#we could have had an interaction with him and lady nagant her pushing him to the idea that killing twice was wrong

[bibibbon]

I've seen a take where you say that Hawks thinks he didn't have a choice and HAD to kill Twice, and you mention in ( ) that he actually DID have a choice and that confuses me.

Hawks gave Twice TWO chances to change and go with Hawks and leave the LOV behind him and change his way of life and when he refused BOTH chances, he posed as a potential (MASSIVE) threat to the hero's, so Hawks had to kill him so he wouldn't risk others lives.

So, with my maybe-not-very-analysed take, why do you think this? Have I missed a crucial part of his character? Did he actually have any other options? And how different would they be then what he ended up doing?

I am assuming you're talking about this paragraph from one of my posts about Hawks👇

Now it is true that Hawk's did indeed give Twice two (possibly 3) chances to back down and surrender. The first time it happens is when Hawk's corners twice, with all the feathers pointing at twice, ready to strike him, saying that he shouldn't resist and come calmly. The second time is when Hawk's explains his reasoning for offering twice this chance, and the 3rd is after Hawk's killed the first set of twice clones and reaches out saying that there's a way forward if he comes calmly and that he would personally help twice start over after he gets punished for his crimes.

However, I still think there's an interesting way in how Hawk's approaches Twice. He doesn't choose to position his feathers far away, but he quite literally corners him, almost trapping Twice in one place and offering him one option which is to surrender himself and come quietly or else. Now, while from an incredibly detached prespective this may seem as a mercy option that Twice should be grateful for I think that there needs to be acknowledgement as to how Hawk's own hpsc teachings and hero experiences have shaped him in approaching a situation like this and before Hawk's offers anything to Twice he feels and acts on the urge to be in control to be above Twice in this conversation to make sure that he has more power. All of this is summed up to Hawk's experiences, and we see how this is a flaw because in reality Hawk's is an incredibly fast man he did not need to corner Twice in such a way and essentially give him one option he could have approached the situation differently (yes it doesn't mean that he would have succeeded but there's still a point to be made in the way Hawk's approached the situation from the beginning)

When horikoshi first introduces Hawk's to us in the series, he makes it a very clear point that Hawk's is fast and that he is a powerful hero.

Hawk's is fast in every sense of the word,he is shown to quickly climb up the ranks at an incredible speed becoming the number 3 hero, he is fast enough to stop a criminal without batting an eye, he is fast enough to evacuate everyone from a falling building and to try and stabilise the building. Hawk's is also quick in being able to mentally recognise what's going on and quickly act on it. With the series reinforcing this message consistently it seems weird for Hawk's to not be fast enough to knock twice out instead going for the kill.

Now you can chalk this up to a writing mistake or an ooc moment, but I personally think there is symbolism in it. Hawk's failure concerning the MVA was foreshadowed the moment he came into play and said "I am too late" this to me shows the small downward spiral that Hawk's is then sent to by the narrative. It's essentially tragic that the fastest hero or man was too late or too slow to stop tragedy from occurring. In other words, Hawk's heavily reminds me of minato namikaze from Naruto.

@doodlegirl1998 even points this out

So, how does this link into Hawk's killing twice, you might ask?

Horikoshi establishing that Hawk's main trait is his speed and agility highlights (to me) the ability that Hawk's had to simply knock Twice out and get him out of the area.

Again, this didn't occur due to the tragedy and reoccurring theme of the fastest hero being too late. Hawk's was too late to apprehend Twice, he was too late in escaping from Dabi's flames. He was too late in many things, and it resulted in horrible consequences.

However, while this string of events is played for the tragic irony, it also highlights just how corrupted Hawk's has become by the hpsc teachings and how he at the end of the day is still a bird trapped in a cage both mentally and physically. This is because you can clearly tell throughout that scene that Hawk's doesn't really want to kill twice. He keeps on bringing the fact that Twice is a good man at heart and that he believes that Twice can be redeemed, but after Twice's rejection, he believes that he must kill him saying that he didn't come this far for mere sentiment to trip him up.

However, even with that being said, when fighting Twice Hawk's doesn't aim to kill him. He could have. He had Twice cornered. He could have killed him in one hit but didn't because he couldn't because mere sentiment was indeed tripping him up and he was so clearly trying to justify his actions, trying to be logical but failing. This is further highlighted when Hawk's ends up saving both himself and Twice from Dabi's flames in chapter 266. Hawk's didn't want to kill Twice but after a string of events, he believed that it was the only way to resort to his hpsc teachings.

Personally, I believe the brief fight between them heavily shows Hawk's internal struggle with his own beliefs, his own desires to save as a hero, and actually help all of that clashing with his hpsc teachings and the belief that killing Twice would be easier and safer.

Hawk's ending up killing Twice narratively shows us the failings of the system and could have been great in showing us Hawk's further questioning the system he feels trapped in and straying fat from it as he does end up acknowledging in the final arc that jin was a good man (I think it's symbolic that he calls him by his citizen name and not villain one) and it could build up to him creating a completely different one but alas that fails due to various reasons which are too long for me to list out.

[quirkwizard]

This maybe an odd question but the idea randomly popped into my head and I just wanted to get your thoughts. So AFO can “seemingly” transfer a quirks into a single person without modification, as we see with wolfram in the first movie. So if AFO could give one extra quirk to each of the LOV members (that he had access to) who do you think he would likely give what quirk?

I mean, we know he can do that, at least to some extent. Lady Nagant is a canon example of that. We just don’t know if there are any other limits on it. That aside, I’m going to be counting any of the Nomu’s Quirks since those count as Quirks All For One had access to.

Magne - Spearlike Bones: Considering that Magne’s main strategy is pulling people towards the magnet hammer, adding the bones could be a pretty nasty follow up.

Muscular – Power: While there could be a lot of Quirks that work with his Quirk, Muscular is such a meathead that I struggle to think of any that he’d use well. So I doubled down and gave him another meathead Quirk.

Mustard - Air Cannon: This would be pretty useful in spreading out Mustard’s gas, especially if he’s able to combine the two to fire off blasts of sleep gas. Plus he could push his own gas away from himself if he needed to.

Tomura - Transforming Arms: Not only could this extend Tomura’s reach with his hands, but it could give him more opportunities to use his Quirk by dividing his arms into more hands, greatly extending his threat range when used with "Decay".

Kurogiri - Shock Absorption: While Kurogiri has a good defense with his portals, he still gets damaged and knocked around a lot. Every fight he was in ended up with him knocked down. So adding some extra defensive measures should help keep that from happening.

Spinner - Muscle Augmentation: Almost any Quirk would be better for Spinner than "Gecko". I just decided to go with "Muscle Augmentation" since that worked best with his close quarters fighting style. That and the idea of a giant, ripped Spinner is funny to me.

Twice - Super Regeneration: This is working with the assumption that any doubles of Twice would have his Quirk as well. If that is the case, then "Super Regeneration" could help alleviate some of the durability issues that his copies have. If not, then perhaps "Storage" to help move people around.

Dabi – Wings: I was tempted to give him "Super Regeneration", but I think that the damage from the blue flames is so serious that it wouldn’t help him. I decided to instead go with countering his other weakness, that being his poor mobility. With "Wings", he would be able to get around far more easily. That and it could give him a sick devil motif.

Himiko - Tongue Web: I know this sounds gross, but it’s one of the best possible combinations. Considering that the tongue seems to harden, and it extends her range, she could get multiple blood samples at a time, and it would be far easier to pull off then it would be normally. It would be like the world’s most messed up bendy straw.

Mr. Compress – Rivet Stab: This is another odd one. I want to give him "Rivet Stab". As seen with All For One, it can extend the range of contact Quirks like "Forced Quirk Activation", so it should work with "Compress". Though I’m not one hundred percent certain if that interaction would work. If not, "Springlike Limbs" could work well with his natural agility and help keep his hands out of harm’s way.

[fedzkun]

Villain Hunt Arc Meta: All For One’s Horrific Guide to Methodically Breaking Down Your Local OFA Holder

Ft. Turning the ‘Overpoweredness’ of OFA into a Setback, and AFO’s Successful Manipulations Of Midoriya Izuku

In which I also give AFO too much credit for all the pain he’s probably caused, and theorize that his plans to break Izuku actually started getting enacted even before he’d escaped Tartarus.

(A.k.a. me loving the angst because this is really good angst writing, but also hating it because the manga doesn’t come with a Angst with A Happy Ending tag unless you count Izuku’s ‘this is the story of how I became the greatest hero’ which isn’t really a guarantee of happiness )

So. What an arc! In the span of ten chapters (starting from the end of the War arc) Hori delivered a full-on Villain-looking, Vigilante Midoriya Izuku. Congratulations, Horikoshi, for finally introducing Akatani Mikumo!

The fast pacing and lack of breather panels are so fitting for this arc truly. AFO never gave them a moment’s rest. Yes, from henceforth as he’d promised... It’s always going to be his turn.

Izuku is making amazing progress with unlocking the full power of One For All. In his words, his abilities might as well already be on par with what a healthier All Might could do, and with no recoil to boot. Plus, there’s only one last quirk to unlock. For villain fights, I don’t think we need to worry about him losing, or him breaking anymore bones at this time.

Which, some might argue, makes Izuku too ‘OP.’

To start with, I want to talk first about the ‘overpoweredness’ of the One For All quirk. It’s a wonderful quirk truly, having inspired and amazed so many because of its sheer power. Used well, it could grant instant victories and restore the people’s wavering faith to the heroes. Because with a quirk like that on your side, everything’s going to be alright, right? There’s always gonna be that bit of hope that something is still strong enough to stand against the looming evil...right?

Yeah. That’s what the people who’d lived under All Might’s Era of Peace thought so too. History repeats.

OFA’s ‘OP-ness’ is both a great blessing and a great burden.

Here are some points on how the narrative has made OFA's 'overpoweredness' a setback:

1. All For One—that bastard—exploits the urge that comes with OFA. Just as ‘AFO the quirk’s’ goal is to steal OFA, OFA’s job is to defeat AFO, and Izuku is sacrificing himself to its cause.

Here’s another thing I want to point out: The conclusion that the heroes drew about AFO planning to capture Midoriya Izuku alive? In rereading, I’m starting to believe it’s nothing but a mere assumption of his plans. Aside from the deal made with Lady Nagant—of which I think AFO didn’t take seriously anyway and set her up for failure— (and while we as readers are already aware of his true intentions to wear Izuku down) it’s weird that nowhere had AFO directly mentioned to Izuku that he’s going to kidnap him and take his quirk from him.

2. OFA made Izuku so brilliant (e.g. Pros and former Pros alike going “This kid...”) that they really can't help but place all their hopes on him. Sighs. In an ideal world, this would be a dream come true of Izuku getting his due credit for all his heroic achievements Pro heroes have started to do to Izuku what they’ve done all their lives to All Might--which is to put him on the pedestal, while they fall back to cover him like guards/safety net. Hence, falling back to the One Pillar Model mindset.

3. OFA makes Izuku untouchable, not only to the villains, but also to his allies. Prime material to reinforce isolation. And if Izuku doesn't want to be caught, he won't make it easy for either side.

4. OFA IS SUS AF, OKAY? What are the Holders doing?! While gaining access to them makes it easier and convenient to have personal trainers in handling OFA, the vestiges prove to add a lot to Izuku’s mental load. If they’d allowed Izuku to come to the point of being caked with blood and filth, they’re not doing very well at guiding him. Realize that most of their arc interactions with Izuku is Quirk Talk. They, of all people, should know how AFO’s machinations work! Hey First, for the love of god, warn Izuku! He’s showing so many signs of being manipulated that you should be picking up on. please /sobs ;;

Tbf, like, I’m pretty sure that the Holders haven’t been as mentally okay either, which would feed into Izuku’s current mindset.

Now that the setbacks have been listed, let’s dive in to AFO’s plans to toy with Midoriya Izuku.

PHASE 1: Pre-Tartarus Breakout

Speaking of OFA being sus, there’s something that has been niggling at the back of my mind.

All For One basically tells Izuku: “You were my main interest that entire time I was in prison”. So, to pass the time in Tartarus (since he can’t use any(?) of his quirks), AFO has been doing nothing but apparently daydreaming and designing a personal hell for the Ninth Holder during that entire period. HOWEVER, it also made me wonder…

…Even before he’d broken out, had AFO made any moves at all in enacting his plans to break Izuku?

Yeah?

And here’s the kicker: he says that before Blackwhip bursted out.

AFO is a master manipulator. Assuming that Izuku doesn’t have any latent AFO quirk (for whatever reason *coughs* maybe dfo if you're a believer) or that Quirk Singularity has anything to do with it, what is the trigger to Izuku suddenly having access to Blackwhip?

I’d argue that it is All For One himself.

Why? What’s his goal? If you notice during the Joint Training arc, Izuku is feeling pretty confident about his progress. He’s rather happy and feeling blessed, and he is making leaps and bounds with base power OFA.

AFO can’t have that. He can’t allow the Ninth Holder to become too emotionally stable, or else he’d have a stronger will. So by somehow activating Blackwhip, AFO makes Izuku feel like he hasn’t made any progress with his quirk at all. During the evaluations, Izuku mentions that he still needs a lot to work on, and while not all of it is visible, with the way he behaves, it’s pretty evident that his self-confidence has taken a rather large hit.

But, wait! If AFO had tampered with OFA during the JT arc, paving the way to unlocking the rest (like he’d also done during the War arc when he tried to ‘steal’ it then), then wouldn’t AFO be sabotaging himself since he’d be making Izuku a more formidable opponent?

Sure. Except that the quirks inside OFA are mostly useless when it comes to the mental part of the fighting. The only thing they’re useful for is for the current Holder to be able to play keep-away in the physical realm. And AFO could easily just find counters for those through his work on Tomura.

You know how else the situation becomes advantageous for AFO? With every quirk unlocked, Izuku’s goalposts keep on getting away from him, and Izuku will always feel like he isn’t ready or prepared enough. Izuku will push and push himself to master OFA to its fullest, to become more powerful, at the cost of his mental/emotional stability and physical wellbeing as he wears himself down.

And every time Izuku grew more powerful, and became more ‘OP,’ he is burdened with all the aforementioned setbacks that came with it. He could be the most powerful person in the world, but it’s all for naught if he doesn’t take care of himself. This plan is both a high risk and high reward on AFO’s part, and as of the moment, with a bloody Izuku staggering all over, AFO is visibly reaping these high rewards.

PHASE 2: Post-Tartarus Breakout

He’s going to toy with Izuku until Izuku fucking breaks. What follows is his series of actions that instills the desired responses from Midoriya Izuku. Let’s see how the master manipulator plays this game of chess, shall we?

Izuku’s plan: Reach out to villains and try to save them.

AFO’s counter: Kill off those who turn their back against villainy and/or acknowledge Izuku as a true hero.

Izuku’s resulting response: Stop reaching out to villains. Gain an instant victory and move on.

After all, what do you get when you block a hero from showing sympathy? You get an unfeeling living weapon.

---

Izuku’s plan: Work with the top pro heroes to bring down AFO.

AFO’s counter: Make plans that will serve to highlight how the top pros are just slowing Izuku down. (e.g. Making moves while it’s raining, so as to divide them, but also to bring out No. 1 Hero Endeavor’s "slowness" in the rain. Nope, I don’t think that’s a throwaway line at all.)

Izuku’s resulting response: Grows more reckless, often leading the charge.

---

Izuku’s plan: Track AFO down.

AFO’s counter: Lead them to dead-ends. Or when they do supposedly reach something, endanger them.

Izuku’s resulting response: His tunnel vision worsens, as he grows more desperate.

---

Izuku’s plan: All Might following him around is okay since it would help All Might from worrying so much, and Izuku could simultaneously keep an eye on and protect All Might.

AFO’s counters: There are a lot to really fuck with this bond, damn you AFO.

Taint that passing the torch memory of ‘You’re Next.’

Declare that All Might no longer interests him. Liar. He outright stated before that he’s one for keeping a grudge

Send another assassin to Izuku [Underlying Message: You yourself are a walking danger zone to those whom you dearly care for.]

Izuku’s resulting response:

Interpret that memory of ‘You’re Next’ as taking up the position of being AFO’s shiny new plaything, and therefore supposedly sparing All Might from the torment (Unfortunately, making Izuku push AM away is just part of the torment ;A;)

Think that AM is no longer in the direct line of fire as long as AFO focuses on Izuku

Finally, push his last line of morale support away, and completely isolate himself.

Btw, I wonder how All Might feels about Izuku using Nana's quirk to get away from him.

---

The suffering doesn’t end.

Izuku’s plan: Save people.

AFO’s counters: (possibly offscreen) Send more villains and assassins to torment Izuku some more with the knowledge that he can’t save them. Sending villains out also puts innocents in danger.

Izuku’s resulting response: He won’t stop for anything. He won’t sleep, won’t eat, won’t slow down. He will always do his best to save as long as someone is in danger.

His body will keep on moving and moving and MOVING on its own.

--- All For One is very effective as a supervillain. He has managed to make the heroes think that his only goal is to capture Izuku alive for his quirk. He has Izuku right where he wants him: dancing to his tune at the palm of his hand, utterly toyed with, left with no escape in sight.

Psychologically vaulted.

.

.

.

PHASE 3

And so, if Izuku is being manipulated to drive himself further and further into self-destruction, what then is there left for All For One to do?

So much more. Because, my god, I think AFO has mastered the art of traumatizing the OFA Holders.

All For One once told All Might, “I will destroy all that you’ve protected.” And boy, is he delivering. He's definitely not done with AM btw.

First, he destroys All Might's image. And he is manipulating Izuku to drive himself to that point. To looking into his absolute worst.

And when that point arrives, AFO will hammer the final nail home.

Something like...

BEHOLD

JAPAN’S SYMBOL OF PEACE.

And oh, how it'll hurt. To see All Might's pride and joy be flaunted about as looking nothing like a hero to the masses, for him to be so utterly humiliated.

"See what I did to All Might's successor."

AFO will be banking upon the possibility that the angry masses will not want to be saved by whom they're tricked into viewing as someone that's the cause of all the pain. Izuku might have the willpower to stay true to his resolve, but with him on the verge of total breakdown, what would happen when he is shunned by the very people he is trying to help?

I once wrote a post about how the current events seem to be a bastardization of Izuku's wildest fantasies: he's working with the top pros, he has the most powerful quirk, and he's working with All Might (whom technically acts as a sidekick to him rn).

AFO has warped all that into a never-ending nightmare. And Izuku...

Izuku is really in need of saving.

Last thoughts:

Let me just say that it shouldn't be a competition about who gets to get through to Izuku. Right now, he’s gonna need all the help he can get, and it can’t be delivered by only one or two people. Saving Izuku is going to be a team effort, a solid support system that sees Izuku as their classmate/friend/student/actual person that they care about. And there’s sufficient space for that.

More hands reaching out means more chances to catch him if he falls.

[transhawks]

why do i have a feeling hawks and nagant don't actually have a relation to speak of whatsoever... Like currently it looks like she's the blueprint of all the stuff that could happen to him if he was rebellious that he knew of at like a hearsay level and one he tried to work his way around by seeming passive agressive... Like she looks just as isolated as hawks does ie rip both of them had no significant pacts outside the one with the hpsc

After this chapter, I'm /slightly/ inclined to agree but I think it's complicated on Hawks's end. I think they met once or twice, but more so Lady Nagant would have had a very big impression on Hawks's life and future career.

First off, @scarletrain1724 has a meta somewhere noting the gestures Hawks and Nagant exhibit are quite similar. It could be HPSC training to make them more approachable, but also it can be Hawks modeling himself early on an "model" hero (for him).

Two, I think the chapter shows at most she's in her early thirties and here's why. We see her in a seifuku uniform in a flash, which are more typically worn by junior high school students than high school ones (this is how we know initially PopStep was a middle school student and is now a senior in Vigilantes).

But take a look at this flashback:

That's the commission president! Missing some wrinkles! And yet just seeing that, and there have been people who have rightfully pointed out that Horikoshi reserves wrinkles for women over 40 typically, it's really clear that she's likely in in her thirties.

So Nagant is anywhere from 12 to 15 in this picture. Just going by how she looks, President is in her 40s or 50s. It's likely been twenty years since then. She probably spent ten years or so under them.

Hawks was bought by the Commission somewhere around 17-15 years ago. What this is means is that Hawks, as a child, would have been the age to meet her, likely, and she would have just been starting as a hero. There might be have been interactions! But more interesting than that is what it means for Hawks to have grown up in the Commission after she killed the boss and defected. Just going by the calculations here, he was likely a tween when she did this, and I think that Hawks's life probably changed.

An asset like Nagant going rogue and throwing away her training and loyalty would have made anyone very paranoid. I'm guessing they had to completely reevaluate the way they treated assets like her in hindsight. Hawks was in the pipeline so perhaps they were even stricter in limiting his agency, but also made sure he was incredibly dependent on them. They, of course, had an advantage in taking Keigo when he was very young, seven at most, and the fact his childhood was so traumatic at that point that he didn't have an identity outside of a hero one created for him by the Commission. I also don't think Keigo was used like Nagant to kill people - at least not in this large numbers. Lady Nagant's clearly a popular hero, but she managed both hero work and assassin stuff. I think, for the sake of their project, Hawks would have been pushed towards hero work just a bit more since they realized one person having the burden of all that killing was asking for trouble. And while his quirk is likely fantastic for killing quietly, he's also worth more as an information gatherer. So, I think what influence Lady Nagant has was the fact that Keigo grew up in her shadow.

Hawks, as one of Public Safety's heroes, would have seen this up close. To someone like Hawks, who prioritizes helping others/helping society at cost of everything else - his happiness, his friends, other people, what would it be like to see a hero who was his senpai, the person who he should have been like, throw it all away and cause such strife in the commission? What would it be like to know that she was in Tartarus and now everyone was looking at him, wondering if he'd follow in her footsteps? But this is Takami Keigo we're talking about; he's had to live with the burden of other people all his life with Thief Takami as his father.

Hawks grew into his heroism with the heavy burden of having to prove people he wasn't two people - he wasn't Lady Nagant, who betrayed his organization (no matter how much he can resent them), and he wasn't his villain father. Additionally given how the current chapters are very much implying that heteromorphs get perceived as villainous, and Hawks is significantly more heteromorphic than said villain father, there's three expectations Hawks has to prove wrong.

We don't know if they had a relationship. I like to think he met her a few times, maybe even observed her. I'm still in the camp of Hawks not really functioning as an assassin for the HPSC even if he had training for it, so I don't think she would have trained him. But this line from Viz implies that it's Hawks that feels he should hunt her down, and it's clear it's due to the responsibility he feels as her 'kouhai' in the Commission. It's the duty he feels as her 'successor' who has been fighting the shadow she left on his organization since she left.