#this is an rcg episode and i just know glenn did this

[cosmoseinfeld]

also do you ever think about how in misses the boat, dennis didn't even want to be womanizer dennis or whatever, he wanted to be "cool guy" dennis.

[prettysymbiosis]

frank vs. russia

starting the episode in media res and the circular storytelling!! the writing in this episode is really good overall, just so clever and inventive and effective. go off megan

“you ARE ready. everything you need is already inside you” sunny is ready to do a gay, gay-ass love story you guys. the gays are already inside it

titling it frank vs. russia when that’s clearly the b-plot? because we’re burying the lead? because we’re telling lies???

the denny’s shirt…

“aren’t you like 60?” misogyny is so sad 😞

dennis ANYBODY can get a guy to bang them ONCE reynolds

everyone wants dennis’ help but who will help dennis? :(

when mac says “it’s VERY romantic” dennis literally smacks the counter like… yikes

“one day he will and it is going to be hot” - I choose to believe this means that rcg think old man yaoi is hot and they are excited to show it :)

sunnyblr university is producing so many brilliant scholars who understand the significance of the beads as a metaphor for queerness and whether the audience is in or out and how it doesn’t matter because the queerness is all the way in and as of this episode it’s been turned up to full blast and leads us to a resounding victory. I’m just rehashing what others have said but I wanted to make sure I include it with my notes from this episode because it really is such a central idea and yet one that can be so easily missed by someone who isn’t reading the show like this... ugh the duality of sunny will never cease to confound me

dee calling mac out like yes bitch get his ass!! (so to speak)

uncle fucking jack walks in saying “they dropped all those charges weeks ago” - playdate EW - “I don’t– I don’t have any ice cream” - “shut UP dude, that’s gross, man”

charlie is so PRECIOUS in his little outfit and glasses

is he schizophrenic? I wonder if that will come up again or if it was just a throwaway joke

violent heterosexual shushing from dennis

the backing track of the sinned system/date scene is “in the hall of the mountain king” and it’s just so fucking classic sunny and so perfect

how did mac show patrick that he needed his power? and how did he engage physically?? we need to know these things!!!

kaitlin’s whole performance in the date scene is so fucking good

“the person who made him feel powerful, but also powerless.” the macdennis of it all is truly overwhelming sometimes

 the person whose validation he’s been seeking his entire life :/

“it worked” jesus christ mac

“well yeah but listen, the dennis system is a system for getting a woman. this is a system for getting a man, and that’s why sinned is actually dennis backwards!!” when I first watched this episode I was high as balls and sick with anticipation and this whole bit nearly pushed me over the edge. I mean he basically just straight up says that it’s bad for him to like men (sin) after explaining a tried-and-true system for getting them???

and then mac and dee are like “what are the chances??” and dennis is like HIGH >:( because they don’t see it. they don’t see it even though it’s been plain as day the whole time :(

dennis: “I’m still buzzin from last night” 👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀

AND I HAVE TO BE WITH HIM oh baby boy I pray you will be

the nastiness in dennis’ voice when he says “well no, see, that’s the thing – johnny doesn’t love you. he doesn’t even like you.” glenn I’m scared of you

“they ARE my favorite” he wanted mac to realize :( and yes the crabs are deeply metaphorical

“yeah, because I AM johnny” “then who’s dennis?” “what do you mean?!” “well if you’re johnny, then who– who’s you?” one of the best sunny exchanges of all time!!!!!!!! I cannot overstate how much I love this dialogue. it just captures so much about them so succinctly go off megan!!!!!

“I can’t engage with you on this right now” great delivery rob, so funny

does dennis want to control frank like a pawn bc he felt like that’s what frank did to him? or he’s just frustrated at mac and wants a situation he feels in control of?

kaitlin’s “... yeah” when dennis asks if dee has more pills is just so funny I keep remembering it and laughing randomly

“we’re gonna need to turn the lights out.” GLENN I’M SCARED OF YOU

the POV Being Frank throwback! I love the tossing of the clothes and the blackness and the sound of the door, cool little sequence

charlie’s such a good cheerleader 🥹 his little point is so funny

do you ever wonder what danny devito might be doing with his career if he wasn’t pretending to be split in half by giant vibrating anal beads on it’s always sunny in philadelphia??

“you don’t have to do this” this one speaks for itself I think.

dennis and uncle jack, two sexual deviants having a laugh in the van :| (also the van situation is so classic sunny obvs)

mrs. mac saying “nice” god there are just so many hilarious little character beats in this episode

“I DON’T KNOW HOW ELSE TO TELL YOU!!!” :( what’s in the texts rcgm

macdennis fightin :)

the full-blast alarm sound effect just gets me every time like to me that is peak comedy

The Burning Heart by Survivor is kind of macdennis coded tbh… “It's a primitive clash venting years of frustrations / Bravely we hope against all hope / There is so much at stake” “Does the crowd understand?” “Though his body says ‘stop!’ his spirit cries ‘never!’ (omg) / Deep in our soul a quiet ember knows it's you against you” like sorry if this song was supposed to be for straight people but it’s not anymore

so there’s something there about what’s acceptable and going full blast. the mommy issues are now explicit. dennis is bisexual. and he chose to have a romantic and sexual relationship with mac while pretending to be someone else, to the point that mac was in love with this other version of him. and he was so mad mac didn’t realize that he actually played his hand and told him, and mac still couldn’t accept it, upsetting dennis further. wtf man these homos are INSANE

[charmac]

I really liked your answer to that last anon! I just got into this fandom (and macden) and it's the first one I've been in many years. I was still a teen when I was kinda obsessed with shows like spn and bbc sherlock, and after those I just can't help but think that I'm once again just reading too much into the choices of the writers etc :/ like I want to believe my own eyes but I'm afraid to lol

What you have to try to remember (and constantly remind yourself) is that Sunny isn't like any other show, it's not Supernatural relying solely on Network demos to stay alive, and thus constantly feeding into bait to draw views, it's not a writers room completely removed from the actors.

The heart and soul of the show is completely, from the ground up, Rob, Charlie, and Glenn, in almost complete control. So when you see things the actors do in the show and you think "ugh I'm reading into this just like Destiel, those looks mean nothing, this is just the actors playing it up for..." For what? They've been renewed through 18, they don't even really rely on bringing in a large audience, it's FXX. They make this show for themselves, the audience is just a bonus.

Shows like Supernatural have teams that are often separate, so when something is written it might not be acted as the writers intended, which might not be edited as the actors and writers intended, which is all overseen by the Creator(s) and Producer(s), who have different visions and intentions for their show, which is heavily guided by what The Network allows/approved and believes will bring in views. So what you see in Credits is like any 'normal' show: Created by X, Produced by Y, Written by Z, Top billed cast: A, B, C. What happens with long-running shows like Supernatural, is that all the players develop different ideas and attachments over time, so you'll end up seeing the actors play their characters (and thus relationships) in a way that's a little different from the writers writing it and what the creator(s) want and what ends up in post is some conglomeration of all of these ideas, then pushed out a certain way by The Network to hold their demo and draw views. So you "read into" what you're seeing, it's very much there in many forms, but it's being chopped at the throat and comes out disjointed. Because XYZ ABC all have different ideas and attachments and visions from each other and they have enough sway based on long-standing to (kinda) have their voice heard. You're not reading into something that doesn't exist, you're reading into something that exists but is being butchered and warped by conflicting visions and power. (Just Misha Collins opening his mouth post-SPN Finale is perfect proof of this, lol)

Now look at Sunny, it's not that. Episodes like Bowling are really great examples: you look at the credits and it's: Produced by Rob, Charlie, Glenn; Developed by Rob and Glenn; Created by Rob; Written by Rob, Charlie, Glenn; Top billed actors: Rob, Charlie, and Glenn. So what you're immediately affirmed is that there's very little disjoint even possible. And, not even credited, we know Charlie and Rob were heavily involved in editing and post production (per TASP, Glenn was in Hawaii when they did post on Bowling). So what you're seeing is ALL deliberate, as intended. They are acting out the script exactly as it was written because, they wrote it. And then it's edited exactly how they want it to be because, it's their show and they sat there in the editing room. The final product isn't some conglomeration of different teams with different intentions, it's RCG from breaking the idea in a writers room to approving the final cut of the episode. There's no conflict, your eyes are telling you exactly what the intention of every moment is.

(And per the Meg Ganz Argument: she was quite literally a fan of the show, hardcore Macdennis shipper when they brought her on in 12. Post filming Season 14, she was still tweeting about shipping them. You don't work as an EP, in the writers room, and as a director for a show for three full seasons (ONE BEING TWELVE) and walk away from S14 still hardcore pushing your ship if there wasn't way more going on behind the scenes than we even know.)

Welcome to Sunnyblr! Believe your eyes, trust the structure, appreciate the hints, knowing it's all very deliberate, and be certain RCG(M) know what they're doing, and definitely enjoy driving us mad with it all. We're in it for the long haul, there's just always so much preamble :)

[good-realtor-bad-realtor-dynamic]

First thoughts from just one watch under shitty circumstances with bad internet and worse sound:

RAMBLING FRANK vs RUSSIA THOUGHTS

I was very worried about this episode with how sacred the S5 DENNIS System episode is to us all. Didn't want a Thunder Gun 4 situation on our hands and thankfully they avoided it so hard! I think having the plot with Charlie, Frank, the mums, Uncle Jack and chess really helped out to make it feel more than a direct sequel.

SINNED -> DENNIS -> SINNED -> DENNIS — I'm so impressed with this. How did I, a wholeass Sunny fan, miss this for so long?! Three cheers to whoever came up with that inversion, really! Definitely something that happened in the writer's room and made everyone lose their shit for sure. I wonder who it was, could be Meg or another writer too, given how collaborative they all are!

And can I just say, Dennis the Restaurant Manager... oh how I love you so much! The Waitress is Getting Married is a personal favourite of mine and I wasn't expecting a bit of a redux of that whole situation.

I was so worried about all the "Mac getting a boyfriend and it being Ryan Reynolds" theories and I absolutely wanted none of that. Everyone had speculated it to death and it wouldn't have been fun anymore (not to mention I do not care for RR in my Sunny, I'm sure he's fine, but I don't need his and Rob's PR relationship filtering through into my dickandball show no I don't "find them cute" and I won't elaborate here anymore).

I know we'd guessed that Johnny could've been Dennis catfishing Mac, but it definitely felt like we were doing an Insane Fan Speculation more than anything — and for it to turn out to be correct! And in the best way, because we never could've seen the vibrating anal beads coming!! That's the best kind of "called it but it's still unpredictable".

It really broke my mind, this episode did. And don't even get me started on the Macdennis and queer Dennis of it all! As a longtime believer in Bisexual Dennis, I won so hard! All of us Queer Dennis Truthers won so fucking hard!

[Unpopular Take incoming] This is the first Sunny episode credited to Meg for writing that has felt so wholly "Classic Sunny" and super fuckin hilarious to me. I always appreciated her understanding of the characters and she's always a very solid writer, but this is the first time where I felt myself thinking ok, you she write RCG/Hornsby/Marder-Rosell/Chernins-level of an insane chaotic Sunny episode with multiple belly laughs and not just slightly Community-fied versions of the gang.

The closest her writing has felt like true Sunny to me before this was Dee Day, so I'm glad to see her grow and improve too, and I wonder if the podcast rewatch has helped in that regard! Must also help to have a classic S5 structure to play off in The D.E.N.N.I.S. System! (And ofc writing is collaborative, so well done to RCG and all the writers who pitched ideas and rewrites that ended up shaping this episode!)

I knew Heath Cullens directing meant a good chance of some interesting camerawork (and I've gotta say that even The Gang Inflates had some more dynamic shots than we've been getting in some of the later years and it's got to be the Cullens directing), but I wasn't expecting a whole visual callback to Being Frank! Loved it.

And the editing! The DENNIS System has always been great for cutaway gags and fun little inserts, so I loved seeing that carried out here with the cuts to Mac and Dee fucking up their dates and then finally pulling out the Magic Tissue of Mummy Issues (oh the potential for meta especially with the twins!). The pacing was so good!

Sunny pacing needs to feel like Mac crashing Dee's car into a wall while we are all Charlie watching it in real time and screaming when it's over.

Random strings of words because I'm too excited to be coherent:

Glenn's acting. His faces. His eyes. His range in this episode. Glacting. Juilliard. All the hits. All the big ones.

Mac and Dennis have canonically had sex in two different ways now, and yes, I'm including their sex tape/porn viewing sessions where they both masturbate together

Did Dennis pull out Mac's anal beads when he was asleep?

Vibrating fucking anal beads what the ACTUAL FUCK!

How many people did the gang drug again?

Danny DeVito with a vibrating asshole comedy acting 12/10 he's an international treasure for a reason

Dee stealing people's phones she's so stupid and bad at men. Never change Dee.

Uncle Jack though, pls change plz, I'm an IASIP loving degenerate so I laughed in horror at his creepiness ofc as I have since 1x7 but fucking hell man, can he be in his jail era already! Poor Charlie!

Hey, Charlie's got new America's just as we were promised on the pod

Oh I should make a post about everything we saw in this episode and that episode of the pod where they gave us all those hints, especially Meg talking about struggling with this cold open — added to the never-ending list of drafts and posts that will hopefully one day make it onto the blog yeah I'm lying to myself now

Parental issues everywhere this season, especially with the mums. Reynolds kids, I can't wait to lovingly put you under my microscope. Once I've rewatched this episode with good sound.

Also just in general, the SINNED system just says SO much about our babygirl's psychology, does it not? Why did so much of it sound like self-insert speeches, like he's been doing this to Mac or smt? Don't even talk to me about The Gang Chokes!

What does r/iasip have to say about— no, I'm in my happy place, I'm not even gonna go there.

Mrs Mac and Mrs Kelly watching TV together like that, they really are lesbian life partners.

Dennis blue shirt with top-stick between those buttons, my beloved. I am looking, respectfully.

And can we talk about the "opening the ketchup bottle" scene? We have to take about that scene! Dennis... he's ruining me... need to gnaw on him and suck on his fingers wait I'm browning out...

Sidenote: I love whenever the show references news stories which were super fucking big at a very specific time in a very specific niche, especially with my whole family being so chess-obsessed. The cheating scandals and anal bead… never thought I'd see a Sunny crossover but can't say I'm not loving the shit out of it!

[dennisboobs]

Yes! Someone who shares my opinion of New Wheels! I’d seen mostly positives for it around but I never liked it much for the exact reasons you said!

Oh I have.... definitely expressed my hatred for it. I was surprised by the results of the poll I did, and I've seen a lot of love for it too; rewatching I honestly can really only say Why. Why does this episode exist, and why does it play out like that. Like, surface level it's an alright episode, rewatching all of s13 I can maybe understand why people would say it's the best episode of the season, but it's just... perfectly exemplary of the weirdness of the entire season. I know RCG doesn't like having to deal with continuity in most seasons (s2 was an exception because they were trying to integrate Frank into the gang, and it ended up fucking them over bc the network reordered the episodes creating weird continuity errors) but there's a difference between basic continuity (adhering to previously established lore) versus writing a semi-continuous story that carries throughout the season. Glenn has talked before about preferring to keep the show more grounded rather than allowing it to be cartoonish (arguing against the inclusion of little things like adding SFX for Frank firing the gun in post when they hadn't planned for that in a scene, which means that there's a complete lack of reaction from people in the restaurant = unrealistic) and I have to wonder if it's a coincidence that for the seasons he wasn't in the writers room for, shit got. wild. I think at some point you have to draw a line and say, okay, there is no way in fucking hell these are real people anymore. Not that they haven't been getting away with absolutely despicable shit for years now, but it used to be that the designated straight man of a scene would at LEAST point out how fucked up something is, have some sort of objection, something to ground the show in reality and remind us that these characters are in the real world who could face consequences (injury, community service, arrest). I feel that's what missing from New Wheels. WE as the audience knows how fucked up it is for Mac and Charlie to kill a child, or for Dee to sleep with a minor, but to have Dennis, completely removed from the situation, not react with shock or horror, is...... a weird choice. Especially with how grounded his arc is, and how grounded HE is, relative to the rest of the gang in the episode. It feels off. Even if it was like, Mac and Charlie saying YOU DID WHAT? to Dee, and she and Frank doing the same back after hearing that they're unsure if they killed a kid. Zero judgement at all? Unlike the gang <3 They can generally recognize when the OTHERS pull something that's completely batshit,they just lack self-awareness when they're the one committing the acts yknow?? not always, but usually.

[macdenlover]

Wait, BOTH Marder and Rosell are back???!!! They weren't in the iasip writers' room for S13/14 afaik (am I mistaken?), not just Glenn, and Rosell WAS back for S15 (and we all know S15 >> S13/14). I didn't know how influential their ideas were for the tone and humour of Sunny until RCG started discussing S3 on the podcast. Yoooo... I'm low-key excited for S16 now! Can't wait for my lunch break so I can listen to the new podcast episode!!!

YES they’re both back!! i’m digging through the sunny wikipedia page rn they were both gone for 13-14, rosell was there without marder for s15, and marder was there without rosell for 10-12 but they haven’t teamed up for an episode since season 8. and some of my fav eps were the ones they paired up for i am SOOOO excited for season 16 goddd. mac and dennis break up is obviously my favorite but they also did the gang gets whacked, paddys pub worst bar in philadelphia, sweet dee has a heart attack, charlie kelly king of the rats and a lot more i’m too tired to type out but ANYWAY! a while ago rcg said something along the lines of their writing establishing the classic tone of the show early on and i can’t wait to see that come through again i missed it sooo much

[emberphantom]

Your history post is so fascinating to me as a foetus fan!!! Can we get a thing going where more of the IASIP fandom here does histories based on how they've perceived it? Btw are most fandom participants rn all pandemic/post-lockdown fans of Sunny (afayk)?

Ahahaha ty! Honestly the Sunny fandom in general is so fascinating. Like you can see remnants of the even older fandom if you go back far enough in the AO3 tag. MacDennis originally wasn't even that popular of a ship. iirc, CharMac was like the main ship of the fandom. Idk when the shift happened but that was obvi before my time. I wish i had the time to study it lol.

I would love to hear from others how they experienced that same time in the fandom as me. Literally I'm like Yo someone else take the mic...anyone? Please????? Hellooo????

Honestly I started like as kind of a lurker -- just RBing gifs and posts I liked. Then I started talking in the tags and interacting more with people which is not usually how I do things. Like i was FLOORED when at one point someone was like -- oh I consider you one of the main sunny blogs and I was like you--what!? Like girl that's insane to me.

I don't want to misrepresent anything either -- like I personally had so much fun during that time-- but one of the other factors that contributing to a lot people leaving was drama amongst ourselves. I stayed on the periphery of it bc again, not my style. But once people started to speak out against RCG and the shit they didn't like about certain episodes -- again all correct and valid as far as I'm concerned, people got fucking MEAN. Like the vocal folks started getting hate in their inboxes and on their posts and it just became hostile for a lot of people -- so they left.

Honestly I've stayed pretty active in the fandom since then -- as much as once could be. I don't create much content myself beyond and text post or a screen shot of a tweet or picture of Glenn here and there, so it was pretty dry here for a while. Post-June 2020 this place was a ghost town for a bit. Sunny Twitter kinda kept poppin' off but idk for me it wasn't the same. I just use the Bird App for different shite and it felt weird trying to make it a fandom space for me.

I did start getting a lot of my Sunny Asks (what i called all my messages about Sunny/MacDennis to keep track of them -- there's a whole tag of 'em) I think late 2020? So I guess yeah, that's a good indication of when things started up again. For me at least. s15 obviously also brought through more people and brought back some inactive peeps. During when s15 was airing and basically all of this year is when I started seeing more Sunny blogs pop up. I try to follow the ones posting consistently and about stuff relative to my interests where I can. So yeah, long-winded answer to your question, as far as I know, a lot of the Sunny fandom now is mostly people post-s14 airing and post-2020/2021.

[good-realtor-bad-realtor-dynamic]

This is a much better selection of FYC episodes than their Season 10 Emmy FYC!

The DVD contains Mac and Dennis Move to the Suburbs and The Gang Goes to Hell parts 1 and 2.

For Outstanding Writing, The Gang Goes to Hell*

For Outstanding Directing, Being Frank and The Gang Goes to Hell*

Nice! I can get behind these choices. Suburbs, Goes To Hell especially part 2, and Being Frank are all top-tier classics!

More thoughts:

Not sure why the DVD contains Suburbs and not Being Frank though. Is Suburbs for the acting nominations then? In which case, how the fuck did they watch that episode and pass on Glenn Franklin Howerton III?

*I hope by GGTH for writing and directing, they meant the entire two part episode and not just s11e9, when everyone knows part 2 when they're all locked together in the brig is the superior episode! (By far, imo.) And isn't tank-filling-with-water filming more technical and impressive for directing? However, the s10 Emmy FYC taught me that RCG are 60/40 at picking good episodes to submit, so they may have been stupid here.

If only they could've just sent in one of the parts and then jammed in Charlie Catches a Leprechaun, Frank Falls Out The Window, Chardee MacDennis 2 or just something else in there too to show off how good this season was! But I guess the voting bozos need "context" or whatever. Anyway...

IASIP S11 would've been eligible for the 68th Emmys in 2016, so I looked it up and here are all the shows and people that did get nominations:

They had a real hard-on for HBO in 2016.

Emmy "FYC" DVD Presentation for It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia (Season 11)

[bastardcatthings]

Some highlights from the sunny podcast

Episode two

(Warning. Some mentions of drugs, bipolar disorder and depression)

1) G : "I'm always sleepy" R: " yes I know I've known you for like a good... twenty years " SHUT UP IT'S MAC AND DENNIS

2) C:"it was two hundred dollars" G:" are you sure?" C:"Yeah we weren't five hundred dollar men yet"

3) the guys thinking the title JERKS is cute?!?!

4) Glenn listening to A-ha while stretching (G: "it's actually a great album")

5) the hilarity of RCG hating the name it's always sunny in Philadelphia and not knowing where it came from. Sunny is like a cluster of mold you can't get rid of. It always prevails.

6) but Charlie saying the fact that it's stupid and not premeditated is what makes it special so true king🥰

7) Charlie asking Spencer(the kid in Charlie wants an abortion) to spit in his face and not telling the director and being annoyed when he cuts. (Working with these guys must've been a nightmare)

8) Rob being quietly horrified in the background as Charlie and Glenn talk about how you should keep rolling a while even if someone breaks an arm

9) just the whole Benjamin buTTONS bit they're five year olds

10) "you are underestimating Brad Pitt as people always have. He could definitely play an 8 year old"

11) "we were both at the vending machine and you should've also gotten the chips and now you want a sip of my Fanta too? Get fucked"

12) Megan wrote that. Megan

Megan Megan Megan Megan wrote that

She's a woman she's a woman she's a w-

13) G:" but I did it. I did it because I'm a professional and-" R: *sighs* G: "don't sigh!!!"

14) Charlie voice: this is CrAAAAAAAAAAAAAzY

15) Rob weighing a 130 pounds and only drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes. Apparently he was a character from a dark academia book??

16) C: "that sounds like depression!?" G:"OH definitely"

17) Glenn having a "SPLASH" of bipolar apparently???

18) Megan not wanting to be included in the podcast. G:"She does not want to be exposed the way we are" C:"she knows this is career suicide"

Bonus

this episode brought to you by :

- G: "Coffee. FUCK YOU. but you guys... you're welcome"

- C: "cigarettes! Cigarettes..." R: "YOU'RE DEAD"

- C: "cigarettes! You know you want them. But you know we're BAAAAD" G: "Some of you can resist us and some of you are just gonna DIE" C: "Taking aunts and uncles since 1843"

- C: "cigarettes! Still cool"

- C: " cigarettes! The rituals nice!"

- G: "PORN! You love us. But you'll never admit it"

[measuringbliss]

Like is it really worth it to keep rewatching the show when I don't particularly enjoy it, for a video that might last 1-2 hours and won't bring me anything substancial?

There IS a lot of stuff to say about IASIP. The way it handled its one and only trans character over 6 seasons, the way it handled Mac's sexuality over 15 seasons, the barely-disguised "the network told us to be more PC" plot in the S15 premiere, the creation of the podcast as a dumbfoundingly successful attempt at cashing on the show's equally dumbfounding popularity, and I think you could also write a whole section on the game.

The game looks cute and it IS lovely to see all the references... except that it's all the game offers, references, the scenarii are just dumbed down versions of episodes which is understandable but also ultimately isn't very interesting. (I'm curious, did they add stories from S15 yet?).

You could also make a whole section about The Nightman, about the two main attempts at dramatic season finales. You could definitely mention the show's reluctance of getting into politics betraying its creators' views.

I think the most interesting part though would just be to do some sort of compendium of the fandom. Tendencies among fanfic writers according to current season, popularity of the show itself, the very different facets of the fandom on Reddit and Tumblr (the show was never popular on LJ)...

Overall there's a lot to say, I just can't be bothered to record myself speaking, do video editing and caption the whole thing.

Addendum 1: I think it'd also be interesting to do a small section on [I don't know what the heck this was about so let's just say I wrote something insightful, alright?]

Addendum 2: IASIP is (was?) a show that hardly takes sides in arguments, which is handy to not alienate your viewer base but it also means your show has nothing to say. Which is fine when it doesn't try to say anything like here (outside of vanilla "you can't say anything these days" the dudebro creators love to imply), not so much when your narrative implies it does have something to say but your message is muddled by bad, incoherent and cowardly writing and is this a way for me to rant on D*ng*nr*np* V3–of course it is. The fanbase more or less split in two sides after the game was released, with both sides interpreting the ending in opposite ways and being absolutely convinced they're right. God this game annoys me. Anyway! Reddit and Tumblr see the show under different lights and it's an interesting phenomenon but also, dear RCG and other occasional writers, guns are not something you can be neutral on. Or you don't care. Which is kind of an inconsiderate move? And not in the fun way? But honestly, we're talking about mostly white straightambiguouslybi (hello Glenn) American guys who're convinced NFTs are a cool thing and/or don't mind scamming their fans with them (Rob might be the only one to have displayed his interest in them, but don't think for one second that nobody else was aware of it). I don't expect any actual understanding of leftist ideas from them. Which is why Carmen's treatment is... surprising.

Anyway. I do have thoughts. I'm just not in a state where I can be bothered to do anything about them aside from random ramblings on Tumblr.

[lemonwrld]

Credit to ohbeeones for uploading the linked video from which I took the above screencap.

I’m pretty sure it’s been pointed out before about the balding Gollum vision board behind them and how obviously the Sunny Make-up Department used this for inspiration re. Dennis in s14.  (Sorry, I can’t find that post. If someone made that and wants me to credit them for that discovery, I will. Please just send the link.)

EDIT: pizzashakes made this discovery and kindly sent me the link! You all should check it out, it’s a great find. Also you can see the vision board way clearer there.

Anyway, do you think they are going to continue with this look for Dennis in s15? Part of me thinks it’s an interesting idea (”That’s what his soul looks like”, etc.) But then maybe Waiting for Big Mo was the conclusion of it?

Like, I don’t know if I 100% got that episode… but it clearly alluded to Dennis actually kinda being Gollum-like in his obsessive pursuit of “staying on top of the leaderboard and winning at the game” at the expense of actually enjoying his life. It concluded with him and the others seemingly understanding that they have to let go of this compulsive need to control everything and just try to live more freely and in the moment.

(Although it was also likely a reference to the creators and granting themselves the freedom to pursue their other projects. It also randomly turned into a psych-out about rcg ending Sunny, which they then made clear that they absolutely don’t intend to do. So yeah.. again not 100% sure if I added all the meta references together smoothly. I personally found it all to be a little bit jumbled.)

Nevertheless, my general take-away character-wise was that Dennis worked through some of his control issues with the support of Charlie and the others. He seemed in a better headspace by the end. S14 was him at his lowest in terms of physical appearance. And rcg clearly intended the audience to see that as a manifestation of his internal state as well.

I’m interested to see what Dennis looks like in s15. Is he going to look better / more like normal Glenn? Because part of me feels they didn’t fully complete that arc. Like, Dennis still has so many issues to deal with before he resolves anything about his identity or the way he lives his life (at least in my eyes).

But if you look on other sites like reddit, a lot of people didn’t even seem to link Dennis’ change in weight/physical appearance with a deliberate creative choice. I feel the general audience understood that Rob gained weight for s7 as a deliberate acting choice and in service to the show. I’m not so sure the general audience wholly understood that Glenn lost weight and was made-up to look quite sickly on purpose. And if they did note it, I’m not sure everyone understood exactly why… y’know?

Anyway, I’m interested to see where they go with Dennis in s15!!

[charmac]

We're coming down to the wire, really, and I'm not at all convinced Mac will be in Dennis' arc for DTAMHD (I think it's his self-reflection, coming to who he is moment, just like Mac and Charlie have had, he needs to go through it without them), but I want to just add my thoughts. (Because they all laughed at the tissue thing, especially Meg, which I've always thought was a little odd, until we got the Mommy Kink and Meg wrote the episode and LOL ok. Got it.)

Listening to the Podcast has been pretty interesting for a number of reasons, and reading this chain kinda lit something up in my mind. How long has The S.I.N.N.E.D. System been on the board?

It's something they've talked about again and again that they have way too many ideas than they can do in a season. And sometimes, things are on the board for awhile. Yk what? If I remember correctly, The D.E.N.N.I.S. System was a Season 4 plot, on the board for awhile, that got pushed to Season 5 (Glenn mentioned this bc they moved lots in between, and he only remembered the episode being discussed on the Season 4 lot). So when they go into a new season, there's always 'left over' or 'rolled over' ideas from previous seasons that they still want to execute.

And remember the infamous Christmas Pod? They fought about how many episodes to do the Ireland arc for (Rob wanted a full season, Charlie wanted max 2 episodes). Which means, reasonably, they definitely had more 'normal' episodes up on the board for S15 than they could work with (and they want 10-12 episodes a season, again FX only gave them 8, so imagine how many ideas and plots they just can't get to)

It just really makes me wonder: How long has The S.I.N.N.E.D. System existed for RCG(M)? How long has it been tossed around in the writers room for? At what point did it go up on the board and when was it fleshed out? How long did it sit around, waiting for the right time, waiting for a fitting B(A) plot? Honestly, since Meg wrote this one, I have a hard time believing it didn't float around for at least awhile.

Again, I'm not convinced this is about Macdennis. What I am saying is that they all weirdly found the tissue stuff funny. Like it was an inside joke they all got, but everyone watching was like 'Christ they're drunk, aren't they?' Because we had no idea. But now it is something. You watch this back, post FvR and laugh with them. Ahhaha, wow this could be a reference to Dennis' System. (And there's quite a few episodes of TASP that have weird 'was that a joke?' explanations to them now). Is it a clue of anything further to come? Who knows. But it is interesting, as TASP continues and the show continues, how many things we just don't know, just don't register as references or jokes or hints, because they're still on the board. Because we're watching everyone who is completely in the know have conversations and make vague references and jokes, while we're in the dark.

What else is on the board? I mean, we know RCG have all talked and agreed how they want the show to end. You think they've vagued at that plot before? Make a joke that doesn't even register with the audience about it? Honestly, probably.

okay this probably has been said before but i am manifesting this,

i believe macdennis will be canon in some sort of way in dtamhd, solely based on the pod a little while back.

this is clearly a subtle inside joke for the sinned system, the system for MEN. the man that wrote dtamhd says this to glenn.

and then both of them staring at rob afterwards? like? the hints are all there, folks

mac WILL ask dennis if he needs a tissue.

[gubler-garbage]

wait sorry if this is a dumb question but when/where did charlie say the stuff about "gender neutral stuff" (like was it in a podcast ep)? if you don't remember that's totally fine, i was just curious.

On the most recent podcast ep he was doing like a campaign advisor bit and he was like "you gotta say folks now, can't say boys and girls" which like on its own really isn't anything but in an earlier ep he made a similar comment about not saying ladies and gentlemen (sorry don't remember the ep) and like in both moments he didn't really make any other comment about it being positive or negative he just kinda said it as part of a bit. The second one especially hit me as like him making fun of politicians engaging in performative forms of activism and trying to be inoffensive as a form of manipulation but he's using discourse surrounding gender neutral language as a short hand without understanding any of the genuine discourse surrounding gender neutral language and especially how these sorts of jokes contribute to harmful narratives that impact non-binary and GNC folks. Idk man, as usual rcg can't stay in their lane but I personally don't see it as a reflection of any animosity towards those groups. It's the sort of thing that made me so nervous about the podcast cos it's the sort of half baked joke that would never make it into an episode, I feel like especially now they understand the necessity for them to take into account the impact of their show and it's reach as an insanely popular tv show but with the podcast they aren't filtering themselves the same way or really understanding that they are like one of the most popular podcasts right now and they need to be a bit more responsible with their platform. Like Glenn, Rob and meg might know that he doesn't mean anything by it but as the audience we don't know his heart like that lol, I think with the show they really understand that now and really take that into account but the podcast is a very different medium so I'd like to hope it's growing pains but idk we'll see, they're still just a bunch of white, cis, straight dudes who make an insane amount of money so I wouldn't blame anyone who isnt willing to give them any goodwill on this.

[80alleycats]

Dee Day Thoughts and Analysis

Preface: For those who don’t know, I’m a homoromantic asexual woman of color (mostly black).

Anyways, unlike many folks on Tumblr, I did not have too much of a problem with this episode. It did feel kinda..”eh”...and it could have been much better, but I had some laughs and laughed more with this episode than last week’s episode.

Here are my thoughts on the controversies of the episode. They might help some hate the episode and/or RCGMegan less:

1. Yellow/Brown Face – When I first saw those costumes I was like “Oh, we’re doing that again.” But it didn’t surprise me too much. This has been a part of the show for a long time and the racist caricature characters are “old” characters (i.e. known to the audience and not new caricatures created for shits and giggles), so I’m kind of shocked that people are so shocked by this.

I love RCGMegan, but RCGMegan are just…white as fuck. As a person of color, my standards are low for white people. (I HATE that this sounds racist but y’all know what I’m talking about) Like, I can’t even be mad about it. I’m just glad that there were attempts™ to point out the racism and the shittiness of Dee’s characters, which is something they’ve always done as well.

I think RCGMegan really meant well. It’s PURE SPECULATION but it’s possible that that’s why they hired Pete Chatmon, a black man, to direct the episode. White people sometimes think that if they add a person/people of color to their group and they don’t say “PLEASE DON’T DO THIS THIS IS FUCKING DUMB” what they are doing is okay.

And even though this is PURE SPECULATION on my part, I think RCGMegan’s wellmeaningness is one of the reasons that Pete Chatmon chose to do the job and posted on Instagram that he had a good experience working with RCG and co.

I think RCGMegan were attempting to be “silly classic hijinks” Sunny but also “woke” Sunny but they are…white as fuck and sometimes just do not “get” it. (I get the vibe from interviews that they mentally/emotionally separate the show from themselves and from reality.) I hope they learn to chill out with the yellow/brown/red face one day because, even ignoring the racism issue, it’s SO BORING, but I don’t expect them to because…they are white as fuck. Some white people figure it out and stop doing awkward shit. But some just…don’t. Especially when they have a long history of doing questionable things.

For a person of color to be a fan of this show, we/they have to accept the nature of this show or just stop watching it. Those are the only real choices and both choices are valid.

I’ll admit that I think the “Asian driver” joke was actually somewhat funny because the purpose of the joke was to highlight the phenomenon of white people acting like they aren’t racist when they actually are and are too stupid and delusional to realize it (i.e. benevolent racism). I love attempts™ at highlighting benevolent racism because of the subtle and insidious nature of it.

__

2. Predatory Gay Mac – I get where people are coming from, but I feel like Mac’s homosexuality wasn’t the joke. I feel like the joke was that Mac was being a goofy idiot who happens to love Dennis, but can’t always express it properly. (example: Mac trying to get Dennis to get on stage with him so he could maybe kiss him…which is the kind of harebrained scheme you’d expect from a goofball 1st grader with a crush and not a full-grown 40 year old man)

Mac’s behavior in this episode was similar to Charlie’s messy over-the-top behavior towards the Waitress in previous episodes.

There was also the dual joke of Mac trying to “one-up” Charlie and so veering into accidental innuendo territory. (example: Mac repeating the comment Charlie said to Dennis about wanting to get in Dennis’ pants)

Also, it’s canon that Mac is often gross when it comes to sexuality in general and I think they were playing with that as well (example: the social network episode where Mac asked the distraught woman about where to find her leaked nude photos).

Everyone in the gang is gross when it comes to sexuality. I feel like a lot of fans forget that Dennis and Dee are canon rapists who usually rape the opposite sex (and Dennis has literally sexually assaulted Mac before even though he considered it a prank). Being an equal member of the Gang, I’m not surprised the writers decided to pass the baton to Mac this episode and even then Mac’s behavior in this episode was fairly tame (in the context of this show LOL).

And FINALLY, even though Dennis protested Mac trying to get them to kiss, I never got the vibe that Dennis was extremely uncomfortable. I think it was just supposed to be a typical “Dennis is annoyed at Mac because Mac is being stupid” reaction. Mac gets on Dennis’ nerves sometimes, but Dennis loves and accepts him and all his weird and stupid behavior. I don’t believe it’s even possible for Mac to make Dennis extremely comfortable. Like, these two are pretty much a hivemind…

__

3. Charlie and Dennis Kiss Scene - I TOTALLY GET THE DISCOMFORT WITH THIS. And while the second kiss was actually a surprisingly good kiss (Charlie and Glenn can ACT), the scene wasn’t really funny. It was just like “Why? What am I supposed to be getting from this?”

One criticism I’ve seen is that the scene was saying two men kissing is gross (i.e. homophobia). But I don’t think that was the purpose. It honestly reminded me of the awkward attempted kiss scene between Mac and Dee when they were playing characters in one of the lethal weapon episodes.

Another criticism I’ve seen is that Dee (who, as we know, raped Charlie) forced two child abuse victims to kiss. VALID CRITICISM. But when it comes to the characters: they just don’t give a shit. Charlie still hangs out with Dee and considers her a friend (which is COMPLETELY different than how he sees Uncle Jack). Dennis loves her and hangs out with her. Notice that they were more concerned with coming across as homophobic (which is so, so stupid but typical of them) and they hated that they had cheese breath.

And keep in mind that even though it was Dee Day and they were “supposed” to do what she says, they didn’t have to. They treat Dee like garbage 364 days of the year with little remorse and she always come back to them. I feel like the implication is that they CHOSE to do the kiss, considered it gross but didn’t consider it a big deal, and would not compare it to their child abuse experiences.

Dee’s behavior analysis: The previous season’s Mac/Charlie/Frank orgy with the Dennis doll that she watched permanently fucked her up. Like, she knows she’s making the Gang uncomfortable, but she’s lost the ability to comprehend how abnormal her behavior is. Boundaries are gone in her mind. In her mind, she’s simply teasing them and they’ll be fine no matter what happens.

I know people identify with the characters because of their personal experiences and I get that. I get that people have strong feelings about these characters and it’s totally understandable and valid. But I think we have to be careful not to project too much on the characters and instead try to keep in mind how the characters are instead of how we think they are. Like, It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia has a ton of dark elements, but it’s a relatively upbeat show that often doesn’t take itself too seriously.

This is PURE SPECULATION but I got the vibe from the second kiss that “someone” (possibly Megan?) wanted to do a CharDen scene but needed to do it in the spirit of IASIP (awkward situations + the Gang willing to do anything if they are passionate enough about it) and that scene was the result. It’s also possible that it was the result of some kind of RCG “in-joke” that they didn’t realize might not translate very well on the screen to certain audience members.

At the end of the day, I think it was just supposed to be a goofy “lolwut the Gang is so wacky” scene and it’s not meant to be psychoanalyzed the way certain things on the show are.

 __

4. Dennis Without His Make-Up – I get people’s concerns about this. But the show has occasionally made fun of Dennis’ self-esteem issues concering his looks throughout the show, so this is nothing new. I feel that the scene was designed to make you feel sorry for Dennis, but also it was supposed to just be classic Sunny. Like him hitting on the congresswoman wasn’t just funny because he looked “off,” but because he just kept saying weird and awkward shit to her (similar to the scene in Season 13 where he was trying and failing to hit on the fantasy baseball woman). 

And keep in mind that the rest of the Gang kept reassuring Dennis that he looked fine even after the scheme, which was sweet. The same cannot be said about Dee. She’s received a lot more abuse from the Gang and only scraps of affection and reassurance from them to the point where she always lights up when they show her basic kindness. If Dee (and we) can handle Dee’s abuse, Dennis (and we) can handle Dennis’ abuse. And, as mentioned above, he did not have to remove his make-up. He chose to do it and he chose to deal with the consequences of that. But he’ll be fine.

 __

5. There was not enough focus on Dee – 100% agree. Nothing else to add. LOL.

[dennnisreynolds]

people who hate on its always sunny because its “problematic” misunderstand the show as much as those stupid reddit guys who think dennis has no feelings and refuse to aknowledge mac is gay

[macden]

iasip seasons rated by how much the gang Performs

season 1: because it was the first season, rcg were not yet ready to fully embrace their theater kid selves. disappointing lack of performance unless you count “boys are out tonight, huh?” but I do not because dennis is just like that. 0/10

season 2: limited performance. the gang makes an offensive video to terrorize their israeli neighbor (the nature of which docks performance points), dee and artemis do street acting. charlie sings both “I got the good lord going down on me” and “rock flag and eagle” but neither of these are particularly notable as the only audience is members of the gang. 1/10

season 3: it is clear that rcg realized that they were staying on air and began to embrace their passion for performance. this season gifts us with chemical toilet as well as the iconic first rendition of “dayman” (while both from a terrible episode, they get bonus points for the intensity with which glenn displays his slutty bottomness). mac displays his sick karate moves and pretends to go down on dennis. charlie shows everyone the white hot cream of an eighth grade boy with a fully choreographed dance. the first season with true performance. 5/10

season 4: the season begins with a lack of performance, picking up with mac and dennis self-inserting themselves as sodomites in their colonial america story. however, in the last episode rcg do what may well be the most iconic episode of sunny with the nightman cometh. between “tiny boy,” “troll toll” “dayman,” and charlie’s proposal, this episode provides a full performance in the form of a musical. extra points are added by the fact that rcgkd performed the nightman cometh as an actual live musical on tour afterwards. 9/10 thanks to the nightman cometh.

season 5: charmacden perform their birds of war song in which glenn demonstrates yet again that he has in fact ridden dick. arguably hugh and vic count as a performance as well. dennis and dee both briefly are in an m night movie. overall mediocre amount and quality of performance. 4/10

season 6: technically this has the first mention of lethal weapon but that one doesn’t even count because of the horrible nature of the entire thing. dee performs for some high schoolers. overall disappointing lack of performance. 1/10

season 7: arguably their most performative season not only in quantity but also quality. frank reynolds’ little beauties includes not only the opening number with iconic gay outfits and dancing, but also dee’s “moms suck” song and charmacden joining in with the yankee doodle performance. dee plays the role of a grieving mother to scam her way out of getting audited, assisted by dennis putting chili pepper in her eyes. the season ends with the gang’s revenge of performing at their high school reunion which gifts us not only with their elaborately choreographed vision of their dance, but also the realistic one that ended up happening. excellent content 10/10

season 8: not much in the way of singing, entire lack of dancing, a couple acting moments. dennis pretends to be brian lefevre along with dee and mac as prudence and vic. dennis sings wind beneath my wings to mac in front of an entire restaurant which adds a bonus point for being gay. 1.5/10

season 9: this season brings about some iconic performances but also some regrettable ones. dee performs stand up, charlie sings his paddy’s pub song, charlie performs the ever-iconic go fuck yourselves which in itself is worth several points, the gang practices for their boyz ii men audition, the gang performs motown philly for some hospital staff. unfortunately this season is also home to lethal weapon, which objectively should add performance points for being a full movie but I’m in charge here and I say it takes away points. overall pretty solid season with a downfall in the racism. 8/10

season 10: no performances. sad. 0/10

season 11: meh performance-wise this season. dee acts in a smut film, frank appears as the iconique ongo gablogian, mac discovers his passion for musical theater on the cruise ship. 3/10

season 12: begins strongly right off the bat with an entire musical episode, showcasing that rcg truly do the most in writing, learning choreography, and performing musical numbers whenever possible. dennis and charlie strip, unfortunately. dennis gives a horribly acted performance in which he pretends to be heterosexual and not deeply in love with mac in the finale. 9/10 for the musical episode alone.

season 13: starts off with no performance only for the finale to give us rob mcelhenney’s gift to the gays, a beautifully choreographed 5-minute coming out dance sequence that I still cannot watch without crying. rob said gay rights and wanted us to know we’re appreciated and so he did the absolute most by getting into crazy shape and training for months to learn ballet and then did That. mac finds his pride was unspeakably beautiful and profound and shows not only how much rob loves the gays, but how much he loves to perform. 1000000/10