#the way it's written and the way Armand tries to cope

[nalyra-dreaming]

Do you think the show will treat Lestat's other relationships the same way Loumand was handled? What I mean is will all of Lestat's relationships circle back to Louis the way it did for Louis with Lestat? I'm skeptical about this because Louis doesn't have near as many relationships or story development in the novels as Lestat does so I'm not sure if the upcoming season will handle Lestat's relationships the same as it handled Louis's. Anne made Lestat a lot more developed and complex and by extension his relationships with others were further explored as compared to Louis who only had a unfulfilling relationship with Armand and a brief ordeal with Merrick.

... Loumand was handled the way it was because it was based on what was in the books.

And that is and will be the same for the other relationships.

That said, all of them always come back to Louis and Lestat eventually, together, in the eye of the hurricane, in the show and book I'd argue. It is what it - and the books - are built on, where it starts and where it ends.

These relationships are interwoven. There's history, and history with each other. Anne had to let Louis go because he represented her grieving self.

Which doesn't make you wrong there, but I do think it needs to be considered in the evaluation.

Lestat's first important relationships happened prior to Louis. S3 will therefore not call back to his and Louis' relationship like that. Louis was not born yet (in the show). Lestat's relationship with Nicolas, Gabrielle and even Armand are not about Louis in any kind of way, they cannot be.

Louis' relationship with Armand on the contrary was all about Lestat to a big extent at least, for reasons we saw from Louis' side with his DreamStat of course but also his behavior towards Armand... but which we will better understand from Armand's side after s3, too.

Louis leaves Armand ... and goes back to Lestat, whether it now be the contested meeting or the rock concert meeting at the end of s3, which I think they'll surely keep in some kind of fashion.

The thing is, even in the books Lestat always goes back to Louis. It always is about Louis, but they are both not ready for a long while, because of the things that happen in-between, and which shake both their worlds. And they both deal with these things differently.

Merrick... is a spell, not a relationship - both of Louis' fledglings happen under coercion, under a spell, in the books. I wouldn't call that relationship. And I don't call Akasha a relationship either, she submits Lestat to her will with veiled threats - that's not a relationship either, though Lestat tries to frame it as such to cope - something he always does. Blood Canticle was written in the pain of Stan's passing, and, mind you, for all the love confessions for Rowan there... Lestat turns for and from love, and he does not turn her.

And what other love is there? David? That was different, too. Oh, it might have been intended as a replacement by Anne, yes, but David always read very different in his relationship to and with Lestat, he was always more the confidant, and teacher than an equal lover.

Lestat calls Louis his lover.

They are "it" for each other.

It's just... a bumpy road.

[erebus0dora]

this might get an accidental double publication bc the web connection fails me, but still-

-this belongs to @nile-the-empathy-cleric, the author of the gorgeous Ego Death. this might also be the first commission of mine in three years that's not a slow thing brewing for a long-term friend.

anyway. them touches and tenderness. we all need this 💜

[salethe2]

Okay, so instead of sleeping, I'm here writing this, but I just had to share my thoughts on episode 7 and the relationship between Armand and Louis.

I'll probably need to rewatch the episode a few more times to fully grasp everything and maybe make another post but wow—episode 7 was absolutely devastating.

Okay, so starting with Louis… Honestly, I can’t even be mad at Louis anymore. Initially, I was yelling at my screen, wondering if he was just blind. Armand’s manipulations have become so blatant, yet Louis doesn’t seem to notice. Watching this episode, seeing how Daniel doesn’t even get angry or judge Louis or get angry at Armand like he did last episode—it hit me. Louis probably knows deep down that Armand is behind everything, but he’s in denial. Because, as twisted as Armand is, Louis feels he’s all he’s got left. And I think Daniel starts to see this towards the end of the episode. Sure, he still states the facts, as a journalist does, and makes it obvious that he knows Armand is hiding things, but he doesn’t call Armand a liar like he did last episode, he just listens, and is calm because what else can he do?

Not only is there manipulation going on from Armand, but Louis also remembers and tells the story differently from how it happened as a coping mechanism. Because as much as I’d like to blame Armand on everything, the changes in Claudia’s turning, and his fight with Lestat were done by Louis, so he is very much lying to himself.

And what can Daniel do? What would Louis do if the last thread holding him was cut? Can Daniel do that to him? Does he have the right to do that? Would he cause him even more pain by doing that? Because as much as Louis is ignoring the obvious manipulation, as soon as it all comes to light, that bubble will burst and there will be no going back. At the same time, Daniel is not excusing Armand. I mean, the look he gives him in this scene is so telling. His voice is soft and almost surprised. "Wow, you saved Louis. How nice of you." But the way he looks at him, it's as if he's saying, "I know this is all a lie and you're the one behind all this, but I'll play along for now." I mean he could have easily just asked Louis if all of this doesn’t seem weird to him, driven that point forward more like at the beginning of the episode or last episode, but he just says “but not her” and that small sentence nearly broke the bubble of ignorance around Louis but oddly enough Daniel stops there, does not push a bit more. (I guess we’ll wait and see if this remains the same next episode).

As for Armand…I mean, I love him, and I think he’s a is brilliantly written character because he didn’t just isolate Louis; he stripped away everything in his life, turned his heart further against Lestat, and crafted scenarios where, even if Louis confronts the truth about his manipulations, he’s still trapped. Because what can Louis do? Abandon the only semblance of connection he has left? Lestat remarked in this episode that anything is preferable to loneliness for a vampire. Consequently, Louis would rather turn a blind eye than sever the last tie he holds. Even when Louis considered ending it all—something he already tried before—Armand wouldn’t permit it. Louis can’t even challenge Armand, given the disparity in their power. So, what else can he do!!

As for wether or not Armand is a villain, I can’t really say without watching the last episode, but I will say that know it’s easy to label him as merely evil and manipulative—traits he undoubtedly possesses—but I beg to differ on the notion that he feels no remorse. Yes, he’s orchestrated some truly horrible acts, even gave himself a front-row seat to watch it all go down, but to say he harbors no regret? I don’t believe that’s entirely accurate. I think, in his own warped way, a part of him believes he’s helping Louis, possibly as a coping mechanism for his own guilt.

As for what he did to Madeleine and Claudia, it was downright horrible and he 100% meticulously planned it all, still, I suspect a sliver of guilt does linger within him—not specifically for what he did to them, but for the essence of his actions and the hatred towards the loneliness that’s shaped him.

I mean, we have to remember that this is a man who endured unimaginable horrors even before he was turned, and has lived in solitude for 500 years! Lestat, at 150 years old, moved a man to tears by sharing his loneliness. Can you imagine the depth of pain, loneliness, self-loathing, sadness, anger, and a myriad of other emotions this man has borne for half a millennium?

This isn’t to say that Armand’s actions are justified—far from it. But it does highlight the devastating impact of loneliness on vampires and how it can profoundly twist their minds. For 500 years Armand has been alone and the only light he saw through that darkness was to take this half broken man, take everything he had and make him as broken as him to make sure he would always be his. Again, this does not justify his actions, but merely explains them.

All of this being said, the presence of guilt, albeit slight, likely twists inside him. Armand might reinterpret this feeling as ‘helping’ Louis, keeping him blissfully unaware of the harsh truths as a way to alleviate his own conscience. Kind of like, “I know I did this horrible thing, but there was no way around it, and I hate myself for it—for being this way. But I have to keep this man by my side for his own good and my own, by any means necessary.”

Also, just adding this, can we take a moment to discuss the lighting in this shot? Notice how Armand's face is partially shadowed when facing Louis, yet the side that's illuminated is turned towards Daniel. Honestly loved the lighting in this entire episode.

Anyway, this is precisely why I believe Louis DID asked Armand to erase those memories in San Francisco

And why he remove the torn pages from Claudia’s journals. Because he prefers a life of blissful ignorance over the agony of truth.

Of course Armand willingly, and easily went along with all of this because it keeps Louis by his side, so it plays nicely into his manipulations. Still, I do believe that Louis did in fact ask him to erase those memories. Does his consent to all of this make it any better? If anything, it makes it worse. This is a man so ensnared and without any escape that he’d rather erase painful memories—those that remind him of the grim reality of his situation—than live with them. And Armand’s mind is so twisted that he probably convinces himself it’s all right. In his mind, as long as he has consent, he isn’t doing anything wrong.

Anyway, that’s all I have for now but honestly, Louis’s only real escape now is through Lestat. Otherwise, he needs to figure out how to outmaneuver the master manipulator himself—because I doubt Armand will let go without a fight.

[dannymolloy]

In Marius’ defence; getting very personal

First of all, there has been some confusion here on Tumblr as to what my intentions are with this post. If you read this and honestly believe I condone pedophilia, I can tell you now; I don’t. Simple as that. If you read this post, written out of my own emotions and translate that to me not caring about yours, that’s simply false. Just because I share mine, doesn’t mean I don’t care about yours. Each their own. Simple as that.  If you truly believe I wrote this piece to trivialize abuse victims and/or glorify sexual predators, you think very poorly of me and I invite you to come and talk to me to get to know me better. I guarantee you, I’m a very nice, loving and caring person. Secondly, we’re talking about a fandom. Almost in all fandoms, there is love for protagonists and antagonists alike. This does not mean we condone crime, rape and murder in real life. Look at the love for The Joker, Sephiroth, Moriarty, The Master,  Mason Verger etc. Is everyone that loves these characters a bigot and contributor to the trivialising of crime victims? No. Wether it’s a villain that not so bad or a ‘hero’ that’s not all good; it is still fiction. No matter how real our feelings are for certain fictional characters, this is not a real reflection of our stance in real life. Period. Especially in VC, the fandom is based on loving killers. We love Lestat. We love Armand. All the vampires in VC have done horrible, horrid stuff, taken lives and committed an array of criminal acts to (for example) get undeniable wealth. To go into this and pin pointing one guy with a flaw that makes him in all honesty a villain (Marius in this case); is funny to me as they then all are. They are all criminals. They are all killers, arsonists and thieves and all have their own mental issues to cope with. I will gladly have discussions about individual characters and their crimes or contributions to the fandom, but don’t point fingers saying I discredit crime victims when the whole series does that in romanticizing vampirism in the first place. If you don’t like the books, I discourage you to read this post or anything I post on my Daniel blog. 

If someone reads this and still finds me a horrible person, I insist you contact me personally in PM for an open conversation. Don’t hide behind others. If you want your voice to be heard, speak up. I am open to any civil, reasonable conversation. ON TO THE ACTUAL POST. ------ One of my dear friends just messaged me about how she feels terrible about the fact that Marius is being portrait as an abusive monster by a lot of people of the fandom and nothing but that. And I just want to share with you my story to let you guys know why there are people out there that love him.

Reading this story take in account that I am religious. When I was 15 I got into a particular fandom which stimulated my art, my creatively and my love for roleplay. I fell madly in love with one of the characters and RPed him for a looooong time. Nonstop. Only back then I did not know what a muse was. I did not know of the word. And darker forces took advantage of that. When it was revealed that this particular character died in the next book, it tore my heart to shreds. And instead of experiencing the muse as an inspirational source for my writing, it became a constant presence that would ‘talk’ to me. Said it came to be with me. Demand things of me. For almost two years this thing pretending to be him tried to isolate me and drag me down a dark path. I would be his and only his. I even broke up with a boyfriend back then whom I was crazy about. Because he told me to. And in the end he would even start telling me to off myself to truly be with him. Thank god something then clicked in me, only then realising this was going too far. I believe by recognising it, God reached out and expelled it. This thing left. But I didn’t realise it was my own strength- my own doing that did this. So I was distraught. It broke me. It left me depressed and unhappy for more years than I dare admit. It ruined my ability to be romantically involved with anyone which I still suffer from till this day.

But then something happened. I got introduced to the Vampire Chronicles fandom. I was scared at first. The confrontation with such strong, vibrant characters and the overwhelming subject of death made me so very weary for this fandom. But when I reached the point in The Vampire Lestat where Marius dug Lestat up and Lestat said he had never laid eyes on something so beautiful, I was roused. And as I kept reading, this Marius- this beautiful, man so full of life and optimism and love for life made me smile again. He was calm and wise and friendly and so extremely patient. An artist too and in love with everything beautiful in life. He appreciated the simple gesture of opening a door and all his strength and power made him humble towards weakness. Through his death, he only loved life more. All these lessons overwhelmed me. Shook me to my core. Slapped me in the face and told me this was the muse to follow. And he saved me. He literally saved me. I smiled again. I started appreciating life again. I went back to art school. I started appreciating the small beauties around me again. He opened my eyes again to the beauty of living. Getting back into roleplay scared me but I met a girl who for the first time explained what a muse was and only then did I realise that I had been tricked. That I had been taken advantage of by darker forces. And so then I decided that if I was going to RP again, I was going to keep the now called muses at a distance. And I did. And I still do. And I can enjoy it again. I can enjoy life again.

-----

In Marius’ defence Yes, after reading all the books, I realise he has major issues. I know he made some really bad decisions and a million more mistakes. But let me tell you; I was happy to see he wasn’t perfect. I was relieved to know that even those we look up to are flawed. And yes, in the span of his life, which is over 20 lifetimes!!!!, it is really quite OKAY for him to make more mistakes than we do in a lifetime. But lets not forget he is a vampire. Do we blame a lion for killing the antelope? No. It’s in his nature. Do we blame a vampire for manipulating and taking lives? No. It’s in their nature. It is quite unfair to throw shade at Marius for faltering every now and then when he so desperately tries to be human. And then there are some things I wish to point out that people seem to forget. - If it wasn’t for Marius, The Parents would have died thousands of years ago and the vampire race would have gone extinct. There would literally be no VC if it wasn’t for Marius sacrificing his freedom to harness and protect the Core.

- The knowledge of Marius’ possible existence was the thing that kept Lestat going in TVL. It was Marius that dug him out of the ground for a second shot at life. It was Marius who showed Lestat there was more to vampirism than the pain he had suffered so far.

- Without Marius intervening, Daniel would have been lost. Despite Marius’ double agenda to kill his own loneliness or feeble attempts to make it up to Armand, taking Daniel in was an act of kindness. Marius saved Daniel and only could through his endless patience.

- Marius welcomes Mael into his house. This is such an important aspect of his endless attempts to be good. Do not forget Marius was a very, very happy man in his mortal days. Mael stole that away from him. He robbed him of a simple but wonderful life and tossed him into this whirlpool of death and loneliness and misery. And yet Marius lets him sleep under his roof and offers him his own clothes!! His kindness is often obscured by acts of petty behaviour, but in his heart he is a genuinely good man who wants peace. He tries. And that is what matters.

- It is Santino that destroyed Armand. Not Marius. It gets my blood boiling when people have Armand speak in defence of Santino and somehow dare to shove all the blame onto Marius. Despite his questionable ethics with children, Marius wanted nothing but to give the boys and especially Amadeo a second chance in life. He wanted to make him happy, knowledgeable, successful and powerful. Marius is not the one that set the Palazzo on fire. Marius is not the one that tossed children in a fire. Marius is not the one that cruelly made Amadeo kill his best friend. Marius is the one that got burned to the bone and had to recover for 100 YEARS!! Marius is the one that had to suffer the loss of all his children. The loss of his happiness he experienced in Venice. The loss of his acolyte. The loss of his empire. His pupil. His lover. Marius is the one that served Akasha and was therefor told to leave Amadeo behind. I am not saying he was right in leaving Amadeo behind. Yes, t was one of the biggest mistakes he made. Despite being weak and in excruciating pain, he gave up on Amadeo because Santino had already tainted him. The fact that Amadeo forgot about his trauma’s in the past, Marius had a clean slate to make the best piece of art he had ever made. But Santino went over it with a sharpy and Marius, forever being the perfectionist, did not see a chance of saving it. And yes, that was wrong of him. And yes, he should have tried to get Amadeo back and save him. But it is extremely unfair to forget all these things in play. Marius suffered tremendously through this ordeal and caught his own traumas on the way. - He stays positive. He couldn’t marry the girl he loved due to discrimination. He was kidnapped. He was robbed of his mortal life by a man whom he later had to safe by pulling his head off and putting it back the right way. Three of his houses got burned down to the ground. He sacrificed his own freedom for the sake of his kind by taking care of The Parents. Akasha then thanked him by crushing him and breaking all his bones. He lost his happiness and the love of his life by a Satan-worshipping cult. He suffered 100 years because he was set on fire. He got the chance to finally be with the woman he loved but literally missed the memo. And yet... he stays positive. His natural optimism of living a happy, mortal life is what kept him going. It’s what made him a child of the millennia. He is the eternal optimist because he knows how precious life is.

So again; I am not saying you don’t have any right or reasons to dislike Marius or distrust him. All I want to say with this, is that despite his flaws, he inspired and set in motion more than the fandom gives him credit for. He suffered more than the fandom gives him credit for. He saved my life and therefor I will always defend him. He deserves it.

[nalyra-dreaming]

Okay, so...unsure if this has been brought up.

I recently finished reading Merrick. And I had a thought.

Assuming for a moment that Louis was present at the end of QOTD and was there for the big explanation of vampiric origins; why is he so despondent in subsequent books?

He got the answers he was looking for in all the previous books, the wheretos and whyfors of vampires, but it seems like those answers weren't enough for him. So he continues his weird vampire ascetic existence.

If he wasn't present at the end of QOTD, it makes sense. But I'm pretty sure I recall him being there. If so, does he just not accept that answer because it doesn't fit his worldview? Is he written that way because Anne wanted to diminish his VC 'screentime' and eventually write him out, until fans pressured her to abandon that idea?

Because the whole book of Merrick seems to be an homage to Louis whole inability to reconcile the truth of vampires and his own worldview, through the literary device of Claudia.

Unless I'm totally off the mark here. Which is why I bring it to one with greater discernment than I.

Hey dear!

Not sure about the last part but I'll try :P

So... personally I think Anne tried to let go of Louis (even write him out as you put it) because she had to. Louis is who she was when she mourned, why she wrote IWTV, and she had to leave him behind at some point to go on and for me that helps with understanding why the Chronicles are structured they way they are.

Louis was there for the answers/end in QotD, yes.

But Anne... had a very specific expectation on a Christian's view on the revelations - she had Marius say the following in TVL:

"No. As I told you, tell part and you will end up telling all. Besides, if these fledglings are children of the Christian god, if they are poisoned as Nicolas was with the Christian notion of Original Sin and guilt, they will only be maddened and disappointed by these old tales. It will all be a horror to them that they cannot accept. Accidents, pagan gods they don't believe in, customs they cannot understand. One has to be ready for this knowledge, meager as it may be.[..]"

Now, Louis was still a pretty young, pretty "human" vampire when QotD happened. And yes, he is "poisoned by the notion of Original Sin". He had also just been reunited with Lestat, to have him ripped away again, had met his mother-in-law/sister, and literally the eldest, and strongest of his kind.

Quite the tour-de-force if you ask me :)

And what had been the answer to the questions? An accident, leading to a mutation. And he got first hand evidence that the vampiric state makes them statues over time, or drives them mad. (The show hints at that already, too.)

And all that on top of a literal genocide on his "species", on his kind, a mass-murder he only escaped because he was deemed a bargaining chip by their "Queen".

So yes... after that "high" of reuniting with Lestat at the end of QotD must have come a rather heavy "drop". Both Louis and Lestat cannot deal with what was revealed, and they are coping in the way they know how to - Louis withdraws, to his books, to his paintings, to his little shed, while Lestat roams (and tries to kill himself, a move which Louis then later echoes in Merrick, for slightly different reasons, granted, but ultimately... the same, for having been brought to his proverbial knees, unable to go on anymore).

Merrick brings them full circle, and the resurrection levels them, in power and understanding, though Louis blames Lestat for a while, after, before he accepts what and who he is eventually.

For me, Merrick closes the guilt arcs, and together with TtotBT these arcs are closed within the story because they both offer up what they have left to give - their lives.

And they "fail" at that. (So does Armand btw, but that just as a note.)

And they need to come to terms with that, too. Especially Louis, I'd argue, because his upbringing would condemn suicide, and I do think he expected to end up in hell, which he knew (or expected) to be true after all, after Lestat's little stunt with Memnoch. Maybe he even hoped for it to be true, because it would have meant that something he believed in held true.

So yes, Louis is still struggling with that, then.

And he is for quite another while after, though Anne did not write it out like that (unfortunately).

It's just implied, with them breaking up in the jungles, and Louis going to Armand at Trinity Gate, and finding peace within himself there.

Merrick is indeed a bit of an homage at Louis‘ inability to reconcile what he knows is the truth with what he believes (or wants to believe) - but it is also the logical repercussion, and also, in a way, a try of Louis finding out the truth - a last ditch effort.

Which is why his tearful breakdown when Lestat asks him what he saw… and he says “nothing“… is so incredibly heart-breaking, because it tells us of the hope that was shattered. The hope to see her… or anything, really.

But there’s nothing.

There are no answers, no relief from the guilt, no reason - just… them.