#the patriarchy is NOT women. it's men hurting other men.

[waddlesizsleepy]

someone tagged one of my posts with "misandry"

out. out now. catch this block. out of my sight.

[userautumn]

"not all men" but not in a men's rights way, in a "it's important to remember that men aren't the only perpetrators of cruelty, abuse, and evil and that subconsciously or consciously training yourself to view men as inherently evil and everyone else as inherently safe inadvertently puts you in a position where you're both vulnerable to attack or harm from people you otherwise wouldn't suspect, AND causes you to limit the number of allies you might have in a time of need" kind of way.

[tariah23]

Apparently, BM are complaining about the new color purple movie “depicting BM in a negative light,” and are mad about Celie and Shug kissing (they did more than that in the novel and they also kissed in the original film, are these people stupid) and I-

[sundancefemme]

i cannot believe this has to be said. men are not the primary victims of a system that oppresses women in order to advance the social power of men.

[trans-estinien]

people really love to conveniently forget trans men exist when they talk about feminism. or if they dont they make us out as also part of the problem as if we somehow are able to have the same amount of privilege as cis men. absolutely wild

[baravaggio]

re: the masculinity construct thing, especially from an anthropological perspective—french anthropologist emile durkheim did a study about why middle-class, white, protestant men were more likely to commit suicide than any other social group & it yielded fascinating results about the way masculine socialization (amongst protestant cultures especially) lends itself to isolation and loneliness.

and yet MRAs and other people focusing on the woes of masculinity never seem to bring that up, as though they're ashamed to admit that they've been wrong this whole time, or that perhaps moreso that they're ashamed to acknowledge that everyone else was right.

that's really interesting! I found it very odd how the screenshots I posted were the extent to which anthropological findings were discussed in the episode because we're clearly missing out on a lot of interesting discussion about all the racial and cultural differences in the way men are socialized. can't tackle everything in a 2 hr long podcast episode obviously...but honestly, this is the deepest I've heard anyone interviewed on the topic on a mainstream media platform get to discussing the emotional and relational stunting of patriarchal socialization, so it was frustrating lol

another point that was brought up was that women seem to have a more "diverse portfolio" (their words) than men do in terms of their ability to flexibly self-define, which also touches on something I find fascinating about this whole thing - I think you're right that there's an aspect of shame that comes with realizing you're not emotionally or socially equipped to address the limitations of your socially-prescribed gender role, one thing the MRAs miss is that this is something that marginalized groups have to actively realize and contend with, and that this "diversification" of self-definition and meaning is something we have to choose to pursue, get creative with, etc....but this requires you to acknowledge the root of the problem and name it, which can be incredibly painful work, especially if you're angry and there's plenty of people out there ready to validate your impulse to live in that feeling 🤷🏻‍♀️

[mothman-dyke]

Man-allied feminists truly out here like "when u say u hate men that hurts marginalized men too" as if marginalized men do not regularly use make use of their privileged status under patriarchy (which they do experience regardless of if they're oppressed in other ways) to enact violence on women lol. Ik I'm not saying anything new, just truly mind boggled and tired of the hoops we jumping through to eliminate any kind of feminist Convo or analysis of how patriarchy functions...

[telepathicfeline]

You all do know that there’s a middle ground between “men are inherently evil, society has nothing to do with it” and “men aren’t at fault for their actions, they are hurt just as much (if not more) by patriarchy than women?”

[the-13th-rose]

Yeah I was gonna reblog that post about how kids are a huge commitment and it shouldn't be seen as the default to make that decision because you can't just change your mind later

Then I looked and the blog was like "actually oppressed men are shit too and anyone who argues against gender essentialism is a patriarchy-supporting coward" and I ran so fast

[karmaphone]

this is beyond satire at this point

[thatfeyboy]

I think a big reason trans men do not appear in media as often as other queer identities, as well as historical erasure to a point, is because it goes against many women's experience with challenging bigotry. I cannot tell you how many pieces of media exist with "girl dresses as boy to get Privilege or Respect she wasn't given before, but has to reveal she is A Woman by the end as she has to prove women can do The Thing TM too and it's more 'honest' to her identity'". With a lot of trans masc/man historical figures there is constant fighting over whether it was really a women fighting the patriarchy and not a guy struggling with being trans. There is a book about "female husbands and the women that love them" for Christ's sake. We are constantly interpreted as on the border of being super hurt/proactive women for the sake of that class's conscience, and anything else is "taking away" from women's more important issues, supposedly. I'm just tired of all afab people having trouble with their identity being funneled into the "women good, patriarchy/men bad" pipeline or else. It feels like me talking about being a man, even in a trans context, is unacceptable because it *might affect a women at some point

[unforth]

Y'all have got to stop virulently hating men. Like, I'm sorry, I fucking hate the patriarchy too, but the patriarchy isn't just men and saying it is just exculpates complicit women. I am the mother of a young boy, and I look at this precious, empathetic 8 year old boy I'm raising and I don't know where online is safe for him. Places like this will say he's evil just for his gender, and other places will say "we'll be your friend if you hate with us," and still others will radicalize him in other ways. Where is he supposed to go? Why are we saying the radicalization is the fault of the kids just trying to find a place to hang?

Like this is seriously getting urgent. You have got to fucking stop conflating the patriarchy and men. 53% percent of white women voted for Trump. Men aren't the problem. White supremacy and Christian patriarchal structures are two examples of patriarchy-reinforcing structures that aren't solely couched in maleness. Men aren't the problem, and pretending they are drives more men into more welcoming extremist spaces and also ignores all the parts of this that are forwarded by people who aren't men.

What I see happening all over is scared, depressed, lonely people looking for someone they're allowed to hate automatically, unquestioningly - someone they're allowed to place all the blame on. Fascism says people of color, non-Christian people, queer people, etc., are the ones they're allowed to hate.

And way too many of yall answer that no, it's leftist to hate men instead. You are doing *the exact same thing they are.*

Fucking knock it off.

The answer is we're not supposed to hate anyone automatically based on their immutable personal characteristics. Hate the specific people who've hurt you. Hate the self-reinforcing systems that let them get away with hurting you. Hate the strangers who prop up those systems. Hate the fascists. Hell knows I hate Donald Trump, but it's not because he's a man, it's because he's a piece of shit.

Hate the pieces of shit, not the gender.

But don't hate men just because they're men. That's unhelpful, stupid, insane, and entirely counterproductive. Fucking. Stop.

[trans-androgyne]

I want there to be fewer MRAs. Do you want that too? Do you want to know what helps us get there, from a feminist perspective?

You may not like my answer: acknowledge that sexism can affect men. Recognize that, although the patriarchy generally privileges men, they are also subject to restrictive gender roles that are harmful to them (shunning all things “feminine,” not showing emotions, being protectors/strong, never admitting being victims of SA/IPV, having to “earn” their manhood, etc.).

Give young men a place other than the right-wing manosphere to be heard about the issues they experience. If these grifters are telling them “only we understand how hard it is to be a man, the left hates you for your gender” and they look to the left and see “men claiming they have ‘problems’ are losers who just hate women, all men are trash,” do you think they’re going to be drawn towards or away from feminism?

Before you leave an angry response: no, this does not mean to center men instead of women in feminism, it just means including them at all. No, it is not “coddling” men to treat them with human dignity, you can and should continue to hold them (and every other gender) responsible for unpacking sexist beliefs. No, this does not mean it is every individual woman’s and feminist’s responsibility to prioritize men’s issues, it just means at the least not shutting them down when they do speak up about sexism. No, it is not “not all men-ing” to point out that “men are trash” sentiments hurt the feminist movement rather than helping it. Ask questions before you make accusations on this post, please. I have been abused by men too, I get it, this isn’t easy to hear.

[gatorpond]

"transandrophobia isn't real bc men aren't oppressed for being men, only for other marginalizations they face"

okay well i am a brown disabled trans masc person and i'm telling you i DO experience oppression on the basic of being what ppl perceive as me "being a man."

what is it when Black men are treated like violent, scary criminals? it's racism, yes, but it's also a specific form of racism that applies especially to Black MEN.

what is it when Indigenous men are expected to be "noble s*vages" in a way that is distinct from the way Indigenous women and nonbinary ppl are categorized?

what is it when disabled men are explicitly harmed for being weak or "not real men?" what is it called? is it JUST ableism? if so, why does gender continuously play a part in the harm?

what is it when trans men are assaulted or killed for not being "man enough?" what do we get to call transphobia that we, specifically, face for being masculine?

what about my fellow Black and brown trans dudes who hesitated to transition for fear of being fucking killed by cops? or are they just imagining it too?

why is it that when WE acknowledge our pain and oppression, we're suddenly just men and apparently aren't smart enough to know our own experiences? why do you get to tell me these things aren't real?

y'all will really talk about how patriarchy hurts everyone and then turn around and tell afab ppl whose genders you think are too privileged to sit down and be quiet. as if we didn't hear that from everyone else in our lives since birth. as if this isn't aimed at us SPECIFICALLY bc we're not the group YOU think deserves safety and respect. fuck you.

[tleavemealone]

Couldn't help but notice that OP doesn't have their full residential address in their bio? There's even a rumour that they shut (and even lock!) their doors sometimes! This signals to the public that society doesn't expect them to behave themselves. It is directly pro-crime. A society dedicated to ending crime would demand that everyone is safe from crime even when nobody has doors that lock.

OP and others like them have no faith that society can end crime. They do not think we can build a world without crime. They cannot even imagine the possibility. They think that crime is natural and unchangeable. They think we can only mitigate crime, not get rid of it.

They can imagine a society where people lock their doors and keep their personal info private for safety reasons. They cannot imagine a society where there is no danger of crime without these precautions.

the idea that restrooms, locker rooms, etc need to be single-sex spaces in order for women to be safe is patriarchy's way of signalling to men & boys that society doesn't expect them to behave themselves around women. it is directly antifeminist. it would be antifeminist even if trans people did not exist. a feminist society would demand that women should be safe in all spaces even when there are men there.

[thymechaos]

i just can't believe that oda fucking create sanji, a stereotypical ladies man who simps to an embarrassing degree for women while having his hackles comically raised around everyone he perceives as a man - and most notably butting heads with the more obvious ~manly man~ of the crew. haha, classic anime running gag, the kind that gets obnoxious at times but still makes you laugh.

AND THEN, like a billion chapters later, motherfucker steeples his fingers and goes "soooooooo... what makes a person Like That?"

and the answer is that he grew up in fucking Toxic Masculinity, The Kingdom. the answer is that he was always Different, in a way other guys instinctively perceived as weak, and that made him the target of visceral scorn and violence. the answer is that he was sensitive, sweet, caring, nurturing - feminine-coded traits which are only valued by patriarchy insofar that they're performed by women in service of men. the answer is that in a kingdom comprised almost entirely by violent men, the only ones who were ever kind to him, the only safety he ever had, were a girl and a woman.

so cooking is for women and servants, it makes you less of a man. only women will ever really value you for your passions and dreams. women are also actively hurt by the way the world works, they are unsafe unless they comply with men's violence, and you have to protect them.

(men will always know what you are, and they will hurt you if you let them.)

and even after he leaves... at baratie he is cherished and respected, but even that is an extremely masculine environment. we don't talk about our feelings, we don't let our guard down, the only love is tough love. when he tries to express his artistry and express himself through his cooking, rather than just filling orders and making money, he gets mocked.

so here is a man who will not raise a hand to a woman, because he rejects the masculinity he was raised with and refuses to become yet another man subjecting women to violence. he is desperate for women's attention and affection because it's SAFE, it's the only kind he can trust. other men are potential threats and must be treated as such. he must at all times be snarky, tough, Not Feminine, because to be perceived otherwise is to be powerless, to be hurt.

like y'all. the queer coding of it all? the overtly feminist themes? the active rejection of toxic masculinity and the way it's shown to be directly tied to imperialism? what the fuck.