#the royalty parallel I could (and have) draw

[r1ver-6]

Psych-os,

You ever think about the fact that Shawn’s advice for dating is, “You treat a woman like a person, then a PRINCESS, then a Greek goddess, then a person again…”

And

Gus has the line, “I’m nobody’s pawn, Shawn. I’m a QUEEN.”

Anyone else think about that or is it just me?

[novelmonger]

I wasn't expecting it to take this long, but after a million distractions, I'm back to going through the LotR audio commentaries and taking note of any interesting tidbits I haven't heard before.

Please enjoy my notes on the RotK design team commentary with Richard Taylor, Tania Rodger, Grant Major, Alan Lee, John Howe, Dan Hennah, and Chris Hennah:

They had to make Deagol's ears out of waterproof gelatin rather than latex because he was going to fall in the water, and the normal latex ears would have come off. I guess they must have done the same any other time a Hobbit got submerged, but they didn't say that.

The fish that Gollum eats at the beginning is made from some kind of edible gelatin so he could actually bite into it. They also had another prop fish that wasn't edible that they gave Andy Serkis to keep at the end XD

The little stone hollow thing where Frodo and Sam are sleeping for their first scene in the movie was a set they built with a removable back wall so they could get a camera in to shoot it from the back as well as the front. Why did I never think of that before?

There were a couple of extra shots they needed of Orthanc in the background to finish up the movie, but they hadn't managed to get the footage from the miniatures (and I guess the miniatures were gone by that point? idk). So they took one of the model collectibles Weta had made and took some photos of it out in the parking lot XD

Whoooooaaaa! Okay, so Alan Lee talks about how, in legends, they say that you have to kill a wizard three times for him to stay dead. And Saruman dies "three times" - first he's stabbed, then he's impaled, then he's drowned. So Saruman is dead dead. Dare I say it? This is...I think this is a better death than the one in the book ._.

They even put carvings on the crossbeams underneath the seats of the chairs in Edoras! You are never ever going to see them, but that was their dedication to making everything feel authentic. That's what sets this apart from so many fantasy movies and shows made these days.

Red in the costumes is meant to suggest royalty. That's why Aragorn, Boromir, Theoden, and Theodred all have red in their costumes - as well as Bilbo and Frodo! You're meant to look at someone wearing red and unconsciously think, "there's something regal about them."

John Howe points out that you probably wouldn't ever reforge a sword like they do with Narsil, at least not in the sense of putting the pieces back together, because it wouldn't be as strong as it was originally. (You could melt it down and start over again, of course.) But, he reminds us, these are the Elves, and it's more of a symbolic thing anyway.

The great hall in Minas Tirith was inspired by Charlemagne's chapel (and Byzantine architecture was one of the main influences on the design of Gondor in general).

The statue of the king in Ithilien was made out of polystyrene, which you would think would be pretty light, but it was so huge it was actually very heavy. They had to transport it to the location in three pieces: the base, the body, and the head. And to lift one on top of each other, they had to rig a sort of pulley system over the limb of a tree, using a four-wheel drive truck to pull it. But they discovered that the first truck wasn't getting enough traction, so they hooked a second truck up to it, and ended up pulling the first truck up into the air along with the statue!

They created fourteen new weapons just to put in the background of the armory in the scene where the Witch-King is getting ready for battle @_@

John Howe said that his inspiration for Minas Morgul was...getting his wisdom teeth pulled??? He describes a metal clamp digging into the perfectly healthy enamel of his tooth to pull it out, and draws a parallel to the metal pieces the orcs fitted to the top of the pristine white parapets, staining and violating them. Um...thanks, I could've done without that visual, John.

I can't believe I never thought about this before, but there's a little wooden roof over the pile of wood for the beacon that Pippin lights. The reasoning behind that is you need some kind of cover to keep the wood more or less dry for when it needs to be lit in an emergency. The beacon will burn away the wooden roof, but it can be replaced easily enough, and it's worth it to be able to quickly light the beacon.

A lot of the saddles they used were ordered from the Indian military, because they had a good, old-fashioned sort of look to them. Then they would add onto the saddles with things that would make them look distinctly Rohirric, rather than Indian.

Alan Lee's daughter worked on some of the figures in the doors of Minas Tirith!

John Howe goes off on this whole tangent about how there's no religion or religious structures in Middle-Earth, and why that might be, but the whole time I was just sitting there going, "...have you never read The Silmarillion????"

Because they had to make over a hundred suits of Gondorian armor, other than the hero suits, they couldn't make each one exactly the right size for the man who would wear it, so the casting department had to only get actors within a certain range of size. They also built the suits of armor with sliding pieces, so they could be somewhat fitted to different sizes.

The horses started out as being part of the art department's responsibility, but as time went on, there were just so many horses they had to keep track of (and the various liveries they would have to be fitted out with) that they had to make a separate horse department to oversee it all.

Because so much of the movie was filmed on-location, in some very remote locations, they had to make a sort of caravan of mobile repair stations that they could take with them. They had all the tools and crew necessary on hand wherever they went so they could repair broken props or ripped costumes, reapply makeup for gore and injuries, take nicks out of the edge of weapons.... It was really like moving an army around!

For the dream where the Evenstar breaks, they made a version of it that was five times bigger than normal, out of a very brittle resin. Then they made an oversized section of the floor and dropped it from a great height so it would completely shatter in a dramatic way like that.

Anduril was John Howe's design. He based it on a sword belonging to a friend of his in Germany, which to him is the ideal sword, the most beautiful sword. He also talked a bit about how Men were taller and bigger in the First and Second Ages, so their swords would have been longer.

John Howe: "Why do people criticize Tolkien for not developing his characters sufficiently? I cannot fathom that kind of criticism. I think it's done by people who don't read between the lines."

Richard Taylor said they had a lot of fun gathering up all the skulls after each take in the Paths of the Dead to put back up at the top so they could be poured down again. Apparently Viggo liked to gather them up and try to throw them at the crew members! "Many hours of skullduggery was to be had," as Richard put it XD

Apparently, they'd made dozens of really finely detailed silicone heads to be lobbed over the wall of Minas Tirith, but then all but one of them were stolen! So they had to quickly put together some crude latex ones to use in the shoot instead (one of which the mayor of Wellington threw). They didn't talk about this, but I'm assuming the one good head that was left is the one that gets a close-up. You have to wonder who out there was sitting around with a bunch of highly realistic latex severed heads in his basement or something....

While most of the siege towers are miniatures or CG, they built the top third of one and put it on tracks so they could move it up against the wall. They built the set with breakable ramparts for when the little drawbridge thing crashes down.

They had the same trouble in Minas Tirith that they did in Helm's Deep, with the battering ram being too heavy for the stunties to lift. But they never actually explained how they got around that problem, if it was the same solution or not :/ All they said was that they had replaceable panels in the doors, in case they were damaged by the battering ram.

In order to make Shelob's webs, they had to heat up two polymers and mix them together to make the stringy, sticky material. In order to mix them, they had to be heated up to 220 degrees C, but if they got up to 228 degrees, they would burst into flame @_@ After they were heated and mixed, they would dribble the mixture on top of a vat of water, where it would cool in spiderweb-like shapes. Then they would lift it out on a frame, and they could carefully place it on the set. One time, the polymers did burst into flame, and they were running out of fire extinguishers to put it out! O.O Eventually, they did call the fire department, who said they'd done everything the fire department would have done. They got the fire put out, but it was a nerve-wracking moment, because the room where they were making the webs was connected to the studio, so it could have been disastrous D:

Bernard Shaw apparently got the idea to do that whole bit where he knocks his sword against the row of spears when he saw the collection of spears all lined up in a row in the art department.

The "oil" that Denethor pours over himself and Faramir is a mixture of glycerin and water. (I always wonder about these things, so I'm really glad they mentioned it.)

When they were filming the pyre scene, they had a silicone dummy for Faramir on the burning pyre. Apparently somebody on the crew brought "David Wenham" a cup of coffee over because they thought he'd fallen asleep on the side of the set, only to discover that it was a dummy! XD

The horse rig they made for close-up work of people on horseback got affectionately nicknamed "the Phony Pony." The first day they brought it on set, Peter Jackson got up on it and "rode" the horse, making the whole crew laugh XD

One of the ideas that Peter Jackson came up with for the mumakil in a brainstorming session (which Richard Taylor says he's still not sure if PJ was serious about or not) was that they could suck up several riders in its trunk and then fire them out like bullets. I'm...really glad they didn't go with that, whether PJ was serious or not <_<

Alan Lee says that the first time he saw the dead mumakil that Weta made for the set, the body was hollow, and some of the crew had set up a TV inside it and were watching a rugby game XD

The last miniature they built for LotR was the Minas Tirith docks where the Corsair ships come in. It kept getting put off until almost the end of the shoot, so they only had five days to put it together! @_@

All of the dead horses are fake, of course, so Weta had to make them all. They were made of lightweight material, so each day you'd see the set dressers just kind of casually carrying in a whole dead horse and then picking one up from the battlefield afterwards like it's no big deal. They had to do a lot of repairs to the dead horses, because the legs and ears kept falling off or getting bent the wrong way XD

The stone Watchers in Cirith Ungol have Maori influence in their design. I wish they'd talked about that in more detail, but it was just mentioned in passing.

They were concerned about the various copies of the One Ring being stolen, so they kept it in a lunchbox that was labeled "Screws."

The scene where Frodo and Sam join the orc convoy was filmed on location up on a mountain, so they had to deal with a whole bunch of extras in extensive prosthetics and armor, which would make them sweat while they were moving around, but then when the camera wasn't rolling, it would be a challenge to keep them warm. The way they did most of the orcs was that they wore a rubber mask and then a helmet, and they would need to take them off at regular intervals so the actors could get some air. So in between takes, after the director called, "Cut!" there would also be a cry of, "Heads off!" That meant the dressers would have to rush into the crowd and quickly take off the extras' helmets and masks XD

Because the crew was committed to not damaging any of the flora and fauna in the places where they were filming, even in the location that became the plains of Mordor that Frodo and Sam struggle across, there were little flowers and moss that they wanted to protect (and it was a national park). So they would lay down carpets on the ground for people to walk on, so they wouldn't damage the plant life. I'm sure that made for a strange sight, Frodo and Sam struggling in tattered clothing over rocks and boulders, surrounded by perfectly ordinary rugs XD

To do the decapitation of the Mouth of Sauron, they had a headless dummy sitting there, and Viggo would swipe his sword where the head should be. Then Weta Digital put in the head afterwards.

The lava in Mount Doom was mostly a miniature (except for the set where Sean and Elijah did their part), made from methyl cellulose and other things to make it look like lava. They set it up on a table that they would tilt so it would flow down around the model boulders made from urethane.

Richard Taylor said that, at that time, no one had really done a very good CG bird, so he was especially pleased at how the eagles turned out.

There were about 400 people working in the art department total, and most of them had never worked in the film industry before! @_@

Ngila Dickson's philosophy for the Elves was that none of their "crowns" or headpieces would go upwards, but would fit close around their heads and then go down. That's one of those things I've subconsciously noticed all these years, but never really thought about before.

Apparently, a little bit of the graphite used on Aragorn's armor in the coronation scene kind of puffed out when he and Arwen go in for their kiss, and got on Arwen's dress D: And some well-meaning person tried to rub it off, but only succeeded in spreading it around further, thus ruining the dress. And most of the female characters only had one copy of each costume, because all except for Eowyn don't see battle and thus don't need different versions with varying amounts of wear and tear. They're just made to wear in one or two scenes of them looking pretty and walking through a room. But alas, that lovely green dress was ruined.

They didn't have much time with Sir Ian Holm, so they only had a week to get a mold of his face and make the old-age prosthetics for the Grey Havens. But then word came down that he didn't want to have prosthetics, so they were to just make him look old with makeup. They were really disappointed, but then on the day, Ian Holm saw the prosthetics sitting off in the corner and asked what it was. When they explained, he said it wasn't true, and insisted on them putting the prosthetics on instead.

One thing that was really impressed upon me during this whole commentary (over all three movies) was just how much love and joy all of the crew had for the project. Sometimes you watch a movie or read a book that really means a lot to you, that's changed your life, and you wonder if the people who made it fully grasp what a beautiful thing they've created. These people know. They were fully aware, from start to finish, that they were making something truly great and worthy of praise. And I think that's beautiful.

[skippygiraffee]

I'm once again thinking of SWSH.

Specifically, thinking about Leon and Raihan's rivalry and how that's framed. Rivalry in SWSH is interesting to me, because the rivals in Pokemon game are usually relegated to the relationship between the player character and some of the others that join them on the journey across the various regions. And SWSH both has a lot of rivals in Hop, Marnie, and Bede, but also showcases rivalry and what that looks like in both adulthood and in the professional setting in Leon and Raihan. Which to me is intensely interesting in many aspects, and I think they're foils of each other in a lot of ways.

Leon is set up to be polished, confident (edging on the side of arrogance in some cases), if not a bit goofy and aloof. I don't think this personally reflects all of him, not in the slightest, but taking a cursory glance at him, he's clean, he's put together, and he's definitely given the quirk of being the silly goofy guy of Galar who keeps getting lost everywhere. Whereas Raihan is a bit messier, a tad feral in his batting pose, and is shown off as being very intelligent. Raihan is the dragon, Leon is the prince/knight, like I think there's a lot to work with there, and I find a lot of that dichotomy interesting.

They also share some aspects, like the connection to royalty, where Leon has the crown on his hat, and Raihan is literally hanging around a castle. But the ways in which both are presented is so different that it feels like a different kind of royalty, or at least they're not supposed to be seen on equal footing.

I also find their ace Pokemon to be quite interesting. I'll die on the hill that Charizard, in this game, is meant to be a dragon. Raihan has his dragon, Duraludon, and I don't think giving him that one is a coincidence. Because they could have easily given him the other Gen 8 dragon, Dragapult, but they didn't, and I think there's a reason for it aside from Duraludon just fitting Raihan better. Honestly, I think it might be drawing a parallel between the White and Red dragons of the Arthurian tales (which these dragons were also imprisoned under a castle and well. Eternatus is right there), and having Leon and Raihan have two dragons, one white and one red is pretty interesting, at least to me, seeing as it might connect to something real world, and since SWSH does take a lot from the myths and stories of the UK and surrounding areas.

I'm also unsure if it ever states how long their rivalry has been going on, but definitely long enough for it to become part of both of their brands, intertwining them in ways that I don't think they can be pulled apart from. Where the other rivals in game are able to grow outside of the rivalry from one another, Leon and Raihan always seem to be both doing their own thing, and always meeting back at the same place to duke it out again.

Not sure where to end it, seeing as I have a lot more thoughts that get caught in the web, but I wanted to at least down and throw them out onto my blog :3

[uva124]

PRESENTING THE REDESIGN OF THE GIRLBOSS QUEEN AMAYA 📢🗣🗣(I AM SO HAPPY TO HAVE FINISHED THE DRAWINGS)

It should be noted that this is a redesign for the Wish Au character written by @ animación , who helped me with the ideas and references for Amaya's design,@ animación it is very fun to collaborate with you :D

Now I will start to explain how we came to make this design:

-At first I didn't have many ideas for their design (the truth is before I was concentrating more on Aster and Asha) so I decided to watch the Whis movie to get a better idea of ​​the aesthetic I wanted to look for them………yes, the movie is not that good, later I will talk about my opinion of the movie but in terms of design I was disappointed that out of so many possibilities for the design and costumes of royalty, Disney chose a neutral color palette with small details of blue color, I don't know, I feel like there were so many striking possibilities wasted for they desings.

-Well, continuing with the topic, the author of this Au Wish sent me references about what her vision was about the design of Amaya, which were mostly about the storyboards of the movie, I really liked the idea, since it gave me vibes of a threatening but elegant queen,she also sent me some concept art of Mother Gothel that I used as a reference for the structure of Amaya's face

This gave me the idea of ​​also using Sephora that belongs to the movie "The Prince of Egypt" as a reference for the aesthetic that I more or less wanted for the character.

so first I decided to practice the structure of the face to familiarize myself with the design :D (I clarify that I traced the structure of the drawings here because it was just a practice, I used none of these sketches in the final result)

After a while I started making my own sketches when I finally understood how to draw the face

(For the hairstyle, I was guided by the photos that the author sent me, I almost forgot to put that😅)

-I also decided that instead of putting a crown on Amaya, I put a kind of headband with a jewel, because in addition to being comfortable, practical and cute (something that greatly characterizes Amaya's style)

It is also a parallel to my Asha design which has a diamond-shaped tattoo on her forehead.

-Now talking about Amaya's dress, yes or yes I wanted to design a cape with a hood, although at first I thought about adding a neckline to the top part of the dress, an idea came to me which was to be inspired by the Greek mythology character Circe, since curiously she is also a sorceress, I mentioned this to the author and she mentioned that at first when trying to draw her she was inspired by the conceptual art of Megara, who is also Greek, so in the end she decided that maybe the queen comes from from a town in Greece (Also this could have something to do with her backstory 👀)

-At some point in the story we discover that Amaya keeps different potions inside her dress (I guess for emergencies, I don't know), that's why I decided that the dress has a small opening, because in addition to making it easier for you to walk, it would also help you. get your potions out in an easier way (her potions are attached to a belt that would be on her leg or waist I suppose).

-In the end I designed these 3 prototypes and sent them to the author to help me decide which one to choose or which to combine because the truth is I couldn't choose alone (I'm too indecisive).As I said, I was inspired by the character of Circe, so I looked for references of how the Greek goddesses dressed in ancient paintings, and if you look a little closer you can notice that I added the Leo symbol, since it represents the lion. , an animal that was associated with the Greek mythology character I mentioned

Another important detail is the moons on her dress, since it represents motherhood, an aspect that Amaya uses as a facade with her people, and speaking of space, the writer gave me the idea that Magnifico represents the sun since in her own words:

"I know the association with the sun and the moon fits their personalities really well. As the sun can be seen as bright, fun and warm like Magnifico presents himself, but it can also be a force of destruction that burns and is unpredictable. And the moon can be associated with Amaya for being a protective glow in the darkness like how she presents herself as a caring guide, but the moon also has a mysterious dark side we can never see.And the moon only shines to us because the sun is shining on it, so like… Amaya only shines because she’s next to Magnifico"

(Honestly, I'm always surprised by how much symbolism the writer can find for the characters, I only put it in because of what I mentioned before and because I thought it looked cute lol).

(I came up with the belt and most of the costume thanks to this circe painting)

-Don't think that I decided on the colors yellow and dark blue just because they go together well, nonono, this one also has a meaning :D , you see, while I was looking at some of Wish's concept art there were these discarded designs of Magnifico:

And doing a little google search I found this:

-That's why I chose these colors, blue is a color that represents the truth, something that Amaya and Magnifico want to pretend, but the color yellow represents what they truly are, liars.

-And finally (because this writing is taking me more than 2 hours) the roses that are in her dress and hair are natural, and without giving you too many spoilers about the rewrite, Amaya suddenly ages a little, and when this happens the roses also have a change as they wither

Final comments :D

wow, that was quite long ,wasn't it?, I'm more than happy with the result, I hope you like it too, @annymation and I've put a lot of effort into this design and history of Amaya :)

[crimsoncold]

have you ever thought about the snow queen fairytale in connection to jonsa? it might be a reach but i can see elements of them in there

Hi asoiastarks! Please forgive my very delayed and rambly response to this ask

I hadn't really considered this fairytale before but when I thought about it in depth I ended up having way more to say about the connection between Jon and Sansa's stories (and Jonsa as a romantic pairing) and fairytales in general than I expected so I'm putting my response below...

While I wouldn't say that there is one specific fairytale that jonsa (or jon and sansa individually) clearly and directly follows I would totally agree with the opinion that Jon and Sansa (two of asoiaf's comparatively most traditionally romantic characters) definitely seem to draw from or echo several common aspects found with protagonists of traditional fairy tales- both as individual characters and as a potential romantic pairing.

I've definitely seen people describe Sansa as a romantic heroine that has tragically been "misplaced" into a brutal world like westeros- and I think that description holds up and that ultimately her gentle and romantic nature will result in an end that is not simply having all her happiness and hope being destroyed by consistent trauma and narrative punishment but rather will have to involve her life flourishing into something beautiful but still grounded providing a more satisfying end for someone who maintains much of the sort of traditional kindness/goodness found with the typical fairytale princess despite the horrors around her- otherwise asoiaf would seem little more than an outright bitter and nihilistic story

I also think we shouldn't sleep on Jon who underneath his wonderfully bitchy sarcastic grumpy or occasionally ruthless exterior holds similarly romantic values and thoughts

Generally speaking it wouldn't surprise me that someone could find commonalities between a fairytale and Jon and Sansa, I feel that many common tropes that are found in a great number of fairytales can correspond to aspects of Jon's or Sansa's individual story and personalities or to Jonsa as a pairing by itself.

Just listing a few off the top of my head ...Having and reclaiming some secret identity that they may or may not have know about, young members of nobility/royalty raised or living in hiding due to their lives being in peril- typically in a position of lower class than they might actually belong to; being the target of the machinations wrath or cruelty of evil kings/queens/or some type of sorcerer or spellcaster, having notable interactions with or a special connection to animals or some type of mythical creature, the concept of being resurrected from some form of permanent sleep or even death

.... and of course in the case of a possible romantic relationship forming- them being character's who after experiencing incredible hardship, tragedy, or sorrow are ultimately awarded for exhibiting, maintaining, or gaining traits such as kindness/compassion/bravery/dutifulness/or selflessness, the possibility of either of them occupying the role of a hero or saviour for the other from either literal physical threats/enemies or more metaphorical ones like their loneliness or emotional trauma, as well as having a completed and happy story arc that ultimately cumulates in them forming a deeply intimate and loving partnership or marriage.

When it comes to the Snow Queen specifically I'm only passingly familiar with this fairytale (so please forgive me in advance if I miss something obvious or get any details wrong) but based on my very basic knowledge of this fairytale I can definitely think of a number of interesting commonalities/parallels this fairytale could have to Jonsa.

Firstly, because so much of Jon, Sansa, and the Stark family's storyline is rooted in a snowy and cold environment (the north, winterfell, the wall, etc.) and because one major threat in the overall story comes in the form of "ice" (i.e. the Long Night and the Others coming from beyond the wall) it doesn't surprise me that one could find a number of (at least surface leve)l commonalities to a story like the snow queen with its similarly icy setting and villain, as well as find a number of common basic story elements/imagery that occur in both- though not always in the same type of context or role (e.g. the appearance of or focus on ice/snow/snowflakes, roses, crows, doves, and a girl traveling and reuniting with someone in the north, the emphasis put on the sweetness or goodness of a character, and the unexpected effect or power that a character's faith/prayers/love/or inherent goodness can have on the world or people around them)

Most of all i can definitely see the potential for some more direct similarities between the snow queen and a hypothetical (but very possible) jonsa endgame for asoiaf....

First in the form of a character like jon being healed and changed from his own altered state (e.g. some form of strangeness, purposelessness, distantness, coldness, harshness, forgetfulness, or trauma that occurs in the aftermath of his time with the night's watch and his subsequent assassination and resurrection) after he is reunited and touched by the sweetness and affection- the love, tears, or even kiss- of a distantly regarded (or even forgotten post resurrection?) but once beloved part of his childhood- in the form of a girl he was raised with who has made a dangerous and long trek north to be reunited with him,

Secondly I could see strong paralelles occuring regarding the ending, i.e. one that centers around two individuals returning to their common home, grown and deeply changed by their experiences but with a hopeful and happier future promised or symbolized in the form of the changing season (with the upcoming one promising to be a time of warmth and renewal after the comparatively harsh or treacherous winter).

Side Note:

Given got/asoiaf's efforts towards exemplifying a far more corrupt, harsh, cruel, senseless and unjust world than what is typically seen in fantasy works I'm not exactly expecting an ending chock-full of sunshine and rainbows....

However I find it notable that Sansa, and to some extent Jon, exist as somewhat of an outlier in an explicity harsh and grim setting (and are further flanked by a number of characters that are a great deal less romantic and more pragmatic, if not outrightly more selfish, cruel, or even brutal and psychotic)

As a result there is something quite striking about the way many of Jon and Sansa's experiences, core personality traits, and their supposedly hopeless or rejected- yet still deeply idolized- dreams end up resembling eachother in so many ways.

Their desires and motives may (for lack of a better word) be comparatively "simpler" and more straightforward than those of many other characters yet they also correspond to an underlying shared sense of duty and desire for family, and are simultaneously deeply meaningful to the character's personally while also exemplifying an appropriate blend of the series realism/pragmatism with jon and sansa's trademark romanticism.

I do believe that a bittersweet but hopeful and affectionate end for these characters and this epic fantasy tale can definitely (at least in part) take the form of not just a reunion of the surviving starks but also in a sort of slightly twisted and bastardized fairytale end for the series via Jon and Sansa having their dreams (of winterfell, marriage, and family) being fulfilled by a respectful, willing, and even loving marriage to one another.

(a love and relationship that would initially be appropriately fraught and seemingly forbidden or obscene but ultimately would be allowed to blossom giving these two characters the closest a story like asoiaf will ever get to a traditionally "happy" fairytale ending)

A Jonsa endgame would also offer a thematically appropriate foil to several other notable romantic relationships in the series...

Like seriously there is way too much sibling incest in this series for GRRM not to be building up to something/coming full circle in the end with a very different but still pseudo-incestuous relationship in the form of Jonsa

... like I swear to god he's gonna be like "here have a bunch of current, recent, and long past tragic, ruinous, and/or deeply unhealthy and harmful incestuous marriages and relationships...isn't this obviously always such a terrible thing to occur?" only to go against typical expectations of readers and once again reject the simplicity of an obviously black and white story with a strong and consistent divide between the "heroes" and the "villains" and instead sucker punch the audience by offering up an emotionally and thematically fulfilling but somewhat unusual (even uncomfortable for a number of readers) and bittersweet end that once again involves an incestuous (of sorts) relationship only this time amongst the "good" characters in the story, in the form of a marriage between cousins and psuedo siblings Jon and Sansa.

[meraki-sunset]

ok so imagine hypothetically PS, PI, AD and MK exist within sburb

the only names i can think of are for PS under Knave Blanc and eventually Potentate Savior, or in cases where he flips the fuck out like B1 SS, Paragon Soul

the four of them wear tarot suits parallel to the dersite agents [PS: swords, PI: pentacles, AD: wands, MK: chalices]

PS would wear his uniform with the utmost pride and knowingly tarnishing it is a one way ticket to the lockup

PS also has red feelings for his queen despite them being unrequited a lot of the time

PI will pretty much be wearing the gaudiest uniform you've ever seen

MK is consistently gunning for his royalty's ring and scepter as he believes monarchy is weak compared to the diplomacy he has in mind

if the four were in the a2 session their exile command stations would be: PS: Horse [linked to Kanaya], PI: Shark [linked to Nepeta], AD: Ram Skull [linked to Equius, but the video feed is unavailable], and MK: Bull [Linked to Gamzee and Eridan, but only the former is responsive to his commands similar to how vriska was irresponsive to snowman's commands]

That's an interesting take. Tho it's unknown if the Problem Sleuth team are carapace. They show up in homestuck two which would conect the universes, but that is also dubiously canon.

Problem Sleuth existed way before homestuck and the characters look kinda diferent from the chess people. they just look like how the autor liked to draw people. Tho it's known that (in homestuck at least) Midnight City is in fact on Alternia, was founded by Jack Noir and is inhabitated by Carapace, this could have been simply Hussie reciclyng concepts and ideas, adapting them to his new story (homestuck)

There are a couple of things here and there that show up in homestuck which conect them to problem sleuth, like the weapons that change into objects when touched. That could mean that they exist in the same universe, but could also be just bullshit. There's no way to know for sure.

i think people theorized that Problem Sleuth along with the Midnight Crew and maybe The Felt were the ones who imput the comands for the trolls, i like that theory

[deeply-unserious-fellow]

GUYS I'VE OFFICIALLY LOST IT-

So. Awhile ago, I saw this post, right? Basically it just said that Sera and Sir Pentious' cards have very similar compositions, and that Seraphim, which is what Sera is, are often associated with serpents. Interesting, but could still be a coincidence, right?

So anyways I checked the reblogs and saw somebody say they should kiss. And now I'm insane.

Because like... the only thing we know really about Sir Pentious' potential story arc in the show is that he's gonna have a crush on one of the other characters. And the only thing confirmed about his sexuality(to my knowledge) is that he is attracted to women. We don't really have any way to know who his crush is, because there are a lot of women in Hazbin Hotel, but could still be noteworthy, right? And like... okay this is gonna sound like the most "trust me, bro" evidence I could possibly pull out of my ass at first but I just need you to hear me out here, okay? Sera's crown and Sir Pentious' hat have a lot of visual similarities. Here's a helpful diagram :)

Which like. Okay. Could literally be nothing, right? Except for two small things that I can't let go of: One, Sir Pentious' goggles + the v-shaped brim on his hat were added to his design AFTER he was given a more prominent role in the show-

(Pilot design, back when he was meant to be a one-off villain of the week vs current design as a member of the main cast)

And two, the Hellaverse shows kind of have a tendancy to use visuals in order to signify characters' relationships to eachother. It's also just a pretty popular form of symbolism as a whole tbh, but the Hellaverse has a lot of really good examples. Like, for instance, how Vaggie's new outfit is a lot closer to Charlie's color pallette than any of her previous designs, or this really good breakdown by @/raeynbowboi about the symbolism of hearts in Hazbin Hotel and how they pertain to Angel Dust/his relationships! It's from awhile ago so some of the info is a tad outdated, but overall I do think the analysis holds up. Meanwhile, in Helluva Boss, Moxxie and Millie have basically the same color pallette and they were the most functional relationship in the entire show before before Fizzmodeus came along. Which, speaking of those two...

See, I made this diagram because, after I pointed out the similarities between Sera and Sir Pentious' headgear to my dad and asked him if those kinds of similarities were a valid form of analysis(because I am but a humble highschooler that doesn't know everything about media analysis, and also I felt like I was losing my mind-), my dad said that I should look at the creator's(Vivziepop's) other works to see if couples having similar motifs was a recurring theme. So obviously, I picked my favorite couple in either show and disected their designs for every little detail that could maybe possibly be an intentional parallel. And while some of it is kind of iffy, like Fizz's limbs being the same kind of blue as Ozzie's tufts could just be a way to show that Ozzie made them, or both of them having uh, two things sticking off of their head(that one's definitely a reach-), I think stuff like both of them having hearts as a recurring detail in their designs or having lITERALLY THE SAME EYE COLOR??? Are pretty good evidence that Viv/the Hellaverse design team tend to use visuals to signify characters relationships.

ALSO!!!! If the Fallen Angel Vaggie theory ends up being true, there could be some interesting parallels to draw between Chaggie and Sera/Sir Pentious! Something about like... demon royalty/random angel vs angel royalty/random demon. Could be used to draw parallels between how the two societies treat that kind of thing idk.

So, now that all the meta evidence is out of the way, we can get down to what really matters: would these two work as a couple? Do their personalities mesh well togther? And the answer to that is!

IM SORRY FOR USING THE GIF IT WAS A GOOD JOKE IN MY HEAD BUT TYPING THIS OUT IDK IF IT'S ACTUALLY FUNNY-

But in all seriousness, I don't actually know. We just... haven't seen enough of Sera to know for sure. In fact, this whole theory is based off of small details that definitely add up to SOMETHING, but could very well be pieces to some very different puzzles that I'm trying to shove together because somebody jokingly suggested that they would fit. Like, the parallels really COULD mean something, and it COULD have something to do with Sir Pentious having a crush on another character, but like. There could also be a million other answers to both of those questions, y'know? I also have a tendancy to make wild conspiracy theories about genuinely inconsequential details... I almost never talk about them publically, but still. Though I will say, based off of Sera's description in the leaks, I could definitely see a world where she bounces off of Sir Pentious pretty well. Her description in the leaks very much gave me uh... Isabela cover of Surface Pressure vibes, y'know? Shit that is- that is a weird way to describe that but most people on here have seen Encanto right? Y'all get it? And Sir Pentious is both a Victorian Gentleman Type and completely unhinged. Like... idk there's something there. I could maybe see it working. But at the end of the day, it's just too early to tell.

That being said I WILL be trying to pump out some fanart of these two before the actual show comes out and crushes my crackshipping dreams. Also their ship name is either SeraPentious or PentSera I can't decide.

Edit: Wait a second... SeraPent. Serpent. PUN!!!!!!!!!! Okay I think I'm going with SeraPent-

[miss-midnightt]

1, 2, and 3 for Tseng and Rufus?

1. Why do you like or dislike this character?

This, uh, this could take a while. These are both characters I absolutely adore, for several reasons.

First: Character design. I am hugely into character design and all of Rufus' belts and stuff make my brain happy. Also, his color palette is absolutely stunning. It contrasts against the darkness of Midgar, makes him stand out (white is bright; purple is the color of royalty), matches neatly with Darkstar/Dark Nation, and also contrasts him against the black suits that the Turks wear. For Tseng, I love his character design because pretty men with long hair and intense eyes are fun to draw. He also parallels Rufus nicely in terms of looks; both are very neat and put together, but Tseng has dark hair, eyes, and clothes, while Rufus has a more light toned palette).

Second: Their roles in the plot. Both of them have interesting roles in the plot. They are not main antagonists, yet are both very important. I won't elaborate much further because I already have. A lot.

Lastly (though I could go on and on and on): their personalities. These are both incredibly multifaceted characters; they both do bad things, but they don't deny it. They acknowledge it. Tseng knowingly drops the plate. And he certainly feels guilty about it (cutscene with Reno and Rude back at Shinra HQ). Rufus states openly he will control the world with fear. In AC, it is shown that he has changed and has tried to fix the wrongs he created. Additionally, I love characters with a more stern or ambitious disposition; I find them fascinating to analyze. Why are they doing that? What does this mean?

2. Favorite canon thing about this character?

Rufus: I adored all of his lines in Remake. His VA got them just right, and damn were they JUICY. Another little thing; him sending off Darkstar when her/his health got low. And of course a billion other things (I'm a nerd).

Tseng: His devotion to his colleagues. He may present a stern facade, but he cares. And that, to me, makes him so, so much more human.

3. Least favorite canon thing about this character?

Rufus: I wish we could have seen more of him, learned a bit more of how he was raised as a child. But I suppose that's a gripe about LACK of canon content, lol. Maybe about how he didn't seemingly react too upsetly when he was told that Tseng and Elena, two people he probably trusts/relies on most, were captured and tortured in AC? But it's a pretty flawed film, so...

Tseng: Almost total absence from Advent Children....It's hard to find dislikable canon things from him; I like him too much (and he didn't have a huge amount of screen time compared to other characters)!

[lander64]

Finished reading the Wings of Fire guide book! Gonna give some overall thoughts.

I went in knowing it was going to be a lot of information we already knew with a few new story’s here and there. So I wasn’t personally disappointed as others were. Pretty much all of the old information was expanded upon enough for it to still be interesting, however the new information is the absolute highlight of the guide.

For the most part, each section is roughly the same in quality. Thankfully, that quality was quite high. I’d rather read the main books ofc, but the guide is still good. However, there were a few weaker moments. The Sandwing section started out strong, but fell off by the end and the Rainwing section was pretty dull overall. I also wish there was less of a focus on the lives of royal dragons and more on the lives of the commoners. The Seawing section particularly suffers from this. Not that there weren’t good stories in there focused on royalty, the Mudwing section has a great one at the end, for instance.

The art is phenomenal. It’s absolute eye candy, even the small drawings in some of the stories are super cute. Id recommend going to look at some of the art even if you have no interest in the book itself.

Overall, I’d say that the guidebook is a stronger whole then the sum of it parts, but a high recommendation if you’re a WoF fan. If number ratings mean anything to you, then it’s a solid 7/10.

Under the read more is some specific details that I thought was interesting. Quite a few spoilers in there so be warned.

- Sepia is funny definitely a new favourite

- the Mudwing succession story was really good. I liked the expansion of Mudwing royalty it presented and It had a nice twist at the end

- Queen Coral sections are surprisingly funny, I loved reading the blurbs of her stories gave me a good chuckle

- the font used in Fin’s letter (as well as Fierceteeth’s later on in the book) was super hard to read for me. That’s probably because I read a scan on my phone screen, so I’ll see how it looks in the actual book

- Kinkajou’s story was, interesting. Makes me happy we didn’t get a book about her in arc 2, I cannot imagine myself still liking Kinkajou if we did tbh

- honestly the Rainwing section as a whole was pretty lacking for me. Really only the last bit with Queen Jackranda got me intrigued but not as much as other stories in other sections

- Mastermind interview was neat, but could of been better

- Despite being a hassle to read, the Fierceteeth letter was really cool. I hope we see more of the small village they’ve set up in future material

- Getting some more information on Burn’s weirdling collection was pretty neat. I like the confirmation that the wing seen there was a Silkwing’s. It’s pretty intriguing how just the wing washed up to shore, I would of thought it’d be parallel to how Luna arrived. But instead of being helped, this unfortunate Silkwing would of be murdered

- Unfortunately over half of the Sandwing section was taken up by Smolder’s diary of taking care of Flower, which I wasn’t interested in at all and only read the first bit before skipping. Shame cause the Sandwing section was shaping up to be my favourite part of the book

- Mink’s letter was cute

- Was expecting the Icewing section to only focus on royalty like the Seawing or Sandwing sections, but Caribou’s letter was a pleasant surprise

- Super cool how there’s an actual Skywing anthem that you can play. I’m not really a musician or anything of the sort, and I did admittedly skim through it, but still very cool

- Skywing section should of been renamed the Queen Scarlet section. Tailwind’s story was great and a real highlight of the guide, might even my favourite story

- I wish less of the Silkwing section was about the rules that Silkwings follow. I would of preferred more parts akin to the Queen Monarch message

- I wonder if the honey drop recipe is good, I’d try it myself but I don’t think I have the ingredients for it

- The list of the Hives was neat, it’s nice to have a little paragraph of information on each of them

- Book of Clearsight excerpts was cute, I could see a small book just detailing more of the future reading

- Leafwing’s detailing their favourite books was charming

- I’ve realised I don’t really have much to say about the Pantalian sections. They aren’t bad at all, I’m just not as invested in them

- Very happy the Scavenger section was so small. I don’t think I could of forced myself through that

- Favourite section was the Skywings, least favourite was Rainwings

[beifong-brainrot]

I suppose the colour theory discussion relies very strongly on personal preference (I personally find red/blue combinations incredibly jarring yet at the same time, a bit boring?)

And of backgrounds. Perhaps your art professor wouldn't be too hyped about combining orange and blue. But if I were, for example styling someone with a certain type of beauty (let's say clear spring), I would be remiss to not consider that colour combination.

I never did say red and blue were a bad combination. (I said they're not complimentary colours. That's a fact, not me being persnickety about colour palettes.). Look at the plethora of blue gay, red gay tropes lol it's clearly popular for a reason. I'm sorry if I implied that, for that was not my intention. It's certainly a tried and true combination.

This 'oversaturation' of Red/Blue is why Katara and Aang, as a duo are so interesting. As much as people act like they're the vanilla default 'hero gets the girl' type couple, they're really not?

I mean, the punky girl who steals from pirates? And the pacifist buddhist monk who is in touch with his feminine side? And they canonically commit eco terrorism together as a borderline date?

That's tremendously mouldbreaking for not just for a kids show, but even for many adult shows. We don't often see orange ans blue paired up, but if it is done so skillfully, it can create a stunning effect.

Not to sound rude, because I'm genuinely curious, why does Zuko and Katara's trauma get compared so much? And represented as if Zuko somehow 'got' Katara better than Aang.

I find it a bit of a callous and surface level comparison.

Katara and Zuko both suffered due to the fire Nation, that's true but you could say that about almost every character on the show.

Now, don't get me wrong, Zuko had an incredibly traumatic childhood. His mother leaving him in the hostile environment must've been terrifying ans unimaginably traumatic. His scarring? Indescribable. Horrific.

But Ursa came to hug him goodbye. Zuko didn't have to look upon the corpse of his parental figure. Zuko didn't have swathes of his culture (which, especially in the Avatarverse is tied incredibly to ones identity) wiped out.

While he didn't have much political power, as you say, he still reaped the benefits of not only being part of a Nation that subjugated almost half the world, but also being of said nation's royalty. Hell, he even went through with a raid that directly paralleled the raids that cost Katara her mother.

You can draw loose comparisons between the trauma of political machinations and the abject horror of genocide, but they are, at their core, loose. And a slippery slope to completely denying the trauma of a sole genocide survivor.

Especially when Katara and Aang's trauma surrounding violent loss is paralleled in one of the first episodes. This is a connection that Katara draws herself and they continue to understand each other better than anyone else on this front throughout the franchise.

Katara: Aang! I know you're upset and I know how hard it is to lose the people you love. I went through the same thing when I lost my mom. Monk Gyatso and the other airbenders may be gone, but you still have a family. Sokka and I! We're your family now!

Which both Katara and Aang being genocide survivors is a huge part of their characters. They both are the last surviving bender of their respective cultures, they both value items of their cultures and are heavily protective of their people's heritage.

Especially in these cases, they support one another in ways no one else quite can, because they understand each other on a level no one else can.

The Atla fandom stays ignoring genocide, despite the whole show being about genocide ig. I'm not accusing you of anything, dear. I'm just warning you that there is a very slippery, insidious slops here, and a shocking amount of people slide on down it. People forget that Katara is also a genocide survivor as well.

I will push (haha get it?) back on your claim of Zuko and Katara embodying the push and pull roles. The thing about Zuko and Katara is that they both push. You said it yourself, that they aren't complete opposites.

Zuko and Katara do not balance each other out, they feed off one another particularly one another's anger. You see this particularly in "Southern Raiders", Zuko stoking the fires of Katara's anger, because he thought that's what she needed. Though, in the end, even he admits that it wasn't.

Zuko: You were right about what Katara needed. Violence wasn't the answer. Aang: It never is.

Holding onto anger and pain can only take you so far until you burn out. This is why Zuko and Katara need other people in their lives that will help them balance out and "refuel". (Like even if you are shipping zutara, please, for the love of god acknowledge how ill they both are that's like the best part of their characters)

Side note, I find it really, really weird how people act like Aang was trying to control Katara. If anything, he was incredibly understanding. God forgive someone tries to give advice to someone they care about I guess.

Aang: I wasn't planning to. This is a journey you need to take. You need to face this man. But when you do, please don't choose revenge. Let your anger out, and then let it go. Forgive him. [..] Katara: Thanks for understanding, Aang. Yip-yip.

Once, again, Aang understands Katara here because he also felt a huge amount of anger due to what was done to his people.

They both understand one another's anger and usually help each other through it. In "Southern Raiders" the additional variable of Zuko intentionally riling Katara up is what had them butting heads.

I always thought Aang's alter ego of Kuzon paralleled Katara's Painted Lady better.

Zuko's Blue Spirit disguise acted as a shield and aide in the struggle of surviving. He used it to rob and exploit people. The only being he ever helped as the Blue Spirit was Appa, to my knowlege. His rescue of Aang was still, at the end of the day, a self serving attempt at getting the Avatar to his father before Zhao could.

Because you know, he was still in the depths of the indoctrination mines. That's the point of his character.

There are actually a lot of interesting parallels between Toph's two alter ego's (The Blind Bandit and the Runaway) and the Blue Spirit but no one ever wants to talk about Toph. (This was meant to be a Beifong blog why does everyone want to debate garbage atla meta)

In contrast, Aang and Katara's alter egos revolve around them learning about and helping members of the Fire Nation who were being harmed by it. Unlike Zuko's Blue Spirit being mostly a 'survival necessity', Kuzon and the Painted Lady are windows onto parts of the world (and their enemy) they usually didn't get to see.

Honestly. I don't even have the strength to touch the "Katara views Aang as a child" thing because it is just so. Incredibly wrong. That or Katara's flavour of motherliness is the same as those toxic boy moms on tiktok who are emotionally incestuous with their sons and get jealous at the very idea of him having a female friend. If this is what you think mother/child relationships are like I think you need to call CPS.

Girlie was possesive and jealous over him even in the Kyoshi Island episode. Are you serious.

Katara has been shown repetitevely to respect Aang, to value his companionship and advice.

Look, you seen like a smart, reasonable person. Most of your arguments are quite solid and I enjoyed picking them apart. But this one singular point, and I say this with full offence, is something so ridiculous and proven untrue by just watching the show.

The only reason I can even fathom people coming out with that garbage take is that Aang is significantly more childish in a lot of aspects than Katara. (It is important to note that Katara is more immature than Aang in certain aspects as well).

But this is actually an incredibly important part of their relationship. Belive it or not, Katar is a child. She is a 14 year old little girl who was foreced to grow up faster than she should've.

When she meets Aang, she gets to remember that she is, in fact, said child. This later does also extend to Sokka.

Aang acting like a child is important, because it reminds his companions that they are also children. Aang chooses to put on a smile and goof off because he recognises that his friends need someone to help them connect with that lost part of them. Aang's childishness isn't meant to be parented by Katara, it's meant for her to join in on, which she often does. This is the closest she gets to reclaiming her childhood and she clearly values it a lot.

I genuinely cannot believe we are still having this discussion in our lord's year of 2024.

I'm sorry for getting a bit heated at the last point there. I've just heard that argument repeated so many times already, I really don't have the strength to go around calmly debunking it everytime I see it.

However, it was nice to talk to you and see the opinion from "the other side of the isle". I also apreciate you being rather nice. It's a nice break from most Zutara shippers I interact with calling me braindead and telling me I have 'brain diarrhea' lol.

I can see the reason behind a lot of your points. And, I think I said this in my og post, but I really couldn't care less if you ship zutara. I just find it odd how much kataang dynamics (or dynamics of other characters) are injected into most opinions on zutara.

As for the Air Temple Island descriptions, the lovely @survivalove made this wonderful post about it:

Also, the Yin Yang is a little more than a peace sign btw. Especially with how it's connected to the Water Tribes in the show.

This is my pettier argument against the Zutara arguments but "red and blue are completementary colours" has always given me -10 hp everytime I saw it.

Motherfucker have you ever seen a colour wheel.

LOOK

Honestly the Red/Blue ships really get under my skin for some reason lmao. Probably because most of my passions include actually understanding colour theory lol.

Also that the whole opposites attract, Ying/Yang, Sun/Moon symbolism people often assign Zutara, while cute, doesn't really translate to the show well.

In atla, the companion to the moon isn't the sun, but the ocean. There's less of an emphasis on clashing and strife, but more on working together, using one another's strengths.

Push and Pull, the mantra of waterbending. Instead of purely being opposites that clash, there's a focus on working in tandem, despite their differences.

Also worth noting that this aspect of waterbender culture was built into Air Temple Island, the place Aang and Katara raised their kids. Along with several other references to the Water Tribe.

I'm not saying you can't apply the themes mentioned to your personal ships, but acting like the symbolism you injected into the characters was in the show to begin with is a bit silly.

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

Just read your France in Twisted Wonderland theory and I thought to inform you that there are a lot of French speaking African countries. So a lot of us start learning French from an earlier age

[Referencing this post (I think?)! Or maybe this one?]

Yes, I’m aware! I think it’s similar to how a lot of Canadians speak French (although I do believe there is a difference between Canadian French and French) due to how real world events influenced populations and their cultures.

I wonder if that’s also the case for Twisted Wonderland? 🤔 Like, Rook is the only “French” (in quotation marks because I don’t believe it had ever been referred to as such) speaking character, and he comes from the Sunset Savanna, which seems to draw inspiration from real world Africa. I wonder if Leona and Ruggie know some French too because of that parallel? Ruggie mentions knowing some basic phrases (in 10 languages?) due to his part time jobs in the service industry, and I think Leona might have to know some other languages as royalty/a potential diplomat for his country.

I don’t actually think any languages outside of animal languages have been specifically named (at least none that I can recall) 🤔 I wonder if that’s to avoid using real world languages to refer to languages in a fictional world. Calling Rook’s French “French” could cause some break in immersion since it calls into question why the language is called “French” when “France” theoretically does not exist in Twisted Wonderland.

[absolutepokemontrash]

I’m sorry, I meant obligatory beach episode with the entire hell kids timeline (Percy, Lyssa, Darius etc.) I read your second Father’s Day fic with all the kids and loved it so I wanted to ask, sorry for the confusion

Ah, I see that you’re the one four parallel universes ahead of me…

while I don’t have an idea for a full fic, I do have some ideas for what each kid would be doing!

Percy bolts straight into the water and makes some friends with some merchildren, they spend time collecting shells and being adorable. Levi nearly sinks to the bottom of the Devildom sea due to a “ITS TOO CUTE-“ heart attack.

Lyssa and Satan stay camped out on the beach, both of them are reading and just vibing in each other’s company. Though, Lyssa would eventually leave to help build a sandcastle.

Cane and Pepper first devour the food that was brought on the trip, then they flee the scene and get some inflatable boats and push off into the water, pretending to be pirates. Beel was invited to play the role of “terrifying sea monster who wants to flip the boat”, and he performed very well, 10/10

Arien decided they were too cool to spend time with their totally lame family, so they got one of those inflatable rafts and proceeded to float in the water and nap in it. (The little shit would have drifted out into the ocean and got kidnapped by pirates or something if it weren’t for Belphie noticing they were gone and sending Levi to go get them. And yes, Ari was an indignant brat about the whole situation and did not say thank you.)

Darius decides to commandeer one of the inflatable boats and starts a water fight with the twins and Venus. They all end up duelling with pool noodles. Until Diavolo came over and offered to be an opponent they could all work together to defeat. (Dia was attacked by pool noodles before he was even able to finish his sentence)

Tulsi is napping on the beach towels next to Barbatos, who is dutifully watching over everyone. Later, Tulsi wakes up and finds a pretty shell to give to Venus.

Circe is like her dad, not a big fan of the sea, so she sticks close to Solomon and practices drawing magical sigils in the sand.

The day ends with everyone packing up and heading to Diavolo’s beach house…

And then Percy offhandedly mentions that he’s engaged to Mer-Royalty while flashing a shiny engagement ring to the other kids.

[andiwriteordie]

Question on your & @messrsbyler’s atla au—would the party be living in the colonies??? To explain how they all know each other/are childhood friends??? Earth-benders & fire-benders living side-by-side, maybe the Byers have to hide their airbending (do we still have the air nomad massacre or no? Bc El’s a waterbender, right? And is she being trapped in ice or no?). Maybe the Sinclairs are descendants of a small waterbending sect that didn’t live at the poles, like the Swampbenders but not—culturally waterbenders but also culturally members of this Fire Nation colony in a formerly Earth Nation (but that was a long, long time ago) territory? Isolated within the community bc of this (ie the racism Lucas experiences in canon & Lucas on the Line but atla-ified ig)? (Also when did the war start for this au? The fire nation still has to attack, right? Are the Wheelers any kind if nobility/royalty, are we even really aiming to fill the roles of the show or just parallel (“we” lol sorry im invested in this but it’s 100% ur & messrsbyler’s au i was just Having Thoughts plz don’t mind me or feel obligated to answer)? Or are the main villains just Brenner & Henry, deviating from atla plot/villains entirely?)

every time someone asks me about atlagate i grow in power and the devil on my shoulder (*cough* nic *cough*) cackles maniacally tbh.

so, a caveat to alllllll of this is that i'm just pulling things out of thin air and building off of things nic and others send me too, so idk what nic is thinking for this nor do i have a true outline/world built for all of this. just vague ideas that i like to word vomit.

anyways! rori (/rotisserie5107) actually sent me an ask asking something that i think is a bit similar, ella (/nancysglock) wrote some beautiful stuff about lucas which i added onto here that might help out as well, and toy (/toystoryfan) asked also asked some questions here about what the party's childhood would look like!

that was a long winded way of saying, i think when it comes to setting i am imagining something more along the lines of the stranger things timeline (1980s) but set in the avatar world. so similar to how LoK is essentially the 1920s but in a world with bending, when i imagine what i'd write, it's a 1980s bending world! so i think things would probending would exist, we'd see inventions that utilize bending, we would have political turmoil related to issues of bending, etc. also like i told rori earlier lmfao, how that fits in with the true AtLA/LoK timeline is beyond me because uh... korra is water... el is water... i guess all the others in between them died real fucking quickly if we want el to be a reincarnation of folks like korra and aang LOL.

so, with that in mind, if i were writing this, it would more so follow the stranger things story itself but adapted into a world wherein bending exists. the catalyst for the story would be will's kidnapping by henry (who i have hc'd as a fellow airbender), and the kids would discover el (the avatar, who nic with their giant amazing big brain created a headcanon of how sick and incredible it would be if el didn't even realize what the avatar was or that she was special. she just knew that she could bend those four elements). obviously, things within the story would be adapted to draw on the avatar lore and things like that and create au, but i think when i'm imagining it i see the 4-5 part book/season arc that stranger things has created. (i say 4-5 bc i know canon is 5. but if i wrote it, bye bye s3, simply so i can have 4 books for the 4 elements lol.)

but that's what i love about aus so much because there absolutely is room to create an au where it's the stranger things characters dropped into the avatar storyline and there is just SOOOO much there!!! so much untouched potential!

[pandoratheprocrasticreator]

*swings bat a hornets nest* ok but like what DID odalia know about the day of unity? when alador told her to stop helping the emperor he was really vague about it like “oh no odalia were going to hurt ppl” like alador honey king literally told you everyone was going to die maybe be more urgent with your warning. even if odalia wanted to be “royalty” theres no point in that if theres no one to rule over and extort money from so she couldn’t have supported the plan if she knew it was going to kill everyone.

she and her husband both also have a sigil. i dont think we ever see hers but it doesn’t make any sense for her not to have one. she’s a reputable business woman who flaunts her membership in the oracle coven and did cool oracle magic in her custody battle with her husband. the government wouldn’t have allowed such a public figure to not have a sigil. she was only in on belos’s plan since escaping expulsion so even if belos would make an exception for an ally to not get a sigil (which he wouldn’t he hates all witches) odalia still would have been pressured into getting one years ago when she was finishing her education.

she very pointedly looked at her sigil when alador was telling her about the spell. she couldn’t have gotten it off after she found out about the day of unity bc it doesn’t seem like there’s a way to do that. if there was belos wouldn’t have freaked out that much when luz sigiled him in king’s tide. and again. belos wouldn’t allow that because he wants her and all the other witches to die. (and no she wasn’t doing illusion magic in that scene in COTH thats just a summoning spell weve seen other sigiled characters do it)

(not to mention if she didn’t have her sigil, then the show would be drawing a parallel between her and eda for being practitioners of wild magic. it would be an interesting parallel to see luz’s mom embrace her wild magic and use it regularly while amity’s mom hides that part of herself to fit into polite society. while eda’s wild magic helped her encourage luz to rebel against the system odalia’s wild magic would have made her try to force amity into the emperor’s coven, where she could practice the same magic as her mom did but in a legal way. however obviously the show isn’t doing that so there’s no reason for odalia to get special treatment from belos to not have a sigil. even less reason for her to know the full truth of the day of unity, something that even the coven heads didn’t know.)

speaking of the coven heads it seems they were the only ones that knew the day of unity was a “draining spell.” and the coven heads seemed to think the drained magic would bring them to paradise somehow. was odalia told the same thing? did she think her magic would be drained but its okay bc belos would reward her? did she think she would somehow be exempt from the spell so she (and her family) would keep their magic? if she thought her family would lose their magic then is that why she signed amity up for the emperor coven tryouts after she started doing business with belos? because when everyones magic is gone the other covens would be useless except for the emperors?

is it just like. the lifetime of brainwashing she went through as a resident of the boiling isles making her unwilling to question belos too hard? i know shes supposed to represent one of those irl billionaires that bury their heads in the sand and profit off the world burning down. but theres a difference between knowing youre making money off of poor ppl in your factories dying of preventable workplace injuries and knowing that literally tomorrow you and every person in your society will die. even if odalia didnt care about her husband or her kids she would still be personally affected. and if she knew that she would be killed literally the next day then she wouldn’t care about the money. so like. what did belos tell her?

[frostfour]

Hi @troutfur here. I'm sorry I didn't notice you'd posted more about your Frostfour patrician AU earlier. It's really good! I haven't stopped thinking about it. There's one aspect that I wanted to ask about but it slipped my mind until now. What have you thought about Brackenfur and Thornclaw? Bet they're having interesting lives in WindClan and RiverClan.

No worries at all! I've been sitting on this ask for a long while with no way of responding due to WIFI issues - it's safe to say there's no rush. Before I get into their respective lives after the move a little background information on what their identities in Thunderclan are.

With so many Augurs in one clan (which is a blessing in of itself) it is difficult for the siblings to assert themselves as individuals. They are still treated as the kitty royalty they are, with the added reverence of them being symbolic of clan unity but sharing a den with two Matriarchs... it's crowded. How they deal with the crowding shapes their lives after the move to an extent.

Thornpaw asserts himself as an Augur and lords his position over others with a higher then thou attitude, he is important and everyone within earshot is going to know about it. Brackenpaw choses to fade further into the background - he has a reserved personality and would rather have his siblings vie for prestige, falling back on being quietly obedient and not drawing attention.

With that little context out of the way, onto the brothers. Under a read more (hopefully) because this prompt has gotten very out of hand.

Brackenstripe - Windclan Augur Mate: Runningbrook, Kits: Honeypaw, Poppypaw, Smokepaw & Molepaw

So Brackenfur first; renamed to Brackenstripe mainly to differentiate to regular Brackenfur and also as a reference to the wonderfully dysfunctional mentorship he has with Graystripe in canon. Also -stripe has the same 'just some guy' energy that -fur has.

The Windclan and Thunderclan bond is strong when he finishes the first part of his training and moves into the moors and thus is welcomed into the fold from the clan at large. He is suddenly thrust into the spotlight upon arrival and has to deal with the whole clans attention. For the apprentices at the time Webpaw, Tawnypaw and Runningpaw it's an opportunity to increase their social standing. For the older cats in the clan he represents the unity that a Matriarch's litter of four usually indicates. Brackenpaw has absolutely no idea how to handle any of it since he was previously so over looked. His arc is essentially going from an incredible people pleaser to earning respect and not being bothered by all the attention.

His most notable connection is with Onewhisker though, who looks out for Brackenpaw and helps him settle into the moors. Barkface is often busy with Tallstar outside of training due to the high political tensions. Ashfoot and Deadfoot are also given the opportunity to try for a family, with Brackenpaw helping take the burden off of Ashfoot's duties. The other patricians are caught up with their own affairs and instead it's Onewhisker who steps up. Brackenpaw sees Onewhisker as an unofficial mentor/father figure as he grew up in the height of Onewhisker's friendly terms with Thunderclan - an interesting parallel to how Heathertail and Darktail are treated later down the line. When the Windclan civil war happens at the lake Brackenstripe is Onewhisker's loudest supporter. Honestly I could probably go on and on about just these two but for the sake of brevity I digress.

His legacy sticks out from his siblings as being the noble child not marred by drama. Brightheart has a streak of rebelliousness - her marriage controversial as was her stunt with the dogs. Thornclaw ultimately supported Tigerclan. Cinderstream is a constant point of contention between Thunderclan and Shadowclan. But Brackenstripe? He conforms and is rewarded for it. He is Onestar's most outspoken supporter in the civil war and is proven correct. Much like his mother before him and Moth Flight before her he has a litter of four kits with Runningbrook - nothing short of a blessing. While his siblings strayed in one way or another Brackenstripe did not waiver in the eyes of the Patrician's across the clans.

Thornclaw - Riverclan Augur Mate: None/Undecided, Kits: None/Undecided

Aaaand onto Thornclaw! No name changes necessary.

The Riverclan and Thunderclan relations on the other hand are hostile, heated after the death of Whiteclaw and the increased skirmishes over Sunningrocks. Patricians are family so to Mudfur and Leopardsun he is welcomed but the rest of Riverclan? He isn't trusted in the slightest. Thornpaw being the brat that he is does not take this change well - after all they know he is an Augur in the making, right? Maybe they just need to be reminded of that fact. Selling out his new clan is beneath that of an Augur. Needless to say that Thornpaw doesn't particularly do himself any favours in integrating into the community. Outside of the Augurs den the only cats that tolerate him in the beginning is Crookedstar and Silverstream. Even Mistyfoot and Stonefur struggle.

The Augurs den in Riverclan sure is something. It truly is just Mudfur on his last shred of patience while his two bratty kids squabble over everything. Leopardsun and Thornpaw start off entirely on the wrong foot but since they are both so proud they don't get over it easily. Honestly when I was deciding where the brothers would go the concept of Leopardsun and Thornclaw being close is what synched it. Leopardsun who is usually so ambitious and in control constantly ready to throw hands with a teenager she helps teach. It does evolve into genuine affection and friendly bickering which never ceases.

Yet the mix of having a huge ego, not the widest social circle and a change in home does make him feel really out of place. In Thunderclan everyone was more charitable towards his attitude and while no one is openly hostile to him, Thornpaw can read between the lines. Leaves a cat incredibly open to manipulation. The exact details are being figured out but essentially it leads to Leopardsun and now Thornclaw getting behind Tigerclan. As Thornclaw adjusts more into the clan, Riverclan as a whole is growing more radicalized. It's an injustice that Cinderstream never moved to Shadowclan as per the agreement.

How Tigerclan unfolds is still a huge WIP as is the leadership succession that unfolds afterwards but while Brackenstripe keeps his canon litter I'm unsure if Thornclaw will. He never struck me as a character to have a family. The current arcs struggle over a lack of connection to Starclan in Riverclan is fascinating would be easier to pull off way later if he doesn't have descendants of his own. Plus as matriarch any kits of Leopardsun would be preferred.

So in summary: Thornclaw goes from having a wild sense of superiority and elitism which comes to a head with Tigerclan. During the fallout he is forced into self reflection and learns to have a better control on his own ego (but still not perfect in the slightest). He still keeps his rough edges and stubbornness. And I undo the greatest injustice his character ever got: Thornclaw will never retire.

That's the overview so far! If anyone has read this far I commend you - the length got very out of hand.

[clawsnoir]

meta-anon here and oh I'm glad my long asks weren't annoying! discussing meta and films like this is v interesting imo so I'm happy that I wasn't being ...too much afskdkkd! as for the analysis ask I mentioned...well it's quite long so uh fair warning for that, but here it is:

(Also uh tumblr kept glitching out on me while writing this so I hope you can see the full thing, there should be like 4 paragraphs in this ask?)

"it reeks of racism that the fandom can somehow manage to draw all these parallels between batman and the riddler while selina is left out of the conversation completely." god yeah...while I understand that the parallels between Batman and riddler are very important for the movie's themes (since like you said it's a dark mirror situation) and analyzing how intricately their parallels as foils are implemented is interesting and useful and the whole movie also just more or less shoves it in the viewers face how important these parallels are to the story and to Bruce's character arc...it's also... really upsetting? That there aren't really many meta posts on how Selina comes into play there?

Because she is a foil to Bruce, too (and also to Edward, for that matter) - except instead of representing his darkness and what kind of monster he could become if he doesn't catch himself from falling into that abyss, Selina represents positive traits he needs to adapt as well as lessons he needs to learn about Gotham's social structure and system and his own position in it, and their parallels and differences are just as important to the plot! Selina and Bruce are both orphans. They're both 'city royalty' in a way, with Bruce being called Gotham's prince multiple times, being part of Gotham's upper class 'nobility' and with Selina as Falcone's daughter essentially being the princess of Gotham's underworld. Both Selina and Bruce lost their parents because of Falcone- Selina directly and Bruce metaphorically (loosing faith in his father because of what Falcone claimed about him) or..potentially directly, too, if his parents death was a hit ordered by Falcone. But while Bruce doesn't care about anyone - not even himself - doesn't see the victims, only the perpetrators and only lives to fulfill his need for vengeance, Selina cares so much about people, about strays and victims, about those that are downtrodden and forgotten, about those that fall through the cracks, about...well, about the 'poor stray cats' of Gotham. Sure, Selina doesn't care about the city as a whole - not in the way Bruce does -but she cares about the individual people in it, the victims, the ones that no one else cares about, and that's something Bruce had to learn from her (and he did, in the end!). Selina shows Bruce that it's ok to care for people, that it's ok to be vulnerable (just look at the scene where she gently caresses his cheek and he just. melts into it! When most other times in the movie he's just stoic and distant), she gives him something to care about and a reason to do what he does that isn't just selfish (by wanting to protect her instead of just punishing others). And when she herself starts getting consumed by pain, trauma and vengeance, she also acts as a mirror to him, showing him how this want for vengeance is painful, hurtful, how it twists people into something worse. And seeing this gives him the incentive to actively think about it, and to stop her from going down that path of vengeance just like he later learns to stop himself, too. And I've seen a lot of people say that he should've just let her have her revenge but that would be so counter productive to the themes of the story and to both Bruce and Selina's characters? Bruce's whole thing is that he hates lethal violence - for now just because of his trauma and because he's afraid that if he kills once he will kill again, but later once he's learned to care more, and to understand that morality isn't so black and white and to see the reasons behind why people become criminals instead of just seeing them as one dimensional monsters, he likely also won't kill because it would take away the criminals/villains chance to heal their scars and become better people - and him meeting Selina and stopping her from killing Falcone is an important step in this character development (a development he's heading towards as evidenced by his ending monologue!). Plus, Selina going down a dark path of vengeance but being stopped by Bruce, being saved from loosing herself in it, being saved before she can become something darker, is also a parallel to how Bruce's actions as Batman directly caused Edward to jump over that edge, to decide that he will actively loose himself in vengeance and become something vile and horrible. it was too late for Bruce to save Edward from letting his trauma twist him into a murderer - so it's even more important that Bruce managed to be there for Selina just in time to save her. (not that Selina ever would've gone to the horrible lengths of what Edward does in the movie ofc but it still works as a parallel)

But then she isn't just a foil to Bruce, but also to Edward - they're both forgotten children of Gotham, people nobody 'saw' or cared about, who grew up in poverty and horrible circumstances (also: parallel of Edward saying how he grew up watching other children become drug addicts to cope with their trauma, while Selina's circumstances force her to work for the people that sell those same drugs), seeing the worst the city had to offer and directly witnessing the horror and suffering the corrupt system caused. and while she might disagree with his methods she agrees with his motives, she agrees with his disdain for the corruption and the privileged rich people that ruined the city, with how to the people in the upper class the poor 'nobodies' (like her, Annika and Edward, for that matter) are invisible, how horrible things could happen to them (like what happened to Annika and the kids at the orphanage) and how nobody would care or even notice. She even shares his disdain or hatred for Bruce Wayne (and..they also share a love for Batman, actually). They parallel eachother when Selina wants to kill Falcone by shooting him but gets stopped by Batman, only for Edward to shoot Falcone right after. But while Edward chooses to let himself stay and simmer in his trauma, gets consumed by it and only lives for his selfish need for vengeance, not caring about the victims or consequences (like Bruce!) , Selina cares about others - about a limited circle of people, yes, but she cares - she chooses to try and escape her trauma, to look for a better life elsewhere. And she does escape the circle of violence that Edward lost himself in, because Bruce saved her by stopping her from killing Falcone, just like Selina saves Bruce and helps him escape the cycle of violence, too, before it can consume him. And these parallels between Selina and Edward existing is important too, because Selina agreeing with (parts of) his motivations is supposed to show that those parts - the whole 'the rich and privileged don't see the poor and disadvantaged, they don't care about them and cause them to suffer for the sake of their own greed' thing - aren't wrong, and that he's not a villain because of these beliefs but because of his methods and selfish need for violence (and as is pointed out in the deleted scene, the reason why he does what he does isn't even his political motives, it's his selfish want for payback and attention)...which is a very important parallel to exist because otherwise the film could easily come off as vilifying the points about corruption and systemic neglect of poor people and outcasts. So Selina , as someone who is clearly framed as a good person, reiterating that the points themselves are valid even if the methods aren't and showing Bruce the issues his privileged world view and his behavior cause, is extremely important for the themes of the story as well as for character development.

and in the end all three of them are foils to eachother and each represent different ways of dealing with trauma - Selina as looking for a better future away from everything, trying to heal the scars that trauma left by leaving everything behind, Edward as getting stuck in the past and letting trauma become a festering wound and Bruce as a middle ground, starting out fixated on the past, learning to look for a brighter future, and ending up staying in the present to help others heal - and it's such a shame that fandom just ignores Selina because she's clearly so important for the story at large as well as the part she plays in that whole dynamic in that way... and I've got more thoughts about her, especially her relationship with Annika and how that plays into the themes as well, but this is already such a long ask ahhsbsbd

(oh but also: wanted to mention that what you said about Bruce and edward in the interrogation scene essentially just being "lost little boys throwing tantrums at eachother" was a really good point! they're both so extremely childish in their behavior, whining, yelling, throwing tantrums - it's clear that neither of them ever really grew up emotionally and imo it's funny how that kind of is also reflected in their character design because they both keep wearing clothes that look way too big for them, as if they're kids wearing their parents wardrobe to cosplay as adults...so it's interesting how out of the three orphans Selina is the most emotionally mature, too?)

But yeah uh thanks for indulging me and letting me ramble my meta thoughts at you! 💕

talk that omg!!! 🗣️📢

I don't really have anything to add, I agree with most of this. I would love to hear your thoughts on Annika and Selina because the handling of that specific plot point is actually one of the few legitimate grievances I have with the film. I haven't spoken about it much on here, but suffice to say I was not a fan and it could have handled better.

thank you for sharing your analysis with me, I didn't feel you were rambling at all - if you ever get the urge to meta again please share ❤️