#this is stuff that i really hope i can make a lot clearer through some fic ideas that have recently bitten my brain

[deadsetobsessions]

Alley Drunk! Danny AU- Pt. 4

[Pt.1] [Pt.2] [Pt.3]

Danny blinked down at the cart, where a red hoodie and pants with red stripes along the side laid over the lip of the cart. Considering they’re in this universe’s brand of Marget- seriously, who names a store Target? If anything in Amity Park was named that, Skulker would have wrecked it in five seconds flat- it’s hilariously on brand. Though, to be fair, this was Gotham’s version too, which meant a lot of security guards (who definitely doubled as goons for the Rogues, Danny was sure) and the vibes were spooky.

“I’m guessing red’s your favorite color.”

Instead of the humorous way he meant the sentence, Jason looked up anxiously and Danny immediately hated himself a little bit more.

“Sh- I can put it back..?” Jason hunched in on himself.

Danny tracked the movement with clearer eyes than he’s had in a long while and ancients, does it remind him of how Dani was in front of Vlad all those years ago. And Danny has spent his entire half life being not like Vlad, so he’s not going to start now.

“Nah, you should definitely add some more stuff. This is no where near enough clothes.”

It really wasn’t. Danny had taken Jason to the store to pick out clothes- “Ther’s a second hand store down the stree’, ya know,” Jason had mumbled when they went through the doors- but the kid had only tentatively put in a small red hoodie and some pants in the cart. Now he had to put this in a way that’ll wipe the stubbornly hesitant look on Jason’s face off.

“Think about it this way, then. You’re repping me now, and while I might be the alley drunk, I’m not the poorly dressed alley drunk, yeah?”

“Oh. Tha’ makes sense.” Jason nodded to himself determinedly, and the kid strode over to the t-shirt section. For all of his confidence, he still glanced back to see if it was okay with Danny.

Well, Dani was the same way before she found her confidence (when she knew Danny wouldn’t abandon her or hurt her) so Danny just gave him a thumbs up before reaching into the rack and sweeping an armful of clothing straight into the cart. Then, he strode over to the jackets and grabbed the ones in Jason’s size and slightly bigger. Oh, he has to grab shoes. He’ll leave that for later, but Danny was going to get those ratty trainers off of Jason’s feet and into the nearest trash can if it was the last thing he does.

The halfa hummed, pausing at the first decidedly not miserable sound he’s made in a while. Dammit, if that wasn’t a sign of Danny’s attachment to Jason, he doesn’t know what would be. To be fair… Danny already committed murder for the kid, which was pretty much something he thought he’d never do, so in for a penny out for a pound or whatever.

He put a significant amount of the budget aside for the section labeled “JASON” so Danny shopped without a worry. Charlie’s ill-gotten assets were a good monetary compensation for his crime of existing near Jason or existing, period.

He picked up toiletries, toothbrushes and the like, when Jason came back sans t-shirt. Instead of a shirt- Danny had actually hoped that Jason would try to get multiple shirts- Jason was clutching a book.

Before he could even voice anything, Danny plucked the book out of his grip and put it into the cart with a disarming smile.

“Oh, good idea. We should get you books too. Wanna go pick out some more?”

“Uh- y’re just gonna get a book, just like that?”

“More than one book, I should hope. You are going to school, right?”

“…Yeah!” Danny couldn’t fathom ever being excited at the thought of school, but as Jason bounced away to peruse the admittedly poor selection of books, Danny couldn’t help but think that maybe he should give this education thing another try. Who knows? Maybe it’ll be less stressful now that he’s not Phantom.

Danny walked to the aisle next to the books and promptly proceeded to shove every single piece of stationary he thought was nice- pens, gel pens, cooling pens and pencils, a thick stack of notebooks, flash cards, etcetera- into the rapidly getting full cart.

Jason came back with three more books- nice, the classics- and froze at the sight of the cart.

“Oh, hey. Getting all of those?”

“Wha’- wha’s wit’ the stuff?”

“School supplies! Quality education starts with quality supplies, you know!” Danny said, a sliver of the grin that used to come so easily to him making an appearance on his face. "Don't worry, I budgeted. See?"

Danny handed Jason a piece of paper, confident that the kid would know if it was good or not.

"Where'd... ya get all of this?"

"Hmm... here and there."

Jason looked up at him, squinting suspiciously. "I hear' Charlie's gone poofed up."

Danny shrugged and put a calculator in the cart. "Oh, I'm sure he's busy."

Yeah, Danny thought vindictively. Busy being dead.

"Ya sound like a walking con," Jason said as he visibly decided to give up fighting against Danny's spending. "We nee' food."

"Gotcha. Well, if you need anything else, just bring it into the cart."

"I want veggies. Frozen, 's cheaper."

Danny nodded, resisting the urge to ruffle Jason's hair.

----

"Hey, you's the Alley Drunk, right? 'Bout that boy you've been toting ar-"

Danny punched the guy in the face, dropping him like a stone. He looked up slowly and swayed.

"Any of you ask about my kid brother again, and I won't bother with being drunk when I hit you."

Rapid nods. Danny shuffled away, satisfied.

----

Two weeks later, after a school day, Danny finds Jason heading to the bathroom with a box of...

"Hair-dye?"

Jason, who was marginally more relaxed and assured that Danny wasn't going to kick him out, nodded.

"Dye's fadin' n' I dun wanna get nabbed on the streets for having red hair."

Danny blinked. "You have red hair?"

"Sure do. See? Roots are showin' again." Jason pointed at his scalp where Danny could see the hair was getting lighter.

"Right. Well- I'll leave you to it. Let me know if you need help, kiddo." Danny said, desperately hoping he hid how off kilter he was feeling well.

"I don't need help, ah've been doing this for ages." The kid went into the bathroom and closed the door harshly. When the lock clicked and the faucet began running, Danny let himself slide down the wall into a crouch, hands cradling his head.

Red hair. Blue eyes. Tan skin. The facial features. The intelligence and empathy.

Danny chuckled hysterically under his breath.

Was Jason this universe's version of Jazz?

"Fuck."

[officialrocketjumper]

HOWDY EVERYONE- so excited to FINALLY be able to show off my piece for this year's Bumbleby Big Bang!

Unfortunately no accompanying story as of yet- but I really hope you guys get to read it someday! The premise involves Yang cursed to be trapped inside a sword, which was an idea I KNEW I had to make move.

Details and development stuff under the cut!

Lots of fun collaboration with the author, Celeste! We worked together to find the look-of-picture, Blake's outfit, how the Grimm look, the style of the sword, the whole shabang! I'm really happy with how it all turned out!

When I first saw all the prompts, even before claims opened, I got to work on a handful of exploration pieces based on some of the summaries, to decide which of the stories I was interested in would be the best fit. Here's the initial idea for this one I put together over a lunch break:

After showing Celeste, we got to work finding the look we wanted! Went back and forth a bit and found this great look for Blake! Also shoutout to Pinterest boards for visdev inspiration I love you Pinterest boards.

Just about everything stayed to final anim, with the simplification of getting rid of that purple cloth hanging from her belt, (since I already had the rope ends to think about working with), and the light purple strap across the chest, since leaving it out would simplify the linework on her chest.

The sword also went through a bit of change! Celeste had the idea of Yang making the sword catch on fire, which I LOVED. I went with a split design so we can see the fire more clearly start from the hilt and grow to cover the whole blade.

And from there we brainstormed animation ideas! I went all over Youtube for video reference of sword work (that would be complex enough to be interesting, but short enough to be manageable). I found something we liked from Motion Actor Inc., a channel I've used LOTS for both personal and professional work (I work in 3D Animation, for those who don't know). I edited this together, to see the action from multiple places at once, which gave me the idea for that camera move that's in the final anim!

Now for the fun part! Make that badboy MOVE. For the cam turn, the first frame she's in the air I'm referencing the top left video, and the frame she lands I'm referencing the bottom left one. While she's airborne I'm just inbetweening that! No reference for the Grimm, just wanted it responding to her attacks, but I end up tweaking the roughs later on to make the block feel stronger.

Then from there we had to actually figure out Grimm designs! Nimona had just released, and Celeste and I loved it, so she asked if I could take some inspiration from Nimona's shadow form! GLADLY. Here's what I came up with!

I was going between how the movies and comic designed Nimona, really loving the almost liquid shadow of the movie, but also how the comics had this broken up/held together rougher form. Celeste liked the second to last one the best! The original plan was to have it leave a wispy shadow trail like the concept art, but to simplify the animation we left it solid instead!

Next up is tiedown! Basically just getting the roughs more on-model, so the lineart comes out nice and clean. I've also transferred the new Grimm design to the base from earlier, and fire's also outlined orange so it reads clearer. (SPOILER- if you look REAL close here, you can see Yang visible in the fire! I liked the idea of Blake's slash also doubling as Yang throwing a punch. The idea is in the concept art earlier but now it's working with the action.)

Next step- final look of picture!! I asked Celeste for sources of inspiration to draw from when thinking about environment design, and we got Nimona, She-Ra, and Owl House! Used each of those as springboards for shading style, colour palettes, and how the fire would look!

From there, we kept the straight trees/bush/lake/foreground greenery from the first one, the blues from the second, and the fire from the third!

Once I had this frame, it was a matter of working backwards and making the background work pre-camera turn (which was ABSOLUTELY the most challenging part of this process). Learned a lot doing this! Procreate isn't quite equipped to make something like this efficient, but I'm pleased to say that Dreams would make something like this easier in the future (keyframing objects instead of hand-drawing/spacing duplicates by hand, for example).

From then on it was just colouring the lineart, adding shading, and finishing up the background! Beginning-to-end this whole process was beginning of July to end of October!

I had an absolute BLAST putting all this together. Here's to next year where I find a way to do something even more ridiculously complicated!! It's fun!!!

[thanotaphobia]

STAR-CROSSED LOVER BOYS.

purgatory is going to destroy me

crossposted to ao3

⋆

“There you are.”

Missa yelps, his whole body flinching– the ax in his hand drops to the ground with a thud. For a second he thinks about running, but then the words register, and the voice, and he whirls around.

“Philza,” he says, a mixture of delight and anxiety thrumming through him. “How did you–”

“Your guys’ base is not hard to find,” Phil says, hands in his pockets as he surveys the area around them with a critical eye. Missa wonders if he's trying to hide the blood underneath his nails. “You should probably move underground.”

“Maybe,” Missa says. “What’s up? Need something?” He’s a little wary– people have been killing, he knows that very well. He trusts Phil, but still. He’s seen the chat messages. 

“Not really,” Phil says. “Most of my team is out and around I got bored. Wanna walk?”

“Walk where?” Missa looks around the wasteland they’re calling home for now.

“I dunno. Somewhere?” Phil smiles at him and Missa smiles back, unsure.

“This feels like a trap,” he says.

Missa kicks his ax to the side where it will be safe and taking Phil’s hand when it’s offered. “Are you going to kill me?”

“I would never,” Phil promises, and they start walking together. “Ye of little faith, man.”

“Everything’s just gone crazy,” Missa says with a laugh, swinging their hands between them. The camp turns to beach turns to forest, both of them relishing in the shade of the trees as they amble along. “I hope we get to go home soon. I miss it.”

“I hope they leave our houses alone,” Phil nods. “Something weird is going on, and I don’t trust it. Yesterday was nuts but I feel clearer today. My head. Less tired.”

“Same,” Missa nods. “I kept getting killed and the respawn was awful.” He’s not exaggerating– something about the respawn on this island is different, lingering in his limbs and sending pins and needles up his body every time he wakes up. The pain echoes, and he knows he’s not the only one because Phil just nods, mouth set in a firm line.

“It’s probably on purpose,” he says. “To mess with us. I think a lot of things are. It’s definitely getting to some of the others.”

“Not you?” Missa asks, pausing mid step to look at Phil. “Are you alright?” He reaches out, takes Phil’s other hand. Phil smiles at him and gives his fingers a warm squeeze, and Missa giggles softly.

“No dreams, at least,” Phil tells him. 

“I’m glad,” Missa says earnestly. He’s glad to hear Phil’s doing okay– as okay as he can be, but like he said, purgatory is getting to some of the others. Missa knows what he means. He’s seen the looks in some of their eyes, the way people are quicker to snap. With Phil, it seems impossible that it could happen, but he’s heard shouting across the hills and felt the blade of a sword too many times now to deny it. 

“I think they want an excuse to go a little crazy,” Phil tells him and Missa laughs again. “Like, this is some fucked up social experiment and we all just went yeah, sure, why not?”

“You guys were so weird,” Missa says and Phil laughs with him now, both of them giggling. “Like, man, we were just trying to do stuff and failing and you guys were shouting in the distance–”

Both of them are laughing together now, and Missa basks in it. He missed Phil, so fucking much. He’s nervous here, but happy too, happy Phil is with him and smiling. Phil looks at him and opens his mouth as if he’s going to say something back, then pauses. Lets go of one of Missa’s hands and turns slightly, peering out into the trees. Missa makes a face at him, looking out in the same direction, but then Phil is nudging him backward and behind one of the bigger trees with wide eyes and a small smile still on his face.

“What?” Missa asks, dropping his voice into a whisper. “Philza, what–”

“Shh.” Phil presses him up against the tree and Missa lets him, lets the hand clamp over his mouth as Phil looks over his shoulder. This is ridiculous, Missa thinks to himself, and he can’t help the giggling bubbling up within him. His laughter is stifled thanks to Phil’s hand, and Phil is also still grinning, biting his lip as they stand there in the shade. It takes a second for Missa to register what Phil heard– footsteps in the leaves, voices. Fit, by the sound of it, and Etoiles. Now Missa gets it; those two have been on more than a few killing sprees, and who knows what’d they say if they came upon Phil and Missa out here. Missa holds his breath, staring hard in the direction of the sound, and while Phil seems insistent they stay quiet he doesn’t seem too frightened. After a few moments the sounds of their footsteps fade, and Missa is left staring down at Phil instead, who slowly pulls his hand away from Missa’s mouth.

Once he thinks it’s safe, Missa whispers, “So are you and– you know. Are you?”

“Etoiles?” Phil asks, and Missa blinks, then shakes his head. “Oh, Fit? Nah, it’s just fun. He’s gone fucking bonkers since we’ve gotten here, though.”

“I think we all have,” Missa says, giggling nervously. 

“Did it make you jealous? Before?” 

“No,” Missa says, and he’s honest about it. He also… kinda gets it. You just have to look at Fit to understand, honestly. “You come back to me anyway.”

Phil looks at him then, the smile dropping from his lips. He stares, something open and honest and brutal on his face at Missa, as though he’s just had a realization. Missa’s about to open his mouth and ask what it is, what’s the matter– but before he can, Phil surges up onto his feet and pushes his mask away from his face, kissing him harshly on the mouth as he slings an arm around Missa’s shoulders.

They’ve kissed before, but never like this. It’s always been on hands and shoulders and foreheads, soft intimate presses of closed mouths as reassurance and comfort. This is more. This is open lips, warm mouth, noses pressed uncomfortably together. This feels like desperation mixed with anguish, and Phil presses Missa harder against the trunk of the tree and Missa grabs at his waist with both hands and kisses back.

“I wish we were on the same team,” Phil tells him, pulling back a half inch and leaving Missa gasping for air. He feels like he’s on fire, all of Phil’s wild nature igniting him at once, leaving him to boil over. Red and blue– Missa feels the distance now more than anything. 

“We could make our own team,” Missa says, dragging him closer, trying to drown himself in Phil. “Maybe.”

Phil doesn’t bother responding to him; just kisses him again. Missa is going crazy, he thinks. Maybe it’s the place– purgatory sending them all spiraling into their own little wells of madness. There’s something about Philza here that makes this feel dangerous, like at any moment someone might pop around the corner of a tree and yell GOTCHA at the two of them. It’s– well, they’re husbands, everyone had pretty much assumed they were doing this anyway, but something about that thought makes Missa squirm a little, which makes Phil press him harder into the tree, which makes Missa duck his head and kiss him back even more. 

They do that for a while, kissing back and forth until Missa’s lips feel swollen and tender. At some point his knees go out, and they both sink to the forest floor. Phil’s in his lap, Missa can’t feel his toes or his lips, and yet he still wants more, somehow.

“Man,” Phil says between kisses, words punctuated by his face against Missa’s. “What the fuck did they put in the water?”

“I like it,” Missa says. He feels loopy, out of it. Maybe there was something in the water. Nothing feels real. He never wants it to end.

Phil laughs at him, pulling back from the kissing to grin at Missa lazily, nonchalant, like they do this every damn day. If Missa wasn’t already on the ground, he thinks he’d collapse. Phil tucks his warm nose into the crook of his neck and they sit there. The sticks and leaves press uncomfortably into Missa’s back and ass, but he doesn’t care. Phil is heavy on his lap, arms tight around his shoulders, and Missa holds him like he wants to every day. 

Selfishly, Missa thinks maybe purgatory is a good thing. Ignoring the death, and the dehydration, and the sun and the apples and the betrayals– he at least gets this out of it. He’s a selfish man. He’ll admit that much.

“Do you think we’ll get the eggs back?” Phil asks quietly. Missa plays with the loose strands of his hand, twirling them in between his fingers, alternating between that and running his hand down the long line of Phil’s spine. Tracing the bumps of his bound wings beneath his jacket.

“I don’t know,” Missa says honestly. 

“It feels like a trick,” Phil says, turning his head. Missa can’t see his face, but Phil’s gaze is directed outwards, towards where Missa knows the sea is. “All of this.”

“Yeah.” Missa can at least agree with that. It does feel like a trick. It makes him uncomfortable. “I’m still useless here, though.”

“Are you kidding me?” Phil turns his head to look up at Missa now, eyebrows furrowed. “Dude, you and your team have been doing better than us. That’s crazy.”

“Still,” Missa says. “It’s mostly Bad Boy Halo.”

“Bruh, BBH is just cracked. Don’t base your worth off of him.” Phil snuggles closer into Missa’s chest, and on impulse Missa leans down. Phil tips his head up and kisses him back with gentle care, and Missa’s heart rate soars. 

“I love you,” Missa says into the kiss.

“I know,” Phil murmurs back into his lips. Missa snorts.

“You nerdy motherfuck,” he says, and Phil laughs, kissing Missa again, and again. “Star Wars?”

“Would you rather me just say it back?” Phil asks, and Missa stops, lips hovering a breath above Phil’s. For a moment neither of them move, and then Missa draws away, inhaling slightly.

“Would it be hard for you to?” he asks. Phil looks at him, eyes suddenly guarded, and then away. The uncomfortable shift makes Missa feel as though a bucket of cold water has been doused on him, trickling down his spine.

“If I say it, it makes shit real,” Phil says.

“And?” Missa demands. “Is me being real a bad thing?”

“No, no, I just–” Phil’s face contorts. “Missa, if it’s real, it means losing you becomes real too.”

“So you just avoid it,” Missa says, and slowly, things click into place. And it doesn’t make sense even then, it just makes him feel… angry. He hasn’t ever felt angry at Phil before, but here they are. His hands tighten around Phil, fingers catching in the rough cloth of his jacket. “Don’t you ever think it’s real for me?”

“I know it’s real for you,” Phil says, and he sounds more cautious now, like he’s seen Missa’s anger. “Missa–”

“No, no no no, Philza,” Missa says, and now he draws his hands back and away, staring at Phil’s conflicted face. “You can’t handle it, sure that’s fine, yeah. But that’s just not fair.”

Phil’s eyes flash. “You can’t force me to say shit.”

“And I’m not!” Missa scowls a little. “I’m just thinking, if I’m such a coward and I’m able to face the fact I love you and you can’t, what does that say about you–”

“Wow.” Phil pushes up and off him, untangling their limbs messily and staggering back onto his feet. Missa hurries to stand up, brushing off his knees as he does and leaning against the tree for support. “Wow, low fucking blow.”

“Says the one who won’t even say he loves me back,” Missa says, and it’s weird how the affection he’d been feeling only seconds ago can fade into animosity so quickly. Maybe Phil was right. Maybe it’s this place. “We split on to teams and yet you only come find me when you, what? Want comfort? Want a kiss?”

“Maybe I just like hanging out with you,” Phil says.

“I wouldn’t know, you never fucking say it,” Missa snaps.

Phil glares at him, raising a hand and wiping the back of it against his lips. Missa drags his skeleton mask back over his face. “Maybe it’s a good thing we’re on separate teams,” Phil says, voice cold. “You always needed your space.”

“Now who’s throwing low blows?” Missa says. The mask serves a few purposes– to match Phil’s energy for one, and two, to hide the way his eyes start to well up with tears. He’s always been a crybaby, but this hurts. It really, truly hurts. At least when they start to stream down his cheeks, they’re hidden behind the comfort of his mask. “Maybe you don’t love me. Maybe that’s why you won’t say it. Just break my heart already, get it over with.”

“Break your heart?” Phil laughs, shifting his stance to something more solid, feet spread apart in the leaves and hands balled into fists at his sides. Missa catches the warning before the actual fire gets spit– the words like venom lashing out across the forest. “Like you broke Chayanne’s?”

Missa can barely see when his hands hit Phil’s shoulders, shoving him backwards on uneven footsteps. “Get away,” he says, then he’s shouting, “Get away, get away, get away from me!”

The heartbreak, it turns out, is very much real in this place. Purgatory, the place between worlds, an eternal waiting room. There’s no going forward here, not unless you play the right cards. Missa’s face feels red and hot and he says nothing as Phil turns on his heel and walks away, not even bothering to look back. He waits until he’s sure Phil’s gone before he crumples to the ground and cries, whimpering into his hands like a baby because he’s gone and ruined everything now, hasn’t he?

But there is an itch at the back of his brain.

Maybe you did the right thing, the itch tells him, gentle hands on his shoulders and fingers petting through his hair. Maybe it’s for the best. You’re on separate teams, after all, and it couldn’t work. Stay away for the next few weeks, give each other space. Run away and let it all smooth over– he’ll forgive you, after all. He always has.

Missa wipes his eyes dry. Gets to his feet again, and looks in the direction Phil left. Maybe his subconscious is right. Maybe it’s just a waiting game. They can be angry at each other here, fight here, kill here, and when they get back to the island it can all go back to normal.

It’s just the stress, Missa tells himself, thinking of their son as he turns back towards the blue team base camp. There are things to do now, fights to be won, challenges to work on. He can think about Phil later. A small fight between couples never killed anyone.

…Right?

[myfairkatiecat]

Thinking about getting into kotlc. What specifically do you like and find recommendable about it?

Keeper of the Lost Cities is my all time favorite book series. It's not the objectively best story I've ever read, but it's my favorite. Here are a few reasons you should ABSOLUTELY read KOTLC:

Fantastic adoption plot. The process of Grady and Edaline adopting Sophie and the complicated way Sophie grows to see them as parental figures, the ups and downs, the way it takes years for her to decide to adress one of them as mom or dad, the way those moments are portrayed as special... it really clicks, especially as someone from a foster family.

The main character is super realistic and well developed. She undergoes a lot of non-linear character development. She has strong beliefs that sometimes conflict with what she's expected to stand for. Her journey from book one to book nine with how she learns to be a leader, stand up for herself, and do what she thinks is right all the time is super well portrayed.

The characters and their relationships are very well developed and complex. Yes, certain things are made very clear through the narration because Shannon is in fact writing for kids, but after books one and two a lot of the kids series feel vanishes almost entirely. I mean, no, it's still charming and silly most of the time, but it doesn't feel as young, especially as the characters grow older and a lot of darker and more complicated issues begin to arise.

The portrayal of the dystopia is fascinating. KOTLC is not in the dystopian genre for a reason. The Lost Cities are not presented as a dystopia at all. That just... comes out slowly. Sophie goes there and is told that everything about the world is perfect, and since everything is sparkling and glittering, it must be, right? She has a few early thoughts about how certain things seem wrong, and those thoughts continue to grow as the problems with the Lost cities become clearer and clearer. Their government and social systems are very messed up, and Sophie only sees the surface of it because she's usually interacting with the nobility, but the reason for both rebellions formed is fixing those exact societal issues.

The good guys and bad guys want a lot of the same things. There's a focus in KOTLC on doing the right thing, not just achieving the right goal. Which sometimes means characters mess that up! (cough keefe sencen cough) But again, all this stuff is explored in a super accessible way, because it's a middle grade series. It feels like reading something deeply interesting with good messages without having to take a lot of time to wrap your head around what those messages are.

The characters are incredibly well-developed. Their backgrounds and history explain most of their personality and actions in amazing ways. I'm thinking specifically of Sophie, Keefe, Tam, Linh, Fitz, and Dex right now, but I'm sure there are more examples (and I hope it gets explored more with Marella in the future, tbh. We know about her childhood--how does that impact her personality?) It makes it very interesting to rotate these elves around in your head.

There are multi-book arcs, many huge reveals are foreshadowed from the beginning. The books open lots and lots of mystery boxes--there are tons of questions being asked ALWAYS--but in the end, they get answered (some more satisfying than others), really portraying just how much can happen even in a short time frame for these kids. Honestly, the whole three-years-over-nine-books thing feels PERFECT to me. Unlike Harry Potter, each book isn't a school year. Unlike Percy Jackson, each book isn't a summer vacation. All of these things happen one after the other, saturating the characters lives, and I think it's very interesting.

The adults have some crazy lore going on. It's pretty fun to try to piece all of that stuff together because Sophie doesn't take a lot of interest in it.

Everything about KOTLC is interesting to me. I'm not going to say there's no issues with it ever (please followers do not come in my ask box and start telling me there are issues with KOTLC idk why it's so controversial to say that Shannon did a really good job with character and plot complexity) but I hugely recommend giving it a read. Let me know if you read it and what you think!

[wishjacked]

Happy #WebcomicDay!! :D

This year we're celebrating the process of making pages... so below the cut I've got a bunch of pictures sharing how I go about making pages of my evil post-apocalyptic workplace sitcom, Cargo!! :D

So! My process!!

Writing-> I think sometimes there's pressure to "write" your comic a certain way, I see people talking about script format and stuff a lot. That really doesn't work for me, though! I write my "first draft" script in short scenes on scrap paper, in whatever order they come to me. Sometimes a scene will just be one or two lines, and then a little description of what I want to happen in the rest of the scene.

Later I type the scene up, and write the "connective tissue" that fits between the disjointed scenes so they all flow together like they ought. I don't do page breaks or even character tag or action notes hahahaha I like it to be as BASIC as POSSIBLE so it's easy to edit. And since I'm the person drawing it I can almost always remember who's supposed to be saying what lmao

I edit a lot, but the most major editing is also probably the last bit... when I letter my pages usually I realize "they would never say that" and so I end up rephrasing everything. My art brain is sometimes waaaaay better at phrasing hahaha. Like you can see in the finished page for this script I rewrote like basically all of it, and actually went back to the original "sketch" script in a lot of places.

Thumbnailing-> my thumbs are really big, I draw them with markers on printer paper and keep them in a binder!! I like to thumb scenes in batches and I also usually write my dialogue on them, just so I can read through them before (and while) I draw to get a feel for how the pacing works. :)

Sketching-> OH sketching is also really hard for me! I don't have a good visual imagination so it's really important for me to make sure I have good references. Last year I was especially focusing on setting.

My comic is set in Florida. I'm lucky in that I used to live there and still go back to visit sometimes, so sometimes I can gather my own reference images! But more often I start on Google Maps or Zillow, trying to find buildings that have interesting features or the right kind of "look" for what I want. I'll also look up other interesting elements, my comic is set in a post-apocalypse and I'll research home gardening and things like that which people would probably have.

For example, in this set in chapter 7, I used Google Maps images, photo references of indoor hydroponic gardening, and like, 90's-00's hacker computer setups haha. Also my BFF Roomstyler.com, where you can make 3d house interiors haha!!

Lineart-> I LOVE lineart it is my favorite!!!! I sketch and ink two pages at a time, and it usually takes somewhere between 10-12 hours to do both steps.

I actually think my art looks best when it's just lineart... but I think my STORY is better with color, like it makes it clearer and easier to read and it has a better atmosphere HAHA.

Colors-> I think it usually takes me 4-6 hours to do 2 pages (I haven't timed myself as consistently as I time my lineart and sketching). I have a big file with small copies of my previous pages that I color drop from, and my characters are all flats only. The limited palette that I use is also really handy, it streamlines coloring a LOT.

Finishing Touches-> aka I steal mercilessly from my one true love, my internet home, the beautiful and blessed Wikimedia Commons

I put lots of overlay layers on my art! I like textures so having some strange little textures or pictures on things makes my art feel a lot more finished to me.

And finally my very most favorite ✨finishing touch✨ is the bright colored/patterned gutters that I use. Here are some of my favorites that I've made and used in the past!

And that's all!! I hope you guys have a very happy Webcomics Day and find lots and lots of wonderful new things to read!!!

[humbledragon669]

Season 1 Opening and Closing Credits

This write up will likely end up feeling a bit scatty, partly because there are a lot of different bits and pieces to cover, but also because that opening credits scene is, to be quite honest, a little bit frantic. There’s a lot of stuff going on in there, despite the fact that it’s less than a minute and a half long. I’m intending on covering all of the opening credits scene here, so to make things a bit easier to digest, I broke it down into what I’m calling tableaus. The intent is to describe what we can physically see happening in each tableau before offering any observations on them in turn – it was the only way I could really see to break it all down. Lastly, there’ll be a quick summary of the music for each of the end credit scenes. Hopefully that all makes sense, and gives the opportunity to decide you’re not all that interested in the upcoming content before you get too far into the weeds with me.

Opening Credits

Before I get going with tableau #1, I thought I might offer a suggestion as to what I think the story is that we’re being told by the animation that takes place throughout the credits. From what I could gather, it appears to be telling the story of the consequences of Armageddon actually taking place. I hope that story arc will become a little clearer as we progress through each of the tableaus.

There’s one other thing I want to address before getting into the nitty gritty, and it won’t surprise you that it’s to do with the music. Something I noticed very early on in my GO-related brainrot journey is that the theme tune is written in ¾ time. That along with its very characteristic bass line accompaniment would qualify it as a waltz, which were predominantly used as courtship dances. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the music we come to associate with this show is representative of a genre of music that was banned in some places because it was considered to be sinful. Subtext on multiple levels there methinks.

Side note: the original theme tune for the series was intended to be Buddy Holly’s “Everyday”, but when David Arnold presented the piece that he’d composed as a potential replacement to Neil, it was love at first hearing. It’s lovely that we got to keep the Buddy Holly song in the show in season two, as it was apparently something that Terry was keen about having as a theme running throughout the whole of season one.

Tableau #1

Crowley and Aziraphale (with Crowley in the lead) are walking through the darkness.

Camera pans out to show a barren landscape.

Straight from the off, we see Crowley and Aziraphale together, very much like in the show itself. The animation leaves us in no doubt that these two characters are meant to be seen as a partnership. It’s noticeable that the ground they’re walking on is curved, which would suggest it’s Earth they’re walking across, and I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that the barren landscape gives the impression that the two of them are striking off into the wilderness together. If we tie that into the timeline and story, this scene feels like this is a representation of the two of them as they leave the Garden of Eden.

Tableau #2

Crowley and Aziraphale have been joined by a small procession of two hooded figures and a small demonic-looking being.

The landscape in the background has more landmarks – rocks and bare trees.

The camera has adopted a closer position to the beings in view.

A warped tree grows as Crowley and Aziraphale pass a particular point in the scene. An apple springs from it.

The small demonic-looking being runs ahead of the hooded figures and picks the apple from the tree. He carries it out of the tableau.

The vegetation in the background grows more luscious as the scene moves into the next tableau.

The only observations I have about this tableau are unfortunately more like questions. First off, I don’t think I could say who/what any of the procession members are here:

Those hooded figures could literally be absolutely anything. And WHAT is that little thing at the back? It has a mohawk and sunglasses. I can’t recall any characters in the show that would fit that description. And why does he pick the apple and carry it away?

It’s almost like he’s trying to get Crowley or Aziraphale to take it (perhaps trying to tempt them with it?), but I don’t know why that would be.

Tableau #3

Foliage now thick, like a rainforest.

Flowers spring up from the ground as Crowley and Aziraphale walk into the tableau.

The procession has expanded with the addition of a bearded man, a nun, a different small being, and a priest.

There is a large cherub statue in the background.

A butterfly lands on the vicar’s hand, before flying across the shot.

The flowers springing from the ground is the second instance of foliage growing where Aziraphale and Crowley pass over, and it makes me wonder if the growth is either inspired or commanded by their presence. The apple has now disappeared from the tableau, but we have no indication of where it went, especially since the demonic-looking being that was carrying it has either changed or transformed into a completely different small being, one that looks an awful lot like Shax!

I realise this could be a representation of Madame Tracy, but there’s something about the sunglasses that makes me feel that’s not right.

Knowing that nothing ever makes it into this show by accident, I find myself wondering if the butterfly in this scene has been put there to suggest transformation.

We certainly know by the end of the season that both Aziraphale and Crowley go through actual physical transformations in the body swap, but the personal growth of many of the characters throughout the show forms a very important theme in the story too. And speaking of transformations, the device used to “transform” us from this tableau to the next is a large statue, which appears to be the back of the same one we can see in the background, or at least an identical one.

Tableau #4

Crowley and Aziraphale are sharing a glass of red wine whilst seated at a table.

The cherub statue from the previous tableau is still present in the background. Our point of view appears to be revolving around it.

The table is in front of a phone box.

The Bentley is seen in front of the bookshop.

There is a fire blazing in the upstairs window of the bookshop.

The instantly noticeable difference between this tableau and the ones that came before is that Crowley and Aziraphale are no longer marching as part/the head of the procession. In fact, it looks like they’re sitting at a table in a very lovely garden, what with the shady tree and the verdant grass in the forefront of the shot. What’s more, we can see the procession relentlessly marching away over a hill in the background. This tableau suggests to me that we’re at the point in the storyline where our hero pair have subconsciously abandoned their Heavenly and Hellish duties, happily settled in their own side, and with that in mind, I would say that this tableau represents the “present day” of this season as a snapshot in time. The flames in the upper floor window of the book shop are of course foreshadowing of what’s to come, and I do find it interesting that it’s there at all, major spoiler as it is, but it’s pretty fleeting as with the collage device used in episode 6, so perhaps the hope is that its presence won’t register with most audience members.

Tableau #5

An ark is resting on a building in the background.

The procession has had a few additions:

A brass band.

A hooded figure on a horse holding a scythe – Death.

A man in a top hat.

The alien being from episode 4.

A duck.

Something that looks like a rat.

A nun.

A second bearded man.

The procession is watched over by a demon (looks like Usher, the small demon that was used to test the holy water in episode 6).

Towards the end of the tableau, the procession starts to proceed up an escalator.

From certain angles, the building that the ark is resting on (or has crashed into) looks a little like the building that hosts the entrances to Heaven and Hell, though quite why this would have happened, I’m not sure.

There’s a change in the music in this tableau too, to what I will describe from this point on as theme #2. It’s probably most recognisable as being the tune to the lullaby that Aziraphale sings to Adam, although it is used throughout the season for a multitude of other scenarios. Interestingly, the change in tone in the music isn’t accompanied by a change in tone in the animation.

We see the first appearance of one of the four Horsemen in this tableau. In a sort of round-about-face way, the first we see in the opening credits is the last we meet in the storyline, the last to be called, and the last to be dismissed on the tarmac in Tadfield. I do like that Death has been put on a horse in this setting, making him a literal horseman as well as a metaphorical one.

This is the first tableau that Aziraphale and Crowley are nowhere to be seen in. If my theory about the story being told is correct, perhaps this is to show events continuing without their awareness, but I feel like that’s a bit of a stretch.

Tableau 6

Procession now proceeds along a moving walkway.

Additions to procession membership:

Weird tall being that looks like a bear.

Something that looks like it might be from Atlantis?

A short being of human appearance.

Small being carrying an “END IS NIGH” placard.

Somebody in a hazmat suit.

Something wearing some sort of face mask.

An additional dark figure on horseback – Famine.

Another unidentifiable short being.

The short demonic-looking being from the procession in tableau #2.

The backdrop now is of a night sky containing nebulae and galaxies.

Crowley arrives from the left and hovers over the procession.

The UFO from episode 4 appears and collides with Crowley, who is thrown of course. The UFO, now smoking, begins a descent into what will likely end in a crash.

I don’t have an awful lot to say about this tableau, other than it being the first time we see Crowley or Aziraphale without the other. It’s also the first time we see the transition into the next tableau being led by movement downwards, instead of from left to right.

Tableau #7

UFO crashes through a layer of cloud to reveal a descending escalator carrying, what appears to be, a procession consisting of a different set of people.

Aziraphale is hovering above the escalator and observing the descending procession.

Aziraphale deliberately flies into the UFO, causing it to explode into a shower of fish.

A single being can be seen ascending the escalator, against the flow of the procession.

It was at this point that I realised that if the escalators were supposed to represent the entrances to Heaven and Hell, with the beings on them going to their final place of rest, Aziraphale and Crowley were in the wrong places. You’d expect the angel to be watching the beings on their ascent to Heaven, wouldn’t you? So I actually think this might be a representation of the start of the war between Heaven and Hell, with forces from Hell ascending (perhaps invading?) Heaven, and vice versa. The presence of Crowley watching over, or perhaps feigning participation, would be more fitting in this case.

Unfortunately, the procession on the descending escalator is too far from the camera POV to make out individual members. The being going up the escalator instead of down is the mysterious little Shax-lookalike we saw introduced in tableau #3.

I’d quite like to know a) how that being got there and b) why they’re going against the flow of traffic. Perhaps they’re just late to the invasion of Heaven.

The shower of fish is a nice little callback to something that was used as a device on more than one occasion in the book, and was even intended to be used for the show in the original script but was unfortunately cut. It’s good to see it as a little Easter egg here in the credits.

Tableau #8

Backdrop is now of a wood or forest. The remainder of the shower of fish can be seen falling through the trees and into water.

Aziraphale and Crowley are now together again, with Crowley leading the way.

A military ship comes into view. It holds a lot of passengers, and definitely has members of the first procession on it. There is now a white figure on horseback present – Pollution.

The camera POV pans under water to provide the next transition.

It’s unclear whether the passengers on the ship are of members of both of the processions we’ve seen (mostly because the only shot we’ve seen of the second procession was too far away from the camera to make out distinct characters), but they seem to be mostly from the first procession. It’s also unclear as to whether Crowley and Aziraphale are simply observing the ship and its passengers, pursuing it, or even trying to overtake it.

Tableau #9

Backdrop is now of an ocean floor, complete with a kelp forest.

Crowley and Aziraphale are hovering over the procession in the same formation as the previous tableau (with Crowley in the lead).

The procession is now very large, with many members carrying placards and signs.

The kraken appears in the background, watching over the procession.

The procession starts an ascent up a hill, leading into a destroyed cityscape in the background.

Crowley and Aziraphale deliberately exit this tableau, accelerating out of shot.

The camera point of view focuses in on the head of the procession.

There is now a red-headed figure on horseback present – War.

The procession is now being lead by the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.

There are some objects that we can see floating through the ocean during this tableau.

They look quite like plastic bags to me, so I wonder if this has been put here as a social commentary of the seemingly incessant need for humans to pollute the oceans. I think this tableau, with all four horsemen leading the procession, is representative of Armageddon having actually occurred, with the procession consisting of beings who are all now marching forward to be judged. Interestingly War was the last of the Horsemen to join the procession but the first that we are introduced to in the show, and the first that would be called upon in a nuclear holocaust situation.

Tableau #10

Backdrop is now of a destroyed cityscape.

The Horsemen of the Apocalypse are now at the rear of the procession.

Madame Tracy and Shadwell ride Madame Tracy’s scooter across the tableau, in front of the procession.

Aziraphale can be seen observing the procession from the top of a road sign signalling the M25.

The repositioning of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse suggests that their roles have shifted from leading the procession to ushering its members. This makes sense, given the backdrop of this tableau suggests that Armageddon has happened by this point.

Tableau #11

The procession continues up a rock bridge.

Backdrop has become a stereotypically “Hellish” landscape.

We can see the back of Aziraphale and the road sign he sits on as we pan into this tableau.

Crowley is floating above the procession, apparently observing.

The Shax lookalike demon can be seen running against the flow of traffic at this point.

The procession is being watched over by hellhounds (one in the background, an additional one in the extreme foreground).

We can see parts of the rock bridge crumbling under the weight of all of the beings in the procession, which brings my attention to the fact that there have been sound effects added to the soundtrack for certain things – these crumbling rocks, the flutter of wings, the pop of the UFO as it explodes into a shower of fish, and the roaring of the hellhound as the camera passes by. It adds to the impression that this isn’t just a credit sequence needed for logistical purposes, but that it is telling a story in its own right. It’s also possible to see that the procession participants not only look distinct, but have different walking styles too. It’s a tiny detail that would go amiss by so many, yet would have taken a lot of effort to implement. There hasn’t been anywhere for me to give credit to the animators in my write ups prior to now, so this is their chapeau – well done all, little things like that really add to the richness of this show.

Tableau #12

We see a view of the end of rock bridge and a bright white light in the sky.

The supporting pillars crumble as the camera approaches the end of the bridge.

I don’t have a lot to say about this tableau, partly because it’s very short but also because it has the least amount of content to it. As the penultimate tableau in the credit sequence, it’s the only one that takes place from the point of view of the procession.

Tableau #13

Point of view returns to a side view of the procession.

We see the front of the procession approaching the end of the rock bridge.

The Shaz lookalike can be seen, once again, running against the flow of traffic, away from the end of the bridge.

The camera perspective changes as it passes the bridge’s supporting pillar. It’s now further away and the light in the tableau is much stronger.

Members of the procession start to fall off the end of the bridge, some gaining wings and flying upwards, others falling straight down.

The camera pans out to show the title card for the show whilst procession members continue to march off the end of the rock bridge in the background.

That weird little Shax lookalike is busy running away in this shot, not once but twice. Once before the camera pans across the bridge’s supporting pillars:

And again, right after:

There seems to be a bit of a continuity error here, as those two gifs lead literally one into the other. What I really want to know though, is who or what that being really is, what its purpose is and why is it almost always travelling in the opposite direction to the rest of the procession.

And so we come to the end of the road (quite literally) for the procession. We can see the outcome of the judgement for each of them as they either ascend to Heaven or fall into Hell. Strangely, Crowley and Aziraphale aren’t present to see any of this – it makes me wonder if they’ve decided to flee to Alpha Centauri after all, seeing as in this series of tableaus it looks like they failed to avert the end of the World. Perhaps the halo over the “O” and the little devil tail on the “M” of the Good Omens title card is meant as a representation of their presence, albeit transformed somewhat.

End credits

Episode 1 end credits

Description: “The Theme That Got Left in the Car”. Queen-style symphonic rock of theme #1 from the Opening Title music.

Notes: links to the episode through the introduction of Queen as the music mascot for the show and its general feeling of impending doom. It’s orchestration also sets the scene for the epic nature of the show. One a personal note, and I know I’ve mentioned this before, this is HANDS DOWN my favourite piece of music in the entire season. I love absolutely everything about it – the wailing guitar, the operatic piano, everything about is JUST AWESOME.

Episode 2 end credits

Description: string quartet fugue-style of the Opening Title music. Has an extended theme #2 section and a variation on this theme before the return to theme #1. Not included on the OST album.

Notes: this version of the end credits theme offers an incredible contrast from the thickly layered version from episode 1. Its tone brings to mind an Austen-style ball, and although that would link beautifully with some of the concepts in season 2, I struggle to find how it connects with the episode content here. It’s beautifully crafted nonetheless.

Episode 3 end credits

Description: 60s instrumental style setting of theme #1, complete with Hammond organ and hand claps. Has an exploratory middle section and a distinct “Tarantino” feel. Not included on the OST album.

Notes: links to the episode through the 1967 flashback scene. There was, of course, a whole host of historic periods David Arnold could have chosen to use as the theming for this particular instance. Perhaps this was just the most fun to write.

Episode 4 end credits

Description: sounds like circus music! May use a calliope, or uses instrumentation to achieve that type of sound. Encompasses the entirety of the Opening Title music and includes a key change in the theme #2 section (the only end credits music that does). Not on the OST album.

Notes: I would argue that this piece offers the most obvious representation of the characteristics of a waltz, despite its very different instrumental setting. As with the episode 2 tune, I struggle to find the link to the dark episode content with this version, which is cheerful to the point of insanity.

Episode 5 end credits

Description: pipe organ fugue. There is a choir that joins to punctuate the phrasing towards the end. There is no other instrumentation. Not on the OST album.

Notes: I was told by the head of department when I was doing my music degree that the most evil instrument in all music was the pipe organ. He argued that if you ever ask somebody to think of “evil music” they will instantly summon the sound of a pipe organ, most likely the first movement of Bach’s Toccata and Fugue in D Minor, which I think this piece is heavily influenced by. It links beautifully with the cliffhanger of impending Armageddon at the end of the episode.

Episode 6 end credits

Description: “A Nightingale Sang In Berkeley Square” by Tori Amos. ‘Nuff said.

End credits general notes

The breadth of styles encompassed in the 5 different treatments of the Opening Titles music is, to be frank, astonishing. Each one is entirely convincing as an example of the style its written in, which really just goes to show, at least as far as I’m concerned, that David Arnold is nothing short of a genius. It’s really unfortunate that only one of these can be found on the OST album - I can only assume that this is due to a need to keep the album to a certain length. Honestly, I feel like each one deserves its own full musical critical analysis, but it does not appear that the score is available.

And there we have it. I said it might be a bit scatty, didn’t I?! Also long. Sorry about that, I didn’t think it would take as long as it did to analyse one and a half minutes of opening credits! As ever, questions, comments, discussion: always welcome. See you next time 😊

[badlydrawnbabydirk]

Are we allowed to ask system questions?? Don’t feel pressured to of course but I want to know if you have like- advice, for someone who is trying to figure that kind of stuff out, especially for someone who does not have a lot of support around them to help figure it out?? Hope you’re having a good day at least!!

\\ gonna answer this outside the qna— i cant say that id be great at advice but sure!

my discovery was very recent, so the best i can give you is just what i went through,, i just kinda took notice of weird happenings (saying/thinking stuff that didnt sound like me, gaps in memory, weird things that happened in the past, etc.) and was like.. hm. i never thought i was plural, thought it was just my undiagnosed adhd and identity issues,, but when i brought it to other people who were plural they were like hmm yeah thats what we went thru and i was like. whart. huh.

still wasn’t completely sold though obviously, its weird and distressing at first, thinking that maybe it isnt just you around— that there could be several people, and people who could have been around for years and you just never knew. its crazy what your brain does to prevent you from seeing and realizing it. but i was like okay whatever lets give this a shot, gonna ignore how weird it feels, and i leaned into it. made pluralkit profiles for who i had a hunch was around, used them whenever i would have those weird episodes, or when others would notice, and it felt right. i cant really describe it besides something genuinely clicked in my brain. i fucking felt it, it was crazy.

eventually it became more obvious that this wasnt just,, me yk. it gets confusing when you dont have super strong amnesia like me, but eventually the line between you and the others gets clearer and clearer. like ive said before, your brain had spent so long convincing you that youre just one person that its hard to untangle it. things will feel wrong, or like youre faking it, but you just gotta give it time. everything makes so much sense to me now, and it just feels so right now, like i finally realized this piece of me that had been missing!!

hopefully you can pull some good stuff out of my experience, but if i had any specific advice to give, itd be to just take it slow! things probably wont come to you immediately, it slowly unravels like i said. its like,, looking into a keyhole at first, and thinking that thats all youll ever see! but eventually the door swings open and you realize and discover so much more! i started out only noticing when others were around cause of how id type, and now i can feel them and even see them in my minds eye(? headspace basically.) so just give it time, be patient with yourself, and be kind to yourself. youll wanna doubt yourself, youll wanna think youre faking it, (its kinda a collective experience from what ive seen), but just remember— no one goes through this much to fake something. if it feels real to you, you should look into it and experiment! and if it doesnt turn out you're plural/a system, there was no harm in playing around with the idea, and you learned something about yourself at the end of the day!! hope this helps <33

[keezybees]

Hi! I follow you across social media and I really love your art and am super looking forward to reading Hello Sunshine! I wanted to reach out because I'm also Bipolar and I really appreciate the work you do to spread awareness about it but there's something that I find kind of harmful in how you talk about it, and it's just the insistance that it absolutely can't be treated through non-medical means. I fully understand that meds are life-saving and that depending on the severity of symptoms, length, and frequency of episodes, going without medication can be lethal. However, as someone with Bipolar I but controlled symptoms (and frankly symptoms that seem a lot less disruptive than yours, I'm sorry), hearing that there's no path forward without medication would easily have triggered suicidal thoughts when I was younger. There are a lot of reasons why people can't be medicated (for me it was a combination of family control and financial struggle), but hearing at your lowest that there's no way forward without something that you can't have is really damaging. I think it's totally possible to stress the importance of medical access and the need to work with your medical provider without erasing the ways that non-medical treatments can also be life-saving, depending on a person's situation/symptoms/etc and that some people can live full lives even if their symptoms aren't fully controlled. Anyway, I love your work and I just wanted to raise this alternate perspective because I think you're helping a lot of people, but I also think a lot of people can be harmed by this rhetoric, especially marginalized people who can't seek medication for any number of factors beyond their control.

Hi Anon! I totally hear what you're saying, and so I just wanted to run through a few things to clarify my stance, both for you and for others who might be reading this (omg I am SO sorry this is so long though haha):

I do emphasize treatment a lot, because I think it's really important for people to work with professionals to find ways to manage their illness. This is partly due to my own experience (I avoided treatment for a looong time) and anecdotally, but also because the research we have is pretty clear--untreated bipolar has much, much worse outcomes for a vast majority of people. However! When I say treatment, I don't necessarily mean medication, and certainly not only medication! I absolutely think some people (though it is sadly rare) can find ways of managing their illness medication-free. I just feel that it's best to do this work with the help of professionals + peers (whether that's a psychiatrist, psychologist, therapist, social worker, support group, etc) who can help you find your way, and help you manage symptoms that do crop up (this is especially true if you're currently on medication and choosing to go off of it, since that can come with physical risks). I could definitely stand to make this distinction a lot clearer though, and I'll try to be more mindful of it in the future.

I also can definitely see how my words could imply that I think non-medication ways of treating bipolar aren't valuable, and I'll work on my phrasing going forward, because they absolutely are! My aim is not to dismiss stuff like self-help or lifestyle changes or meditation or exercise, because I think they're great--for example, that kind of stuff has helped a ton with my anxiety and overall quality of life, and I know for a lot of people they help with their bipolar symptoms. But for me, these things simply don't have much of an impact on the bipolar, and our culture's emphasis on them frustrates me because it prevented me from getting proper care for a very long time, and made me feel like a failure for not being able to control my symptoms despite working so hard. So I'll also try to be more clear in the future about whether I'm venting about my own situation vs speaking broadly.

I also definitely hope I've never said anything that implies that our symptoms are inevitably life-ruining! My symptoms aren't completely controlled (particularly my lows), either, and I like to think I live a pretty good life. I think for many people un-treated bipolar can be life-ruining, and I've just heard too many stories about people who thought they could manage on their own only to have an absolutely devastating manic episode to not warn people of the risk. But most of us will continue to experience some degree of symptoms throughout our lives, absolutely.

I totally understand why someone would want to go med-free, or at least try it, and I in no way think the medications we have now are flawless haha. Side effects are awful, life-changing, and can even be life-threatening (I've had some horrible experiences with side effects myself); the meds we have now aren't very effective against depressive episodes for a lot of people (myself included), and for some people they're not effective at all; meds for most people don't completely eradicate symptoms, etc. I'm fully on board with the med struggle, and I honestly spend a lot of time criticizing the options available to us, though less so publicly, since I don't want to further stigmatize the idea of taking psych meds in general!

One of the reasons I emphasize medication (when I do emphasize meds, specifically) is because when I was younger, I was terrified of even the idea of them. I avoided it for years and really, really suffered because of it. I think our culture does in general look down on psych meds, particularly the kind we usually take, so I'm trying to destigmatize the concept of them, and emphasize for people with similar fears that taking meds can be just as life-saving and healing as they are harmful and frustrating, and that it's at least worth trying.

I'm a YA cartoonist (and former teacher, barista at a youth coffeehouse, tutor, I worked for a kids' gaming website...actually all of my jobs apart from dishwashing have involved kids, now that I think of it lmao), so a lot of the time when I'm talking about this stuff on social media, my target audience is sort of...very young people and kids who think they have bipolar (or may have even been diagnosed) but are afraid to seek help and/or don't think they need help and/or don't think help is going to actually help. So my goal is to demystify and normalize the idea of taking meds and/or seeking treatment for those people, and to emphasize that just because they're able to manage their illness now, that might change in the future, and imo they need to be aware of the very real risks, which includes things like an incredibly high suicide rate for unmedicated individuals, and the reality that the illness can be progressive (episodes can get worse and harder to treat the more you have them--they certainly did for me, and I wish I had been more open to the idea much earlier).

On a similar note, it's also important to recognize that a lot of things can look like bipolar, and a lot of people don't really know what bipolar actually looks like to begin with (particularly if you're getting your info from tiktok or similar). So if you've self-diagnosed and never explored treatment options (emphasis on options!) you can easily be missing stuff like thyroid issues, epilepsy, brain tumors, vitamin deficiencies, or a myriad of other treatable mental illnesses that mimic bipolar, and I strongly believe that people deserve care and help for whatever they're struggling with, including the possibility that it isn't bipolar at all!

Finally, I truly hope I've never said anything that comes off like I'm looking down on or judging people who choose to not be medicated for whatever reason! If it works for you then that's phenomenal (I'm jealous tbh) but it's honestly none of my business haha. When I talk about this stuff I do try to stress most people, because we're of course not a monolith, and when I say something like 'a majority of people with bipolar will need some form of medication to flourish' I don't mean to dismiss those who aren't in that majority. It's more that I want people to be open to the idea that they're not failures for needing meds, that they're actually in very good company, as well as to combat the 'just meditate! or try harder!' narrative that's so prevalent in our culture.

Edit: one last thought, which is that part of my target audience is also parents or guardians whose kids might be struggling--kids are obviously the group with the least access to treatment on their own terms. My hope is that talking about my experiences and discussing the risks will help motivate guardians to get help for their kids, and also help motivate kids to seek their own treatment as soon as they're able. Most people develop bipolar in their late teens and early 20s (though my first hypomanic ep was at 16), so it's a relatively small percentage of folks in this situation, but I do see how a kid whose parents aren't willing to help them could take my words badly, so I'll try to keep that in mind!

I'm definitely going to be more careful about how I phrase things going forward, because I can absolutely see how my intent could be lost. Hopefully this clears things up a bit (although it's also possible that we simply disagree, and I think that's okay too--like I said, our community is not a monolith, and a lot of these conversations are fundamentally ongoing)!

tldr; I'll make an effort to watch my words so that it's clear that my target audience really isn't my bipolar peers, and that the target of my criticisms is anti-medication wellness culture + psych med stigma, not the concept of non-medication alternatives or additions in general. And I'll try to do a better job of highlighting when I'm speaking only for myself vs our community as a whole!

[babyrdie]

Hi I'm back after a while without showing up in your askbox!! I saw this post and was wondering if perhaps you had any idea of Patroclus's feats and abilities in the sources in general? Not just The Iliad, but The Iliad + other sources!

Hi, no problem!

I'm going to list skills in general, not just the most obvious ones (i.e. warrior skills). Also, when I say the translation is "improvised" it's a euphemism for "I ran the Greek text through several different translators, looked up Greek dictionaries online when a word confused me, and looked to see if any academics mentioned it in a way that made the meaning clearer" and, therefore, it's not a 100% faithful translation but more like something that reflects the spirit of the thing. As you may notice, this process takes some time and in the end I can't even be 100% sure about what's being said, so that's why I'm going to ignore the fact that the name Patroclus is mentioned a considerable number of times in Homer scholia. There may be a lot of interesting stuff there, but since there's no point in me going through this time-consuming process every single time the name is mentioned, that's all we'll have for today. And I noticed that the OP of your print mentioned Diomedes, but since you only asked me about Patroclus, I'll focus on Patroclus. And finally, the usual disclaimer that this is just a hobby and I am not an academic of anything, so there may be mistakes!

Healing

Patroclus has knowledge of healing, as Achilles taught him what he learned from Chiron. This doesn’t make him the camp's "doctor", just someone who can be useful if needed. As the text itself mentions, Achilles also knows and, not only that, he was the one who taught Patroclus! And well, no one claims that Achilles is the camp's doctor. STILL I think it's fair to mention it because it's useful and I think it's kind of ridiculous to pretend the scene doesn't exist and I've seen people claim that Patroclus NEVER knew ANYTHING about healing, which is objectively false. There's no way to say that this is a useless skill, right? And what Achilles taught was what he learned from the wise Chiron, so it was certainly a good lesson. While Patroclus isn't really focused on healing, it's a good ability and I think it's unfair to dismiss it entirely.

”[…] And spread the soothing, healing salves across it, the powerful drugs they say you learned from Achilles and Chiron the most humane of Centaurs taught your friend. […]“

The Iliad, XI, 992-994. Translation by Robert Fagles.

I think in the Republic Plato talked about the sons of Asclepius and mentioned that Patroclus was in charge at the time, but I'm not sure if Plato was referring to Patroclus taking over as healer in the absence of the camp doctors (because it's been a while since I read that passage). Anyway, if this ability of Patroclus's was such an important characteristic of the character, I imagine it would be more commonly emphasized. There is also no iconographic context that associates Patroclus with healing that I have seen (I can be mistaken), the only one that shows him in a healing scene is the famous kylix in which Achilles is taking care of him. But well, the healer in this case is Achilles, not Patroclus. So I interpret this as him knowing enough to be useful to be needed, but he's no Machaon or Podalirius. I don't know if I explained it decently, I hope so. In any case, this doesn’t antagonize Patroclus's warlike abilities, since even Machaon fights and Achilles, who is canonically the best of warriors, is even more associated with healing than Patroclus.

Horses

He’s an excellent horseman, even capable of controlling the divine horses Xanthus and Balius. Even Automedon, who is Achilles' charioteer, seems to consider Patroclus to be better at this than he was. In other words, he was better at this than the guy whose main job was to do that.

Diores’ son Automedon shouted back, "Alcimedon! What other Achaean driver could match your skill at curbing this deathless team or spurring on their fury? Only Patroclus. skilled as the gods themselves while the man was still alive— now death and fate have got him in their grip. On with it! Take up the whip and shining reins. I’ll dismount the car and fight on foot.”

The Iliad, 17.544-551. Translation by Robert Fagles.

Furthermore, in The Iliad the horses mourn Patroclus, missing him after he dies and only move after Zeus intervenes. During Patroclus' funeral, Achilles even describes how the horses are sad because Patroclus was so good at taking care of them. Therefore, Patroclus's skill in this context wasn’t a claim of Automedon alone. It isn’t a subjective idea, it’s objective.

Plutarch, while making arguments — not related to the myth, he just uses the myth as an example —, mentions how Achilles' horses were loyal to Patroclus.

[...] Now I here call those honors which the people, Whose right it is, so name; with them I speak: as Empedocles has it; since a wise statesman will not despise true honor and favor, consisting in the good-will and friendly disposition of those who gratefully remember his services; nor will he contemn glory by shunning to please his neighbors, as Democritus would have him.For neither the fawning of dogs nor the affection of horses is to be rejected by huntsmen and jockeys; nay, it is both profitable and pleasant to breed in those animals which are brought up in our houses and live with us, such a disposition towards one's self as Lysimachus's dog showed to his master, and as the poet relates Achilles's horses to have had towards Patroclus. [...]

Moralia, Political Precepts, 820f-821a. Translation by William Watson Goodwin.

Philostratus, who directly disagreed with Homer on some points and directly agreed with him on others (through the account of the ghost of the character Protesilaus, here a cult figure) in a context too complex for me to explain, says that “his horses carried Patroklos safe and sound, just as they did Achilles” and when describing Patroclus mentions that “His nose was straight, and he flared his nostrils as eager horses do” (Heroica, 736). So there is still an association of Patroclus with horses, although not as emphasized as in The Iliad. Also, Philostratus wrote the characters in a way that is very intertwined with their hero cults.

Interestingly, Ptolemy Hephaestion wrote a version of the story in which the reason Patroclus was a good horseman was that the god Poseidon, whose lover he was, taught him.

[...] Homer calls Patroclus the first horseman because he learned from Poseidon, who loved him, the art of riding horses.

Bibliotheca, 190.6. Translation by John Henry Freese.

Sure, when I read this I thought it was funny that Patroclus fucked his friend's great-grandfather (context: Poseidon > Neleus > Nestor > Antilochus), and in fact Ptolemy gives a number of versions not found anywhere else and not really very popular, and I won't lie and say I really like his versions (for example, Oneiros seems like a really pointless addition to me. And the Penthesilea myth is so... anticlimactic?). But when I try to think about what logic Ptolemy used, it's actually kind of... impressive? I mean, Poseidon is the associated with horses and even the creation of horses is credited to him — as a quick example of Poseidon's association with horses: “Earth-shaking Poseidon, he is devoted to you, who rule over horse-races, and his thoughts are pleasing to you. His sweet temperament, when he associates with his drinking companions, surpasses even the bee's intricate honeycomb”, Pythian Ode 6 by Pindar. Hephaestion justifying Patroclus' skill with horses by using the god associated with them, in a way, a way of highlighting that Patroclus is so good at it that he received divine teaching from the god who supposedly knows the most about the subject. So to me, this isn't just about Patroclus fucking Antilochus' great-grandfather (sorry for my immaturity, I still think the idea is funny), it's also about his skill!

Anyway, what I want to say is that Patroclus was certainly a horse girl.

Dogs

This is kind of a bonus, but in The Iliad it’s said that Patroclus had nine dogs in “And the dead lord Patroclus had fed nine dogs at table” (Book 23, lines 198-199). Because of the term used, it is believed that these are Patroclus's actual pet dogs. I’m putting this here to argue for the possibility that Patroclus was simply skilled with animals in general, given the whole horse girl thing and now this.

Cooking

And, of course, he knows how to cook. It's not a war skill, but I still think it's worth mentioning that he was responsible for serving food and wine to Achilles and sometimes Achilles' guests.

He paused. Patroclus obeyed his great friend, who put down a heavy chopping block in the firelight and across it laid a sheep’s chine, a fat goat’s and the long back cut of a full-grown pig, marbled with lard. Automedon held the meats while lordly Achilles carved them into quarters. cut them well into pieces. pierced them with spits and Patroclus raked the hearth, a man like a god making the fire blaze. Once it had burned down and the flames died away, he scattered the coals and stretching the spitted meats across the embers, raised them onto supports and sprinkled clean pure salt. As soon as the roasts were done and spread on platters, Patroclus brought the bread, set it out on the board in ample wicker baskets. Achilles served the meat.

The Iliad, 9.246-260. Translation by Robert Fagles.

Given how casually Achilles asked Patroclus to cook and Patroclus complied, it seems to me that this is a common occurrence. Achilles also helps him naturally, as if it were a domestic routine. Therefore, Patroclus' cooking skills were hardly just basic survival skills, since they were part of his daily duties and he was even responsible for serving guests. This seems even more the case given that Achilles specifically laments not being able to eat Patroclus' food. He even describes Patroclus's cooking style as "quick and expert”.

[...] The memories swept over him ... sighs heaved from his depths as Achilles burst forth, "Ah god, time and again, my doomed, my dearest friend, you would set before us a seasoned meal yourself, here in our tents, in your quick and expert way, when Argive forces rushed to fight the Trojans. stampeding those breakers of horses into rout. But now you lie before me, hacked to pieces here while the heart within me fasts from food and drink  though stores inside are fuIlI'm sick with longing for you! There is no more shattering blow that I could suffer. [...]”

The Iliad, 19.372-382. Translation by Robert Fagles.

This role of Patroclus (in this case, serving Achilles and his guests) is mentioned in other texts, especially those that try to interpret this passage from Homer. Here are some examples, just because I find it intriguing to see sometimes what kind of analyses the ancients were interested in doing.

Concerning That Expression In Homer, ζωϱότεϱον δὲ ϰέϱαιε." NICERATUS, SOSICLES, ANTIPATER, PLUTARCH Some at the table were of opinion that Achilles talked nonsense when he bade Patroclus "mix the wine stronger," subjoining this reason, For now I entertain my dearest friends. But Niceratus a Macedonian, my particular acquaintance, maintained that ζωϱόν did not signify pure but hot wine; as if it were derived from ζωτιϰός and ζέσις (life-giving and boiling), and it were requisite at the coming of his friends to temper a fresh bowl, as every one of us in his offering at the altar pours out fresh wine. But Socicles the poet, remembering a saying of Empedocles, that in the great universal change those things which before were ἄϰϱατα, unmixed, should then be ζωϱά, affirmed that ζωϱόν there signified εὔϰϱατον, well tempered, and that Achilles might with a great deal of reason bid Patroclus provide well-tempered wine for the entertainment of his friends; and it was not absurd (he said) to use ζωϱότεϱον for ζωϱόν, any more than δεξιτεϱόν for δεξιόν, or ϑηλύτεϱον for ϑηλυ, for the comparatives are very properly put for the positives. My friend Antipater said that years were anciently called ὠϱοι, and that the particle ζα in composition signified greatness; and therefore old wine, that had been kept for many years, was called by Achilles ζωϱόν.

Moralia, Quaestiones Convivales, 5.4. Translation by William Watson Goodwin.

Again, Homer tells us what we are to do before we beg to eat, namely, we are to offer as first-fruits some of the food to the gods. At any rate, the men in the company of Odysseus, even when they were in the Cyclops's cave: 'Therefore" (they say) "we lighted a fire and offered sacrifice, and then we took ourselves and ate of the cheeses." And Achilles, although the envoys had come in haste in the mid-watches of the night, none the less "bade Patroclus, his companion, to offer sacrifice to the gods; and he lad first-offerings on the fire." Homer also shows us the feasters at least offering libations: "Young men filled the mixing-bowls to the brim with wine, and then measured it out to all, after they had poured the drink-offering into the cups. Then, when they had made libation. . . ." All of which Plato also retains in his symposium. For after the eating was over, he says that they offered libation and thanksgiving to the god with the customary honors. Similarly also Xenophon. But with Epicurus there is no libation, no preliminary offering to the gods; on the contrary, it is like what Simonides says of the lawless woman: "Oft times she eats up the offerings before they are consecrated."

Deipnosophists, 5.7. Translation by Charles Burton Gulick.

Battle/Body Count

Okay, I was actually going to start with Book 16 of The Iliad, but then I realized… ironically the first commonly caused death of Patroclus was accidental: Clysonymus. And the interesting part is: we don’t know how the hell this happened. People usually assume that Patroclus pushed him or something and I thought that too, but ironically there’s nothing that explicitly states the manner of death as far as I know. In fact, we don't even know what motivated Patroclus' anger... he lost and didn't accept it, Clysonimus cheated, was there some verbal provocation? We don't know. Anyway, maybe Patroclus was a hot-headed child? It’s not every day that you accidentally kill someone over a game after all… that’s not something that would happen commonly in a childish fight. Also, I think it's probably best if I mention that the Heroica excerpt shows Patroclus as a ghost and a cult figure, just to add context. Anyway, I'm going to count Clysonymus as the first kill, but that's not about battle prowess, since it was an accident and he was a child. It's just for the "Body Count" part.

“[...] But one thing more. A last request — grant it, please. Never bury my bones apart from yours, Achilles,  let them lie together... just as we grew up together in your house, after Menoetius brought me there from Opois, and only a boy, but banished for bloody murder the day I killed Amphidarnas' son. I was a fool! — never meant to kill him —  quarreling over a dice game. Then the famous horseman Peleus took me into his halls, he reared me with kindness, appointed me your aide. So now let a single urn, the gold two — handled urn your noble mother gave you, hold our bones — together!"

The Iliad, 23.99-110.Translation by Robert Fagles.

[...] At Opus, in a quarrel over a game of dice, Patroclus killed the boy Clitonymus, son of Amphidamas, and flying with his father he dwelt at the house of Peleus [...]

Library, 3.13.8. Translation by J.G. Frazer.

VINEDR: [...] They also sing of how, while young herdsmen were playing dice around the altar of Achilles, one would have struck the other dead with a shepherd's crook, had not Patroklos scared them away, saying, "One shedding of blood on account of dice is enough for me." But it is possible to find out about these things from the cowherds or anyone living in Ilion. [...]

Heroica, 686. Translation by Jennifer K. Berenson Maclean and Ellen Bradshaw Aitken.

In a version given by Strabo of a local tradition of the Locrians, the boy's name is extremely different, as it’s Aeanis.

[...] Now Homer says that Patroclus was from Opus,​ and that after committing an involuntary murder he fled to Peleus, but that his father Menoetius remained in his native land; for thither Achilles says that he promised Menoetius to bring  back Patroclus when Patroclus should return from the expedition. However, Menoetius was not king of the Opuntians, but Aias the Locrian, whose native land, as they say, was Narycus. They call the man who was slain by Patroclus "Aeanes"; and both a sacred precinct, the Aeaneium, and a spring, Aeanis, named after him, are to be seen.

Geography, 4.4.2. Translation by H. L. Jones.

The scholia of The Iliad also comments on this, giving two possible names for the dead boy.

Menoitios’ son Patroklos grew up in Opos in Locris but was exiled for an involuntary mistake. For he killed a child his age, the son of the memorable Amphidamas Kleisonumos, or, as some say, Aianes, because he was angry over dice. He went to Phthia in exile for this crime and got to know Achilles there because of his kindship with Peleus. They cemented a deep friendship with one another before they went on the expedition against Troy. This story is from Hellanicus.

Scholia of Iliad. See here.

There is another possible first death of Patroclus, this being Las. This is because it happened when Patroclus was Helen's suitor, which makes more sense to have happened before his exile given the circumstances of the event. Why would such a exiled child be Helen's suitor? It doesn't make sense. Now someone with high status? It makes sense. Even though he was chronologically too young for Helen, he could have been betrothed until he came of age. This idea of ​​Patroclus killing Las doesn’t seem to be a common version, and seems to be a speculation by Pausanias in my opinion. Despite saying that the local myth that Achilles killed Las is wrong because Achilles was never Helen's suitor and attributing it to Patroclus because he was one of the suitors (see Library 3.10.8 and Fabulae 81 as examples of this), Pausanias never explains how this happened or why. I mean, yeah, Patroclus was a suitor...but what about that? A lot of mythological male characters were. Grown men, even. Why Patroclus and not them? Is it because of his association with Achilles? Like, "hey, you guys thought it was Achilles, but it wasn't him. It was his dearest, duh"?

At a spot called Arainus is the tomb of Las with a statue upon it. The natives say that Las was their founder and was killed by Achilles, and that Achilles put in to their country to ask the hand of Helen of Tyndareus. In point of fact it was Patroclus who killed Las, for it was he who was Helen's suitor. We need not regard it as a proof that Achilles did not ask for Helen because he is not mentioned in the Catalogue of Women as one of her suitors.

Description of Greece, 3.24.10. Translation by W.H.S. Jones.

Honestly, I find the whole idea kind of funny because, chronologically, Achilles at this time was probably less than 10 years old and Patroclus wasn't much older. So this local legend indicates that the founder of the city was killed by a child. Sure, in Achilles' case I guess it could make sense because of the whole thing about him being stronger than the average human, but with Pausanias' assumption that it was Patroclus, an common mortal who was a child or at most a pre-teen, who killed Las... well, I imagine that this legend probably exists because being killed by Achilles would be a woah! way to die (after all, no one can judge you as weak for that since it's Achilles) and no one was really thinking about chronology as is typical of organic myths. As for the version with Patroclus, I think it exists because theoretically Achilles wasn’t Helen's suitor, and he was never even involved in the Oath of Tyndareus in the sources i’ve read. But we can't be absolutely sure if this was just Pausanias' deduction or if it was already a thought that others had and Pausanias repeated. In any case, it was a local tradition that hasn’t been widely spread.

And here you think: okay, now it's TROY! No, now it's the JOURNEY TO TROY! Ships, remember? Before Troy, the Achaeans fought against the Mysians, who were led by Telephus, a son of the famous Heracles. If you know the basics of this myth you already know that Telephus was wounded by Achilles and later had to be healed by him, but an interesting detail that Pindar mentions is that Patroclus “stood alone beside Achilles, when Telephus turned to flight the mighty Danaans”. There is no death caused by Patroclus stated here, but it fits as a battle feat I imagine. At least, in the Greek scholia there was a passage that was something like “to present to the wise man how Patroclus was equipped with courage”/”in order to present to the prudent man how Patroclus was distinguished by courage” in an improvised translation/”so that the wise man would know that Patroclus was brave, standing against Telephus” (see here and here).

[...] Menoetius, whose son went with the Atreidae to the plain of Teuthras, and stood alone beside Achilles, when Telephus turned to flight the mighty Danaans, and attacked their ships beside the sea, to reveal to a man of understanding. From that time forward, the son of Thetis exhorted him in deadly war never to post himself far from his own man-subduing spear.

Olympian Ode 9. Translation by Diane Arnson Svarlien.

This is also mentioned by Philostratus, although he adds Protesilaus as one of the prominent characters in the scene — the text of Heroica emphasizes Protesilaus in general, so this isn’t unexpected.

VINEDR: [...] Protesilaos said that he and Achilles together with Patroklos were arrayed against the Mysians [...]

Heroica, 689. Translation by Jennifer K. Berenson Maclean and Ellen Bradshaw Aitken.

And now it's Troy! In Book 16, Patroclus’s named deaths are:

(I’m using Robert Fagles’ translation as references for the localizations in parentheses)

Pyraechmes (337)

Areilycus (362)

Pronous (474)

Thestor (477)

Erylaus (490)

Amphotereus (495)

Erymas (495)

Epaltes (495)

Tlepolemus (496)

Echius (496)

Pyris (496)

Ipheus (497)

Euippus (497)

Polymelus (497)

Thrasymelus (550)

Sarpedon (578-579)

Sthenelaus (684)

Adrestus (812)

Autonous (812)

Echeclus (812)

Perimus (813)

Epistor (813)

Melanippus (813)

Elasus (814)

Mulius (814)

Pylartes (814)

Cebriones (860)

But Patroclus actually killed more people than that in his aristeia — moment when a character proves to be an aristo, that is, the best; basically, generally martial/warlike prominence of the character —, after all we still have these lines:

[…] and Patroclus charged the enemy, fired for the kill. Three times he charged with the headlong speed of Ares, screaming his savage cry, three times he killed nine men.

The Iliad, XVI, 911-913. Translation by Robert Fagles.

He attacked three times and each time killed nine men, resulting in twenty-seven unnamed deaths. This means that in Book 16, Patroclus killed a total of 54 men in a single battle. This is an impressive feat indeed, but I also have to be fair and not omit that Patroclus had Zeus’s divine aid — Diomedes, Achilles, Odysseus, Paris and other characters also had divine aid so nothing rare or that takes away the merit completely, but important to mention. Euphorbus and Hector also killed Patroclus with divine aid (Apollo and Zeus, hi! Many remember Apollo because he literally knocked Patroclus off the walls of Troy and literally stripped him of his armor, but Zeus also masterminded it!). Zeus didn't directly interfere like Aphrodite did with Paris and Apollo did with Hector, but Achilles made a libation to him and asked for two things 1) that Patroclus get glory 2) that Patroclus return safely, and the text says that Zeus accepted the first prayer and rejected the second...so I imagine he had some influence on Patroclus getting glory. And yes! Zeus both gave glory to Patroclus and was partly responsible for his death, but no, this wasn't Zeus being volatile! Suffice it to say, there was a whole context about balance, destiny, necessary things, etc.

Clearly the most notable of these deaths is Sarpedon, a demigod of Zeus. Not only is he the most prominent character of those Patroclus killed, he is generally Patroclus's most remembered feat in other texts. In a fragment attributed to Hesiod, we have a part related to Sarperdon. Although it doesn’t finish what is being said, it’s obviously about Patroclus’ aristeia and the death of Sarpedon:

Oxyrhynchus Papyri 1358 fr. 1 (3rd cent. A.D.): “[…] Very greatly did he excel in war together with man-slaying Hector and brake down the wall, bringing woes upon the Danaans. But so soon as Patroclus had inspired the Argives with hard courage…“

Catalogues of Women, frag 19A. Translation by Evelyn-White, H G.

Pseudo-Apollodorus also mentions Sarpedon prominently, while the others are just “many”.

But when Achilles saw the ship of Protesilaus burning, he sent out Patroclus with the Myrmidons, after arming him with his own arms and giving him the horses. Seeing him the Trojans thought that he was Achilles and turned to flee. And having chased them within the wall, he killed many, amongst them Sarpedon, son of Zeus, and was himself killed by Hector, after being first wounded by Euphorbus.

Library, E.4.6. Translation by J.G. Frazer.

Philostratus says that Patroclus never wore Achilles' armor. Yet Patroclus's deeds remain. The difference is that there is no Achilles' armor in the equation.

VINEDR: Not in the way that Homer when he depicted cities, stars, wars, fields, weddings, and songs, but the following is what Protesilaos says about it. The armor of Achilles has never been anything other than what he brought to Troy, neither was Achilles' armor ever destroyed, nor did Patroklos put it on because of Achilles' wrath. He says that Patroklos died in his own armor while distinguishing himself in battle and just grasping the wall, and the armor of Achilles remained inviolable and unassailable.

Heroica, 732. Translation by Jennifer K. Berenson Maclean and Ellen Bradshaw Aitken. 

Tryphiodorus' poem, which is more like a summary to be honest, also chose this moment as one of the important ones to report:

[...] The Lycians wept for Sarpedon whom his mother, glorying in the bed of Zeus, had sent to Troy; howbeit he fell by the spear of Patroclus, son of Menoetius, and there was shed about him by his sire a mist that wept tears of blood. [...]

The Taking of Ilios. Translation by A.W. Mair.

What is told by Quintus Smyrnaeus occurs AFTER Patroclus's death, and therefore Patroclus isn’t really a character in Posthomerica/The Fall of Troy. However, he’s still mentioned. In one of these mentions, we have the fight against Sarpedon.

[...] So in their midst gave Thetis unto him a chariot and fleet steeds, which theretofore mighty Patroclus from the ranks of Troy drave, when he slew Sarpedon, seed of Zeus [...]

Posthomerica, Book 4. Translation by A.S. Way.

Clement of Alexandria, whose work also has a really specific context, at one point uses the death of Sarpedon by Patroclus as a kind of argument.

You have proof of all this in your mysteries themselves, in the solemn festivals, in fetters, wounds and weeping gods: "Woe, yea, woe be to me! that Sarpedon, dearest of mortals, doomed is to fall by the spear of Patroclus son of Menoetius." [Homer, Iliad 16.433] The will of Zeus has been overcome, and your supreme god, defeated, is lamenting for Sarpedon’s sake.

Exhortation to the Greeks, Book 4.Translation by G.W. Butterworth.

Dictys Cretensis, despite varying considerably from the most common version of the myth (for example, Patroclus doesn’t die on the same day that he kills Sarpedon), still presents Patroclus as being the one who kills Sarpedon.

In another part of the field Patroclus and Sarpedon the Lycian had withdrawn from their men and were trying to protect the flanks of their respective armies. Driving out beyond the battle lines, they challenged each other to fight in single combat. First, they threw their spears, but neither hit the mark. Then, leaping from their chariots and drawing their swords, they came face to face and fought for much of the day, exchanging blows fast and furious, but neither could wound the other. Finally, Patroclus, realizing that he must act with greater boldness, crouched behind the protection of his shield and came to close quarters. With his right hand he dealt Sarpedon a crippling blow along the back sinews of the leg and then, pressing his body against him – Sarpedon was faint and beginning to totter – pushed him over and finished him off as he fell.

Dictys Cretensis, Book 3. Translation by R.M. Frazer.

Hyginus — Fabulae has a lot of Greek myths adapted for a Roman audience, so I'm considering it — seems to be just repeating Homer. The descriptions of Patroclus’ attitudes follow The Iliad and he even says Patroclus killed 54 people, the same number of men he kills in Book 16 (see Fabulae, 106, 112, 114). The thing is: considering that the number is the same as in Book 16 of The Iliad, it seems to me that Hyginus was counting Patroclus' deaths in just one day and not actually the people he killed in the entire ten years of war — that number is still unknown.

There is a VERY unusual version of the myth in which the Trojan prince Paris is killed by both Achilles and Patroclus, and we know this because of Plutarch. This, of course, is an unusual version, since usually both Patroclus and Achilles die before Paris. Furthermore, Paris' death is usually caused by a poisoned arrow from the hero Philoctetes, a gift from Heracles to him, coupled with Paris’ rejected first wife Oenone's refusal to heal Paris after he had unjustly abandoned her in favor of beautiful Helen, which leads to his death. Plutarch finds this version dubious, and attributes it to Ister. I honestly find it surprising even for a variant, not only because for this to happen the myth would have to change drastically, but also because I genuinely cannot understand how the hell it would take two of them to kill Paris. Menelaus is weaker than Achilles and he single-handedly defeated Paris before Aphrodite intervened, after all. Incidentally, Hector is stronger than Menelaus and needed a lot of help to kill Patroclus and was killed by Achilles (who also received help, mind you. Athena, hi). Even Paris only killed Achilles because he had help from Apollo and some versions even mention only Apollo as the killer without mentioning Paris having any role (e.g. Sophocles' Philoctetes and Fabulae). In other words, it really doesn't make sense in my opinion. Anyway, I think it's fair to mention all versions, so here I am.

But a very peculiar and wholly divergent story about Aethra is given by Ister in the thirteenth book of his "Attic History." Some write, he says, that Alexander (Paris) was overcome in battle by Achilles and Patroclus in Thessaly, along the banks of the Spercheius, but that Hector took and plundered the city of Troezen, and carried  p81 away Aethra, who had been left there. This, however, is very doubtful.

Life of Theseus, 34.2. Translation by Bernadotte Perrin.

There are other times when Patroclus's war skills are highlighted in texts, whether these texts are poems, plays, debates, etc.

Plutarch mentions the duality of Patroclus' character at one point in the text, mentioning how he had a calm personality and yet was able to do what he did in his aristeia. For context: the phrase mentioned by Plutarch is a reference to what Patroclus says to Hector before he dies — thus, Book 16 of The Iliad —, claiming that Hector only defeated him with divine help from Apollo and Zeus and that, otherwise, several of him still wouldn't be enough.

[...] So, although Homer described Patroclus in the happinesses of his life as smooth and without envy, yet in death he makes him have something of the bravo, and a soldier's gallant roughness: “Had twenty mortals, each thy match in might, Opposed me fairly, they had sunk in fight." [...]

Moralia, How A Man May Inoffensively Praise Himself Without Being Liable To Envy, 5. Translation by William Watson Goodwin.

In Philostratus' text, Patroclus' warrior skill is emphasized. For example, at one point, the character Vinedr uses Patroclus along with Diomedes and Ajax as examples of good warriors.

VINEDR: [...] As a fighter, he would not have been inferior in any way to Diomedes, Patroklos, or the lesser Ajax.

Heroica, 675. Translation by Jennifer K. Berenson Maclean and Ellen Bradshaw Aitken.

When speaking about the importance of Telephus, son of Heracles, in Mysia, Vinedr once again uses Diomedes and Patroclus as references for heroes celebrated alongside the Aiakidai — the descendants of the judge of the dead Aeacus, son of the nymph Aegina and the Olympian Zeus; for example, Achilles, a descendant on the side of Peleus, of whom Aeacus is the father with Endeis being the mother.

VINEDR: [...] Just as the Achaeans celebrated in song the Aiakidai and heroes as renowned as Diomedes and Patroklos, so the Mysians sang the names of Telephos and Haimos, son of Ares. [...]

Heroica, 688. Translation by Jennifer K. Berenson Maclean and Ellen Bradshaw Aitken.

Both Patroclus and Big Ajax are described as “excellent fighting machines” by Palamedes. And of course, you may remember Palamedes from the Epic Cycle, but I want to clarify that Philostratus writes Palamades in a positive light as opposed to Odysseus, who he writes in a negative light. So in this case, Palamades is a pretty reliable figure.

VINEDR: [...] When Palamedes sailed back to the encampment and reported the events of the expedition, ascribing everything to Achilles, he said he said, "King, are you ordering me to attack the walls of Troy? I believe the Aiakidai, both the son of Kapaneus and the son of Tydeus, the Locrians, and, of course, Patroklos and Ajax are excellent fighting machines. But if you also need lifeless fighting machines, believe Troy already lies within my control." [...]

Heroica, 714. Translation by Jennifer K. Berenson Maclean and Ellen Bradshaw Aitken.

In the Suda, a Byzantine encyclopedia, there is an explanation of a proverb about the descendants of the nymph Aegina, supposedly in reference to their having been better in the past. Among the said descendants of Aegina who were better in the past, Patroclus is listed. Thus, Patroclus is an example of “excellent youth”.

Translated headword: at first Aegina brought forth excellent youths [...] Translation: A proverb. For at its peak, they say, the Aeginetans changed for the worse from [sc the days] of Achilles, Patroclus, Aias [and] Neoptolemus]. Greek Original: *ta\ prw=t' a)ri/stous pai=das *ai)/gin' e)ktre/fei: paroimi/a. e)n a)kmh=| ga/r, fasi/, metaba/llousin e)pi\ to\ xei=ron oi( *ai)ginh=tai a)po\ *)axille/ws, *patro/klou, *ai)/antos, *neoptole/mou.

Suda, tau.109. Translation by David Whitehead.

Patroclus' association with Aegina occurs in more than one way (Hesiod says that Menoetius was the brother of Peleus, whose grandmother Aegina is. See Catalogues of Women, frag  61. Pindar says that Menoetius is the son of Aegina and Actor. See Olympian Ode, 9.50. A scholia of Pindar says that Menoetius is the son of Actor by Damocratia, daughter of Aegina and Zeus and thus Aeacus’ sister. See here. An improvised translation would be something like: “And Pythenetus (FHG IV, 487) says that, having come together with Zeus, Aegina gave birth to Aeacus and Damocratia, whom Actor was to marry in Thessaly and to bear Menoetius; afterwards, however, he went to Opuntia... for he was a relative of the Locrian.”), and the Suda doesn’t specify which version it’s using when it says this.

In the comedy Frogs, Aristophanes has Aeschylus claim that he composed “many great feats of valor,” and he gives Patroclus and Teucer as examples (see Frogs). Sure, you might think, “Since when did Aeschylus write anything about those two?” but in that case, we should remember that many of Aeschylus’ plays are lost. It’s possible that Aristophanes was referring to real plays. For example, judging by the titles of some of the lost plays, it’s been theorized that he may have written a trilogy centered around the suicide of Ajax, which would likely have included Teucer as a character. And one of the lost trilogies concerned Achilles, including the character Patroclus. Patroclus was already dead, since the first play entitled Myrmidons is about Achilles’ mourning, but it shows that at least Aeschylus didn’t ignore Patroclus. So perhaps it makes sense that Aristophanes chose Patroclus and Teucer, because Aeschylus probably actually wrote about such characters.

The bucolic poet Theocritus uses Patroclus as one of the comparisons to exalt Adonis. It seems random, but it will make more sense if you read the complete text. The characteristic attributed to Patroclus is bravery, which is probably linked to the war scenario.

[...] And blosoms bare all shining fair will raise this shrilling lay; – “O sweet Adonis, none but thee of the children of Gods and men ‘Twixt overworld and underworld doth pass and pass agen; That cannot Agamemnon, nor the Lord o’ the Woeful Spleen, Nor the first of the twice-ten children15 that came of the Trojan queen, Nor Patroclus brave, nor Pyrrhus bold that home from the war did win, Nor none o’ the kith o’ the old Lapith nor of them of Deucalion’s kin – E’en Pelops line lacks fate so fine, and Pelasgian Argos’ pride. Adonis sweet, Adonis dear, be gracious for another year; Thou’rt welcome to thine own alwáy, and welcome we’ll both cry to-day and next Adonis-tide.”

Idyll XV, 134-144. Translation by J.M. Edmonds.

In one of Pindar's odes, he writes about the victorious boxer Hagesidamus and his mentor Ilas, comparing them to Patroclus and Achilles. This comparison has opened up room for possible interpretation, with some people interpreting the passage as indicating that, similar to Hagesidamus and Ilas, Patroclus and Achilles were also capable boxers. However, Pindar could also simply have intended to use Patroclus and Achilles as a model of a relationship to be compared with Hagesidamus and Ilas.

[...] let Hagesidamus, victorious as a boxer at Olympia, offer thanks to Ilas, just as Patroclus did to Achilles. [...]

Olympian Ode 10. Translation by Diane Arnson Svarlien.

The only other time I remember Patroclus and boxing appearing in the same scenario is in relation to his Funeral Games, where boxing was one of the sports. Now, that doesn't mean Patroclus liked boxing, just that it was one of the sports. There was also an archery competition and I don't remember any source associating Patroclus with archery, for example.

Ghost

You see, we know that in The Iliad the ghost of Patroclus appears briefly only to ask Achilles to give him the funeral rites, otherwise he will be unable to enter Hades and, consequently, find rest. This, mind you, is not an ability of Patroclus, just a side effect of being a dead without rites. He isn’t even the only one to do this, as seen in Euripides’ Hecuba with Polydorus. However, this is not the only time a source shows the ghost of Patroclus in action.

In Heroica, Patroclus' ghost is able to manifest at will. This is because of Patroclus' status as a worshipped hero, as these regional cults were characterized by the belief that the hero could manifest himself either at the place of worship or at his tomb, and sometimes both were the same place. Since Philostratus, the writer, was concerned with representing the Homeric heroes as closely as possible to their cult figures, it makes sense that he would write this type of scene. Patroclus manifested his presence to break up a fight, using his own regret for accidentally killing Clysonimus as an argument.

VINEDR: The events in the Pontus, my guest, if you have not yet sailed to it, and all those things that he is said to do on the island there I shall tell you [....] They also sing of how, while young herdsmen were playing dice around the altar of Achilles, one would have struck the other dead with a shepherd's crook, had not Patroklos scared them away, saying, "One shedding of blood on account of dice is enough for me." But it is possible to find out about these things from the cowherds or anyone living in Ilion. Since we inhabit the banks of the Hellespont's outlets, we are in close contact with each other, and, as you see, we have turned the sea into a river. [...]

Heroica, 686. Translation by Jennifer K. Berenson Maclean e Ellen Bradshaw Aitken.

In the cities of the Black Sea/Euxine Pontus there was a cult of Achilles, who was given the name Achilles Pontarches to represent his role, since Pontarches meant something like “he who commands the sea” and Achilles was worshipped as the protector of sailors and provider of water. And what does this have to do with Patroclus, you ask? Well, this cult is associated with the myth in which Achilles is transported to a sacred island called Leuke after death instead of going to the Underworld, first attested in the lost epic Aethiopis. And although this epic doesn’t mention Patroclus going there, later sources, such as Pausanias, list Patroclus as a figure present at Leuke. In the Roman period, Arrian traveled through the region and, visiting places and speaking with locals, described characteristics of the cult. Among the characteristics, he said that Patroclus was also worshiped in the region and that his ghost even communicated with the residents.

[...] Some are in praise of Patroclus, whom those, who are disposed to honour Achilles, treat with equal respect. [...] They even say further, that Achilles has appeared to them not in time of sleep, or a dream, but in a visible form on the mast, or at the extremity of the yards, in the same manner as the Dioscuri have appeared. This distinction however must be made between the appearance of Achilles, and that of the Dioscuri, that the latter appear evidently and clearly to persons, who navigate the sea at large, and when so seen foretell a prosperous voyage; whereas the figure of Achilles is seen only by such as approach this island. Some also say, that Patroclus has appeared to them during their sleep. [...]

Arrian’s Voyage Round the Euxine Sea. Translation by William Falconer.

[whispangleblogger]

Ayyyyyyyy what a rough time we are going through right now ? Not really what everyone hoped for huh ? Well me neither so let’s cheer this Situation up a little, shall we :> Enough doom-saying, the Girls clearly have some Problems going on right now but things like that happen, looking back at everything with a clearer, more set in, mindset instead of the raw first encounter (Ho boy, ho boy, yeeeesh”””.. Tangle why... oh dear..), i had some great conversations with friends over the recent Arc and i bet this will be rewarding at the end of it. Really looking forward to more Character development for Whisper and Tangle. Rough road but we get there. Kudos to @scurvypiratehog​ :) ! Always enjoy our long, in detail, all about Snoc Convos. Anyway, i usually don’t share a lot of early sketches but i thought, thanks to the heavy circumstances right now, why not. The Art above is a bit older. I planned on finishing it last year but as many of my sketches i never really found the Time to do so. The Inspiration comes from this:

I love the Message behind the third eye kiss. Especially the Part about healing and brought in combination with Whisper, spoke to me. The Plan was to maybe finish this for Valentines Day. But i gotta be real here, i’m going through a rough time in RL right now as well, which makes it hard to work on more Art. There will be better times too though and i guess this one really will be  my next Piece for this year :> I have Stuff planned, just waiting for the Art Drive to fully come back. Can’t promise anything though but at least i can give everyone a cute teaser for now. Heads up Guys ! I send you some good vibes <3  

[hunniegl4zed]

Hey ideas are ideas! I just like looking into Sonic lore from different continuities a lot, and picking and choosing the bits from there. See what meshes well together. 

Shit I mean look at our boy, him suffering is the only canon event we should be worrying about / joke but also true 💀. 

Also the fun is infinite when you make stuff up too along with that. With the way space-time in the Sonic Universe gets so horribly warped in the first place, I say that anything is possible. 

So I can roll with the worlds and timelines getting unstable again, to where some places that were once lost before suddenly respawn. Everyone on Moebius proceeds with their lives as normal….except for Scourge who dreams frequently of his old life enough to where he starts asking questions….and it seems like nobody knows what he’s talking about. Even starts mixing things up and it unsettles him. The last straw being that he talks about a few zones he once visited, only to find out…they never existed. 

Something tells him that he should probably go to Sonic’s world to figure that out. 

Turns out to be the biggest mistake, because as soon he’s near the place, a terrifying vision of his last moments strikes, and his molecules get really unstable, nearly eliminating himself AGAIN. 

Could be another reason why Scourge takes so so long to contact Sonic as well. Zonic theorizes since some zones were very recently partially restored, going near the source (Sonic’s Zone) that is still largely readjusting itself could cause implosion for anyone who doesn’t originate from there.

He tries desperately to move forward with his new life only to find it’s as terrible as the last.

Having the memories meld together worsens his meltdown, to the point where he decides to make good on his promise with Moebius. By tearing apart the planet in his Super Form. ( Being extra for no reason here but his father was ALIVE again here. He was the last victim.)

Fiona is alarmed on why Scourge would even go this far in destroying Moebius, and this leads him to tell her everything. She doesn’t believe him unfortunately and ends up leaving him, only seeing that he would down-spiral from there. 

With no home to turn back or anyone by his side, the days slowly stop mattering to him. Until mid-way he crashes at Mayhem’s place once they find each other, deciding to go with that he knows him….despite actually knowing him in this timeline. It’s nice that he has one other guy to rely on even if this all can be erased someday too without warning and……….and………

he should really get some sleep. 

That’s one way this can be setup. Though feel free to explore Scourge’s story pre-delirium another way if you wish to do so.

EATING THIS UUUUPPPPP, It's like a 8 course meal!!! 😭🙏💚💚💚 Hope ya don't mind me combining the two asks, making it a little more clearer ✨️✨️✨️

His paranoia only getting worse when citizens of moebius start actively avoiding him, thinking this guy lost his marbles and should be send off to the looney bin. All off his crew seeing the path he goes down to leads them to step away from him, even Fiona can't stand being around him anymore. His "insane ramblings of other zones and people that aren't there" annoy or scare most of them away. Until he snaps :3

ANTI-JULES BEING HIS LAST VICTIM IS RAW AND I DON'T MIND AT ALL 🔥🔥🔥 THE expression he makes before Super Scourge beats him to a bloody pulp with his bare hands, is gonna be one if the faces that will haunt Scourge in his God forbidden nightmares.

Agree with you that Moebius would still be there, only for it to be empty and a place of death. All bodies of the dead will still be there when you enter it, just like how Scourge left it when he got burned out from his rampage. Almost apocalyptic.

Hecc to the no that Scourge ever wants to return to that place. If he's using a wrap ring, he can always slightly hear the screams of Moebius in the back of his mind. Always afraid that when he steps through one, it will lead him back there.

That's some of the reasons why his delirium picks up so fast. It can all be gone in the blink of an eye. When being in Sonic's world and staying at Mayhem, he tries to shake things off himself, "The past is in the past, right?". But boy oh boy, is our brains perfect at reliving your past~ ✨️✨️💅💅 Especially when you're trying to sleep and you're left alone with your thoughts 😌

[adventures-in-a-world-of-fiction]

My first harvest

I am going to wait until after blackberry season has finished before attempting to deal with the brambles at the back of the plot.

I'm trying to work out if someone has been dumping stuff on my plot or if I'm just oblivious. I've been dumping weeds in a big pile at the back so that I can deal with them all at once when I've finished clearing the beds. Today, I went to dump a new armload and there was a table there, behind the pile of weeds. I would swear that it wasn't there before.

There were also a couple of slightly broken chairs just off the path round to the mystery shed that I don't remember spotting before - but those I'm more likely to have missed because they're more out of sight.

I would assume I would have noticed the table before now since I've been dumping the weed pile there. I have a horrible suspicion someone saw my weed pile and thought "ah, clearly people are dumping rubbish on this overgrown plot" and decided to get rid of their unused furniture on it.

I would hope it would be obvious though that someone is working the plot now, which makes dumping stuff on it just mean. I have enough mess to deal with without people adding more.

I am hoping I just failed to spot it in the undergrowth.

On the plus side the plot is looking a lot clearer now than it was a week ago. I am really pleased with the progress I'm making.

I'm almost in compliance with the rule about displaying the plot number. There's a sign at the back with the plot number that you can just about see through the weeds now. At some point, I will move the sign nearer to the front of the plot like everyone else has it to make sure I'm following the rules, but that's not my highest priority.

Tomorrow, I'm going to keep weed clearing and plant a few more bits in that front bed. Then on Monday, I have a bonus day off work as a thank you/apology for having to deal with Problem Customer for the last year and a half. I will use that to try and turn that frame into a soft fruit cage and see whether I can get some raspberries, gooseberries, and/or blackcurrants from the garden centre.

[scoops404]

i feel horrible. I feel betrayed and I’m depressed but strangely not surprised?

Its not even, not even about who is worse or whatever, i just- I heard connor eats pants talk, he said how george and the dream team, (even if they don’t acknowledge it,) have a large young girl audience. That’s the part of the audience that helped them grow.(And id say the audience who was the most emotionally, young girls or queer people who a lot of the time grew up presenting female or queer people in general, who are also at higher risk of getting used or assaulted ) and how its disgusting and disappointing to see them drop these weird points about consent and i (as a part of that demographic myself) - that really hit me in some way. That really hit me and something about it rings in my chest with hurt an realisation. It makes me incredibly sad, and yet it makes me realise stuff.

That point to me seems incredibly important.

That fact makes their statements seem ignorant..

Im slowly coming to terms with how I personally want to move forward with acknowledging their content, the content that was genuinely helping my depression and was part of my routine. So I didn’t formulate this to be some sort of statement, but more of a “oh” moment that i wanted to share

These men don’t feel like they care about the large audience they hurt.. young girls, and how their respective statements about consent could affect idk their world view? :/

Something i got reminded of when reading tumblr after watching that connor tiktok clip of his stream.

I see where you're coming from and what you're feeling is valid and it's entirely up to you if you want to stay or not

I just think that we've seen a lot of examples of them being good to women, in a professional sense as well as personally (as recent as Sapnap's birthday stream we saw George direct the camera away from Sylvee's skirt while she was climbing the wall). This is not a defense of George's behavior regarding the Caiti situation in any way, shape, or form, but we also can't erase the good behavior that we have witnessed, you know?

Like, I've left fandoms for petty reasons and big reasons (i used to love shane dawson, I used to love david dobrik, i went on a weird hate watch spree for a couple depressing months in like 2018 for the paul brothers--i'm not proud) and when a cc's behavior becomes clear, I drop their ass. Even through the drituation, I've never seen behavior from the dreamteam that I thought was hateful against anyone and I believe they've always shown that they want to do what's right when they do mess up.

Do I think they have room to grow? Yeah, absolutely. But I don't think they secretly hate women or are exploiting us. ((no matter what Hannah is saying now, they have had many close female friends for quite a while--Puffy, Sylvee, Gia--and I feel like those people wouldn't have stuck around if they were shitty to women constantly when off camera))

I don't think this incident with Caiti is just another in a long line of dubious consent situations (not that I can know). If I thought they were doing this behind the scenes all the time, I'd nope out. I'm hoping that they can take this as a learning moment and find greater nuance in consent. We are always learning and Dream, the most, has always shown he's willing to take criticism and realize why something was wrong and not do it again. We've seen this from George too when he apologized for old screen shots with slurs. They aren't perfect, none of us are, but I have hope that they'll move forward with a clearer idea.

To be quite honest, I have seen the conversations around consent morph in my lifetime. It's a wonderful thing to see women speaking up and being believed and consequences coming down on men when, historically, that has almost never been the case. We need to keep having these conversations and reinforcing the line, no matter how uncomfortable it can be.

As far as dream team not caring about their audience, I can't really disagree with that right now lol. I certainly don't really feel cared for, but I'm here more for my friends now at this point.

Keep thinking through what this means for you and how you want to move forward for yourself. there's nothing wrong with putting them down for a while. I see a trend of former fans burning the ground as they leave, but like, you can just leave or take a little hiatus from dreamteam, and that's absolutely fine! You can always change your mind and come back, or you can find something else and get super invested in that. No one is going to track what you're doing and judge you, I promise.

As far as content to help you through depression, I can't recommend Brittany Broski and Trixie and Katya enough. I've been listening to Trixie and Katya's Podcast, the Bald and the Beautiful, for my long commutes and they keep me laughing. I'd start with their "Unhhh" youtube series though because it's..... Hilarious

Sorry this got so long. Classic Scoops

[uyuforu]

Hiii.

How are you doing? I hope things are good. I would like to participate in your game. Here are my charts:

For exchange:

These are some things that I feel like could be true about your FS.

💭Your fs  is very intelligent,wise right off the bat.

ASC at 21° + MC at 9° in Juno PC . He could appear very knowledgeable in his professional life. Someone who knows what is to be done.

He could even be powerful because of his knowledge/wisdom(Sag Pluto 9°).

💭And because Uranus aspects   10H Pluto , it will give him unique ideas or ways of executing his knowledge. The type to not just be a bookworm. And because he has this unique way of doing things , he can be less intimidating to others although he seems to have that strong aura in his professional field.

💭Moon is in trine and Venus is sextile with Pluto...damn he must be popular amongst females. He probably attracts lots of sapiosexual people .Women love his nerdy brain.

Appearance wise , he's very attractive. He is secretive , mysterious in his ways . Very calm and composed. Mature and organized. But boy when he is pissed,he's PISSED.

He has this intensity about him that is very calm like the type of beauty that slowly, very slowly makes you drunk.

He could be obsessive...stalking even.

💭Your fs has great sex appeal too. He is just sexy even if he's just existing. He is a passionate man. And when he loves you, he will SHOW it.Grand gestures .

Food could be a way. Like taking you to fancy restaurants or ordering your favourite food.(Scorpio Groom 1°square Leo Venus )

Oh my goddd...He probably feels like he's not a good enough boyfriend or his way of expressing love is not very nice. He loves you deeply but his weird/unique  way of expressing it makes him feel not good enough internally. Externally he might seem okay or even confident.

He is sexually very attractive as well. He seems confident and that's just simply HOT. Also he probably daydreams about the sexy stuff.(Mars 24° sex. Moon Juno PC)

💭Your fs could have some wounds from past friendships. But he probably learnt some life lessons through them. I think his education process was traumatizing to some extent.

He could have been struggling due to his studies but he was strong and bounced back 10× stronger.  Although it was painful, it made him see clearer and could've have found his 'purpose ' in the process.

Emotional intensity. Hot and cold behaviour at times because of his past experiences,he could feel sad.

Good imagination power.

He could be into women who are textbook beautiful..Libra ppl...but he also likes some uniqueness about you...like yea you're really pretty but what's the weird thing of yours that  makes you beautiful in my eyes...that energy. He loves/adores eccentric ppl..who are different and refreshing. People who are owning their shit.

💭Your fs could have some major placements in Aquarius /Sagittarius/Aries..His Mars could be dominant. Saturn as well.Taurus or maybe an earth sign Saturn?

Your fs might have beautiful eyes..the ones that scream royalty..like back the fuck off.

But if he's in love with someone, his eyes will be lit with passion and I can see a devilish smirk on his face in my head😭

(Literally he's  something else when turned on..its like a whole new world)

💭He's someone who will age well. His 'beauty' blooms better with age.

💭He's spontaneous,weird but full of love and knowledge. Feels frustrated when he can't express shit. Very reserved and quite generally but likes talking when he's comfortable with someone. 

Union is in Libra in both charts.  Maybe you met in a very balanced setting..well organized bc of that virgo degree. Venus at 11° tho..online meeting at some point. It could've felt like a dream meeting your fs.

In both PCs, Groom is conjunct Vertex..he was meant to be a groom/husband.

Idk how accurate I was but yeah. (This is my first time reading for someone so 🤡)

Thank you so much for reading till the end. And I appreciate your work here on tumblr.💗

GAME IS CLOSED. Thank you for participating to the game. Here is your reading. Also thank you for the reading. It was super detailed so I must thank you a lot for that, and I think it's a terrific analysis!! Really enjoyed it :)

જ⁀➴ Could meet FS in church, or in a religious setting, while traveling, or in college, or while studying. You could meet them unexpectedly, or just out of nowhere, in your everyday life. You could also meet them online, and have a crush on them, or they have a crush on you. Or you will text, call a lot.

જ⁀➴ FS can be a foreigner, but they can also be someone who is quite athletic about their look.

જ⁀➴ They can work out a lot, and be considered "hot" or "sexy"

જ⁀➴ FS can be very worried or anxious about their money, but at the same time they can have hard times not spending money lol. Love to shopping, and can actually spend a lot in a little time.

જ⁀➴ FS is smart, and FS and you could study the same thing.

જ⁀➴ FS can be more logical than creative, and have hard time to let their imagination flow

જ⁀➴ FS can also either not want children or have no plans with children for their future.

જ⁀➴ FS does wanna get married, and will probably know they will marry you when they meet you.

જ⁀➴ FS is hard working and has a lot of ambition. Can succeed in their career eventually.

જ⁀➴ FS is super popular among friends, can have a lot of friends. People may find your FS to be very nice and cool, get along with anyone.

જ⁀➴ FS can also have friends around the world

જ⁀➴ FS can also use social medias a lot and have a good amount of followers

જ⁀➴ FS can be popular among women

જ⁀➴ FS can also be quite lucky in general

જ⁀➴ FS can be more secretive than they show.

Potential placements of FS:

𝜗𝜚 Aries/ 1H

𝜗𝜚 Leo/ 5H

𝜗𝜚 Gemini/ 3H

𝜗𝜚 Libra/ 7H

𝜗𝜚 Pisces/ 12H

𝜗𝜚 Taurus/ 2H

𝜗𝜚 Possible Earth Moon

𝜗𝜚 Possible Fire Rising

If you enjoyed the reading you can post a review about it or tell me what you think. Have a nice day!

Thank you for reading!

back to index ; ask ; request ; rules

[cyncerity]

About the situation

ok so i hate addressing drama on here but this feels important.

If this is how you’re learning about the Shubble situation, i apologize

more under the cut

first things first: i 100% stand with and believe Shubble. My heart is with her fully and I’m so glad she’s healing from what she went through with her abuser.

the reason im posting this, though, is because of the discourse surrounding Wilbur Soot and the possibility/evidence that he was the unnamed abuser Shubble was talking about. And as many of you know, i post a lot of crimeboy/sbi/wilbur-centric stuff. For now, because from what i can tell the situation is less than a week old, i’m going to give Wilbur time to respond. I won’t say that it’s him, i won’t say that it’s not him, but i’m prepared for the worst.

As for this blog, i’m probably going to handle this the same way i handled the Dream situation; i’m going to take a break from Wilbur centric aus for the moment until things become clearer, but the odds that i’ll stop writing for his character all together are slim. I don’t write with ccs in mind, ever, period. At this point i’m treating the dsmp cast like OCs with how far removed from their og characters they tend to be in my stories. In all honestly, i stopped watching half of these creators over a year ago, but i still like the idea of their dsmp characters. Hell, to be completely truthful i don’t think i’ve ever watched a Dream or Sapnap youtube video in full and those two are main characters in like half of my aus.

Also clarification just so this doesn’t get misconstrued: when i say “i’m going to handle this like the Dream situation,” i mean i’m gonna keep writing and not take down my previous stories, i’m just going to distance myself from the creator until more comes to light. I don’t want to compare Shubble’s experiences with abuse to fakes snapchat screenshots posted on twitter. Again, I stand with and believe Shubble’s story 100%, abuse is not something to be taken lightly and I wish her nothing but the best. It takes guts to speak out like she has and I commend her bravery.

This situation is a bit harder for me than the Dream one, though, because as I mentioned, i was never a huge cc!Dream fan, more a c!Dream fan. But I’ll be devastated if this is all true because I was a huge Wilbur Soot fan. Never really liked LoveJoy, just wasn’t my type of music, but SootHouse was quite literally the first YouTube channel i ever watched. Not to be parasocial, but Wilbur’s videos got me through some tough times. His YLYL videos were the only things that brought me joy when Techno’s death announcement was released on my birthday. I really looked up to him.

I don’t want to make this about me, the main thing in this situation is to support Shubble. No matter who the ex is, she deserves all of our unwavering support right now. I hope that if it wasn’t Wilbur that he somehow clears his name soon, but that if it was (im hoping it’s not but im not ignorant enough to blindly disregard all the evidence) that he regrets what he did and is getting help. I believe people can change and that everyone deserves a second chance, but im not going to know what to think of him until he gives a genuine, heartfelt apology for his actions, fully commits to bettering himself, and proves that he’ll never do something like this again.

[dcviated]

MUNDAY: GETTING TO KNOW YOU

Respond to the following prompts out of character, then tag others you'd like to get to know a little bit better!

ROLEPLAYER NAME: bear! or will, I don't mind being referred to by my real name but even my wife calls me bear most of the time, so-

ROLEPLAYER PRONOUNS: he/him

MUSE NAME: I feel the mainstays will always be Wylan, Raguna, and Eira. But many many others-

PREFERRED COMMUNICATION: As needed. I'm low maintenance while still considering us 'in contact'. But I do love getting sent random bits as relevant and commentary on threads. I can be short or slow on replies at times though. Discord all the way over tumblr IM.

EXPERIENCE: Back when I was 15 or 16 on forums. I did some avatar games that had roleplay baked into it as well that were good. Did a lot of RP in warcraft back during BC to WOTLK, but could not get into it in FFXIV. Tumblr has been my favorite place to write, by far. I love getting into longer form. On that note-

PREFERRED ROLEPLAY TYPE: Literate paragraphs! I can't stay bantering in short stuff to save my life. Like a leak I inevitably switch over to having a paragraph. Then two. Maybe three. I'm pretty comfy around the 300-500 word length on my replies. I get intimidated when they get consistently longer and writer's block starts to lay its bricks.

PET PEEVES & DEALBREAKERS: An inability to meet halfway when plotting is brought up. I don't like being waited on like it's my responsibility to come up with a compelling plot that I suspect you'll half-ass reply to. Have some advocation for what you want. Otherwise ... yeah.

Also an overabundance of context-less dash commentary. Particularly connected to their discord happenings. Some blogs feel less 'indie' and more pseudo-group related. And if you're not involved good luck.

PLOTS OR MEMES: I like to think I'm pretty good rolling with the punches! I can do memes, random asks, and memes and ad-libbing a situation out of a few back and forth banters is really amusing. It's also easier than front-loading a ton of plotting that may or may not be realized anyway. Letting events happen off the cuff feels more dynamic and allows more surprises for both writing parties. <:

That said, don't mind plotting whatsoever! So long as the other person actually wants it and isn't going through the motion of it because it's 'what people do'. Also... I hope they're ready for the long game if so? Like they want to let the plot play out and not just making a plot and then jumping to the end of it.

Pre-establish-jutsu is not plotting!!

LONG REPLIES OR SHORT REPLIES: Middle?? Both?? There's a time for everything but like I said before I'm a fan of 300-500 words for my replies. Sometimes I like them shorter, others longer. But we're biasing towards the 'long' given when a lot of what's in vogue as of late.

BEST TIME TO WRITE: Whenever I can put my adhd into proper submission. I like writing at the office (after I have my work for the day handled) because it separates me from the usual distractions but we can only be so strong...

I like writing earlier in the day! I feel like my best work is done in the mornings, after all. And the head is clearer before I've hit lunch. So on weekends where I don't have plans and I can make myself sit down at a keyboard before everyone else is around, that's just great.

ARE YOU LIKE YOUR MUSES: Like any good oc writer, I pull out little pieces of myself and cram them into other beings to irreversibly corrupt them not unlike a certain villain from a certain manga. People have called me dad in the past... perhaps that fits better than I thought.

tagged by: @triinitas (thank!!) tagging: gosh this one has gone around a few times, steal it if you like!