#wasnt going to post these initially but i changed my mind for now... | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

ammomancer · 1 year ago

Text

Interesting post! Here's some of my own two cents(i havent read the comic this is just thoughts on whats shown here):

-Why was the Clown the one who killed Jason? Like, I know the Comedian had to be the TKJ one, and Criminal is supposed to be Golden Age Joker but like, Clown seems to represent Silver Age Joker and ADITF definitely wasn't in the Silver Age, so what's the point of limiting it like that? More importantly (imo), the Joker in ADITF wasn't especially showy or funny. At least not beyond, like, baseline Joker level. The only "jokes" that come to mind are him calling Jason a "bad boy" who "must be punished" and him wearing a keffiyeh (ugh whyyyyy).

-There's a scene in Under the Hood that always stuck out to me, where Joker tries to pull the "we're not so different you and i" card and Jason shuts him down immediately. I'm not saying Jason can *never* think he and Joker are alike, just that he'd need a bit more convincing, is all.

-This is going to sound bad but Barbara being up and walking around in this story feels like it undermines her connection to the Joker, almost? I mean I always hate it when they have her walking again, but it almost makes it seem like Jay "had it worse" than her, since she's in a similar place in her life to where she was before. Sure, Jason isn't dead anymore, but when he died he lost everything and there's a lot of it he'll never get back. (To be clear I don't think Joker shooting her should be framed as "ruining her life", ideally she'd be happy with her new life even if it changing wasn't initially her choice, if that makes sense. I really like Oracle, is basically what I'm saying)

-Jason being the new Joker does actually seem kinda sick, if for no other reason than the psychological horror of it all.

-God it would be SO much better if Barbara was portrayed as more of an older sister figure to Jason than... whatever this is. Like, Geoff, did you not see the panel of Jason's funeral that features Barbara as a grown-ass woman?

-oh barbara as joker is a fascinating concept now im mad that wasnt explored more. though knowing Geoff it would end up as a "hysterical woman" thing. see: his treatment of Carol Ferris

Three Jokers Are Not Better Than One

(or, cheap twists don't make a good story)

Would you look at that? It's time to bitch about Three Jokers!

(spoilers for a 3-year-old comic ahead)

Gotham War got me into hater mode, so I figured it was time to take a second look at Three Jokers, written by Geoff Johns and drawn by Jason Fabok. I first read it when the issues came out, and I thought it was possible that the story isn't as bad as I remembered. I don't know why, since for the past three years I've been haunted by the possibility of it being deemed canon.

Of course, at the time of conception, Three Jokers was intended to be canon. Writer Geoff Johns set up the premise in the Darkseid War storyline of the 2011 Justice League run, in issues published in 2015/2016. Batman takes control of the omniscient Mobius Chair, and he tests it by asking who killed his parents. Then he asks a second question, which Hal Jordan presses him on several issues later.

[Justice League (2011) #42 & Justice League (2011) #50]

Four years later, when Three Jokers was set to be released towards the end of 2020, Johns did at first confirm it would be canon despite being released via Black Label, where books are not meant to be part of the larger continuity. In later interviews, however, this assertion got walked back in favor of saying the canonicity is up to each reader, which is kind of a wild thing to say. "Look, this story merely proposes that one of our most popular characters has actually been three different dudes the whole time, which totally has a negligible impact on how that character should be seen and has interacted with the world. Take it or leave it!"

But then, DC's idea of canon has been pretty squiggly of late, especially with the increasing multiverse shenanigans. In the final issue of Dark Knights: Death Metal in 2021, the reader is told, "with our past finally set, myriad new futures are opening up. And as hypertime heals, we'll likely experience flashes of them– and even alternate pasts– in pretty epic fashion." Infinite Frontier followed, with a press release declaring, "When our heroes saved the Multiverse from Perpetua in Dark Nights: Death Metal, everything was put back where it belonged… and we do mean everything. All the damage from all the Crises was undone [....]"

I have a lot of thoughts about this, revolving around what the heck does it mean for storytelling and how we should understand characters that apparently, somehow, everything is canon? How are we supposed to take this as anything other than the omniverse being an excuse for DC Editorial to wave off responsibility for a legible timeline? "Batman can be in two places at once because, uh, the Monitor sneezed?"

But this too-long essay is about Three Jokers, so I'll narrow my concern: if character histories can simply change with a multiversal glitch, in whatever overwrought way those are usually explained to us, then it sure feels like it doesn't matter that Three Jokers was published under Black Label. It sure seems like, at whoever's whim, Three Jokers can still get locked into the main storyline. I mean, Zdarsky still hasn't explained what that three Jokers shit in Batman #135 is about. On the other hand, we know that the explanation for the two Jokers in The Man Who Stopped Laughing does not involve the multiverse, and Joker is supposed to reunite with Batman over in Zdarsky's story when that story closes out, so… I actually have no reason to be confident that means anything.

"But why would Three Jokers getting canonized be so bad?" you may ask if you've never read Three Jokers (or if you fully enjoyed it).

Speaking for myself, it starts with the premise: taking a character and saying, "actually, this is not one complex guy but three different guys, which fractures the character's motivations and relationships over the last several decades." When that character is one you enjoy very much, this twist is not fun. It's a fundamental change to who they are.

Then five months before the release of Three Jokers #1, Johns and Fabok did an interview with Entertainment Weekly. Some things the pair said raised red flags:

1) Three Jokers' story would focus on the trauma that Barbara, Jason, and Bruce suffered at Joker's hands, per Johns. "If you suffer some trauma, you don’t just get over with it and move on with your life, it changes who you are. Sometimes it changes you for the better, sometimes it changes you for the worse. You can heal right, and you can heal wrong. That’s really what the book’s about: Healing right, healing wrong, and surviving."

2) Johns also said of the story: “It goes back to the beginning when Batman first encountered the Joker, but it’s also The Killing Joke and A Death in the Family that speak to the book and that we’re building off emotionally." And Fabok mentioned that the book's look would be based on the aesthetics of The Killing Joke: "I really want it to feel like it could be a spiritual sequel, at least artistically."

These remarks foreshadowed a disconnect. A key part of The Killing Joke itself is that both Joker and Bruce experienced terrible trauma ("one bad day"), but in responding to it, they made different choices: broadly, Joker choosing to hurt people versus Bruce choosing to help people. Johns excluding Joker from his comments about trauma felt like a sign that he ignored a key part of the character, despite Joker being a core part of a new tale "emotionally" inspired by TKJ.

(We're setting aside "you can heal right and you can heal wrong" for now. Ohhh, we'll get back to that.)

Johns' blind spot was confirmed a few months later when he was quoted by the DC Nation Twitter account: "There are very few characters that are, to me, as irredeemable as The Joker. There is nothing in him that is good."

Wow, what close analysis from Mr. Emotional Build.

Look, I don't need Joker to be redeemed or woobified. (Ask me about the "Pushback" storyline from 2004 and hear my gnashing teeth crack a filling.) But I would like the full breadth of his character acknowledged, especially when you're claiming you're writing about trauma, especially when you're creating a "spiritual sequel" to one of best known Joker stories (if not the best known one).

Then Three Jokers finally came out, and over three months it proved to be neither an examination of healing nor very interesting, at least not in an enjoyable way. What it has to "say" about trauma, for any of the characters, is no different than the limited conclusion made in previous Batman books: mainly the drumbeat of fighting off the darkness by being a bigger person— or at least not killing your enemy. Making Joker into a role played by three different people adds nothing; it amounts to little more than a gimmick.

Hell, even as a gimmick, it's flawed. Theoretically, the three Jokers represent phases of personality the Joker has embodied over the years— but the representations we get don't make sense. Here they are summed up in Book 3:

Sorry, what? The Criminal is less interested in theatrics? In what time period was the Joker ever not interested in making a big show of things in one way or another? Maybe this is supposed to be an "early" Joker in terms of the Rebirth/InfiniCrisisDarkCarnateTier/whatever more recent conception of him, but I'll wager that's not what people think about when they think of Joker at his start. They think about Golden Age Joker doing goofy shit and laughing maniacally. They're not expecting this morose man.

The other thing is that, in Book 1, the narrative "assigns" each of our three protagonists to a Joker: Bruce to the Criminal, who appeared at the start; Barbara to the Comedian, who shot her; and Jason to the Clown, who killed him. Now at first I thought Johns was saying one Joker took over after another, but since Barbara's attack and Jason's death happened 9 months apart in 1988, which are not different Joker eras, I think we're supposed to see them as sort of… cycling on and off depending on the needs of the scheme? Maybe? But the descriptions above are still confusing. Why am I supposed to see the Joker who got carried away with the fun of beating Jason with a crowbar and successfully blew him up as less sadistic than the other one?

Johns does appear to lampshade this confusion in the middle of Book 1, when we get all three Jokers in a cabin in the woods. The Clown and the Comedian have this exchange:

This and a later panel with the Comedian actually imply that he and the Clown are interchangeable, even though they're supposed to be different. So are they or not? Is there an actual reason we need three Jokers, or did Johns just think it was a neato idea and then spend four years trying to figure out a "layered" justification for it?

The other thing about this cabin scene, and about the Joker trio largely, is that it should be fun and it's not. There should be chaos! Zaniness! At the very least, all the narcissism in the room should generate a competitive friction, make their interactions more dynamic. (Really it should generate bloodshed and end with one man standing within like ten minutes, but I'll grant the choice to save that for Book 3.) Instead it's almost mundane. The cabin isn't even decorated! It's dark and dreary, like the Jokers are dark and dreary. If we're gonna have three Jokers, can't they at least be Jokering with each other?

The same thought comes when I consider the very beginning of Book 1. It all starts out like a typical Batman story: three deadly crimes are committed in one night, the Joker seemingly responsible for all of them, and Bruce, Barbara, and Jason are drawn together as they try to figure out what's up. Of course, thanks to the Magic Chair, Bruce already knows there are three clowns, but Barbara and Jason are thinking that Joker is working with two look-alikes to create confusion. And considering the basics of what happens in this story, what the Comedian's larger plan is meant to accomplish, why couldn't this have been written with just two look-alikes? I mean, yeah, it would require Johns to forget about his continuity bomb, but maybe the story would have been better (and shorter). Again, the creation of other Jokers isn't doing much for what the plot is getting at. The three crimes that start us off would still serve the function of reminding Bruce of how Joker's been a constant in his life. The taunting of a convincing Joker look-alike is enough to set off Jason's anger and sadness about what happened to him, and his fears of what he could become. The climax with Joe Chill would have to be redone, but the threat of him being Jokerized isn't the crucial plot point; the Comedian's film of him is. Bruce doesn't even have any substantial thoughts about there being three of his nemesis.

But, alas, the story goes how it goes. And as it goes, we also see that Jason behaves more cruelly in his search for Joker than Barbara and Bruce. For example, Jason attacks and threatens one of Joker's victims to get information, feeling justified because the guy has a rap sheet, while Barbara scolds him and Bruce tells the victim, "I'm sorry this happened." What I find notable about this is that while comics regularly present Jason as hot-headed and Barbara as reasonable, Bruce… uh… If you gather a random selection of Batman comics, you'll find that his level of violence is all over the place. This story, however, requires a more somber Bruce, whose violence is more reactive, because Jason and Barbara serve Johns' dichotomy of "heal right" versus "heal wrong." We can't have Bruce on the sadistic side of the scale fucking that up, and besides, Jason's long been the posterboy for healing "wrong."

That notion comes to a head at the end of the issue. The heroes have encountered and subdued the Clown at the aquarium when Jim Gordon calls. The GCPD found another Joker, and Bruce leaves Jason and Barbara alone with the Clown to assist.

Goodness me, who could have predicted Jason might kill a restrained Joker? Not Bruce, who absolutely should have. Barbara is there to talk Jason down, sure, but what else is the Clown gonna do but needle Jason to kill him?

The Clown cackles then, declaring that Red Hood is his Robin, for the very reason of his violent impulses and how much he upsets the Bat, and of course Jason shoots him in the head, because oof.

Honestly, on this second read I found this scene a smidge too oof. Jason was a determined little Robin, dedicated to saving his awful mother to the very end, and him cracking and declaring that he'll work for a criminal… I don't know. I don't think it's impossible, but it feels superfluous. I don't think such a reveal is necessary to get Jason to fire. I think the Clown focusing on how the new Red Hood is actually quite similar to the old, as well as how Jason matters less than the neverending battle between Batman and Joker, is enough emotional stress to get to the same end result.

But that's a minor quibble; we've got bigger fish to fry! Such as the specter of the "healed right/healed wrong" dynamic that reappears as Barbara and Jason argue over the Clown's corpse.

Barbara leaves angrily after this, but man. I wish the story overall took more cues from this scene, that in a Black Label story we could stray from the simplistic idea of how a Good One would save Joker and a Bad One wouldn't. I want to explore Jason's assertion that Barbara didn't do her best to uphold Bruce's one rule. I want to know if maybe she's tired of being the fucking Good One.

Hell, let's go further: what if we were surprised by Barbara killing the Clown before Jason could? The Clown's taunting about Jason could have gotten to her too. We could have a story about how being put on a pedestal as a Good Victim is a cage, about Barbara struggling with falling from that position, about Jason feeling unsure if he should commend her for an act that obviously hurts her or comfort her for something he would have done himself. That's an actual examination of the struggle to process violent trauma— that you don't need three Jokers for!

But the story we have never gets back to Jason's suggestion that Barbara let the murder happen, not in this issue or the following two. This issue just ends with Jason hoping that the Clown was the actual Joker and that he didn't kill the wrong guy, which is a pretty "LOL oh yeah" line when you remember that he and Barbara don't know there are three Jokers yet.

Book 1, truth be told, isn't that bad. On my reread, I started to wonder if my only real issue with the story is that it's not as engaging as all the hype insisted it would be.

Then Book 2 starts, and goddammit. GODDAMMIT.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: why can we not have more DC writers having fun with Joker's multiple-choice backstory? Why did Johns read The Killing Joke and decide his interpretation would be this?:

Ugh. UGGGHHH.

I don't recall the issue, but there's these panels that circulate sometimes of Harley Quinn encountering Joker in Arkham or prison, in which they exchange words about their relationship and he's a creep and she kicks his ass. I have no problem with Harley kicking Joker's ass. He deserves it. My problem is that those panels play out like an empowerment scene in a generic Lifetime movie. My problem is that it doesn't have the flavor of Harley and Joker. My problem is that it's lazy.

And that's my problem with what Johns does with Joker's backstory in TKJ. He could take it anywhere, and he goes gritty without an ounce of nuance. Because hey, this is Joker, and "there is nothing in him that is good," right? We'll just ignore that one of DC's all-time classics, the one this garbage is ✨inspired by✨, has Joker reflecting on a past for which he is an unreliable narrator, but in which he laments how his comedy dream put his growing family in a bad spot, in which he desperately aligns with shady people so his family can be secure, in which he's devastated by losing the only person he has in the world and their growing baby. And these memories could be distorted or entirely fake, but what's interesting in TKJ is that Joker never tells anyone else about them, even in his big speech to Batman. The flashbacks are not part of an attempt to manipulate anyone or convince them his world view is correct. It's a tale in Joker's head that, regardless of the truth, deeply affects him. It's what drove him to go to horrendous lengths to prove his point, even if the point is wrong.

But fuck that, right? We're going lazy! We're going cheap! We're going with the Jeannie backstory, but actually Joker was only terrible to her. The Comedian fondly fantasizes about terrorizing her and their son, because he's 100% an abuser, because he must have always been that way, with not a single appealing quality that we need to reckon with as we so often do with toxic people in real life. Even the freaking stutter Joker had as he struggled with stand-up comedy is given to Jeannie. Seriously?

I cannot emphasize enough: fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck this "take."

On the other hand, when the Comedian is brought out of his stupor, we do finally get something super funny:

At least we'll always have this panel of Joker eating cat food.

The Criminal only interrupted the daydream because he's mad the Clown is dead, and the Clown was so eager to be dead I thought it was part of their plan buuuuuuut I guess not. Then we jump to Bruce figuring out that the "Joker" that Gordon cornered is just another victim, a dead judge. Barbara appears to tell Bruce what Jason did, and they discuss it over comms on the road.

Bruce, shockingly, says that they can't really do anything about what Jason did.

Pretty sure the guy who batarang'd Jason's throat rather than let him kill Joker would have a more intense reaction than this?? Or any reaction other than sober understanding? Maybe Bruce is still coping with finally dealing with three Jokers at once and will flip his shit when this all resolves. Or maybe he's just thinking, "it's okay, I still have two emotional support clowns left!" I don't know. He's so weirdly passive in this story.

What's more aggravating, though, is the other aspect of this conversation, that Jason "healed wrong." It would be one thing as a pat judgment Bruce is making, but we know from that interview that Johns positioned "healed right versus healed wrong" as the story's theme. It's not good. It's way too glib a framing for evaluating how people who've gone through trauma are dealing with it, in any context. Sure, there are better and worse coping mechanisms, better and worse outcomes, but healing is an ongoing process that can be so individualized. Reducing it to "right" and "wrong," saying that one is "strong" and implying that the other comes from some sort of deficiency… I hope Johns just spoke poorly and he does understand that it's not that simple.

Now, is it a stretch to apply that critique to Jason killing criminals at his whim? Sure, deciding that you personally should play the role of judge, jury, and executioner is not a good way to deal with trauma. But that's not exactly what's happening here. This "healed right versus healed wrong" framing is being applied to Jason Todd and the Joker. Obviously, I like Joker, but can we be real about this? Can we be real in a Black Label book, the imprint where comic books (allegedly) have room to take things more seriously? Can we take the question of, "In this fictional world where Joker is an unstoppable fatal mayhem machine— now THREE machines— is it completely out of bounds for someone to finally kill him?" and be like, "Errr…not really?" When this story explicitly denies Joker even one teeny redeeming human quality, are we seriously still going to say, "Well, you know, if Jason takes the life of the man who murdered him and millions other people, because he doesn't want him to kill more people, which Joker will absolutely do and we all know it, doesn't that say something awful about Jason?" Are we really??

Plus the judgment about healing is put into the mouth of a man who— say it with me!— regularly dresses as a bat and beats the ever-loving shit out of people because his parents were murdered. Toning Bruce down in this particular story doesn't hide that.

Although, what I think is intended as a flawed assumption on Bruce's part is his other line, "Jason's suffering." It implies that Barbara still isn't, but we are shown Barbara reflecting on her paralyzation, even now when she's "strong" and has healed "right." And the story will get into this a bit later, but it absolutely does not let Barbara and Jason escape the dichotomy. To the story's detriment, their interactions go in a wild direction, but we'll get to that.

First, Bruce and Barbara's investigation leads them to Blackgate, because the fingerprints on the murder weapon for the dead judge belong to none other than Joe Chill. However, we learn that Chill has been in the medical wing for two months because he's sick with cancer.

Meanwhile, Jason's investigation leads him to a closed athletic center. The pool inside is filled with the chemicals stolen from Ace at the start of the story, as well as dozens of pale naked bodies with green hair. Jason's attempt to contact Barbara is interrupted when one of said bodies bursts to life and grabs his ankle, asking for help. Jason reacts with hostility, kicking the poor guy, and I'm not sure if it's because he's unnerved by a room of floating Jokers or if it's pretty normal for him to not keep his cool even for the sake of an obvious victim of a horrible crime. A Gotham City vigilante can't be that shocked by one guy being alive in a pile of bodies, can they?

But that's all setup. When the guy falls unconscious, the Criminal and the Comedian ambush Jason and drag him away, one saying, "He'll be perfect."

It's a line that meanly gets your hopes up, poking at a subject that could make all this more interesting.

Jason awakes, strapped to a chair and as naked as the bodies in the pool. The Criminal says he and his pals have spent a lot of time trying to find the perfect candidate for a new Joker, and he repeats the question of what's up with Jason taking on the Red Hood moniker.

It seems that, like DCAU Tim Drake in Batman Beyond before him, Jason Todd will be transformed into a fourth Joker! But it won't only be because it will wreck the Batman. It'll be because Joker already sees himself in Jason. This is something new to explore! There are places to go here; other comics hinting at Joker's past point to him having a childhood not dissimilar to Jason's, of growing up on the street, experiencing abuse, and learning unpalatable ways to survive. We could see Jason struggling with the possibility that he has more in common with Joker than he wants to think about!

But we won't. Inexplicably, the Criminal turns around and says that despite their similarities, despite Jason hating Batman as much as he does, despite the Comedian (presumably) saying Jason is perfect, and despite getting Jason ready for the pool, Jason actually isn't good enough, not "bright" enough. (Because all the Jokers we have in this dour story are so bright?)

And then the Comedian just beats the hell out of Jason (saying it's more fun than the first time, in another annoying nod to how he and the Clown are the same damn Joker) and says they're leaving Jason alive because maybe he'll prove them wrong and he'll become a new Joker after all? But the current Jokers aren't really going to go for it. Their interest is just abandoned.

The point is only to freak Jason out, so when Bruce and Barbara arrive, fight a hoard of Jokerized victims, and find Jason alone and naked and vulnerable, he does not react well when Bruce tries to ask if he's okay. Jason turns on him and blames him for setting him on this path, for leaving him in the dirt, for replacing him easily. He lashes out at Barbara too, asking if she's going to lock him away, but ultimately it's easier to take comfort from her.

A direct reference to Return of the Joker here, focusing on the shadow Batman casts over the lives of his partners, the responsibility he bears in how Joker targeted them to hurt the Bat, and how poorly he offers comfort himself.

It does segue nicely into the next scene, when Bruce and Barbara get Jason to her apartment to rest. Bruce leaves to keep investigating, and Barbara is pissed because this is the exact lack of support that contributed to Jason going his own way. Support is highlighted again when Jason wakes in Barbara's room and looks around.

Aside from Barbara seeking out books to deal with her physical and mental struggles after Joker's attack, the old calendars show the help she received from her father and health professionals.

And this scene does get into something that's missing from TKJ, in which Bruce tells Joker that no, not everyone will retreat to madness like he did. How we react to trauma is greatly affected by the resources available to us.

This scene is nice. It's nice to come from the action to some place quiet and for someone to say this Jason, something he's wanted to hear. It's late in coming, but it's pain validated.

And then Johns fucking ruins it.

Man. Just. Ugh. Yeah, I know people seek comfort in moments of vulnerability, but… the reader knows. The reader knows moments like this aren't included to be like "oh, this was an isolated blip of human behavior! The story won't call back to it later!" Johns apparently wants Barbara/Jason to be a thing. And if you want a solid reason for that… well, we don't get any good ones.

Meanwhile, Bruce is in the cave, and I'm only mentioning that because these folder labels are incredibly funny:

Then the issue ends with Joe Chill kidnapped from Blackgate by the Comedian, who has a video camera and asks him to talk about why he really killed the Waynes. Dun dun dunnnnnnnn! Is that a twist on the way?! Well, yeah, but not really the one you think and it's incredibly stupid.

Finally we are at Book 3. Jason is suited back up, and he and Barbara have met up with Bruce in the cave to figure out how the Jokers plan to create another, better Joker.

Soooooo Jason and Barbara had that whole conversation. Jason was shaken by what the Jokers said to him. But now he's completely back on track. Allllllrighty.

Jason and Bruce then have an argument rehashing everything that Barbara said she was sorry Jason experienced, with Bruce saying of course he'd love to kill the Joker, and Jason pointing out that he obviously hasn't. Jason also says he thinks the only reason Bruce isn't turning Jason in for killing the Clown is to protect Batman's identity. Barbara just tries to de-escalate with her doe eyes. They're back to the status quo, and it sucks, which is the point. When they try to get back to the investigation at hand, Bruce pauses and attempts to apologize.

And again, with this blatant TKJ reference, it feels like we need to dig into the parallels between Jason and Joker! They both insist it's too late! They won't take help! But surely Jason isn't as far gone! There's something to chew on here.

But nah, this story is heading toward a big ol' revelation, foreshadowed here:

🎶 Why the fuck you lyin'? 🎶

Finally they get the alert that Joe Chill was kidnapped, and on investigating his cell, Bruce finds a bunch of letters addressed to… himself, Bruce Wayne. He seeks out the prison reverend.

Which is unintentionally hilarious, because in the storyline that started this whole three Jokers nonsense, there's a Batman Darkseid War one-shot where Joe Chill's behavior does not remotely align with this.

Lol comics are fun.

In the middle of Bruce investigating the letters, we get Jason being all repentant with Babs again.

You just said? You totally were?? Gonna kill more clowns??? How is this supposed to come off as genuine? Granted, Jason doesn't try to kill the other Jokers after this, but the apparently impetus for reversing course is... uh... we'll get there.

Anyway, among Chill's letters are tickets to the Monarch Theater, so the heroes all head over for whatever the Jokers have set up for them, which of course includes another hoard of failed Joker zombies. During the fight, the Comedian's interview of Joe Chill plays on the screen, and the Criminal reveals they have Chill tied up in a chair suspended over a vat of green chemicals.

As Chill on screen explains that he killed the Waynes out of hatred and envy for how much they had, and how much he regrets his actions, the Criminal explains that he considered both Jason and Barbara as strong candidates for the new Joker. And wait. WAIT. Mr. Johns, sir, are you telling me it crossed your mind to write a story in which Barbara becomes the new Joker? That's so much more interesting than the bullshit we're getting! Imagine it: Barbara dealing with the dissatisfaction of being the "good, strong victim" and just losing her shit. You could combine that with how uneasy Jason is with his similarities to Joker, and maybe Jason is the one who convinces Barbara to turn back. This is Black Label! This could've been anything! Anything!

But we've got Chill. And the Criminal goes on to say the reason he wanted to make a new Joker at all:

Are… are you? I'm pretty sure Joker is pretty well fucking defined. He's a murderer with a very dark sense of humor who is obsessed with Batman. That's been a pretty good through-line.

Also, Joker pretty clearly means a lot to Batman, as that middle panel with Jason seems intended to remind us, but the Criminal does clarify that he wants to be "everything" to him, which is why he's pulling Bruce's parents' murderer into all this. I guess I can't blame him for reaching for the stars?

Cue big fight scene. The Chill recording continues to explain his regret, and soon the theater is on fire. Batman saves Chill and knocks the Criminal unconscious. Chill thinks Batman is going to kill him, but Bruce saves him from a falling brick wall instead— before the Criminal revives and tries to set off a bomb to kill them all, maybe. There's a BOOM flag sticking out of the dynamite a few panels later, after the Comedian shows up and shoots the Criminal in the head. TWIST!

The Comedian surrenders, and after a scene with Jason picking the most awkward time to suggest he and Barbara try being a couple and Barbara looking pissed she has to tell him no, we jump to Bruce and the Comedian in the armored police car.

As a batjokes shipper, looking at these pages is weird, because they are good food for the brainworms. The Criminal wanted to engineer a Joker who meant the most to Batman, but the Comedian wanted to be that Joker. It's a weird plan, considering that Joker prefers Batman over Bruce Wayne, so he would be more likely to not want to heal Bruce's wound lest the healing lead to less Batmanning, but still. This crazy plan is all about maintaining Batman's attention.

But I can only enjoy these panels out of context, not just because I'm pretty weary of insanely elaborate plans that manage to work out, but also because there's just so much to hate in the rest of the story, especially the real twist that closes it out.

Before we get to that, though, we're thrown back into the Jason/Barbara nonsense with a very gross letter he writes to her.

"Dear Barbara, I want to make a change. But I can't do that without you. I know I've come across cold and distant…"

1) Look, love can help people heal. Barbara could be a good friend advising Jason on what might help him. She could help bring him back into the batfam fold. This letter is not that. This letter is pushing someone to be in a romantic relationship with you for the explicit purpose of getting them to heal you. That's not how love works. That's using someone as a tool. It's supposed to be sad that Barbara never sees the letter but it's good, actually. Don't put that shit on her!

2) This romance came out of freaking nowhere and now we get Jason insisting he can simply stop being Red Hood for the sake of it— but only for the sake of it, apparently! Does Jason think his worldview as Red Hood is an impediment to healing or not? This is just surface-level melodramatic nonsense. And I wish that was the point, but no. Again, the letter getting swept away is presented as sad.

3) Speaking of which, who tapes a confessional letter that exposes your vigilante identity to a door where anyone can see it? You'd slip it under the door at least. Johns couldn't figure out any other way for the letter to vanish? Get out of here with this contrived nonsense. There should've been panels of Jason rereading the letter, realizing how unhinged it is, and throwing it away himself.

4) Is the "Funtime Cleaners" guy in his purple uniform supposed to be Joker? Or representative of Joker's influence on their lives? If yes and it's him, he's a goddamn hero. If it's symbolic, what does that mean, that even when you reach out to others… elements out of your control will keep you alone? 'Cause that sure is bleak for a book allegedly about healing.

With all that done with, now we get to the big twist, the dumbest fucking part of this story, the end, the takeaway. Of course it involves more crimes against The Killing Joke, which I'm increasingly convinced no one at DC has actually read in the past thirty years.

Bruce drives up to Alaska, and we get this reveal.

Do the kids still *headdesk* nowadays? That's what I'm doing. There will be a blood stain.

1) So Bruce has known the Joker's identity, or at least the Comedian's, basically the whole time. We're just retconning that the Joker question he asked the Magic Chair wasn't for information; it was a second test question. And all this is in the face of Bruce lamenting many times over the years that he doesn't know who Joker really is, of him lamenting it in The Killing goddamn Joke. "I don't know him, Alfred. All these years and I don't know who he is any more than he knows who I am. How can two people hate so much without knowing each other?" We're just. Fucking excising that. A line alluding to Bruce's motivation for visiting Joker in TKJ's opening scene.

2) We're rounding out the lazy revisions to the TKJ backstory with some copaganda! Geoff Johns doesn't think it's possible for Joker to have been anything but a horror to his family, but he does think it's possible that random officers in the friggin' Gotham City Police Department— in early Batman lore no less, when they were at their most corrupt— would fundraise for a "lady" they clearly don't know to get her out of the city to safety. Also, what was the plan for when Joker asked to see his wife's dead body?? Congrats, you've come up with something dumber than "Pushback."

3) This scrawls more highlighter on how bad the premise of there being three Jokers is, because the flashback in TKJ happens before Joker starts out. Like that's how Bruce always recalls it; he didn't meet the Joker until after what happened at Ace Chemicals. So isn't Jeannie then actually the Criminal's wife? Because the Criminal is the one who behaves as Bruce remembers Joker was at the start. So is the Comedian obsessed with the Criminal's wife for some reason? Or is the Comedian actually the first Joker, and the Criminal came later and used to be more wacky? What is going on here?

Under all these questions, per the final page, the point of Three Jokers is still visible: ultimately, his victims matter more than he does. But that's a hilarious point to a story that revolves around three of the guy, with very little payoff to the gimmick, and when part of the plot is that the heroes still shouldn't kill him.

And again, just because a story makes reference to healing, it doesn't mean it's "about" healing. The most we get is the knowledge that Barbara and Jeannie received support from other people. There's no discussion of how long it took either of them, of why Barbara came out the other side not wanting to kill Joker, of anything Jeannie has done since she left Gotham. The possibility that Jason could find connection is promptly throttled by a forced romance. It's implied that the Comedian's plan worked for Bruce, as we see Bruce at Chill's deathbed, holding his hand, and at Chill's grave. You might be interested in Bruce's thoughts as he juxtaposes Chill's repentance against the fact that his parents are still dead, so you can assess if this really would affect the feeling of loss that drove him to his lifelong mission, but you won't get them. The "how" of healing is up to the reader— who is never asked to extend the same thought process to the Joker. And you personally do not have to give a crap about Joker, but again, if this book is supposed to be about responses to healing, about Jason's response versus Barbara's, then taking an actual look at Joker feels relevant!

So there we are: fourteen pages of me venting my little heart out, hoping the premise of Three Jokers never gets looped into canon. I'm well aware that my personal attachment to a character means nothing against DC's incentives to promote stories with Big Twists (and endless events and multiverse bullshit), but then again, those incentives are based on what people will buy. So if I can add to the voices saying that Three Jokers is bad, and you should not spend your money on it or books like it, maybe I can be one vibe of many that keeps the Joker as one single bat-obsessed murderclown...

Though if not, I can always retreat to older comics. I still have plenty of those to get through.

#dc #long post #three jokers

139 notes · View notes

shoezuki · 4 years ago

Text

Tommy's prison/revival arc isnt well written actually

Anyways ive been wanting to talk on it a while for a bit here but havent had the Time or like. The thought to. But im gonna go off now.

First off im gonna say im ASSUMING this stream and plot of tommy being in the prison with dream is written entirely by tommy and dream. Wilbur May be involved in the latest stream but im not sure.

Bringing tommy back to life after only three days of him being dead did practically nothing to progress plot, the characters, or audience's understanding. In fact i feel that it damaged Other characters' potential and plot and already established plotlines.

The 'development' aspect

A really, really easy way to see if anything has changed or developed through an arc or plotline is to straightup just compare the 'beginning' to the 'end' in terms of the barebones situation. So;

Beginning: tommy is trapped in an isolated prison cell with dream, his own abuser who has hurt him in the past, for an unknown amount of time. He's terrified of dream and being stuck there with him.

End: tommy is trapped in an isolated prison cell with dream after being killed then revived by him, his own abuser whos hurt him in the past, for an unknown amount of time. Hes terrified of dream and being stuck there with him.

Okay. This is simplified obvious. But the point stands. ALTHOUGH the troupe of 'going back to the beginning' is common in the heroes journey its. It doesnt work here. Has tommy learned anything? Has he changed as a character? Is the severity of their situation any different? Have we, as the audience, learned anything new?

Im going to expand on that last point because i think it has the strongest potential argument. Technically for progression in literature and development of plot/characters, things can Change without them being Aware as characters. It can change just by the audience's perception changing or being challenge.

Slight example: i've been reading a webcomic called Your Throne. Its a fantasy/political drama about a noble lady who entered a competition with another noble lady to become the empress. The main lady lost despite her being a better fit, and the comic starts with the main lady trying to assassinate the empress. Its assumed and stated by the main lady that she 'ruined her life' and so thats all the readers know. However, later in the novel we see flashbacks to the competition itself and find that the two ladies were extremely close friends, neither wanting anything bad for the other, but it was the emperor himself who manipulated both of them for his own agenda. Those flashbacks gave us an entirely different idea of who the real antagonist is and completely changed the two main ladies' relationship. THAT is how the audience's understanding of the plot and novel can be used to change the entire story. We dont get such here though

Some things that were brought to light during tommy being dead/revived:

Dream is capable of reviving people infinitely

This was already implicated and assumed. The book dream has being a means of reviving people has been around Technically since schlatt's death. This just 'confirmed' what was known

Time works differently/feels longer in the afterlife

This doesnt really impact much beyond emotions and implications. If we had more insight into what the 'afterlife' is like beyond nothingness perhaps so. But really it just makes it so wilbur being dead for what feels like 9 years and tommy having been dead for 2 months appeal to emotions.

Wilbur is evil

This one fuckin sucks i cant lie HSKSHSISSGEGDV. Like i was gon go on bout it and i will but it jus sucks. We have nothing to go on besides tommy's word, no examlles of what Horrible things wilbur said could make tommy assume this, etcetc. Ill most likely make a seperate post on how this feels like we're just going to get 'wilbur is a horrible villain' type with him. But still. I feel wilbur Not Being Good isnt a new development.

Dream is going to revive wilbur

This doesnt feel new either, part because phil had wanted to revive wilbur before (ill get to that more later) and that tommy had kept dream alive/initially imprisoned him with the idea of him reviving wilbur.

Dream believes wilbur will break him out of prison

Okau this makes no sense to me actually. I cwnt understand How exactly wilbur would be able to do this? Or why dream believes he even Could? Mans been dead for like 9 years and all we Know of the afterlife is that its black... nothingness. How would 9 years of that make wilbur capable of busting the prison open?

So. Yeah. All in all this plotline hasnt done anything new, developed things, or altered people's perceptions. We just ended up back at square one. Back to tommy being traumatized, dream being 'evil' and horrible and doing villain monologues, and them being stuck together.

Other characters and plotlines

Im pretty damn sure tommy's revival fucked up a LOT of other characters' plotlines and potential development. Honestly i feel this has a lot to do with the writers not communicating with other ccs well enough. But Ill talk about specific characters from least to most fucked over in my opinion:

Sam

He's the best off. He hqd been there during tommy's death, had been close to tommy, had majorly blamed himself and his own mistakes for tommy's death. His grief and self hatred was actually really heartbreaking and well done. The attached character of Sam Nook being unaware of tommy's death and simply waiting for tommy to return was a really good parallel to sam's own grief and anger. like it really snapped sam the guy who cares for tommy and wants to do Right by him back together with him as the Warden of the prison. Mixed personal life with 'just business'.

I feel it wouldve been nice to have him like. Have more time to grieve properly and come to terms eith tommy's death and his own involvement/influence over the events. Him finding tommy alive again Could be a means of him like. Facing his own grief head on if done well.

Ranboo

Mostly in the context of him and sam's argument do i feel it got screwed over. The weight of them yelling at each other and trying to find who to blame and the implications that Maybe ranboo was the one who caused the security breach that closed down the prison on tommy just.... doesnt hit so hard anymore. Because how can there be blame and arguments and a 'who done it' mystery when tommy popped up all fine again?

Puffy

I dony know much of her involvement or how she found out tommy died (besides metagaming shhhhh) but i saw her monologuing of how they 'failed' tommy and like. Her whole 'he was so young we the Adults failed him' spiel is like........... inconsequential? Now??? Like no dont worry he died but hes alright now.

Philza

BET YOU DIDNY EXPECT TO SEE THIS FUCKER!!!!!! But actually though i want to talk bout how this ties into phil. A LOT. for Zalbr ❤. But also because i see ppl tying phil to tommy's death n like nah shutup u doin it wrong. Ill go off more in a Wilbur Post. But essentially: i dont like that dream is now going to revive wilbur. I feel they arent going to tie philza into this Despite phil having originally been trying to revive his son and studying on it and Attempting and Failing. But now suddenly dream can just. Say some magic words and Poof wilbur lives? So we're just going to Kill philza's revival attempts plotline and leave that hanging? This made his efforts seem pointless and Wack like oh why didnt you just Say The Magic Words phil????

Niki

I feel really bad for niki. She hasnt been able to do a lore stream during tommy's 'death' (she tweeted she wanted to but her computer wasnt working) and considering her entire character.... that shit is important. We seen it with Jack Manifold how tommy's death impacted Him considering he literally wanted tommy dead. And since niki is in a similar boat to jack of trying to kill tommy and it being her Only goal...... thats extremely important.

BUT. i feel there wasnt any communication. Did she or anyone even know tommy would be revived? Did no one consider they could At Least let her do a single stream on it? Like jack manifold????

We couldve gotten a Really good niki lore stream. I genuinely was so excited for it and i dont regularly watch her. But we seen it with jack manifold which is why i dont feel he got screwed because mans genuinely did So Good he could pop off with anything n i think it works in His favour. But now........ for niki. Canonically she never even knew tommy was Dead. So its like nothing even happened for her. Is she just supposed to continue on trying to kill tommy with no progression?

What i think would work

This is more me being like 'hey @ the dsmp writers let me in' type speculation sbosegussgs. But i was thinkin on a Really easy way to 'fix' this without rewriting lore and the streams.

Dream should kill tommy again now that he's been revived and Leave Him Dead.

More development for the characters who are affected by his death Especially niki. More time for grief and self reflection and development

A chance for the audience to figure out what the 'afterlife' really is.

Dream is supposed to be smart and a master manipulator or something right? Why doesnt he use being able to revive tommy as a bargaining chip with sam for his own freedom?

The audience would now Know dream's intentions with tommy better, that this death isnt 'final', but we could still see other characters' grief and reactions and coping without it feeling cheap. Ive seen some 'but people dont know tommy is alive so hes still dead in their mind' but that sucks imo.

We'd know more on dream's ability to revive people and that he can just Do It on a whim (which i think sucks but hey im trying) but no one else would know this canonically

Okay. Im done. If you read this. Thankyou. I love you. Hmu.

#mcyt #dream smp #dream smp critical #tommyinnit #dream #im puttin this in main tags took me too fuckin long to write for me Not to #death mention #ask to tag

69 notes · View notes

papers4me · 3 years ago

Note

Hi, I have always read your furuba reviews and I'm very curious about which are your favorite characters and why?

HI!

Thank you for reading my posts<3. I know I've been slow lately, but I'm not in a right emotional place right now, but I'll be back to posting soon. Actually talking abt furuba & story-telling here in tumblr is such a peaceful outlet that I'm thankful for.

While I love 97% of furuba characters, my faves kept changing while I watched the anime. I decided to have 5 top characters as faves & number one kept changing as the anime progressed.

Since I'm all abt story-telling, I think I need to separate the anime from the manga cuz no way in the anime that tohru would be on my top 5, heck not even top 10! I really don't like how her character was reduced to yuki's mommy-tohru, then angel-tohru, then villain-fixer tohru. The real individual tohru with her own personal story is just two eps long, so meh~. Also, while yuki is in my top 5 in the anime, I don't like how he's too perfect & prince in the anime while his own theme is the imperfect non-prince. Kyo's, too in my top 5 but I dont like how his own story is intentionally messed up by the anime with the stupid "I forgot" that contradicts the anime's own canon plot...

So, I'll tell you my top 5 fave character in the manga so fat with no particular order.

Tohru, while I'm yet to uncover her own plot in the manga, so far she has way more character exploration & depth!! She really feels like a different character from the anime! I'm shocked! The facial expressions, the occasional doubtful self-talk, even the "fake-smile"mask she puts is so expressive. She is treated as a character with a personal plot , regardless of being the protagonist. Her own plot is not reliant on being yuki's mommy, or the sohma's shrink, or a fixer. Her own plot line is abt grief & being lonely. It's the most common struggle that we all share regardless of our gender, race, financial status. Death is the ultimate fact & we'll face loosing a loved one & feeling lonely is not related to social skills nor being loved. I'll forever hate the anime for passing on such unique universal theme in favor of emphasizing the most popular shonen-themed coming of age story ( a boy becoming a man) "yuki" or the over-exaggerated drama in "kyo's". Like I dont want them to pass any of the 3 characters plotlines, but the anime made a choice & forever cemented anime tohru as the most "fixer"character in anime history like 98765678 of other female protagonists.

Yuki has way more character & realness in the manga. He doesnt come off as narrator-y as he does in the anime simply cuz the anime only chose the parts where yuki narrates as a voice-over & told us how to feel & dropped all the parts where he's interacting & actually talking to other characters not just the audience. His own personal story is abt "observing, learning & having the guts to make a move & embracing his own imperfection". I love this! Anime yuki is not imperfect. no. he's the icon of perfect prince, he even initiates a set of fanclub girls into the world that they float! He's so perfect, he "heals" a girl simply by talking to her once. That's all it takes him to fall in love & find his soulmate. While in the manga, I'm starting to see yuki display signs of "kind jerk" in the making, that's refreshing!

I admit that I didn't include kyo into my top 5 until se02. Don't get me wrong, he's so endearing since ep1, but didnt seem to be complex nor refreshing as the others. but se02, ep 9 was the first glimpse into his own character depth & I got hooked! I'm so in love with the theme of "repeated mistakes & guilt". it's such a mature theme & speaks to a much wider audience. The more we repeat the same mistakes, the more we self-sabotage our lives. Also, I love the love isn't a magic healing element in his story. He's the most loved character by tohru, yet her love only hurt him more due to his guilt. Moreover, the romantic element itself wasnt a cliche "love at 1st sight, nor lovers since childhood, nor girl fixes a guy, nor guy protects the girl from danger". Not at all. It was "love blooming subtly, little by little by mundane daily life". I cant express how much I applaud Takaya-san for such complex writing. In the anime, kyo only comes when it's his ep, other than that, he's absent or characterless. I hated that. So far in the manga, kyo has an existence even in other plotlines & has different aspects of his character. Also, I'm shocked at how much inner dialogue he has! like no too much that it involves other character nor too little that you dont understand him. It's just the right amount.

Momiji. He's the most balanced character. He isnt fixed by tohru, but isnt perfectly fine either. He's the definition of the right amount of kindness. He doesn sell himself to make other happy like tohru or kureno, nor puts himself in danger to save others like haru. He does help others but also helps himself. He helped his mom forget him cuz honestly that wasnt even his choice. it's the dad's. He participated willingly tho in avoiding her, but he didnt dwell in self pity & locked himself emotionally. He let go of loving tohru & encouraged kyo, but while he genuinely loved kyo, he didnt just back off cuz he's kind & a sacrificial angel. He stood like a man & challenged kyo for tohru's heart, but let go when he realized the choice is tohru's. not them. They can love her aromatically, but she's the one who decides who to be with. I love the theme of "not competing for love". it's not a competition really. never was. Still, as love sick & heart-broken as he was, momiji didnt dwell in self-pity & after allowing himself to heal, he bounced back & smiled. Momiji is no foolish traveler.

The spot is reserved to a certain character that I want the manga to prove their worth. I dont want them to be as shallow as the anime made them to be. I want to see depth. I dont know if the manga writes them better, but once I finish the manga, I'll know.

I wanted to add shigure but no. Despite all the complexity & the unique roles he has & despite how much I love characters with big giant flaws & ugly characteristics, shigre fell from my top 5 long ago. Look, this seems petty but I can't get over the fact that he slept with akito's mom. ewwwww. It makes me wanna puke! so disgusting. yuck yuck yuck! I dont mind that he "cheated"or wanted to "hurt akito by sleeping with ANOTHER woman". As a matter of fact, such acts create drama, ugly feelings & emotional struggle. I love such things in fiction. but he did it with the mother. He actually laid with both mom & daughter in his life. ewwwwww! This level of eww is so revolting to me! Some ppl are disgusted by bugs & worms that they want to puke, me.. when ppl sleep with both parent/off spring, or both siblings. Yuck! & it's even more yuck that it didnt stop their "love" from being real/ happy/ perfect/ passionate! & that it worked in making akito "want him more & be a "woman" for him"... ew!

lol, so yeah~here's my super long answer to ur super short qs. but I dont be "papers"if I didnt write till my fingers hurt, now would I? XD. I enjoyed ur question so much! thanks<3.

Anon, Don't get offended ny my shigure-rant! XD. its petty, I know. if u read this, tell me who's ur fave?

#fruits basket #anime only #manga reviwes #asks #responding paper #anonymous friends

13 notes · View notes

crystalizeyourmind · 1 year ago

Text

nah what i posted this like 5 minutes ago but i changed my mind cos he did know i wasnt all there to start with and was really nice and understanding about it until today when he decided i am too much work which is definitely fair enough but i dont feel like absolutely all of the blame is on my shoulders either. He always knew he was my only one even if i didn’t tell him how much i needed him he should have seen it. He is 40 years older than me a whole 60 year old man with 2 kids a house in his name and financially stable why is he the victim im the vulnerable one i haven’t got fuck all over him, fuck do you mean YOU feel mentally used. I don’t think for a second that im innocent but hes at least somewhat to blame here too im not the villain that hes made out. Im still not a good person for initiating something when i should have known im not mentally stable but im not a monster. I never could have been with him forever anyway i told him that from the start. I dont care im over it now going to drink this away and listen to the smiths all night cos im unstable and gay

i know exactly what i do wrong im too nervous but i cant help it. I stop taking my meds because i worry that i will become reliant on them but truthfully i already am. I had a good thing going and i fucked it cos im having a nervous break down. I don’t even know what about because im not scared of him but being around him just makes me feel so guilty. I told him he could sleep with other guys when im not able to be around but thats because i didn’t want him to be alone i dont think i ever made it clear that i am dependant on him and really didn’t want him to leave me for another. I feel like i hid how much i liked him because i didnt want him to find me annoying. He wants nothing to do with me anyway i cant blame him i wouldnt wait for me either but he doesnt even want to text me if we arent going to be forever. Hes the only person that has actually wanted to be around me in months man and now from now on i’ll never hear from him again and its my own fault and i know that but it still hurts. Im not a good person and im angry with myself about it, thats what hurts most, obviously im going to miss him incredibly too. Anyway ive cried, and i dont cry and my cat sat on my knee and licked my tears. Im gonna be fine. I just need to stay away from people because i just upset them and then i get so, so angry with myself and its not good for anyone. Im a parasite but at least i have the bollocks to admit that im bad.

3 notes · View notes

newtedison · 4 years ago

Text

my thoughts on the crank palace

i touched about this a bit on twitter (@newtedison_) but i figured i would Try and touch on my points more here (spoilers obv) again, its sort of lengthy

1. im gonna start with talking about the ending because i need to get it out of the way. either i havent read the books in a while and i forgot some canon (which could very well be true, i literally forgot that Bliss was a thing) or this ending makes no sense and is (somehow) setting up for a tdc sequel? so first off, newt was shot in the Head with a Bullet and somehow didnt immediately die? i know that that can happen in real life but it just seems so unlikely that not only would he not die, but he would survive long enough for someone from WCKD to transport him back to their labs and try to revive him. and who the fuck was he talking to? did thomas get newt’s journal at some point and i just dont remember? like i said, either im forgetting stuff or this ending doesnt make sense and is setting up a sequel which...i’ll get to later

2. why was this written? like, what was the point? i understand that this wasnt going to be all sunshine and rainbows but i feel like i was reading torture porn. like, literally all that happens is newt gets tortured (which is described in detail) by WCKD soldiers, has bouts of insane-fueled rage where he KILLS MULTIPLE PEOPLE, and then he dies. ??? what did this contribute to the canon? what was this trying to accomplish? truthfully, i never really wanted a newt-POV...well, anything except for maybe those little nuggets he wrote some time ago. but even if i HAD wanted a newt-POV novella, this is not what i would have wanted. he KNOWS that newt is almost universally the most loved character in this franchise. you can tell because he constantly uses him as a way to get fans in his good graces again. so why on earth would he take that character that so many people love and write a novella where its torture porn and a descent into madness before death? i am not interested in that At All. i’ve read fics (and even written a drabble) where newt is a Crank, and those were more respectful and easier to read than tcp. the parts where newt is having bouts of the Flare were literally exhausting to read; it was described in such vivid and torturous detail that it made me sick reading it. and it didnt help that newt is a character i care a lot about. i didn’t need to know what becoming a Crank felt like. the way it was described in the other books (and even the movies) told me everything i needed to know. the way thomas and everyone found newt at the crank palace in tdc and hes described as obviously not well, but not knowing what exactly happened to him...thats good enough on its own. the mystery of what exactly newt had to endure is part of what gives his journey more emotional depth. not everything needs to be written out and explained. not every gap needs to be filled in.

3. me saying “the characterization felt off” is going to make some people roll their eyes because ‘duh, sami, the characterization will be off because he’s going insane’ to which i say...exactly. we weren’t really reading a newt-POV novella, were we? even if he isn’t past the Gone in the beginning, hes clearly not the same person we knew him as. the whole novella felt like an uncanny valley situation; i knew i was supposed to be reading about newt, but it felt like i was reading about someone else who looked like him. and that is part of what made this such a disconnect and made me lose interest at parts. not only that, but the world building and lore is inconsistent. newt makes a comment about how it used to rain in the glade, and apparently (as ive been told) that is simply not true. keisha having somehow working cell phone that magically connects her to her family also doesnt make sense. how would they have each others’ numbers? what are the odds that they BOTH found working cell phones in an apocalypse? i get that its a novella but you cant just throw something that crazy in there as a plot convenience. actually work on your plot and world building in a cohesive way, please. and another thing that doesnt make sense...

4. ...is newt finding out that sonya is his sister. if there was anything i would have wanted from a newt-pov novella, it would have been this. him finding out that not only is sonya his sister, but he already knows her post-WCKD. something that would have made this novella actually captivating, contributing something worthwhile to the canon that i would actually want to read, is if newt found out while in the crank palace that sonya was his sister; the Flare would remove that part of the Slice in his brain, and he would realize it was her. then, knowing that he couldnt go past the Gone before seeing her, he would try to find a way to get back to her. he could learn this after thomas and everyone originally see him, so it could match up with the canon. and then, by the time 250 comes along, hes lost all hope of that actually happening, and lashes out to thomas in a fit of rage. the journey of him trying to find his ACTUAL sister would have meant more to me than the story of keisha and dante. trust me, i love a found family trope as much as the next girl. but this series is FULL of the found family trope. it pretty much is the backbone of the franchise. so to see a blood family dynamic would have been a refreshing change of pace that i actually would have been interested in reading. also, the way that newt DOES find out about sonya is...underwhelming. he just randomly says “you remind me of my sister, sonya” to keisha in the WCKD truck. first of all, sonya is not the name you would actually know her by. you would know her by her birth name (which is lizzy? elizabeth?). second, why does he act like he didnt already meet her in the series? when the WCKD doctor tells him sonya is his sister and is alive, hes so surprised. wouldn’t he have known that already? why is there not more emphasis on the fact he already met her? that would have been a really interesting dynamic to explore, and im sad they didnt

5. the pacing and dialogue of tcp is so dragged out. i remember specifically there was a section where newt goes to talk to keisha after she starts abandoning dante, and i swear to god there was a page and a half of text before anything ACTUALLY happened or anyone ACTUALLY said anything. dashner described a launcher at one point as “the energy dependent electric firing projectile device.” that’s SIX words to describe a stun gun. a fucking stun gun! we know what it is! why did you have to use six words??? it just felt like everything was dragged and stretched to the longest it could possibly be and it added to the exhaustion i felt while reading it

6. okay i cant end it without talking about newtmas. its very obvious by now that newtmas is a VERY large part of this fanbase. its clearly the most popular ship and what keeps a lot of people interested in this series. even the marketing team for the MOVIES used newtmas as a advertising tactic (i.e.; using thomas and newt standing face to face as a thumbnail for the trailer, emphasizing newtmas based questions in interviews, even making a fucking facebook memories video for them. yes that last one is real). not only does dashner use newt as a way to lure fans in; he also uses newtmas. the parts that were sprinkled into this were so obvious that it didnt feel authentic. i cant speak for the original trilogy; i dont know the culture around ships back then, and i dont know how much it influenced his writing at the time. but the scenes in those books felt more genuine than tcp. by genuine i mean; he wrote scenes without a relationship in mind, but the chemistry had noticeable subtext that, while unintentional, was largely agreed upon by the larger audience. the parts of newtmas he added into tcp felt artificial and forced, likely as a way for people to take snippets of and use as a free marketing tool for him. one example you might have already seen; “he had already gotten used to his post-thomas, post-WCKD life.” the fact that dashner SPECIFICALLY used the phrase “post-thomas” rather than “post-his friends” or something similar shows that he is using newtmas as a hook on purpose. not only that, but to make newt’s last thoughts as he died “tommy. tommy will understand...” is...wow. first of all, i never wanted to know what newt’s dying thoughts were, but thanks, i guess? and second, when we all initially thought newt died underneath thomas with a gun to his head, i was pretty much inferred that newts last thoughts would probably be about thomas; they would sort of have to be, given the circumstances. so adding that in gives me the same feeling that “i’m coming for you, newt” at the end of the fever code gave me. not as offensive, but written very much on purpose. and the ending is implying that there will somehow be a sequel where thomas gets newt’s journal from...someone. at this point, i can only think that this sequel will retroactively make newtmas canon somehow. now that newt has been confirmed as gay, it could happen. which brings me to my last point...

7. hearing dashner confirm newt is gay was already mind-boggling before. now that i’ve read the crank palace...im angry. im very angry. i think its safe to say that newt is the character that suffers the most in this series. you can argue with me but hes definitely high on the list, if not #1. so; you take this character. you give him a horribly sad arc in the original trilogy, then decide to expand upon it and tell us, your largely QUEER fanbase, exactly how painful and torturous his last days were, in detail. and then you tell us he’s gay. something that is never mentioned in the canon, only in an offhanded reply to a tweet of someone calling you out. on a base level, i can understand why people would be happy. representation (i guess), seeing themselves in the character, having their headcanons be confirmed. great. but what i see is you telling your largely queer fanbase “hey, you see the only confirmed gay character? im going to literally write torture porn about him before killing him off and offer it to you like im providing a service to your community.” how fucked up is that? “hey, kids, if youre gay, you WILL be violently tortured and become violent and a danger to the ones you love. then you will die and your love will never be reciprocated.” what a message! and if he DOES end up retroactively making newtmas “canon” in some weird sequel...i will start foaming at the mouth. THIS is an example of how not all queer representation is good or genuine.

i’ve definitely forgotten some points but this is long enough already. let me know if you agree or if theres anything else you want to add! im interested in what you guys think

(8. I JUST REMEMBERED!!! if WCKD needed to study newt so bad bc sonya is his sister and is immune while he isnt, why did they let him run around the crank palace in the first place??? you cant test his vitals or anything you’re literally just watching him. what is the point????)

#my fingers hurt from typing lol #the crank palace #the maze runner #newt #newtmas #anyway...

66 notes · View notes

kevinwastaken · 4 years ago

Text

okay so idk if anyones done this yet, but this has been in my mind ever since i got into omori lmao

so uhHhHhhh heres my idea for an identity v omori crossover! just because i think it would be neat

this is going to be a super long post (probably), so if you want to read it, just hit read more or whatever

i also want to say that some character choices are gonna be taken from my friend, @/kami.rikki on instagram. but she didnt think as hard on these as i did so like idk

there Will be spoilers for omori, so just be warned of that lmao

so as i said before, this has been on my mind for a HOT minute. and i think it would be a cool collab

for starters, this crossover will be split up (as is every other crossover) in two parts, with one hunter two survivors. i know essence usually have one hunter three survivors, but theres not enough characters for that, and six can be split up evenly sooo

i was thinking that the skins could be like the ones from the persona 5 crossover. like, they can be “awakened” in a sense. the base costumes will be the dream world versions of everyone, while the awakened costumes will be the real world versions. i wasnt here for the persona 5 crossover, so idk how many of those spirit things you had to collect, but i Do know that omoris spirit things could be. uh

well actually i dont know. initially i was thinking lightbulbs, like the one in white space, but the lightbulb isnt too important in the game i dont think? and im not sure about clams either. i know theyre dream world currency, but??

oh actually, maybe you can collect Something to awaken the costumes. because something is a representation of the truth in sunnys mind, and by awakening the costumes, you get to see the characters as their real selves. yeah lets go with that, you collect something from the essence

i swear ive been thinking this out shut up

the hunter costumes wont be awakened though, and i have a reason for this

anyway

part one

the characters that will be present in part one are sunny, basil, and aubrey. i chose them first because. ofc, sunnys the protag, basils his best friend and helped cover up maris death hes important to the story but anyway, and aubrey is <<33 yuh

so heres whos going to be who:

sunny/omori as wu chang

so let me preface this by saying that im not a hunter main. never have been, never will be. and ive never played wu chang. but i swear thisll make sense, im doing research

wu chang is actually composed of two characters, with two different stats: xie, the white guard, and fan, the black guard. i cant tell the difference while im playing, considering the fact that my ass is either running away or decoding. but theres a difference i looked it up

sunny would be the white guard. xie is a fast chaser, but has slow attack speed. ie, slow hits, slow pallet breaking, that stuff. this reflects how sunny is in the real world. he can run, yes, but hes still physically weak due to being locked in his house for four years and spending all his time sleeping. he would be better for chasing than attacking

omori would be the black guard. fan is the opposite of xie, having slow chasing speed but faster attack speed. this reflects in omori. omori is Very apathetic, and really, i dont think he would care to chase anybody unless it was for a quest. though, i guess killing survivors Is a quest for hunters, but. anyway

in battle, omori is a good fighter. his attacks are strong, (although not as strong as say. aubrey or kel. but who am i to say, the playthrough i watched had omori constantly sad) out of him and sunny, omori would be the attacker. so theres my choice for them

the umbrella can probably be switched for a knife. maybe an elongated knife. im not entirely sure, but i know the umbrella wont stay as an umbrella

basil as kurt frank

so i know what youre thinking. why is basil “the explorer??” hear me out this is actually a really good idea

the true best choice would be emma, since shes the gardener, but idv doesnt like giving characters skins of the opposite gender if you know what i mean. anyway

basil isnt a fighter. hes an assist, yes, but that was only for a crime four years ago. not my point, he wouldnt want to be in the action

i think he’d be a really good decoder. especially a good kurt

i originally wanted him to be prisoner, out of no bias whatsoever (/j) but kurt is a good fit for him

basil hides. he hides from things. he hides from the truth just like sunny, and he hides from others. albeit he still goes outside

i will not lie, i have a very personal grudge against kurt players. i dont want them to have anything because every kurt main ive come across was toxic to me specifically. but anyway

so one of kurts abilities is that he can go smaller to run around undetected and/or hide. i find this perfect for basil, because. yknow. hiding

his other ability is to find password pages and use them to decode ciphers faster. i think this would be funny because basils existence in headspace leads sunny to remembering the truth about maris death. i mean, if he werent in headspace, omori and the gang would continue going on adventures like nothing is wrong, so basil sort of speeds up the acknowledging process

this sounds dumb actually. but it makes sense in my head

anyway, the book would be turned into basils photo album, and he wouldnt have a backpack like kurt does. theres my answer

and finally,

aubrey as margaretha zelle

aubrey was actually really hard to pick out. none of the female survivors really fit her, aside from maybe coord, but i dont know what her gun would turn into. i will admit that her section wont be as detailed as basil or sunnys. but anyway my choice is with margie

aubrey imo would be a good kiter. she has strong stats all around, so i feel as if she’d be a great fit for margie. not to mention her speed boost when falling from large heights, which would make her a faster runner and harder to chase if used right. aubrey would be more physically fit since shes a fighter and seems to do a lot of stuff with the hooligans, which also helps prove that she should be a kiter. ANYWAY

so margie has these music boxes that can mess with the hunter, right? some of aubreys attacks can mess with enemies iirc. soooo theyre kind of similar in a way, arent they?

im not exactly sure what the music box can be turned into. maybe a small piano? aubrey cares about mari a lot, and the reason shes so pissed at everyone and rebellious is because she felt like everyone had forgotten about mari and moved on with their lives. so the music box could be a tribute to mari

i dont know how many changes they made with ann tamakis costume in the persona crossover, other than cosmetics for the skin only, so im not sure if the music box was changed at all. i can dream though

in the case that its changed, the blue box could be the song from the playground in headspace (yknow the one) while the red box could be the final duet song. but just with the piano, not the violin

essence

because yes, i thought about the essence too

of course, aside from the skins, there will be other stuff in the essence too. so itll be as follows:

for portraits, theyre going to be the neutral battle portraits from headspace. aside from basil and mari, who do not have battle portraits. theirs will just be of their neutral expressions with the neutral emotion backround behind them. i would add pictures, but the character pictures add up to six, so i’d run out of room before reaching part two

for graffiti, im not really sure. maybe everyones overworld sprites in headspace? along with maybe one of Something

for accessories, i actually have an idea of what thesell be. theyre going to be character exclusive accessories, just like how tpn did theirs

for aubrey, she’ll have mr plantegg. i was thinking of maybe having her bat as an accessory, but

OH ACTUALLY her bat could be a shop accessory that changes the music boxes!! probably an a tier tbh

anyway, the essence accessory for her is mr plantegg, and its there strictly for cosmetic purposes. for basil, he’d get either a pair of garden shears, or a basil plant, since yknow. his names basil. this is also for cosmetic purposes

they all are. i should say that now, the accessories are all cosmetic except aubreys a tier shop bat

finally, for sunny, im not entirely sure what to give him. i could give him a knife, sure, but then he’d have two knives because of the umbrella. maybe a steak? or a pair of red hands? im torn on this

and that concludes part one

part two

**PLEASE BE AWARE THAT MARIS IMAGE HAS THE PHOTO FROM THE TRUTH ALBUM WHERE SHES HANGING FROM THE TREE. IF YOU DONT WANT TO SEE IT, SKIP PAST IT. SHES THE FIRST CHARACTER IM PUTTING ON HERE

part two consists of mari, hero, and kel. do not separate them </3

here are my character choices:

mari as yidhra

so i know yidhra may seem like a weird choice. i originally thought of maybe mary, but this makes sense to me

yidhra herself will be mari. im not sure which version, but even though i have real world mari in the photo, maybe headspace mari would be better. nobody can see her anyway lmao

yidhras servants will be, again, mari, but she looks as she did when basil and sunny hung her on the tree. her hairs covering her face, with her right eye being visible. kind of like the girl from the ring, but anyway yeah

yidhra is the dream witch. she haunts your dreams and she haunts mine when i go against her. maris death haunts everyone, especially sunny and basil (whom know the truth of what happened,) so this just seems like a perfect fit

her death is “leeched” onto everyones minds (pun entirely intended), so attaching herself to survivors with only her death appearance visible is mmmm

instead of an axe, maybe her weapon can be the jump rope she was hung from? and it can be used as a whip? that makes the most sense to me idk

im not good at explaining things, but if you were to see dream witch in a match, youd know how good this would work

also brings a new meaning to “my thoughts will follow you into your dreams” HELLO

hero as norton campbell

so hero was kind of hard for me to pick too. i wanted him to be a support character, but looking around, there are. barely any that would work. my closest choice was victor, but?? the letters???? they dont correlate

hero doesnt give me kiter vibes, but nortons good at rescues too, as long as youre in an area with obstacles. and usually, when someone dies in battle, hero can make life jam to revive the fallen party member

nortons magnets are used to either bring the hunter closer to him, or push the hunter away. both can be used to stun with obstacles. while hero doesnt have any stun attacks that i can remember, he does have charming abilities that can be used to take damage for the other party members. so similar stuff? idk

i guess his magnets can be turned into chocolate chip cookies, since thats what he uses to heal everyone. if not cookies, then i dont know

oh actually one of nortons abilities is called “attract.” thats so funny if you put hero as him lmao

heros section is kind of short, my bad

kel as william ellis

come on. who else were you expecting me to use? its the basketball man as the football man

while kel is a fighter in battle, he can also be used as a backup healer. aubrey is the main fighter of the group, and hero is the main healer. so hes kind of a catch-all in a sense

kels an athlete. he plays basketball. williams an athlete. he plays football. need i say more

im not gonna lie, this is kind of a don tpn situation where it just Makes Sense that kel would be william

the football will probably be replaced with either a rubber ball or a basketball, depending on which skin youre using. the former is for headspace kel, the latter for real world kel

the buffs and debuffs for william makes sense on kel too. kel would probably have trouble with something as (probably) complex as the cipher machines, and the struggle and vaulting buffs show off his athleticisim

same with the football, using rush to rescue is such a kel thing to do

essence

for part two, there will be about the same things as part one

the portraits will be the neutral battle portraits, this time with the real world counterparts of everyone. basil and maris will be their neutral expressions on the neutral battle background. though, since mari doesnt have Real real world portraits, i guess they could use the one from the one i used on the mari yidhra picture

for graffiti, it can be the real world overworld sprites

in terms of accessories, theyre still cosmetic and character exclusive. maris can be the white egret orchid, since thats the flower that represents her. heros can be a spatula, as thats his weapon of choice in headspace. for kel, im not sure. hes using the ball as a weapon so???

maybe he can get a cactus, because thats his assigned plant

in terms of shop items, i think i know the perfect thing

mewo as a pet

mewo my beloved. nobody could ever forget you

mewo would be a hunter pet. she would be cool for survs too i guess, but considering both her owners are hunters.....

mewo would probably follow the hunter around, not really doing much. i think it would be Extremely funny though if every time a survivor was chaired, she just chilled next to them in the pose shes always in in white space

thats pretty much it. if you got this far, thank you!! i spent like two hours writing this whole thing out LMAO damn

#this is soooo long im so sorry #but im having a moment LMAO #identity v #idv #omori #omori game

10 notes · View notes

lesbow · 4 years ago

Text

i wanna talk about claire & douxie

so im on episode 4 and just got to the scene where claire uses her shadow magic to create a portal for them to go see the lady of the lake. this scene is claire’s moment of development and i loved it for her. i dont wanna take away from that but i also loved it because of claire and douxie’s bond during it. im sure there will be several other posts about how awesome this was claire bc it really was, so i guess just take this as another perspective on the scene.

before i start i would just like to say: this post is about their strictly platonic relationship. i dont ship them and honestly dont know how i feel about them as a ship in general since douxie is significantly older than them (”college aged”) and i dont really think its right. especially bc on the wiki it says claire is only 15-16 (im guessing 16 since its been A Minute since s1 of trollhunters lol) and in the show douxie canonly says he’s 19-esque. so pls dont go reading this in ya know that kind of lense bc thats not my intention.

alright so now that i’ve got that out the way

from the start douxie has obviously gravitated towards claire because of their shared understanding of magic. when they first drop in camelot, he confides in her the most and whenever she gets upset he takes it strongly, seemingly as a personal hit. like when he tried to talk about the brightside of jim being imprisoned and then claire bursts into tears (bc obviously lol it really wasnt a great situation to be in). but i really wanna talk about the scene in episode 4 when claire starts to become more comfortable with her magic.

douxie comes up with the plan in the first place because he has full confidence in claire’s abilities. he starts off by talking about how amazing her powers are and that she shouldn’t be afraid of herself. he expresses not one ounce of doubt abt how strong claire is and fully supports her, even when claire refuses to herself.

seeing morgana die and knowing they share the same magic was an understandably awful thing for claire to witness, and she is obviously traumatized from it as she still has nightmares and visions about morgana’s death. but then douxie, who has complete & utter faith in her, encourages her to use her magic. so she tries just because he asked. claire tho who still feels uncertain asks for his help in return, and douxie is completely shocked by it. i have expressed several times how much i hate merlin and i am NOT afraid to do it again bc i 100% blame his constant degradation for douxie’s low self esteem.

which also leads me to believe that douxie connects with claire, not only bc of their use of magic but because he also sees himself in her. they both have little confidence in their powers that stem somewhat from their predecessors. douxie vs merlin’s nonstop insults and claire vs morgana’s seemingly inevitable evilness. he sees himself in her because he was her (and still is) and subconsciously, as most of us do, wants to become the support he wish he had.

but helping those younger than you/who were in your shoes also has a way of making you reflect on yourself too. which is why, even tho he was fully prepared to give claire emotional encouragement, he was blindsided when she asked for his teaching. he wants to help raise claire’s confidence, but has yet to work on his own.

when the rock.... wall...... thingies.... insult douxie and agree on him being subpar, claire (and archie but this aint about him) immediately fires back at them to cool it. and while douxie didn’t disagree with the rockwallthingies, he clearly appreciated claire standing up for him and smiles about it. her sticking up for him helps give him the boost he needed to teach her what he knows.

while attempting the portal, douxie gives her constant words of encouragement. and when claire, who is gradually becoming more and more unstable, confesses that she is afraid, his tone changes and becomes softer. he is still confident in her abilities, but also knows how overwhelming they can be and doesn’t hesitate to switch from determined support to warm reassurance.

things turn for the worse tho when claire ends up giving into her fear and the shadow portal swallows her.

(i tried my best to gif what happens bc i dont think a screenshot would do it justice)

once claire succumbs to her fear and her magic swallows her whole, douxie hyperventilates. i’d even say he was panicking bc this was the one thing neither of them wanted to happen. its both of their fears happening all at once. douxie’s initial fear of being a bad teacher/influence/magic user in general and claire’s fear that her magic will overpower her, both being proven right in the worst way possible.

what douxie doesnt realize yet is that his teaching didnt fail. while claire is in the shadow realm, she sees morgana’s corpse again and freezes up. but then she pauses as soon as she remembers douxie’s words “dont let fear control you. stay true to yourself.” and with the help of his previous support, she gains the courage to finally face what she’s been afraid of and brings herself back to them. while douxie is terrified that he’s failed claire, it’s actually his words that help her succeed.

once claire comes back, douxie is immediately up and grabs her face to check for injuries. he crowds her so much, archie even has to tell him to relax and give her space. douxie is skilled in magic, but he has no idea what shadow magic and all it entails is actually like, so it isnt unreasonable for his imagination to have run wild with all the dangers claire could’ve been exposed to.

claire rambles about what happened (rambling claire is the most adorable claire) but douxie misreads her curiosity as anxiety and goes to comfort her again. “we understand if you dont want to go back in” its just constant constant support from this guy! (which is funnily enough the exact opposite of what he received from merlin.) he sees her eyes are glued to morgana’s spell book and gently pushes it away. in his mind, what happened in the shadow realm was most likely a bad experience and instead of trying to force her to do it again, he tells her to not feel rushed to go back in. he gets that what he thought was encouragement might’ve actually been pressure and doesn’t hesitate to make sure claire knows that they, and he, will support whatever she wants to do.

claire quickly tells him that’s not the case and that she’s fine. and whether or not she’s aware of his insecurities yet, she lets him know his influence was actually a great help.

the positive words surprise douxie and make him smile. once again, claire’s kindness has uplifted his spirits.

between these two its just a back and forth of nonstop support. douxie helps claire not be afraid of her own magic, and claire helps douxie not fall into self deprecation. as the show goes on i think they will grow to have a very strong sibling-like bond and i cant wait to see it.

#toa wizards #tales of arcadia #douxie #toa wizards spoilers //#long text post //#babbles #also while douxie was flirting with claire and the other HS girls in tr*llhunters #that was awhile ago and i wouldnt be surprised if the show writers hadnt given douxie a set age yet #but now that he has one lets just drop that dynamic lol #s: wizards

64 notes · View notes

avianurges · 4 years ago

Note

For the ask meme- yes. The whole fucking alphabet. Any fandom of your choice for any of them -kipp

LMAO THE WHOLE THING? THIS SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED-

A - Your current OTP(s)/OT3(s)/OTX(s)

Honestly besides the Constant love for Mell and Kai, Ash and Eiji from banana fish, and Reki and Langa and Joe and Cherry from sk8 right now. Also i like Lawlight from specifically the 2015 death note tv drama. OH. AND ALSO. SEKI AND SHIMIZU FROM OYASUMI PUNPUN I LOVE THEM

(Side note ngl Detective Roberts and His Ex-Wife are v nice together i like them)

B - A pairing you initially didn’t consider but someone changed your mind

Ellspen from Self Aware. LIKE LISTEN. I KNOW I WRITE THE THING. BUT I NEVER CONSIDERED THAT UNTIL READERS STARTED SHIPPING IT

C - A ship you have never liked and probably never will (be nice)

Uhhh idk I never thought about it. Ig i’m not really a fan of Aizawa/All Might? that’s the first ship to come to mind. oh and also Hawks/Endeavor. not my cup o tea, never will be

D - A pairing you wish you liked but just can’t (again: be nice)

Any ship with Tanaka from haikyuu that Isnt him and kiyoko. like art of him and enoshita or him and noya are Cute, but i just dont ship it

E - Have you added anything cracky/hilarious to your fandom, if so, what

Does writing “Regenerate, Fate” count

I also have Goose Yagami meme and the yelling cat meme but it’s death note

F - What’s the longest you’ve ever been in a fandom

BNHA fandom has been since... november 2017ish

G - Do you remember your first OTP, if so who was in it

.........................................................................Klance.

H - What is your favorite source text for fandom stuff (e.g., tv shows, movies, books, anime, Western animation, etc.)

(ngl i dunno what this Means so sorry if my answer doesn’t make sense but-) I really like anime and animation, but also i really like comics and manga, more so now that im Making a comic

I - Has tumblr caused you to stop liking any fandoms, if so, which and why

I don’t think tumblr’s ever stopped making me like a fandom, but just like. stop going in tumblr’s tag for it. for example 15ish year old me was NOT ready to see the things in the undertale tag that i did. oh god the horrors.

J - Name a fandom you didn’t care/think about until you saw it all over tumblr

i dont think tumblrs ever led me to starting a show/getting into a fandom, but pinterest has. most of my fandoms have been through seeing random things on pinterest ngl

K -Say something nice about someone in any of your fandoms

Vigilantedekus is The Best and I Love Them

L - Say something genuinely nice about a character who isn’t one of your faves (chars you’re neutral on are fair game, as are chars you dislike)

Matsuda from death note might’ve been played as the “Funny because he keeps fuckin up” kinda chara, but i do like that he was the one to shoot light and that he had that kind of outburst about light’s dad. BUT ALSO MATSUDA’S THEORY IN THE END OF THE MANGA? RIGHTS.

M - Say something genuinely nice about a ship that you don’t ship (or its shippers, or anything related to you)

i dont have anything specific in mind, but all fandoms have DOPE artists

N - Name three things you wish you saw more or in your main fandom (or a fandom of choice)

head empty no thoughts

O - Choose a song at random, which ship or character does it remind you of

Right now “The mind electric” reminds me of Jamie from SA, “Butterfly’s Repose” reminds me of Mell And Kai

P - Invent a random AU for any fandom (we always need more ideas)

uh uh uh uh Self Aware but without Aviancorp. That’s the only difference. The au is just what kind of ripple effect it would have on everyone and their lives

Q - A ship you’ve abandoned and why

nothing’s coming to mind

R - A pairing you ship that you don’t think anyone else ships

Sobs. Seki and Shimizu from Goodnight Punpun. I only say them for this because theres So Little People who know them

S - Show us an example of your personal headcanon (prompts optional but encouraged)

Athen (my oc, Choosing(02)) wants to see hatsune miku because he uses a voicebank to speak and “! she sounds like me!”

T - Do you have any hard and fast headcanons that you will die defending, about anything at all (gender identity, sexual or romantic orientation, extended family, sexual preferences like top/bottom/switch, relationship with poetry, seriously anything)

I’m going to do these with my OCs instead. because while im the author, they’re headcanons because most of them i cant Really make canon:

Athen has a mothman pajama set. He and adam have matching “Humanfucker”/”Robofucker” shirts

athen Has seriously wondered if adam would leave him for mothman

athen gets a pet roomba named Hal

Jamie would be a good parent

Sam (one of the dead kids from Subject 402/SA-) would’ve been a soccer player if she lived

Letho (the Other dead kid) would’ve been an art student

if jordan(Kai) had a Normal Life and WASNT a human experiment, he wouldnt be very accomplished in school despite being a genius, he’d be kinda a delinquent and getting in trouble a lot

If mell had a younger sibling, people would probably think HE’S the youngest one. they would not believe he were older if they were close in age

U - 5 favorite characters from 5 different fandoms

Mob from Mob psycho

L and Light are tied

Aizawa and Shinsou and Deku are top faves ig

ash and eiji from banana fish. love them. AND SHORTER> LOVE HIM

i like punpun as a character but if i had the chance i would prolly throw hands

V - 3 OTPs from 3 different fandoms

Mell and Kai - Self Aware

Shindeku OR tododeku - bnha

(Letho and (Redacted)) - Self Aware (but like. the au if letho Lived)

Ash and Eiji - Banana Fish

W - 5 favorite ships and 5 kinks you like best for said ships

I think we all know my fave ships from this post so far. no need to do this question lmao

X - top 5-10 characters who are yoUR PRECIOUS BABIES AND YOU WILL DIE DEFENDING THEM

MOB. WOULD KILL FOR HIM BUT I KNOW HE WOULD BE :( AT ME FOR IT

ngl there aren’t many Precious Babies. like I’d say Hinata is a precious baby but haikyuu ends when he’s like fuckin 30 so what counts as a precious baby hmmm

Y - What are your secondhand fandoms (fandoms you aren’t in personally but are tangentially familiar with because your friends/people on your dash are in them)

my dash gets so much TMA

Z - Just ramble about something fan-related, go go go (prompts optional but encouraged)

this post is long enough,,,

#long post #ask #ask meme

14 notes · View notes

raionmimi · 4 years ago

Note

Doesn't everything you said in the Emer post also apply to Ailill? There was a pretty high amount of subtext that Medb married Ailill because she knew he'd be a doormat, she got all of there kids killed/tried to railroad their lives for the sake of her own bullshit, and the one time Ailill actually had something he could claim to be better at, Medb started a war that killed innumerable amounts of people killed and ended with Ailill losing that one thing.

I’m gonna cry because I accidentally deleted everything I had typed, but no it would not really apply to him. In the myths, Emer and Cú got married like... vaguely normally. It was a matter of Cu just being an asshole and Emer just kinda had to deal with that without knowing that he was gonna be a bastard. Medb put everything out on the table of what she was looking for before getting married or involved with people. She’s deffo a character that needed a sense of control and is morally gray being the antagonist, but she was very outright with what she was doing. I would argue that Ailill, who originally met Medb by challenging her husband at the time to a duel for her hand and won, knew exactly what Medb was looking for in their relationship. And for awhile, it was fine. Medb technically acted as the king calling the shots, and he was taking the more secondary role as the queen, but they were still equals. He ended up not liking that and decided “You know what? I change my mind, actually I have power over you” which was not their agreement. Medb, in turn, goes to look for something to be of EQUAL value to his.

None of her kids died except for Finnabair, who only died because Cú made her feel guilty that she jumped off a cliff/died on the spot. The Maines aren’t talked about a lot but they lived

Also Medb is always blamed as the sole person for starting the war, and yeah she had a huge role in it. However she’s not the sole person for this domino effect. We have 4 other people who played a role, and all of them are related to Cú in some way. We have 1:Conchobar for the very obvious reason of abusing and assaulting Medb, causing a good amount of the bad blood between Connacht and Ulster from the start

2: Conchobar’s cousin who initially agreed to give Medb the ox, which she only intended on renting for a year. Presumably to breed it, I would think, and then she was going to give it back. That peaceful plan went to shit when the messenger got drunk and said “Medb would take it by force if you had said no.” But like ?????? The cousin had already agreed, but now decided that he wasnt going to. So now, Medb is mad and decides yeah, Im gonna fo take the ox by force for realsies now. Which is surprisingly not actually the weirdest reason for a war to start, even in irl history.

3: Is Cu himself. Medb literally could have ran into Ulster and left with the ox fairly easily with minimal damage done. Why? Becuase literally every man in Ulster was suffering from labor pains thanks to a curse, making it a would-be easy steal. Except Cu, becuase he was 17 or so, so not considered a man. He sees this as a chance for fame as a hero. He immediately kills several men (and some of his own when he went warp spasm becuase he could not differentiate the difference), elongating this whole fiasco to several years, dragging everyone into it. There really wasn’t necessarily a “war” until he showed up. From the perspective, it’s written as Cu being a hero and of course, it would be benevolent towards him but like..... this entire thing could have ended in the span of like a day tops....... not like years.... Course, if she was left to her own devices, she probably would have shimmied her way to get the ox, kill Conchobar, and then go home lmaoooo

4: Fergus encouraged Medb to invade Ulster becuase “Fuck Conchobar lol” and I commend him for it becuase fuck that guy

Anyways, it ended with her ox and his ox fighting to the death, which made all those years pointless. Also weirdly enough, the ox was actually a man that had been turned into an ox, so fucking RIP lmao. But yeah, something something moral of the story is a lesson against pride and vanity, something literally every major character had and got them killed, but Medb is not the only person that had a fault in this.

#Anonymous #long post #rip mobile users

31 notes · View notes

lunatic-fandom-space · 4 years ago

Text

Comparing RWBY and YGO DM: The Handling and Evolution of Themes

Hey! Its been a hot minute since I last posted anything RWBY-related but Im laying in my bed right now and Im sick and bored so I guess we're doing this. Today I will do my best to analyze what I percieve to be the main themes and messages of both of these shows, or more specifically, how theyre handled narratively. Im mostly focusing on that part because, while these series do have similar themes and messaging, they are still a few things in which they are wildly different. And with that, lets start with this essay-post-thing!

1. Theres something we need to adress first

Okay so, before we can really talk about this, theres something I feel the need to clarify here: Neither of these stories was "planned from the beginning".

Now, I dont think a story being planned from the beginning or not nesscessarily makes the story any better or worse by default, however, it is still important to acknowledge because the way the story is planned is going to affect every facet of it. Things are not going to be foreshadowed properly, things are gonna be set up only for nothing to come of it, the story might drastically change directions, characters might act differently, etc, etc.

And, this is bit off-topic but, it's much better to just admit that the story was not planned than trying to pretend that it was. Like, there are a lot of reasons why I tend to be so forgiving towards YGO even though its not very good, but one of them is definitely the fact that, as far as Im aware atleast, the guy who wrote it isnt pretending to have had this big master plan all along and neither is the fandom. With RWBY on the other hand... yeaaaah, its kinda the opposite. From what Ive seen of RWBYs fandom, there seems to be this pretty popular narrative that everything was planned even though it clearly wasnt. Thats pretty bad and honestly lowers my opinion of the writers so much more than if they would just admit to not having a proper plan.

Like, I initially consumed YGO like this: Yu-Gi-Oh Duel Monsters, Yu-Gi-Oh (aka Season 0), like, a quarter of the Yu-Gi-Oh manga (I still havent finished it)

In all three of these we have the character of Yami Yuugi, or just Yami. Broadly speaking, he is an ancient egyptian gamer spirit who lives in a magical puzzle that has not been solved for 3000 years until this highschooler named Yuugi Mutou comes along and solves it, thus setting him free and allowing him to possess Yuugi and have access to the vague magical powers of the puzzle.

In Duel Monsters he's perfectly fine most of time, morally speaking. There is an instance of him almost murdering a guy and its a bit unclear what exactly happens to those he mindcrushes but overall he's very much a pretty good guy. In Season 0 most of what he does is set up these games for bad people, where they will go insane no matter what they do. From how I understand this whole Shadow Game, Penalty Game stuff, if you lose a Shadow Game, you get violent and intense hallucinations and you will always cuz yknow, gamer spirit. But if you try to cheat, which most of the bad people do in this show, you get violent and intense hallucinations as a punishment.

Since the two anime are generally considered two different continuities, its perfectly fine that Yamis characterization is wildly different in both of them. But in the manga both of these characterizations appear, basically one after the other with no real arc or consequences, for that matter. Why is that? Simply put, someone thought it was a good idea to try to turn an episodic, very slice of life-y light-horror manga into a more traditional, more plot-driven battle shounen. From what Ive heard, it was apparently largely because of network interference or something, but the point is, it changed directions incredibly drastically with little planning and everyone knows this and I can understand that for the most part.

In RWBY we have the character of Blake Belladonna, who, in the first 3 volumes/seasons atleast, was this aloof, more toned down loner-type character with a pretty strong sense of justice. She's an in-universe marginilized racial minority and she clearly cares about racial injustice. The way its initially framed makes it seem like she had a very hard life and no stable support system, which is what eventually pushed her to join a Civil Rights group/Terrorist organization (good god, the Faunus subplot is so awful, I could write a whole essay about it but Im already de-railing rn so I'll just save that for later).

Then, in volumes 4-5 it turns out her father is actually like, the mayor or chief of this island-place called Menagerie and she grew up in this big mansion with multiple guards/servants. Oh and also, apparently "space is a commodity" on there, so theres that. She still retains large parts of her personality but she's kinda like, worse somehow I think. I cant really describe it in a meaningful way but I hope you get what Im saying anyway. Then in Volume 6 she confronted her emotional abuser Adam (sorry for not mentioning him sooner but yeah, he was like, her abusive boyfriend, which is something that a lot of people disagree with but I wont really say anything about it either way because I dont really feel any specific way) with her friend, Yang, and ended up killing him.

After all that, she pretty much lost the rest of her personality, as well as her arc about all the Faunus stuff. She just kinda became the meek, generically nice, recovering abuse victim. Why? Well, the actual reason is that they didnt plan out shit and are just kinda flying by the seat of their oversized clown-pants and if they and the fandom just admitted it, I would have less of an issue. I still wouldnt be as forgiving towards RWBY as I am towards YGO because the crux of the issue, for me, is just that I dont particulary like RWBY but also like. Do you really expect me to take MKEK seriously as writers after admitting to not have a timeline because iT wOuLd CaUsE pLoThOlEs?

However, since they want us to believe that everything was planned out from the beginning, the explaination would be.... Idk, they deliberately butchered one of their main characters?? Because.. they hate her?? Maybe????

So yeah, that was quite a detour however, I would like you to keep this mind going forward.

2. Themes of the Early Series'

First, what do mean by 'Early Series' for both of these shows respectively? Well, for YGO that would have to be Season 0 or if youre reading the manga, everything pre-Duelist Kingdom. Basically, the part of the series thats a episodic, very slice of life-y light-horror series.

For RWBY that would be the first three Volumes, also known as the Poser-Era. Back then it was just kinda an action series that took place at Anime Warrior Academy (also known as Beacon) with some pretty bare minimum worldbuilding, character-driven plots and developments but now its more of an epic high-fantasy story with more of an emphasis on plot as opposed to just action.

The themes and messages in Early YGO are kinda vague, very confusing to me and if you were to follow any of it literally that would be pretty bad. For now Im just gonna say the main themes are Friendship and Identity and mostly focus on the Identity aspect.

Now, it took me a little while to figure out RWBYs deal but I think the main themes for Volumes 1-3 are also Friendship and Heroism. Once again, I'll mostly focus on Heroism and touch on Friendship more briefly later.

I dont have much more to add to YGOs themes right now, so I'll briefly go over Heroism in RWBY.

In RWBYs setting there are these man-eating monsters called Grimm that have basically infected the planet. In order to deal with that, they have people called huntsmen and huntresses that kill them and protect people. Theyre trained at special academies like Beacon and go on missions there and stuff like that. Our four main characters, Ruby, Weiss, Blake and Yang, are training to become huntresses and one day they go on this mission to clean up a grimm infested city block with one of their teachers. Obviously, that takes a long time so they have to camp out in one of the empty houses. Weiss, Blake and Yang cant sleep because theyve been thinking about this question that their teacher asked them when they were fighting grimm: "Why do you want to become a huntress?"

They have a heart to heart and we find out about their motivations; Weiss wants to bring honour back to her family, Blake want to distance herself from the White Fang (that terrorist organization I mentioned earlier) and as an extension from Adam, Yang wants to have a life of adventure. They also talk about why Ruby wants to be a huntress and it turns out that she judt wants to help people. Unlike the others, she has no motivation besides that. We're meant to listen to that and look at her as a sort-of personification of Heroism: kind, but not naive, strong and most of all, selfless. The others on her team are not portayed as bad for not being like Ruby by any means but we are clearly meant to admire her the most out of all of them.

Okay, now comes the part Ive been looking forward to the most:

3. How did these themes evolve in the Modern Series'?

Alright, before we can really delve into the way they evolved in YGO I'll have to give you a brief summary of the character progression. At the start of DM, during the Duelist Kingdom arc, Yami Yuugi is just that; A darker Yuugi. Hes more confident, bolder, his voice is deeper, hes somehow taller, more ruthless, all that good stuff. Notably, he doesnt actually seem more skilled than Yuugi even at the start of this story, but he's still dependent on Yami. Yami on the other hand, has no identity of his own or even hints at one at this point. He's just The Other Yuugi.

Then during the Battle City arc, they find out that Yami was actually a pharao prior to being sealed in the puzzle, he just didnt know because of amnesia, I guess. So now they need to find out his real name and then send him to the afterlife because hes meant to be dead, but not before saving the world from being swallowed by darkness, which is also a thing they have to do now.

Then we finally get to the Memory World arc, where Yami, Yuugi and the rest of the gang astralproject to ancient egypt via puzzle magic. Yami is trying to figure out what the hell is going on and who all these familiar people are, while Yuugi & Co are trying their best to help him. Then some weird shit happens and it turns out that all of that is not just Yamis sealed away memories, but also a giant D&D Shadow Game that will destroy the world if Yami loses. So now theres Pharao!Yami who is still clueless on the metaphorical and literal playing field and Player!Yami, who is kinda controlling himself now? I guess?? Yamis opponent, The Spirit of The Ring, has something similar to that going on where hes both controlling and properly participating in the game. So Player!Yami is now fighting against Player!TSoTR, Pharao!Yami is now fighting against Thief King Bakura (who is like, the human, ancient egyptian version of the Ring Spirit) and Yuugi is now fighting against Yami Bakura (who is like, the human, modern japanese version of the Ring Spirit). Yuugi gets Yamis real name, he and the gang go over to Pharao!Yami and tell him his name, meanwhile Player!Yami is also somehow helping as well and they defeat the Ring Spirit, thus saving the world. Then they travel to modern Egypt, the Ceremonial Duel happens and Yuugi wins, sending Yami to the Afterlife where he can finally rest and that was the series!

I originally wanted to recount the stuff that was going on with the Ring Spirit and his host as well because they parallel eachother, but this summary is already far too long and I think youll get the point without me needing to explain any more.

My point here is, that the story went from being vaguely about Identity, maybe? to being very clearly about Self-Discovery and Learning to Be Independent. I think this is a very good way to evolve the messaging of your story. How does RWBY track on that?

Well, uh... its not great. I will acknowledge that they have tried to introduce new themes and ideas since, even though I wont really be talking about them in this post. But yeah, the whole Heroism thing really regressed.

Like, I didnt explicitly say it when I was explaining grimm earlier, but theyre not going away. The grimm have always been there and people who sign up to become huntsmen and huntresses are effectively signing up for a job that will never truly be done, no matter what they do. Characters like Ruby and even more minor ones like Phyrrah have shown us that that doesnt matter when youre a hero. No life isnt worth saving, no grimm isnt worth killing, no criminal isnt worth arresting. Then, in volume 6 they find out about Salem. Salem is the Big Bad of the show, shes immortal, controls the grimm and is supposed to be very powerful.

What do our heroes do? They give up. Sike! They were just mindcontrolled by monsters or some shit, of course they didnt give up their mission (which is to bring an Important Macguffin to a city called Atlas, sorry I didnt mention it)!

But then they arrive in Atlas (which is llike, a city thats floating over another city called Mantle) and yknow, they do some plot stuff thats not really important right now until the city gets invaded by Salem and this big grimm army she has.

What do our heroes do? Well, Ruby, Weiss, Blake and some side characters are chilling, drinking tea in a mansion and Yang and the B Team were actually trying to do something, but even those efforts seem incredibly minimal.

Oh wait, I also forgot to mention that Ironwood (a fairly minor, vaguely antagonistic character up until now) wanted to lift Atlas even higher to save Atleasian civilians from danger while leaving Mantle vulnerable to Salems invasion.

What would be the most heroic thing to do?

A) Let Ironwood lift Atlas, get as much support as they can down to Mantle and save as many Mantle civilians as they can from the invasion

B) Prevent Ironwood from lifting Atlas but then split up in order to protect both Atlas and Mantle civilians

C) Prevent Ironwood from lifting Atlas and then dont do anything else

Congrats! If you choose C, you think exactly like the writers!

And I just

This is so mindboggling to me, I feel like I shouldnt even have explain how this is bad. And like, it wouldve been so easy to actually make them seem herokc through their actions, to make it seem like they did try but no.

I have never seen a central theme be this botched, how in the world did they do that? Why did they think it was a good idea for Ruby "The Embodiment of Heroism" Rose to sit in a mansion doing nothing, no planning, no organizing just ..... God, how are they this bad? Like, this doesnt even have anything to do with it being planned in any way, this is just straight up incompetence

4. Very briefly touching on friendship

The friendship is awful and its not solely because they all have the same opinions. They barely interact with eachother outside their designated pairs which leads to it all feeling incredibly hollow. Theyre also practically indistingushable from one another now, which is a shame because it wasnt always like that. Like, I dont think the characters were that well-developed in earlier volumes but they were very well-characterized. But now we've gotten to a point where you can literally copy and paste one characters dialogue onto another and literally nothing changes, it really sucks.

5. Some closing words

Damn, this took way longer than I thought it would and now Im pretty exhausted. I have no idea how yall always write these but props to you! I feel like this ended up a bit rambly but overall, Im pretty proud.

Please let me know what you think of the points I brought up! Id also really appreciate some tips on how to get better at these longer posts because I am planning on writing more in the future (not the near future, probably but yknow).

Thats all I have to say for now, thanks for reading!

#rwde #rwby critism #anti mkek #yu gi oh #ygo duel monsters #yu gi oh analasis

2 notes · View notes