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gralunaisland · 3 years ago

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A Veritable Essay in Response to a Pro Gr///uvian Argument

Because I hate myself and love bashing gr///via, I forced myself to look up “why gruvia is a good ship” (heretical, I know) to find some points made by pro-gr//vians on why they think it’s a good ship, because I sure can’t think of any on my own. This is a post I’ve happened upon, posted below for your viewing displeasure. I shall attempt to dissect each point in this person’s post below the picture.

Here goes nothing.

However, fair warning, this is a doozy. You might need a break during this read because of its length. I'd hope people could finish though so I can see what y'all think!

The "forced anime relationship/ not real life” point

- So this point.

Does Anon (anonymous poster) not realize that a “forced relationship” doesn’t mean that Mashima had a gun put up to his head to force him to write gr//uviugly as canon, it means that the relationship is a product of poor writing?

I don’t know how many times I can rehash just how poor this ship has been written, but I shall do it as many times as I need to I suppose.

Here we go, a lightning round:

Obsession and idolatry are not healthy to either partner. juvia is selfish and insane. Stalking and gaslighting should NOT be fetishized. Gray’s wishes are ignored. What they have is not true love since it's the product of gaslighting, manipulation, abuse, and ego.

Those are only a fraction of the reasons why it’s a disgusting ship, but I shall leave it as that for now because we have lots to talk about. All these reasons (and more) are why this ship is the product of poor writing and therefore is a forced relationship.

All throughout the anime (which I shall use for reference because I never read the manga) Gray shows disgust for juvia, at the very least for her actions. Any hint of affection he displays for her is merely because she’s a fellow member of Fairy Tail, and therefore he treats her accordingly. However, he displays the discomfort he feels from her actions clearly, freaking out every time she gets in his personal space and even going so far as to call her “CREEPY” during the Grand Magic Games. I don’t have the brain capacity to provide all the times he rejects her right now, but if you don’t believe there are many, I believe you and I watched different shows because 80% of their interactions from the beginning were with her lusting over him and him cringing.

All this to say, this is the norm for almost the entirety of the show.

(It should be noted that I have only watched up to after the disbandment of the guild and a few episodes of the last season, the Avatar arc, anyway, and that was enough to see the part about the juvia and Gray sharing a house. I do know, however, about the gr///uviugh garbage that takes place in the 100 Years Quest, and I remember hearing some about Gray and juvia being in a situation where they have to kill the other that results in juvia having a scar.)

Anyway, all the affection that Gray gets for juvia is super rushed and out of the blue after the Tartarous arc. she had done nothing out of the ordinary for Gray.

Risked her life to save his? As if Erza and Natsu and many other people haven’t done that already.

Always been there for him? Well, that is literally the creed of the Fairy Tail family, although unlike them, she has dirty motives for doing so.

All this to say again, the huge switch from being grossed out by her to becoming affectionate is insanely sudden and jarring. Any relationship written like that is poor writing, to have it one way the whole time and then to flip it on its head out of the blue.

And of course the apparent reason for this polarized shift is because juvia sacrificed her life for Gray, as I’ve said. But what’s the difference between her and any of his other friends being prepared to die for him?

It’s that from the beginning, juvia has been declaring her absolute love for him.

That is the only difference.

He proclaims that he will take her affections seriously for once not because he suddenly likes her, but because he feels obligated, indebted, bound to return her affections because otherwise he feels like he’s disregarded her emotions, like he owes her since he “hasn’t given her anything in return even though she’s signed her life away to him”.

Let me tell you this. That’s a big no-no. Just because your stalker and abuser throws their life away for you does NOT mean you have to suddenly return their feelings. They never cared about your feelings—otherwise they wouldn’t be stalking or emotionally and physically abusing you in the first place!

Otherwise, in Gray's manipulated, traumatized mind, she threw her life away “for nothing in return”. Think about it. Gray never said "I'll take your feelings seriously" to anyoneeee else who had sacrificed or was about to sacrifice their lives for him. The only reason he told juvia that was because she had basically bargained her life away for his devotion. she already had her cards on the table- she already let Gray know what she wanted- with her open declarations of love, and all she needed was for Gray to feel compelled to throw his hat in the ring.

In other words, the reason why Gray wouldn't promise to take the feelings of someone like Ur or Ultear seriously, both ladies who also sacrificed themselves for Gray, is simply because they had never told him that they loved him and wanted him romantically.

Yes, that is very obvious, but again, think about it. Gray would never have told juvia that he would try to love her if she had never pounded it into his brain that she loved him. It is that very fact that shows how Gray doesn't love juvia because of how special she is and how much better she is than the other women who've done the same thing, it is literally only because she already let him know that she lusted after him, and that is the only reason that makes her different.

You might say, “well it’s not like that was her reasoning for killing herself! she was just being selfless!”

To that I say well obviously she was being selfless because she has no sense of self outside of Gray in the first place. her life doesn’t matter to her so it’s no big deal, all that matters is Gray. she doesn’t exist without Gray.

And secondly, that may have not been her conscious goal, but if she had really wanted Gray to fall in love with her organically, naturally, for her as a person and not because of the one thing she did for him, then she would A, not stalk and harass him and would listen to him when he says NO (consent, people! It’s important!), and B, she wouldn’t feel good about Gray returning her love just because he feels indebted to her.

But nope.

she’s just happy Gray-sama is finally not rejecting her disgusting advances anymore.

In any case, that’s never a good start/factor of a relationship anyway, with one side madly and blindly obsessed with the other and with the other side being in the relationship ONLY because of an overwhelming sense of guilt and debt and duty to the other.

- I know this was supposed to be tacked on with the first question, but like what even is this, “it’s anime, not real life”.

Well... obviously???

Who said just because it’s anime and therefore not real life (again, isn’t that obvious?) it gets a pass at being poorly written and just plain terrible? (That doesn't even make sense- there's no script for real life anyway!) Those of us who actually appreciate character depth and chemistry would certainly not give it a pass.

Now, whether you support NaLu or not, I shall use an aspect of it as an example. Their ship has at least some character depth because Natsu has saved Lucy many times, especially that first time when she was almost kidnapped in the first episode, and he introduced her to the guild of her dreams and, most importantly, to the family she loves today. Of course he would be important to her. From the beginning, Natsu was special to Lucy, but the most important thing to note is that it wasn't romantic from the get-go. He annoys and exasperates her all the time, and she initially just viewed him as a weirdo. As for Natsu’s feelings for Lucy, he instantly clicks with her like any other person in FT, but it’s only after Natsu witnesses more of Lucy’s love for FT and its members does he start to treat her a little bit differently. Love for friends is of utmost importance to him, so it makes sense that he’d notice her in his dense way because she loves FT more than many. With him, it’s hard to tell when he’s acting differently because he’s so friendly with everyone, but an example is him acting bummed during that Rainbow Cherry Blossom festival. If he thought of everyone as equal in importance, he wouldn’t really mind one person not being there and would soon forget himself in the merriment. Obviously, we know that’s not what happens.

With all this, we see at least some development and depth. The chemistry is easy to see as well because they’re always bickering good-naturally or palling around with Happy tagging along. Honestly, Natsu's side could definitely use some more growth in terms of the ship because Natsu still doesn't treat her all that much different from other people from what I've seen, but my point is that there's a least some development in leading up to the ship. ALL THIS TO SAY (sorry for saying that so often), NaLu is an example of, while far from perfect, at least a start to a non-forced relationship.

In anime, no less. -__-

See, no excuses for poor writing. It doesn’t have to be a true story to be a good one. Before anything, they’re best buds, and I think that is the key point to this.

They did not start off as romantically inclined.

Aside from like all of 10 minutes after juvia initially met Gray, she has obsessed romantically over him for the whole time she's known Gray. juvia literally cannot be more obsessed with him, and that means there was no room for romantic development except from one side, i.e. Gray's. He could do no wrong in her eyes, and she needed to have him all to herself. Just because he was kind to her once, she believed she owned him.

Those are all major red flags.

Some might protest that it was simply love at first sight, even though none of that sounds like love, and is in fact not love, but even if it was love at first sight, in terms of a relationship, it's still not a good beginning. she "loved" him for having basic human decency and even swooned for him just from looking at him, so it was all surface level attraction anyway. We don't get to see any natural development of feelings and loyalty between the two because one is already there and has always been there, and the other has to be pressured there because, again, the other one is already there. There isn't any organic falling in love from either side.

The “blame it on the storyline etc.” point

- I don’t think Anon realizes that that’s what anti-gruvians are doing essentially. It’s really what any person who has a problem with any piece of fiction that someone makes is doing…

Yes, we hate the character juvia and her interactions with Gray, but it’s not like she’s a real person.

We realize this because we’re not insane.

Mashima is obviously the true culprit regarding her bad character, but I mean... We can claim that in one sentence with no real meaning.

“I blame Mashima for writing juvia as a bad character."

Okaaay, then how is she portrayed as a bad character?

“Well, she’s a stalker and an abuser etc. etc.”

Even though it was the author’s will that made a character the way they are, which is how it works, by the way, we still have to scrutinize that character’s actions as if they had their own agency in order to properly judge a character’s goodness/quality.

Okay, anon, we blame it on the storyline, on the author. Does that mean she’s free of critiques, that we cannot dislike her as a character?

Nope, because if you believe that, no one can have opinions on anything people write, because just as there are reasons why we dislike characters, there are also reasons why we like characters. No one asks “does the fact that Mashima is the one making juvia act the way she does mean we cannot like her?”, and you certainly wouldn’t say “I blame Mashima for making juvia likeable”. It adds nothing to the conversation to shift the blame to the author. It doesn’t make juvia any more likeable because guess what, she’s still the same character no matter if we blame her or Mashima, and therefore she’s still unlikeable. I feel like I could've articulated this better but it's 2 AM, so if anyone is confused, just send an ask or comment.

The "juvia is a perfect character” point

- I kinda hate that these words have to be uttered on my page. It is no exaggeration that she is the single most hated anime character I’ve ever watched in my life. ANYWAY. Saying that juvia has had the most character development out of any of the FT characters is such an astonishing thing to say. Sure, she goes from doom and gloom to cheery and obsessing over Gray, but rather than that being character development, it was really just a plain 180. Nothing developed, it was just poof, juvia's crazy about Gray.

Gray did nothing and said nothing to her in their first fight than what a decent person would do, though to be fair, her whole life hadn’t been filled with decent people. Even if he was the first one to be kind to her, the fact that she threw everything away to turn into one giggly stalking obsessive fan-girl for Gray is insanely creepy and concerning and cannot be described as good character development.

It took the span of, what, 2 episodes, for her to change?

she has had some nice moments, like where she opens her heart to Lucy in the Tower of Heaven, or when she saves Cana by sacrificing herself in the Battle for FT (both of which I have problems with anyway), but she is the opposite of consistent with those instances. Instances of her being a good, kind member of FT to people other than Gray are few and far, far between. A few instances of her being ridiculous and unkind just off the top of my head are her trying to drown Lucy by making her air bubble smaller, her wishing harm on her fellow Grand Magic Games FT people so she could fight alongside Gray, her lying to her guildmates that she’s worried and wants to go find Wendy on Tenrou Island when she really just wants to find Gray, her throwing the Grand Magic Games (even though it’s extremely important to all the other members to make amends for all the humiliation and grief the FT members who didn’t get the 7 year skip had to go through with losing all their best members) because she’s too obsessed w Gray, and how about her deliberately ignoring Gray’s rejection at the Ball in the palace.

she looks like a pretty stuck, one-track-minded character to me. she only joined FT because of Gray after all, and although she’s sometimes nice, she would obviously follow Gray wherever he went, even if that meant leaving FT. Unlike Lucy, who searched endlessly for her former guildmates after the guild disbanded, juvia merely followed Gray off and had the time of her life barging into his house and living with him. she didn’t care at all that the guild had disbanded, so long as she had Gray.

That brings me to next part about how she’s apparently “had the most character growth”. My next point is a great point made in an @absolutezerotolerance post, but basically they posted a picture of juvia when we are first introduced to the she-devil, as the Rain-Woman (who was so much better than the fan-girl juvia we unfortunately are stuck with) and a picture of juvia in the rain after being abandoned by Gray after the disbanding of the guild. Same girl, surrounded by rain and gloom, practically dead to the world, and being in a self-induced sickness no less. she remains near dead until being reunited w Gray.

Now tell me.

If a character only experiences character growth after attaching themselves to another character, and more than that, if you take that attached character away, they revert to their old self (and an even worse form of their old self on top of that), would ANYONE call that character development???

NO!

Development is when the character develops for themselves. That is not to say another person cannot help you grow, but to be so dependent on them to maintain your development means you have not developed and are just leeching off that person. This type of person changes only for that person, not because it’s good for you or that person or anyone else, and they have therefore not grown at all.

What's more, her so-called “growth” isn’t growth at all, it’s just different because she’s not a better person after turning into Gray’s groupie. she’s just now suddenly intrusive and insane and manipulative when before she'd just been depressed and depressing.

The "Natsu's had the same personality throughout the anime" point

- If you’re trying to prove juvia’s growth just by putting other characters down, that’s not much of an argument. This, however, might be indirectly Anon's best point. I will admit, like they said, Natsu’s character development isn’t that great. I think that's a product of the nature of his role in the story though. He’s kind of already your standard perfect MC. His ideals are steadfast, he’s fiercely loyal, and he will do anything to protect his friends.

I will agree with Anon that his “personality” stayed the same, though I think when they said that, they revealed that by character growth, they just meant personality change, which juvia did most definitely. Personality does not equal character growth however, especially when your personality takes a turn for the worse. To do such a 180 as she did so easily and quickly just shows she had no solid character to begin with.

Anyway, in regards to Natsu’s development, I’ll say a big thing he has over juvia is that he’s already a good person, someone who will beat sense into you if you’re wrong like with Jellal, and someone who will not kill an innocent man just because of what he might do in the future like with Rogue. juvia is just generally not a “good person” nor “selfless” unless it has to do with Gray (and even then, her “goodness” and “selflessness” is EXTREMELY debatable). That is not consistent character, nor is it commendable.

For Lucy, I think she discovered what it meant to love others, considering that fact that after her mom died, she didn’t have much love given to her. While mostly silly at first, she became to realize the true bond of friendship, well-displayed in the Phantom Lord arc. She learned she was not alone and could rely on others. She sacrifices her body and pride to save Bisca’s little daughter, a girl that Lucy isn’t super familiar with like she is with her team, in the GMG against Flair.

juvia would definitely do that kind of thing... if it were for Gray. juvia did do it once for Cana, but after Tenrou, she became one-track minded again. Also, I have problems with that Cana sacrifice thing for several reasons, but this is long enough as it is. (If you want to learn why, I made a post about it here.)

As a general note, I will say I don’t think Mashima does well with character development. I think Erza’s had some great strides at least once with the whole armor thing. After that, the "no armor" thing has just basically been her go-to OP mode which doesn't make much sense. Gajeel is definitely fighting for good now, as well as many enemies in Fairy Tail's world. But a lot of the characters seem a bit stagnant to some degree. With juvia however, I will say that I just don’t think she’s really changed, and her personality change isn’t even a good thing.

- Continuing on, about the "comparing to juvia" section of the point, I feel like Anon accidentally proved us right about gr///via.

Yes, you're right, Anon, juvia had been in Phantom Lord for a while, and then she went on to try to join Fairy Tail for the sole reason of her "sense of attraction" to Gray.

I really don't see your point.

Is that supposed to show any kind of character development on her part? Anon does realize that this switching of guilds is actually on par with her almost nonexistent character, right? she joined Phantom Lord ONLY because they were the first to act like they wanted her, so she would do anything for them blindly, disregarding the fact that her guild was hurting another guild for no reason besides jealousy, rivalry, and greed, not to mention almost killing all of them with the Jupiter cannon (and especially Makarov with the magic-sucky-suck move), and trying to kidnap a girl.

Just goes to show how blindly she'll follow anyone who shows her an inkling of kindness back in her early days (because subsequently, people are kind to her like Lucy, and yet she treats them like dirt because of her delusion that she owns Gray).

Then Gray was nice to her, and she imprinted on him harder than a baby chicken. That being her sole reason to join Fairy Tail shows that she didn't suddenly get a change of heart to try to make amends and become a good person, like a good plot development of her character would be, she actually just joined, disregarding the bad things she did to Fairy Tail, dumping her old guild mates except Gajeel as an after thought, because of her addiction to all things "Gray-sama".

Are we supposed to pretend like that's a good thing? A good thing for Fairy Tail? Or a good thing in terms of character growth? It really was neither. Something I hadn't thought of before is that although juvia was the reason Lucy got kidnapped, literally drowned her until she passed out, instead of trying to make amends with Lucy, even do so little as to apologize, she harasses her whenever she's in Gray's presence. The mean-spiritedness of that just shocks me.

How awful of a person do you have to be to be an absolute a-hole over a delusional romantic interest to someone you hurt so badly?

[This reminds me of Kazutora in Tokyo Revengers. (Spoiler warning!) He killed Shinichiro, Mikey's brother, while trying to steal a bike for him, and in order to make it make sense, he lost his mind and blamed Mikey for his own actions, when he was the one who was wronged by Kazutora and lost his fricking brother. Yes, Kazutora tries to redeem himself, and I can sort of understand it since it was clear that he was mentally unstable and unwell, but even so, during that period, I hated Kazutora. He did the same exact disgustingly toxic thing juvia does: create a victim and then blame and harass that victim.

And yet unlike Kazutora, juvia never completely comes out of her stupor. she never begs Lucy or Fairy Tail, or most importantly of all, Gray for forgiveness. she never acknowledges that what she does is utterly immoral and wrong. And that makes her infinitely worse.]

And yet Anon has the gall to use the only defense pro-gr///vians have addressing her terrible treatment of other women in Fairy Tail, that "it's only comedy".

Of course, thanks to the nature of comedy, this seems like an impenetrable defense since comedy is subjective. All they have to do is claim they find it funny, and therefore they are justified in liking the way she treats women whom she views as romantic rivals. While the subjectivity of comedy may be true, I believe there exists humor that just shouldn't be found funny on a moral standpoint. I'd rather not give examples because then it can get very dark, but if you imagine the worst things that happen on this Earth, there are plenty of things that no one should make light of.

Continuing to elaborate on why I personally don't think her actions are joke-material, I firstly want to say I have never found her fits of fury and passion funny. Even before I shipped Gray with someone else, even when I was a 12-year-old watching this show for the first time almost a decade ago, juvia's disgusting behavior perturbed me to no end. I hated seeing her on-screen at all. Seeing her hate Lucy rubbed me the wrong way- Lucy, who is just genuinely trying to be everyone's friend in the guild, considering how she considers them her family, maybe more than most of them do. Fairy Tail is her life, and for juvia to join it just for Gray and to hate Lucy just because Gray had the audacity to say he'd die to save Lucy from her clutches, when he owed nothing to juvia because they had literally just met, the attraction was one-sided, and they were MOST CERTAINLY not dating.

I mean, look at juvia's level of maturity when Gray said that in the Phantom Lord arc. she was allll prepared to step aside, abandon her guild's goals just because "ice boy hawt" and decidedly not because she was trying to do the right thing, but as soon as Gray shows his passion for protecting his guild mates, she freaks, yelling that Lucy, whom she's never really met before besides the time she KIDNAPPED HER, "cannot be allowed to live", and then proceeds to try to boil Gray alive.

I am struggling to see how that's funny.

That's just immaturity and insanity, and I would say downright evil. Lucy had done nothing to juvia, yet she was prepared to kill both Gray and Lucy even though her guild was the one that was in the wrong in the first place.

It is insulting to say that juvia is still a good person even after doing those kinds of things "for comedy's sake". Regardless if it is over-the-top to make it funny to some people, they are still actions she took very seriously. I find no fault in judging her on those actions as if she meant them, because she does. Never once does she laugh it off whenever she called Lucy a blonde bimbo or said she'd kill her, or when she suspected Lisanna for going after Gray when she offered to help her in the S Class Trials etc. etc., nor does anyone else laugh it off. The receiving end or the onlookers of the harassment are always uncomfortable and put off by her behavior. (Yet of course they somehow still all support juvia in her manic quest for "Gray-sama's" affection. I don't know, man, what can I say? Terrible writing and absolutely despicable behavior by Gray’s guild mates.)

- However, I shall say this on the "it's just comedy" front that so many pro-gr///viughs protest about juvia's overexaggerated obsession with Gray. Just like how I don't find Mest/Doranbolt's pedophilic tendencies/implications towards Wendy funny or cute in the slightest, so also do I not find someone who stalks, who creeps, who lashes out at innocent people, who creates out-of-character delusions of you, who creates a loofa made of your face and uses that same loofa to wash her privates and finds pleasure in it, who forcefully intrudes and lives with you while also trying to sleep with you in your own bed even though you say no, who gaslights, who manipulates, who doesn't take no for an answer, who doesn't ask for consent to touch you and say sexual or romantic things you don't want to hear, who assumes she owns you when nothing you've done suggested that you wanted that and in fact told her the opposite, to be funny in the slightest.

The fact that she's a woman makes many people find it harmless and comical, but as many before me have said, switch the genders and people would label a male juvia as a filthy pervert who doesn't respect a woman's consent. Why is she not viewed as a filthy pervert who doesn't respect a man's consent? That is literally what she is, and I am still to this day unsure how people find that perverse and r*pey behavior humorful... But I suppose there's no helping that if you truly do find it that way I suppose.

The "hating juvia bc she's obsessed with Gray and give me input on Lucy" point

- With this point, I was almost at a loss for words. Not because Anon had stumped me, but because of the ridiculousness of the argument.

Why can't pro-gr//vians just give a darn argument for their ship without putting other characters WHO ARE NOT RELATED TO THE SHIP down?? That doesn't make your argument stronger, it makes it more easily destroyed. Instead of providing a rebuttal for why juvia's obsession with Gray is a bad thing, Anon proceeded to COMPLETELY DUCK AROUND THE POINT and attack Lucy?? Even if you don't like Lucy, that leap in logic makes no sense.

You can just ask yourself:

"Okay, so I don't like Lucy, but what does that have to do with gr///via??"

(Personally I like Lucy, but it changes nothing whether you do or not because she is just not related to the argument for gr///uviugh at all.)

The answer to that question is it has nothing to do with that ship whatsoever. Anon just started hating on Lucy for crying a lot over the course of the show for no good reason. Not only that, Anon exaggerated their hyperbole to "she cries every episode" and "ngl 99% of the show was her crying".

I'm sorry, I think you are completely out of line with that comment, not because I'm a fan of Lucy, but because that statement is ONE, verifiably untrue (do I even need to prove that? Like seriously, she was not crying every single episode and no, Fairy Tail wasn't 99% Lucy crying and 1% gr///uviugh. Who would watch that?), and TWO, does nothing to prove why juvia's obsession is a "good thing."

Plus, crying harms no one. Even if you find it kind of annoying to see a lot, are you going to fault someone who cries at truly sad moments? She's never crying for no reason. Plus, almost every main character has cried at least several times in the manga. It just gives the situations our heroes find themselves in depth and meaning.

Anyway, crying shows Lucy cares that much about her guildmates, who were her family when her own family crumbled; crying shows how deep and expansive her heart is for others. She empathizes and loves deeply, and to say that's a bad thing is quite heartless. But see, where her crying harms no one, (crying is not abuse, and I have no idea how Anon is claiming someone's crying to be on par with someone's stalking), juvia's obsession harms Gray quite deeply. Again, no consent and no regard for his feelings, plus all the manipulation she enacts on him to make him think he loves her.

juvia's distrust of all women also harms her relationship with them, and the fact that her bullying did nothing to harm her relations w the guild is another example of Mashima's poor writing. her obsession harms herself, as she brings herself to the point of death from sickness when Gray disappears. So much harm. Again, this particular "point" made by anon just might be the worst one they have made here.

The "I'm in the mood to drop this" statement

- I am not surprised at all that you are, because you have made no good argument for the ship. I applaud the effort, however.

The "I hated the anime but watched it bc of juvia's personality and therefore I am biased" point

- I have no qualms w you wanting to watch an anime for just one character. I am glad you acknowledge that you are biased. MY PROBLEM IS is that while you say this, you still have said nothing to back up why her personality is good in the first place. You can't just say "sometimes people just favor one character over the other and that's normal" in the context of an argument, as that is not an argument for why she is likable.

Yes, in the end, I am not trying to convince this person to hate juvia. We all have opinions that are very hard to change. However, I am picking apart her character bit by bit to show why I do not think she is likable, and Anon is there trying to defend why she's likable and the best character by putting down other characters, by saying "I like her personality" when Anon would have to further clarify what about her personality is likeable, by saying she has more character growth than others when that is objectively false whether you like her or not, and by saying "I just like her more and that's normal".

The entire post made by Anon is a non-argument.

The "I don't see why you have to make a thread bashing a character" point

- Just like how you are able to make a whole post defending a character, so can people make posts bashing a character. It goes both ways, Anon. Since we are all entitled to our opinions, it's just something we can do. If we are frustrated with a character, why not rant about it on the internet? You say "you could make a thread bashing Lucy, but you don't because you're not childish", but seriously, Anon. Half your argument in response to why juvia's obsession is a bad thing is that Lucy sucks, so I have no idea why you think bashing a character is childish.

You are literally as childish if you really think ranting on a character is childish, according to your own definition of childish, Anon.

Just like how you love juvia so much and are allowed to expound on her good attributes (*cough cough* there are none) on the internet, so too can someone hate on her just as much. The internet is and has never been a place where you can only say positive things about people or things. If it were, it would be a place even more filled with lies because not everything has good sides to it.

Other people on the internet owe you nothing. They don't have to hide their opinions just because you love a character. Don't believe the world revolves around your opinions, and especially don't think you're somehow above it all when you literally kept bashing a character yourself. (By the way, I do not find bashing a character to be childish, nor do I find praising a character to be childish.)

Have some self-awareness.

Disclaimer

Yes, in the end, who really cares whom you like? It's all fictional characters, (although I believe popular media affects real life) and this argument was more for fun than any real attempt at changing people's minds. No essay on Tumblr will probably ever change a pro-gr//uviuggo's mind, and that's okay. We'll all live. Won't stop me from bashing her though >:3

Closing Notes:

Well, I think I have covered every base. I hope this all made sense. To be honest, I was planning on cutting this up into several posts considering how behemoth this post is, but then I thought people might not see my response to every point given so I just left it as one mega-post. I am sorry for the length; I hope some of y'all survived.

If any of you think I made a bad point, have any questions, or if you would like me to go more in depth on anything, please feel free to comment or send me an ask. I have my asks on so I hope that is working; like I said before on my blog, I am very new to Tumblr. Thank you for your time! Have a wonderful day.

#anti gruvia #natsu dragneel #lucy heartfilia #gray fullbuster #gray deserves better #pro-gray fullbuster #ft #defend gray fullbuster #defend Lucy heartfilia #fairy tail discourse #anti juvia #anti juvia loxar #anti juvia lockser #fairy tail #anti gray x juvia #gralunaessay #gruviugh #gruvia can burn #gruvia sucks

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