#odysseyblogging

[finelythreadedsky]

i've talked before about athena's habit in the odyssey of finishing a conversation with a mortal and then turning into a bird and flying away, but i somehow didn't pick up that the first time she does it, in book 1, she's indoors

[finelythreadedsky]

#this is WHY she's his favorite#the homeric dynamic between athena and zeus is so fascinating#she's just like him! and just like him she's going to try to overthrow her father with the help of his wife because of course#it's just that she's a girl so she can come into adulthood without displacing her father#in the way that a man or a male god can only come into adulthood by displacing his father like zeus did to kronos and kronos to ouranos#(and hector to priam and odysseus to laertes and achilles to peleus-- being/becoming a man means making ones father irrelevant)#so athena does exactly what zeus did and would do#but since its not ultimately a real threat (since shes not a son) zeus can just enjoy how much like him she is#anyway odyssey 24 is SUPER important to me for this reason#its such a clear demonstration of how telemachus cannot fully access manhood and adulthood while living in his father's shadow#and how odysseus' manhood and success eclipse and erase laertes and reduce him to less than a man#and in the same moment you have athena coming of age under her father's loving eye#because that tension is between fathers and sons not fathers and daughters#so zeus can be proud of athena coming into her own and manipulating her mortals and resolving her narrative#the odyssey is the plan of athena in the same way that the iliad is the plan of zeus

It’s odd how Athena is Zeus’s favorite but she doesn’t seem to like him back, not only did she participate in Hera’s coup against him but even in the Iliad she was upset with him.

[apollon-emos]

what book of the odyssey is this from? https://www.tumblr.com/apollon-emos/738202059067834368/wait-you-know-whats-fucked-up-this-this

Opening of Book 16!

[goosemixtapes]

in middle school i had the weirdest most intense grudge against odysseus (like. famous odysseus of odyssey fame) because for two or three years in a row the school forced us to read a modernized section of JUST the cyclops part in the odyssey so all i ever saw was him committing acts of hubris and letting his men die and i was genuinely angry that this fictional man thought he was such hot shit when any goddamn fucking fool could have told you not to mess with the cyclopes. and when i say “in middle school” i mean up until like a couple months ago when i read the iliad and now he’s my secondary emotional support classical man

[gaydelgard]

the story of this dlc is like. even worse than the main game lmao like the cutscenes are all extremely awkward

but im like mad cause u get there and hermes (in the worlds doofiest voice) tells you you can “prove yourself” to persephone by dealing with a troublemaker or you could go talk to hekete or persephone herself and its like yeah cool. and then it only gives you ONE quest to do and its to go find the troublemaker. and then help him undermine persephone. like ??? why should i do that ???? i dont really want to do that. why should i come in here and fuck her shit up in her own home i havent even talked to her. you implied id have options with the dialogue but i guess that was all bullshit? im angry

[whatshouldwecallhomer]

i truly love your recent posts about penelope & esp. penelope & odysseus's relationship. you're thoughts are so interesting to read! makes me wanna pick up my copy and reread it (emily wilson says find the beginning and i lose my mind)

Aww thank you that's very kind of you to say! I need very little provocation to go feral over Odysseus and Penelope.

I need to read that translation! I have a copy but I haven't sat down with it yet.

I actually think about them and the concept of homophresyne a lot! Like the fact that Odysseus' speech to Nausicaa doesn't say that homophresyne is a prerequisite for a good marriage, just that it's the best possible blessing within a marriage. And I think about the interpretation of Penelope as the exemplar of the faithful wife and the pushback against that framing and the desire by modern readers for Penelope to be more empowered - but if she and Odysseus really do share one heart, mind, and soul, who is she really being faithful to by refusing the suitors? Is she being subservient to the memory of her husband or is she actually being true to her own self?

Like I'm not saying these texts are perfect, nor are they on-the-nose models for healthy romantic or familial relationships! But there's something about that idea of homophresyne that just really speaks to me. The idea that there's some people out there in the world that are made up of the same stuff, deep down and past all the surface trappings, and while it's not a prerequisite to a happy life or a happy marriage, one of the great joys of life is finding those people. A personal example: my partner of 3.5 years and I are super different on the surface - we grew up in really different circumstances on opposite sides of the country, we have different interests and hobbies, we've had really different careers and education, he's straight and I'm very much not (he's the first non-queer person I ever seriously dated and we almost wound up not dating because we just weren't sure it would work). But when we were getting to know each other, first becoming friends and then dating, I just kept thinking over and over again how amazing it was how much we had in common, from political values to sense of humor to family relationships to life goals. I started thinking about that again because our parents just met over Zoom last month and his dad told my parents, "they're so good for one another, the way they interact and make decisions, it's like they're one person." And that really stood out to me and just made me think. What the hell is it that allowed he and I to build a life together against all odds, if not for the fact that on some level, our hearts are the same? The same in a way that was born, not made, and we just happened to find each other? We didn't change or compromise on anything important - despite all our outward differences, something fundamental about us matched in a way that I can't explain, and that's why we cared enough to wade through all the other stuff that didn't mesh.

I think about that lyric in "January Wedding" where the he sings "she's talking to me with her / voice down so low I cannot hear her / but I know what she's saying / I understand because my heart / and hers are the same" and I think about that Cicero quote "verus amicus est tanqam alter idem" (a true friend is, as it were, a second self), and I just lose it.

I hope this wasn't too much or too personal! I'm glad you're enjoying my emotional Odysseyblogging and I hope your Wilson reread is great.

[finelythreadedsky]

so frustrating to read about the bow contest in the odyssey. like you all do not get it! it's an impossible task!!!! whether or not penelope recognizes odysseus at this point, she knows full well that there's not a chance any of the suitors are going to be able to string the bow! penelope saying she'll marry whoever can shoot through the axes is the same sort of thing as saying she'll marry when she finishes the shroud! except with the bow she can place the blame on them by saying they failed to complete the task required to earn her hand, potentially buying her indefinite time.

[finelythreadedsky]

rereading emily wilson's rendering of the hanging of the slave women in odyssey 22 and i was really struck by how she consistently calls them "girls," even when the greek explicitly refers to them as γυναῖκες, and i was wondering why she might have made this choice to make them appear younger in english than they do in greek, but i realized that greek doesn't have anything else to call them. there simply isn't a word for a "girl" who isn't a virgin and isn't being talked about as someone's daughter. by virtue of being enslaved and raped, they are referred to as adult women, no matter how young they are.

[finelythreadedsky]

no secret third thing.

[finelythreadedsky]

hold this space for my alternative odyssey that includes the beruriah incident

[finelythreadedsky]

achilles choosing between living on through nostos and living on through kleos vs odysseus choosing between literally living forever and living on through both kleos and nostos. thinking this through.

[finelythreadedsky]

every time i revisit the odyssey it's even funnier how odysseus introduces himself to the phaeacians: "hi my name is odysseus laertiades and i'm a liar." just like, keep that in mind for the next four books, alcinous.

[finelythreadedsky]

hit me with your best explanation for why the homeric sirens are a pair instead of a trio the way female collectives in greek myth/literature usually are (the fates, the graces, the graeae, the horae, the gorgons, the muses who are a trio of trios)

[finelythreadedsky]

obsessed with the idea that the phaeacians are the only ones who consider hephaestus the husband of aphrodite. it isn't even in the main narrative voice of the odyssey, it's just within demodocus' story. in the iliad hephaestus' wife is charis and i so want to say that in the odyssey hephaestus is actually still married to charis and it's only the phaeacians who think he's married to aphrodite and they're wrong.

[finelythreadedsky]

it’s really interesting that I’ve been thinking about the olive tree bed the last few days bc I think margaret atwood gets that it’s a zero sum game that the two of them are playing, but she does what I would never have thought to do based on the text of the odyssey and the scholarship I’ve been reading: she says that odysseus wins this game

[finelythreadedsky]

Ἠῶ δ᾽ αὖτε | ῥύσατ᾽ ἐπ᾽ Ὠκεανῷ χρυσόθρονον???????? the time-traveling goddess Pallas Athene indeed