#this is not hating on game of thrones the show

[his-madness-keeps-him-sane]

I honestly think that the inability to understand the most basic ideas of ASOIAF characters comes from bad faith criticism, especially if they think that "long winter" is not a central plot point of the story.

Whatever about worldbuilding, I don't care about the freaking bees of Westeros (and the problem is again that Martin has a stick up his ass and should act more like Tolkien and embrace more the poetry and less the pedantry).

I understand and enjoy criticism (1- I think he deserves it, 2- I like to interact with different opinions of things I read/watch/whatever) but saying "winter is unimportant" explains why so many understand the books as a misanthrope story.

Because you have Jaime's journey after "being evil" or Sansa learning the game of thrones to survive while knowing that she doesn't want to become a Cersei.

There's a lot of dark and cruelty but the central conclusion is always the same: be clever!

That's where the TV show failed, in the book consequences matter!

Ned is not dead because he was "good", Ned is dead because he was DUMB!

Nobody said "oh but why did he have to die?" because we know why!

Every single death happens because someone didn't know how to play the game.

That's why Daenerys is doomed to become a fascist (the tv show was BAD but the general idea of Dany turning "bad" is there in the books too).

That's why I will always defend Sansa (arguably the biggest victim of fan's misogyny).

The characters, good or bad, are (usually) incredibly well written, with (usually) a lot of nuance.

From the anti chosen one/Prince Charming of Dany/Jon to the child soldier metaphors of Arya there's really a lot of though and care behind them all. And that's why the books have become impossible to finish. Too many complex pieces to play with.

Martin has A LOT to criticize and I wish he stopped with the bullshit (and the obsession with rape, and the racism, and the...) but I can't understand how someone can read those books and think "this author thinks humans are awful".

Everyone hates Cersei and then Martin goes "Take this, a Cersei POV chapter" and... Fuck.

Yes, she's bad. But suddenly she is a person, not a fairy tale evil queen. She has ambition, she's scared, she's a mother, she's a woman in a sexist world full of violence against women... And we learn all those fears and dreams directly from her, from the "evil queen".

One of the little things that the TV show did well was Joffrey's death.

I remember people being... Uncomfortable. Because while enjoying the death of a monster they realized "wow... He's just a 16 year old boy... Dying in his mother's arms..."

And that, and not "historical accuracy" or whatever Martin claims, is the true golden heart of ASOIAF.

That the world is awful and make us awful

And that it doesn't have to be like that.

That's why the winter IS central.

Because a looming doom should be enough to make them realize how dumb the whole "game of thrones" is (like, you know...the real world and climate change??? The pandemic and the totally insufficient collaboration between countries???) and yet they keep fighting for an ugly chair that kills you if you sit on it too hard because it's made out of the swords of a colonialist war.

IT'S NOT SUBTLE

For all its faults, what ASOIAF is saying (or should be if Martin stopped with the bullshit) is that the world is awful, but you don't have to, and that it's never too late to change.

That you can be good but you have to be CLEVER.

That the kids are the future and can be the change.

That the Starks were always right and the winter is coming.

And that the lone wolf dies but the pack survives.

And I don't think he's ever gonna finish the books, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the last book is called "A promise of Spring".

Say what you want about Martin and his stupidity and empty pride.

But ASOIAF, even if failing a lot in achieving it, is ultimately about hope.

Hope in spite of horror.

Btw, a disclaimer: I'm not even a fan anymore!

I haven't even read the last published book!

But to be a hater you have to admit the good parts too!

Listen to Orson Welles, the OG hater!

Jeez!

Disclaimer x2: I refuse to acknowledge any grammar or orthographic mistake, I can't read anymore 😌

Someone over on Discord asked, "I'm morbidly curious: How BAD is A Song of Ice and Fire in terms of the authenticity George claims it to be?"

My reply was straightforward:

The long and the short of it is that ASOIAF is basically a vehicle for GRRM to present both his rape fetish and his Hobbesian view on human nature and has less historical accuracy than Frozen or most other Disney movies.

That's actually a good way to think of it, now that I've said it--he's Family Unfriendly, they're Family Friendly, but both have the same relationship with History: just Pure Aesthetic with no consideration for how the worldbuilding would work.

[blatterpussbunnyfromhell]

I still haven't had the time to watch the Wwdits finale, but I've seen enough of the plot online to talk about this. I've also seen people calling it "the worst ending in tv history" and I am convinced that these people are either very young or haven't seen that many tv shows in their lives lmao, or both.

Some of yous were in middle school when the Game Of Thrones finale aired so I don't think you were around for this but. That cultural juggernaut of a show that made every production team want to make the next GoT, a show that even people who weren't nerds or into fantasy that much were watching, from your stay-at-home mom to your jocky and preppy classmates, a show that was referenced everywhere on Youtube and tv, which had merch everywhere from specialized nerdy shops to big chain malls, a show that literally changed the media landscape for the better part of a DECADE

That show, fizzled out into oblivion because of how terribly written, rushed, incoherent with the plot and themes of the story it had established, its ending had been. People only remember it for its terrible ending now.

Are you telling me that Wwdits' ending was worse than that?? I highly doubt it.

And in more recent years we've had the endings of shows that were considerably better than Wwdits at handling continuity and character development (like, say, The Umbrella Academy), still ending like shit. In much, much worse ways than Wwdits (which at its core was always meant to be a silly comedy, and I'm sorry to say it but some of yous were treating it wayyy too seriously).

What I'm getting from all this negativity, is that some people dislike/hate the ending because it wasn't what they had expected, some because they have a warped or absent sense of media literacy (no, nandermo wasn't ""queerbaiting"", you guys need to learn the meaning of some words) or were expecting way too much from it (no, a secondary character that served as a punchline 5 years ago wasn't going to make a comeback in the finale).

It makes it disappointing for you, yes, but doesn't necessarily make it bad. I can't talk about my own opinion on the episode itself as I've not seen it yet, but honestly, I know it's not THAT bad.

[elliesgaymachete]

I think Game of Thrones damaged collective expectations for television media and is the reason for the decline of full length low budget seasons.

We all know HBO is high budget cable even before, but Game of Thrones was arguably the first time one of their shows became so massively, globally successful. People who had never consumed fantasy media in their lives were watching Game of Thrones. It became mainstream culture rather than nerd culture so your coworkers weren’t going to make fun of you for liking it. In fact, your coworkers probably watched it too.

Before this the only TV shows that achieved anywhere close to this level of popularity (and even then were not nearly as popular as Game of Thrones) were network shows, usually TV comedies. These were low budget and had full seasons! Things like HIMYM, Big Bang Theory, The Office. You either watched them or knew multiple people who watched them. Sometimes TV dramas also reached this level of popularity—Shondaland shows to name a few. Grey’s Anatomy, Scandal, How to Get Away with Murder. Even if you didn’t watch them, you had heard of them. These were also network shows. Low budgets, 22 episodes. Not to mention network television is FREE so it has the potential to reach a much wider audience than cable.

But Game of Thrones exploded into common popularity. Even people who didn’t watch much television watched Game of Thrones. And you know what they had because it’s an HBO show? Insanely high budgets and 10 episode seasons. They were basically making ten short movies released as TV seasons. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that itself, it worked well for Game of Thrones. The problem is how its affected television production since then. Sure shorter seasons and miniseries have existed before, but it feels like they’ve been in an upward trend ever since Game of Thrones

Every studio with a streaming service wants to create the next mega popular phenomenon like Game of Thrones so they copy the formula. Big budget, shorter seasons. Quality over quantity. But in doing so they neglected the main format television has used for quite a while. Network seasons are fewer and far between with smaller budgets and shorter seasons so they can invest more in the high budget shows. And a few of them were good, but somewhere along the way, they lost sight of the quality part and throw microbudgets at shows for six episode runs and are surprised when no one gets invested after only six episodes when we used to get 22 episodes and since no one’s watching anyway they just cancel it without giving the show a chance to find its legs. If it happens to get a lucky with a second season but there’s not EXPONENTIAL growth in viewership? Cancelled. Why is no one watching tv anymore? Why does no one want to pay for our streaming service that releases maybe one show you like every other year? Why why why they ask when they ruined a perfectly good formula and make things less and less accessible

[a-chaotic-dumbass]

i hate the idea of sansa ending up as this cold ice queen when through out the books one of her defining characteristics has been kindness. kindness to dontos when joffrey wanted him executed, kindness to the woman with the baby during the riot, kindness to an injured lancel despite cersei's words, kindness through warning margaery of the type of person joffrey is, kindness to sandor clegane and sweetrobin in the vale. sansa even says that once she was queen, she'd wish to rule with kindness when cersei encourages her to rule with fear during the battle of the blackwater. i cant imagine a world where grrm would genuinely go with the idea that only once you refuse love and warmth can you rule

[puppeteerpoet]

Sansa stark they’ll never make me hate you

[witchlingcirce]

I think about how there played by the same actor all the time bro

[seasononesam]

Stackednatural- 71/327

Slumber Party (9x04) October 29th, 2013

[nessberry]

"You can't hate this character because-" yall ain't real haters I'll hate whatever character i want and I don't care I'll hate a character so much it consumes my entire being just because I was annoyed the day they were introduced and they made a facial expression I dont fuck with or I didn't like they're tone in one (1) line character hating is half of media enrichment I fear

[captaincanonly]

none of these make sense. send help. i’ve gone woke…..

[danymst]

assembly distractions

sketch!!

[bloodyspector]

Shōgun getting renewed for multiple seasons when it was supposed to be a limited series while Dead Boy Detectives gets cancelled after one season is the clear example of everything that is wrong in the industry right now. Things either get milked so hard the audience eventually gets tired of the product (The Walking Dead and Grey's Anatomy) or it gets cut short because it didn't become the next Stranger Things.

[rynnthefangirl]

Just started (finally) reading the main ASOIAF series... why did nobody tell me that book!Jon was such a cutie pie?? Such a good boy?? That in his first POV scene he literally gets drunk, knocks over a serving girl and spills wine everywhere, and runs from the hall crying as everyone stares at him?? That he jumps for joy and spins Tyrion Lannister in a circle right in front of the men of the Night's Watch when he finds out Bran woke up??

Wtf did the show do to him, show!Jon is such a bland and boring character. Book!Jon I've only had for a chapter and a half, but if anything happens to him I will kill everyone in the series and then myself.

[kvtnisseverdeen]

The horrors I have just loosed cannot be for a crown alone. HOUSE OF THE DRAGON 2.04 “The Red Dragon & the Gold”

[tell-them-the-north-remembers]

I feel like whenever we talk about Aemon the Dragonknight's love and devotion for a particular sibling of his we focus on the wrong one. The singers (and asoiaf fans alike) always speak of how much Aemon loved Naerys and how he would do anything for her. Except he didn't, if he truly loved her more than anything he could save her from the hands of Aegon, and would be willing to pay the price for it. But he did not. He duelled for her honour once, people say, but the only time he did actually fight for her was when he too was accused of treason (adultery) with her. He didn't keep Aegon from impregnating her after she made it clear she didn't want to suffer any more pregnancies, he didn't attempt to whisk her away or just seperate them temporarily (as even Baelor did) even though he was supposedly SO in love with her. And he certainly did not die for her.

Aemon died for his brother. He certainly argued with Aegon (because he did hold affection for Naerys) but he never truly opposed him in a way that mattered. He protected him more than he did anyone, even when Aegon wasn't the king he was sworn to, even before Aegon was a king at all. And at the end of the day Aemon died for Aegon. He could die for Naerys, he could defend her from Aegon and become a kingslayer, a kinslayer too, to protect her. But he chose to protect his brother with his life and he quite literally died for him, leaving behind Naerys to continue suffering her husband's abuse on her own until it killed her.

Aemon the Dragonknight loved his siblings (as arguably most Targaryens do in sometimes screwed-up ways), he loved them in different ways perhaps, but one of them mattered to him more than the other, enough to die for. And it was the one that had been nothing but cruel and hateful to him all his life.

[hickeysgodcomplex]

The thing that pisses me off most about the Arya/Gendry ... "ending"(????) is that... these two people love each other. It was such a good mix of stony girl who only smiles for her dude who can hold his own but is also a huuugggeee goof.

Like, his little rant about not even knowing how to hold a fork. And him just gushing and saying he loves her and needs her with him. And she smiles at him. And kisses him.

And then she says what she says and it hurts me everytime. Not because it isn't true. But because... Gendry KNOWS that. He knows she's not a lady. He's always known that.

It just hurts my heart that the writers thought Gendry didn't see her? Or at least that... she thought he didn't? Because in that moment he wasn't asking her to be A lady.

He was asking her to be HIS lady.

And he would have accepted her however and whoever she was. Like he always had. With a twinkle of mischief in his eyes as he called her "milady", waiting to see that smile.

[izzy140105]

Me when I found out that dumb and dumber never wanted or intended for Jon to kill the Night King despite all the build up for it: