#this may just be a me thing idk but i just feel like he doesn't actually get that much development in the duology

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

So we know that Wei Wuxian's treatment after his death was horrible. Even if nothing could impact him directly, there was still neverending slander, hatred, misinformation, theft...

But, for a while after he died, the sects did try to impact him directly – namely, frequently trying to resummon his soul. And today I'll explore the possible reasons for this, their likelihoods, and why I'm so, so thankful that Wei Wuxian's soul managed to resist the summons. Because, spoiler alert (or, you know. maybe not)... none of them are good.

(Long meta ahead)

In my opinion, there are four likely motivations for this: confinement, coercion, torment, and potentially destruction.

Out of all of these, confinement is probably the most likely motivation, at least for most sects (Jins and Jiangs excluded, though it was likely what the Jin sect said their motivations were – but I'll get to them later). This one is the most simple – we know spirit-trapping pouches exist, and we know the sects also placed 120 stone beasts on the Burial Mounds to prevent Wei Wuxian's soul from escaping. Therefore, this seems to be the most likely motivation – and fortunately for Wei Wuxian, probably also the best case scenario, though it still certainly isn't a good one.

For the second, coercion – this is where the Jin sect come in (more specifically Jin Guangshan with the help of Jin Guangyao). Due to their wealth and resources, they're likely the sect who played the largest role in the soul-summoning rituals. We know what they're willing to do to try to gain power – keeping Wen Ning under the pretence he was burned to death and trying to control him with the nails, and working with and helping Xue Yang torture people to help him refine his demonic cultivation, in order to have the Yin hufu fixed. Along with working with many other cultivators, alongside Xue Yang – Jin Guangshan really, really wanted that seal.

And so, Jin GuangShan sought after all those who imitated Wei WuXian in cultivating the ghostly path and gathered them under his rule. He spent a great amount of money and resources and these people, ordering them to study and analyze the structure of the Tiger Seal in secrecy so that they could replicate and restore it. - Villainous Friends extra, EXR

(Note that working with these cultivators very likely happened after Wei Wuxian's soul had failed to be summoned, since this happens some time after Wei Wuxian's death, whereas the soul-summoning ceromonies presumably started happening very close to it.)

In the previous paragraph, he's also quoted as having 'lusted after' the Yin hufu, which we already knew but it's nice to have a direct quote as evidence.

Now, would Wei WuXian willingly work with the Jin sect in doing this? No. We know that, and, given Wei Wuxian's actions in his first life (refusing to hand over the Tally, not being afraid to stand up to the sects, etc), I’m pretty sure Jin Guangshan knows that, too:

He beat around the bush a couple of times, using all his skills, yet Wei WuXian didn’t give in no matter what, and it made him run into a bunch of obstacles. - Villainous Friends extra, EXR

So this could actually make things go two ways. One, I'm wrong and that wasn't actually part of the Jin sect's motivations, since they know they wouldn't be able to control him (and in that case, had they managed to summon him, I could imagine them putting him in a spirit-trapping pouch and doing something similar to what Jin Guangyao did to Nie Mingjue's head. Which, also, not good). Two, it was a part of their motivations, and they hoped to find a way around that. After all, there are other guidao users out there now, and Wei Wuxian would now be a gui*. Also, cultivators can obviously harm ghosts – see the very existence of Night Hunts, and I'd include Xue Yang's talisman-caused destruction of A-Qing as well (while he isn't a traditional cultivator, talismans can be used by everyone).

Now, would either of these methods actually work? I'm inclined to think not really (and I expand on the former method in a note below). Would that stop Jin Guangshan/Jin Guangyao/the cultivators they employ from trying? Especially considering Jin Guangshan's lust for power?

I'm inclined to think no, too.

For the third, look no further than Jiang Cheng's reputation of capturing and torturing demonic cultivators after Wei Wuxian's death, due to thinking they could be him. And this does happen – Jin Ling knows and talks about it, and there's not real motivation for him to negatively lie about someone he loves. Also, when they come across each other at Dafan Mountain, we're told this in Jiang Cheng's inner voice:

A moment ago, Jiang Cheng was certain that this person was Wei WuXian, and all of the blood in his body started to boil. Yet, now, Zidian was clearly telling him that he wasn’t. Zidian definitely wouldn’t deceive him or make a mistake, so he quickly calmed himself and thought, this doesn’t mean anything. I should first find an excuse to take him back and use every possible method to get information out of him. It’s impossible for him to not confess anything or give himself away. I’ve done things like this in the past anyways. - MDZS Chapter 10, EXR translation

This mainly shows that he's tortured people before, rather than that he's tortured people because he thinks they're Wei Wuxian, but this reason is confirmed by Jin Ling in Chapter 24. Of course, the reason is also mentioned in this chapter, and there are other moments in the chapter that illustrate my point better**, but they come from second-hand sources which I know are easier to deny. Do take note of Jiang Cheng's expression both times he comes across 'Mo Xuanyu' (after he suspects he's Wei Wuxian) in Book One***, though:

After a moment, the corners of Jiang Cheng’s lips pulled into a twisted smile. His left hand started to unconsciously stroke the ring [Zidian] again. He spoke softly, “… Well, well. So you’re back?” - Chapter 10, EXR Although his face had always been clouded, marked with arrogance and satire, it seemed as if every corner of it had come alive. It was difficult to determine whether it was vengeful wrath, fathomless hatred, or raving ecstasy. - Chapter 23, EXR

This does seem to line up with what people say his attitude to Wei Wuxian is – there doesn't seem to be any happiness at seeing him again at all. The only time a word that could suggest that ('ecstasy') is used, it's accompanied by 'raving', and considering the context and the other possibilities of his expression, it's... probably not due to happiness at being reunited.

So, considering 1) this, 2) his contribution to the Siege specifically intended to kill Wei Wuxian, and 3) that at the time of frequent soul-summoning Jiang Yanli's death would be even closer for him, I feel pretty confident in saying that yes, this is likely a motivation for the Jiang sect in trying to re-summon Wei Wuxian's soul after his death. And, as mentioned earlier, cultivators can harm ghosts (and we know Zidian is able to remove souls posessing a body from that body, and that Jiang Cheng used Zidian on 'Mo Xuanyu' in Chapter 10. If it wasn't able to restrain/harm ghosts, or other methods weren't able to, why would he risk Wei Wuxian's soul escaping?).

And finally, option four: destruction. We're heading into much more speculative territory here, so don't consider this on par with the first three. But consider this:

We know there are some spells, like Xue Yang's talisman used on A-Qing and the body-offering ritual, that can ruin the returning soul’s reincarnation cycle by destroying it. Therefore, soul destruction is possible.

The 'main'/supposed reason for summoning Wei Wuxian's soul back is to stop the "cultivation world, or even all of mortal land" from being "faced with the most insane damnation and revenge, sinking into nothing but chaos and despair" when Wei Wuxian inevitably returns. While, as mentioned above, I severely doubt this is the motivation for certain sects – and to me is likely a rumour which the Jins (again, especially Jin Guangsha) fanned the flames of to justify summoning Wei Wuxian back for their own purposes**** – there are other sects which would take it more seriously.

Although likely disrespectful, people already thought it served Wei Wuxian right to die without his body intact by the time of the second siege – something believed to negatively affect your reincarnation in your next life*****. This is only the logical next step, and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people would believe that, again, it would serve Wei Wuxian right, or would at least lead to less harm of the world in the long run.

For these reasons, I could definitely see this as an option for some sects, especially the sects who consider themselves more 'righteous' (cough cough the Nies under Nie Mingjue cough cough). After all, evil is evil and good is good, and the evil deserve what's coming to them. And what better way to prevent that than from preventing his soul from returning at all? So for the Nie sect – and likely some of the smaller sects involved in the Siege, since among them, additudes probably vary – yes, I do think it could be a motivation.

I’m not as sure about the Lans being willing to go this far, and that’s largely for two reasons. One, Lan Wangji’s presence and his relationship to Lan Xichen, who does (not always, but he does) let this affect how he treats Wei Wuxian. An example of this is that, when Wei Wuxian's return is made public, Lan Xichen does let him hide and shelter at the Cloud Recesses instead of trying to pursue him, likely majorly due to Lan Wangji. I'd argue that the aftermath of the Nightless City also acts as an example of this, although it definitely isn't perfect. But though he, Lan Qiren and the 33 elders do come to find Lan Wangji and do not let him continue to shelter Wei Wuxian (after they see Lan Wangji's feelings), Lan Xichen doesn't use this opportunity to kill/capture Wei Wuxian, despite Lan Wangji being in a worse condition due to having fought 33 elders, Wei Wuxian being catatonic, and Lan Qiren likely supporting this outcome (especially considering he was the one who led the Lan sect in the Siege – chapter 68, Wei Wuxian's POV). And he did let Lan Wangji take Wei Wuxian back to the Burial Mounds after:

After he went out of his way to send you back to Burial Mound and returned in such low spirits to receive his punishment, how long he kneeled before the Wall of Rules! - Chapter 99, EXR

Again, this was right after the Nightless City massacre – there isn't any goodwill towards Wei Wuxian at this point in time.

Of course, the Lan sect did participate in the siege after Lan Xichen knew of Lan Wangji's feelings towards Wei Wuxian, which Lan Xichen was no doubt a part of (although Lan Qiren lead the Lan sect in the siege, Lan XIchen had to have at least known/given his support, if not participated.) And it should be considered that Lan Xichen letting Wei Wuxian shelter at the Cloud Recesses was after Wei Wuxian had been back for a while, and had not caused the downfall of the Cultivation World, like many suspected he would after his death. And of course, as stated previously, his handling of the aftermath of Nightless City wasn't perfect either (though please note that his main motive here was to protect Lan Wangji from being potentially executed, rather than anything about Wei Wuxian himself). So caring about Lan Wangji doesn't mean he won't harm Wei Wuxian. But I do think he could find bringing Wei Wuxian's soul back to completely destroy it a bit excessive. There is, though, the chance that the elders of the Lan Sect would react to this differently, and of course they would have a sway on both Lan Xichen and the Lan sect as well.

The second reason is smaller, but there seems to be more focus in the Lan sect than in others when it comes to letting ghosts rest peacefully/helping them move on. And that could definitely lead to more resistance to the idea of summoning a soul back to destroy it as well, which could especially impact the elders. So I'd assume that the Lan sect would be the most likely sect to summon Wei Wuxian's soul back just for confinement, or just for some way of making sure any resentment is disippated, his spirit moves on, and he can't cause more harm to the world (eg via Inquiry)******. Not that he would or does as a ghost or as a reborn person, but that's unfortunately not relevant to this.

But yes, as a motivation for the Nie Mingjue-led Nie sect? Absolutely.

So, these are the main motives I suspect to be behind the attempted summoning of Wei Wuxian's soul after his death (and if I've missed any, please let me know – I'd love to have a discussion). And, of course, none of them lead to anywhere good. Because of course it wasn’t enough to besiege Wei Wuxian, murder the 50 non-combatants he was responsible for (and throwing them into the blood pit as a mark of disrespect because why not?), and lead to his death via him getting torn apart. It wasn’t enough to steal all his inventions, and use them commonly while still slandering him with no reprieve – or to steal his notes and give them to people like Xue Yang to study (Villainous Friends, again) and to use for their own, extremely extremely harmful, purposes. Of course, the cultivation world has to try to harm Wei Wuxian after death as well ((:

We don't know whether Wei Wuxian rejecting the summoning ceremonies was conscious or unconscious, but if it was the former, these are very likely reasons he refused to return in this way. If it was unconscious – for example, maybe during the frequent soul-summons his soul was in a weakened state due to him dying from a backlash of resentful energy and getting torn apart, and it healed over time but not before the soul-summoning rituals stopped – well, I can only be thankful.

Finally, let me leave you on the thought that – although it may well have happened since we don't spend much time in the immediate aftermath of the Sunshot campaign – there isn't even any textual mention of this happening to Wen Ruohan. Who, while not being a guidao user, was still very dangerous, still an extremely powerful cultivator, and still had a lot of reason to feel resentment. So.

:')

Thank you for reading!

--

*Considering what we see of how Wei Wuxian's guidao functions – redirecting the ghosts'/corpses' resentment into doing something they'd want to do, eg attacking people, and directing it towards a target – I'm not sure using it to force a spirit to do something 1) extremely specific, and 2) explicitly against their will would actually work. Iirc the closest thing we get to this in text is Wei Wuxian using the corpses of Wens to attack other Wens in the Sunshot Campaign, but he's still just directing their resentment to a target of his choice, and fierce corpses do tend to be on the less concious side of things (hence why Wei Wuxian had to awaken Wen Ning's consciousness). Considering how Wen Ning attacks Wei Wuxian and the Burial Mound Wens before his consciousness had fully awoken, I... really don't think those fierce corpses were able to differentiate (or didn't care).

Meanwhile, ghosts seem to be a bit more in control of themselves – see A-Qing, and Wei Wuxian's own descriptions of his ghost self.

That, alongside ghost!Wei Wuxian being able to resist his soul-summoning and the fact that pretty much all of the new guidao users are a lot weaker than he was, does make me think that this this wouldn't work. I do wonder about Xue Yang, since his methods are pretty different as well, but he's more of a modao user than a guidao user (he controls living corpses rather than dead people) and I don't think you can insert physical nails into ghosts?? Though if he was specifically instructed to figure out some way to control ghost!Wei Wuxian (who's probably kept in a spirit-trapping pouch in this scenario), he might be able to do something at least. Though also he was also struggling to piece Xiao Xingchen's ghost soul back together, so he may struggle with those areas?

Well, whatever the potential outcome, I'm so so happy once again that Wei Wuxian's soul managed to resist the soul-summonings...

**Mainly this:

Everyone in the cultivation world knew that the young leader of the Jiang Clan watched out for Wei WuXian in an almost crazed manner. He would rather catch the wrong person than let go of any possibility, and took anyone who seemed like they held the soul of Wei WuXian away to the YunmengJiang Sect, inflicting severe torture on his victim. If he wanted to take someone back, the opposition would surely lose half of their life. - Chapter 10, EXR

But I have heard people say 'you can't prove that it's just more rumours' before, and I wanted my evidence to be as watertight as possible.

(And, off-topic... isn't it really sad how Jiang Cheng, in the present day, is described as young? Because, for a clan leader, he is. And another thing he is, is close in age to Wei Wuxian – who was killed 13 whole years prior :') )

***And do note that the only other time they run into each other before Wei Wuxian's identity is revealed to the world apart from this is their brief interaction at Jinlintai, where he can't just act however he wants. The next time they run into each other after it, Jiang Cheng is literally taking part in another siege against him, and still extremely hostile ("surrounded by hostile energy, face insidious, staring straight at him" – from EXR chapter 60). Then he loses his spiritual powers and can't do anything. By the time he regains his powers, Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji and the Wen remnants' corpses have saved everyone during the Second Siege, and though public opinion hasn't properly shifted quite yet, it will soon after Sisi and Bicao tell the story of Jin Guangyao, and voila, a new scapegoat (do note that he doesn't completely bar Wei Wuxian from entering Lotus Pier after the Second Siege, though). Plus, throughout it all, Lan Wangji is still constantly present, which makes it hard for Jiang Cheng to really do anything. And then he's finally faced with the Golden Core reveal, which does alter his motivations towards Wei Wuxian (obviously the resentment is still there – read chapter 102 – but it's also mixed with other complex emotions, and he seems to start being able to move away from that a little in Chapter 103). I still definitely wouldn't describe Jiang Cheng's attitude towards him as positive, but it isn't at the point it was at the start of the novel (eg Chapter 10).

But even if his attitude does change, or would for whatever other reason apart from the reveal, that still doesn't change an initial motivation so isn't relevant to this meta. We know his intentions at the start.

****It's also possible they may have originated it, but I think WWX's reputation was bad enough for it to form naturally. Though you can trace a major part of that back to them, too.

*****That belief isn't outright stated in MDZS, but the fact people are specifically talking about the status of WWX's body in the aftermath of his death suggests that this belief does have some grounding in the MDZS universe, at least? And we know MXTX has included it in TGCF (though that doesn't mean it's definitely in MDZS), so she has used it in her works. If this isn't the case in the MDZS universe I am sorry (although that could also mean there's less importance placed on not disturbing the reincarnation cycle in the world of MDZS...? Which would work towards my original argument) – I don't want to spread misinformation that something is definitely true, I just think there's evidence to suggest it is true, which isn't the same thing.

******Again, I think this would depend on who ends up having more influence over who in the Lan sect. After all, normal resentful spirits only do what they do because of their resentment in death, whereas Wei Wuxian is 'dangerous' because of who everyone thinks he was in life – so him being reborn naturally could also 'cause a lot of harm to the world' during the time period this version of him would live in, unlike the resentful ghosts they appease. This could definitely lead to many advocating for confinement, I think.

[danieyells]

Fun little factoid about Sho

In the game files there's some audio that's just like. "Generic Story Voices". The same ones that I got Kaito and Towa's incantations from. Generic audios were used in campus chats before they got fully voiced I believe, but now they're not used anywhere as far as I know.

One of Sho's is labeled 'Hyde'

And he uses 'Aniki' for him???

My understanding is generally that 'aniki' is kind of respectful and the fact that he uses a respectful term for the brother that he hates struck me as odd when I first found the file(then again he uses 'senpai' for pretty much every student older than him so far, so maybe he's just respectful in general?? Or maybe it's more of a sarcastic thing for Hyde?)

And then we got the 'I'm counting on you Shohei' bit and I was like. O h. Either he's actually fond of/respects Hyde a lot and has no problem being obedient towards him or he just. Speaks to him respectfully out of intimidation maybe? Or habit since he speaks restfully to other people? Idk. Why does he refer to him so respectfully. . . . . . . .i wanna know. . . . .tell us what their secret dealings are zzg. . . . .based on the way he talks to him in the campus chat he doesn't respect him like that but they were also in like a main hall of the building? Maybe in private he speaks and acts totally different?

[t-u-i-t-c]

"That's the kinda thing... That I hate."

[grishaverse-chaos]

hmmm something about dominik haunting the narrative in king of scars. everything nikolai does is at least a little bit for him. he learns about the life of average ravkan people by meeting dominik's family. he starts gaining influence in politics just so he can improve dominik's life. and then he promises dominik that he won't let ravka break him.

that promise fucking haunts him. it follows him wherever he goes. it's the driving force behind everything he does, every step he takes to heal the centuries-old wounds in ravka. it's what drives him to do better, be better.

dominik is always there, in the back of his mind: this country gets you in the end. always pushing him to do more, because he couldn't save dominik and so he has to save ravka (for dominik) (because he promised) (because he loved him)

[adhd-merlin]

No one:

Me: can we talk about gaius and uther for a minute. like I do think their dynamic is meant to echo the dynamic of merlin and uther in the original Arthurian texts. like. guys who have made each other sooo much worse. one of them being complicit in the horrors tm but they are too codependent to break up so they just wallow in their guilt while the other spirals into tyranny. (did I just use ‘codependent’ and ‘break up’ in ref to uther and gaius. yes)

I don't know much about og uther and merlin but that's a fascinating thought. do you think it was intentional? probably not. but I love when you can perceive some flavour of the original arthurian texts in bbc merlin's characters/dynamics

[mildcicada]

[keeps-ache]

there is nothing that will grow your ego faster than a little dog following you around instead listening of anyone else. my puppy now

[cerealbishh]

"You're pretty new at this whole relationship thing, huh?"

"... Yeah."

[elibean]

also we are at the halfway point and like, nothing substantial has happened

[mad-hunts]

tw: cannibalism, (slightly) graphic depictions of violence and HEAVY elements of horror will be ahead, so i'm going to put this under a 'read-more' if you'd rather skip out on this one.

so they looked around for a bit, and that's when they found it. this blood trail going down the floor of the hallway, which was already kind of scary, though it was nothing compared to the sound of someone's ringtone suddenly resounding from one of the rooms in the back (think one of those love songs with sort of creepy vibes to them like ' unchained melody. ') so, once your muse gathered enough courage, they decided to proceed down it even though something inside of them was screaming that something seemed wrong. and it seemed like they were right because once they reached the back, they found a dead body just... pressed up against the wall with blood spattered behind them. and there were other spots of the wall spattered with blood as well.

i feel like, for a character that's supposed to be pretty horror-oriented, that this account has been kind of lacking in content related to that lately, SO imagine this scenario, y'all. your muse is friends with or just cares about barton in some way. and thus, whenever they find out that he's attracted the ire of someone dangerous + that he's been missing for WEEKS, they assume the worst and try to find out his location. which leads them to this already creepy, dilapidated, and abandoned mortuary. and they honestly didn't know what they were expecting once they entered it, but it certainly wasn't this deafening silence, and there seeming to be... no one around?

so, you try to circle around to find out what the hell is going on, but then you see the thing that barton is hunched over is a body and a third one on the autopsy table in the room. and your muse can't help but blanche + feel like they've just stumbled into the lions den, because barton is not only SO beat up, but he's eating the person below him. and it's absolutely horrific because whenever they gasp at the sight is when barton finally looks up at them.

it was ALL over this corpses' face, though, as it appeared like they died from some sort of brutal blunt force trauma. but there's also another blood trail that is smeared across the floor up and under one of the doors in the back, which they are REALLY questioning whether they want to open now. they choose to do so with their eyes closed after remembering that barton would do the same for them (and by that, i mean he would want to save them JSJSJ), and all they can see when they open them is the back of barton hunched over something, or someone as you discover while getting closer to him. and it's like he is either ignoring you or hasn't heard you enter the room because he's still focused on whatever he was doing.

and there is just NOTHING behind those eyes even though he's got a copious amount of blood dripping down from his lips and dripping down his chin + neck. like JSJSJ i don't know about you guys, but i would be sooo scared because not only is this NOT normal behavior for him at all, it's god damn terrifying to see someone cannibalize you someone else. and so if he were real, along with me being in this situation, i probably wouldn't talk to him for a while because i wouldn't even know where to begin AHHH

[waterdeepthroat]

i know i kinda have a reputation to uphold as an astarionposter but like. he's not even my fav character in bg3...

[p2ii]

.

[piningpercussionist]

i know you dont know all these people but press is acting strange

https://www.tumblr.com/thepressanon/738561269597143040/smile-smile-for-the-camera-for-the-people-for

you can check it out if you want

... huh. It's an interesting, if concerning, first impression, I suppose... Hope he's alright?

Nice poem though.

...

Is the incorrect their intentional?

[t-u-i-t-c]

chapter xlii

[cakemoney]

i don't want to die on any hills but i sometimes feel like I'm the only person who read the last scene of romeo and juliet

paris stands between romeo and juliet's tomb. he is not part of the audience; he has no idea juliet and romeo had secretly fallen in love and gotten married; he is not privy to the plot of the story. all he knows is that tensions between capulets and montagues are at an all-time high, and now a banished criminal is breaking into the capulet mausoleum. he does what anyone with the information that he has would think is honorable. romeo approaches, rambles at him unhinged and doesn't explain anything, and calls him a boy; a youth, the same way everyone else talks about romeo throughout the play. in fact, he does it again after he's killed him and come closer to see who it is:

this isn't meant to be a defense of paris, really; i think paris's character very much varies based on how his lines are performed, and depending on the production he could be anywhere between outright sleazy to obliviously presumptuous. it's certainly true that many of his lines are possessive of juliet, and that he is incredibly pushy about pursuing marriage, but no, he is not way older and definitely an adult. and i think that detail matters, because i think the real thesis of the play is unveiled when we reach the end and check the tally and realize that all five people who died—mercutio, tybalt, paris, romeo, and at last juliet—were all explicitly or implicitly referred to as young at some point.*

i see the point in the original post! the enforcing of patriarchy is absolutely a part of romeo and juliet, but it's woven into the greater premise; the social order and power that maintains the rivalry between the two houses is the same social order and power that disregards the opinions and agency of all the women in the play, starting from the very beginning when both ladies capulet and montague fail to deescalate the brawl. montague doesn't show up again until the end, but we see a lot of capulet, arguably responsible for setting most of the wheels in motion. in act 1 scene 2, he's in a good mood; he says outright that it's time to put the rivalry to rest, and tells paris that if he wants to marry juliet, "my will to her consent is but a part", that it matters whether or not juliet likes him. it's clear in his initial resistance to the marriage that he cares for her. but then tragedy strikes, he's reeling and upset, and though he was hesitant, he decides that the best course of action is for juliet to marry paris; and, having decided that, he flies off the handle when juliet disagrees. he had promised juliet to someone, so if juliet doesn't follow through, it will reflect poorly on him, and that's the last thing that he needs right now. his behavior is inconsistent; sometimes he's jovial and chill, but sometimes he's overtaken with fury and lashes out at people he has power over. his wife, just as before, is powerless and falls in line quickly; the nurse attempts to defend juliet, but once they are alone, she counsels juliet to accept her father's decision as the best outcome she can hope for. they live in a patriarchal society, and in this specific society, the patriarchy manifests in the form of a rivalry based on nothing but pride.

the patriarchs themselves are fully grown adults. they know that the rivalry is frivolous and perhaps even in bad faith. capulet is able to threaten violence (over some random servants crossing paths on a public street?) during the day and then dismiss romeo montague crashing a party in his house as not a big deal that very night (tybalt tells capulet about romeo's presence, and capulet tells tybalt to take no note of it). montague's first lines on first appearance are "let me at him!!!" but then once the crowd has dispersed, he has to ask benvolio what happened and who even started it; he was starting a fight for no reason, and he knows that. but the young men in the play have grown up in the shadow of this nebulous hatred; they take it seriously, because they don't know any better, because they don't have the life experience and context to understand that they shouldn't. they take their cues from the leaders of their society—men who, instead of controlling their anger, blow up at random things and then call it honor. in act 1 scene 1, the first time tybalt picks a fight, he's saying dramatic shit like "turn thee, benvolio, look upon thy death"; more grandstanding than combat. he brandishes his sword because it's what his uncle capulet does, so it's the honorable thing to do, so he tries to do it again at the party that night and is so confused when his uncle berates him and calls him a "saucy boy". he's belittled and dismissed, and he doesn't understand why, so in act 3 scene 1, desperate to prove himself, he's now talking completely differently. he ignores benvolio who he had claimed to hate, does not rise to mercutio's taunts and even says "peace be with you"; he states his challenge to romeo plainly, uses formal language and frames it as defending the honor of his house, and does not even draw his sword until mercutio did it first.

romeo is repeatedly described as sensitive and well-mannered by other characters; he tries to keep his cool, keep the peace, he resists tybalt's challenge. but then tragedy strikes; his love is no match for the expectations of hatred and violence that surround them. o sweet juliet, thy beauty hath made me effeminate, he says, and kills tybalt, because that is what masculine honor demands. he's devastated, grieving, angry for how unfairly tybalt had targeted him, horrified at what he's done, terrified of what this means for his future and the life he had wanted with juliet, and he doesn't know how to process any of this except as hatred, for others and for himself; he spends the rest of the story desperate to die, threatening to kill himself when his execution is converted to banishment, because violence, as always, is the only honorable path open to him. his love for juliet was the only thing that stopped him, and then again his love isn't enough, because juliet is dead. in the last scene of the play, in a graveyard, paris calls romeo a villain and challenges him, exactly the way tybalt did, and romeo sees him for what he is: just another boy playing at being a man, in a neverending cycle. do not urge me to fury, he says. i'm a man, i've killed before, and i cannot control what i will do.

that's what the play is about. if you raise your children in a hateful environment, they will destroy themselves. the future of the noble houses, even the prince's, is ruined, because this society is unsustainable, because the men (the boys) that it creates don't know how to function as adults; they don't know how to mediate and resolve conflicts and compromise, they don't know how to express emotion and assert their personhood except through violence, and even when there is no longer anyone around to inflict violence upon, they turn it upon themselves. when the carnage is discovered in the morning, both capulet and montague vow to personally make amends, because both of them know intimately that the tragic, wild, seemingly unpredictable actions of these children were their fault.

*mercutio is the only one for whom i can't recall any lines regarding age. his behavior and friendship with romeo seem to indicate that they are peers, but mercutio and benvolio also have the air of older guy friends (boyfriends?) who are dragging their depressed younger cousin with them on outings because romeo's mom asked them to cheer him up. relatedly, i think there is a viable interpretation (although i'm not married to it) that when mercutio is killed and curses both houses, it's because he's flabbergasted that his goading on of tybalt and romeo's fight led to real consequences. like "wtf, did you just kill me for real, i thought we were playing around"

It’s always so funny to me when people push the “Romeo was grooming Juliet” theory, especially when Paris is right there.

Romeo is around Juliet’s age and we can tell by his lines that Paris is way older and definitely an adult. Like. Look at R + J’s banter, it’s two total equals having fun with each other. They kiss and then Juliet asks for another kiss!! They match each other’s weird vibe!! Romeo says shit like “I wish I was your pet bird” and Juliet responds that she would literally crush it to death because she’d love it too much. Weirdos!!! They match each other’s freak!!!

Compare that with how Juliet interacts with Paris. He’s predatory and possessive over her, and it’s pretty obvious she’s uncomfortable. He pushes her dad to let him marry her even though he knows she’s too young!! Instead of playful banter we get Juliet being quiet and subdued, the complete opposite of her fiery, weird self she is with Romeo!!

“Oh, Juliet should’ve just married Romeo” No! If she did she would have ended up just like her mother, forced to marry an adult man and have a baby way too young, rendering her unable to connect with her child, and then the cycle would continue!

The theme of men preying on young girls and the patriarchy leading to destruction is there!! But Romeo is not the problem!!! He’s actually the opposite of the problem !!!!

[keeps-ache]

cat bit up my arm Gwah