#wayleska meta

[psalmsofpsychosis]

Jeremiah Valeska threatens to put a bullet in Bruce Wayne's head but doesn't do it because he "loves him and they're best friends", but then he puts a bullet in Ecco's head as "a sign of devotion", the bullet he explicitly stated he wanted to put in Bruce's head first. Like, the show wants you to keep following this thread and draw the parallels; what does he do with Ecco?

He praises her on being so exceptional, so examplary, coos at her, slow dances with her, tries to hold philosophical discussions with her, it's a cheap synthetic imitation of everything he wants to tell Bruce, to do with him, probably has done with him because by establishing this parallels we have to acknowledge that it means Bruce is also "a very intimate, trusted person to him". And all of this leads to "Ace Chemicals" and he's pointing a gun at Bruce again, begging Bruce without words to take a bullet for him, make it count. "You dont have to do this," "But i do, because you'll never see me." In this essey i will

[irisbleufic]

why are you still writing for a fandom like gotham that’s gone near totally dead? idk your work is so good and i hate to see it somewhere there’s little interest anymore

My most intense period of writing activity with any new fandom runs 4 - 6 years on average. I started writing Gotham fic in early 2017, so we’re going on 6 years come April.

As far as reasons I can pinpoint beyond that, there are two. One, I’ve been extremely sick off and on since early 2019 (cancer, Celiac Disease, and then the recent stuff that led to emergency gallbladder removal), and I think while my body was failing and I didn’t know whether I’d survive the cancer part of it or not, I related hardcore to a couple of the characters I’m writing. I still do, actually. Two, I’m just not done yet; the ideas keep coming!

[sunlitroom]

I was looking over screenshots for That Old Corpse. I’ve looked in more detail at the ones from their first meeting before, because Jeremiah is so clearly and immediately smitten, but these are something else. They look so wrapped up in each other.  No matter what they’re doing - talking over Jeremiah’s invention, talking about Jerome’s diary, they’re constantly watching each other.  If one is looking at something else, then the other is watching them do so, watching their reactions, gleaning every tiny shift of expression

Here they are both fascinated by Jeremiah’s latest invention.  They’re caught up in the device itself, but Bruce is also fully focused on Jeremiah, and Jeremiah is clearly delighted by being able to delight Bruce

In the rare moments where they’re not staring at each other, or when one isn’t watching the other one unawares, they’re both focused on the same task (turning the device on here, reading the diary later), working in sync.

Here’s an example of one of those moments once is focused on the other’s reaction more than what’s actually happening.  Bruce is caught up in watching the machine work, and Jeremiah isn’t looking at that.  He’s caught up in watching Bruce being caught up.

Super intense staring, visibly trying to read each other’s expressions.

We’ve also got a lot of very close body language.  Even though they’ve known each other for a very short period of time, and even though they’re both quite private, controlled people - they’re standing as close to each other as possible, signalling that they’ve quickly formed a close relationship/

As an overt ship, I’ve said before it doesn’t really work for me in-show due to how it develops later: Jeremiah’s interest in him becomes explicitly intense, and it just feels - to me - that Bruce doesn’t quite know what to do with it quite, yet - he’s a little too young.  In these scenes, though, you can definitely see the beginnings of something in this very sudden and intense focus on one another.

[fontofmercy-archived]

My ramblings about case for Twinleska

- Despite spending most of their childhood apart, Jerome and Jeremiah can still perfectly minimic each other’s mannerisms and speech to the point where no one can tell the difference. Jerome does this in his first appearance where he’s trying to appear an innocent, loving son (i.e Jermeiah) and Jeremiah of course pretends to be Jerome as part of his first plot post-gas. This shows how vividly they still remember each other.

- We never see Jerome more emotional than when he is confronting Jeremiah about leaving him, it’s clear that more than the horrific physical abuse and more than having to murder his own mother (who he didn’t love and for good reason) - Jeremiah leaving him was the worst thing that has ever happened to Jerome and I don’t think it’s just because the abuse probably increased in severity after that (although Jerome’s abuse is NOT Jeremiah’s fault and I made a post about that on my old blog*). I think it’s also because Jerome lost the only person who was ever on his side and who understood him. I firmly believe that Jerome did do something that made Jeremiah genuinely afraid of him (also explained *) and I imagine he probably behaved aggressively or even possibly abusively towards Jeremiah because he was desperate to hold onto the only person that he actually loves (similarly to how Jeremiah ends up behaving towards Bruce, he picked it up somewhere).

- There’s also the fact that they don’t want each other dead. Jeremiah cries when he sees his brother’s body. As for Jerome, yes he says that he’s going to kill Jeremiah “of course” but I am 99.9% certain that he didn’t mean that and was just fucking with Jeremiah because he’s spiteful about the attempted murder stories. Jerome planned for Jeremiah to get sprayed and become like him, you could argue that he planned to drive jeremiah insane and then kill him but that doesn’t make much sense. See, Jerome doesn’t see “driving Jeremiah mad” as a punishment, he thinks being insane is a good thing (and post-gas, Jeremiah sees it as “the gift his brother gave him”) so no I don’t think Jerome meant to punish Jeremiah then kill him, he meant to make Jeremiah see the world the way he does and by doing so permanently bind them together. Sound familiar? Oh, it should 😉

- Jeremiah is a person who needs an obsession to survive, we never see him without someone that consumes his life and drives his every move. It’s quite clear that Jerome was Jeremiah’s obsession at least from the time he left to when he meets Bruce (who replaces Jerome in Jeremiah’s life after his death) but it can be inferred that they were obsessed with each other as children too.

- I’ve been alluding to it but yes, Jeremiah’s obsession with Bruce is an attempt to recreate (and by proxy, fix) his relationship with Jerome. How do I know that? Because Jeremiah explicitly says so multiple times!

“You’ll be the brother I never had, the one Jerome never could be.”

“If I can’t have you as a brother bonded by love...we’ll just have to be bonded by hatred.”

The second line in particular: brothers failing to bond through love so becoming bonded through hatred. That is literally Jerome and Jeremiah’s relationship in canon! Meaning that Jeremiah’s love for Jerome is the only source of reference that he has to love Bruce (because that’s the only other person he’s loved, Ecco was a favored tool and his mother was a delusion).

As I said earlier: Jeremiah tries to force Bruce to see lose his mind and see things the way Jeremiah does because he’s convinced that will bond them together because that’s what bonded him to Jerome.

It’s clear that Jeremiah has non-platonic feelings for Bruce, he wouldn’t see Selina specifically (more so than Alfred or anyone else Bruce loves) as competition if he didn’t. So, it follows that Jeremiah wouldn’t be making references to his relationship with his brother unless he had some level of non-platonic feelings for Jerome as well.

So, Jeremiah tries to force his worldview onto Bruce the way that Jerome probably did to him when they were children and the outcome is the same; Jeremiah scares Bruce into abandoning him and falls even deeper into insanity when he “loses the one, the only thing he loves”.

* https://jrluthor.tumblr.com/post/187669992458/im-so-done-seeing-people-act-like-jeremiah-lying

[batjokes-central]

Bruce’s immediate response of “You mean nothing to me” when Jeremiah asks if he feels the connection between them seems kind of... off? Like that wasn’t really the question Jeremiah was asking.

It’s like they’re having two different conversations. Jeremiah is asking if Bruce feels an emotion, and Bruce not only doesn’t directly answer, but says something that’s only tangentially related. He’s answering a question that wasn’t even asked. Bruce’s response really only seems to make sense had the question been “You mean so much to me; do I mean something to you?”.

But Jeremiah’s question didn’t really touch on what they meant to each other. Based on his wording, it seems reasonable that he meant what he said: I feel something raw and powerful between us. Do you?

Bruce’s response was WAY over the paygrade of what Jeremiah was asking. He could’ve simply said, “No, I don’t feel a connection between us,” or “What are you even talking about?” if he had been confused about what Jeremiah meant.

But no. Bruce decidedly does NOT seem confused by what Jeremiah is asking. Not only does he not answer the question, but he goes even further and says how little Jeremiah meant to him.

Bruce seems to think that that was a perfectly reasonable response to the question. Maybe he felt he had implicitly answered it. But a person’s place in one’s life (or what they mean to you) isn’t really the same as the feelings you have for that person (unrequited love from a great distance, for instance). You can feel a lot for someone, but not have a place for them in your life.

Bruce in his answer wants to conflate these two. But I don’t buy it.

Bruce was angry. So, so angry. He went in with fists flying while Jeremiah waltzed in leisurely. He pounded him into the metal while Jeremiah was (very clearly) enjoying the fight. Moaning “yes”, out of breath as he groaned out his true feelings for Bruce. And he wouldn’t back down from his words.

Bruce likely was frustrated that Jeremiah didn’t seem all too phased about his own beatdown. Then to top it all off, he’s talking about a connection between them?

Bruce didn’t immediately answer when Jeremiah asked. But he had more than ample opportunity to do so. Like, 15 whole seconds of him beating up Jeremiah and being peppered with questions from Jeremiah. Heck, he was being goaded into responding that entire time. Jeremiah was all but accusing Bruce of feeling the connection that flowed between them. He was deliberately trying to corner Bruce, knowing that his pushiness would make him yield eventually.

So when Bruce DOES respond, it’s with a malice that far surpasses that of the questions and accusations. Why wait so long to respond only to deliver something so hurtful?

The answer: homosexual repression and being ashamed of loving someone who, in his current state, was not good for him.

[irisbleufic]

THIS. Their relationship becomes so much more poignant when you realize they’ve both become recluses in their own ways, even though one of them technically goes out and about in the world on the regular. Just because Bruce leaves Wayne Manor regularly doesn’t mean that house and Alfred aren’t his entire fucking world in much the same way that the maze/bunker and Ecco are Jeremiah’s. We can tell in the show that Bruce has been making regular visits to the bunker as Jeremiah works on the generator design, and we have evidence that Jeremiah has been braving the surface to go to Wayne Industries to work as well (that scene in the darkened hall at WI when the guards are like, oh, Mr. Valeska, it’s you, hi…before Ecco kicks their asses, IIRC, and she and Jeremiah step into that huge room of finished generators/bombs). You can’t tell me he wasn’t going to see Bruce at Wayne Manor, too, because during that scene in the bunker when Jeremiah’s flipping through Jerome’s journal, growing more and more paranoid as he shows it to Bruce, that phone call Bruce gets from Alfred shows that Alfred is just as afraid for Jeremiah, like he actually includes Jeremiah in his frantic concern as expressed to Jim and then Bruce. They let each other into their weird microcosms without a second thought. It’s a true tragedy the show couldn’t give us more of that off the back end of S4, more build-up between the two of them before Jeremiah stops hiding the fact he’s been sprayed. He’s sprayed the evening of the day they meet, and you know by all logic that it’s got to be at least a couple months he’s working on those generators before the day it all goes to hell. You can even reason that Jerome’s burial not taking place until a couple months after his death makes sense…the investigation, the autopsy Lucius refers to, everything like that. Some people just don’t get buried quickly, especially in fraught circumstances. The TL;DR here is that, between the day they meet (which is also the day of Jerome’s death and Jeremiah getting sprayed) and the day Jeremiah reveals to Bruce what’s happened to him (and all its attending chaos), there is evidence that many weeks, probably anywhere in the range of six to eight, maybe even ten, have passed. Jeremiah is brilliant and can work fast, but not days fast. These boys were seeing each other and continuing to bond for a decent stretch even while Jeremiah was under duress of hiding his transformed state. This is why I hate the choice the writers made to let him fall in the acid and lose all sense of self except for knowing and loving Bruce. Just-gassed Jeremiah has a lot more dramatic potential and a lot more emotional range…and more capacity for change, as long as Bruce doesn’t forsake him.

One of the things that endears me so much to Bruce and Jeremiah’s relationship–and one reason I find their instant connection so believable–is that they are both just such…oddballs in their own ways. Since the life-altering trauma of his parents’ deaths, Bruce has grown up homeschooled, following under Alfred’s tutelage. Meanwhile, Jeremiah’s fear of his brother has driven him underground, so apart from society that his only contact with the outside world is through a proxy. Bruce and Jeremiah share their status as outsiders. They are too smart. Too serious. Isolated from their peers. It makes perfect sense that they would feel a kinship with each other almost immediately, and that that relationship would have the potential to deepen and grow into something much more. 

[psalmsofpsychosis]

What I Say: i'm fine

What I Mean: DC couldn't let Jeremiah Valeska be a canon Joker depiction because Jeremiah and Bruce's connection is shaped corner to corner too closely to Bruce and Selina's bond for there to be space for any freerange interpretations other than, hey, resplendent homosexuality!!

Selina is tied to Bruce by the fate of watching him in his moment of death; with his parents gone, Bruce died that night in that back alley and was reborn a different child the day after. Jeremiah knew this; he tried to re-enact the whole night, to be the only one present with Bruce in the moment of his second metaphorical death and rebirth.

In 2x10 Bruce tells Selina that he has never met someone like her, that he trusts her with his life, and that he feels tied to her in a way that he couldn't explain but wouldn't change. Jeremiah and Bruce's connection starts on the same grounds; Jeremiah has never met someone like Bruce, he trusts him with his life and wants Bruce to trust him with his own, "we are bound; him and i", the bond is, again, something Bruce cannot understand and "will not try to change". having the 2x10 scene in mind is integral to understanding Jeremiah and Bruce's relationship because it is the only instance in which Bruce acknowledges and consciously owns a romantic bond with another person, in direct contrast to outright coming out and telling Jeremiah that "he means nothing to him"; to noone else has Bruce been so vulnurable and transparent, both in love and in hatred.

Jeremiah shoots Selina a moment after Bruce kisses her; Selina ruins Jeremiah's entire plans a moment after Jeremiah holds a knife to Bruce's throat, holding him by the collar, face three inches from Bruce's. Jeremiah kills Selina in front of Bruce, Selina kills Jeremiah, again, in front of Bruce.

And it certainly was the choice of all time to have both Jeremiah and Selina in the season 5 finale say Bruce "left them behind", talking to a shadow figure that they can't quite tell is there or not. They're also both the only people who are not quite sure of Batman's existence but immediately recognise him the moment they see him from 300 miles away.

[psalmsofpsychosis]

Reginald Payne × Alfred Pennyworth VS. Jeremiah Valeska × Bruce Wayne: A Saga.

Hello and good evening, in tonight's episode of "Gotham TV is an insane show for insane people" we're talking about Regional Pain. I mean, Reginald Payne. He is Alfred Pennyworth's "best friend", which in the context of the show's wordplays can fall anywhere on the spectrum of "actual dear friend" to "starcrossed lover", but perhaps most importantly he is a Jeremiah Valeska mirror used to establish a dynamic with Alfred that portrays exactly where does Bruce Wayne get his uhh, interesting habits in regards to his "best friends". you see;

Reggie is introduced as a raging alcoholic and mean druggie, and through him Alfred is revealed as a post-raging alcoholic with drug problems who's barely hanging on and trying not to relapse, kept afloat almost strictly by his immense love for Bruce.

In season 4, Jeremiah Valeska is introduced as a raging alcoholic and most likely a druggie, and Bruce has only slightly started to recover from his fun alcoholism, barely keeping his head above water with an iron grip on his love for Alfred.

When Reggie shows up at the Wayne Manor's door, he lies to Alfred, he is there to ruin his and bruce's lives, uses Alfred for his soft heart, capitalises on their friendship for sympathy and offers a false story, "lost a loved one and i went insane, couldn't do it".

Post-InsanityGas Jeremiah lies to Bruce, he is there to ruin his life, uses Bruce for his soft heart and capitalises on their friendship, keeping face with a false story, "lost the other half of me and i'm not dealing with it well, i can't do this," and Bruce holds his hand through it.

Reggie provokes Bruce so thoroughly, he is willing to go through with their make-believe combat practice too, "You hit me, you draw all the blood you can, i'm giving you a pass and you'll take it, violence is true and real, it's effective." Only Alfred puts a stop to it.

in the "Ace Chemicals" episode, Jeremiah provokes Bruce to hit him, to draw blood, he wants everything Bruce has in him. The only thing keeping Bruce from packing his punches is the knowledge that he has someone to come back to; he has Alfred, and he has Selina.

Reginald and Alfred get drunk together and Reginald tells Bruce about the night the SAS team cought a snake and put the goddamn thing in Alfred's bag. He tells Bruce about how Alfred cooked and made them all eat the snake.

Jeremiah's mother was a snake dancer, he grew up around snakes, he intimately knows how to handle one. He's viper colored and he's basically a snake sleeping in Bruce's bag throughtout season 4.

Reggie is a harsh truth caller, "Why dont you tell Bruce the truth, why are you afraid of him knowing the real you?" Reggie tells Alfred two wine bottles in. "You're a dog Alfred, a vicious well trained dog is what you are."

Jeremiah Valeska sees right through Bruce and becomes his truth caller, "You're so mean Bruce, there's darkness in you, so dark, we're so alike," he tells him.

Alfred tells Reggie that he's "willing to be better than he actually is because he has loved ones to care for, he will not give in to his own violence,"

Bruce tells Jeremiah that he "wants to be better than he actually is because he has loved ones to care for, he will not give in to his own darkness."

Reggie almost kills Alfred, someone very dear to Bruce, and then stays in town, knowing full well Alfred would know where to find him and have his revenge if he survived.

Jeremiah shoots Selina, someone very dear to Bruce, and then allows himself to get cought very easily, staying near and in reachable distance.

5 years later and Jeremiah leaves Bruce half insane and completely shattered, clawing into Alfred's arms in an abandoned warehouse outside Gotham, and noone has ever loved Bruce as much as Jeremiah loves him.

Reggie tears up after Bruce finally corners him, "I didn't mean any harm. Is he okay? He is okay, isn't he?" he trembles as he asks Bruce. Bruce's voice is venom as he reminds him, "You stabbed him; why do you care?" to which Reggie answers, screaming "I care! I damn care!!" because people love each other even in the ways they hurt each other.

Bruce is the one who hunts down both Reginald and Jeremiah for a chance at explanations; Selina is the one who kills Reggie.

Selina is also the one who kills Jeremiah.

And still, throughout all this Alfred is so posessive of Reggie— he actively dissuades detective Gordon from finding out about Reggie and shoos Gordon away. When Bruce asks him why he wont tell the truth about who stabbed him, Alfred says "Believe it or not, Reggie is a mate, and you do not set coppers on your mate now, do you?"

"But he almost killed you."

"we were a team together, he's my friend, if anyone can figure him out it's going to be me, noone else can do it; it wouldn't be right."

Alfred is immediately so protective of his connection to Reggie, "noone else can catch him, i know him, only i can do it right, we know each other like the backs of our hands," he intimately personalises his connection to him.

Jeremiah Valeska hurts Bruce more than perhaps anyone had ever hurt him, but when he calls to him, Bruce determinedly goes alone; Jeremiah is his fight and his only, he's the only person who knows him, the only person who can leash him in, noone else; it wouldn't be right.

Every bit of possessiveness Bruce has Over Jeremiah is a blueprint copy of how Alfred frames his friendships and his love for the people closest to him; ALFRED is where Bruce learnt the ways and whys of human connection and friendship. Really, in the Wayne Manor everyone is just 55 strings of generational patterns in a trenchcoat.

[psalmsofpsychosis]

Today on Everyday I Wake Up And Gotham TV Hurts Me news: You think Wayleska is not canon? i'm hereby referring you to Fred Alford's essey on the nature of evil and how we're wired to react to it.

Next i'm reminding you that in season 3 Bruce desperately tries to define his connection with Selina in common terms and pull her into a semblance of a relationship, and Selina refuses the labels. "We do we have to be anything? Why can't we just be Selina and Bruce?" and eventually they grow into something far more complex and deeper and more meaningful and multifacated than the combination of a bunch of definitions.

in Season 5 Jeremiah desperately tries to define his connection with Bruce and pull him into a semblance of a relationship, and Bruce refuses to engage with the idea of Jeremiah putting a name to them, "enemies" "brothers" "best friends", and really what they end up being is simply Bruce and Jeremiah. Following this thread of thought, you can see the narrative disclosing to you, the audience, that by utterly refusing any and all definitions for what he and Jeremiah are, in principle Bruce is acknowledging that he does not see Jeremiah as evil nor does he see a true foundational need to contain him, and with this choice in his mind his connection with Jeremiah Valeska is elevated to hold the same quality and cadence as his connection with Selina.

[psalmsofpsychosis]

@03140418 "If i loved you less i might be able to talk about it more" STOP STOP I'M ALREADY DEAD—

No but for real, the people who think wayleska is one sided might as well have 4 pair of eyes to me because Bruce's love language is offers of resources and protection. and he ONLY ever offers these to two people; Selina and Jeremiah, noone else. In season 1 he offers Selina to come live with him, have a safe home, warm food, protection from street thugs. In season 4 he offers Jeremiah Valeska —the brother of a known psychotic criminal that tried to kill him three fucking times— full funding in golden Wayne Enterprises cash, after having been in his mere vicinity for some wonderful, wonderful 3 hours. No background research, no resume read-ins, no inquiries on how much fund the project might even need, how large the scale of it is, what the financial and commercial commitments of the contract would be, if the Wayne Enterprises board could even be persuaded to fund the independent project of an insane criminal's insanely weird brother.

Like, i dont think people actually understand the level of absurdity and insanity and lovestruck stupidity of the context, what Bruce did for Miah on spot. He offered him millions of fund upfront, no questions asked whatsoever, and it wasn't just money. When Jeremiah dumps Bruce in Jerome's grave and goes to visit Wayne Enterprises, he has active access card to all of the building, each and every door, without a supervisor or accompanying company staff. His generators are not stored in a WE warehouse somewhere in whateverville outside Gotham; they're stored in THE central Wayne Enterprises warehouse directly located under the main WE building. Jeremiah more or less has CEO-level access to almost the entire building, and Bruce had a level of trust in this man that was quite frankly incomparable to anything he had ever offered anybody else before, and you better damn well believe that he fought the WE board members tooth and nail to secure all the means Miah needed to completely his project. The entire central Wayne Enterprises build was at the service of Jeremiah's project, their had their best scientists dedicated to the reproduction process. And people think that Bruce had no feelings for Miah, or was just trying to be "a good friend"? He is a good friend to Lucius, and Lucius didn't even get half the resources that Bruce allocated to every need Jeremiah might have. Jeremiah's generators were possible literally because Bruce poured everything he was and everything he had into Jeremiah’s life, and it's the very thing that eats him from the inside.

And so really, who cares if a 16 years old boy doesn't have the most intricately nuanced Freudian take on a script he's given to play before he's even legal to touch alcohol? Look at the narrative in front of you, Gotham TV is ripe to the point of burst with subtle subtext and symbolism, this show relies so much on metaphors and parallels— do people really think that it was a fun cutesy unintended accident that the scene where Jeremiah and Bruce meetup in the bunker when Jeremiah's going insane is shot in a way that has both character surrounded with wilted yellow roses, a symbol for friendship and affection and ALSO lost romantic love?? Do they think it's a fun whatever, the way the Ace Chemical fight almost exactly replicates Five and Selina's fight in which Selina falls to her death?? Like c'mon, for anyone who wasn't 14 and had even just the most basic grasp on literary symbolism David said nothing that we didn't know before, and he really didn't have to. The story is right there, everything in this song is written in a very specific key, and Nygmobblepot dont jump out of a happy meal box by the finale and declare "WE LOVE EACH OTHER SO MUCH!!!!" either, and people see them as canon just fine, so i have to wonder what exactly keeps them from seeing wayleska for what it is, which is an explicitly canon struggle between two obsessive, heartbroken men in love who will do anything at this point to get under each other's skin, because hatred is just love translated into familiar language.

David advocating for batjokes is so cathartic bc i remember ages ago some were suggesting that gotham!batjokes wasn't really a two-hander and only Cameron was playing up the tragic love arc (which is crazy because david has talked about Jeremiah loving bruce before the ace chem episode dropped and the fact that he literally plays Bruce as though he's on the verge of crying in every other scene he has with post-reveal Jeremiah but okay)

I need to hear these two guys idea dumping on each other while filming season 5

postgrad David and Cameron are dream Gotham blunt rotation for real because i geniunely think they're both incredibly delightful and unhinged and strange individuals and i also think that they both knew what they were doing.

Like, putting it into context— Cameron was just coming off 11 years of Shameless US, jesus christ. He was a gayism veteran at that point, he knew what the tone oh his plot was, of course he was going to act it that way and talk about it that way. But also, David was a 16 years old kid. Like, i dont know what indepth philosophical nuance people expected him to bring to the table, he was a fucking child at the time, teens take things lightly, it's what they do. But still it's an insane, insane thing to me that some people thought that gotham!batjokes is an unintended one sided narrative because, as you yourself said, David's acting is incredibly deliberate and distinct, Bruce's body language is a whole world of its own when it comes to Miah, and we're not even talking about the plot points. So i think that in the specific S5 time frame he played it more intuitively and less philosophically like Cameron did, and he didn't necessarily have a grown up's vocabulary around the narrative, i honestly didn't expect him to. But now that he's older and has had time away from the clutches of DC and also more years on him, he's came back full force. His analysis and understanding of Joker is on point, and he took extra care to really highlight where his priorities lie in a "Joker Essey" video by sticking the fucking "only Batman would go to this length to find the good in Joker, because he's his one true love" comment sticker right on top. There was no reason for him to highlight that comment, or draw any attention to it at all, if he wasn't aboard the batjokes train of hell. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and man does it heal me to the bone, i'm just so glad to know that everybody has been on the same page all along, it shows on screen and offscreen

[psalmsofpsychosis]

Actually, i remembered the "Oh Ecco, my echo," line off S05E12 this morning and i've been thinking, like

Gotham makes a Narcissus allegory out of Jeremiah Valeska basically from the first moment we get introduced to the character; he destroyed his own twin brother just to design a better life for himself, and his assisstent is called Ecco. The walls of his underground maze are all concrete grey, eerily resembling the color of a murky mirror lake, and it's based in the middle of a jungle.

And then there's this thing with the myth of Narcissus— it has varuous different retellings, one of the oldest ones being,

And this is a very fascinating, lesser known variation on the myth and in part a delicious concept that i think Gotham had so much space to explore and sadly didn't, because— well, Gotham is no stranger to incest. and Jeremiah and Jerome altogether had a very intriguing and fucked up history, and i think part of the symbolism was still picked up on. There's still a somewhat consistent imagery of Jeremiah becoming just like his twin brother, and finding a mirror of himself in Bruce.

It would've been wonderful if the show had went on to emphasize how Jeremiah didn't have any mirrors in his bunker maze, and the first time he truly sees himself after Jerome dies is in Bruce.

i also wish the Narcissus/Lake symbolism was emphasized way more, Bruce being the calm, still, crystal clear waters in which Jeremiah can see true beauty in for the very first time.

no no wait, that actually happened.

[irisbleufic]

ok but after this incredible analysis you did

THIS. Their relationship becomes so much more poignant when you realize they’ve both become recluses in their own ways, even though one of them technically goes out and about in the world on the regular. Just because Bruce leaves Wayne Manor regularly doesn’t mean that house and Alfred aren’t his entire fucking world in much the same way that the maze/bunker and Ecco are Jeremiah’s. We can tell in the show that Bruce has been making regular visits to the bunker as Jeremiah works on the generator design, and we have evidence that Jeremiah has been braving the surface to go to Wayne Industries to work as well (that scene in the darkened hall at WI when the guards are like, oh, Mr. Valeska, it’s you, hi…before Ecco kicks their asses, IIRC, and she and Jeremiah step into that huge room of finished generators/bombs). You can’t tell me he wasn’t going to see Bruce at Wayne Manor, too, because during that scene in the bunker when Jeremiah’s flipping through Jerome’s journal, growing more and more paranoid as he shows it to Bruce, that phone call Bruce gets from Alfred shows that Alfred is just as afraid for Jeremiah, like he actually includes Jeremiah in his frantic concern as expressed to Jim and then Bruce. They let each other into their weird microcosms without a second thought. It’s a true tragedy the show couldn’t give us more of that off the back end of S4, more build-up between the two of them before Jeremiah stops hiding the fact he’s been sprayed. He’s sprayed the evening of the day they meet, and you know by all logic that it’s got to be at least a couple months he’s working on those generators before the day it all goes to hell. You can even reason that Jerome’s burial not taking place until a couple months after his death makes sense…the investigation, the autopsy Lucius refers to, everything like that. Some people just don’t get buried quickly, especially in fraught circumstances. The TL;DR here is that, between the day they meet (which is also the day of Jerome’s death and Jeremiah getting sprayed) and the day Jeremiah reveals to Bruce what’s happened to him (and all its attending chaos), there is evidence that many weeks, probably anywhere in the range of six to eight, maybe even ten, have passed. Jeremiah is brilliant and can work fast, but not days fast. These boys were seeing each other and continuing to bond for a decent stretch even while Jeremiah was under duress of hiding his transformed state. This is why I hate the choice the writers made to let him fall in the acid and lose all sense of self except for knowing and loving Bruce. Just-gassed Jeremiah has a lot more dramatic potential and a lot more emotional range…and more capacity for change, as long as Bruce doesn’t forsake him.

how am i supposed to take a class when all im thinking about is them?????

Friend, I have no clue—and I have to teach one on Zoom two hours from now. Like, yikes, today’s topic is digital literacy and posing a research question. The only thing my digital literacy has been good for today is Gotham meta.

[sunlitroom]

Thanks! One more thought maybe XD Alas, I feel like 90% of the answers to life's questions is "Depends" or "Well yes and no" XD I feel like gotta go with what feels organic, even tho I hate it. I feel like with Jeremiah the possibility of there being a tiny spark of light somewhere inside him is more to work with, and I think where I might go with him in a story is a sorta-kinda "redemption arc" but with my fascination of dark + light and there having to be a balance of the two.

Hey anon :)

I’ve posted the second question here too - since they’re linked.  And please don’t apologise for your waffle.  I also like to waffle. :)

2. It's like, even after he he was transformed by chemicals, there is still so much there. And my brain starts swarming with ideas of where to go, and I feel a natural progression would be. That he's so far gone but MAYBE old Jere is floating around in there somewhere..? And I take inspiration sorta in Barbara, even though I don't really like her. It seems somewhat the same for everybody on that show. There is BadGood. Or GoodBad. However you look at it XD (Thanks for putting up with my waffle)

I absolutely think there’s still part of pre-gas Jeremiah there.  It’s part of what makes the whole thing heartbreaking to watch.  He’s doing all this stuff, and part of him can only watch as his most private thoughts and feelings are not only exposed, but twisted.

Look at him here:

He starts with starry-eyed hopeless gazing. 

That then sharpens into something a menacing and manic post-gas grin with the ‘you’ll see’.  

Then there’s that achingly sad and quietly desperate ‘in time’.  That in time seems like it also has some private significance to Jeremiah.  I have a theory that Jeremiah’s pre-gas brain might have unconsciously thought about a relationship with Bruce, and the remaining rational part of his mind is still contemplating it.   ‘A relationship could grow in time’ sounds like something the cautious pre-gas Jeremiah might have hopefully thought to himself, and imagined happening.

For all he’s just said, ‘in time’ - the fourth gif looks like he knows it’s futile.  His expression is like he’s grieving for what might have been, and is now horribly broken - a twisted joke of itself.  Like in the third gif, there’s that hopeless, longing regret.

Imagine being as private and repressed as Jeremiah, used to living hidden away, keeping everything carefully under control - and then suddenly pursuing Bruce overtly and obsessively.  Telling him you not only have feelings for him, but that you want to be the only man he sees when he closes his eyes.  And not telling him in private.  Yelling it, in public, and having the sentiment all twisted and poisoned

Look at how exhausted and mortified he is afterwards.  The showman facade slips - and you’re left with wrung-out and embarrassed despair.

It’s bad enough for Jeremiah, whom we might guess is pretty inexperienced, to be forced to suddenly air feelings and ideas he’s still getting to grips with - but to have to do it in front of the person he cares about?  A person he’s also hurting horribly, and would never have actually wanted to hurt?  That’s excruciating. 

Jerome’s revenge is perfect, in that respect.  It’s ongoing torture.  Jeremiah prized control.  He controlled his behaviour, he controlled his environment - he even imposed a narrative over his past that let him control it.  That control is gone - but he’s aware of it.  He’s not entirely lost his mind.  He’s the unwilling audience to his own humiliation.

Your idea that ‘old’ Jeremiah is still in there is reinforced by the fact that he seems to retain most of his other knowledge and characteristics.  He’s still an architect - he just wants to raze the entire city to the ground now so he can start from scratch.  He’s still controlled - it’s just that his old restraint is now a sort of performative hyper-controlled gracefulness.  He’s still impatient and contemptuous with those he deems less intelligent - it’s just that he’s willing to to use and kill them now.

(First gif set from @endiness. Not sure of the second, but will happily credit if someone lets me know)

[spes-vero]

so anyway Jeremiah Valeska was a normal bro who experienced normal emotions towards his dainty noHomie Bruce Wayne, and he expressed those very normal emotions in a very normal language

[irisbleufic]

I have to credit your amazing commitment to queering Gotham, to a degree even the show and the broader fandom does not, in your fics. Every time you try another permutation of events, there are ‘what if’ character tweaks that make so much fucking sense. It’s a shame the fandom isn’t as active anymore. Props to you for continuing to write highest standard stuff even if the audiences are now quieter or have moved on. I see you, and your work has value!

Hey, anon!  That’s sweet of you to say.  I’ve likely talked about this before, but the population/activity level of any given fandom have never been my primary motivation for getting involved.  Gotham was incredibly busy for the first 2 of the 3 years I’ve been creating content.  Most fandoms end up in a dramatic lull after their first couple years of activity as it is.  This feels normal.  Besides, I get more work done when fandom traffic is low.

As for the level of queering I’m engaging in, that’s par for the course with me, too.  I have a highly visible history, especially in my non-fandom/published work, when it comes to reclaiming/subverting connections between disability, queerness, and monstrosity.  Gotham has been an absolute dream for me on that front; the opportunities canon threw away, I’m glad to salvage.  I’m definitely not done exploring what else I can do with it! 

[irisbleufic]

I saw you were getting mean anons so I wanted to say YOU'RE AMAZING, I LOVE YOU, AND CONSIDER: J+B AND VULCAN KISSES CAUSE THEY'RE NERDS.

OMG, I die.  The level of nerd they tend to be in private would definitely allow for something like this to happen, and I’m here for it.  Love back at you, my friend!