#tongbi yuanhou

[mythologyfolklore]

I made more memes. :)

[inkyminx]

[ep2nd]

What are your lmk sexuality canon

Alright here we go-

Yall please don't kill me this is my own headcannons-

MK- Demiromantic

Mei- Bisexual

Macaque- Bisexual

Huntsman- Bisexual

DBK- Bisexual

Redson- Bisexual and Genderfluid (the genderfluid might be canon to LMK can't remember)

Wukong- Pan

Azure- Pan

Spider Queen- Omni

Tang- Gay and Aromantic

Syntax- Ace

Sandy- AroAce

Pigsy- Bi

Scorpion Queen- Lesbian

Peng- Non-binary (canon)

Yellowtusk- nothing (I just don't have any for him)

The Mayor- Queer

9HD- Queer

Big Spider- nothing

PIF- Straight Alley (is that what you call it???)

AND IF THE OTHER 2 CELESTIAL PRIMATES WERE HERE

Red-Horse Baboon- Demiromantic and Gay

Long-armed Gibbon- Pan

[artisticmoonfall]

This ship name is MonkeyBarrel cause a group of a monkey is a barrel. 

[digitaldoeslmk]

Tongbi Yuanhou (Through-Arms Gibbon), local butch Auntie, has everybody's birth charts memorized

[quitealotofsodapop]

Hi! I wanted to ask something.

Like, most of us knows there are 4 Spiritual Monkeys in the legend(book)... Do the Wukongs and theyr LEM's ever tought about looking for them? Cause mines did and It was chaos

Tongbi: Wait... why there are not other us, Chikao? *Sad precious sunshine noises*

Chikao: We are probably lucky in theyr universes to not having to ature theyr "bullduey"

*Wukong and Liu'er fighting in the most platonic way possible*

(If you are wandering who Tongbi and Chikao are, Chikao = Baboon and Tongi = Gibbon. And both are girls)

Love them and all the different versions people are coming up with! Bonus: the @journeytothewestresearch post about them!

I've been personally calling them "Babs" = Baboon (Chikao mahou, 赤尻馬猴) and "Gibs" = Gibbon (Tongbi yuanhou, 通臂猿猴) as a nickname! XD

My idea is that they are the older of the four *known* celestial primates, with the oldest celestial primate being the since-ascended Shen Monkey who raced for the Jade Emperor.

Tongbi/Gibs has a naturally stretchy body (think like Monkey D Luffy) and is very optimistic. Whilst, Chikao/Babs is more of a realist with the power of reading a person's thoughts/intentions (an interpretation I have for "Understands human affairs,").

My personal hc backstory for them is that;

Tongbi/Gibs was born/hatched along the Heavenly River, her species limbs stretching to allow them to climb, swim and dance between the clouds and astral waterways. She could be considered the "Fresh-Water Monkey" for this reason. Her egg had actually fallen to earth during the Great Flood when the fifth Heavenly Pillar broke, and was found by a tribe of proto-humans (of which Fuxi originated) that raised her as their own. She lived with them for many years before deciding to seek out others of her kind - where upon she met Chikao/Babs

Menawhile, Chikao/Babs was actually born into the Underworld amongst demonkind. Her fellow demons did not understand why she had hatched from a egg-shaped stone that sat undisturbed in the demon-capital city of Youdu for many millennia, but they accepted her as their colleague nonetheless. When Chikao/Babs came of age, she was trained to carry out the duties of a Psychopomp; to gather and bring deceased soul before Yama and the Ten Kings, the same duties as Ox-Head and Horse-Face. She could be considered the "Abyss Monkey" for her gloomy origin.

The two celestial monkeys meet by pure chance when Chikao/Babs herself nearly dies trying to collect the soul of a reluctant water demon. Tongbi/Gibs saved her, and it was love/fascination at first sight like Little Mermaid.

The two female monkeys are soulmates in a yin-yang like dynamic. One stern and aloof, the other silly and expressive. They began seeking out others of their kind almost immediately after meeting - failing until they found a certain little stone monkey being cared for by an old mentor.

I made a joke post a while back about these two finding little Sun Wukong early and raising him as their own, and now I can't stop thinking of it! The Netflix and Smash Legends SWKs are who I most imagine as having the two super-powered moms, but I could def see an AU of Lego SWK having moms. X3

Chikao and Tongbi def be cringing hard at how bad their son is fumbling expressing his feelings for Macaque, and for how bad Macaque is at confronting *his* feelings!

[journeytothewestresearch]

One question is if the six-eared macaque is a negative aspect of Sun Wukong's personality, that means that the other two mystical monkeys are also aspects of the personality except that unlike the Macaque, they are both positive aspects or simply part of Sun's personality. and the reason why they do not appear directly or are agonistic in jttw is because they do not go against the path of Buddhist enlightenment

Sorry if you don't understand, I don't speak English and I'm using a translator.

I've also speculated that the other two cestial primates are aspects of Sun Wukong's mind. An update to my Six Ears article reads:

I'm not really sure why the other two don't explicitly appear in the narrative. But I do know that, including Sun Wukong, the four celestial primates mirror the four kinds of monkeys and apes living on Flower-Fruit Mountain. As I write here, chapter one reads:

The Handsome Monkey King thus led a flock of gibbons [yuanhou, 猿猴], macaques [mihou, 獼猴], and horse-monkeys [mahou, 馬猴], some of whom were appointed by him as his officers and ministers (based on Wu & Yu, 2012, vol. 1, p. 106). 美猴王領一群猿猴、獼猴、馬猴等，分派了君臣佐使。

The gibbons are also called "long-armed gibbons" (tongbei yuanhou, 通背猿猴; lit: "(arms)-through-the-back gibbons"). [1] (This refers to the belief that the long, agile arms of the gibbon were somehow connected (i.e. tongbi, 通臂), passing through the back (i.e. tongbei, 通背) (Gulik, 1967, p. 92-93).) The horse-monkeys are also called "red-buttocked horse-monkeys" (chikao mahou, 赤尻馬猴). [2] These terms are important to remember.

Here is the list of the four celestial primates:

Stone-Monkey of Numinous Wisdom (Lingming shihou, 靈明石猴) - i.e. Sun Wukong

Red-Buttocked Horse-Monkey (Chikao mahou, 赤尻馬猴) - The exact same kind as that mentioned above.

Long-Armed Gibbon (Tongbi yuanhou, 通臂猿猴; lit: "Connected Arms Gibbon") - As mentioned above, tongbi (通臂) and tongbei (通背) refer to the ape's long arms.

Six-Eared Macaque (Liu'er mihou, 六耳獼猴)

The apes and monkeys of Flower-Fruit Mountain and the Four Celestial Primates both include Sun Wukong (i.e. the Stone Monkey), Red-Buttocked Horse-Monkeys (Chikao mahou), Long-Armed Gibbons (Tongbei and Tongbi), and Macaques (mihou), one of which has Six Ears (Liu'er). Therefore, the two groups are practically the same.

Based on this, a person might suggest that if one celestial primate (Sun Wukong) is born on Flower-Fruit mountain, then others can be, too. This opens the door to all four of the celestial primates having been born (or at least manifesting) there. And since Six-Ears is an aspect of Monkey's mind, the missing two celestial apes could be as well.

I should note that Wukong's Four Might Commanders are two long-armed (tongbei) gibbons and two red-buttocked horse-monkeys. Someone could suggest that two of them make up the missing celestial primates. But they are never shown to have great powers, just knowledge about the world outside of Flower-Fruit Mountain.

In the end, though, the missing celestial primates may not appear simply because they are not important to the overall narrative.

Notes:

1) Yu (Wu & Yu, 2012) incorrectly translates tongbei yuanhou (通背猿猴) as "bare back monkey" (vol. 1, p. 131).

2) Yu (Wu & Yu, 2012) incorrectly translates this as "baboon" (vol. 1, p. 106). The horse-monkey was a nickname for the macaques placed in horse stables to keep away sickness (refer to here).

Sources:

Gulik, R. H. (1967). The Gibbon in China: An Essay in Chinese Animal Lore. Leiden: E.J. Brill.

Wu, C., & Yu, A. C. (2012). The Journey to the West (Vols. 1-4) (Rev. ed.). Chicago, Illinois: University of Chicago Press.

[thejadetrios]

My take on the Long Armed Gibbon.

Searched abt the Four Primates,and I saw the name(Tongbi yuanhou)

I also think that if Macaque and Sun Wukong aren't on the side of heaven,then the Long Armed Gibbon and the Red Buttoxed Baboon/Monkey are. Also,there is the theory from RV Sketch on YT(I love their theories,its very interesting),and I like their take and theories abt these two primates that we barely even know.

Like,if the theory is correct,then,um,Tongbi is a blood clone that was created by Sun Wukong for unknown reasons,and since we don't see Tongbi being with Sun Wukong or any mentions of them,I figured maybe she's like Macaque,with abandonment issues or conflict with Sun Wukong in a personal way.

Not sure if I did the fur color right,cus its either like a light blond or a light paige...

But that's just my take

Also shoutout to RV Sketch on YouTube. Love your ideas

[journeytothewestresearch]

Here are some updates:

One passage suggest ALL four celestial primates are present on the Mountain of Flowers and Fruit in Sun’s youth:

The Handsome Monkey King thus led a flock of gibbons [yuanhou, 猿猴], macaques [mihou, 獼猴], and horse monkeys [mahou, 馬猴], some of whom were appointed by him as his officers and ministers (Wu & Yu, 2012, vol. 1, p. 106).

美猴王領一群猿猴、獼猴、馬猴等，分派了君臣佐使。

There’s the Monkey King (Stone), gibbons (Tongbi/bei), macaques (Six Ears), and horse monkeys (Red-Buttocked).

Also, a reader left a comment on my blog suggesting that the four magical primates are not part of the 10 categories of life—as stated by the Buddha—”[b]ecause Wukong erased their names from the book of Life and Death”. This refers to chapter three when Sun inks out his name and those of all other primates when his immortal soul is mistakenly summoned to hell. It’s important to remember that Monkey has his own book, so the others might have had books too.

Thanks to this dictionary, I learned that one late-Qing source, New Dialect (Xinfangyan, 新方言, early-20th-c.), associates “horse monkey” (mahou, 馬猴) with various iterations of Chinese terms for macaque monkeys, further supporting the theory connecting them to horse stables:

Muhou: muhou; muhou: mihou – these are called mahou, the sound of each one changing [in turn].

沐猴：母猴；母猴：彌猴，令人謂之馬猴，皆一音之轉。(the original doesn’t have punctuation)

This article notes muhou (母猴; lit: “mother monkey”) is not referring to a female primate but the name of a macaque. The Annotation of the Shuowen jiezi (Shuowen jiezi zhu, 說文解字注, 1815) explains:

Muhou is the name of the beast, not the female. Muhou and mihou are changes in dialect. The characters are wrong.

母猴乃此兽名，非谓牝者。沐猴、[彌]猴皆语之转，字之讹也。

I’m still looking for older references to the horse monkey, but it looks like its a macaque and not a baboon. 

Sketch Request for @sketching-shark

I have a lot to say about this one. I'm putting it all below the cut:

Let me start by saying this is the last of the three requests I got before I updated my rules, and I am not drawing a background like this for the others. Ya'll already know how I feel about backgrounds.

And sorry this took so long but I'll explain why below

-

Sketching-shark...buddy...friend...my dude, why you gotta put me back on my bullshit???

"idk if this is something you'd be interested in imagining/portraying-"

DUDE, DO YOU KNOW THE SELF-RESTRAINT I PLACED ON MYSELF TO MAKE THE SHADOW OF THE KING AU CANON COMPLIANT????

I WAS BARELY HOLDING BACK, I HAVE SO MANY CONCEPTS IN MY FOLDERS I WASN'T LETTING MYSELF USE, BUT THESE MONKIES HAVE WORMED THEIR WAY INTO MY HEART AND MIND, HOW DARE-

FUCK IT, THIS IS EXPANDING INTO THE LEGO MONKIE KID TIMELINE. AND I'M SHOVING THESE TWO INTO IT.

I WANT TO HUG YOU AND SHAKE YOU AT THE SAME TIME.

-

Firstly, this drawing was an EXPERIENCE. I knew about the four spiritual primates, but the other two are mentioned once each in the entirety of jttw. I spent quite a bit of time trying to find like ANY other information about like what they're intended to represent/symbolize in jttw, but I came up pretty much empty. Though I did find out that they can also be translated to be called the "The Four World-Wrecking Monkeys."

Anyway, meet Cháng-bì Yuán [left] and Mǎ hóu [right], aka the Long-Armed Ape and Bare-bottomed Horse Monkey. I really hope their names translated the way I wanted them to.

I have spent so many hours trying to figure out their species and designs.

I originally intended to design Cháng-bì off of an extinct species of gibbon, but I was unable to find any reconstructions or artistic renditions of any of the three extinct species, so I decided to leave Cháng-bì's specific species vague.

Mǎ hóu on the other hand was far more complicated. Some translations called her a bare-bottomed ape, or horse monkey, and others said baboon. I have no idea what a "horse monkey" is and my searches didn't yield much. It definitely didn't help that baboons are not native to Asia. I decided to make her a gelada, cause they live in grasslands and eat grass which is kinda horse-like I guess? They also have these gorgeous manes and lion-like tails. (Have you seen their teeth? That shit gave me nightmares as a kid)

Cháng-bì's clothing gave me a bit of trouble. I know gibbons have long arms, but drawing them is so weird since my brain tells me she's heavily disproportionate. I covered her arms with sleeves both because I like the look, and it helps me ignore her arm length.

I looked up a lot of different styles of hanfu before settling on this one for Cháng-bì. I actually finished this pic like two days ago, but I went back and completely redesigned her hanfu cause I really didn't like it. I don't think this will be her final look, same for Mǎ hóu. I have a number of issues with both of their clothing. Cháng-bì's collar and embroidery looks off. And do me a favor and pay as little attention to Mǎ hóu's armor as humanely possible. But this gives me a pretty good starting point.

I am not the best at clothing design, as you've probably noticed by now...

I can't find much information on them outside of their one mention in jttw. I'm not expecting that they themselves appear anywhere, but like what do they mean?? What do they represent? What would be proper powers to give them? Cause currently Cháng-bì's possible abilities sound the most terrifying.

Guys, I need answers, I need information. Or ideas or something. I am not knowledgeable enough in the Chinese mythos to plan these two out the way I want to. I have a very vague idea about their pasts and personalities, but nothing I'm comfortable with solidifying.

Any form of help or resource is very welcome.

Overall, this was a pretty fun mini project. I even got to draw a protective SWK.

[journeytothewestresearch]

Ty! On that note, what is the most accurate translation when describing the Four Monkeys? The Red-Buttocked Monkey in particular because you’ve got translations like horse monkey, baboon, and possibly mandrill? I’m also interested in their abilities and would please like a reliable source on what each is capable of.

Your best source for the abilities of the four primates is JTTW. I have altered Anthony C. Yu's translation of the names to make them more accurate:

“The first,” said Tathagata, “is the Stone-Monkey of Numinous Wisdom [Lingming shihou, 靈明石猴], [1] who Knows transformations, Recognizes the seasons, Discerns the advantages of earth, And is able to alter the course of planets and stars. The second is the Red-Buttocked Horse-Monkey [Chikao mahou, 赤尻馬猴], who Has knowledge of yin and yang, Understands human affairs, Is adept in its daily life And able to avoid death and lengthen its life. The third is the Long-Armed Gibbon [Tongbi yuanhou, 通臂猿猴], who can Seize the sun and the moon, Shorten a thousand mountains, Distinguish the auspicious from the inauspicious, And manipulate planets and stars. The fourth is the Six-Eared Macaque [Liu’er mihou, 六耳獼猴] who has A sensitive ear, Discernment of fundamental principles, Knowledge of past and future, And comprehension of all things. These four kinds of monkeys are not classified in the ten categories [of life], nor are they contained in the names between Heaven and Earth” (based on Wu & Yu, 2012, vol. 3, p. 115). 如來道：「第一是靈明石猴，通變化，識天時，知地利，移星換斗；第二是赤尻馬猴，曉陰陽，會人事，善出入，避死延生；第三是通臂猿猴，拿日月，縮千山，辨休咎，乾坤摩弄；第四是六耳獼猴，善聆音，能察理，知前後，萬物皆明。此四猴者，不入十類之種，不達兩間之名。

One late-Qing source, New Dialect (Xinfangyan, 新方言, early-20th-c.), associates “horse-monkey” (mahou, 馬猴) with various iterations of Chinese terms for macaque monkeys:

"Bathing-monkey” (muhou): “mother-monkey” (muhou); mother-monkey (muhou): “full-monkey” (mihou) – these are called “horse-monkey” (mahou), the sound of each one changing [in turn]. 沐猴：母猴；母猴：彌猴，令人謂之馬猴，皆一音之轉。(the original doesn’t have punctuation)

And since the stone-monkey is Sun Wukong, the celestial primates consist of three macaques and one gibbon.

Here is my article on the four celestial primates:

[digitaldoeslmk]

INCREDIBLY curious on your thoughts of the bare-armed gibbons powers/role, if they’re still active/alive at the time of the story ! CKMH beloved though I wanna hear her gossip if she’s got any, she seems like such a chill person (lowkey wine aunt vibes, I love it)

oh she sure is!! Tongbi Yuanhou is alive and well, she has an appointment in heaven and helps to coordinate the Celestial Mansions. she's like an interdepartmental manager if you will xD i already got her design idea done, just need to Draw Her

she keeps in touch with Mahou and Wukong, she can smell when the stars and planets are gonna bring some inauspicious tidings and warns them accordingly. in fact MK gets introduced to CKMH when she gets him out of legal trouble cus TBYH called her and told her, quote, "you better get to the kid before the cops do cus, the vibes, they are off."

as for gossip, CKMH has the whole roster of it ahhdhjhawbdjh and she's quite fond of her wine, esp the rice wine she brews with her own troop of monkeys uwu they infuse it with all sorts of fruits and spices, they are a very yummy treat if veeeery alcoholic lmao