#tmnt 2003 rant

[skullythefriendlyskullface]

I've been rewatching the 2003 TMNT series for the first time in almost 20 years and it kills me to see people complaining about Leo not getting a cool weapon from the spirit forge like his brothers did. Personally I would have cried if he had gotten a new weapon because guys.

GUYS.

This was his spirit forge.

For those who don't remember, the Foot ninjas not only ambushed poor Leo in The Shredder Strikes Back episodes, but they took his katanas. Leo's injuries were severe enough to send him into a coma and although he woke up from it in Tales of Leo, his recovery was not complete until the episode Monster Hunter. This episode mostly focused on Donnie and Mikey getting into trouble at the Jones' farm, but the subplot is centered around Leo's continued recovery.

And guess who was there to help him through it all?

Raph, who is considered to have a very combative relationship with Leo, was the one to stick by his side and help him forge his katanas. Those swords are not only symbols of Leo's resilience, but of the bonds of brotherhood. The scene where they forge the katanas together in silence is truly one of the most tender moments in the entire series.

And sure, Leo eventually used Gunshin after Karanji gave it to him and said that it truly belonged to him, but you know what? I think he was lying. I think that he trusted Leo enough to let him wield his weapon from the spirit forge and knew that Leo wouldn't take Gunshin from him otherwise. And maybe there was some pity there too, since Karanji was the last person to draw a weapon from the spirit forge before Leo's failed attempt. And sure, Leo wasn't gonna get a weapon from the spirit forge because how else were the writers going to continue the themes of Leo overcoming adversity and rejection?

But I personally like to believe that the spirit forge went out on its own because it couldn't offer any weapon more precious than the one he made with his brother.

[hibiscusbiue]

do you guys remember when i made that really long raph rant

raphs fear is the only one i am 100% sure on (being afraid of himself) and with the others i’m like. Jeez. Why do you three have to be complicated.

but since there’s nothing confirmed i’m basically clawing at scraps

because we KNOW leo’s fear it’s shown theoughbthe WHOLE show. his fear is failure, failing his brothers and letting them die or not being strong enough to save them. that was his ENTIRE season 4 arc, learning that he did all he could’ve done and getting stronger from it. the reason i say this is because in the first seeing of his fear splinter died and he wasn’t strong enough to save him.

donnie’s. i can’t be 100% sure. i want to say it’s somewhere along the lines of not only failing but watching people close to you die (sainw). the reason i say this is because angel Fell Off and Died in his

mikey’s i actually had a talk w my dad abt… i’m kind of unsure on this. hesitant to throw it out there incase the sharks get to me and eat me. BUT.

my dad said it’s his family turning on him and attacking him or leaving him behind because in his fear induced nightmare leo had turned to the dark side and attacked him

i think that’s true but also another route we could go down for mikey is being the sole survivor of his family (ahaha tlr reference jn my tumblr post? noo..) and i say this because as i was typing this out it struck me that mikey would have been the only person alive in his family. being the sole survivor and watching everyone fall down and being left alone to fend for yourself not only because you weren’t strong enough but also because you can’t change what happened to them now.

that makes the kanabopocolypse feel a little more ouchie .. yeesh

anyway

i’d LOVE to hear other people’s speculations. i over analyze little things and under analyze the big stuff so please let me know your thoughts..

[guawowow]

Going crazy thinking about the complexities of Donatello and his relationship with his emotions in tottmnt just auuaua !!!!

Like, he's outwardly and unabashedly kind in this iteration and I'm SO here for it !!! And it doesn't diminish his ability to be snarky and witty, he still throws jabs at his brothers, but I feel like this donnie is a return to form in the sense that the center of his character, the motivation for his intelligence and penitent for creation, is kindness- more importantly, empathy.

routinely he is described as thoughtful, 'non-threatening', and usually very placid; we see mention of his temper when his computers are messed with, but he's extraordinary patient- polite, even- with the killer robot chasing him, subway security, and the deaf conductor, all while under high-pressure stress. When confronting the Mechazoids for the first time, he keeps them at a distance and straight up complements the engineering ingenuity! Same when confronting bishop in the subway! He talks enthusiastically, respectfully, with her about her system setup! His first instinct is to diffuse the situation, approach her with humility and establish common ground. Dude like even when running away from the Mechazoid he was always thinking of the people around him.. he was telling everyone to get out of the way, waited for cars to clear (his brothers just straight ran through traffic and jumped over moving carsss), tried to usher people away from train cars he was fighting in, etc. And in the narrated recaps between episodes, donnie is the first brother to consider bishops motivations in an empathetic manner, "maybe she has a tragic back story". Of course that serves as thematic foreshadowing buy he was still the first to offer the kindness of reason to bishops character, maybe there's a reason she's doing this, not just anger that she is.

Not to mention he full ass built a robot to protect his brothers and took the extra time to program in impeccable manners. just for funsies heheh. eueueu Metalhead my beloveddddd😭🙏💙💙💙💙

ALL THIS and yet still, in episode 10, donnie considers himself non-emotional. He says he's 'all left brained' and implys that he operates differently from his brothers who he considers more outwardly emotionally expressive. And yet, in the same episode, he spends a majority of it comforting wingnut. He lends his ear and speaks to her kindly even when her panic exasperates their situation, he doesn't get mad when she freaks out, he takes the time to talk things through with her and make her comfortable whenever able. Even when they think Leatherhead has unmutated, he's sad but tries to put himself in her situation and understand her actions. HES SO SWEET IT HURTS DUDE ❗️❗️❗️ main point being, I dont think he considers himself emotional because he operates on a mode of empathy that is reason driven. He's emotionally logical, of that makes sense. It shows an INSANE amount of emotional intelligence and maturity, I just don't think he understands that because to him, this is logical, and his brother are anything but.

For a majority of his life, the only other people he has to compare himself to are his brothers. When up against anxiety riddled Leonardo, chronically angry Raph, and Mikey's carefree disregard, of course he sees himself and goes, 'ah ok. I must be less emotionally prone because I don't react like they do to these situations'.

I think he just understands the whole social song and dance of understanding better than he thinks.

I know the whole thing with tottmnt is the aspect of unreliable narration, but even then! Like if Leo wrote donnie like this then it probably because he routinely displays this kind of understanding behavior. Plus idk bout yall but I kinda consider the events of tottmnt as like a blurry semi-cannon? I think there are nuggest of truth in there, the broad strokes yk? Like the flood arc referenced 'the bishop situation' like it was a thing that actually happened, albiet in passing, and not just something to poke fun at Leo. It's got legs, there's ideas there to work with ajaja

[cnwolf-brainrot]

T-May-NT Day 16: Favorite Episode

OK, THIS WAS A HARD CHOICE because, favorite episode?? Of any TMNT canon??? That's a tall order and I had so so many that I debated picking... however, there's one episode that I would always choose to watch as a kid, one that I still adore to this day, so I stuck with it without thinking too much about all of the other choices I could make because then I would never be able to pick just one.

Turtles in Space (Part 3): The Big House, from TMNT 2003! One of my favorite episodes of all time, there are just so many little moments from it that made it a childhood favorite, and it still holds up so well rewatching it now <3

For some of my out-of-order favorite moments in this episode along with some of my ramblings, see below the cut!

I absolutely love Don's dorky little salute here; sweetheart you just got captured by aliens after surviving the vacuum of space, I don't think they're looking for a salute.

And then the fact that after the triceraton pushes Don both Leo and Raph immediately jump forward to defend him? PERFECTION, I love how protective those two are!!

"FLOOR WAX???" haha I thought that was so gross as a kid

These shock things are only used like twice in this whole episode. Guess who got it both times? So fitting for his character, honestly I love it.

*Giant muscled alien bully walks through the cafeteria* Raph (immediately): I'm gonna fight that guy Don (who already knows its inevitable): RAPH NO--

That's not exactly how it went but also yeah that's basically how it went

Also "green guy green guy!!" always cracked me up for no good reason

"I got a rock?" *visible brother judgement*

Also though this whole sequence shows all of the turtles so perfectly. The fact that they all looked at each other, knowing that they had all (well almost all) started thinking through and working out an escape plan, and then the subsequent way that they were each using something they brought to the table to form a plan (Raph timing the door, Don figuring out the smoke bomb, Leo putting it all together)? All so well done, I love this scene.

Speaking of which:

The fact that Don took one look at the floor wax through Mikey's vomit and said "I'm gonna make a bomb with a bit of dirt" is so hilarious to me. His little "I love it when I'm right" is also adorable.

Don't think I'm hating on Mikey, he was just waiting for his moment to shine! Seriously without him swiping that keycard they would have been toast.

The fact that the two idiots in the back literally forgot to make sure that their own plan was going to be carried out like come on guys

This moment.

And of course "SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOONS!!!"

I love this episode a lot, there's a whole lot more that I love from it but I digress; good episode.

@tmaynt

[cryinginthesewers]

God I love these boys so much they’re just little foolish turtle mutants and they’re ninjas, too

[microfeelings]

Finally, here late but still here! TMayNT day 1!!

Some of them are more into the pose than others... I couldn't just choose one Raph, come on, that's my emotional support red turtle, I love them all, even the ones not pictured here <3

Bonus because I can't not include my own iteration

I'm probably gonna do a couple more and I'm being generous here because I've decided it's a smarter choice to let my computer just rest (in peace)

[yzafre]

who wore it better – 2003 v 2012 episode comparisons

I said I wanted to do this in my 2003 thoughts post, and I’m gonna. I've been picking away at this for a couple weeks now.

I’m focusing on places where they actually recycled a storyline rather than adapted general concepts.  Fugitoid and the space arc is an example of the second method – Robot Scientist with a connection to a Dangerous Machine is a shared concept, but the stories are different.

“Ohhh how did we end up here we’ve GOT to figure out how to get home, our Dad might still be in danger” versus “we HAVE to collect the McGuffins before the enemy or earth is going to EXPLODE. AGAIN.” You know?

Comparing those types of adaptations could be done, but it’s not what I’m interested in here.  I specifically want to look at the places that made me think “oh, 2012 just copied this” while I was watching 2003.

Now, obviously this is extremely subjective.  So take this as me defending my nominations for winner in these categories, rather than some sort of objective truth.  I am presenting my dinky power-point on why you should vote for my favorites.  Ect.  Your preferences may be different!

My ramblings on the episodes got long (should I have split this into parts? maybe! didn't though), so uhhhh...

tl;dr: Scoring got weird at 3.5 to 2003, 3 to 2012, and two draws.

Key takeaways: 2003 better matches my personal tastes, and what makes 2012 good is the stuff specific to its iteration, rather than copying 2003

With all that taken care of, here’s my opinions, in very messy order.

Meet Casey Jones vs The Good, The Bad and the Casey Jones

So, this was the very first episode that made me sit back and go: wait.  This is just.  The same thing? 

Raph loses a fight, loses his temper violently over it.  He then goes out to get some air and runs into Casey, getting into a fight.  Raph goes back and apologizes to his brother, and then they have to deal with the Casey situation.  Eventually they’re friends.

That being said, they do handle things a bit differently inside of those plot points, in a way that makes me very split on which one is better.

So, this episode is doing two things: introducing Casey (at least to the turtles, in 2012’s case), and spotlighting Raph’s anger issues, and the shows handle both of them differently.  So let's look at them:

Raph and his anger

I want to start with the positioning of the episode within the wider series.

This is the 4th episode of 2003.  At this point, they’re still setting up the characters and your understanding of them – so this is really here to say hey, our Raph has a temper, that’s going to be a thing going forward. (I'm watching '87 right now, and while I've heard Raph gets more of his anger late in the series, at the beginning he is... not that. So signaling this for people who might have watched the previous show is valid.)

After this, I don’t remember there being other episodes that are Explicitly About Raph’s anger issues?  That’s not to say there aren’t any – there very well could’ve been some that were just so boring I don’t remember them, which would be a whole other issue – but what I remember of him being, to quote the show, a “hot-head” is integrated into other stories.

For 2012, this is nearly halfway through season 2, and is one of 3 episodes I can think of off the top of my head that at least start out framed as a lesson on Raph’s anger issues.  (The one with the guy that turns into a spider mutant, this one, and…. Okay so I don’t remember the details but I’m Pretty Sure I remember there being another one post-space arc).

Now, in theory this is good – having a sort of long-term journey recurring throughout the series.  In practice… eh. 

This is very subjective, but from the way the topic was constantly put on the shelf until they wanted to use it for an episode, to the way it was all extremely surface level and used mostly for jokes, it didn’t do much for me.

That aside, let’s look at the content of the episode itself:

Raph's anger issues have two different tones here.

2003 Raph’s snapping at Mikey is framed a lot more seriously – and a lot more dangerously – than 2012 Raph going at Leo.  And, accordingly, ‘03 Raph is a lot more horrified at his actions, whereas ‘12 Raph is more petulant, unwilling to fully own up to his mistake.

That carries over to when they’re “getting some air” - ‘03 Raph is blatantly angry with himself, where ‘12 is complaining about his brother’s not getting it.  I do think some of that frustration with himself is buried underneath, but it's interesting to note the difference between how aware of it they are. (Of course, ‘12 also didn’t try to brain his brother over the head with a metal pipe.  So.)

The two different versions also shifted what they chose to have “spelled out” versus implied.  What I mean is.... okay, so ‘03 had Raph explicitly say “What is wrong with me” – that frustration with himself I mentioned earlier – where it’s kind of buried underneath for ‘12.

On the other hand, ‘12 Raph flat out says he wasn’t angry, just “determined to win,” when explaining himself to Splinter, whereas with ‘03 the reasoning comes from Raph’s “You think you’re better than me?” line during the fight (and a bit of Mikey’s taunting, the menace), allowing you to (very easily, let's be real, I don't know that you can really count this as subtext) connect the dots on how it escalated.

So, that leads to their fight with Casey – where they both get carried away, before coming to their senses and questioning what they’re doing (and subsequently getting surprise-attacked).  The difference here is that ‘03, upon calming down, went back to trying to talk some sense into Casey (using the lessons he’s obviously trying to absorb himself), while to me ‘12 Raph just kinda seemed disoriented by it all?

Which. Fair.

Next step: the apology.  VERY different receptions.  The ‘03 brothers greet Raph with worry and care, and take his apology quietly and warmly, whereas for ‘12 they act like this is another Tuesday, a bit dismissive, and tease and taunt him through his apology.  I’m not trying to disparage the ‘12 turtles here – not exactly – more so observing the difference in tone once more.

When people say the ‘03 turtles feel older, I think this is a huge part of it – the ‘12 turtles’ behavior feels very “stupid teenager”.  And I mean that in a genuine, fairly affectionate way.  I remember being that age, I was dumb.  You don’t know how to handle all these strong feelings, you have no impulse control. Also around 2012 I remember being genuine being deeply uncool, so. But ‘03 are demonstrating a higher level of emotional maturity, compared to that, and it does make them feel older.

Anyways, after that you get the reunion with Casey, having very different tones.  ‘03 purposefully tries to reach out and rehabilitate help Casey get himself under control, whereas ‘12 diverges into a surprise attack by the Foot where Raph and Casey bicker their way into teamwork.

Overall, ‘03 takes a more... introspective? Approach to Raph’s anger, where ‘12 flickers between being slightly emotional and using the situation for humor or cool action scenes – it feels like setup for an arc that I never felt we got satisfying payoff for.

For my tastes, I think I prefer ‘03 for the Raph part of the episode, if only because it remains thematically cohesive till the end.  From start to finish, Raph is trying to impart the lesson he wants to learn to Casey.  With 12, it feels like the “Raph’s anger issues” thread got a bit lost/abandoned in building up the Raph-Casey dynamic.

Speaking of...

Casey Jones

I think ‘12 is the better Casey intro episode.  There, I said it.

I know, I know!  It’s not technically where we meet Casey, we already saw him interacting with April (also scenes I like), but... although having finished 2003 I think ‘03 has the better overall Casey (mostly because they give him like. Actual personal connections to the world), ‘12 has the better initial burst of character, in my opinion.

His little intro monologue is so stupid, and I love it.  The skates and the little taser-gloves he obviously put together himself (and the fact that we only got one episode of Donnie and Casey bonding over this kind of engineering is criminal???).

The initiative to follow Raph down, his reactions to Splinter, the entire subway tunnel chase scene, where his and Raph’s rapport is building up... it’s good stuff!  I like it!  Maybe there’s a bit less depth in some places – we don’t get the personal connection with the Purple Dragons, how it ties back to his family – but his character voice, his initiative and impulsivity, and his creativity all come through.

It’s such a shame they didn’t do more to add to his character throughout the series in ‘12, because he had a fantastic early showing.  But then, that series didn’t seem interested in doing that for any of their characters, to me.  Sigh.

But... just looking at the episode itself, I'd give the Casey have to 2012.

So... draw?  Great way to start off, I know.

Shredder Strikes Back vs The Invasion (or: Leo gets thrown through a window)

So, this is a tough competition, we’re gonna have to take this point by point, I mean -

2012.  It’s 2012.  Are you kidding me.

Okay, look.  2012 already has an advantage just on moving this from halfway through season 1 to the season 2 finale, but, I mean... come on.

With 2003, there was barely any build up with the Shredder.  We’d seen him sort of being in charge of the various villains since early on – but the turtles didn’t see that!  For them, he showed up, tricked Leo, Splinter gave some back story, they fought and then Splinter seemingly killed him.  It just... wasn’t that dramatic? To me??

So when you have Leo thrown through the window, whispering “he’s back”, I was just like... I see no reason for this level of dread.  It doesn’t feel that personal, or important, or.... anything, really.  I know 2003 came first, but having watched 2012 beforehand this was kind of a letdown.  Didn’t feel earned.

Now, 2012 on the other hand....

Shredder has been a constant, ever-increasing threat since the moment he showed up in Season 1.  It was already personal with Splinter, yes, but then he also became a subject of looming dread for the turtles themselves.  And it doesn’t come out of nowhere. 

Like, yes, we, the viewers, were aware 2003 Shredder survived, but otherwise he was just hanging out off-screen, doing who knows what.  He wasn’t on the mind.  2012, on the other hand, showed the way Shredder was slowly amassing power, planning for something.

And then you add the Kraang on top of it.

Like, seriously, making this a two-prong threat is. Mwah!  The boys are falling apart, stressed by the time-limit of the upcoming Kraang invasion, disagreeing on how to handle it.  And then the argument gets cut short by their home being discovered – they don’t even get a chance to choose their path together, because they have to run, and everything’s chaos, and they’re still focused on the Kraang.

And that’s when the Shredder comes in.

This is insult on top of injury with everything going wrong that possibly could.  This is an immaculate payoff to the set-up they’ve been doing all season. This is fantastic.

And when Leo is thrown through the window, you feel it – the dread, the horror, the regret.  It really feels like the breaking point of “we can’t take any more” that leads to them retreating.  It has a weight to it that 2003’s version was sorely missing.

When it comes to Leo getting thrown through a window, 2012 takes the win, hands down.  The stakes, the drama, and my investment are all so much higher than they were in ‘03, no contest, it’s my favorite part of ‘12.

What comes after, on the other hand....

Tales of Leo + The Monster Hunter vs Season 3a (or, the Farmhouse Arc)

Maybe it’s unfair to compare 2 episodes to 8 episodes.  And maybe this is diverging from my “only episodes that are directly connected” rule I stated in the beginning, but I need to get this off my chest.  Because I just.  I’m not impressed by 2012’s farmhouse arc. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Warning: rant ahead, this is VERY subjective and heavily based in my personal tastes.  Reminder that I do genuinely enjoy 2012, I just think the farmhouse arc is the lowest point in the whole series and is representative of what I find to be the weakest aspect of the series’ writing across the board.  That being said.

I see what 2012 was trying to do, by drawing out Leo’s recovery over all those episodes, giving the characters some space to breathe.  But they didn’t do it well in my opinion, and honestly the whole thing.  Flounders. 

2012’s best feature is its plot writing, how one episode tumbles into the next, Rube Goldberg machine-style, across an entire season.  But at the farmhouse, they’re removed from the greater plot, and that’s not doing the writing any favors.

And it’s not that the episode ideas are bad – I generally think they’re pretty interesting!  It’s just that without the inter-connected plot, they need something else to push them from “okay” to “exceptional”.  Usually, this would be where deeper characterization and relationship building would kick in instead, but uh.  I don’t personally think 2012 is great at that.

They under-cut the message of the episode with Big Foot, the Casey and Donnie friendship doesn’t really go anywhere after this, every other episode where inter-personal issues are only dealt with on a very surface level become even more obvious and a bit annoying without the greater plot to distract from it. Yes I know this is a kids show, but A:tlA had already finished airing at this point, also on Nickelodeon.

I think there’s a consistent issue with character writing in 2012 where they do what looks like set-up with no intent to ever give a meaningful pay-off or significantly change the status-quo, and that’s very much on display here.

And it’s not that there was nothing good in the season – I liked what they were doing with Raph, and how he was trying to help/encourage Leo, while somewhat bungling it in very realistic ways.  It was a fascinating look at what this Raph acting at his best as the Lancer trope could be, and I genuinely wish they leaned into it more later down the line.

Also, I’m always thrilled to see the Leo-April friendship get some focus, so Eyes of the Chimera was a favorite.  But across the board... the season didn’t wow me, and the longer it went on, the more I could see the cracks.

It all tops off with Vision Quest, which was my biggest disappointment in the entire series, the point at which I had to really stop and reset my expectations on what kind of story the writers were interested in telling.  The summary describes them having to go on a spiritual journey to really face themselves and their weaknesses, and I was so excited!  But then it was just.  Really surface level.  And occasionally confusing.

Raph needs to work on his temper, sure – but how is this any different than any of the other episodes about it?  Do we look at all at where his anger comes from?  A deeper way to handle it?  No, of course not.

Mikey needs to focus, stop getting distracted – I mean, yeah sure I guess.  Not a particularly interesting way of handling it, though.  Also, even if he manages it here, I know it's not going to pan out to the rest of the show, they’re not giving up their easy source of humor for the younger demographic.

And Donnie needs to... stand his ground? What?  I was so caught off guard.  It’s not that it’s completely out of touch, we see him coming up with complex paths to his goals, trying to think his way around of problems, ect, but... it was never really highlighted or presented as a real problem other than maybe the episode on instinct over thinking too hard?  It just felt really disconnected from anything else they were doing with him.  A genuinely interesting pay-off scene, with no solid set-up.

And Leo.  Oh jeez.  My friends.  WHAT is up with how they handled Leo’s knee injury?  The pain is just in my mind? It's not real??  Really???  No, thank you.

Like... I think this was supposed to be a riff on what Splinter says about ‘03 Leo’s coma, and him being trapped in his head due to fear – but because in ‘12 they tied it to an actual, specific physical injury, the execution falls apart. 

(Especially when they use the same flash-effect they used on Leo having issues with his knee of Splinter having issues later in the series but I probably shouldn't take that into account here.)

I mean, his quest is the closest to being satisfying, because they had lain interesting groundwork with his struggle with recovery and his insecurities in previous episodes, but then they just completely bungle it at the end! Argh!

I was so excited for Vision Quest, but this didn't tell me anything new about the characters or progress the characters in any meaningful way! It had no effect on how the characters are written going forward. So – other than some admittedly very cool fight choreography – what was the point?  Was there one??  It felt like putting on the trappings of an emotionally deep story without any of the actual, you know.  Depth.

I am clawing at the walls. Look at all the potential you wasted.

And yes, I’m aware this is all very subjective, and again part of a show for kids, but that’s how it hit me.

The 2003 farmhouse arc, on the other hand, was very short, and I think it benefited from that.  It had two episodes, and it knew what it was doing with both of them.  They felt purposeful, in the larger arc of the story.

First episode: they make their way to the farmhouse, Leo’s in a coma (according to Splinter, one driven by his fear), and his family tells stories of when he was brave/strong as a little kid to try and bring him out.

Wonderful, amazing, I love this episode.  So much character work – both in the past and present!  By going back to when they were kids, it helps us contextualize the turtles’ relationships by making them simpler.

In showing early memories that probably started cementing their views of each other, we see the core around which they developed.  By seeing which memory each brother chooses to present, we get some insight into how they each see Leo.  It gives us a point A to our current point B, which allows us to extrapolate the line between the two, how they developed.

And then you also get the little moments of how the brothers are handling this catastrophic event, how they react to the stress, to seeing their brother so hurt – Raph especially!  It’s pure character work and I love it.

After that, we get one episode of shenanigans, which is both representative of that “space to breathe” after Leo woke up, and also gives space for the B-plot (which is the truly arc-important plot) of Leo, now awake, dealing with his own handling of this stressful situation.

Is the A-plot of this episode quite as good as some of the ideas for the 2012 episodes?  Honestly, no, but just the fact that it’s carrying the Leo recovery story pushes it ahead.  We see Leo struggling with his failure, Raph stepping up to herd him back on the right track – the idea of physically remaking his swords to remake himself!  And, though we don’t know it yet, how hard Leo takes this is great foreshadowing to how he reacts going into his season 4 breakdown.

And then, having done the character work they wanted to accomplish, the writers go back to the main story.  The characterization here matters (and also is good) in a way that whatever is going on in the 2012 farmhouse arc just.  Isn’t. 

In my opinion.

Okay, rant over, winner is obvious, moving on.

Triceratons

Again, we’re not comparing most of the space arcs, as that’s apples to oranges, but there are two episodes that caught my attention:

Rogue in the House vs Dinosaur Seen in Sewers!

Here we've got two episodes where the turtles find a Very Confused Triceraton and trick him into helping them.

I like the 2003 one better.

Honestly, it comes down to the context of the episode.  Rogue in the House comes after the turtles have been in space and when they know more about who the Triceratons are.  2012 on the other hand is a sudden introduction to a new arc.

2003 also... questions the ethics of their decision more, by the end.  It’s a bit more empathetic?  And I appreciate that.

I will give 2012 credit that translating “we’ve been dropped into the middle of a war where both sides are bad” over to be attached to the Kraang, which they’ve built up already as a powerful alien threat, was clever.  It doesn’t have the same edge of commentary that “and one of these sides looks just like us humans” has, but it is clever use of their existing world-building, and I like it.

The Arena vs The Arena of Carnage

The most obvious connection in the 2012 space arc – the turtles get thrown into a gladiator arena.

Now, 2003 does have an unfair advantage in this comparison, as The Arena is heavily bolstered by the set-up work done in The Big House, giving you a sense of place, stakes, connection to the other characters...

That last bit is where my bias and personal taste shows: I really love the turtles making any kind of meaningful connection with other characters, and I find this more convincing in the 2003 version than the 2012 one.

But 2012 also weakens itself in its own right by doing some setup here with no long-term pay off.  You’ve got your fellow prisoner, who turns out to be a Triceraton who objected to the leadership's decisions... and after this episode, that means nothing!  Cool, okay.

Like I get that was a part of the episode they’re pulling from, but if they’re not planning on reusing that long-term story, then they really could have cut that aspect all together.  I know they have enough creativity in them to adapt the concept of “stuck in a gladiator arena” to do something more interesting, they’ve proved they have it in them.  They just... didn’t, and the plot point didn’t translate well.  Ah, well.

2003 also wins this one.

City at War vs... City at War?(???)

Look, I am only comparing these because they use the exact same name.  Otherwise, it’s nowhere near a fair comparison.  For 2012, this is actually part of a couple episodes where they talk about there being a power vacuum after the Shredder is out of the picture, but...

Can we be so real?  They don’t even get close to the scale of 2003.  Like with the farmhouse, it’s not that they don’t have any good ideas – I like the Don Visioso episode quite a bit – but it never gets to the depth or scale I want it to. 

Like, 2003 made it visually obvious that the city is falling apart, that things are really out of control, in a way you can feel. Though, honestly, I’m not even sure 2012 could reach the levels of 2003, because they never put as much effort into making their NYC feel... real?  I guess?

Also, the 2003 City at War arc is just.  It’s really good, guys.  It did such great work on Leo and Raph’s characterization, the danger in the city is palpable, the tension is thick, and then you add Karai on top of it all?

You’d think 2012 could push this, given the added dimensions to Karai and her connection to Shredder, but it ends up falling short.  Point again goes to 2003.

What a Croc! Vs It Came From the Depths (Leatherhead)

So. I am painfully biased, because It Came From the Depths is my favorite 2012 Mikey episode, and I thought What a Croc! was... just okay.

I frequently bemoan that 2012 didn’t lean more into long-form character arcs for their story, and this is one of the central episodes that defined my desire for Mikey’s arc.

The instant compassion and understanding he has for Leatherhead – the way he recognizes and is willing to work with his trauma responses, but also is childishly impatient with the process when it gets messy later on, showing he still has some maturing to do – it's great, and I love it.  I didn’t find the same kind of depth in the 2003 episode.

On the other hand, long-term I like Leatherhead better in 2003, just because he’s more present as ally, friend, or even family.  2012 Mikey’s always excited to see Leatherhead, but you don’t exactly see them hanging out.

But this is about the episode, and for that, I’ll give it to 2012.

Renet (Time Travails + Return of the Savanti Vs Turtles in Time + Tale of the Yokai)

I’ll be real with you, 2003 gains points with me just because this is another example of 2012 poorly shoving in romance. I would like to make it clear – I don’t have an objective issue with the turtles being in romantic relationships.  It’s just... don’t put it in there if the writing's going to be so... bad. And boring. And unnecessary.

Additionally, this particular example put me off a bit more because... hm. Okay, the episode starts with Mikey going “I'm never gonna get caught up in all that!" Only for the show to do the writing equivalent of saying "of course you will, as soon as the right person comes along. And here she is!"

And uhm.  Okay, so, I’m asexual with a big ? when it comes to romance.  So that framing is..... nghghghgh I don't like it. Like I get the joke, but it still gave me the ick.

Also it was another infatuation-at-first-sight situation like Donnie which. Is a romantic trope that is So Stupid, you CANNOT tell me that's how it actually works, I don't believe you, and also it makes for stupid, boring writing. So there.

Ahem.

Once you get past that, there’s points to be made for both episodes.  The way the 2003 turtles find Renet just kind of tiring but can’t help going along with her anyways is very funny to me, but 2012 lets them do Tales of the Yokai, and I enjoy the concept of them getting to see what Actually Happened Back Then, rather than just hearing subjective stories of it.  Adds some texture.

I dunno on this one – if it’s Time Travails vs Turtles in Time, 2003 wins, but once you move on to Tale of the Yokai I give it to 2012.  Call it a draw?

Loosely inspired by

Okay. So. These are things where I can’t say “Oh, they were just doing this story again”, but where I think there might have been some heavy inspiration.  Your mileage may very on these, and you could think I’m completely wrong, but I thought they’d be interested to talk about.

Even if they are from Back to the Sewers.

The Engagement Ring to The Power Within Her

April gets magic jewelry that possesses her, goes on a rampage?  Admittedly, the set-up is very different, as is the tone, but... well, you have to wonder.

I thought The Engagement Ring was one of the better episodes of Back to the Sewers, but as entertaining as it was, I’m still going to give this to 2012, I think.  I like things that have more build-up to them, and they did pretty good at setting up this episode ahead of time, building up that dread.  And it just did more with the concept, you know?

Also, it fit well into my interpretation/re-write of April’s character, so.

Identity Crisis to Brain Worms

I mean.  Turtles get brain-washed by the Foot, have to be broken out of it by being reminded of memories/who they were.  Methodology of the brainwashing is very different, admittedly, which is why I put this down here rather than in the main section!  But it’s similar enough for me to connect them.

This is another situation where I think 2012 took a concept and further developed it.  The brain worms are fantastically gruesome, and really treated like the existential horror it should be.  The amount of fics I’ve seen expanding on the brain-worms concept is proof of how it hooks in people’s brains.

Another point to 2012.

Conclusion

So let’s run a tally.

I'm not sure the two Back to the Sewer episodes count, but I also maybe have broken my rule on the farmhouse arc... I guess we could count those as half points?

Casey Intro: Draw

Window: point 2012

Farmhouse: half-point 2003

Lost triceraton: point 2003

Gladiator arena: Point 2003

City at War: point 2003

Leatherhead intro: point 2012

Renet: Draw

Losely inspired: cumulative point 2012

So that's... 3.5 for 2003, 3 for 2012, and two draws? Pretty close.

Realistically, I think these should be the two takeaways from my opinions:

First, 2003 better matches my personal tastes. I'm a character arc girly, and 2003 gave a lot more attention to that aspect of their writing than 2012 did, and that affects my opinions. See: the Vision Quest rant.

Second, what makes 2012 good is the stuff that’s specific to its iteration.

The way they adapted the Hamato Yoshi backstory from 2003 to be about Splinter and Shredder, making Karai Splinter’s stolen daughter, and how that whole plot line plays out.  The way they make the Kraang a whole organization, and their alliance with Shredder.  The full season, Rube-Goldberg machine buildup of plot.  These are all the thing that make it excel.

So... yeah. That's my thoughts. Your opinions might be different, and - if you're nice about it, please - I would love to hear your thoughts on what I've said, which episodes you like better, and why you like them! Shows hit different people, well, differently!

[bicryptide]

Pov : you are a TMNT fan

[i-am-a-living-god]

87 Raph is your fav I get that he’s hilarious. I am curious about your opinion what your general thoughts on other iterations of him?

Omg I love all Raphs!

03 Raph is super fun, I love how his anger is handled. And he's such a chill Raph. Though I am a bit sad that he got his entire arc in the first season and got a bit sidelined after that.

12 Raph is also super fun, he's my second favorite 2012 character, (after Leo, sorry Raph.) I love how short tempered he is. He's actually the voice of reason in most cases, which is really interesting to me.

Idw Raph is just awesome, I don't really have much to say considering I only read the first 2 volumes. He has a strong sense of justice, and strives to do the right thing. He's figuring everything out, he has a family, and he's so stoked about it. He's just such a happy Raph. And I loveee how his anger is a parallel to splinters. Something that's unique to him specifically is that he only really gets angry when he defends his friends and family. His anger is very much tied to his sense of justice.

Other Raphs usually get angry when they feel mocked or inferior, but idw only really gets properly angry when his family is getting hurt. I'm specifically thinking about when he tried to murder Casey's dad and splinter adopted Casey. That was probably one of my favorite idw scenes, when splinter held a weapon to Casey's dad's throat, almost killing the man just to bring Raph to his sense's. The running theme of Raph being the most like splinter is so fucking interesting to me.

The thing about 12 Raph is that he's exclusively angry when he feels inferior, or mocked. Whenever his bros are in danger he doesn't tend to get angry. He usually gets really worried and concerned. Sometimes he even freezes up.

2012 Raph is constantly frustrated, and he doesn't know how to express those emotions in any way besides anger. And when he does lash out he's told to suppress his emotions, leading to bigger outbursts later on.

12 splinter has very weird ideas of how to raise children, an it makes sense considering how he was raised. But I feel like it's quite damaging to Raph and Mikey specifically. (I won't be talking about Mikey, this is about Raph.)

Raph doesn't have a healthy way of dealing with his frustrations, so he channels it through anger. And the only advice he gets about his anger is suppress it more. Which doesn't work cause he isn't just angry all the time, anger it just a blanket covering up what he's actually feeling.

I don't have anything to say about Bay Raph. Hes got no thoughts, brain empty.

I don't have the energy to dissect 07 Raph.

I don't really have much to say about rise Raph, the fandom has already said anything I could possibly say about him. Idk he's nice I guess, I do like him a lot, I just take him at face value. I haven't watched the show in a long time, though I remember that I really liked him while I was watching.

I won't mention 87 Raph cause you asked about everyone except for him :3

[tblsomedoodles]

Ok but Casey finding a little turtle boy and taking him home like,

"Mommy! I found a turtle!"

"That's nice sweetie."

"He can talk!! He lost his family and he doesn't know where his daddy or bubbas are! Can we help him?'

"Wait, what!?"

lol! Pretty much! I've said it before and i'll say it again, I love Casey's mom (Mrs. Jones. I wish she had a cannon name in 03 damn it!) She gives no shits and takes no shit. She is awesome! (in cannon, her first reactions to the turtles was to catch Splinter and Leo sneaking around without them noticing and just...continue doing whatever she was doing almost completely unphased. The only way we know she saw them was because she eventually mentions to Casey that “You don’t have to tell me now, but one day I would really like to know the story being the big rat and the giant turtle.”)

I also think that, for this at least, Mrs. Jones is a Lawyer. B/c 1, she's got that vibe to make it work, and 2, I'd imagine they'd need one to make sure Donny got legal citizenship and what not. (also just because lil donny bragging about his mom being a lawyer would be very adorable lol)

But yes! she would definitely be a little shocked her eight yo kid came back with a turtle shaped toddler. : )

THank you!

[fabuloustrash05]

I hate Raph x Casey (all version)

Shipping them ruins their iconic friendship and dynamic that has been know for years. I’m all for friends to lover but we don’t need to force it in EVERY SINGLE bromance!!

Why can’t two guys just be good friend without anyone forcing romance between when it’s obviously not there and they made it clear in canon that they’re both into other people/in happy relationships (talking about you 2003 & 2012 r@sey shippers).

Just because two people are close and really good friends does NOT mean they are in love/are going to fall in love. (Same thing can be said about Rise Donnie x April).

If you’re offended, then keep scrolling. I’m not in the mood for a pointless argument. I just needed to rant. Also if you ship them then good for you. I don’t hate you, I just hate the ship.

[weregreatatcrime]

Fuck it In making Splinters have rat issues

Rise!Splinter is blind. Legally, awfully, rat-vision blind. He is permanently squinting because he can at BEST see swashes of color. His clear vision range is about a foot. This is why the color names, he couldn't tell them apart at ALL from a distance until he had something bright and eye catching attached. His ears, whiskers, and tail make up for a lot of issues vision that bad causes, but he still has to sit like a foot in front of the TV with giant fuckoff glasses that don't really do much. He can't use the glasses unless he's sitting still because they're so magnified he Will trip or throw up. There's no prescription strong enough for rat eyes

2012!Splinter has issues with his teeth and lungs. He had a lot of trouble in the early years not knowing how to care for his teeth properly and trying to ignore the rat instincts to brux/chew. His teeth got nasty overgrown and painful for a bit and trimming them back is such an unholy awful sensory HELL that he decides to just be a rat and avoid the trimming. He chews on things all the time and allows himself to brux (angry rat chewing, where they grind their teeth, it means they're either Very happy or Very upset) because anything is better than having to take dog nail clippers to your TEETH. Dignity be damned, he will find chunks of applewood or pear wood or ANY possible substitute to chew on before having to trim his teeth. He also has had several health scares where his lungs got very sick. Domestic rats' lungs are their kryptonite, and he was not expecting the close quarters with him and four infants in a cramped nest to cause him to basically get URIs every other month. (I refuse to believe he was a wild rat. Those pretty markings are PEAK domesticated rat marks) Mans had to come up with an herbal remedy to breathe in or he'd just be constantly Suffering wheezey coughing hell. His vision is Also probably a bit worse

2003!Splinter has the least issues just because he was a rat First, so he's used to rat things. But he likely has a lot of issues with his coat and his joints. Can't groom properly anymore, because he's still very flexible but not nearly as much as he used to be, and some rats can go into shock if you surprise them with too much water. (I say most, as my patchwork rat and double rex would find the nearest stream of water and quite literally take a shower with it) He hates water and how heavy it makes his fur, but having kids means frequent bathing.... his poor fur likely has had issues with mold because he struggles to dry it all the way through. He has a lot of joint issues as he's kept a lot of the shape of rat limbs but the posture of humans and that's Not Great, plus he was old to begin with and his old man joints got Permanently Old Man-d. Also definitely got BETTER vision with his mutation, which he appreciates, but he was hardly a Normal Rat beforehand bcz I refuse to accept "showmakers knew nothing about rats" as an excuse for their weirdness in 2k3

[imagionationstation]

*watching The Fantastic Four* (2005)

Dad: (Referencing the Torch) “I don’t get how anyone can like movie jerks.”

Me: “He’s not a jerk???”

Brother: “You heard him insulting them, right?”

Me: “He’s teasing affectionately???”

Other bro: “He’s being a jerk.”

Me: “You guys literally say the same stuff???”

Brother: “We’ve never said any of this!”

Me: “Because no one we know is a giant rock monster???”

Other broski: “You know what we mean!”

This naïve outlook of smart-mouthed/fiery tempered people act like themselves around people they know so clearly they must be jerks drives me nuts. There’s a clear friendship. There’s obvious little brother pushes buttons for attention vibes. Torch teases and pokes the bear- but he also shuts his mouth when he realizes that making comments about The Thing weighing down the elevator would genuinely upset The Thing.

This is why most Raphaels- ESPECIALLY 2012Raph- get such a bad rap. People can’t seem to look past the negatives and see the caring, protective, affectionate, if not insanely reckless, person underneath.

Who cares if Torch drew away a heat-seeking missile to save The Thing and Invisible Girl? Who cares if Raphael wouldn’t hesitate to risk his life for any of his brothers?

They made a few mean comments! Permanent jerk stamp it is!

[hibiscusbiue]

so i was talking to my friends on google chat but honestly i thought i should repost this entire rant

raph in the 2003 tmnt is one of the more complex characters on the side of the spectrum, while his trauma is all the more real when it comes down to it. his character is relatable in ways that are difficult to see on a surface level, because his surface level character is "angry hotheaded but caring when he is alone with his family"

in reality, DESPITE how aggressive raph is in the first season, it mellows out as the seasons go on. though honestly i think it shouldve increased but whatever

like i mentioned in mikeys rant, raphs biggest fear is himself. in the horror episode i mentioned earlier when theyre kidnapped and put into situations where they have to fight their greatest fear, raph is faced up against the shredder. on a surface level analysis, this seems like "raph is afriad of the shredder", since you know, that would make sense, shredder did almost kill them THOUSANDS of times. though, when raph knocks off the shredders helmet, we see things begin to fall into place and make a lot more sense then before, when it was just the shredder. because underneath that helmet theres his own face, with red eyes, laughing manically. raphaels greatest fear is himself.

and this all checks out. in s1 e4, raph literally almost bashes mikeys head in with a pipe out of anger. he almost KILLS casey out of anger. in other seasons, his impulsiveness has almost gotten them all killed thousands of times. his greatest enemy, his greatest fear, is HIMSELF, because he knows that one day they wouldn't be so lucky. one day someone would get hurt, and it might be because of him. one day someone he cared about was going to die, and it would be his fault.

his insecurities make his anger all the more humane, all the more understandable and relatable. because he's not just angry at his siblings when they push his buttons, hes not just angry at the world for treating them the way it treats them, he's angry at himself for failing to protect his only family, the people he was born and destined to protect.

thats why when mikey almost dies, or even jokes about dying countless times, raphs "tough boy" demeanor collapses. when leo is critically injured, raph fumbles over his words, and he gets angry. he gets incredibly angry at himself and takes it out through his words, saying "who needs him" about leo while hes crying. and thats because hes angry at HIMSELF, he's angry that he brushed off leo being out for hours in the cold rain, he brushed off how long leo was gone, and he failed his brother.

leo and raph arent that drastically different, actually. they get angry at themselves when they fail their family. i think the only big difference between them is that leo is calm and controlled, while raph is like a fire in a sense. also that leo got therapy and he didnt lol

i could be entirely wrong and just over analyzing every single little thing but idk. raph is my little blorbo

[cnwolf-brainrot]

03 Turtles - Greatest Fears

At least, as sourced from season 3, episode 14: The Darkness Within. I rewatched this episode, where the turtles are shown some of their greatest fears through hallucinogenic visions, and I decided to hyper-analyze the scenes to a friend of mine who doesn't watch TMNT so now I'm throwing these thoughts here as well. Simply put, these are the visions the turtles are shown: Leonardo: the death of Master Splinter Donatello: the death of Angel (who they were trying to help on this mission) Michelangelo: Leonardo turning against him Raphael: himself as the Shredder

As for why each of these are extremely important, I analyze them under the cut~

Leonardo: Leo holds Splinter's praise so much higher than his brothers do. Leo is the eldest child, the leader, the good student and the role model. He strives to emulate his father in all that he does. However, Splinter's death isn't some distant fantasy that Leo could never imagine; it's a real, stark, bone-deep terror that Leo carries. He's seen Splinter on the brink of death before. They all thought they lost him for a bit during season one. Leo knows his father isn't invincible, and that is TERRIFYING to him. He's the one who his brothers look to for guidance, and Leo looks to Splinter... without his father, EVERYTHING falls on his shoulders, and is he strong enough to bear that? This is further proved by the fact that in the vision thing Leo sees, Splinter rescues him before he dies; he looks to his father for guidance, security, everything... having to lead alone is his greatest fear.

Donatello: Don gets like twenty seconds of screen time and that makes me mad, but what he gets is important. Out of all of his brothers, his is the only vision that's focused on someone other than direct family. Donatello is a people-focused character; he goes out of his way to help others, and constantly throughout the series we see how empathetic he is. It doesn't matter if the focus of the episode is helping a dear friend or a stranger; Donny is the first in line to help. Moreover, he takes every single life they touch personally. This is seen specifically through how he keeps a bond with the homeless population of New York (seen in multiple episodes), how he witnesses the loss of April's neighbor Kirby, and how he spends months trying to find a cure for people who were experimented on by the Shredder (seen in the Underground episodes) even after his brothers have all but forgotten about them. Don is quick to protect people, and when he does he takes every single failure to heart. Failing someone he pledged to help is his greatest fear.

Michelangelo: Mikey seeing one of his brothers, particularly Leonardo, turn against him shows so much of his relationship with his brothers. Mikey's the annoying one, the goofball, the one the others are always teasing to the point its almost mean... but every single one of them would jump to his side in an INSTANT if he was hurt. This isn't just something Mikey "knows", it's something he SEES. Every time Mikey is in trouble, or -- God forbid -- an enemy makes the mistake of THREATENING Mikey, his brothers come out in full force. I can't even reference specific episodes here because it's throughout the WHOLE SERIES. Mikey knows he's annoying, and he knows he gets on his brothers nerves sometimes. But one thing he never has to doubt is if his brothers would be by his side... that is, until they're not. If there's ever something that would push his brothers far enough that they're not there with him, then what would he be left with? His brothers turning against him is Mikey's greatest fear.

Raphael: Raphael. OHHHHHH Raphael. The second Raph's was reveal was the second I decided I needed to type out this rant. At first his is simple; The Shredder walks out and attacks him. Raph fights back, as he always does, but eventually the helmet is knocked off and the Shredder's face is revealed... only it's Raph's face. And this shows us just what Raph is scared of; HIMSELF. Raphael genuinely struggles with anger issues in the 2003 show in a way that's a bit more prominent than in other iterations (my favorite example of this is probably the "what's wrong with me?" from the episode Lone Raph and Cub). He's angry, he's destructive, and he KNOWS this. It's something he's been told and seen for years. He struggles with controlling his anger, and he's had times before when he's lashed out and nearly hurt his brothers. Most of the time he brushes it off and recovers and makes up for it by throwing himself into danger to make sure his brothers aren't hurt. What makes this so heartbreaking is that this Raphael is an absolute sweetheart. He's all brawn and thick skin on the outside, but he's an utter softie; take his interactions with Tyler from Lone Raph and Cub, Mrs. Morrison from Touch and Go, or Ryan from this episode. And that's not to mention his interactions with his brothers!! This Raphael has a huge heart for others, and he has no idea. He genuinely doesn't seem to understand the fact that he's a caring person because he only is aware of his own faults. The fact that he sees himself as this -- their greatest enemy unmasked to see HIMSELF underneath -- shows just how little he knows about who he truly is. Raphael's greatest fear is himself, and that utterly breaks, my heart. Ok I'm done that's just my turtle overanalysis for the day, thank you for coming to my TED talk

[pillowdrawz]

Im gonna be honest When the fics of 12 mikey being adopted to rise fam was like huh this looks like a good idea.

after re watching 12 show i was like Huh no this is a bad idea its like 12 brothers are being bashed.

So how about 12 FAM AND RISE FAM LIKE ADOPT EACH OTHER PLEASE. Or any other version of tmnt would adopt each other

12 leo or all leos would be over protective at rise leo but Rise leo would get annoyed about being a baby he is also a killed and great.

The raphs wohld hunt the Mud dogs after they heard what they did to rise raph.

Donnies would help each other techs etc and would find Shelldon adorable. Other donnies would teach 12 donnie as well.

Mikeys well it would result to chaos.

Tbh aprils hang out no hating.

Thats just my rant. Idk which one is my fav version of tmnt cause my favoritism is Switching idk.

Like Hitting is a normal thing as siblings RISE DO IT TOO RISE OKAY RISE.