#to think that people have compared hades to kronos

[monstrumpuella]

[writterracoon]

Hades 2

Lately, I've been a bit obsessed about Hades 2, I've been watching people play the test run , listening to compilations of interactions and scouring theories.

While doing all of that, I noticed something of a pattern, a theme that often came back and I think I may have found out one of the MAIN theme and conflict of the game and I've seen nobody talk about it yet, so here we go.

More under if you're not against being possibly spoiled.

I think one of the major themes of Hades 2 is going to be about Humanity and its complex relationship with the Gods, the way the gods treat mortals and the way mortals treat the gods.

here are my evidences

The interactions

the first thing that put me on this path was this interaction between Melinoe and Nemesis.

In this conversation, Nemesis and Melinoe are talking about Retribution and Justice and how Nemesis believes that Kronos taking over the underworld and challenging the Olympians may be what they deserve. Notice how Nemesis specifically mentions mortals and the Golden Age.

For those who don't know, in greek mythology the Golden Age was the first Era of Humanity and when Chronos was the ruler of the heavens. It was a time of peace and harmony for humanity where there existed no plague or famine, there was no need to work as they could simply pick their food from nature itself. They lived long lives, remaining youthful and died peacefully in their sleep.

Nemesis is I think trying to hint to Melinoe that maybe the situation is not exactly as black and white as it first seems and that humanity may have a bigger role in this than first thought.

A second interaction i want to bring to mind is about Moros and his relationship with mortals.

Here Moros admits that sometimes he because of was simply bored he would knowingly bring doom and pain to Mortals ending their lives painfully.

Archnea's interactions are also the strongest contenders for that theory, as they bring back that theme of divine cruelty, the gods view of mankind and how they callously treat them.

She has been wronged by the gods for the simple reason that she was better than them at something and they naturally couldn't stand it so they cursed her to live as a spider. She is filled with resentment for them and even warns Mel not to trust them. Also, note how she admits she fears the gods more than she fears Chronos.

2. Dora

Now Dora is a bit particular because we don't know much about her, but I have seen a theory and some interaction with Moros seem to be pointing toward it, which is that she might be Pandora, the original sinner of Greek mythology.

the myth of Pandora goes a bit like this: During the Golden Age, after Prometheus stole fire from the gods and gifted it to humanity, the gods decided to punish Prometheus by punishing humanity. They built Pandora, a woman beautiful beyond compare, and gave her a box full of the evils of the world. They then send her to seduce Epimetheus Prometheus's brother, who despite his brother's warning is promptly seduced by Pandora's beauty and welcomes her into his home. She then opened the box and released the evil of the world upon mankind, thus ending the Golden Age. Only hope stays inside the box.

Again if this is indeed true, it would follow the theme of the gods inflicting pain and suffering upon mankind for petty reasons, uncaring about the consequences of those actions.

3. Hades I

During the first game, many interactions points toward the gods general uncaring attitudes about mortals. Demeter thinks it was a mortal who stole her daughter away, so she decides that she will punish them all by starving them with an eternal winter. The other gods make almost mention of it only to say how much it annoys them.

4. Speculation

This part is not so much about evidences and more about speculations about the story of Hades 2 based upon my theory that mankind is going to be central in this tale.

The reason how Chronos is so powerfull, powerfull enough to free himself from Tartarus and claim the Underworld for himself, is that mortal were tired of being the gods' playthings and prayed to him, they prayed for his return, for the return of the golden age, where pain and suffering were unknown to them and the gods weren't using them for their own amusement.

The gods are going to have to deal with the fact that their poor treatment of humanity has consequences and those consequences are the return of Chronos and a second titonomachy.

Melinoe will propably have to face the fact that Chronos is wrong in challenging the gods and that the current status quo cannot be sustained any longer. The Olympian gods will have to change how they treat mankind if they wish to even have a stand a chance against chronos.

(TLDR, The Olympian gods have treated mankind like shit for a long time and now they are dealing with the consequences of those actions when the mortals are praying to Chronos to come back and restore back the golden Age where their lives weren't even half as awful. Melinoe will have to deal with the fact that her family might very well deserve what is happening to them and if she wishes to save them, the gods will have to change.)

[genericpuff]

So I just read episode 275 and I’m sort of confused?

(I took screenshots, but the ask won’t let me include them so) At the end of the episode Hera summons these little balls of light(?) , maybe small stars(?) and then she casts them down onto Kronos.

I feel like that was really anticlimactic and not illustrated well. Along with the viewer not seeing Hera fight Kronos, a God that’s been tormenting her, her last attack(?) doesn’t feel right — like, there’s no power behind, if anything, I’d compare it to what a healers animation in a game looks like.

Rachel even emphasizes how strong and brilliant Hera is with Persephone, but then doesn’t show us anything. I know the scene was split between Hera and Hades dealing with Kronos physically and mentally (asleep), but it was sort of disappointing.

What I think really sucks about the setup for the Hera vs. Kronos fight is that, as cool of a concept as it is to have Hera and Hades both fighting Kronos in separate timelines, it fails on multiple levels:

1.) All the build up of Hera saying "I was created to destroy you" winds up meaning nothing because it cuts away to Hades for the entire fight

2.) When it does cut back to Hera, she's just kinda... sitting on Kronos? Like what did she do besides just breaking one of his fingers? Why weren't we allowed to see that? I think this is more so clearly Rachel's inability to write/draw fight scenes showing through, so she relied entirely on the Hades' sequence which was less physical fighting and more just Hades monologuing before turning Kronos into a diamond.

3.) And speaking of the diamond thing... so we're just expected to believe Hades could turn not just people, but Titans into diamonds? This whole time? How is he just suddenly able to do this? It feels like a shonen anime where the main character has a flashback to a scene from 3 seconds ago (in this case, Hades' conversation with Melinoe) and then unlocks a new special ability through it, but it somehow feels even less earned than it does in anime (and trust me, I can't stand that anime trope at the best of times LOL) Like at least in something like Naruto it's like... okay we have this ability Naruto's been trying to master and we've seen him work at it for a few episodes so seeing him finally nail it on the brink of defeat is like, really hype and fun. But Hades just turns Kronos into a rock out of nowhere when we had zero reason or build-up to believe that would ever be possible. Why not, IDK, have Morpheus finally master her ability to dream dive and use that to trap Kronos in an eternal sleep? At least that would have had some pre-existing foundation especially with how much of S3 was focused on the dream diving shit. IDK, the whole thing's really contrived and silly and relies a lot on the reader just going "okay! yeah that makes sense!"

4.) So Hades turned timey-wimey Kronos into a diamond... but then it cuts back to present Kronos who's just been somehow defeated by Hera through ✨magic✨ and that's just it? What about present Kronos? Is he just still trapped in Tartarus now? Why isn't he also a diamond if Hades turned some past form of Kronos into a diamond? Or was the goal just to free Melinoe so present Kronos couldn't keep using her powers? But who's to say Kronos can't just do what he did again by reaching through time to grab Melinoe and start the whole thing over again? Especially now that Melinoe doesn't remember what happened and would be none the wiser that Kronos has attempted this before? Is it because this is present Kronos whose time abilities were 'exhausted' to him 'long ago'? Then how was he able to pull Hades into the time-bowl to begin with? Again, just like the diamond thing, this entire conflict relies a lot on readers just shrugging and accepting it because there's zero foundation for the concepts that are being portrayed and thus zero logic besides "just go with it".

I can go on and on about it but at the end of the day LO just isn't a comic that should have attempted having any big Marvel fight scenes. This is an issue in a lot of romance comics that have gone on too long, they start to lose the plot around their third season and then just throw everything out the window for some other big plot that makes no sense within the context of the story. Somehow LO, a Greek myth fantasy adaption, made fighting the God of Time seem out of place and boring.

God I can't wait for Hades 2.

[thelesbianluthor]

Saw people talk about the fact that the trio knows every single threat they have to face before they have to confront them in the show vs in the books they actually fall into traps and then have to find a way to escape it.

This is one of the main issues i have too honestly. I understand the choice of making annabeth pick up on the statues and the name of the place and obviously guess "oh that is medusa". It works bc medusa is important and connected to her mother and like the context clues are staggering.

But comparing that moment to the start of episode 7 (which i actually really enjoyed especially compared to ep6) makes the show lose most of the tension they could have.

Like why make it an immediate exposition dump on "oh you are this and you do that and we are here for this and that" i don't mind the change of making the shop the entrance of hell but why can't they just for once fall into a trap like? They are 12 years old trying to avoid a war and fix a situation way bigger than them, they are smart and quick witted but let them make mistakes and NOT KNOW some things.

I feel like a lot of the potential of the first scene went out of the window and it just became a "here's an exposition of a scene that happened in the book" and that way even if you cut it you don't lose anything really.

Changes are a GOOD thing and that is not my issue with the show at all! I have already said that I mostly enjoy the changes that were made and I am not expecting nor want a scene for scene copy but it does make it a lot less interesting imo if they go into EVERY SINGLE SITUATION knowing what they are up against for no real reason.

You can have them know some things and guess who they are up against but like if it happens every time the tension of the danger gets lost a lot and it becomes repetitive imo.

On the good side of things tho I think you can see in general that the trio has gotten a lot more comfortable in the characters and the improvement it's very visible. I already said how I really love the casting and I only expect them to get better at portraying the characters that is a no brainer.

The flash backs were probably my favorite part of the episode along with the way they decided to visually represent Hell.

I love that we get to see a peak of Sally and Poseidon's dynamic and how hard it was for Sally to raise Percy, not only bc of the risks his godly heritage brings but also bc she was a single mother and society in general tends to give up on people that don't fit the mold.

Small Percy thinking his mom wanted to get rid of him and saying "I would never do that to you" even tho she has spent every moment doing her best to protect him vs an older Percy having to choose to leave his mom behind so he can do the right thing even tho everything he has done has been fueled by the desire to save her. That was beautiful and tragic.

Casting in general is incredible bc even with the little we saw of Poseidon (I knew the actor from black sails so I knew he would be great) I think he really nailed it.

Hades is maybe a BIT too silly but I can live with it honestly. Like we'll have time to explore and make other characters deeper later on so i don't see this as an issue.

The decision to make them aware of Kronos and tell Hades is interesting and I do like that he offered to protect Percy if he believed to be at risk.

I understand that with how things are now you never know if a show will be renewed and if you'll get to actually finish your story so I don't mind them making certain stuff known sooner and sprinkling references to future events or call backs (MOA percabeth reference I am talking abt you).

Overall I think that the strongest suit of the show right now is the cast and the way they show characters dynamics and their potential.

Like I have said before my criticism stems from my love for the material and my wish for it to do well. I have opinions that maybe will not match with others and it's okay! Not everyone has to like something! I WANT the show to keep going and grow and evolve into a better adaptation with each step because I really love the basis they laid down, the story and the characters and I see the potential most of all. I can't wait for the last episode.

[yonemurishiroku]

(tags via @smartichokes) In light of new addition to my Luke & Nico replacement post, I have so much to say about this.

Firstly, there is a fanfic in which Kronos switched to Nico as his host halfway through the series. I said fic, Nico went to Tartarus wayyyyy sooner than he should (which is sometime right after TTC I think?), and got captured by Kronos' force. The Titan considered seizing him, so Luke left the Titan Army and returned to the light side.

With that being said, the Nico in said fic didn't become the host, as Luke (and Ethan) got him out before the taking-over.

In another fic, which is about Nico's apotheosis, It is established that Kronos has been taunting Hades to become his host since he is his eldest child, and as a result, Nico would suffer the same fate should he become a God. Nico didn't, of course, but we can see that he can be a great candidate for the position of Kronos’ host Due to the potential he possesses as a child of Hades. I have talked so much about how powerful he is so I suppose this goes without saying.

On the other hand, the child of the prophecy was supposed to be the son of an eldest god, so let's imagine: Nico is a child of an elder god and now is basically One of the main factors that dictate their fate being the central of Kronos' power. Can you imagine the thrill of having both the antagonist and the protagonist a child of the big three, knowing both of them have the power to change the flow of the story? Nico might as well be the child of the prophecy and now he is in the hands of the big bad villain? Who is to say he wouldn't choose to raze the Olympic to the ground? Please, I cannot be the only one seeing the thrill of second-guessing yourself and watching Percy second-guessing himself, page by page.

Back to our AU.

- Absolutely invested in Nico with Kronos' golden eyes.

- Idk if you have noticed, but there are a number of people who would very much be delighted to see Nico joining the Titan Army - so that's a plus. Though we haven't thought as far as putting him directly in Luke's place, this is such a fun territory to play with.

On the other hand, we should have thought about that lmao what's with Minos having done exactly like this in the canon. The King did manipulate Nico in order to accelerate his uprising (tho Rick wasn't unhinged enough to give the Underworld ghosts the benefit of possessing living things except for the eidolons).

Minos failed ofc. But surely the scenario is there. Furthermore, a big reason that hindered Minos was Nico's true control over him, which returned to him upon his enlightenment, thus breaking the fake power balance. But Nico didn't have any control over Kronos. Once he's in, there's no way out. Kronos is on another level compared to Minos. Luke had one way out and that was his death. Who to say the arms of Hades wouldn't be Nico's ending should he succumb to Kronos anw.

- I like the way you mention Percy - because as it turns out, Nico can perfectly mirror Luke regarding how Percy's fatal flaw is portrayed.

Percy's fatal flaw can be summed up in one sentence - "You would sacrifice the world to save a friend". Now, for Luke, it was thanks to the guy's friendly facade at the start that Percy had trouble deeming him as the enemy at first. For Nico, that's a little different. It's not friendship - bc surely Percy didn't consider 'friend' at that time. So what could it be?

The guilt. And the Loyalty from which it sprouted.

But loyalty to what?

To Bianca's promise.

And this varies between perspectives, but I suspect this can be much, much worse than what transpired with Luke if you know how to play it right. Why? Because it weighs on Percy's kindness, his conscience, his loyalty, his morals. It feels heavier. For Luke, it was a personal betrayal. For Nico, it would be a repeated failure that resulted in two deaths.

And I doubt Percy is fond of failures and deaths.

Do you know the saying that we tend to remember bad things rather than good memories? That. Failures stuck with us, whilst success paled in comparison (Not to mention the vague depiction of Percy's lost self-esteem, but I digress).

For Luke, it might be easier: the guy's now an enemy, Percy just had to put him down - straight and clear. For Nico, it's a little bit different. The kid's obviously an enemy - but he's also that: a kid. Whose sister died in front of Percy, whom he blamed still. You can tell that the setup itself might make it harder for Percy to just straight-up consider Nico an enemy - because as it was, Nico could very well be a victim of Percy's broken promise. Percy is half a reason he fell into the hands of Kronos - as you've said.

And Percy isn't evil. He's a protagonist and he's kind. His morals would prevent him from seeing Nico as an enemy that must be taken out - not before trying restlessly to bring the kid back.

- Percy aside, Hades’ support - and all the little benefits gained from Nico's side quest - should also be taken into account. Without Nico, there wouldn't be the Curse of Achilles. Without Nico, there would be no undead army rushing to save them in the last minute in the last Olympian, but rather a flock of unbeatable enemies that would persist like Nico’s grief for Bianca.

I wouldn't say that guarantees their failure but you have to admit that it would make things hella more difficult for them to win this war.

So that is for the advantages. Now let's talk about the drawbacks. Because obviously things wouldn't be so fun if everything goes that smoothly. 👍

The most noticeable difference between Luke and Nico is their ages, and further, their experiences. At the time he was chosen, Luke has lived until his 17, 18 as a demigod, has seen the mythological world more than Nico ever did. He would know better how to navigate the system, which would benefit Kronos more than a clueless Nico. You can argue that Kronos can properly train him as Minos did, but the fact remains that Luke has experiences that can only be gained through living, aging, and seeing.

On the same topic, after losing his sister, Nico was just a rage-driven, angry, lost 11-12-year-old kid. He could barely take care of himself. He obviously cannot govern and command an entire army. Luke, on the other hand, has many skills required to be a leader. I have talked about this once. He has the tongue, he has his charms, he's manipulative enough. As a tool and a weapon, Luke proves to be a better choice to be the pioneer of Kronos' revolution.

Of course, unless you need a puppet, in which case Nico proves to be a better choice. He was naive .he didn't know better. Luke try to resist because he saw how devastating his actions were/ would be. It should be much easier to fool a kid like Nico rather than an adult, thus limiting the chances of rebuke. I cannot recall exactly what Kronos was trying to do though, so I'll just leave this here.

The best method is of course to keep Luke while getting Nico ready, however, it would put kronos plans back a few years and I'm not really sure the guy would be that patient provided that he has been waiting thousand years to make a come back. So we will just leave it like that.

All in all, it's fun to think about a scenario in which the one whose contribution directly leads to their victory in the original series now becomes the main antagonist, the main reason they will likely fail. Thank you @smartichokes for the delightful idea!! 🥺🥺🥺

[vwoop-prince]

spoilers for the pjo show episodes 1-7

as of 10pm pst 25/01/2024 i have finished watching episode 7 of the pjo show and i was going to wait and see the final episode before posting my thoughts but i feel like critisism is fine at all points of a show so. this accidentally turned into the majority of my points & some are just poking fun/funny notes

some notes before i get into complaining: im having fun. this is fun for me. complaining about differences is fun for me. if its not for you, dont read this. i also havent even read mark of athena EVER and the last time i properly read a pjo book was in 2021. ive been skimming the first book alongside watching the episodes. and i am not seriously pissed off about the show as a whole. there are parts im pissed off at. there are parts that i think are fucking hilarious comparatively. there are parts im neutral on. i dont hate this show on principle just bc its not the books.

anyway the funniest takeaway from this adaptation is that we can literally complain down to a single grain of sand. if that vibe isnt what you like, maybe dont open the read more

yeah its hilarious how they changed the "grover nearly falls into tartarus" scene from gravel floor in the books to a sand floor in the show. idk why they did it but i can complain down to a single fuckin grain of sand. this is hilarious

look okay i love hades. just. period. in the actual myths, in the pjo books, how most people characterize him as a whole, and how i worship him as a pagan. notice how i didnt mention the show. like. show!hades is fine. hes just not book!hades. not even CLOSE. wheres the yelling? the "and I will have my helm back!" wheres the "He was the third god I'd met, but the first who really struck me as godlike." in the show hes just flamboyant. in the books hes a drama King and rightfully angry and complains about the state of his realm. whyd they do this to him. what the fuck

on the topic of godly gods. only hermes and hades have seemed like gods. hermes more than hades. ares, dionysus, and hephaestus are all just Guys. just some fuckin dudes. and the only reason hermes and hades actually seem like Gods is bc of their attitude/dialogue/mannerism and the scenery around them respectively. not combined. respectively.

i would LOVE to see the mental gymnastics percy had to do to guess that kronos is behind this shit. in the books there are five times kronos is mentioned. 1: as the first mythological being ever mentioned. 2: talking about the big three's dad before percy gets his prophecy. 3: when percy questions what it was like before the gods' time just before going on the quest. 4: when percy is speaking to zeus and poseidon alone on olympus. 5: when percy realizes who luke serves. they do NOT explicitly state that its kronos in the underworld. percy doesnt even finish his THOUGHT of who gave him the bag with the bolt before he tries to make amends with a pissed off hades. hes not able to explain to hades that it was ares EVER.

typical "oh percys so much smarter in the show than in the books" except its the kids are so much smarter about the myths than they should be. and like i Understand okay? i get it. sally made sure to grow percy up on the myths so hes prepared. annabeth has been at camp for five years, learning all she can as a child of athena. grover is in his mid twenties and a satyr. a protector. of course they should know shit. but figure it all out before even meeting the monsters? they knew it was medusa as soon as they saw the 'aunty m' sign. they knew it was procrustes before even ENTERING the building. why? why not have the kids be blindsided by shit? especially with medusa, who is meant to have either an enchantment-type thing like cc's island or who can bend the mist to have an enchantment-like thing that fooled annabeth. and crusty worked so fast they didnt have time to compare notes before grover and annabeth were trapped on their beds. why do they immediately know whats going on? wheres the suspense? wheres the showing not telling?

i always thought sally wouldve been yknow Normal just frozen in time and with gold dust around her similar to the sulphur of monsters disintegrating. not that she Was Gold. its like they really wanted to show off their fake gold statues idea

remember how hades looked in the show. now heres a screenshot of percy describing him. they are not the same (yes im salty about it)

How Fucking Dare they skip Persephone's garden. Why. absolutely Why. yes i do worship her too and im so damn salty theres not even a MENTION of her in ep 7

did i mention that the area around the pit to tartarus is meant to be gravel and not sand? bc its meant to be gravel. and they sure as hell couldntve leasurely stuck around it to chat bc its meant to INHALE. ITS MEANT TO TRY AND SUCK THE KIDS IN.

btw the 4 pearls? im fine with that. grover shouldve lost his on the tumble towards tartarus and we shouldve seen it fuckin fly away and watch the kids watch it plummet to the bottom. hell having a little after credits scene at the end of ep 8 where a random monster gets sent to the beach bc the pearl landed on them and shattered wouldve been HILARIOUS.

the missed deadline however? no. bullshit. 'its so the lotus can be even more dangerous' my ass. percys determined to see this quest through to the end, determined to stop the war before it fully starts, and yet theres no urgency. id even say theres LESS urgency than the books where they had a DAY to get the bolt & get to zeus (with added helm to hades & ares fight). sure it didnt make much sense for ALL THAT to be within a DAY but yknow what? time is fucky and they couldve had the underworld take like three overworld minutes yknow?

speaking of the war theyve know it could happen since the WINTER SOLSTICE. its now passed the SUMMER SOLSTICE. 'your father must rally his men' WHAT HAVE THEY BEEN DOING FOR HALF A YEAR??? SITTIN ON THEY ASSES TWIDDLIN THEIR THUMBHS???

lets go back to hades's aura btw bc ares didnt even have his. not a single fucking deity has had their aura. there was nothing with dionysus about madness and grapes (no scared reaction from percy), no war and fighting with ares (no weird anger from percy), and no hades feeling like he owns your very soul. why? whys there no aura? that might be the biggest reason none of these guys feel like gods to me

where's perseus "sass & improv" jackson. theres no "lord and uncle, i come with two requests". theres no "who said anything about dreams?". theres no fucking "big bathtub" no "circus caravan" not even fucking "you look taller"

why didnt the other flying shoe kick them on the head. cmon guys

the souls in asphodel arent ALWAYS bound with regret and their choices (or lackthereof) in life. sometimes thats where the ordinary go. thats where the regular ass people go, or the people that dont want to even have a chance of going to the fields of punishment. you got this right in the books, why did you revert to this in the show?

also no hint of hazel? i dont care if we never get to hoo. we might not get to titans curse, making the nico & bianca hint useless. im not sayin they shouldve casted someone as hazel for that scene, im not sayin she shouldve been the only root-bound spirit talking (dislike that idea, btw, what happened to wandering spirits thatre not spooky. theyre just sad.). one of the root-bound spirits just having fucking crystals sprouted up next to them wouldve been good enough.

also yeah wheres elysium and the fields of punishment

WHEN DID GROVER GET HIS MEMORY BACK

WHY DID HE EVEN LOSE ANY TO BEGIN WITH

charon would never turn down that much money

book sally and show sally are two different people

also not once has there been a mention of a monster smell?? of the underground smelling like monsters, of grover's distaste for being under ground, for anything like that???

speaking of grover. why isnt he eating shit. wheres his tin cans. his diet coke cans. his pinochle cards. his hacky-sack apple that he accidentally eats that gets the kids to be kids. whyd annabeth have to throw shade at him in the lotus scene about eating shit when hes not eaten a single non-edible thing in this entire show.

oh have i mentioned that they just got rid of every single fucking bit of foreshadowing the books ever have btw? bc holy shit lemme rant and this is somethin im GENUINELY pissed about

annabeth doesnt realize it could be kronos on the cab ride bc theres no cab ride. theres no 'its hades. it has to be'.

kronos is not the first mythological being mentioned

all these dreams??? not a single one was even important nor was luke even in one as a voice like i remember most of the first books dreams i dont remember any of the show.

no thalia hint in a dream which. okay i guess. dont want to cast her too early. but cmon man casting a thalia and changing her actor when she gets out of the tree wouldve been like an easter egg to messing up her eyecolor in the books. it wouldve been funny for the readers. cmon guys

the only hint we have of luke disliking his dad is when percys just about to leave for his quest and not? throughout the weeks percy spends at camp? Why

LUKE DOESNT EVEN THROW ANNABETH AND GROVER UNDER THE BUS IN THE SHOW. WHY. no 'youd have to be invisible' no 'maybe this time no one will turn into a tree'???

also dislike how we get all of the thalia lore basically Immediately wheres that slow release story that we gotta piece together alongside percy

oh gods another thing i fucking HATE: THERES NO SWORD TRAINING SCENE. theres also no showing that percy is rejuvinated via water/rain/is good with boats/horses that is like small foreshadowing that hes a son of poseidon but THERES NO SWORD TRAINING. THERES NO 'lukes the greatest sword fighter in decades!' compared to the final book where percys the best sword fighter now, theres no 'really difficult sword technique done first try' theres NONE OF THAT. WHYYY

the whole annabeth and percy were each other's tethers in the lotus casino is an early percy using annabeth as his tether in the styx and them sticking together in tartarus yes but also. why they gotta figure out the lotus immediately. wheres the fucking charm and enchantment though? wheres the ''its 1977' 'its WHAT'' wheres annabeth playing her architect sims wheres grover killing polluting humans wheres the fun. wheres the dawning horror that somethings not right. wheres the terrifying realization that percy nearly forgot his mother's name, that they have a quest, that they dont remember how long its been

hot take: lin manuel maranda is a fine hermes. i didnt even know who he was until i asked my dad btw. hes a jumpscare for yall hamilton nerds. im built dif (dislikes musicals)

take this copy-paste from my discord notes bc tumblr is lagging as im writing this:

they made grover smarter here than the books and i do like that tbh. him manipulating ares into giving some answers. him realizing that theyre not eating lotuses and augustus is still forgetting even new shit. and then grover forgetting what he was doing before augustus & pan in the same breath. i feel like theyre just using grover in place of longer and more drawn out back-n-forth convos & scenes though and that i dont like

TALKING ABOUT MAY NOW WAS GOOD. LEARNIGN THAT SHE WENT MAD FROM LOOKING INTO THE FUTURE? NOT GOOD. LEAVE US MORE OF A MYSTERY GUYS THAT COULDVE BEEN MENTIONED IN SEASON 3 BY THALIA OR SOMETHIN

also can they stop splitting up the kids. look i think the fields of asphodel was like that bc scheduling conflict with leah? right? why split aryan up from them TWICE tho with waterland and lotus tho. we dont need percabeth shit rn guys theyre TWELVE and prob didnt have crushes crushes until the next year at the earliest (spoken from someone that didnt ship percabeth until the kiss at mt st helens)

oh yeah have i mentioned that them blaming clarisse is Awful. its Terrible. they owe that girl the biggest fucking apology. yes i know percy threw clarisse out in his talk with ares on the beach but im pretty sure its never stated ever again and not before that

also? clarisse being a bully bc she cant fathom that percy fucked up the minotaur? why? why isnt she just a bully for the sake of it?

i dont think theyve even named her spear though. no ones called it lamer. no ones said it was a gift from ares

also im pissed at them saying ares doesnt care for his kids/hates them. no he doesnt. (insert that one myth people were throwing around about him killing his daughters assaulter) as well as clarisse being is favorite daughter in a while. she got the chance to get that fuckin chariot thing from her godly brothers or whatever i read that mini story once an wasnt paying too much attention. is ares a good dad? no. no mythical being is a good parent period. does he hate his kids? no

logic issue: how the fuck do the roller coasters in the lotus work. when they first pan up to look at the outside theres people on roller coasters and theyre on the OUTSIDE of the building. does the time bubble extend to them? then why are they normal-paced when the lotus moves far slower than the outside world? or are the roller coasters outside the bubble, but because of the time fuckery, it kinda just looks like they blip out of existence for less than a blink and are straight back inside the casino? and the lotus in the air makes them not question the rapidly changing outside world's appearance?

"we take a zebra to vegas" no zebra

writers stop writing monotheistic views into polytheistic worlds challenge. WHY dont monsters attack on sunday??? huh??? bc i dont know that historical connection to ancient, before 1AD, greece. please. enlighten me as to why ancient greek monsters from the ancient greek polytheistic religion wouldnt attack demigods on something known as 'the lord's day' anytime after 1AD. enlighten me. and then explain to me why MONSTERS care

i will say im glad they kept annabeth's mess up with the IM. "show me camp half-blood. chiron's office." compared to "half-blood hill." she was a bit more specific sure and it could bring the question of why luke was in chiron's office in the show.

first: how percy tossed the coin was shit and shouldntve gone that far. second: was that a reference to jason grace.

is getting an IM signal a new thing? as in "not percy jackson and the olympians" thing, and a "heroes of olympus and higher" thing? bc ive never heard of that, and it makes sense for a prism. which also makes sense for them to have since IMs are very important. just sucks that the water mist isnt gonna foreshadow sea of monsters when percy creates a mist so lukes confession has more witnesses (& the like dozen other times that percy makes mist for an IM, showing his power & control on such a minute scale, showing that hes way out of almost anyones league in power scale)

idk why they didnt have ares hoard knowledge on sally over percy's head to try and get him to do the quest. whyd they have him use poseidon ("your dad had plenty of kids he stopped caring about once he lost interest") to rile percy up? oh thats right bc theres no fucking aura

i dont see the point in changing hephaestus's trap. maybe it wouldve costed too much to do the spiders and water and net or somethin (what else is the 12-15 mil per ep being spent on? hope its not that fancy screen thing that honestly was kinda obvious in some scenes and not good oops). anyway i didnt like the change to the throne, didnt like the self sacrifice (theyre really hammering that in), and i didnt really like them changing it to immediately showing it was hera that threw hephaestus off olympus? i feel like having one more thing against zeus for a while wouldve been good, or at least waiting until annabeth and hephaestus somehow got on that topic so hephaestus can correct annabeth

speaking of correcting annabeth: the medusa scene? where annabeth is all 'youre wrong bc my mother is just'? they shouldve had conflicting myths. i can understand doing the most modern retelling of medusa's myth (bonus points for it being roman in origin) bc the gods and monsters are heavily susceptible to belief. if enough people believe that retelling of the myth, then of course its gonna become the "true" one. they shouldve had annabeth argue that thats the roman myth and this is greek, or that medusa's story was modern and she knows the most ancient version we know of (ie: medusa & her sisters were always monsters). them talking about the same myth? doesnt really make sense, unless that was the only surviving medusa myth that just so happened to be the "truth". doesnt help the 'constantly shifting capital of power' thing

speaking of that: was that even mentioned? in the show? that the gods shift to the place with the most power? i dont think it was. why.

back to hephaestus and the shield tho: wheres aphrodite's scarf.

percy EXPLAINING myths to ANNABETH??? the seat myth with hera n whatnot??? WHAT. book 1 annabeth would NEVER

"it's like people only see what they wanna see and ignore anything at all that doesn't fit the story they like to tell themselves" / "exactly! like you being the one to find the lightning thief and not her." i didnt understand that leap in thought btw. very confused.

percy saying 'from an orthodontist's office maybe'. ow. gods. im not that much older than him and i recognize that from my dad playing it. an ortho office. oof (couldnt tell you the title or artist tho dont care that much bout it)

oh yeah this is the ONLY time we get a 'satyrs dont eat meat' thing. "satyrs eat tofu" ares says. like i know percy & grover swapped something on their sandwiches in the first episode but do you really think id be able to recognize what they swapped?

oh yeah speaking of the first ep: bit disappointed they didnt do the digenerative leg disease thingie as a cover for grovers legs. i mean. makes sense. dont want to downplay that disability. also consider though: grovers legs arent human legs & he needs a cover for why he cant do some things & shouldnt do others, and a leg issue wouldve been the best choice

also the no mist on his legs throughout the entire quest? dont like that tbh. i dont care that this isnt in JUST percy's pov anymore. the mist should affect shit outside camp

speaking of the mist. where the fuck is it. was it even mentioned once. its not a thing in the show for some fuckinggg reasonnnnnnnn

annabeth trying to rile ares up btw? what the fuck? plus grover not being scared shitless & doing the beach talk on his own in the diner? dislike. this is what happens WITHOUT THE AURA

oh yeah the diner is just called 'diner' in the show btw and that was hilarious bc theres so many places just called 'place'. ive seen small walk in clinics just called 'clinic'. diners called 'diner'. bars called 'bar'. place for hearing aids LITERALLY CALLED 'HEARING AIDS'. its funny

take this discord screen shot about some of the ares diner thing bc copy pasting as straight text would make this longer and rewriting it is not in the cards (yes i numbered all my complaints and made live notes to myself)

not aging the show. name drops twitter. like im sorry guys if you show a car or a phone then youre aging the show but did you have to name drop TWITTER of all things???

have i mentioned theyre meant to IM luke before ares btw. have i also mentioned that the kids get to the diner first and ares appears then. small timeline changes i no likey (only half joking)

imma be real i dont like that they changed it so annabeth witnesses the fates cut the string. dont like it that grover doesnt pay attention until its passed. dont like that percy is NONCHALANT about it when hes told. be chalant man. book percy knew it was a big deal even when he didnt know shit.

(insert the continuity error of waterland near denver colorado and the arch in like illinois or somethin and theyre now WALKING in the show when its a two day TRAIN ride in the books that everyone already talked about)

ah right THEY DONT SHOW THE FIRST NEREID TALK. WHY. also WHY IS PERCY WET. WHY DID HE STILL NOT KNOW HE CAN BREATHE. WHY DIDNT THEY SHOW THAT WHATEVER PERCY TOUCHES CAN STAY DRY WITH THE LIGHTER. THAT WAS SO COOL

i do like the change that percy doesnt pray to poseidon when he gets off the arch. i was going to say jumps off but then i remembered that he fell off in the show which was definitely a change that im not neutral on but im not 100% on if it was positive or negative

what happened to the clear sighted mortal btw

i dislike how echidna and the chimera were handled. again. what happened to being blind sided. what happened to shock and sudden appearances. i dont care if the chimera was learning to hunt. the realization that echidna was a monster with her forked tongue was great.

i was going to write "wheres the suicidal thoughts" (ie percy thinking the monster wont attack mortals if he dies/jumps out of the arch) then remembered that this isnt 1st person and theres no voice over (which wouldve made this show 1000% better)

okay. so. they dont show percy nailing the difficult sword technique, but they DO show him getting hits on the chimera. when in the books he doesnt get a single hit on the chimera. to quote my disc notes: percy gets precisely ZERO hits on the chimera. first slash at neck, deflected by a collar that name-drops Tartarus. second slash at the mouth just after the tail stabbed his leg, tail wrapped around leg and pulled him around dropping riptide down the hole. again, poison Immediate

right the poison not being immediate. im. why

WHY DIDNT PERCY GO THROUGH THE CHIMERA'S FIRE BLAST. IT WOULDVE SHOWN HIS RESISTANCE TO FIRE AS A SON OF POSEIDON THATS PLAYED WITH BIT MORE IN SEA & LABRYNTH

the rivers meant to be way more polluted btw

i do like the accurate change to the arch tho. showing that the water reached up and grabbed him was kinda the "duh" answer but if you read this scene plainly without much thought then yeah in the books the arch goes over the river so. it wasnt even that much of a discussion point bc pjo universe architecture was different i guess

anaklusmos is meant to fall out the arch during the fight, not further in, and percy's meant to have a good length of time standing on the arch without the sword returning to his pocket

have i mentioned that so far all these monster fights are disappointing and lackluster

oh btw the taxi scene after lotus? fucking hate how thats MORE dramatic than the actual MONSTER FIGHTS

the arch being a temple to athena or whatever? nice change, dont really like how it replaced more architecture talk tho. shouldve been an add-on in the middle of annabeths geeking out bout the math n structure that percy tries to focus on but annabeth shrugs it off and goes on about the perfect balance of the lean-to stuff (i dont know architecture)

her "so poseidon can't ruin it" about the earthquake protection plate things though? rude and not what show annabeth shouldve said since theres been no/little "poseidon vs athena" rivalry talk (besides annabeth praying to her mom and getting shunned & percy not praying and getting saved. that was a good parallel).

adding indigenous folk to grover's talk of genocide & erasure was good, just wish there was more on it & throughout more of the quest

them throwing in the "not all monsters are monsters" and "not all demigods are heroes" talk seemed kinda half-assed and like they didnt really know where to go with it. i like it bc itll be expanded on with like circe a bit & zoë & ethan nakamura / luke / the demigods on the titan's army & especially with tyson all throughout sea. but like. if i hadnt read the books then id think they added those points just bc they were expected to, especially since its not even brought up again in later episodes

wasted opportunity for not saying "Isn’t that a kind of anteater?" what happened to my sassy boy you didnt have to change the sass guys that line is still funny pleaseee

rip gladiola & rip the signs of life whenver pan is mentioned

okay so i could understand the centaurs in the first book not partying bc maybe rick didnt think of that until the next one but? the show centaurs not partying? sure maybe its not the party ponies maybe its another sector/group but like. cmon. i wouldve laughed if they had those glow stick necklaces & a disco ball & shit

what latched onto the outside of the train car btw. what monster was that. i couldnt tell

1st what does froofy mean 2nd that was good dialogue on grovers part

annabeth & percys talk about thalia/luke/her dad... genuinely i dont have much thoughts on it (good or bad) besides that i reread lukes diary after watching that episode & luke & thalia were fine with annabeth joining them. thalia was proud that luke acted how he did with her. didnt really like that she said she had to "earn it" with thalia

ah yes. the dream just before the thalia talk. what the hell did kronos mean "she is coming" was he, for some stupid fucking reason, warning them about echidna??? the nereid??? OR DID HE MEAN GAEA. DID HE FUCKING MEAN HIS MOTHER. WHAT IN THE HELL

how they showed that olympus is connected to the empire state building at the end of ep 3? dislike that. doubly dislike how hermes already knew what was in the box before anyone opened it

"hermes express" hermes, walking to the elevator in the empire state building when we know for a fact they can just beam anywhere:

them not showing DOA at all & not showing the address to the underworld in medusa's area? didnt like that at all, felt less like a scavanger hunt & more like a fetch quest (ik getting the bolt is a fetch quest, but this is like double fetch quest instead of one part fetch one part egg hunt)

ANYONE LEARNING ABOUT THE BETRAYAL PART OF THE PROPHECY BTW??? DIDNT LIKE THAT. PREFERED WHEN PERCY WAS TRYING TO GO AROUND THE PROPHECY/NOT THINK ABOUT IT. also the betrayal hasnt been mentioned since except when they decided to blame clarisse, but that was as the lightning thief & not friend betrayal

okay so the bus scene & them turning a fury (alecto?) to stone. didnt like the changes. i feel like they changed it so percy's mortal kill count doesnt start so young (half joking) but it kinda gets rid of the whole "the gods dont take into account how their emotions/reactions affect mortals". plus the hurricane isnt sudden in montauk, it builds since percy uses the fountain

them shortening the yancy time btw? will agree it makes sense, dont agree that its better/even a neutral change. it gets rid of the gaslighting, the mist, the first instance of the winter solstice, this:

have i mentioned they got rid of all the fucking foreshadowing GODS IT PISSES ME OFF

okay back to medusa. her not being able to get you if shes invisible? isnt how i imagined her eyes working in pjo & the myths. also i understand not wanting to show beheading in a "kids show" but also why invisible you can just have it happen just off screen until they get it in a bag (which yeah wouldve been fundementally the same as invisible but cmon)

dislike the medusa plan change. 'i'll get in the air & draw her attention' thats literally the opposite of what they wanted in the books

WHY WAS THERE FIRE ON THE STAIRS WHY DID THE BASEMENT LOOK LIKE THAT WHY WAS IT A BASEMENT & NOT LIKE A BIG GARAGE-TYPE THING (my dad explained that the fire could have been a reference to the 1981 clash of titans with the flickering suspense kind of scary but may i point out: that would be a reference to a 1981 thing in a modern kids show)

good to know her veil material is enough to block her gaze btw though. like that was a thin material and it was ENOUGH??? you didnt even have to make her invisible you probably couldve just worn your shirt on your head & saw through the tiny holes

mother/son possible relationship between medusa and percy WAY BETTER than the grooming that happens & i could definitely see as a possibility. a wild possibility but its possible

the cgi for the nereid was terrible btw. the sound for the sizzling in the percy & medusa convo was so fake. the straw empty noise grover does drinking his lemonade should not be possible with how much was actually left in his cup. that pastry grover ate should not have crunched.

copy paste of a disc note: "and you are a liar" telling the person who is centuries older than you. from a time where the gods were actively worshipped. that they are a liar about what happened to them???? what in the FUCK

another copy paste note: "my mother is just. always" is your mother the goddess of what is just??? the goddess of justice??????? no. what the fuck

the slow release of medusa's "true" myth annoyed me bc every time new info came up i was like "oh so its this myth" and then more came up and i was like "okay its this iteration" and then more info came and i just about yelled in frustration

"i dont like bullies" giving percy's lines to medusa

another copy paste note: "WE'RE NOT OUR PARENTS AFTER ALL" IS WHAT PERCY SAYS ON THE CAR RIDE WITH ARGUS TO NY PROPER. WHICH MAKES ANNABETH STOP BEING AS ANTAGONISTIC

another copy paste: theres a reason aunty em in the books used fast food containers for her food and NOT REFLECTIVE SHIT. WHAT IS THIS SILVER COVER. YOU SPEAK OF THE MEDUSA MYTH AND THEN MAKE HER HAVE REFLECTIVE SHIT THATS NOT A CAMERA LENS

another another: "you are concerned that i would hold a grudge against you simply because you are a daughter of athena?" that. is what happens in the books yes. you hold a grudge against annabeth and you try and manipulate/groom percy bc you loved poseidon

grover was the only one not enticed by aunty em's magic/mist/food, which was odd, bc hes eaten most everything before and hinted that something was off. bc yknow in the books they DIDNT KNOW IT WAS MEDUSA TIL THEY ALMOST DIED

why was there a bell on her home door. why is her home next to her store

sally empathizing with medusa? fine. her not telling percy all of the different myth versions? not fine.

"i think we can trust her" is literally medusa

have i mentioned the poor travelling orphan circus bc i miss that

GROVER SHOULDNT CARE ABOUT HAMBURGER SMELL??? HES VEGETARIAN???

oh right zeus just not striking down the two vehicles. makes sense, he doesnt have his bolt for a precision strike, but come on

was this where we got "names have power"? i dont remember if its here or not at all. especially since they continue to say names. and yes this was in the book i know its both funny and smack-my-head-against-the-wall worthy throughout the series

copy paste: "youre not the frightened little girl i came for all those years ago" yeah you didnt go for annabeth. you went for thalia. you got what you wanted (maybe not entirely but whatever). the fuck are you ON about alecto

annabeth not knowing how to function in a gas station was good and funny and sad

carrying the shoes in the box btw? terrible. shouldve immediately given them to grover before leaving camp. or. better yet. luke shouldve had witnesses for giving the shoes to percy so it wouldve been immediate

FORGOT ARGUS WASNT IN THIS. DISAPPOINTED

copy paste: "do exactly as i say" im not sure i like how theyre trying to portray the bossiness of annabeth. its different but its still the same level of bossiness. "are we clear?" honey you havent been outside camp since you were SEVEN. youre TWELVE. get OVER YOURSELF

"she met a pinecone's fate" was fucking hilarious and i will not hear otherwise

annabeth saying goodbye to thalia is fantastic

"i thought about choosing you before i chose grover" I HATE THE CHANGES THEY DID TO GETTING THE QUEST. percy chooses grover IMMEDIATELY and is all "oh jee willikers i wonder who would be stupid enough to volunteer for this surely deadly quest" and annabeth rips her hat off and half forces herself on the quest (she was pushy but percy did agree so. half.). there wasnt the 'telling the entire head of cabins' there wasnt 'debating on luke' THERE WASNT ANY OF THAT SHIT

poor canada. that shade is meant to be next season with the cannibals and oh wait theres probably not gonna be cannibals bc "kids show". right. chuck e cheese was a good fuckin joke tho

chiron isnt that straight forward that he suspects hades and that the entrance to the underworld is in la. small thing but D: hes a teacher he should still have the 'lead the kids to the answer' instinct

now for eps 1 & 2 i didnt make live notes, i did it hours after watching them, so ill definitely miss shit

no myth to make zeus thinking poseidon would genuinely want to unseat him actually make sense

no storm getting past the barrier, no campers reaction to that, no calling zeus crazy

NO DOLPHIN THREAT D:

i hated that there was nothing between his claiming and the quest. wheres the alienating. wheres the dislike. wheres the new expectations & disgust & fear. WHERES THAT DAMN NEWSPAPER

also hated how there was NO HELLHOUND

no nemesis foreshadowing (ik rick got her wrong at first, saying she was a god n not a goddess, and it might not have been intentional but ethan nakamura sure was important)

no talking about zeus, hera, artemis, & hades cabins??? for some reason???

no balanced sword talk

NO BLUE CHERRY COKE WHAT THE FUCK

no monsters stoked in the woods, no harpies, no naiads, no "Not a single living thing."

no talk about how monsters revive, no talk of the move west, no mention of chiron age & still being needed as a teacher of heroes. also NO STELE. WHYYYYY

there was no pull to poseidon's cabin

THERE WAS NO HESTIA. IM SO PISSED

why did grover have to TELL percy that his mom might still be alive. percy IMMEDIATELY thinks that when he gets the idea that maybe this greek shit is real. or, at least, he thinks he can get her back

the hermes cabin was not NEARLY crowded enough. its meant to be FILLED. its meant to be BARELY ANY WALKING SPACE. not. like. maybe three kids on the floor. plus no laughter at percy asking when hes gonna get claimed

no mention of the romans???

percy didnt really??? go through a denial phase in the show??? for some reason???

personal opinion: i couldnt even get through the dionysus talk btw. too awkward. i skimmed the subtitles & didnt have my headphones on

the only mention of capital G god & the metaphysical & the Gods was when percy thought he was the second coming of christ. that was funny ill give you that. however. wheres the overwhelming lore dump

was there? a science talk? i dont think there was. whyy

for some reason they didnt get into mr d's restriction all that much

BARELY ANY GROVER FEARING MR D. NO MR D & SATYR CONNECTION

no ambrosia no nectar no grover bleating

theres been no cursing in greek or latin so far btw. why. i feel like you could ask plenty of people for a good translation, if the ogs sucked. and im sure the kids could get a good enough score from people who speak greek/ancient greek and latin

there was no memory of poseidon seeing percy as a baby???

no nature magic thing with percy replicating the thing grover did on the bus at gabe and having the door slam him. maybe bc rick didnt think that made much sense since its never shown again but that was Funny

gabe seems less like an abusive drunkard and more like a dirty loser (yes ik he restricts/feels entitled to all comunication & financial whatnot & that is abuse but so far (AS OF EPISODE SEVEN (7)) he doesnt deserve to get turned to stone for that)

ive basically already mentioned everything else previous except: percy vaporizing alecto bc anaklusmos just so happened to be opening in a way where alecto was in the way? and that made her die? wheres the instinct??? i dont care if percy's visibly shit at swinging that sword, there shouldve been the instinct to get up and swing

lastly: anaklusmos shouldve been given back after alecto & returned before quest. using her during the minotaur was useless and, again, didnt show the power boost percy gets from all water (rain)

now on the names topic: im not saying br-oo-ner. its spelt brun-er, i say brun-er. they also say th-augh-lee-ah. i will still say th-AH-lee-ah

i will just reiterate this is for fun. this is fun for me and if youve read all of this then it should be fun for you, too, to complain/discuss this. if its not and youre genuinely pissed off with my observations: i do not care. barely anything you say will change my opinions/observations, and if youre aggressive im immediately throwing your opinion away. this is fun for me. this is how i have fun. this is a saltwater fountain to those that also have fun discussin/breaking shit apart. if you dont find it fun, then go enjoy your olive branch away from here

to anyone that also has fun with this: tear my observations apart. tell me everything that i got wrong bc i only read some books years ago. dont worry about spoiling me. i dont care about spoilers. i prefer all the info upfront instead of gatekept behind "but itll ruin your experience when you read it for the first time!!!!" i spoiled myself about who nico's dad was when i was on sea of monsters okay im fine. i know jason's circumstances in trials of apollo. i might not know everything that happened in house of hades (or anything about trials and later) but that shouldnt stop you.

ill state again: i like the show. the show's alright. im not sure id call it good because ive read the books & i do prefer book lightning thief to the show. but i like it and am hoping it gets more seasons. i hope we at least finish last olympian, but i would like to see hoo get adapted.

some of these are complaining for the sake of it (down to a grain of sand), some of these are actual criticisms about the adaptation (the removal of the foreshadowing that was in the books & abscense of groundworks for later books & hoo (yes i saw the kids with purple shirts in the lotus scene thats not enough)), some mightve been criticisms of it as a show (plenty of people have mentioned that the pacing is bad, i didnt want to focus on it). it's all in good fun

i do have a thought though: This could've easily been a rewritten book. In fact, it would've been far better as a rewritten, first-person limited book. I think it would've taken less time (able to just write your vision and not have barely any stage directions as your only descriptors & run it by writers, directors, actors, etc.), less money (12-15 MILLION usd per EPISODE??? compared to a writing program & looking for someone to publish it???), and would've taken less time (writing, waiting for approval, casting, booking, filming, post production, waiting, uploading, waiting for renewal, repeat. compared to writing at your own speed & publishing whenever (possibly even waiting until enough books are done?)). My reading fanfic more than traditional books/watching shows/movies definitely affects my opinion, I will readily admit that. But I think my own imagination of the happenings in the book would've been fine. Would there be new fans? Probably not as many. Would old fans come back? Again, probably not as many. Would it have been better? I think so.

TLDR: there were more neutral changes than good ones, a lot weren't good (comparatively), some were funny, some got rid of the funny, this is fun for me and if it wasn't for you then L. die madge. i want to hear other's opinions though. and i think this show should've been a rewritten first-person book and not a tv show.

[autism-alley]

ok full immediate finale thoughts!!! spoilers for everything below!!

LUKE NARRATION???? SAYING PERCY’S FIRST LINE??? YES HELL YES THE PARALLEL

FINALLY PERCY VS LUKE SWORD FIGHT TRAINING BETTER LATE THAN NEVER I GUESS

ok??? liking it so far

nvm not liking the kronos part and how he just Knows so earlyyyy

walker’s angry face is GOOD

god blood is gold!! glad they included that

ok dialogue feeling a little clunky again

why is hades’ helm bronze i thought it would be stygian iron like nico’s sword (edit: it’s not i looked it up)

don’t like that we’re just back at montauk and the police/press don’t show up which is like. what’s the point of making him a suspected domestic terrorist and national fugitive if it’s not relevant to this fight?? and it doesn’t play a role in how the trio gets home by percy making sad puppy eyes on national television as a way for the story to show percy’s cunning and grudge against gabe, and by cutting the flight back to new york there’s no sense of dread as percy takes the journey to olympus. i get they couldn’t have him fly if they changed the deadline being passed but like… maybe!! they shouldn’t have changed it. in the books it’s clear percy will be SMITED if the deadline passes and the bolt isn’t returned. IMMEDIATELY. he should already be dead. instead of in the books being shown zeus’ barely contained wrath, yet we. nothing. zeus’ first action is promised to be smiting percy and then nature will go to war with itself and i’m Not Getting The Impression At All that is happening. the radio says the weather is extreme and earthquakes are being used to break up storms but we aren’t seeing any of that. the sky is only partly cloudy here, you would think if nature is tearing itself apart it would be everywhere and very extreme. the book tells us it would be the apocalypse

lmao mrs dodds reappearance let’s see where this goes

they made her way nicer here lmao but i don’t hate it

yes!!! annabeth giving him her necklace for luck i love

those r pretty weak storm clouds like we’re finally getting some clouds and they’re just weak as hell. what happened to the sky being black. they’re so light and sparse. i had to rewind to see the lightning they so don’t look like storm clouds. and i know if they completely covered everything we wouldn’t see the establishing shot of the empire state building but maybe pick a different one. instead of a top down, we look up, feeling small in the shadow of the gods, as storm clouds swirl around the empire state building, obscuring the top, storms obscuring olympus itself as it is plunged into war

“i don’t have an appointment” lmao

“annabeth is afraid of spiders” just stated. once again telling not showing. but i LOVE the analogy about big things squishing small, scary things. i love it a lot that was rly good

hilarious that percy’s necklace’s cord is so thick compared to luke and annabeth’s like it highlights how empty it is

idk how i feel abt olympus. it’s grand, as it should be, and i presume empty bc of the war (but like. Everyone is gone? nobody… stays to fight? or people who don’t fight but olymous is their home? they all leave? they all leave their home? would all the demigods leave chb? no?? the books literally show the demigods prepare for war towards the end of the series?), it feels ancient as it should, but idk if it feels… godly? divine? like it should be radiating. i’m not getting paradise vibes but i can try to justify it to myself with the war

OF COURSE HE IS?????? (reading this back idk what this references lmao?)

zeus does not feel asshole enough. i love lance reddick. rly i do. i am heartbroken he is gone. i would never have cast him as zeus.

still hate the kronos thing

“i surrender” regardless of my feelings abt the show or this scene or the implications this has this does still make me emotional

bitch he’s one 2 talk lmaooo LMAO AND POSEIDON SAID AS SUCH

enjoying the greek idk how accurate it is will have 2 ask bestie but we love seeing the greek gods speak greek of course

“obedience doesn’t come naturally to you” “no. sir” LMAOO IDK IF I WROTE THAT DOWN RIGHT BUT THAT WAS KINDA FUNNY

“the sea does not like to be restrained” YES!!

…sally taught him ancient greek? hm. idk. they’re erasing the way percy knew so little abt the mythical, percy and annabeth’s dynamic in the book is he’s out of his element in the mythical world and she’s out of her element in the mortal world. they need each other. this annabeth is very clueless abt the mortal world’s culture, but this percy just knows so much abt the mythical world, i am not getting the impression they need each other

“do you ever dream about mom?” killed me. im dead. im six feet deep im gone. the rest of these notes will be written from the great beyond

oh ok i guess the pearl works for that too?

thalia tree looking kinda wimpy ngl. why is it so. skinny and like skinny all of a sudden in its trunk and its branches so thin. they should be full and lush THIS is the magical tree protecting camp’s borders? created by zeus to preserve his daughter??

stoll brothers?? maybe? idk? two kids of a similar age who could be brothers, mistaken for twins, even, seen for like half a second?? i’m leaping already

THE HUG

oh so excited for this scene let’s gooo luke and percy yes yes yes my excitement for this was so much my mom got annoyed lmaooo

ARE THOSE TEARS IN LUKES EYES

RECRUIT??? OKAYYY THIS IS INTERESTING!!! IT GOES BAD SO HE PULLS OUT THE SCORPION??

also you’re trying to recruit him after you tried to kill him by sending him into tartarus?? lmao?

BACKBITER??? IS IT HALF AND HALF?? IDK I CANT TELL?? BACKBITER??

ok yea backbiter. miss luke’s introduction of it in the book tho. how its deadly to the moral and the mythical

loving the ambiance of the fireworks through the trees omg

“i met your dad” being the thing that sets luke over the edge yes yes yes this fight isn’t Incredible but the fight scenes in this episode are LEAGUES BETTER THAN THE PREVIOUS EPISODES

mixed feelings abt annabeth being there. i like that she got to hear luke’s betrayal first hand and obviously i like her defending percy but her being so hesitant abt luke is so important to the series. she had no hesitation at all. :/

also miss the scorpion. i do miss the premeditated attempted murder

we’re skipping all of percy’s stay at chb? :(( makes me so sad. but peep the new bead. wish we got more focus on that instead of it just being there we just breezed past percy’s summer at camp :(

“you are a leader in the eyes of your follow half bloods” no. No. NO. not until after the titan’s curse does percy step into the leader’s role STOP RUSHING THINGS, DAM(N).

OH WE JUST SKIPPED OVER ANNABETH DECIDING TO GO HOME?? WHAT ABT HER AND PERCY TALKING ABT IT?? WHAT HE SAYS IS WHAT MAKES HER SERIOUSLY CONSIDER IT RIGHT?? i can’t remember if the train scene was supposed to be that scene but what the hell

ALSO ANNABETHS HAIR YESSS I LOVE HER TO DEATH THATS MY GIRL!!!!! SHE LOOKS SO GOOD

GROVERS SEARCHERS LICENSE

SEARCHING THE SEAS YES THAT MAKES SENSE FOR THE CHARACTERS AND THE SEA OF MONSTERS SET UP OK

okayyyy trio being cute

theeee beach looks exactly the same? and the owners don’t lock the door? i get before maybe it was magically unlocked but the owners didn’t stop by? is it just magically unlocked again? (i guess. was it a dream?)

JACKSON REUNION STILL GETS ME

OH???????

lmao percy being sassy. well. ok no. he’s a little too confident. book percy even when he said bold things in the face of gods was usually a little scared still on some level especially in the first book we should be seeing some of that and why tf kronos just telling him his plans also idk if i rly like the grim reaper vibes he got going on

wait what

we’re skipping over their real reunion?? or was that real? what happened?

enjoying percy’s room tho it’s pretty close to how i imagined

they never explained the blue food as sally’s sign to percy she still has her sense of self, as her sign of rebellion against abuse. it’s just there. it feels like when the blue food became a fandom meme and it seemed to lose its meaning as a mother’s reassurance to her child that she was ok, she was herself, despite all the hell they’ve endured. now it’s just here. checked off on a list. tossed half-heartedly to book fans and horribly unexplained to new fans. ://///

SALLY DOESNT KILL GABE???????? SALLY DOESNT KILL GABE!!!!!! RICHARD RUSSELL RIORDAN JUNIOR. YOU FUCKER. YOU ABSOLUTE FUCKER. IM COMING FOR UR ASS, BOY. RICK??? DISNEY??? WHAT THE FUCK. THIS IS SOME FUCKING NERVE.

i. wh. this episode was pretty solid until this. i am devastated. how could they do this to sally. how could they do this to the story. just. how could they do this?? and for what? a joke? even in the movie where percy kills gabe it’s funny but it’s still INTENTIONAL what the fuck i don’t even. i don’t even know how to process this. i cant even say the wind has been taken out of my sails. my sails caught on fire and disintegrated. i am stranded in the middle of the sea with no sails at all.

[name-pending-i-promise]

Just finished PJO Episode 8 like 5 minutes ago, here are initial thoughts

Overall the show has definitely had its issues, but in all honesty I don't have a single major complaint about how it ended.

The fight between Ares and Percy was properly whelming. Got some water action and the appearance of some golden ichor was pretty rad

Olympus was pretty cool. It was a tad jarring going from not-asgard to a crumbling ruin but that was pretty easy to justify in my head (i just assumed the council chamber was built in the oldest part of the city and that's why it was so comparatively decrepit). Zeus was exactly what I'd hoped he would be. Not an outright villain, but egotistical and far too certain of his own strength and authority. Poseidon surrending to save Percy was a nice addition, imo it justifies the timeline shift.

I'm a little disappointed we didn't see more Hades but that's more of a "please show me more of this intriguing fruity man" thing and not a genuine complaint.

The conversation with Luke was nearly perfect I think. I'm glad he outright tried to recruit Percy. His book strategy of luring him into the woods to explain his entire plan and then outsource his murder was lowkey my least favorite part of the original book. I'm glad that it was more of a conversation and not just exposition.

Seeing what I think is Kronos's actual mortal form (albeit cloaked) was very cool. The double fake-out with Sally in the cabin was a little odd imo, but eh.

GABE IS DEAD WOOOOOOOOOO

Anyway book spoilers/future season spoilers under break

ONE IN-UNIVERSE YEAR (i think?) UNTIL WE CAN SEE THALIA!!!

Gods I can't wait to see her, genuinely. Her being 16 in the books never really stuck out to me, I always imagined her as having basically the same physicality/maturity as the other characters. Being an ancient being who has seen countless winters now (I think I was like 10-14 ish when I first read the books?), I'm thrilled at the prospect of seeing this 16-year-old punk pine tree trying to wrangle half a dozen children for an entire season.

I am curious on whether they'll retcon Ares' curse (when you need it most your sword will fail you), whether it'll happen some other time, or if they'll just ignore it. I don't remember it being super crucial to the plot so I wouldn't mind if they forgot about it honestly.

First appearance of backbiter letsgooo. I kiiind of wish they talked more about what it was. I don't mind it being able to open doors but in the books I feel like it's most defining trait was that it's a combination of normal steel and celestial bronze, meaning it can kill mortals. I feel like that immediately sets the stakes by telling you that Luke is planning to kill people, not just gods. I'm sure they'll address it eventually.

[midwesterngothicmomus]

Kronidaes = Sons of Kronos The dae is the plural of the ides meaning "child/son/descendant of"

Kronidai is also valid Then again don't think Norse would use Greek Terms. + Wow, Hades once again showed why he is Hades.... Why is your Sexy parts ruined with Persephone in this and Queen's story! Why! Like, man! Does Hades have much connection and people working with him!

Jord wouldn't care to call them the proper word. Frigg probably would but she wouldn't want to mention their father at all. Jord has met Kronos and her opinion of him is best summarized as unimpressive.

Hades is someone with a good amount of political and personal connections since he is the god of the dead and that requires a certain amount of cooperation with others and is also the person capable of reigning in his brothers. He also has a large amount of staff directly working for him in Helheim compared to the other two. Maybe I'll write an explanation of how the 3 realms' bureaucracy works at some point.

[winns-stuff]

LO RANT:

You know what I just realized? The rant I did for Persephone about her trauma can actually be said for Hades. I know what you’re thinking, “what are you talking about a big chunk of that section was speaking on how Hades’ trauma is treated better than Persephone’s!” which I’m not denying since I did state that, but I only really meant the Kronos stuff that Hades has been suffering through every other season. I’m talking about the relationship with Minthe and Hades.

Listen as much as I relate to and adore Minthe’s character I won’t ever lie or disregard that she was a shitty partner. They both were of course but no one has the right to put their hands on another person and shout all types of insults at them, no matter how much I hate Hades I’m not going to defend stuff like that. But with the presence of his very toxic relationship I think we were genuinely robbed of the effects that it had on him in the long run. We never got to see his thoughts completely and we didn’t get to see how it affected his everyday life, each time there was a toxic panel of Minthe and Hades we got transitioned to the next happy uwu romance scene like nothing ever happened. I’ve never been in a toxic relationship before but I have been through many platonic relationships that were utterly terrible, I know it’s not the same thing nor is it comparable but it’s the only thing I can really speak on that sorta correlates in some way. But toxic relationships, especially those that last a very long time, do indeed affect you and your behaviors you start limiting your emotions and stop doing things that the person you were in that relationship with dislikes. You change yourself entirely since you want to make something out of the scraps that they chose to give you and you’re forced to conform to their ways because you’re under this guise that they care about you and you deceive yourself by giving yourself the comforting thought that “they’d never do this to me” or “we’re friends/lovers so they didn’t mean it” or even “I deserve this treatment.”

These emotions and thoughts could’ve been easily explored during the Minthe arc since especially being a man and being a victim of mistreatment is rare in the media with romantic relationships. This could’ve been a great exploration of mental health issues with men and how getting their feelings and traumas validated should be respected and welcomed within our society, the things that Hades faced would’ve probably reflected that of other experiences that other people faced within similar relationships and it would’ve been a good door for representation for male abuse survivors. But sadly, all of that got overshadowed by the building and foreshadowing of Kronos and Persephone coming into Hades’ life to be the better woman and “heal” him instantly.

Did we see pieces of how Hades was effected by Minthe and the trauma it left him with? Yes, but the thing is we only saw it while we were gathering evidence for Minthe to be season 1’s villain and it felt like it was there for drama only. After Minthe slapped Hades and bruised him no one else should’ve put their hands on one another, I hated how this very serious moment got played for jokes and giggles throughout the comic when it’s obvious that the narrative was trying to argue against stuff like that. I don’t understand why Hades had to immediately be lovey dovey with Persephone as well, something like that happens to you I’m sure the very last thing you’d be worried about is a girl you met a few days ago that you started having feelings for. Maybe instead of that Hecate and Hades had a moment so that he could be properly comforted and talked to in a gentle manner (no I’m not saying use a baby voice or anything but just be a friend??) which would’ve been very powerful and empowering since a lot of men’s traumas do not get validated by others because of the “be a man” stigma. Showing people that men deserve to be sheltered and cared for like a normal human being, especially after something traumatic happened to them, would’ve been adding onto the theme of mens mental health.

Instead of that though we have Hades going over to Hera’s house and seeing Persephone after she lured him outside. Now listen, I understand that maybe he was trying to distract himself from the situation or even trying to forget about it in some way but throughout that whole time Hades never even mentioned or thought about Minthe. He got assaulted physically and a girl he barely knows keeps on touching him and getting close and personal without his content. It would be pretty stressful to deal with and it could’ve went to showcase how much damage this stuff does to people. Abuse is not just something you can forget about entirely to the point it doesn’t exist, you can try but like all trauma it’ll always be there and that’s what Lore Olympus gets wrong every time. They make something traumatic happen with the two characters and only ever validate it to either use it as drama, a plot, or to have a cute moment. And that’s entirely fucked up.

I don’t like how Lore Olympus used Hades being mistreated in his relationship as some one up. “I’m so much better than you because I don’t put my hands on people!” amazing I’m so glad that Persephone is a decent human being but why is that even in the whole “better woman” thing. It’s just weird how they’re using that as some crutch instead of giving the situation the respect it deserves. No one should be putting their hands on anyone and that shouldn’t be something that makes you better that should just be common decency. Same could be said with the whole Hades vs Apollo thing, it’s just depressing honestly that that’s being used as some sort of badge even though the comic should be trying to normalize it. These are normal things, no one should be doing any of that stuff to other people it’s sick and utterly deranged. Stop rewarding the bare minimum.

Anyways, that’s all I really have to say. It’s disappointing that it was used as a way to make a cute uwu moment and I hate how they glamorized it almost immediately after moving on completely. But I’m not surprised since it happens all the time.

[wandamaximoffappreciationblog]

Even more of my thoughts on LO…

So, I read 227 and also read some spoilers for 228. And it seems like we’re going with the jealousy angle with Hera. I really do love Persephone and I just can’t stand seeing this be used this way? I’m really not just saying this as a shipper either. Some people have pointed out when Minthe was jealous and it’s demonized but it’s okay for Persephone to do it. I also do think it’s hypocritical of her when she went after Hades when he was dating Minthe, as toxic as she is and she offered a date to Ares. I know she was just trying to get him off her back but…still. It’s literally over a nickname with someone he’s known for literally thousands of years. I also just think it’s weird that this is happening and in the Aphrodite centered chapter there were small hinting’s of his feelings towards Hera there with the dog he made her. I want to still love Persephone but like this is really making me think she’s not really that mature. I loved everything with Psyche and Zeus though honestly. I just think all this stuff with Hera and Kronos and then like the stuff with Persephone is gonna lead to like Hera either just being used as a jealousy tool or like dying? I really hope not. I’m also kind of like Persephone was good in the beginning but Hera has more layers to me and it’s just weird that it’s like Persephone has to be like compared to other women to be propped up or something. I don’t care that him and Hera had something either if a partner is trying to control your friendships you already have, that’s just not a good sign to me. It’s also odd because Rachel had said in one of the bonus chapters she was told not to like center Hera on Hades but I’m like there’s still a lot of centering that’s going on? And for it to be utilized this way is just…cliche to me.Glasses Hades was cute tho.

[zazzander]

Nico and Octavian – More Similar Than You Think

“I always thought you’d make a powerful ally. I see the ruthlessness in you, and I appreciate that. I can assure you a place in New Rome.” [Octavian to Nico][BOO 427]

I want to talk about how the two characters of Octavian and Nico are actually pretty similar. Obviously, they’re backgrounds have strong differences – Nico was homeless for quite a while, for one. Is an orphan (on his mortal side), for another. But beyond the obvious stuff, they become quite comparable.

How they are viewed by other demigods

We are all, I’m sure, familiar with the general distrust Nico invokes in others. As a son of Hades, he bears the weight of suspicion and even enmity. After the events of the original series, Nico is accepted by the camp… to an extent. It seems that they respect Nico and are thankful that he helped save them (and the world), but that doesn’t mean they warmed up to him:

He remembered how nice the kids at Camp Half-Blood had been to him after the war with Kronos. Great job, Nico! Thanks for bringing the armies of the Underworld to save us! Everybody smiled. They all invited him to sit at their tables. After about a week, his welcome wore thin. Campers would jump when he walked up behind them. He would emerge from the shadows at the campfire, startle somebody and see the discomfort in their eyes: Are you still here? Why are you here? [Blood of Olympus 154]

Now, we get less of an impression about Octavian’s treatment by the Romans but I think it’s pretty clear that he isn’t well liked…

“The camp augur we’re going to meet, Octavian, he’s a legacy, descendant of Apollo. He’s got the gift of prophecy, supposedly.” [Son of Neptune]

“Octavian has a lot of friends, most of them bought. The rest of the campers are afraid of him.” [Son of Neptune]

Her words had the intended effect. The Roman officers laughed nervously. Some sized up Ella, then looked at Octavian and snorted. [Mark of Athena]

Some don’t respect him (probably the same ones who don’t believe Octavian can see the future). Some people accepted him – but only because it benefits them (monetarily or via promotions). And the final group, a good chuck of the legion, they fear him.

The fear aspect is reminiscent of Nico.

Of course, Octavian has managed to forge himself a place within Camp Jupiter. His primary position is that of augur. Theoretically this is a position deserving of respect, like his status of centurion, as seen above Octavian does struggle to gain any respect at all.

However, that’s not the part that’s similar to Nico. Instead, it’s the fact that the post of augur is one Octavian holds alone. He is the only priest for the legion, and that keeps him away from the others. He works out on Temple Hill, physically apart from the others. That’s some pretty strong symbolism for how Octavian is ‘different’ from the others at camp. For better or for worse.

How they are described

Before I go further, I want to discuss the various descriptions we get of Nico and Octavian. Once again – the obvious differences can be set aside. Nico is short, with tanned skin, dark eyes, and dark hair. Octavian is blond, blued eyed, and tall.

What I want to discuss is the wording and the vibe they both give off.

First of all, their eyes:

Nico: He studied me, his eyes sharp and colourless, like broken glass. vs. Octavian: His eyes too piercing… [and] Octavian’s eyes glittered with harsh curiosity.

Basically – they have very strong gazes. The symbolism of ‘broken glass’ and how Nico’s eyes are ‘sharp’, is similar to Octavian: ‘too piercing’ and even the ‘glittering’ since it’s described as harsh.

But more important, there is a running theme for both of them of ‘physically unimposing, secretly a threat’. This is mentioned more with Nico, but the characters around him realised he is a threat. A several POVs in Heroes of Olympus don’t seem to realise this about Octavian.

But Octavian still definitely has this narrative.

To dig into this idea a bit:

Nico: as pale and gaunt as he looked vs. Octavian: Octavian’s face looked almost ghoulish under his white mantle…his checks too gaunt, his lips too thin and colourless [and] His face was gaunt.

Their paleness is even mentioned in relation to each other (bear in mind that Octavian is naturally pale, while Nico naturally has more tanned skin).

The kid was almost as pale as Octavian, but with dark eyes and messy black hair.

So you can see that the words: ‘pale’, ‘colourless’ and ‘gaunt’ come up often with these two.

Not only that, depending on the time period, Nico is sometimes described as looking sick. And, of course, Octavian is often described as such – since his physical and mental health declines throughout Heroes of Olympus.

Nico: He appeared anaemic and frail. vs. Octavian: skinny and sickly pale [and] unhealthy version of Will Solace [and] “you anaemic loser!”

The anaemic descriptor is a favourite of Riordan’s to describe several of his characters, but it’s still notable that both Nico and Octavian fall into this category (others include Hearthstone and, if I recall correctly, May Castellan).

Now onto the idea of ‘secretly a threat’.

Nico:

Nico wasn’t physically imposing like Sherman Yang. He didn’t have Reyna Ramírez-Arellano’s air of authority, or Hazel’s commanding presence when she charged into battle on horseback. But Nico wasn’t someone I would ever want as an enemy.

[and] Nico didn’t appear scary. He was skinny and sloppy in his rumpled black clothes.

[and] This scrawny white boy was no fighter… She had changed her mind about that quick enough.

[and] He’d met plenty of scary demigods, but he was starting to realise that Nico di Angelo – as pale and gaunt as he looked – might be more than he could handle.

vs.

Octavian:

At first, he looked harmless, but as he got closer Percy wasn’t so sure.

[and] “Afraid of that skinny little guy?” | “Don’t underestimate him.”

[and] But she knew Nico was more dangerous than Reyna, or Octavian, or maybe even Jason. [the important point here is that Octavian is in this line up at all]

[and] Octavian marched up to Nico. To his credit, the augur didn’t seem afraid, though his only weapon was a dagger.

(a personal side note, there’s also this description of Nico: Nico’s smile was a bit of winter sun breaking between snow flurries. ~ and it’s exactly how I would describe Octavian if I wanted him to appear more likeable. Like winter sun matches Octavian’s descriptions so well and I’m definitely going to steal it)

The Iron Knife

This topic is really more of a side note but I think it should be pointed out – since this is all about Octavian and Nico.

Octavian slid his iron dagger from his belt and threw it at the table, where it impaled a map of Camp Half-Blood. [BOO 65]

At least one of Octavian’s knives (yes, he seems to have several) is made of iron. I point this out because you might think this is a parallel with Luke. But Luke wielded a steel and bronze blade. Luke had this because he wanted to be able to slay mortals, who aren’t affected by enchanted metals, like celestial bronze.

But Octavian is fighting demigods – not mortals. Not only that, but the word is different. Yes, steel is made of iron. But if why not say steel, then?

Reyna is familiar, presumably, with Octavian’s weapons. And besides, she’s the daughter of a war goddess she would be able to tell the difference between an iron and a steel blade.

Now, my point, because there is an enchanted metal that is notably made of iron. Yeah. Stygian Iron. The same metal of Nico’s sword.

So if we read into the wording here, Octavian owes a Stygian Iron dagger. Whether this was a slip up or intentional, it does add to my comparison. After all, Octavian could just as easily thrown ‘his dagger’ or ‘his gold dagger’.

Their Usual Alliances

I’m not going to fill up this post with quotes from all the times Nico has made unusual alliances in the series. Especially in Heroes of Olympus and Trials of Apollo. Nico has connections with monsters above and below. He often calls in their aid, such as with the Troglodytes in Trials of Apollo.

Then we have Octavian, who is able to commission onagers from cyclopes and get ‘wild’ centaurs and cynocephali to join him in a war they really aren’t a part of.

There is even a parallel with Nico and Octavian’s relationship between them and their divine ancestor / parent.

Nico brings in Hades for the finale battle in The Last Olympian, having convinced his father he will be better respected and regarded for it.

Octavian convinces Apollo to work with him, specially to fight a war, having convinced his ancestor he will be better respected and regarded for it…

Yeah, the circumstances aren’t entirely the same but it’s undeniable these two can be very persuasive when they want to be. And they certainly aren’t hung up on if their allies are morally upstanding or not.

(I think it’s a ‘I’ll judge them for myself’ type attitude, but I’m not 100% sure for either of them)

‘Death’ Powers

While it’s never stated, Octavian’s powers are linked to disaster. And of course, with disaster comes death.

Thus – death powers for the both of them.

Nico can sense when his friends die. Octavian foresees how they will die.

And more to that, Octavian probably presents as a herald of doom for the legion, whether he likes it or not. Why? Well, we can divide Octavian’s prophecies into two categories: ‘incoming disaster’ and ‘personal prophecies’.

Example of the latter comes with Hazel’s curse / prophecy.

Stupid augur and his gift of prophecy – of all people at camp to discover her secrets, why did it have to be him?

So while we never get told example what Octavian saw, I’ve discussed before that I think Octavian learned about Hazel’s personal prophecy – how a descendant of Neptune would break her curse. Therefore, Octavian worked out that Hazel was cursed and it was pretty easy to blackmail her from there.

Octavian doesn’t reveal this information to anyone, though we do have the circling rumours and he is pretty loose-lipped around Percy, he is never explicit. He keeps her secret, well, a secret.

However, the next category is different. Octavian foresees at least two incoming disasters: the fight against the giant army & the war with the Greeks. For the first, he informs Reyna and they establish a plan. For the second, seemingly because Reyna dismissed his predication as hogwash, he revealed his visions to the entire legion.

So we can see that, generally, Octavian keeps the personal prophecies under wraps. But the incoming disaster prophecies get told. Therefore, it wouldn’t be surprising if people associated Octavian with impending doom – in the same way Nico is associated to death due to his heritage and powers.

Fatal Flaws

I’ve written at length about Octavian’s fatal flaw – which I’ve dubbed ‘wrath’. Yes, the books will try to convince you it’s pride, but I just don’t see it. Yeah, Octavian has his moments where he could use a bit of humility but he isn’t overly arrogant nor egotistical.

What he does do is get overly angry.

And what’s interesting that, at least a part of, his anger is directed at Percy’s broken promise. Which is, of course, is a major plot point in PJO with Nico.

Percy promises to keep Bianca safe, Bianca dies, Nico is outraged. He holds a grudge against Percy for a decent period of time.

Then we have Percy, who makes an oath to the legion, who promises to fight with them if things who badly – and Percy breaks that promise. Octavian is outraged. He wants to drag Percy and the others back to Camp Jupiter to have them face ‘justice’.

While we can’t know exactly what is going on inside Octavian’s head, because we so rarely get a glimpse, he does seem to be willing to forgive people.

he allows the deserters to return to the legion,

he makes alliances with monsters whose (presumably) sister-tribes warred against New Rome (if it was the same monsters – gods, that’s a big load of forgiveness right there),

and finally Reyna, who was a traitor to the camp.

So I have to assume that the main issue Octavian has is that Percy and the other’s made a promise to the legion, which they broke.

(I would cut out this bit, since all the deserters technically swore oaths to serve for ten years, but we know the legion doesn’t really care about that, since Reyna only served five-ish years and left to join the hunters. No one was angry about. Plus, people leave to go solo all the time and there doesn’t seem much hatred towards them or anything).

And this all connects to the ‘ruthlessness’ mentioned in the first quote of this analysis. Because both of them can be bloodthirsty–

Bloodthirst and the Desire to Protect

So Nico di Angelo features way too much, often involving him in fights, to go that deeply into his psyche. He’s in way too many books! So I’m going to focus on the finale of Heroes of Olympus, because we get his POV.

Starting with this quote,

Nico was itching to stab Octavian in the chest. He’d been dreaming of that ever since Bryce Lawrence had attached them in South Carolina. But, now that they were face to face, Nico hesitated. He had no doubt he could kill Octavian before the First Cohort intervened. Nor did Nico particularly care his actions. The trade-off would be worth it.

But, after what happened with Bryce, the idea of cutting down another demigod in cold blood – even Octavian – didn’t set well.

[…] It doesn’t seem right? Another part of him wondered, Since when do I worry about what’s right?

Nico longs to stab Octavian. He mentions dreaming about it (not sure that’s literal or not) since the encounter with Bryce. He then goes on to contradict himself, saying that ‘after what happened with Bryce’ he doesn’t want to kill. Then he starts questioning the mortality of it all. Basically, he’s arguing with himself.

He has blood of his hands – he’s killed Bryce Lawrence – and a part of him doesn’t care, hell, it even rejoices. He wants to do it again. He wants to kill Octavian, who is threatening his friends much like Bryce threatened Reyna. He is perfectly willing to die if it means taking Octavian down with him.

In the end, Nico doesn’t necessarily kill Octavian – but he does let him die. Nico’s morality loses that argument. And because it does against what Nico believes should be the ‘right’ choice, he fears Will’s response:

He hadn’t talked to Will since the battle. The Apollo kids had been too busy with the injured. Besides, Will probably blamed Nico for what happened to Octavian. Why wouldn’t he? Nic had basically permitted… whatever that was. Murder by consensus. A gruesome suicide. By now, Will Solace realised just how creepy and revolting Nico di Angelo was.

Nico’s mortality tells him his actions were wrong. Sure, no one else believes that to be the case, but that’s not really important when discussing Nico’s ruthlessness. Nico was there. It was Nico who considered killing Octavian multiple times by his own hand. Only Nico knows that, perhaps, if Octavian hadn’t died by that onager, he’d have died by Nico’s own sword…

Then we have Octavian, whose bloodthirst is obvious. Octavian is perfectly willing to kill everyone in Camp Half-Blood, he orders the legion into battle over and over again. He hunts down the Seven to bring them to ‘justice’.

Of course, this is led by his anger and wrath. He believes, ultimately, that he is protecting his people – the legion, sure, but also the people back at New Rome, which include innocent children. After all, Octavian doesn’t know the Greeks didn’t mean to attack them, that it was Gaea.

Octavian believes that his actions are justified – required, even. Because of the threat posed by the Greeks. And unlike a lot of the other characters, he’s merciless enough to act on that justification.

But it’s important to note that, like Nico, Octavian has a strong desire to protect as much as he does to harm. The most important part of this is the running theme in Octavian’s plans that ‘no Roman will die’. For more on that see this post.

Summary

All in all, there’s a part of me who sees Octavian as what Nico could have become if no one befriended him, at least, on a thematic level. Octavian is older than Nico, he’d been burned just as badly, but ultimately no one has stepped in to… well, love him. Nico bonds with Reyna, with Jason, and finally with Will over HOO & TOA.

No one does that for Octavian.

Apollo almost does, arguably, but we know how badly that went…

And that’s why, Octavian can look at Nico and say, “I see the ruthlessness in you, and I appreciate that. I can assure you a place in New Rome”. Because they are so similar. Octavian knows that this offer might just make Nico waver.

Will certainly thought it might, since he stepped in to interrupt Octavian so quickly.

Basically, Octavian is the Romans’ ‘Nico di Angelo’.

(And it would be really cool if Octavian appeared in the Tartarus book as a foil for Nico. A ‘past demon’ come back to point out Nico’s flaws and mistakes…)

[minthe-lover]

I agree with you the style can certainly be nice at times and when there is some actual effort, the composition can be good as well (tbh so are most of the Webtoons, I’ve yet to see one that truly has “bad” art in it) but here, at least, a few issues as to why the writing/art has fallen so rapidly (apologies in advance bc it’s long)

- the early style was, tbh, far more simple than it is now, but the lineless idea kinda bit it in the butt, since that seems to be the biggest time consumer art-wise. This could have been fixed with line art that is colored to their skin, or even just light lineart to begin with, especially as they’re basically using it now anyway. Tbh the lineless look actually makes it look worse in a lot of cases compared to the lined stuff. You can still get the same look as long as the coloring is the same.

- the cast is simply too big. If it were a limited cast (HxP, Zeus, Demeter, Hecate, Hermes, Thanatos, Minthe, maybe Hera and Eros/Psyche + Aphrodite and that’s it) then suddenly now everyone has a fairly distinct look, and now there’s more time to develop their relationships and stories and maybe have some cameos here and there, but that’s not the case here. There’s just too many characters to keep track of, and with the lack of color variation and same faces/bodies, it becomes even harder to tell people apart, especially the main character who by all counts SHOULD be the most distinct yet isn’t for ?? Reasons?? It’s not great Minthe is one of the few actual distinct characters and she’s one of the bad guys.

- it’s fairly obvious there’s no planning in involved. So many plots and characters are dropped and add at any moment: Kronos came out of nowhere and is taking up far too much time, Persephone’s act of wrath and it’s retcon via Eris is just stupid and tbh removed any true agency Persephone could have ever had, Apollo was a disgusting use of SA to push a romance along and was somehow fixed in a single therapy session, and much more. The HadesxPersephone myth is very ABC about how to adapt it and can especially be used well in a modern setting, but that’s not what’s happening here. It seems more like Rachel throwing whatever idea she has at the wall and whatever else is getting attention on Webtoons and being like wait, I can do that too! But that’s doesn’t show a sign of a good writer, it shows a lack of creativity and a lack of confidence. She needs a real break to actually work with her editor and make sense of all of this instead of ignoring them and trying to think up the next plot line to keep it going. You’d much rather try and scrap together a half way decent ending over dragging it along like it is now with no end in sight and no sense of direction. Sure, it makes her money, but it’s not going to matter when her life’s work is see as rushed and poorly made. The whole story doesn’t need to be planned down entirely nor does it needs to be Shakespearean quality, of course, but it’s not great you can tell she, along with others, are simply winging it. That’s not good.

- the art direction is all over the place and doesn’t make much sense. I understand The Underworld is so dark to where Hades often blends as sort of visual cue he belongs there, but then doesn’t that say Persephone isn’t? Since she sticks out so badly? The reverse can be said for Hades on earth, where it’s all pink for … some reason? The colors are also never consistent (you can eyedrop the colors to any random episodes and see Persephone especially changes color a lot despite no time passing nor light changes) and for some reason either far too saturated that it looks amateurish (neon needs to be used sparingly) or so desaturated that everything looks washed out, which combined has a visually unpleasant look with little to no visual harmony. Not to mention some of the visual cues are very strange and even off putting. Why does Hades and Persephone look like carbon copies to Kronos and Rhea, a doomed, toxic relationship and his literal parents? Why go on and on another how uniquely beautiful Persephone is yet have all the women look exactly like her, especially the nymphs and gene random underworld citizens than even Hades gets them confused for her? Why is there so much comedy out into what should be serious moments? What is there so much visual and written time making Hades and Apollo parallels? I could keep going, but I’ll be here all day.

Anyway, I have more to say but it’s getting too long. I’m not saying there’s not a lot of good in this comic, but there’s frankly too many art and writing issues that are both Webtoons‘ mismanagement but also self imposed by Rachel’s lack of planning and/or care that drags it all down.

Yeah I fully agree with you, don't know what else I could add. It's all some great points!

[problematic-faves-appreciation]

I'm sorry but I can't take the argument of "Hades preys on vulnerable women" seriously bc Hades in the flashbacks during the Titan War was 19, the same age as Persephone, and being in Kronos stomach for 13 yrs made him kinda naive and sheltered compared to Zeus in some ways despite being older. So I think Hades can probably relate to and sympathize with Kore in that aspect even though Demeter's a better parent than Kronos despite her flaws.

Another Hades/Persephone parallel! How did I miss this one? I would have loved to add it to my Persephades parallels post! In addition, they were both traumatized (Hades, a second time) at the same age, and their trauma still haunts them.

Excellent points, anon. Hades and Persephone share so much in common. It makes their relationship even more compelling.

Jeez. The people who think Hades "preys on vulnerable women" are mistaking him for Apollo.

If you ask me, all of the LO!parents are better at parenting than Kronos. Lol

[antiloreolympus]

10 Anti LO Asks

1. i keep trying to convince myself that this trainwreck of a court scene is going to end but every new chapter proves me wrong💀💀 there's no real suspense and the dialogue holds no weight like bro...?? it just feels dragged out

2. (TW: NSFW TEXT) i think true beauty discourse died down bc the kdrama of it was well received and fixed most of the comic's issues but lets play?? girl that whole comic is a mess and a half. just in the last few episodes it's doubled down on being racist with its black and asian characters with the creator mass banning ppl from its discord over it and even  showed an onscreen orgasm with NO content warning despite young kids being its biggest demographic. LP and LO are the real toxic OTP here.

3. Hermes says Persephone has the same thoughtful gaze as Athena. I get that it might have been a lie to appease Demeter, but like... That made me lose my shit LMAO

-----FP Spoilers/Mention-----

4. technically olympus IS heaven in greek mythology,  and its only for the gods and people they give godhood to. the concept of the afterlife in greek myth is not split into heaven, purgatory, and hell, and tbh unless you were especially awful in life you'd have a nice afterlife regardless, but idk wha to expect from a series that is hellbent (no pun intended) on being an american, christian-morality-following product over even trying to resemble actual ancient greek society and culture. :/

5. FP// the shades wouldn't need persephone to "save" them from eternal slavery if her precious uwu boss i mean future husband didnt make their afterlife and the underworld a slavery-driven capitalist hellscape. like seriously? he's the issue here in that regard, not persephone trying to relieve her own guilt. which btw her even admitting that shows her as only thinking about HERSELF, not the shades whose eternal afterlives are made to serve her future husband. this whole thing is so gross.

6. of course rachel sees the greek afterlife in christian terms. elysium is not "heaven", its the place for heroes and the deities' favored to go in death, with the asphodel fields being just as good but not as extravagant. let me put it in capitalist terms like LO would approve of: if elysium is the skyline penthouse, then asphodel is the brown brick townhouses. one is more lux, but they're both good. also according to hesiod kronos rules over elysium, so how is rachel gonna work around that, hmm?

7. No matter how dumb or whatever the Persephone-helping-the-shades thing is, how about we don't distort "white savior"? Like, leave it to the situations that involve race, don't blur the lines, words have meaning, you know. And don't go comparing white people to gods, even LO ones.

From OP: The reason the comparison was made also has to do with the classism/fantasy racism/slavery already present in LO. I wasn’t comparing white people to LO gods, I was comparing Persephone’s behavior to the trope itself but I see why it comes off that way. I’ll refer to it as her being a ‘savior’ though.

8. so .... uh ... is the implication now in 180 that even the best of the greeks are slaves to hades bc theres no "good" area for them to go to? like hades had the option to create elysium before this but never did bc he preferred to have them as eternal slaves? like this all just makes hades look even worse and doesnt help persephone look better, you know that right, rachel?? right??

9. Persephone is creating Elysium? Holy shit.... Holy. Mother. Fucking. Shit. This comic is literally insane.

10. does .. does rachel know elysium is only reversed for the greatest of mortals and heroes of greece? bc the shades she killed would likely not go there, theyd go to the asphodel fields with the majority of others. kinda weird rachel seems to be admitting she only sees the underworld as hell and a "heaven" needs to be created to counteract it when?? thats not how the afterlife worked in mythology??

[mushroomxfrog]

Why I'm disgusted by the Perry Jhonson movie-

Okay, so we all obviously agree.                                                                       Without further ado, let's get into this:

Let's start with the characters. Okay, Percy's design . For some reason, the actor looks so... un-Percy! He just doesn't give me the 'Percy' vibe.  Next, our girl Annabeth! i was so annoyed with her design. In the books, it's clearly given that Annabeth is BLONDE! Like seriously, come on! And Annabeth was just 'the badass love interest'... We didn't get to know anything about her, like she's afraid of spiders, and that her conflicts with her family, so we didn't have any sympathy for her. And Grover. I went mad on the spot and just didn't want to write this, because it actually broke my heart... Grover is supposed to be the cowardly,  thin, and can't really defend himself from school bullies. But as the series goes on, he's a loyal friend, and a caring person..Ooops, I mean Saytr. But in the movies, he's just comical relief, and he's portrayed as a ladies' man. And they made him a butt-kicking badass too. In the books, he's far from that. He hardly ever says something funny { That's normally Percy's job } , And he only likes the hunters cuz they're relater to nature. And as i mentioned before, he's NOT a badass. I think, if given the right person to portray, Grover's actor in the movie would have excelled at Grover's personality. It's just fucking stupid. And Luke, he was a monstrosity. Luke seemed too evil, even at the start, he's supposed to be using trickery. Instead, you can already know just by watching the first bit that he's the villain. In the book, Percy and Annabeth hold hope that Luke is under the influence of Kronos or something. But in the movie, Annabeth and Percy immediately just start attacking Luke. Annabeth always holds out hope that Luke can be reformed, and Percy , he still tried to reform Luke in the sea of monsters { Book } but he gave up in the titan's curse. Annabeth still had hope, cos she still had a soft spot for him.

Anyways, let's get on with the plot.

Okay, first of all, where's Nancy Bobofit? Nancy is a red-head Kleptomaniac girl in the start of the books at Yancy academy. She always annoyed Percy and Grover. And not to mention that Yancy is a boarding school. And i just seemed like they were in a hurry at the start. When Percy's mother died, we didn't feel sorry for him because we didn't see how close they were. That's why the Montauk beach scene was included in the books.

Also, how did Percy defeat Annabeth in Capture the flag, when Annabeth has been training for years and Percy was only there for a day or so?

Next, The war and the promise on the River Styx was not a thing in the movie , so Zeus and the other gods knew from the first. And Ares was a second antagonist in the books, and gave Percy a bag with a indirect link , so The lightning bolt would appear once they got to the underworld, and Luke being on the side of Kronos was revealed later . In the movie, the bolt was concealed in a shield that Luke gave Percy .The plot was just over all basic and boring, and they only included the main things.

And Hades was actually a Villain in this, which was just straight up stupid. Seriously, the first movie didn't even include Kronos. My little sister watched the movies with me, and she didn't read the books, so she didn't understand at all. And Percy only consulted the oracle in the second movie.

And they made the characters 16, so that the prophesy would happen when they were 20. This annoyed me.

And the next thing that  I'm going to address is the absolutely ridiculous thing that THE GODS COULD DIRECTLY HELP THEIR CHILDREN! Like come on. I liked that the gods couldn't do that, so we'd get only a vague message from them. It seemed more... Godly?

And The gods look horrible. They don't even look like Our leader described them. Where's Zeus's pinstriped Suit? All of the gods are in armor, and they don't look like themselves at all. Their personalities are different.

Hades: Any hope that it would be a faithful adaptation died when Hades revealed himself. I mean give the god a break. He's been portrayed as demonic and hellish in just about every script put to film. He's actually a caring father { iSh } to Nico when he appeared in the 'blood of olumpus'. And then somehow They switch to Kronos as the villan. It's lazy as hell.

Pesephone...  this part of the film is set in the Summer time, this undermines a huge part of Persephone's mythology, which dictates that she stays with her mother in the Spring and Summer; only spending the harsher months with Hades, and she isn't supposed to be so, Yk, Badass. And her having a crush on Grover is just.. Well, stupid.

and CHB IS NOT ON A HILL! It's just fucking stupid .And the sets of the best school ever { Hogwarts is in second place }are horrible, WHERE ARE THE STRAWBERRIES? The setting of CHB is described in the books amazingly, but here, it's just weird. And Thalia's tree was not mentioned.

And a lot of things were not here, but were mentioned in the second movie. And , there are many more reasons the first movie was horrible. But then the director , had the god damn nerve to make a second movie. Rick Riordan has made it clear he is not proud of how the movies turned out, and as such the fandom took his word and through their own experiences of reading the books and watching the movies, they can tell that it was bad. Rick Riordan even offered to write them a new script, but the idiot of a director refused.

The acting was a bit dull, it seemed like they weren't exited. Let's compare this to Harry Potter. The actors had a great time on set, and their acting was amazing.

People have said, 'Wow, the Percy Jackson fandom think they're so superior just because they read the books and they get all angry because the movie isn't EXACTLY IDENTICAL as them' But it's not that. While watching it, I felt disgusted, disgraced, and almost betrayed. It felt like they took my fragile, innocent, childhood and treated it like it was some beat-up barbie doll! It did no justice and everything was just WRONG!

the movies are good, if you haven't read the books. If you have, just avoid the movies. If you haven't read the books and are not planning on reading them, go for it. It's not bad. But note that its nothing like the books. So when PJO fans are talking abt PJO, don't butt in. You know nothing. And they will rip you to shreds like a Kindly One

Thank you .