#tuoba shao

[incorrectmedievalchina]

Tuoba Shao: I’m gonna need a human skull and I can't have you ask any questions why.

Tuoba Gui: Only if you also don't ask why

Tuoba Gui: *Pulls out 7 pristine human skulls* Take your pick.

Tuoba Shao:

Tuoba Gui:

Tuoba Shao: This one is fine.

[nemainofthewater]

Welcome to the 'Best Character with [X] surname' polls!

This is where I take several characters from different Chinese media (mostly cnovels and cdrama) and run a poll on which one is the 'best'. What does best mean? It's up to you! Whether you love them, are intrigued by their characters, love to hate them, or they're your '2 second blorbos whose personality you made up wholesale', these are all reasons for you to vote for your favs!

NB: the surnames are not exactly the same in all the cases, as often they will be a different character. I am, however, grouping them all together otherwise things got more complicated.

If you can't find a surname, it's because I couldn't find enough candidates (at least 3 from 3 distinct medias) to compete. Feel free to submit candidates!

I will be posting several polls at a time, so do come back and check this masterpost to remember which polls are ongoing, who the winners are, and who's coming up next!

Finished polls: Xing/Rong/Nan/Ren/Pan/Qu/Fu/Sui/Tan/You/Sima/Xuan/Chang/Xun/Shangguan/Jian/Qian/Shu/Xi/Yuwen/Cai/Sha/Yin/Ceng/Helian/Zeng/Lou/Mi/Ji/Ping/Tong/Tuoba/Ge/Murong/Hei/Niu/Tao/Si/Pang/Zi/Gongsun/Mao/Qing/Lian

Chi/Shan/Tian/Dao/Chao/Xin/Ran/Sang/Cang/Miao/Yao/Zang/Chong/Nangong/Kong/Hai/Deng/Kang/Jun/Chun/Gui/Peng/Gong/Dai/Bao/Bian/Leng/Xian/Kan/Hou/Shao/Kou/Zuo/Lai/Tie/Huan/Min/Xiong/Cen/Dou/Misc

There's only a certain number of hyperlinks that can be added per post, so the rest of the completed polls can now be found here

All the details of the individual polls under the readmore

An - posted 15/03/24 WINNER An Zhe

Bai - posted 28/02/24 WINNER Bai Fengxi

Baili - posted 22/03/24 WINNER Baili Qingmiao

Bao - posted 1/05/24 WINNER Bao Rongxing

Bi - posted 26/03/24 WINNER Bi Changfeng

Bian - posted 1/05/14 WINNER Bian Cheng

Cai - posted 7/04/24 WINNER Cai Quan

Cang - posted 23/04/24 WINNER Cang Jiumin

Cao - posted 8/02/24. WINNER - Cao Weining

Cen - posted 7/05/24 WINNEER Cen Xiao

Ceng - posted 8/04/24 WINNER Ceng Aiyu

Chang - posted 3/04/24 WINNER Chang Geng

Chao - posted 21/04/24 WINNER Chao Zi

Chen - posted 9/02/24 WINNER Chen Qingxu

Cheng - posted 10/03/24 WINNER Cheng Shaoshang

Chi - posted 19/04/24 WINNERS Chi Zhanggui and Chi Xiaochi

Chong - posted 25/04/24 WINNER Chong Ming

Chu - posted 12/03/24 WINNER Chu Wanning

Chun - posted 28/04/24 WINNER Chun Shen

Cui - posted 11/03/24 WINNER Madam Cui

Dai - posted 30/04/24 WINNER Dai Mubai

Dao - posted 20/04/24 WINNER Dao Mingsi

Deng - posted 27/04/24 WINNER Deng Kuan

Di - posted 16/02/24 WINNER Di Feisheng

Ding - posted 7/03/24 WINNER Ding Rong

Dong - posted 21/03/24 WINNER Dong Yi

Dongfang - posted 25/03/24 WINNER Dongfang Qingcang

Dou - posted 7/05/24 WINNER Dou Cheng

Du - posted 26/03/24 WINNER Du Cheng

Duan - posted 23/03/24 WINNER Duan Baiyue

Fan - posted 27/02/24 WINNER Fan Xian

Fang - posted 24/02/24 WINNER Fang Duobing

Fei - posted 20/03/24 WINNER Fei Du

Feng - posted 28/02/24 WINNER 'Other'

Fu - posted 31/03/24 WINNER Fu Yao

Gao - posted 13/02/24 WINNER Gao Xiaolian

Ge - posted 13/04/24 WINNER Ge Chen

Gong - posted 30/04/24 WINNER Gong Yu

Gongsun - posted 17/04/24 WINNER Gongsun Heng

Gu - posted 7/03/24 WINNER Gu Xiang

Guan - posted 17/03/24 WINNER Guan Hemeng

Gui - posted 29/04/24 WINNERS Gui Wen, Gui Yang, Gui Bai and 'Other'

Guo - posted 9/02/24 WINNER Guo Changcheng

Hai - posted 26/04/24 WINNER Hai Lanshi

Han - posted 17/03/24 WINNER Han Ying

Hao - posted 16/03/24 WINNER Hao Du

He - posted 22/03/24 WINNER He Xuan

Hei - posted 14/04/24 WINNER Hei Xiazi

Helian - posted 9/04/24 wINNER Helian Yi

Hong - posted 8/03/24 WINNER Hong Qigong

Hou - posted 3/05/24 WINNER Hou Bin

Hu - posted 6/03/24 WINNER Hu Tianying

Hua - posted 21/02/24 WINNER Hua Cheng

Huan - posted 6/05/24 WINNER Huan Xiaoyan

Huang - posted 20/03/24 WINNER Huang Shaotian

Huo - posted 25/02/24 WINNER Huo Xiuxiu

Ji - posted 11/04/24 WINNER Ji Xue

Jia - posted 18/03/24 WINNER Jia Kui

Jian - posted 4/04/24 WINNER Jian Buzhi

Jiang - posted 12/02/24 WINNER Jiang Cheng

Jiao - posted 27/03/24 WINNER Jiao Liqiao

Jin - posted 29/02/24 WINNER Jin Ling

Jing - posted 14/03/24 WINNER Jing Beiyuan

Jun - posted 28/04/24 WINNER 'Other"

Kan - posted 3/05/24 WINNER Kan Jian

Kang - posted 27/04/24 WINNER 'Other'

Kong - posted 26/04/24 WINNERS Kong Xiu and Alexis Kong

Kou - posted 4/05/24 WINNER Kou Baimen

Lai - posted 5/05/24 WINNER Lai Zhongshu

Lan - posted 23/02/24 WINNER Lan Wangji

Lei - posted 12/03/24 WINNER Lei Wujie

Leng - posted 2/05/24 WINNER Leng Yue

Li - posted 18/02/24 WINNER Li Lianhua

Lian - posted 18/04/24 WINNERS Lian Yufan and Lian Qiao

Liang - posted 13/03/24 WINNER 'Other'

Lin - posted 14/02/24 WINNER Lin Chen

Ling - posted 6/03/24 WINNER Ling Wen

Liu - posted 16/02/24 WINNER Liu Qingge

Long - posted 23/03/24 WINNER Long Zhi

Lou - posted 10/04/24 WINNER Lou Yao

Lu - posted 5/03/24 WINNER Lu Guang

Luo - posted 24/02/24 WINNER Luo Binghe

Ma - posted 13/03/24 WINNER Ma Xiuying

Mao - posted 17/04/24 WINNER Mao Panfeng

Mei - posted 14/02/24 WINNER Mei Changsu

Meng - posted 29/02/24 WINNER Meng Zhi

Mi - posted 10/04/24 WINER Mi Chong

Miao - posted 23/04/24 WINNER Miao Renfeng

Min - posted 6/05/24 WINNER Min Yunzhong

Ming - posted 26/02/24 WINNER Ming Yi

Misc - posted 7/05/24 WINNER Gongyi Xiao

Mo - posted 18/02/24 WINNER Mo Xuanyu

Mu - posted 22/02/24 WINNER Mu Nihuang

Murong - posted 13/04/24 WINNER Other

Nan - posted 29/03/24 WINNER Nan Feng

Nangong - posted 25/04/24 WINNER Nangong Si

Nie - posted 15/03/24 WINNER Nie Huaisang

Ning - posted 19/03/24 WINNER Ning Yingying

Niu - posted 14/04/24 WINNER Niu Chunmiao

Ouyang - posted 5/03/24 WINNER Ouyang Zizhen

Pan - posted 30/03/24 WINNER Pan Zi

Pang - posted 16/04/24 WINNER Pang Yizhi

Pei - posted 20/02/24 WINNER Pei Ming

Peng - posted 29/04/24 wINNER Peng Sanbian

Ping - posted 11/04/24 WINNER Ping An

Qi - posted 22/02/24 WINNER 'Other'

Qian - posted 5/04/24 WINNER Qian Jin

Qiao - posted 10/02/24 WINNER Qiao Wanmian

Qin - posted 16/03/24 WINNER Qin Banruo

Qing - posted 18/04/24 WINNER Qing Ge

Qiu - posted 25/03/24 WINNER Qiu Congxue

Qu - posted 30/03/24 WINNER Qu Lingfeng

Ran - posted 22/04/24 WINNERS Ran Lin and Ran Yun

Ren - posted 29/03/24 WINNER Ren Ruyi

Rong - posted 28/03/24 WINNER Rong Changqing

Ruan - posted 21/03/24 WINNER Ruan Nanzhu

Sang - posted 22/04/24 WINNER Sang Zan

Sha - posted 7/04/24 WINNER Sha Hualing

Shan - posted 19/04/24 WINNER Shan Gudao

Shang - posted 3/03/24 WINNER Shang Qinghua

Shangguan - posted 4/04/24 WINNER Shangguan Qin

Shao - posted 4/05/24 WINNER Shao Lin

Shen - posted 23/02/24 WINNER Shen Wei

Sheng - posted 4/03/24 WINNER Sheng Minglan

Sima - posted 2/04/24 WINNER Sima Yi

Shi - posted 8/03/24 WINNER Shi Qingxuan

Shu - posted 5/04/24 WINNER Shu Yanyan

Si - posted 15/04/24 WINNER Si Yilin

Song - posted 19/02/24 WINNER Song Lan

Su - posted 13/02/24 WINNER Su Zhe

Sun - posted 15/02/24 WINNER Sun Wukong

Sui - posted 31/03/24 WINNER Sui Zhou

Tan - posted 1/04/24 WINNER 'Other'

Tang - posted 12/02/24 WINNER Tang Fan

Tao - posted 15/04/24 WINNER Tao Ran

Tian - posted 20/04/24 WINNER Tian Qi

Tie - posted 5/05/24 WINNERS Tie Yinyi and Tie Miansheng

Tong - posted 12/04/24 WINNER Tong Lu

Tuoba - posted 12/04/24 WINNER Tuoba Yan

Wan - posted 24/03/24 WINNER Consort Wan

Wang - posted 26/02/24 WINNER Wang Pangzi

Wei - posted 8/02/24 WINNER Wei Wuxian

Wen - posted 2/03/24 WINNER Wen Kexing

Wu - posted 15/02/24 WINNER Wu Xie

Xi - posted 6/04/24 WINNER Xi Ping

Xia - posted 11/03/24 WINNER Xia Dong

Xian - posted 2/05/24 WINNERS Xian Ge and Xian Qing

Xiang - posted 19/03/24 WINNER Xiang Liu and Xiang Nanfang

Xiao - posted 20/02/24 WINNER Xiao Jingyan

Xie - posted 21/02/24 WINNER Xie Lian

Xin - posted 21/04/24 WINNER Xin Ziyuan

Xing - posted 28/03/24 WINNER Xing Zhi

Xiong - posted 7/05/24 WINNERS Xiong yipei and Xiong Chumo

Xu - posted 25/02/24 WINNER Xu Da

Xun - posted 3/04/24 WINNER Xun Feizhan

Xuan - posted 2/04/24 WINNER Xuan Shen'an | The Empress

Xue -posted 11/02/24 WINNER Xue Yang

Yan - posted 19/02/24 WINNER Yan Wushi

Yang - posted 3/03/24 WINNER Yang Wuxie

Yao - posted 24/04/24 WINNER Yao Zhen

Ye - posted 10/02/24 WINNER Ye Baiyi

Yi - posted 9/03/24 WINNER Yi Bichen

Yin - posted 8/04/24 WINNER Yin Yu

Ying - posted 17/02/24 WINNER Ying Hecong

You - posted 1/04/24 WINNER You Huo

Yu - posted 11/02/23 WINNER Yu Ziyuan

Yun - posted 1/03/24 WINNER Yun Biqiu

Yuan - posted 27/02/24 WINNER Yuan Boya

Yue - posted 4/03/24 WINNER Yue Qingyuan

Yuwen - posted 6/04/24 WINNER Yuwen Xuan

Zang - posted 24/02/24 WINNER Zang Ming

Zeng - posted 9/04/24 WINNER Zeng Xiangdong

Zhan - posted 10/03/24 WINNER Zhan Yunfei

Zhang - posted 17/02/24 WINNER Zhang Qiling

Zhao - posted 1/03/24 WINNER Zhao Yunlan

Zhen - posted 24/03/24 WINNER Zhen Ping

Zhi - posted 14/03/24 WINNER Zhi Xiu

Zhong - posted 27/03/24 WINNER Zhong Li

Zhou - posted 2/02/24 WINNER Zhou Zishu

Zhu - posted 9/03/24 Winner Zhu Hong

Zhuge - posted 18/03/24 WINNER Zhuge Liang

Zi - posted 16/04/24 WINNER 'Other'

Zuo - posted 5/05/24 WINNER Zuo Ran

[bookofjin]

What's your opinion on 'revisionist' takes surrounding Tuoba Gui and Tuoba Si? For example, the claim that Tuoba Gui was actually Tuoba Shiyijian's son and falsified his age. And there have been opinions I've seen that Tuoba Si fabricated the cause of his mother's death, changed his name for legitimacy, and that Tuoba Shao was the intended heir.

There does seem to something odd going on with Tuoba Gui and his supposed cousins, but I'm not sure changing his age is the solution. I think that just creates new problems. I like better the suggestion that Shiyijian married Gui's widowed mother in some kind of levirate arrangement.

Events surrounding Tuoba Si's succession to the throne are a bit murky, but I'm not sure if the alternative theories really go beyond speculation. Speculation is fun of course.

[craftercat]

WS29.2.1, Biography of Shusun Jun

(His clan name was actually Yizhan. The Yizhan clan changed their clan name to Shusun during the Sinicisation reforms of Emperor Xiaowen. Also, providing some context and explanation for the Northern Wei practice of encouraging the suicides of officials' widows which started with him)

Biography

[Yizhan Jian]'s eldest son was Jun, courtesy name Chougui, [he was] intelligent at a young age. At the age of fifteen, attended the imperial palace as a retainer. Had a cautious and calm character, and did not exceed his capabilities. In order to be a horse mount archer, was transferred as a hunting official [1].

長子俊，字醜歸，少聰敏。年十五，內侍左右。性謹密，初無過行。以便弓馬，轉為獵郎.

Emperor Taizu [posthumous name Emperor Daowu, personal name Tuoba Gui] died, the Prince of Qinghe, Shao, shut the palace gates [2], and Taizong [posthumous name Emperor Mingyuan, personal name Tuoba Si] was outside [3]. Shao forced Jun to act to assist him. Although Jun on the outside submitted to Shao, on the inside he had true loyalty, therefore with Yuan [4] Mohan and others criticised Shao, pledging allegiance to Taizong. This affair is in the biography of Mohan.

太祖崩，清河王紹閉宮門，太宗在外。紹逼俊以為己援。俊外雖從紹，內實忠款，仍與元磨渾等說紹，得歸太宗。事在磨渾傳。

At this time of Taizong's retainers, only Che [5] Lutou, Wang Luo'er and others, were able to reach Jun and others' [assistance], [Taizong] was very pleased [with him], [Jun] acted as an attendant.

是時太宗左右，唯車路頭、王洛兒等，及得俊等，大悅，以為爪牙。

When Taizong succeeded to the throne, ordered that Jun, Mohan and others correct the errors of the retainers. Was transferred as a guard general and bestowed as Duke of Ancheng.

太宗即位，命俊與磨渾等拾遺左右。遷衞將軍，賜爵安城公。

The Prince of Zhuti, Yue, carried a knife in his bosom and entered within the imperial residence, to goad a major rebellion. Jun realised Yue's actions were unusual, and easily held his hand and pulled it back, thus within Yue's bosom there were two daggers, [Yue] was thereupon executed.

太宗即位，命俊與磨渾等拾遺左右。遷衞將軍，賜爵安城公。朱提王悅懷刃入禁中，將為大逆。俊覺悅舉動有異，便引手掣之，乃於悅懷中得兩刃匕首，遂殺之。

Taizong grasped Jun's significant merits from beginning to end, the policies of military affairs and civil administration were all according to his appointment, many officials starting their posts were earlier by Jun selected and inspected, and after that were presented and confirmed.

太宗以俊前後功重，軍國大計一以委之，群官上事，先由俊銓校，然後奏聞。

[Jun] had a just, fair and gentle character, and his form was not likely to be easily angered. [He was] loyal, devoted and genuine, and did not flatter his superiors or repress his subordinates. Every time he received an imperial edict and announced it to the outside, he would certainly announce [it] politely, the receivers would all be fulfilled and retreat, and those with confidential matters would turn away and arrive at the torch [6] again. Therefore his superiors and subordinates admired and praised him.

性平正柔和，未嘗有喜怒之色。忠篤愛厚，不諂上抑下。每奉詔宣外，必告示殷勤，受事者皆飽之而退，事密者倍至蒸仍。是以上下嘉歎。

Died in the first year of Taichang [416 CE], was twenty-eight [7] at the time, Taizong was excessively anguished and mournful, went in person and was deeply aggrieved. In all levels of society, there was no lacking in their pursuit of pity. Bestowed as Palace Attendant, Minister of Land and Water and Prince of Ancheng [8], with the posthumous name of Filial and Fundamental [xiaoyuan].

泰常元年卒，時年二十八，太宗甚痛悼之，親臨哀慟。朝野無不追惜。贈侍中、司空、安城王，諡孝元。

Was bestowed warm and bright rare utensils, carried using a sleeping carriage, guarded by soldiers leading their followers, and was buried [with other important people, including the imperial family] in the Jin Mausoleum. His son Pu inherited his rank. After [this], when esteemed ministers with great merit and special favour died, the rites with which they were paid their last respects were all according to the tradition of Jun's [9], but did not surpass that.

子蒲，襲爵。後有大功及寵幸貴臣薨，賻送終禮，皆依俊故事，無得踰之者.

[As a part of this], when Jun died, Taizong advised his wife Lady Huan [10] and said:

"When people in life share glory, in death it is appropriate to share a tomb. The capacity for [you] to be buried with the dead may be an undertaking of [your] desire." [11]

Lady Huan thus hanged herself and died, and was thereupon jointly interred there.

初，俊既卒，太宗命其妻桓氏曰：「夫生既共榮，沒宜同穴，能殉葬者可任意。」桓氏乃縊而死，遂合葬焉。

Northern Wei emperors and princes would often go on hunts with their attendants. I presume that Yizhan Jun would attend the emperor or a prince's hunting trip.

2. Tuoba Shao had assassinated Tuoba Gui.

3. Tuoba Si had earlier fled the capital of Pingcheng to avoid his father's wrath.

4. Should be Tuoba Mohan, as the imperial clan name of Tuoba was changed to Yuan by Emperor Xiaowen.

5. Should be Chekun Lutou, as the Chekun clan shortened their clan name under the reforms of Emperor Xiaowen.

6. I presume that 蒸 refers to a type of torch in this context. Torches would be lit as a signal during this time.

7. By East Asian age reckoning, in which a person is considered 1 year old at birth and becomes a year older at New Year, regardless of individual birthday. By Western age reckoning, he would be 26 or 27 years old.

8. He received the title of Duke of Ancheng in his lifetime; he was posthumously promoted to the rank of prince.

9. This likely refers to the death of the wives of these officials, which is outlined in the section below this statement.

10. Should be Lady Wuwan, as the Wuwan clan changed their clan name to Huan under the reforms of Emperor Xiaowen.

11. The Zizhi Tongjian phrases this differently, stating: "In life you shared honour with him [Yizhan Jun], will you share his sadness in death?" The History of the Northern Dynasties records an identical phrase to the Book of Wei, so Sima Guang likely paraphrased the earlier phrase in his record. The outcome was the same.

The Northern Wei practice

The death of Yizhan Jun started a practice in which the wives of powerful and favoured officials would be encouraged into committing suicide upon the official's death. This was first hinted using the euphemism "buried according to the rites of Shusun Jun".

(Technically, Tuoba Si had earlier poisoned Wang Luo'er's wife, but this was an irregular case. All other women to die to this practice were encouraged to commit suicide, yet she was poisoned, and the Weishu dates this practice to Shusun Jun, not Wang Luo'er. Wang Luo'er's wife may have been poisoned for a different reason)

This practice started with Tuoba Si and Yizhan Jun, but it continued into his son Tuoba Tao's reign. Tuoba Tao later buried his official Lu (Tufulu) Luyuan with the rites of Yizhan Jun, indicating this practice. Tufulu Luyuan's rites were even greater, so from then on, this practice was euphemised as "buried according to the rites of Lu Luyuan", which should indicate this practice, as Lu Luyuan was buried with this practice.

I think that although Tuoba Si claimed burial etiquette as his reasoning, the actual reasoning was probably to prevent other powerful tribes from coming to power the same way the Tuobas themselves did - using their maternal connections.

Tuoba Gui used his connections to the Helan and Murong tribes to claim power for himself. Later, Tuoba Shao's attempted seizure of power likely relied on his maternal tribe, the Helan tribe, making two incidents where this method of gaining power was attempted. Tuoba Gui created 子贵母死, and Tuoba Si this policy, to prevent others from using this method of gaining power.

Though the Tuoba clan did not restrict the greater freedom of common women, they restricted the women in elite classes, who they saw as being a threat to their power. Due to their knowledge that they only came to power with the help of maternal connections, they became fearful of these connections being exploited.

It is for this reason that the practice continued after the death of Tuoba Si, and continued to as far as Empress Dowager Feng's regency over Emperor Xiaowen. The practice was likely abolished during the sinicisation reforms of Emperor Xiaowen.

[cdramaddict]

10 + 11 questions tag

Thank you @shenmeizhuang for tagging me with your questions.  Some of the questions here were similar to another tag so forgive me for recycling:

1.    Favorite villain or antagonist.

An Qing Xu from Glory of the Tang Dynasty.  Although I blame him for indirectly causing Zhen Zhu’s early death (if he didn’t capture her, he wouldn’t have had to “kill her to save her”, inflicting internal injuries that ultimately caused her body to deteriorate prematurely) his love for Zhen Zhu was genuine, albeit a bit obsessive. The guy didn’t exactly grow up in a loving environment (his father was a total asshole who probably wasn’t capable of love) so he could be forgiven for the way he expressed his love for Zhen Zhu and when he died I almost shed a tear for the poor guy.

2.    Favorite character trope/archetype.

Hero (often royalty but not necessarily) who is supposed to accept polygamy due to societal expectations and other pressures but only has eyes and heart for his one true love. Examples from most recent watches are Tuoba Jun (Luo Jin) in Princess Weiyoung, Li Chu (Allen Ren) from Glory of the Tang Dynasty and Liu Xiu (Yuan Hong) from Singing All Along ( 秀丽江山之长歌行). Its a character trope that I never get tired of...

3.    Least favorite character trope/archetype.

The sacrificial hero/heroine/OTP aka noble idiocy character trope. While I still may watch a drama with this character trope, I do so with a lot of gnashing of teeth

4.    Least favorite drama trope.

I have 2:

a) Following on from #3 I hate the drama trope where the OTP are doomed to live without each other due to a higher ‘duty’ which means they must sacrifice their relationship for a ‘greater’ good.  E.g. Princess Jie You (解忧公主） and Nicky Wu’s version of 萧十一郎。 The rational part of me always understands the sacrifice is the “right” thing to do but the rest of me just wants them to say “to hell with everything” and just elope. I usually avoid these dramas unless I know that the OTP gets a happy ending 

B)    OTP separations for no good reason other than to create angst for the sake of angst but cause you to FFwd through all the episodes until they meet again or worse if live watching you have to endure weeks of waiting for the OTP to reunite

5.    Name a character that you initially disliked but came to love

Couldn’t really think of one.  The closest one would have to be Peter Ho’s character from the Taiwanese drama Summer’s Desire  泡沫之夏 though I can’t say I ended up ‘loving’ his character.  I did end up rooting for him to get the girl though

6.    Favorite multi-season drama?

I don’t believe I have watched any multi-season Cdramas unless you count Gory of the Tang Dynasty or 错点鸳鸯 (one of Zhao Li Ying’s first dramas as the leading lady). Flawed as they were, I enjoyed both those dramas immensely

7.    Favorite example of trope dissection/dispellation.

The 2nd lead gets the girl in Diamond Lover 克拉恋人. I didn’t actually watch the whole drama only the ending when i heard that Luo Jin’s second lead got the girl. I rarely get 2nd lead syndrome but this was one of those rare examples.

or if talking about a drama that I did watch in total, then Nicky Wu’s wu xia drama 萧十一郎. Where the heroine (Athena Zhu) does her duty and marries the man she didn’t love with good intentions of being a faithful wife to her husband (and in many dramas that’s how things play out) but in  萧十一郎 things turn out differently due to a myriad of complex plot twists my OTP get their happy ending (in a way that does not make the heroine look bad for committing adultery) I loved that drama to bits

8.    Favorite time travel drama.

Haven’t watched many of these but out of the ones I did watch – I loved – GONG (Feng Shao Feng and Yang Mi) and the Hong Kong Drama 寻秦记(with Louis Koo)

I know i’m in the minority but Bu Bu Jing xin didn’t work for me.  I never got over the way Ruo Xi started out loving the 8th Prince but was able to ‘get over’ those feelings and progress to fall in love with 4th prince.  This may have been due to the fact that I watched GONG first and loved the 8th prince pairing. Though Bu Bu Jing Xin was a qualitatively better drama, it didn’t capture my heart the way GONG did

9.    Choose a period drama, sageuk, or wuxia that you would like to time travel to.

Princess Weiyoung - so I can go back and bring Tuoba Jun some modern medicine to cure the poison in his body so he can live a long and happy life, watch his son grow up and rule the kingdom for the good of h

10.  Historical event/time period/historical figure(s) that you want to see a show explore.

'Cos I’m shallow.....no ‘cos i love my hero (a royal or King) who only has / loves one wife trope, i would love to see a drama about  翁归 from the drama 解忧公主 (Princess Jieyou). History says he loved only 刘解忧 in his life time, was devoted to her during the whole time he ruled and he was a reasonably good king. The brief moment of happiness at the end of the drama where my OTP finally got together just didn’t cut it. I was dying for MORE!

11.  Name a show with the best (most intensive yet reasonable/plausible) plot twists.

Descendants of the Sun - ie only if you find the plot twists plausible and reasonable

(I haven’t watched Nirvana in Fire so can’t put that one down but have heard raving reviews about the intensity of its plot twists....)

[incorrectmedievalchina]

Tuoba Gui: I really like this whole ‘good guy, bad guy’ thing you and your brother have going on.

Tuoba Shao: It’s not an act, it’s just that I’m mean and Tuoba Si isn’t

[craftercat]

Found this question on AskHistorian. I want to hear your take on it.

"To what extent is the Tang Dynasty's greater 'liberalization' for women a product of Eurasian/northern steppe culture?"

The full question is on AskHistorian as I am asking anonymously, I can't send a link, but I hope you can find the full question.

First of all, the Tang dynasty was not some utopia for women. Wu Zetian faced significant misogyny in becoming emperor herself, though classism and not being from the Li clan also played roles. From the words of Empress Zhangsun, we can tell women were still generally expected to be subordinate to men, even if they had greater freedom. But it is true there were influential female figures in early Tang such as Empress Zhangsun, Wu Zetian, Princess Taiping, Empress Wei and Shangguan Wan'er, and that women in general enjoyed greater freedom.

The Tang dynasty borrowed elements from the Sui dynasty which was mostly using the same systems as the Northern Zhou dynasty, although there was some southern influence. The Northern Zhou had reversed many of the cultural reforms of Emperor Xiaowen, and even started giving Han people Xianbei family names. I think the Northern Zhou would likely have had a similar attitude towards women as the Northern Wei, and the attitude of Northern Wei is easier to determine due to more records. And Northern Wei's attitude towards women is complex.

On one hand, women were generally allowed greater freedom. It was common for women to participate in the economy by raising silkworms, which was considered a female-centric occupation. This work was valued, and the work women was considered integral to a family's income. Later on, under the equal field system, women would be allowed to have their own land (before this, most people were dependent on aristocrats and independent land would often be given per household rather than per head due to worse census records). The exact legal rights of women in Northern Wei is unknown because many Northern Wei laws are unknown. However, a few legal clauses regarded women are known:

Under Tuoba Shiyijian's legal code, women would be executed along with men for rebellion. This could indicate more autonomy for women, as the reason why women would be spared is that they were considered to have little autonomy and had to follow male relatives. The equality in punishment actually indicates better rights. However, despite this being the law, women appear to have been spared clan punishment from after Tuoba Gui took Hebei, which could indicate the adoption of Chinese views on executing women as part of clan punishment.

Also according to this legal code, men and women who had improper sexual relations would both be executed. This likely refers to things such as an extramarital affair. This indicates that there were still misogynistic attitudes in Dai, although the man would also be executed, which suggests that responsibility was not solely placed on the woman.

In 431, the law regarding pregnant female criminals was changed so that a pregnant woman would not be executed until 100 days after her child was born. Also under this legal code, women could be sentenced to hard labour in the capital making charcoal. It's unclear if women could be sentenced to hard labour in the 398 legal code or before, but they probably could, but not doing the same duty as in the 431 code.

In Yuan Ke's reign, there was a difficult case about a man who sold his daughter as a slave to pay for his mother's funeral, and this case made its way to the emperor. But this was more about seniority and filial piety than gender.

As for women in court, it was common for women to have influence in Northern Wei. Princess Helan helped Tuoba Gui establish himself as emperor, but Tuoba Gui took a hardline stance against female influence and suppressed her tribe. Tuoba Si's sister Princess Huayin had achievements in putting down Tuoba Shao's coup attempt, but it's unknown what she did. Tuoba Si allowed her to exercise influence, as can be seen by her involvement in the debate around moving the capital in 415. She even had her own temple, which was unusual for a woman, let alone one who was the emperor's sister rather than his mother. Tuoba Tao was influenced by his nanny Empress Dowager Dou, who was a major player in the debate around attacking Rouran. He also established a temple for his mother Consort Du. Empress Dowager Chang, Empress Dowager Feng and Empress Dowager Hu were also powerful.

The empress and senior concubines would handle the affairs of the back palace, and Yuan Hong even established an official hierarchy for handling these affairs. Whether or not a concubine could leave the palace depended on the emperor; usually, the only way she could do so is if the emperor released her in order to marry someone else and increase labour. However, there were cases where an emperor would gift concubines to officials and generals.

On the other hand, the Northern Wei emperors were hardly feminist. While killing the mother of the crown prince was more political than downright misogynistic, many emperors held views against women. Yuan Hong considered women to be jealous and harmful, and Tuoba Si once said to the wife of his recently deceased official Yizhan Jun: "When people in life share honours, in death it is appropriate for them to share a tomb. The possibility of being jointly buried with him is voluntary." She committed suicide and was buried with him.

As I mentioned when I discussed the legal rights of women, a woman was not allowed to have an extramarital affair on pain of death, at least under Tuoba Shiyijian. I'm not sure if this law was ever changed. Women's rights on divorce are unknown, but there are no cases of an official divorcing his wife that I have found in the Weishu, which suggests that a divorce was difficult to obtain. Widows without an adult son often had a difficult time, as men did most of the ploughing and hard agricultural work, and so a widow would struggle to survive. How easy it was for a widow to remarry is unclear, but it would be harder the older she got, because the older she was, the more stepchildren she would bring into the marriage, and the fewer biological children her new husband would have with her.

In terms of the freedom of travel that a woman would have, the Northern Wei travel rights seemed relatively high. Princess Dowager Helan once rode a carriage with a young Tuoba Gui, while Empress Dowager Dou once climbed Guo Mountain. The Book of Southern Qi records that the empress and concubines would often accompany the emperor on imperial tours and they would even put on armour and ride horses. Of course, there were much fewer travel opportunities for common women.

The Weishu's Biography of Exemplary Women emphasises the good moral character of the women, but also their intelligence. The intelligence of women was valued into the Tang dynasty, and can be seen in the Jinshu's Biography of Exemplary Women compiled during the Tang, where intelligence was often emphasised.

In the Tang dynasty, these rights seem to have continued. Women were still able to own land, and under Wu Zetian, some accumulated large amounts of land under the equal-field system. Divorces could not be obtained without the husband's consent, and like in earlier dynasties, women were still considered under the authority of the senior male in the household. Women were still allowed to ride horses, and as I mentioned, powerful women often appeared in the Tang dynasty.

This greater freedom for women, despite some misogynistic views, does seem to originate from Xianbei culture, but after Emperor Xiaowen sinicised, female influence continued. Yang Jian reversed Yuwen Tai's Xianbeification, but the status for women did not change, and his wife Empress Dugu held significant influence.

While the higher status of women may have originated in Xianbei culture, by the time of the Tang dynasty, it had gradually entered Han culture as well. It was after Wu Zetian, Empress Wei, Shangguan Wan'er and Princess Taiping that the court scaled back on female power, and due to the court adopting a hardline stance against female power, society became more misogynistic.

[craftercat]

The Succession Crisis of 409: The Coup of Tuoba Shao (2/2)

Welcome to part 2 of the series. In this part, I will be looking at the moves of Tuoba Shao in his attempt to seize power, which will show the failings as a politician that led to his defeat.

There is little record of Tuoba Si during his time on the run. We know that Tuoba Si left the palace in the seventh lunar month of 409, and that he returned in the tenth lunar month. This means that he was on the run for at least two months. There are clues on how he lived:

Weishu volume 34: 元紹之逆，太宗左右唯洛兒與車路頭而已。

"In Tuoba Shao's rebellion, Tuoba Si's attendants were only Wang Luo'er and Chekun Lutou."

Weishu volume 105: 及六年七月，宣穆后以強死，太子微行人間

"Reaching the seventh month of the sixth year [of Tianci], Empress Xuanmu violently died, and the crown prince [Tuoba Si] went out secretly amongst the people."

This shows both what Tuoba Si was doing and just how vulnerable he was during this period. He only had two attendants on his side, and he was vulnerable to being hunted down or persecuted. The second record shows that Tuoba Si's plan was not to flee to another state but to hide amongst the common people. This plan was likely because Tuoba Si hoped that Tuoba Gui would summon him back to display forgiveness and that he would somehow be able to claim the throne.

What was going on in the palace? At the time, Tuoba Gui was handling clan politics.

Weishu volume 15: 天賜六年，天文多變，占者云「當有逆臣伏尸流血」。太祖惡之，頗殺公卿，欲以厭當天災。儀內不自安，單騎遁走。太祖使人追執之，遂賜死，葬以庶人禮。

"In the sixth year of Tianci [409], the astronomical signs had many changes, and diviners said: "There will be a rebellious subject and a bloodied corpse on the ground." Tuoba Gui hated this, very much killed ministers, wishing to remove the foretold heavenly disaster. Tuoba Yi did not feel at ease, and fled on a single horse. Tuoba Gui sent people to pursue and arrest him, thereupon forced him to commit suicide, and was buried with the rites of a commoner."

Weishu volume 15: 初，衞王死後，太祖欲敦宗親之義，詔引諸王子弟入宴。常山王素等三十餘人咸謂與衞王相坐，疑懼，皆出逃遁，將奔蠕蠕，唯崇獨至。太祖見之甚悅，厚加禮賜，遂寵敬之，素等於是亦安。

"Earlier, after Tuoba Yi died, Tuoba Gui wanted to respect the relationship between clan members, and decreed to summon the various princely sons and brothers for a banquet. The Prince of Changshan, Su, and others, more than thirty people, all said they were being tried together with Tuoba Yi, were afraid, and they all escaped, planning to flee to Rouran, and only Tuoba Chong arrived. Tuoba Gui treated him with great pleasure, rewarded him generously, and thereupon favoured him, and Tuoba Su and the others were thereupon also at peace."

It can be seen here that Tuoba Gui executed Tuoba Yi for escaping, but he realised that the other clan members might plot against him, so he summoned them to show his grace but also to observe their loyalty to him. Due to the atmosphere of fear, Tuoba Su and the other clan members planned to escape, and only Tuoba Chong did not. Because Tuoba Chong had been loyal to him, Tuoba Gui treated him very well.

This focus on clan politics may also be about succession. Tuoba Gui wanted to abandon the brother-brother succession of Dai, and he therefore had two options after Tuoba Si left: Tuoba Si's one-year-old son Tuoba Tao or Tuoba Si's brother Tuoba Shao.

Tuoba Gui was very fond of Tuoba Tao and envisioned him as his heir, which I demonstrated in the previous article. However, as a one year old, Tuoba Tao was not old enough to rule and would need a regent, which could lead to instability. Meanwhile, Tuoba Shao was favoured by both Tuoba Gui and the old tribes, and he had some kind of talent to have this support. Tuoba Shao also had some experience of court politics to be able to persecute Tuoba Si, but he had not been successful in doing so.

Either way, it appears that Tuoba Gui abandoned making Tuoba Tao his heir due to his youth, and made Tuoba Shao the heir instead:

Weishu volume 16: 而紹母夫人賀氏有譴，太祖幽之於宮，將殺之。會日暮，未決。

"And Tuoba Shao's mother Consort Helan had an offense, so Tuoba Gui imprisoned her in the palace, planning to kill her. At dusk, it had not been decided."

It seems unclear why Consort Helan had not yet been executed at dusk: when Tuoba Gui killed people based on suspicion, he would often do it with his own hands, and certainly not with this hesitation. It appears more likely that Tuoba Gui planned to kill Consort Helan based on the same reasons as why he killed Consort Liu. Of course, the records on this may well have been changed to avoid making Tuoba Shao look like a legitimate option.

However, Consort Helan did not just sit around:

Weishu volume 16: 賀氏密告紹曰：「汝將何以救吾？」紹乃夜與帳下及宦者數人，踰宮犯禁。

"Consort Helan secretly told Shao: "How shall you rescue me?" Shao thus at night climbed the walls of the palace with several eunuchs and subordinates, violating the prohibition."

That Consort Helan was able to send a message to incite Tuoba Shao to rebellion showed that she was not a passive figure, but someone with influence in the palace. Although the Helan tribe had been suppressed, there may have been supporters of the tribe, such as the other old tribes, still in the palace, and Consort Helan may have exerted influence through them.

This led Tuoba Shao to kill his father:

Weishu volume 16: 左右侍御呼曰：「賊至！」太祖驚起，求弓刀不獲，遂暴崩。

"Tuoba Gui's attendants exclaimed: "Traitors have arrived!" Tuoba Gui was startled, sought his bow and sword but did not obtain them, and thereupon died violently."

Why didn't Tuoba Gui seek his bow and sword? Likely because of a betrayal within the court itself. Tuoba Gui's tyranny had alienated those around him, which made them willing to plot against him. His violent death showed that he had lost his grasp on politics, and didn't understand that fear alone does not inspire loyalty.

This gives a clue:

Weishu volume 16: 於是賜紹母子死，誅帳下閹官、宮人為內應者十數人

"Thereupon Tuoba Shao and his mother were forced to commit suicide, and executed more than ten subordinates, eunuchs and palace maids who acted as internal responders"

A "內應" refers to someone who acts to support someone as an agent. This could refer to the attendants of Tuoba Gui. But how did they support Tuoba Shao? Maybe, when Tuoba Gui asked for his bow and sword, they decided to betray him and support Tuoba Shao, and therefore they intentionally did not give it to him.

However, these events also show Tuoba Shao's flaws as a politician. He relied on the Helan tribe and several palace attendants to kill his father, without really thinking of what to do afterwards. He hadn't gathered support from any of the larger factions, such as the clan, the traditional Xianbei, the reformist Xianbei or the Han aristocrats. His plan to kill his father was reckless and already showed his poor political strategy.

What happened the next day may give some clues as to the power dynamics at the time:

Weishu volume 16: 明日，宮門至日中不開，紹稱詔召百僚於西宮端門前北面而立，紹從門扇間謂羣臣曰：「我有父，亦有兄，公卿欲從誰也？」王公已下皆驚愕失色，莫有對者。良久，南平公長孫嵩曰：「從王。」羣臣乃知宮車晏駕，而不審登遐之狀，唯陰平公元烈哭泣而去。

"The next day, the palace gates did not open until midday, and Tuoba Shao issued an edict to summon the officials in front of the West Palace's northern gate to establish himself, and Shao between the doors called the ministers and said:

"I have a father, and I also have an older brother, who do you ministers wish to follow."

The princes, dukes and below were all startled, and there was no reply. After a long time, the Duke of Nanping, Baba Song said:

"I follow the prince."

The ministers knew the emperor had died, but did not investigate the cause, and only the Duke of Yinping, Tuoba Lie, cried and left."

When Tuoba Shao says he has a "father", he actually means that he has an "uncle"; he is referring to the Dai horizontal succession. But who is this uncle? According to the records, Tuoba Gui's only brother was Tuoba Gu, and he had been executed in 397. So who is this uncle referring to?

The birth and death dates of Tuoba Han do not fit with the records surrounding him. He should have been a child when he died, not someone with military accomplishments and three sons (Tuoba Yi, Tuoba Lie, Tuoba Gu). So it has been theorised that these were actually the children of Tuoba Shiyijian and Tuoba Gui's mother Princess Dowager Helan (Consort Helan's older sister; yes, Tuoba Gui fathered a son with his aunt). Which would then make Tuoba Lie the uncle, granduncle and cousin of Tuoba Shao, and through these connections, if the traditional Dai system of succession were to be used, Tuoba Lie would have been the proper successor to the throne.

But why did Tuoba Shao do this move? I think he was trying to intimidate the ministers. By issuing an edict to summon them and then asking if they wanted to follow him instead of the two people with better claims to the throne than him, he was essentially telling them that he was in charge. Tuoba Lie knew that he was the uncle Tuoba Shao was referring to, and that was why he cried and left. The other ministers knew that Tuoba Gui was dead and Tuoba Shao was in charge, but they didn't know how this happened, and they were therefore afraid and followed Tuoba Shao.

As well, that Baba Song responded first also shows the court power dynamics. The Baba clan were an old tribe that had been honoured since the time of Dai, and Baba Song was the most senior member of this tribe. This meant that Baba Song was the leader of the traditional Xianbei faction at court. The Helan tribe were also traditionally honoured Xianbei like the Baba tribe, and Tuoba Shao's character was likely more in line with traditional Xianbei values, and so Baba Song may have supported Tuoba Shao as a representative of the interests of the traditional Xianbei tribes.

At the time, there were three main groups of ministers: the traditional Xianbei, headed by Baba Song, the reformist Xianbei, which had been headed by Tuoba Yi until his death in 409, and the Han aristocrats, headed by Cui Hong. The political purges of Tuoba Gui had changed the influence of these factions, and in 409, most ministers were traditional Xianbei, even though eliminating a single faction wasn't the goal.

So why did Tuoba Shao lose support so quickly? I think it was to do with the political landscape. Tuoba Shao supported the interests of the traditional Xianbei, but he specifically supported the interests of the Helan tribe:

Weishu volume 16: 肥如侯賀護舉烽於安陽城北，故賀蘭部人皆往赴之，其餘舊部亦率子弟招集族人，往往相聚。

"The Marquis of Feiru, Helan Hu, lit a signal in the north of Anyang city, hence the Helan tribesmen all went there, and the other old tribes also led their sons and brothers to assemble their tribesmen, and they frequently assembled."

This shows not just the shift in power to favour the Helan tribe and the other old tribes, but also the reversal of Tuoba Gui's reforms. In 398, after taking Zhongshan, Tuoba Gui had dissolved the tribes and replaced them with eight artificial units, each headed by a dafu. That the old tribes were gathering together their tribesmen showed that Tuoba Shao reversed the dissolution of the tribes. The old tribes would frequently assemble in Anyang to collect their old tribesmen. Tuoba Gui had assigned fixed locations for the eight units that they were not allowed to leave; Tuoba Shao clearly reversed this, as the old tribes were all gathering in Anyang, which could not have been the fixed location of all of the old tribes.

Another thing that is strange is that the biography of the Helan tribe in the Book of Wei attributes this not to Helan Hu but to Helan Ni:

Weishu volume 83: 子泥，襲爵，後降為肥如侯。太祖崩，京師草草，泥出舉烽於安陽城北，賀蘭部人皆往赴之。太宗即位，乃罷。

"[Helan Yue]'s son Ni, inherited the titled, later downgraded to Marquis of Feiru. When Tuoba Gui died, the capital was in turmoil, and Helan Ni went out to light a beacon fire in the north of Anyang city, and the Helan tribespeople all went there. When Tuoba Si came to the throne, he thereupon stopped."

Both Helan Hu and Helan Ni had the same title, and both lighted the beacon fire in the north of Anyang city. But why is this attributed to two different people? While the pronunciation of "Hu" and "Ni" could be similar in the Xianbei language, if Helan Hu/Ni was Tuoba Shao's second-in-command, then why did he have such an honoured position in Tuoba Si and Tuoba Tao's reigns? And even if they were different people, what were the Helan tribe and the other old tribes even doing at the signal?

I think it's likely that these tribes were assembling together to migrate back to their old lands after Tuoba Shao reversed Tuoba Gui's reforms. Ultimately they did not have the time to actually move north, but that was likely their plan. As well, Tuoba Shao intended to remove the Han ministers from power and elevate the Helan tribe and their subordinates:

Weishu volume 3: 公卿大臣先罢归第不与朝政者，悉复登用之.

"The major ministers who had earlier been returned to their mansion and did not participate in politics were all restored and promoted."

Tuoba Gui did not remove major ministers from office on a large scale; he preferred to simply execute them. This must have happened in Tuoba Shao's coup. Tuoba Shao wanted to empower the Helan tribe and the other old tribes, so he removed many Han aristocrats from office and replaced them with the Helan tribe and their subordinates.

Weishu volume 24: 太祖崩，太宗未即位，清河王紹聞人心不安，大出財帛班賜朝士。玄伯獨不受。

"When Tuoba Gui died, Tuoba Si had not yet ascended, and the Prince of Qinghe, Tuoba Shao, heard the people's hearts were not at ease, and greatly sent wealth and silk to bestow on the court ministers. Cui Hong was the only one who did not accept."

Cui Hong was the leader of the Han aristocratic faction, who Tuoba Shao wanted to suppress. It is likely that Tuoba Shao, in order to elevate the traditional Xianbei, removed Cui Hong from his post and returned him to his mansion. Because Cui Hong was angry about this, he therefore refused the silk.

We also know who accepted the silk:

Weishu volume 24: 長孫嵩已下咸愧焉。

"Baba Song and below were all ashamed."

As I discussed before, Baba Song was the leader of the traditional Xianbei faction. This traditional Xianbei faction were the ones that were bestowed with silk. But this bestowal also indicates that the traditional Xianbei were unhappy with Tuoba Shao. How did Tuoba Shao alienate this faction? Probably because the Helan clan were already monopolising power.

Weishu volume 16: 於是賜紹母子死

"Thereupon Tuoba Shao and his mother were forced to commit suicide"

This indicates that Consort Helan was a major part of Tuoba Shao's governance. She was clearly one of the two main targets of the coup alongside Tuoba Shao, which indicates her power and influence within his government. This also indicates that the Helan tribe were heavily involved in governance, along with Helan Hu/Helan Ni lighting the beacon fire. Consort Helan had likely been honoured as empress dowager by Tuoba Shao soon after the coup.

Who was replacing the dismissed Han aristocrats? Probably the Helan tribe and their former subordinate tribes. I will discuss the Helan tribe and their fall from grace in a separate article, but what is relevant here is that by 409, the Helan tribe were powerless and did not have a major position in court. Tuoba Gui had worked for years to eliminate the power of the Helan tribe, and now Tuoba Shao wanted to restore the Helan tribe - the same Helan tribe that had been involved in a major rebellion during the Later Yan campaign.

This idea quickly made Tuoba Shao a lot of enemies: the Han aristocrats didn't like how they were being shafted and how Tuoba Gui's reforms were being reversed; the reformist Xianbei didn't like the Helan tribe and didn't want to see them in power; the imperial clan worried that the Helan tribe would become too powerful; and now the traditional Xianbei were worried that the Helan tribe would usurp their own positions, and were concerned for a Helan tribe takeover.

To these people, this was just the beginning. What if Empress Dowager Helan and her tribe were to start claiming even more power for themselves? What if they were merely using Tuoba Shao as a puppet, and were planning to overthrow Tuoba Shao and make one of their own tribesmen emperor? Regardless of the disagreements between the factions, they all had one thing in common: they did not want to become or be ruled by Helan Xianbei instead of Tuoba Xianbei.

So if the Helan tribe are so involved in this coup, who was Helan Hu, and was he the same person as Helan Ni? I think they were the same person. Both are mentioned as working with An Tong for Tuoba Si, so I don't think it makes sense for them not to be.

I think he could be Tuoba Shao's second in command who was appointed to gather the old tribes. However he betrayed Tuoba Shao and switched sides to support Tuoba Si, either by working with the imperial guard or leading the old tribes to support Tuoba Si. He may even have helped An Tong gather supporters.

In a way, it's almost laughable that Tuoba Shao thought that he could rely on the Helan tribe at the expense of all other factions to usurp the throne and seize power. This policy shows Tuoba Shao's lack of understanding or talent in politics: a politician should align with rising factions or ideas against falling factions or ideas. Tuoba Shao aligned himself with the falling Helan tribe. Tuoba Shao was defeated not because of his lack of legitimacy, but because Tuoba Si was a much wiser politician than him.

Meanwhile, what was Tuoba SI doing? He was preparing to take the throne:

Weishu volume 16: 先是，太宗在外，聞變乃還，潛于山中，使人夜告北新侯安同，眾皆響應。

"Earlier, Tuoba Si was outside, and he heard the coup and returned, hiding in the mountains, and sent people at night to report to the Marquis of Beixin, An Tong, and the people all respnded."

Weishu volume 34: 晝居山嶺，夜還洛兒家。洛兒隣人李道潛相奉給，晨昏往復，眾庶頗知，喜而相告。紹聞，收道斬之。洛兒猶冒難往返京都，通問於大臣，大臣遂出奉迎，百姓奔赴。

"[Tuoba Si] by day resided in the mountains, and at night returned to Wang Luo'er's house. Wang Luo'er's neighbour Li Dao secretly provided him with supplies, day and night going back and forwards, and the masses all knew, were pleased and told each other. Tuoba Shao heard, arrested Li Dao and executed him. Wang Luo'er still risked disaster to come back and go out of the capital, communicating with the ministers, and the ministers thereupon went out to great him, and the common people went there."

Weishu volume 30: 清河王紹之亂，太宗在外，使夜告同，令收合百工伎巧，眾皆響應奉迎。

"In the rebellion of Tuoba Shao, Tuoba Si was outside, by night sent messengers to communicate with An Tong, ordered him to collect the many officials and craftsmen, and the masses all responded and welcomed him."

These records show just how unpopular Tuoba Shao had become. Not only were the officials turning against him, but the common people also supported Tuoba Si. Wang Luo'er and An Tong were both able to convince officials to switch sides and join Tuoba Shao, which quickly eroded at his power base. Tuoba Shao had tried to persecute Tuoba Si, but he was so lacking in support that it backfired:

Weishu volume 14: 元紹之逆也，太宗潛隱於外，磨渾與叔孫俊詐云太宗所在。紹使帳下二人隨磨渾往，規為逆。磨渾既得出，便縛帳下詣太宗斬之。太宗得磨渾，大喜，因為羽翼。

"In Tuoba Shao's rebellion, Tuoba Si was hiding outside, and Tuoba Mohun and Yizhan Jun falsely stated Tuoba Si's location. Tuoba Shao sent two of his subordinates to follow Tuoba Mohun there, in order to kill Tuoba Si. Tuoba Mohun went out, then arrested the two subordinates and went to Tuoba Si to execute them. Tuoba Si obtained Tuoba Mohun and was very happy, and thereupon became an assistant."

Tuoba Mohun was a member of the imperial clan who had a long relationship with Tuoba Si; Yizhan Jun was a part of the reformist Xianbei faction. Tuoba Shao had tried to kill Tuoba Si, but he was so lacking in support that his own faction was weakened, and Tuoba Si gained more close allies to protect himself with.

Just four days (according to the Weishu) or fourteen days (according to the Beishi) after launching his coup, Tuoba Shao was arrested by his own guard:

Weishu volume 16: 太宗至城西，衞士執送紹。

"Tuoba Si reached the west of the city, and the imperial guard arrested and sent off Tuoba Shao."

I do not think that the imperial guard acted alone. Tuoba Shao had so many enemies amongst all factions that I think it's more likely that the officials turned against Tuoba Shao, and plotted with the imperial guard to depose him. Who led the plot is unclear, and I'll talk about it more when I discuss Tuoba Si's measures to secure his power. After this, the old tribes abandoned Tuoba Shao, stopped the signal and submitted to Tuoba Si to save their own lives.

This final end shows how much Tuoba Shao failed as a politician. He made almost everyone his enemy: the traditional Xianbei, the reformist Xianbei, the Han aristocrats, the imperial clan, and the imperial guards were all against him by the time of his downfall. In the Han dynasty, Liu He lasted 27 days before being removed, and Zong Ai lasted more than six months as the main power. However, Tuoba Shao only lasted fourteen (or four) days in power before being removed, which is a real testament to his lack of political skill.

Weishu volume 16: 於是賜紹母子死，誅帳下閹官、宮人為內應者十數人，其先犯乘輿者，羣臣於城南都街生臠割而食之。

"Thereupon [Tuoba Si] forced Tuoba Shao and his mother to commit suicide, and executed the subordinates, eunuchs and palace maids who had supported him, more than ten people. Those who previously killed Tuoba Gui were chopped up and eaten raw by the ministers in the southern streets of the city."

That the ministers ate Tuoba Shao and the people who had actively plotted to kill Tuoba Gui shows just how hated Tuoba Shao had become. Tuoba Shao had only plotted with several of his subordinates and eunuchs; as I discussed, the others were likely the ones who prevented Tuoba Gui from obtaining a bow or sword.

But was that really everyone he executed? I have already discussed that after Tuoba Shao's arrest, the old tribes stopped the smoke signal and led themselves to support Tuoba Si in order to save their own lives. This meant that Tuoba Si did not need to execute them. But what happened to the Helan tribe?

The Helan tribe's influence was finally relegated with the failure of the 409 coup. Helan Ni did have a position in Tuoba Si and Tuoba Tao's administration, but that was because he played a major role in the submission of the old tribes. What about the other Helans? Apart from Helan Ni, we have no records on any other members of the Helan tribe after Tuoba Gui. We can assume that Tuoba Si either massacred the Helan tribe or that he simply removed almost all of their power and influence, making them powerless to resist their Tuoba rulers.

There are clues as to what happened to the ministers that Tuoba Shao instated during his coup:

Weishu volume 4: 於是除禁錮，釋嫌怨，開倉庫，賑窮乏，河南流民相率內屬者甚眾。

"Thereupon removed civil service prohibitions, mended old grudges, opened warehouses, and relieved the poor, and Henan's refugees who submitted one after another were extremely many."

I think the part on opening warehouses and relieving the poor is Tuoba Tao stealing achievements from his father (because the warehouses were decreed to be opened on the tenth month, while this record is from the twelfth month of the same year; the decree likely didn't get everywhere until after Tuoba Si died) but the part about removing civil service prohibitions and mending old grudges is interesting.

"禁錮" refers to prohibitions on a person joining the civil service. It is usually used on corrupt officials, losers in political struggles and political dissidents. That Tuoba Tao removed these suggests that Tuoba Si had imposed an abnormally large number of "禁錮". However, there was little factionalism within his reign itself, Tuoba Tao would never reinstate corrupt officials, and Tuoba Si wasn't known for his harsh crackdowns. I find it more likely that he imposed the "禁錮" on the ministers that Tuoba Shao had employed to replace the old ministers during his coup. He also used the "禁錮" after his southern expedition to suppress the Henan gentry's power, but I'll get to Tuoba Si's governance of Henan later: the records hide his desire to change Henan's political landscape, probably because it involved Xianbeification of the region.

Tuoba Si recognised that the palace attendants were capricious and might not support him, but he introduced a measure to change that:

Weishu volume 83: 詔泥與元渾等八人拾遺左右。

"[Tuoba Si] decreed for [Helan] Ni, Tuoba Mohun and others, eight people, to remedy the errors of the attendants."

The people who were remedying the errors of the attendants were all supporters of Tuoba Si in the coup. We know five of them: Tuoba Mohun, Yizhan Jun, Helan Ni, Qiudun Dui and Baba Han. We know that Tuoba Mohun, Yizhan Jun and Baba Han were involved in the plan to thwart Tuoba Shao's assassination attempt on Tuoba Si. But what did Helan Ni and Qiudun Dui do?

I think that Helan Ni and Qiudun Dui were the leaders of the old tribes who submitted to Tuoba Si and stopped the smoke signal. I also think that the other three unknown attendants were likely involved in convincing the imperial guard to arrest Tuoba Shao, or even the members of the imperial guard who were the leaders behind the arrest of Tuoba Shao.

He also immediately reformed the attendant system:

Weishu volume 113: 永興元年十一月，置騏驎官四十人，宿直殿省，比常侍、侍郎。

"In the first year of Yongxing [409] in the eleventh month, established the Unicorn Bureau of forty people, who spent the night on duty in the palace, similar to regular attendants."

It can be seen from this that Tuoba Si believed there to be too few night attendants, and that this played a hand in Tuoba Gui's inability to defend himself against Tuoba Shao. He therefore created a new bureau of night attendants, to ensure that the coup of Tuoba Shao could never happen again. As well, these people were chosen by him or his loyal officials, which would make them more loyal to him rather than to any remaining supporters of Tuoba Shao.

Tuoba Si also removed excess palace staff from the palace. He believed that it was better to have fewer, more talented attendants, and that there were too many in the palace. To him, if there were too many attendants, then it created more opportunities for plotting. He therefore released many of the palace maids and sent them to get married, and he likely also removed many of the palace eunuchs from their positions. Of course, the motive was also to increase labour and reduce palace expenses during a time of flood and drought, but I think that his doubts about the loyalty of these attendants also played a role. His strategy of keeping few, close attendants is one I'll talk about later.

He also needed to fix the problems of Tuoba Gui's final years:

Weishu volume 3: 公卿大臣先罷歸第不與朝政者，悉復登用之。詔南平公長孫嵩、北新侯安同對理民訟，簡賢任能，彝倫攸敍。

"The ministers who had earlier been dismissed and returned to their mansions, not taking part in politics, were all restored and re-employed. Decreed for the Duke of Nanping, Baba Song, and the Marquis of Beixin, An Tong, to handle the people's disputes, select the talented and rely on the able, and order and coherence were expressed from afar."

Tuoba Si both stabilised the government and the people. By re-instating the victims of both Tuoba Gui's purges and Tuoba Shao's promotion of the Helan tribe, Tuoba Si hoped to gather support from the officials. He also established central government ministers to handle law cases, which did not exist in Tuoba Gui's reign. This was actually a major step towards a more Han Chinese judicial system, where the central government had a major role in law enforcement. His reliance on the talented also led to more stability. In the end, his practical governance measures led to a stable and orderly reign.

The measures Tuoba Si took after coming to the throne easily shows why he won the succession struggle. Tuoba Shao tried to prop up a declining tribe and alienated everyone else in the process, failing to gather a support base, and even removed important reforms to raise up the Helan tribe. Tuoba Si, however, imposed practical measures to solve the serious problems of Tuoba Gui's later years, and acted in the interests of the officials as a group. Tuoba Si was simply a much better politician than Tuoba Shao, and smarter than him.

I will discuss Tuoba Si's own political measures later on, but for now I'm going to back to Tuoba Gui's reign and talk about his reforms and his founding of Northern Wei.

[craftercat]

WS016.1, Biography of Tuoba Shao

(He is occasionally referred to as Yuan Shao in other parts of the Book of Wei, however his actual clan name was Tuoba. Youthful little traitor. Also cannibalism and incest)

The Prince of Qinghe, Shao, was sealed in the sixth year of Tianxing (403 AD). [He was] vicious, contrary, dangerous and conflictful, and did not follow moral instruction. He was fond of frivolously walking in alleys, stealing and stripping pedestrians, chopping and shooting dogs and pigs, using this as entertainment [BS016: There was a pregnant woman, Shao sliced [her open] to look at the fetus.] Taizu [Emperor Daowu/Tuoba Gui] was angry at him, hung him upside down in a well, and pulled him out when he was dying.

清河王紹，天興六年封。兇佷險悖，不遵教訓。好輕遊里巷，劫剝行人，斫射犬豕，以為戲樂。太祖嘗怒之，倒懸井中，垂死乃出。

Taizong [Emperor Mingyuan/Tuoba Si] would often rebuke him with righteous principles, thereupon their relationship was not harmonious, [Taizong] constantly feared him causing unrest. Then Shao's mother, a consort of the He [1] clan, had an offense, and Taizu imprisoned her in the palace, and would kill her. At sunset, the case was unsolved.

太宗常以義方責之，遂與不協，恒懼其為變。而紹母夫人賀氏有譴，太祖幽之於宮，將殺之。會日暮，未決。

Consort He reported secretly to Shao:

"How will you rescue me?"

Shao thus by night plotted with his subordinates and eunuchs, counting several people, crossed into the palace, violating a ban [2]. Those attending the emperor cried:

"Traitors have arrived!"

Taizu was surprised, requested a bow and a sword, but did not obtain [them], thereupon died violently.

賀氏密告紹曰：「汝將何以救吾？」紹乃夜與帳下及宦者數人，踰宮犯禁。左右侍御呼曰：「賊至！」太祖驚起，求弓刀不獲，遂暴崩。

The next day, the palace gates were closed until midday. Shao decreed to summon the officials to the front of the west palace gate on the north side and establish [himself as emperor]. Shao from the door called the crowd of ministers and said:

"I have a father, and I also have an older brother, who do you desire to follow?"

The lords were all from the announcement startled and turned pale, and there was none who opposed. After a long time, the Duke of Nanping, Zhangsun [3] Song, said:

"I follow the prince."

明日，宮門至日中不開，紹稱詔召百僚於西宮端門前北面而立，紹從門扇間謂羣臣曰：「我有父，亦有兄，公卿欲從誰也？」王公已下皆驚愕失色，莫有對者。良久，南平公長孫嵩曰：「從王。」

The crowd of ministers knew that the emperor had died, yet did not examine the form of the death, and only the Duke of Yinping, Yuan [4] Lie, cried and left. Thereupon the imperial court was wild and vicious, and the people in their breasts changed their mind. The Marquis of Feiru He [5] Hu raised a beacon fire in the north of Anyang city, hence the Helan tribespeople all went there, and the other old tribes also led their brothers and sons to assemble their clansmen. Shao heard the people's emotions were uneasy, thus sent out cloth and silk and gave them to the lords, those in high positions received several hundred, those in low positions ten.

羣臣乃知宮車晏駕，而不審登遐之狀，唯陰平公元烈哭泣而去。於是朝野兇兇，人懷異志。肥如侯賀護舉烽於安陽城北，故賀蘭部人皆往赴之，其餘舊部亦率子弟招集族人，往往相聚。紹聞人情不安，乃出布帛班賜王公以下，上者數百匹，下者十匹。

Earlier, Taizong was outside [6], when he heard of the unrest he thus returned, hid in the mountains, sent people at night to tell the Marquis of Beixin An Tong, and the masses all responded. When Taizong arrived in the west of the city, the guard soldiers arrested and sent Shao.

先是，太宗在外，聞變乃還，潛于山中，使人夜告北新侯安同，眾皆響應。太宗至城西，衞士執送紹。

Hence the mother and son of Shao were bestowed death, and those subordinates, eunuchs and palace maids who acted as inside responders (which should refer to Tuoba Shao's inner circle of plotters) [7]. For those who had previously violated the chariot [8], the crowd of ministers in the southern streets of the capital cut them up alive [9] and ate them. Shao at this time was sixteen years old [10].

於是賜紹母子死，誅帳下閹官、宮人為內應者十數人，其先犯乘輿者，羣臣於城南都街生臠割而食之。紹時年十六。

Shao's mother was the younger sister of Empress Xianming [11] and was beautiful. At the beginning, when Taizu went to the Helan tribe, he saw her and was pleased, told Empress Xianming and asked to take her. The empress said:

"You should not. This surpassing beauty is not good. Moreover, she already has a husband."

Taizu secretly ordered people to kill her husband and took her. They begot Shao, and in the end he arrived at the great rebellion.

紹母即獻明皇后妹也，美而麗。初太祖如賀蘭部，見而悅之，告獻明后，請納焉，后曰：「不可，此過美不善，且已有夫。」太祖密令人殺其夫而納之，生紹，終致大逆焉。

Should be the Helan clan, as the Helan clan changed their name to He under the reforms of Emperor Xiaowen.

It was night when Tuoba Shao entered the palace, so the gates would have been closed. He violated a ban by climbing over them.

Should be Baba, as the Baba clan changed their clan name to Zhangsun under the reforms of Emperor Xiaowen.

Should be Tuoba, as the Tuoba imperial clan changed their clan name to Yuan under the reforms of Emperor Xiaowen.

Should again be Helan Hu.

Tuoba Si had earlier been forced to flee the capital in fear of Tuoba Gui after Tuoba Gui became angry at him.

I think that this should refer to the key assistants of Tuoba Shao in the rebellion, those behind Tuoba Gui's death.

This should be a reference to their roles in the death of Tuoba Gui.

I assume that these ministers were so angry at Tuoba Gui's death that they seized Tuoba Shao and the others before they could be properly executed/forced to commit suicide and cut them up alive. After doing so they would have been actually executed. Tuoba Si himself doesn't seem to have taken part in this.

By East Asian age reckoning; he was 14 or 15 years old by Western age reckoning.

Princess Helan, Tuoba Gui's mother, making Consort Helan his aunt.

[craftercat]

What are examples of Tuoba Gui’s crappy parenting?

In 409, Tuoba Gui killed his concubine Consort Liu, the mother of his eldest son Tuoba Si. Tuoba Gui had likely always intended for Tuoba Si to inherit the throne, however only planned to make him crown prince at 17.

He told Tuoba Si: "Formerly when Emperor Wu of Han was about to establish his son, he then killed his mother, to not cause the Lady to later join with the state’s government affairs, and cause the in-law family to make chaos. You will continue the government, for that reason I am far-reaching similar to Wu of Han, making plans for long long times."

The lesson of "if women are not killed, they will cause chaos in government affairs" is a terrible lesson for impressionable teenagers. Tuoba Si continued to mourn his mother and was unable to overcome his grief. Tuoba Gui became mad at him, perhaps viewing Tuoba Si as against him.

He called Tuoba Si to him. Tuoba Si wanted to go, but his attendants told him to flee, and Tuoba Si fled. The lesson that would have been learnt here would be: "Be a misogynist, or else..." In the end, Tuoba Si was forced to flee the capital in fear of his own father.

He wasn't a good parent to Tuoba Shao either. Tuoba Shao was unruly and violent, and would rob and strip people in the streets. Tuoba Gui punished him by hanging him upside down in a well until he almost died. This punishment a) did not work and probably made things worse, and b) almost killing your literal child in a brutal manner is not okay.

In 409, Tuoba Gui imprisoned Tuoba Shao's mother Consort Helan after she committed an offense, and planned to kill her, but had not finalised the decision that night. Consort Helan wrote to Tuoba Shao asking him to save her, which would later be taken as an incitement for rebellion. Tuoba Shao and his attendants entered the palace and killed Tuoba Gui.

[craftercat]

What do you know of the position of women in xianbei culture prior to the establishment of their chinese dynasties, and how did their position change after the establishment of these dynasties in particular Northern Wei but also the other xianbei led dynasties?

Before the creation of Northern Wei, Xianbei women seem to have had a better hand than Han women. The Dai state had a history of powerful women such as Princess Qi, and Tuoba Gui's mother helped him rise to power. As well, Northern Wei is said to have been the setting for the Ballad of Mulan. The equal-field system allowed women to own land, albeit less than men.

These things seem to indicate that Xianbei women had a higher status than Han women, but they were not considered equal to men, because it was an early medieval society. Not much changed for the common woman as far as I can tell, because the Northern Wei emperors didn't pass laws to restrict common women.

Northern Wei was more restrictive on elite women than the other Xianbei-led dynasties however. The other Xianbei-led dynasties had a fair share of powerful and influential women, such as Empress Kezuhun and Princess Qi. Northern Wei tried to avoid this as much as possible by instating "子贵母死".

I think Northern Wei rulers were more restrictive because they knew they only came to power because of the support of their maternal tribe. They therefore didn't want anyone else to come to power in the same way. As I've explained, I think that Tuoba Shao tried to use his maternal tribe, the Helans, to seize power. This would have been two incidents where people tried to gain power using maternal tribes, and they therefore tried to prevent maternal tribes becoming powerful.

In the end, the Northern Wei was able to produce two female regents. Empress Dowager Feng had no children and was therefore not targeted by "子贵母死", while the policy was abolished when Consort Hu had a son.

[craftercat]

The Custom of Killing the Mother of the Crown Prince in Northern Wei (1/2)

This is going to be a two part series. The first part will be looking at the custom of killing the mother of the crown prince, and the second part will look at the influence of Nurse Empress Dowagers.

So when did the custom start? What were its origins? There are two different statements in the records themselves:

Weishu volume 13: 魏故事，後宮產子將為儲貳，其母皆賜死。

"In Northern Wei there was a tradition, that when a son borne by the back palace's concubines was about to become crown prince, his mother would always be forced to commit suicide".

Nanqishu volume 57: 初，佛狸母是漢人，爲木末所殺，佛狸以乳母爲太后，自此以來，太子立，輙誅其母。

"Earlier, Buri (Tuoba Tao)'s mother was a Han woman, and she was killed by Mumo (Tuoba Si). Tuoba Tao used his wet nurse as Empress Dowager, and from then on, when a crown prince was established, his mother would always be executed."

So which is correct? Normally, the Weishu would take precedence, because it was written by the north, while the Nanqishu was written by southerners with limited information who had to rely on intelligence, and were the political enemies of Northern Wei. However, in this case, I don't think that either the Weishu or the Nanqishu is correct. I don't think that Tuoba Si killed Tuoba Tao's mother in the first place, let alone starting the tradition, which I will explain later on.

In terms of why I don't think the Weishu is correct, it's simply because Dai lacked the idea of clear father-son succession and a crown prince. While there were cases of father-son succession, this was not always the case. For example, Tuoba Yihuai essentially designated Tuoba Shiyijian as his successor, and the throne passed between several sons of Tuoba Liwei. And even when they did pass the throne to a son, the son was not always the eldest, such as when Tuoba Fu became emperor before Tuoba Yituo and Tuoba Yilu, and they were the emperor's nephews rather than sons.

With a system of succession where the heir was essentially chosen at will with no clear system as to who took precedent over who, how could there have been a system that revolved around having a clear heir and deciding him early? Especially when the throne often went to brothers or cousins, and not even the son in the first place. Furthermore, there is no record of any of the empresses of Dai having died due to this tradition. Princess Qi and Princess Wang were even able to have political influence as dowagers, especially Princess Qi.

Furthermore, why would Tuoba Gui need to explain to Tuoba Si the purpose behind the tradition if it existed since Dai:

Weishu volume 3: 初，帝母劉貴人賜死，太祖告帝曰：「昔漢武帝將立其子而殺其母，不令婦人後與國政，使外家為亂。汝當繼統，故吾遠同漢武，為長久之計。」

"Earlier, Tuoba Si's mother Honoured Lady Liu was forced to commit suicide, and Tuoba Gui told Tuoba Si: "In the past, Emperor Wu of Han was about to establish his son and killed his mother, in order to not let women later participate in state affairs, causing the consort kin to be chaotic. You will succeed me, thus I am far reaching like Wu of Han, making long term plans.""

There has been speculation that Tuoba Si invented this story to make himself look like the legitimate successor, but if this really was an old Dai tradition, then why couldn't Tuoba Si have claimed that Consort Liu died from the tradition? Why would he need to invent a whole conversation explaining why his mother was forced to commit suicide to make him the heir if it was already a tradition that this happened?

Then if both the Weishu and the Nanqishu are wrong, then when did the custom start? I think the most likely point would be Tuoba Gui killing Consort Liu to make Tuoba Si crown prince. I personally trust the records here: Tuoba Shao had killed his father, which already made him illegitimate. Tuoba Si, then, would be pacifying a rebellion rather than usurping the rightful heir in the minds of the nobility. As well, Tuoba Si never decided to restart the national history project of Tuoba Gui, which would seem like a logical thing to do if he wanted to twist the narrative to ensure his legitimacy.

Furthermore, of the two women before 456 who I think died from the tradition, both were of ethnic groups rival to the Xianbei. Consort Liu was the cousin of the Tiefu warlord Liu Xian. The Tiefu Xiongnu and the Tuoba Xianbei had long been rivals, and it's likely that Tuoba Gui wouldn't have wanted Tiefu Xiongnu influence on his heir. Consort Yujiulu, who I'll get to later, was Rouran. It's likely that the powerful ministers of Tuoba Jun's early reign didn't want a Rouran faction competing for power and used the death of Consort Liu as a pretext to force Consort Yujiulu to commit suicide.

I'm going to explain whether or not I think that Consort Du, Consort Helan and Consort Yujiulu died due to the tradition:

I don't think that Consort Du did actually die due to the tradition, despite what the Nanqishu says. First of all, Consort Du died in 420, and Tuoba Tao didn't become the crown prince until 422, which seems too big of a gap between events. Secondly, when Consort Liu was executed, Tuoba Si was extremely upset and even went into self-exile because he angered his father through his mourning, so it doesn't make sense for him to enforce the same trauma onto his son. Thirdly, Tuoba Si made Consort Du's brother Du Chao a major official in his home province, and he would receive and implement orders from the capital. The tradition was supposed to guard against consort kin becoming powerful, so why would Tuoba Si make Du Chao an official less than 4 years before Consort Du's death? Neither the Weishu or Songshu accuses Tuoba Si of killing her, which makes the Nanqishu claim seem suspect.

As for Consort Helan (or Helai), given that Consort Lin was killed according to the tradition the same year that Yuan Xun was born, it seems more plausible that she was killed. However, I don't think that this was a custom at this point in Northern Wei's history, and Consort Helan didn't have any close relatives who could become too powerful. She only had a distant uncle, Helan Mi, who was granted a title by Tuoba Tao, although he had no real power. Furthermore, Tuoba Tao employed his mother Consort Du's brother in an important position, so he didn't really seem to care about suppressing consort-kin. So I think it's more likely that Consort Helan died from some kind of childbirth issue or childbed infection.

I do find it plausible that Consort Yujiulu was killed due to the tradition by her political enemies. She died in 452, in a very strange sequence of important deaths. On 28 November 452, Baba Kehou and Tuoba Shoule engaged in political infighting and were forced to commit suicide. On 5 December, two of Tuoba Jun's uncles, Tuoba Jian and Tuoba Tan, both died on the same day. On 6 December, only a day after the deaths of her brothers-in-law and barely a week after the political struggle between Baba Kehou and Tuoba Shoule, Consort Yujiulu also died.

Like Consort Liu, Consort Yujiulu was also a part of a rival ethnic group, this time the Rouran. The Rouran had long been enemies of Northern Wei, and Tuoba Tao hated to the point that he changed their official name to a word meaning "wriggling", because he saw them as being closer to insects than people. So Rouran-Northern Wei tensions were high. Add to that she died barely a month after her son became emperor, and only a day after Tuoba Jun's uncles, and I find political execution the most likely scenario. One of the key factions at the time probably decided that they didn't want a Rouran faction in court, and they used Tuoba Gui's precedent to kill Consort Yujiulu, but it's unclear which one.

While Consort Yujiulu's death turned the killing of the crown prince's mother from a one-off into a tradition, it was mostly based around eliminating the influence of rival ethnic factions in court. It was in 456 when the custom found a new meaning:

Weishu volume 13: 太安二年，太后令依故事，令后具條記在南兄弟及引所結宗兄洪之，悉以付託。

"In the second year of Tai'an [456], Empress Dowager Chang ordered to follow the tradition, and ordered Consort Li to list her brothers in the south and her bonded brother Li Hongzhi to entrust to them."

Here, rather than Tuoba Jun carrying out the execution of his crown prince's mother, it is his wet-nurse, Empress Dowager Chang, who does so instead. This was the moment where the tradition became about female rivalries rather than suppressing factions of rival ethnic consort-kin. This instance, and the two afterwards, would be carried out by other women.

Weishu volume 13: 皇興三年薨，上下莫不悼惜。

"[Consort Li] died in the third year of Huangxing [469], and above and below there was nobody who did not mourn her."

This Consort Li was the mother of Yuan Hong and concubine of Tuoba Hong, but her cause of death is not stated. But I do think that she died due to the tradition. She died in 469, the same year that Yuan Hong became crown prince, and she was still young at the time, probably in her early twenties. Given that she was widely mourned, and she was noted for her virtuous character, she was probably not executed for a crime.

As well, although she had given up power, Empress Dowager Feng was still ambitious, and this Consort Li had a powerful family. In fact, even with Consort Li dead, Empress Dowager Feng feared her family to the point that she had their followers executed. She personally raised Yuan Hong and ensured that he never found out who his birth mother was, which showed how much she feared the power of Consort Li's family. So I think it's likely that Empress Dowager Feng followed the precedent of Empress Dowager Chang and forced Consort Li to commit suicide.

Weishu volume 13: 以恂將為儲貳，太和七年后依舊制薨。高祖仁恕，不欲襲前事，而禀文明太后意，故不果行。

"Because Yuan Xun would one day be crown prince, in the seventh year of Taihe [483], Consort Lin died according to the old tradition. Yuan Hong was benevolent and did not want to follow the old tradition, yet he followed Empress Dowager Feng's wishes, and thus he did not implement [his desire to get rid of the tradition]."

This shows that it was the empress dowagers, rather than the emperors, who were deciding the fate of these consorts. Empress Dowager Feng wanted to eliminate a potential rival, Consort Lin, and personally raise Yuan Xun in order to better control him. Even though Yuan Hong didn't want to follow through, he followed the will of Empress Dowager Feng, who had a lot of power at the time.

Ultimately, the tradition was abolished by Yuan Ke, which had several reasons behind it:

Weishu volume 13: 而椒掖之中，以國舊制，相與祈祝，皆願生諸王、公主，不願生太子。

"Of the concubines, because of the tradition, they would all pray together, wanting to give birth to princes who were not the crown prince, or princesses, and did not want to give birth to the crown prince."

After four generations of the mother of the crown prince (or emperor, because Tuoba Jun never got to be crown prince) being forced to commit suicide, by the time of Yuan Ke, none of the concubines wanted to have the crown prince. In fact, some would even have abortions to avoid having the crown prince:

及肅宗在孕，同列猶以故事相恐，勸為諸計。

"When Consort Hu was pregnant with Yuan Xu, the concubines were all afraid because of the tradition, and they advised her with various plans."

Yuan Xu became crown prince at a young age, but Consort Hu was not executed, which essentially ended the tradition. By this point, Yuan Ke probably blamed his lack of an heir in his late 20s to be on the concubines' fear of having a crown prince, and at this point, Gao Zhao was powerful, which showed he didn't really care about the issue of consort-kin.

先是，世宗頻喪皇子，自以春秋長矣，深加慎護。為擇乳保，皆取良家宜子者。養於別宮，皇后及充華嬪皆莫得而撫視焉。

"Earlier, Yuan Ke often lost sons, and because he was now older, he was very cautious and protective. He entrusted Yuan Ke to a wet-nurse and nanny, both taken from good families and appropriate for raising children. Yuan Xu was raised in a separate palace, and Empress Gao and Consort Hu were both not allowed to see him."

The system of raising a child with another woman was common in the Northern Wei dynasty, but it seems to have come from different origins. Tuoba Si separated Tuoba Tao from his mother likely because she was under house arrest, Tuoba Tao likely had Empress Dowager Chang raise Tuoba Jun because he thought that Rouran were not suitable for raising children, Empress Dowager Feng raised Yuan Hong to ensure that he was influenced by her and not Consort Li, and now Yuan Ke was appointing a wet-nurse and nanny to raise Yuan Xu because he thought Yuan Ke would be more likely to survive.

Part of the reason was because Empress Gao and Gao Zhao were suspected to be behind the death of Yuan Ke's first son with Empress Yu, and he therefore wanted to restrict their access to the baby. Yuan Ke could have also spared Consort Hu because he thought that she could act as a counterbalance to the extreme power that the Gao clan and Gao Zhao held.

Thus ended the system of the crown prince's mother being forced to commit suicide. In Part 2, I will be discussing the Nurse Empress Dowagers.

[incorrectmedievalchina]

Tuoba Shao: Self care is actually getting into fights with randoms in dark alleys.

Tuoba Si: No, self care is stuff like taking a bubble bath, or putting on a lot of makeup if you like it, or taking a nice warm nap!

Tuoba Gui: Self care is the burning heat when rage washes over you!! Self care is when you feel the bones crack under your powerful fists!! Self care is the fear in your enemies’ eyes!!!

[craftercat]

New statistic of the week: Northern and Southern dynasties emperors by the regularity of their ascension and death (only those officially emperors, so no Gao Huan or Yuwen Tai)

Ascension by regularity

Founding emperors:

Tuoba Gui

Gao Yang

Yuwen Jue

Liu Yu (Emperor Wu)

Xiao Daocheng

Xiao Yan

Chen Baxian

Usurpers of someone with better succession rights:

Gao Yan

Liu Jun (though Liu Shao's patricide would invalidate him)

Liu Yu (Emperor Ming)

Xiao Luan

Chen Xu

Placed on the throne by someone else:

Tuoba Yu

Yuan Ziyou

The other Gao Huan and Erzhu puppets

Yuan Xiu

Yuan Shanjian

Yuan Baoju

Yuan Qin

Yuan Kuo

Yuwen Yu

Yuwen Yong

Liu Yilong

Liu Zhun

Xiao Baorong

Xiao Gang

Xiao Fangzhi

Superior succession claim, but a troubled actual ascension:

Tuoba Si (though he never formally became crown prince, he did appear to be Tuoba Gui's intended heir)

Tuoba Jun (because of Zong Ai)

Chen Qian (selected heir by Chen Baxian, but there was the thing with Chen Chang)

Chen Shubao (because of the assassination attempt by his brother)

Proper heir with a normal ascension:

Tuoba Tao

Tuoba Hong

Yuan Hong

Yuan Ke (the crown prince when he ascended, despite the whole Yuan Xun affair)

Yuan Xu

Gao Yin

Gao Zhan (was selected heir by Gao Yan; unlike Chen Chang, Gao Bainian was too young to actually make a claim to throne)

Gao Wei

Liu Yifu

Liu Ziye

Liu Yu (Emperor Houfei)

Xiao Ze

Xiao Zhaoye

Xiao Baojuan

Chen Bozong

Deaths of the emperors by regularity

Murdered

Tuoba Gui

Tuoba Tao

Tuoba Hong

Yuan Xu

Yuan Ziyou

The Gao and Erzhu puppets

Yuan Xiu

Yuan Shanjian

Yuan Qin

Yuan Kuo

Gao Yin

Gao Wei

Yuwen Jue

Yuwen Yu

Yuwen Chan

Liu Yifu

Liu Yilong

Liu Ziye

Liu Yu (Emperor Houfei)

Liu Zhun

Xiao Zhaoye

Xiao Baojuan

Xiao Baorong

Xiao Gang

Xiao Yi

Xiao Fangzhi

Natural causes (little more is known or can be inferred)

Tuoba Jun

Yuan Ke

Yuan Baoju

Yuwen Yong

Yuwen Yun

Liu Yu (Emperor Wu)

Liu Jun

Liu Yu (Emperor Ming)

Xiao Daocheng

Xiao Ze

Xiao Luan

Chen Baxian

Chen Qian

Chen Xu

Chen Shubao

Exhaustion + elixir poisoning

Tuoba Si (he fell in 422 from cold food powder ingestion; his personal supervision of the southern campaign seems to have worsened his condition)

Yuan Hong (he was noted to be involved in alchemy; and he was also noted to have gone to court to handle state affairs regardless of the weather)

Unknown

Xiao Yan (either murdered or natural; he was 85, so it's hard to tell)

[craftercat]

What prophecy was Tuoba Gui attempting to fulfill according to the Songshu?

Here:

開暴虐好殺，民不堪命。先是，有神巫誡開當有暴禍，唯誅清河殺萬民，乃可以免。開乃滅清河一郡，常手自殺人，欲令其數滿萬。或乘小輦，手自執劍擊檐輦人腦，一人死，一人代，每一行，死者數十。夜恒變易寢處，人莫得知，唯愛妾名萬人知其處。萬人與開子清河王私通，慮事覺，欲殺開，令萬人為內應。夜伺開獨處，殺之。開臨死，曰：「清河、萬人之言，乃汝等也。」是歲，安帝義熙五年。開次子齊王嗣字木末，執清河王，對之號哭，曰：「人生所重者父，云何反逆。」逼令自殺。嗣代立，諡開道武皇帝。

Kai (the name the Songshu uses to refer to Tuoba Gui, I think it's a mistake in transcription) was tyrannical and fond of killing, and his people could not bear to live under him. Earlier, there were mysterious sorcerers who warned Kai there would be a violent disaster, and only be executing Qinghe and Wanmin would this thus be able to be avoided. Kai thus destroyed the commandery of Qinghe, often killing people personally, wishing for this number to fill 10,000. Or when he was transported by carriage, he would personally hold a sword to attack the people bordering it, and when one person was killed, another would replace them. On one journey, several tens of people would die.

At night he constantly changed his sleeping place, which others did not know, and only his beloved concubine Wanren knew where he slept. Wanren and Kai's son, the Prince of Qinghe, had a secret affair, and they worried the matter would be realised, so the prince desired to kill Kai, using Wanren as an internal assistant. At night they attended Kai alone, and killed him. When Kai was facing death, he said: "The words of Qinghe and Wanren was you two." This year was the fifth year of Yixi of Emperor An.

Kai's second son, the Prince of Qi, Si, who had the style name Mumo, arrested the Prince of Qinghe and wailed at him, saying: "One's father is the most important person in one's life, how could you rebel against him?" And commanded him to commit suicide. Si replaced him, honouring Kai as Emperor Daowu.

I would take this account with a grain of salt. The Songshu was compiled by the political rivals of the Northern Wei dynasty, and they therefore obviously had an agenda when writing this. The Weishu does not mention this affair and attributes the trigger for Tuoba Shao killing Tuoba Gui to something else. The Songshu records Tuoba Si as Tuoba Gui's second son, while the Weishu clearly describes him as Tuoba Gui's eldest son and preferred heir. Which makes it difficult to trust the Songshu's account of Northern Wei history. The Zizhi Tongjian uses the Weishu version of Tuoba Gui's later years rather than the Songshu version, presumably seeing it as more reliable, especially as it was writing from a southern perspective.

[craftercat]

How did intermarriage with other noble families and clans strengthen or weaken the Northern Wei dynasty?

At first, the main clans that the Tuobas intermarried with were other Xianbei clans. Tuoba Shiyijian made a marriage alliance with the Murongs, and the Helans also became a clan frequently married into during this period. The alliance with the Helan clan was a great asset in Tuoba Gui's early rise to power before he defeated his Helan uncles in 391.

Tuoba Gui likely made Lady Murong empress not only because she was successful in casting a golden statue but also because she was the daughter of Murong Bao, and he had integrated many old Later Yan officials into his own government. He also took the daughter of the Tiefu's Liu Juan as his concubine, and took his aunt from the Helan clan as his own, though that was also about her beauty. Had he purely wanted a political alliance he wouldn't have chosen his married aunt for it.

It is mentioned that Consort Du (or Duguhun) became Tuoba Si's concubine because she was from a noble family. The Book of Southern Qi asserts that she was Han, but the book also makes several basic errors in its recording of Northern Wei history so is not reliable. The Duguhun clan shortened their name to Du under Xiaowen's reforms, so it is impossible to know what her actual ethnicity was.

The marriage of Tuoba Si and Princess Xiping was a standard alliance between states, though there was genuine affection in the marriage. Tuoba Dao likely married Empress Helian for political reasons, as he never had any children with her and there is no record of him having favoured her.

Tuoba Huang's mother was either from the Helan or Helai clan. The Helan clan had lost a lot of influence after Tuoba Gui executed Helan Digan and Tuoba Si defeated Tuoba Shao, as the Helans had backed Tuoba Shao's coup attempt. The Helai clan didn't seem to have much of an influence in Northern Wei.

Tuoba Jun's Consort Li had been taken captive in Tuoba Dao's 450-1 southern expedition during the part where he massacred many civilians in six province. So her clan did not have much power.

Tuoba Hong's Consort Li's clan had more power. In fact, Empress Dowager Feng felt threatened by this clan's power and she therefore had the clan exterminated.

Despite the policy of killing the crown prince's mother, there would be several important consort kin in Northern Wei. Consort Du's brother Du Chao had some prominence in Tuoba Dao's reign, and Empress Dowager Feng and Consort Li's relatives also had power.