#transphobic gay people are honestly worse than cis het transphobes

[echo-stimmingrose]

Slight rant/ted talk

Trans People are People Too

So this person on tik tok responded to one of my comments, saying "they/them pronouns wtf y'all are still on that?"

One thing to note: I did not mention my pronouns in my comment nor are they in my name. This person had to have gone onto my profile, saw my pronouns and then decided that they needed to make a comment about it.

A ton of people responded to their comment defending me and other gender non-conforming people.

This person then went on to make a comment about what gentiles I have. 1, they have no way of knowing. 2, that's super fucking creepy especially considering i am a minor.

Many people called them creepy and they said, "it's not creepy, every woman has one" which is just incredibly false. Also how tf would they know what genitalia I have?

They continued to respond to other people under my comment while actively ignoring all of my comments, especially the one where I stated that I was a minor and it doesn't really matter whats in my pants.

The worst part of this though was their most recent comments. They said that "people like her make all the gays look bad"

They then revealed that they are gay/a member of the LGBTQ+ community.

To be honest I wasn't upset at first. I'm used to cis het people being ignorant bigots towards minorities. Especially when they have the cover of the internet to shield them. But a member of my own community? Not gonna lie that hurt a little bit.

I know it's just a stranger on the internet but if our own community can't stick together what hope do we have?

I live in the US and frankly it's scary right now. All of these bills and people in power who would rather focus on getting rid of the gays then helping the kids being shot I'm schools. It's so sad.

And to all the people telling people like me who aren't happy with our country "just move then" it is not as easy as you are making it sound. People can't just up and move across seas or across the continent.

I know they would like that though. If everyone who dares to be different would just leave and stop complaining about our rights being stripped from us.

I'm being told by my grandfather that it's not actually that bad. Maybe not for him, he's a cis het white man who only watches Fox News. I commented on one of his bigoted transphobic posts on Facebook and he blocked me and refused to respond to any of my messages. He then called my mom a bitch when she got pissed at him.

We're back on good terms now thankfully. He still has some effed up opinions on LGBTQ+ people, which is hard not just for me but my little sibling as well.

This is the same man who used to tell me to stand up for my country and the things that I believe in. I guess that only applies to things he agrees with.

Our community is being told to stop being so loud about our rights and maybe people would like us more. Imagine if we talked to women in the 1920s and informed them that we are still fighting for equal rights even 100 years later.

I don't care if things are "better now." Better doesn't mean good or safe. People are still being killed for this. We are moving backwards instead of forward. Don't they know history is doomed to repeat itself? Especially if they refuse to make changes.

I informed my uncle of the new bill in Florida about how trans kids are being ripped away from their families just because their families support them. He said "yeah that'll get fought. It won't stay for long."

But he also said that this bill would never get passed. I love my uncle and he means we'll but he still has a lot more faith in our country than I do. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. But it's also leaving him ignorant to a lot of the things that are going on.

Even if that bill doesn't stay "for long" as he says it's still a problem now. People are fleeing Florida and parents have already lost kids to this fucked up system. That's going to cause irreversible trauma on not just the parents but kids as well.

My uncle also says the biggest problem with our country right now is our economy. When I informed him I frankly didn't care about the economy as much as other problems, he laughed. "You're gonna care when you can't pay for anything to live"

The way things are going, by the time I am paying on my own to live I won't have the rights to do so.

Since before I came out I have always wanted to attend a pride parade as I've never been to one. Several months ago my mom and I talked about attending one during pride month. But now I don't want to, the thought honestly scares me.

I live in a small town in a red state. I hate going out in public because of the people in this town. I ate the way they look at me and my friends as if we don't belong.

My heart goes out to my LGBTQ+ siblings. Things are fucking scary right now. Please don't discriminate against your own community or else we don't have any hope of going anywhere.

Happy Pride Month I Guess

[sneakyneighboururchin]

Genuinely asking here bc maybe I've missed/forgotten some stuff but... when homo- and transphobic stuff is said in DA, it's addressed in game as being bad, isn't it? Like Dorian's first personal quest is about his dad acknowleding his homophobia and apologizing to Dorian. And with Krem, Krem and Bull both correct the Inquisitor pretty sternly if you misgender him, and Bull explains how gender identity is respected under the Qun. Not trying to fight you on this, nor do I think DA is by any means perfect, I just don't recall seeing homophobia or transphobia that isn't quickly shut down by the player or other characters. Don't feel pressured to answer tho, I know it's not your job to pull receipts for every shitty thing in a video game lol

Well first off thanks for being so polite and nice in this message, I appreciate it. I'm gonna try and cover the stuff that I've seen myself and have had pointed out to me by other people but keep in mind that I'm not trans, most of what I'll say here on the transphobia issue is me parroting other trans fans who've said this sort of thing before. I am gay though, so I guess we're clear on that front. It's also been a while since i played any of the games so if i get stuff wrong, I'm sorry. This is gonna be long so sorry for that in advance.

So homophobia and transphobia in our world. Why is it a thing? A combination of humanity hating and fearing what it doesn't understand (which Dragon Age also has) and religion, specifically in my experience Christianity (which Dragon Age does not have). Yes the Chantry and Andrastianism is heavily based off of Christianity and Catholicism but it doesn't have any of the bullshit about sexuality and gender that Christianity does. Neither in it's holy texts or it's teachings. The in universe writing about sexuality, a codex by Brother Genitivi, is also kinda homophobic and doesn't explain why this is a thing in Thedas at all. Queer relations and relationships are aparently viewed by most of Southern Thedas as 'peculiar' but no explanation is given as to why. Now I'm gonna go into specific instances. 

First off, let's look at some of the stuff you've mentioned. Dorian and his dad. Yeah that whole situation hit me pretty close to home as a queer person who's pretty much accepted at this point that my dad will never accept who I am and my mother died still not having accepted me. What Halward did is definitely portrayed as a bad thing, that is correct. The narrative kind of subtly pushing the reconciliation being the good option is a bit iffy. What Halward tried to do to Dorian is straight up abuse and I really don't like plotlines that push making nice with the abuser and forgiving them as a good resolution. This is kind of more personal feelings than straight from the script fact but I wanted to say it anyway. 

Second issue: Krem's treatment. So many trans people have talked about this before me, if you want some more in depth analysis of this you should go check out some of their stuff, it won't be hard to find. The basics though: Krem is voiced by a cis woman. This immediately sets a shitty precedent on the side of the devs lending proof to the theory that they don't care about uplifting trans people, just making money off them. Krem should have been voiced by a trans actor. In the actual conversation with Iron Bull you get the opportunity to be extremely transphobic. And if you do this you get told off, and that's kind of it. The fact that your character even has the option to do that is a) gross from an out of character writing perspective, and b) makes no sense in character. Why would your character have these views? There is no in lore reason for any of the potential groups your character comes from to be transphobic. Also, and this is just my opinion, but if you're transphobic to Krem (even though it makes no sense in universe) the Iron Bull's reaction shouldn't be a bit of disapproval, he should send you through the fucking wall. Seems more in character. Also, gender roles under the Qun also have a lot of potential to be transphobic, they are by no means an improvement on ours imo. Under the Qun your gender is essentially decided by your role. So if you're a fighter you're male. If you care for children you're female. Not only is that pretty hella sexist and reliant on our dumb ideas of gender roles (that again aren't supposed to be a thing in Thedas) it also has potential to be hell for trans people. Yes it would work for someone like Krem, but for someone who was AMAB and good at fighting but they were a woman? Being shoved into male gender roles and treated as a man would not be good. If the writer's intent was to create a society with an entirely different concept of and approach to gender they've done it wrong because of how much of it is reliant on the audience's perception of gender which (going by general gaming demographics) is pretty cis and het normative. 

Now I'm gonna talk about the transphobia that doesn't get challenged. Sera makes a couple transphobic comments throughout the game I believe, the one I can remember in detail is in the Winter Palace when she says someone presenting a certain way isn't actually that. And without any further context the only way the audience can really interpret that is that the writers decided to take a cheap shot at someone cross dressing in a bad attempt at comedy. 

Sera's writing in general is super homophobic because she was written by a homophobe. I'm not gonna go into all of that in this cos this is already too long and I could write essays about it. Other people already have! But basically, she's the only out and out lesbian romance we have in the series, and her writing in that respect is really not good. 

So how about the other games? Well. In origins you can hire sex workers at a brothel. The 'special' on offer is a very masc presenting dwarf in a poorly fitting dress. This was a very transphobic attempt at humour. Zevran, much as I love him dearly, is a walking bisexual stereotype, made worse by feeding into the 'sexy Latine' stereotype on top of that, which isn't an in universe problem so much as it is proof that the writers are guilty of prejudices whether they know it or not. I suspect there's more instances in origins but I can't remember right now. 

In Dragon Age 2 Seneschal Bran has a relationship of some kind with a sex worker named Serendipity, a feminine presenting elf with a very deep voice. This is played as something that Bran should be ashamed of. At least I think so, it could be that he's ashamed of having a relationship with a sex worker. Not that far fetched considering Aveline's weaponisation of the word 'whore' against Isabela. But this is also something that doesn't make sense honestly. Why is sex work taboo in thedas? Christianity isn't around to make it so and Andrastianism doesn't have purity culture going except for their clergy ( which also is never explained why and makes no sense.) Additionally, Uncle Gamlen is super homophobic. Why? There is no reason culturally or religiously for him to be that way? Yes he's an asshole but why is he an asshole in that manner? And you don't even get to challenge him on it! It's passive dialogue that you trigger when walking into his house and you don't immediately get the option to fucking fight him about it? Why put it in then?! 

A good amount of this is off topic from the actual question so sorry about that but TLDR there's a lot of in universe homophobia and transphobia, most of it is not handled well in or out of universe. I do believe that they're trying to do better in this respect, inquisition was a step up from previous games it just wasn't enough of one. 

If you want more stuff like this go check out @dalishious cos they have a ton of very good meta on subjects related to this.

[cinder-valestera]

Personal Biz

I know that I deleted the posts and blocked the people (or they already blocked me), but it still kinda bugs me about the majority of the arguments they made.

A lot of the arguments seem to stem from the idea that asexual people are “passably straight”. This is an argument I’ve seen being made for bisexual people who are in a het relationship as well. The idea that if you’re in a hetero relationship, it completely erases the fact that you are bisexual or asexual and you can’t belong because you’ll have less trouble with the heterosexuals now that you’re passable.

Another argument I’ve seen is that you have to “experience transphobia or homophobia in order to be lgbt”. And...No? Last I checked, you had to either be either A) Not straight, B) Not Cisgendered, or C) A combo. Bi swings two ways and the ace just sits there and reads a book. Bi people are not straight, Ace people are not straight.

Argument 3, “You’ll never go through the trouble I’ll have if my parents/church finds out that I’m a trans ace. You’re being transphobic because you’re disregarding the struggles that trans people go through, you entitled cis.”

Firstly, let me make it clear about something. I never said ONCE that cis ace people will go through all the same problems that a trans ace will go through. This applies for het aces vs gay/lesbian aces. Not only will people be telling you guys that you’re sick or broken because you don’t experience sexual attraction, but you’ll be dealing with people who’re telling you that you’re going to hell for not being in a hetero relationship or that you’re a pervert because you want to go to the bathroom that fits your pronouns, and I’m praying that y’all, that people will stop harassing you and that you’ll be free to be as you are. I was not at all trying to disregard the issues of trans/gay/lesbian aces, I was just trying to stay in my lane because I am a cis ace whom, as far as I know, is heteroromantic. I did what I could to stay on the topic of asexual issues in general.

Secondly, you’re right. As a heteroromantic cis ace, I won’t go through the same kind of troubles as a trans or gay ace. I won’t be kicked out of my house for being in a homo relationship, or because I changed my gender. I won’t have to be told I’m going to hell because of those things either. I won’t have to deal with people telling me I can’t use the bathroom in public because they’re afraid for their children. I won’t have to deal with those issues and I understand that I’m privileged to not have to deal with that kind of burden.

However,

That doesn’t erase the problems I would still have to deal with/have already deal with as an asexual. My country thrives on selling sex, it is everywhere. There are countless ads bent on selling products by using conventionally attractive, half-dressed/naked people. Movies contain so many unnecessary sex scenes, or portray sex as the ultimate act of love. They want to drill it in your heads that if you’re in love with somebody, you need to sleep with them, otherwise y’all aren’t in a serious relationship. And OH Lordy, the consumption of porn. And then when you tell people that you don’t really like sex, or don’t experience sexual attraction to people, they look at you like there’s something wrong with you. “How could you not want sex?” they’d ask. People looking at you like you’re sick or something else is wrong with you. They interrogate you, trying to get down to the “real” reason you don’t want sex, despite how many times you’ve provided them with an answer. They keep trying to force sex down your throat, trying to make you have sex because they think that will fix your “problem”.

Just to clarify something, before I go into this part here. I know I’ve said I’m a closet asexual to my parents and my church, but I have tested the waters, before I even thought about mentioning the word “asexual” to anyone in my life outside this computer. You won’t believe how many times I’ve been told I’ll want sex eventually, once I find the right boyfriend. How many excuses I’ve had to come up with because I was sick of people interrogating me because “I don’t care for the sex or the idea of it” wasn’t enough for them. How many of the people from my church, my CHURCH, have laughed at me for not desiring a boyfriend, or sex, or children. As much as they want to talk about sex being an absolute no no, they’ll still think something is wrong with you if you don’t desire sex, having the holy ghost or not, because they have it in their heads that all humans want sex and refuse to accept when people don’t.

This next part...is extremely personal for me, but I feel it is rather relevant to this post. I’ve read several stories over the years, on tumblr, that fellow aces have shared. A lot of them recounted stories of having been forced into sexual situations by their partners, because said partner was being “denied” satisfaction. Aces being raped because their wishes were not being respected, because their sexuality was not being respected.

This was something I found very awful and appalling, when I first read it, but it never quite hit home for me until years later, because I didn’t know I was ace yet. Way back when I thought I was straight, I had a boyfriend (not my current boo, mind you), and I thought we had a pretty healthy relationship. It had already been established between us that I didn’t care for sex and he told me that he was fine with it. What I didn’t realize until much later was that 1) He lied to me, and 2) He didn’t really care. I don’t really want to get into it, but he basically wore me down until I gave him what he wanted. And I went along with it for 3 years, because I thought this was what I was supposed to do. I eventually broke it off with him because, not only did he not respect my wishes, in regards to sex, but he was possessive and clingy in general.

I can already tell that once I post this, I’m going to have somebody come in and say that I’m still being transphobic and homophobic because I’m “undermining” their issues and that cis asexuals can’t fathom the troubles of an ace that is trans or in a relationship with somebody of the same gender. And therefore we don’t belong in the lgbta community blah blah blah.

And this brings up another argument I noticed among the people who’ve messaged me. The ol’ reliable “I have it worse than you, so you need to shut up about your problems because you don’t KNOW suffering” argument.

These people are trying to  make LGBTA a competition. Who’s as far away from being straight and cis as possible? Who’s suffering the most? Honestly this kind of behavior is annoying to me. I think those who know me know that I abhor people shutting down others because “I have it worse than you.” Everyone has their different experiences and all of it is valid. What these people I’ve been arguing with have been doing is saying that because I’m cis ace, I haven’t and won’t experience any discrimination because I’m “passable” or halfway “normal”. Again, yes, I am cis. I will not have the same experiences with discrimination as a trans ace will, or an ace in a homoromantic relationship. That still doesn’t erase the fact that I’m still asexual and that people still look at me like there’s something wrong with me for not wanting sex, in a world that seems to be crazy for sex. It doesn’t get rid of the fact that people will try to force sex down my throat, because they think that will “fix” me.

Its because of this, that I have been trying not to say I’m discussing cis ace issues vs trans ace issues, or whatever. I’ve been trying to keep it on ace issues, because half of the messages I’ve been getting are  “aces don’t belong, the A stands for ‘allies’”. But I do need to address that YES even cis aces can face problems. None of it has to do with the fact that  we’re cis-gendered, BUT BECAUSE WE’RE STILL ASEXUAL. We’re still lgbta, we’re still not “normal” even if parts of us are and people want to discount us because we’re not lgbta enough, or because we don’t suffer enough.

[iceprinceofbelair]

Right, but here's the thing. Aces aren't an inherently oppressive community, unlike men or white people. Cishet aces, and those only, are another story because they're cishet and therefore inherently oppressive. But people who do not experience sexual attraction, as a whole, never created a system that oppressed people who do, and therefore generalizing that entire community as a Problematic one is kind of a shitty move.

No, you’re right about that. Ace people are not oppressing all non-ace people. But what they ARE doing is perpetuating homophobia and transphobia in what is a community-wide problem of trivialising the AIDS crisis. When a community of people perpetuates the oppression of another, it’s different from just one person doing it. By refusing to acknowledge that it’s a problem, we’ll never fix it and I’d honestly hate for the ace community to continue to be willfully ignorant of this issue because I want to feel at home here but, being trans, I just can’t.

I did my best to specify cis-het aces in my first post but even non cis het aces can be oppressive. Gay people can be biphobic and therefore gay aces (cis or not) can be biphobic. Cis people can be transphobic therefore cis aces can be transphobic. 

I think a lot of the problem here is that we’re viewing oppression as an “opposite” i.e. ace people are not oppressive because they don’t oppress all non-ace people. But that’s kind of like saying that gay people are not oppressive because they don’t oppress all non-gay people despite numerous instances of biphobia and transphobia from gay people. What I’m trying to say is that being a minority doesn’t mean you can’t be an oppressor, even within the same spectrum of oppression (ie. gender, race etc.)

And, again, I totally agree that generalising is an issue and in some cases I don’t think it helps. But, honestly, I think the much bigger problem here isn’t that people are calling out the ace community for being transphobic/homophobic etc but that the ace community are actually being this way in the first place. 

tl;dr: generalising a community for their oppression of minority groups will never be worse than actually oppressing minority groups and derailing the argument by getting into the “not all aces�� discourse is also a kinda shitty move.