#theres dozens of us and we all have the same story of going thru some kind of mourning period before admitting we love this lil shit

[jennilah]

one of my fav things in this fandom is watching new people roll in like "fuck, i really wanted to hate hoffman but.." and every single other hoffman enjoyer is like "OUR BASTARD DOES IT AGAIN!! 🎉"

[sol1056]

git along little nonnies

Got a whole bunch of you on related themes, so I’m just gonna do this all at once: a bunch of questions about DW, spinoffs, merchandise, business, management, support (and protest) and whatnot. In no particular order.

Ok there are petitions and peaceful boycotts directed at DW but problem is they aren’t addressing the EPs and things they, not DW, did so how are we to sign them, how to handle this when this could at best confuse the situation and not give any results and at worst, make matters even worse about what we want regarding DW addressing things? 

Here’s what companies care about: money. Everything else is gravy.

If you want a corporation to pay attention to your complaints, then you need to figure out their sources of income, and find a way to threaten that. If the social reprobation is high enough, damage to the brand can translate into lost sales, but the tempest required to make that happen must be much, much larger than anything I’ve seen the fandom manage. 

I’ve been saying this all along: voices are far more powerful than signatures. If twenty thousand people wrote or called in, and said what they liked vs what upset them, that would have a far greater impact. Certainly a lot more than a list of names with no emotion beyond a request that may not even be something DW can, or would, fulfill.  

And don’t even get me started on mailing stuff in. Cute, but hardly actionable.  

Do you know what kind of contracts DW sign, as in, are they obligated to air all seasons, can they choose not to air them, do the companies they work with (netflix, wep) have a say or more say than them? Who gets the last word? Is airing all seasons squarely on DW or more? 

As I’m not a corporate lawyer employed by any of the signatories, I can’t tell you what the contract stipulated. What I can tell you is that a contract of the magnitude of the DW-WEP-Netflix agreement probably had a dissertation worth of riders covering the different types of possible defaults or breaches, and the penalties for each. Additionally, the contract also likely covered what constituted ‘satisfactory delivery’ of the product. 

To take it down to a really simple level: you place an order at a restaurant. You expect to get it, eat it, and pay for it. You don’t expect to be told, “hey, we burnt your steak and we’re out of butter for your sweet potatoes, so have some green beans instead,” and then be told you still owe the full amount, anyway. 

Netflix wouldn’t settle for ordering (and paying for) something never delivered, anymore than you would. Sure, any corporation worth their over-inflated stock options would try --- but that’s the point of contracts, to make sure they can’t. 

Netflix paid, DW delivers, end of story.  

 ...do you think ppl in charge didn't think EPs would tell they made changes and also thought they'd manage to bury it? And then they got in trouble and DW is going thru changes for that reason? -waves at DW goings on and silence.

I got lost in all the pronouns, there. Who’s the first ‘they,’ the EPs or DW execs? Is the second ‘they’ referring to the same as the first? So... I’m not really sure what you’re positing, but if the ‘DW is going through changes’ is implying DW’s got a shakeup and/or is promoting its head-of-TV to president and that’s somehow connected to two newbie EPs screwing up?

I’d say the chances are so infinitesimal as to be nearly in the negative. (I should also note, the press release listed successful shows Cohn oversaw, yet oddly did not include VLD.) DW is not a three-person start up; it has stakeholders and a board and a C-suite to satisfy. Cohn got that promotion ‘cause she’s got a track record going back thirty years, most recently growing DW’s TV division from 8 to 800 in five years. 

Most corporations tend to announce their new CEO or President like someone woke up that morning and went, hey, I’ve got a great idea. Truth is, it’s usually in the works for at least a year, sometimes several years, or more. The only thing that has me side-eyeing the announcement is the silence around who’ll fill Cohn’s previous position. 

But that’s again less to do with a single series, and more to do with what it says about DW as a whole, business-wise. 

What meaningful changes could the new president Margie Cohn make that would be different than the last one? Also I'm sorry if your getting a bunch of Voltron/DW questions lately, you just seem to be the most knowledgeable person on this platform.

I’d be willing to bet I’m far from the most knowledgeable person; I’m just someone not bound by an NDA, and curious enough to do a bit of digging and jaded enough to talk about (most) of what I find. 

A president can have immense impact on a company’s direction; that’s kinda why they exist, to set that high-level strategy. That said, Cohn will be bound by all contracts signed by her predecessor. The TV side (barring someone filling the shoes she left) will probably continue as it was. The theatrical side (which she’s taking over) will be where we’ll probably see any major changes. 

And even those aren’t likely to be on films currently in production. Hell, given theatrical animation can take up to five years, I’m not sure that’d show much change, either. Look instead to changes in investors, new deals, and new properties. 

What do you think DW will do about a sequel if there’s really no bible? Theres tons of plot holes & abandoned storylines. VLD will never feel satisfying, and fans already argued with different interpretations based on conflicting content, without a nice satisfying explanation...

I know this is the first of a three-part ask, but I’m skipping the rest because the only answer possible is to your very first question: the bible doesn’t matter. 

Any new series --- even a continuation --- will construct its own bible. Same as we’d do in fandom: they’ll patch together what they can, fill in blanks as they need, and gloss the rest, or retcon it outright. Even if there were a bible, diligently followed, that doesn’t mean the next series is automatically beholden to it. Some franchises would care (ie Star Wars) while others might let a reboot mess with the details (ie Star Trek). 

For every continuation, there’s gradations in between, since otherwise what’s the interest for creative minds, if you’re obligated to follow someone else’s script exactly? So, no. The absence of a story bible doesn’t preclude the next iteration making its own, as it needs, to whatever extent it requires. 

I was wandering around the hot topic online store, and i noticed a shirt that raised a few flags and questions. it's the 'Voltron Location' shirt. it has all the paladins in different places in a star globe chart thing? with what might possibly be planet designations. plus Lance is the only one not inside his blue colored bubble. Keith is in Red and Shiro in Black again. it's interesting at least.

Nearly all the shirts use the same base images, just changed up. It feels a little like someone handed a designer a half-dozen images with a request for forty-something designs --- and now HT is just throwing them all at the wall to see what sticks (or sells). 

HT’s stuff has been pretty consistent, from what I’ve heard: Shiro is Black, Keith is Red, etc. Considering the t-shirts seem to be selling out regularly (along with various other sidelines), I’d say someone is savvy as to the fact that the segment of fandom spending the most money is also the segment that prefers the S1/S2 lineup. 

If that’s what customers want, it’s smart business for DW to provide.

(Yes, that applies on more than one level.)

There are VLD comic books being released by LionForge Comics, are those considered canon? Do LM and JDS have any involvement? They take place before Season 7and8 but I don't wanna support the original EPs.

Every fandom has its own stand on what counts as canon. Sometimes (especially with adaptations) you’ll find fandoms being explicit as to whether they’re book or movie (ie HP and LotR). I expect the same will eventually shake out in VLD’s fandom, too. 

From everything I’ve heard, Hedrick and Iverson were handed the comics and ran with it. I suppose that would argue for seeing the comics as canon, being they were written by people also writing the main series... but from what I can tell, it’s one-way. The show affected the comics, but nothing in the comics ever affected the series.

That said, your purchases have nothing to do with the original EPs. All you’re doing is telling DW you like the VLD-iteration of Voltron.

What are your thoughts on the final vld poster? I feel like it’s missing the end. Allura is randomly staring back into nothing.

It’s a clever idea to do a poster for each season, but it’s not something I’ve ever paid any attention to, really. If it were drawn by the head writer? That might mean the artist had more insight than, say, a storyboarder or animator. But even then... cool picture, still not-canon. I’m only interested in canon.

Do you think that Voltron was rushed purposely by the EP's. [...] Wouldn't this effect the quality of, well, everything? I feel as if they got frustrated with the show at that point and just wanted out.

Dude. There are times I sit here and just stare into space, bewildered yet again not just at the thought of 39 episodes released in one year --- but doing that with 26 as a last-minute cut-and-paste rearrangement. All I can tell you is that what I’ve seen from animation people and aficionados (and friends) is that three full seasons in one calendar year is just bonkers. 

If DW hadn’t wanted the schedule that packed, the EPs aren’t the ones getting the say. That’s a DW-Netflix thing. I really wonder whether DW used VLD as a guinea pig. TH went a year between S1 and S2, and the numbers slumped badly. Perhaps DW wanted to know if more episodes, more often, would keep fan interest high? DW has experienced execs, but they’re all from broadcast; how you arrange and time things in the brave new world of binge-watching is a completely different beast. 

So, it’s possible it was less of a rush job to get the show out, and more from a desire to see what'd happen to release so much, so close together. 

I still think it’s a bonkers schedule, though.

"Relaunch the whole property" sounds like they won't continue expanding the whole vld universe and they'll make a new itineration. Though if they do a spin-off it'd likely be on the vld universe surrounding the new "Legendary Defenders" from the epilogue. And "especially given the response" do you think after the negative response from s8, wouldn't be better for WEP to not keep working with Dreamworks? Or maybe they need to clean their brand from vld fiasco? What can you say about all of this?

I can say you might try re-reading, because boy is that a radical interpretation of the text. Remember, Jeremy was speaking before S8, and all indication is that he was caught off-guard as much as the fans. Re-read in light of Jeremy (at the time) appearing to expect S8 to be a crowd-pleaser.   

...I'm becoming more confident in my belief that DW has something planned for Voltron. I mean they are still heavily promoting the show, LionForge is still publishing Voltron comics, and merchandise is still being made. These don't seem like the actions of a company trying to get people to forget a show. 

You’re not wrong. Up to the last few days of 2018, DW gave every indication they wanted S8 quietly buried. Nothing they’ve done since has fit that pattern --- including the anomaly of failing to announce their 2019 series. Something is going on, that’s for certain. 

Did DW really just throw the VAs to the wolves [for] three days? and there's still no official stance? One panel was enough. They had [the VAs] take the heat for them? But thankfully fans felt sorry for them? Which could also have been the goal, shut the fans up [with] the VAs of the characters who got the worst treatment and who love their characters ... Yes DW this really makes me trust you /sarcasm/

I don’t think that was the original plan. Let’s pretend DW released its 2019 schedule via press release in the first few days of January, and among those was an announcement of a VLD sequel or spinoff, coming late 2019. 

People wouldn’t be fussing over putting the VAs through three panels. They’d be complaining we didn’t get the biggest room for every panel. The majority of the fandom doesn’t trust the EPs, and is wary of DW --- really, the only ones who retain any goodwill, at this point, are the VAs. So who better than to assure a nervous fandom about the goodness of the second iteration than the VAs whose characters were most shafted by the first iteration?

What breaks this is that immediately after S8 dropped, Josh and Kimberly went silent on twitter. AJ slipped into passive-aggressive snarking; Jeremy fell off the radar and usually he’s pretty interactive with his fans. Bex pretty much wiped  VLD from her stream, possibly including deleting older tweets. Neil tried to engage and made a hash of it, bless his heart. 

Josh and Kimberly are consummate professionals who reliably promote the series after every season drop, but their radio silence continued for almost two weeks. This wasn’t the first season that came saddled with controversy; if there was a time to go quiet, it was after S7. Something else was going on. 

I have strong suspicions backed by research, but if I’m right, I’d be stepping on a major legal landmine. In the interest of not getting blown up, I’ll only say that the VAs appearing for those three panels (and their low-key and mostly diplomatic hedging around VLD’s conclusion) was a good sign that all parties involved are willing to work things out.   

[DW was] quick to handle the Season 7 backlash and have stayed mum on what is arguably a much worse reaction to the 8th and final season.

and

I believe the S8 of voltron we got was not the original ending we were supposed to get and highly edited. My question is why? What was the point of changing the original ending? [The] radio silence from DW and the cast is driving me nuts. I wish DW would make a statement.

DW is in an interesting place. Its TV side is barely five years old, but dominated by execs with long-time broadcast experience, predating vibrant interactivity afforded by platforms like twitter, tumblr, or instagram. DW’s background as a theatrical company also seems to incline it away from any ongoing engagement with the audience. It releases a movie and by the time that hits theaters, DW is onto the next thing. 

It’s a strong contrast with production studios like Zagtoon (Miraculous), who penned an open letter to their fandom about production delays. Or little studios like Wonderstorm (The Dragon Prince) whose deft use of twitter and tumblr sets their brand apart. Or Federator (Castlevania), with their witty marketing campaigns and willingness to engage with fans. Even Disney was willing to be open about its errors with Tiana, and to make clear how it was striving to do better --- so there’s no excuse that only small studios do such outreach.

My guess is that DW's core leadership is from the school of business in which admitting a mistake is tantamount to ritual suicide. Don’t blink first, or maybe the rule is never let them see you sweat, but whatever it is, DW is turning into a textbook case of how silence can damage a brand. 

Companies have multiple avenues to reach customers directly, now. Our modern technologies are a two-way street, and good companies leverage that to create not passive fandoms but active communities. It takes work, careful planning, and some level of transparency --- something old-school execs find highly uncomfortable, to be honest --- but in this day and age, those are crucial building-blocks to achieving any kind of audience loyalty.

DW isn’t going to render itself obsolete (at least not overnight), but it's on a track to end up as the studio whose work audiences only watch when there’s nothing better being offered. Unfortunately for DW, there’s a hell of a lot of other studios out there, and they're all offering something better. 

[missjackil]

The Not-So-Bitter Sam Girl

Let me first establish that I love Sam Winchester with everything in me. I eat, sleep, drink,and dream Sam Winchester. Often times, like many Sam girls, I feel like he is treated unfairly, and that makes me bitter, but I read a lot of the meta from other Sam girls, but I don’t agree with a lot of what you all are bitter about. Let me also say, that I love Dean too. The brother’s relationship is the only reason I am addicted to this show. I couldn't care less about the monsters and most side characters to be honest, but I definitely favor Sam. I have only been watching the show, via Netflix, for just under a year, but I am a CHRONIC re-watcher. There isn’t an episode or season I havent watched at least 15 times, and some more than 40 times (yes its a sickness) the only episodes I dont watch much are Bitten and Bloodlines.  I will try to explain my view on some of the most common things I see bitter Sam girls write about, and hopefully give a new perspective. WARNING: This is indeed long, you may scroll through and read topics of interest, and feel free to send me an ask or a message about anything you would like to debate or discuss further :)

Dean gets more air time! From my point of view, I will agree this is the case, but not throughout the whole series. A prime example is the S4 episode In The Beginning, when Sam is only in the first 45 seconds of the episode. I dont consider this the show favoring Dean, but the knowledge that it was in a time when no one was sure if Jared could continue do to his mental health. He had a breakdown during the filming of Mystery Spot, and things were rocky for a while. I don’t know what was going on during the time of In The Beginning, but it’s quite possible that Jared needed time off. Granted there are no episodes were Dean is only in 45 seconds of, but they probably don’t like do episodes that the boys dont share time, after all, the show is about them both.  The Panic Room! Yes, definitely the panic room! It might be the first time I felt my bitter Sam girl come out. How DARE they lock him in a room to detox alone??? It tore my heart out! But on one hand, it was an extremely Sam heavy episode. We got to see inside his head through his hallucinations, which up till then, we’d only see glimpses. It was hard for me to piece together what exactly was going on with Sam in S4 until this episode. It was confusing. On one hand he had been his normal, cute, nerdy, sensitive self, but hiding his baddass, sexy, dark side. Up till then i thought he just didn’t want Dean to be angry with him for what he was doing, but then I realized, he was genuinely addicted to the demon blood, and didn’t want Dean to know because he’d want him (make him) stop, and he also feared Dean would hate him like a monster. He felt like he disappointed everyone he loved, even himself, and coming off felt like torture. (hence the Alistair hallucination) So story wise, we needed for him to be alone this time so WE the viewers would see what all he felt, which he may not have, if Dean sat with him to comfort him. And having dealt with addicted people personally, I know that sometimes, an addict will use their addiction for the sole purpose of having someone sit and suffer with them, which sometimes makes the addiction worse. However, the second time Sam was left to suffer alone in the panic room was 100% uncalled for (S5 My Bloody Valentine) If the writers wanted to show how bad Sam’s problem was affecting Dean, which Im sure it was... he could have prayed that prayer while holding Sam through the detox, and it would have been 1000 times more powerful. So this one, I am bitter as well.  Soulless Sam wasn’t that bad!! No, he wasn’t. I actually really enjoyed him! He was definitely hornier than our normal Sam, less inhibited,  snarkier, funnier, but still, not quite Sam. Why would Dean be so freaked out? Well, we’ll overlook Sam allowing him to be turned by the vamps, because Dean felt creeped out before then. So consider the fact that dozens of years, Sam and Dean were glued to each others hips for the most part. Especially when John left them alone as children, and since Sam was back from Stanford, and now, he was back from Hell, no one knew how, and not his normal self at all. Dean, being Sam’s soulmate, knew something was wrong, and at first was scared that maybe it was still Lucifer in Sam’s vessel. That to me, sounds like it could be scary. Think just for a moment, if the person you love the most, that you thought was dead, is suddenly back but not anything like they used to be. This would be terrible, especially if you thought there was a good chance they were actually Satan wearing their body.  Once Dean knew it was actually Sam, but without a soul, he could have lightened up a bit. Yes, I think so too, BUT Sam was still not anything like what Dean loved about his brother. Sam didnt love him back, didnt even care about him, he was Sam otherwise, but i dont blame Dean for wanting to get Sam’s soul back, especially with the knowledge that he could be fine, so long as he doesn’t regain the memories. And even if he did, there’s a good chance he could fix him.  Dean did act irrationally, wont argue, but we know they are both irrationally co dependent on each other, and if the tables were turned, Sam would have done something equally irrational to get Dean back. (As we see in About a Boy when Sam wasnt in favor of Dean being 14 so that the Mark was gone. He’d be willing to take Dean back, Mark included, so long as Dean was the Dean he knew and loved today) The narrative is heavily in Dean’s Favor! No, I dont think so. Occasionally yes, but for the most part no. When bitter Sam girls see Dean scolding or berating Sam for being wrong about something, most of the time Sam isn’t wrong about the thing. We see it, and most people see it, so the narrative makes Dean look like a douche. Yes, there are Dean girls that throw Sam hate all the time, but they’re not the majority. They’re just loud on Tumblr. Honestly, in real life, Dean girls, just like Dean’s looks, or personality better than Sam’s and thats simply taste. Tall, long haired, sweet, intelligent, badass, nerds arent everyone’s favorite flavor (dont know how that’s possible but....) thats fine, but ive yet to come across a real life Sam hater.  Theres some on tumblr and occasionally some might give Jared grief at a conference, but again, thats not the majority. And I see bitter Sam girls also throw the same hate Dean’s way too. But anyway, getting off point. Dean has always been “its not what you do but who you are” and Sam has always been “its not who you are but what you do” from early on. And we all know Sam’s view is better. Sam is always willing to talk, and give people/monsters a chance to choose good. Dean has only recently agreed to go that route too, but will still think “monster” first and then bend Sam’s direction. killing Sam’s friend Amy in S7 just because she was a monster, was a huge douche move on Dean’s part and everyone thought so Im sure. It was also the last time Dean killed someone for just that reason. Sam’s view of situations like that have always been to give the monster the benefit of the doubt if they wanted to be good, from the beginning, so that narrative has always been in Sam’s favor.  Dean was mad that Sam’s happy memories didn’t include him!! Not true. Dean may have been disappointed that Sam’s happy Thanksgiving memory was at someone elses house, but after that, Sam’s best memories were Deans worst. That’s what upset him. Not that Dean wasnt in them, but they were terrible times for him. When Sam was alone in Flagstaff with his dog, Dean was home worried sick that Sam was dead because he ran off while he was watching him. “And when Dad got home....” Dean probably got his ass beat. When Sam went off to Stanford, Dean says it was one of the worst nights of his life. Zachariah was manipulating their memories so it could appear they were happier without each other. Sam didnt get to see the part when he and Dean shot off the fireworks, only the part of Dean’s life when he was happy with Mom. I am sure that if they got to explore more of their heaven, they would have found plenty of memories that were just those two.  The writers feminize Sam and make him the Damsel in Distress!! Lord, I have seen HUGE meta on this and I disagree with so much. The male/female formula when there are two protagonists is a common formula to use. This is true, but it is not the only formula to use and its not always Sam that is feminized. Other formulas are the classic comedic/tragic, the big one/the small one, the smart one/the dumb one, light/dark, good cop/ bad cop and so on. The brother have fallen into all these formulas at different times. Sam has a few feminine qualities, it’s true, he cries sometimes and he’s generally nicer than Dean, he has long hair, compassionate and empathetic, he isnt as “butch” as Dean and is conscious of his diet. Dean also has feminine qualities, he cooks, cleans, and irons their clothes. He is very much a nurturer, not only to Sam but to Kevin, Garth and Charlie as well. Dean is much more physical than Sam is. Dean is usually the one initiating the bro hugs, and its not likely that the “Dean is bisexual” thing, would be a thing, if he initiated as many manhugs as Sam has. He cries more than Sam does, he admitted to have enjoyed wearing women’s underwear, loves chick flicks, and said “All women lie about their age” and Sam said “Wait, you told our waitress you’re 29″ and Dean said “Yes”. Often times Sam and Dean are paralleled with married couples, but not always, sometimes its siblings, sometimes best friends, sometimes Rocky and Bullwinkle LOL... but not always male/female, in fact, in the parallel of John and Mary Winchester, Sam is John and Dean is mom. Sam was named after their grandfather, and Dean after their grandmother.

Also, Sam is NOT a Damsel in Distress! My friend went through S1 thru 11 and counted how many times each saved the other, and Dean only beats Sam by 3 saves. Ahead by 3 out of 240 (some episodes have more than one salvation scene, some have none or they save each other) episodes is well within the margin of error and it means neither one is a damsel in distress. HOWEVER Tumblr makes Sam overly feminine! But that’s a whole other rant.  Season 8 was a horror fest of Sam hate! Omg is so was NOT! i felt there was more love from Dean towards Sam than any season before it. This season was an emotional roller coaster between the boys, its by far one of my favorite seasons (5 and 11 are my other faves) but i think all the meta written about being a Carver catastrophe and trying to explain WHY it wasnt OOC for Sam to not look for Dean, made some of you not watch the season, or at least, not all of the season, or watched it after reading the meta and thus missed the whole point. However I will agree, like even Jared did, that Sam not looking for Dean definitely was OOC for Sam, especially only knowing what we knew in the beginning. Sam went right away to the promise the boys made not to look for each other, even though he knew Dean looked for him when he went to Hell. It was very OOC for Sam to at least try to make sure Dean was dead first, he had no idea where he was, there was no blood or body, just black goo. Take into consideration that 1) It has been said that S8 was going a different route, but the producers decided to change it, so it’s likely there was more to that story than we actually got. 2) it was the beginning of the season and neither we, nor Jared knew that Sam would later say “I lost my brother a few months back, and my world imploded and everything rained down on me, and i ran” None of us knew that before hand, and Dean was never even told. All he was really told was that Sam was alone, and didnt know what to do so he fixed up the Impala, and just drove. Took time to enjoy the good things, and get a dog and a girlfriend and a home in Texas. Will I will agree that Dean didnt have the right to berate Sam, but he had every right to be hurt and feel betrayed. Sam later turned the table and berated Dean for having Benny. Again, Sam had the right to feel hurt and betrayed, but had no right to berate him, but since they both griefed each other about how they spent the last year, Ill call them both even. This fight that was nothing less than watching a married couple fighting over each other cheating, but once Sam decides to stay with Dean, and Dean cuts ties with Benny, the boys relationship is beautiful again. I say there was so much love shown even in their fighting because we learned part of the depth in which they love each other. Not unlike a married couple.” Don’t ever let someone be more important than me” And though I know, at the end of S8 when Sam was reminded of his “failure” by Dean, Sam was ready to die, but in the middle when the trails are about to start, Dean recalls what kind of life Sam wanted, and was ready to die so Sam could have it. Watch Trial and Error, I think its a great place to see where the boy’s heads are at, at that point in the season.  Dean had no right to trick Sam into letting Gadreel possess him! Absolutely true, he had no right to do that, but Dean knew it too. He knew Sam would never agree to such a thing, and he would rather die. But Dean JUST saved his life back at the church, despite that good that would come of if it Sam finished the trials. This didnt matter to Dean anymore if he didn’t have Sam beside him. It wasn’t like Swan Song... now he KNEW what life without Sam was like and didnt want to do it again. Now he sees that Sam is moments from dying, and has an option... a bad option, but an option. He acted in sheer panic. I cant honestly say I wouldnt do that either. But immediately after, Dean had regrets and fears. Did he make the right call? Was this angel gonna take Sam over or tear him apart? Dean wrestled with this every episode till they finally got Gadreel out. He knew Gadreel taking over and killing Kevin was his own fault and whatever backlash was coming from Sam, he deserved. Now after this I fully understand Sam’s hurt 100% and I think he was even hurt that Dean chose to leave afterwards, but his words at the end of The Purge hurt me for Dean’s sake. Not “Same circumstances, I wouldnt” because of course he wouldnt do the same thing. But telling Dean theres no upside to him being alive, and how Dean tells himself that he does more good than bad, but he doesnt, and “Ill hand it you, you;re willing to do the sacrificing, as long as you’re not the one being hurt” was crushing. Dean has always been hurt in his sacrificing, it was like Sam forgot Dean sacrificing his soul for Sam to live and spending 40 years in hell. So, where I will agree Dean says some crappy things, Sam has been guilty of that too. Both have every right to feel what they feel, but that doesnt give them the right to do or say whatever they want.  Dean always gets friends and Sam doesnt! Now this I think is basically their make up, not a narrative bias. Sam learned in S1, Skin that friends are a liability and having them in their line of work, puts them in danger. Sam is kind and compassionate and the one who talks to the victims and witnesses with care so they trust him, but he doesnt try to pull them closer, to be friends, because he knows its dangerous for them, as he explained to Adam in Jump the Shark. Dean knows this too, but he needs people. He makes friends and tried to have a family outside the job... it never works out, but he still tries. I think Jody is more drawn to Sam, and probably even Rowena, it also looks like Mary is more drawn to Sam,  but Sam is still leary of being close to people. I dont think this has anything to do with the writers wanting us to think Dean is more likable, but to see that the boys need different things. Like Dean has a lot of sex, he needs physical, Sam doesn’t he needs verbal. This is why he has conversations with everyone.  Dean has more dialogue than Sam! He does, often times, I guess if its measured, Dean has probably had more onscreen lines than Sam, but I think they make up for that by giving Sam the bigger story arcs. They give Jared the harder roles to act. Dean’s arcs are almost always the same, he is either more violent, or less violent, whereas Sam has been possessed numerous times, went through addiction and withdrawal, Soullessness, fighting against himself, and acting along side his own different personas, insanity, twice, hallucinations,severe physical illness, loss of loved ones,  sexual assault, and torture, torture, and more torture. He’s been as weak as a child and yet the biggest badass on the show ever. Dont think because Dean says more that Sam doesnt impact the show just as much, if not more. If both shared the same character arcs, it would be monotonous, if Dean didnt have more dialogue than Sam, compared to Sam’s story lines, Dean would look like the antagonist. Oh trust me, I wish every episode was Sam centric, but its not, thats not how the show works, and I have accepted that.  I know I missed many more, but I tried to hit all the ones I see the most meta on. i just want all you Sam girls (Bitter or not) to know that not every Sam girl has gotten as negative of a view as many of you have. Feel free to add to this if you want to, I welcome opposing view points too :)