#we know the tenno did it

[alteredsilicone]

"x character made a deal with Wally" is gonna become my lore theorizing pet peeve

[therewithinthestars]

ok but what is this "in every universe" thing i have going on with excal/umbra/arthur tho, bcs how did they trick me into simping over the same character three different times

[cephalon-celaeno]

update i REALLY didn’t like this quest. it’s just that usually i consider warframe to be a game with extremely competent writing and this is… hmm. not.

huh! I already knew I wouldn’t like this quest so my opinion doesn’t count but I don’t like this quest!

[infestedslime]

Look at them, they come to this place when they know they are not jolly. Tenno gift the presents, but they are mere tresspassers. Only I, santa, know the true power of the holidays. I was cut in half, destroyed, but through it's Jingle bells, the holidays called to me. It brought me here and here I was reborn. We cannot blame these creatures, they are being led by a false santa, a grinch who knows not the secrets of christmas. Behold the Tenno, come to scavenge and desecrate this north pole. My brothers, did I not tell of this day? Did I not prophesize this moment? Now, I will stop them. Now I am changed, reborn through the energy of the holiday cheer. Forever bound to the yule. Let it be known, if the Tenno want true salvation, they will lay down their coal, and wait for the baptism of my sleigh. It is time. I will teach these trespassers the redemptive power of my holoday cheer. They will learn it's simple truth. The Tenno are lost, and they will resist. But I, santa, will cleanse this place of their impurity.

[agoddamn]

@cardinalgoldenbrow not quite. Something else fell into Duviri.

Not a whole person, but a piece so significant and meaningful that it kicked off the entire paradox meltdown sequence.

The Lotus's hand.

The Lotus had enough conceptual weight to her to give the Drifter the power of the Void, a power the Lotus herself never even had. She is so strongly connected to the Tenno that she connects the Drifter to them by way of her own hand.

Why, then, wouldn't that be conceptually powerful enough to birth a denizen of Duviri?

Gender? Means nothing. Thrax is male and can be spawned from a female Drifter all the same.

Timeline? Duviri experiences time in a way that isn't linear to the Origin System. We already know this thanks to Teshin having been living in Duviri a long time by the time the Lotus's hand lands even though they fell at about the same time.

Let's look at the major beats here.

First, why is Ballas the Warden to Kullervo? "Because he's an Orokin, he's a ruler, the Drifter saw his portraits as a child!" Yeah, plausible, but by that logic Tuvul should be the Warden. Tuvul drove much of the Zariman project. His statues are all over it. The Commons are even named for him. If the Drifter were unconsciously reaching for any authority figure, it should have been Tuvul.

Speaking of authority figures, Executors don't rule Duviri. A king does. Kullervo's texts talk explicitly about Executors and other things about the Origin System in a way that doesn't match Duviri's canon. Why import Ballas as an authority figure and then demote him to Warden all while acknowledging that he ought to be an Executor?

Let's read Kullervo's story.

Hated Kullervo, did you truly believe he could love you? 

Oh, huh. Kullervo was in love with an Executor. One of the Seven. That's--rare. Who would love one of those assholes?

Kullervo's criminal trajectory is most strange. He was in love with an Executor, killed an Orokin to prove it, obeyed a direct Orokin order (why does an authority figure call this a crime?), killed someone like a mother to him--an Archimedean he was trying to rescue from Orokin custody, odd detail there--then attacked the Orokin again, then orchestrated the Night of the Naga Drums.

Man's got loyalties like a ping-pong ball, huh? Why?

The children's rhymes tell a rather different story.

An enslaved warrior torn from his mother. He was born to fight, eventually learned a truth of his birth, saw his home lost. He bursts into a rage, murders, and then kills himself.

This is much much much more straightforward. You'll notice that the children's rhymes don't mention Origin System concepts like Executors, either. Nothing about love.

Why all the complication?

Two distinct narratives, both tossing in details that beg for more elaboration. Why do this, as a writer? Why spend the voice actors' time like this?

I can only think it was done on purpose.

Two different stories, two different readings on the same person. One from Ballas, one from children.

(Huh. They say Kullervo is a friend to children, don't they?)

The Lotus lived very different lives from the perspectives of Ballas versus her Tenno.

Natah was born to war, a mimic spy with a purpose. She left her family--not by choice--and killed her fellow Sentients as the Lotus; a betrayer. She then orchestrated the Night of the Naga Drums; a betrayer twice over, the mother of a bloodbath.

Ballas sees her as a betrayer, someone who loved him and threw him away.

We see beats of Margulis's story here, too--an Archimedean that was like a mother, killed in a struggle that wouldn't have existed if not for the choice of resistance.

Kullervo isn't literally the Lotus, but I believe that he was conceptually born from her.

His stories contain the major beats of her life, only slightly twisted by perspective. Those details are so specific--in love with an Executor? Betrayed their own kind, and then their 'ruler'? A mother figure (so specific! Why not just have her as his mother?) who was an Archimedean, killed because of resisting the authority that ruled them both?

Kullervo is made up of her pieces, like a collage.

I believe that Ballas's presence and the sudden mention of Executors when that doesn't match the rest of Duviri are supposed to be clues to us that something from the Origin System has leaked in to birth Kullervo, that he is not simply an independent figure that existed in the past. When Teshin and Albrecht rolled into Duviri, they did simply that--they entered Duviri and adopted its ways while they lived there. They didn't come with an entire chapter of a story that isn't from the Duviri Tales.

Another point to Kullervo being born from Duviri is that he is treated like he exists in Duviri. Nobody says that he suddenly appeared like Albrecht or Teshin. Acrithis talks about him as if he's a part of the story. They all know his history. It's only the Warden who relates such a different history.

I think that the name Kullervo probably did exist as some minor character in the original Duviri Tales. The Drifter's subconscious applied this to the tangle of trauma that the Lotus conceptually exists as.

tl;dr Kullervotus

[hollowtones]

what'd you think about jade shadows?

I put it under a read-more because I don't know how to talk about this without talking about spoiler stuff. The tl;dr is "I liked it but I wish there was a little bit more."

One of the things I didn't like isn't even really part of the quest itself, but I saw a mutual bring it up a few days ago & it's been on my mind since: it feels a little odd to have a content warning before your sidequest, and then not give you any way to skip the quest if it's content you don't think you'd be able to handle. Especially given there's a whole event & rewards that only unlock afterwards!!

OK on to the contents of the quest itself. There's a lot of themes of love and connection and empathy in the face of systemic cruelty or indifference, in this game in general, and a lot of how that manifests is stories about characters fighting for self-determination and agency (the Ostrons trying to stay free of the Grineer, the Solaris trying to destroy the systems that keep them in debt & deny them bodily autonomy, Umbra, the Tenno, the Lotus, etc etc).

I think it's interesting to try and explore a tragedy where we aren't able to help someone in time, where the powers that be have brutalized someone and we as individuals aren't able to get there in the nick of time & help them claw their agency back. I think it's an interesting thematic & emotional through-line (with very strong parallels to Ordis... very smart choice to make him the event vendor / narrator, I'm feasting good on all the new dialogue LOL), and I think there have been enough well-written woman characters in the game that don't get written out or killed for the sake of some man's tragedy or growth that I don't immediately roll my eyes about them trying a So Sad The Woman Dies story.

I do also think this would have hit harder if we got more information about Jade herself!! I realize "this woman broke a law and was completely dehumanized / made into a Thing by the empire, stripping her of herself to suit their ends" is Kind Of The Point, and they make enough of a fuss about "wow there's a lot that's redacted about her history, huh!" that I assume this is a plot thread they're leaving hanging for later. But I feel like the big moment would have resonated better if they gave us a little more info to establish this character, other than "she was heterosexual" and "the Orokin were fucked up, don't forget" haha.

(I do find it funny that the storyline about Ballas, who got Divorced So Badly that he Caused Nearly All Of Today's Problems, is all wrapped up, but the story keeps going "no no, don't worry, there's still plenty of opportunity to remind you how fucked the Orokin were." Here's these two people that broke some insipid law about conceiving a child & so their bosses and leaders broke their brains and turned them into bio-weapon lapdogs as punishment. Every time they go "BTW Something Was Deeply Wrong With The Orokin & We Still Feel The Aftershock Of That Today" I clap my hands like a seal.)

Warframe Babies Are Born!!!!! This little tyke is fuckin weird. What's their problem. I think it's weird and cool. I don't really feel much about "this character is a parent now!" type of storylines. (I did pop off when Stalker got to do his shithead honourable samurai defending a child with one arm thing. I'm a sucker for that & they made it coooooool. It feels like they're setting up some kind of "Lone Wolf and Cub" situation. The scythe being juiced up with BabysPower was also funny.) The baby thing is neat to me from the perspective of, like... This is something weird and new that's never happened before in this universe. That's exciting and kind of scary! I'm interested to see where they go with that. (Presumably in a year or two. Very funny to drop this on us when a completely different major story arc is right around the corner with 1999.)

Gianni's delivery was fuckin killer. I'm excited for whatever next arc they do with Stalker if it means they're gonna pay my boy to grunt and yell and scream more. It feels very strange to be acquainted with two people who've done voice acting in "Warframe" now. Me next? ^_^

I like our new Corpus weirdo. I hope she comes back. Fun to get more stuff with the Sisters of Parvos & with Mr. Granum himself. But I liked her a lot. It got a fuckin laugh out of me to have her through all the quest excited about her big promotion that she's going to get & resolving that with "Is that a fuckin baby??? Fuuuuuck! They don't pay me enough to shoot a baby with a gatling gun!" I wish her ending scene was a little more than just stoically standing aside but literally anything else I can think of feels way too cheesy or on-the-nose.

The facial animations on the Operator were really fuckin weird. I just remembered that. I thought that was just a thing on my end but I watched someone else play & the faces looked weird for them too.

Hunhow's a good inclusion. I like him seeing the Stalker stewing in his own misery because he hates the only people that could offer him help & going "aw man, c'mon buster, don't be like me now." I like his signature that he puts in his emails. I like that he's still an emotionally constipated weirdo that hates us but is still endeared to us in some way. (They make nods to The New Strange in his ending email, which makes sense given that this also feels like a quest setting up More Weird Shit In The Future, but I do get a laugh that it also reads as "JADE WAS PREGNANT? OKAY... WELL. DON'T FORGET THAT I HAVE A WOMB TOO, KID." Thanks Grandpa. Love you too Grandpa. Thanks for the sweeties Grandpa.)

The event quest feels like a nice bow on top. I like the parallels between Jade and Ordis. Wanting to afford her the dignity in death he could never be given. Acknowledgement of Ordan Karris is fun!!! (The line about him being conflicted with the thought of Granum un-cephalon'ing him has me rubbing my hands together.) I'm excited that we're getting so much of Parvos Granum lately. What a shit head. It's funny to see him so hyped up about Ordan. "Duuuude! Your history's famous killer!! That's awesome? Do you wanna work for me? C'monnnnn we both hate the legacy of the Orokin. Wouldn't it be awesome if MY rule was the one dehumanizing you and wielding you as a weapon instead?" This is something they've been establishing as early as "Parvos and Ballas in bed with one another doing shady back-room deals over a Warframe bodyguard and specter particle research" but it's fun whenever they sow the seeds of Parvos being so much like the Orokin he hated.

I wrote more than I thought I was going to!!! I like the thematic through-line idea of this quest but I wish they executed on it better. I like the stuff this is presumably establishing for the future. I really like the event quest as... not quite an epilogue, I guess, but as an addition. Other than that I thought it was okay! I wasn't expecting anywhere near the level of Whispers in the Walls, but that quest being such a high bar makes a "pretty okay" quest stick out to me a little, haha.

[venture-through-the-mist]

Thoughts on The Lotus Eaters

As I’m sure is obvious, this will be discussing the Lotus Eaters quest in detail, so if you haven’t played it yet, I’d suggest skipping this post! I don’t want to spoil it for anyone (because even though it’s a short quest, I still think it benefits from being played with no prior knowledge of what it entails), so the full post will be below the cut.

Alright, I have SO many thoughts, so I’m going to try and keep this somewhat concise…ish. This is mostly just a bunch of rambles, so I apologize for any grammatical errors or if it’s hard to understand. I just kinda…wrote what came to my mind.

First off,

The Music: I briefly mentioned this in another post, but holy shit the music for this update is amazing. I mean, we all knew it would be, Warframe has a tendency to put out absolutely awesome songs, but oh my god. We get two more versions of what is one of my favorite songs in the game. The loading screen version of ‘This is What You Are’ has to be, by far, one of my favorite things I’ve heard from this game. I love the feel to it, like a combination of ‘old’ Warframe with ‘new’, 1999-era Warframe. I’ve had it playing on repeat almost all day because it’s so good.

Now, for the version of ‘This is What You Are’ that we actually get during the quest, the one that Lotus is singing to herself. I, admittedly, didn’t pay too much attention to it when I was actually playing the quest, at least not beyond “omg Lotus is singing, that’s awesome” (I was just too excited about the actual quest lol). However, when I listened to it again, I was fascinated by the subtle differences in how this version sounds compared to the ‘normal’ version of the song, or even to the new version in the loading screen. The singing is a lot more staccato, and the notes don’t flow into each other in the ways they normally would. It’s almost as if Lotus is having to concentrate more on what comes next (at least, that’s my interpretation), which makes sense given that we know that she’s singing in order to drown out the Indifference’s voice. Her singing also sounds a little sad, or maybe just lonely, to me. Her mind is filled with the Indifference trying to influence her, and she’s taken it upon herself to be a barrier (or as she says it, a “distraction”) between It and the Tenno. She’s secluded herself (again), and her tone of voice seems to reflect that.

Also, after the quest, if you go and talk to Daughter/Kaelli in the Necralisk, ‘Party of Your Lifetime’ plays now, instead of whatever song was playing before. I just think that’s neat (and also brings in some interesting ideas for 1999…what did our Drifter do?).

Moving on…

The Story: I had absolutely zero idea where the story was going to go from this update, but I was a bit worried about how they’d go about locking us into playing as the Drifter for 1999, since — although I 1000% agree with why the Drifter is definitely going to be the one going back in time — I’m definitely someone who would rather play as my Operator for my own lore reasons (and I can’t think of a reason that my Operator would let the Drifter do this instead of her). I was actually wondering if they’d actually lock us into the Drifter without giving us a choice, or if they just wouldn’t give us the option to do the romance stuff if we chose Operator (for obvious reasons…bc yk, they’re a child). But, I really enjoy the route they went down, how Lotus knows that the Drifter has to be the one this time, because if the Operator does, that might just be giving the Indifference exactly what it wants. She’s, once again, protecting her kids in the way she knows how, by taking them out of the conflict in any way she can.

But, I’m getting a bit ahead of myself, so let’s backtrack a bit and talk about how cool it is that we see the Operator and the Drifter interacting with Lotus at the same time. I may have missed something in the quests leading up to that, or this might just be something attributed to the Man in the Wall’s hijinks, or…something, but I thought that they couldn’t be in the same place at the same time/in the same ‘reality’. So, I was quite surprised (pleasantly, ofc) to see both of them. I really love the difference in the dialogue options when we initially talk to Lotus. The Operator is torn between wondering if Lotus is alright, and also being super worried about what the hell the noise is, in a way that makes me think they definitely suspect that the Indifference is meddling with things again (which makes sense, given that they’re actively in the Sanctum). Honestly, the Operator was probably waiting for something like this to happen. They know, or at least suspect, that Lotus saw the Man in the Wall after the battle with Ballas, it was only a matter of time before that became important. The Drifter, on the other hand, is more concerned with Lotus herself, warning her to be careful, reassuring her, but also wondering what she means by “It’s you��. Maybe the Drifter doesn’t really know the extent of the effects that the Indifference has on the System, maybe the Operator is just trying to protect Lotus in the only way they know how…get the perceived danger away from her first, ask questions later (I’ve noticed from their dialogue throughout the game that the Operator tends to have a bit of a sharper temper than the Drifter does…perhaps bc they’re younger). Either way, it’s nice that they have different responses to seeing Lotus and hearing the noise.

I chose the “Are you okay” and “What do you mean, ‘it’s you’?” dialogue options, and I absolutely loved that my Operator’s line was “This isn’t just a bad memory, it is? This is new”. This acknowledges, at least in my interpretation, that Lotus does have lingering emotions from everything that’s happened in the past (Ballas/The New War, Hunhow, etc). Once again, Warframe surprises me by remembering to make the trauma that a character has gone through actually relevant to the story even after we’ve dealt with the source of the problem. I probably shouldn’t be surprised at this, but most video games I’ve seen don’t tend to do that. Usually characters are…somewhat fine after experiencing something horrific, so it’s refreshing to see a different (more realistic, imo) take on it. This isn’t even the only time we see this in this quest/afterwards. Lotus outright confirms it herself (“I will not let it devour one instant of my pain. Not even Ballas. Not even the Jade Light.”), and in doing so, is also showing us how she’s dealt with the events of the prior storylines. She’s gone through a series of extremely traumatic events, and she still has those painful memories, but she’s not going to succumb to the Indifference, even if It promises to take that away. She’s been hurt, yes, but she is healing, and she’s finally in a place where she can actually do so as herself. That doesn’t mean it’s easy for her to ignore the voice that’s calling to her —the voice that only she can hear— but she’s determined to. I’m curious if the voice-lines after the quest are different if a player had chosen Margulis or Natah instead of Lotus after the New War, though.

I find it very interesting that Lotus calls the Drifter ‘my champion’. I just really enjoy the fact that she definitively sees the Operator and the Drifter as two separate people, as opposed to ‘her child’, and ‘her child but older’, because I feel like that fact could have certainly been a cause of a bit of discomfort and a learning curve for both her and the Drifter after the New War.

Now, onto the 1999 portion of the quest, which, even as short as it was, was quite interesting. It was really weird to be in the Mall again and not hear ‘Party of Your Lifetime’ playing or see other Tenno dancing around the stage (like how it was during TennoCon). It was quite eery, and I love it. Also, we got to see Kalymos again, so that’s a plus.

All in all, this quest answered a lot of my questions about how the game is going to transition to 1999 (and even answered questions that I didn’t know I had). However, I am slightly (read: very) concerned at the same time, mainly because of the line with Lotus saying “If I become something you do not recognize, do not mourn”. I feel like that’s potentially foreshadowing something…They don’t usually put lines like that in without reason. Maybe I’m just reading too far into that…but I suppose we’ll see when 1999 comes out.

Anywho, another thing that I wasn’t expecting but am really glad that we got was the continued acknowledgement of Lotus/Natah/Margulis being a system. This happened not once, but twice (to my knowledge), and I think it’s really great that they didn’t just disregard the whole “I am not one” thing from The New War after we made our choice between the three of them. It’s really nice to see that that wasn’t just a one-off line, especially as we continue to get more and more moments where the game references them.

This is already way longer than it probably should be, but what can I say? I like well-written characters, and this game has so many of them. I’ve definitely forgotten some things that I’d wanted to put in this post, but ah well.

[doekimakura]

Can we learn a bit more about Alvius and Charles?

Charles and Alvius were my old WF OCs I made at the peak of my Warframe fanboy moment. They were... vastly different characters than who they are now.

Also!! Note that I played Warframe last before Railjack so... idk shit abt new lore.

(Note: more info in alt text)

Charles LeClair

Currently, Charles is mostly-a-spy mercenary who works alone. He is extremely anxious and distrustful of everyone and seemed very feeble and weak-minded. He always acted like he doesn't want to do this whole warframe job (he really doesn't) but he is too broke to actually stop (he is.)

Apparently, some people are hunting him down. An operator and his Warframe... but he has no idea why they are hunting him down.

Charles' true passion lies in mathematics. Numbers and codes calms him down, which is why he would rather go on spy missions and/or hack consoles and steal credits from the enemy side. He is a huge number nerd to a point he is able to calculate in his head freely, enhancing control over his limbo ability (where he shifted between reality and Rift, etc.)

He doesn't tell people much about himself. The best person who knows him for who he is is Alvius, and even then the poor Nidus doesn't know much about him either. (That leads to their breakup.)

Alvius Ilidius

Alvius (he prefers to be called 'Alan' because it's shorter) is a lot of things. He is a CEO, (a nidus pretending to be) an Excalibur, and is the charming leader of the dojo 'Tera Fals.'

Alan himself is very laid back. Unlike Charles, he has a very calm and confident temperament with a sprinkle of humor. Probably passes as a himbo, but has amazing battle instincts. Likes kids! (Most Tenno are '''kids''' after all.) Don't be fooled by his human face. It's a) plastic surgery, he did it to mimic Charles and b) he's actually roughly the same age than as Charles (Like, what, ~300+ years old?) He's an old man. He probably got that face from some old earth playboy magazine, idk.

Despite his positive attitude and virtuous appearance, Alan was an experimental type of Nidus. TL;DR, an experiment where one Tenno can control 10 warframes at the same time. While he is able to walk around freely without an Operator, he was unfortunately plagued with urges of bloodlust and violence. He staves these urges by going out on extreme sports activities, missions, and using suppression medication.

Unfortunately, there are times that fearsome urge wasn't suppressed and well... let's say it caused casualties once.

...

Ok I'll tell you this, they are still in love. But with the massive baggage they're carrying that they haven't solved? That's why they aren't together at the moment.

Anyway that's all about two of my favorite characters and also one of my favorite couples.

[r0semultiverse]

[silence-of-autumn42]

So, Jade Shadows. That quest was...Interesting. I've seen a lot of negativity, and I have to be honest, I disagree with a lot of the issues people have had with the quest. Maybe this is because I wasn't obsessively hanging on to every piece of promotion for this update, but I didn't find it underwhelming, or that it was poorly handled. Did we learn everything about the Stalker? No. And I don't think we were ever going to. But what we got was a key part of why he hates Warframes, specifically, and not necessarily the Tenno as a whole.

Spoilers under the cut

So, the warframe pregnancy. The implication of the quest, to me, is that Jade and Sorren were "low guardians", non-Dax guardians of the Orokin, who had a relationship, which resulted in Jade falling pregnant. This was against the Orokin laws (although it's unclear if it was the pregnancy of a Low Guardian which was illegal, or the relationship which resulted in the pregnancy) and at least Jade was turned into a Warframe, as punishment.

Despite becoming a Warframe, Jade remained pregnant, and eventually ended up taking part in the massacre of the Orokin during the Night of the Naga Drums. Sorren was, at this time, still a Low Guardian, and his life was spared by Jade. At some point, Sorren became the Stalker (I suspect after the Night of the Naga Drums, but that's not confirmed or explicitly denied anywhere, as I'm fairly sure the Hunhow narrated diorama was a figurative memory of the event, rather than literal), and discovered Jade.

Now, we don't know what condition Jade was in when he found her. It's possible she was unconscious, especially if she had an Operator controlling her, like many other warframes, but it's also possible that she became comatose at a later point in time. So, it appears that much of the Stalker's motivations around hunting down the Tenno are intended to protect Jade from being utilised as a weapon by the Tenno, out of a sense of guilt for failing to protect her from becoming a Warframe.

So, what does it mean for a Warframe to be pregnant? We have no clue. This is the first time we know of it having happened, and so there's nothing for us to base this on. That being said, the child appears to have inherited at least some of Jade's warframe abilities, as well as her physical appearance. This suggests that at some point during gestation, the baby became infected with the Helminth strain of Infestation. Will this child grow up? No idea. Will the child be able to move autonomously? Seems so, given they were moving while being held by the Stalker. This is something we'll have to wait and see about.

By the end of it, it seems like Stalker has abandoned Hunhow, and disappeared off into the system with his child. It seems like Hunhow now has no allies, but the Stalker does seem to have taken his advice from the Reapers Lament entries on the website - to cultivate something, to raise something to prosper - his child.

Now, I will admit, the labour minigame was...odd. I don't necessarily have a problem with it, it just wasn't particularly engaging? I think that's the only problem I had with the quest. I don't know what I would have preferred, but I'm sure there was something else that could have been done there.

[xeilon]

So, bit of a theory about Lotus Eaters, since it's been confirmed that it's going to be the update that explains/decides why it's Drifter that's going back to 1999.

I think it's going to explore the difference between the Operator and Drifter that made their life turn out the way it did, so the fact that the Operator took Wallys hand while Drifter did not.

So in greek myth lotus eaters are humans living on an island and eating lotus (obviously) which makes them not want to leave and stay there forever, forget everything, become indefferent.

The lotus eaters are (i think) obviously the Tenno, the ones who follow the Lotus blindly, and it's also their biggest weakness that they look to her (their mother) to show them the way.

I think in the quest Lotus will give the Operator a mission which the Drifter disagrees with, and tells them not to go on. Operator does anyway because their mother told them to do so, and they will get in trouble and we will either need to use Drifter to save them or they save themselves but it will be painful. In the end it would be decided that the Operator could be easily mislead by both the Infestation and Wally because they trust their mother so so much, that they can be tricked by their foes if they mention her.

It could also imagine the mission being given not by the Lotus but Infestation/Wally pretending to be her, or if it was another rescue the Lotus from enemy faction quest, except the Lotus was never captured.

All of it would highlight the difference between the Drifter and the Operator, the fact that Drifter does not trust people as easily as the Operator, and that they would not be as easily manipulated by whatever awaits them in 1999.

We know that the Operator has a good heart and is willing to listen even to their enemies (Jade Shadows), but in 1999 that won't help anyone. As things stand, the enemies there might not only be the Infestation and Wally but also EVERYONE.

People are being infected, there are posters asking if your neighbour is still your neighbour or not, and in a place like that the Operators willingness to listen and trust would only lead to a catastrophy. I think both the Cavia and if the Lotus is invold she too would see that.

So in the end it would be decided that the person to go back would be the Drifter, because they are used to fighting against everyone (New War) can recognise signs of something being off (No rablit with not-Teshin) and has a history of going against the will of Mr. HighAndMighty (Wally, Dominus, Ballas).

[alteredsilicone]

Attempt at putting my feelings about Jade Shadows in a Long Post

I was never a big Stalker fangirl so I did not have any expectations or desires for this quest, I fully saw it as filler to distract me before Tennocon and the wait for Warframe 1999.

I was worried about some things, thinking DE might add/retcon lore about the Rebellion and Night of the Naga Drums, but that didn't happen haha

The quest itself did not elicit an emotional response from me, at some points it even seemed weird and absurd. They really went there, huh?

I see now that there is a LOT of tension and opinion flinging and accusations and such and such and I also fell victim to getting maybe a little bit too angry and incensed.

To me, the hype didn't live up to the payoff, this is basically Angels of the Zariman 2.0 for me. Where I expected one thing (Tenno Rebellion, Stalker lore) but got something else (Warframe Baby). I feel this is the kind of quest that expected me to have one specific emotional reaction ("aww!") so it didn't try to... elicit that reaction. Sympathy-bait. Like showing a little kitten to make you "aww" and stop thinking. If you don't "aww" then you won't like it but the people who "aww"-ed will think you are a heartless weirdo.

Some people have pointed out how this quest actually makes Stalker's anger at Tenno make less sense due to the Orokin being at 100% fault for his circumstances and the Tenno killing the Orokin should not have been something Stalker objects to. Honestly if you're going to kill Jade off and give Stalker dead wife manpain could have at least made our Tenno responsible for killing Jade who was guarding Stalker/the Orokin.

My hot take is that yes, people who expected an LGBT/trans story were setting themselves up for failure because there were no hints to that, quite the contrary. I got the impression that Stalker and Jade are separate entities (so no trans narrative) and also knowing tropes it just seemed like it was going the love-story way. Opposites attract and all that, plus Warframe's queer themes are more... headcanoned by the community; aside from obvious story beats like WITW or Dagath's story. Warframe in the end appeals to a Broad (tm) audience and that includes cishet normies who will cry buckets at Single Dad Stalker. Which is happening right now and making me feel like a heartless weirdo.

Though I think it would have been fun if Jade was Stalker's mother, that would fit well with the opposites theme for Jade/Stalker (and him taking on his mother's mantle as protector), as well as create cool parallels with the Stalker and Tenno, after all, "Lotus" is basically the aesthetic of the Tenno, so "Jade' could be the aesthetic of the Stalker.

Oh well.

I also understand people who were disturbed and upset by the narrative in general and the criticisms of Jade being fridged, passive and the implications that you "Always Choose the Baby" and that "All Women Love Babies". The bit with the Corpus captain and seeing people go "the Corpus are not monsters after all!" made me cringe because... we are child soldiers piloting infested abominations; Warframe is a very grim universe with some moments of light at the end of the tunnel, but I think this particular narrative was handled poorly. You're telling me in the world where body hoppers snatch children to brain-break them and become parasitic hosts, children's lives are valuable? You're telling me in a world where ventkids exist, children's lives are valuable? Nelīmējas kopā.

You COULD make this a story of light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel in terms of a child's life being precious - we should have fought the Corpus, maybe the Tenno jump in as help to protect Stalker. Putting a newborn into danger? Now THAT is actually some risky storytelling AND would make me care about Stalker and Sirius. You want that kid? Fight for it, because the world hates you and hates your kid. LOVE MUST TRIUMPH HATE, isn't that what Hunhow tried to tell you?

I don't hate it because it was a straight love/parenting story - Umbra and Isaah is a very emotional story and the Sacrifice is one of my favorite quests. All I needed was more backstory/flashbacks on Jade and Sorren. Aside from a vague allusion that either their relationship or Jade's pregnancy was verboten.

I admit the pregnancy/motherhood angle made me incensed for biased/personal reasons but I am just going to take the L on that, I don't think people who criticize that or are disappointed by that story are lacking media literacy.

Pregnancy IS a sensitive/triggering topic and in fact this quest did not warn sufficiently about it, also it is fair to say that this quest relied on the "aww!" factor and it's fine if people find it cheap. Some people find "aww!" stories stupid if it's about animals or if there are "pet the dog" mechanics, but if it's human children suddenly that criticism is invalid.

Oh well. That is all.

tl;dr

Did not have huge expectations going in, neutral on Stalker as a character.

Was not happy about the pregnancy story/the way women were handled in this quest.

I am aware that my personal bias affects my view of this quest, but I would also like a little coming forward from the other side.

Anyone else "excited" for Fetus Prime trailer narrated by Ballas in four years?

[vuetyris]

Jade Shadows related thoughts tm

For context; fandom active since 2016, with various hc & fics

I record all my first runs in case I miss anything or need to refamiliarize myself, but in brief I like it for what it is. Would've liked a more direct content warning than just 'motherhood' which can include a VARIETY of things.

But especially as someone critical on DE's tendency with smaller stories (and hoping between mediums of story telling), I went in with no expectations besides it being Stalker related. That whatever happens doesn't conflict with personal hcs, they can split off etc, and did not share an expectation that it'd be lgbt+ rep JUST off the expectation of it being released during pride month. Feels unhealthy to go into it expecting a certain outcome from a big company's story telling, especially on the premise of release timing. Just icing on the cake if it is :)

Historically DE has issue with smaller scale stories; they have high ambitions and not a lot of restrictions where they put their resources. From the Simaris Scans, the Prime logs, the various scanning stories, EVEN NIGHTWAVE, which has only to date had three story sets. There's a lot of crumbs of their ideas that don't work or aren't able to work on in a constant rhythm. So not just tooting my horn that "DE is trying their best with what they got", they fumble constantly, and their limits just happen to only be "what resources (money, time, and people) do we have".

I still remember them wanting to do Railjack and TNW all in ONE PACKAGE, in ONE UPDATE, before the pandemic kicked them in the ass.

Again before tangent of historic context; I liked Jade Shadows for what it was, a brief three mission jaunt around as the Stalker. Whom for all intensive purpose of the story is not shown to be very caring of others, and in context at the point out for the tenno for the slaughter. Jade gives context for why Stalker is like that TM; Stalker is selfish, self-serving, unwilling to ask for help, and the only person that spoke up was the Old War Relic that fed his daughter to the Orokin and did nothing to stop his son from succumbing to the same fate by the same man.

Hunhow and Stalker both have issues and it kinda feeds off one another, and Jade didn't deserve the double-wammy. Its a dark story brought of the world ruined by the Orokin and their colonizing empire that ripped up ever resource they could before setting the Sentients out whom they built to be rued of their reproduction if they traveled back through the void. Body autonomy and societal abuses has been a constant theme throughout warframe, and that means sometimes its uncomfortable! That's good! Fiction is a tool to analyze the uncomfortable spaces in a safe manner, and allow the viewer to step away if they need to.

Was it done well? No, it has room for improvement, it could've involved Jade more as an active role instead of just relegated to Stalker's manpain, but its done better than other media who sole purpose from the get-go is some dude's mainpain. Relegated to the end was that Jade and Sorren were both seemingly glad for it, but there was a hesitancy alike to Dagath's situation. It wasn't socially -allowed-, and may or may not be in relation to why they were both transformed to warframes. And may be what was referred to before of Stalker being a 'low guardian'. We may not, or may never, know his mental state at the time, but the weight of the Orokin empire still hung over him as the system changed.

I wish there was more of Jade than just having her laying there as a story piece honestly :( More of her relation to Sorren, why she still stayed with him, more than just as a vessel for the story, you know, give more oofm to the ending of her becoming one of the jade light and a techno-organic baby left in her wake. Her relation to Stalker after the war where she had to save his ass from a default Excalibur. But we didn't and I'm sad. :(

AS FOR the labor section; preempting with how operator got wrapped up in the situation by Stalker coming in and demanding help by the end of his scythe; the circumstances forced to comply just like how the Orokin would do before with others. Stalker is just the same as the 'golden lords', replicating the same cycle of abuse that society saw as normal.

Did I like the thought of teenage character being subjected to the outcome of the events of: society defying pregnancy -> body transformed to a low guardian as punishment -> (potential implications of depending on an abusive system for support, akin to military service to access health care and financial support where if you did not engage you aren't allowed to access) -> Death of the terrible system of oppressive and colonial Orokin empire -> Unwilling to change for the changing society, and unwilling to engage with other victims of the same exact system -> Prolonged inaccessibility to the necessary care to survive a difficult pregnancy until the very last moment?

No; I would've preferred the Drifter if it had to be engaged with, at least in the touchy aspect of child/teenager + pregnancy/labor. It at LEAST has the detachment that they're not actively going through it, it doesn't come with the specific body-autonomy horror of carrying another life to term - which is something I would've preferred more.

BUT CONSIDERING, how within USAmerica legislators have been stripping that same body autonomy from afab people, allowing far worse to happen than just "press button to go into labor" its good to have such difficult topics handled! Because shaming it, disallowing conversations around it, or even shaming the 'thought' around even the briefest of acknowledgement, is no better than the pro/anti fandom bullshit that are two extremes of tolerance or intolerance.

As a story beat it stripped both the player and the operator of body autonomy for that ONE moment; an operator that had put a brief trust in helping the Stalker, to help a warframe with an affliction they had no idea of going in.

And, said as personally, as uncomfortable as it may be, it also speaks into the moment of an adult coercion of a child or teenager. He walks in and asks for help with a scythe aimed at the person they ask for help, it's not a plea, its a demand, to which the details are never discussed. Especially under a guise of 'don't want to say no' isn't easy to get across in a quick way within dialogue, so they leave it to interruption. And so has to go along with it, no matter what happens, and it just end with an astral projection event of the results of such a predicament.

It's a dense cluster of subject matter that is hard to get across, and if it resonates or not, tasteful or not, its handled in a delicate way that other media would just fuck up with majorly.

I'm not touching the fandom built expectation that i'd be yoai. That's on ya'll getting riled up after witw and wanting token instead of what warframe has already been doing. LGBT+ as people instead of tallies.

[hippie-koldun]

Jade Shadows spoilers! And some thoughts

After completing the quest, I had several questions, because at first it seemed to me that this story breaks the plot a little

But my friends and I figured it out a little and tried to explain some of the details that confused us

First question: what is the Stalker’s motivation then?

At first we thought he was just a character with PTSD who saw the massacre where his Overlords died. But now it seems like he doesn't give a damn about it because he has bigger problems to worry about, and that's Jade

At the beginning of the quest we were told that Jade saved him. Could she have been seriously injured by this? Could the Tenno have hurt her? This makes sense since we find her sick and almost dying

So it seems to me that the Stalker is taking revenge on the Tenno for the dying state of his wife, and this is the case

Second question: how did she give birth to the child?

Due to infection, Warframe physiology differs significantly from that of humans. The belly through which we see the baby inside Jade is more likely to be some kind of placenta. Perhaps this is one of the placenta mutations? Since we know she was pregnant before she became a Warframe. It's very strangely shown in the quest, but this temporary organ is always easy to cut, so...

The third question(s): how did the child survive after so many years? How was he not born earlier? How did he not die when infected?

The following is purely my speculation. It seems to me that infection allows to slow down absolutely everything in the physiology of Warframes, and development will be no exception. Jade could be carrying this child, and thereby he was pumping out her vitality...

Very often, the infection of the mother is transmitted to the child if she, for example, smoked, drank or took drugs. Often he mutates inside her, and sometimes dies. Helminth is a very situational thing. It drives crazy and prevents systems from working comfortably

A normal human fetus, even before its birth, became infected with a helminth, became covered with iron in the womb, and I think this is quite logical? In one of the scenarios, he would have died...

In fact, I liked the quest, it reveals the feeling even closer: fatherhood. At first I thought that this quest was about lovers, but the result just killed me (positively)

[tauforged]

TIPS FOR NEW USERS COMING FROM REDDIT!!

Look at them, they come to this place when they know they are not pure.

Tenno use the keys, but they are mere trespassers.

Only I, Vor, know the true power of the Void.

I was cut in half,

destroyed,

but through its Janus Key, the Void called to me. It brought me here and here I was reborn.

We cannot blame these creatures, they are being led by a false prophet, an impostor who knows not the secrets of the Void.

Behold the Tenno, come to scavenge and desecrate this sacred realm.

My brothers, did I not tell of this day? Did I not prophesize this moment?

Now, I will stop them. Now I am changed, reborn through the energy of the Janus Key. Forever bound to the Void.

Let it be known, if the Tenno want true salvation, they will lay down their arms, and wait for the baptism of my Janus key.

It is time.

I will teach these trespassers the redemptive power of my Janus key.

They will learn it's simple truth.

The Tenno are lost, and they will resist. But I, Vor, will cleanse this place of their impurity

[eve-be-sleep-deprived]

I love the environmental storytelling in the Zariman tileset. So many vignettes, so many scenes, so many stories left laying where they concluded centuries ago. Take this one lone stool as an example.

It is the only stool in the brig complex that's in front of one of the cells.

Who was in that cell, and who was it that stayed with them to the very end? Who were they? Lovers? Family? Friends? Are they still in the cell? What would we find if we opened it, bones? Would the person still be alive in some sort of stasis... I wanna know, and it's all because some goober put a stool down in just the right place.

It's why the Zariman tiles are just fundamentally creepy. They were once crawling with life, and in a flash... they weren't. Food is still strewn across the floors supplies left untouched. How many of those camps were made by the Tenno, how many by the adults? How quickly did the Orokin flush the children out when they were finally discovered?

So many questions without substantive answers.

All because of a god damn stool