#undergarden forest

[julia-jck]

Merry Christmas and/or Happy Holidays! I know that most celebrate on the 25th, but in Sweden we celebrate on the 24th.

I'm hoping you are having a wonderful time with friends and family and that you're staying safe and sound 😊

My ask box is currently off right now (if I did it correctly) and will be off for a few days as there's something bad that's going to happen soon. It seems that people are going to share gore and use fandom # that aren't related and send it through asks too? (More info here) I luckily missed it last year as I weren't that active back then.

[julia-jck]

........... How the Fu- have I missed this???? It's from may.... I'M SO SORRY!!!!!

This is really cute! And you drew him so well! This made my day ^^ (Now I know what I have to do when I have time)

I really wanted to draw Onyx meeting Forest Sans. Onyx will be fascinated by him. They would also like his company. They could come to this AU to relax safely.

Forest Sans belong to @julia-jck

Onyx belong to me

[aurora-starlight-silly]

Hello there! I love your art, it’s very blueberry flavored /pos

To Aurora, what’s your favorite kind of flower?

- Lavender Anon

I should visit them again sometimes !

<- Previous • Next ->

•beginning

Man, I love forest. Forest belong to @julia-jck !

Aurora really loves to visit new AUs ! And she tried to not bee seen, but she's not very good at it. So she met forest, and forest explained alot of things abt flowers to Aurora ! (Reminder: she loves to know new things)

Aurora kept the flower, because when she goes to an au and lived it alot, she tries to bring something with her as a reminder of this au. Sorry if it's not making sence 😅

I had so much fun drawing forest, I love forest so much. And, to be honest, I'M SUPER PROUD OF THESE ARTS !

I love the flower one so much, it's on my pfp now

Also, tysm !

Edit: sry tumblr made the quality ugly

[sunnyjester]

:O

i love his character design and just all around character, so pretty

Forest Sans belongs to @julia-jck

[switchthedragon]

Some fanart/sketch art of @julia-jck’s Forest Sans!

This man’s so pretty I-

Me rn:

[julia-jck]

Welp, guess Forest dies 🙃

I'm not taking it seriously, don't worry. But I were confused at first, lol

(Context to this post to those that don't know: they're doing a Sans AU sexy man competition with more unknown AUs, and Forest is going against their character, lol)

Love that you're using that picture of Forest, btw

LET'S FUCKING SEE

ROUND 1: 3

@askmistaketalesurgesans

@julia-jck

*It's not cheating it's called EXISTING!

LETS FUCKING SEE IF THE MYTH IS REAL

@billcipher-rpblog

*BILL I DARE TO SUMMON YOU

TRIANGULUM, ENTANGULUM. METEFORIS DOMINUS VENTIUM, METEFORIS VENETISARIUM!!

ASETNOHEPNUS ASETNOHEPNUS ASETNOHEPNUS ASETNOHEPNUS ASETNOHEPNUS

Julia dont take IT SERIOUSLY pls

[auduux]

MCSM S3 Fun Facts/Headcanons

Small post about things that will not spoil anything, at least nothing too big, since i'm getting back into writing s3. Another teaser will be posted today!

Text under the cut.

Since there is technically no god, alchemists and regular over worlders will use "stars" in place of god in those type of sayings. Sailors will use "tides" or "tide", old builders will use "tim", builders will use "bedrock" since it's considered the ultimate building material, warriors will use "netherite" or "diamond" since they're considered the ultimate weapon materials, freds keep citizens will use "fred" (obviously), sky city people will use "sky", and crown mesans will use "sun" or "PAMA." This does not include other (custom) worlds since I currently have not come up with a completed world yet! There were multiple admins before Xara, Fred, and Romeo. This isn't major because Romeo says it himself, casually, in the first chapter. The fine details, however, will be important. Regular people are about 6-5' tall in human measurements, Romeo is 11' tall. Xara is 6'5 tall now, while she was 8' tall. All admins can adjust their physical form as they see fit, even their race. Romeo has two gold ram horns, one has half of it broken off and is usually hidden in his hair since it's fluffy, thick, and long af. Romeo also has a very thin black bone tail with a tuft of red hair, a lot like a lions tail. Most people are unnerved by it since it looks like a spine. Romeo's hair, including his tail tuft, will puff out when he's surprised or excited. When he's mad or sad, it'll flatten. Romeo has elf-like ears that will raise slightly when he's excited/interested. They'll droop, like his hair, when he's mad or sad. Romeo's hair has a lot of uses. For example: It can light up in the dark, it can be used to replace wool in a pinch, it can replace string in a pinch, it can be used as a pillow, and more! Romeo's tail and ears will twitch when he's nervous and he'll fidget with his hands or hair. Both Jesse's will fidget with their suspenders when they're nervous. Xara frequents the underground when she isn't doing anything, Romeo refuses to go with. The admins keep was supposed to be in the underground but Romeo threw a fit so Xara made a deal with him for it to be in the above world, but it had to be in proximity to Beacontown. Xara is extremely skilled in redstone and helps both Olivia and Ellegaard when they ask. She is also very skilled in archery and horseback combat. She has a longbow made of reinforced amethyst, reinforced obsidian, and iron. It is surprisingly durable. Romeo is better at hand to hand combat and uses a scythe. His weapon is made of obsidian, glass, and bedrock. It is extremely dangerous up front but can also be used as a boomerang. However, his aim is shit. He wouldn't even be able to hit the giant enderman. Nell braids Romeo's hair when he visits Beacontown. She also makes it a point to move his hair out of the way so his other horn can be seen. She says the reason is that "It shouldn't be hidden and it looks cute." (I stole this from someone, ong I forgot who it was but it's stuck with me-) I will be basing a lot of mobs and worlds on mods I like and/or modpacks i've created! For example, the mod "Alex's Mobs" has a frog that is in the nethers warped forests. That frog is in chapter 1. The underground is heavily based on the "The Undergarden" mod. Every mod referenced/used will be in the notes of the chapter.

[traceemerald]

It’s the end of the month, so let’s take a look at what’s on TraceSMP right now.

Since I’m the only one that’s part of the server at the moment, most of this will be stuff that I made, though there’s also some naturally generated structures I found.

One thing before you click the keep reading button, there’s going to be lots of pictures, and, at least in this post, there probably won’t be too much interesting stuff.

First thing is my current house, which isn’t really that great, I started in a cave again.

You’d think that after the time I’ve been playing on here, I’d at least have a proper base, but apparently not, I also made a raft.

I was going to put a sail on it, but I didn’t have enough wool, it works just fine how it is, but I’ll probably upgrade it to a boat later, just so it looks nicer.

The interior of my cave house is just meant to be good enough to last me until I start work on an actual base, which I plan to do soon.

Next, there’s a few things I built around spawn for my own personal use, but if anyone else joins the server, they are free to use them, too.

The first of these things is sugarcane.

I don’t have a use for this much sugarcane, I just think it would be kinda funny if the entire perimeter of the island was covered in sugarcane.

Other things include a mine, nether portal, and twilight forest portal.

Oh, and in a nearby cave there’s a back entrance to my house.

The only other thing of note in the overworld is the location I plan to build my actual base, I was thinking of making it in the twilight forest, but decided against doing that.

I don’t want to show where I plan to build my actual base, but it’s not on the spawn island.

Onto the nether.

I’ve found a nether fortress, so let me show you where that is.

Once you enter the nether, you should be able to see a hill, climb that hill, and look out for a passage on your right.

I included the phantasmagoric inferno in the picture because I think it looks cool, that’s the biome with the blue fire.

Anyway, once you’re up the hill, you should find a passage that leads to the undergarden, pictured below, you need to pass through there to get to the fortress.

Don’t touch the flowers, they are very hot, and will set you on fire, even picking them up sets you on fire.

Once you’re through the undergarden, look around, and you should see a cobblestone staircase, though you might not be able to tell it’s cobblestone from a distance, you can tell that it’s gray, head towards that, it leads up to the nether fortress.

As you can see, you have to pass through a bit of the phantasmagoric inferno to get to the fortress, you can also see a magma slime island in the ocean, with a bridge leading over to it.

Usually a magma slime island would have a tree on it, I chopped it down to harvest some saplings from it, I also removed the top layer of dirt from the island, and it looks like the grass has grown back since then.

I’ll go back there and plant some trees at some point.

Those are really the only things I’ve found in the nether, so let’s move onto the twilight forest, which I’ve also not found much in.

The first thing I found in the twilight forest was a skeleton druid house, it’s close enough to the portal that you can see it from there.

Skeleton druids can use poison magic, so watch out for that.

Finally, there’s a naga arena, which held one of the twilight forest bosses.

I already killed the naga, the naga trophy is placed as a decoration in my cave house, and according to the Time To Even The Scales advancement, the Lich’s tower is now able to be entered, though I don’t know where it is.

So, that’s pretty much all there is on TraceSMP right now, I know it’s not much.

I would like remind people that anyone is free to join, you just have to message me on discord, you can find my discordtag by joining TraceSMP’s discord server, which you can find the link to in one of my other posts.

[julia-jck]

Just drawings with Forest and his friends (he's the youngest, btw). I realized that he probably treats Awa kinda like a cat, petting her and letting her climb on him without really thinking about it

Tox belongs to @toxicundernet / @thatguylucass

Awa belongs to @awa-the-skeleton

Forest belongs to me UwU

[patheticnugbaby]

Hunting Ground I

I decided I wanted to do a multi-chapter Halamshiral fic and boy did I pick a lot of fucking work. I wanted to go more in depth over how my particular inquisitor (Adahla Lavellan) felt at the Winter Palace. Later chapters will probably have Solavellan fluff but this one’s mostly just about Adahla learning the rules of a new hunting ground.

After the introductions Adahla felt exceedingly flustered, her hands were sweating under the thin gray gloves, only softly diffusing the harsh, green glow from her left hand. She had never felt quite so obviously marked by it until now, predatory eyes glancing surreptitiously at her from behind gilt masks. She took great care to hold herself firmly, with a straight spine and her shoulders back, taking slow breaths through her chest.

She was careful in the way that she walked, trying to project the easy grace of a confident woman. Dimly, she heard whispers, ‘Dalish barbarian’ ‘knife-ear’ ‘pretender’, each one slowly mounting in her chest, like the pressure of an ever rising firestorm.

She took a soft breath and hardened that hot rage. As she walked back out to the vestibule she gathered the strength of it around her like armor, out of the corner of her eye she caught the tiniest nod of approval from Josephine. She allowed herself a soft smile, let the expression tug at her lips with the slyness of a fox.

“Inquisitor, a word?” Leliana approached her, gently taking her arm and leading her towards the top of the stairs, “May I say first that you did very well, Inquisitor.”

“Thank you, Sister,” She replied, gently patting Leliana’s hand.

“You are most welcome,” Leliana paused, leaning to take a glass from a passing server, “I should tell you that in the absence of Madame de Fer the empress has seen fit to employ a new court enchanter. We knew each other some time ago, she is ruthless and has seemingly charmed the entire court, as if by magic,”

“I will keep that in mind,” She answered smoothly, trying very hard not to show how much the idea shook her, “could you excuse me, Sister?”

“Of course, my lady Inquisitor,” Leliana let go of her arm, seeming to disappear almost immediately.

“Right,” She whispered to herself and sauntered through the next hall, the Hall of Heroes, she thought they called it.

As she passed she caught the smallest whispers, her ears flicked and she stopped, just out of sight behind a statue.

“-commotion in the upper levels.”

“The one off the garden? Statuette?”

They stopped speaking. She heard the sound of hurried footsteps retreating down the stairs. Adahla sighed and closed her eyes.

“Andruil, blood and force, I pray to you. Ma lasa ghilan, ma las Vir Tanadhal: Vir Assan, Vir Bor’assan, Vir Adahlen. Ma lasa ghilan, ar dar’misu.” She did not say the words aloud, only mouthed them.

She knew the gods no longer heard her but the muttered prayer, one she had whispered before every hunt not so long ago, settled some of the wild, nervous fluttering in her chest. She may be bound and trussed tightly in layers upon layers of shemlen clothing but she was still a hunter. This was not the forest, yet it was not so different from it. Instead of trees, there were gaudy pillars and statues, her prey did not hide in the brush or the grass, but rather behind glittering masks and lacy fans.

She was not a hunter who came back empty handed.

Adahla set off with a greater purpose than she had felt in months. To anyone watching she wouldn’t even look like quite the same woman that came into the palace. She suddenly stalked the ornate halls like she owned them, more akin to a red lion than an out-of-place dalish.

“Inquisitor,” Solas greeted her as she strode into the next room, “you have adjusted well.”

“Thank you, Solas,” She paused, tilting her head, “How do you find Halamshiral?”

“I adore the heady blend of power, intrigue, danger, and sex that permeates these events,” He admitted, leaning on the statue next to him, “the nobles don’t know what to make of me, though the servants are happy enough to refill my glass.”

“Seems you’ve drunk enough already,” She teased, glancing down at his half-full glass, “how many will that make when you finish it?”

“I don’t know, I haven’t been counting. Besides,” He gave her a wolfish grin, “I am entirely too sober for this.”

She chuckled, “Will you save me a dance?”

“I can only imagine the scandal of the Inquisitor dancing with an elven servant,”

“Before the night is done I intend to shock them with greater concerns than my choice of dance partners,” She felt a fox’s grin slip onto her face, Solas slightly lifted his glass.

“Good hunting,”

She sauntered further down the hall, she caught snatches of useful conversation. Things she would relay to Leliana at a later date, assuming her illustrious spymaster hadn’t already heard. She turned, nearly running into an agitated Orelesian man.

“Where is Phillipe? Leaving me to deal with Gaspard’s vitriol!”

“That’s awfully rude of him to leave you here with all the work,” She managed to hide their near collision with a gentle, reassuring touch on the shoulder.

“Exactly! Leaving me to relay Gaspard’s death threats to the Council while he rolls some elven maid!” He huffed, then patted her hand, “My sincerest apologies, Inquisitor, I did not mean to shout.”

“You’re quite alright, Ser,” She smiled gently, “It sounds like you have a busy night, especially being down on help.”

“Thank you, Inquisitor, you are too kind. I really must be going,”

“Of course,” She demurred, allowing him to pass her before she made her way to the balcony.

The greenery was lovely, in a well-groomed Orelesian sort of way. She very much preferred the wilder growths of the forest to well-trimmed lawns and hedges. Abandoned in the lawn, something glinted in the moonlight. She chanced a quick look around, satisfied that she was alone, she hopped over the banister and snatched it up.

Clara — kitchen staff — entered servants' wing by main stair 1:30

Vernon — undergardener — entered servants' wing from hall 2:45

Sophie — chamber maid — entered servants' wing from hall 3:22

Marius — footman — entered servants' wing by main stair 3:45

Briala, we need immediate support down there. Something's gone wrong.

How curious. She tucked it into the pockets of her silver cloak and quickly slid back over the banister, smoothing her dress before re-entering the room. She picked a small cake from a tray, nibbling on it at she pressed through the door to the guest gardens. People milled around, chatting, drinking, eating. At least, if you didn’t look any closer that’s what they were doing.

A few clandestine letters exchanged hands, rumors were placed and exchanged, sabotages planned, deaths requested. These people weren’t the prey she was seeking, though the interesting pieces of gossip she heard were hoarded and saved for later. She tried not to flick her ears too much, as much as she wanted to hear everything. After a little searching, she found a door up to the next level.

She hurried up, upon arriving finding it deserted save a few smears of blood on the marble. She kneeled, careful not to get any stains on the silvered embroidery on the hem of her dress. At the end of a long hour of arguments, Leliana and Vivienne had decided on black, white, and silver, not unlike the clothes she wore to greet ‘important’ guests at Skyhold.

She shook her head, removing one of her gloves to touch the blood with her fingertips, wet, but cold. Recent. Adahla licked it from her fingertips. Elven.

Something akin to a thrill ran up her spine and she smiled a hunter’s smile. She stood, gathering her skirts to lift them above her ankles as she stepped over the smeared blood. It led to the library but she wanted to check outside first.

She did not want to walk out of the library only to be ambushed by another hunter. Along the opposite side, laying on the banister were two things, a tiny halla statuette, and a love letter.

She pocketed both and stood there for a time, listening.

The soft din of the people on the lower levels, the steady hum of the Anchor she rarely noticed anymore. Glasses clinked and people laughed. The silver sound of a coin being flipped through the air.

Unsuspecting jackals below her. Scavengers more than predators, scrabbling with each other for scraps of power and reputation. They were not hunters the way she was.

She retreated back the way she came, spying a door. Other halla statues were placed in little alcoves around the doorframe. One such alcove was empty. Adahla smiled and pressed the little statue she had into the empty space.

Silver-blue circles of light sprang from the door. Her ears flicked at she detected the sound of stone grinding on stone as the door swung open.

A tiny room, cluttered with books and papers and chests, lit by one solitary veilfire candle. She shut the door behind her, flipping through the papers on the desk, her eyes reflecting the pale blue-green light.

She found nothing on the desk and started going through the papers that seemed to have been thrown to the floor. Someone didn’t like these letters. She grinned when she found the one she was looking for.

Celene,

We can discuss this like adults, can't we? We both know the weapon at Briala's disposal could not only turn the tide of our war but every war. The empire must control it; I do not believe you disagree. She is now a greater threat to Orlais than anything else. If you and I work together, we can wrest control away from her. Do not deceive yourself that she will be open to negotiation or diplomacy. You know her better than anyone—you know that's impossible.

Gaspard

“A weapon to turn the tide of every war?” She mused, pocketing the letter, “You might just be after my own heart, Briala.”

She stood and pressed her ear to the door. She heard nothing and pulled it open.

The upper balcony was deserted, as it had been when she left it. She stalked to the large double doors leading to the library, being sure that the heels of her shoes didn’t click on the marble. The doors swung open silently and she swept inside. Adahla was suddenly assaulted with the scent of parchment, ink, and old leather with the gentle mustiness of dust.

She ran her hands along the books on the shelves, gently pressing her fingers between them to see if she could find any hidden letters or documents. She pressed one particular book, its title faded beyond recognition and heard a soft click. Her ears perked up, then flicked backward at the sound of doors opening. Pride swelled in her chest as she slid into the secret room. A veilfire torch lit the room, illuminating the one letter left out on the desk.

Lady M,

I need you at my side tonight. The unpleasantness in the royal wing has convinced me there is no safety within the palace. I do not expect my cousin to employ magic, but I would hardly be surprised if he provoked another infestation; since my court enchanter is not here to assist me, I must rely entirely upon you. There is no one else I can trust.

Celene

“Lady M’s on good terms with her majesty,” She said aloud, ears pricking at the sudden whoosh of wind.

“She is confident and sure. She knows more than Vivienne ever did.”

“Good evening, Cole,” She smiled, turning to look at him, the veilfire lit his pale face eerily like he was a ghost.

“This place has no good evenings. Just blood.”

“Co-” Her ears flicked when she heard the tolling of a bell, “Fenedhis!”

“They will like you better if you wait until the second bell. Making an entrance, clad in black and white and silver. Starry nights on snow-covered mountains.”

She smiled and gently clasped his hands, “Try not to get overwhelmed here, Cole. I do not know if you can help them.”

“I tried but they kept getting angry with me. They’ve forgotten now.”

Adahla gave his hands a reassuring squeeze before she breezed past him. Her heels clicked unabashedly on the marble as she closed the doors behind her and slunk down the stairs. As she passed through the gardens no one seemed to note her long absence. She smiled to herself as she swept back into the palace, greeted by the warmth of a fire and the scent of alcohol and sweets.

She detected a few whispers, ‘A dalish?’ ‘One of those barefoot vagabonds?’, Adahla let herself shrug them off. She was Dalish and she was proud. She was proud of the pale vallaslin over her left eye, her ears that flicked and turned to hear better, her eyes that saw more in the dark than any shem’s would. She sauntered back through the vestibule, her head stretched to open the door when she heard the soft sound of human shoes trying to be quiet on the marble.

“Well, well, what have we here?” Adahla turned to face the voice, coming down the stairs, “The leader of the new Inquisition, fabled herald of the faith.” A pale woman, dark hair piled on her head wearing an extravagant red gown, “Delivered from the grasp of the fade by the hand of Blessed Andraste herself.” The woman said it like it was a joke, yellow eyes glinting at her, “What could bring such an exalted creature here to the Imperial Court, I wonder? Do you even know?”

Adahla settled back on her feet, giving the woman a coy smile, “We may never know, My Lady. Courtly intrigues and all that.”

“Such intrigues obscure much, but not all,” The woman paused and briefly bowed her head, “I am Morrigan. Some call me advisor to Empress Celene on matters of the arcane.”

Morrigan walked by her, not waiting for Adahla to follow but seeming to expect her to. She did, after a moment, as though she wasn’t sure about her just yet.

“You... Have been very busy this evening, hunting in every dark corner of the palace,”

“I am a hunter, Lady Morrigan. This is not the forest but it is a forest,” She replied, smiling at the other woman’s chuckle.

“So it is. Perhaps the two of us hunt the same prey, Inquisitor?”

“I hope so, M’lady,” Adahla bowed her head a little, “I would be honored to share my hunt with you.”

“Vir Adahlen, Inquisitor,”

She carefully schooled her face to not show any surprise, “Together we are stronger than the one,”

“Indeed,” Morrigan began walking again, seeming to lead her around the stairwell, “Recently I found, and killed, an unwelcome guest within these halls. An agent of Tevinter.” She stopped and turned to Adahla, pulling something from her sleeve, “So I offer you this, Inquisitor: A key, found on the Tevinter’s body. Where it leads, I cannot say. Yet if Celene is in danger, I cannot leave her side long enough to search. You can.”

“I may find the time to try a door or two,” She smiled and bowed her head, “Ma serannas,”

Morrigan chuckled, taking her arm and leading her back towards the door the ballroom, the second bell sounded, “Proceed with caution, Inquisitor. Enemies abound, and not all of them allied with Tevinter,” She paused her hand on the door and gave Adahla a sidelong glance, “What happens next, will be most exciting.”

[julia-jck]

Forest's first time seeing a glimpse into the multiverse

Forest: What was in that tea?????

I like Dust and Horror just walking cause in my headcanon, Horror is a bit slower cause of his injury and Dust is just tired.

(Thinking about calling Forest's AU UnderGarden, cause GardenTale already exists)

[honey-bell-aint-well]

@yaaboi-jay

i figured i should post this here too since i havent posted anything in a while sjdkasda

ik its not AU snases but have some peoples ocs :3 chromatic! sans belongs to @enigmaki

Forest belongs to @julia-jck

Orb belongs to @yo-honne

Hesper belongs to @overflowofcrows

Eos belongs to me @cinnabynn :3

its just a small simple fanart thing, nothing big or special aksasdasd

[julia-jck]

VERY lazy pride month drawing with my own headcanons for the skellie boys~

Forest is panromantic and asexual, Ink is aro/ace but likes the idea of a partner, Dream is bi, Blue is gay, Killer's bi, Dust is nonbinary and aro/ace and Horror I thought it'd be fun if he was trans but don't know if I'll keep that.

Also, Dream find Forest to be quite innocent and pure, so he doesn't like that he hangs out with the bad Sanses, and Killer just loves messing with Dream. Aka; no shipping going on there, just some fun.

Also, sorry if I don't answer asks.... Sometimes I miss them and sometimes I forget..... I'm also very tired and busy with moving and my summer job....

[julia-jck]

Random idea I got with Forest...:

What if he had a cane? What if he got a leg injury that made it so he needed a cane to walk to not feel as much pain? It would explain way better why he quit the royal guard (cuz fun fact, he was a royal guard).

The injury would also be a bit more mental health related as his mental health is what doesn't let him recover and heal. Meaning also that a lot of adrenaline probably make the pain go away and let him use his leg as normal temporarily, meaning he can still kick ass when needed like when fighting Frisk, he would just be in agonizing pain for probably a week after that....

I drew the cane too short.... Oops...

This is just an idea though and I don't know if I should make this canon or not. I still haven't shown anything canon to the story yet too, more than a little backstory, so I can come up with whatever I want and not worry about canon OwO

[julia-jck]

What does forest think of underfell? Has he ever been there or met Red?

"He reminds me of a rose cause of the pretty, red flower, but sharp thorns"

(I'm basing all asks about other Sanses and AUs on my headcanons. And my headcanon for Fell/Red is that he's very pretty but hates it as he think it makes him look soft)

[julia-jck]

I have this idea that Forest is a true neutral when it comes to the multiverse, not joining any sides as he would rather have it chill and not get involved. This means that he would be quite ok with the bad sanses and the star sanses, and I have this idea that they actually quite enjoy hanging out in Forest's AU, like Dust who enjoys how quiet it is in UnderGarden. Of course Forest isn't a fan of what the bad sanses are doing, but it's non of his business

(.... I realized that I'm making Forest more and more Swedish as this sounds quite a lot like Sweden during the world wars...)

(I also just realized that the shading and light doesn't make sense..... oops)