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wonderfulworldofmichaelford · 4 years ago

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Michael in the Mainstream: The Dark Knight Trilogy & Its Negative Impact on the Superhero Genre

Superhero movies have come a very long way in the past couple of decades, cementing themselves as a genre unto themselves rather than the odd action movie here or there. Almost every year a few new ones of varying quality pop up that incite equal parts excitement and derision. It’s definitely a genre people feel very strongly about, but even people who tend to not love superhero films will admit that Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy is fantastic.

From 2005 until 2012, Nolan reinvisioned Batman in a way that grounded the character in reality. There’s no fantastical elements, there’s no insane science, there’s no superpowers… Everything in these films could happen in the real world. In a post-Batman & Robin world, this was seen as a breath of fresh air, and the critics loved it. In particular, The Dark Knight helped to usher in the modern age of superhero films, releasing the same year the MCU kicked off and widely being hailed as one of the greatest films of all time. That’s right, not even superhero films, films period. These films were impressive, groundbreaking, and… they fundamentally ruined superhero movies for quite a while.

Look, I don’t particularly hate these films. I think all of them are pretty good, in their own ways. But they have a lot of glaring issues that really hamper them a fair bit and yet, somehow, they became the blueprint that studios decided to look at for what they thought a successful superhero movie should be. Nolan’s films are serious, brooding, dark, and lack the whimsy and creative insanity that makes comics such a fun and engaging medium, and I think this right here is what has hurt comic book movies the most over the past decade. These are films that feel absolutely ashamed to be comic book movies, and they desperately want to seem like they’re “mature” and for “adults.” And, unfortunately for the rest of us, this shame translated over into a lot of other films, something we’re only just now recovering from.

Looking at the greatest strength of the trilogy shows this issue pretty well, that being the villains. Nolan’s films gave us truly iconic portrayals of characters like Bane, Joker, and Scarecrow, and you’re not gonna hear me say much bad about them. Cillian Murphy, Liam Neeson, Tom Hardy, Anne Hathaway, Aaron Eckhart, and Heath Ledger all do fantastic jobs as the insidious rogues of Batman. But the issue I have is that by grounding these characters in a realistic setting like this, it kind of misses the point. Joker isn’t using exploding cakes and laughing gas, Ra’s al Ghul isn’t an immortal warrior, Bane isn’t a drugged-up super soldier… They’re all just Guys. They’re Guys With Gimmicks, yes, but at the end of the day they aren’t what should be looked at as the be-all, end-all of the character’s portrayals.

And yet everyone acts like no one should ever play Joker again, because Heath Ledger’s Joker was just so good, guys! And he was good, but I don’t think Ledger’s Joker should be the absolute final Joker ever. Quite frankly, I prefer Phoenix’s Joker, because even if that version is also in a rather grounded film missing the overt weirdness of comics for the most part, he still dresses in a colorful costume, acts weird, tells jokes, and is in general more Jokery. Out of all of these villains, I think Bane and Scarecrow at least come within the ballpark of being close to how they should be, but Scarecrow is horribly underutilized and Bane is given a rather undignified sendoff.

Then there are the bigger issues. Batman himself is really downplayed throughout the trilogy, getting fairly little screentime compared to villains and side characters. This was a huge point of contention when The Dark Knight Rises came out, with most of the film featuring Bruce Wayne, and in hindsight it highlights how unwilling Nolan was to engage with the comic book trappings of what he was adapting. I like Christian Bale a lot, he’s a great actor, but I don’t think he really carries any of the films; in fact, it’s usually the villains carrying the movies. Bale is certainly not as bad as Val Kilmer in the role of Wayne/Batman, but he’s no Keaton, he’s no Clooney, he’s not even an Affleck. A lot of the time, he also just feels like… a Guy. And Batman should not ever, ever just be a Guy.

But perhaps the most egregious fault of the films is what it did to Gotham City itself. In Burton’s films, you really get a feel for the Gothic atmosphere of the city with how it’s designed, and this goes for Batman: The Animated Series too. And even the more cartoonish, colorful Gotham of Schumacher’s films pops and leaves an impact. But Nolan’s Gotham? It’s very much just a City. There is nothing distinct about Nolan’s Gotham, it’s literally just a generic city, and if you even have the faintest knowledge of Batman you will know that Gotham is not just a city. Gotham is pretty much a character itself, a dark, imposing landscape in which Batman does battle with his costumed foes. Every other adaptation I can think of knows to make Gotham feel unique and distinct, but this one just absolutely drops the ball. You might as well just have the city be New York if you’re going to put no effort into giving it personality.

And that all brings me to this: every reviled superhero movie of the past decade, from F4ntastic to The Amazing Spider-Man to Dawn of Justice, all have their genesis in Nolan’s trilogy. He laid the groundwork for these films to exist, and a large majority of the blame needs to be put on Nolan for sapping the fun out of comic book movies. Now, to be totally fair to Nolan, he’s not entirely responsible for what happened to the comic book film landscape; prior to him, the X-Men film series was giving all of the heroes dark costumes and being a bit more serious. But despite those films playing a bit of a part, there’s one major reason I don’t fault them nearly as much: The X-Men films never once felt ashamed to be comic book movies.

You have to understand, people loved grit and edginess in the 90s and had just violently rejected Batman & Robin a few years prior to the original X-Men film, so it’s hard to really fault it for wanting to avoid being too campy. But much like Blade, the films never tried to act like they weren’t still crazy comic book films. Scott still has eye lasers, Mystique is still blue, Nightcrawler looks like a demon, there are Sentinels and Apocalypse and even Dazzler shows up at one point! The X-Men franchise wasn’t always good, but it managed to balance between being silly and taking itself seriously pretty well for the most part. Magneto is still a Holocaust survivor, his relationship with Xavier still has impact, there are still emotional moments here and there, but then you also have Deadpool movies and the multiple comic book style retcons to the timeline that leave the continuity a mess, and something about that just feels right. And all that makes Logan less egregious despite being the sort of brooding, angsty superhero drama Nolan would make, because even if it is those things, it still centers around a dude with metal claws coming out of his hands trying to stop his best friend from wiping out everyone with psychic seizures. Nolan could never make this superhero film.

Nolan’s films, on the other hand, did. These films did not feel like they wanted to be comic book movies, they felt like they wanted to be serious crime films but Nolan was stuck with Batman so he just mashed the two together. And honestly, I’d probably be more forgiving if it weren’t for the hugely negative impact these films and their critical success had on the superhero genre even until this day. The first decade of superhero films as a major contender in cinema were colored by these films. People outright balked at silliness in superhero movies for quite some time, with a lot of criticism levied at the early phases of the MCU for being too goofy; in fact, at times it seemed as if the MCU was going a bit too far in the goofy direction without striking the proper balance, with films like Age of Ultron having most of its tension defused by constant wisecracks. And on the DC side, Nolan’s grounded approach lead to Zack Snyder’s flaccid filmmaking with dark coloration, moody atmosphere, and not a shred of joy to be found. Nolan is essentially the peak of dark, grounded superhero films, and Snyder is the nadir, but Snyder’s awful DC films wouldn’t exist if not for Nolan.

It was a slow crawl getting to what superhero movies should be. Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man were films tossed out only when Marvel was certain they could take risks, because absurd concepts like those would just not have been able to survive if not for years of good will beforehand. That’s not even getting into some of the more bonkers elements of later films, such as Ego the Living Planet and basically everything about Doctor Strange. In fact, Doctor Strange, for all its issues, is still a massive step forward for a genre that outright rejected magic for a long time, instead for a time turning Thor and his costars into a cast of hyper-advanced aliens, with later films having to clarify that there is magic and zombies and so on. The recent WandaVision was able to further clarify this by making Wanda unambiguously magic and not an evil Nazi science experiment.

Superhero animation didn’t suffer quite so much, but that’s mostly because, much like comics, animation is still seen as “kid’s stuff” by way too many people. And even then, they didn’t escape the shadow of Nolan totally unscathed; one need only look into the infamous Bat Embargo, which limited Batman villains so there could only be one given incarnation of said character in media. For instance, the Scarecrow being in Batman Begins meant he could not appear in the animated series The Batman. This lead to such things as no Batman characters appearing in Justice League Unlimited. It was truly a stupidly frustrating time to be a Batman fan when some of his most iconic foes were relegated to only certain appearances because it “might confuse kids.”

Let me again clarify this: I mostly like the Nolan films. I usually like Nolan, though he has become unbearably, obnoxiously pretentious these days. I think a lot of elements of them are great, I feel like they mostly have strong villains, and I don’t disagree that The Dark Knight is a fantastic film. But the thing is these are only good as AU stories, as their own thing; they should not be the template every superhero movie should follow, or any superhero movie for that matter, because they lack the ability to engage with the things that make people love comics in the first place. People love wacky, off-the-wall concepts, superpowered aliens, magic, talking animals, evil living planets, alcoholic ducks, and all that fun stuff.

People desperately want the fun, camp, and wacky stuff back in comic book films, as the success of the goofier DC films like Aquaman, Shazam, and Birds of Prey as well as the success of shows like Doom Patrol in comparison to the critical and audience revulsion of Snyder’s films, with Shazam in particular giving us such bonkers concepts as an entire family of superpowered children and Mr. Mind, the evil alien caterpillar. Thor: Ragnarok and the Guardians of the Galaxy films have become some of the most beloved MCU movies despite being weird, wacky, and wholly embracing the joy of comics to the point the latter films feature Howard the Duck and the aforementioned Ego alongside bizarre characters like Rocket Raccoon, Groot, and Taserface. And the thing with all of these films is that they’re able to balance the weirdness and wackiness of comics without losing sight of human emotion, moving storytelling, and drama. They’re both fun and deep, goofy and yet meaningful. This is what comics are, and what they should be, and anyone who thinks comics should be grim and gritty really needs to think about why they think an entire genre needs to be colored in with only the dullest colors.

I think what I’m trying to say here is this: Make a Detective Chimp movie, you cowards.

#Michael in the Mainstream #mitm #review #movie review #the dark knight trilog #the dark knight #batman begin #the dark knight rises #superhero movie #christopher nolan #DC

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antis-delete-your-blogs-pls-thx · 5 years ago

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Mouse’s Reclist (#1/?)

Okay, it is time. Time to get working on the incredibly frustrating (but rewarding) task of putting together a fic reclist (the EDM one is next). No, none of my own are going to be on here, I literally know antis would accuse me of doing that for clout. If you want my own fics, DM me :). They probably suck, most of them are really self-indulgent, and I have an update schedule that embodies the slow feeling of trying to download free porn from a dial-up connection in 1997. And your mother is picking up the phone when you’re at the last megabyte and makes you start over. Or something.

I’m going to put a hotlink on the title and probably the author, if that’ll work super easy in a format transfer. Then I’ll post the fandom, pairing, and fic summary in italics, and uh, possibly a small review with some warnings. Keep in mind I can’t be as thorough as the authors themselves, if they’ve chosen to tag at all, because while I do reread these often, I can’t remember every exact trigger. Some of these are fluffy, and some of these are FUCKED UP. Capital F, capital U. Let’s get started. Not organised by fandom or by alphabetical order or by length because my ADHD just says “ONTO THE NEXT LINK GOGOGOGOGOGO” every five seconds. Google docs,,,, stop yelling at my grammar and let me do this thing. There should be about 30 or so under the cut. (Maybe I’ll do more?)

Obviously the first is Three Missing Girls in Madison, Wisconsin by lapsi. This is the Mindhunter Bill/Holden rec that I posted, like, four days ago, and what inspired me to post my own little oneshot drabble. You can check for that in my recs tag for a more detailed description. Let’s just say it’s fucking gorgeous. Everything by lapsi is gorgeous.

Revalations by Anonymous - MCU/Starker/WIP - “I still don’t get it,” Ned says. “How you just... keep being ordinary in spite of all the craziness you’ve lived through. You were in space. You helped Iron Man save the universe. And nobody knows it was you.” His tone softens, becomes almost sad. As though he realizes that what he’s saying is so completely alien to him that he will never be able to understand this part of Peter’s life. “Peter, don’t you want people to know you for who you are?”//An AU where they get the Gauntlet off of Thanos that first time, on Titan. - This is a sort of supremely fucked up but also absolutely beautiful Starker fic with aged up!Peter. By, like, three years, and he’s still essentially Tony’s sugar baby, but whatever. It’s literally an absolute amazing ride.

the spaces between the stars by indigostohelit - Generation Kill/Bradnate - Lieutenant Nathaniel Fick of the USS Devil Dog is returning to Earth with the weight of the world on his shoulders: his captain is incompetent, his crew is half in mutiny, and the mission to a distant star may have been more of a failure than anyone could have comprehended. But on the journey back, something in the ship goes terribly wrong—and Nate may have to bear far more than the weight of the world if he's going to keep his men safe. - Okay, what fandom ancients still remember Generation Kill? Warnings in and of itself for just the general nature of camaraderie on that show. I’m usually a Bradray sucker (remind me to get to those next time), but this was fucking fantastic. Sci-fi mystery AU is my absolute FAVOURITE genre, hands down, all time, ever. And indigo has written a veritable basketload of my fav fics besides, so I can always trust in them.

All of Astolat’s MegOp fic - Transformers/MegOp - ‘Nuff said. She’s the founder of the goddamn site. You’re damn straight I’m going to fawn over her fic. Also it’s fucking good, founding the site aside. I cried. I cried so fucking much. I dripped tears like a sponge.

The White Road by perverse_idyll - Harry Potter/Snarry - One day, comfortably set up in the afterlife, Lily Evans Potter switches on the telly and gets hooked on the Harry Potter show. - Okay, first, this is the only time I’ve literally ever seen one-sided Snily where Lily was the one pining. Anyway, the summary explains the premise, but doesn’t do it justice. Lily watches down on the many possible universes that contain her son’s future from a comfy spot in the afterlife. The relationship between literally everyone in the fic and Severus is… exquisitely-detailed and heart-wrenchingly painful. I’d die for this fic, so I could read a million versions of it in the afterlife.

Rapture by mia_ugly - Harry Potter/Snarry - Snape sees the man, for the first time, on his twenty-fifth birthday. - I fucking bawled my eyes out the first time I read this. And the second. And the third. Dumbledore gives Harry a time-travelling watch for his birthday. A watch that travels to a young Severus, who Harry gets to know. On a pretense, of course. And then he falls in love with him. They both do. It’s absolutely agonising angst, but it has a happy ending. It will fucking pack a punch though, so get the tissues ready. This one is perhaps my favourite Snarry fic of all time. Period. Please don’t pass it up. The writing is so fucking amazingly-crafted. I would sell my soul to write like this.

Shell Game by forthegreatergood - DCU/Superbat - Batman wants Superman. Superman wants Batman. Eventually they'll get it sorted out. - An absolutely spot-on identity porn fic. As cheesy as the summary sounds, this fic hits hard. And it has sex pollen. Who can resist sex pollen? Pun intended, maybe.

Every Superbat fic by Susiecarter. - DCU/Superbat - Susie is a friend of mine (fucking,,, don’t know how I managed that one, apparently I write good enough fic for them to read,,, astonishing), and one of Superbat fandom’s greatest contributors. One of DCEU fandom’s greatest contributors, in fact. Everything they’ve written is a masterpiece. But the ultimate fav? as to which may be the true. Hands down. IDENTITY PORN GALORE.

The Long Hangover by CoffioCake - DCU/Superbat - Clark knows he should take a break: His powers are on the fritz, he feels like shit, and Batman’s treating him like a liability. But Gotham's villains seem to have it in for Metropolis' Big Blue Boy Scout and Clark won't just wait around for answers. Batman might be the world’s greatest detective, but Clark Kent is one of the Daily Planet’s most tenacious reporters.//This is definitely a job for Superman. - Okay, I can’t promise another Superbat won’t show up on this list. I’m a sucker for it. I’m also a sucker for case fic. Which is this. It’s so good. So good.

No Glory (and everything else in the HP fandom) by ObsidianPen - Harry Potter/Tomarry/WIP - The Dark Lord divines what Harry Potter is in the Forbidden Forest, and revelations lead to incomprehensible consequences. Lord Voldemort has won... and the dystopia is damning.//A tale of a fallen hero, dark desires, and a Dark Lord's obsession with something he has lost and finds himself unwillingly lusting after: a soul. - This is a Voldemort wins!AU. A fucking delicious one. If only my own Tomarry could aspire, by god. The imagery in this is so vivid I could swear it was painted on my eyelids. The concept of soul magic and interpretations on Horcruxes is unique and perfectly-executed. Honestly, everything Obsidian has ever written for HP is perfectly-executed. I would probably consider this the definitive Tomarry/Harrymort fic. Seriously.

It Cages a Demon by TripleX_Tyrant - Rick & Morty/C137cest/WIP - When Rick captures a powerful being from a demonic dimension - a demon with the ability to devour thoughts - Morty's consciousness is pulled into the demon's cage. Rick must go in after him before Morty's consciousness is completely consumed. But this isn't what the inside of the cage should look like. And if Rick wants to save Morty, he'll have to survive in a place where paths are unclear and monsters manifest.//Rick knew his own mind was complex. But he wasn't ready for this. - A goddamn Silent Hill-style horror mystery AU??????? FOR RICKMORTY? Yep, you heard me. And every second of it is liquid gold. It’s also gory as all fuck and pants-shittingly terrifying at times, so read at your own risk. But if you can risk it, please do. It’s honestly the best execution of C137cest I’ve seen outside of Harmon’s own damn writing lmao.

The Book of Secrets by Are - Downton Abbey/Thommy - With a war of words and wills, Jimmy Kent and Thomas Barrow embark on a strange romance. Set Post Christmas Special. - Thommy is another rare-ish (now, post-2016) pairing that I would die for. And everything Are has ever written for the pairing could kill me and I would thank it. But TBS is the best. Jimmy finds Thomas’ diary (and poetry book), which was also the diary (and sketchbook) of Courtenay before his passing, and learns more about his past and his innermost thoughts. It’s the most haunting, heartbreaking, poignant fic in the pairing. It ends well, but the journey you’ll take from the first chapter is one I would pay money to experience for the first time again. I literally couldn’t even breathe for a while after this. Lapsi’s fic has the same effect, so if you’ve worked through that one by now, be prepared.

Mad Man by griseldajane - MCU/Thorki - In all the years they spent together, it never occurred to Loki that there might be a time when Thor would not be available to him. The god of mischief conceals himself, coming and going as he pleases, doing what he wants.//That Thor might one day do the same never crossed his mind. - All the mindfuckery a Convinced-You-Were-in-an-Insane-Asylum-the-Whole-Time!fic entails and more. If you have issues with dissociating from reality, this is probably a bit much, because it absolutely nails everything about derealisation, delusional thinking, and paranoia. GOD, if you’re willing to let your mind take that battering, though, it’s a damn work of art.

Switch by Ceres_Libera - Star Trek/McKirk - The life and times of Leonard H. McCoy MD/PhD … If Leonard McCoy's life could get any fucking weirder, it would be … Jesus, he didn't even want to think what that could possibly mean, because it's already been too fucking weird to make any kind of rational sense.//A Starfleet Academy story, set in the ST:XI universe. - The ultimate McKirk fic imho. We’ll get to my ultimate Spirk fic in a second. Please do read this. It’s everything you could want out of an Academy!fic. Especially a roommates/UST!fic.

Black Mirror by DarthNickels - Star Wars/Gen - The Ghost crew returns to the Lothal when they hear the Empire is investigating the Jedi Temple there. They learn Vader is alone and decide to take him out-- but what they find could change the course of Galactic history. - What, you think I don’t read Gen? I read Gen!!!! Look at all this Gen I read. Put simply, Dad!Vader redemption arc set in the Rebels era. FUCKING,,, what more could I ask for,,, literally. What more?????????? Sci-fi mystery??? ASKING FOR MORE WHOMMMMMST’VE????

The Lotus Eaters by aldora89 - Star Trek/Spirk - Stranded on the planet Sigma Nox while searching for a missing away team, Spock and Kirk find themselves pitted against a disturbing native life form. With the captain out of commission on a regular basis and Spock struggling to preserve his stoicism, staying alive is difficult enough – but when a slim chance for escape surfaces, their resolve is truly put to the test. Together they must fight for survival in the heart of an alien jungle, and in the process, uncover the mystery of the planet’s past. Slow build K/S. - Here’s that aforementioned ultimate Spirk fic. Okay, what, it’s sci-fi mystery again. Give me a break. You just heard how much I would absolutely die for it. Seriously, there is no Spirk fic I adore more than this. I mean, I adore an absolute shittonne of Spirk fics, but this one is my raison d’etre.

In Good Company by weialala - Naruto/Sasunaru - This will sound a little ridiculous, no matter how Sasuke phrases it. I see dead people is embarrassingly tacky, and I'm half-spirit seems like something Sakura might say when she's stoned sky high. So he settles for a shrug. - Sasuke sees dead people. Sasuke bonds with the goddamn fae. Kuchiyose no Jutsu taken to the fucking max. An epic that does what The Last pretty much couldn’t. Shippuden who???

The Boy Who Died A Lot by starcrossedgirl - Harry Potter/Snarry - Harry’s always been known as The Boy Who Lived. Only Severus knows that this is a lie. (Or: a portrait of Severus Snape, in seven acts.) - Oh, there’s Snarry again. Bite me. This is my second (third? Tied with the White Road?) favourite Snarry fic. Time travel, almost Groundhog Day style. Severus has to go back and fix every mistake Harry makes that leads to his untimely death throughout the seven books. I honestly could believe this is what really happened, and we just don’t know otherwise because Rowling hasn’t deigned to make this shit up and put a woke spin on it yet.

Kisses Cursed by The_Fictionist - Harry Potter/Tomarry - Fairytale AU. Loosely inspired by Beauty and the Beast.//Some said he was once a man, cursed, and some that he sold his soul to demons and became one in turn. Others said that such evil as he could never have been human. That he was instead a nightmare, left lingering upon the earth a very long time ago.//Harry just knew it wasn't safe to walk near the Riddle House after dark. - Not just a fairytale AU, but a MYSTERY(!!!!) fairytale!AU. Okay, who’s gotten that I love mystery by now? This one is amazing, no matter how many puzzle pieces have slotted into place. The ride is a wild one and a great one. My second favourite Tomarry fic. I’d rank more of The_Fictionist’s higher, but they’ve deleted a lot of their old stuff, despite me absolutely adoring it.

United States v. Barnes, 617 F. Supp. 2d 143 (D.D.C. 2015) by fallingvoices & radialarch - MCU/Stucky - The Associated Press @AP//Winter Soldier set to stand trial for Washington D.C. massacre and treason apne.ws/1og6SWE - Both an epistolary/media fic and a case fic? Sign me tf up. Came out mere seconds (I exaggerate a little) after TWS, which I instantly fell in love with in theatres (still my fav MCU movie, folks). Details what a trial would be like for James Buchanan Barnes, should the MCU function more like real life, all in newspaper/tweet/blog form. Best way I’ve seen epistolary!fic formatted, tbh. Only on the AO3, huh?

The Mirror by cloudyjenn - Supernatural/Destiel - When Dean touches a strange mirror, he's whisked away to one alternate reality after another and it doesn't take him long to realize the universe is trying to tell him something. - I love dimension hopping. And it’s for my first ever hardcore fandom (besides Pokemon), too! I usually see dimension hopping more in sci-fi and superhero fandoms, so it was nice to see it in fantasy, too. A million alternate dimensions where Dean and Cas are in love. It’s definitely a message. :eyes emoji:

Stay With Me (home is where your mind is.) by sara_holmes - Marvel/Stony - Where Steve doesn’t quite die, ends up stranded in the multiverse and would quite like to know how the hell so many versions of himself ended up sleeping with Tony Stark. Well, that’s going to make things a tad awkward when he gets home. - Speaking of dimension hopping in superhero fandoms. This is honestly the most interesting way I’ve seen dimension hopping played out. Or rather, dimension consolidating. Steve ends up in a purgatory-style void populated only by other versions of himself from throughout the Multiverse. Like the Mirror, there’s definitely a message being sent here about how many versions of him are doing the do with a certain genius playboy billionaire philanthropist.

Thicker than Water by StarkatHeart - Marvel/Stony/Superfamily - Neither of them would admit it, but blood does count for something.//When Peter Parker discovers his biological father is actually none other than Tony Stark, it's not exactly news that's well received. By either party. But they're Avengers. They're teammates. They'll just have to work through it. ...Or maybe just ignore it. - On a completely different note from Starker, or not-so-different, depending on how depraved you like your fic to be flavoured, Peter as Tony’s biological son. This is pure Superfamily, not a hint of fucked up incest to be found. Though if anyone has any fucked up incest recs, I’m down to get my dirty paws on them.

the undiscovered country by indigostohelit - Shakespeare/Hamratio - It's 1959, and the mayor of Chicago is dead. - Remember how I said indigo had written some of my fav fics before? Yeah, 1950’s Americana!AU Hamlet, with added Hamratio. It is as good as it sounds.

All of astolat’s GoT and Thor works TBH. But please don’t pass up her Thorki, especially not Chaos War and Revelations.

Reaching as I Fall by apokteino - Supernatural/Destiel - “Service to God was the meaning of existence; service to Michael is nothing but slavery.” Castiel is part of an underground network helping angels fall, in resistance to heaven. At the same time that a fallen angel by the name of Dean Winchester turns up, some of those in the network are murdered by Michael’s forces – there’s a spy. What does Dean have to do with it? Who is Dean? And why are they hunting him so fiercely?//A story about love, family, and choice. - Let me introduce you to my favourite AU concept from all of SPN fandom. No, I won’t spoil it. Needless to say, I’ve tried to write it myself a thousand times, and only succeeded in a thousand false starts. Maybe one day I’ll get around to it. Plus, I always disagree with these authors, anyway. Dean is totally a bottom. ;P

I Got a Soul but I’m Not a Soldier by starandrea - Supernatural/Destiel - AU: Castiel is on the road (saving people, helping things) when he meets Dean and realizes that his soul is different - and not just because he's the pastor's son. - Here it is again, my favourite trope (well, I’d call it a trope, if there were more than a dozen or so fics for it). If you haven’t read RAIF, I’m wondering if you’ve caught on yet. ;P.

Chosen Man by Sineala - The Eagle/Marcus x Esca - The son of the man who lost the Eagle of the Ninth would never be allowed a first command of his very own fort, would he?//Marcus is posted not to Isca Dumnoniorum, but to a wretched and run-down garrison north of the Wall. There he finds that he is the new centurion of a group of scouts and spies, all of them British. He has few supplies and no experience. His men distrust him. His superiors despise him. His second-in-command is an incompetent drunkard. And the local tribes are determined to kill all of them.//But the worst thing of all is one of Marcus' soldiers. He is an enigmatic, dangerous, and insubordinate man by the name of Esca, who makes Marcus yearn for terrifying things he has never before wanted and can never, ever let himself have… - Sine pretty much engineered the Eagle fandom.

I followed them from the Eagle and into all their other ventures, too, and when they started writing for Stony I practically screamed in excitement. PLEASE read their Stony, if it’s the only Stony you ever read.

The Leonardo Effect by Phoenike - Assassin’s Creed/EzioLeo - To Ezio’s best knowledge, Leonardo's idea of debauchery was staying up until morning with a bottle of wine and too many sketching supplies. But why would the gondolier have lied? It was a heavy accusation. In both Firenze and Venezia, mere allegations of unnatural conduct had condemned men to be pilloried or hanged. - My favourite EzioLeo fic of all time. Everything Phoe has ever written is a gem, but this one takes the cake. Have I said that already? A lot of cake is being taken. Please read. It’s the epitome of what makes EzioLeo good.

Naked to Mine Enemies by mundungus42 - Pirates of the Caribbean/Sparrington - The Pirate Code doesn't expressly command its adherents to repay debts that bridge life and death, but the Code is more of a set of guidelines, anyway. Sparrow/Norrington, set after At World's End, ignores all films released thereafter. - A classic fic for a classic ship. My ship pun both is and isn’t intended. I’d read this one over and over. Okay, I already do. Whenever I go back to Sparrington, I go back to this.

The Persistence of Iron by Sylvia - Marvel/X-Men Cinematic Universe/Cherik - Waking up in a lab with no memories and a blue-eyed stranger calling him by someone else's name is only the beginning of Erik's problems.- Sci-fi mystery. You don’t need to ask me to clarify at this point, do you? Cloning tech? CLONING TECH? DE-AGING CLONING TECH? So many favourite tropes.

Take the Heat Out of Me by quipquipquip - DCU/Jaydick - Lost Days!Jason trolls Officer Grayson!Dick in Blüdhaven. Dick counter-trolls with the power of love. (It's super effective.) - A classic Jaydick fic. I think it was quip’s last foray into fic. Under that name, at least. What a bang to go out with.

Don’t Quote Me by TKodami - DCU/Superbat/WIP - Bruce Wayne has weathered scandal before, and Wayne Enterprises can handle another publicity crisis. What Bruce can’t handle is one crashing up against his plans to infiltrate Lex’s estate. Set during Batman v. Superman. - There’s that more Superbat. I’m sure… one day… the author will finish it. It’s a goddamn sex tape scandal!fic. Glorious.

Speaking of, every Superbat fic by Liodain.

In This White Wave I Am Sinking by queeniegalore - Generation Kill/Bradray - He felt like he wasn’t really living, like he was in an in-between state, something that came between war and real life, something like purgatory. - The atmosphere for this is consistently beautiful and bittersweet.

Okay, that’s about it for now. Save for an honourable mention to one of the fics that I started off with in the SPN fandom. I’d honour some more, but most everything’s been purged at this point. Come on, 2012!fandom, stop hiding behind how “cringe” you think shit was. I want my fic back.

Pull Me Under by AwesomeDistractions -- a Destiel handprint!kink WIP.

And finally, the most honourable mention, the first slash fic I ever read, from the Pokemon fandom, of all places. Originalshipping horror/mystery!AU. Wow, my tastes have always been, well, my tastes. Believe it or not, best place I can find it is a Waybackmachine archive of a creepypasta uploading site that went defunct a while back. I never found out the original author. But here it is, Missing, the first ever slash fic I stumbled across.

If you guys want more, I can definitely provide more. I have thousands of bookmarks. These are just my very, very favourites. What ones are still remaining on AO3, anyway. This is why I save most in PDFs. Though there are a few completely lost to time, and I’m pretty sure the OTW says fuck you to Waybackmachine, which. Uhghgh. Please. I want my nostalgia rush back.

#long post #pro shipping #pro ship #anti anti #anti anti shipping #fic recs #fic rec #reclist #recs #enjoy!!!!!#this took me all night sjkfsokldjlk

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davidmann95 · 5 years ago

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this is one of the nuttiest weeks in comics in awhile, what're you pulling and what are your thoughts?

Having missed Daredevil, Peter Cannon: Thunderbolt, and The Wild Storm for now, a situation hopefully to be rectified this weekend, and knowing there are profound spoilers ahead:

Superman: Leviathan Rising #1: SUPERMAN AND JIMMY OLSEN, OUR FAVORITE GOOD TIME PARTY BOYS. This was the embodiment of ‘inject it into my veins’ comics, even with that disconnected, pointless Supergirl section, which still at least assured me that I’m not missing out on anything in her book right now. Otherwise? Superman sucks at acting, because acting is lying! Lois giving Batman the business! 4-QQ&BE4J*O(@NX!

Heroes in Crisis #9: This…ended about as well as it possibly could, I suppose, and I do actually mean that as a compliment, but that only matters so much. I probably actually did like more individual issues of this than I disliked, but the basic concept behind the mystery once it unfolds is a needlessly destructive one for the character in question, King’s dialogue quirks ran away with him, the pacing was shot, Mann showed his ass in some rough ways, and so much of it reads like King completing a mandate. There were moments of grace - the final page of confessionals has the funniest panel of King’s career - that mean I’ll absolutely reread this at some point, but on the whole, it can at last be set in stone that this was Tom King’s first and hopefully last major failure.

Detective Comics Annual #2: Haven’t been getting Tomasi’s Detective, but the preview made it look like it was going to be his best effort in some time. It was, but not enough for me to be interested in the arc this is setting up for down the line.

Fantastic Four #10: I really thought I’d drop this after the first tepid arc, but while I’m ditching Iron Man, Slott’s been acquitting himself admirably here recently, and Paco Medina’s art is always a treat.

Thor #13: There’s little in this issue that isn’t rote and obvious, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t good as hell.

War of the Realms: War Scrolls #2: There’s a panel in the first part where Daredevil’s legs are hella weird, but the Strange story was nice and that Loki/Wiccan/Hulkling story that’s been taking the internet by storm was indeed pretty nice.

The Magnificent Ms. Marvel #3: This doesn’t have the spark that Ahmed’s work right now on Miles possesses - I’m not even positive I’ll finish this first arc - but it’s a decently charming page-turner and I could see it ending up grabbing me down the line.

The Immortal Hulk #18: It’s genuinely astonishing that this is still capable of freaking me the fuck out, but good goddamn.

Doomsday Clock #10: As I said on Twitter, this was the dopiest, most lowest-common-denominator fanboy-pandering shit in the world, and let me tell you: I’m that lowest common denominator, babeyyyy. Is it good now? Far from it. But it’s becoming almost exactly the comic I feel like it probably should have been all along, and not even just because it’s basically 30 pages of big daddy Geoff petting my head and whispering “shh, shh, it’s okay, your favorite character is still the most important and always will be no matter how bad we fuck up, we promise Morrison Action still kinda matters, shhhhhh”. It’s to its weird credit that the issue that was definitely 100% conceived as ‘the continuity dump’ ends up the only one that says much of substance about anything, even if it’s just that Superman’s important; the book should have been meta all along, and now it’s straight-up calling the main DCU the Metaverse in reference to how it’s always changing in reference to our own real world. And this definitely has the most moments of odd magic previous issues sporadically managed of classic, goofy and/or corny superhero moments taking on an almost totemic degree of weight and power in this bizarre context. Just have Manhattan in some way acknowledge how Superman fundamentally affected his own world too, and I’ll be able to rest easy that this lovely abomination lived up to his full potential in the context of being a dopey Geoff Johns comic.

(My unearned enthusiasm aside though: I don’t think it’s really come up in Doomsday Clock criticism that I’ve seen, but it should probably be talked about that it shares big daddy Watchmen’s I *think* well-meaning but regardless unpleasant relationship with queerness. And Watchmen’s issues, while present, are illuminated by time: my impression was that by 80s cape comics standards it was majorly progressive. Doomsday Clock…clearly doesn’t mean any harm, but actually comes up notably shorter than even its predecessor? While also making its queerness much more important to the plot than Watchmen ever did yet not really doing anything with that but using it as a delivery mechanism for Plot, the latter in this issue coming fundamentally bundled with what makes the former uncomfortable? However you slice it, this is a comic where gay and trans people exist, but only a long time ago as something that was shamed, however much the story frames that as a bad thing. And on a related note: is Carver Coleman supposed to be a George Reeves analogue of sorts? Co-star of the Superman-centric issue, bad relationship with his mother, died under mysterious circumstances in the 50s? Perhaps it’ll be clearer when that thread wraps up; maybe I’m the dope, but I still haven’t picked up on the thematic significance of his story or Nathaniel Dusk’s yet.)

Batman: Last Knight on Earth #1: So on top of everything else, it is buck wild that Snyder and Capullo’s take on the final Batman story isn’t a disconnected-from-continuity, archetypal, ‘timeless’ tale like All-Star Superman or The Dark Knight Returns, but explicitly a bad ending AU for Snyder’s own current Justice League run. What matters more than where it’s situated though is what it is: in the words of Mark Stack, this book is a chainsaw. It kicks off with what seems the prelude to the sort of traditional ending this isn’t, swerves into the dumb memey version that everyone on the internet has seen (including clearly the creators of this comic) which Batman defeats, and then it stands revealed in truth as the MOST Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo version of a last Batman adventure imaginable. It’s clones and purple super lightning and toytowns and mad alien light babies and Joker’s head in a jar telling dirty rhymes (easily Snyder’s best take on him to date) and a wayfaring quest to save a world that’s chosen to die, and this is the prelude. I couldn’t be more into it, especially as the ample production time and physical space gives this a much more assured pace than Snyder’s had anywhere else in recent memory, and I could honestly imagine this ending up as my favorite out of the pair’s Batman joints by the time it’s through, the ultimate distillation of their take on him and their joint aesthetic.

Also, unlikely as it is, I think there is a better than zero chance that Omega is Jarro. A mind-controlling disciple of Batman in a story spinning out of current Justice League? Would that really, really be too weird to fit, nevermind that making Starro the final villain of the DCU he in a very real way created?

#Heroes in Crisis #Doomsday Clock #Batman: Last Knight on Earth #Batman #Scott Snyder #Greg Capullo #Tom King #Geoff Johns #Gary Frank #Week's Comics #Opinion

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rabdoidal · 7 years ago

Note

pls write more about how u like it!!! who's ur fave? what's lookin good? i need ur #takes

Okay so! I don’t really talk about it on here much but I’m so genuinely obsessed with superheroes, almost all universes I create are about either magic or superheroes, and more often than not, both, so the idea of a superhero campaign is great!

I’m especially excited because I know that Clint will have made a superhero universe by a comic fan, for both comic fans and for non-comic fans! I trust him completely in this, I know with absolute certainty that I’m going to like this arc.

Now! The characters!

REMMY:

Spiderman means a lot to me on a personal level. My dad used to collect Spiderman comics and collectible cards (which I then carried on to reading more Marvel as I grew up), I’ve seen the Tobey McGuire movies more times than I care to admit (somewhere in the dozens is my guess), and the names Miles and Peter where in the list of names I picked from when choosing a new name (Miles won, obviously). So to hear that Griffin not only really likes Spiderman but is having this kinda Spiderman-adjacent/inspired character brings me more joy than you can imagine.

Similarly for Cowboy Bebop: I love that shit, and so does my brother

What a fantastic background story honestly

Let me elaborate on how he made Jeremy Dooley:+ Jeremy Dooley’s wrestling persona/alter ego is called Rimmy Tim+ He wears a dumb costume which I assume everyone in this arc will do+ Highschool gymnast & martial artist+ Jeremy likes Spiderman+ Jeremy likes ANW+ Both are nerds that work with computers

He’s kept Remmy nice and flexible for future story progression which is great

Spring heel like Spring heeled Jack what a dorkus

I just love when Griffin makes characters

He’s my fave so far

NADIA JONES:

BRITISH-BANGLADESHI SUPERHERO ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? I LOVE HER

Ask questions first, science later

I love Star Trek a lot also so having a Spock-like character that can very gradually open up to the emotional and empathetic side of things, or learning to be more human, is a very wonderful way (in my opinion) to make a character. I’m looking forward to her development, and I hope they continue on with Commitment so we can see it more fully

I know she’d hate the comparison but Plastic Man’s abilities were always so funny to me when watching The Brave & The Bold

I’m also getting Symmetra vibes from her? Anyone else? The way that she’s about science and creation, how she was raised in a very lonely environment, her cool behavior (she might also be on the spectrum which would be cool).

I hope she’s a bambi ass lesbian

IRENE BAKER:

(Singing) I hope she’s super Canadian

Very Storm which is deffo one of the best & gayest X-Men, very Thor, very Wonder Woman, which is my mum’s dream combination I think?

Dr. Baker & Mr. Kardala

DC actually has a fair few native superheroes which is cool

I’m heaving a big dreamy sigh because I hope Kardala is a little like Troth because she was a Very Good Concept

Parks & Rec with Irene

ADDITIONALLY:

I love that it’s very old-comics by way of an underwater lair, based off a president’s life philosophy, mild-mannered-individuals-turned-heroic, etc.

If you guys like that concept and like comic-y stuff check out the pilot for Amazing Screw-on Head

I’m about to run out the door but I love these guys so much

#personal #taz commitment #Anonymous

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comicteaparty · 7 years ago

Text

September 14th, 2017 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party chat that occurred on September 14th, 2017, from 5PM - 7PM PDT. The chat focused on Nine Twilights by Andrea Rosales, Anne Mortensen-Agnew, and Chris Hansbrough.

Featured Comment:

Chat:

RebelVampire

Good day everyone~! This week’s Comic Tea Party is now officially beginning. Today we are discussing Nine Twilights by Andrea Rosales, Anne Mortensen-Agnew, and Chris Hansbrough~! (http://www.ninetwilights.com/) For those new to CTP, discussions about the comic are freeform, so please feel free to bring up whatever you wish. However, every 30 minutes I will be dropping in a discussion question to help those who would like a prompt. These questions are totally OPTIONAL to answer so pay them no mind if you wish~! Remember, constructive criticism is allowed, but the primary focus here is to have fun and appreciate the amazing comics that the community makes~! Each chat a top comment will be picked and featured on an ad for this chat, so let’s have a great discussion~! With that said, let us begin with this first question~!

QUESTION 1. What is your favorite scene in the comic so far and why?

DracoPlato

I think I like the latest page the most because it was the happiest so far and she looks cute trying on the dress. RebelVampire

yeah i really liked seeing her embrace freedom there and get to enjoy herself.

especially since even before the big odin reveal her life was pretty crappy

was going to slap her teacher so hard O_O

DracoPlato

yeah her teacher was such a jerk >n<

I liked the transformation scene too because of the colors, but I thought it seemed really random with the rest of the tone of the story so maybe not my favorite since I wtfed a lot during it

MathTans

Hey-yay-yay-yayyay, hey-yay-yay... I said hey. What's goin' on. (re: latest page)

(That's totally He-Man meme in the background, right?)

RebelVampire

omg it is he-man

i didnt even notice

JudgementScythe

it migght be

RebelVampire

thats amazing

DracoPlato

oooomg that's awesome, lol

JudgementScythe

Andrea likes to have fun with the background elements

AndreaRosales

Hello! I'm Andrea! I'm the artist of Nine Twilights!

MathTans

As to fave scene, I'm gonna go right back to Page 13. The conversation while walking down the stairs on one side, with the rainbow on the other. That just looked so neat, like a juxtaposition of the normal with the fantastical, and I would have never thought of doing the layout that way.

AndreaRosales

I love backgrounds, but my favorite thing in making this comic is honestly just having fun with facial expressions. I love having characters emote and really act.

DracoPlato

your facial expressions are amazing, those were my favorite part of the comic

annemagnew

Anne, the writer here

DracoPlato

I really really liked the art in this

AndreaRosales

Aww garrrrsh thank you!

JudgementScythe

yeah the stairs page was one of my favorite things she sent me. It was just a really cool idea for the movement and storytelling of a page

AndreaRosales

Aw, yay! Thwe whole team is here!

MathTans

Though I also liked the transformation scene. I might have squeed.

I didn't expect it, but thought, that ups things.

DracoPlato

I thought visually it was gorgeous

altho wouldn't have minded more norse themes incorporated into the outfit

MathTans

Yay for team synergy! I'm impressed at how you work together.

DracoPlato

it reminded me more of greek designs

MathTans

I freely admit to my ignorance as far as norse goes.

AndreaRosales

The bare inks of stair page!

MathTans

Coolness! You keep all that on hand?

AndreaRosales

I do!

Actually, let me know if you guys wanna see any concept art!

I've got TONS on my compy that I'm more than happy to share.

I like talking comics process . I learned a LOT while working on 9T. It's kinda my first comic.

It is my first serious go at arting a comic

RebelVampire

i really like the composition for the panel on the right cause i find my eye auto drawn to the rainbow. which i assume is a ref to bifrost so i knew something was going down.

MathTans

Your enthusiasm is infectious. Yay for arting.

(Well, and writing and editing too!)

That whole "you knew my name thing" was well done. I picked up on it off Baltur's expression the first time she did it, but I can see how it might have been missed making for a nice callback when he hit her with the whammy.

annemagnew

@RebelVampire Definite. The Bifrost (or the current one at any rate) in our story is something of a fusion between a Boom Tube, the Thor movie's interpretation of the Bifrost, and auroras & rainbows

AndreaRosales

sketchy!

RebelVampire

i really liked the name thing cause for me i was like "wait when did he say his name maybe i missed some dialogue." but then whoops, surprise, this was an important tell

MathTans

Also friggin' impressed how a battle with the undead can have moments of levity in there. Well played. (The heavy sword, for instance.

JudgementScythe

I think, my favorite thing about this whole thing has been watching Andrea's art improve page after page.

MathTans

Cool, it's in different colours...

AndreaRosales

Those are the super rough pen and ink sketchies. I had to play with a lot of different page layouts to get it juuuust right.

DracoPlato

yeah it was good that the name was mentioned again cause i was confused if i'd missed a page

she looks like sailor saturn there XD

AndreaRosales

At one point, transformation page was gonna look like this!

MathTans

So is that by hand and scanned in?

AndreaRosales

Fun fact!

Wanda's design is actually based on Sailor Saturn!

annemagnew

@MathTans Wanda was originally going to have a sword -- Mythologically, Gungnir was a gift and not his original weapon, and one of the Viking weapons books I have mentioned swords as weapons of the nobility and spears weapons of laymen. Also, Gungnir still exists here, even if it's not currently usable. But I figured it would be better to stay "on-brand"

AndreaRosales

It was one of the first design references Anne gave me.

annemagnew

Yup. Her hair is directly lifted from Saturns

sad teenage girls with death powers

MathTans

I can see it now, right, with the glaive and everything.... clever.

AndreaRosales

I do all my layouts on paper in my sketchbook first.

I take pics on my phone, email them to myself and then I just insert them into my Manga Studio document and then I pencil and ink away.

DracoPlato

aaaaah that makes sense

AndreaRosales

Manga Studio is wonderful by the way. I really enjoy working with it.

MathTans

@annemagnew That's fair. As I say, I don't know the brand well myself, but it seemed to work for me.

DracoPlato

yeah i work in MS too, it's a great program

annemagnew

i am All About norse mythology

AndreaRosales

Sad teenage girls with death powers, but also, best friends!

MathTans

I can tell from the avatar.

AndreaRosales

I love horse mythology too.

MathTans

Pegasus?

AndreaRosales

I mean Norse mythology. Horses are cool too though.

Most def!

I didn't know that much/ anything about Norse mythos until this project.

DracoPlato

should've done Loki if you love horses, huhuhuhuhu

MathTans

That would be low key.

AndreaRosales

Neigh!

You're such a good neiiiigghbor for those puns.

I love it.

I love puns. Keep em' comin'!

MathTans

Hah. I'm mostly math puns, but I branch out. Not relevant to 9T though.

I like the idea of them going all over the world, wow! Have you travelled much? (The creators.)

JudgementScythe

I've lived in Oregon and Muskoka Ontario and spent a lot of time in Guanajuato Mexico and Costa Rica as well

You want to know about middle of nowhere Canada. I'm your guy

AndreaRosales

Woo! Concept art time! This was one of my first takes of Wanda in her magical girl form. We didn't go with this one since it wasn't Norse looking enough. So it was back to the drawing board for me!

MathTans

Heh, I'm a Canadian, so I'm good. As Indonesia, I have no idea if the city's right or not, but you seem the types to research such things.

DracoPlato

oh i really like that design

AndreaRosales

I have travelled a fair bit! Been to Italy, England, Mexico ( got lots of family there, I'm Mexican, btw, Canada, Japan, etc.)

annemagnew

I travelled a lot more when I was younger (and didn't have to pay for it, sobs). The idea of globe-hopping team actually sprung out of watching Sailor Moon as a kid. If they mentioned in the English dub why they had to stay in Crossroads (ie because they looked for the Silver Crystal everywhere else), I missed it, and wondered why the Negaverse didn't just go somewhere else. And then I thought if they did, then Sailor Moon would have to follow them! And she'd meet Sailor Scouts in cool places like China and Russia and [other countries?? in my memory those were the only other countries??]

AndreaRosales

I would looooove to travel more though.

I also wished for a more diverse sailor moon!

So when Anne approached me to work on this comic I was immediately like " YES!"

Initially with some hesitation though b/c I wasn't confident in my ability to consistently webcomic well at the time.

JudgementScythe

A lot of the indonesia scenes were taken from reference photos. As well as the fact that Anne and I have been part of the SUikoden fandom forever which has a huge indonesian contingent who I've run things past to see if we've gotten the score right

MathTans

Thumbs up for Sailor Moon, my gateway anime.

AndreaRosales

It's so, so good.

DracoPlato

yis

annemagnew

literally the thing i care about most

MathTans

I don't think anyone's confident to start out with. Or if they are, they probably need humility or whatever.

AndreaRosales

Wanda's magical girl design take 1 was based on Chris Lightfellow from Suikoden 3! I've never played a Suikoden game!

MathTans

Oh, huzzah for fandoms then.

annemagnew

look at that female videogame character with ACTUAL ARMOR

AndreaRosales

I love her design. That armor * kisses fingers*

JudgementScythe

We're going to fix that

AndreaRosales

20 CHEF KISSES FOREVER

Here's an old Wanda! I was inspired by FF games at the time so there ya go!

annemagnew

I still want to bring that pelt cloak back somehow!

AndreaRosales

another early wanda

RebelVampire

i really like the pelt cloak in that design

DracoPlato

same

AndreaRosales

Wanda's def. gonna bring pelts back in style!

MathTans

How long did you concept the comic before starting, if you don't mind the question?

Wanda's gonna pelt people?

annemagnew

@MathTans I came up with it during an internship I had in college, 2012 or 2013

I wanted to do a magical girl comic since forever, and I love Norse Mythology, so combined them. I had two ideas for the premise - the team either were reincarnated gods, a la Sailor Moon, or were just given the gifts of gods, a la Wedding Peach

MathTans

(I vaugely recall some of the bg from reading the between-volume-asides, but not well, and others reading the chat later might want to know.)

AndreaRosales

I was approached for the project in early 2014 if I recall correctly. I think Anne and Chris talked to some other artist friends of ours before they came to me.

We worked on designs and layouts for a good while.

Look at this sassy Sari. I love her attitude.

JudgementScythe

And the two of us talked about doing it for a bit but fell off until I felt the editing bug come back after time away from the industry. Then I was just like no we gotta really do this because you should be writing comics and I really am feeling making them again.

annemagnew

If I had gone with scenario B, the story would have taken place before Ragnarok, and Tyr would have been in the Baldur mentor role

AndreaRosales

OOOH BALDUR!

MathTans

Is Sari also a reincarnation, or is she just related to someone who is?

AndreaRosales

OUR FAVE TRASH BOI

I gotta throw up concept art of him

Original Baldur circa 2014!

He's vintage

annemagnew

It might have been better for the girls if Tyr was their mentor. He’s got far fewer issues about his dad than Baldur!

AndreaRosales

Baldur circa 2016!

annemagnew

Fun fact: Baldur’s entire outfit is lifted from the Balmain men’s catalogue, ca. 2014, when I wrote the first draft of chapter one.

MathTans

Tossing out the mention of Baldur's wife was clever. Helped to hint at his age and stop the shipping before it might've gotten rolling.

anne: that's awesome trivia.

RebelVampire

lol math you think thatll stop the shipping

annemagnew

please dont ship baldur with his dad/wanda with her son (also wanda's gay)

AndreaRosales

Fun fact! Rumiko Takahashi was a HUGE influence on the way that I ink Wanda's hair! I love her work!!

DracoPlato

rumiko is awesome~

annemagnew

i mean, like, do whatever you want, but also, Please Don't™

MathTans

RebelV: Eh, maybe not - I mostly ship yuri anyway though.

DracoPlato

loooooool

AndreaRosales

Look at these two dooooorks

MathTans

Was that an image of Shampoo?

DracoPlato

yis

AndreaRosales

Rumiko is the best!!

annemagnew

shampoo is the best ranma girl

RebelVampire

QUESTION 2. This comic is directly influenced by Norse mythology, with the plot being about reincarnated Norse gods (Wanda being an incarnation of Odin). Was there any allusion that particularly struck you? Or, if you’re not familiar with Norse mythology, is there anything you wish you had a better grasp of to understand the story? Lastly, what do you think happened in the past that caused so many of the gods to be reborn?

AndreaRosales

Fun fact! Sometimes I get sections of my sketches done well in my sketchbook. Those sketches aren't always right next to each other, so I just stitch them together in Photoshop to make the final page layout.

Sometimes I get lucky and manage to sketch it all out right on the first take.

MathTans

A Norse is a Norse, of course, of course... honestly, I don't really feel like my lack of myth knowledge (outside of Marvel cinema and Dirk Gently) is a hinderance to enjoyment, and I don't really feel impelled to look into it. Though I do feel like reading the comic heightened my awareness.

As to what happened in the past... Odin wanted to see how the other half lived, and others were on board with that? Dunno.

AndreaRosales

@MathTans , you are great with puns!

DracoPlato

For me I felt a disconnect between Wanda and Odin and would have liked it more if she seemed more similar to Odin in a way that made me go, oh yeah, she totally was him

MathTans

Aw, thank you. ^^

RebelVampire

man math you are missing out on so many allusions :"D

MathTans

I don't doubt it.

AndreaRosales

I didn't know much 'bout Norse mythos as I mentioned earlier, so Anne let me borrow the Prose Edda and I read it in a week. Riveting stuff.

MathTans

Andrea - the stitching's neat, I hadn't even really thought about that aspect.

AndreaRosales

Thanks!

MathTans

Draco: Like more of a fatherly figure, or which? Just curious, not knowing the mythos as well.

DracoPlato

Yeah, or even more of just a connection to anything norse at all

RebelVampire

i cant pick an allusion i like most because i like them all. i fangirled a lot and had to stop myself to remain focused

annemagnew

We actually have the reason why on our About The Comic page, ahaha. TL;DR: Odin didn't feel like being dead forever, roped his favorites (and not so favorites) into reincarnating. It was a bad move, cosmically speaking. Thanks, Odin! What a great guy!!!!!

AndreaRosales

Other times I get ultra mega lucky and all the pencil roughs next to each other work out just fine! Anyway, back to mythos chat!

DracoPlato

for me Wanda read very much as a typical protag, and the norse stuff was just sort of pasted on but not really part of her

RebelVampire

@AndreaRosales whatever works. sometimes just gotta work with what you got the stitching is definitely creative

AndreaRosales

Odin wanted to keep cracking out cool ones with the gang.

RebelVampire

odin please maybe the others just wanted to vacation

JudgementScythe

lol

AndreaRosales

@RebelVampire Thank you! I like to see how I can piece things together. Working on comic layouts is a lot like piecing together a puzzle.

MathTans

The gypsy take (uh, should I even use that word?) is interesting, I felt like it tied into the "travelling to other lands" aspect. But maybe that takes away a bit from Norse origins? I don't know.

annemagnew

Odin: We could be dead forever. Or, hear me out.... we could not

Please don't use that world, but thank you for asking

She is Romani, though.

AndreaRosales

Odin had some free pizza coupons he needed to use! Also, "Gypsy" isn't the word to use. Wanda is Romani!

MathTans

Wanda does seem more reticent than a "typical protag", but maybe that's just me in terms of what I read.

Romani, thank you. (Derp.)

AndreaRosales

All good!

MathTans

I knew there was a term out there. >.< Cleverly set up with the nasty girls using 'gyp', by the way.

annemagnew

Also, @DracoPlato -- I totally get you. Connecting Wanda to Odin was something I've worked with. Without getting into too many details/future reveals: her mother (and father, before he died) didn't raise a terrible person, but that took work. There's something in Wanda's core character that connects her more to Odin as well, and re-discovering that is a part of her arc.

DracoPlato

ah, that's good if it can circle back around to it at least

MathTans

Odin bought a time share but it's only good every other century.

AndreaRosales

First ever drawing of the "God Squad"! Our first 3 gals of the series. Got my ladies in formation! Circa 2015.

MathTans

WHOA. Two weaponing with one of them being that axe? Daaaamn.

Nice shadows.

JudgementScythe

yeah I'm really excited to get to Aish. She's going to be the tank of the party and is SO GOOD

annemagnew

Freyja on the left and and Ullr on the right. Ullr I chose because I thought it would be fun, but actually, writing a character connected to a god whose mythological presence has been mostly erased is Hard

MathTans

Tank you very much.

annemagnew

@JudgementScythe i love tank sailor venus

MathTans

Now I want to see her with a love-me chain.

AndreaRosales

Our precious badass daughter WADNA!

Aish's design is awesome. She's got a sword like Ivy from Soul Calibur. I love drawing that.

annemagnew

@MathTans she has an evolving weapon. @AndreaRosales , do you have the bookmark for her? She's got a link sword there.

Yup, there it is

AndreaRosales

Just posted it, Anne!

@annemagnew I think you mean " WHOOMP THERE IT IS"

MathTans

So here's a question that you don't have to answer, but... are all the gods reincarnated at about the same age? Or is there some kind of hierarchy thing?

annemagnew

also true

MathTans

That is indeed a link sword. Shades of Signum from Nanoha.

AndreaRosales

I can't wait to draw ULLR just doing a crazy cool ski-by on some draugar.

annemagnew

They're all in the same age group, at the most three years apart. I think Freyja's older than most of them. Wanda and Ullr are the same age.

MathTans

nods And I'm guessing Baltur's wife is a reference I don't get.

RebelVampire

ah thats probably good. dont need to have any old folks cramping their style.

annemagnew

@MathTans Nanna is Baldur's wife. She and their son Forseti are ruling Asgard in his absence.

AndreaRosales

We did a promotional mini comic sample thingy back when we debuted at Rose City Comic Con in 2015. You can see a bit more here of how weapons look, etc.

annemagnew

fun fact: forseti actually looks older than his dad does

DracoPlato

oh that's really cool~!

AndreaRosales

@annemagnew It's not the years, it's the mileage!

MathTans

Wow, you did a debut at a Con? Neat.

RebelVampire

ah that page makes me look forward to future action scenes

AndreaRosales

Well, the first time we were about to launch, we took a mini comic

DracoPlato

nice!

MathTans

I guess having a dad like Baldur ages you faster on the outside.

Also I cannot spell.

annemagnew

I see Baldur as a pretty good father, actually. Much better than Odin was.

AndreaRosales

Here's a rough pencil of the next page of that mini comic we did. I was super giddy that I got to do some super cool action stuff.

MathTans

He does seem like he's doing his best, that's for sure.

annemagnew

Of the Odinssons, Baldur and Tyr turned out the most normal and well-adjusted. Unfortunately, Baldur has tons of issues about his dad that Tyr never did.

MathTans

Oh, wait... those two people communicating through the tree, were they his wife and son?

AndreaRosales

Guys, Baldur is trying so hard man! Dad jokes are hard to do!

annemagnew

No, those were the Norns. Two of them, Verdandi and Urd.

DracoPlato

gorgeous action panels~!

MathTans

<-- is a neophyte, or something.

AndreaRosales

@DracoPlato Thank you!!

RebelVampire

i just wanna say i really like Baldur as a character. i especially like that scene where theyre in the restaurant and wanda hides. and then baldur comes in and is like "i know youre there." i totally expected him to just walk on by, but nope. he was a smart boy.

DracoPlato

I'm enjoying Baldur as well

JudgementScythe

He's dumb. but he's not dumb dumb.

MathTans

I liked when Wanda's mom was all "where do you know her from?" and Baldur's like "....School?"

DracoPlato

haha i liked that too

JudgementScythe

WAIT WADNA I JUST TOLD YOU YOU WERE MY REINCARNATED DAD WHY ARE YOU LOOKING AT ME FUNNY WHAT IT'S NOT CREEPY OR WEIRD AT ALL

DracoPlato

she should have embraced fatherhood

MathTans

"Go to your room."

RebelVampire

yeah i do have to wonder how baldur thought thatd go at all well XD like you dont just tell some teen theyre your dad.

annemagnew

he wants his dad to pay attention to him and tell him he's doing a good job (he is doing a good job right???? TELL HIM HE'S GOOD)

DracoPlato

poor baby

just wants some love

MathTans

Baldur needs head pats.

annemagnew

a decent amount of my favorite male characters remind me of this scene from IASIP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBfnOtiJOWw

RebelVampire

wanda just needs to tell baldur shes going to the store to buy milk. then not come back. problem solved.

DracoPlato

oooh i really like the blue there

RebelVampire

ah im glad to see huginn and muninn in there too >v>

DracoPlato

yis

AndreaRosales

A Baldur from the character cards we give out at conventions!

MathTans

I wonder if Baldur has the stones for his task. Like, assuming all nine gods have stones.

AndreaRosales

Whoops, lol sorry for the double post

my computer is slow.

All the artwork on a 7 year old machine... ooooof

MathTans

Eh, my phone's older than that.

RebelVampire

(sppt math maybe get a new phone)

DracoPlato

is it a flip phone

MathTans

It has one of those little retractable antennas. Anyway. No prob if old computer.

DracoPlato

oooomg it has an antenna XD that is old

MathTans

I iz old. >.<

RebelVampire

QUESTION 3. At home, Wanda faces a lot of pressure from her mother to excel in her studies and pull herself out of their living situation. What do you think of this situation? Does the fact that they’re hinted to be discriminated against because they’re Romani affect your opinion? Do you think Wanda and her mother will be able to see eye to eye?

DracoPlato

wanda kicking ass

i had one too math, it's okay

I just don't use it now

MathTans

It's fair. As a teacher I'm not allowed to use a cell phone anyway, so haven't upgraded. (Btw, as a teacher, I also wanted to slap Wanda's teacher, but at the same time I could see where she was coming from.)

AndreaRosales

This has to be one of my absolutely FAVORITE goof images I've done while drawing this comic. I do a lot of em'. The relationship between Baldur and Wanda is one that I enjoy depicting a lot. I can't wait for all the fun shenanagins I'll get to draw them in later in the comic!

MathTans

"Baldur. I am your father."

DracoPlato

oh that's fair

and loooool

AndreaRosales

Oooh I like this question. They've all been super good so far!

DracoPlato

with the teacher, she should have known if the other girl's grades had drastically improved when wanda transferred there tho, perhaps

annemagnew

Wanda's time at school - and the teacher's dig at her - is a direct reference to how Romani students are discriminated against in Czech schooling.

MathTans

As to the living situation away from school, it felt genuine. (Painful, but genuine.) I'm not sure about the eye-to-eye thing, but they may both need some space for now.

AndreaRosales

Romani aren't treated well/respected in "mainstream" European society.

annemagnew

>> Roma children in the Czech Republic were segregated into “special schools” with poor curricula, lower teaching standards, and very few resources. “Testing” these children was a culturally biased process that resulted in the majority of them being pushed into the special education system. The system also segregated children with additional learning needs, unlike the inclusive education systems in the UK, Sweden, or other countries (https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/czech-republic-segregation-roma-children-continues)

MathTans

Draco - True, guess I felt like it was still start of the semester or something. Pretty sure her opinion was coloured by racism too, is the thing, so she didn't look for other explanations.

DracoPlato

yeah that could be

MathTans

Anne: That's kind of sad, but nice that it's authentic.

RebelVampire

yeah i really applaud the research into it

DracoPlato

my only issue with the bullying is I've read a ton of comics that start that way with the protag recently so I was a bit tired of the trope, so i have a bias there

MathTans

Friggin' "testing" mumble wumble argle wargle fargle.

I'm fine.

(I don't even teach in the US.)

AndreaRosales

I find myself being easily able to relate to Wanda.. my parents are Mexican and there was always that push growing up to be academically successful. That Romani are given such poor schooling is setting them up for failure and it's such a sad thing. It's something that's happened in a lot of places in the world. It's heartbreaking that Wanda is clearly very intelligent, but her brilliance can't be fully appreciated in such a biased school system.

JudgementScythe

the US testing system is so bad. I remember when they first really instituted it and it's like...take this multiple choice test to decide how much funding your school gets

AndreaRosales

That's so awful.

JudgementScythe

NO GIMME ESSAY QUESTIONS CAUSE THAT"S ALL I'M GOOD AT

MathTans

Somehow I made this talk about my job. Back to home life.

DracoPlato

teaching always relevant

MathTans

But it reminds me I have papers to mark.

I'm like Baldur. I want to do a good job.

Haha, steered it back.

AndreaRosales

You're doing a great job!

RebelVampire

i can understand both sides to the situation of their home life. cause i can understand why wanda's mom would want her to break the mold. but i side a bit more with wanda in that i think theres just way too much pressure

DracoPlato

oh cool inking~!

RebelVampire

as for seeing eye to eye, i could see them not being able to get over the odin thing.

AndreaRosales

Thanks! I really wanted to go for a high contrasty dramatic lighting thingy. Haha, I'm no good with words.. it's why I draw.

MathTans

I wonder how much Wanda's mom knows about the mythology thing. (Maybe the undead will make her read up.)

JudgementScythe

But yes... The home life was a really interesting thing to figure out. Wanda's home life, the pressure. The build. I want my life but because of my blood, I need to work 10x harder than anyone else for the same things and even then people will say I'm cheating for what I get

MathTans

Andrea - You do puns, that's good words.

annemagnew

(The bullying and constant pressure are part of why she's less like Odin than she used to be.)

AndreaRosales

I have a feeling we might get some insight into Wanda's childhood at some point... @annemagnew ?

MathTans

I would imagine Odin didn't get bullied much.

annemagnew

Wanda's mother wants her to break the mold, but in the mold she wants.

MathTans

Oooh, smol Wanda.

AndreaRosales

Hehe.. seeing eye to eye... Odin... good one, @RebelVampire !

annemagnew

@AndreaRosales no spoilers

MathTans

We saw a bit of that already, with the stargazing scene.

AndreaRosales

Gosh @annemagnew I just wanna share all the concept art and it's driving me crazy!

Uguuuu

MathTans

patpats

AndreaRosales

babbu Wanda is the most precious thing I've ever been fortunate to draw.

@annemagnew THANK YOU for writing babbu Wanda!

annemagnew

Yeah, part of the fun with her was, as I built the character, realizing her life circumstances are the exact opposite of her past life's. There's a core to her that's still Odin, but her circumstances and her context are so different.

AndreaRosales

A really great contrast of nature v. nurture!

MathTans

A bit of the nature versus .... Andrea wins.

annemagnew

That's true for a lot of them, actually. There are reincarnations who have contexts very similar to their previous lives', and others who have better (or worse) ones.

MathTans

It's nice that there's a mix that way.

Is it one volume per reincarnation for a total of nine? Or is that too far in the future to know?

AndreaRosales

Another goof!

annemagnew

Honestly the way I see this story going, it's going to run F O R E V E R

AndreaRosales

GOOD

I'm glad, @annemagnew because I seriously want to draw this forever.

MathTans

Hmmm.... and yet time passes in the real world. Like Indonesia might look different in ten years. Parallel Earth to the rescue maybe.

AndreaRosales

Here's a fun take on the toppling over due to sword weight page. Wanda's face in that last panel...

RebelVampire

poor wanda really needs to start working out. work on those sword wielding muscles

annemagnew

The way I see it right now - which I reserve the right to change! - the story starts in The Fall of whenever you started to read it, and ends in the following year's spring

@RebelVampire she gets a strength buff whenever she transforms

RebelVampire

lucky :"D

MathTans

So there might be a Christmas Episode.

annemagnew

Nanna thinks everything he wears is good. Which, you know. She's not wrong in this case, but that outfit is just... A Lot

RebelVampire

i really liked the art on the draugr. like when i saw them i definitely knew what they were and there's just something really appealing about them. in a theyre draugr kind of way.

DracoPlato

love the tails behind her~!

AndreaRosales

@annemagnew I'll have you know I'm animating the Christmas special.

annemagnew

Fun fact! Baldur's topwear is three layers: Leather jacket, blue sweater, full plate armor. (You get killed by mistletoe once...)

MathTans

"Zombies" "Draugr. And no."

AndreaRosales

OH NOESSSS!!!!

AndreaRosales

@annemagnew I don't think Baldur is quite fond of Christmas decor...

DracoPlato

Looooooool

RebelVampire

this is how wanda will escape him. trap him in a room of mistletoe then make a run for it

MathTans

Oooh, good point.

annemagnew

i'm not saying mistletoe is banned in new asgard, but i am saying it's considered in poor taste these days

AndreaRosales

Mistletoe is totally banned.

MathTans

I would imagine it tastes bad, yes.

annemagnew

baldur: you can hang it. it's fine. it's a traditional decoration gersemi: but you don't want us to hang it baldur: i didn't say that

MathTans

It's all in the cringe.

AndreaRosales

Fun fact! Anne had me reference Al Ewing's Mighty Avengers for the way that the Draugar lunge out. There's a fantastic panel of Ayala doing that in that comic.

RebelVampire

now im just picturing baldur glaring through a window, watching them to say with his eyes you better not actually hang that

AndreaRosales

Gods, I just love the image of Baldur death glaring the mistletoe away.

annemagnew

it's coming off as passive-aggressive, but he was trying to be polite and accommodating (and okay maybe a little passive-aggressive)

AndreaRosales

Mistletoe? More like mistle-don't!

MathTans

Miss-letoe.

annemagnew

baldur: i'm the god-king of the universe, not a tyrant

(some elf or whatever: can we establish a democracy then baldur: how did you get in my castle)

AndreaRosales

Fun fact! All 3 of us creators are in the most recent page of 9T! We're all in the dance club together!

MathTans

The two ravens, there's no connection to Sailor Mars, is there?

DracoPlato

awwww that's awesome

RebelVampire

ah thats cute. the more i look at that bg the more i can see how much fun stuff went into it

MathTans

Andrea: That's, like, the best easter egg. I was too focussed on He-man.

AndreaRosales

Teamwork makes the dream work!

Backgrounds can be super fun!

annemagnew

@MathTans the two ravens are Huginn and Munnin, Odin's ravens from the mythology

AndreaRosales

This isn't the first time Anne's been in the comic!

annemagnew

They're patterned here off of Pied Ravens, which were native to the Faroe Islands before they went extinct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pied_raven

MathTans

@annemagnew Ok, cool, I suspected a mythology link was dominent but suddenly thought I'd check.

annemagnew

#DeadStuff

Fun Fact! Everything and everyone important in this story has been dead, is dead, or will be dead at some point

AndreaRosales

That's Anne in the front seat in front of Wanda on the bus!

@annemagnew true! my hand is dead from drawing so much!

MathTans

Wanda: "What are you writing?" Anne: "Uhhhh...."

AndreaRosales

it's also undead and keeps returning to life

MathTans

Also, that panel had the "she knows me" look that I caught and liked.

RebelVampire

QUESTION 4. Towards the end of the first chapter, Wanda and Baldur find themselves attacked by Draugr. It later becomes apparent that these Draugr are being controlled. Who do you think is controlling the Draugr to attack Wanda? What are their end goals and do they have anything to do with the current peril the world is supposedly in?

AndreaRosales

Wanda skips cardio day.. yet she runs a lot?

MathTans

Oh yeah, crystal ball person who's likely Norse that I don't know.

The goal is presumably not to perfect reviving the undead in order to restore a family back to life.

AndreaRosales

Fun fact! That's Chris and I getting dinner at the restaurant where Wanda and Sari are!

JudgementScythe

That's definitely a thing that we get into over the next chapters. Chapter 3 is currently pretty big. Anne and I are reworking parts of the script to really fine tune it but yeah. The end of chapter 2 and chapter 3 definitely hit on that front

MathTans

But yeah, here's the thing... if he's (gender guessing there) testing Wanda, is it possible that he'd end up killing her in the process? Would that just mean Odin revives again at some later date? Is it even possible that this did happen before, person was tested and failed and Wanda's the latest in a long line of reincarnations?

(I'm just spitballing here, no need to feel you have to answer.)

RebelVampire

@JudgementScythe looking forward to it being addressed soon then.

MathTans

And if it's not a matter of testing, what's the grudge?

RebelVampire

i feel like if there were a long line of reincarnations, thatd be sad. so many ppl whose worlds were rocked cause baldur hunted them down O_O

MathTans

(Maybe it's back to the mistletoe thing.)

Yeah, though maybe Baldur didn't find the others in time or something.

AndreaRosales

Fun fact! This page's color scheme was heavily inspired by the cinematography in John Wick.

MathTans

Oh, speaking of colours, is there a particular reason why some pages get coloured? Or simply a time thing?

JudgementScythe

We wanted to set apart magic from the real world. When the magic is on...sort of Wizard of Ozzy

annemagnew

It was born out of timing, but think of the color as akin to an FMV in an old video game as well.

AndreaRosales

Wizard of Ozzy sans the eating of Huginn and Muginn

MathTans

snaps fingers Gotcha. Interesting.

FMV?

annemagnew

Whe we meet a new character, something very important happens, or it's magic time, we switch to color.

Full Motion Video

AndreaRosales

Yep!

MathTans

Ahhhh. (Stop... Magic Time! Dun deedundundundun...)

RebelVampire

oh that makes sense for the color vs. B&W thing

AndreaRosales

Hehehehe.. nice! @MathTans

RebelVampire

i really admire the city sho4

the city shot

MathTans

^.^ Indeed. Apparently there's a lot going on in backgrounds too.

RebelVampire

my cat decided to jump on the keyboard in that moment

annemagnew

I love your cat

JudgementScythe

It's one of the things I love. Too many artists ignore the background

Like I can't name the amount of comics I've read or been pitched that had no detail. Comics need detail

annemagnew

Andrea never skimps on the details :)

AndreaRosales

Thanks! Detail drives me crazy, but once I start getting into it, I REALLY get into it.

JudgementScythe

And there are a lot of people who ignore that element

AndreaRosales

OH MY GOOOOOOOD DO I TRY

I TRYYY ALL THE TIME

MathTans

One thing I've noticed a couple times, placement of words balloons doesn't quite flow... like, I'll read one, and then the next one I read I'll realize for context should have come first. It doesn't happen that often, and it might just be me not deciphering heights properly, but thought I'd mention it on the side.

AndreaRosales

Here's an early concept painty of Wanda! March 2015!

MathTans

In your institution?

AndreaRosales

@MathTans Yes, in my institution

I'm so happy I got to throw He-man Hey YAYAYAYA in there

Originally, Anne and I had talked about having Wanda and Sari go to karaoke.

and I wanted Wanda to sing that

MathTans

Heh. I used that meme myself once, kinda. I can't do backgrounds though, I can barely draw characters. So, mad props.

AndreaRosales

Like the joke would be that that was the big Euro-pop jam

DracoPlato

Ah yeah Math I had that same issue

with the speech bubbles

a lot of times i felt like i'd missed a page or I was somehow reading it wrong, the dialogue was often really confusing

MathTans

It happened more in the early pages, I feel.

Celes, the Sun of the Universe

@AndreaRosales that looks amazing!! (both the painting and the comic)

DracoPlato

yeah definitely more earlier on

JudgementScythe

speech bubbles are hard. You can see it took a while to get used to. It's one of the reasons it drives me crazy that letterers are so underpaid

AndreaRosales

Sketchbooks on my desk at my old apt./studio space!

JudgementScythe

same with colorists

MathTans

Fair.

AndreaRosales

Ahhh!! Thank you, @Celes, the Sun of the Universe !! I'm barely figuring out digital painting!

I've never taken a painting class in my life!

I'm wingin' it.

DracoPlato

ah I guess, generally it's good just to find the line of eye movement with them when reading

AndreaRosales

I studied graphic design and minored in animation in college.

Graphic design is my passion.

(actually no, comics arting is)

DracoPlato

like you should have the bubble you want read first higher than the next one

AndreaRosales

Lettering is HARD.

MathTans

Yeah. Though sometimes it was higher and yet my brain still tracked right to left.

JudgementScythe

like colors and lettering are incredibly difficult. And yet industry standards are like under $30 a page for colors on an indy book.

AndreaRosales

@JudgementScythe was really on my case about it at first.

DracoPlato

yeah same

AndreaRosales

He helped me get so much better at it

Coloring is super hard too.

MathTans

It's all about improving.

AndreaRosales

I've got MAD respect for colorists too.

I thumbnail, pencil, ink, shade, color, letter and do all graphic design/social media art for Nine Twilights.

JudgementScythe

and that's one of the things I love about the book. Look at page 1 and the latest. You can tell it's the same artist, but it's so good to see the growth she's gone through since the start

AndreaRosales

It can be a lot. Luckily, @annemagnew and @JudgementScythe are super great to work with. They're always looking for ways for making things easier for me.

MathTans

Much like the protagonist? ^.-

AndreaRosales

Oooh

I'll post page 1 and the most recent page!

Celes, the Sun of the Universe

@AndreaRosales you're welcome <3

MathTans

The website, also, good job on that. It even sparkles over the links. O.o

Sometimes it's the little things.

JudgementScythe

Yeah there are some things I really want to do with it to make it a little easier to update. But I'm happy with how it came out.

DracoPlato

oh with the website I had a lot of difficulty reading on there. Your Archive isn't up to date, and the clicking the image to go to the next page stopped working around where the archive left off, and your next arrow is at the top of the page and not the bottom, which makes me have to scroll back up to go to the next page which is super annoying

and it'd be super helpful if clicking the arrow keys would go to the next page and previous

i think i have a code for it if you want

JudgementScythe

Those are exactly the updates I want to make

DracoPlato

yeah I think it super needs it cause it was almost unreadable

AndreaRosales

Hey thanks @DracoPlato ! That's our next big project. Making the site easier to navigate.

JudgementScythe

well. It's also set up to click on the page takes you to the next page. But yeah currently there are nice things but boy howdy do I want to fix a lot of that stuff

RebelVampire

@AndreaRosales yeah comparing the pages you can definitely see so much growth in the art, and that's just super great~!

DracoPlato

yeah we were clicking the pages but that stopped working after awhile

MathTans

Really? Huh. I guess I only clicked on 'Next', so I didn't see a problem.

Though the scrolling back up for the next is something that could be amended.

JudgementScythe

oh I'll have to go back through and make sure all that is fixed up this weekend.

DracoPlato

yeah would love a next arrow button on the bottom of the page or the side

http://www.smackjeeves.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15038

Oh i think this is it for the keyboard arrows

AndreaRosales

Oh gosh... thank you so much @RebelVampire ! I'm melting! I really push myself a LOT to get better and better with each page. Do let me know if there's things that I can work on that improve the readability of action, backgrounds, etc.

AndreaRosales

Behind the scenes look! I ink my pages on my cintiq whilst jamming to Star Wars OST, or some other random video game OST...

MathTans

The amount of extra detail in those pages is crazy. Like night and day. Which... is almost a pun? Meh.

AndreaRosales

Awww.. I'm so proud! @MathTans

RebelVampire

@AndreaRosales i think math and draco both pointed out the most major issue already with the speech bubble flow. otherwise i think youre on the right track.

MathTans

Also, kudos/props for consistency in that first year and everything. That can be tricky.

Like, in terms of updates.

DracoPlato

yis~!

AndreaRosales

We have these super cute buttons of Baldur, pouty Wanda, Sari and Zora we sell at conventions! They're my fave.

MathTans

Those are cool.

AndreaRosales

Thanks so much for the advice, @RebelVampire !! That is so super helpful!

I was super worried about posting consistency

it's probably one of the biggest reasons why I was reluctant at first to join the team. I didn't feel confident that I could keep up.

MathTans

It'll be neat to see where things go!

AndreaRosales

I'm super glad that I was able to make it work, even when I got super sick this past winter/spring.

JudgementScythe

Yeah we didn't miss an update. Then illness and other things ate our backlog which is why we've switched to wednesdays and are taking a little time off to keep things from completely overwhelming her

AndreaRosales

I had to get surgery this past April. It was no bueno. I'm much better now though.

MathTans

It's all good. Make sure to stay healthy. Whoa, surgery even. O.o

All the best going forwards.

RebelVampire

glad to hear youre doing better~!

Unfortunately, the scheduled Comic Tea Party is now complete~! Thank you everyone so much for joining this week’s chat~! That being said, if you would like to continue discussing the comic, we encourage you to do so~! We want to give a big thank you to Andrea Rosales, Anne Mortensen-Agnew, and Chris Hansbrough, as well, for volunteering Nine Twilights for our reading queue. If you liked the comic, please be sure to support the team’s efforts. If you have questions, concerns, or suggestions about CTP, please feel free to PM me, or e-mail me at [email protected].

With that said, next week’s Comic Tea Party will focus on The Changeling’s Sister by yondoloki. Please use this week to read as much of the comic as you would like. Hope to see you next Thursday (September 21st) from 5PM to 7PM PDT~! Until then~! Comic: https://tapas.io/series/The-Changelings-Sister

#comics #webcomics #indiecomics #ctparchive #comic tea party #comicteaparty #ctp #start faire #startfaire #comic chat #comic discussion #bookclub #comic bookclub #nine twilights #andrea rosales #anne mortensen-agnew #chris hansbrough

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titleknown · 7 years ago

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Abomination Foundry: Making Mine Marvel. Mine I Say! MINE!

EXCELSIOR TRUE BELIEVERS!

I’m stuck here in the middle of Earth-404 by the horrible nightmare of Marvel’s existential collapse, and I’ve decided to make gross moldy lemons to make bitter unpleasant lemonade by remaking the ALL NEW, ALL STUPID MARVEL UNIVERSE, copyright-law be damned! Though the names will be changed because copyright law deserves to be damned.

This will be done in Heromachine, the dollmaker-bane of Open Source Character Design but good for aesthetic shitposting!

Alright, let’s go, past the jump!

So, what is the first being in the Marvel Universe? Galactus of course!

Yes look it up if you don’t believe me, they were the first, made from a being from the previous universe who jumped into the Big Crunch and was told “Sorry, your universe is ending, but hey to make up for it here’s some cool Cosmic Vore powers!”

And, as a being from the end of the last universe, I figured any not-Galactus should be an advanced being! And what is more advanced than the deadly King Cobra? NOTHING! NOTHING I SAY! And since she’s a being that A) Mainly travels through space and B) Eats everything, I figured all she needs is head, arms to bring food towards head, and lots and lots of rockets!

I call her King Kirby, because lord knows Jack Kirby deserves more credit in our ALL NEW; ALL DIFFERENT MARVEL UNIVERSE! And yes, our not-Galactus is a girl now. They’re all girls now. EAT ME!

It’s said that the two main American artforms are rock-n-roll and comics, and since we’re already working on the latter, I think an updated Captain American deserves the former!

Meet Captain Rock-N-Roll, given AWESOME JUICE created by the only scientist awesome enough to create a soldier with the power of rock-n-roll several decades before rock-n-roll was invented to beat the living FUCK out of some nazis!

Then suddenly some asshole comic book writer whose name rimes with Sick Nencer came through time to try and change things so the Nazis won. The scientist was so busy punching him super hard in the dick that he didn’t notice his lab was on fire, and thusly only one copy of the AWESOME JUICE survived. It was given to a black woman because it was the only one it’d work on and also because it’d be really stupid and terrible if a white dude was the first rock-n-roll powered hero.

She was frozen post-World-War-II via being too cool for this world, but punched her way out out of sheer rage when post-Grunge was invented because FUCK POST-GRUNGE! She not only has all the peak-human abilities of classic-Cap, but also a shield with speakers that turn her HOT LICKS into defending/deadly soundwaves. And an also a guitar-gun because ROCK-N-ROLL MOTHERFUCKERS!

Okay, so Iron Man AKA Captain Privelege is a rich dude, and I think we can all agree FUCK RICH DUDES!

So our newest Iron Man would be poor as shit; a homeless lady sleeping in a junkyard that collapsed into the earth in an earthquake and saying FUCK THIS and building herself a robot-suit out of the crap she was trapped under.

Since she made it IN A CAVE-IN, WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS, I thought it should look like it; like junk that can punch you.

Hence her name, Junk Puncher. I see no alternate meanings to this that are comical or clever.

And boo hoo, Tony Stark has a heart problem, FUCK THAT! She lost her FUCKING LEGS in that cave in and replaced them with FUCKING SWEET ROBOT-LEGS! Which is also why she doesn’t have a secret-identity because YOU CAN’T HAVE A SECRET IDENTITY WITH FUCKIN SWEET ROBO-LEGS!

Okay, much like the Marvel Cinematic Universe I had almost no idea what the fuck to do with Hulk here, until I thought, The Hulk is based on id run rampant? So what’s a primally indulgent aesthetic filled with id run rampant? Furries!

Thusly, Yiff Hulk was born! Or Yiff for copyright-dodging short. She’s purple because the Hulk became green instead of grey due to printing grey in old comics being a massive pain in the dick; so I chose what is currently the most obnoxious color to print. Because RESPECT!

Her origin’s pretty much the same as regular-Hulk complete with traumatic childhood abuse by a shitty father except she was a huge furry beforehand. And also that her adventures are also very, very not safe for the Comics Code Authority. For obvious reasons.

For Hawkeye, the shitty Avenger nobody likes, I decided; you know what would make them more interesting? Being an actual hawk. And fuck that useless “arrows” bullshit, this is the 21st century, give her some big fuckin guns already! Call ‘em fuckin Gunbird!

This is likely even less faithful to the original character than everything else I’ve done, but the best part of it is, nobody gives enough of a shit about Hawkeye to care! Fuck that guy!

Oh. I had intended to make a Black Widow revamp, but this is just a Perfectly Normal Secret Agent Lady, who is definitely not thens of thousands of spiders in a trenchcoat lead by a singular “queen,” because the Russians did all sorts of wacky bullshit during the cold war. I don’t know what happened, but she turned out thoroughly unremarkable, so MOVING ALONG!

You know, in revamping Spider-Man, folks almost always go Cronenberg-style body-horror because spider or robots because Japan, but NOBODY’S DONE BOTH BEFORE, HAVE THEY?!

So, Petit Parnell-Ko was bitten by a radioactive robot spider, and through the power of NANOMACHINES SON she became an arthropod/robot abomination. All those guns shoot webbing, both in the “biologically-accurate” and the “not-gross” positions, and after her Aunt Benni died due to a deranged pro-wrestler she let pass, she realized “With great screaming body-horror powers comes great; horrifying responsibility” And thusly; Nightmareborg Hellspider was born!

You fuckin’ thought High School was bad? Well, it is, but it’s even worse when you’re a BIOMECHANICAL SPIDER NIGHTMARE, NO BULLSHIT SECRET IDENTITIES WE DEAL WITH PROBLEMS LIKE PROPER SCIENCE-ABOMINATIONS!

And yes she does get a robot, which by sheer coincidence is from space. Which I need to make in a later one of these.

And; finally, re-inventing Thor or Loki is kinda needless given they’re already public domain, albeit Thor would have to be more red-haired and muscular-Brian-Blessed-y. But you know who isn’t? Beta-Ray Bill.

If you don’t know who that is; it’s basically a fucked-up atheist space-horse-alien who yoinked Thor’s hammer to save his world, being one of the very few beings pure of heart enough to carry it, and who did such a good job that Odin made him his own hammer. Because comics are fucking awesome sometimes.

So, I made Gamma-Ray Guen, who is pretty similar in terms of backstory except I added more horse. And more cyborg. And instead of a hammer she gets the magical staff Spacebreaker/Brestaginnung because ODIN HAS A SENSE OF HUMOR ABOUT THESE THINGS, OKAY!

So, that’s all I did today, but I will make some villains, eventually! Or the X-Men or Fantastic Four I couldn’t be arsed to do. But first, I must go to do other things! Like working on the novella I am terrible about writing! Or probably something else!

And remember, while the exact images are the property of the Dollmaker-makers, the designs and concepts are free to use under a CC-BY license; with me Thomas F. Johnson credited as creator and the pics declared as a decent starting point!

Feel free to redesign/redraw them as done by an actual unique stylist not working with pre-made assets! Until then EXCELSIOR!

#dollmakers #heromachine #marvel comics #character design #abomination foundry #superheroes #beta-ray bill

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gokinjeespot · 5 years ago

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off the rack #1289

Monday, November 25, 2019

I understand why there has to be ads in comic books but the ones in recent DC comics are super annoying. There's the two page ad for Snickers candy bars and another one for Me TV. They are both comic book pages and disrupts the flow of my reading. I hate them. I don't mind the single page ads for other DC comics but those two page ads are a pain in the ass.

Gwenpool Strikes Back #4 - Christopher Hastings (writer page 2) Leah Williams (writer all the other pages) David Baldeon (art) Jesus Aburtov (colours) VC's Joe Caramagna (letters). We get down to the final challenge for Gwenpool's comic book life. Find out who she faces on the last page. It's a shocker.

Batman Superman #4 - Joshua Williamson (writer) David Marquez (art) Alejandro Sanchez (colours) John J. Hill (letters). This is the issue that puts the good guys on the brink of defeat after a valiant effort to stop The Batman Who Laughs and his infected followers. The art in this issue was noticeably good.

King Thor #3 - Jason Aaron (writer) Esad Ribic (art) Ive Svorcina (colours) Das Pastoras (art & colours pages 5-9) VC's Joe Sabino (letters). This is it. The God Butcher near triumphant. Can King Thor bring life to the Necroverse and save the entire universe? I sure hope so.

Punisher Kill Krew #5 - Gerry Duggan (writer) Juan Ferreyra (art) VC's Cory Petit (letters). This story ended in typical fashion with the good guys killing the bad guy and returning to Earth. I liked this finale for showing a softer side of Frank Castle.

Conan the Barbarian #11 - Jason Aaron (writer) Mahmud Asrar (art) Matthew Wilson (colours) VC's Travis Lanham (letters). Conan meets Crom. I loved how Mahmud used one of Frank Frazetta's paintings as a model for Crom. You'll recognise the headpiece if you're a Frazetta fan. King Conan is dead. Long live King Conan. This will make sense when you get to the last page of this issue.

The Question: The Deaths of Vic Sage #1 - Jeff Lemire (writer) Denys Cowan (pencils) Bill Sienkiewicz (inks) Chris Sotomayor (colours) Willie Schubert (letters). I always thought of the Question as being a darker more serious version of Will Eisner's the Spirit but this opens with him acting more like the Riddler. I don't remember him asking the bad guys questions before. I thought the name had more to do with who was behind the faceless mask and finding the answers to solve a crime. I wasn't thrilled with the occult element to this story either. I didn't like how almost all of the faces were static and expressionless throughout. I wanted to like this, but I didn't.

Heart Attack #1 - Shawn Kittelsen (writer) Eric Zawadzki (art) Michael Garland (colours) Pat Brosseau (letters). X-Men fans will find this future where some people are born with special powers very familiar. In this book they're called Variants. It starts off with a Variant graffiti artist named Nona being tazered and dragged away by cops who look like the judges in Judge Dredd. Cleary the bad guys. Nona's friend Charlie witnesses the rights violation and goes for help with a group called the Freebodies. Here we meet Jill, a social media influencer and when she meets Charlie, sparks fly, or people do more accurately. Jill has tactile telekinesis powers and Charlie is a power booster. Along with similarities to Marvel's mutants I also felt like this could have been the beginning of Cloak and Dagger. The art is lovely so if you're looking for something new to try I recommend this.

Scarab #1 - Dennis Hopeless Hallum (writer) Freddie E. Williams II (art) Jeremy Colwell (colours) Thomas Napolitano (letters). If you've been wondering what Jaime Reyes, the Blue Beetle has been up to find out here in this "Year of the Villain: Infected" one shot. It isn't pretty. The Batman Who Laughs gets his claws into the teenager and now he looks like Ambush Bug and can't control the Scarab attached to him. This explains how Jaime shows up in Batman Superman #4.

Deadpool #1 - Kelly Thompson (writer) Chris Bachalo (pencils) Wayne Faucher, Tim Townsend, Al Vey, Jaime Mendoza, John Livesay & Victor Olazaba (inks) David Curiel (colours) VC's Joe Sabino (letters). The stalwart names in the credits made me pick up this latest number one of Deadpool's to read. I was not disappointed. Deadpool is made King of Monsters on Staten Island. That's really dumb and insane but this is Deadpool so totally expected. I think I'll stick around for the fun this time around.

2099 #1 - Nick Spencer (writer) Viktor Bogdanovic (art) Marte Gracia (colours) VC's Joe Caramagna (letters). This intro to the latest Spider-Man mega event is as clear as mud. There's just too much going on to try to figure out what the point of the story is. I'm assuming this takes place in the year 2099 where Doctor Doom has Uatu the Watcher keeping an eye on things for him. So old Doc Doom rules the world yet again. We get a glimpse of five 2099 tie-ins with Conan, Ghost Rider, Punisher, the Fantastic Four and Spider-Man 2099 all making brief appearances. The creative teams on them will determine if I'm going to read any but my interest is low right now. Fans with extra time and money might be more inclined to check them out.

Something is Killing the Children #3 - James Tynion IV (writer) Werther Dell'Edera (art) Miquel Muerto (colours) AndWorld Design (letters). I am waiting for the action when Erica Slaughter confronts the monster that is killing the children. I am also wondering how some of the adults of the town are going to interfere. This horror show has me hooked.

Batman #83 - Tom King (writer) Mikel Janin (art) Jordie Bellaire (colours) Clayton Cowles (letters). I love the use of two Henry Wadsworth Longfellow poems in this issue while the voice of Alfred soothes Bruce's grief. This is where Bruce finds Alfred's dead body and prepares to face Thomas Wayne. This is an issue that I would give to someone who doesn't read comic books as an example of what a really good comic book is like. I think that they would be pleasantly surprised.

Annihilation - Scourge Alpha #1 - Matthew Rosenberg (writer) Juanan Ramirez with Cian Tormey (art) Federico Blee (colours) VC's Cory Petit (letters). The bug is back but this time Annihilus has come from the Negative Zone not to conquer but to ask for help. Death is spreading in the Negative Zone and nothing can stop it. You know it's bad when Annihilus teams up with Blastaar and both bad guys lose. It's a tough time to be a Marvel Maniac when two mega events hit the racks at the same time. This one spins off into four one-shots featuring Nova, the Fantastic Four, Beta Ray Bill and the Silver Surfer ( before Silver Surfer Black I'm assuming). If you're a fan of little used characters, you'll like who the Big Bad is. The same deal applies for whether I read any more of these as with the 2099 books.

Once & Future #4 - Kieron Gillen (writer) Dan Mora (art) Tamra Bonvillain (colours) Ed Dukeshire (letters). We're in the thick of the story now as the bad guys get closer to the Holy Grail. I love me a good Arthurian story.

Loki #5 - Daniel Kibblesmith (writer) Andy MacDonald (art) David Curiel (colours) VC's Clayton Cowles (letters). Half of this issue is a tale from the old west where Loki hunts down some bank robbers with the help of a young Logan you know who. The other half is a present day Loki explaining to someone his raison d'être. It's one of those get to know the star of the book deals.

The Marked #2 - David Hine & Brian Haberlin (writers) Brian Haberlin (art) Geirrod Van Dyke (colours) Francis Takenaga (letters). There is cool magic in this book and I love the art. Not sure who the good guys or the bad guys are but that's okay because I'm sticking around to find out.

Fantastic 4 2099 #1 - Karla Pacheco (writer) Steven Cummings (art) Chris Sotomayor (colours) VC's Travis Lanham (letters). Jeepers, the end of this 2099 one shot was totally unexpected and shocking. It's obvious that H.E.R.B.I.E. is trying to reunite the 4 in 2099 and they are totally different from the familiar family that we know. He gets help from the cyborg bounty hunter from the 2099 Alpha book and she's successful in finding the 4. It's an okay story with some neat futuristic concepts but there won't be an ongoing FF 2009 book later.

The Amazing Mary Jane #2 - Leah Williams (writer) Carlos Gomez (art) Carlos Lopez (colours) VC's Joe Caramagna (letters). I do not like this portrayal of Mary Jane. She's more like an old school Archie Comics character than the modern woman we've seen in other books. I had high hopes for this new series but this is where I call this one a wrap.

Marauders #2 - Gerry Duggan (writer) Matteo Lolli (art) Federico Blee (colours) VC's Cory Petit (letters). I like how they've matured Kitty Pryde in this new book but the art isn't nice enough to keep this on my must read list.

The Immortal Hulk #27 - Al Ewing (writer) Joe Bennett (pencils) Ruy Jose, Belardino Brabo, Marc Deering & Sean Parsons (inks) Paul Mounts (colours) VC's Cory Petit (letters). The Hulk's war on Roxxon starts here. The first battle has the Hulk attacking a data centre and fighting Roxxon's enhanced human security guards. This is powerful stuff and classic Hulk Smash. I love it.

Excalibur #2 - Tini Howard (writer) Marcus To (art) Erick Arciniega (colours) VC's Cory Petit (letters). I'm not keen on the writing but I love the art. There's just too much teleporting for my taste. I'll stick around as long as Marcus is drawing this book.

The Amazing Spider-Man #34 - Nick Spencer (writer) Patrick Gleason (art) Matthew Wilson, Dee Cunniffe & Chris O'Halloran (colours) VC's Joe Caramagna (letters). Doctor Doom was centered in a sniper's sights at the end of last issue and (spoiler alert) is shot at the start of this issue. Boy, does that ever piss old Doomsy off. Meanwhile Spider-Man 2099 finally finds the Amazing Spider-Man but all he can do is tell him that the multiverse is screwed? How anticlimactic. Now Peter has to figure out what will cause that catastrophe. It's pretty obvious to me given the major clue in this issue.

Avengers #26 - Jason Aaron (writer) Dale Keown (pencils) Joe Weems, Cam Smith & Craig Yeung (inks) Andrea Sorrentino (art pages 18-19) Jason Keith with Erick Arciniega & Jay David Ramos (colours) VC's Cory Petit (letters). It's the origin of the Starbrand. I love Dale's art.

Absolute Carnage #5 - Donny Cates (writer) Ryan Stegman (pencils) JP Mayer & Jay Leisten (inks) Frank Martin (colours) VC's Clayton Cowles (letters). Uh, what? This didn't turn out to be one of those stories with clear cut winners and losers. Eddie Brock and his son are still alive so that's a win for him. Knull has been (spoiler alert) awakened so the bad guys win too. The changes to certain characters will interest Venom fans (Eddie kills Cletus and absorbs the Carnage symbiote and his son Dylan kills a symbiote by making it explode) so there's that. I noticed that Scream was in the group of heroes coming to the rescue and that makes me want to read more about her in SCREAM CURSE OF CARNAGE #1 hitting the racks November 27. I should get a No Prize for explaining that Peter carries an extra face mask because on page 6 half of it is ripped off but he's got a full one on page 21. Either that or editorial didn't notice the boo-boo. It was fun catching up with Eddie and Venom but this story didn't make me more inclined to keep up with this character regularly.

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