#theoclymenus

[doloneia]

any au with diomedes hanging out on ithaca during the events of the odyssey is already perfect but it becomes even better when you remember theoclymenus (that guy telemachus offers a ride to in book 15). does telemachus give him a tour like “alright theoclymenus, welcome to ithaca. heres my house, its currently being squatted in by 108 guys that wanna fuck my mom. also this is diomedes, your former king, legendary member of the epigoni, sacker of thebes and troy, he lives here now. hes not here to challenge my dads throne or anything though just to farm.” do they make awkward small talk. do they talk about theoclymenus’ two cousins that diomedes sacked thebes with. are they just the passing cars meme. the comedic potential here is endless

[kiddonana]

theoclymenus: hey im being hunted rn cause i killed a man so could i hop in ur ship?

telemachus:

[gingermintpepper]

I haven't read the Odyssey so I'm asking you. Are you telling me besides Athena, Apollo was the god who helped Odysseus and his family the most? Indirectly at least.

If that's true it's really a missed opportunity in EPIC.

No, no, the god who assists Odysseus the most after Athena is unquestionably Zeus.

Zeus genuinely has no problems with Odysseus and makes it very clear that he finds the man brilliant and would have already had him home and safe if he had his way, but he makes it clear that he's deferring to Poseidon who actually has the problem with Odysseus because, ultimately, the sea is Poseidon's domain and kingdom and Zeus doesn't intend to step on his brother's toes.

(Od. Book 1 trans. Robert Fitzgerald)

I'd definitely give third place to Apollo however. The big bug-bear about Apollo in the Odyssey is just that he's much less tangible than Athena or even Hermes who appears to Odysseus multiple times to help guide him/give him proclamations. His presence is everywhere though; like I've previously mentioned (and like he did with Jason) it's Apollo protecting Odysseus from Poseidon as he sails the sea after Odysseus blinds Polyphemus. It's also Apollo keeping Telemachus safe. His most vital role by far is when Odysseus returns to Ithaca in time for the challenge that will determine the next king. Not only is it a shooting contest whose first hurdle is to string a bow, the challenge itself takes place on a festival day for Apollo. Athena is there with Odysseus and Telemachus physically, but Apollo is looking after them in spirit, sending signs and signals to keep Telemachus especially safe.

(Od. Book 15, Telemachus warns about the state of Odysseus' house to Theoclymenus, a son of one of Apollo's prophets.)

There's also the fact that Odysseus makes sure to pray to Apollo before he attempts to string the bow:

(Od. Book 21. Beggar-Odysseus petitions to shoot his shot)

Likewise, before he slays the first suitor, Odysseus again prays for Apollo's guidance and gaze to guide his arrows:

(Od. Book 22. Odysseus commits the first of many (divinely-sanctioned) murders)

Also, as an additional thing, have Telemachus invoking Zeus, Athena and Apollo that he could see the suitors have their asses beat:

(Od. Book 18. Telemachus excitedly gushes to him mom about his cool new friend (Odysseus. Odysseus is the friend.)

There's a lot of minimisation of Apollo's role in the Odyssey because it isn't as bright and showy as his role was in the Iliad but hey, even there people tend to minimise how truly present Apollo is for the duration of the war when they're doing adaptations. Within Epic, the stage is already more than set for both Apollo and Athena to be there at the advent of Odysseus' revenge but none of that matters if that's not the creator's intention, y'know?

[greekmythcomix]

More Telemachus support:

In Book 16, even though he’s just sailed back from Sparta, escaped the suitors’ ambush, met his father for the first time as an adult, and seen him be supernaturally transformed into an old man, he still goes home, tells his mother to purify herself then make sacrifices in thanks, and gives his random passenger, Theoclymenus, xenia (hospitality).

That’s a good boy.

[tamaruaart]

Okay Greek Mythology fan, who do you think is the most underrated character from the Odyssey? :}

Well I have a few, but probably Telemachus and Nausikaa. For characters that are pretty important to the Odyssey, I don't see many people giving them the attention they deserve. Which makes my blood BOIL >:/

Some honorable mentions would definitely be Arete, Elpenor, Tiresias, Eurylochus, Theoclymenus, Eumaeus and especially Eurycleia.

As for Odysseus' family and the suitors individually, I also don't see much of them in media, but they're fairly minor characters so I understand.

Same goes for Polites. Disregarding EPIC I don't really hear much of him. Which also, understandable, he's a fairly minor character. (I think he's only mentioned like two times??)

[abstraka]

But Theoclymenus said, ‘Eurymachus you need not send any one with me. I have eyes, ears, and a pair of feet of my own, to say nothing of an understanding mind. I will take these out of the house with me, for I see mischief overhanging you, from which not one of you men who are insulting people and plotting ill deeds in the house of Ulysses will be able to escape.”

[classic-lit-couples-showdown]

Current Submissions

Submissions remain open until ~10pm pst tomorrow (March 3rd); submit through this form or the ask box

Those who have secured spots on the bracket (3 or more submissions);

Elizabeth Bennett & Fitzwilliam Darcy from Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen

Enjolras & Grantaire from Le Misérables by Victor Hugo

Victor Frankenstein & Henry Clerval from Frankenstein by Mary Shelly

Faustus & Mephistopheles from Dr Faustus by Christopher Marlowe

Ishmael & Queequeg from Moby-Dick by Herman Melville

Mina & Johnathan Harker from Dracula by Bram Stoker

Henry Jekyll & Gabriel Utterson from The Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde by Robert Louis Stevenson

Other possible contenders (under read more);

Offred & Moria from The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood

Celie & Shug from The Color Purple by Alice Walker

Lestat & Marius from The Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice

Gimli & Legolas from Lord of the Rings by JRR Tolkien

Samwise Gamgee & Frodo Baggins from Lord of the Rings by JRR Tolkien

Gandalf & Hobbits from the works of Tolkien

Romeo & Juliet from Romeo and Juliet by William Shakespeare

Clarissa Dalloway & Sally Seton from Mrs Dalloway by Virginia Woolf

Anne Elliot & Frederick Wentworth from Persuasion by Jane Austen

Emma Woodhouse & George Knightley from Emma by Jane Austen

Maurice & Alec from Maurice by EM Forster

Margaret & Thornton from North and South by Elizabeth Gaskell

Holden Caufield & Stradletter from The Catcher in the Rye by JD Salinger

Charlie & Patrick from The Perks of Being a Wallflower by Stephen Chbosky

Gene Forrester & Finny from A Separate Peace by John Knowles

Tom Sawyer & Huckleberry Finn from the works of Mark Twain

John Yossarian & the Chaplain from Catch-22 by Joseph Heller

Jane Eyre & Helen Burns from Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë

Lionel Verney & Adrian Windsor from The Last Man by Mary Shelly

Eugenie Danglars & Louise d'Armilly from The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas

Dante & Virgil from The Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri

Hamlet & Horatio from Hamlet by William Shakespeare

Lizzie Hexam & Eugene Wrayburn from Our Mutual Friend by Charles Dickens

Phileas Fogg & Passepartout from Around the World in 80 Days by Jules Verne

Huckleberry Finn & Jim from the works of Mark Twain

Sherlock Holmes & John Watson from Sherlock Holmes by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Lord & Lady Macbeth from Macbeth by William Shakespeare

Beatrice & Benedick from Much Ado About Nothing by William Shakespeare

Gilgamesh & Enkidu from The Epic of Gilgamesh

Heathcliff & Catherine Earnshaw from Wuthering Heights by Emily Brontë

Mr. Collins & Elizabeth Bennett from Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen

Victor Frankenstein & Adam ('the creation') from Frankenstein by Mary Shelly

Dorian Gray & Lord Henry from The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde

Rodion Raskolnikov & Mitya Razumikhin from Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoyevsky

Rosencrantz & Guildenstern from Hamlet by William Shakespeare

First Mate Starbuck & Captain Ahab from Moby-Dick by Herman Melville

Charles Bingley & Fitzwilliam Darcy from Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen

Jane Eyre & Mr. Rochester from Jane Eyre by Emily Brontë

Jean Valjean & Inspector Javert from Le Misérables by Victor Hugo

Victor Frankenstein & Robert Walton from Frankenstein by Mary Shelly

Mary Catherine Blackwood & Constance Blackwood from We Have Always Lived in the Castle by Shirley Jackson

Benvolio & Mercutio from Romeo and Juliet by William Shakespeare

Achilles & Patroclus from The Illiad

Ajax & Ajax from The Illiad

Jack & Ralph from The Lord of the Flies by William Golding

Telemachus & Theoclymenus from The Odyssey

Jo & Laurie from Little Women by Louisa May Alcott

Elinor Dashwood & Edward Farrars from Sense and Sensibility by Jane Austen

Charles Bingley & Jane Bennett from Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen

Jo, Amy, Meg, & Beth from Little Women by Louisa May Alcott

Jack Seward & Abraham van Helsing from Dracula by Bram Stoker

Henry Jekyll & Edward Hyde from The Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde by Robert Louis Stevenson

Ned Land & Conseil from 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea by Jules Verne

Earl of Montararat & Earl Tolloler from Iolanthe

Fogg, Passepartout, & Aouda from Around the World in Days by Jules Verne

Guy Montag & Professor Faber from Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury

Nick Carraway & Jay Gatsby from The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald

Napoleon & Squealer from Animal Farm by George Orwell

Antonio & Sebastian from Twelfth Night by William Shakespeare

Antonio & Sebastian from The Tempest by William Shakespeare

[littlesparklight]

There's a couple ways "godlike" is expressed in Ancient Greek epic; Dios - literally heavenly/divine but in the Iliad and Odysseus also variously gets translated as "excellent/noble/magnificent" etc Theoeikelos - quite literally "god-like" Antitheon - similar to the above Theoeides - "god-looks" if you will. "eides" is looks/countenance/"beauty" so "looking like a god" in terms of physical features, a bit more specific than the general ones above.

For my own amusement I used the Perseus word tool to check the various number of uses of these words (focusing on the Iliad and the Odyssey here), and for who; Dios is the most used, and used for basically anyone who is "important" enough the narrative might wish to raise them up in this way. Theoeikelos is the rarest! Used twice in the Iliad, of Achilles, and used three times (of Telemachus, Deiphobus, and Alkinoos) in the Odyssey. Antitheon is between the other two, used for a small, but not very exclusive number of people. Theoeides gets used a solid but small number of times. In both the Iliad and the Odyssey it's basically attached to one/two people in the majority of uses, however. For the Iliad this is Paris and Priam (they each make up every use aside from barely a handful, with Paris getting it three more times than Priam). In the Odyssey, the majority use is for Telemachus, and then Theoclymenus.

[wonderingprince]

Telemakhos isn't sure he likes the callous assumption that his children will not want to see him.

His mother never allowed him to doubt anything about his father---- that he loves him, that he never wanted to leave, that he's fighting to come home to them. Even as time has worn down Telemakhos' faith that his father will succeed in returning, he doesn't think he's ever before doubted that Odysseus wants to.

The stranger's careless words awaken that doubt in his heart.

He looks away, expression blank.

Throughout this journey he has tempered his hopes carefully, even when Menelaos gave him news of his father's survival, even with Athena's hand on his shoulder. But now that doubt threatens to smother the kindling of hope he had left.

But when he looks back he still smiles, good natured, and shakes his head at the Kretan's assumption. "We were only visiting in Pylos; making the most of Lord Nestor's good hospitality. I had been on an errand with his son to Sparta, now I must do as I promised and take the message onwards to Ithaka."

The question is not worth answering directly. After all, every man onboard this ship lost a father or brother or uncle to the war, when those twelve black ships failed to return. Telemakhos is only special because his father was King----- and because his father is allegedly still alive.

And yes, if their mission were not time sensitive, he would be more careful with their destination. Perhaps he would even set course for Pylos once more, and ask for Nestor's help. But with the urgency Athena had sent him, and the promise he's already made to Theoclymenus, he knows that he would rather take the risk of this stranger than face the far more likely consequences of not heading straight home.

The young captain's reaction to this yarn sounds suspiciously like a judgment, which almost makes Odysseus laugh. The story may have been false, but that's true enough. If Athena herself came to him now, he would be wondering what trick she had hidden under her helm.

He notices, of course, that no promise to help him is forthcoming. Whether he would believe it or not.

That being as it is, he hardly wants to share his intended destination, even if it means yet more setbacks. He had known the raft might not bear him as far as Ithaka. But the question is ordinary; it's the brooding he hears—or perhaps imagines—in the last comment that catches Odysseus' attention.

"Ah... Krete. No." He uncrosses his arms, holding the edge of his seat in more open body language, at odds with his guarded eyes. "Krete remembers all my sins. You're right: I did have a wife once, and we had three daughters. But the girls are all grown and married long since, and they will be happier to have a message from me than to have me in the flesh. Or their husbands will, at any rate. A father-in-law is about as welcome a guest as a fox in a coop."

If the next words come out barbed, well, he was needled first.

"And you? Did one of the noble sons of Pylos bid you and your mother farewell to fight at Troy?"

[doloneia]

theoclymenus would get into an unmarked white van if they promised him candy i think

[simplepotatofarmer]

What would Michael's codename be if he joined the Syndicate? I heard you're fond of the concept and want your thoughts on that

ahhh, i've thought about this a bit! i'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to greek mythology and stories, honestly, because i was always the 'egypt kid' but i have a few ideas!

- coeus: greek titan of inquisitive minds. i feel like this is the most fitting of all my options because like. that's what c!michael represents to me. someone who is searching for answers, who has questions and wants to know the truth.

- hermes: my second choice because of the connection to messages and the fact that c!michael is broadcasting his thoughts, his message about serenity across the server. plus i really enjoy the imagery of hermes combined with michael's aesthetic.

- any of the seers: i'm not too familiar here but i'm thinking someone like theoclymenus or calchas or maybe even asbolus

[theodysseyofhomer]

i forgot that telemachus does give a brief account of this to penelope in book 17, but theoclymenus interrupts to prophesy that odysseus has in fact returned. and presumably penelope's reaction is/would be understated caution, as that is her m.o. however, i simply think that she deserves to smack menelaus a bit

after the odyssey do you think telemakhos gives his parents the sparknotes version of his trip to sparta. the part where menelaos was like "as of a year ago your dad was alive and stranded somewhere. the god proteus told me so. in egypt." and penelope's like. hmm. he did not think, at any point during that year, to send a messenger? menelaos? hey, menelaos?

[finelythreadedsky]

odyssey 20/24 down. the closing omen is such incredible imagery. i had to pick up a translation to check wait a minute, what’s going on here, only to see that no, it’s exactly what i thought was happening, i’m not misreading anything. the food defiled by blood, the walls dripping with blood, halls full of ghosts, men laughing with mouths not their own, and the absolute inability of the reader to tell whether this is all real or whether theoclymenus is the only one who sees this as a sort of prophetic vision of the future. we know athena sets the suitors wits astray so they wouldn’t see it even if it was real but we get nothing but silence about whether telemachus and odysseus can also see this vision of horror that theoclymenus clearly does see. is it just in his head? but it’s introduced as if fact before he starts speaking. anyway then theoclymenus does what we the audience have been begging for someone to do for hundreds and hundreds of lines now: he gets up and leaves. nope, none of this house that drips blood for me, thank you very much, even if you are a prince. goodbye sir.

and then of course i am always thinking about pandareus’s daughters. i think the idea is that he had at least three daughters, the one penelope mentions as the nightingale in book 19 and the two she talks about in book 20. and neither of those stories she alludes to really bears that much resemblance to The Version that sophocles and ovid end up with. but when it was the nightingale she was alone and now here there are two of them and they are sisters and penelope is thinking about having a sister even when one does not have anything else left of a family.

[celoica]

first line game

Rules: List the first lines of your last 20 stories (if you have less than 20, just list them all!). See if there are any patterns. Choose your favorite opening line. Then tag some of your favorite authors!

they know god (but i know you) -- “Filthy and covered in grime, nails a ruined mess from scraping his way through wood and then earth; he could taste the grit of graveyard in his teeth.”

distance -- “Billy had been finding God inside boys’ mouths long before Steve Harrington.”

salted -- “It was all Nancy Drew’s fault—or whatever her fucking name was.”

bellyache -- ““So,” Steve said, running his thumb over the edge of his glass. Billy gave him a sharp look, eyebrows raised. “Is it you just don’t like it? Or, like, do you think you’re someone’s bitch if you do it?””

somewhere only we know -- ““Since when do you like anything?” Steve asked, stepping out of the truck and shooting Hopper a pointed look. Hopper grumbled, climbing out and setting his hat on his head.”

alibi -- “If someone had told him months ago that he would end up in Billy Hargrove’s bedroom, Steve wouldn’t have believed them, much less the way he got there.”

a prayer for which no words exist -- “In a small town like Hawkins, everyone knew everyone—and everyone knew everyone else’s business.”

paris syndrome -- ““I’ve never been in love before this,” Billy admitted.”

finders keepers -- “The heavy looks, the biting of lips, the hot press of skin on the court—Steve knew what it was.”

the wild hunt -- “If Nancy knew what he was doing with her krachai dum, she would probably kill him—and then bring him back from the dead to take his balls.”

restraint -- “The kid didn’t look fazed.”

hunger -- “It was gut-wrenching and soul-crushing all at once.”

tagging: @brawlite @hoppnhorn @lazybakerart @lymricks @catharrington @worn-out-theoclymenus i actually follow like fifty people bc i don’t know how to find new people to follow so if anyone wants to do this please feel free!

[greekmythcomix]

List continues:

- Missed out all mention of famous women in the Underworld!!!

- Slight changes to Eumaeus’ own story (understandable for how is telling the story?)

[I can’t remember what I meant here, will have to go back and check. Essentially, misses out that Eumaeus was a young Prince taken as hostage by a nursemaid running away with a pirate, then she died and he was sold into slavery. Why cut this?]

- Keeps in Theoclymenus, the random guest on Telemachus’ ship ride home! Despite cutting out so much else?

- He’s skipped the bits where Odysseus invents an entire backstory, and then tests Eumaeus and tells a funny story about Odysseus getting another man’s cloak at night at Troy

- “some of the handmaidens were enjoying very special relationships with the suitors”. Arguably, this is poorly worded - enslaved women cannot give consent to sexual relationships when they are the property of the suitors’ hosts.

I’ve been making infographics showing the differences between EPIC the Musical and its source material, The Odyssey.

I did not expect to need to do the same thing for Stephen Fry’s ‘Odyssey’.

[humble-althemist]

women-seem-wicked ➡️ ✨worn-out-theoclymenus✨

which means finally my tumblr and ao3 handles can actually match! what fun!