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stxriisk · 2 years ago

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My theory on the orange side: HE'S NOT LOGAN'S OPPOSITE?

WOW PLOT TWIST I KNOW

so basically I was watching through sanders sides the other day (as you do) and I was making a couple of theories on the orange side, yk average TSS enjoyer activities, WHEN SUDDENLY I WAS STRUCK WITH SOMETHING GLORIOUS

THE SVS REDUX

This is the first hints we see about the orange side (see from the cover screen showing a 7th side and the famous 01134 on the street fighter game sequence) BUT HAVE WE EVER STOPPED TO CONSIDER WHAT ELSE IS IN THIS EPISODE?

At 40:06 of the SVS redux, there is a MUSIC CHANGE (to a track that in my personal opinion sound WAY too funky to be "just for instrumental") and furthermore, Roman says at 40:12, "how long must we act selfishly until Thomas is ready to start putting more... good into the world?". Janus then responds, "A good question, for another time."

Now one might take that as Janus avoiding the question, but I think its strange that it is ONLY IN THIS PART OF THE VIDEO THAT THIS MUSIC PLAYS, when they are talking about being TOO selfish, to the embodiment of LIES. So what does it mean? I believe it symbolises Thomas lying to himself about the existence of the orange side.

SO THE QUESTION YOU'VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR THE ANSWER TO - WHO THE FRICKLE FRACK IS THE ORANGE SIDE? In my opinion, I believe it is Narcisissm. Or at least, that's what Thomas VIEWS it to be.

LET ME EXPLAIN-

The first time orange appears in the series is in the episode about SELFISHNESS, and how it shouldn't be mistaken for self care. This is extremely similar to how society treats self-love as a narcisisstic, hence why Thomas would believe this is what the orange side represents.

Now let's look at my favourite thing: COLOURS. WHAT DO THEY MEAN? • Red - This colour mainly represents Passion and Courage (like Roman, the passion is for creativity and the courage is the whole "ill always be your hero" thing) • Yellow - Many people respond to this colour in different ways, some find it cheery, others find it grating (Much like many people have different views on lying and Deceit) • Green - it is sometimes associated with sickness, and too much of it can evoke isolation (much like how intrusive thoughts make people feel sick and that they are alone with these thoughts) • Blue - light shades of blue often represent confidence, peace, honesty and reliability (literally aligning with Patton's existence in a whole) • Indigo - This colour can be seen as knowledgeable, representing integrity and intuition (Do I even have to say anymore, it literally is knowledge, aka Logan) • Purple - Shades of this colour have been used in the care of mental of nervous disorders (Maybe this is why Virgil started wearing purple, to symbolise thomas's better management of his anxiety?)

And now, what about orange? One of the negative connotations of this colour is self-indulgence, which is characterized by doing or tending to do exactly what one wants (much like BEING SELFISH). This would explain the appearance of the orange side in the SVS redux.

"But what about the colour wheel? WHAT IS ORANGE THE OPPOSITE OF?" Before I continue, I'm leaving virgil out of this because thats a whole other can of worms I DONT WANT TO DIVE INTO TODAY, BUT LEMME EXPLAIN

Red and Green are opposites, much like Remus and Roman. They represent both sides of Thomas' creativity - dark and light - so it makes sense.

Heres where things get tricky. LEAVING VIRGIL OUT OF THIS (bcus he's more of a... neutral side I guess? I feel like he doesn't really have a clear opposite anyways) The colour closest to this is actually yellow. This kinda makes sense, as Logan is based on truths while Janus is based on lies.

SO THAT LEAVES PATTON, THE EMBODIMENT OF MORALITY AND SELFLESSNESS. AND THE ORANGE SIDE, WHO I'VE JUST THEORISED TO BE A FIGURE REPRESENTING NARCISISSM AND SELFISHNESS, much like the entire plot of the svs redux.

You might be thinking, "BUT WORKING THROUGH INTRUSIVE THOUGHTS !!! LOGAN WAS ORANGE !!! HOW DOES THAT WORK????" That's because Logan had a selfish goal behind Thomas's schedule, which was being listened to for once. Many people who have narcisisstic tendancies tend to crave attention, much like logan. This part where the "orange side took over" wasn't the orange side himself, it was a representation of Logan's need to be listened to.

Am I saying Thomas Sanders is a narcisisst? No, not in the slightest. Earlier I said that this is how Thomas percieves the orange side, because they're HIS SIDES. He views his self love and desire to be listened to as narcisissm because that's what he's been brought up to believe. It can even be reflected through Patton's behaviour in the SVS redux.

Again, this is JUST A THEORY. I'm not saying any of this is fact. Also special note for these guys:

Colour theory experts (I can't art so my colour wheel analogy is probably so off

People who have NPD/actually know more about it (I want to clarify that this is how I think Thomas PERCIEVES the orange side, not what it is. I'm not diagnosing)

Virgil lovers (HE DOESNT MAKE SENSE IM SO SORRY)

PEOPLE WHO KNOW THE SERIES BETTER THAN ME (Yes I know that the line seperating "opposite sides" is a little blurry)

Thank you and goodnight (you should totally repost this)

#thomas sanders #sanders sides #virgil sanders #roman sanders #logan sanders #patton sanders #janus sanders #remus sanders #sanders sides theory #logan is really hot #logan sanders hmu #prinxiety #intrulogical

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creativia10 · 1 year ago

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Wip 4 (Roman and Logan Switch)

Wordount: 825

Notes: There was expressed interest in seeing this, so here you go. This comes from this post here. I don't remember why I didn't continue this one. I would probably have to look for my notes if I ever wanted to get back to it. Despite these beings wips, I do go over and edit some of what I have now before posting, usually using an editing site.

I actually have more wips now. I can post a list of some of them if this is something people would be interested in seeing again.

Roman and Logan were arguing about how Thomas should spend his time…again.

This was expected of them at this point. However, it was still frustrating for everyone to deal with though. It did make sense that two sides for such different parts of Thomas would knock heads a lot. Not to mention, their egos did not make it any easier. Although Logan would still not admit that he had one.

Janus groaned. His forehead hit the table after returning to the mind palace. Another discussion was put on hold due to those two bickering again.

Patton sighed as he sat with him.

“I know,” Patton said.

“I didn’t realize how much worse their arguing is to deal with while being right there with them.” Janus had been coming to more meetings since SVS Redux.

“Have their arguments improved at all? Like we can’t possibly get anything done if they refuse to agree on anything!” Janus exclaimed.

An uncertain look crossed Patton’s face.

“Yes?”

Janus frowned. Patton wanted to believe that, but it did not seem like enough of an improvement to be noteworthy.

Patton sighed again.

The arguing could be heard in the other room. The two loud sides had returned to the mind palace with Thomas no longer paying attention to them. Janus pursed his lips and stood up dramatically.

“Janus” Patton called.

Janus paused in front of the doorway.

“I know it’s not good that they’re always like this, but…don’t do anything, ok?”

Janus simply stood there for a moment before continuing out. He didn’t respond to what Patton said.

The two sides were still going at it, yelling on top of each other, and not even seeming like they were listening.

Janus groaned and snapped his fingers.

They paused, finally seeming to take notice of a change in scenery.

They were no longer in the ‘living room’ area of the mind palace. The room they were in had much dimmer lighting and was very hot. On the center back wall of the room appeared to be a bed that was set in the shape of snake pit. Janus’ domain. They were all standing in the center of the room. Janus was in front of them, looking cross, with his arms cross.

Roman huffed.

“Why did you bring us to this reptilian place!?” Roman pulled on his shirt a bit and fanned himself.

“It’s unbearably hot in here. I don’t know how you could manage.”

Janus narrowed his eyes at him.

“You can change into cooler clothes if you need to. But I am not changing the climate of my room to better fit your comforts.”

Roman scoffed and held himself higher.

“I never suggested such a thing. I am fine.”

Obviously, a lie.

“As am I.” Logan said, frowning slightly. The beads of sweat running down his face said otherwise, but Janus did not call them out on it. That was one amusing thing about having the most prideful sides in his domain though. Them not admitting to their discomfort.

Janus rolled his eyes.

“Whatever. I just needed to talk to you. You both are totally not arguing too much and making everything difficult for the rest of us.”

Roman furrowed his brows some and thought for a moment.

Logan scoffed, and adjusted his glasses.

“As vastly differing sides of Thomas, it makes sense that we would argue. Besides, all of the sides have argued greatly at some point.”

“Yes, that may be. But you two are worse, and actually interfere with your goals for Thomas to do something. More than anyone else,” Janus said.

“Oh, we are surely not the worst. You- “ Roman started.

“No.” Janus interrupted him.

“I have not argued with anyone here as much as you two do. Being in a constant state of duress is harmful to Thomas’ self-care, so it’s my duty to do something about it.”

Logan and Roman both crossed their arms at that.

“I fail to see how you can do anything about it.”

“Agreed. We represent polar opposite aspects of Thomas, and disagreements are unavoidable. There is not much you can do to change that,” Logan said.

“Your big egos get in the way of cooperating with each other as well.”

“FASLEHOOD!”

“Shut up!” Both Logan and Roman said at the same time

Janus raised an eyebrow at that and snorted, receiving some dirty looks.

They both opened their mouths to continue to argue with him, but Janus just sighed. Time to get to it. Janus pointed at both of them and made a switching motion. The two jolted back as though hit with something invisible.

“What was that?”

“Yes, what did you do you-“

Both paused, something feeling off.

Logan reached to adjust his glasses, but found no glasses were there. He blinked, somewhat seeing fine without them. Also, his clothes felt different. The weight on him were in different areas than he was used to.

#wip #sanders sides fanfiction #sanders sides #ts janus #ts logan #ts roman #ts patton

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stormrider24 · 2 years ago

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Orange Side

Alright guys, listen. Hot take. I don't know how many of you are going to like this, but it needs to be said.

The Seventh Side/Orange Side Will Not Be Rage.

Now listen for just a minute while I explain. You'll remember during Moving On, Thomas and Patton both establish that Patton is at the core of a lot of Thomas' feelings. This includes not only joy and excitement, but grief and sadness. Rage isn't a part of him, you don't have an angry part of you when you list the parts of you that make you you. And before anyone says Virgil, Thomas' anxiety being a side is a result of him having an anxiety disorder. It's not just an emotion like it is for most people, it affects his day to day. On top of that, Thomas isn't an angry person... at all. He's giddy and cheerful all the time, and if he's not it's sad or anxious. It would take a LOT to piss him off to the point it could be called Rage. He might get frustrated at something, but Rage and Fury have far more fire to them than the sparks of "Why won't this damn coffee machine work?" It wouldn't make any goddamned sense if the seventh side he keeps teasing (that we've predicted) ends up being an emotion, especially because it's really hard to make a full episode dealing with just anger that Thomas doesn't even really have.

Now for the Hot Take I mentioned before. All I've said is it won't be Rage, but most people won't accept that without another alternative to fall back on (though in my opinion we should just let Thomas do his damn thing with it, we can trust him to do that much) so I present to you, these tweets;

Now THAT is episode-worthy. THAT is a part of Thomas worth looking into. An ADHD side would get everyone involved one way or another, it'd clear up things within Thomas and the other sides that they don't really get about themselves. As someone with ADHD myself, it would make a LOT of sense to have this be an episode and would also touch on a lot of things most people REALLY need to be told about ADHD.

I can already hear the arguments about what happened in the most recent Asides video with Logan but hear me out. One of the parts of ADHD that I personally despise is RSD, Rejection Sensitivity Disorder. Not all ADHD'ers have it, but a good amount do. Basically we have a worse fear of rejection and failure than most people do. We need everyone to like us so much it's exhausting. If you're not paying attention to us, we're going to immediately think you hate us or don't like us, and if it's for too long we think we've been forgotten completely. Now, since ADHD is a MASSIVE impact on your daily life and thinking, it would make sense that Logan took a good toll from this. The RSD would have hit him like a TRUCK while Remus was ignoring him and making fun of him, and he'd be pissed off. It would also give a good reason for Logan to act the way he did in SVS Redux, appearing in a "less invasive" form so the Pure of Heart and Dumb of Ass wouldn't hate on him the way he thinks they are. Also, this leaves a good reason for the fans to grasp at for Logan angst content, and you can rarely argue with angst.

As for the color, I present to you the ADHD flag. Doesn't get a whole lot more orange than that folks.

I could go on, clearly, but just think about how much sense this makes you guys. And if you disagree, don't come crawling back to me if I end up being right. But anyways, there's my two cents, take it easy y'all

#sanders sides #orange side #thomas sanders #ts sanders sides #logan sanders #ts logan #ts virgil #virgil sanders #sanders sides virgil #sanders sides logan #sanders sides theory #orange side theory

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loganofthenorth · 3 years ago

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Do you have any ships you don't like?

Ever just look into your inbox and realize you have a bunch of asks you forgot about? Ha could be me

That was going to say couldn't be me but auto correct changed it and it's not wrong so I'm leaving it

Anywho, ships I don't like? Yes of course, I have many.

Obviously there's the forbidden ship r*mr*m that shouldn't even be a thing so I'm not going to dignify it with a paragraph

Then there's Logicality which I've written about before. I used to like it, but after rewatching Sanders Sides twice I realized they aren't very healthy for each other in a romantic sense. Patton seems to make Logan out to be the bad guy when he's just trying to help, and Logan tends to snap when his patience runs thin. Also the Skip incident in SVS Redux, where Patton asked for Logan's input before silencing him because Logan's opinion went against his.

Then there's Intruality, I love it in AUs under certain circumstances, but it's a big fat No in cannon. It doesn't work because if you look at Sanders Sides from Remus's perspective, Patton is a manipulative abuser. If you look at Sanders Sides from Patton's perspective, Remus is a bad guy that lashes out for no reason. Like, sure, one could say that they might work through that and think they misunderstood each other. However, neither of them are technically wrong. Besides, considering that Remus exists because his version of creativity was morally frowned upon, and was therefore repressed so that Roman could be a morally appropriate version of creativity, a romantic relationship would be awkward at absolute best. Honestly if they do somehow work on their issues with each other, the best outcome would be that Remus and Patton's relationship would become a sort of father that abandoned his son and now they're reconnecting kind of thing.

Then there's Moxiety, this one is just because I see Patton and Virgil in a father/son relationship. Also, the fact that Virgil is Thomas's fears and fear is an emotion, which Patton has dominion over, it's possible that Patton is actually Virgil's father in the same way that Roman and Remus are brothers. I also believe that the Orange Side is anger, and if that's the case, he would be Patton's son as well.

I can go into that theory in another post though.

Next is Royality, and yes I know, you're probably sensing a pattern.

Now, don't get me wrong. While Patton is my least favourite character, that doesn't mean I hate him. I actually love Patton, especially in episodes like the puppet episode where he shows incredible emotional maturity that is really helpful to Thomas.

I also love how complicated of a character he is, and it's sad that the fandom simplifies him to just a happy, nice, cute, silly character, because he's more than that. He has severe depression, and a lot of issues that come from that. He also grew up taking catholic views to heart, following all the morals Thomas was taught as well as he can.

On top of that, he manages emotions, which is such an incredibly complicated thing to be in charge of. He manages instincts, like when Thomas feels good for doing something good, or when Thomas is hungry, or thirsty, or whatever else. He manages a large percentage of Thomas's likes, dislikes, sense of humour, inner child, and more. Patton has a large mountain of responsibilities, which adds to the complexity of his character.

He also appears to be very manipulative, whether or not he intends to be using manipulation tactics, I don't know. I think his character's too complicated to know that for sure. However, he's done a lot of love bombing, guilt tripping, and other manipulative actions that make him out to be this innocent good guy and anyone that disagrees with him to look like a bad guy.

Due to how complex of a character Patton is, and due to how he has made himself a father figure to most of the sides, it's hard to enjoy him in most ships in cannon. The only ship that works well for him is Moceit, in my opinion, because Janus is working with him to help Patton work through these issues. Patton is also good for Janus because Janus needs to learn how to communicate in a way that doesn't seem like he's attacking or sabotaging Thomas/the other sides.

Now, with that aside, back to Royality.

Royality is a very best friend or father/son relationship. More best friend in AUs and Father/Son in both cannon and AUs. I say more father son in cannon, because Roman has shown a desire to gain Patton's approval. He tries to follow Patton's rules, even though every time he finally manages to meet Patton's impossible standards, suddenly they change and turn around completely. (I have ranted about this several times and will likely do it again in future posts.)

Now, with those out of the way, yes there is more.

Next is Logince

I like Logince in AUs, and it's not that I don't think Logan and Roman's dynamic is amazing, it's not that I think they wouldn't work romantically, I just see them more as a brotherly relationship. Roman treats Logan like an older brother that he fights a lot with, but at the end of the day he just wants to be good enough for Logan. The way they talk about Patton to each other is a lot like Roman being a teenage brother complaining about their Dad and how lame/strict/embarrassing/etc he is to his adult brother.

Then there's Anxceit. This one I don't like because I see Janus as a mother figure to Virgil and Remus. I guess it could work in AUs, but to get their dynamic right, it would probably be a friends to enemies to lovers situation. Like Catradora. Also Janus and Virgil still have a lot of bad blood to work through, so if I'm wrong about the mother/son bond and they were just friends before, then Anxceit would probably have a lot of work to do and an awkward patching up before they can be in a healthy relationship.

Now there's Demus and Roceit. Which, maybe they shouldn't be on this list, because I do like these ships, but I do want to talk about them.

Demus I tend to feel meh about, it's basically dark side Royality. They work as a mother/son dynamic or best friends, not really romantic partners. However, I love them when it's Intruloceit, because I love Loceit and Intrulogical.

Roceit, this is friends to enemies to lovers galore. Roceit is not a healthy ship currently, but it's definitely an entertaining one. Due to Roman's insecurities and Janus using Roman for his greater plan, however, I don't know if a romantic relationship would work in cannon. It depends on where the story goes from where we are right now. However this is the perfect enemies to lovers ship for AUs if you get bored of Prinxiety's popularity.

Now what's interesting about Demus and Roceit is that if you believe in the theory that Roman and Remus were once King Creativity, which I do, and if you've seen the King AU, which I have, that adds all kinds of layers of complicated to Demus and Roceit. Of course, I may go over that in a future post.

Sorry this was so long, I hope you enjoyed my infodump!

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marsupials-of-mars · 3 years ago

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Drew this a while back and just got around to coloring, here's my prediction/hc for the orange side! We basically know he's going to be anger of some sort already, it just makes sense.

He's a dark side, but he'll be revealed after SVS redux so it may be a different thing where they try to accept him off the bat, but maybe he's prickly about it idk.

The most important aspect of my design is that he is PUNK. I was thinking of anger and how we've seen Thomas present it as a generally nonconfrontational character, and how it could be approached as a facet that has both good and bad to it. Both irl and C!Thomas most often present anger at social issues as righteous anger, for things like queer rights and women's right to their bodies and other politics, as well as the team of writers. As an aesthetic, this is exactly what punk is. Fighting for a cause and using getting angry and not putting up with any shit to get things done, to fight for yourself and others, which is similar to how the other dark sides are defended.

For the orange and anger of course it works that he'd have a fire motif, I like the idea of him "smoking" without a cigarette just like breathing fire when he's upset, catching on fire, letting of steam literally to calm down etc, Hades from the Hercules movie stuff.

For his animal (and I've seen this before, I don't remember who from but I love it) he has a SCORPION. I like him having another arachnid like Virgil, and the dark sides tend to have animal counterparts that are seen as icky and creepy crawly, and dangerous in some way. This is why I don't see him as a lion or tiger or any big powerful mammal like that. I also like that the scorpion stings, like a snake strikes or a spider bites, and has venom just like them. It's also pointy and scary and brandishes a terrifying weapon to warn everyone to back off, not only when threatened like a spider or snake might, but all day everyday.

His pins are things like "eat the rich" and an anarchy symbol (Janus is literally an anarchist but orange is more into the aesthetic) and pride pins. That last bit is important too, where he'll join Remus as a more unreserved, unapologetic himself, where Virgil and Janus keep things closer to the chest.

My favorite but are his glasses, which like his logo are a mix of a flame and the stinger of a scorpion, and it adds something a little less stereotypically punk and more Elton John and flamboyant. Also he NEEDS some sort of glasses, making the glasses to no glasses ratio a more even 3:4 rather than a lonely 2:5. Patton and Logan need another spectacled spectacle in their corner

#sanders sides #thomas sanders #orange side #the dark sides #logan sanders #orange side theory

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limitededitionsanderssidesblog · 3 years ago

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Orange is Offence

I've seen several different theories floating around both prior to and post the new aside video, Working THROUGH Intrusive Thoughts. So I decided to throw my two cents in.

So my main cause for concern about Orange's identity has always been that he is never explicitly referenced by ANY of the other sides. They never once speak of him, but he has made himself known before, such as in the episode SVS Redux, when he appears briefly amid one of the videogame cutaways as an orange colored 4110.

This is the first instance we've had of a dark side choosing to attempt communication individually without aid or disguise from the other sides.

For instance, our first known hint of Remus actually comes from the episode The Sanders Sides 12 Days of Christmas, where Roman says the line:

"May visions of sugarplums dance in your head and hopefully not visions of your naked aunt Patty... Yeah, I don't know where that came from."

And later in Remus's introduction song, this image appears behind him:

For Janus, his existence was first hinted when he silences Roman from speaking in Accepting Anxiety Part 2/2. Later when he finally did reveal himself, whenever he would appear it would always be as one of the four main sides.

Then why is Orange different? Why was he able to speak to Thomas (in an albeit round about way through a videogame screen) when he has yet to show himself fully to him?

Well first lets look at what the color orange represents.

A few positive meanings of orange, of many, include balance, freedom, and expression. The most common negative associations of the color include crassness, rudeness, and frivolity.

Next, the newest big revelation in TSS since Deceit's reveal.

Logan's outburst:

Now, many people have been theorizing that Orange is a part of Logan, and that they could be either a dichotomy/set of twins such as with Roman and Remus. But I don't think that's the case.

(I'd like to give credit to @candiecards for this next portion.)

In fact, I don't think Orange has any significant relation to Logan apart from the other sides. Rather, I think Orange is using Logan as an easy target/susceptible vessel. Just like how Janus would only appear by mimicking the other sides and disguising himself as him, I think Orange manipulates the other sides through a sort of mind control. Which is why he would be able to greet Thomas through the 43110 screen, by manipulating and altering Roman's videogame example to suit his needs.

First off, Logan has always been rather short-tempered, this is nothing new. In fact, Thomas called him (and Roman) out on it in the episode Fitting In (Hogwarts Houses!). Also, remember the time in Learning New Things About Ourselves, when Logan grew so annoyed with Roman's constant berating of his character, screamed, and threw a notecard at his eye? If Orange was always a part of him, and can be presumed to appear in fits of rage, why didn't he appear then?

Because he isn't inherently connected to Logan.

But Logan is becoming an easy target for Orange.

Over the past few episodes, and even throughout the series, Logan has been feeling left out and ignored. He was benched in SVS and was skipped and tossed aside in SVS Redux. Besides Roman, I'd say Logan is the most self-engrossed and prideful, believing that he is more important to Thomas than the other sides. He even stated in Learning New Things About Ourselves that he is the one who "maintains order."

However, when we are introduced to the state of Thomas's life in the newest episode, it is clear that Thomas is completely disorganized and has lost any sense of control over minimal things such as keeping clothes off his staircase.

It's then made clear by the way Logan speaks with Thomas that he has been trying for an undetermined amount of time to convince Thomas to reorganize himself, but that Thomas has ignored him each time.

Throughout the episode we see Logan eagerly push Thomas to work on his set schedule, but then conceding several times to Thomas's more pressing needs to deal with Remus and his intrusive thoughts over Nico's lack of a reply to a text he sent the previous day. Logan does appear patient with both Thomas and Remus, trying to logic his way through each set back, telling Thomas it's okay to take a break because of his intrusive thoughts, and trying to reason with Remus to hold himself back so he can work with Thomas more efficiently. Of course, it doesn't work, and he snaps at Remus to stop ignoring him.

Interestingly enough, at the same time Logan snaps, Thomas, who had previously appeared only anxious over Nico, then appears angry that he's being ghosted.

They become offended over the same thing. Being ignored.

Before I continue, allow me to provide a clear definition of the word offence.

Offence (noun): annoyance or resentment brought about by a perceived insult to or disregard for oneself or one's standards or principles.

As a reminder, the color orange can represent both freedom, expression, and crudeness.

When one believes that their freedom and expression of themselves and their beliefs have been insulted they take offence and often lash out in anger and become crude.

Offence can come from many places, it can come from different experiences, different expressions and emotions; but the reaction that is birthed from that offence is almost always outbursts of anger. Just think of a self-righteous Karen demanding to see a manager.

Throughout the story, Logan has been teased and ridiculed for his love and belief in strict and ridged methods and lifestyles. For him, planning and organizing and due dates are all fun things he enjoys, but to the other sides, its all just a bore and they make fun of him for it.

Logan comes off as (one of) the "angriest" side because he is constantly taking offence from others and defending himself. He is also more emotionally stifled than the other sides and does not know how to properly regulate his emotions, making him more prone to outbursts of anger. This would make it easy for Orange to take over/control him, by using his anger to blind him.

I mentioned in an old theory of mine, What is Deceit Really After?, that I believe Janus is plotting to create a power shift a from the "light" sides to the "dark" sides. And while in that theory I said I believe Janus would try to manipulate Virgil to gain power, although I still think that may be possible, I now also believe that Janus wants Orange to use Logan's offence and anger against him to control and manipulate him instead. After all, Janus was the one responsible for keeping the dark sides suppressed, only allowed to appear if Thomas wished to see them. But now they are appearing without Thomas first giving his consent to meet them.

He released Remus, promising that he would make sure that Thomas would no longer "deceive [himself] about the ugliness within [him]." Orange's sudden appearance could be the next step in Janus's plan to gain control, although I'm not sure what he could have offered Orange in exchange.

In the final moments of the episode, Janus is perched on a tree where he eats a green apple and says "Yes, everything is just fine."

As pointed out by @ethecookednoodle green apples represent matters of the mind.

The green apple at the end could very well hint at the upcoming events of the story regarding Logan and orange as the side representing Thomas's mind, and the side that performs mind-control over those who lose themselves to offence.

After all, whether he believes it or not, Logan has the most say in what Thomas does and thinks, comparable only to Patton, who Janus is in the process of seducing.

#thank you for reading #i made this on a whim #so im not sure it makes sense #ts spoilers #sanders sides #thomas sanders #orange side theory #ts theory #ts theories #orange side #ts orange side #logan sanders #ts logan #janus sanders #virgil sanders #remus sanders #patton sanders #roman sanders

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loaffofbred · 3 years ago

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SPOILERS FOR WTIT :

Foreshadowing of Logan's Outburst or Snap and Indications of Future Problems

After rewatching some of the Sanders Sides past episodes, it seems very clear that Logan's outburst is fairly unsurprising. But, there may be some other foreshadowing thats taking place other than his outburst, and maybe his future dilemma's maybe indicated as well.

One example i saw is his question in the musical number of the puppet episode, where Patton explains his repression of emotion, and Logan seemingly asking if it worked in some way. And almost seemingly shocked by Patton's answer.

It almost seems like he was trying to find the answer to his own problem. He's repeated before that he has NO feelings or emotions, and that he has no care of sentiments. He's in denial of his emotions and Patton's situation seem to fascinate him because he seems to have the same problem. Almost like the more he ignores his emotions, the more he believes they disappear altogether, like what Patton said. The answer seemed to shocked him either because of Patton learning and applying the lesson he learned, or because he had a similar problem and shocked by an unexpected answer. This feels like a foreshadow to Logan's problem, and this is not the only example of that. All instances of Logan denying his emotions are just further evidence that thats his problem. His acceptance of his emotions. This is me not doing too much research here, so bear with me if theres a way to debunk it.

Of course this isnt a surprise to some, but this is a foreshadow to his outburst. The further you fill this jar of emotions, the closer it is to bursting into a field of emotions and outbursts. I think maybe the future episode might tackle that problem. Denial is a form of deception, you cant have deception WITHOUT denial in some capacity. You can tell that Janus in some way knows Logan's dilemma, he is deceit after all, he knows that Logan has a tendency to deny his own emotions. Even the other sides seem to know this as well. Logan always clarifies he has no emotions and this further feeds deceit.

Janus and Remus' push comes to shove

This can also explain why Janus and Remus push Logan to a different level than all the other sides. An example of this is the newest asides video(WTIT) and both SvS and SvS redux. Why are there methods of pushing Logan away different from the other sides? Well, lets first see how the other sides do this. First, the other sides never do this intentionally or in a malicious way. They explain Logan why his point of view doesnt particularly matter, and that their argument is more feasible. They dont FORCE Logan aside, they just dont put the effort to listen and comprehend his input. Example of this is the end card of WTIT, Patton choosing to ignore Logan's input on SvS Redux, and Thomas, Patton, and Roman almost ignoring and nonchalantly putting aside his wants in the Moving On episode. They dont force Logan away, they just dont give value to his input enough for him to feel worthy.

Remus and Janus' way is through FORCE. Theyre upfront and malicious with their tactics. Remus blatantly targeting Logan specifically on the introductory episode of him. Janus disguising himself, two times, as Logan to remove him from the equation. They both force Logan down, to try and bring themselves up. I dont particularly know why theyre pushing Logan to his limits. Either an entry for the Orange side?

But this is whats weird. Janus is responsible to who or which side can be seen. Hes responsible on who is hidden away from Thomas, and who isnt. Thats why in Remus' song mentions this;

Recently a snake offered me a morsel from the tree of knowledge

He said "you're wanting to be more honest

And be direct dealing with your issues

No longer will you deceive yourself about the ugliness within you"

(a certain thing i suddenly realize is that the 'tree of knowledge' is referenced in WTIT. The last end shot where it pans to Logan and the roots of the tree to Janus. Just a small thing i realized :) )

So why does the orange side need 'influence'? Yes, Thomas has a say on what he wants to see and what he doesnt, but what about Remus? In a way its far more fitting for him to just barge in rather than have permission to show up. But if we were to assume Orange as rage or a form of it, why does he NEED influence (assuming he does) to truly be seen? A question that im hoping will get answered in future episodes.

Janus' power and deniability

Janus has more power than we think. He can shut the sides up about a certain side in order for Thomas to be unaware. So maybe, in the end card, Janus is hinting for the Orange Side to finally being seen because of his help. His power stems from something but what?

Have you noticed something in common with all of the dark sides introductory episodes? They all speak about DENIAL. Denial of Thomas' capacity to deceit and the denial of imagination having an 'evil form' of it. His denial is what keeps the dark sides at bay, and what keeps him from knowing about the other sides. I think thats the main reason why Janus has the power to show Thomas the other sides, because denial is a form of deceit, and Janus has power over that.

And who else has a BIG problem with deniability? Logan. Logan denies that his emotions even exist in the first place. One example of denial being a big part is this line that really stuck with me,

No longer will you deceive yourself about the ugliness within you

Janus is speaking to Remus yes, but this also resonates with Logan and Thomas. 'Deceiving yourself' is lying to yourself, denying the existence of bad within you. Remus KNOWS that Logan is lying to himself, because it seems like Remus had the same experience with how Janus told this to him specifically. He knows Logan's problems and the whole "Now youre speakin' my language" makes even more sense. He saw Logans truth. His ugliness within him.

Another line also stuck with me is this;

Why deny yourself knowledge

Say knowledge of yourself?

You don't need to feel ashamed with your dear old Duke

You need not feign decency

This also seems so targeted to Logan. He feigns that he has no emotions therefore has no flawed and hurtful emotions that can target Thomas. He feigns decency. Also! 'Why deny yourself knowledge, say knowledge of yourself?' seems to resonate with Logan as well. Im not saying these lyrics are TARGETED SPECIFICALLY towards Logan, but resonate instead.

Logan's deniability of emotions

Think about it, denial is the reason why dark sides are hidden. And Logan denies his emotions. Connect the dots and its understandable why some people believe Logan to be either hiding something about the Orange side, or him being the Orange side in general.

Few mentions

Another targeted insult (while not surprising coming from Remus) also acknowledges Logan's problem,

He knows his problems, and this is where Logan denies this entirely

Which seems like a lie to me, but nonetheless

Remus pushes the take that he has an effect on Logan

Logan also denying this entirely

Even though, that is the exact OPPOSITE of what happened to him with Remus on the latest sanders asides.

TLDR; Logans denial of his emotions is a big problem that may be addressed in future episodes. Denial is a big part of the dark sides anonymity and Thomas' deniability is the very reason for hidden dark sides.

Both Remus and Janus push Logan for either an entry way for Orange, but still skeptical because of Janus having the power to make dark sides be seen based on his control of deniability, so why put the effort?

Logan's connection to denial maybe a more reason why he seems to be the only side that explicitly shows anger to the point of physical pain towards others or other outbursts. Deniability and the dark sides having a connection seems to further push the theory of Logan showing his true colors or self. Of course that theory has many flaws in of itself, i think Logan's denial has a big part as to why he showed orange eyes

Remus affects Logan in quite different ways compared to Virgil and Patton

anyways, this has been long enough, i hope this was understandable, and as always

THIS IS ALL THEORIES,

do not take them as truth or fact, but rather speculation

anyway, peacee

#sanders sides #sanders sides theory #orange side #ts logan #ts remus #ts janus #ts orange side #thomas sanders #ts spoilers

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still-busy-being-mortal · 3 years ago

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Why the Orange Side Could Represent Repression (especially if Logan is the Orange side)

I know I said I wouldn’t post anymore TSS stuff here but I lied

While I agree with the popular theory that the Orange side is probably Wrath/Righteousness and actually think it’s the likely course of the next season, I do think Orange representing repression has some merit, especially if Logan is Orange.

The biggest question I asked myself when formulating this theory was “What Side would be directly tied to logic?” Because Wrath doesn’t make much sense in that context. Yes, rage does lead to illogical action, and if the Orange side is a completely new Side, it will make a ton of sense, but anxiety and blind selflessness can lead to irrationality as well, so simply rejecting logic isn’t enough to directly bind Wrath to Logan. No, the only facets that can be directly correlated to logic that could be possibilities are Irrationality, Justice, Repression, and Cruelty. Irrationality is too small a facet to make into an entire Side for a season (plus Remus and Virgil have got that covered), and I don’t think Cruelty (aka logic taken too far) is a Side of Thomas. Justice has some merit, but I don’t think that that connotation is “bad” enough to have such a big villainous build-up. Ergo, Repression is the Hyde to Logan’s Jekyll.

So why Repression, you ask? When thinking up this post (assuming Orange is part of Logan) I asked myself “How can logic be taken too far?” Pure logic can cause us to be unempathetic (or cruel) in the name of efficiency, or it can cause us to tamp down the emotional, mushy sides of ourselves, AKA Repression. And the lightbulb clicked on. Because Logan has been doing this from the start. Think of everything “Mr. Robot” has said: ”I don’t have feelings,” “I fear nothing,” “Feelings, the bane of my existence,” etc. However, the most telling hint at Repression comes during LNTAO.

During the song, in Patton’s verse, we have this interaction:

PATTON: I had this problem where I’d often hide my less than awesome feelings, so when I would feel like sobbing I’d just smile and crack jokes. I thought that that was coping: only joking, never showing sadness, hoping it would go away.

LOGAN: Did that work?

PATTON: Nope!

And Logan looks surprised, even though he knows that’s bad. He knows repression is bad for Thomas, but when it comes to himself, he seems to have expected it to be okay. In that same episode, we see him struggle with frustration about the Sides’ behavior and Thomas‘s path in life, and he lashes out at Roman.

In SvS Redux, the orange 07734 appears after Logan’s been pulled away, and importantly, he returns passively angry (repressing his frustration).

In WTIT, he yells at Remus for ignoring him (which definitely could be Wrath), but it’s more than just anger. It’s clearly a pent-up concern he’s felt for a while, in most episodes, that’s he’s unleashing now, or the by-product of intense repressed emotions.

So Orange could be the failing of the floodgates, the manifestation of too much repression. Logan is (mostly) controlled to a T, maybe too much so. His Orange alter-ego could represent when too much controlled thinking harmfully contains natural feelings, leaving them pressurized and dangerous. We’ll have to see where the budding relationship with Nico takes them all.

#if it turns out to be wrath just change the word “repression” to “righteous anger” and my point basically still stands #sanders sides #tss #logan sanders #orange side #sorry again @all my followers for the sanders sides stuff

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emmarzhere · 3 years ago

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3am AU time: Sanders Sides Swap!!

Once again I can’t sleep due to my brain insisting it’s much more important to write down these ideas for a Light and Dark side swap AU than sleep, so 3AM TUMBLR RAMBLE IT IS BABYYYY!!!

So I wanted to try using traits already existing in each character to make their inverses, rather than just swapping traits or completely changing the character’s core values, and these are my initial late night ideas:

(Note: I saved this as a draft and revisited it in the morning / afternoon to make sure it all actually made sense and to add to it with a fresh mind)

(Extra note: I accidentally lost all my additions and the entirety of Patton’s and Virgil’s descriptions by refreshing the page, so it’ll now be written out again in a less formatted way. DAMN YOU TUMBLRRRR!!!!!!)

Roman:

My initial reaction was to make Roman “Pride”, and extend on his egocentric nature (like what is done with many Dark!Roman interpretations), however five minutes of laying in bed thinking about it later I found a trait I felt fit him better: Delusion.

This Roman could still be very much “Netflix kids and family”, living and trying to make Thomas live in a fantasy land where everything is always fine and dandy. This insistence of only seeing things through his figurative or not so figurative rose tinted glasses makes this Roman very naive and hard to get through to, and while on the surface appears very appealing to Thomas (when they first meet Thomas doesn’t understand why Roman counts as a dark side) can be very dangerous if Thomas leans too much into his ways of escaping reality, aka making Thomas a delusional person. The best part of this choice of trait for Roman is that I can still tie in his ego; delusions can be fuel people’s egos, and also to protect them from harsh realities, hence why Delusional works as a role for Roman.

While normally I see Dark Side Roman designed to be an evil prince or king, I decided to go for a more glamorous look which I think fitted my version more: Roman would wear a pristine black and red suit consisting of a red waistcoat, tie and trousers, a black button up shirt and black or red heeled boots. I also wanted his design to link to the white peacock (a rare type caused by a genetic mutation), so I topped off the outfit with either a vintage white shawl or a Cruella style coat (leaning towards Cruella because we know Roman and Disney!) with white peacock feathers attached (still trying to decide if I want Roman to have decorated the feathers with red and black accents or not), and a pair of literal rose tinted glasses to hide his white peacock eyes - pale blue with a glassy look to them which always gives the impression that he is far away, even when he’s not.

Finally his sword is replaced with a grandiose black walking stick with silver details, along with the handle being a silver peacock head (note: possibly detachable from the cane to reveal a silver knife?). I chose this as weapons like these in fiction are often used to appear innocent, only to reveal a hidden depth of skill and character; a description which I think applies well to Delusional Roman.

Extra note: Delusional Roman gets snappy, angry, or even threatening when people try to break him out of or correct him on his delusional ways, though he will often try to slip deeper into his fantasies than actually deal with emotional confrontations.

Extra extra note: Roman is incredibly jealous of his brother as he can’t understand why he’s been accepted despite Roman being the one who creates such wonderfully perfect worlds for Thomas to escape off into! He’s also jealous of how his brother doesn’t care what others think of his work and doesn’t seek validation from the others, not that Roman would ever admit that he does either of those things.

Patton:

So the 3 main aspects of Patton I felt would work best for a Dark Side are his destructive selflessness, his overly strong morale compass and how he encompasses many of Thomas’ more negative feelings.

I couldn’t decide whether to officially label him as “Denial” or “Repression”, but either way he holds a similar role: he represses his / Thomas’ negative feelings, as well as tries to push Thomas to do the morally right thing (as he still represents Morality, just not as his main trait) which almost always is the selfless option. It’s almost impossible to convince this Patton that his viewpoint is not necessarily the correct choice (he’s in denial that he as Morality can ever be in the wrong), and he becomes hostile when his views are continuously challenged.

The light sides see Patton as the main holder and cause of Thomas’ negative feelings (eg. makes Thomas act selfless and do things for others until he’s burnt out and depressed), and when Thomas is feeling these negative feelings Patton experiences them but more strongly to the point where the others have to force him out of bed (usually Logan) and take care of him until he and Thomas get out of the depressive slump. However once he’s out he will deny that he was the problem and begin pushing Thomas down the self-destructive path again.

While this Patton will deny his depression and many negative feelings, he is still not as upbeat as Happy-Pappy-Pal-Canon-Patton, matching more with how the side acts in more serious moments such as at the end of SvS redux. He will smile and comfort others, but laughter and puns are rarely seen.

Another thing about this dark side Patton is that he is very manipulative (a trait shifted from Janus to Patton), even if he doesn’t believe himself to be. He uses his role as “morale compass” to invalidate other’s opinions if they clash with his, and often emotionally hurts the sides he gets close to by caring for them and performing selfless acts for them to show his love (eg. makes breakfast for the other Darks sides every morning, goes out of his way to learn more about their interests so that they can have someone to talk to them about) followed by him simplifying complex morale dilemmas in a way that makes it appear that his option is the only correct one, making the others feel bad about their differing viewpoints (a bit like how Roman felt invalidated and morally wrong throughout SvSR as his views didn’t line up with Patton’s).

This Patton wears a worn out pale blue shirt with a fraying black jumper over the top, leaving only the collar of the shirt visible. He has frog features too; with blots of green skin scattered all over his body, slightly webbed hands and he croaks! The splodges grow larger the more emotion Patton represses. He also really doesnt like his frog features as they don’t align with the perfect image of himself that Patton has in his head, so he tries to cover them up as much as possible with his black jumper, pale blue gloves (leather ones as he tried woollen ones and his frog skin made them go sticky) and baggy trousers, although there isn’t much he can do to hide the blots on his face or his brown frog eyes....

(He’s also constantly worn out as frog-pops has no clue what self-care even means)

Extra note: Patton goes through a sort of alternate character development to canon Patton, where as he begins to be accepted by some of the Light Sides and Thomas they discuss how he doesn’t just represent Thomas’ negative feelings, but all of his feelings; a lot of them are just also accidentally repressed alongside the “bad” feelings. As time goes on Patton becomes more cheerful and goofy, even dropping the occasional dad joke, although never quite to the levels of canon Patton.

Extra extra note: The happier this Patton is, the less faded the blues on his clothes become (much like Virgil’s eyeshadow), until at moments of peak happiness his gloves and shirt are canon Patton blue (eg. when Thomas is with Nico, or when Janus and Thomas first accepted him). Cute blue embroidered designs also form on his black jumper at peak happiness, such as butterflies, simple cats, pawprints and frogs.

Logan:

So Logan is the only side I have decided to leave with the same official trait title: Logic, although he also has the orange trait Anger within him. He will also be taking the place of Virgil as the Dark Side who is prematurely accepted.

However Logan here is still different from canon Logan: he represses and denies his emotions even more than canon due to the other dark sides attitudes towards him (Delusional Roman in particular does not appreciate the truth bombs and logical reasoning the calculator watch drops), leading to more angry outbursts / orange showing through. This makes Logan a horribly unstable side, with him appearing completely apathetic to any sort of feeling for an undetermined period of time until he next reaches his limit and has an explosion of rage - he holds both Logic and Anger/Orange in him here, but the anger shows through a lot more due to his circumstances.

His clothes are always shredded and falling apart due to him tearing them when he’s angry + the rage can come out like an explosion that wrecks everything in his surrounding area, including the clothes on him. He sticks to plain black t shirts and trousers to start with as he claims he doesn’t see the point in putting effort into an outfit as he has no desire to please others.

However when Thomas starts making videos Logan can’t help but show up from time to time. He is unsure why as he could not care less what Thomas or the idiotic “Light Sides” think of him, though he figures while he’s there he might as well educate the buffoons so they can reach more informed, educated conclusions to their constant dilemmas.

At first the Lights don’t take his presence well, and more times than one he’d leave towards the end of an episode to explode in the privacy of his room. But surprisingly they eventually start listening to him, considering his inputs, and Logan leaves filming shoots satisfied, even popping into the Light Side’s area occasionally outside of filming days to talk to them.

However Logan notices a pattern as time goes on: the more he’s around the Light Sides, the less he goes Orange. He tests it by spending a week only hanging with the Lights and finds that his anger barely built up at all. Logan quickly reaches the conclusion that his orange trait isn’t actually uncontrollable, it’s how the others treated him that made it so hard to act civil. That is what leads to Logan hating the Dark Sides (much like canon Virgil does) and finally joining the lights.

Soon after being accepted Logan has an outfit change, where he goes from his burnt, tattered rags to his canon outfit, as he finally feels stable and appreciated enough to trust himself in not ruining a nice new Logic outfit. From then on his journey is about accepting that he has feelings and learning that they’re valid.

Extra note: Logan’s worst fear is the idea of going Orange in front of Thomas or the Light Sides - he finally has people who listen to him and if they see his orange side it might scare them off or they’ll lose any respect for him they had. Worst of all they could get hurt…

Extra extra note: Neither Thomas or any of the Light Sides apart from Janus are aware that Logan holds the Orange trait, believing that he only ever was Logic, just more apathetic to start with (and they actually all buy his reasoning of his old outfit being trashed due to him not caring enough about appearances to fix it, to Janus’s dismay but not disbelief - a bunch of himbos, the lot of them!).

Virgil:

Virgil still represents the “Fight or Flight” response in this AU, just without the excess Anxiety. His official title would be “Instinct”, and he would be more confident than canon Virgil. The decrease in anxiety would also make him better at making rational decisions, though he would still freak out and make not-so-great choices in stressful situations.

Rather than a spider, I decided to link this Virgil more strongly with a cat, with heightened senses, lightning reflexes and eyes that reflect light much like a cats. These additions also match with his change of aesthetic from patchwork emo to fantasy vigilante mixed with bright purple punk, plus the addition of purple eyeshadow applied actually correctly. I made this choice as both canon and this Virgil see themselves as a protector of Thomas, yet Virgil is still slightly more morally grey than the other 2 Light Sides (sort of like canon Logan) hence a darker design. Plus is it really Virgil at all if he doesn’t spend his free time listening to MCR?

Virgil also takes the role of canon Roman when it comes to Patton being accepted: he initially falls strongly for Patton’s caring qualities, with the Dark side helping sooth his anxious moments and suggesting that Thomas make other non-selfish options that don’t make Virgil feel as anxious as some of Janus’ options. So for Patton’s first few conflicts Virgil sticks up for him, claiming he’s not all bad. Then he witnesses how Patton’s selfless choices affect Thomas and realises he’s been manipulated; there was no reason to go all the way with Patton’s choice and hurt Thomas, yet Patton had convinced him that it was either his way or the wrong way, no compromises available.

So by the time Patton reveals his name Virgil really dislikes him and makes a snarky remark in which Patton replies with a jab at how he didn’t realise being Thomas’ protector meant that you could be as evil as you wanted with none of the consequences. Virgil’s equivalent line to Roman’s hero one could be something like “Don’t you trust me?” or “I thought I was your best friend?” - then again Roman’s hero line does work with this version of Virgil.

Janus:

This was one of the easiest traits to decide: with a lot of his more manipulative and deceitful traits being distributed between Patton and Roman, Janus is officially titled “Self-Preservation”, and while he doesn’t claim the father role like Patton does, he is still very much seen as a parental figure and guiding light for Thomas and the lights. He tries to be warm and welcoming to the Light sides (part of his role is to take care of Thomas, hence taking care of the parts that make Thomas), and they naturally gather around him as he gives off a safe aura.

However he is not quite as kind to the Darks - he still has the role of managing what truths Thomas can handle, so he controls which sides stay hidden from him. The darks being revealed tends to be down to him slipping up or the side finding a way around his defences more than by him deciding Thomas is ready to meet them, and each time it happens he beats himself up over it and tries to work harder to not let it happen again. The problem he doesn’t realise is that the slip ups tend to happen in the first place due to him overworking himself to make the others / Thomas happy - he doesn’t quite perform the self-care he preaches about.

I’m still not quite sure where I want to go with Janus’ outfit: the initial thought was to put him in a more Patton inspired attire, however this is still Janus, and he is still a theatrical boi. I ended up settling for a mainly cottage-core aesthetic with a flowy long sleeve yellow shirt made out of a light fabric, brown trousers and an overly large sunhat. He also drapes himself in bright patterned shawls and wraps (still predominantly yellow in colour) as while he doesn’t look as snake-like as he canonically does he still has certain snake traits, such as a weakness to the cold and a yellow tint to his left eye.

However snake features do begin to form later on into the AU as Thomas’ views on Lights and Darks alter over time: he begins to realise that despite how it appears Janus is not always in the right, such as how if it hadn’t been for mistakes Thomas would never have met the Darks and learnt to grow as a person - in fact if Self-Preservation got the say in everything he would likely do little growing whatsoever. He and in turn the other Lights begin to find Janus too stifling until SvSR happens where under the stress Janus becomes a true snake boi. The scales and proper snake eye don’t fade afterwards due to Thomas’ subconscious change in perspective, and while it is a big new insecurity at first over time Janus learns to accept these new changes to himself and the Mindscape, and begins adding a touch of darker mystical aesthetic to his look (slightly fantasy fortune teller based) to match his new look better - although cottage-core remains his go to!!

Extra note: In this AU Janus is definitely the side that would most likely be seen going around the Mindscape in a dress (Roman would also wear dresses on occasion but mainly only within his daydreams in the Imagination); he is all about taking care of yourself, and that includes wearing what makes you happy! Though I’m still kind of tempted to put him in a dress full time...

Extra extra note: while Janus is very much the “adult figure” in the Light Mindscape, he still has his goofy moments like in canon - in general he is more relaxed and jokey with the others...though he’s still a sarcastic shet.

(I struggled finding images that matched at all with the ideas in my head, so take these as very vague links to the actual design)

Remus:

Oh boy, Remus is a fun one...

So now that Roman is the twin known by a different title (like how canon Remus is referred to as “Intrusive Thoughts”), Remus now has claim to the Creativity role!! However Remus isn’t going to do a 180 personality wise - he’s still going to be a chaotic gremlin, just with a light side twist.

His design is purposely all over the place: his aesthetic is mainly pirate based with a long sleeve pirate shirt, loose black trousers and heeled black and silver pirate boots, alongside a dark green pirate jacket and slightly brighter bandana. However he has other seemingly random elements thrown in there, such as a white and green hero cape (fuck what Edna says) coming off the back of the coat, and random colourful potions in the green belt under his coat alongside a knight’s sword. This mismatched look is due to the type of imagination Remus provides: while he still represents and creates intrusive thoughts, he also creates adventure stories and life goals/dreams for Thomas, hence takes a form that has mixed elements from Thomas’ self-inserts and protagonists for said stories. While he personally loves his messy design (do you know how much fun can be had with magic potions, swords, tentacles, and a day in the Imagination? Remus sure does), it does cause some arguments between him and Logan over how illogical him and his ideas are (like canon Roman and Logan).

Roman makes this Remus....uncomfortable. Not necessarily because of his ideas (those are just dull and vomit-worthy in his opinion), but because of how he can’t separate dreams and reality - while Remus loves coming up with Imaginative stories for Thomas and setting slightly outlandish goals for the future, he has a level of awareness that Roman lacks in how he knows Thomas won’t ACTUALLY end up being a morally grey pirate travelling the seas to claim back the magical pendant of octopus powers (unless...). He’s also uneasy with how easily Thomas can fall for Roman’s delusions of grandeur and romance, in fact it opens up quite a major insecurity on how despite being the “good” twin his brother seems to succeed more as the creative role, eg. how Thomas will come up with a dream future career path, husband and even car in a matter of seconds yet Remus has to slave and hone in on decent ideas for weeks to reach his own standard.

This leads to another thing about Remus: while he doesn’t care what others think of his ideas (the trait I mentioned earlier that Roman was jealous of) he hold a high standard to himself and gets extremely happy when he perfects an idea. Besides he still wants his ideas to actually be used by Thomas as them being dismissed for not being good enough does hurt (a bit like how Remus got frustrated in the recent episode with how his “good” intrusive creations were being torn apart by Logan’s methods).

Extra note: The fact that Thomas doesn’t like or appreciate some of his darker ideas / intrusive thoughts doesn’t bother Remus too much as he tends to put less effort into them as he knows they won’t be liked - he just can’t help that they pop into his head and he has to get them out - repression is bad after all! However maybe there can be some episode drama about Remus wanting to be less stifled and have Thomas at least consider some of his more mature themes that he thinks would be good to expand upon.

Extra extra note: Just assuring the fact that Remus not caring what the others think about his work does not correlate with him not caring about the others. He loves his fellow Light Sides and Thomas - he’s just confident in his own craft and while appreciates advice and improvements from the others (he and Logan have a field day on creating biologically accurate gore together) he also is aware that HE is Creativity, and he understands his craft better than the others.

Extra extra EXTRA note: Wasn’t really sure how to put it in there but Remus still represents Thomas’ lust. Do with that what you want.

Thomas:

So all these changes to the sides....of course it has it’s effects on character!Thomas! However I’m getting REALLY tired now so this will be done in bullet points:

Not as Disney-centric as canon/real Thomas.

Has less issues with Anxiety, and more issues dealing with Depression

His morals start off a bit more flexible than canon due to always having we-live-in-a-society Janus as his guide

Still has intrusive thoughts, but not as debilitating with the lower levels of anxiety and the much better relationship with Remus.

Still overworks himself trying to help others (nice one Patton!)

Might have a different career due to Roman being more out the frame - maybe goes into writing instead with Remus’ more diverse form of creativity.

Does explore more diverse creative ideas and darker themes, but still out of habit sometimes puts down possibly good ideas as on surface level they appear too morally wrong.

However could possibly be in a non-creative career, and his major longing for a new career path could be what allows Roman through for the first time.

Less dad jokes but still incredibly goofy with both Remus and Janus being more present.

I think I’m going to wrap up there for now! I may make some art for this at some point, but I also want other’s opinions and ideas for this AU.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading!!

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willgrahymn · 4 years ago

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Strangely Estranged

this is my gift to @romansandersprotectionsquad for the @sanderssidesgiftxchange!! I really hope you like it :]

Description: Remus just wants to make his art, but Roman is still distressed by the events of SvS Redux/POF and it's affecting both of their abilities to create. When Remus goes to confront him about it, he gets a little more than he bargained for. Content warnings: Some Remus being Remus-y type lines, blood mentions (again, Remus), a good amount of swearing, and throwing some shade at Janus. Word count: 2747 I’ll rb with the ao3 link :]

- ’Honestly,’ Remus thought, ‘this painting could use more blood.’

He stared at the incomplete project. It was at least the 7th time he started on something today, but no matter what he always came to a pause.

Roman, that motherfucker, he probably had a creative block. Remus didn’t care much about only being half of Creativity, hell, it was fun coming up with the most gory stories he could imagine, but it seemed like whenever Roman hit a block he just had to drag him down with him.

He leaned back against his wall, tossing his paintbrush and catching it again. He stuck the brush in his mouth. Blue paint didn’t taste as good as green, but maybe he was just biased.

Remus glared at the painting. If it had eyes, he was sure they would be staring back, mocking him. Maybe he’d scrap the thing and use it as a target next time he played with his throwing stars.

He ground his foot into the stained carpet. Whether it was paint or blood didn’t matter. Come to think of it, he’d been at a pause for some time now. Roman hadn’t left his room nearly as much either. The only people he’d seen Roman hang out with recently were Virgil, Logan, and (inescapably) Thomas. Then there was Patton and Janus who hardly spent time together before. Now they never left each other's sides. Remus would be a liar if he said it wasn’t somewhat upsetting.

Remus loved drama. He loved watching people fight and be seconds from either murdering each other or making out right then and there. It was exciting to see people so close to their limit. Roman’s drama wasn’t fun though, it was just fucking sad.

He was pretty sure it would stay that way unless he took matters into his own hands. He grabbed his morningstar. He didn’t think he’d actually use it, but if he had to literally knock some sense into his dear brother, then so be it.

Walking down the hall of the mind palace the lighting got brighter. Silently, he wondered how the hell Virgil had managed to live with the other three for so long. With Roman’s obnoxiously loud personality and old villain accusations, he doubted the rogue raccoon could’ve slept the day away like he did when he tried to avoid him.

He stood in front of a tall, white door. It looked like something you’d find in a children’s movie or fairy tale that told the protagonist there was some sort of grand adventure on the other side…

How boring.

Without bothering to knock, Remus opened the door to his brother's room. Maybe for Janus, he would have knocked. There was hardly anything that could truly shock him anymore with all the fun little fantasies that ran through his head, but Janus’ wrath was something he would save for a day when he needed that extra kick.

Then again, maybe he was wrong to say that he couldn't be shocked. Not when Prince Perfect’s room was such a mess. Not when one of his mirrors had been knocked to the floor. And certainly not when he took in the sight of the other half of Creativity, sitting there at the side of his bed in his black undershirt and dress pants.

Something in Remus’ guts told him there was something wrong here, and this time it wasn’t because he had been impaled or ate something Logan and Janus insisted he shouldn’t have. No, this was something else. Something he hadn’t been allowed to see since the two split up. One brother deciding he needed to be pure as white, and the other allowing himself to be the darkest black imaginable.

He stepped closer. Roman hadn’t made a sound, not yet, but it felt like approaching a lion. A lion that stood for courage yet fell to shattered pieces of what it once was.

And maybe if he hadn’t been feeling real, genuine concern for something other than Thomas’ lack of flare in his art, he would have laughed when his mind went to Scar and Mufasa.

It wasn’t like he cared though. Concern, maybe. But he couldn’t be bothered to care for his brother who he hardly ever spoke to for purposes other than making him uncomfortable with his ideas.

Roman shifted on his bed, still not bothering to look to see who entered. “I already told you I don’t want to talk about it.”

Remus rolled his eyes. Of course his brother would choose to be a little bitch about this.

“First off, you didn’t tell me shit.” He said. Roman sat up, looking at him. A mix of defense and curiosity in his glare. “Second, I’m not the one making your life any harder than I normally would.” His brother scoffed. “Aren’t you though?”

“You’re the one affecting my work!”

Roman huffed, pulling his legs up to his chest and hugging them closely. He liked the pressure. Logan would probably be able to tell him why if he asked. He remembered hearing a conversation between him and Virgil when the darker first showed up. Something about pressure was a stress reliever.

At the same time, Remus crossed his arms, tapping his boots and rubbing his fingers against his sleeves. Whatever response he had been waiting for didn’t come. Maybe he should leave. Pretend whatever this was wasn’t happening and go focus on something else until the other half got his shit together. That would be a lot easier than standing here, the air of the room suffocating him into silence.

Either way, neither brother knew what to say. It would be easy for the pensive prince to turn around, to tell the other not to speak to him and to go back to wherever he came from. At least it should have been.

Remus bit down on his lip not minding the pain. It wouldn’t do any good to try to beat at what was already broken. “I can go find someone else.” It was more of a statement than an offer.

His twin tensed. “Please don’t.”

Remus just nodded. He didn’t know what to do or what to say. Normally he didn’t have to think this hard. He didn’t want to care about his brother and his problems. He knew at least part of the reason behind the other’s mood was because of him because Roman hated him and being compared to him. Yet still, despite being twins he couldn’t help but feel like he had to care for his baby brother.

‘What the fuck am I supposed to do now?’

He was Dark Creativity, the embodiment of intrusive thoughts and other so-called disturbing ideas and imagery. It wasn’t something that ever upset him, and hell it was fun making the other Sides and Thomas uncomfortable. It was fun telling Patton things that would make him shift in his seat and try to change the topic as if nothing had happened. It was fun to create thoughts that would fuel anxiety and haunt the sad little Side who harbored them. It was more than amusing to sit beside Roman, watching as he tried to do his work and ignore his bothersome brother’s constant suggestions that ruined his fairytale fantasies.

If Thomas didn’t want to use all the available ingredients he gave him to create that was fine. He could manage just fine! Really, the repression only made him stronger.

But Roman knew how to make people feel those warm fuzzy feelings that were like caterpillars in your ribs. Something that looking at it now, maybe Remus regretted not trying to pick up on the wholesome little messages that his brother always cared about. At least maybe then he’d have a better idea how to deal with all of these emotions going on. Even Logan would have done better in this situation.

His brother sighed, sitting up and turning to finally face him. He looked worse than expected. No wonder he didn’t want to see anyone else. Remus couldn’t tell what he was feeling, taking in the sight of this mess. Roman’s brow furrowed, his jaw clenched. He leaned against the wall with his arms crossed, his nails digging into his skin.

“Why are you still here?” He asked.

Remus bit his lip and chose to ignore the question. “I know you’re pissed about Jan being accepted.”

“Yeah duh,” Roman scoffed. He sounded like a dam ready to break. “Excuse me for not being absolutely overjoyed at this… Manipulative Malefactor being accepted by our very own Moralidad.”

The Duke nodded. Sure, you could call him friends with Double D, but he wasn’t going to be like him and lie and deny that Janus certainly had… a way… of getting what he wanted, whether it meant using others as a stepping stone or not.

“I never should have trusted him.” Roman continued. “I mean, I never even liked him. Hell, right after he revealed himself to Thomas I said I hated him… I only went along with what he wanted because he pretended to be someone I’m supposed to be able to trust, and then he used me again by flattering me with fake love and bringing up Thomas’ dreams. And I just– I just keep falling for it because I’m an idiot and I keep fucking everything u—”

He hadn’t noticed Remus approaching him or pulling him into a hug until it happened.

It was tense at first. Roman froze at contact. Slowly, he sunk into his brother's arms, not caring about the way the material scratched against his face. He just wanted to feel safe.

“What’s happening?” He asked.

Remus wasn’t sure he had an answer.

“I think Patton would refer to it as brotherly bonding, but I really don’t know.” Remus laughed lightly.

Eventually, Remus slowly pushed his brother off of him, still holding onto his shoulders and smiling in a way he could only hope came off as sympathetic. On any other occasion, Roman would despise the fact that his brother was just the tiniest bit taller than him, but right now he didn’t care. He wouldn’t tell him it was good for hugs though, he hadn’t lost all of his dignity.

“Listen, Ro-bro, we’re twins. What affects you affects me too. I know it might not change much, and you might still not want to be around me. That’s fine. Just… remember that we’re two Sides in a trenchcoat trying to make up for one, got it?” Roman nodded, rubbing at his eyes and smiling slightly. “I would have expected a darker way of phrasing that from you.”

Remus shook his head. “I may not think much, but I do know enough to understand it’s probably not the best timing for it.”

He smiled, watching as his brother lightened up a bit.

The room was still a mess. They’d have to fix it up later. Not right now though, he didn’t think his brother was ready enough to face his own destruction.

“C’mon, get your outfit on.” “Huh?” “You weren’t planning to stay locked up in here like Rapunzel all day, were you?” “I mean… kind of, yeah?” Remus shook his head. “Not happening,” He said. “We gotta do some dumb shit to make you feel better.” “Ree, I’m fine now, really.”

He ignored him, grabbing Roman’s stupidly bright white shirt off the floor and throwing it at him. Checking around for his sash afterwards.

“You at least gotta put yourself together! I know how you are about your looks– even if mine are better.”

Roman rolled his eyes before pulling his shirt on, grabbing his sash from under his pillow. “I can’t stand you.” They both knew it wasn’t the truth. Not right now at least.

“I’m going to fix… this.” Roman said as he waved his hand in front of his face.

The prince left to his bathroom, grabbing some of his makeup from his desk as he went. Remus flopped onto his brother's bed. This wasn’t exactly where he expected his day to go. It was fine though. Actually, it probably went a lot better than whatever he originally planned. Bitching at Roman could be fun, but he doubted it would have made anything better. Hopefully getting rid of some emotional block would stop the art block too. It sounded like something Logic would approve of.

Remus stared up at the glow in the dark stars that littered his brother’s ceiling. Roman’s room was less loud than usual. More quiet. Like a heartbeat that once echoed so loudly had suddenly stopped, or a fire which finally died out leaving nothing but smoke and ash behind.

He heard it when the faucet turned on, when a hairbrush hit the floor, and when Roman cursed at his eyeliner.

‘His hands must be shaky.’ They’d have to fix that.

Remus got up again, half-assedly making his brother’s bed and tidying up the place. He didn’t know where everything went, so he could only hope he was putting stuff where it shouldn’t have ever been. Even if he was trying to cheer up his brother now didn’t mean he couldn’t work in advance to cause trouble for him later.

When Roman came out he looked as if nothing had happened. Like nobody would be able to look at him and think twice of if he was okay. It was an art in itself to be a raging storm and to settle down to the tranquility of dewdrops on flower petals within a matter of minutes.

When had he learned to do that?

Or maybe it was just that he didn’t spend enough time around the other to know. Maybe if one of the other Sides saw Roman now, they wouldn’t even have to study his movements or expression to know he had been upset. It would be as easy as looking at him and recognizing the scripted smiles and rehearsed words for what they were. Was he really that bad at being a brother to fall for his own twins’ tricks?

Roman shifted on his feet. “So… What are we doing?”

“Oh!” Remus bounced, the beads on his shirt clicking together. “Well I was thinking about it earlier and since Papa Patton and Daddy Dee are spending so much time together–” “Never call them that ever again.” “You never let me have fun! But fine. You know how those two have been hanging out more.”

“I can’t let you do anything mean to Patton, he’s off limits.”

Remus pouted. “I thought you were mad at him!” “He’s Patton!” Remus glared, and Roman glared back.

Remus sighed. “You’re so lame, but I guess we can just focus on the snake. Oh! And don’t worry, I can take the fault. Besides, I haven’t fucked around with him in a while and have been waiting for a good day to do it.” He grinned. Roman would have considered it evil, but this, this was pure sibling mischief. “I was thinking we could start subtle like moving his shit 2 inches to the left and work our way up from there. I was thinking about leaving my pet rats in his room and letting them go wild, but he is a snake and I don’t trust like that…”

Roman tried to stifle a laugh. Remus tried not to smile. Remus turned away, heading to his room to put his abandoned work away before anything else. Roman, he noticed, hadn’t followed. Slowly, he turned to him. “Are you coming?” “Oh, yeah I just...“ Roman paused, taking a deep breath and smiling softly. A real smile, not the mask he had given before. “Thank you. For doing all this.” Remus’ eyes softened, nodding as he spoke again. “Don’t go getting too soft on me, Ro-bro. I’m still going to attack your side of the Imagination.”

“I wouldn’t expect anything less.” The two brothers stood there, an awkward yet comfortable quiet moment of understanding neither wanted to interrupt. “C’mon,” Remus said, waving his brother along. “We have vengeance in our hearts and glitter in our pockets. Let’s fuck shit up.”

The prince glanced to himself in the mirror. Now wasn’t the time to focus on his shattered world view, or how his brother may not be as horrible as he thought. Now was the time to have fun messing with the one who had messed with him.

He looked to his brother, eyes sparkling. “Let’s do it.”

#Sanders Sides #Roman Sanders #Remus Sanders #Creativitwins #platonic creativitwins #aaa #I hope this is good #Virgil's Volumes

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jadienjaystoriesandart · 4 years ago

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I just got done watching a video that pointed out how a couple in a book series I read is bad for each other. Thus, after that trip and long conversations with my fellow fanders IRL I’m going to be picking apart couples in this web series and why some would work and others wouldn’t.

This will be Part 1

Now keep in mind this is just my personal opinions from what I’ve read and what I’ve seen. Some of it is delving into Fandom area but others will be what we see in Cannon as well. Sometimes couples I like will be ones I pick on because objectively they just aren’t good for each other.

With that in mind let’s get started with the most well known couples.

Prinxiety (Roman/Virgil) - Everyone's favorite couple to either put through so much angst that I think these people either are really moody or have went through alot of shit. Like seriously, the amount of angst you find just is astonishing... And sometimes very unrealistic, but I digress. But, though I like this couple in some instances, I find their relationship to be toxic and unreliable.

Take into account their personalities in the series. Roman often shows his love by belittling or insulting a person. A thing we as fanders know to be because of his own insecurities. Now in comparison to self loathing and hating Virgil, who just takes it and even contributes to it. Regardless of if it’s just Virgil’s sense of humor, that still doesn’t make it right. How many friends do you know that insult you or don’t help you see the good in you. I can’t think of many instances where Roman, like Patton, would pick up Virgil after he tries to self-hate. Patton actively, though in a babying way, at least tries to tell Virgil he’s wrong about his hate. Which as we see takes our anxiety friend by surprise.

Also there is the fact that Roman, as we saw in SvS Redux, really needs someone to be there for him. Virgil however also needs this. And this implies that if they were to be together it’s just be a struggle to get anywhere. Not to say it couldn’t work, but it’d take alot of time. Roman would need to be more confident in himself and not take it out on others. And Virgil would be to be confident also and stop taking harsh words and such lying down. ‘

Though it is clear from the newest asides they do care about each other.

All around a couple that has some issues that would make a romantic relationship hard. Platonic sure, I can see it because it works, but not romantic as neither I feel would suit the others needs.

Logicality (Logan/Patton) - I do actually love this pairing, it’s cute and fluffy at times when the fandom puts them together. Not alot of angst I’ve found despite being popular couple number 2. However, with how the cannon portrays them to each other, they won’t work as a romantic couple in real life.

To explain, Patton is very controlling, we see this through out the series. We know he doesn’t mean to be sometimes, but clearly being the side Thomas listens to the most, means he clearly has alot of power in the mindscape. Logan, by contrast, is very cold at times and very distant when it comes to his feelings or expressing them. Something he needs to work on.

Several times we see Patton trying to force Logan to do things he doesn’t want to. The episode I feel this is highlighted in the most is Learning New Things About Ourselves. Logan isn’t one to just open up about things like how Patton, Roman, even Virgil are. Being these sides deal the most in feelings of many times. Logan himself is a logical side, he things critically and prefers facts to solve problems. Patton however is very open and very feeling. And tries through out the episode to get Logan to express. Logan clearly is reluctant to do so, because it’s not his area and it’s not his thing.

With people like this you can’t force them to open up, you can’t force them to express to you. It’ll just end terribly when you do and can even push them farther away. Which is what I think if happening with Logan. Throughout this episode Logan expresses faintly that he doesn’t want to be see as a ‘Joke’ to them, because after all he’s logic. But the other keep disregarding him. Something it feels they are even guilt tripping him into it. Though we do see that Thomas tells them not to force Logan.

To sum it up, Patton and Logan as a couple would be a rocky one at best because Logan can’t emote well and Patton can’t back off well. Both need to learn this because they could be a couple.

Dukceit (Remus/Janus) - We don’t know alot about their relationship to really go into how they function. But if what Thomas said about the fandom being pretty spot on about their time together, then we can assume that as a couple they are pretty stable at times compared to most. Janus clearly cares about Remus enough to listen to him and take in what he has to say where others won’t. And Remus, by extension, shows his appreciation by ‘gifting’ Janus with things. Possibly Remus seems to just love the attention and loves that someone doesn’t find him gross or immature.

Janus clearly, if we are to go by fandom and Thomas’s words, wants Remus happy and they do seem to share a connection and lots of laughs. I don’t ship these guys though, but if we are to go off of these things they would work rather well as a couple. Unless we find out more, this seems to be the outcome.

Royality (Roman/Patton) - Now I’m not here to argue about how characters in a relationship would treat others around them. Just how they were treat each other. While I am of the opinion this couple would be a bit of a powerhouse to others they do work well together in some sense. Both are peppy and upbeat, Roman easily picks up Patton when he’s in a funk and vice versa. The amount of serotonin between these two dorks is something to marvel at.

Granted in the new episode we see that there is some tension with Patton having really forced his own morals on Roman and this leads to tension when accepting new sides. But, as a couple they would work. I can’t see points that they lead each other one nor points were one tries to control the other, and in terms of words it’s mostly of encouragement. Patton clearly does care about Roman and Roman to Patton. This pairing really works well, has some rocky moments that can easily work through as no couple truly is 100% perfect, as I pointed out with the others.

But out of all of the ones mentioned this one has the least amount of rough patches. They work together and don’t actively put the other down or force them 24/7. This does happen, but not often. And I don’t pair them often, just from time to time.

Analogical (Logan/Virgil) - These two are actually really adorable together and through out the series I can confidently say they would be great for each other. And this isn’t just me saying it, from all the evidence we see Logan and Virgil together just works.

Logan has a calm disposition and is firm when he has to be, never once have I really seen them lash out at each other with harsh words. Only instance that comes to mind is when Virgil calls Logan a ‘Clueless idiot’. But that’s about it, any other time, even during the debate, afterwards they aren’t at each others throats and both seem to be rather comfortable around each other. Logan could easily be the rock Virgil needs to stand on his own but in his own time.

Virgil however is a good push for Logan, as he himself knows the value of taking your time. I can’t seem Virgil in the cannon ever forcing Logan, even in LNTAO Virgil was the only side that didn’t belittle Logan that much. Virgil was even reluctant, even if he was pressured into it in the end, and I can only think of once in which he did say something harsh to Logan... which was after Logan lashed out at Roman. (With semi good reason). Virgil easily could be that silent partner that Logan needs to feel something but within his own time.

Granted it’d be a long courtship and time for them to learn each others cues as Logan is hard to give out love. But once he does open up he’s a mess that needs to be loved back. Same goes for Virgil, but where they work and Prinxiety doesn’t is that they are both used to giving gestures and reading the air. Where we have established Roman isn’t really good at. Virgil could pick up easily when Logan is having problems and when to approached. And Logan is good at understanding when people need space and isn’t afraid to just talk about it rather than let things linger.

They’d still have their problems, what couple doesn’t. But it wouldn’t be near as bad as some of the others.

Moxiety (Patton/Virgil) - Where to start with this... I mean, it’s not a bad pairing but it’s also not a great pairing. Not for reasons some think. Honestly I could care less about the argument of ‘Son/Father’ shit that is peddled. It’s been established that Patton thinks of all the sides as ‘Kiddos’ even Thomas, even if none of it is true and Virgil and Patton are technically the same fucking age as Thomas is. Patton just is the group ‘dad’ and truly believes this.

I digress, as for how they work as a couple it could be good or bad. This is one that it really does depend on how you look at the series as a while. Me, I’m on the fence. On the one hand Patton is a good self esteem booster for Virgil when the other needs it. And Virgil is calm and understanding of how much feelings can be. On the other hand Patton can be very forceful with Virgil and sometimes even baby him as we saw in the halloween episode. And Virgil does resent this, stating he is strong enough and doesn’t need to be coddled.

Clearly there is a imbalance of power there also as Patton is possibly and ‘older’ side as in he’s been around with Thomas much longer. Thus is why he’s the one most listened to. While Virgil doesn’t have as much power as the other sides in terms of the amount he’s listened to. It’s getting better though, Patton is trying to baby him less and let him really be heard. He’s listening to Virgil rather than assuming things. It’s slow, but it’s working.

In the end, it’s really on how you see it. This could either be a really good couple or really bad couple depending on how one writes them. Cannonly, it could work with time, but we’ll have to see as the series goes.

Logince (Roman/Logan) - Not sure where to start with this one. Maybe at the fact Roman picks on Logan just as much as he does Patton. Or maybe with how Logan doesn’t take it laying down, most of the time, and does have a sharp tongue to lash back.

These two are at tensions with each other, even after Why We Get Out Of Bed In The Mornings. Heck that was a whole episode about the tensions! And there is still tension as we go. Roman really needs to get a handle on his self esteem issues before pursuing any relationship I feel. Something I think is going to come up as Thomas enters one.

Logan has been seen lashing out verbally and once even psychically at Roman. He felt bad afterwards, but we can’t say it wasn’t justified with how Roman treated him. Having problems with feeling like he’s not listened to, interrupted, and something even insulted. And again Roman’s problems with insulting others to boost his confidence comes back into play. Why it doesn’t affect him with Patton is because with the moral side Roman feels wanted and needed, with the others he lashes out because they make him feel that way.

Logan even did insult some of Roman’s passions, which we know to be a sore spot for the creative side. Roman already has many problems as he’s limited by what is morally right and wrong. He puts time and effort into his things, and it hurts when someone comes along and insults you’re hard work.

Now whether they meant to do this too each other or not is up or debate. You could argue that Roman’s problem is internal and not directed at anyone. You could argue the same for Logan, or argue that the others need to learn that what they are doing is harsh even if they don’t mean it. Regardless this couple would really need to work on these problems before ever getting together. It’s not something small like communication or feeling problems and can be fixed with the right person. This is them both putting the other know, internationally or not. And that’s not a healthy relationship at all.

I’d say after they work through that Roman could be with just about any side. And some goes for Logan with Patton or Roman. With Virgil it’s not a huge problem as Logan never once has taken out his frustration on him, might be due to Virgil’s calmer nature, who knows.

So yeah, that’s the end of part one. I’m not saying none of this would work, I’m saying with how they are NOW they wouldn’t work. We’ll have to see have the series progress how it goes.

#sanders sides #thoughts on pairings #logicality #royality #prinxiety #moxiety #logince #analogical #i think I got them all in this post #lost post #some personal opinions #ts logan #ts virgil #ts roman #ts patton #dukxiety #ts janus #ts deceit #ts remus

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anyarally · 4 years ago

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Sanders Sides Secret Santa Gift!

@sanderssidesgiftxchange

For: @authorgirl0131 Wish 1: Intruloceit Christmas fluff Wish 2: Sympathetic Deceit whump Wish 3: Logan and Deceit Christmas fluff Ao3 (it’s formatted better on there lol)

Janus, Logan, and Remus Have the Best Christmas Ever

Janus is upset after SvS Redux, so Remus and Logan try to help. Plus Christmas fluff!

We are ethically compromised if we give him a seat at the table

Snake

Liar

Rude

Spiteful

Jealous

Evil

Villain

The Light Sides’ words haunt Janus every night, only getting worse once Virgil leaves. The worst part is… he knows they’re not lying. Every insult, every implication, every rude remark, every single one was true. At least, to those who spoke them it was.

He sits alone in his room every night, Remus usually coming to check on him. Tonight, though, is special. Janus just fought with all the Lights, and told them his name! It was one thing when Remus did it, he’s crazy and unpredictable! When Janus does it… it’s serious.

Remus knocks aggressively on the ornate gold door, “Hey, ‘Anus?! You wanna hang out some? We could decapitate some of Roman’s dumb unicorns in the imagination, I sensed some trespassing earlier!”

Deceit startles on his bed, throwing back the covers (which he really shouldn’t be under this early in the evening) and mumbles just loud enough to hear, “Not tonight, Ree, I’m too tired.”

“Is it because of something they said again? I told them not to get to you, just because we’re different doesn’t mean we’re bad.”

“It doesn’t matter, Remus, just go take care of those unicorns. Maybe tomorrow we can hang out, ok?”

“Oh, um, ok. See you at dinner?”

“I don’t know if I’ll be up to it. Sorry.”

“Alright, let me know if you need anything?”

There was no response. Remus sighed, slumping away to his room.

This went on for weeks. Every day, Janus would come out for breakfast, unhinge his jaw and eat enough for the day, even though he used to eat the same as Remus(in moderation, he refuses to eat eyeballs and pubic hair). Eventually, after about two and a half weeks, Remus had had enough.

When Janus slouched into the kitchen for his daily meal, Remus slammed his hand on the table, “You are coming with me to the imagination!”

“No, Remus. I’m too tired.”

“Nope, nuh-uh, none of that ‘tired’ bullshit, you’ve said that every day for the last month!”

“Re-”

“Nope nope nope! Come with me!” Remus yelled, grabbing Janus’s arm with an unsurprisingly terrifying grin on his face.

Remus dragged Janus to the sickly stone mirror with green ooze globbing out that leads to the imagination, the snake complaining and protesting the whole way.

Once they got there though, none of the things that usually made him happy worked. When Remus had him attack Roman’s unicorns, he only said he didn’t want to make their relationship with the Light Sides even worse. They visited Janus’s giant golden two-headed snake, Eilonwy and Ethelinda, and Janus couldn’t even look her in the eyes(either set of them!). Remus even tried having him watch live musicals by sneaking into Roman’s side of the imagination, but it only reminded him of the movie nights everyone but the Dark Si- now, just Janus were invited too. Remus had stopped going, but still.

After the day spent trying to cheer Janus up in the imagination had no success, Remus decided to bring in the big guns.

The next day, Janus surprisingly didn’t get any visits from Remus. Just one text of a .gif that was weird as hell.

The day after that, however, Janus heard three precise knocks at his door, at precisely 9:00 am. He yelled out, “Remus! Just stop already! I’m fine!” The only response was another precise three knocks at his door at 9:01 am. He only grunted and curled into his heated blanket more, assuming it’s just another one of Remus’s dumb pranks.

After three knocks every minute on the minute for half an hour, Janus caved and opened the door, immediately protesting, “Remus, I swear to Thomas, I-” he stopped dead in his tracks when he looked up and saw who he was objecting to, “Logan?”

“Hello, De- Janus. Remus informed me he was concerned about you, so I have come to see,” Logan pulled out his notecards, “What is up?”

Janus chuckled, pulling the door open wider, “Okay Logan, you can come in.”

Janus puts his hat on as they walk inside, Logan looking around and noticing so much clutter. From what Remus had told him, Janus was a very organized person, almost obsessively so. Plus, the room wasn’t very warm at all, which cannot be good for someone cold-blooded.

When Logan comments on this, Janus simply brushes him off, saying he hasn’t had the time to clean up and his usual heaters would be a fire hazard with the mess.

They sit on some large extravagant armchairs in front of a fireplace, Logan favoring the black one with gold beading while Janus takes the deep yellow one with shiny black beading.

As they sit down, Janus lights the fire with a wave of his hand, trying (and failing) to subtly change his outfit into a clean one from his closet. Logan notices, but decides not to comment.

“So, what did Remus send you for again?”

“Well he didn’t exactly send me, per se, I reached out to him because I hadn’t seen you in a while, he said he would handle it, then he got me when that didn’t work.”

“Wait, really?”

“Yes, of course. I tried to bring it up to the other Light Sides, but they would not listen. Therefore, going to Remus, and consequently, you, was the best option.”

“Wow, uh, thanks, Logan, I really appreciate that. I assumed none of the Light Sides thought about how things would make us feel.”

“Granted, that is a fair assumption,” Logan quieted down, facing Janus’s bookshelves and silently reading the titles he has, mentally comparing it to books he’s read.

Janus wanted to question Logan about that, but decided to try and get to the point gradually instead, saying, “Logan,” said Side looked up at Janus, “I just want you to know that I’m sorry.”

This made Logan pause and think. After about fifteen painfully silent seconds for Janus, Logan started speaking again, “I apologize, but I do not understand. What are you sorry for exactly?”

“For, ya know, the last video.”

Logan stares at Janus.

Janus groans, “You’re really going to make me say it, huh? Okay, I’m sorry for taking your place earlier in the video.”

“Oh. Yes. That.” Logan stops, trying to formulate a response, “It is quite alright, Janus. While I was a bit hurt in the moment, I appreciate you figuratively beating some sense into the others.”

“Are you sure that you’re actually alright, though?”

“I… well, I do wish you had simply told me.” After Janus sends Logan a questioning look, Logan adds, “I know I would’ve been happy to step down and even let you disguise yourself as me, you didn’t need to knock me out. With those two, it’s very… difficult to get them to actually consider things, I know that first hand, so I entirely understand why disguising yourself as me was the most efficient way to get through to them.”

“Oh, I… I’m so sorry Logan, I hadn’t even considered that. I’m just used to expecting a no, I…”

“As stated before, it’s quite alright. Besides, I’m the one who should be apologizing.”

“What do you mean?”

Logan sighs, looking down at his shoes, “I should’ve spoken up sooner. About the Lights’ treatment of you, I mean. They were unnecessarily cruel to you, and I just stood by. I was… scared. I almost spoke up when Virgil hissed at you when you came to get your hat back from Roman, but I don’t know the whole story between you and Virgil, and I didn’t want to impose. Additionally, I…” Logan took a deep breath, doing a round of the 4, 7, 8 exercise Virgil taught them, “I was scared of being left out. I know I’ve said I don’t have feelings, but I was,” Logan chuckles, “deceitful, in that aspect.”

“Logan,” Janus seemed to be on the brink of tears of relief, “thank you so much. That means so much to me, I… hey, uh, would you want to come over for a movie night this Friday? I know movie nights with the Lights are on Saturdays, so…?”

“That sounds delightful,” Logan started to get up, “I will see you then. I apologize, but I must go. Thomas needs me at my best, I sense he’s about to start editing a new video.”

“No worries, Logan, I’ll see ya Friday.”

And so, Logan came over that Friday, and the Friday after that. After weeks of being holed up in his room, Janus started to come out more often, and Remus was very happy to see more of him. Logan started coming over every Friday, and as time went on, he even started coming over more often just to enjoy Remus and Janus’s company. Sometimes, he would visit Remus’s side of the imagination with them, other times, he would exchange books with Janus and discuss them, and eventually, he would even start inviting Janus and Remus over to view the constellations with him as he explained them and showed them the stars with his telescope.

This went on for months, and eventually, the Light Sides noticed. Whenever asked, though, Logan only stated he needed more time to himself. They laid off for a while, but eventually, it got a little suspicious, especially when they started hearing other voices coming from his room.

Finally, Patton decided to investigate. He heard the voices in Logan’s room while getting him for famILY dinner, and leaned up against the door before knocking.

“And here you’ll see MACS 2129-1, often referred to as the ‘Zombie Galaxy,” Logan happily explains.

“Oh fuck yes!” Remus yells, in turn causing a chuckle to emanate from Janus.

Logan chuckles as well, “Fuck yes indeed, Remus,” Patton gasps almost involuntarily but stays quiet enough so no one notices, “This massive, disk-shaped galaxy spins twice as fast as the Milky Way does, but it's still not nearly as active. Hubble observations of the distant galaxy reveal that it hasn't made stars for approximately 10 billion years. MACS 2129-1 is what's known as a ‘dead galaxy,’ since stars no longer form there. Scientists believed that galaxies of this sort had formed by merging with smaller galaxies over time, but MACS 2129-1's stars didn't form from these sorts of explosive mergers; they formed early on, in the disk of the original galaxy. The findings suggest that dead galaxies somehow internally rearrange their structure as they age rather than changing shape because they combine with other galaxies. I, er, I’m sorry I’m babbling, aren’t I?”

Janus shushes Logan, “No, Logan, we’ve been over this,” Janus gently places his hand on Logan’s slowly reddening cheek, “We love to hear you talk, especially about things that make you happy. Isn’t that right, Remus?”

“Hell yeah, Lo! I love hearing you get so excited about stuff, and I love learning about the stars with you, you’re a great teacher!”

By now, Patton had decided he didn’t want to intrude, he was proud of his kiddos. Logan, for reaching out and making more friends, and Janus and Remus for making Logan feel loved in a way that Patton just couldn’t seem to. He leaned back from the door and walked by, deciding to text Logan to let him know about dinner so he could come if he wanted but he didn’t have to cut his time with the Dark Sides short.

Meanwhile, Logan looked down at his phone and sighed.

“What is it, Lo-Lo?” Remus tilted his head so far to the left his head broke off.

As Remus smacked his head back in place, Logan sighed, “Patton says dinner’s about to start. I really should go.”

“You don’t have to, Logan, you know that right?”

“Yes, I’m aware but I haven’t gone all week and I’m concerned the Lights will think I’m not eating at all. I wouldn’t want Patton to get… upset.”

“Okay, okay, we all remember when Patton went all Hop Pop.”

Logan looked at both of them again with a small, but genuine, smile, dropping it as he sank down to the Light Side’s dining room.

Dinner was… awkward, to say the least.

Patton tried to break the ice, “So, Logan, you’ve been spending a lot of time in your room?”

There was a long, long pause.

“Apologies, I now realize that was a question. I assumed it was a statement. Yes, I have been spending a lot of time in my room.”

“May we ask why?” Roman sarcastically asked.

“I find that I’m more productive when I stay in my room.”

“Well, I’ve heard some other voices coming from your room…” Patton hesitantly added.

“What are you insinuating, Patton.” Logan harshly said, not asked, eyes harsh and cold.

“Well, I, uh-”

Virgil gently cut off Patton’s scrambling, “You know that we won’t be mad if you want to hang out with Remus and Janus, right?”

“Right!” Patton started, “We were actually talking about it some earlier, and we’d love to start having them over for famILY meals too!”

Logan raised an eyebrow, “Is Roman on board with this?”

Roman sighed, “I may have some issues with my brother, but a true prince wouldn’t stop other relationships from forming just because he didn’t like the other party. I know Remus, and he won’t hurt you,” he thought back to the shuriken, “well, not permanently at least.”

Logan smiled, the first genuine smile he had shown the Light Sides in months. “I can tell them.”

“Wait, Logan,” Logan looks back at Patton, “Christmas is this Friday, and well I can’t think of a better day to expand our famILY!”

Logan chuckled, “I’ll let them know,” he started to head back to his room but paused and turned to look back at the Lights, “Oh, and I’m staying with them on Christmas Eve. Apologies.”

“No problem, Logan! Thanks for letting us know!”

Once Logan got back to his room, he gave the Dark Sides the news. “Remus, Janus, I have some news.”

Remus popped up from where he was looking at his newest dagger under Logan’s covers, “Oooh? What is it, Wolverine?”

“Patton, and subsequently the other Light Sides, have invited you two and I to a famILY meal on Christmas,” Logan noticed how Janus and Remus’s eyes lit up but ignored it in favor of finishing his announcement, “I have informed them that I will be with you on Christmas Eve.”

Janus smiled, “That’s great! So, you told them about us?” Logan sat at his chess table with Janus, “Well, technically they guessed, but yes. They asked about me spending time in my room, then stated they did not disapprove of our… relationship, I suppose.”

Janus smiled, “That’s great, Lo.”

That Christmas Eve, the trio sat around the fireplace in the Dark Side’s living room. They cuddled together under a Big Hero 6 blanket while watching Die Hard, which they all of course agreed was the best Christmas movie. They had stayed up pretty late, and once the movie was over, Remus started excitedly jumping up and down, “It’s after midnight! It’s officially Christmas!”

Logan sleepily checked his watch, “You are correct, but I do not see how this is currently relevant?”

“Now I can give you guys my presents!”

Remus kept bouncing on the balls of his feet until Janus happily sighed, “Alright, what did you get us?”

Remus squealed, “I’ll show you!” while running to his room.

Janus and Logan chuckled together until Logan spoke up, “I, ahem, got you gifts as well. Would it be adequate for me to go get them?”

“Sure, I actually got some for you guys too. We’ll all go get them and meet back here.”

Logan smiled, nodded, and sank out.

When they all returned, they all had light blushes on their faces. “Who would like to go first? In handing out their presents, that is.” Logan awkwardly asked.

“I do!” Remus excitedly shouted. Logan and Janus were very much not surprised, and they all sat down on the carpet in front of the couch.

Once they were seated, Remus yeeted the presents at their recipients, both of which catching their present with ‘oof’s.

Janus ripped his open to reveal a long black cape with golden lining. He was about to start thanking Remus for the warm fabric when the clasp on it caught his eye. He looked closer, seeing a beautiful silver clasp depicting a snake and eight tentacles wrapping around a unicorn. Not trapping it, it felt more like… hugging. Protecting. He flipped it over to see an engraving, ‘J.L.R.’ “Thank you, Remus! I especially like the clasp, and the warmth and style are both surprisingly practical!”

Logan respectfully undid the poorly done tape and placed the wrapping paper to the side, opening the box to see some soft black and white fabric. When he took it out of the box and unfolded it, he saw it was a new unicorn onesie, this one black with stars instead of white, with a rainbow horn, lining, and wrists. Logan started to tear up, holding it back when he addressed Remus, “Thank you, Remus, this is… perfect.”

Despite how calmly it was stated, Janus and Remus both knew how much something had to mean to Logan for him to call it perfect.

Logan went next, getting Janus a new heated blanket with his yellow two-headed snake logo on it, which he loved. Next, he looked at Remus, “So, I did some research, and I got you something. But before I give it to you, I require confirmation that you will not use this on another side.”

“Ooo! Is it a torture device!?”

“Yes. But you cannot have it until you at least promise me that you will not use this on another side. You can use it on as many of yours or Roman’s unsuspecting imaginary townspeople as you wish, but not. A. Side.”

“Jeez, Wolverine, I promise, okay?! Now gimme.” Remus made grabby hands at Logan.

Logan reached behind his back and emerged with a metal dark grey and green pear-shaped object. He holds it out to Remus and he grabs it, “Remus, this is a Pear of Anguish. The first known account of one is in the 17th century, and it is operated as so,” Logan gently pulls the device back from Remus’s hands and twists the circle at the top, making it pop out into expanding segments, “This simple pear would be placed inside the orifice of a person and then gradually expanded. The kindest use was in a person’s mouth where it would ultimately shatter the skull, causing death. More gruesome is when it was used on parts in the lower half of the body which was rarely fatal, but excruciating.”

Remus giggled at ‘lower half of the body’ “Thank you so much, Logan! I can’t wait to try this out, you’re the best!”

Janus went last, giving Remus a silver tentacle-themed ear cuff, which he enjoyed very much, putting it on right away. Next, he gave Logan a gigantic telescope with stars and math equations all over it, with Logan’s logo big on the side. Logan teared up at the thoughtfulness and hugged Janus tight.

The three ended up spending the whole night and day following snuggling together watching cheesy Christmas romcoms, and drinking hot chocolate.

That evening, on the Light Side of the mindscape, the Lights once again did a Secret Santa. Sadly, Janus and Remus weren’t included since their attendance was decided so late, but Patton made sure to get them each something.

Logan got Roman this year, so he got him a journal full of prompts in which he could write, draw, or brainstorm. Patton got Logan, and he made him a bunch of cupcakes with the Logan’s Berry Crofters Jam, which Logan was eternally thankful for. Roman got Virgil, and he got him a grey weighted blanket which he altered by sewing on purple plaid patches with white thread to match the emo’s hoodie. Virgil was thankful he got Patton, getting him a better gift than before by hand sewing small toys of all of them, sheepishly adding he’d make Remus and Janus too “I guess.” Patton got Remus a stuffed animal of a green octopus with a mustache and he got Janus a stuffed animal of a yellow snake with a bowler hat that had a small heater inside.

Everyone loved their gifts and had a great time, but Logan couldn’t decide what his favorite part of that Christmas was; unwrapping presents with the Dark Sides at midnight or eating Crofters-filled cupcakes with them late Christmas night when all the Light Sides had gone to bed.

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