#this is a save point if you're reading the comics - take a break

[harlivycentral]

Queer Identity in Poison Ivy (2022-)

I want to talk about the way the ongoing Poison Ivy series uses her queerness to deepen her character, exploring tensions between her tie to humanity versus the earth, her resistance to confining systems, and her problem with confrontation.

Under the cut cause I have a lot to say!

Ivy has been around since the 60s, and she was obviously not intended as a queer woman then. She was portrayed as a femme fatale, and her relationships with men were not usually ones of mutual respect. Instead, we saw Ivy weaponizing her sexuality against men in order to get what she really cared about (in early comics, that was wealth, which we later saw evolve into a concern for the planet). For example, in her earliest appearance (Batman #181 in 1966), we see her controlling Batman through a poisoned-lipstick kiss:

In her current iteration, this relationship to men/power/sexuality has evolved in interesting ways. I would consider her current iteration to have started with her storyline in Batman (2016) #41-43, Everyone Loves Ivy. I say Everybody Loves Ivy because I think that was when DC realized her character had been written in a lot of conflicting ways (in part because she had never had an ongoing solo series at that point, so got written as a side character in different series by many different writers) and started trying to give her a coherent characterization. You can read my master post summarizing that journey here, if you're interested.

In Everybody Loves Ivy, we see her at perhaps her most powerful. It's the culmination of her pheromone powers: she is able to use them to make everybody on the planet in love with her (except for Batman and Catwoman, who manage to get themselves an antidote before she takes full control of them).

As is typical with Ivy, this "love" she instills is a power grab: she intends to control everyone's actions so that they stop harming the planet. It's not a true, interpersonal connection. However, while she initially has Harley under her control, Batman (rightly) tells her that she isn't really controlling Harley that deeply, that she doesn't really want to be controlling Harley:

As we eventually see, Batman is able to break Harley out from under Ivy's control. Harley is the one who gets Ivy to let go of control of everyone else, too, by asking Ivy how she's doing and taking genuine care of her. Ivy's love for and interpersonal connection with Harley outweighs her need to weaponize her sexuality, her need for control. It brings her back to her humanity and makes her realize she doesn't want to save the planet at the cost of everyone else's free will.

In the fallout from this storyline, Ivy dies and is reborn, and we first see the new Ivy in the limited series Poison Ivy & Harley Quinn, in which Harley and Ivy are on the run from Woodrue. This sets up a theme that the current run of Poison Ivy is dealing with: Ivy running from her problems. But, again, Harley is the one to tether her to humanity.

In the Batman storyline where Harley & Ivy are finally made a canonical couple (Fear State), we see a sort of repeat of Everybody Loves Ivy. We're told Ivy has grown vines into the foundation of all of Gotham and could take the city down at any moment. She is convinced not to when Harley talks her down, though. Again, she loves Harley so much that she is able to extend that love to greater humanity and decides not to destroy them. We see the tension for Ivy between her want to use her unrestrained power to completely overturn corrupt systems with the reality of the harmful impacts the use of her powers will have on individual people.

The other love interest she has in the lead-up to her solo series is Bella. Bella is actually Ivy's ex-girlfriend, but we get the story of their past in James Tynion IV's awesome single-issue backstory for Bella, which also establishes the first coherent backstory for Poison Ivy that we have in this current iteration of her character. Her solo run ended up expanding on but not contradicting any of Tynion IV's version.Bella narrates the issue, and we see Ivy's relationship to both Bella and Harley to be quite lovely:

Above, we see her spend a "beautiful" summer with Bella. Later, when she is imprisoned, her relationship with Harley is presented as a lifeline for them both:

In contrast, we see Woodrue's exploitive relationship with Ivy. He's her professor who ends up doing experiments on her against her will, and we are explicitly told that she never loved him:

We also see her relationship to Batman portrayed as something very much outside of the flirty, femme fatale model it had in previous decades:

Given this backstory (and the fact that we have only ever seen her romantically/sexually involved with women since at least 2016), I personally interpret Ivy as a lesbian in her iteration. (They've never confirmed her sexuality as either lesbian or bi, so it's open to interpretation.) However you interpret her sexuality, her relationships with women are shown in clear contrast to her relationships to men in this comic. Her relationships with men are used to emphasize the harmful potential of power differentials and rigid systems.

Ivy's relationship with Bella is shown in contrast to her relationship with Woodrue. Ivy's relationship with Bella is about being in tune with her embodied self and following her desires. She connects to her "animal self," seeing this queer relationship outside of societal lenses which might condemn it. In contrast, her relationship with Woodrue is very much informed by the academic system in which they are working, and misuses his power within that system to coerce Ivy into an abusive relationship.

When Woodrue's experiments on Ivy ironically enable her to break free from her relationship with him, she recognizes and begins to fight the larger systems that enabled his interpersonal harm of her. However, then Batman comes in, stopping Ivy from fighting those systems and instead putting her in prison. As Ivy was dehumanized on an interpersonal level during her relationship with Woodrue, she is dehumanized on a system level in the prison system. But, again, we see her relationship with Harley in contrast to how Batman and the carceral system treat Ivy. We're specifically told that their love is borne from Ivy recognizing the way Harley has been abused like she was, and we see how both women help each other develop a sense of self that people in power and the prison system would rip away from them.

When Ivy's solo comic started, it continued to explore how individuals can hold strong against destructive systems. Ivy is shown as being outside a lot of systems in her solo comic. In Poison Ivy #10, for example, she's opposed to the capitalist system which drives the destruction of the earth:

I think this is very tied to her backstory, which shows her (whether you interpret her as lesbian or bi) as very resistant to/outside of the system of heterosexist patriarchy. We know from her backstory that she was abused by Woodrue, and that she sees Batman as another man who would try to use his power to keep her within systems she'd rather not confine herself to.

With the current understanding of Ivy as a queer woman who values overturning unjust systems, I interpret her backstory of as a "femme fatale" in earlier comics a little differently. To me, I read it as: Ivy is abused by specific men and systems as a whole because of her vulnerabilities (as a queer person and a woman). Her means of fighting back against this abuse is to sharpen her perceived weaknesses into a weapon. She leans into almost a caricature of femininity and uses it to manipulate men that might otherwise hurt her, either interpersonally or through their participation in oppressive systems.

However, this means of fighting back against the system doesn't allow room for Ivy to be her authentic self. She performs an idealized femininity for the male gaze, and--as we saw above in Everybody Loves Ivy--she can get tunnel vision on her end goal (of saving the planet, of overturning oppressive systems) at the expense of leaving herself any breathing room. In Everybody Loves Ivy, she was almost willing to sacrifice the chance for both herself and everyone else on the planet to have any sort of authentic relationship.

In her solo comic, we see a new iteration of those same impulses in Ivy. She isn't a femme fatale in this series--in fact, I don't thinks we see her almost (if ever?) weaponize her sexuality against men. Usually, she just threatens them with violence. Still, we see her at the start of the series willing to give up her personhood--her very life--in order to save the planet. She's cut herself off from her relationship with Harley and tries to keep herself from forming any new attachments on the road. Instead of leaning into what society expects of her, she's operating outside of society completely, ready to kill everyone and bring it all to the ground. But the effect is the same: she is completely cut off from what she as an individual might need or want, from room for any kind of authentic, interpersonal love. She want to be all plant, connected to a revitalized nature, and free from her human needs.

However, we start to see cracks in this stone-cold facade pretty early into her comic. First, in Poison Ivy #4, she takes on a temporary shipping job, and we see her come to the aid of her coworker, Jesslyn, after learning Jessyln's boss is sexually harassing her:

She then sleeps with Jesslyn:

I think it's important that her connection with Jesslyn, like we saw her initial connection with Harley, is borne out of a recognition of the ways they have both been abused by men in power. I think Jesslyn reminds Ivy of her own origins, that part of what initially drove her to try to overturn human society is the ways it cut her off from meaningful relationships (Woodrue luring her away from her relationship with Bella). Ivy reconnects with the part of herself that wants--not just her grand, moral wants but her small, human wants. She starts to question if there isn't something worth saving.

Say what you will about Janet, but her introduction in the series is a pivotal point in Ivy reconnecting with her human side. In Poison Ivy #8, we see her first start to really care about Janet's fate:

She ends up sleeping with Janet in issue #10:

Which she immediately regrets:

I think Ivy has two modes: either confronting everything head on, with a singular, grand goal in mind, or running from her problems. Ivy isn't good with nuance: she doesn't seem to really know how to go after saving the earth in a way where she can still allow herself any of her own identity and needs. When she starts to feel the cracks in her determination to kill all of humanity with her spores--when she starts to realize that this will mean killing innocent people like Jesslyn and Janet, people she might learn to care about, if she gives herself any breathing room--her instinct is to run away.

She doesn't run away literally this time, but I think she runs away figuratively in sleeping with Janet. She doesn't giver herself time to think about what this will mean for her relationship with Harley, about what this will mean for her relationship with Janet--she just does it. She's been denying her own personhood for so long that she sort of swings the other way, indulging in whatever she wants in the moment with no plan at all in mind.

Keep in mind that she's also just reunited with Harley, and Harley has always been the one who most re-grounds Ivy. It's a very re-connective experience for Ivy. Harley shows Ivy proof that she can still bring green things to life, not just kill people with spores. She then urges Ivy not to punish herself:

I think this reconnection with Harley overwhelms Ivy, almost, and contributes to her decision to sleep with Janet. Harley has always been the one to pull her back from the brink, and I think part of Ivy doesn't want that. She doesn't want to care about anyone. She wants to be able to save the planet without caring about the costs along the way, whether to herself or others. So I think she gives in to a bit of a self-destructive impulse, maybe even trying to blow up her relationship with Harley a bit, although we obviously see later that they work through it.

We see her work through things with Harley and literally confront her demons, defeating Woodrue and the fungal zombies. Just as she's working to find some sort of balance--a way to be in relationship with Harley, to be friends with Janet, to care for plants and humans at the same time--we see an ecoterrorist organization hold her up as their patron saint.

Now, I am suspicious about where the writers might go with this plotline, as her ecoterrorism has been pretty central to her character for a while. But I'm willing to see how it plays out, since I think an interesting point is being made that these people are dehumanizing her--in a different way than Woodrue and Batman and the prison system, sure, but by making her into an idol, they're stripping her of the nuance she's worked so hard to gain over the course of her series. Ivy's backstory shows her realizing how those with power can so easily manipulate it for abusive ends. Ivy's had power in the sense of her actual superpowers (lol) for a long time, but the idolization of this ecoterrorist group gives her social power in a way I think she's not accustomed to. She's a loner, and I think she associates the kind of power these people are putting in her hands with abuse. I think she's terrified that she'll mess up and hurt someone. She does not want or know how to use the kind of power they're giving her.

I'm also willing to see where the re-introduction of Bella goes. I do hate that there's clearly a mandate from DC editorial to keep Harley and Ivy apart. However, seeing as it's probably not coming from the creative team of the Poison Ivy team itself, I'm hopeful they'll do interesting things during Harley's absence. I love Bella as a character, and I think Ivy's instinct to fix their initial conflict with a kiss is in character for her. It's a bit of falling back to her old ways--of leaning into that femme fatale mode of from her past, weaponizing her sexuality to get what she wants, which is for Bella to make the ecoterrorism idealization of her go away.

I think it's a bit of a lot of things. I think it's a bit of Ivy wanting to reconnect with Bella on a personal level, to remind both herself and Bella of how they first fell in love just as two people, when they now find themselves meeting more as two political players navigating unjust systems with different methodologies in mind. I think it's a bit of that "run away" instinct, of giving in to what she wants in the moment to avoid having to confront all the complicated realities of what Bella coming back into her life (and in this way) means. If the writers continue to tease out all these threads in an interesting way, I'm still hooked.

This isn't to say I unquestionably love all the writing for this series. I find Janet annoying. I'm worried DC editorial is trying to soft-launch a harlivy breakup without the backlash, and that we won't see Harley and Ivy on the page together in any meaningful way for a long time. I'm worried that this current plotline is going to devolve into a very centrist/liberal take on Ivy's want to overturn the system and save the earth instead of a nuanced exploration of agency and power.

But. I also like a lot of the writing. Ivy in this series is one of the most fleshed out and realistic queer women I've ever seen in the pages of a mainstream comic. Overall, I think there's something really powerful about the way Ivy's sexuality (both her queer identity and sexual behavior) is portrayed in the ongoing Poison Ivy series. Ivy's only had a solo series since 2022, so Ivy and Harley's queer relationship was first hinted at in other comics and portrayed very differently by those writers. It was hinted at in the pages of Batman and then more strongly in Harley Quinn. At times, it's been quite sexualized in a way obviously intended to appeal to male viewers. In Amanda Conner and Jimmy Palmiotti's run of Harley Quinn, for example, Harley and Ivy are portrayed as "girlfriends without the jealousy of monogamy" (x), which allowed the writers the "best of both worlds": Harley was implied to be dating Ivy and a character Mason at the same time, and she flirted with everyone from Batman to Power Girl. Harley was often drawn in quite sexualized ways; although I personally think this run added depth to Harley & Ivy's relationship, there were other times that their implied hookups were clearly meant to just be sexy and not to add any depth to their characters.

Even the statement alone that they were "girlfriends without the jealousy of monogamy" shows that the writers didn't have a vested interest in portrayed a nuanced and realistic portrait of a non-monogamous relationship, as people actually in these relationships will often talking about having to work through feelings of jealousy as a part of making those relationships work. Non-monogamous relationships take work and communication like any other, and earlier series didn't necessarily portray them that way.

Even before her relationship with Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy has long been a character that was highly sexualized. In her current solo comic, though, she's portrayed as sexual without being sexualized. When she sleeps with Jessyln in issue #4, we're shown their shadows on the wall instead of anything more salacious. When Ivy and Harley are shown in bed together in #9, they're not drawn in a particularly "sexy" way, and the emphasis is on their emotional connection to each other. When Ivy sleeps with women in this series, as I've talked about at length above, it always deepens her character. Her relationships with these women--whether they're one night stands, situationships-turned-friendships, an ongoing & longtime romance, or an ex-turned-leftists-squabble--allow her to messily explore who she really is and what she really wants. The Ivy we see is confused about her political goals, about what using her powers for "good" should look like--and that makes sense, on a meta-level, for a character who has never had the breathing room of a solo series to be anyone besides the villain, the anti-hero, or the girlfriend in someone else's story. Let's let her be messy for a while longer. Hopefully, something beautiful will grow out of it.

[seirindono]

TMS - Author's note (Arc 1)

Today I'm stepping up to talk about TMS for a while. It's going to be a lot of blah blah, no TLDR, so hang in there or save it for later if you're brave enough, haha (¯▿¯)

So, another chapter of TMS draws to a close, with the difference that this time it's a whole saga that's coming to an end! That's a big relief for me, given that we recently celebrated the comic's 4th anniversary! That's almost the entire duration of my college life, and that's both an impressive and terrifying achievement lol.

The comic is divided into 3 arcs, each separated by an interlude. The first runs from part 1 to 8, with 201 pages total (wow!). In it, you are introduced to Mel, a young skeleton with a rather unclear past, who accidentally arrives in a a foreign timeline, along with other well known skeletons. Nowadays it's just an isekai haha. Throughout the arc, she proves to be a cautious Monster, quiet and somewhat withdrawn compared to the other skeletons we come across, notably Rus, Blue and Axe, who each got their own sequences.

Still, Mel in the last few scenes is starting to show more initiative, and the interlude will make this even more obvious, but we can expect her to open up a lot more during the next Arc, about her past, motives, goals and thoughts.

I could go on at length about what's in store for us in the interlude, but given that it's due for release sometime in 2024, I'm going to talk about the general story line instead. Although we follow Mel who is foreign to what's going on in this universe prior to her arrival, the other characters and events suggest that strange phenomena are taking place in Ebott, leading many people to become embroiled in a highly unusual affair. Crossing timelines, earthquakes, mysterious apparitions in the forest, something is afoot and the situation seems to be at a turning point when Mellow gets here.

Everyone has their own way of dealing with the situation and what to do next. Some are serious and pragmatic, like Black, others optimistic, like Blue, and others, like Papyrus, find themselves completely backed into a corner, forced to do their best to fix whatever needs to be.

A special case, however, is Axe, whom Mel meets in the forest as she investigates Mt. Ebott. The two have diametrically opposed views of their current condition. One wants to return to her world by any means necessary, regardless of the advantages of a peaceful world. The other, not so much. Both refuse to talk about their past and ignore the other's circumstances, but a sense of familiarity drives them to try to convince the other to stay or go. These are two stark positions to reconcile, and while we can expect Blue and the other skeletons to have their own views on the subject too, Mel and Axe are strangely "committed" in this interraction and resort to violence, spurred on by a unknown substance that causes Axe to momentarily lose control.

Mel is wounded, Axe unconscious, and the status quo disrupted. Other consequences follow this confrontation, and several questions are raised: Can Blue really help Mel when Axe accuses him of having already given up on going home himself? What is this mysterious entity Axe came across a few days earlier? The vibrations? What was that substance that made him go berserk? And what made him stop? Can we trust Mel and what she tells us? And many others.

Because as I'm sure many of you have come to realize, Mel has proven to be a rather unreliable narrator (or at least character since you don't follow her actual POV). Blatantly lying or omitting facts to others and readers alike, it's hard to know her next move and whether she's genuinely forgotten important infos (for it's well established at this stage that she has hazy memories and that they continue to deteriorate. The same applies to her health).

In the same way, each part of TMS so far has raised more questions than it has answered, but I can confidently say that the road is paved for Arc 2 to answer and put in perspective most of them, ahah.

Ah, this is also the moment when I can announce that ALL skeletons will be featured in the Interlude. Should be. Hopefully.

I'd also like to point out a few narrative changes for Act 2! The central characters, in particular. Original cast characters such as Undyne, Metatton and a veiled character will be more formally introduced, but we'll also meet up with characters we've already bumped into, but in a much more concrete way, such as Frisk and Alphys. I can't wait for you to get to know them! You can also expect more pov changes, more elipses and so on. Things are moving fast.

But that begs the question. When is it due? As said before, the first Arc lasted 4 years and I'm entering my last (and most crucial) year of college. I still don't know if I'll have time to get much of it done in 2025, but on the other hand, I'd like to strike while the iron's hot lest TMS be discontinued after a 1-year hiatus and my entry into the working world. Student loan, life and all. There are still plenty of things I'd like to bring to this project, and I now have the skills to actually carry them out, but on the other hand, the time involved has also increased exponentially.

Tbh with you, as an animation student, it's been one of my dreams since 2020 to do one of TMS's sequences in animatic or full anim, or even a trailer for the comic! But as a solo team, it's just unreasonable and I know it. But the parasite ----. Don't get me wrong, I could, but it would take me months and it's just not realistic when 80% of my time has to go into professionnal work that goes into my portefolio or adult stuff. I can't affort to invest time in solo-ing it or to recruit and lead a team over one side project of mine ( ´ ▿ ` ) So we'll most likely stick to classic pages.

But the same goes for collabs, community events, side stories, asks, edits, dubs, testing other platforms, regular animatics. Love all of that. Really. But I never have the time to because, man, I'd love to actually finish TMS someday ahah. It all comes back to the age-old problem of “lots of ideas, little time”, and it's so frustrating but, it's a choice I have to stick to, so bear with me as I vent my frustration. Just for tonight (´ ∀ `, *)

So, yes. Act 2. Next year? Probably? It's a long interlude, so you'll get smth in the meantime, but it's likely to decide the future of TMS and whether Act 2 sees the light of day as I imagine it or if...well, something else replaces it.

bringing back this doodle cuz it seems fiting lol

Anyway, I also wanted to thank you for your engagement with Part 8!

I don't know how other comic artists experience it, but for me it's a very isolated work, and as much as I love working alone, I enjoy the interaction with readers most of all.

Seeing people losing their mind over a serious scene, or chuckling at a dumb gag, or just simping over the characters and art. It's just great, and very rewarding. Likewise, I have a blast answering questions about the TMS universe, reading tags and receiving memes, witnessing people go increasingly mad with messages full of indecipherable screams and hearts. Makes me giggle and kick my feet everytime and I can't wait to drop the next lore bomb or funny scene bwahahah

And while we're on the subject, I'd like to say a special word of thanks to the legions of rebloggers who make it their business to spread the word about TMS. You sweet, lovely, candy scented folks. And to my dear mutuals - with whom I interact objectively so little - who have no idea how a single message or note from them drives me bonkers. Thanks for dropping by. And of course to my super Patreons who support me despite the sparse updates, but to whom I'm more than grateful. Love you all.

Sounds like a farewell message. It's not lol. Just making sure they get the love they deserve.

The post is getting long and I'm kind of done pretending I know how to write organized notes so to wrap things up, here's an exhaustive list of what I'd like to get done this year and/or discuss in more detail another day. •Make a new masterpost (for Act 2) •Analyze/Comment certain sequences from Act 1 to clarify or give context •Redraw and rewrite part 1 and 2 •Make more bonus content again *ahahahahahaha*

•Re open or close the Discord (partially abandoned and it's all on me, but I'm still mulling it over).

•Finish the Interlude and enjoy and nice hiatus

And that's about it? Congratulation for reading this and making it this far! You were there!

Be well, and see you next time.

Seirin-

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[daffydilled]

On using the Robins

Alright, I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but DC? We gotta talk about the Robins and how they're used. For a company and comic universe with a truly spectacular willingness to explore every possible avenue of a character, if you want to really get to the point of Batman, we're going to need Robins used consistently across media and we're going to need the right ones used.

Why? TL;DR: the Robin you use tells us a hell of a lot about the Batman you're using. If you're going to keep using Batman in everything, we're going to need Robins. And they need to be the right ones. Using the wrong Robin is destroying live action DC adaptations.

Believe it or not, this whole rant started with me playing Gotham Knights on my PS5. Normally, anything that distinguishes between Robins and puts them interacting with others is pretty damn good to go in my book. It's not exactly common, after all. But I got about 15 hours into it and realized what was bugging me so much: it uses the wrong Robins.

Let me clarify. Nightwing and Red Hood are nearly perfect. They're exactly where they need to be. But if that game let Tim Drake detect in the role filled by Batgirl, let Batgirl be Oracle, and put Damian Wayne into the 'young Robin finding his wings' role that Tim plays, the story would have been far more cohesive. Why? Because I would have bought the final word Bruce tells them far more and I would have bought Talia's involvement as well.

This particular Bruce Wayne is an older Batman, one comfortable removing himself from the cause and passing it on to the rest of his family. The balance of Robins (and the misuse of Batgirl) upsets this. This isn't a team that is ready for that step yet, and Bruce in-game would know that. One can argue that's part of the tragedy of it, but the weight of the dynamic is still lopsided. The game feels unbalanced. If a story is going to rest on proteges and inheritors, I need to buy their ability to take over for Batman, and I don't. (And don't get me started on the misuse of Babs in this game. That woman has her own team, her own struggle!

Batman v Superman pokes me too. It's the lack of a Robin in these, though, that really grind my gears. That is a violent, brutal Batman that has fallen so far into 'The Mission's' ass, I kept expecting to see a suited memorial to a dead kid in his batcave and an extremely stubborn thirteen-year old stopping him from breaking a Kryptonian's face open before the dread "Save Martha" can be said.

That is a Batman that screams I just lost my son. He is so angry and bitter and walks around with an armory for a suit. That's a perfectly acceptable Batman to explore, when paired with the context of Jason Todd. Otherwise, it just reads like they made the movie gritty for the sake of being gritty and missed out on piles of nuance for both the heroes.

Frankly, a Batman grieving Jason Todd and a Superman processing the arrival of a cloned version of him mixed with Luthor's DNA would go miles to explaining the mental states of both these guys, but nobody bothered to do that, so I'm just bitter.

One of the oddest mix-ups of Robins I've ever seen has absolutely nothing to do with Batman. It's from Birds of Prey or The Fabulous Emancipation of Harley Quinn, where somehow Stephanie Brown and Jason Todd pre-pit get fused into one character and named Cassandra Cain. That is. Odd. I don't even really know how to address it, but I'm going to try.

Fact one: Steph would have been a perfect kid for Harley to meet in that movie. She's whip-smart, tough as nails, survived having a supervillain for a dad, and could, in the right light, even look a bit like Harley. There's this great potential there for her to remind Harley of a younger version of herself before the Joker got to her and wouldn't have messed with the vibes Birds of Prey was going for at all.

Fact two: Jason Todd also wouldn't have been too odd of a fit, especially if this was happening in a world where he did manage to jack the tires. He's immediately recognizable to the fans, though, which I do think would have pulled focus from the Birds in that movie.

Fact three: That was not Cassandra Cain and it was frankly a bit of an insult to her character to name that character Cassandra Cain. That's a rant for another time though.

Why mention it now? It's indicative of the greater issue DC has with adapting its characters to screen. Namely the issue to actually adapt the characters at all and not turn them into some weird Frankenstein'd versions of themselves. There's no Batman in Birds of Prey, but the world he'd inhabit is. And that world, based on our poor scrambled egg mess of Robins, is a disaster.

I think it's important for DC to remember they are adapting comics here, and those comics do not shy away from using Robins in them. Even in the most bat-shit (pun not intended) alternate universes where there's Cthulhu Batman or Edwardian Batman or White Knight Batman, the Robins are there.

How they're living and dying in those universes is one of the reliable ways to judge things like tone, narrative priorities, and themes. There's nothing wrong with trying a few different version of Batman, but Batman without Robin doesn't work long-term. It hasn't before and it will continue to fail if DC, in their adaptations, don't get a handle on their universes' scale. After all, the heroes only work if they have people to pass the work onto.

[justiceiscalling]

so i wanna get into batfam cause it seems fun. my introduction to this family is through some dceu movies and titans (show) only. is there any introductory ff or something? (don't wanna do comics idkw)

dude the way those were my introductions too (plus young justice)!!! i also refused comics in the beginning lol. first, disregard titans as a whole. i loved the show when i knew nothing of the batfam and dc in general but now that i do, i remember how wrong it was on so many parts.

i'm just going to do fic recs that i read and that i think helped me better understand some characters and then at the end i will add a 'quick' background on the 'lesser known' bats (duke, cass, and steph).

(nine fics plus an additional two crossovers)

here we go:

Worlds Saddest Breakfast Club by motelyfam

Summary:

Following a couple of Very Bad Weeks™ (which may or may not have involved being kidnapped and mildly tortured), Jason decides the best way to cheer himself up is to break into the Manor for a 3 a.m. snack. Turns out he isn’t the only one awake.

my opinion: okay i love love love this one. it includes every 'major' batfam member save for barbara gordon (so really just the one's considered bruces kids + steph). i think this one has extremely accurate characterization, it’s jason todd-centric but includes a good amount of everyone else.

greatest of ease by ijustwanttodestroy (ONGOING)

Summary:

The times people meet Dick Grayson. Not Robin, not Nightwing — just Dick. (Or: Dick Grayson is a hero, has always been and will always be, no matter what name he takes.)

my opinion: i actually just read this during the 12 hour tik tok ban and this is so good. it's dick centric and is just how random people who've met him in passing perceive him. i love it so much. there's still one chapter left to be written, but since the last time it was updated was 2019, i don't think it'll be updated lol. but, i think the last chapter isn't really needed

A Mediation on Railroading by eggmacguffin

Summary:

When he ends up ditched in Atlanta after a fight with his dad, Tim decides to do the only sensible thing: Tell no one and make the 800 mile journey back to Gotham on his own. Because the "call Batman when you're in trouble" rule only applies when he's Robin, right?

my opinion: okay, honestly i haven't rad this in forever--a reread is long overdo--but i remember enjoying this. this one is on the longer side, nearly 25k words. i feel like a majority of people in this fandom have read this, in 2023 i could not go anywhere without being recommended this. i'm pretty sure this started me into my jason and tim as a duo spiral, which i have since left because i now really believe that tim and jason would lowkey be beefing non-stop but like in a brotherly way? which most fics surrounding them don't quite capture in the way i want, idk i'm picky lol.

but yeah. this fic=good for new fandom people.

though your eyes will need some time to adjust by popsunner

Summary:

“I think…” Stephanie takes a deep breath, “I think I’m bad.” “I don’t.” “So what, I’m just supposed to believe you?” “I am Batman.” Stephanie snorts, “Yeah, you are… but what if I’m still bad?” “Then I forgive you.” _______ Or: Stephanie and Bruce, figuring it out

my opinion: i actually haven't seen a lot of steph and bruce bonding fics that i like but i really enjoyed this one. i read this a year or two ago, forgot about it and reread it today. steph and bruces relationship is complicated and i like how this captures them.

dick grayson: a case study by writersagainstwritersblock

Summary:

Dick rubbed the back of his neck sheepishly. “I’m mostly used to sparring with my little brothers, it’s kind of just habit, and I was having fun. I didn’t want the match to be over too quick.” “Too quick?” Derek asked, eyebrows raised. “I’m twice your size, kid.” Dick shrugged. “So’s Bruce and we’re pretty much tied at this point, or at least according to the score board the kids started to keep for Saturday spars.” “Saturday spars?” Derek repeated, following him towards the locker room. Dick flashed him a smile. “What? Don’t have any weird family traditions?” “Not ones that include hitting each other,” Derek said   OR The BAU gets a probationary profiler who is a little more than he appears at first glance. Or second. Or third. Just how many secrets can Dick Grayson be hiding from a team full of profilers?

my opinion: this one's a crossover but i love how it shows dicks relationship with his siblings, wally, and bruce. slades in here and so because of that theres implied sexual assault. the author has warnings on every chapter. i wouldn't read if you're not familiar with criminal minds though, it'll be really confusing

The Robin Generation by waterunderthebridge12

Summary:

"It's the dodging emotional conversations for me," Duke said. "Take the L." "Stop being such a cringefail edgelord," Tim said. "It's giving emotionally stunted," said Damian. "It's giving big yikes delulu."   In his ongoing search for better ways to fight crime, Tim comes up with a brand new method: bombarding bad guys with Gen Alpha slang. Recruiting Gen Alpha cusper Duke and full Gen Alpha Damian, shenanigans, chaos, and bonding ensue.

my opinion: i recommend this entire series, omg it's so unbelievably funny and good. great duke and damian bonding, great duke representation overall, and it also introduced me to the idea of duke hating dick and cass and jason just straight up beefing all the time which makes so much fucking sense. if you read anything on this list PLEASE read this.

Life Happens by Cdelphiki

Summary:

While walking home from an event at Wayne Enterprises, Tim and Damian are kidnapped and sent to an alternate dimension. In a world where superheroes are merely comic book characters and the idea of the multiverse is only a theory found within the pages of science fiction, how are Tim and Damian going to return home? How long will they be stranded on this strange Earth? And will the boys murder each other before they figure it out?

my opinion: by far one of the best tim and damian bonding things i read. it's 176k words so it doesn't make them bonding so straight forward, yk? not the usual 'they're both secretly jealous of each other' thing (which i lowkey love like i eat that shit up ngl), it's more complex. more 'i love you cause you're my brother, but i don't like you' which evolves into 'you're the only one around for me now' which turns into 'you're my favorite, please don't leave me.' i sob every time i read this story, it's so fucking heartbreaking. the other works in the exiled robins series are good but not needed to understand life happens.

All the Roofs of Uncertainty by Kieron_Duibhir

Summary:

For all the blood on his hands, Red Hood was never just a villain. And Nightwing never gives up on family, not for good. (Or: The one where Dick bleeds a lot and Jason argues with everybody.)

my opinion: i remember vaguely reading this when i first joined the fandom and loving it so much, it was my first introduction to jason and dick's relationship as brother that i thought actually made sense. if you like this one, check out Kieron_Duibhir's account, they're a really good author.

Martry Unmade by Here_we_go

Summary:

Jason Todd was loved best dead. Dead he was a saint. A martyr. Nothing was more sacred in the Church of Batman than martyrdom. - No one ever said that coming back from the dead was easy, not for the one who died and not for the people they left behind.

my opinion: catholic jason todd, my love. i'm always searching for catholic jason todd fics. i stumbled upon this a couple months ago and loved the fuck out of it. catholic jason is just so incredible to me, for some reason.

the entombment of idolization by make_your_own_world

Summary:

It turns out that growing up in the League of Assassins complicates your definition of self-worth. Or: Damian’s Saturday nights did not typically involve an underground sequence of caverns, a drugged brother, and a bloodthirsty monster snapping at their heels, but he was nothing if not adaptable. Or: If I am all you want to be, and you are all I want to be, why together are we not enough? (Can be read as a standalone)

my opinion: i did not read the other works in this series and i understood everything. this has tim and damian bonding which i will always look for, i'm pretty sure i stumbled upon this christmas of 2023 and i have loved it ever since.

okay that's it for the recs. if you want more heres the link to my bookmarks.

some have OC's or x readers, and i think theres one or two non batfam in there. still, feel free to look if you want. i also have some tim and damian bonding ones posted (Keep hanging on, Praise from a mother, Trust from a bother, the graves i dig series, and Growing apart), i don't think any of my other works will be of any use if you're just trying to get into the batfam because the rest are x readers or x OC's, save for one which is on a HEAVY hiatus lol.

quick background (as promised):

since your introduction was through DCEU and titans, im assuming you have no clue who duke thomas, cassandra cain, and stephanie brown are. duke is bruce’s latest foster kid, he’s black, his parents were rendered insane because of joker, he’s the vigilante signal, and he’s often forgotten by lots of the fandom. cassandra is one of bruce’s adopted kids (i believe) she came after tim but she’s jason’s age. she’s the daughter of lady shiva and david cain. typically she’s depicted as mute in fanon, but in comics she can speak her english is just very broken. depending on the fic, cass will be either one of those three vigilantes: batgirl, black bat, or orphan. stephanie isn’t bruce’s kid, she’s kind of an honorary kid though. she used to date tim but they’ve broken up in comics (tim is bi and dating bernard, as seen in the titans show), many people have her date cassandra. it’s a VERY popular ship in the batfam fandom, i think. stephanie is the vigilante spoiler though she was previously the vigilante batgirl and the only girl robin.

batgirl and robin are passed down. all the (main) robins in order are: dick, jason, tim, stephanie, then back to tim, and then damian (im pretty sure tim is robin in comics rn alongside damian but most fics have him as red robin). some people include maps in that but i normally don’t. batgirl has only three: barbara gordon, cassandra cain, and stephanie brown. then there’s also tiffany fox, who im pretty sure is said to be batgirl in the future? i’ve yet to see her in many fics and i think i read one comic that had her but that was forever ago.

[extendedtimeline]

Batman: Europa & Batman and Jokers relationship

read: This will be a post looking at, and analyzing the relationship between Batman & Joker in Batman: Europa. I actually wrote this entire post (it took me like two hours) and then Tumblr didn't save it correctly so I lost all of my work! <////3 This is your sign to not be like me and write directly on Tumblr it's a bad idea. This won't be as long as the post was originally intended to be, but I hope to still touch on most of the topics I did the first time. I HEAVILY recommend reading this comic for yourself at some point. It's very compelling. Apologies if I get anything incorrect, or if I don't make sense at any point. If you have any requests for future posts about Batman & Jokers relationship I'm definitely all ears!!!

Small Summary

In Batman: Europa Batman and the Joker are infected with a deadly virus, they're both given varying pieces of information to begin with, and this leads to them teaming up to find the person who infected them. They travel throughout Europe (Berlin, Prague, Paris, and Rome) together, fighting enemies, and learning about eachother along the way.

Note

I'm going to divide this post up by Comic issue AKA location. I think this will just make it easier in general. Unlike my first version of this, I'm going to try to keep my summaries of each issue condensed. I will start out with a summary of the issue, and then talk about what I noticed within the chapters. I'm going to try to keep the images to a minimum (bc of the image limit) but if you're curious about what a page looks like, go check it out! Seriously, the art is amazing. I may not touch on absolutely every instance of their weird relationship with her eachother but I tried to pick out the moments I liked a lot <3

Berlin

This chapter starts in Gotham, where Batman is fighting Croc, although Bruce is much weaker than usual. Croc even senses this, and comments on it. Bruce does eventually take him down and Alfred asks him to come to the Batcave. Alfred breaks the news that there has been a virus put on the bat computer. The screen reads:

" Colossus is in your system. You have one week left. Have fun. Start running. "

Obviously from this and Bruce's state they gather this isn't really about the bat computer, and actually about Bruce. Batman finds that the virus originated in Berlin, so he suits up and heads out.

Bruce stalks a criminal, but when he runs out of a building screaming murder, Bruce enters to find a bunch of people with gigantic grins plastered on their faces, so it's clear who is behind this attack.

Bruce tracks down Joker and smashes through a window (because of course he does???). Joker was badgering a girl named Nina about something. Bruce starts to interrogate the Joker until he realizes the Joker is ALSO infected. Nina also knows about the computer virus and can get in contact with the person who asked her to make it. Bruce realizes that he literally needs the Joker on this case with him.

Berlin: B & J

Something I felt the need to bring up is the way Bruce talks about the History of Cölln and Berlin:

" Cölln and Berlin crashed into each other somewhere in the fourteenth century. History forced them together. I get the joke but I'm not laughing. "

Clearly, this is talking about B&J's history too, but I want to talk even deeper on the matter.

Joker has always been queer, he has been coded that way since his introduction. In the beginning it was assumed he wore makeup and he was flamboyant and somewhat "effeminate". Batman was supposed to be the opposite. Despite the fact the idea of The Batman is rather outlandish, and multiple people do comment on this in Batman comics, Batmans brand of outlandish is accepted because hes seen as the defender of the heteronormative agenda. He goes against the criminal, and otherwise queer joker to enforce heteronormative ideologies. He is a big intimidating man, and Joker is supposed to be just the opposite.

Of course, now there is more nuance and a bit more care put into these character, but the way theyre portrayed early on feels very much like Batman is fighting against somebody who goes against the Norms. I'm not saying that Batman is homophobic NOW, and I'm not even saying he was intentionally homophobic then, but the ideals of writers tend to show in their work, and it was the '40s.

Infact, I think Bruce has ALSO been used to show what it's like to be a repressed queer person. He's not ALLOWED to be queer with Joker because Jokers was is supposed to be the wrong way.

Bruce & Joker talk

B: "You're infected, too?" J: "I'll take that to mean we both are. Maybe they'll bury us together."

Already talk of them dying together (Thinking about Batman: Endgame so intensely rn). Joker may also be alluding to the way married couples are often buried together.

In general, Joker and Batman, after their initial scuffle, talk rather casually in this chapter. Not beating the bff allegations

We do get this at the end of the chapter:

Batman doesn't say it outright (as in literally saying "I need you, Joker"), but it is the truth. They've both been given different pieces of the puzzle and only by putting them together can they figure it out. Almost like a comment on how they're better together? Almost like a comment on the whole nature of their relationship and how they are dependent on one another???

Prague

We start off with Bruce talking about the history of Prague. Nina is now working with them, she is trying to lure out whoever it was that propositioned her to put the virus on Bruce's computer.

Nina is scared, and as she's speaking to Bruce about the Trojan Horse (the person who requested this of her) these wooden robots start to attack. Joker is faster than Batman at getting up and out of the sewers and kills a man.

Nina is taken by the robots, and Batman begins to fight them off with Jokers help. But Bruce can tell the wooden robots are actually leading them somewhere theyre supposed to go.

I'll speak on everything that happens to Nina now, because it cuts in and out of her and B&J's storyline for a second. She was taken by the associate of the perpetrator. It's implied she is to be killed, but the perpetrator kills his associate, thanking him for what he's done for him.

Joker is taken captivate by a gigantic wooden robot, as he's sucked into it's chest cavity. Batman chases after it, and uses a silane capsule to set it aflame. Because the thing is already covered in ancient grease and oil which doesn't pair well with burning gas the outcome is even more deadly. Batman is struck by the robot and goes black. He believes his time is up until Joker busts out of the robots chest cavity and saves Bruce. Since Joker tore the robot apart from the inside it's now extremely broken and easily taken down.

because Batman had a tracker on Nina's clothing, he knows that she is heading into Paris. So that will be their next destination!

Prague: B & J

When Joker and Batman are in the sewers, Joker is messing around with some insects.

Bruce brings up Joker

"With a partner... I'd be crazy to trust."

The thing is, and we see this later more explicitly, Bruce DOES Trust joker even if he shouldn't.

"Not yours or mine, but our fate."

This once again brings me back to Batman: Endgame. Their lives, their demises, are linked to eachother. Bruce is scared of this link, because it says something about him he doesn't quite like or want to explore behind surface level. This entire scenario is begging him to confront that idea though. Because he needs the Joker now, and perhaps he always has?

Batman & Joker dialogue:

B: "Joker-- save your strength." J: "instead of myself?" B: "Trust me-- there's too many of them-- and the way these things are fighting... they're directing us somewhere."

Ah, yes, Trust. A reoccurring idea in Europa! Of course Batman probably believes himself to be trustworthy, atleast more so than the Joker, but for the both of them trust doesn't come easy. It's a big ASK of either of them to put genuine faith into someone. But they ask that of eachother. HMMMMMM!!!!

Batman & Joker Dialogue

B: Show some respect-- you... you-- J: "Saved me." I'd say you're welcome but I'm less happy about that than you are. Anyway, save the "Thankee" until after I save Nina, it'll mean more. B: That won't happen...

This marks the first time in this comic that Joker saves Batman, and it seems to me that Joker plays this off as something he didn't ENJOY doing. but he does it again later? so like okay man???

Paris

Bruce & Joker are walking around in the catacombs, Joker is leading them to his "circus". When they get there, the people are able to give them some information on the Trojan Horse.

Once theyve gotten the info, Batman goes off only to find the man had been killed. He was just a pawn.

Batman and Joker head off towards the sound of a Bell only to find a man who is a combination of both the joker and batman (where have I seen this before? /sarcastic). Bruce asks Joker to rescue Nina and when Joker hesitates, Bruce scolds himself for trusting him.

Bruce slips off of the building they're on and Joker saves his life.

Joker tells Batman Nina was dead long before they got there. Batman puts clues together and is able to deduce where they are to go to next: Rome.

Paris: B & J

Batman 💭

" I'm out of my head, fevered, infected with a virus that's driving me crazy. What it's doing to the joker is your guess, not mine. He can't get crazier, can he? But that might be the point of our infection-- to see if I can. To lose it, then die unaware of who I am. Or to die, not fighting my greatest enemy, but clutching him against the face of fear. "

Something that I find rather fascinating is how we DON'T know how the virus is messing with Joker. Are the effects the same for Joker and Bruce? or are they completely different? Is it causing any mental strain for Joker or is it physical? Further more – is the virus less about hurting Bruce AND Joker or just Bruce? If Bruce already sees himself as somewhat crazy (as he insinuates) how much worse can it get? Is he already at the worst of it? If he questions who he is, why? Does the Joker have something to do with him questioning things?

Then there's that last line about clutching Joker against the face of fear. It feels like it's implying, atleast to me, that In that moment Joker would be a source of comfort for Bruce. And that SCARES him because of course it does. Does this lead to Bruce questioning more about his relationship with the Joker? If he already is questioning himself, and making up these scenarios, is it possible he's questioning more than just his identity?

Those are all questions I don't necessarily need answered, but all things I ask myself.

Joker is talking to Batman about his circus (the people he gets his information from about the Trojan horse):

B: This cirque. You still haven't explained what it is. J: What if I said I have, ad nauseam? Can you trust me? ... Relax, Bats. It's a hypothetical question. B: Heh. That's funny. J: Really? Wasn't meant to be. We're in this together if we want to live to see the day we kill each other.... oops. Should I have said "Spoilers"?

Once again a reference to trust, but this time about Bruce trusting Joker. And of course Bruce doesn't respond to this inquiry, and Joker says it's just a hypothetical, but we see how the idea prevails in the next quote.

Bruces 💭

"At one point, I almost chuckled to myself; Joker does know his way around the bowels of this city. Or bowels, period. Yes, I have to trust him... and yes it sickens me."

So Bruce puts his trust in Joker, no matter how much it upsets him to do so. Even if he doesn't like the idea, he knows the Joker is knowledgeable, and he also knows the Joker is more than willing to share what he knows because HE wants to be the one to kill Batman. He doesn't want someone else to get the satisfaction. He wants them to kill each other. Intrinsically linked death reference. I need a buzzer for that or something.

I edited 2 images tg for the next one ☝️ just so I don't go passed the pesky image limit. Sorry if it looks weird

So yeah... Joker holds onto Bruce and Bruce calls him "My Monkey" so idfk take with that what you will. Absolutely diabolical work.

Also just wanted to throw it in there that Joker does just straight up say "Batjoke" in this comic:

Bruce starts to slide off the building they're on and Joker saves him with the grappling hook.

Bruce's 💭

" I'll never know if he missed me on purpose... but the scar will forever remind me of the day... the joker saved my life. "

So yeah, despite the fact Joker acting annoyed last time at the fact he saved Bruce, he just does it again? I think at the end of the day, this ties into Jokers want to be the one to kill Batman, while also being the one to make Batman break his no killing rule. His life has no punchline without Batman, it would feel devoid of meaning. So he saves him.

Once Batman has deduced they need to get to Rome:

J: Oh well, might as well get on one of those roads. We're burning moonlight after all. Rome: The Infernal City. B: It's eternal, Joker. J: Really? Have you been? B: ... Let's stick with infernal. We'll fit right in.

I wanted to mention this because the mention of being "infernal" (or something from hell) struck me. In some Christian teachings (I do not know much Abt religion so forgive me if I mess this up), those who go to hell are people who have not repented for their sins. Batman and Joker have both "sinned" and while we can defend one (Bruce) easier than the other (Defending Joker would take 15 defense attorneys alone) this implies neither of them would seek repentance from God, as in they wouldnt regret their actions, or feel guilty or remorseful for what they've done. While this would be a clear "duh" moment for most anyone who knows the Joker (although we can still even debate this), some may wonder about why Bruce would feel no remorse.

And I think the simple answer is that he knows what good he has done and he wouldn't reject that idea to appease a higher power. I think specifically in relation to Joker, Bruce may regret letting him live because of the people he would have saved had Joker died, but he doesn't regret NOT KILLING Joker if that makes sense.

Rome

It opens with Bruce talking about the history of Rome. Joker and Bruce are bickering like an old married couple. They're approaching the colosseum and when they do a man approaches. He talks about how keeping a mask on prevents others from knowing who you truly are.

the big reveal!!!! ITS BANE! He is once again trying to fuck Batmans life up LOL! He wants to kill Joker in front of Batman while Batman knows Joker is the only thing that can cure the virus that's killing him. Bruce starts attacking Bane and when he's getting close to ending him, Joker plays a hunch, asking Bane to kill Bruce. This distracts Bane long enough for Bruce to signal bats to show up and attack Bane.

Bruce tells Joker that the cure is eachothers blood.

During the fight, Bane revealed that Joker had allowed Nina to die in front of him, and Bruce asks if this is true. Obviously, it is. Bruce genuinely considers letting them both die in that moment, but Joker takes it into his own hands and tastes some of Bruce's blood. In the end they go back to their classic dance (Batman beating Joker up).

Rome: B & J

HERE IT IS!!! A CULMINATION OF A LOT OF WHAT THE STORY HAS BEEN TELLING US! Of course, Batman NEEDS Joker in this moment to survive but it feels like a comment on their relationship as a whole. He had to realize that Joker is a main driving force for him, and without him, who is he really? Who would he become?

ONCE AAAGAAAINNN the idea of them dying together. Joker even DARES him to die alongside him. Their intertwined fates...

"And if the Joker is to live, then so must the Batman."

Literally tied together. Invisible string type of shit. Batman won't allow one to exist without the other here.

and then of course:

and yeah man WOAH. Let's talk about blood consumption. Vampires, and therefore by association, the consumption of blood as a whole, is something that has been used in queer text many times before (look at my last post if you wanna see more on that and how it relates to Batman). Of course we can take it a step further and think about it as strictly a bodily fluid. They have consumed parts of eachother now. When I originally typed this up, I believe I called it akin to the "consummation of a marriage". They've sworn themselves to each other by LITERALLY having parts of themselves inside each other.

During the beginning of this chapter, and previous chapters, before the introduction of where they are, we sometimes would get this set of images.

OUR BLOOD ON EACH OTHERS LIPS? without the context, this borders on undeniably romantic (I mean even in context lol?). Your immediate thought is, did they kiss? is there going to be an implied kiss? And I think that was definitely on purpose.

this comes from the scripting for this comic if I recall correctly

so we LITERALLY get

"they look ready to either kiss or strangle each other with passion"

it's clear this IS supposed to be explicitly queer in some way. Strangulation and romantic gestures almost feel the same with them. Strangling each other is as close as they will get to kissing, as long as Bruce stays repressed, and so they are to kiss with their hands around each other's throats forever.

I'd also like to point out the phrasing "But I'm ready to go all the way... and do it." clearly vague and 99% of the time (not a real statistic LMAO) when people say "do it" they're alluding to sex. This feels like an obvious allusion to them having sex.

And at the end Batman begins to fight the Joker, because of course he does. The curing of their shared virus has forced him back into a repressed state. So he hurts him and they continue their usual dance, as if the disruption to their game never occured.

[gffa]

Did they at least fix what was wrong with Jason? like did Bruce at least fix what he did to Jason? Like im coming to terms with the fact that Jason as a character is now just a prop to serve Bruce whether to make him look good for saving the streetkid from becoming a Evil Criminal, or to give shock value to readers, or to dispense platitudes about the importance of family and how wonderful Bruce.

and that he will never be allowed to be or do anything good unless is in the service of batman in someway, but at least i need to know that Bruce fixed what he did wrong, and that they didnt just forget about that like the other time Bruce was awful to Jason.

I'm not really aware of them even specifically addressing it outside of maybe The Man Who Stopped Laughing, but like. That's kind of the things comics does, all comics I've read will do this at some point or another. They do over the top ridiculous nonsense and those plot threads often get dropped, I don't think we're meant to take them seriously, just like I don't think we're meant to look at Jason and think of him as the guy who shot an 11 year old child straight through the chest and probably right through his spine, and not forgive him for it. Comics are bonkers and I don't think they're meant to be taken with the seriousness we would of these actions in the real world--otherwise, almost ALL of these people have done things that they could never fix, you know? I don't know where your lines in the sand are, I don't know what you're looking to get out of comics, whether you're here for the canon or you're here for the fandom--and none of that is said with any shade, there's a whole wide variety of reasons to be a fan of something. I can't really give advice here because it's something you have to figure out what you want from comics and what you think they're meant to be might be totally different from what I think they're meant to be. And I'm struggling to word all of this, because I can feel how frustrated you are, how I've been there and felt heartsore about the place my faves occupy in canon, like I was and am a Pietro Maximoff fan in the comics, I have intimately known the pain of a character only being an extension of other characters, being written horribly by those who don't care about him, and desperately holding onto that one run where he was written brilliantly even though it was from 20-30 years ago. Versus that that's just the way comics often are, our faves just are not A-list characters, that comics are on a tiered hierarchy and we have to make our peace with that. Not all of the characters we like are the same ones the company likes or the writers like and that sucks. Whether that means walking away from comics (like I did after Marvel threw the X-Men under the bus for the Avengers in AvX, like I've stopped reading Quicksilver comics because my heart couldn't take it anymore) or just reading comics and then turning to fandom to realize the potential that canon never intended, whatever you need to do to make your peace with how comics operate, that's all any of us can do. I don't know if you're just in need of venting or if this is truly a breaking point for you, but it probably is true to some degree that Jason's always going to be written as an extension of Bruce's character, because Bruce Wayne Sells So Many Comics, of course DC is going to make everyone an extension of him, to some degree or another. (Honestly, right now, I think the only Bat escaping that is Dick and even he is still extremely tied to his relationship with Bruce.) Until those characters sell as many comics as Bruce does, I don't see that changing. All we can do is find the moments of something worth having fun with in the meantime, because comics are not a coherent medium, they are messy and tons of stuff is never addressed on-screen because every writer is coming in with their own agenda and it's pure chaos, and in my experience we just have to find joy in the whirlwind of it all.

[drifting-pieces-blog-blog]

Breaking down the comics: BEMIS. Part 2

READING THINGS SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO! 

Part one is here. Thanks Tumblr.  (please go read it)

Two issues left of this trash heap volume. Any time you think it can’t get worse you look at the next panel. 

NEXT ISSUE. We’re almost through this collection. This bread is not what I ordered. Send it back. 

ISSUE #192. 

(Spoilers: There are no sharks in this episode. For those of you waiting for the dolphins, that’s in vol 2)

Alright. In this issue. We open with Marc, Diatrice, and Frenchie sitting at the table having coffee. ANd Frenchie looks very dead and is in scrubs. 

I’MMA PAUSE FOR A SECOND. 

I will cover the Lemire run later. It’s inevitable and something I’m deeply looking forward to. 

The thing about the Lemire run is that it takes place at a time when ALL of Moon Knight’s original friends had left him. Gena, the kids, Crawley, Frenchie, Marlene… They had all been driven away. They were all in pain and either hated him, were disenchanted by him, or just pushed away. 

The Lemire run takes place with the Moon Knight system, Marc in particular, having a severe mental health crisis. 

DID is caused by extreme repeated trauma at a young age. It leads to dissociative episodes, and it is not uncommon for other issues to crop up (thanks trauma!). A lot of systems, if they have the health care, end up in and out of hospitals when they reach crisis points. 

In this run, a LOT of things happen that seem spectacular and fantastical and a lot of things that are grounded in reality. It’s hard to say if the whole thing happened or was really all just in Marc’s head. There is evidence for the latter. I’ll discuss that at a different time. But in this run, he witnesses his friends all leave him again. It’s a way for his mind to make sense of it and to let them go. To let go of the past and the pain associated with his friends departing him. In this world, Frenchie sacrificed himself to save them and died. 

So… Bemis is assuming that the audience took in the Lemire run at face value. He feels he has to explain away the events. He isn’t trusting the reader at all. In fact, he’s even going to try to explain it to the reader.  This is bad writing. This is just… Where is the editorial team? Why are they not explaining things to him? Did they even read his script? Or were they so desperate to feed off of the success of Lemire and get Moon Knight up and going again that they just shoved whatever they could at the fans and waited for the money? 

UNPAUSE. 

So this is why Frenchie is a zombie. He’s trying to explain away Frenchie’s ‘death’.

"Undead?" Frenchie asks Marc. 

"Well, no. Not really undead. Just dead. It's all I can visualize. Like when you seen an old person and think of them naked and then can't stop picturing it." 

"That's disturbing. But I'd be equally haunted if I had seen YOU get murdered in a waking nightmare of insane asylums and Egyptian Gods. You saw it. You felt it. It was real enough." 

(Also he has his legs.) 

There's one of those comic editorial notes in the corner: To find out what Marc's talking about, read the mind-bending Lemire/Smallwood Run! - ED

#^%#$$@ YOU ED. DO YOUR JOB AND ACTUALLY KEEP THE CONTINUITY AND EDIT THIS PILE OF-

deep breaths. deep breaths... We're going to get through this. 

So Zombie Frenchie talks to Marc about what Marc saw in the asylum. 

"Losing you was some kind of fantasy. You can chalk it up to me accepting my dissociative identity disorder, or me facing my demons...But I think I needed to see you die in order to make sense of your worth to me. That's not fair to you. You're my best friend." 

So close. He's SO close to getting the run. And I get the feeling it's spouting off what he was cliff noted about the run without either reading it himself or perhaps he did read it, didn't understand it, and someone had to explain it to him. 

It wasn't about him accepting his dissociative identity disorder or facing down his demons. It was so much more than that. 

At this point Frenchie pulls off his zombie look (literally) and is back to being a normal looking man. 

And we get what Bemis REALLY thinks is going on. 

"You think too much, Spector. You can picture whatever you want in that malfunctioning cranium of yours if it helps you make sense of the hand you've been dealt." 

"...Okay." 

"Now, Marc, are you actually hearing me, or are you still picturing some grotesque fantasy?" 

He’s just using things as an excuse to paint Marc with whatever mental illness he fancies at the time. Hallucinations are apparently now in the mix. What does Bemis actually think is mentally wrong with Marc? Did he do ANY research at all? Is he just pointing at the DSM randomly and picking out things that make the comic edgy or ‘funny’??

As Marc prepares to go, a brick smashes through their window. 

He climbs out the window, dramatic style, and finds Bushman and Truth and some other guys with guns waiting on the street below. 

Bushman has the landlord (a little old lady) at knife point. 

They tell Marc to meet them in the lobby or the old lady gets it. 

Oh look. Another jab at underlined villainous homosexuality. 

Just before Moon Knight can start trashing them all, and Bushman knows he would, Raoul tells him that Marlene is on the boat. 

Oh good. Khonshu's narration is back. I'd missed it. 

Honestly, any time Khonshu narrates it's just a lot of random metaphors, over explanation, or depictions on what's going on that aren't needed. 

He describes Marc being tied to a boat surrounded by his enemies with his fate unknown. ....as the comic shows him tied to a boat surrounded by his enemies with his fate unknown. 

Let the reader read the damn comic! 

Bushman goes against orders of the Sun King and decides to go toy with Marc. 

Never a good idea and everyone there knows it. 

He holds a knife to Marc's face. Well... Honestly, it’s in his style to do just this… Props for that I suppose. 

And Moon Knight makes his way around the top deck of the boat and takes out all the bad guys,circling back around to Bushman. 

"You don't scare me, Spector!" 

"I didn't want to have to do this to you again." 

And Marc cuts off two of Bushman's fingers then tosses them overboard. 

"You can replace those, but they'll never be yours again. And next time, I won't be satisfied with a piece of you. I'm not one of those super heroes who won't straight-up kill you, Bushman." 

It's fitting for what Moon Knight did from the 90s through early 2000s. As much as I disagree with it, it does fit for those times. 

He goes below deck and finds a bunch of sad looking people sitting around like refugees. 

Marc asks what's going on and he's told that they signed up for this. 

He talks to one of the kids who tells him they are going to an island to form a new city for only them. 

Back on deck, he finds Truth. 

"Unlike Raoul, I think I may have learned my lesson in trying to defeat you personally. Besides, I was tasked with your delivery to the Sun King. I just want to help you see what I see, Spector." 

For once, Truth is pretty reasonable. 

True uses his powers on Marc and it's just... 

"I have a vision every waking day. Lovers and dreamers piled waist-deep in the streets. I wade through piles of their slack, twisted bodies. Utterly powerless. Nauseated. It's my fear of this moment that motivates me, not the desire to save lives. The Fear that I've built my sanity on a lie. My hope for a better world is my most tragic form of dissociation." 

You know... I'm not even sure Bemis knows what dissociation really is at this point. 

Truth tells him that he's ready to face the Sun King now. 

They arrive on the island where the 'refugees' get off and go to make camp in the village that they found. 

OKAY. Okay. okay... here we go. 

So... I'm going to point out something here that someone probably should have mentioned to Bemis while editing this crap. 

The bad guy henchmen are all disabled people. People missing arms, legs, hands, eyes, on crutches, or fake legs and things. 

They follow around a man that looks like white Jesus that calls himself "Ra the God '' and "Sun King". They head to a place that Bushman called an "Undiscovered tribe of underdeveloped backwards people". They take over the island for themselves and he brings in other people to populate it....

He's literally colonizing it. 

The other bad guy is an overweight drug dealing black man with possible repressed homosexual desires for the good guy. The other bad guy is a large menacing tattooed white guy that makes people spout nonsense and calls it deep truth like characters in a Chuck Palahniuk novel! 

Is anyone else as fed up with this as I am? Am I reading too much into this? Is this really not as bad as I think it is? Because…this looks pretty bad. 

Moon Knight finds Sun King on the beach who welcomes him to "Isla Ra". 

"Soon this island will burgeon with those willing to light up this shadowy world. They're like us, Marc! The sickly, the fragile, the INSANE. Society's regrettable by-product, but to me...To us... They are everything!" 

He tells Moon Knight to relax. He knows that as long as Marlene is his prisoner, Marc won't do anything to risk her. 

"Take a catnap, Marc. We fight to the death tomorrow, but tonight we indulge in a ritual." 

"A ritual you probably just made up." 

"Ra feeds my mind what it needs to know." 

"You're going to drug me, aren't you?" 

"Sleep, Marc. Tonight we become enlightened." 

So... We see nightfall and Sun King and Marc sit before a camp fire. 

So of course we get an instant jab of homophobia. 

"Why did we have to do this half naked?" 

"Shhhh Let your mind unravel, Spector." 

"I don't do well with psychedelics, Sun King." 

"It was only tea." 

"It smelled like woodstock." 

I have a problem with this. Marc is telling him flat out that he doesn't do well with psychedelics. 

Studies have shown that certain drugs can actually trigger mental illnesses that are linked to chemical imbalances. Not to mention that if he happens to be on any drugs meant to help him, they could negate their effects, interact with them poorly, or make him very ill. 

We know Marc has been in and out of mental hospitals. We know he's been drugged before in these hospitals. Forcing him to take a psychoactive trip is not a cool thing to do for the dramatic storytelling. What’s going to happen is that we’re going to get a really trippy scene of them going into Marc’s ‘messed up’ mind and he’s going to learn things, find peace or some bullshit, and then be healed. 

This gives the wrong message that doing these potentially harmful drugs will fix all your problems! Especially if you have dissociative issues or other similar issues. 

ALSO. People with DID? Not all the alters respond the same way to inebriation. Some will get drunk if they look at a beer. Others can do a LOT of pot and not feel a thing. The brain is a fascinating and complex place. Marc could do psychedelics and Jake could just be having a nice time while Steven has the worst trip of his life. 

Sun King goes on. 

"We share what they label 'insanity'. That gives me a gateway into your beautiful, tortured mind. Let me in, Marc. Let US in." 

NOT ALL MENTAL ILLNESSES ARE THE SAME. ONE CRAZY DOES NOT ALL CRAZY MAKE. 

And Marc starts tripping. 

In Marc's mind, we find Marc, Jake, Steven, Khonshu, Sun King, and Ra. 

Ra calls Khonshu a "bad boy" and Khonshu calls Ra a "loathsome fascist." 

Marc tries to tell himself that this isn't real. Jake demands to know how Ra can be there if it's "all just made up by Marc's mind". 

"Steven is distressed and theorizes that "I think we've entered the world of metaphor, Jake. ANd it's scaring the hell out of me." 

Bemis must really dislike Steven Grant. He writes him as weak, cowardly, clingy, and narcissistic. Not a fan. 

So now, Ra takes hold of Khonshu and tells him to show him the truth. 

He spouts a lot of garbage here and it just... It's fanatical. It's... It's dangerous. 

What do I mean by that? He's talking about things like righteousness. About prophets and saviors and gives images of a world under idealistic circumstances where everyone gets along because he rules it. 

Marc snaps out of his trans by the fire to declare "No... Ra is....RIGHT?!" 

There was nothing right about that crap. It makes no sense. It’s just propaganda crap. There is no just and right and perfect in this vision. It’s a problem. A big problem. 

END ISSUE. 

One more to go. I can’t wait to put the Sun King behind us. 

After all? How much worse can it get? (spoilers so much worse. Sooooooo much worse). 

ISSUE # 193

I like how the past two covers have had NOTHING to do with the actual story inside. It’s like they are trying to make it look cooler and more dramatic than things are. 

Moon Knight in the jungle? I’d read that. Marc spent a lot of time in South America. Although, standing on his cape like that means he can't stand up without falling out of the tree. Just saying. 

Alright so... Marc went on a drug trp and came to the realization that Ra and Sun King were right for some reason? 

And this broke him and made him some passive weakling for some reason? 

We see him wake up the next day and being kicked around and dragged around because "the moon can't save me now." 

Then he's taken to a tent with some old lady outside knitting and she uses her flaming hot knitting needles to burn a sun into his back? 

Back with Frenchie and Diatrice, we see her praying to "Dear Mister Khonshu" and she asks that he not let "the bad men kill my daddy." 

She asks him to let Marc save her mom so they can be a family. 

Marc is pretty broken now and he's taken to see Marlene. 

He tells her that "this time is different"

"I know. He's different. I know because I'm actually scared." 

And Marc begs Marlene not to let Diatrice forget him because he's going to die. 

Why are they acting like Sun King is some super huge bad guy unlike any they have ever faced before? They have faced WORSE. 

He's fought ghosts. He's fought vampires. He's fought werewolves. He's faced aliens and apocalyptic events! 

Some hippy looking man with flames is NOTHING. 

HE'S FOUGHT SO MANY ANIMALS (I need to make a list). 

Marc is taken to a ring of fire and tossed inside to face the Sun King in a battle to the death. 

He tells Marc to fight like he means it or he'll hunt down his daughter and burn her to death. 

They fight and he takes a beating because suddenly Sun King knows how to fight? 

He sets fire to Marc more than a few times. 

Back in the head space, Jake tells Khonshu that they have to do something. 

I have real issue with the assessment here. 

Khonshu tells him: 

"Look around us. We're just faint firings of his synapses now. His defense against the darkness. As we have been since his childhood, and...Our connection is nearly severed. He is alone now, save for death itself." 

This is the belief that Marc is "the original" and that he created the others to deal with things and gave them all parts of himself. 

This is old thinking that people with DID were just shattered and broken bits of themselves that needed to be put back together. It's outdated. It's insulting. 

Why does everything Khonshu says just sound like absolute drivel? 

Like he was TRYING to be deep and just spouting off things that sounded metaphorical. It's just bad writing. He's clearly trying to copy Lemire. 

So he asks if Jake has ever believed in anything. 

And Jake remembers Diatrice. 

And they all take a moment to bask in the glow of their daughter’s memory. 

Then we get Steven’s version of what Khonshu said. 

Yeah. This is where that saying comes from. 

Somehow this gives them the ability to punch harder? 

And he starts beating on Sun King. 

He gets the Sun King to admit that he fears him now for some reason. 

And this makes everyone happy like some sort of 1980s movie.

And the Sun King can no longer use his fire. Because 

"I convinced you. Now Bow before me you horrible bastard." 

I'm not sure it works like that, Marc. But sure. You convinced him. 

And the Sun King bows down before him. 

"Thus ends the reign of the Sun King." 

And the people in the croud are cheering? Despite being there to support the Sun King and because they hate Moon Knight. 

Later we find Marlene bandaging up Marc's burns. 

The Truth stands by watching for the boat to return to get them off the island. 

"The man's cause is dead to me. Proven false by his impotence. I would undo any affiliation I had with him. I've found the facts of life to be more...Malleable than I realized. Maybe with some time in a room by myself...I might reassess my purpose." 

Yeah sure. A man is impotent because he lost a fight with another man and now no one believes in him. 

This is some fucked up masculine toxicity. 

Marc turns to address the other people on the island. 

"All of you just got stuck on a desert island because you let yourself get convinced of a bunch of crap by a completely mad super villain."

Uh huh. So the notion of him raising his own group of followers and warriors out of normal people. Cause that isn’t an issue. Obviously these people are easily swayed and maybe a bit fanatical. So telling them that you are now the new leader is not problematic at ALL. 

Also? That “I believe” in the back? 

We get a zoom in. I’m not going to show you the image. 

It’s Dr. Emmett! 

She's in her Moon Knight cloak thing (why would she bring that to the island with her if she was there following Sun King?). 

She's covered in burn scars and missing an eye. It's drawn to look like a rotten hole. 

Does no one believe in medical care here? Open eye holes are a problem. They run a risk of infection! Also they don't just stay open eye holes. The eyelids will collapse downward a bit. 

Anyways. She's back there going "I believe... I believe! Your doctor believes, Marc!" 

And the comic ends there. 

That was something alright. UGH. 

Give me a second to gather my thoughts up from this burning dump of ableism and poorly depicted mental health peppered with racism and anti-semitism. 

Volume one of Bemis is like a love letter to the kinds of people that think it’s fun and funny to show mentally ill people as dangerous, wild, unpredictable, and overall pathetic. 

The continuous use of language like ‘Insane’ and ‘Crazy’ is more than poor taste. It’s a constant reminder that we aren’t supposed to see Moon Knight as normal at all or even sympathies or identify with him. 

You see, there is a difference between “We have the power of crazy” and “You were the only superpower I ever had.” 

A big difference. 

In the former, it’s played up for laughs. Much like the old gags of seeing a man in a dress. It doesn’t age well but it persists. It persists because it still garners laughs. And the people that are still laughing are the people like Bemis. And he draws in more people who are like minded and he tells them it’s okay to keep laughing. 

The latter is a beautiful way to show that having DID was a powerful and wonderful way to be strong enough to survive when everything didn’t want you to. 

How did he get away with this? He is Bipolar. I’m not going to argue if he is or isn’t. I don’t know him and that’s his own personal history. I’m going to argue that being Bipolar does not give you the right to assume you understand ALL mental illnesses or that you can write for all of them. Or even lump crazy with crazy. 

Marvel is the sort to say “Ah yes, this person had a drink with a black person once so they should be able to write for Luke Cage.” Or “I took high school spanish so I can write for Miles Morales.” 

We can’t put up with this anymore. We can’t let them do this. We can’t let Marvel keep perpetuating things that hurt us. That hurt others. That keeps ripping the power away from those with so very little to begin with. 

So this is Vol 1 of Bemis. 

“But Drifting Pieces” you might say “How can it get worse than this? This was pretty bad.” 

My friend… You are in for a ride. 

PART THREE: HERE

[celaenaeiln]

I always love how heros only kill if there really is no other options. Even then, their deeply disturbed or torn up about it. Killing is easy. But seeing a criminal as a person at the end of the day is much harder. It takes an unfathomable amount of strength to keep this going. It won't always work and it's not easy. But there's a difference between right and easy.

Oh me too!!

Anon you have no idea how much I’ve thought about this over the past five years and come to the same conclusion every time.

There are two reasons why I like that heroes only kill as an extreme necessity.

The first is what you said. It's extremely difficult to be able to control yourself in the face of repulsiveness. Some I do believe are irredeemable but many characters are not worth killing. Because there's a lot that goes into killing. It's not just about moral ethics for me, it's also about how that impacts society. I don't know if you've seen the show "The Boys", but it's about heroes who kill. Originally they kill criminals but at some point their anger and frustration bleeds over and they start killing innocents. The repercussions on society were massive. There was a significant loss of trust and hatred and fear going on. Ordinary people like the main character and the rebel side were dragged into a world and fighting that perpetuated fear and bloodshed until everything became irreversible. It's a terrifying world I would absolutely not want to live in. In the previously posted comic Batman says:

He's not saying this lightly. In a world where killing criminals is done and seen as common place by the people, what's stopping the people from following their hero's actions? Nothing is ever contained on the internet and nothing is ever done in moderation. It's like watching your favorite superhero blast a bad guy's head off on TV and turning around to seeing your mom blast your dad's head off with a gun over an argument about going to the movies. The violence is commonplace, after all. It takes an incredible amount of willpower, far more than anyone gives credit for, to look at someone who hurt you and walk away.

The canon version of this argument and why Bruce should never kill the Joker is proved in the comic, "The Batman Who Laughs." I was terrified for Damian when he encountered that universe.

The second reason I love the no-killing rule- and it's a little more twisted- is because I love self-control.

Not just as a person who tries to practice it in their life but there’s just something so exciting about a character who fights with control.

Having someone run free is super fun to read but having someone who never breaks the line, edge so dangerously close to it, but never kill? Oh the feeling is delicious. You're left pondering-what is it? What will it take? What will cause you to break?

Ironic. I know. But you can't tell me you were never curious about their limits.

Aside from that excitement, I love how the villains are reusable. They may be your worst enemy on a tuesday but on a thursday they're dragging your broken body out of a ditch to go fight the bad guy who got on their nerves.

It's like the idiom- better the devil you know than the devil you don't. Sometimes, no matter how horrible their actions were in the past, they're keeping a larger threat at bay. For example Blockbuster and Heartless. Bane, William Cobb, Lex Luthor, Freeze, Black Manta, and Sinestro in Forever Evil. The Riddler. And when Bruce was dead/lost in time the Joker was straight up like "damn bro I'm so sad I think I'm gonna turn good" which actually sort of saved all of Gotham from that bat cult that nearly killed them. Sort of. He bailed halfway but props to him for the first half.

Also the villains in the comics are terrible people but they're good characters. Like these characters are so well-developed. You'll hate them but you'll never fully hate them because they're funny and mean and deep down, you'll never admit it but they have a small teeny, tiny point.

A couple of my favorite villain scenes:

The Riddler (Batman #699)

Joker (Batman and Robin #22)

Joker

Victor Zsaz in his undies swearing revenge on another villain. Damian and Dick in the photo

Dick bashing up Slade in Damian's body

Damian, Harvey, and Dick

[blackstarchanx3new]

Four Swords Returns 187-191

The death scene re-write because I feel the OG is rushed and goofy and this is my AU so there's cannon divergence.

A bit of a rant under the cut about some choices I made in these pages I won't save for "FSR rambles".

Hot spicey meatball take: Vio deserved to hold this man once while he died I just cannot fathom why they let him lie on the ground. Did Nintendo say "Nah Akira you've made em too fucking fruity this comic he can't hold him while he dies" I genuinely don't understand the awkward direction otherwise for that scene. She got chastised for stupider things from what I saw in some of the interviews lmfao

Also, I'm a real stickler when I think Vio should cry. Because 99% of the time I've seen fan content where he cries I go "...I don't think he'd do that here"

Like I'm of the opinion you have to emotionally OBLITERATE this man before he sheds a tear and he's the type who doesn't realize he's crying and when he does he starts to ugly sob because that's hilarious.

"WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME!?!?!"

"Vio that's crying, you're crying."

"BALLS, IT FEELS AWFUL! HOW DO YOU DO THIS ALL THE TIME!?"

No shade if you do write him crying, I've stated a hundred times my opinions are formed of MY reading of the manga and shouldn't dictate what fan content you make. Demanding otherwise would be fucking stupid.

I will point out just cause it's interesting: He literally only cried ONCE in the manga that I caught while re-reading it a million times and its when Green almost broke his fucking foot. He's pretty stoic otherwise.

I do think he deserves to be able to cry over someone he cares about tho lmfao. Also this is will be fun in FSR later...Muhahahaha.

Also I get to retcon Vaati's "death".

And I straight up don't wanna hear no sentiments of "if Vaati didn't truly die Shadow Link's sacrifice was meaningless" crap cause uh...Nah they were getting their asses Beat in the quote retweets- HANDED to them on a silver plater, would have fucking LOST if he didn't break the mirror regardless if it killed him here or not lmfao and they wouldn't have been able to part the dark clouds to save Zelda and ya know...WIN.

My point is: Shadow still saved their asses here regardless of the "Vaati lived actually" retcon in FSR.

Also, made Shadow have cracks in his skin cause he broke mirror hur-de-durr funny art thingy go brrr also visible representation of him dying cause I didn't feel like making him go transparent that is a pain in the ass.

[mickmundy]

spy headcanon thread! just some of my personal thoughts and musings about his character :-) enjoy!

starting off by saying that spy is Absolutely Everything to me.. i've put his thread off for so long because i have SO much to say and im afraid i'll leave stuff out BUT we're going to take a Stab at it (😏) and i guess i'll just add more stuff later if i need! As Usual this is just pasted from my twitter so i'm sorry for any wonky formatting issues!

the most important thing to me about spy's character is that it is Varied and can be Contradictory. i say this about all of the mercs tbh but spy is among the Most important given his role/occupation as a spy. he IS A Spy, but he's also Just Some Guy (gender neutral).

spy is a bit dry; very sarcastic, a bit stoic, but he's definitely not heartless. i think he's very "emotionally in-tune" to those around him and prides himself on being able to read a room exceptionally well!

... but just because he knows what people might be thinking doesn't mean he's going to do anything about it! he likes being in the know but seldom ever enjoys interfering; it's best if he keeps out of the fray, or so he tells himself!

that being said, i Do think spy makes exceptions to this rule (which To Me is what makes his character Interesting!).... as we see in expiration date! he spends his "last living days" helping scout become a worthy date for miss pauling!

if he sees someone Floundering or really stuck in some kind of emotional squander, he'll pass by with a hand on the shoulder and a concise, discreet, kind word of advice in their ear and move on. no need for thanks, he's just Sharing an Observation! if you try to thank him, he'll give you a coy look and be like "for what?" but he knows. he's just letting you know you don't need to thank him <3

loves breaking balls. he'll help you if you ask him, but not before he gives you a LOT of shit for it. he'll volunteer himself to help you (even if you tell him you need his Stinking Help!) and he'll roll his eyes and say "ha! you are So helpless! i know you're glad i'm here to see this through with you uUu" LOL

but he will give you genuine insight and Surprisingly Good advice. huh, you didn't know he knew you so well! despite his job as a spy, he'll tell you to be authentic and will encourage you to listen to your instincts.

is an Observer First and an Action-taker second. prioritizes being in the know and likes being in the background (despite how good he is at being in the spotlight!). always thinks before he speaks, very calculated in everything he does!

got wiser with age. when he was younger i think he was quick to save his own skin and thought only about himself. among his first "selfless" acts were running out on scout and his mom to "protect" them, but with the wisdom of hindsight, that wasn't the smartest idea!

firmly believes in the power of respect. seems to have a positive relationship with all of his teammates (yes, even sniper, engineer and pyro lol) and scout's mom, too (regardless of how u see their relationship). tells scout that he has to earn pauling's respect to be worthy of her!

won't hesitate to stick his neck out for/work with people he appreciates. in the comics, he works with (and even prioritizes the safety of) miss pauling, helps sniper, and obviously comforts scout when he's dying in the way that Scout would want to be comforted. good job pops!

which brings me to dadspy... how i love you... i could make an entire other thread about my dadspy thoughts BUT i'll keep it "brief" here. i don't think he ever "treated scout like shit" nor do i think he was abusive to scout's mom or scout. he's just the world's most mediocre absent father to me... KDSKF

i think scout's mom knew What Spy Was and knew that at some point, he'd have to leave her. i think she's a perfectly capable woman who spy is genuinely still in love with (they have an open, long-distance relationship!) and is quite the deadly catch herself! perhaps i'll make a thread on her if that's something people would want....

i don't think she resents spy for running out and i think spy has complicated feelings about running out. he's convinced himself he did it for everyone involved's safety but in hindsight he Does feel a Bit (emphasis on Bit. it's not Earth Shatteringly Dramatic, just a little demon that sneaks up on him now and then...) guilty and tries to "make up for it" by Trying to get along with scout even if it's... not easy LOL. him turning into tom jones when scout died was to comfort scout the way Scout would want, which i think says a lot about spy's character.

however, once scout finds out the truth, i think he tells spy that he shouldn't have lied to him about it ("what kind of dumbass lies to their son on his deathbed! 🧍") and spy's like "ah... i suppose that... was also a mistake." and they smirk/smile at each other.. Road To Forgiveness begins..

also i personally love the running gag that everyone knows that spy is scout's dad (except for scout), not because i think spy would tell all/even some of the mercs but because it's SO obvious that all of them are like "i mean yeah.. doy". extra points if their knowledge Also surprises spy. "WHO TOLD YOU? HOW DID YOU KNOW?!" and the mercs are like ??? "erm... we have eyes...?" LOL

DESPITE being Stoic and Unknowable and Mysterious, he is also Quite the Doofus. one of my favorite and most important thoughts on his character. i think his authentic laugh is his snort laugh and i think that's what made scout's mom fall in love with him... :') has a great sense of humor.

loves playing pranks, causing mischief and being a Smug Cunt. will hide behind his Carefully Crafted Facade, but those who really know him (heavy, scout's mom) can see right through it! teaches scout some of his "best ones" (though not before pranking HIM with them first! it's okay though. scout's a good sport and gives him props LMAO)

a short list of spy's "best ones":

cleaning a glass door REALLY well and tricking the mercs to run into it at full force

oil on the kitchen floor so that anyone who comes running in will slam into the oven that engineer Just Fixed God Dammit! and destroy it

mentos in soda

scout and spy have the "same laugh" when they REALLY start howling. snorting, wheezing.... they sound almost identical. usually if they're laughing THAT hard, the rest of the mercs are looking at them like this >__> (covered in soda, can't get up from the ground because oil, etc)

obviously enjoys literature! language is one of his favorite things, though. loves learning about different dialects, slang, accents and learning the intricacies of grammar, too! likes studying the other mercs for this reason. the base is a fun, mixed bag for him!

the best secret keeper. contrary to popular belief, spy will NOT air your business if it's Serious. he might "let it slip" to medic that sniper sleeps with a stuffed animal, but he won't let anyone know that heavy has ptsd. he likes giving people shit, but not genuinely causing harm!

ah.. breaking balls as a love language.. this is something that i think is shared between spy, scout, and scout's mom. they LOOOOVE to give you shit, but it comes from a loving place. i think a lot of scout and spy's banter in exp date is like this:

it's not actually Insulting to either of them (spy calling scout a failure, scout telling spy to go to hell, etc) and is in fact more like a thing of Endearment. if you know people like this then you know what i'm talking about. idk how else to describe it KSDFKS

he is very girlfailure that thinks he's a girlboss but is actually a girlfailure and is coming to terms with his girlfailing. as i've said, spy isn't heartless. he knows he's made mistakes and knows his job has costed him a lot and now he's trying to reconcile with it. sometimes it's funny, sometimes its angsty!

is a total foodie and has a LOT of opinions about all kinds of cuisine! loves cooking with engineer and pyro (YES i think pyro is an INCREDIBLE chef. they only burn things because it's fun/funny! for the bit. you understand), and heavy has a perfect palette (just a personal hc of mine heh) so he always gets to tag along and taste test! <3

if spy is involved with any of the other mercs, scout's mom knows about it. they're in an open relationship and spy values her just like he'd value any of the mercs in a romantic relationship. she knows all of them and they're all very polite to her (ala like they are with miss pauling), but she quickly surprises them by being snarky and playful like spy and scout! she also doesn't hesitate to begin telling the mercs the most Humiliating Dirt on spy AND scout! HEHEHE

i don't think he'd cheat on her nor do i think he'd bother cheating on any of his partners. he's very open with communication when it comes to his interpersonal relationships (this is ironic to everyone but him because his relationship with his son is currently in shambles). he's good at it when it comes to romantic relationships though!

his love languages are, well, any and all of them! he loves being in love, he's a huge romantic and is not shy about showing it. will absolutely DROWN his partner in gifts and pretty words (that he really does mean!) and so on... perhaps to the point of it being a little overwhelming! at his partner's request, he'll dial it back... but he still loves to spoil his lovers, and THAT is something he WON'T apologize for! >:)

as i touched on earlier, has a good rapport with all of the mercs and pauling. he's patient with soldier and the other mercs hear him out about the bucket list idea (and are all Quietly Amused by how scout promptly ruins that for him. team dynamic ykwim). i think he's the closest with heavy (i'm a spoovy enjoyer), engineer, pyro, and sniper (BUT in kind of a "unique" way. perhaps i'll elaborate) but he enjoys the company of all of the other mercs as well!

is Informed about engineer's, demoman's and medic's research (though not on the levels they are of course) and likes being in the know about things going on around the base. he mostly shares enemy intelligence with these three over anyone else. they talk frequently and Love to gossip (engineer SWEARS its not gossiping but demo and medic are like "no. its gossip!" SKDFKSDF)!

will absolutely always enable you to treat yourself. scout, spy, medic and demo are the KINGS of "go on!! treat yourself!! :D" no matter what it is. if spy sees you really struggling about whether to get something, he'll slip it in with his own purchases and gift it to you later. "this one is from me, so you don't need to worry about compromise. <3"

in battle, he's a bit more sadistic than his teammates; likes making people squirm and is more than capable of getting under your skin. information extraction is part of his job and he treats it as such: Part Of The Job. he doesn't get a LOT of pleasure from hurting others, but he Does enjoy starring in a good revenge tale!

no, i do NOT think the world's most absent father cares about his 30 year old son's sex life nor do i think he's even "fiercely overprotective" of scout just in general. i think he knows scout is a grown man who has to make (and account for) any failures and fumbles he makes in his life. he'll be there with a kind word (and a few snarky ones!) when shit hits the fan, but he's not running around fighting scout's battles for him. scout loves battling too much to let him anyway! LOL

he teaches him things that Spy Himself values (like respect) because he... values it and since spy IS trying to be a bit more of a Dad to scout, it's also a reflection on him (to spy. scout doesn't care or think of it that way). insists on the value of self improvement! (something he himself didn't learn until he was Much Older... but scout doesn't need to know that!)

[naavispider]

What do you think Spider’s relationship with the McCoskers was like (Nash, Mary, and the boys)? Spider is apparently so desperate for a family that even Quaritch is considered a better candidate for a father than Nash so I’m assuming from that and what we’ve seen in the comics that it’s very negative, possibly bordering on abuse and neglect.

Imma preface this by saying I've only read The High Ground volume 1, so I don't know any of the background info from vol 2 and 3 about the McCoskers, however, I think I know everything I want to about them 😌 (tw abuse)

I hate to say it, but I think they were pretty awful to him. Mary and Nash were his adoptive parents, they wee the people who were supposed to love him, care for him, treat him as their own... and yet we never, not once, heard Spider even mention them. He acts like they don't exist, and for all intents and purposes, they don't.

Something must have gone extremely wrong for Spider to feel so 'parentless' despite having the McCoskers. Hell, we even see Norm and Max take a more active role in parenting him than his supposed family. Because that's what an adoptive family is: a family. True and total, despite not being blood related.

Which makes the fact that it failed even more heart-wrenching. I think this is strong evidence that points towards abuse. Spider is clearly desperate for parental figures in his life, and obviously he's not getting it from Nash and Mary. To me what makes the most sense if that they were abusive in the way they emotionally treated Spider.

they never wanted him around

they only took him because there was literally no one else

when they fell pregnant with their own kids, a lot of the caregiving fell on other adults' shoulders

they always favoured the boys more than spider

they changed spider's room into a nursery for their first child, without a plan for where spider would sleep when it arrived

the scientists were able to find him a spare room in Hell's Gate a bit further away from where the McCoskers live - it used to be a store cupboard but with a bit of help from Norm spider makes it look okay

neglect and emotional abuse take their toll on spider over the years and he comes to see Nash especially as just a person who was supposed to love him, but doesn't

he never called them mom or dad

the other scientists see what is going on but what can they do? they can't take spider in themselves

when spider gets back from the forest after a long day spent with the Omatikaya, the McCoskers just ignore his return.

"You're late Spider. Should we even bother saving dinner for you?"

"Perhaps you should ask to stay the night with Kiri and Lo'ak?"

"You got hurt? Go to the med bay, they'll sort you out."

Eventually, he just stops letting them know he's back safe, and they start to go days without even seeing each other (age 7-8)

Nash in particular starts to resent spider - "what are you doing here boy, we've just put the kids to bed!"

no one tells spider to brush his hair, take showers, brush his teeth etc.

spider takes meals where he can get them - he always misses dinner with the McCoskers because they eat early before putting the boys to bed

it's how he started to eat with the Sullys

he sometimes pops in for lunch with the science guys - he knows what time they break and also that the McCoskers aren't there

spider is never interested in playing with the McCosker's other kids (idk in my headcanon he is the only human child on Pandora even though that goes against established canon) because he would always get the blame if they got hurt or upset

the favouritism was so real that he started avoiding the family altogether

the McCoskers were obviously fine with this

Overall, terrible, terrible treatment of a child who needed a family. Even if that family was just one person. The McCoskers were chosen because they were a young couple who wanted kids of their own (they saw spider as 'practice'), and who were deemed 'reliable' - not because they actually wanted him or were emotionally available. It was a collective failure on all of the humans at Hell's Gate, because they all failed to step in and change the situation when it became clear the adoption wasn't working. Multiple failures all around.

And so, when Spider meets Quaritch - an adult whose singular parental focus is on him... who is constantly checking on his wellbeing, who gets mad when Spider puts himself in harm's way... it becmes abundantly clear why Spider falls for Quaritch as a father figure.

[lesbianspeedy]

Sorry if this is a bad question or more likely just hopeless. I’ve been trying to find a good Connor Hawke comic to read (first found out about him in Damian’s Robin solo and he and Rose were the only two things I liked besides the Robin chase but I’m a bat brat) and I’ve only read the Silver Monkey story and as I’m not a fan of Oliver Green at all (my exposure to him has in no way been positive) and I HATE Dixon and I know he’s the main writer for Connor, but I had to drop the Tim solo because of his obvious, I guess bigotry would be the right word to use here, but he is one of the three writers I refuse to let myself read anymore to try and keep my blood pressure low. Are there any Connor stories or series that exist outside of those parameters to read because I’m having 0 luck. I’m also not sure if you’re a fan of Mia or Emilio or have any go-to stories for them, but I know nothing about them and I’d like to change that if at all possible.

i understand, i do i do. while i think dixon is capable of good character writing, and he did manage to do it in connor's run, i also understand his very very obvious politics shine through all the time and it gets tiresome (at one point in his ga run he manages to write OLIVER QUEEN "both sides"ing literal nazis that he and hal fought in GL/GA). here's the best i can do for recs outside of dixon (though few and far between)

Before i start, i do wanna clarify that his character in robin is. well. pretty different from his actual pre-established character. I'm not saying you won't like him, and im genuinely begging you to give him a shot, but if youre looking for the snarky brawler type, you might be a lil thrown by the polite buddhist monk you're gonna get.

you are in luck, as his first few appearances were by kelley puckett, so if you havent already read GA vol. 2 #0, do that first! #91 and #92 are also by puckett until dixon takes over for #93, so read those if you dont mind just stopping in the middle of an arc, otherwise avoid.

now this next rec IS 1/3 written by dixon but if you can get through it, the crossover connor has with wally and kyle is enjoyable, thats Green Lantern Vol. 3 #96, GA Vol. 2 #130, and The Flash Vol. 2 #135

Connor's JLA run! JLA Vol. 1 #8-#15, #8 and #9 are specifically about connor saving and joining the league, the rest of the issues just feature him in a team setting, as, well, its the league.

if you want to read mia as well, read Green Arrow: Quiver (GA Vol. 3 #1-#10), Connor plays an important role but its almost entirely in the very last issue, and it's more about Ollie's role dynamic with him than anything else, so just read that if it tickles your fancy.

I wish i could recommend more of GA Vol. 3 for connor, unfortunately he's pretty fucking sidelined, and for every good moment theres 2 bad ones. (immediately after quiver he is shot and put in a coma for an arc, somehow this isnt the last time this happens.) Though i do recommend #11, and i think #21 is a good issue to read for ollie and him, but it also includes a pretty huge retcon to Connor and Ollie's past

Other than those, he has One-shots in Green Arrow 80th Anniversary 100-Page Super Spectacular: "One", DC Pride 2022: "Think Of Me", and DC Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero Celebration: "Hawke & Kong"

to answer your second question, my URL aint lesbianspeedy for nothin! Mia is what i breathe and bleed, my recs for her are here!

as for Emi, your best bets are Green Arrow Vol. 5 #18-#20, #22, #28-#34 for her origin (though read N52 green arrow at your own risk, even i havent properly read these), Green Arrow Vol. 6 #1-#7 (this may feel like a completely new character, i'm sorry, dc has a angsty characterisation problem, if you enjoy either of these characterisations, i'd recommend you keep reading said runs past my specific recs for more issues with her!) and Stargirl Spring Break Special + Stargirl: The Lost Children #1-#6

[kalcifers-blog]

TMA *EGOS*

PLEASE EXPLAIN MORE

Okay I'm assuming that you're asking me to give what TMA Avatar each of the Egos would be which I'll go into detail here!!! With!!!! Some bonus Picrews!! If you have any further questions don't be afraid to reach out in the ask box xxx

Before I begin I do want to mention that these are just my own thoughts!!! I would absolutely love to hear what everyone thinks/if you have alternative ideas to suggest as well :DDD

(For starters I think all of the Egos have elements of The Lonely to them- they all feel isolated in their lives for whatever reason)

Chase Brody (The Eye) - I think Chase is so unbelievably Eye coded and he's VERY Archivist coded in my brain, giving off Season 4 Jonathan Sims if you get me. The Beholding is all about paranoia, feeling like your being watched and this insatiable need to know more- which Chase pretty much checks every box in my brain (especially after Anomaly Found). Chase does have elements of The Corruption and The Buried which I think would mostly just because of The Eyes effects of his life.

Marvin The Magnificent (The Desolation) - to me I've always gotten the impression that Marvin's magic reflects his mental wellbeing and he didn't gain it naturally- a younger Marvin to me has always read as a Carrie White or a Sydney Novak type character- someone with such intensely strong powers that its only a matter of time before he destroys something- i think the thing it destroys the most is Marvin himself though, its harmed everything around him and has probably left him isolated and alone. The Desolation isn't just fire it's the destruction of everything it doesn't care for death it just drives to squeeze the pain out of you. Which for me is exactly how I've always imagined Marvin, the fact that he doesn't want to hurt others would only feed into it more.

JackieBoy Man (The Vast) - Now with Jackie he's always seemed to be the hardest character to pinpoint for me personally. But at the end I thought The Vast was the only appropriate entity for him, he's an odd mix of Crew and Fairchild where he's constantly chasing down the thrill of open air, of falling into nothingness. He also to me seems like he'd be the one Ego who'd be the most aware of how insignificant their lives are in the grand scheme of the entirety of the universe (plus as a bonus his comic is the only one this far to reference the grand universe and the sheer scale of everything.

Jameson Jackson (The Web) - JJ is so interesting to me because to me he's both puppet and puppet master. He's a people pleaser and I would go as far to say that he takes it the point no one ever truly knows who he really is, like Martin Blackwood, he's all smiles and kind gestures but he treats everyone the same, it's only when you take a step back do you realise just how surface level his gestures are. I don't think he's a bad person however, I just think he pretends to care a lot more than he actually does. He's manipulated but he knows it, hes the quickest to spot the signs of manipulation because he's seen it and he's played with the same strings- that doesn't make him immune to manipulation and I think part of him is aware of just how caught up he is in the web himself.

Henrik Von Schneeplestien (The End/The Spiral) - Henrik was almost impossible for me to settle on because there's quite a few he could fall into (I could even make an argument he'd also belong in The Eye or Corruption) but I think his true calling is The End. I see him carry death unknowingly to the people around him, he spends so much time saving lives to counter act it somehow, he can't save everyone but if he can help people just as much as he accidentally kills others then maybe he can live with himself- it obviously takes a hold of him and he's eventually unable to keep operating in this way which is where The Spiral comes in, I think the constant death surrounding him will eventually break him and unknown to him and everyone around him- the signs for this were all clear as day.

Antisepticeye (The Stranger) - Anti is not human, anti has never been human and him trying to convince you that he is one is nothing short of uncanny. He's not had the life experiences to know how humans are supposed to move, his body consists of that which is important for a human to survive but none of it works right. He kills people and robs their lives and their faces and mocks you with them. He sends people into paranoia because they know that something is wrong but they just can't tell what. He is a mask of humanity worn by a thing that doesn't know how to be human.

BONUS: Robbie The Zombie (The Corruption) - Robbie was the easiest BC yk, zombie. But I would like to think that he didn't die and come back. His zombification was slow and it started when he was alive, watching and feeling his body begin the decomposition process while he was still very much alive and aware and feeling. It slowly but surely robbed him of not just his life but his identity and he slowly started to lose himself within the rot of The Corruption as he progressed.

PICREW LINK

[tin-town]

Welcome to Tin Town!

Here's all you need to know about us!

...

Tin Town is an independent multimedia art project created for digital platforms; a thematic collection of art, literature, comics, and music, among other things!

Every addition tells the story of four characters in an industrial yet decaying future, threatened by an imminent catastrophe!

They must embark on a mission to save the world and, most importantly, break free from their old lives in the name of adventure!

What can we say? It's just another story about a group of friends saving the world!

Or is it?

...

Now, let's take a look at our beloved characters! Starting with...

Jen!

Feisty, amiable, and bearer of genuine sincerity. Her bubbly attitude makes her the heart that binds the team together, and her fiery passion makes her someone who always strives for the better! Though it is well said that the road to hell is paved with good intentions...

Ted!

The calm anchor amidst chaos; cordial and serene. His honorable character brings a soothing flow and balance, making him the dependable foundation of the group. Don’t take him for granted, however! He’s not your everyday teddy bear and can really pack a punch!

Ivy!

Decisive and down-to-earth; her low-key nature and spot-on observations make her the master key of the bunch. With an unwavering focus, she keeps her promises to heart and will do anything to see them fully accomplished, although the means taken can be... unconventional.

And... Kev!

A spunky, spirited firecracker that is sure to be your partner-in-crime! Exuding spontaneity everywhere he goes, he's a wildcard among his peers. Even so, he often finds himself stuck in a whirlwind of his own, so he may need a helping hand every now and then.

...

A little more about Tin Town:

Tin Town arises from a deep dissatisfaction with the current state of society and the life-consuming exhaustion that comes with being part of it.

Tin Town is also a wide compound of various references and interests! Art-wise, it takes heavy inspiration from retro-futurism, which helps further enhance the commentary on industrialization.

In the same way, we draw inspiration from surrealism and op-art, as it forces us to find new, unconventional ways to portray our vision.

More contemporary references include internet projects like Homestuck, which also rely on multimedia storytelling.

Most importantly, Tin Town originates from the love that comes with being human, the feeling that there’s more to life than what it seems to offer, and the experience of fighting in the name of life in a world where everything seems to fall apart.

...

So, if you managed to read to this point, we invite you to stick around to see what we've got in store! Tin Town optimally relies on public engagement, and it can only reach its full potential with your help!

These are our socials in which we may upload:

▪︎ @/tin.town on TikTok

▪︎ @/tin-town on Tumblr (You are here!)

▪︎ @/tintownofficial on YouTube

▪︎ @/TinTownOfficial on Twitter

Likes, reblogs, and overall interactions are highly encouraged to help us know that you're interested in our vision!

Thanks for reading, and see you later on!

With love, Tin Town.

🖤

[rpking99]

I hated this story line so much.

Like.... Some aspects of it are good, especially in concept, but.... Ugh.

First of, a bunch of people called out the "MY PARENTS WHERE RICH!" line as being stupid but it's.... It's not. It's not. Bruce is pointing out that crime can hurt anyone, can take from anyone. That crime in and of itself is harmful. That it is not fair and it does not pick favourites

Because money did not save Bruce's parents in that alley.

And even then... Even in context, Bruce just did a snap response. He just snapped for a second because the situation over whelmed him emotionally because of the POINT. But Selina gets all snaolt.

Second, this is the writers talking through Selina to talk down to Bruce. The stupid argument that idiots who don't read comics claim a lot. "Bruce spends his money on Bat-Toys and punches the pour and mentally unwell"

BRUCE HAS SO MANY CHARITIES! HELPING THE POUR, HELPING THE HOMELESS, HELPING GOTHAM FROM THE VERY CORE! HELPING CRIMINALS GET JOBS, VET EDUCATION!

The issue is the most of the super criminals FORCE people to follow them... Or are just aweful people!

Because those are 99% of the criminals of Gotham BY THIS POINT. There is no way with all the help Bruce pushes into Gotham, and all the bad guys he fights, and the ARMY of vigilantes he has allied with him, that the ones who are desperate make up ANY large portion of the goon forces

Third, Selina... YOU left BRUCE at the alter. YOU said "Gotham needs Batman". And BRUCE respected your wishes and left you alone. HE respected you and accepted the break up!

Fourth, Selina. What's gonna make them keep following these rules? What if an accident happens and they get confronted? What if someone DOES die?

Fifth, Selina.... It took you DECADES to become this good. It would take months, YEARS, to get them skilled enough to make a difference

Six, Selina, of you rob all the rich people.... They'll just move away. And good bye Gotham's economy

Seven, what if you train someone who's a bad guy Selina? What if some of them willingly go back to, say, Black Mask or Penguin?

Eight, how do you know this is gonna last long term, Selina?

Nine, of they want financial security... Just one or two heists, each, should be enough. Right? So why keep training them? These are millionaires, billionaires. Just take a few hundred thousand each from one job and... You're set. You have a nice home, can support yourself and your kids with plenty of back pay, and you're in the perfect position to get a job. There's no need to portray this as a PERMANENT thing

Like this story line had potential but it just tried to paint "Bruce is wrong, Bruce is a jerk" as the ONLY colour in this setting. Portraying it all as black and white

[autobot-ratchet]

MTMTE 50-52

MTMTE 50

all right, back to pain, here we go, my favorite arc in the whole damn thing

“It's the first time we've died together.” what a hilarious punch to the gut this sentence is lmAO

I do like everyone else's reactions to everybody's last words, Starscream's is actually making me a little emotional in how sincere he's being. Fdhjksl and the Scavengers watching like it's a soap opera

love how, much like the deal with the alternate quantum Lost Light that the DJD slaughtered, now this is just a morbidly fascinating bit of insight on these characters, but when I first read this I was panicking lmAO

I like how even though Megatron has sworn not to do any more fighting himself, he's happy to use his experience to guide the others. They're having banter like they're some sort of team or something :')

Rodimus really said “normal people, squishy people, I see no difference, life is life”

jhdkfsak It's not meant to be funny but it is incredibly funny how right after being like “I will never hurt another living creature” Megatron involuntarily punches the shit out of Minimus. Like when I said “womp womp” earlier I was thinking of when Megatron later slaughters the DJD, I forgot he breaks this vow even sooner than that

love all this talk about how the fool's energon might be changing Megatron's personality, knowing that it's literally just unfiltered and kinda gross-tasting and that's it. Placebo is a hell of a drug

aww Lotty is sweet with Megatron

urgh and the lure has been cast...

hook, line, and sinker, we're in it. Man, poor Censere, he never did anything to anyone...

motherFUCKER

god I remember feeling so betrayed by everyone on this page where Getaway reveals that he didn't escape from the brig, he was released by everyone. Perceptor in particular fucking haunted me because I didn't know if all of them knew about the DJD being involved and it took months to finally get to the part where we're told that only Getaway knew about them being involved and everyone else was under the impression that it was the Galactic Council lmAO I couldn't handle the idea of him throwing Brainstorm to the wolves like that

this fuckin speech by Getaway is so funny because this may as well be pulled from one of the many tumblr posts about how no one is allowed to like Megatron or else they're a bad person lmAO I fucking read this exact take on my dashboard so many times and it is still so funny to see it in the canon text after all the bitching about how the comic is not addressing how unfair it is that Megatron didn't get executed immediately for his crimes (even though it did, explicitly and immediately) and the comic obviously must be pro-fascism for trying to give Megatron depth as a character instead of punishing him constantly. Rewind shooting his past self to try to save the rest of the universe and the field of flowers on the Necrobot's planet don't count, those weren't punishment enough, they don't count because they just made him feel bad instead of killing him, he has to die for it to count. You are Getaway, you were all Getaway the whole time and you're stupid and bitter and wrong just like he is. *points at Getaway* that's you, you're the villain

oh that's right, I forgot about this extra bit

DRIFT I fuckin missed you my sweet boy. I do like him subtly turning down Pipes's invite to hang out, he really is just hard wired to self sabotage any chances of starting a friendship, he's lucky that Ratchet's so stubborn

I love Pipes saying if Drift was a short aquatic king, he'd have a massive crush on him. Your loss lmAO couldn't be me, fuckin move over gayboy I'm bout to get it lmAO

gdsfjks poor Ambulon, I'm sorry buddy, the puns are a love language I promise

oougfhjds Chromedome watching over past Rewind, HIS past Rewind... It does feel kind of weird to grieve for him even though he's technically still here. It's different though, it makes sense to grieve for that version of him, they're the same, but it's different

aww everybody pitching in to help clean up Swerve's bar... it's a temporal hot spot, everyone's paths cross here at some point........ or at least they did until SOMEBODY FUCKED IT UP

MTMTE 51

cannot fucking WAAAAIIIIIT for Tarn to get owned

love Magnus saying “Screw Getaway.” Don't apologize for swearing, you're right and you should say it

thousand yard stares at the dust Censere just turned into...

*points at Tarn* haha stupid bitch doesn't know we're gonna fight back and live, you think you've already won, dumbaaaasssssssss

Rodimus I love you and I get that you're stressed but don't ever be mean to Ten for any reason ever again

I admittedly didn't see this take a ton of times but it is burned into my brain regardless from just how angry it made me lmAO but I remember seeing people be angry that everyone decided to stay and protect (what they thought were) the organics, specifically because it was “unrealistic” that all of them would be so selfless. Honestly this take still pisses me off lmfAO the entire. Fucking reason we're here is because these people were quite literally hand-picked to be here precisely because they are the least selfish individuals on the Lost Light and weren't willing to throw their friends, crewmates, and captain under the bus just to get rid of Megatron. They're GOOD PEOPLE, the kindness is the POINT what fucking care bears villain bullshit are you ON

Ten is so good...

fucking godghsdjakfdl this god damn page with Drift and Ratchet showing up in their spiffy new designs gave me the world's most powerful heart attack when I first saw it lmfAO BECAUSE!!! BECAUSE I SPECIFICALLY REMEMBER JAMES FUCKING ROBERTS STATING ON TWITTER THAT THERE WERE NO PLANS FOR THEM TO COME BACK LIKE BARELY A WEEK OR TWO BEFORE THIS ISSUE CAME OUT!!!!!!!! So I was like “aw alright that's fair, we're kind of in the middle of an arc anyway so I get it, no real room to add them in, I'll prepare myself for like another solid year of no Dratchet” AND THEN THEY JUST HFSJDKASLHDFAJSF

aww, admittedly I don't really read the fan letters at the end of some of these comics but even just skimming the ones in this issue, I see a lot of familiar usernames. Not all of y'all were terrible lmAO

MTMTE 52

“If we can team up, anyone can,” he says. Shut the fuck up gayass, you love him lmfAO

gdfjk love Ratchet casually getting his gun eaten and also his entire body almost melted by Helex in the background, just a little low-key brush with death, fun little welcome back for ya

yeah, more feeding into the Roller is Tarn theory, “If YOU could be turned...” I'm gonna be real, I paid attention to Glitch this time around and I still think it makes more sense for Tarn to be Roller lmfAO truly the only connecting threads between Tarn and Glitch is that Glitch had outlier powers that could disable technology and he was present in Orion's old team. He was never shown to be as close to Orion as Roller was and there was never really any explanation for his powers evolving into being able to kill living tech with his voice and also getting his face and hands back and also growing three sizes taller lmfAO I ultimately don't care that much, it truly doesn't matter plot and themes-wise, but if I gotta have a bit of criticism for this comic, I'll tack that one on the board

“Did they waste their lives? Did I waste mine?” literally yes lmfAO jokes aside, this dialogue between Tarn and Megatron rules, love Megatron having to face the living embodiment of himself at his worst

not gonna lie I completely fucking forgot about Overlord lmfAO

gdhsfjk Velocity immediately putting her foot in her mouth while meeting Ratchet... also damn, First Aid talked a lot of shit huh lmAO poor guy's been through the wringer and I guess Ratchet gets the brunt of his bitterness

also fucking LOVE this conversation between Drift and Rodimus, love that Drift immediately jabs at him for not looking for him after he came clean about Overlord. I've seen people criticize this moment, saying that Roddy's apology sucked, and I'll admit, it kinda does lmAO but I think that's kind of the point. It's a very Rodimus apology, and Drift knows that and understands that even though the words being spoken aren't a very adequate apology, the intent behind them is sincere and Drift is a good enough person for that to be enough. He could hold a grudge, he's got the grounds for it, but he just doesn't want to, and fucking good for him, I'm proud of him for that. In fact wasn't there a James Roberts tweet about this where he explicitly said this was meant to reflect more on Drift than Rodimus? I somewhat remember that

pulls up a chair and some popcorn to watch Overlord and Tarn's catfight lmAO

it is genuinely so fucking funny how much Overlord picks on Tarn, I've seen plenty of really funny fan works where the two of them bicker like feuding twitter users but like. No it's completely canon, he treats Tarn like a child trying too hard to be cool and I am fucking LIVING

ah yes, there it is, Tarn ripping Kaon's head off. In addition to all the Tarn-fuckers lamenting that he wasn't their poor misunderstood meow meow, I remember a lot of people saying that Tarn only did this in response to Overlord's teasing, and like. Not really??? I mean I'm sure Overlord didn't help, he was definitely pissing Tarn off, but it's Megatron that pushed him to kill Kaon for the crime of caring about his dog. In Tarn's eyes, he was performing a mercy kill to stop Kaon from becoming “weak” like Megatron, it's really as simple as that. He literally says it on the very next page lmAO