225writes, @knight-kennedy, @punsbulletsandpointythings, @deadcatwithaflamethrower, @myurbandream, @jhaernyl :)

You see, we were discussing Padme as a female character and the double-standard around female characters being expected to be perfect and male characters essentially being able to do whatever the fuck they want so long as they’re pretty (pick a fandom, any fandom, you’re guaranteed to see the same dichotomy in treatment of male - female characters).

Apparently we can’t do that shit tho bc ‘oh no you’re blaming my bae!!!’ like wow, really fucking stupid much.

Anyway, to explain why I’m raging (why all of us are raging actually: it’s glorious to behold and I feel so blessed to experience the righteous fury of my spouses and friends) I personally feel like this particular person has literally pulled the embodiment of that “she doesn’t even go here” meme because whoa boy, their reblog does not belong here.

Now, in general I’m usually quite happy to let the morons roll on by like the sad little tumbleweeds of ignorance they are. But not when it’s on a post informing others of the behaviour and perception of gender/sex relations and treatment of characters in fandom. When you show up here and want to blame a single character who is flawed, especially just to venerate and excuse the behaviour of another flawed character... well, then I feel obligated to respond.

It’s not personal it is it’s just in my nature.

Okay so, first paragraph of their reblog (and subsequent stupid dialogue included) sums up the situation on Mustafar as ‘Padme should have been a good wife and sided with her genocidal husband who just helped wipe out thousands of lives (including children) bc she’s his wife’ and that ‘Obi-Wan is responsible bc he tried to do his duty as a Jedi’ and apparently that’s wrong as according to the Gospel of the Anakin Apologist.

Of course, they make a general, sweeping statement about Obi-Wan, describing him as a ‘fantastic space cop but an asshole friend and a person in general’ which, as I’m sure you’re all aware, shows a typical lack of understanding of what the Jedi are in universe, and also the background of Obi-Wan and Anakin’s interaction.

This isn’t unusual and I’m not gonna berate people for not knowing about the EU (Extended Universe) materials, or those damned benighted Junior Apprentice (JA) novels about Obi-Wan’s padawanship (and Anakin’s later on). The thing is though, there is plenty of information available about Obi-Wan, his background and so on on various websites -- Wookieepedia, to name but one -- so I don’t think it’s fair to be so quick to judge a character, any character, without understanding their background.

Even if this blogger is uninitiated into the ranks of SW lore and such, even if they only have the movies to go on, I still consider them to have a shockingly particular mindset and perspective of the relationship between the three protagonist characters.

So, here’s the thing, the below is a direct quote from their post. As you can see it’s... a particular perspective.

Padme should have sided with Anakin or Obi-Wan clearly when Anakin confronted her about Obi-Wan being on the ship, Obi-Wan killed Padme by appearing while they were talking, Padme might’ve been able to talk some sense into Anakin or join him, i guess Obi-Wan was afraid Padme would flip sides and decided to burst out with his “hello there” bullshit, if i was Padme i would have immediately said            “that fucker snuck on my ship i had nothing to do with this, take care of him my love!” or “oh shit, well i didn’t plan this Obi-Wan tag in!”            i know she was shocked and all that jazz but lady think on your feet, you went to meet your fugitive husband who just killed a academy full of space coplings on isolated planet and a space cop popped out of your trunk, use your words and use them quick! Anakin choking his wife in anger is understandable when you think of it from his perspective,           “ok im on the hide from the law(Jedi), ill contact my wife and get her to safety” “hi love i came alone as you asked”            “oh thank god for a moment i thought you might sympathize with the corrupt jedi” *Obi-Wan dumb ass pops out of the shadows* “hello there bitches!~~”            “wtf Padme?! you brought a cop to our meet out?! you do know i am wanted dead right!? You little bitch! i did this all so i could keep you alive and this is how you repay me? i killed younglings to get this power Padme fucking younglings! you ungrateful little bitch ill kill you!” “hey bro let her go you said you wanted to save her right? kind of doing the opposite right now”            “… god damn it i hate it when he is right, lets fight!”

First of all, they’re working on the assumption that Anakin was hiding from the Jedi. Second of all, that he was hiding from the Law(Jedi). Perhaps their memory has failed them, but I’ll provide a little breakdown of how the third movie actually went so they can understand that their initial narrative is... well, to put it plainly, ‘wrong and really wrong’.

1. Separatists vs Republic battle with Obi-Wan and Anakin going after Dooku. Dooku dies by Anakin’s hands after being disarmed (this is murder btw, rules of war mean that if your opponent loses or surrenders, then you don’t kill them -- this is generally considered a war crime). 

2. Obi-Wan and Anakin talk about stuff and then Obi-Wan heads off to chase Grievous alone. This is after Anakin has been put on the Council by Palpatine even though he’s only been a Knight for a while. The Jedi do not approve, Obi-Wan is cautious and advises Anakin to be careful (Anakin ignores him by the way and continues to be friendly with Palpatine).

4. While Obi-Wan is off after Grievous, Anakin has Palpatine’s identity revealed to him. Gets played into saving him from Mace and co in order to keep Padme alive (even though she isn’t dead by the way). Anakin then goes to the Temple with a collection of Clones and helps murder every Jedi there. He purposefully murders the children in the Council chambers. 

5. Obi-Wan is nearly killed after defeating Grievous because of Order 66. He escapes and hides. Meets up with Yoda and Bail. Goes to the Temple. Finds out that Anakin killed Jedi and is heartbroken by this fact. Then he goes to Padme after being tasked by his superior to go and defeat Anakin. He tells her the truth and she refuses to believe him.

6. Padme goes to meet with Anakin who is on Mustafar, drowning in his angst-ridden guilt of now having become an accomplice to genocide. Obi-Wan tags along, knowing that Anakin and Padme love each other so much that both would forsake their duties. He hides and Padme doesn’t know. Anakin doesn’t notice.

7. Padme rejects Anakin BEFORE Obi-Wan shows himself, because she realises he’s literally gone crazy. Then Anakin turns on Padme and chokes her into unconsciousness, even though she’s heavily pregnant and he ‘loves’ her. Obi-Wan gets Anakin to focus on him and they fight.

8. They fight to the point where Obi-Wan has the high-ground and Anakin does a stupid and gets his limbs cut off. Obi-Wan leaves him to burn to death (brutal) and goes to Padme. He takes her for treatment and instead watches one of his oldest friends die while her children are made into orphans.

9. Movie ends with Anakin becoming the giant suit version of Vader and Obi-Wan on Tattooine delivering Luke to his aunt and uncle.

Anakin isn’t evading the law, aka the Jedi, he’s killed them. Obi-Wan is the one evading the law because it wants him dead. Anakin is on Mustafar because Sidious told him to take out the Sep leadership. Padme meets him there after hearing the truth from Obi-Wan and only believes it when Anakin admits it himself. Then she rejects him. Obi-Wan does his duty as a Jedi -- sworn to destroy the Sith -- and the end is that Padme dies because Anakin loses his temper and lashes out at her.

I may be Anakin apologist but considering his situation he didn’t act out of character, id be pissed off too if i contacted my wife when i am in hiding and she brings a cop there (it seemed like that to Anakin since he didn’t know Obi-wan snuck on board) before i can explain myself to my wife

Firstly, you are an Anakin apologist and he did act out of character. His behaviour after discovering Sidious’ identity and stopping Mace from killing a Sith Lord is out of character. Anakin is a bright, kind and friendly child with a temper issue. Anakin is someone who hates injustice and despises the way some people are treated by others for no other reason than because of where they were born or who they were born to. He was a slave and then he became a Jedi; he went from victim to protector. His final character jump sent him from protector to oppressor. That’s not in character, that’s specifically cultivated and justified behaviour because he puts his own needs above absolutely everything else.

He also had the chance to explain to Padme. He didn’t deny what he did and Padme actively rejected him when she realised he wasn’t sorry for what he’d done ‘in the name of love’. You’re justifying abuse and don’t even realise it.

Think of it like this, in a galaxy where there are force powers etc shit you keep seeing horrible nightmares of your wife dying, your mother gets kidnapped by space isis and killed,             you butcher the village in retaliation and tell your wife about it, after which the greatest political figure of your “country” tells you that there is a way to save your wifes life from the faith that seems foretold (like someone offering you a cure for cancer when you think your wife has cancer),            the old dude tells you you have to do something to get the cure (equivalent would probably be extracting stem cells from kids spines or something lethal), well you love your wife and can’t let her die because love,            well you go and do the dirty deed like a loving husband would can’t let your honey bun die, now you’re kind of in hiding waiting for your old dude friend to wipe out the cops (rought shit but it will all be worth it when i save my wife from certain death),            you contact your wife and tell her to meet you in some backwater planet where you two can talk it out, you can tell her why you did it and you can finally save her from her faith, your wife finally arrives the joy we are finally together, listen wife the reason i killed the younglings is “Everybody down on the ground, the Jedi man has arrived!”,            all your efforts to get the cure, all you did in the name of saving your wife and she brings a cop to execute you (that’s what he thought and can’t blame him, how the fuck did she not know Obi-Wan snuck on board?)

Firstly, Shmi Skywalker was kidnapped and tortured by Tusken Raiders on Tattooine, not ‘Space ISIS’. The settlers on Tattooine are the proverbial invaders of a planet where the Tuskens are the natural species. So your metaphor is inaccurate and shows but a lack of understanding and also a clear desire to produce extreme sympathy for Anakin. We don’t know why the Tusken’s took Shmi but it’s generally considered unusual behaviour. We do know that they have attacked farms on Tattooine before and that they have been united by an ex-Jedi at one point when Obi-Wan was in exile. This is all we know. So you’re making an assumption that they’re evil terrorists when you don’t even have the material to back you up. 

Anakin killed an entire village of Tuskens, including women and children. There is no excuse for that. Unless you think it would be acceptable for a US soldier to execute the children in an Iraqi village because some of the inhabitants were part of Al Queda? 

Obi-Wan had already informed Anakin in Attack of the Clones that ‘dreams pass in time’ referring to Anakin’s recurring problems with his dreams about his mother. Anakin didn’t inform Obi-Wan of anything after that and so Obi-Wan has no knowledge. He tried to help, in his own way. Anakin’s behaviour and fear of what he dreamt about Padme drove him to extremes of behaviour -- the love he held for her is what destroyed him because he was so selfish as to refuse to let her go.

The dangers of attachment isn’t of falling in love, it’s in that love turning into obsession which is what happened with Anakin. Palpatine used Anakin’s fears of losing Padme to sway him into his service and with Mace’s death, sealed his fate and that of Padme. 

Do you honestly think Padme would have died had she not been choked into unconsciousness by her ‘loving’ husband on a boiling planet of death, after the revelation that her husband had willingly committed genocide because of his love for her? 

If you do then there’s no hope for you.

The dialogue of the Mustafar scene is below, read it and perhaps recognise that Anakin admits to having become obsessed with power and paranoid. Perhaps also recognise how Padme only rejects him after he says he’s going to overthrow the Chancellor and together they can rule the galaxy.

Padme: Obi-Wan told me terrible things Anakin: What things? Padme: He said, you’d turned to the Dark Side. That you... killed younglings? Anakin: Obi-Wan is trying to turn you against me Padme: He cares about us Anakin: Us? Padme: He knows. He wants to help you... Anakin, all I want is your love Anakin: Love won’t save you Padme, only my new powers can do that Padme: At what cost? You’re a good person, don’t do this! Anakin: I won’t lose you the way I lost my mother. I am becoming more powerful than any Jedi has ever dreamed of. And I’m doing it for you. To protect you Padme: Come away with me. Help me raise our child. Leave everything else behind while we still can! Anakin: Don’t you see? We don’t have to run away anymore. I have brought peace to the Republic. I am more powerful than the Chancellor. I- I can overthrow him. And together you and I can rule the galaxy. Make things the way we want them to be Padme: [backs away, shaking head] I don’t believe what I’m hearing. Obi-Wan was right, you’ve changed Anakin: I don’t want to hear any more about Obi-Wan. The Jedi turned against me, don’t you turn against me Padme: I don’t know you any more. Anakin... you’re breaking my heart. You’re going down a path I can’t follow Anakin: Because of Obi-Wan?  Padme: Because of what you’ve done! What you plan to do! Stop! Stop now! Come back! I love you! Anakin: LIAR! Padme: No! Anakin: You’re with him! You brought him here to kill me! [Starts choking HIS WIFE] Obi-Wan: Let her go Anakin!

The end of this interaction is that Padme rejects Anakin for going power-mad, Anakin admits he’s become a stranger to her and then attacks her over a perceived betrayal -- out of character for someone who at the beginning of the movie thought Padme might have been cheating on him and then APOLOGISED for thinking such things in the first place. 

In conclusion to your post that I’m not going to ever reblog, but will link here so others can read it in full, I have to say that your ending paragraph is... well, a fantastic example of selective thinking and something I daresay several of my friends from my psych classes would have had a field day with the dispositional and situational bias you exhibit.

who nearly killed Anakin and Padme? Obi-wan freaking Kenobi, well done douchebag, be sure to lie to his son that Vader killed Anakin to pit a son against his own father, Obi-wan was a fantastic space cop but an asshole friend and a person in general, dude is the reason Luke’s father is a space cyborg and Padme is a corpse, but that’s not all let’s turn their son into a space cop and tell him to kill daddy cyborg, he’ll never know it was his father, if he did this could really backfire but who gives a shit ill probs be dead by then

[candlewisps]

Frostbite883's Question: What would happen if Luke Skywalker died while he was getting fried by Darth Sidious/Palpatine in The Return of The Jedi?

 Let’s start with the dry, technical bits.

For starters I am just going to assume that Palps and/orVader have the chance to make it off the Death Star before Lando blows it tosmithereens, otherwise there wouldn’t be much to hypothesize. This in and ofitself can play out two different ways: either a) Palps gives up having theEmpire Fleet toy with the Rebel Fleet in order to mess with Luke’s head andfinally orders his forces to simply destroy them, ending the battle with theDeath Star intact, or b) Lando still blows the thing, but Palps and/or Vaderescape its destruction like Luke was able to.

Option A means the Empire is in a position to take prisoners(chiefly, Leia, Han and Co. down on Endor), and we start off more or lessscrewed in the Hope Department. It’s doubtful our heroes would be able toescape the moon-planet, and I imagine the Emperor would have them all executedin a timely fashion (there’s no need to play coy for the non-existentImperial Senate anymore, so he can execute who he wishes without consequence).There’s the possibility of him letting Leia live, as another try for areplacement apprentice, but more on that later. What I’m saying is Option Aends with everyone screwed.

Option B means the Rebel Alliance has the ~relative~ upperhand for now, but the head of the Empire is still intact and the Rebellionsadvantage won’t last for long (especially with them minus the only trainedForce user capable of taking on the Sith, as Leia remains untrained). While theEmpire retreats to lick its wounds, the Alliance has a chance to regroup andrecruit additional forces to their cause, and there may be some sort of hope inthe “Jedi” department when it comes to Leia; however, I’m extremely doubtful(more on this later). So Option B is like a 50/50 that anything can happen, butonly under certain circumstances and personal choices.

Now. Everything laid out is subject to drastic change whenyou take into account the most important variables—the characters themselves.Namely, Leia and Vader.

We’ll start with Vader, since his choices would affect thestoryline first.

If we go with the old Star Wars narrative, pre-Disney/TFA,then the generally accepted Vader mindset was that he was apathetic andresigned towards his fate as the Emperor’s loyal servant; as in, if Luke haddied then Vader would’ve more or less continued on this path, sealing his fateforevermore with no hope of redemption. If this were to be the case, then aForce-trained-Jedi-Leia definitely would not have any hope of “saving” him, asopposed to Luke. Luke used love, hope, and faith to save his father. This waswhat was required to save Anakin’s soul. Leia would not have chosen the paththat Luke did to defeating the Sith. She would’ve gone in, guns, hate, and furyblazing. Whether or not this kind of Leia would’ve been able to defeat thecombined forces of Sidious and Vader is another question.

However, if we go with the newly established canon (and old,according to who you ask) that Vader hated the Emperor with everything he had andwas looking for a plan to overthrow him at first chance, then things getinteresting. I’m going to go with the assumption that Luke died because Vaderfailed to intervene, either out of internal conflict or on purpose.

If we assume the latter, then standing back and allowingLuke to die would indicate that, while neither apathetic nor resigned, Vader’shate for the Emperor and desire to see him dead was stronger than hisconflicting emotions/love for his son. This would imply that he let Luke diebecause Luke was too weak (i.e., not embracing the power of the Dark Side) tohelp him in his quest, and now that he knows a second opportunity for saidrevenge exists (in the form of Leia), there is no point in dragging out hissons fate. He could repeat his method of attempting to recruit Leia to the DarkSide like he did Luke, only he would probably go in with higher hopes becauseLeia was already closer to the Dark then Luke ever was. So going with this,Vader would continue to play along with the Emperors wishes until such as timeas he was in a position to get to Leia. If we assume that the Rebel Fleet wasdestroyed and the Death Star intact, that would be more or less immediately, asLeia would be a captive down on Endor. If the Empire was forced to flee withits tail between its legs, it would’ve taken much longer. Either possibility isirrelevant, because Leia would never join the man who helped destroy herplanet, tortured her and the man she loves, and participated in the death ofher twin. Not gonna happen.

If we propose that Luke died simply because Vader took toolong to decide where he was going to throw in the towel, we have even morepossibilities. Option A: once he finally comes to and realizes what he hasallowed to happen, he actively loses it and attacks the Emperor with the intentto kill, still injured, but now fueled with greater rage to aid him. Dependingon if Sidious has his head back in the game or not, Vader might have theopportunity of a surprise kill (slam-dunking him down the shaft anyways) overraw power. If he succeeds, then he either claims the Empire for his own to dowhatever he would with it, or the enormity of what has happened, what he hasallowed to happen, and what he has lost come crashing down and he buckles underthe weight of it all, giving up the will to live and dying right there. Vader’swill and hatred was keeping him alive just as much as the suit was, and it’sdifficult to imagine him finding the drive to live just to seek out hisdaughter and rectify his mistakes.

Now on to Leia. One of the biggest questions in the fandomwas always “what would happen if Leia had to take on Luke’s role as the ‘lasthope’”, and the general line of thought was always that she would, indeed, takeon the mantle of Jedi and undergo the training necessary. I’ve never seen itmyself, mainly because other people don’t really seem to take Leia’s actualcharacter into account. It’s not that I don’t believe Leia would be the bombdot com as a light-side Force user, she’s more than capable, but I don’t thinkLeia would actually agree to become a Jedi in the first place—at least, not atfirst (and even then very begrudgingly).

Reason #1 she would not become the Jedi people assume: Carriehas stated that, though it wasn’t always obvious on screen, Leia was alwaysvery, very angry, and that her anger more or less fueled her despite hercollected demeanor. For me this is one of the key pieces of information we getthat tells us that Leia is truly Anakin’s daughter, whereas Luke always tookmore after Padme. In Bloodline she even says, “Sometimes I felt as if the only thing that kept me going in theaftermath of Alderaan was the strength of my hatred for Vader.” Basically,Leia lacks the ability to let go, which is not a problem or a flaw, but it is aproblem for a potential Jedi under the tutelage of Force ghosts.

Reason #2: We are operating under the assumption that Leiawould even be able to see Yoda/Obi-Wan’s Force ghosts to begin with. Somepeople put forth that one has to be both Force sensitive and Force trained tosee Force ghosts. If that were true, then Leia couldn’t undergo instructionwith them anyways as she lacks the training to see them.

Reason #3: If we assume that one needs only to beForce-sensitive, and that it is the ghosts themselves who choose who they canappear to (as I believe), then she can presumably communicate with them becausethey will eventually come to her withthe “our last hope” schpeel. And honestly? I imagine her first reaction wouldbe to tell them to fuck off, because their “guidance” and “destiny” bit justgot her brother killed (and also because she now knows that Obi-Wan trained,and was there, when Anakin underwent his journey to the Dark Side and shewouldn’t be likely to trust him knowing this). I think the only way she wouldgive them a chance, at first, is if Luke’s Force Ghost was there to convinceher to do what must be done; however, one must undergo training to become aghost, and Luke never did, so this option is highly unlikely.

Reason #4: Given everything terrible that has happened toLeia and the people she loves as a result of the Force, I imagine she wouldwant to do everything in her power to destroy the Empire/Sith her ownway before all else—which basically means continuing on with what she hasalready done (being a key leader in the Rebellion, using any political sway shemight have, etc.). While the Rebellion might eventually be victorious againstthe Empire’s forces this way, it is not going to be enough to defeatSidious/Vader. Probably only after a great many years, deep thought, andmeditating on her priorities would Leia come to see that she has to embracethis “part” of herself if she wants to see the galaxy free.

I also imagine she would’ve wanted to do anything in herpower to avoid doing something that would draw any parallels between her andher father. She would’ve wanted to stray as far as possible from doing anythingeven remotely similar to him.

All in all, I think the role of a Jedi is something Leiawould want to stay as far away from as possible. The path of Jedi led her bestfriend and newly discovered twin to his death and it started her biologicalfather on a path that destroyed not only himself, but his family and many partsof the galaxy. Misuse of the ~Force~ in general also led to the premature deathof her biological mother (via Sidious’ sinister powers) and the eventual demiseof Alderaan. When all of the personal things one knows of the Force end withdeath and destruction, one would probably give the Force the middle finger., Carrie style.

We have canon evidence to support Leia’s priorities topolitics over the Force as well. In Bloodline, we get this very delightfulconversation (one of my favorites in the whole book, actually) between Leia anda fellow Senator/friend, Tai-Lin Garr, where he actually addresses this verything. He asks her why she had chosen not to follow in her brothers footstepsand train in the ways of the Force, and questions if she ever would in thefuture. This is the excerpt:

“Did you neverconsider following in your brothers path and becoming a Jedi?”

Leia found herselfcaught short. “Why do you ask?”

“They say on my worldthat the Force sometimes runs strong in certain families…()…If that is true,then you might have the potential, just like your brother…()…If you have thatability, then I cannot imagine why you would not become a Jedi as well. SurelyI’ve known few people who would make a finer Jedi knight than you.”

Leia inclined her headin gratitude for the compliment, but she could not answer right away, becauseshe could not tell the full truth. The Force was too important a subject to beshared lightly, even with Tai-Lin, her ally and friend.

Her safe, sensible,and, as far as it went, honestreply: “My duty has always been here, in the work of creating a new and bettergovernment.”

He sighed, as if inregret. “You alone can determine your rightful destiny.”

In addition to this, we get another throwaway line whereLeia does, in fact, reminisce briefly on the fact that Luke mentored her insome meditating/focusing techniques, but that they never went beyond that. Keepin mind here that her current attitude regarding her tutelage in the Force isafter she knew that her father had become Anakin once more, and Luke is still alive, so she wouldn’t have any particularantipathy towards walking near the path of the Force. Her feelings toward theForce appear more or less neutral, but this would not be the case had Luke died,and had Vader been in any way a participant. Leia stayed away from Jeditraining because she chose to do so.

There are just far too many possibilities to this question,and every single choice leads to even more endless possibilities. But to answeryour question, “What would happen if Luke died”, in the most succinct waypossible: everything would suck, always, because a world without Luke Skywalkeris a world I would nope out of at the drop of a pin.

@frostbite883 thanks for the ask!!