#they would make it clear that mike and el love each other and that’s that

[miwiheroes]

Day 38: Something's Not Adding Up...

Remember, the analysis posts where they have "Day 35 etc etc" are going to be going on my byler slides

So my last byler slides post on here was to do with the lightning flashes and the imagery created from El being in the UD. I am going to be continuing to make posts on the love monologue from here on out its going to be...interesting as there is just soooo much to unpack. Today's is going to be about the fact there are lots of things that Mike says in the monologue that don't add up. There were so many other words that the Duffers could have written into the monologue to make it more convincing, but they didn't.

Straight off the bat, some people might not be convinced that Mike is lying in the first place and never will be. Unfortunately for you, one of the main themes in Season 4 is lying. SO many characters lie to each other at every single turn. However, this theme is especially very very present in the Willelmike love triangle. Lying isn't so much a theme during El's lab storyline, on her part, but whenever she's associated with the love triangle's storyline, she is associated with that theme.

Every single character in the love triangle is lying about something, and they do these things during monologues:

El lies about her life in Lenora during her letter monologue.

Will lies about his feelings towards Mike being El's in his painting monologue.

Mike lies about how he feels towards El in his love monologue.

Another main theme in Season 4 is the fact that they don't win. It was a shock for the audience when they weren't necessarily successful and didn't kill the Big Bad, just like the other seasons. Many things were unsuccessful and unsatisfying. Max's heart stops despite her fighting so hard. This theme can clearly be seen in all the monologues near the end of the show.

Funnily enough, all the monologues' aims are unsatisfying in the end because of the lies in them:

El's lies are found out and then cause her and Mike to have a huge fight.

Will's lies and self-sacrifice and his words about Mike being the heart means that he (in his mind) loses Mike to El forever.

Mike's lies means that 4 gates open in Hawkins because Max's heart stopped.

And this makes total sense because the show's main mantra is literally: Friends don't lie. Meaning lies = bad, yeah

This is the rule of three in action. There is a clear rule of three seen from the fact they are all monologues, from each person in the triangle. Meaning they all need to follow the same pattern. So in this season....Will lies, El lies, Max lies, Lucas lies, Joyce lies and Mike......has no lies? Hm, not likely. So in this season.....Will's lies mean he loses Mike, El's lies are ultimately found out, and Mike's monologue......ends up unsuccessful. But why?

Because he lied.

We've established that due to the themes of the show, the pattern in the monologues, and Season 4's overall theme of them not winning. This just means to me that the love monologue while super important, was not supposed to be wholly truthful and this big positive thing.

Now we can unpack these lies:

The first is obviously the big 'I love you' moment. I would love to talk more about this specific phrase obviously, but I more go into why this is implied to be a negative thing rather than a positive in my other monologue post and my upcoming ones. Without the depth however, I can say that the audience is not supposed to be satisfied when they hear Mike say this. The lightning strikes, Mike's face, the fact Will is behind him in the background, El's face - they all point to that.

To me, this face he makes before saying it not only screams him thinking that he's about to lie, but it screams "i really don't want to do this but i have to otherwise she's going to die." It really feels like something bad is happening rather than something the audience is supposed to want, especially with Will in the background of the shot.

El do you hear me? I love you. I'm sorry I don't say it more. It's not because I'm scared of you. I'm not. I've never felt that way. Never.

Choosing to make him say "I'm sorry I don't say it more".....Hm.

The whole point of El's argument in Episode 3 is that he never says it. Mike then goes onto say "I say it" and El throws the fact that he can't write it in his face, like she thinks it's something that he can't even fake. Not only does he never say it, he never shows it. Just because you can't say it doesn't mean that you can't show it, Mike. That's one of the big reasons why El needs Mike to say it to her - because she just doesn't feel it from him. Ergo, he shouldn't be saying sorry for not saying it more. He should be sorry for not showing it more.

Mike is completely incapable of talking to El directly about anything of the romantic sort, because he knows it's lying, and he doesn't want to feel like he's lying because....that would incriminate himself to himself (if that makes sense). Instead, he tries to perform it to other people, make sure that other people are aware that he has a girilfriend, be more romantic with her in public rather than alone. Byler has many, many scenes by themselves where they have a satisfying intimate moment. In all of Milkvan's one-on-one scenes, Mike either stumbles over his words to refuse to force a romantic moment, just makes out with her, gets interrupted before doing anything satisfying, or argues with her.

The thing about him not being scared of her... I do believe that Mike is not scared of El harming him. He was upset and shocked that she harmed Angela because it went against his idealised version of her, despite her being in the right - this led to him making passive aggressive compliments and ignoring her for the rest of the day. His reactions was enough to remind El of Brenner. Her abusive father figure who was scared of her because he thought she killed these kids violently. This then led to her projecting her anxious attachment towards Brenner onto Mike again - but maybe that's for another post.

But I am scared that one day you're going to realise that you don't need me anymore. And I thought that if I said how I felt it would make that day....Hurt more.

The first sentence is funny because we heard him say something very similar in the van scene, which means that this portion is true. He really wants to be needed. I don't know why, but this rubs me the wrong way. It makes me feel like El just began to attach herself to Mike because she was definitely not independent herself, since he gives her love sometimes and takes it away the next moment. Mike only liking the fact that she needs him is...interesting because he never says that he needs her. Wants her. Loves her? This is just an unequal relationship, as Mike has stated as one of his main insecurities when talking about it with Will.

He just wants El to feel these things that he himself does not. He wants someone to need him. That is how he wants to be loved. But the thing is....El realises that she doesn't need him to say I love you during the lab arc. My next post on the monologue will touch on El's arc more, and the fact that her needing Mike to say I love you was not because she loved him so much and wanted him to say it back. She just wanted to feel like she wasn't a total monster. But then she said to Brenner that she no longer thinks she is. So yes, Mike, she doesn't need you anymore.

But you know who does need Mike? Will. Will loves Mike in the exact way that Mike wants to be loved, which is. not. a coincidence.

But the truth is El I don't know how to live without you. I feel like my life started that day we found you in the woods.

While this sentence is not nice, don't worry, because I do believe one of the main reasons it's there is to make the audience angry. There are so many fucking shots of Will during the monologue, just to remind you of him, to remind you how much this monologue is hurting him, to remind you that these words are only happening because of him. I will be, again, talking more about this in an upcoming post.

Saying I don't know how to live without you is not proof that he loves her. I'm sure you can imagine that why this suggests that their attachment to one another is unhealthy. It is true, that he doesn't know what to do if he loses her, which is exactly why he is saying these things to win her back. Not because he loves her.

The second sentence, again, is very false and codependent as well. Saying that your life depends on someone else....uh. This also contradicts what Mike had said about stumbling on her in the woods not being fate, not being destiny, but dumb luck. Instead of an active choice that he made, just like with Will when he says that meeting him and asking him to be his friend is the best thing he ever did, it's something that he'd never meant to do.

One of the biggest differences between Mike's speech in Season 2 and Mike's speech in Season 4 is the fact that his speech in S2 instantly breaks through to Will, there is no music, it's extremely intimate. When Will says in his Van speech that Mike gives El the courage to fight on, Mike takes that and therefore gains the belief that he is the one that needs to tell her he loves her even if he doesn't, in order for her to fight on. WHEN REALLY it's Will. The proof is in the pudding:

You were wearing that yellow Benny's Burgers T-shirt and it was so big it almost swallowed you whole.

Meaningless line that deadass has no point to it, other than to remind El of a memory that he thinks is good for her. This is the only time that she smiles/laughs a little, before going back to looking upset again. This is so weird - "You were wearing a yellow shirt so I loved you". I could talk about how the colour yellow is so obviously associated with Will, but honestly, I don't know if that's a reach or not.

And I knew right there and then , in that moment, that I loved you. And I've loved you every day since.

And this ladies and germs, is the Biggest Lie. Why did the writers feel the need to have Mike emphasise the fact that he knew. right then and there. in that moment. ?

It's because..... They really wanted us to notice that they were talking about LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT which can be proven wrong by going back and rewatching the show. They really wanted no one to make an excuse and say that maybe Mike didn't actually know then. HE SAID HE KNEW.

"Maybe he just meant a little later." HE SAID RIGHT THERE AND THEN. IN THAT MOMENT.

This is why I believe the writers only put this line in to make the audience actually question the truthfulness of the whole monologue. They could have had Mike easily talk about the moment he fell in love with El. That would have been just as romantic, but no, they made it something to be provably wrong. On purpose.

Now, we have a lot of evidence from the show itself to prove that when Mike met with El, he did not love her instantly:

In the trailer for Season 1, they show Mike finding El. The first thing he says, portraying what his first thoughts were, was "That's not Will." - at the time of making the trailer, the creators had already filmed and written the season. So they knew what they were doing putting this in the trailer.

Mike cared about her and took her in, but was completely ready to prioritise Will instead - he said to Dustin and Lucas that the reason they couldn't show their parents who they had found was because they'd be on house arrest. He then tells them that he can get El to talk to his mom and his mom can "send her back to Pennhurst or wherever she comes from. And tomorrow night, we go back out, and this time, we find Will." This shows that his main priority was finding Will. He's a little careless about El at this point. He emphasises find Will! because he wants to state that he'd never meant to find El.

The next morning, Mike comes down to feed her and then asks her to go to the front and pretend like she's never met him before so that his mom can help her. She refuses. He then realises that she might be in trouble, and when she says there are, that's when he decides to keep her.

From this point onwards, he's somewhat indifferent towards her, showing her around the house, like he's teaching a toddler/ alien life force what his house is like. To me, this is not love. Mike's excitement seems more like friendship, care for another person, or just that he made this scientific discovery. When El points Will's photo - that's when he really takes priority in hiding her and keeping her. The very next scene is him hiding her in the closet (lol) - the scenes are back to back so that you don't need to question whether Mike hides her because he wants to be friends or hides her because he needs her to find Will.

The only time that Mike began to get the idea that his care for El might be romantic is because of Lucas. He was the one to say that he should 'marry her', aka a very heteronormative 80s, nuclear family thing. Mike seems annoyed that Lucas is doing this, but he is genuinely confused - not shy. He seems fed up. The moment after this conversation, he learns that being queer is a bad thing from the bullies, therefore making Lucas's daydream more of a preferable thing. Read more about this here.

Okay so that's some of the evidence from the show, but I guess we don't have to take all of that as complete evidence, because that may be up to interpretation (not really but whatever).

There is some evidence from sources outside the show too:

This is direct evidence from the show's writers that they do not believe in love at first sight - aka why the hell would they write something into the show that they do not believe in?

Above here is where Finn was asked about how 'strong' Milkvan are and about the confession. Keep in mind he was asked about the confession as the last thing. With this, Finn chose to specifically talk about how Mike didn't forsee himself to be in any kind of romantic relationship - this was something that he was insecure about. Saying romance was not on his mind even initially when he found eleven, is crazy fucking work. This had caused a lot of Milkvan's arguments to change from "Mike said he loved El at first sight!" to "Mike never meant at very first sight, just the next day or something! He was just being hyperbolic!". Girl. He literally said in his speech - Right there, in that moment. It was emphasised to you. Hyperbole would have been: "I knew in that moment that I loved you more than I love life itself" or something. Learn the definition of a hyperbole.

I also love how Finn expresses that Mike's feelings towards El are similar to how Elliott felt towards ET - which was obviously not romantic love. This is Finn explaining away all the seemingly romantic behaviour that Mike has towards her in the beginning of S1. Thankyou for that <3

(Also can we talk about how he said its his first romantic feelings for someone like we get it, he's not going to stay with El.... "going into to s5", "still a couple going into it" - OKAY WE GET IT HEEHEE)

It's so funny because all this fucking evidence I just showed you can be completely made null and void if Mike had simply said something like "I've loved you since *other moment*" "I fell in love with you that week." But no. It was a provable lie.

I love you on your good days I love you on your bad days.

Saying this stuff can't possibly mean he actually shows it. Just saying that you love someone on your good days and bad days doesn't actually mean you do, or that you're showing it. The whole reason that El wants Mike to actually say it is 1. because she needs reassurance that she's not a monster, and 2. because she doesn't feel the love coming from Mike whenever she's having a 'bad day'.

In my opinion, the only reason why he says these things is because he wants her to survive. He thinks this will make her happy because he's remembering what he did wrong - even if it's not true.

Consistently, from Season 1 onwards, he doesn't show that he loves her or consistently shows affection towards her even when she's doing something that he doesn't like:

Season 1: Only shows care for her when she's helping him find Will or saving him with her powers. Says 'What is wrong with you' three times. The first two are when Mike thinks that Will has died and therefore thinks that El lied to him, his anger and sadness mix into this lashing out. He says it again when she attacks Lucas.

Season 2: Has a very idealised version of her due to his guilt and so doesn't think of her as a bad person at all - this then fuels the fact he puts her on a pedestal, therefore making him more likely to take away that love as soon as she doesn't hold up to his standards. He doesn't see her this season until the end.

Season 3: Shows extreme frustration at her behaviour when she breaks up with him. He calls her (and girls in general) a "different species", says that he doesn't understand what he's done to deserve this despite not explaining anything to her, and says that he is the victim in this situation. He believes himself a victim of her wrath or something. This isn't even him lashing out because he's upset or sad, because he seems perfectly happy to have fun with Lucas as if this isn't a serious situation.

Season 4: Oh boy. Again, he has this idealised version of her in his head. Now that she doesn't have powers, El feels the need to perform for him again, making herself seem like she has the perfect life. As soon as she deviates from this perfect image, Mike is cold towards her. He says "what did you do" when she attacks Angela, and this is paralleled within the show with her abusive father figure (hello??). He then ignores her when she is clearly upset, and says rude comments at dinner, not caring when she storms off. He begins to try and apologise, but as soon as he's attacked for his incriminating behaviour he gaslights her by blaming other people for their problems, and calls her ridiculous. Again, he tries to place her on his pedestal that she can't reach by calling her a superhero.

I love you with and without your powers. I love you for exactly who you are. You're my superhero.

The last time that El was called a superhero by Mike, where she realised that she was never going to be enough for him unless she can be of benefit to him:

And the same exact thing in the love confession, though this time, El knows that she is not a monster, knows that she doesn't need Mike to think she's a superhero.

Mike constantly talks about how El is a superhero or his superhero - this just shows that he went from point A in the third episode to.....point A again??? The difference here is the fact that Mike used the fact she's a superhero as 'proof' that he loves her when they first argued in her bedroom, even though he didn't want to say it. Even when he seems to want to tell her i love you, he still uses this excuse as if he needs extra proof.

Another thing about the superhero thing is that it directly contrasts to Will and Mike's dynamic. Mike seems very happy to be working with Will as a team when he talks to him earlier in the season.

He would much rather work with someone as a team than work under them as their inferior. He literally expresses to Will about how insecure he feels surrounding El's superpowers and how he doesn't feel special or needed - and yet he somehow uses this as a reason to love her.

HE HAS SEVERELY POOR SELF-ESTEEM if he is using something that makes him feel worse about himself as proof that he loves her. The big difference between Milkvan and Byler is that Mike is not on the same level as El, so they never work as a team. Mike has expressed his preference for working as a team with Will.

This part of the confession is also very different from the argument scene because he is calling her "MY superhero" rather than just a superhero. This may seem more romantic on the surface, but to me it just proves how much he places her on a pedestal for her powers and how they benefit him and increase her positive image only. The next thing he does is talk about her powers, nothing to do with her personality, nothing to do with her bravery or anything like that. Awful wording from Mike.

And.....I can't lose you. Ok do you hear me I can't lose you.

This....is not a lie. Absolutely not - and that's what makes the rest of the lies so plausible. I don't need to elaborate that much on how attached he feels to El, how much he doesn't want to lose her because he wants to feel needed by someone, as a result of his poor self-esteem. More proof that he's saying all these because he doesn't want her to die, and he feels responsible for her life time and time again.

You can do anything , you can fly you can move mountains I believe that. I really do. But right now you just have to fight.

Wasn't the whole point of El's fucking argument that she can't do anything sometimes!!!! Putting El on a pedestal and claiming that she can actually do things they can't, exaggerating her powers to the point where its unrealistic, will just make El feel bad that she can't do those things. It will make her feel even more that Mike doesn't love her for who she is, but rather the idea of her.

His inflated idea of her is fuelled by the things that she has done for him, which include getting Will back from the Upside Down, it includes her saving him, it includes her defeating the mind flayer. His idea of her became so inflated during Season 2 when he couldn't see her, so much so that when she doesn't live up to that, you can clearly see that he acts cold. This is not love, even if it was, it's not fucking healthy.

Now, this is the point of the monologue where El looks over at Max. Up to this point, the vines have not stopped tightening around her throat, despite Mike trying his best to make her focus.

The fact that they put this image over Mike saying "you need to fight" is to portray El's reason for fighting. It is portraying the fact that the only reason she is able to fight is because she is reminded by the fact Max is in danger, and reminded by Mike that the only thing important right now is that she needs to stay alive.

However you read Mike's sexuality as, it is a fact that his love for El isn't romantic. He cares about her, he has a clear idea of who he wants her to be, and idealises that version. Whenever she doesn't live up to it, he takes it away. Her character arc means that she realises she doesn't need this in order to survive. I hope you can see the sheer amount of lies, vamping, him not wanting her to die, the ideas he has about her and think that they are not healthy.

This was such a long ass post, forgive me tumblr gods.

[bitofanupsidedowner]

no but why are we made out to be crazy almost every single scene where milkvan talks they can't communicate worth a damn and usually end up making each other confused, angry, or miserable. why are we the crazy ones when they are CONSTANTLY stepping on each others toes and are never on the same page.

these two haven't had a single genuine heart to heart unless you really stretch and count the "cool" thing in season one. and even that would be ironic since the more el CAN talk, the less mike knows how to talk to her.

all their private moments end up ruined and it's usually mike's fault. he doesn't know el well enough to anticipate how she'll react to things, and when she goes off her "normal girlfriend" script, mike forgets his lines. like when he tries to initiate the "love makes you crazy" thing, he thinks it's going to be enough. it was enough for will, so why wouldn't she get him, too? but she doesn't.

he expects her to have the same understanding of what is expected of them to be together and she doesn't. mike and will communicate so well they speak in code half the time, and they still know what each other mean. in stressful moments, mike tends to look towards will instinctively to give him a, "you seeing this?" and will does the same with him. they are just so completely in tune. they made more progress in their public argument where they were both actively lying than mike and el did in their private argument where they were both (until el mentioned being different) trying to be honest.

comparing THAT to milkvan is crazy. mike and el could literally have every single obstacle cleared out of their path and they would still find a way to trip each other. it's not their fault, but it's not healthy

[chirpsythismorning]

Milkvans complaining about bylers not mentioning Finn’s response about about the monologue is so funny, as if it didn’t support byler endgame even more 🤣

Finn saying I think he knows she thinks all this, bc I think there’s a reason why he says it, is because she— she— he’s been waiting to say it for a long time and she’s been waiting for him to say it for a long time. I think it’s an interesting thought, having that reciprocated. Yeah I think so. I don’t… I don’t know. I would hope… idk… great question and thought tho…

Like he literally cuts himself off before implying that Mike knows how El feels and that she wanted him to say I love you for a while, which is the very reason why he said it in the first place, despite seasons of attempting to say it, stalling repeatedly, only to fail each time up until now when there was literally no option not to in his eyes…

How is that a milkvan win?…

Not only that, but he didn’t make it sound hopeful for their future either. It’s still up in the air according to him. He makes a point of just saying interesting question over and over, only to not actually come up with an answer…

The assumption for many viewers, specifically milkvans, is that everything is great for Mike and El right now bc the monologue fixed everything. If that’s the case why does Finn end that question on a sort of question mark with it still up in the air? Least of all when you’re dealing with a queer ship on the other end, with him making much more of an effort to imply that it will be addressed. It’ll pay off vs. idk?…

This is like the casts reaction to the monologue all over again. The interviewer asked about Mike and El’s future and Finn basically danced around it saying he’s looking forward to all of their endings and is mostly interested to know if Mike will stay in Hawkins, adding at the end that he hopes Mike and El you know, find… happiness.

He’s always giving answers that work both ways. Byler endgame still fits in with whatever he says, whether milkvans want to acknowledge that or not.

Otherwise there would be no reason for him to try so hard to be ambiguous about Mike and El’s feelings, as if it’s this big spoiler… unless what’s about to go down is something most the audience won’t expect…

[gardenfairie]

This question asked by a mileven to finn wolfhard might've been one of the best proofs bylers got today lmao.

There is so much to unpack here.

"What makes miIeven so strong?" — Finn didn't address this at all. Is their "love" really so strong if he can't easily speak on it? lol. Caleb was going on about how unconditional and forever lumax's love was today. Those were the words he used. And Noah went on and on about byler's bond at his last panel in 2024.

Instead of answering how their love is so strong, Finn starts talking about how romance was the last thing on Mike's mind when he met El. This easily kills the 'love at first sight' from the monologue, which is hilarious because the questioner is asking "how does Mike's monologue impact them after season 4". So not only did he ignore the question, but he also contradicts the monologue that the questioner wants to hear more about, not once, but THREE TIMES 😭😭😭

"I dont think romance was on his mind even when he initially found eleven" "didn't perceive himself to be in any romantic relationship" "that wasn't even on his mind"

Next he's comparing el to ET: the least romantic dynamic ever. ET is an alien that a boy named elliot takes care of. So apparently that's how Mike initially saw El— like a pet he had to take care of. (This is not news and has been said multiple times by the duffers and finn by the way). Oh and ET says goodbye and leaves at the end of the movie.

"relationship with a lot of people", "feelings towards someone" — Keeping it gender neutral I see :))

"first love", "that relationship is his first romantic feelings for someone" — Usually people signify the relationship being a first because it's not the LAST either *chuckles*. Interesting how finn doesn't say anything like "that relationship is his ONLY romantic feelings towards someone" if he wanted to emphasize how deeply in love they are like how the questioner so clearly wanted him to lol

"going into season 5", "still a couple going into it" — So he said not once but twice "going into..." He seems to want to make it really clear he's ONLY referring to the beginning of the season and nothing else, because it's literal common sense. mike and el ended off season 4 together, so yeah no fucking duh they're starting off season 5 together?? Like what lol.

"that's all I can say about 5" — So zero indication that Mileven are still together in the middle, or the end, or anywhere beyond the start of season 5.

Now what would be a better more pro-mileven response to this question? Probably something like this (I'm essentially taking stuff Noah and Caleb have said about byler and lumax and mashing them together):

The romantic relationship between Mike and El is a foundational element of stranger things. What makes them so strong and how does Mike’s confession impact them after season 4?

I think what makes Mike and El so strong is their unconditional love and connection with each other, just as what Mike's confession showed. I can't give spoilers about season 5, but I'm just excited for you guys to see it. Like I think all throughout the seasons, I have have so many great scenes with millie. I can't spoil anything but Mike and El's relationship has been so important all throughout, and you'll see what they will face in season 5.

[celeborne]

if byler isn't endgame...

what was the point of making will in love with mike?

why was will used as a plot device to force mike and el back together and "fix" their relationship issues? (the writers literally took his OWN feelings for mike and his OWN painting for mike that was supposed to be something special between them only and made it all about... el? this is genuinely one of the most cruel, ridiculous and unnecessary writing decisions i've ever seen if it doesn't result in will getting the person he loves)

why did they clearly highlight the contrast between byler and m*leven's relationships all season? how mike makes el feel like a monster for being different vs how he does NOT make will feel like a mistake for being different? how mike and el had the biggest fight after mike apologised vs how mike and will made up and ended up closer than before after mike apologised? how mike and el don't have healthy communication and struggle to understand each other vs how mike and will always have genuine heart-to-heart conversations, understand each other so well and sometimes don't even have to say any words? how mike feels insecure in his relationship with el and has his trauma/feelings invalidated vs how will manages to always make him feel special, confident and gives him strength when he's struggling and needs help?

why are there so many parallels and similarities between will and el as individual characters AND also their relationships with mike?

why is mike's relationship with will different from all his other platonic friends? (and don't just say "because will is in love with him", because in some scenes, MIKE is the one who initiates things and goes out of his way for will. which reminds me, you know how everyone says mike does so many romantic things for el? like not giving up on her when she's missing, taking care of her, being protective over her, etc.? he actually did all of those things for will first)

why did mike vent to will about his fight with el (the fight he claims they "can't come back from") without directly saying what the fight was about? all he said was "maybe i should've said something... and if i would've said that thing, then maybe she'd want me there with her." so... you're venting to your friend and you can't even specify that your big fight was about not being able to say "i love you"? why was it kept so secretive if you truly love her and it's no big deal? you've said you love her in front of a group of people before anyways, even when will was there, so why can't you even say the words to him while venting?

why did mike vent to will (again) and say that if he would've explained himself to el, maybe she would've taken him with her? will says he thinks it's scary to open up like that, to say how you really feel, but shouldn't mike and el already know how they both feel about each other at this point? el heard mike say he loved her in season 3, and at the end of the same season, she said "i love you too" before kissing him. they have kissed a lot, sent letters to each other and do lovey dovey things, which should make their feelings quite clear?????

and what was the point of this line from will?

"because... what if... what if they don't like the truth?"

we're supposed to be talking about el here. sure, will was subtly speaking about himself, and we know that as the audience. but mike doesn't. this conversation is about el, so mike still thinks will is talking about her. why on earth would he NOD after will says the part about how she might not like the truth? mike knows that "the truth" she WANTS to hear is "i love you", so why wouldn't she like the truth? why did mike nod at what will said and why did he agree with him? what is actually even happening in this scene??????????????

why did they make all the canon couples stand together in the final shot of season 4, with mike and will standing together too?

what was the point of ANY of this if they weren't planning on making byler endgame?!?!?!?!?!

[thebylertheory]

"If you think El doesn't need to end the show in a relationship and she can be happy without one, then that goes for Will too" here's why you're wrong.

The reason why it's different for Will, whether you like it or not, IS because of his sexuality. Homophobia and Will's belief that he'll never find romantic love because of him being gay is a core part of his character. Romantic love, or the lack thereof, has been an important part of his story for at least the past two seasons. He already has an abundance of love from his friends and family. He's not lacking on that part. But he wants romantic love. That is what he desires. They have made that clear. And they have gone out of their way to show us that he wants that with MIKE. And they have even taken it a step further and shown us why Mike and Will would be good together. They bring out the best in each other and they make one another feel good about themselves. So, for them to do all of that and then end the show by reaffirming Will's belief that he was right and he's never going to find love because he's gay is a very cruel and pointless ending for his character. He has suffered enough. He should be allowed to end the show with the boy he loves and believing that he's worthy of that type of love. He deserves to have the relationship he's always wanted and thought he would never have.

Romantic love has never been an important part of El's story. Since season 1, she has been trying to find a family/home and she has been trying to find out who she is in a world she was isolated from since birth. That is the most important part of her story and character. Her relationship with Mike has never been the main focus. In fact, she does better and she thrives more and she sees the most development as a person when her and Mike are separated. They have shown us that their relationship holds her back and that they're not good for each other. They don't make each other feel loved or good about themselves. Now, that's not to say I don't think El should EVER be in a relationship. She can! But a romantic relationship, especially one with Mike, is not as important to her story as it is to Will's. In fact, a relationship with Mike has done more bad than good for her. She doesn't NEED romantic love or a relationship with Mike for her happy ending. Her happy ending can consist of her just being able to live comfortably with her family and knowing who she is and feeling confident in her identity. That ending is what will be the most fulfilling for her character.

[eeriesilkworm]

The Byler x Little Women (1994) parallels were more direct than you probably thought

The trailer for season 5 is (hopefully) dropping soon! So why not bring back an older Byler theory to help wane your inevitable byler doubt? (And a thank you to @thewisewill80sbyers for supplying some awesome parallel gifs)

Part 1: What we already know

Mike is Laurie. Laurie is a wealthy young man who feels ordinary and directionless. Though kind and free-spirited, he’s bored, insecure, and pressured to conform to gendered expectations of manliness. He finds purpose by attaching himself to people he sees as extraordinary.

Mike mirrors this. He idealizes the heroic and fantastical—superheroes, sci-fi, D&D—where he can feel important. In reality, he often feels inadequate. What he doesn’t see is that his true brilliance lies in his loyalty, compassion, and heart.

El is Jo.

Jo March is awkward, clumsy and intense. She has a special gift (writing), which sets her apart. She sometimes has emotional outbursts due to the intensity of her emotions. Above all, she has relentless need for independence and freedom. She envies men for this reason.

El is also markedly different from others—her special gift is her powers—but they are as burdensome as they are extraordinary. She too struggles to fit in, often coming across as awkward. She lashes out when she feels powerless or trapped, due to the intensity of her trauma.

Will is Amy.

Amy March is sensitive and pragmatic. She matures the most in Little Women, growing from an impetuous child to a poised young woman. She is an artist, but she's also pre-occupied with what others think of her. Amy believes she must sacrifice romance in order to marry well to secure stability, and ensure the happiness of others.

Will follows a similar path. Once the smallest and most protected member of the party, Will is now described by Ross Duffer as, "coming into his own as a young man" in Season 5. He is also described as sensitive and is an artist. Like Amy, he is resigned to sacrifice the desires of his own heart, to avoid ruffling feathers.

Part 2: Season 4 parallels

Here’s where things get a little tangled, love triangle-y and anachronistic. Bear with me.

In Little Women, there’s a 4 year time jump between childhood and young adulthood.

In Stranger Things, the time jump between Seasons 3 and 4 is only eight months, but due to the rapid emotional development of the characters—and the visible aging of the actors—it feels longer.

This dissonance actually works in favor of the parallel, and may be why it was chosen.

Laurie confesses to Jo

Laurie clumsily confesses his love for Jo in a moment of desperation, afraid that he will lose her. This loosely mirrors Mike’s clumsy attempt in season 3. It also mirrors both his fight with El in Vol 1 and his monologue in Vol 2.

Jo rejects his suit, insisting they could never work together or make each other happy.

She says they would quarrel (fight) too much.

This reminds me of El confronting the issues in their relationship in Vol 1, while Mike became evasive and feigned obliviousness. Like Laurie, Mike refuses to accept the truth of this connection.

Something SUPER important and subtle about this confession scene in Little Women (1994) Before Laurie confesses to Jo, he is complaining about the responsibilities and expectations set by his grandfather: Laurie: "[Grandfather] is exceedingly bent on locking me up in one of his offices... If I don't, I'd have to defy [him]. I can't go against the old man. When I imagine myself in that life, I can think of only one thing that could make me happy." So, Laurie is resigned to live a life that feels inauthentic and unfulfilling, but if he must do it, he at least wants to do it with Jo. (Someone who can make him feel special by proxy instead of feeling special himself). If we're interpreting Mike as a repressed homosexual (and we are, to be clear), then does this parallel not make complete sense? Mike, internally: "If I have to be with a girl, if I have to model the relationship of my parents... I want it to be with El."

Movement, travel and emotional distance

Both Jo and Amy leave home after this time jump: just as El and Will leave Hawkins at the end of season 3.

At this point in Little Women, Jo and Laurie are separated by a literal distance. In Stranger things, Mike and El are also separated by an emotional distance, in which they struggle to be truthful with one another about their feelings, even once reunited.

Jo goes to New York alone to pursue being a writer; mirroring El’s "arrest" and solo journey at NINA to recover her powers.

Amy is in Europe working on her painting, and Laurie discovers her there as a more refined and mature version of herself. They are now in proximity to each other without Jo's presence, clearly mirroring Mike and Will being partnered together in California.

This proximity starts off a little awkward, though: Laurie is now attracted to Amy, but Amy appears emotionally unavailable due to her courtship with Fred Vaughn.

The Painting is Fred Vaughn Now, it’s possible Will finds another temporary love interest in season 5 to mirror this plot-line. However, I posit that Will's painting itself is Fred Vaughn in this parallel. Because to Mike, the painting represents an obstacle to Will’s heart. If the painting isn’t for him, then he’s led to believe Will has feelings for someone else. He immediately asks about it at the airport—not out of idle curiosity or politeness, but to quietly probe for the truth.

This moment parallels Laurie’s reunion with Amy in Europe. When he first sees her, he quickly asks Aunt March if Amy and Fred are engaged. Laurie, like Mike, is trying to determine if the door is still open.

Both Laurie and Mike are given vague, unsatisfying answers. Aunt March replies, “Not yet,” implying that an engagement may be imminent.

Will, meanwhile, doesn’t offer the painting to Mike, nor does he say it was meant for someone else. Neither Laurie nor Mike receives the emotional reassurance they’re seeking—and both walk away feeling displaced.

In-authenticity and conflict

Another striking parallel between Little Women and Stranger Things lies in how both Laurie and Mike begin to act strangely—almost out of character—when reunited with their respective love interests.

Laurie is drinking, smoking and flirting with women, neglecting the music he once claimed to love. He drifts through his days aimlessly, cynical and disillusioned.

Mike is putting up a front of being nonchalant and “cool” in front of Will. He avoids eye contact, doesn’t hug Will, and struggles to speak to him directly. Even his wardrobe choices reflect this shift. Costume designer Amy Parris revealed that Mike’s Season 4 California look was him, “trying to make it work”—a subtle nod to the fact that Mike is performing a version of himself, rather than being himself.

Disappointed with their reunion, Will and Amy both hold their love interests accountable for their behavior.

The clearest parallel here lies between Laurie and Amy’s picnic in Little Women and the Rink-O-Mania scene in Stranger Things. These confrontations don’t go over well: Laurie and Mike are extremely defensive and frankly, butt-hurt.

Amy calls out Laurie for squandering his potential and living without purpose. Laurie then lashes out in jealousy, criticizing her for wanting a practical marriage.

Likewise, at Rink-O-Mania, Will tries to express his hurt. He points out how distant Mike has been, how one-sided their communication has become. Mike, like Laurie, deflects. He places the blame back on Will, saying he should’ve reached out more.

Accountability and re-connection

Laurie and Mike then extend an olive branch to Amy and Will, taking accountability for their behavior. Their apologies are more about actions rather than words.

(It's giving: "I didn't say it." "You didn't have to.")

Both directly reference something their love interest said in the previous argument, revealing that—despite their initial defensiveness—they had been listening all along.

Check out this interesting parallel:

Laurie takes Amy's advice about going to London—he's doing this to earn back her respect and prove his worth as a romantic suitor.

Amy, during their fight: "...why don't you go to your Grandfather in London and make yourself useful?" Laurie, in his apology: "I've gone to London to make myself worthy of you."

Mike uses coded language to indicate that he's ready to let go of the "cool guy" facade and be closer to Will again.

Will, during their fight: "Well, we used to be best friends!" Mike, in his apology: "I think it'll be easier if we're a team. Friends. Best friends."

Shared loss and tragedy

When the middle sibling Beth dies (spoiler alert?) Jo, Amy and Laurie return home to be with family and grieve together.

Similarly, El, Will and Mike return to Hawkins very shortly after Max's death.

This is a parallel to be sure, but there are very notable differences.

For one, by this point in Little Women Laurie and Amy are now married!

However in Stranger Things, Mike and El are technically still together, even if they're not exactly on speaking terms.

So where does this lead us for season 5?

Part 3: Season 5 predictions

The Little Women parallels might end in season 4, but it feels extremely... unfinished. I think if they continue, it will focus more closely on El's arc than Byler. Hear me out.

Predictions for El: Confrontation and reckoning

While in New York, Jo meets Friedrich. Friedrich is older, but he feels like an equal to her. He shares her love of literature. Unlike others who simply praise Jo, Friedrich critiques her writing with honesty and respect. At first, Jo finds this hard to swallow. But eventually, his challenge helps her grow—not just as a writer, but as a person. They slowly fall in love.

Now, El doesn't have another love interest in season 4 and I can't imagine her getting a new one in season 5, so this is where the parallels might get a little... creative. (Think Fred Vaughn is the painting creative).

Perhaps for El, Friedrich represents someone like her. Not a love interest, but an equal.

A reckoning. A challenge.

I posit that Friedrich is Henry.

After returning from New York, Jo is inspired to start a school to educate children (specifically girls). Friedrich himself is a professor.

Likewise, I think we can expect to see El educating reforming children like her. She will be inspired by Henry: not because he's a good person (because he isn't) but because she can do what he couldn't.

She will end the cycle of abuse and choose not to become the monster.

Predictions for Byler: Secrecy and subtley

In the 1994 film (which these parallels are based on) we don't get a lot of information about how Laurie and Amy got together. Their love story happens quietly, away from the eyes of the other characters and even the audience. They fall in love in Europe and marry before returning home, revealing the news gently and with some hesitation.

I think Stranger Things may take a similar approach with Mike and Will.

Instead of a dramatic, last-minute confession in the climax of battle, I predict that Mike and Will’s romantic connection will begin to develop much earlier in the season than expected—but quietly.

Their relationship may be portrayed with ambiguity on the surface, but still carry clear romantic coding beneath: shared looks, coded language, physical closeness, a clear shift in tone. Enough to let the audience know something is happening, even if the characters themselves aren’t saying it out loud.

It won’t be a loud reveal: It’ll be a secret. Like Laurie and Amy, they may choose to keep their evolving relationship private for as long as possible.

The reveal of their relationship will be gentle and hesitant: not just to the other characters, such as their friends and family, but to us. The audience.

Don't worry, I still expect there to be a Byer kiss and confession scene, I just think their actual relationship will quietly evolve in privacy.

Well, that's all for now folks. I'll edit this or add another part if I make any more connections or predictions. What do you guys think?

[somethingvicked]

Not a Sound

An Eddie Munson one-shot.

warnings: mentions of death, Vecna, the Upside Down, demobats, vaginal fingering, handjob. No use of Y/N.

 ”No way,” Steve said, cutting through the air with the palm of his hand to emphasize his words. ”We stick together, no matter what. We’ll all sleep in the living room, it’s safest.”

You sighed. Steve’s reasoning was logical – you were all stuck in the Upside Down, but… it surely didn’t work with what you wanted. Or Eddie. You could see the disappointment in his big, dark eyes, as well as how his plump bottom lip suddenly poked out as he pouted.

Until recently, you and Eddie barely knew each other, but since you had been a part of the gang all the way from the start (when Will disappeared and El showed up) you knew of him of course, being close with Dustin, Mike and Lucas.

And, you couldn’t deny you found the metalhead attractive. His wild curls, chocolate brown eyes and full lips. His hands that were always gesturing about something, fingers decorated with rings. You knew he played the guitar and you could just imagine how it would feel holding his hand, feeling the calluses on his fingers. Or more…

You had asked Dustin if Eddie was single, and the boy had rolled his eyes – you didn’t know why at the time – and told you to ask his Dungeon Master out. You were about to do just that when the nightmare hit. Chrissy Cunningham found dead in the Munson trailer, apparently wrecked beyond recognition. Eddie nowhere to be found, making him the prime suspect.

Even though you barely knew Eddie, you had agreed with Dustin that there was no way Eddie could have done that. Something else was up.

And it was confirmed when you all managed to track Eddie down and he told you what had happened. How it had resembled a scene out of The Exorcist and he couldn’t do squat about it.

Then it was your turn to speak. You told him the truth about the Upside Down, about the monsters and how it had all started three years ago with El and Will Byers disappearance.

You had to give Eddie credit – he was still scared and confused but he took it way better than most people would’ve.

One would have thought that the fact that more teenagers fell victim to the "curse", as Dustin had named it, would be enough to clear Eddie but no.

Fred died. Patrick died. And Max was next.

You had to stop it and clear Eddie’s name. That’s why earlier that evening you, Steve, Nancy and Robin had gone out on Lover’s lake, trying to find the gate where the monster, now nicknamed Vecna, had come through to kill Patrick. If there was a gate through then there must be a way to close it, right?

Steve had dove into the lake and come up a moment later to tell you he had found it but he had barely gotten the words out when something dragged him under.

Nancy hadn’t hesitated a second but dove into the lake, you and Robin quickly following suit. Eddie joined you, you noticed, as you came out on the other side.

Steve had nearly been strangled, and bitten by the monster bats, now named demobats. Robin had twisted an ankle and the rest of you were soaked through the bone and tired after the fight.

You couldn’t help but admire Eddie – after the bats had flown away – how he fought against them, swinging the oar as if it was a sword. It made your core tingle.

It was decided you would go to Nancy’s house to fetch her guns, so you would have something to defend yourself with, before trying to find a way back.

You and Eddie walked beside each other, a little bit slower than the others, talking.

”So...” Eddie said, smiling a little. ”This a regular thing for you guys?”

You chuckled. ”I wouldn’t say ’regular’. But yes, it happens more often to us than other people.”

”Damn. Here I am making up monsters and other worlds for my party and half of them has already experienced it in real life,” Eddie said, shaking his head. "They must find them lacking."

”Dustin and the others love Hellfire,” you said, ”and they love you as their DM. I haven’t seen Dustin be in so awe of someone since he met Steve.”

Eddie snorted, looking away. ”Yeah, Steve Harrington... would you think me a loser if I admit that sometimes… sometimes I’m a little jealous of how close he and Dustin are? It’s stupid, right? Why should I care what that little punk thinks, but… I do.”

You took his hand and squeezed it. ”I don’t think you’re a loser. I think it’s sweet that Dustin’s opinion means so much to you. That shows he means something to you and it makes me glad, because Dustin means a lot to me too.”

Eddie smiled, looking down at your joined hands. ”Would you… think me a loser if I admit that I’ve all but pumped him on information about you too?” he then asked, his voice low. ”What’s your favorite food, favorite movie, what music you listen to... if you have a boyfriend?” he continued, looking into your eyes. You hadn’t even noticed that both of you had stopped walking, now just standing on the path and looking at each other.

You shook your head. ”N-no,” you whispered. ”Because… I asked Dustin if… if you were seeing someone and he told me to ask you out.”

Eddie inhaled deeply, his lower lip disappearing in between his front teeth. You wanted to have that lip between your teeth, feeling irrational jealousy.

”Hey!” Steve barked, making both of your heads snap towards him in sync. ”Keep up! We need to stick together.”

 Both you and Eddie rolled your eyes but increased your pace, still hand in hand, so you were soon caught up with the others.

An unpleasant surprise awaited you at Nancy’s house though. It turned out that her guns weren’t there, that it seemed the whole house was stuck somewhere in the past.

So now you had no guns to protect yourselves with and no real idea how to get out. And outside you could hear the sounds of demobats and who knew what else.

”I say we stay here for a couple of hours, catch our breath,” Steve said, clearly still in pain from the bites of the demobats. Robin seemed to agree, sitting down and resting her twisted ankle.

”I'll get the first aid kit,” Nancy said, ”that should be here at least.”

After Steve’s wounds had been disinfected and patched up with something better than Nancy’s makeshift bandage and Robin had gotten a cooling pad to rest against her ankle you cleared your throat.

”Alright, it’s probably good if we try to get some sleep. Me and the girls can stay in Nancy’s room and you and Eddie can take Mike’s.”

Most of all you wanted to share a room with Eddie, but that would be too obvious – Steve would probably accuse you of being insane for even thinking about being intimate in a moment like this. But there was a possibility you could sneak away when the others had fallen asleep and meet up in another room.

”No, no way,” Steve said, shaking his head. ”We’re sticking together, it’s safest. And we can take turns keeping watch so nothing gets in. We’ll all sleep in the living room.”

Robin snorted. ”Who died and made you general?” she said ironically, then her eyes widen and she glanced over at Eddie, remembering that someone – more than one – had died in fact. And Eddie had witnessed one of them.

”It’s a good plan,” Nancy agreed with Steve. ”We can bring down the mattresses to make it more comfortable but I agree it’s safer sticking together.”

Eddie had that disappointed look on his face again, but he nodded, realizing that bickering about it wouldn’t do any good.

You each dragged the mattresses from the rooms down to the living room and Eddie gave you a sudden flirty grin when he pulled his mattress next to yours.

You smiled back, glad to have him close at least. Maybe you could wait until the others was asleep and sneak away, to the bathroom, perhaps?

You all laid down and Nancy said she would take first watch, a kitchen knife in close reach on the coffee table, should any monsters come inside.

You and Eddie laid on your mattresses, holding hands, his thumb rubbing over your knuckles, while your free hand was playing with his hair.

As soon as Steve’s snores started and Robin’s breaths evened out you gave Eddie a wink and started to get up from your mattress.

”Where are you going?” Nancy immediately asked.

”Umm… bathroom,” you said, blushing, even though you knew she couldn’t see it in the darkness.

”I’ll go with you. Eddie, you’re still awake? You keep watch while we go.”

”I can go with her to the bathroom,” Eddie offered and but Nancy clearly didn’t catch the drift. ”That makes no sense. We’re both girls, it’s safer if I go into the bathroom with her – you would need to wait outside the door, that leaves you vulnerable.”

You sighed, knowing that unless you wanted to reveal yourselves completely you had to do what Nancy said.

After you came back you laid back on your mattress, back to holding Eddie’s hand and stroking his face.

Eddie stroked your cheek, letting his finger follow the outline of your lips. You couldn’t resist pressing a kiss to the tip of his finger.

He inhaled sharply, his eyes widening. Despite the darkness in the room you could’ve sworn you saw his pupils dilate.

You licked your suddenly dry lips, the tip of your tongue sliding over Eddie’s finger, making his nostrils flare.

You slid your hand down from his face, down his chest, his firm stomach and in beneath the shirt, playing with the trail of hair leading down into his jeans. You felt the cold metal of his handcuff belt buckle and it made you rub your thighs together, already feeling the material of your panties sticking to the lips of your cunt from the wetness.

Eddie moved one hand down to your breast, carefully squeezing, making you whimper, and he immediately shook his head, giving you a teasing grin that clearly said: ”don’t make a sound.”

Eddie swiftly ran his hand down to your jeans, popping the button open and slid his fingers inside, pulling the crotch of your panties aside to get to your pussy. He gasped when he felt your wetness and you gave him the same grin, waving your free finger in his face. ”Don’t make a sound.”

Eddie rolled his eyes at you but he got serious again when you tried to undo his belt, as silent as possible so Nancy wouldn’t hear. Quickly he helped you with his free hand, so you were finally able to slip your hand into his boxers, finding him rock hard and leaking.

Now it was your turn to nearly gasp, but Eddie quickly put his free hand over your mouth, muffling the sound. Without a beat you started sucking on his thumb while your hand started to pump his cock in the same rhythm.

Eddie bit his lip so hard you thought it was going to bleed as he tried to buck his hips against your hand as silently as possible, all while his fingers teased your slit.

He hadn’t pushed one inside yet, just sliding them through your folds, soaking them thoroughly in your wetness, making sure to rub against your clit every time he moved them upwards.

You bit his thumb, a silent prayer and he gave you that cocky grin again as he finally pushed his middle finger inside, his thumb on your clit.

You felt the metal of his rings against your cunt, all nerves on end, but they had grown warm from your body heat, so it wasn’t uncomfortable.

The barrier of your jeans muffled the wet sounds as Eddie fingered you, you sucking on his thumb as hard as you could whilst jerking his cock harder and harder, precum leaking down from his tip and spreading every time you went up and then down.

You wanted to pull your hand out and taste it but both of you were too lost in the sensation now.

You felt the tingling feeling starting to spread from your pussy, up to your belly and along your spine, making you trying to spread your legs wider, pressing against Eddie’s hand.

He now used the heel of his hand to rub your clit, so he could put more fingers inside you, first his index finger joined the middle one and then when you nodded encouragingly he slid the ringfinger inside again. You felt so full, and yet it felt like it wasn’t enough. Not enough and yet too much at the same time.

You weren’t sure how you would be able to keep quiet as your orgasm approached and Eddie seemed to have the same struggle as you, sweat dampening his bangs, the veins on his neck standing out as you felt his cock twitch in your grip.

Quickly Eddie turned his head to the side and bit down on the mattress as you felt his cock spurt, his warm seed spilling all over your hand and the inside of his boxers. Despite your own situation you couldn’t help but smile, even forgetting about your own pleasure for a second as you kept pumping him until he had grown completely soft in your hand, clearly with nothing more to give you.

Then Eddie perked up, increasing his pace, his fingers inside you crooking and seeking for your special spot, finding it without a beat, making your eyes widen at the sudden pleasure slamming into you. You bit down on Eddie’s thumb as hard as you could, closing your eyes in bliss and at the same time fighting against the impulse of screaming your euphoria to the heavens.

Eddie kept going until you had sunk back like a sack of vegetables, feeling totally boneless.

You opened your eyes and you and Eddie grinned at each other. He removed his hand from your mouth, shaking it a little.

”Ow,” he silently mouthed at you and you bit back a chuckle.

”Sorry,” you mouthed back, removing your hand from his boxers, looking at the remnants of his cum covering your hand. Without another beat you started sucking on your own fingers, making Eddie gape at you.

Not to be outdone he quickly mimicked you, sucking your juices from his own fingers.

Then, he looked at you, tilting his head like a puppy before moving closer and carefully kissing you, making you taste yourself on his lips, as he surely did on yours.

Then you heard Nancy getting up and you froze, wondering if you had alerted her to what you were doing. But she walked over to Steve’s cot and shook him.

”Hey,” she said softly, ”it’s your turn to keep watch. But if you’re tired I can keep going. You lost a lot of blood after all.”

”Maybe we can both get some rest,” Steve said, deep in thought. ”It has been rather calm, right? Nothing happening?”

”Nothing,” Nancy confirmed, making you bite your lip to stop the laughter bubbling up inside you from coming out, ”not a sound.”

You supposed she was right about that.

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[strangelysilver]

He does NOT like Will? It's clear as glass never looked at Will with love, only happiness, meanwhile you have the MILEVEN pizzeria scene and the van scene, he CLEARLY looks at Will that way because of EL

Look, Mike's gazes with Will or El can be as romantic or platonic as you want to interpret them. I personally don't really use facial expressions as proof towards a ship. They're more of a fun, cute thing to make GIF sets of.

What DOES convince me of a ship is when the narrative arcs of a story are set up in a way that only makes sense if that ship is endgame. And that's what I think Byler has.

Will's painting lie is a Chekhov's gun.

Will pushing Mike and El together makes him a Cyrano.

Mike's odd behavior towards Will has to be addressed, and there are not many plot reasons why a guy might be suddenly hesitant to express affection to his childhood best friend.

Mike saying "we're friends, we're friends" when Will wasn't implying anything more is potentially one of the most common romance tropes of all time.

Season 4 ends with Mike and Will promising each other to work as a team, and then the final shot shows them paired up alongside the show's canon couples.

El wants to feel normal, and Mike views her as a superhero. Mike wants to feel needed, and El's journey throughout the series has been to become independent and to develop herself from a lab kid with no sense of self into someone SHE wants to be, not what someone else wants her to be.

Will is in love with MIKE. It's not just that he's gay and afraid that his best friend will shun him for it, it's specifically written that he's in love with Mike. The writers didn't need to do that if just wanted the conflict to be Mike potentially being homophobic.

Going back to the painting, letting a gay kid successfully sacrifice his feelings to push a straight relationship together is a terrible message in a show about social outcasts and rejects.

Usually, a heartfelt confession of love is used to dramatically save the day. But Mike's big monologue... didn't. The ending of Season 4 is simply not what you would expect after one of those kinds of world-saving love speeches.

Mike and El are not talking after the monologue. Why would this be true, if the monologue was the major turning point in their relationship? Narratively, it should have brought them closer together, but it didn't.

El says that Mike makes her feel like a monster, that he thinks she's a monster. Will says that Mike makes him feel like less of a mistake, like maybe he isn't one.

Sorry, I have to mention the monologue again. As you mentioned, Mike looks happy with El when they're at the pizza place-- they're talking and laughing. So why is it that after the monologue, after Mike finally tells her what she has been begging for him to say for half a season, El is no longer talking to him?

The audience KNOWS that Mike isn't homophobic. There is an entire scene in Season 1 where he shoves one of his bullies in front of the entire school, despite knowing that he's going to suffer for it, because the bully was making fun of Will by calling him queer. So why else has there been so much build up around Will's inevitable coming out? Like I said earlier, this is compounded by the fact that Will is specifically and intentionally in love with Mike. Why make it such a huge plot thread?

This is already way too long, so I'll cut it there. But I hope I made it clear that it's not the glances or the plentiful parallels to canon couples or the scene direction (though there is some compelling and interesting evidence in that area) that convinced me of Byler happening. There is no debating that Byler's relationship has been built up for three seasons, but I wasn't even a romantic Byler believer until I watched Season 4. It was Season 4 that made me realize that there is no other satisfying narrative ending.

[miwiheroes]

The Interruption Trope: Mileven and Byler

A common argument I hear from Milevens in like comment sections and in people's asks sometimes is that Mike and El do get interrupted during different romantic scenes in S3 and S4, which would then apply them to the same interruption trope that Byler has and other ships like Lumax.

Yeah because interruption trope = endgame sure

The huge difference I find between Byler's interrupted moments and Mileven's interrupted moments is the fact that with Byler's - the intimate moment of the conversation has happened. Let's take a look at some particular examples.

So in the scene where Jonathan interrupts them, they don't get interrupted in the middle of Mike and Will flirting, they get 'interrupted' at the end, which causes them to turn around quickly. It more plays off as an interruption of the clear romantic tension between them that would have occurred in an extremely unsubtle way had Jonathan not been there. And we know that the Duffle Bags wanna be subtle or some shit idk

Then again, in the scene where Mike is in Will's room, they have an uninterrupted intimate moment that does get finished. Mike ends up saying what he wants to say, and they have a moment with uninterrupted eye contact where they're clearly so in love with each other it gives Will the confidence to bring his painting along with them. The interruption comes, again, in the middle of their non-so-subtle romantic tension.

SAME THING with the scene on top of the car. They don't get interrupted in the middle of a sentence or in the middle of telling each other something. The audience gets as much out of that scene as possible. The conversation actually has a moment of Mike realising that saying 'I love you' isn't something he actually wants to do and he needs to explain himself to El and hopefully make up with her instead. Then Will alludes to his own feelings. The interruption comes AGAIN when they're staring at each other, not when they're about to say something.

AND ONCE AGAINNNN another 'interruption' which is not really an interruption but still counts. Mike doesn't get interrupted in the middle of putting his hand on Will's shoulder, in fact he keeps his hand there for a moment after getting interrupted. This is perfect because the interruption still leaves us feeling satisfied with the tension whilst not feeling too frustrated there wasn't more. The scene still had a point to it. Because it was Will telling Mike that One's not dead yada yada

A non-byler example would be Lumax, where they get 'interrupted' in S2 during their talk on top of the bus. They have a very good conversation where they open up to each other and the audience gains more information about Max's character and her motivations and things she is self-conscious about. AND we get a super cute moment between Lucas and Max where they smile at each other. The interruption comes during this romantic tension moment just like with Byler, in order to make the audience feel satisfied and wanting more, but not in a negative way.

But with Mileven, nothing actually happens. There are no pay-offs with their interrupted scenes. It just makes them more frustrating as a couple rather than having romantic tension.

There's a reason you feel so much more enlightened by Byler's scenes in Season 4 than Mileven's scenes (they barely have any heart to heart scenes but when they are about to, it gets interrupted) is because they actually have substance and a real purpose.

For instance in this scene, all they do is have some jokes and some laughs, and when Mike is finally about to say something to her (some people suspect he's about to tell her he loves her, but honestly why would he be saying 'I guess' to that.., i think he was about to say sorry) Argyle interrupts and instead they have a funny scene that ends in THIS INSTEAD (below), which then makes the scene between Mileven all about Will's feelings once again. It is much easier to make it all about Will if Mike and El never actually have a heart to heart moment...

Another interruption trope with Mileven happens in season 2, when they're about to kiss, despite Mike literally not even looking down or moving forward like El is, instead standing statue-still looking more afraid. I would love to talk about that aspect of the scene more but really this is about how they get interrupted - obviously there are a lot of interrupted kisses in tv shows where the couple is endgame and ur supposed to root for them. Of course, but I honestly would believe in it much more if Mike had looked more willing to kiss her and they had a short of him looking down or something but they didnt. so

Another clear example of this interruption being used is during season 3. Again, the interruption is not used to increase romantic tension, it is to increase our frustrated feelings towards their relationship. Mike tries to hard to have a heart to heart with El in this scene, even though he really doesn't want to say it. Our frustration goes both ways with this one - with Mike for not saying what he means, with El for not getting what Mike is trying to say at all. And when the interruption comes, it almost feels like we want it in some way. At least, that's how Mike clearly feels from how fast he grabbed that walkie oops-

So instead of feeling like we earned something and we got something out of that scene, it feels a little pointless. But there is really a point to it, it's to make us much more frustrated with their dynamic than make it likeable. That's why so many GA members started to get tired of them after S3 and S4 - when they had more of these interruption moments.

[willthewiz]

Jonathan Capturing the Right Moment

In this scene, Jonathan says he'd rather observe people than talk to them. And then says:

“People don’t really say what they're really thinking. When you capture the right moment, it says more.”

We'll get back to that later.

Here is Jonathan in season 4:

In the van scene, the camera only cuts to Jonathan when Will is telling a lie. Remember, Jonathan said people don't say what they're really thinking (the truth). But he captured the right moment, when it says more. Jonathan knows what Will is actually saying are his feelings not El's.

Will tells Mike that El told him what to draw. Then the camera cuts right to Jonathan. When he knows Will painted it and El didn't know what it was or who it was for.

Will: "I mean, without heart we'd all fall apart. Even El, especially El."

Then it cuts to Mike then Jonathan. Again, Jonathan knows this is about Will, not El. He's capturing these moments.

Will continues to lie and we once again, cut to Jonathan.

Here is more of Jonathan:

Mike: "But I am scared that one day you'll realize you don't need me anymore. And I thought that if I said how I felt it would somehow make that day hurt more."

We cut to Will and then Jonathan.

“People don’t really say what they're really thinking. When you capture the right moment, it says more.”

"But I am scared that one day you'll realize you don't need me anymore. And I thought that if I said how I felt it would somehow make that day hurt more."

Mike's fear & reason for not telling El he loves her:

What he thinks would happen:

Mike says I love you to El

One day, El realizes she doesn't need him anymore

That day hurts because she doesn't need him even though he loves her

El WANTED Mike to tell her that he loved her, but he didn't say it because he was afraid of losing her??

If Mike told El that he loved her, why would he still have doubts that she wouldn't need him??

Because Mike doesn't love her romantically and he's scared that if she knew, she wouldn't need him anymore. But that's just not true.

Jonathan is observing him in this scene. In previous scenes, Will is lying to Mike. Will isn't saying what he's really thinking (the truth to Mike). But Jonathan captures those specific moments, those lies. He sees through them and they become something more. The truth. Will is confessing his feelings for Mike through El.

In this scene, Mike is lying to El. Mike isn't saying what he's really thinking (the truth to El). But Jonathan captures this particular moment. This moment is when he sees through Mike's lies. He sees the truth. Mike is confessing his real feelings. He's saying that he isn't in love her and he's scared to lose her because of that. He's saying that the whole reason why he didn't tell her he loved her is because he's scared El wouldn't need him anymore.

Again, if Mike told El that he loved her, why would he think El wouldn't need him anymore? Why is he so scared that one day she'll come to this realization? Hm... I wonder...

Mike doesn't love El romantically, but he needs her. They will always need each other. And, I think, in season 5, Mike will realize that El will always need him and that they don't need to be in love with one another to stay with one another. Mike wouldn't lose her just because they're not together as a couple anymore.

--------------

Idk if any of this made sense or not. Not really sure about the whole Jonathan thing, but it is clear that he observes Will (and people in general) and knows he loves Mike. I just thought that what Jonathan said is interesting. Is this the shows way of saying that characters don't always mean what they say? Maybe...

I don't know anything about film, so don't take this seriously. I have no idea what I'm doing, I'm just bored and very sleep deprived.

Let me know what you think:)

[love-byers]

this is weaponized incompetence at this point holy fuck

"he didn't think having his mom help her get home meant never seeing her again"

WHAT ELSE IS THIS SUPPOSED TO MEAN?? WAS HE GOING TO MAKE SCHEDULED VISITS TO PENNHURST TO SEE HER????

he wasn't concerned with where she came from, he just wanted her out of the way so they could go out looking for will again. "We'll be totally in the clear! And tomorrow night, we go back out. And this time, we find Will."

and yes of COURSE mike wanted her to be home safe. he's a fucking nice person and she was a cold, lost, scared kid. he wanted to make sure she got taken care of and back home safe, and he was gonna focus on finding will again. and i don't know why they think him letting her stay bc she was in danger means he's in love with her. she said bad people were trying to kill her of course he let her stay😭😭 that doesn't indicate romantic love though. and later when dustin and lucas were getting on mike for not going through with the original plan he tells them she needs to stay because she knows will and she knows how to find him, and that the bad people after her might be the same people who took will. no one is trying to say he didn't care about her, but if what he did for el indicates romantic love then he's 1000% in love with will too lmfao

and keep in mind this whole time mike is supposed to KNOW he's in love with her, his words not mine. he's supposedly in love when he says "She'll send her back to Pennhurst or wherever she comes from" ??

and again, no one is trying to say mike hated el or didnt care about her or anything like that. mike was a child doing the best he could in that situation, he wanted to find will and help el. but mike himself claims he had already crossed the line into PURE ROMANTIC LOVE and KNEW IT. if that was the case then he would not be saying those things, he just wouldn't. in stranger things we are shown that characters love each other by their careful attentive behavior towards each other and their desire to stay together as a team, and they take time to get to that point, they need to develop. this is why love at first sight just does not work as a label for mike and el's relationship. mikes behavior does not indicate that at all. you'd have to bend and twist and reach in order to make it make sense (when it still wouldn't anyway), and THAT my friend is 10x more delulu than anything bylers say lol

can s5 come out already so we can be done with this shit

[isitisitearlymichael]

Constantly seeing people trying to call any speculation about Will & Mike delusional and making out it’s a non-story. Taking away any expectations for season 5, this bothers me for several reasons:

1. The situation is constantly being compared to non-canon ships that people just liked the idea of in the past. In this situation, the show has specifically told us that Will has feelings for Mike, and that is the reason why we are discussing them as a possibility. It is incredibly rare for a non-canon ship to actually be in this situation.

2. If the show never intended to set up Will and Mike as a potential future couple, maybe you shouldn't be blaming the hundreds of thousands of fans who felt that way after watching, and should instead be discussing how this storyline has been mishandled by the showrunners.

3. The constant insistence that the pair getting together would be "unrealistic" for the time period or show in general is utterly hilarious when we're talking about a show called Stranger Things, and Mike's other love interest is a lab born shaven-haired girl with powers. That's definitely realistic for the time!

4. The refusal to take into account time jumps and understand that we're not just expecting Mike to jump from one relationship to another. This also applies to the comments about how a single season is not enough time to develop a new relationship.

5. The failure to recognise that El and Mike have only actually been in a relationship for around 15 months, and at least 6 months of that time they were in a long-distance relationship. Viewers talk about them like they've been together for years simply because of the breaks between seasons. The relationship really isn't that deep at all and they've barely had time to get to know each other properly. We know more about El than Mike does.

6. Finally, the insistence that the storyline has nowhere to go in season 5, despite the fact Mike has yet to discover the truth about Will's feelings, the painting and his speech. Season 4 also promised us that Will and Mike are going to kill Vecna together. In fact, so much of the epilogue was around the boys and hinting that they'd be sticking together throughout season 5. it's clear that we're getting a lot more from them, no matter what.

[starlight-bread-blog]

Okay I'm gonna go full conspiracy, but some of y'all are way worse so I'm doing this. Listen up. Will Byers and Mike Wheeler are fictional characters. Meaning, that everything they do, everything they think and yes, everything they feel has a purpose. So let's look at the facts as they are. Mike couldn't tell El that he loves her, and Will is in love with Mike. Right off the bat, with Will, this fact could lead to two things:

Mike is also in love with Will, and there will be a love triangle with Mike in the middle.

Mike is not in love with Will, and Will will either end up alone, or die, or find another queer boy to love.

With scenario 1, everything is fine. But although on paper, scenario 2 makes sense, we should take into account that everything that Will feels is a carefully thought out decision.

Let's remember the themes and the message of Stranger Things. This show is about the freaks of society, the losers, the outcasts. How people may l give them the side eye, but they have each other. And they'll stand by each other no matter what. So, how does this relate to Will and Mike? Will is a gay boy in the 80s, which not only makes him an outcast, but an outright freak in the eyes of the public. It would go against Stranger Things' message to write a freak trying to find love in his best friend, the one who's supposed to be by his side forever, and having him rejected. In real life, this would not be a problem. If someone is straight, they're straight. But in fiction, the sexuality and or love interest of a character is again, a choice with ramification on the quality of the story. And writing Will, a "freak", having his heart broken by someone who he considered another freak, when you're telling a story about how freaks empower each other by sticking together, is not a smart writing decision.

(There is also the matter of the van scene, where Will's supposedly unrequited feelings are being used to repair El and Mike's relationship, as Will cries over not being able to be with Mike. In other words, if Mike isn't in love with Will, the outcast's suffering is used to fix what's more socially acceptable. Do you see the problem? I don't know how many times I'm going to repeat myself in this post, and I hope it's not getting annoying, but I need to make this as crystal clear as possible: Fiction is not real life. In real life, a gay boy could use some words of affirmation regardless of how they feel, it's just being nice. But in fiction, you have a job to do. You have a story to tell. You have a message you want to put out into the world. And this scene is not compatible with the message).

But let's look at Mike. In season 4, El confronts Mike about him not telling her that he loves her. And throughout that whole scene, not even once, does he just say that he loves her. In the end he does, but the reason as to why he stopped saying it, or why he didn't say it when she confronted him, is never explained. In real life, it's okay if Mike wants to deal with whatever he feels and the reasons behind it with himself. But this is not real life, this was deliberately written to be understood by an audience. It was written to serve a purpose. Mike not being able to tell El that he loves her was a serious conflict in season 4, and the cause behind it is left unknown. This is bad writing, plain and simple. Unless, there is some other factor we are not yet aware of. Unless, he could possibly have feelings for someone else. Maybe that someone is Will.

With that theory in mind, remember when Will and Mike met after a long time of not seeing each other? Will was gonna hug Mike, but Mike just went for a fist bump. There was a very awkward atmosphere in that moment. Why would there be? Once again, I'm not talking about real life. In real life, it could just be awkward because they haven't talked to each other in a while and Mike needs time to adjust. But this is fiction. Every emotion has a purpose, every bit leads to something. And so far, it led to nothing. There was just one awkward moment, with no explanation, and it's never brought up again. There is no reason for it to be there. It's common knowledge that unnecessary story bits shouldn't make it to the final cut. If this wouldn't be expanded upon in some way, it'd be bad writing. It wouldn't be the worst thing to ever happen, but combined with him not being able to tell El that he loves her, it's all very confusing to say the least. But the story is not over, and maybe, all will be explained. And just maybe, that awkwardness could be described as tension between the two. Maybe Mike is in love with Will. That would be the most logical explanation.

[faelorelia]

It’s more unrealistic for Will to get over Mike than for Mike to reciprocate Will’s feelings.

Why? Because this is a fictional story. In real life, it’s common for someone to have to move on from their first love, no matter how painful it is – that’s reality, and no one argues with that.

But this doesn’t apply to a fictional setting where the creators have deliberately emphasized a unique, deep bond between two characters. They’ve singled them out from the group, placed them in heartfelt, romantically coded one-on-one scenes, had them say incredibly sweet things to each other, and shown them going above and beyond for one another. On top of that, one of them has been confirmed to be in love with the other – and that person is one of the most traumatized characters in the show, someone who never seems to catch a break.

How can anyone argue that it would be good for Will to end up with a random NPC he hasn’t even interacted with yet, just to give him “someone”? What would that mean? “Poor gay boy, you can’t have the love of your life, the person you sacrificed your feelings for to make him happy – that’s too good for you. Here, take this character we introduced last-minute to avoid queerbaiting allegations and prove we haven’t forgotten about you.” Is that really what people want for Will? For him to not be rewarded for everything he’s endured?

I’m not claiming to know what the writers have planned or how the show will end. But if they give Will a last-minute love interest just to avoid leaving him single, it will be a complete disservice to his character and an insult to fans who resonate with his experiences.

And it’s not like it’s clear that Mike doesn’t feel the same. In fact, there are countless moments where Mike looks just as in love with Will as Will is with him. Here are just a few examples.

There are also moments of Mike acting “weird” that don’t add up when considered together:

• His lack of response to El’s kiss at the end of S3, along with how he seemed distant and not fully invested during their S4 reunion and their Rink-O-Mania “date”.

• His inability to say “I love you” to El, and his visible struggle with the topic throughout S4, suggesting there’s more to it than meets the eye.

• His inability to balance his relationships with El and Will.

• His constant feelings of inferiority with El, contrasted with how uplifted and himself he feels with Will.

• Him clearly viewing Will differently from his other friends – saying things with romantic undertones, acting differently with him (like one might act with their love interest). And yes, he’s looked at Will’s lips a few times (more than Will has).

To dismiss the possibility of Byler and get mad at those who connect these dots is ignorant and narrow-minded. To call us crazy and delusional is disrespectful. And to claim that “Stranger Things” – a show about nerds and outcasts – would never give us a touching gay love story because it’s “too mainstream” is to completely misunderstand its themes and core message.

[teambyler]

Byler wouldn't be "straightbaiting"

When Byler becomes canon, I can already see the accusations:

"We've been straightbaited by this show TWICE!" (Referring to Robin being gay after being a possible love interest for Steve.)

But this isn't about keeping "score" between the gays and the straights. It's about what makes sense for the characters.

Steve thought he and Robin would make a great ROMANTIC COUPLE, but as it turns out not only is she gay but he's also has needed a BEST FRIEND outside the "popular crowd" he's grown out of. (In retrospect, it was also clear that Steve wasn't really into her sexually but liked her as a good friend.) And Robin has needed someone she can come out to and talk to about girls:

Mike and Will, meanwhile, are BEST FRIENDS, but they'll actually become, well, you know...

Mike and Will are the same thing, in reverse. They have all the same nerd interests. But Mike also feels inadequate in his relationship. He needs someone who sees him as a hero. Will has felt the deepest love for Mike after all Mike's done to help him. They give what the other person needs.

"Straightbaiting" would be the show building up a straight romantic couple as something that makes sense for everyone involved, then pulling the rug out from under them to cater to mass-market pressure (which let's be real doesn't exist for LGBT+ couples since most viewers relate more to straight relationships).

Nope! If Byler plays out, it wouldn't be "straightbaiting." It would be be "Mike- and Will-serving."

People who yell "straightbaiting" really just have a problem because Byler would be the first time two MAIN CHARACTERS got in a same-sex relationship with each other, in a show that already has had FIVE heterosexual pairings: Nancy/Steve, Mike/El, Nancy/Jonathan, Lucas/Max, and Joyce/Hopper. They just want straight people to have a monopoly on representation (again).

-teambyler