#too fat for guys that like twinks/otters

[floraleevee]

Okay I just gotta say it to get it out of my system: I’m sick of how picky gay guys are and how fake the body positive movement is within gay male circles

[bitterkarella]

Identifying furries by their fursonas

Fox- this is the default fursona for the default furry, namely a twink with a blown out fucked to death asshole

Vixen- Girl fox referred to as a vixen is an egg, girl fox just referred to as a fox is an out trans woman

Kistune - the same as above but weeb flavor

he-wolf - a greasy guy who weighs 12 pounds soaking wet and wears a fedora. republican.

she-wolf - the butchest bull dyke you ever saw

coyote - manic depressive. always on something. the drug connection at any furry party

Cat- always a woman

black cat - could be any gender but always goth

kitten/kitty - a trans sex worker, has an only fans they really want you to know about.

bobcat - older dude. wants people to think he's ex-military

Jaguar - an older black guy. will probably have the word "black" in his fursona's name

lion - just a huge asshole

tiger - another asshole. old. wants you to believe he's ex military or ex-police, probably a member of the dorsai irregulars. major grill dad vibes

jackal - a huge asshole and a slut. white gay racist, probably transphobic

cougar - either a trans woman or a terf. there's no in between

Horse - white woman who identifies as 2 Spirit or a guy who wants to be stomped on

Pony - gay nazi

unicorn - either the absolute gayest dude you can be or a 9 year old girl. sometimes a late in life transition

Tanuki - latino

badger - either a huge lesbian or an old avuncular straight guy. possible sex pest

Raccoon - nature's greatest mistake. too normie to be furry, too furry to be normie. dilf.

bat - either a goth or a real annoying shit (some overlap). invader zim fanboy. doesn't drink alcohol but claims to act crazy on "sugar highs." definitely has dabbled in webcomics

cow - a woman. maternal. mom friend or mommy dom. milf. possibly trans femme

steer - a big strong fat rough trade gay guy

sheep - mom vibes

pretty much any farm animal - mom vibes

domestic pig - wild card. might be a wet and messy fetish thing tho or a trash eating thing. loves to be stinky. loves to talk about being stinky.

wild pig - trans masc

skunk - either a fat beardy guy who has a tumblr blog about animation squash & stretch or a stoner gal. very straight. the straightest. a kinsey 0. has strong feelings about what the fandom used to be like before there were all these kids in it.

rat - is a huge asshole as a front, probably likes talking cigars

lemur - autistic

sloth - 420 blaze it. will never finish any commissions

chakat - an older cishet man who thinks the fandom is too political & refers to "anime" as "japanimation"

sergel - nazi

citra - the biggest dipshit you've ever met

procyon - furry equivalent of the thomas jefferson miku binder pic. you should not be talking to this person, this is a literal child

weasel - a girl with cluster b personality disorders

ferret - a person who has at least one pet ferret, but probably many

mole - this person thinks they're in a beatrix potter story

guinea pig/chinchilla/jerboa/gerbil/any kind of fat rodent you can keep as a pet - the sweetest person you will ever meet

armadillo/pangolin/anteater/aardvark - smug, contrarian. "i just wanna be different"

mouse - vore fetishist, prey. sub.

hyena - vore fetishist, pred. probably trans masc

otter - a dommy twink, possible enby

bear - gay

panda - absolutely a white person pretending to be asian. probably running a gofund me scam with a suspicious story about how they're a professional nintendo gamer who injured their hand or something

bullfrog - a huge fat hairy straight guy

any other frog - inflation or rubber fetishist

axolotl/newt/salamander - genderfluid enby

rabbit - trad wife trans woman

squirrel - autistic and gay

deer - gay

gazelle - zootopia megafan

monkey - punk DIY artist type, definitely loves weed

ape - absolutely baffling. nothing this person does or says makes any sense. you will be left wondering whether you're speaking to a child, a person with severe mental issues, or someone who doesn't have english as a first language

elephant - mom friend

hippo - a fat fetishist or a transformation fetishist

rhino - an older cishet dude who wants to project a curmudgeonly yet approachable aura

kangaroo - definitely not an australian person. extremely focused kinkster, usually feet or inflation. more STDs than should be possible to carry

koala - an asian woman

virginia opossum - anarchist/communist punk trans man who makes zines and/or comics

australian possum - just here to have fun. wants everyone else to be having fun too. wacky funster. (sugar gliders and flying squirrels fall under this category)

any other marsupial - poser

monotremes - extreme poser, don't even bother

doberman- gay dude who tops from the bottom or a cop (there is some overlap)

german shepherd - a nazi or a cop (there is substantial overlap). definitely a furry raider. he will wear his cop uniform to con and after con will post videos pretending that someone was rude to him

afghan - arch femme

basset hound - racist

puppy - sub, probably an egg. extremely draining. cries a lot

all other dogs - just dudes being bros (gender neutral)

dragon - the furries of furries. like to talk about eating "sammiches" and "chocklit." probably an adult baby lifestyler. they will send DMs that just say "hi." they like to RP and when they contact you about a potential commission they are actually just trying to trick you into RP

griffin - the same as above but also a brony

snake - sissy hypno fetishist

turtle - an old man, probably southern. an ironic grandpa.

other scalies - furry in denial. either a child or an old person from CYD. the world's last something awful goons

any fursona with latino vibes - white

any fursona with asian vibes - latino

any fursona with native american vibes - eastern european

avian - girl who's not like other girls. hippie. vegan.

raven/crow - agender voidgoth

chicken - mom vibes

dinosaur - the absolute biggest nerd. probably has an actual degree in paleontology. definitely dresses like miss frizzle.

any invertebrate - not a real furry, their girlfriend just made them get a furaffinity account before they could get ass. either that or they've never even heard of furry, they just came up with the idea of anthropomorphics from first principles. a biology teacher or weirdo (there is some overlap)

amoeba - this is a troll

[powerpolyculeshowdown]

Wait why are you supporting that poll?? I thought your polls were over, am I mistaken?? Do you just wanna still be active on the account or did I miss something? /genq

Also why support that side of the argument? (Talking about the twink poll, where you agreed with the borderline rude person running the account 💀) Look up the definition of twink and twunk. There IS a word for larger people who are otherwise twinks, they’re called twunks. Don’t just lump them in with a separate label??? Use the word they already have lol

No, there cannot be ‘fat twinks’, those are twunks. Twunks are valid and we love them, please don’t erase the word :,) </3

hi!!!! ive been working on and just started round one for a second showdown in this account. that has been a thing! sorry you missed it i guess????

you said /genq but it came off as pretty agressive tbh so im not sure how to feel about that????

to adress the twink poll

1. The rules stated both twinks and twunks were allowed! your point that a twunk isnt a twink means nothing here :)

2. a lot of ppl dont think fat men can be hunks either, cause hunks are "strong not fat". so by your logic a twunk would NOT include fat people, actually! then you could say "oh there's the term otter" but thats for hairy men. now u have the fat hairless gay mlm who id w the label of twink but arent accepted under that, or under anything else apparently

3. if you were following the poll before it started, there was a conversation about fatphobia in he gay community, where op even said they would extend the poll to include otters, until one anon said that he, as a fat gay man, was happy to see people being so accepting of "fat twinks", so op decided to accept fat twinks.

4. out of all the characteristics that make someone a twink, why is being skinny so important? there isnt a fat equivalent (see point 2) so whats wrong w fat gay men who fit all the other criteria also wanting to use the label? why does that bother you?

5. the poll runner of @twinkpoll responding to rude people w rudeness does not make them rude. None of these ppl cared to speak up when the nominations were up. everyone actively involved at the time was aware and supportive of op's decision to include fat twinks. thats why guillermo got in. People nominated him a lot.

6. again, a twunk is Not a fat twink. The term for a fat twink does not exist. But even if you were right, it wouldnt mean anything because the rules always included twunks too. literally from when the nominations went live it included twunks and nobody cared until the fat guy got in

7. im fat!!!! i might not be a twink but i have other issues of certain labels leaving me out because of my weight!! thats plain fatphobia and ppl just want to believe it isnt because coming up 2 excuses makes them feel better!! if one fat person is happy w more ppl accepting fat mlm as twinks (like the anon in twink poll) i will be here to support them.

8. Why tf are u messaging me about this if ur not even aware enough of my blog to know i was running another poll? where did you come from?? if you're just here to accuse me of "supporting the wrong side" in a stupid fight that shouldnt be happening, see yourself out.

also dont be a coward if u wanna start shit w someone get off anon, if i get another anon message about this its going straight to the trash

[ruralbi]

You know what's really sad? I'm 31 I'm slowly entering the end of my twink years. But that's not the sad part, as I'm planning to do a graceful transition to a beautiful otter, probably around 40yo. On God I'll get proper hairy one day.

(aparté, as a younger man I used to bemoan the end of my twink years at like 23 but I was sorely mistaken. Now I realize every day as I stand next to regular degular men that I am..... still a fucking twink. Now distinguished by less MDMA and more face lines, but still very obviously different than the just some guys next to me.) (I call this the Wilson life stage) like idk I got older but the older guys I'm into got older as well so in comparison with them I'm still twinkish? Drug addicted club slut is the burgeoning stage of twink life and now I'm blossoming into a beautiful bitch who listens to eurodance at Sunday brunch. Before if I did a huge scene bc whoever I was dating didn't pay me enough attention it was bc I had too much coke, now it's because I'm just a melodramatic brat like that. And that's growth baby. Find out who you are and do it on purpose.)

Anyway the sad part is the abysmal bear prospects in my area.

There's the mason who calls me beautiful and loves to talk about what he would do to me if he were ten years younger, but I've become friends with his wife.

There's the farmer who asked me to go to the sauna with him but he's friends with my parents AND his son is my age. (Tbh I'm kinda convinced I fumbled that one and should've gone for it, but the SAUNA as a FIRST DATE??? I do need substance abuse for that one chief, at least do the bar bathroom so I can have a drink beforehand I beg you) I could've gotten railed in the normal very much not gay sauna with like the third grade history teacher and my coworker's mother wondering what the hell is that noise in the next room, what a miss. I still buy his milk, it's a small comfort to me. He pretends he never invited me to the sauna and jokes about women ay what can you do! with my dad.

(moment of silence for the builder bottom who ended up threatening my housemate (his coworker) and almost hit me when I intervened about it. A Chihuahua can still bite bitch, I hope I never see him again BUT he was hot and a proper bear)

Best prospect currently is a local radio announcer but he's possibly not fat enough idk I need to see him naked, ideally in a jockstrap... to really make up my mind. And unlike all the others he's not propositioned me already, so I'm doing the eyes with force of a thousand suns. My resolution is to invite him to the bar in two weeks and if he says yes I'll see what he does in the bathroom.

And yes the current obsession with older bears is because I'm still holding to my word to not fuck my toxic ex (who was a young bear, unbecoming of myself really).

I haven't been touched in SO long like I seriously need to hold hands while watching telly but I would settle for cocksucking at this stage. local radio host please call me.

I hold hope bc we had several conversations where I batted my eyelashes and he told me that he's old, poor and okay with trans people. I'm like bitch me too! We have so much in common, let me suck your dick about it.

[gayagendaofficial]

Wait, what’s gay lingo? Like, what does twink, bear, etc. mean?

I AM SO GLAD YOU ASKED!

Before I get into actually defining these terms, I’d like to write about a few things:

So this is probably in reference to this post I made. Not to explain the joke to death, but that’s exactly what I’m about to do. I wanted to make fun of how people who aren’t mlm think they know what mlm terms like “twink” and “bear” mean and how they blatantly use them incorrectly everywhere, because they think they’re funny (bc gay men are a joke, right? //sarcasm), or because it makes them look “woke”. It’s an idea I had for the longest time when I saw something a str8 woman wrote about Zac Efron being a twink, in the present. Like yes, Zac Efron was a twink, past tense, but he is absolutely not a twink anymore (if you can even call a str8 man a twink). And she also implied that being a twink is something you can’t outgrow, which is laughable, because it’s kind of a meme among gay men that being a twink is something you grow out of whether you like it or not.

This mostly seems to be a problem among cishet women, since cishet men tend to be too concerned with their “masculinity” to touch gay culture. But since this is tumblr and virtually none of you are cishet, a lot of the times I’ve seen people misuse these terms on this site were LGBT+ people who weren’t themselves mlm. In those cases, the reasons seem more that these people are just misinformed, and they use these terms because mlm use these terms, and we share a community. Part of it comes from the fact that wlw might see the terms “twink” and “bear” as analogous to “femme” and “butch” respectively, which is not true in the slightest (Butch and femme are their own complex thing. What they actually have in common with twink and bear is that few outside their communities actually know what they mean lol).  Another reason might be that other LGBT people see mlm using these terms sarcastically and think they’re being used in earnest; if an actual gay man calls a bodybuilder a twink, he’s probably being sarcastic, and also probably trying to insult him (which is a whole can of worms I’ll open up in a bit).

I’m gonna try to define what “twink”, “bear”, and a couple of other terms actually mean, as well as give a little bit of context to how they’re used and controversy surrounding these identities within gay spaces, partially based on my experience as a gay man and partially based on casual research. I’m just one gay man, and I’m not an expert in queer studies or anything, so take from that what you will. I hope this will be useful to mlm who are just discovering their identities and exploring their sexuality/gender, who are new to the community, and I also hope to inform our siblings elsewhere in the LGBT community. This info could also be useful to cishet allies, although please be mindful of your intentions in using these terms.

Anywho, lets get to the definitions:

A twink is a young, smooth, slim mlm. The definition here is generally seen as being pretty strict on those 3 criteria, although “twink” is sometimes used for older mlm who are skinny and don’t have much body hair. Those last two criteria are the most important, because there are other categories for mlm that fit one of the criteria; an otter is essentially twink + bodyhair, and there’s a whole host of other words for other body types.

The definition of “bear” is a little more flexible than “twink”, although it generally comes down to the inverses of those same 3 criteria. The most important of these is the bodyhair requirement; any definition you find of bear includes something about being hairy. Almost as important as bodyhair is body type, although “bear” covers a slightly larger range than twink in that regard. Usually, “bear” indicates that someone is large or plus-sized, although it can also sometimes be used to describe someone who is muscular in the sense that they are beefy (if you can see a 6 pack, he’s probably not a bear). It’s also sometimes associated with being slightly older, but that’s not nearly as important, and “bear” can refer to any age. The term “cub” refers to mlm with the same body type as a bear, but who are smooth and young.

Now, let’s get into some misconceptions/controversies surrounding these terms. The first of these is that twink and bear are the only two options, and that all mlm fall into one of these two categories, or that other terms are simply variations on those two main terms. This misconception is really only one held by people who aren’t mlm themselves (or are, but are only just learning the terminology). These terms are extremely specific, and the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of mlm don’t fit into either of these categories. And that’s ok! There are a ton of other words mlm use to describe themselves. I’ve already mentioned “otter” and “cub”; there’s also “jock”, which refers to muscular mlm; “wolf”, which also refers to muscular mlm, but specifically hairy ones (with a bit of overlap with the “beefier bears” I mentioned earlier); the relatively new term “twunk” which you may know from this video as “a combination twink and hunk”; and many many more. In addition, all of these categories are really just physical descriptions of your body, and don’t have any bearing on anything else. You don’t need to fit into any of them.

That being said, there are a number of stereotypes associated with these terms, and it is important to address them.

Our next misconception is one that’s as common among mlm as as it is among everyone else: that twinks are by definition fem, and bears are by definition masc. “Masc” and “fem”, short for masculine and feminine respectively, come with their own host of problems, and that is a can of worms that I am not going to open up right now. This post is long enough as it is. If you want the sparknotes version of the controversy surrounding the masc-fem dichotomy, it basically boils down to misogyny, transphobia, and internalized homophobia. But back to twinks and bears: I would like to assume that it’s obvious that your body type or bodyhair has absolutely no impact  on your personal presentation of gender. There are plenty of fem bears and masc twinks. But unfortunately, most people don’t seem to get this. And this super important, because the gendered way we think of these terms affects everything else I’ll be talking about in the remainder of this post.

My next point, which is really and observation based on my experience in the gay community, is that bear as a term seems to be much less… loaded. However, being a twink myself, there might be a gap in my personal experience, so any bears feel free to correct me. However, from what I’ve seen, “bear” isn’t really used as an insult in the way “twink” is. Which is a bit of a miracle, considering how prevalent fat-shaming is in the gay community. From what I’ve seen, bear isn’t a term that’s forced on you, it’s a term that bears choose for themselves, almost always in a positive way. It’s a term associated with body positivity, and bear communities seem to be much less toxic than the gay community as a whole. Even when it’s used to describe someone else, it’s always a neutral statement of fact. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it used as an insult, or even sarcastically. The worst I’ve seen of it is that it’s used as a porn category, which contributes to the fetishization of fat people; but then again, twink and jock are also porn categories, so it would be weird for bear not to be. This isn’t to suggest that bears are treated better than anyone else in the gay community, if anything they’re treated worse; just that the word “bear” itself has neutral to positive connotations. (Again, any bears correct me on this if you’ve seen it used negatively!)

Twink, on the other hand, is absolutely used as an insult, and frequently. And while this may sometimes be harmless, more often than not it’s really problematic. If you’re plus-sized and you use twink as an insult in the same vein that Nicki Minaj said “fuck the skinny bitches”, that’s completely fine. Twinks are seen as being desirable (if they behave a certain way; more on that later), so effectively it’s punching up instead of punching down. However, a good 95% of the time that “twink” is used as an insult, it really comes from one of the many stereotypes that all essentially boil down to the idea that twinks are fem. And the idea that being fem is inherently bad and insult worthy is, once again, rooted in misogyny, transphobia, and internalized homophobia. 

This association between twinks and femininity also has a lot of scary implications on the beauty standards twinks are held to. I’ve noticed that twinks fill a niche in the gay community that is similar to the role cis women are supposed to fill in western culture as large, and that we’re only seen as sexually valuable if we perform the same behaviors and meet the same beauty standards that are typically reserved for women. We’re bottoms by default, submissive both in and out of the bedroom (yes I actually am a sub bottom, but that’s beside the point). We’re supposed to maintain a completely smooth, hairless appearance; a shaved ass is the bare minimum of hygiene. I once met a guy on grindr who demanded that I be completely hairless everywhere beneath my eyelashes, and while that’s a bit extreme, he was by no means an outlier. Just today I talked to a guy who wanted me hairless between my neck and knees. We’re often seen as vapid and stupid, and infantilization of twinks is rampant (some guys put way too much emphasis on the young part of the definition). And, to cap it all off, there’s the racism! Who’d’a thunk that all forms of oppression are connected? (sarcasm). Twinks can of course be any race, but the ones you’ll see men on grindr going after the most are white or light-skinned Asian twinks. Combine that with stereotypes of Black, Latino, and Middle Eastern men as dominant and aggressive, and you have a whole slew of white supremacist ideas painted over with a thin coat of gay porn.  (mlm of color who’d like to add or correct me on anything, please do so!)

I’ll end this already long post with a comparatively brief discussion on who these terms apply to. Basically, if you’re an mlm and you fit the definition of “twink” or “bear”, congratulations! You’re a twink/bear! “Can bi men use these terms?” Of course! “What about trans men?” Are you attracted to men and male-aligned people? Then of course! That last one might be controversial to some cis gays, and to that I say fuck right off. However, it does get a bit muddier with trans women and transfem nonbinary people and the word twink. Trans women are absolutely not mlm, but many of them have been a part of mlm communities for a long time, often before they even realized they were trans, and some may be reluctant to give up the word twink (I haven’t seen this for bear, although again, lmk if you’ve seen evidence to the contrary). And on top of that, a lot of cis men looking to have sex with trans women conflate trans women and cis twinks. Because remember what I said about twinks filling the niche of women? It’s often a niche they share with trans women, except trans women have it even worse, because they are actually women. My two cents is, if a trans woman wants to refer to herself as a twink, she’s more than welcome to. Just don’t go around calling trans women “twinks” unless they specifically say you can; it’s a gendered term, you are misgendering them, and, once again, you can fuck right off. (trans women also please comment if you want!)

Well, anon, I bet you weren’t expecting a post this long. At least I hope y’all learned something! Be gay do crimes!

[batmanego]

comprehensive guide to gay man terminology

BEAR: these dudes are huge. they’re big and burly and rugged. classic lumberjack types. usually fully or mostly masculine. lots and lots and LOTS of hair. remember: no hair, it ain’t a bear.

OTTER: a bear, but slimmer/more toned. still hairy, though maybe not as much. tend towards more traditionally athletic builds. less lumberjack, more werewolf.

JOCK: active gay man. these guys usually don’t have much body hair, but they’re fucking ripped. it’s so scary. they’re ripped as all hell. they look like stereotypical bullies in teen movies.

SHOW QUEEN: one of the widest categories. this is any gay man that does a lot of flamboyant drag/listens to musicals. think your stereotypical rupaul’s contestant. they are not drag queens — drag queens often have much less dramatic looks (though the line can be blurred). show queens are all about performances. don’t trust white show queens though

CIRCUIT QUEEN: the masc equivalent of a show queen. find these muscular lads in converse, shorts, and tank tops. if they’re white, they have a spray tan. they also typically wax their bodies. think a california bro type.

CHUB: a fat guy! love these dudes. they’re chubby and that’s super cool. any age or level of body hair, just like a circuit queen. sometimes referred to as ‘fats’ in a derogatory way, but i will end the lives of those who call them that.

TWINK: usually slender men with little to no body hair. twinks are probably the most well known category of gay men, but none of you fucking know what a twink is. some ground rules: if he’s muscular, he’s not a twink. if he has body hair, not a twink. twinks are not inherently feminine or masculine.

PUP: a younger gay man who’s new and inexperienced in the gay community. they’re usually eager to please and naive and often manipulated. please be gentle with them for the love of god

CUB: like a bear, but still growing. a bear that’s not quite ripe yet.

GIPSTER: gay hipster. not much else to say about them.

WOLF: semi-hairy gay man. too slim to be an otter or bear, but too big and hairy to be a twink. an important component is being sort of mysterious, but hey. nobody knows anything on this bitch of an earth

MUSCLE DADDY: like a bear, but older, and really ripped. the unholy fusion of a jock and a bear.

TWUNK: a twink, but with a six pack.

FEM: a feminine gay man. not to be confused with femme, a term for a feminine lesbian.

MASC: a masculine gay man.

thats all and if i ever see one more of you motherfuckers calling james charles a twink i will slap your facial features off

[horrible-monstrosity]

post from like five weeks ago that i just got around to finishing now woot

oh man, I thought I had run out of salt to mine aside from heromaca, but just look at this fucking shit it's fuckig beautiful--

wait no actual first off, I want to complain about the fucking otter motif- we get it Ukuhara you made two pseudo-successful series with animal motifs, now you're being self-referential. fucking stop. There's nothing to the otter motif that can possibly actually add anything to the show- "uhh sometimes they hold hands ???" doesn't work because it's nowhere near the desperate clinginess implied in the trailers, and if that's how it's supposed to be it's an incredibly shallow motif, and it can't be the gay man thing because that's about hairy guys, not anime twinks. But becusae Penguindrum had a penguins and Yuribears had a bears and becueas meaningless callbacks are meaningful to retarded people, we have to have something so working backwards it's otters. My conficence in this production is though the roof

first off, there's the weird wait for it DOUBLE STANDARD with how people describe what they expect from this show versus how they describe Utena et al- with Utena it's about the porblems stemming from the magic evil society monster from forever ago, the good old patterwacky, how we're not saying the mens are responsible for all evil but we're saying hurr mens, how we're not saying women are the only victims that matter but every mention of male victims goes into some bizarre circular language avoiding ever actually assigning agency to any sort of a human cause while every mention of le female victims goe striaght to belbllbelbleblelbblbllbr but with these male characters it's suddenly, oh, it's about the expectations placed on men (reasonable enough), expectations to live up to muh toxic masculinity (no)... sentence ends. The expectations don't come from somewhere, they just... sentence ends. Not even society half the time. Because men can't be the victims of anything let alone a social anything, I guess. Definitely not from women. and of course there's some fucknaut beating off about "HRUUUUU BE AGNAISNTNT DUBE BRO CUTLURE ???" because why the fuck would a japanese director who writes deap n meeningful tresh care about your fucking misandric american derangement complex you fat unwed dangerhair rre-- Especially amazing how this *subtle/subconcious sort of leftist cancer is coming out of 4chan, but I guess you really can't expect people to be very reverse woke outside of, like, /pol/ (where they may be just a little bit too woke). fuck idk Reminds me of like 7-8 mins into this video where some shlubnut declares proposal expectations or some shit sexist... but does not say against whom. Because then they'd have to admit it's possible for things to be sexist against men, or a bad time for men because of their gender, and possibly because of the actions and expectations of a woman. Can't have that. So it's either sexist against women or it's just sexist against the air and nothing, I guess.

There's something about Iku being a communist edgelord and in some kind of commie cult, and about Penguindrum being a refutation of that... uh, somehow. I guess because it had something to do with a cult? Somehow?

There's something about Ikuhara and Hideaki Anno going on a gay spa trip, I don't fucking know- but interestingly, one anon's interpretation of the preview materials sounds entirely like the "hedgehog's dilemma" shit from Eva. And they did both work on that new Godzilla thing. Hmmmmm

And of course there's the convergence shit like "if it deals with The Stereotypes then it is a feminism even if it has ideological components that have nothing to do with anything feminism ever does or addresses". Can't have anything outside of the thing, obviously using the show's existence as validation for their own twisted and retarded viewpoints and so having to insist that is conforms entirely to said viewpoints while simultaneously not having the more odious elements of said viewpoints because we totally don't hate teh mens guys, we just like an anime that's about ~~sticking it to the virgin-whore complex~~ that totally exists while sucking off the male knight-beast complex most of the damn time except the knights are evil too and the one guy who's actually nice is a spineless wimp who's sexually assaulted by his sister all the damn time and should totally be happy about it FUC (srsly, there's an Utena fan site or forum thread or something I found once that talks about the virgin-whore thing in Utena with googly eyes and gooey lips but then suddenly mentions the show flipping it onto males and just... says it's "interesting" and leaves it at that... some fucking shit like that meh)

oh yeah, there's this guy

For a long damn while I've thought to myself that Ikuhara's works, while touted as feminist and certainly dealing with those feminist sorts of issues, aren't quite... so. They're certainly some kind of gynocentric, but with just a little bit more... sympathy for the male characters, responsibility placed on the females, and generally some sort of actual nuance. Maybe. Just a bit. Certainly more than basically every breakdown I've ever seen of his works has put forth up until this mofo. I guess the best thing I can say is his works seem to exist in some kind of limbo between the two... Utena seems like it's deconstructing the idea that the "roles" are some unique oppression to women or even fucking matter, including a backstory for Akio where his role as prince breaks him so badly (thanks to greedy peasants who, if I remember, are a mixed-gender crowd... where do they lie in the prince-princess-witch equation?) he basically fucking invents an evil role for himself where none apparently existed before. But then it ends like it was... not doing that, or something. In Yurikuma, I mostly saw people say shit like "this is what society makes lesbians do by being so mean to them!!" (lol remember when lesbeans got stoned and thrown off of roofs lollololol so oppress clearly the victims of anything etc etc), but there is just... no fucking society in that show outside of the cannibalistic sex offender bear lesbians and the Higurashi-tier paranoia-cult schoolgirl lesbians. The latter victimize themselves by coming up with ridiculous social mores to defend against the threat of the bears in their midst (entirely reasonable, but they sure found the most retarded possible way of doing it), while the former are cannibalistic sex offenders. NO ONE WAS THERE TO MAKE THEM THIS WAY. Hell, with the humans being called "yuri" and the bears being... well, bears, which is a gay guy thing, and the plot being about segregating two compatible but different halves of society where the more violent half can go "undercover" and "pass" within the less violent half in order to hunt them... it comes off more like the females are trying to political feminist themselves and build a wall to keep the males out. Which comes with the implication that men are cannibalistic sex offenders, but since the grils are being characterized to an absurd height of feminine toxicity as well and the show is about both sides learning to cool their tits it kind of works. Kind of. fuck idk The entire plotline with the teacher who let herself be waited on hand and foot by some guy (nice fucking meaningless reuse of the coffin motif from Utena, by the way- shit like this is why even if this was the most reverse woke anime ever it would still just be shit) and then when he simply got bored of her and politely moved on she lost her shit and immediately killed him, then remained bitter about it for the rest of her life and went on to assault teenage girls... that has got to be taking the piss. It's just gotta. If not Iku has his head up his ass to heights previously unimagined.

and then there's those converging lefttards in that thread going "he is wrong with his subjective interpretations of a vague show though!! he is wrong!!! reeeee" Uhhhh, there's like a bazillion types of feministsms so the show can't possibly be about critiquing it!! It can't just, like, pick a type, or pick out some commonalities (there sure are plenty for something so supposedly nebulous), and mull over that, it's unposstible!!

Finally I find this interesting... while his previous works had some kind of strange innocence about them despite the sexual shit, the first male-centric work he does outright has "lust is life!" as a tagline and the word "desire" worked into the title. I'm... not even implying anything with this, I just find it really kind of interesting. The title itself actually inspires more confidence than his last two works- the "zanmai" could mean "lust" or "desire" and is likely referring to the same thing as said tagline, and the "sara" could mean "dish" (as in "this place's signature dish", not a literal plate or something); lusting after food is often metaphorically used to mean lusting after someone sexually (gobble someone's cock, etc), so already it looks like there's something vaguely resembling a coherent symbolic framework rather than the random-words-based titles and plots of Yuribears and Penguindrum.

Honestly however this show turns out it's going to be a fucking disgusting beautiful delicious shitshow and I cannot fucking wait.

[fashiontrendin-blog]

Can Men Be Objectified? A Response to the “Twink” Controversy

https://fashion-trendin.com/can-men-be-objectified-a-response-to-the-twink-controversy/

Can Men Be Objectified? A Response to the “Twink” Controversy

Not since the dawn of the so-called “dadbod” has there been so much online discourse surrounding the male torso. When The New York Times published “Welcome to the Age of the Twink” by Nick Haramis earlier this month, it provoked a pretty strong reaction, ranging from derision from gay men who felt the term “twink” had been appropriated, to those who questioned the author’s assertion that a slender frame somehow defies traditional masculinity.

It’s not uncommon for straight people to go on safari in LGBTQ culture and come back with a souvenir, but what made this take especially lukewarm was the fact that Vulture writer Kyle Buchanan essentially wrote the same piece in June 2017. It almost goes without saying, too, that slender white guys have carried cultural and sexual currency in the west for centuries.

“Aside from the obvious – a straight twink can’t exist – the conflation of slimness and, for the most part, whiteness to success is problematic,” writes Dazed’s Dominic Cadogan, “not least because that is the way it has been for what feels like forever.”

Still, it’s relatively rare for the media to apply this kind of scrutiny to white male bodies in pop culture, an activity usually aimed at women. In fact, this kind of dissection often picks up speed the further you get from cisgender white men; black, queer and trans women, for example, seem to face exponential judgment and punishment compared to their majority counterparts. In a recent piece for Allure, writer Katelyn Burns described the constant societal policing of trans women’s looks as an “impossible balancing act.”

That isn’t to say cishet men in the public eye have been immune to increasingly unrealistic body standards. When Hugh Jackman first donned those adamantium claws to play Wolverine in 2000’s X-Men, he looked tough as hell, sure, but still kinda cuddly. Cut to more than a decade later, and his torso in The Wolverine and Days of Future Past was hulking and vascular, presumably all the better to make this immortal character seem invincible. That uber-muscular ideal — which writer Mark Simpson, the creator of the term “metrosexual,” named “spornosexual” — can be seen in the majority of leading men today (the internet still mourns the loss of Chris Pratt’s pre-Guardians of the Galaxy tummy), which is perhaps why the Tom Hollands and Timothée Chalamets of Hollywood are making such a stir.

Superheroes and their rippling physiques are a power fantasy, and so this kind of onscreen imagery only serves to further entrench the idea that men’s bodies are totems of power

Of course, showing a man’s bulging pectorals in an action movie isn’t quite the same as the camera lingering on a woman’s breasts or buttocks. Superheroes and their rippling physiques are a power fantasy, and so this kind of onscreen imagery only serves to further entrench the idea that men’s bodies are totems of power, even if the internet sets about making thirsty GIF-sets of Chris Hemsworth’s torso at the same time.

Can there ever be such a thing as equal-opportunity objectification, then, when traditional gender dynamics carry such a historic power imbalance? I asked that question to Man Repeller’s Deputy Editor, Haley Nahman.

“Some guy once told me that he thought the solution to neutralizing the male gaze was for women to simply objectify men,” she says. “It was an annoying comment for multiple reasons, not least of which was his implication that it was women’s responsibility to even the playing field. I told him that seemed like spreading the harm more than supplanting it. I’d always been put off by the idea that, to use a cheap example, women whooping at male strippers in Magic Mike somehow subverted the patriarchy. It never felt like that to me. After all, these men weren’t truly disempowered by the whooping … Most men will never truly understand the all-encompassing female experience of objectification.”

Alice is a social media professional, writer and DJ with a slightly different perspective on the female lens and how Magic Mike XXL, rippling flesh and all, can actually be read as an empowering feminist film. She points to the interiority granted to each beefcake character, and the way the narrative privileges women and their needs, as refreshing and necessary alternatives to what audiences have been conditioned to expect from media.

“The film writes a new blueprint for who a jacked-up male entertainer can be — these are emotionally literate gentle giants who vocally support each other’s dreams,” says Alice. “Magic Mike XXL depicts a feminist utopia which works for women and men. It celebrates women of color, fat women, queer women, older women. Utopian art gives us comfort and hope, allowing us to draw a path from our world to a better one.”

As might be said of any subculture, these tribes emerged at least partially out of an innate need for belonging and evolved over time into entire communities of their own

The fact that twinkhood is being so widely discussed could be seen as similarly encouraging — a new era wherein all forms are celebrated. After all, the gay community has proliferated seemingly inclusive terminology for all kinds of body types, such as bears and otters. As might be said of any subculture, these groups emerged at least partially out of an innate need for belonging and evolved over time into entire communities of their own. And yet, the most common kind of LGBTQ representation to be found in pop culture is still the conventionally handsome cisgender white man, evidently the form most palatable to mainstream audiences. It’s unlikely we’ll be seeing a New York Times article heralding the age of the bear any time soon.

“If we are going to make queer culture more diverse, we need to seriously interrogate the language and tribes we have built up over the years,” writes i-D’s André-Naquian Wheeler in a piece titled, “Why Can’t Black Men Be Twinks?” He points out that Jaden Smith is the only non-white person mentioned in Haramis’ original piece, despite there being a plethora of examples (he cites Pharrell as being “peak twink,” and I can’t say I disagree).

“Opening up twinkdom to black people also requires opening up the qualifiers,” Wheeler continues. “Because black men and white men have very different standard physical features. Twinks, bears, otters — what are these words actually describing? I don’t have the answer, and maybe none of us do, but it’s important we ask the question.”

When we ogle male bodies, and adopt and perpetuate new, seemingly arbitrary criteria for male desirability à la “the age of the twink,” are we really pushing the boundaries of traditional muscle-bound hyper-masculinity? Or simply enacting the same objectification that has oppressed women for so long?

It can only be a good thing that we are examining the complex issue of masculinity as it pertains to and shapes pop culture. But taking the pressure off men to be uber-muscular Men’s Health cover models, only to replace that with another unrealistic ideal, is not conducive to productive discourse. As Spencer Kornhaber of The Atlantic writes: “[M]aybe someday, men and women, straight and queer alike, might come to know how it feels to be more coherently discussed as people, rather than as meat.”

Philip Ellis is a freelance writer and journalist from the U.K. You can follow him on Twitter @Philip_Ellis

Feature photo by Taylor Hill/Getty Images.

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