#theseus slander

[just-an-enby-lemon]

If you are an "Odysseus deserves to be crying every day in Calypsos island for seven years." fuck you. No he didn't. Yes, Odysseus is a fucked up guy. No he didn't deserve that. Even if he wasn't my babygirl, pet liar, he would not have deserved that. I wouldn't have said that even to Theseus and I hate that bitch so fucking much. No one, no one, deserves to be a victim!

[sarafangirlart]

“Perseus killed Medusa and was hailed as a hero 😤” yes bitch he used Medusa’s head to kill his mother’s attempted rapist and his goons yes he’s a damn hero.

[darkwater-reservoir]

[i-hate-theseus]

theseus thinks X is a cooler name for twitter

[malfiora]

my biggest gripe with Hades is the Theseus slander.

he is, and always has been, my favorite Greek hero. SHOW HIM SOME RESPECT, ZAGREUS

[cantripcattrip]

I'll just come out and say it if C!Tommy know the full story about Theseus he would be insulted. Specifically the part where Theseus ditch Ariadne (the person who betrayed her own family and give him the idea to get out of the labyrinth alive) and the fact that Theseus kidnapped Helen (a CHILD at the time) to he could married her and then go on to assist his friend to kidnapped another woman.

Like C!Tommy would not and should not stand for such slander

[nicki0kaye]

expand on your zagreus pissing off asterius tags pls i would like to hear them :3

Just like!!! the implication that Theseus is a 'bad influence' on a guy who has clearly been in Elysium longer than Zag's probably been alive

and take all this with a grain of salt, I haven't replayed Hades in a hot minute, but I've had this opinion since I got into the mf

like, I'm sure Zag doesn't mean anything by it, if you read the codex, there is no real mention of what Asterius went through, he clearly has no idea what actually happened during either Asterius' or Theseus' lives and cannot follow why certain things piss Theseus off so much

so Zag has no idea he's talking down to a guy who ate people to survive. There's a lot of hero worship getting in the way. And Asterius is polite to him out of a sense of honor, but it's clear he doesn't consider Zag a friend. Asterius doesn't have issues with chatty mfs, he's in an eternal fraternal bond with Theseus ffs, but he keeps his conversations with Zag curt and to the point, and imo it's bc he's sure Zag sees him as a poor babby who is being led around by the nose and had/has no actual agency in his relationship with Theseus.

When Theseus is losing his shit over Zag replacing him, Asterius says something along the lines of "he's no threat to our bond; he doesn't even understand it." Like...to Asterius, Zag serves his purpose. He's a fun kid to spar with. That is the extent of their relationship in his eyes, bc he isn't going to degrade himself to get this kid to understand he is right where he wants to be, doing what he wants to do, and no one has caged him or manipulated him to get him here. If Zag can't see that using his own eyes, he isn't worth the wasted breath to explain it, beyond correcting direct statements. Theseus is the man he respects most, not because Theseus is his king or bc he owes Theseus for bringing him to Elysium (though he may site that as means of shorthand), but bc Theseus has earned that respect and trust through action.

I wrote a whole fic trying to deconstruct this idea that Asterius would only know Theseus in Elysium, that he only learned about the world through Theseus' guidance--and also the idea that Asterius is an inherently noble soul who had no issues adjusting after spending his entire mortal life in periods of isolation broken only by having to murder for food and survival. I like the idea that Asterius chooses to be noble and polite, chooses how he presents himself to others, makes those choices based on years of experience and trial and error in socializing from an extremely unique and disadvantaged position as a literal monster in paradise. And yes he chooses to emulate Theseus, but that's still an informed choice. He loves and respects that idiot, and he keeps Zagreus at arms length. What's the difference? Theseus actually knows who Asterius is and respects him in turn.

If you want more Zagreus slander, I wrote another fic that diverges halfway through to drag him for not understanding dick about shit

[fool-of-a-took1]

I will now share my list of the worst ships I’ve seen because wtf

1. Edmund Pevensie/Severus Snape

(Hehehe nooooo why noo)

1 Work

2. Draco Malfoy/Lucius Malfoy

(WHAT IS THIS?! INCEST!)

348 Works

3. Helen Parr | Elastigirl/Violet Parr

(INCEST)

13 Works

4. Dash Parr/Violet Parr

(Stop with the fucking incest)

9 Works

5. Bob Parr | Mr. Incredible/Violet Parr

(STOP IT)

9 Works

6. Dash Parr/Helen Parr | Elastigirl/Violet Parr

(FUCKING HELL)

4 Works

7. Simon Brown/Nanny McPhee

(No just no)

Not on ao3

8. Peter Pevensie/Susan Pevensie

(INCEST!! AGAIN!)

129 Works

9. Edmund Pevensie/Peter Pevensie

(INCEST!)

94 Works

10. Aziz/Ben/Doug/Evie/Jane/Jay/Mal/Carlos de Vil

(So many people)(actually don’t really have anything against it I just almost died trying to read the tag)

4 Works

11. Draco Malfoy/Fred Weasley

(Fuck no)

83 Works

12. Harry Potter/Severus Snape

(NOO absolutely NOT)

15,246 works (oh that’s bullshit)

13. Sirius Black/Charlie Weasley

(PEDOPHILIA! And just wrong generally)(idk, might not be pedophilia but it’s not right)

46 works

14. Hermione Granger/James Potter

(Dude wtf, they ship her with everyone)

271 works

15. Sirius Black/Severus Snape

(Nope nope ew ew ew!!)

2,126 works

16. Peggy Carter/Newt Scamander

(Not really bad ig but it’s interesting)(and how did that happen?)

1 work

17. Newt Scamander/Theseus Scamander

(Incest.. again)(people really like that for some reason)

1,155 works

18. Albus Dumbledore/Newt Scamander

(Okay first of all love Dumbledoor slander second of all NO!!)

184 works

19. Arthur Weasley/Ginny Weasley

(Aww come ooon stop it! Stop the incest! What is wrong with people?)

30 works

20. Hermione Granger/Rubeus Hagrid

(Wow they really do ship her with anyone)

21 works

21. Fang/Hermione Granger

(How? How did we get here? How did we make it worse?)

5 works (and it’s not even only one)

22. James Potter/Severus Snape

(NO NO NO JUST NOO)

929 works

23. Sirius Black/Lily Evans

(Yeah no not really my ballpark)(how did you even get it to this?)

75 works

24. Fenrir Greyback/Remus Lupin

(Definitely have not read this because I wanted an abusive relationship with Sirius swooping in later…)

122 works

25. Sirius Black/Tom Riddle

(… I’m not even gonna try)

30 works

26. Neville Longbottom/Severus Snape

(Why is this a thing?)(he is a teacher that fucking bullied him)

161 works

27. Draco Malfoy/Harry Potter/Severus Snape

(I’m sorry, is your brain fried?)

442 works

28. Sirius Black/Severus Snape

(Stop it, seriously)

2,126 works (okay I told myself not to comment on the amount but wtf is that?)

29. Regulus Black/Severus Snape

(ABSOLUTELY NOT!!)

483 works

30. Regulus Black/Sirius Black

(I mean I already knew blackcest was a thing but come ooon)

456 works

That’s not even all of it, I have more

(Also fyi I did know and expect the incest but I write it down because it’s bad and it’s a lot)

[sophieinwonderland]

i think you're losing some scope here. i know the tumblr tags represent more to you, but you clearly have drastically shifted your aims

you don't uplift endogenic systems anymore, not really. you seem more anti-anti-endo than pro-endo these days, and as someone who followed you early on, i have to say i understand but it makes me sad and uncomfortable enough to finally have to say i don't really fully support what's going on here

i know you have been relentlessly abused and slandered for 3 years by a community of people that shifts and grows and changes endlessly, like a ship of theseus of mean teenagers. i know you can and have changed minds. but you no longer seem to care about even that; you really genuinely seem to be lashing out, saying things that are deeply unnerving to endos and anti-endos alike, those with religious trauma AND many with the common sense to know that yes, proselytizing IS often harmful. There is a reason missionaries are tools of colonialism. im almost certain you know this and are just being inflammatory, but the friendly fire is IMMENSE. You look foolish and dangerous to many of us, and again that makes me sad and honestly a little worried for you

i think maybe finding another plural community to post activism in is a good idea, or at the very least a tumblr hiatus. it's ultimately up to you, and you are the arbiter of your own mental health, but please at least consider the things I've said here. i know im on anon but again i have had a lot of respect for you for a long time, especially for staying compassionate and composed given the context, but i couldn't fault you for any of this. i just hope you find something both more productive and more rewarding.

i could totally be misreading this and you are making these decisions for some solely rational reasons and you ARE more active elsewhere, but. i dont know. you dont seem to post positivity like headcanons anymore, just neverending anon hate and intentionally inflammatory (often triggering) pseudo-religious doctrine. that doesn't seem healthy for anyone, including your endogenic follower base

proselytizing IS often harmful. There is a reason missionaries are tools of colonialism. ... you dont seem to post positivity like headcanons anymore

I really do want to get back to the headcanon posts.

At least the big ones seem to take a lot of effort and I haven't really been feeling it for a while.

But I do find it ironic that you would say this when those very posts ARE my proselytism. To the extent that I proselytize my ideology to other communities, these are the posts that I consider most valuable to those aims of gaining outside support.

I don't openly proselytize in the way of "you should become plural and make a tulpa because plurality is cool and will help you feel better" the way Christians might because that feels scummy. Even if early studies are showing mental health gains from tulpamancy and I might be justified in doing so.

But I will make a huge post about how the Avatar is actually plural, trying to tone down my plural language and explain the terms I use in ways that non-plurals will be able to understand, with the intent of introducing them to plurality and get them on board with pro-endo ideology.

And if after learning about plurality, they decide on their own to make a tulpa due to resources I provide, or realize they were already plural because of similar experiences to myself or other systems I interact with then that's a huge win.

Those posts are the gateway, the same way missionaries might provide food or medicine or other types of support to local communities as a gateway, I provide detailed fan theories with lots of pictures to keep them entertained, and make sure to post them all over the tags of that fandom. Any fandom tags that are relevant, and then with plural tags to fill the rest out. In fact, I think of it a two-pronged approach, where plural tags help me get more notes from plurals and cause the post to appear higher up in the fandom tags to reach non-plurals.

You may think my focus has changed... and you'd be right about that. Lately, I've put a lot more focus on arguing. Maybe more than I should.

But as far as "proselytizing" is concerned, those posts you want me to to do more of have been my vehicle for it. Just less overtly.

And I don't think I've been particularly subtle about stating the intent behind them.

I'm stopping just short of some of the most manipulative tactics religions employ, but I'm self-aware enough to realize that I've always only been a few steps from them.

Frankly, if you want to spread an ideology, it would be silly to not look at the most successful ideologies, whether political, religious or even moral philosophies, and figure out why they were able to achieve the dominance they did.

[tuesday-teyz]

So Prince Theseus found himself to be on the modern age?! And he met the alternate version of Philza. And what's his basic reaction?

Turned around and bolt...

This is gonna be either a good thing or bad thing. Maybe mix bag?

Possibly also I have Social Worker Clara on my hate list of supporting or extra characters. But I felt smug that Theseus slander her up....

Tommy be like

[360iris]

Now that Hogwarts Legacy is out, there’s so much more Hufflepuff slander going around and when I say I take it all so personally????

I might have to switch houses because I defend Cedric, Tonks and Theseus heavy shdh like that’s my gang 😭✋

[300iqprower]

That Asterios event better not have Theseus slander

What? Of course not, you don't take me for one of those Medea-Revisionist types do you? Theseus is the welfare Assassin of the event!

[calmthefuckdownalright]

I Renounce You Part 4

A/N: Wooo...we’re down to page 9 of 13!! Friendly reminder this idea is inspired by @tuesday-teyz and is NOT canon of any sort and is just a little take on how I think the story COULD (not should, it’s going great rn thank you) have ended if it’s author wanted to cut the chord right after Tommy broke that chair.

Anyway, enjoy

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To the right of His Imperial Highness were the other two princes. Wilbur had his hands behind his back and his shoulders straight as an arrow and Technoblade kept a hand on the hilt of his sword. To the left was Ranboo dressed in a black and white suit with a blue ribbon belt tied around his waist and a necklace of what looked like a cat’s eye around his neck. Tubbo stood close by just behind the lanky boy.

“Theseus, do you understand why you’ve been called here?” The Emperor bit on his words like sword tips, but none plunged into Tommy’s heart to evoke fear and desperation.

“Of course.” Tommy said neutrally and folded his hands in front of him. The crown burned heavy on his head and he silently wished his father would go ahead and just do what he needed him to do.

“And you have no remorse for the slander you’ve put against your own family?” The Emperor stood to his feet and those icy blue eyes so much like his own bore into Tommy’s head. Yet still, no fear accompanied the piercing stare.

“Why should I? The way I see it, this is hardly my family anymore.” Tommy chuckled and the words struck a mark. “Careful Phil, this is hardly my worst.” Tommy thought gleefully.

“How can you say that?!” The Emperor burst out the words and Tommy couldn’t help but flinch just a little. “You dare to say the people who have cared and loved you for years are not your family?” 

“If this is love then I do not wish it upon anyone!” Tommy snapped out with a bearing of his teeth and a step forward. The Emperor fell silent and Tommy saw his window to finish off his plan. “I am exhausted from day to night and none of you have cared to even look at it! None of you have cared to care at all for anything!”

The Emperor stepped back and Tommy set his feet even as the rant of his pain and suffering finally let loose. 

“You cut me with your words and sharpened looks. You watch me bleed out in silence in hopes it will make me crawl back to the very arms that have abandoned and split me open time and time again!” He targeted Wilbur first. Wilbur who had made him dependent on him then left him in the cold night with no one but Technoblade to console his childish pain. “I am bleeding now but by my own inflicted wounds. I play your games and dance around your words but it’s futile because your only goal is to harm and I can’t escape your deadly aim.” Tommy hissed at the one he’d loved so much. The one who left him first. Then he turned to the next person in his path of chaos.

“I needed you to help and guide me, I needed you close and you abandoned me as well. Instead of coming back to do it yourself when you realized I did need you, you sent a stupid guard who couldn’t care less how many times I break down and scream at my walls!” The prince drew a breath before growling with all the ugly rage in his shattered heart. “Your sword will forever be more important than family so I take my own and cut you out of mine before you cut me instead.”

“That’s enough Theseus!” Emperor Philza clanged his walking stick into the ground and Tommy faced the man he once admired with everything he had.

“I’ve had enough! I will speak now! This is my turn to finally be free of your venomous ideals!” Tommy shouted back and balled his fists. He snarled and pointed to His Imperial Highness accusingly.

“Don’t you ever think you are not responsible for my entire downfall.” Tommy said. “Every ink mark put to paper and duty piled into the night you were the reason! You wallowed in your grief for so long you didn’t even bother trying to climb out of it to see how your own children were doing! You once told me Mother would be ashamed, well how would she feel knowing you left YOUR youngest SON to crumble under the weight of it all only to later favor a peasant!” 

“Ranboo is-” Emperor Philza rushed to defend the boy to the left and Tommy stole the ammunition. 

“There you go defending him again! Over your own children! It is not my fault I am heartless when all the love I had was thrown away! All the work and dedication I have put into this kingdom and throne and stupid crown is for nothing!” He shouted and panted as he saw tears fill the blue eyes of the Emperor. Wilbur looked like he might run forward but Technoblade was ready to stop him with an arm. 

“I am done…” Tommy huffed “Being the only one trying to keep everything fine. I am done and tired of pretending I don’t wish I had died with Mother. I am not fine, I am not okay, and I will not be subjected to your neglectful abuse anymore.” He reached for the crown on his head and looked to Ranboo.

“Theseus-” Wilbur started to say but the words died out as Tommy spoke once again to the peasant turned royalty.

“Ranboo…I hope you have better fortune with this family than I have.” Tommy smiled and tears burned his eyes. One fell as he glared at the circlet of silver and blue before he locked eyes with his father. The Emperor of the Antarctic Empire.

“Theseus what are you doing?” The Emperor asked and Tommy grinned.

“I renounce you.” He said and tossed the crown forward where it clattered on the carpet running up to the thrones and slid still as Tommy backed away with his arms outstretched.

Silence ensued before someone who Tommy least expected to break it did.

“Theseus wait!” Tubbo darted from behind Ranboo and Ranboo followed just behind. The boy, once Tommy’s best friend, nearly knocked him over with a rib crushing hug and tears falling onto the suit that still clung to Tommy’s skin. 

“Good luck out there.” Ranboo said and outstretched a hand to shake but Tommy smiled. Now, unburdened by the responsibility of status and reputation, he saw his savior instead of just a peasant boy coming to steal his place. So, he hugged him instead.

“And to you.” Tommy smiled and patted Ranboo’s shoulder before looking back to see Wilbur struggling against Technoblade with a hand clamped over his mouth.

“Let me go! Let me get him back, you bastard!” Wilbur cried out. “Theseus please!” Wilbur pleaded and Tommy stayed still. His eyes cleared and he saw everything once again. 

Wilbur was as broken as he was, if not more so, and something ugly and twisted was keeping him together more than anything. Wilbur didn’t mean to hurt Tommy, but he did. Perhaps more than anyone had.

“I’ll see you guys later.” Tommy said to Tubbo and Ranboo. “And the name’s Tommy, not Theseus.” He said the second part loud enough for Philza to hear and then he left with the echo of destruction bouncing off the walls behind him.

“Theseus-” Philza was the last to call out for him before the doors shut behind him.

“So…Tommy?” Dream’s voice stopped the former prince dead in his effort to leave. He had changed into much more comfortable clothes fit for traveling and was busy packing a small satchel that could carry a money pouch, ink and quills, and a book or two. He wore riding boots as his intention was to buy a steed from the stables in the city and ride it to his next destination.

“Why are you here?” Tommy said flatly and tightened the strings on his satchel before swinging it onto his shoulders and tying the excess to his belt.

“Originally to apologize, but now I’m curious as to where you plan to go now with a target on your back?” Dream said cooly and Tommy could hear the smile in his words.

“Why should you care? We’re through, Dream.” Tommy hissed and bit his tongue. Out of all the people that had hurt him over the years and by how much, Dream’s was the worst.

“I don’t want to be through, Thes- I mean Tommy. I want us to be brothers again.” Dream stepped forward on his last words and Tommy clamped his eyes shut. It still hurt.

“Please, don’t call me that if you’re truly sorry.” Tommy pleaded and stood straight to make sure the satchel stayed secure.

“Tommy please, let me make it up to you!” Dream begged and it made the former Prince’s heart coil.

“You can’t take back what you hid from me, Dream. You can’t undo that betrayal.” Tommy faced his companion and met green eyes unshielded by the mask of a smile.

“I know and that’s why I’m sorry! I should’ve told you at the start and I shouldn’t have followed you to your garden. That was yours and I took it from you.” Dream grasped Tommy’s shoulders and gripped his biceps in an effort to reach Tommy’s iced heart.

Silence stretched out like a canyon and Tommy bit back tears and lowered his eyes from the familiar green of Dream’s. There was a sigh and a shaking breath.

“Tommy, I want you to come back to Esempi with me.” Dream said.

“What?” Tommy’s eyes snapped back to Dream’s. It was like a magnet. Everything slowed and the world became a shade of green. A green akin to home and smooth grass instead of icy snow and cold shoulders.

“I want you to come back home with me, as my brother.” Dream repeated with more force and his eyes lit with a promise of love and happiness.

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Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | ____ | Part 5 | (Finale)

[barbiegirldream]

didn't theseus rape helen?

short answer No. long answer well.

the ancient greeks had a sense of honor a sense of codes around their women that are not so easily understood by us. you have to fathom women did not exist as independent agents they just did not.

so when they theseus raped helen they mean he kidnapped her. and it was her father's τιμή (honor) that was being violated as his property (daughter) was stolen. nothing in any myth suggests he ever touched her in such a way. he just simply placed her with his mother for safe keeping. and the most popular telling of the myth is theseus insane from the loss of his second wife and first son wanted a daughter of zeus as his bride kidnapped helen, went to the underworld with his friend to kidnap persophone and spent a couple decades stuck down there. this version of the myth comes from Hellanicus of Lesbos.

but other Athenian myths suggest theseus was given helen by her father for safe keeping because theseus was not a man of war more diplomacy but he would defend to his last breath someone in his charge. or he found the young girl being kidnapped and kept her for safe keeping but was then soon again in hell and could not tell anyone that he had put helen away for safe keeping and then helen's brothers retrieve her and kidnap theseus's mother.

and that again is where we see the difference between a non Athenian perspective on Theseus vs an Athenian perspective on Theseus. As well as the way some people write him historically and some write him as a man of myth. Hellanicus was a historian but not Athenian and Everyone hated the Athenian's so slandering their king as honorless well. And the Athenian versions of Theseus write him less as a man more as a collection of ideals they wanted Athens to represent.

so um yeah tl;dr guess it depends on who you read

[i-hate-theseus]

[that-really-guilts-my-gears]

LISTEN. Theseus has a top ten list of homophobic moments the first being trying to hallow out Eros and use their body to continue living

ITS NOT THEIR DAMN FAULT THEY GOT CAUGHT IN A DUMB LITTLE RITUAL STAGED BY DESPERATE ANGELS TRYING TO CLAW THEIR WAY TO GOD, THEY JUST GOTTA DI WHAT THEY CAN TO LIVE