#they did the same thing to me with moral orel

[jazzhandedfreak]

I watched falsettos because my partner really seemed to like it and i thought it was just a fun silly musical.

Anyway ive been sobbing for the last THREE DAYS why did i trust them

[ultravioletqueen]

I love hazbin hotel but....nerdy prudes must did MANY things BETTER

I currently have a love-hate relationship with Hazbin Hotel, because whether I like it or not it was part of my adolescence since I saw the pilot, but I must admit that it has flaws that irritate me a lot and I know that it irritates others too:

my main problems are:

1) the humor is too immature to be a program "for adults" (there are fans who are not even older, I'm not saying that, the conventions say it💀),its the humor of a teenager that recently learned what swear words are.

They pretend this show is more complex and deep than it really is,they want us yo believe that this is how an adult show works when,NO???? THERE'S PLENTY OF ADULT SHOWS THAT WORKS WITHOUT CONSTANT SWEARING AND SEX JOKES! like My Aventures with Superman, Moral Orel, Bob's Burgers and others!

The audience of Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss are mostly teenagers, not even adults.

2) the villains have no depth nor are they intimidating, I'm talking especially about VALENTINO and ADAM (as much as I love Adam, I don't feel intimidated by his presence) and they don't feel like a real problem for the protagonists.

ADAM is the biggest villain of the first season but i never see him as a threat,the characters don't feel in danger,he is not a bigger evil they should care about. Adam had a lot of potential to be the big villain they tell us he is,he in fact had the potential to be the best character of the series but they just make him a douchebag just for the sake of being one,he has no motivations besides being a sadist that enjoys killing his descendants and fucking around.

VALENTINO is just a petty manchild that is intimidating in just one scene and after that there is no other moment where that threatening persona shows up again,he is not a real threat even if he is important to Angel Dust arc,they could put travis in his place and is just the same shit, nothing changes.

3) the characters have no variety, the lack of diversity and other colors that are not red is so annoying to me as a person who likes to find variety on colors and shapes, but all, i mean ALL characters have red in their clothing and it makes that they mix with the background in a way that gives me the ICK.

In the part of body shapes is the same problem, the only characters that are not skinny twinks/voluptuous chicks are antagonists or villains, they just make the fat characters annoying just to make the audience like the skinny ones more.

The women and men bodies are practically the SAME FUCKING THING:

Vivziepop only knows hourglass and twink bodies.

And as a fashion lover i must say that the lack of variety in clothes,especially for men is KILLING ME, every man in this show uses suits, shoulder pads and bowties, even if some characters looks good it make my blood BOIL no seeing other look more than this.

4) They rush the story to the point that they waste possible arcs for the characters (SIR PENTIOUS'S and ANGEL DUST path to redemption),they make the war to heaven the priority instead of the real premise of redeming sinners,they ignore it and not even make real attemps to let the audience know there is a real progress and the ways they use to "rehabilitate" are so childish that makes me cringe,if CHARLIE really wants to help them she should make REAL REHABILITATION PROGRAMS instead of kids excersises.

ANGEL DUST was a prick from day one,not only in the pilot but also in the series,he is a pos that DESERVES ALL THE BAD THINGS THAT HAPPEN TO HIM, and he was not only an addict to drugs and sex, he was a MOBSTER, HE KILLED PEOPLE FOR A LIVING AND HE SHOWED NO REMORSE, his sudden caring for the other cast feels so out of character and rushed that makes me ANGRY.

The redemption of Sir Pentious was so rushed that makes me feel NOTHING AT ALL because we dont see him get better, we dont see him chance and we dont even know how sacrificing himself redeem him, i dont know, maybe he was very selfish in life??? Its not that hard viv.

Now, what does this have to do with Nerdy Prudes Must Die? It's very simple, Nerdy Prudes Must Die takes several of Hazbin Hotel's flaws and makes it BETTER.

1) the humor is universally funny, it is not sold as something for adults because it has swear words or sexual jokes, it is not shown as something more mature or profound than it is, they know that it is not the eighth wonder of the world and they make the most of it doing comedy, improvisation and very funny situations.

Their songs, for example, are very fun and bring weight to the plot. Each song shows a perspective and the thoughts of the characters that cannot be expressed in words. Each musical number enters the minds of the protagonists, from the beginning to the end.

2)MAX, the villain of the story, is the nightmare of every teenager who has gone to high school, a bully who gets his way and makes everyone's lives impossible, and that makes him SCARY AS HELL.

When MAX enters the scene you can see the fear that everyone has of him, he feels intimidating and inspires fear and respect among others, everyone knows that if he is around there are SERIOUS problems and he acts like a true threat.

and MAX is deeper than he seems, unlike ADAM or VALENTINO you can notice that he has certain qualities that make him charismatic such as being naturally funny, appreciating when people do good things for him, having a genuine interest in GRACE CHASTITY and that his family life not being the best means that you can have even some affection for the character without leaving aside his actions against others.

All the characters represent the average 17 year old teenager and that makes them friendly, they show the reality that adolescence regardless of who you are has its problems especially in an environment like high school.

The protagonists are sympathetic, it's easy to get attached to them, I still haven't get over RICHIE'S death and his "im not a loser" because we saw that in fact he wasn't just a loser, he was a someone who, although he had his problems, was a good boy and he didn't deserve the ending he had(and his dead showed how sadistic Max could be).

Unlike Sir Pentious and Angel Dust we were able to see more of Richie, we were able to see that he was the one who felt the worst about what they did to Max, while the others are worried about going to prison he talks about how he feels about it (" i think im gonna throw up"/"oh my ashtma is back"), we can see that he wanted to be accepted as someone important on the team and when he finally feels valued Max kills him when he feels his kingdom crumble, in my opinion his "im not "a loser" is a way of giving himself confidence or courage to confront his bully from years ago but obviously it didn't work and he ended up dying in a horrible way, what makes it sadder is that he probably tried to run away from max and ended up in the bathroom because every victim of bullying knows that it can be a safe place (locking yourself in a cubicle until the bully leaves) but Max being a ghost didn't work:(

the characters are empathetic almost without wanting to, even MAX can be empathetic if you analyze enough.

3)there are more diversity here than any other series of vivziepop, i know is different because is a live musical with real people but they make sure that EVERY CHARACTER IS MEMORABLE, every character has his own quirks and clothing that makes them stand out.

We see variety of colors, races, faces and more! They make them iconic and easy to remember in all scenes, no character is left behind and they all are unique in clothes, personality and depth.

4)The story doesn't feel rushed, they take enough time to tell the story without making it too long or shortening it either, each arc is resolved in a way that goes well with the plot and doesn't feel forced.

My god, STEPH AND PETER have more chemistry than CHARLIE AND VAGGIE and they achieved it almost effortlessly. Their arc is not the best in the world, but I love their dynamics and chemistry more than CHARLIE and VAGGIE (and I like Chaggie in concept) and the story advances without the need to focus only on one character, everyone has their moment to shine and that fascinates me about this musical, each one is in the spotlight at the right and necessary moment.

In conclusion: Vivienne should learn from starkid, who were able to make a story that, although it begins superficially with a teenage drama, over time becomes deeper and talks about hard topics such as bullying, murder, death and the occult. way that we can feel connected with the characters and with the story in general, they give us a story with soul, something that unfortunately makes the hotel fail completely, it also helps me accept that I can like a series and still recognize its mistakes and see That others can get it right where Hazbin Hotel went wrong.

[puzzled-pegasus]

Bloberta and Clay analysis ramblings

(TW: discussion of child abuse, spousal abuse, alcoholism, and SA)

I just rewatched Help and Passing and think it's time that I talked about our favorite dysfunctional husband and wife from Moral Orel.

Both Bloberta and Clay are really bad people in my opinion, and both sympathetic, but Bloberta is undeniably responsible for the fact that they ended up together when they shouldn't have, and Clay is of course mostly responsible for the way he treated Orel. It's important to note that I do NOT think that Bloberta is responsible for Clay's alchoholism, at least not by encouraging him to drink one single time at a party. He's responsible for his own choice to keep drinking so much every day after despite the person he became when he was drunk.

She did, however, essentially squeeze a not-even-proposal out of him after he made it clear that he wasn't into the idea of marriage, and then was disappointed and frustrated when he looked sad at their wedding. It's possible that she may have had somewhat of an "i can fix him" mentality?

Mostly, though, it's shown in the episode Help that all she wants is to be useful and wanted, and to find a man as quickly as she can to get married to so she doesn't feel left out in her circle of women around her age. She was a middle child at home and constantly pushed aside everywhere else as well. So of course, she's going to snatch up the first young man who so much as engages in pleasant conversation with her. Even if that man is someone who very strongly hints at wanting nothing to do with her romantically.

As we learn in previous episodes of the show, Bloberta also seems desperate for male attention because Clay avoids her, but she probably also was back then; Clay just didn't satisfy her want for attention like she thought he would, because he resented her.

Of course, we don't see into Bloberta's childhood at all, not that Clay's childhood flashback didn't make him look like 100 percent worse as a person, and Clay gets more screentime overall. But with what we do have, Clay gets a few more sympathy points from me, especially from what we learn in Help and during his Nature rant.

As the best, and most well-rounded-out story antagonists do, Clay has a really interesting cocktail of trauma that makes him the intimidating abuser that he is. There are so many points during his screentime where you almost just feel bad for him, or concerned. Especially in the Nature rant.

One thing that's so good about that rant is that the whole scene almost perfectly illustrates the feeling of having a parent dump some of their darkest traumas onto you just because you're forced to listen. The concern on Orel's face, the sorrow, the shock, the disturbance of seeing someone---that he trusted and looked up to, and who he thought had everything figured out, like lots of children believe their parents do----just...fall apart in front of him.

Just the same as Orel does in this scene, the viewer might feel very uncomfortable and somewhat angry at Clay for putting all this onto a child who is dependent on him and who he put into a dangerous situation with his drunken self, but there's also an undeniable sense of sympathy for Clay as he rants about how unhappy he is with his life. A large part of the rant is also about his resentment toward women and Bloberta in particular, and the way he describes their relationship...to me, makes it sound like Bloberta has sexually assaulted him, and I'm surprised I haven't see anyone talk about that.

As additional evidence, consider the exchange in The Best Christmas Ever:

"I don't even remember concieving [Shapey]!"

"Oh please, when do you ever remember?" Now, in a normal argument, this would just be a jab at how Clay is constantly drunk, but this is a conversation about the origins of a child, thus, having sexual intercourse; implying that Clay often doesn't remember when he and Bloberta do it.

"All I do is try to forget." This one really confirms it for me. If Bloberta doing sexual things to Clay is so awful for him that he's constantly self medicating to forget about it---of course, that among other things---then I would classify that as SA.

And then there's the line, "I can't believe I gave you the privilege of satisfying me every night," which may or may not be evidence. He may have phrased it that way to convince himself that he had control over the situations where Bloberta coerced him, or it may be regret of the (very) few times he cooperated willingly. Possibly both.

Who knows. Maybe Clay didn't mind it for a little while after they were married, and didn't see the need anymore after they already had a child because he wasn't sexually attracted to Bloberta in the first place. Maybe he was attracted to her for a short while and he lost the feeling when she was pregnant. Either way, his distress during the Nature rant made it undeniably clear to me that at least a portion of his sexual encounters with Bloberta were instances of marital SA with Blobs as the perpetrator.

I'd like to say again that this observation about Clay does not in anyway attempt to redeem him as a character or say he was "good all along," I just think it's annoying that the rape of Nurse Bendy and Miss Sculptham were such impactful scenes in the fandom and yet I've never seen anyone bring up the possibility that it could have been happening to Clay.

Moving on from that, though, there's another thing I've noticed about the relationship with Clay and Bloberta----the absence of domestic abuse, as least that we have seen. Not that I'm complaining that no one is beating their spouse in this show, but looking at all the other dark topics in Moral Orel, it's just a little interesting that they didn't cover the topic of spousal abuse, even as a joke. Which is to say, it's interesting that despite how much Clay and Bloberta hate each other, they never get into physical fights or push each other around using violence. Well, except for that one time in Help where Blobs punches Clay in the face. But who's to say whether she did that while married.

They also don't get into very many heated fights, to such an extent that Orel still thinks they're somewhat happy at the end of the show. In general, it seems like they're mostly just trying to stay out of each other's way. Maybe they do have some sort of small shred of human respect or base level love for each other. Maybe they don't see the point of being violent toward each other, or maybe they just don't want anyone to see bruises on the other to arouse suspicion that they're not actually perfect and happy and loving. There are ways to cover bruises, though, so I think there's gotta be some other reason. Maybe they're just worried about it being a sin to lay hands on a spouse? Maybe Clay took to heart the fact that his own father never, ever laid hands on his wife, Clay's mother? Maybe it was enough for Clay to take his frustrations out on Orel instead, since he misbehaved so often?

Anyway, this is a long post. These characters are just so interesting and the story is so thought provoking. Send me asks if you want. Or don't. I just like talking about these loser ass puppet people.

[petitprincess1]

Warning: Hazbin Hotel Spoilers and mentions of SA

I dont know if you've noticed but there's been new drama on Twitter regarding one of Angel Dust scenes that depict him being SAd by Val and people got so mad over it saying it was incredibly disrespectfull, harming and insensitive to real SA victims.

While I agree maybe not everyone will enjoy that scene I dont think they should be surprised when it was announced that Hazbin was much darker than Helluva Boss considering its +18 calification and setting (also it makes sense when you consider Pride is inhabited by the worst of the worst and people got sent there as punishment for their misdeeds but get no regulation/sentence for their crimes and can continue their sinful acts while Hellborns were born there hence why they have a more grey morality-like Blitzø,Loona, Moxxie or Millie-and lower Rings actually have laws to ensure people's safety). The warnings are there for a reason, buddy.

Also people are talking about how bad it is to represent SA as what it is; something uncomfortable for SA victims and are comparing it with stuff that did it for laughs like Moral Orel in S1. Yes, SA is uncomfortable and ugly to watch but I think its important to have the representation as male SA victims (or just SA victims in general) get laughed at and blamed for something that wasn't their fault. And trauma isn't something pretty and people sometimes have not extremly good coping mechanisms to deal with it. It's raw,ugly and discomforting to watch but SA victims can relate to that and actually aive seen oeople saying that they had similar expierences to Angel and honestly it feels good to be seen.

Plus honestly this whe debacle kinda reminds me of how people victim blamed Stolas for also being a SA victim as confirmed in the Circus and went out of their way to villify him by implying that he must have done something to piss Stella off for her to rape him and concevie Via which is essentially the same as asking a girl or woman what they were wearing and blaming them for getting SAd. And also shame them for trying to cope with it however they can, like joking about it or glorifying it in attempts to make them feel not so shitty for what happened to them; like how they're doing with Viv for joking about her past trauma currently.

Idk it just feels like people, especially non SA victims, dont want SA victims to have visibility and go out of their way to say harmfull stuff like SA victims shouldn't be sexy or shouldn't have sex again in their lives which is more harmfull than good as youre basically shaming them into being unhappy with their bodies just for an unpleasant and undesireable expierence they had no say in it instead of healing. I get that its uncomfortable but it doesn't mean we wont to see Angel get better and be treated with the respect he deserves in future episodes.

I kinda find it funny they bring up Moral Orel, considering they did show rape victims in a more serious light in S3, which is what got the show canceled by Adult Swim. But yeah. I dont see what's wrong with showing how horrifying and terrible SA is. If it's because of his behavior, yeah...that's how he copes. Like, hypersexuality is a thing that victims of SA can go through.

Then again, I guess Antis know better than SA victims. I mean.........just look at 'em. /sarcasm

[angellic-critique]

Honestly my biggest fear is to end up writing my characters the same way vivzie does, I feel like she doesn't even try on certain characters(female characters and literally any other that isn't her "uwu baby boi must be protected at all costs" characters like stolas, angel dust). Like imagine completely missing the point of your own character/srs

to everyone pre-release worries and anxieties just as much as I have-- Please take this time to read or explore different interests of books or authors of subjects and genres you like ! In the era of internet where the golden age of information is rusting into brainrot, the less time online anymore the better. I've been taking javascript/python tutorials for myself attempting to make a dating simulator for literal years at this point and its bounced around to the point of where I branched off to develop my own murder mystery 2-d sidescroller !

I wish for this to be a farewell letter to the crushed hopes and dreams I had for the original hazbin pilot and crew has moved on to other things whereas viv attempted to spitefully keep a story she clearly doesn't have any passion over- it is very evident over her lack of care for her own characters purely for the monetary gains of attempting and sadly wriggling her way into industry the way she did is so abhorrent to the world of genuine art and animation I grew up with.

Has Vivzie ever read a Felix the Cat comic strip or Dilbert even Hägar The Horrible? Does she even know about the history and strive of depth that animation has been at for hundreds of years? Does she even like comics, clearly not if she doesn't even have the patience to write her own and horribly rush whichever story she's interested in that day. I've never seen a careless writer be this selfishly unashamed to write literal garbage and surface level 'intrigue' of design and then falling flat face first at EVERY step. Hope she becomes as unbearable of a director as John K. is because honestly even though I'm cringing making that comparison, it's pretty fair in my book considering the outright ABUSE she has always trying to talk or hoard artists into her 'pet project' I recommend above anything else to watch Dan Stamanolous' 'Moral Orel' if you want an actually funny dark comedy or Christy Karacas' fast paced dark horror comic-come-to-life Superjail! for good animattion that doesn't belittle its audience... *[Trigger Warnings for Adult Swim-esque outdated 2007 humor and light transphobia, read for your own triggers if you dont want to though, please!]

The fact that Stollitz is written so flimsily like a wattpad fanficiton of tropes rolled into one is astounding to me, I used to like the dynamic pre-season 2 as I've mentioned on here and @tired-hellowl so I really don't want to get a headache going into how I USED to like it-Realizing the problematic consent issues all of STOLASS is, I physically cannot watch another Helluva or Hazbin promo anymore without rolling my eyes into the back of my head.

To the anons and people who used to also enjoy vivs work, there are other artists and there are other stories to tell. If you wish to be inspired from Dante's Inferno/Hell or WESTERN CHRISTIAN BASED RELIGION keep in mind what source material you're doing because I don't even think vivzie has picked up the bible once in her life.... And I say this as a drifter in the world who believes in reincarnation I don't really vibe with the athiest stereotypes however, I don't believe in most religion but more power to people that do get hope and love from their teachings and cultures.

She entirely missed the mark for several years, nearly a decade. Viv has had time and time again chance and opportunity to give a chance of storytelling with demons and what does she do? Adult Cartoon that has the demons scream 'FUCK SHIT DAMNIT DAMNIT LOOK IM SO HORNY AND SILLY AND WACKY WOAHH THE SCREEN IS CONSTANTLY MOVING YOU CAN NEVER HAVE A SECOND TO BREATH IN ANY AMOUNT OF WORLBUILDING OR SETTING BECAUSE FUCK. YOU.'--

I have said this time and time again- there is no substance or worth about Helluva Bosses or Hazbins writing, even without the show not being released because Amazon seems ashamed about it, I know it'll be a shitshow.

Honestly at this point I agree with the redesign community, take any character you used to like and rewrite them until it's unrecognizable from the original source material, let those fuckers in space fight alien pirates or hell take them out of the heaven and hell trope and just flip it on it's head entirely out of earth or wherever you want to set your story! I'm personally redesigning angel to be a slight aid to my addiction help via rewriting him into my murder mystery heheh while keeping the sexual abuse and recovery in mind because woah that shit happened to me too man !!!

I wish the best to any future writers, animators, programmers, lovers of animation or art, you can do what you put your mind and hands to! Spread more positivity and love then hate in this world please guys, this'll be the last time I pop in I promise I'm trying to get a better job and hopefully get accepted in a community college that i've been on the fence over trying to do more online coding ! The sky is the limit!<3

[thatneoncrisis]

hi prev anon from the post abt the arcane kid!

yeah sorry i do realize i came off as super condescending, i meant it more jokingly bc i thought your og post was a little harsh but it did close the door to actual criticism and that's like rude and lame as a response mb

i do see your point now though! i think i was just blinded by just personally liking the character but yeah in retrospect they really didnt give her any defining characteristics that weren't directly tied to being sad backstory fodder for jinx, which is in pretty poor taste even for a common archetype. thank you for taking the time to respond, i haven't seen that many critical takes on arcane so it was really interesting to read :)

(also ps the whole Vander being a werewolf thing is directly from League which is why it was included even though it's a little left field, they probably could've worked it in better but he Did need to become a weird dog man bc arcane is League backstory. i would like to hear more of your thoughts on why you thought he was poorly implemented if have any you'd want to share!)

thank you for taking the time to read it, ill be the first to admit that first initial post was in some part hyperbole to capture my frustration with the direction of the show.

to put it succintly, arcane feels like the first draft of a really good essay. all the points are laid out but they do not necessarily flow in a concise manner, there are definitely chunks that could be taken out, and it does that Thing of embedding a quote without properly explaining its relevance to the overall thesis. there are many times i found myself watching and thinking "damn. this would be a really great bookend to an arc that literally did not happen in the show"

and it definitely feels like thrall to its own origins. i understand that the werewolf frankenstien thing is a league thing, just like how i understand violet being an enforcer and ekkos time powers are all based in league lore. i also do not think the show has the time or energy for any of this. vi's enforcer arc lasts maybe one episode total, and her little pitfighter montage displays that she is far more torn up over losing caitlyn than betraying her own ideals and people to wear the badge. it means nothing it changed nothing. ekko has featured very little in season two, and any revelations about his time power junk will feel tacked on, like they forgot about it until it was time for him to have his One or Two episodes. i do appreciate them not waiting until act two to even introduce the idea of whats happened to vandor, but it feels so out of place. at best its a catalyst to get the sisters back on the same page but that was definitely not the only way they could have done it. and then they kill him again! in front of them! again!

ultimately i find myself at an impasse. i will never see this show in the same way arcane lovers do. i acknowledge its gorgeous visuals and ambitious story but too many things just keep falling short for me to forgive it. and despite this i can understand why people think of it as the greatest animated television show of all time- but not because its close to actually being a masterwork of story and character, but because there is genuinely almost NOTHING to compare it to. i looked- most western adult animation are prime time sitcoms- family guy, american dad, bobs burgers, rick and morty. even some of the best ones (moral orel <3) are still grounded in a reality much closer to our own than the fantastical world of arcane. at best i could compare it to like, primal? scavengers reign? the legend of vox machina? blue eyed samurai? and i have literally seen none of those shows so god only knows how apt the comparison is, ive just heard excellent things via word of mouth. my point is the children yearn for the mines, the mines of high concept fantasy and political intrigue, and arcane having like, excellent character design and lesbians cannot make me agree that those characters are being used to their fullest potential

tldr. anon. i am gripping you by the shoulders. please enjoy this show when i cannot. i think it is good that art is being made forever, even when i personally think that art is the worst kind of toothless liberal ideology

[tinyattack09]

ALLL MORAL OREL FANS

you wanna see a fix where Clay is confronted by literal god???

Here it is!!!

Beseech

After the Danielle incident and the hunting tragedy, Clay Puppington receded to his study most of the time. Making no attempt to change, he would waste his days drinking and having an affair with both Censordoll and Stopframe. But, we all know that the lord giveth, and the lord taketh away.

“Clayton Middleinitial Puppington!”

“G-…God!?”

“It is I, the Heavenly Father.” His voice shook the room, and boomed into his body.

“Wha-…Why have you visited me, Lord?” Clay said, clearly in a daze.

“You have a lesson to learn, Clayton. You give your own

lessons and stories while convoluting their meaning to fit your way of destructive, abusive life. It is time that you learn, mortal. The Lord’s mercy only reaches you if it remains pure.”

A sword of pure light appeared. As the Lord held it, the power

changed its hue.

“Lord, what are you doing!?” Clay stepped back. He knew that

he was in trouble, and he couldn’t bribe this one to go away. The sword was raised, and all the light in the room was focused only on Clay.

“What is necessary to keep my world pure.”

“Why…?!”

"Why!? Pathetic. Unable to realize thy faults. Let us see your life, and what it really was."

Everything fades. There is a young boy holding a gun. It shakes in his hands as he struggles to bear such a deadly tool.

"It's a tradition in the Puppington family that the head of the household would pass off this gun to the eldest son."

"Wow, dad… But I don't think I could kill an animal. That seems too mean."

"Son, nature was made to be hunted. We get to 'play god.'"

“Play God?? Golly Pops… that doesn’t sound very right…

You know the sixty-third commandment! ‘Thou shalt never hold a gun without anything to shoot at!’ And we have to follow God’s rules!”

The memory switches to a young Puppington, holding that

same gun, while ketchup was spewed all over the child’s body.

“Clay! Clay! Clayton! Open your fucking eyes!” Clay’s body was shook violently.

“What?? I didn’t do anything!” Clay springs back to life, having

pretended he was dead. His mother then cried out

“Oh thank the heavens! Lord, thank you-“ She froze in the

middle of her sentence. She fell to the floor, her heart unresponsive.

“Mom!” Clay ran to his now dead mother, understanding what he did.

“Get back!” Clay’s father pushed him back, slamming him to a wall. No CPR could be done, and Amanda Puppington was declared dead. The memory fades to black.

Clay was frozen.

“I-… I was so young, Father! I didn’t know what I was doing! I was only six years old!”

“Then let us watch something more… recent, yes?” The memory flashes to the wilderness. Clay is an adult, and stands there with his twelve year-old son, Orel.

“Dad… I think you might be *too* drunk.”

“I… Let me tell you something, Orel! Drunk is nature.”

“I’m not really comfortable hunting with you, Dad.” Orel is tense, gripping to the log he’s sitting on.

“You aren’t comfortable hunting with me? Ever tried hunting with you!?” Clay gulps down his liquor like it’s the last bottle of water in the desert.

“Y’know kid, your cup is always half empty. Look at me. You should be more like your old man and look on the blight side of life.”

“B-Blight?” Orel said, shivering from his fear.

“No, I didn’t say ‘bright,’" Clay interrupted, "I said blight. My life is sunny and blight. ‘Bright’ means the opposite — it means sudden withering death. And that’s… not… Oh, who am I kidding, my life is full of bright…”

“Dad..?” Orel replied, terrified that his father would lose composure.

“Oh, God.”

“What’s happening, Dad!?” Orel cried.

"Oh, I hate myself…”

He runs out of liquor in the bottle. He stares at his reflection, silently hoping that it would be the last time he’d have to see it.

“Why do you quit working on me!?!”

Everything goes silent. No birds chirping, no crickets, no owls in the night.

“She always fools me, Orel. ‘I’ll make things better dear! Drink me! Put me inside of you, I’m great!’ And then she chokes me just like every other whore out there!! They’re all worthless, kid! Every woman. Don’t let ‘em get ya! All of them just wanna get ya! They just grab you and pull you into ‘em! And then you’re forced to stay in, pull out. Stay in, and pull out!! And then they cut ya! And they grip ya by the… right where it counts! And then they start SQUEEZING things out! Things that are like weights around your head! You’re stuck there for the rest of your life, with NOWHERE to go and NO ONE to be!!! AAAAGH!!!”

The scene faded out.

"What's so bad about that?! It's useful advice!" Clay exclaimed, deluded by his own prejudice.

"Just wait, mortal."

The scene reappeared. It opens to clay and Orel sitting across from each other, with clay in a drunken stupor. Orel is now as far away from Clay as he can be while still on a log.

"It's time you became a man. Where's my rifle!?" Clay yells, searching for it/

"Dad, I don't think-"

"There it is! No mistakes, no accidents, no fuck-ups, no blunders."

"Dad! W-What are you doing?!"

"Somethin' important!!"

A single, lone spark flew. Following it was an ear-splitting bang. No noise could be heard after that, other than the ringing going through both of their ears.

"D-...Dad…"

The scene fades for the final time.

Clay was frozen.

"Do you realize thy fault now? Are you able to comprehend the weight of your sin?! Do you finally see that your actions have consequences, Puppington!?" The ethereal voice boomed. Its volume was so loud that Clay was shaken back into reality.

Clay was speechless. Instead of pleading for his case, he simply stood there thinking. He didn't need to speak, for his god could tell exactly what he was thinking.

I couldn't have done that. But I did. How? Why? What do I do!? What do I do?!

But then a thought hit him.

Just give up. You've been so dedicated to your Lord your entire life. Give everything to Him.

"Please…" Clay said, hopeless and weak. Clay then fell to his knees. He didn't dare to raise his head, or so much as stand up.

"Please what?" The deity spoke. Tears began to roll down Clay's cheeks as he remained there kneeling before his God.

"Please… Have mercy," he muttered. He was too weak to raise his voice.

"Forgive me, Lord. Forgive me. I'm weak without you, God."

"You beseech for something you could not give to your own, Clayton. The kingdom of heaven does not allow those like you."

The sword of light raised up once more, as Clay said his final vow.

"I'm sorry, Orel."

A scream rang out. The scream of a weak, hopeless, self-destructive, and miserable young boy. The light disappeared, and all that was left was a soul, going to neither heaven nor hell. The soul was trapped in the mortal world, and had a chain around its neck.

Suddenly, Orel walked into the study. As he stepped further, something came into view.

The end of a chain that led directly to his neck.

RB AND LIKE I SPENT SO MUCH TKMD ON THIS OKAY BYE

[moralorelconfessions]

I really don't get why people are now treating danielle having sex with prostitutes as a bad thing, it's their job. as for the dog, it's mores a badly aged joke than a character trait because way people having sex with animals" is a negative stereotype.

(same danielle anon here) i feel like some of y'all watched honor and completely misinterpreted danielle's actions out of hatred for his character. he was never redeemed, nor did he have ulterior motives. he was just doing something nice for orel; both characters have some kind of complicated relationship towards clay in which they're forced to ask themselves "why do i even like this person", so it makes sense for orel reaching out to danielle and the latter not having the answers.

me again) it's not like danielle was trying to take the moral high ground, he was just as confused and conflicted as orel. yeah, he did bad things, but the point of the show (which some of yall deliberately ignore) is that people are human beings. that being said, just because danielle was a shitty guy to orel's family in the past, doesn't mean he's not allowed to do good things, too. danielle rejecting clay's love is a big deal for him; his entire trait was how much he obsessed over him.

(part 3?) yeah, danielle didn't really care that clay was a bad father, but keep in mind that he didn't even KNOW what was going on behind the curtains. clay's brief rant about orel in honor doesn't convey much other than "'m disappointed in my son, something i'm p sure most parents have said. when orel complained about the events of nature to danielle, the latter didn't even say anything, he just listened and understood he was hurt.

in conclusion, nobody is saying you have to like danielle. he has a history of using people for his own benefit, but that doesn't mean his character shouldn't be more nuanced than that (cause that's writing), him standing up for orel, the victim of clay's abuse, is a big fucking deal considering how desperately danielle fought to initiate a romantic relationship with him. stop watering it down to something it isn't to justify your hate boner for his character

These were all sent around the same time and the anon said that I could publish them all in one.

[clownkiwi]

genuinely hate the way heaven and hell is set up in hazbin like. in all honesty. whats the point of using the dantes inferno layers of hell if you are only allowed to use the pride layer. for every sinner. why the fuck would that make sense. like. a serial killer would be in the like. idfk wrath or lust (bloodlust) layer. dantes inferno isnt even fucking canonical to the bible.

the angel designs are flat, their movements feel stilted to me, all the humans in heaven just have a color swapped monster design just like the sinners.

and no fucking shit people think alastar is fucking white, you only find out that he mixed race from somewhere else. i only found out through my friend that the guy is half black because he saw a video or something of her drawing alaster in his human form (this sounds aggressive, but i am not doing that towards you this is in total agreement wirh you)

also i think adam as an angel is stupid as shit from like the standpoint of someone who is interested in the bible in the way greek myth isnt "canonical"/is separate from greek gods

the designs look like theyre still a fucking pain to animate, and i do genuinely like a lot of the designs, i think angel dust is iconic and uh. the bat cat guy looks pretty cool, i think theyre more for like. comic books.

story feels flat and rushed, and very much like i'm watching a childrens show for adults, and i fucking hate adult shows that think putting sex, seears, blood and gore in their product is soooooo fucking mature and cool of them and its just boring and samey and it fucking sucks. if hazbin was nade by someone else i'm sufe the peoduct wouldve been handled so much better and treated the audience like adults

LITERALLY THIS THIS THIS!!!!

for the first part, of the lore. the lore gets so much more fucking confusing and lamer if you watch the spinoff helluva boss. they go into more detail & spend more time in the other layers for each episode, but theyre all so lame and predictable. the lust layer is pink and full of clubs & bars because. romance??? the greed layer is green and pretty much chicago, especially with the demon mobs (demon mobs Should sound more fun). the wrath ring is red/orange and like The Middle Western Desert that literally takes place during the Wild West from USAmerica. LIKE they made dantes inferno LAME!!! wheres the imagination??? was the best you could come up with for greed "chicago" and wrath "the wild west"???? come on

and the way heaven and hell are addressed is so much more confusing. like. the angels have a Moral code Not To Kill, even if theyre demons (in the episode the angel opposite of IMP are focused on, they lose their jobs when they indirectly kill a guy they weren't supposed to kill), which comes into direct conflict with what the angels Were ALREADY DOING IN HAZBIN???

itd be one thing if they were taking place apart from each other in the timeline, and we don't really know that ATM, but they're supposed to take place in the same universe, so they never really seem to make up their minds on what they wanna do with that???

AND LIKE the core concept of hazbin hotel is broken from the very worldbuilding the show is built on. no demon would ever wanna work on redeeming themselves by just going to a hotel, and even in cases when they do, its really just to sabotage each other, before they solve their problems like. my fucking little pony. i cant believe this was a show made for the same target group as bojack horseman or moral orel, it makes me sick

and this idea isnt broken either!!! it can work!!! the good place worked and improved on this idea In Strides and did it with much more maturity and respect for its audience than vivziepop could even do for two of her shows

like hazbin hotel & helluva boss could be improved upon, they just need Better Writers and a Stronger Vision for where the story could go. im not even being a hater Just Because (altho i am), i'm just really upset that this was the direction the show is seemingly going to with no stop. ive seen people that have looked up to vivziepop as inspiration and felt deeply betrayed when the story was shit, when the writing was horrible, its really disappointing to see. i think the only people left watching this are people who think what vivziepop is doing is good, even if she spends more than half her time online looking up her shows to try to fight back against any and all criticism

[rarilee33]

Moral Orel people (hi) there is something on ao3 which is a criticism of our fandom's behaviour at large and I wanted to address a few of the points in the second chapter because it bothers me. Not the concept itself, fine, and I wouldn't address it if that were all, but. The person speaks to the show being a 'silly satire on Christianity and family dynamics' until it became a 'roller coaster of sadness' both in and around the show, and the person wishes it had never reached that point (they say verbatim 'it should not have gotten this far' with 'this' I assume referring to the previous point they made). Of course the show did take a turn at Nature and everything season 3, and the cancelled rest of the show (that never saw its full potential because the network deemed it too dark after claiming they wanted something darker). This shift in tone is spoken of negatively and it is fine to criticise the show but something doesn't sit right with me about this take. Maybe because it feels reductive, stripping away the more serious critiques of Christian fundamentalism and the themes explored that were alluded to in season one and pre-Nature season two, amidst the satirical tone the earlier episodes took.

Next, I cannot find evidence to substantiate the pretty serious claim about Dino being blacklisted from Hollywood because of giving an actress heroin. If someone has confirmation otherwise that's one thing. As far as I'm aware Dino is doing fine and has his own projects going on.

In the following section there is the idea that it's bad to write sex just for itself, for no other reason, a la pwp. And the adjacent point which I take more umbrage with is the claim that those of us who consider ourselves homosexuals and ship the characters as only gay (which I'm not sure what that means but I think they are referring to making a character staunchly gay or lesbian as opposed to questioning or bisexual for example) are equivalent to proshippers. Which idea I disagree with. These are not in the same category, considering what proshippers have written and with whom.

Please don't send hate or anything to this person. I am only addressing this because I wanted to discuss some specific points that are or could be problematic or I wanted to elaborate on.

[iamstuckinthevoid]

Intro!!!!

btw if ur my moot u can tag me in anything (ik some people get nervous abt that)

Pronouns: she/her

Sideblogs:

@iamstuckinthevoidreblogging3

@yassified-slenderman

@in-stars-time-and-zombies-au

(If its not on here, its not mine!!!!)

Warnings:

I'll probably post about s/h, it's all tagged but just a foreword to blacklist that shit (eg: tw sh, cw sh, tw sh mention, cw sh mention, etc.) Also don't worry abt me I've been clean for a while (and do not want to kill myself this is mostly just jokes abt it)

Fandoms I might talk about (or if you want to talk about them just dm): Moral Orel, DHMIS, DDLC, FNAF, The Stanley Parable, BATIM/BATDR, Helluva Boss/Hazbin Hotel (only critically though, fuck vivziepop), Heathers, The Good Place, JTHM, Squee, Invader Zim, Red Dwarf (please talk to me about this one), Doctor Who, I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream, Cult of the Lamb, Mindless Self Indulgence, NIИ, American Psycho.

DNI:

I don't care what you do tbh I'll just block you if I don't want you on here (EXEPT ADULTXMINOR OR INSCEST SHIPPERS) (oh and Mercedes owners, you know what you did)

Age: I'm not comfortable saying exactly, but I am a minor

Shit I post: art, ocs and writing stuff. I mostly just reblog shit I can actually contribute to tho.

Uquizzes:

(Silly friend group stuff)

(Totally not a cult)

(Smorky)

(Quiz from that time i went to an open mic lol)

(I regret making this I WAS A KID WHEN I WAS CRUSHING ON THEM OK??)

Tags:

#this is literally amazing- stuff I really like.

#this is literally so funny- stuff I find funny.

#keys speaks- original posts, most of my older ones don't havi this one so whoops.

#keys speaks of irl- irl posts, ditto for the above.

#GOD BLESS KING AND COUNTRY- complaining about where I live/UK stuff.

#Keys&Toddney- some ocs

#smorkposting- click on that tag here and see him yourself.

#keys if they were written by vivziepop- for like EXCESSIVE swearing (I actually don't care about censorship it's just a funny joke)

#art- self explanatory.

#ocs- ditto.

#asks from the void- asks

#complaints department- being a pissy lil bitch

#useful- stuff that is informative

#useful for later- same thing

#Keys speaks of The Void- in character stuff for Keys (my sona), feel free to give them an ask!

#shadow guys- my shadow dudes

#ghost oc- that guy

#manniquinn guy- minnie the tiny ass bitch

#ian core- shitty haircut man

#cherri- robot girl

[torchickentacos]

Summarizing TV shows I've never seen

Breaking Bad: takes place where high school musical did. Jesse and Walter. 99% sure Walter's the bald chem teacher. Jesse is either gay, homophobic, or both (?). There's a lawyer woman named Skylar who Walt may or may not be hitting on the side, not sure. Meth.

Yugioh: kid has cards that can summon magical creatures. I think there's a hell realm. There's one guy, Marik, who is actually two guys in one I think, but I wouldn't swear by it.

My Hero Academia: something to do with toe joints????? Is that like. correct???? I distinctly remember something about that. There's the frog guy, bakugou (the zuko one), Deku (not the zelda tree), and the girl that looks like May from pokemon or Suki from ATLA.

Fairy Tail: I actually have seen this one but couldn't tell you a damn thing about it. There's a guild thing. Lots of fanservice. Guy with the scarf.

Miraculous Ladybug: guy and girl are in love but also superheroes who are in love and nobody knows the oter is in love and a superhero? Shenanigans ensue. They're a ladybug and a cat but in a superhero way and not a furry way.

Fox 911: copaganda but firefighters????? no idea. Swifties really like it.

Friends: I've seen SOME episodes. Two of the guys look like the same guy to me and I can't tell them apart. Friends say I'm the phoebe because she's kind of got a hippie vibe. Rachel and Monica are not wlw apparently but you could have fooled me. SMELLY CAT. Also what's his name... david schwimmer. His character is kind of annoying to me. He had a monkey once? Also CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP!!!!

Supernatural: dude. NO fucking idea. Superhell. The two guys might be gay? or brothers? There's a third guy I think???? Someone's gay and someone's got a brother? They had a scooby doo crossover. Demons.

Doctor who: time travel in a phone booth??? There's a bunch of doctors. fifteen of them? One said feminist rights or something???

Supernatural: Sadie Sink, who people said I looked like in my red hair era. I think we're both just scots-irish 20somethings though idk. 80's. Byler. A lot of bowl cuts, unfortunately.

Amphibia: frogs and a blonde girl???

Moral Orel: No idea but it kind of scares me /lh. @blossyossyossy likes it.

Modern Family: family issues but there's a bazillion of them. My mom says I look like Haley dunphy. Idk who that is. Funny enough, Haley dunphy and Sadie sink look nothing alike yet I've been told I look like both of them. I don't see either, tbh.

[thebekashow]

I JUST FINISHED WATCHING ALL OF MORAL OREL-

!!major spoilers!! so I had only ever watched little snippets of Moral Orel, and I thought: "huh! can't be that bad.. why does nobody ever show the ending?" I know why now. and oh. my. god. on one hand: woohoo! Orel got his happy ending! on the other.. it feels very.. bland :/ I'm happy Orels happy! but at the same time, it made me wonder "what happened to everyone else?" we know Mrs. Censordoll planned on doing stuff to the town, but the sad thing is, because the Adult Swim executives pulled the plug, we never got to know what said plan is. and I know, before you say: "But Beka! they didn't have enough time!". I am fully aware of it! which is why I wish they hadn't called it off. it makes me mad that Adult Swim lets weird unnecessary shows go on forever and ever, but its too much if they get serious in it. I am glad Orel got his happily ever after, and I just hope everyone else did too. we know Reverend and his daughter reconnected, Nurse Bendy got her son back, Shapey and Block are firefighter and police. oh, and Orel broke the cycle of abuse :) thats all I gotta say- thanks for coming to ma ted talk!

(i will be making fanart of the show soon! :D)

[monarch-boo]

Okay so, *months* ago now I had two very vivid Moral Orel- related dreams that I have been meaning to share as soon as I had them, but I just haven't really gotten around to it until just now. I've remembered them this whole time because they are kinda fascinating to me.

☆☆☆ I had no knowledge of the show itself in the dreams, it would seem. In the world of these dreams I was never at any point like "oh it's such and such from Moral Orel", no, it was genuinely like these were just actual people who lived in my area and I met up with sometimes. There were *some* things I knew about, but it was never like I knew those things from the show, I knew them from seeing them around in the past "IRL" in this dream world, it seems.

I had each of these dreams only a couple days apart. I had also been watching video essays about the show before sleeping both times so that's probably what triggered these... and I swear to fuck I'm not making these up.

I'm actually gonna readmore this and split it into two posts since this got long as hell. This post is only the first dream.

▪︎The First Dream▪︎ I went on a little trip with Clay and Orel to some kind of massive indoor flea market. Didn't resemble anywhere I had ever been or knew of, guess my mind completely fabricated a place.

Clay really did not like me (I mean, he definitely wouldn't), in fact he insisted I keep my distance from him and Orel once we arrived to the place. He even made me wait until the two were almost in the building before I even left the car, he wanted that badly to not be seen with me.

We had separately been looking through stuff people were selling, when at some point we unintentionally ran into each other in the same room. I want to note here that Orel had a cast on his leg the whole dream (and yes, it was his left leg. I made absolutely no connection with the hunting trip until after I woke up, had no idea about it whatsoever in my dream seemingly. Only strengthens my idea that these dreams just had them as real people in our world, because if I knew anything of the show in this dream I sure as shit would've known that). I tried to greet Orel, Clay got irritated with me and distanced himself and Orel to the other side of the room while saying some rude shit I unfortunately don't remember now. In response I kinda just blurted out "Hey, fuck you". Clay responds "Fuck me?!?" and goes on some kind of rant with a You Wish You Could Fuck Me sort of conclusion. He didn't say *exactly* that, I remember that much, but whatever he *did* say basically boiled down to that, you know?

At this point I had a strong, STRONG urge to clap back with something along the lines of "I'm actually more interested in your drinking buddy" (this is the "some things I knew about" I stated at the start of the post. Apparently saw enough of Clay in the past that I was into Stopframe and knew enough about his and Clay's interactions that bringing him up in this manner would REALLY piss Clay off).

BUT I ultimately held my tongue because my "Hey, fuck you," was an accident anyway and I felt bad enough that I cussed in earshot of Orel, the fact it only triggered more f-bombs in a sexually charged rant from Clay also in earshot of Orel had me kinda mortified, so I figured I should just shut up and go check out a different room.

I just went through various tables and rooms and bought a handful of things when I eventually found Orel alone (well, separated from Clay at least, there were all sorts of random market-goers around), sitting down to rest his leg a bit. I asked if he was doing alright, he said he was fine. He seemed a bit distant. I didn't really know what to do or say so I just took his word for it and went to the next room. Unfortunately I don't know what happened with Clay and Orel next because I just looked at more merch for a short while before I woke up.

Random thing about this dream though, a weirdly specific thing my mind completely fabricated, at least I think so since I've never heard of these being a thing IRL. Something I saw somebody selling in the dream. Those plushie backpack things, where you usually open up their back and there's a smallish pouch to hold stuff. Happy Tree Friends ones. That specifically depict them frightened and/or injured. Instead of opening up the back you would unzip whatever part of their body as if it were a wound or severance, like flip the top of their skull open or open up their chest vertically or their belly horizontally, different characters/designs had their zippers in different places. They even had bloody red colored lining inside, like come on. My dream cooked there, these should be real.

[robotlesbianjavert]

i’ve been following you for a while and i love your blog! got a question however: i see you blogging moral orel and i’ve never seen it but from what i’ve read on wikipedia, how would you compare the bad dad to bnha’s bad dads. is he fit to join the club. looking at him gives me afo vibes somehow.

eyyyyy thanks for following and keeping up !! you're a trooper. anyways clay puppington is way way worse than the bnha bad dads. like easy clear. one of the best characters! but definitely the worst dad.

moral orel primer

The thing about Moral Orel is that it's an edgy-ish mid 2000s satire about hypocritical fundamentalist Protestant environments and how badly one eager and god-loving kid can be lead to misinterpret the bible. It's got that irreverent humour. Skip the episode "God's Xhef" if you ever watch it. To set up my point, one of the running gags for the series is that at the result of Orel's shenanigans is Clay taking Orel to his study to belt him. And then his pants fall down! haha.

The series then takes a swerve, starting from the first season Christmas episode and leading into the third season, for a darker, more character-driven narrative. It delves more into the citizens of Moralton, the impact that their Christian environment has on them and their relationships with each other, and bits of history to understand how they turned out the way they did, etc

One of the characters most impacted here is Clay. While he's always been the second-most prominent character after Orel himself, and their relationship is central to the story, it's with this new take on the story that Clay really becomes the deuteragonist of the series. He becomes that much more fascinating a character, and his treatment of Orel and his family becomes that much more vile. Sadly the third season is cut short, reportedly after execs saw a particularly dark episode (not Orel or Clay related!) and thought. hm. that wasn't funny.

I lay that all out to explain that while Moral Orel starts off as a pretty silly, shock-value cartoon about how weird Christians are, it also depicts a lot of serious subject matters, and the treatment of that is much more frank and realistic and difficult as the series progresses.

So while he becomes a much more developed character that the audience can understand, Clay's abusive behaviour loses a lot of that wink-wink satirical irony. He's also CRAZY pathetic.

also it's got the mountain goats! that's how i first found moral orel!

how comparable is it to bnha?

First things first, I do think there are largely interesting things to say about how BNHA depicts abuse, despite the downhill trend of writing in the third act that I complain about all the time. I don't think every aspect is perfect, but it's like. I do think there's more positive to say there than how other stories depict abuse. There's actually lots that I love about what the series does, or think that it could do were it not hobbled by things and stuff.

Ultimately, there isn't really a bulletproof way of comparing fictional abusive situations to another, because respective to real life you can't compare one abusive situation against the other.

But one can compare things like the genre and structure of a story, who the intended audience is, what the production of the story is like, how much time and focus can be devoted to certain subjects and what the actual focus is meant to be, etc etc.

Moral Orel can pull together different elements of abuse, like the suffocating environment of Christian fundamentalism, the abuse of a self-destructive alcoholic, the neglect that comes from mutually disaffected and inept parents, the generational nature of abuse, so on and so forth in a sincere way. Meanwhile BNHA, as a weekly serialized shonen battle manga whose creator has become increasingly rundown, has Things To Say, but doesn't necessarily have the same capacity to devote its power to those things. Abuse is vital to the themes of BNHA, but it's not the center of it the way it is for Moral Orel.

So when Clay does his thing, stripped of the fantastical couching of BNHA's bad dads, it just feels more real and it feels worse as a result.

anyways.

clay SMASH bnha's bad dad club

Never a question that Clay is a worse dad than Enji lmao. However one feels about Endeavour's arc, or how well-written or 'deserved' it is, or how successful and genuine Enji is in his efforts, at the very least he's realised that he's done wrong and wants to atone for it, while also grappling with the fact that there may be no way for him to do that. spoilers but clay shan't do this. you get flickers that he has regrets, but he'll NEVER change baby.

I guess Clay gets a one-up where his marriage with Bloberta is mutually destructive, harmful, and toxic in comparison to Enji unambiguously abusing Rei though. so failmarriage win.

Kotarou is actually similar to Clay though! Lots to say, to compare and contrast. I'm actually kind of obsessed, especially because what I said about Clay being more realistic also applies to Kotarou - Kotarou just gets less screentime. They're both deeply affected by their childhood and relationships with their own parents in ways they take it out on their children (the "explained but not excused" idea behind fictional depictions of generational abuse). They also project an image of the upper(?)-middle class family man and Patriarch of the household, either to make up for the failings of their childhood or because it's what expected of them as a man in their world. (Wee bit of conjecture on Kotarou's part but I think it has solid grounding.)

But there's also significant differences. Physical abuse is normalized as corporal between Clay and Orel, on top of the emotional abuse, manipulation, and neglect. Kotarou's abuse of Tenko is largely emotional, with the big slap implied to be the first time that abuse manifested as physical and a line crossed for the rest of the family. And while I'm sure some people would debate this, the idea that Kotarou promised Nao a home full of joy feels genuine. He did want that, the happy family full of smiles he lost as a kid, only for his own resentment to poison everything when Tenko can't obey the rules Kotarou created and enforced to achieve it. Clay, on the other hand, like. There's bits of him implying he loves his family but doesn't have the means to show or act on it, but when he has a whole speech about the sacrifices he makes for his family, family never rings as more than an obligation that he has to put up with for the appearance of manhood.

And Shigaraki can have xyz feelings about his dad forever, but he accepts and espouses the one true lesson Kotarou taught him, that heroes can't do shit all. His father was always a scary and domineering figure, but it feels like while he will never forgive him, Shigaraki does understand him more as an adult. Meanwhile, Orel tries as hard as he can to honour thy father until he can't anymore.

Again, I think that Clay and Kotarou are probably most comparable in terms of being the Bad Dad with some similar hang-ups and relationships to their kids, but part of what makes Kotarou interesting is that we don't know what he would have done had Tenko's quirk not triggered how and when it did. With his family finally willing to push back against him and himself feeling regret for hitting Tenko, could he have changed? We don't know! But much like I said when talking about Enji, Clay's never going to change.

All For One has become more of a cartoon villain that I am determined to turn into a dress up doll for my own amusement than a bad dad and is more evil guardian or whatever. BUT there's one thing that I almost forgot about when I was first writing this up, but realised is actually soooo interesting.

There's a lot to say about AFO and Clay being the primary "teacher" to Shigaraki and Orel! I that while AFO does influence Shigaraki's villainous ideals, he also lets society and Shigaraki's experiences speak for themselves. And frankly, Shigaraki has a lot of leeway and agency in evolving his ideals through his own experiences, particularly after AFO's incarceration. He sees AFO for what he is, probably has for a long time, and is determined to establish his own identity outside of AFO regardless of what Shigaraki has learned from him. Clay is much more strict and obvious about imposing his worldview on his son, but while Orel is desperate for his dad's approval and love and can be led to do things that feel wrong for that love, Orel never absorbs those lessons the way that Clay wants him to, and separating himself from his father and come to terms with what Clay has done is a much more difficult process.

but mostly i just think that clay could do this

and afo could do this

beautiful world.

[moralpuppet]

what’s your phone wallpaper: currently some fanart of orel

last song you listened to : “The Bug Collector by Hayley Heynderickx"

currently reading : hm, well I read a lot of novella fanfic about characters I like and plots I wish would happen so yeah

last movie : Mario Movie

last show : Moral Orel (we're hyperfixating and collecting icon shots at the same time.

what are you wearing right now: literally a crop top and a skirt (I just woke up but usually I wear lots of pink dresses)

piercings / tattoos? : ears! / I want a tattoo though of a drawing I did of my oc who is a teddy bear with lots of eyes added to her

glasses ? contacts? : nope

last thing you ate?: cereal

favorite color(s) : pink and yellow, mostly pink

current obsession/S : Five Nights at Freddy's, Don't Hug Me I'm Scared & Moral Orel

do you have a crush right now? : nah

favorite fictional character : Funtime Freddy, Yellow Guy & Orel Puppington in no order at all!

tagged by: @ wendyfulmother & pvachypessa

tagging: anyone else who wants to do this!