#the only thing i fictionally condone is murder because i use it to cope with anger

[allthingswhumpyandangsty]

"guys I do not condone any of this in real life" "this is fiction" "consent is key. this is only fiction" "murder is bad irl" — I wish fanfic authors didn't feel like they had to clarify this in author's notes or else they might be accused of being abusers or worse (I admit that such disclaimers are also something I personally use for my own stuff because I feel like I had to make it clear). like... people used to not care if an author wrote dead dove fics because people used to understand that ao3 fics are not a reflection of someone's in real life views or morality in any way. people used to understand that fanfics mean what they mean; fan fiction. none of it is real. maybe it's purity culture that normalizes witch hunt and censorship in the past couple years, and therefore authors feel like they have to clarify that just because they write about violence or noncon stuff doesn't mean they're murderers or sex offenders in real life. and I think it sucks that these things (purity and cancel culture?) have made authors feel like they have to apologize for the art they created instead of being proud of their hard work and all the dedication they put into creating these art. artists should not have to feel like they have to apologize for creating art that isn't all rainbow and sunshine. artists should not have to be made to feel ashamed of their own art if it's not all rainbow and sunshine.

I don’t agree with the “you can write noncon and dark fics as long as you make sure your readers get the message that these things are bad” or “you can write noncon and dark fics if it’s your way of coping with your trauma” take either. because writers do not owe you anything. the message writers want to send to their readers — whatever that message may be, if there’s any message or moral of the story for readers to take from the stories at all — is none of your business. why writers write what they write is none of your business. remember “don’t like don’t read”. no one forces you to read anything you don’t like. dark and noncon fics are a form of creative writing and creative writing is a form of art. you can’t pressure artists into creating art that “fit your moral compass” nor can you apply your own moral compass to artists to determine if they can create dark art or not, if their reasoning behind creating dark art passes your moral compass. like… what artists create and why artists create are none of your business. and you don’t get to shame artists for creating art that you hate / art that disgusts you. what you can do is ignore the art because it clearly was not made for you and that’s okay. what isn’t okay is you harassing artists because you don’t like the things they created.

writers, embrace and be proud of your works. as long as all the trigger warnings are tagged properly, you have nothing to apologize for.

[tsbs-ship-hate-confessions]

Honest to God there is nothing more hypocritical of a bunch of whiny proshippers complaining about hate

yet preach free speech as long as they get to jerk off to kids getting fucked by their parents.

The hypocrisy is appalling.

'oh oh proshipping doesn't mean that stuff anymore, we're Clearly anti censorship oh oh the horrors of being called a creep for making celestialcest smut and giggling about siblings diddling each other. but we totally don't glorify dark topics why would you say such a thing'

like pick a fucking struggle. deal with the consequences of your actions. None of this is okay.

And mind you, this is coming from someone who is a major proponent of dark fiction. people should get to write whatever fucked up shit they want to. coping, venting, idc the reason

but you cannot honest to God be stupid enough to assume you're not a walking red flag. No one owes you trust that you're 'doing it for the right reasons' or 'don't support the morally stripped content' just like how you don't have to owe anyone an explanation. That street goes both ways

It's even stupider, when these fucks are all like 'u should clearly know I don't condone this'. I'm sorry, are we all a hivemind now? Are we above communication? It literally cost nothing to add a note of 'hey btw I think this shit isn't okay in case you can't read the room'. if ppl decide to assume bad faith after that then that's on them. but being a fucking mule about it? really? thought we were supposed to be adults here

speaking of which

"Children shouldn't be reading this anyway, My audience is smarter than that" ok thanks for infatizing and being ablest. nothing says fun like attempting to grow and try new things regardless of learning disabilities. or do you think we all roll over and die before highschool?

Also are we gonna brush past the part where the sun and moon show is literally made with kids in mind? Why again are we so desperate for smut over a show literally built around found family? 'everyone here is so immature' yeah bud, it takes one to know one. we were all kids. all of us were the newbies of the internet at one point. I ain't saying ya gotta hold anyone's hand or babysit but is throwing a hissy fit over finding spiders in a jar labeled spider the hill you really wanna die on? if you don't like it, leave

you literally preach that same shit yet seldomly follow your own advice.

Actually, let's go a step further: you're not welcomed here anymore than the gore anons are

P.S.

The reason why murder and gore is more acceptable than pedophilia smut is because one of these attracts actual predators. Porn is still porn at the end of the day, whether it's video or a picture, or words. and if it's on a screen it will fuck your head up the same way you can't have just one cigaret. it's always 'one more can't hurt' until it's an addiction you cannot escape from. And once someone is in that cycle, it gets worse. because soon the same thing that got rocks off doesn't work anymore. so then you find something stronger to get that high. then you have to find another stronger way to get that same effect

And that is exactly how convicted pedophiles go from using fictional kiddy porn to actual csem. There is actual fucking evidence for this shit with neurobiology and psychology to back it up

TL;DR violent video games don't create serial killers because people can only have a dopamine addiction. video game addiction is like sugar addiction Porn however can most definitely create pedophiles and rapist because of the involvement of dopamine, oxytocin, norepinephrine, vasopressin. porn addiction is like meth or heroin

These 2 are Not remotely comparable to the other 2

ALL, actions have consequences. It does not matter if you are a celebrity, or a fic author with 3 views. You are not an exception, and you feed the machine that gets kids groomed, trafficked, and even killed when you choose to sexualize and normalize pedophilia and incest.

So if you're getting shamed for getting giddy over shipping shit like Killcode and Bloodmoon or Sun and Dazzle. maybe you should think long and hard about why that is.

This is so much bigger than fighting over 'making dolls kiss'.

Get the fuck out of a fandom filled with kids before you get someone hurt

-

[catgirl-catboy]

"I dont support it in real life!"

Then why write about it? If for coping purposes, why post it online for others (especially actual predators) to see and consume? Then why portray those things in a positive light instead of condemning them?And you're seriously going to tell me that just because as an adult you want to see a fictional minor (that mind you, is usually designed to resemble an actual child) depicted in sexual situations doesn't mean you don't share that same view concerning children in real life? You find fictional minors attractive but not real ones? Why does the line between finding someone who is (and usually also looks like) a child sexually attractive get drawn at whether the child is real or not? I'm not calling anyone pedophiles, but if the shoe fits... And also no, I am not talking about 18 y/os finding 17 y/os attractive. Use your brain. Creating content of underaged characters is still questionable regardless of age, however.

Then why write about it? Because I want to. Why I want to is a very personal question.

If for coping purposes, why post it online for others (especially actual predators) to see and consume?

To get feedback of my writing, which is a social activity! If your logic is that a predator might enjoy something, then there's no ethical way to create.

And you're seriously going to tell me that just because as an adult you want to see a fictional minor (that mind you, is usually designed to resemble an actual child) depicted in sexual situations doesn't mean you don't share that same view concerning children in real life?

I don't read smut. I barely write smut. This is an unfounded assumption. Also, that is using the slippery slope fallacy. There are many things in fiction I write about that I don't condone in real life, such as murder, abuse, graphic bodily harm, and child endangerment.

The assumption that people condone shit they read and write about is kind of weird to me, mate.

You find fictional minors attractive but not real ones?

Yes, even though I've only had a handful of underage fictional crushes since I've turned 18. (Miu Iruma, currently.)

In 90% of cases, teenaged fictional characters look, are voiced by, and act like adults. The narrative treats them as adults. If a character's age isn't directly relevant to the plot, why care about it?

Why does the line between finding someone who is (and usually also looks like) a child sexually attractive get drawn at whether the child is real or not?

A very good question! The answer is because a real child is harmed, while a fictional one isn't. Paedophilia isn't bad due to the fact its gross (and I do find it gross.), its bad because someone gets hurt!

The only time fictional characters get hurt, is when we authors/readers IMAGINE them getting hurt. All harm done is imaginary.

Furthermore, I really dislike you using 'looks like a child' here. Thats body shaming, since there is a large portion of adults that happen to look like children. A lot of disabled people are also infantilized for similar reasons. Looks have nothing to do with the morality of an act.

Creating content of underaged characters is still questionable regardless of age, however.

Here are my ao3 warnings. My ao3 is SHSL_Angstlord if you'd like to make sure I'm not lying. When you accuse someone of being a predator, the burden of proof is on you to provide actual evidence.

[toh-proship-positivity]

#CharminglyProBelos an event by and for Belos fans!

Welcome to the #CharminglyProBelos event! An all year round event for the TOH fandom and more specifically Belos fans. What is this event you may ask: A hastag for Belos fans to let loose and post as they want, post all the dark topics you can think off, do you want to post about Empgold? Bellector, Philuz or Belos horribly torturing someone? This is the event for you! Any and all Belos art is welcome regardless of subject or content. Some examples of what is allowed: Any and all ship content, doesn't matter what the ship is violence gore murder any and all dark or what is deemed problematic themes pretty much good Belos stuff (reformed aus, good uncle aus you name it) edits videos crafts nothing is off the table, go buck wild! Why is this event?: Sadly many fans for some reason do not understand that liking a fictional villain does not mean you agree or condone with their actions or want to see it happen in real life. This goes for fiction in general, there are many bad things in fiction, murder, torture, people being violently punched to a bloody pulp, drugs, alcohol you name it. However just because people enjoy dark themes in fiction does not mean they think this is okay in real life. We do not stand or tollerate any kind of harassment, bullying doxxing or sending death threats. This behaviour is not okay not even from other Belos fans, please do notify me of such behaviour if it does happen, there is an alternative hashtag for only clean Belos content so if people don't want to see the nittygritty then that hashtag is for them. Rules, yes there are a few: - Please make sure anything is in line with Tumblr's/Twitter's Guidelines, as much as I'm not a fan of it myself but it can't be helped. We don't want anyone to get their socials nuked, for those seeking to really post the hard stuff, Bluesky, Aethy and Baraag are places to do that. If anyone else knows other sites then let me know so I can add them. - Please tag everything accordingly! Do not censor trigger warnings, this isn't tiktok, censoring things isn't going to get filtered out so if your work includes gore please make sure to tag it for that, does it contain blood? tag it for blood, violence? tag it for violence etc etc. I could be mistaken so please do correct me on what is the most preffered/used tag for content/trigger warnings! - Do NOT use this hastag to spread hate or negativity, if you don't like problematic content, or don't like Belos that's fine. Just block this tag and if you see someone posting in the wrong tag just point them to this tag. - If you are an anti or anti supporter, do not interact with this tag at all, you don't like ANY problematic (including but not limited to: gore, murder, violence, etc) content that's fine, this is not for you. Again there is an alternative hastag for only strictly unproblematic Belos content use that one if dark themes aren't your thing. Remember: Liking villains isn't a crime, liking dark fiction isn't a crime, liking dark themes isn't a crime. You are not a bad person for enjoying any of this regardless if it's to cope or just to explore taboo topics, this is a safe space.

[galacticskull]

While consensual non-con is a thing, I rarely see it myself. Since both writers and readers know what they're getting into, they may not see the point in including it. And/or since it's consensual, it's not rape. Some simply enjoy dark content, some use it as a coping mechanism for their trauma. And sometimes it's a mix of both.

This wasn't mentioned, but I feel it's similar enough to be brought up. Dub-con (dubious consent) is coercion via threats/blackmail, pressuring or promising some kind of reward. I would also include drugs and alcohol. If they wouldnt agree to it sober, being intoxicated doesn't count.

If it's not 100% consensual between all parties involved, it's rape. Period. However there's nothing wrong in consuming fictional works about it, because it's fictional.

It only becomes a problem when

The author neglects to tag it properly, albeit that's rare nowadays.

People trying to use fiction to justify a horrible crime.

Suggesting anyone who writes or reads stuff like this is pro-rape, which is just isn't true.

James Patterson made a name for himself by writing murder mysteries. I bet my bottom dollar that he doesn't condone murder. Same principle applies to kinks.

Anyway, that's just my two cents on the matter. Hope this helps :)

I’m curious, so please don’t take this the wrong way, but what exactly about con-non makes you want to write it? Do you enjoy it as a kink or simply like writing it? Also, what separates non-con from actual rape, if anything?

(Again, this isn’t kink-shaming, I just enjoy learning how other people’s heads work, if that makes sense 😼)

Hello. I can't speak for everyone, but I will try to explain how I feel about it as best I can.

Non-con is something that I recognize as a kink, but only in fantasy. I can differentiate something like that happening in a made-up story from things that actually occur in real life.

Again, I cannot speak for everyone, but for me, at least, it is about power dynamics. I like reading and writing stories with a power imbalance. It is just a dynamic that I like regarding kinks and fantasy.

I don't think there really is a difference between non-con and rape. If there isn't consent, then it is rape. That is just how I see it.

Overall, it is something that I enjoy in a completely fictional setting where everything is controlled. As a reader, if I ever feel it's getting too dark or too much for me, I can stop reading and end it. So it is getting to explore a darker fantasy/kink while still being safe and in control.

I don’t know if that makes sense to others. It is a little hard to explain.

If anyone else would like to explain or add on, feel free to do so (as long as you do it respectfully).

[sazandorable]

About moderating and banning content on AO3!

Okay so! I haven’t had the spoons to do this for a while but I cracked and ranted about it on twitter which is... not... conducive to long rants, so!

This is a h u g e discussion part of the l o n g history that led to the creation of AO3, which older, more informed, and more articulate people have talked about at length and can be found around if you look (I reblog some of it in my AO3 and fandom history tags for the curious). So I won’t go into that here, nor into the practical reasons why it’s not even possible to put that system in place anyway.

Arbitrarily, or the purpose of this post, because it’s the biggest topic I’ve seen brought up lately, I’ll be talking about fic depicting underage characters in se*ual situations, but honestly I could hold the exact same conversation on literally any controversial content.

This is about why you, specifically, if you are a content creator and especially if you are marginalised and especially if you are queer and especially especially if you are sensitive to fiction depicting certain things... do not, actually, want a banning system on AO3.

What? Of course we do. There’s a lot of p*do shit on AO3 and p*do shit is gross. No one should condone that, wtf? It would be easy to do — just periodically delete the entire Underage tag!

What will happen if that is done is that people will re-upload and continue to write it, they’ll just stop tagging and you will run into it with zero warning nor ability to filter it out. Again, this is not a theoretical — we know this is what happens. When I was a teen, adult content (all adult content) was not allowed on FF.NET; it was everywhere regardless, and without tags. The exact same thing happened on tumblr when adult content was banned as well. It’s not a matter of “staff not handling it well” — it just doesn’t work.

To keep safe the people who need to be able to exclude that tag, that tag needs to exist and be used.

Well, shucks. A reporting system then?

A reporting system would operate in one of two ways:

-an algorithm, which would delete a lot of stuff we wouldn’t want it to delete.

-humans, which is... the bigger problem.

An algorithm sounds great. We do want it to delete everything.

Okay. What about the daddy k*nk fics between consenting adult characters? What about the fics featuring characters that are children in the canon but are adults in the fic? What about the fics about teenagers exploring their se*uality together, written by adults about the experiences they remember having or wish they could have had? What about the thousands of SasuNaru and Drarry and other shounen and YA fics that will get written, by teens or by people who remember being teens? What about the se*ually explicit fic written by teens who are se*ually active in real life? What about the fics about CSA as trauma, about healing from it? What about the fics written by survivors of CSA to cope about their trauma? What about the fics that clearly show that it’s evil and traumatic? What about the super dark, harrowing, but beautiful and artistic that I’m glad I read even though it fucked me up for days? What about the ones that were really shitty but also horribly hot?

Well, some of these are still not okay, but maybe some might be. It depends on how it’s written. We’ll have humans moderating content and deciding, then.

Okay.

The thing is, I don’t know which of the things I just listed were okay for you to be depicted in fiction and which were too much. Odds are I don’t agree with you. Odds are if I asked 10 people randomly picked off the street, not everyone would agree.

Odds are, even if AO3 arbitrarily decided on which of those are allowed and which are not, you would not agree with their choice, and you would still be unhappy with the decision. (Or you would be happy, but your friends wouldn’t.)

Odds are, different AO3 content moderators might not agree on whether a given fic qualifies or not — is it artistic enough? Does it show enough that these actions are evil and wrong? Can the author prove they’re a teenager? Can the author prove they are a CSA victim? Can the author prove that this is to help them cope with their trauma? The author seem to be functioning alright, they mustn’t really be traumatised!

You know what I mean! There’s absolute, objectively gross shit out there that is not artistic and should not be published.

I agree that there’s vile stuff out there that makes me sick and that I think is very clearly just ped*philic trash. But there is no way to, 1) stop those from getting published anyway, 2) take those down and preserve the safety of everything else.

If we start forbidding some things, there’s two ways to go about it.

One single, clear, arbitrary rule — for instance, absolutely no adult content featuring characters under 18 (leaving aside the fact that this would not even work for the reason cited above). So we lose all the stuff from teenagers, all the coming of age stories about adolescence, all the stuff from CSA survivors; people who need to write it can’t publish it anymore, and people who need to read it can’t anymore either (and as a cool bonus, they’re told it’s wrong and made to feel bad about it). Depending on whether the rules applies to characters that are under 18 in the canon, we lose entire fandoms.

Or, subjective moderation by humans, according to what they estimate to be gross.

Let’s assume all moderators can agree on what’s gross or not.

If there is a system in place to ban some underage works because “gross shit”, then that means other gross stuff can be taken down on account of being gross and harmful.

Yeah! Gross stuff should be taken down! Come on, surely everyone agrees on what’s gross and harmful.

Ah.

But the problem is.

Here is a list of things I have seen — with my eyes seen — called harmful to be depicted in fiction:

Murder

Non-con

Inc*st

Cannibalism

Torture

Self-harm

Mental illness

Drugs

Racism

K*nk

Non-negotiated k*nk, but healthy k*nk is ok

Spanking k*nk

BDSM where the woman is a bottom, but woman top is ok

Healthy depictions of BDSM

Unhealthy depictions of BDSM

Queer people doing bad things

Abusive relationships

Rival/Enemies to lovers

Redemption stories

A happy relationship between a 17 yo and an 18 yo

A happy relationship between a 20 yo and a 60 yo

A happy relationship between a boss and their employee, or a college teacher and a student

A happy relationship between a 14 yo boy and an older teenage boy, because that’s reminiscent of older men preying on younger gay boys IRL

Se*ual content featuring a character whose age is unclear in canon and some people headcanon them as being underage, some as being a young adult

Loving, consensual fluff between characters that are evil villains, because it romanticises them and their actions

Dark content shipping female characters

Fluffy content shipping female characters, because it’s misogynistic to act like lesbians are only soft all the time

Consensual s*x featuring a canonically asexual character, because it implies that all aces can and should still have se*

Fics about the same canonically asexual character hating s*x, because that erases the experience of s*x-positive aces

Shipping a character who is perceived by some fans as queer-coded with a character of a different s*x

The tendency to ship a black character with white characters

Fluffy drunk s*x, because that’s not actually consensual

Sleep s*x, because that’s not actually consensual

Trans characters not experiencing dysphoria, because that idealises the trans experience

Consensual s*x between adults that are not married

LGBT+ content, because kids shouldn’t see that.

I guarantee you: you, I, and 10 random people plucked from the street will not agree on what, in that list, is and isn’t okay to publish and consume fiction of.

So why should your taste be the one followed? Why should it be the taste of mods you don’t know? Why should anyone get to dictate? What if the mods think your OTP is gross and your NOTP is fine?

This is the slippery slope argument.

Yes, it is the slippery slope argument. Because we know it happens. Because we’ve been there, because I’ve seen it happen myself twice already and I’m not even thirty. Because we know people do complain loudly about all of these things.

And because the second there is a banning system in place, assholes will use the system to abuse it and get stuff they just don’t like taken down using the “it is gross” argument, and one day you’ll wake up and the beautiful fic that helped you come to terms with your abuse/trauma/identity/orientation/k*nk for feet will be taken down and wonderful vulnerable creative people will have been harassed out of fandom because they argued with 1 person who didn’t like their foot k*nk fic that happened to also feature, for instance, a CSA trauma backstory.

Again: not exaggerating. Not theoretical. It happens, we know it happens, AO3 was created literally because it happens.

I still fucking hate that stuff.

That is completely fine and normal. No one likes everything. Me too! Most of the dark stuff is niche and the creators know only few people will like it the same way they do.

(For the record, I get grossed out and triggered by fics about an asexual character who does not like s*x having s*x with their partner to make them happy. Deep in my gut everything screams that that’s fucked up, terrifying and harmful, how can people write that. But I recognise that there are people who love and need that, and I leave those people and their content alone.

OTOH, I read a lot of otherwise dark shit and I enjoy it in the same way I enjoyed, say, Hannibal, in the same way some people enjoy true crime documentaries, horror movies or r*pe fantasy k*nk. It helps me explore stuff that I like to see in fiction, in a safe, controlled way. I’m also asexual, 90% s*x-repulsed IRL, and, obviously, I would never abuse a child. For that matter, I wouldn’t kill and eat people, either, nor would I do 90% of the tamer k*nky stuff I read.

Of course, Hannibal was fucked up and lots of people probably think Hannibal was gross and should not have been aired — but as exemplified by the fact that it was created, aired and watched, lots of people thought it was fine, interesting and even fun to watch.)

You can and should curate your experience and protect yourself. The AO3 website now allows you to exclude certain tags, and people have developed tools to help with that such as plugins that save your filters or hide fics that contain certain words.

But no, it isn’t going to, and it shouldn’t, get banned.

[vex-bittys]

How does the staff react to the "bitty whump" side of the bitty fandom? (Dont look if you're faint of heart, Tw rape, abuse, murder, betrayal, forced breeding etc)

*As far as the staff goes, Butter, Poff, and Honey are much too young to read/view that type of content. Syrup has long since decided never to leave the shop because humans are weird and untrustworthy. Bitty whump just confirms this for him. Edgar and Waffle severely disapprove of bitty abuse and harm because they often rescue bitties who have been victims of this. Miss Vex (character) does not approve because she runs a shelter and medical center that sees far too many injured or traumatized bitties.

*As far as me, Vex, as a person? Whump fic/art doesn’t actually bother me that much. I don’t seek it out, but if I see it, I’m not going to be triggered by it. I even wrote a (fairly mild) bitty whump piece for ammazolie once. I’m going to give a very long explanation below for why people who write, draw, or enjoy any type of whump media should not be demonized, but I also want everyone to know that it is ok to dislike and avoid this type of media. If it is triggering to you, don’t seek it out. 

*Please also remember that the creators of this media are human beings, so maybe don’t harass them or send them death threats? This is not up for debate or discussion on this blog.

*So I like psychology. I love the psychology of movies and stories. One of my favorite bits of media psychology is the reason that people love to scare themselves with haunted houses, rollercoasters, and scary movies. Some people genuinely enjoy the shock factor they feel when viewing or experiencing these things, but the deeply ingrained reason that we love these things so much? Control. Control of fear. No matter how scary the experience is, you know that it will end. You can safely put yourself in this situation knowing that it will only last the duration of the experience.

*Why is this important to the psyche? Because the world is downright terrifying, and one of the scariest parts of the big, bad world? Things happen without a reason. Things happen beyond our control. Things can happen to anyone at anytime. We need to be able to ground ourselves by exerting control over emotional experiences.

*Many people use whump media as a coping mechanism for trauma. They could not control the trauma that happened to them, but when creating whump media, they can control it. Some people use it to cope with a scary world by creating fictional situations that reflect that scariness. By controlling what happens, it gives the power back to them. Some people just enjoy the sense of excitement it gives them without causing harm to others. I can experience this and no one is harmed? There’s a thrill to that, a thrill that people would not enjoy knowing that an actual person or animal was harmed.

*I know a lot of people (especially young people) in fandom feel very righteously outraged that such things can exist. That’s the idealism of youth. Everyone experiences that at some point. That’s a young person’s reaction to the uncertainty and injustice of the world. There’s so much scary stuff out there that it’s natural to want to change it, but sometimes it seems like too big a problem to pursue. Instead, younger fans will try to stomp out whump because they see it as a problem they can tackle. Their extreme reaction to whump reflects the extreme uncertainty and lack of control they see in the world.

*One argument is the whump normalizes violence, including sexual violence and torture. They think that whump creators are setting a bad example for young people (though they themselves are young and can immediately determine that the situations dealt with in whump are bad). It’s not a matter of normalizing these situations for children. This is a matter of recognizing the difference between fiction and reality, and being able to view media without accepting that everything you see is normal or proper behavior. 

*This is something that comes with experience. We aren’t born knowing everything. As we grow up, we learn that fiction is not reality. We learn that sometimes media addresses negative or terrible things from the real world. However it is addressed, we still have our own moral compass to guide us.

*I have written whump, and I have written noncon both as a kink and as a crime/whump. Am I a terrible person who torments animals and condones rape? Hell no! I am a very outspoken advocate of more severe punishments for rapists and animal abusers. Creating something in fiction is not the same as supporting or condoning it in reality. I really hope some people read this and it makes them think.

*You don’t have to like whump. Lots of people don’t. Lots of people find it triggering, and that’s ok. The best thing to do if whump is upsetting to you is to avoid it. Don’t seek it out just so you can harass creators. Don’t seek it out at all. You control your online experience through the content and interactions you’re engaging in. Do what is right for you, but try to respect that not everyone views media in the way or for the same purpose.

[inkykeiji]

hi just curious, don't mean no harm ok? i heard people say dub-con/non con is equal to rape, and what's your opinion as a writer? i myself, started reading, but sometimes i feel quite guilty and i'm trying to educate myself in therms if this is okay or not, i'm not sure yet. i understand is only fiction, and that people that write/read might not support dub-con/non con it in real life. you can answer in private or ignore if you'd like. thank you!

hi babie!! no harm taken at all <3 okai we’re gonna dive into this under the cut cause i have a looot of thoughts on this.

first and foremost, i’m so sorry you’re feeling that way. you have absolutely no reason to feel guilty for reading and enjoying fictional noncon! as a writer, i’d say yeah, in the fake world of fiction that i’ve created, it technically is rape. but the beauty of fiction and art is that it allows us to safely explore these darker topics (for whatever reason; could be coping, could be morbid interest, could be a thousand other things) with 100% control to stop them at any time. most people explore these topics in fiction precisely because they don’t actually want to do them in real life, they don’t actually want to hurt real people. if anything, feeling guilty about it is a very good indicator that you don’t support this in real life, even if you enjoy reading or writing about it. rape fantasies are very common among women, but that does not in any way mean these women actually want to get raped. it all comes down to control. if you’re playing out a scene with a partner, which would essentially be consensual noncon, then you have complete control  to stop it at any time; you have made these decisions for yourself, they weren’t taken from you, you’ve given your partner explicit permission to do this and to stop if you safeword. if you’re feeling uncomfortable, you have the power to end the scene (and in the same vein, the reading/writing) at any time you want to and walk away. as you’ve already touched on, enjoying something in fiction does not in any way, shape, or form mean that you condone it in real life. i love horror films, i love writing about murder and gore, i love true crime docs and am endlessly fascinated by serial killers and the inner workings of their minds. does that mean that i want to actually kill someone?? good GOD no; i can’t even LIE to people without feeling insanely guilty hahahaha i would never ever be able to take someone’s life from them!! and this is such an obvious example, right?

tons of people love horror, and we never question if they want to actually kill people, because it just sounds absurd; everyone already knows this stuff is wrong and that the fiction they’re interacting with is fake. so ask yourself, why is it any different with fanfic writers who write dark fic about 2d anime men? it isn’t! it is literally the exact same thing. another example: quentin tarantino is one of my all time favourite directors (yes i am a filmè bro, don’t come for me, and no pulp fiction isn’t his best movie, don’t come for me x2) and i love love love his work, but does that mean i want to recreate his violence? of course not! does it mean HE wants to recreate his violence? absolutely not!! even just asking the question out loud sounds kinda silly, doesn’t it?

the fact of the matter is, if someone reads or watches something dark, and then thinks that thing is OKAY, then there was something wrong with THEM in the first place, not the piece of media they interacted with. mentally healthy & sane individuals know right from wrong and can easily separate fiction from reality.

as such, liking this stuff doesn’t make you a bad person, i promise you with my whole heart. if anything, the fact that it’s got you worrying as much as you are and feeling THIS distressed is already proof enough that you aren’t!!! bad people don’t often worry if they’re bad people.

in terms of whether or not it’s ‘okay’, baby, morality is grey. i’ll use the murder example again just because it’s easy: there are people in this world who will argue with you tooth and nail that killing, ALL TYPES OF KILLING, is bad regardless of the outcome, regardless of if it saves lives, and there are people who will argue with you tooth and nail that sometimes killing is necessary (terrorist, hostage, BAD people) and that killing for the greater good (ie taking one life to save several) is okay.

there’s no right answer here. morals, beliefs, ideals, they’re extremely personal. so only you can decide whether or not you think this is okay. you’re allowed to think it isn’t! that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it, and we would respectfully agree to disagree (what you aren’t entitled to is harassing creators over it!). your morals don’t have to perfectly align with everyone else’s, and i’m very proud of you for doing your own research and asking these questions in an effort to form your own opinion on the matter <33 don’t let anyone scare or bully you into agreeing with them. additionally, why do these people’s opinions even matter to you? who are they, other than a stranger on the internet, and why are you giving them so much power over your life, thoughts and feelings? these are important questions to ask yourself!! because at the end of the day, YOU know yourself best. YOU know you don’t condone this stuff, and that’s all that‘s important, because those who matter don’t mind, and those who mind don’t matter <3

the bottom line is, if you can read noncon and go ‘i know this is wrong in real life’ then you’re all good!! you know that you know right from wrong, good from bad, and that you don’t condone this in real life. you’re doing good anon, pinky promise you <33 i love you whether your morals perfectly align with mine or not! ur valid!! sending tons of big hugs ur way n I hope this helped a little <3333

[demented-dukey]

“Reasons Why I ~Shouldn’t~ Ship RemRom” Masterlist

(Companion to: "Reasons Why I Ship RemRom" Masterlist)

After a year of shipping RemRom, I think I’ve heard every argument against it. I decided to compile a masterlist so it’s easier to copy and paste a link the next time I hear the same argument for the zillionth time. (Obviously some of the reasons and explanations overlap, but I tried my best to keep them separated and organized. Am I missing a reason? Shoot me an ask and I’ll add it!)

Some apply to me personally, some do not, but I will use the terms “I/Me/We/Us” interchangeably:

“They’re brothers.” Some people ship brothers. Some people don’t consider them brothers, or purposefully make them unrelated in their fic.

“It’s Incest.” All the sides are part of Thomas, all ships are literally selfcest. “It’s CANON that they’re brothers.” Whether or not we agree with you on what is and isn’t canon, people are free to cherrypick what canon they use or discard at will. Fanfic does not have to be 100% canon compliant.

“It’s Gross/Disgusting/Icky.” Some people don’t think it’s gross. Other people like it because it’s gross. Most people agree that sardines are gross, but there’s still people who like them. Eating Bertie Bott's vomit-flavored jelly beans is gross, but it’s still “safe” because it doesn’t carry the same risks and repercussions that eating real vomit in Real Life does.

“It’s Wrong.” Lots of things are wrong - Murder. Violence. Abuse. Drugs. Etc. People still write about them, even in a “positive” light.

“It’s Illegal.” Wait, are you talking about incest in Fiction, or in Real Life? Because incest in Real Life is mostly illegal (I say “mostly” because the specific laws can vary in different places depending on gender and degree of relation), but writing about incest is not illegal. It’s important you know that there’s a difference between fiction and reality.

“Fiction influences Reality.” But fiction is not the same as reality, nor does it have a 1:1 direct influence. Things like the Scully Effect and the Jaws Effect don’t apply here - fanfiction doesn’t have the kind of mainstream or widespread influence that a prime time television show or a blockbuster movie does, and it comes with tags and trigger warnings that those kinds of media do not.

“Shipping RemRom means you support incest in real life.” No, it does not. Shipping is not activism, and enjoying incest in fiction does not mean we condone it in real life.

“Shipping RemRom means you don’t have any siblings, or that you want to bang your siblings.” No, it does not. Many shippers have siblings, and our relationships with our siblings are platonic - we have no desire to bang them. See again: There is a difference between fiction and reality.

“Children will read this and think incest is Okay.” Children should be taught by their caregivers and teachers/mentors to critically examine the media they consume. It is not a fanfiction author’s job to teach children morality - we assume whoever is reading our fics already knows “Incest is Wrong” and is willing to suspend their belief for the length of the fanfic.

“RemRom romanticizes incest.” I mean, I guess yeah? But you should know that going into it? Oxford defines “Romanticize” as “deal with or describe in an idealized or unrealistic fashion; make (something) seem better or more appealing than it really is.” - isn’t that what most fanfiction does anyways? Do you also complain that apple juice tastes like apples?  (Addendum 1: “Incest should not be Romanticized/Glorified.” Fiction is a safe space to explore taboo topics. It can be educational to see something “bad” (like abuse or incest) portrayed in a “good” light in fiction so that you can learn to recognize it and not get fooled by that kind of propaganda or situation in Real Life.)  (Addendum 2: What counts as "Romanticizing/Glorifying Incest” can be extremely subjective, and is not universal to all fic and shippers. There are shippers who don’t write Roman and Remus as brothers, so their fic is not romanticizing “incest”. There’s fic that portrays RemRom as abusive or destructive, or portrays a realistic reaction to the others finding out about the relationship, so that fic is not “romanticizing” incest. But people who accuse RemRom of “romanticizing incest” don’t really care about these distinctions, they just want to condemn/exclude all RemRom fanfic and shippers.)

“RemRom normalizes incest.” It really doesn’t. That’s why we use tags and trigger warnings, because we know it’s not normal and can trigger people. Incest shipping will always be a minor section of fandom, and allowing us to exist in fandom spaces does not mean we’ll ever be a majority or “normal”.

“RemRom is triggering.” People triggered by RemRom can block and filter the tags to avoid seeing it. (Addendum: “RemRom isn’t being tagged.” If a post isn’t tagged properly, OP needs to be contacted directly so they can fix their error. Posting generalizing statements about huge amounts of RemRom going untagged smells like slander, and I’d like some proof before I’ll believe any more claims of this.) 

“RemRom is harmful.” A fictional story in and of itself is not harmful. Any “harm” that it can cause stems from things like a lack of warnings (which is why tags and trigger warnings are important), a lack of personal responsibility (people who know they will get harmed not filtering it out or choosing to expose themselves to it despite warnings), a lack of morality/critical thinking skills (which it is assumed a reader has before entering into the fic), or a violation of the fic’s intended use (the “grooming” argument).

“RemRom can be used for grooming.” And a hammer can be used to bash someone’s skull in. That’s not its intended use, and taking away one tool will not stop a groomer from using another.

“Thomas hates RemRom/doesn’t want people to ship it.” I’ve seen a couple people spreading this rumor, but there’s never any proof. Pics or it didn’t happen. (Addendum 1: Does this mean I think Thomas ships it? No, I don’t think he does. Considering his Catholic upbringing, he probably doesn’t like it. But he’s never said anything about it.) (Addendum 2: Does this mean I want him to say something about it, or that I encourage people to ask him or Joan about it? HELL NO. Leave Thomas and Co out of this, it is not their place to weigh in on fandom drama.)

“Joan said they were brothers.” Joan said they were “conceptually” brothers, like Patton is a Dad or Logan is a Teacher. Joan also said that they were not biologically brothers.

“Roman and Remus consider themselves brothers.” Patton considers himself the father of the others, specifically Virgil and Thomas. If you can accept one ship, you can accept the other. (Addendum: It is a common trope of romcoms for the female love interest to say that the male lead is “like a brother to her”, only for them to romantically end up together by the end of the flick.) 

“Roman and Remus hate each other.” Feelings change. Roman didn’t like Virgil in the beginning either. Also, fic doesn’t have to be canon-compliant. Also also, “They hate each other” is the perfect foundation for tropes like “Enemies to Lovers”.

“RemRom is abusive because Remus knocked Roman out.” The sides are all imaginary, and Logan said that object impermanence renders him pretty unintimidating. Remus’s violence is as abusive and permanent as the violence in Saturday Morning Cartoons. Also, fic doesn’t have to be compliant to canon relationships.

“RemRom is disrespectful to Trauma Survivors.” No. Shipping fictional incest does not condone real-life incest, and there are Trauma Survivors who use proshipping to cope. (Addendum: “RemRom isn’t a good coping mechanism/Trauma survivors who proship are re-traumatizing themselves.” Falsehood. Therapists/counselors/etc. support proshipping as a coping mechanism. It’s not for everyone, but it can help people cope.)

“RemRom is disrespectful to Fictives and Kinnies.” No. My RemRom fic as no more to do with your Fictive than my Thomas/Jon Cozart RPS has to do with the actors themselves. It’s not about you, it’s about my version of this character. Also, there are Fictives and Kinnies who ship RemRom.

“Why can’t you ship any other pairing instead?” Because we like this pairing. Because this pairing has implications and themes that other pairings do not. If somebody is happily enjoying some durian fruit, you shouldn’t slap it out of their hand and demand, “Why can’t you just eat an apple instead?” (Addendum: Most people do ship other ships as well. But due to the wide practice of excluding/banning proshippers from large sections of Tumblr/Discord/etc., you won’t see your average Fander admit to also shipping RemRom on their main. This fandom shunning forces Fanders to set up secret RemRom-devoted sideblogs, which leads to a deceptive assumption that “RemRom shippers won’t talk about any other ship” without acknowledging that proshippers are often not allowed into other fandom spaces to talk about other ships because so many people refuse to interact with them.)

[yanderewhims]

Hello! So I've been wanting to start yandere blog, but I'm a bit scared to. I know it's a controversial subject to write and can be very triggering to others, but personally I would like to try it out! What do you think I should do?

Hello there anon!

I can understand how you feel--yandere IS a very touchy subject with most people and there will be people (like antis who run quite rampant in fandoms) who will try to shame you for liking or writing for it, calling you an 'abuse apologist' or all kinds of shit. However it's important to understand that it is only fictional. Just because you write certain subjects does not mean you condone them in real life. For example, a someone who writes crime shows write about murder a lot. Does that mean they support murder? No it does not! It's all about being able to separate fiction from reality and understanding that just because you read/write about something bad, doesnt mean you're a bad person. Everyone has their own reason for liking 'problematic' content-- some people use it to cope (I personally do this a bit), some people do it to explore the subject, etc. It's not a bad thing to explore things in fiction.

Some tips I do have however:

1. Tagging is your best friend. Always be sure to tag yandere-themed posts properly so they won't end up in main tag, or so people who dislike yandere can blacklist and block the tags. I always tag posts as 'tw yandere' so that people can blacklist it.

2. Add trigger warnings! It's important to always warn any readers what they will read about. If it contains something that they're not comfortable with, for example NSFW content, they know to not to read it. Also, it's just more courteous.

3. Tumblr tagging system is pretty fucked up though, so even if it includes the characters name it will end up in tags. Screenshotting the request is a good idea to prevent that.

4. Just be mindful of what you write. As mentioned before, yandere can be triggering and uncomfortable to others, which is understandable, after all it does deal with things like abuse and toxic relationships. I'm no purity police, lmao I'm the last person to purity police, but I think its important to understand just what you're writing and why others would be uncomfortable. Try not to romanticize it too much, because remember: yanderes are not a positive thing. They are negative, they are toxic, they are abusive and vile, so try to portray it as such, if that makes sense.

That being said, if you wanna make a blog for it, go for it! Just try to keep certain things in mind, but also have fun with it. Like I said before: it's all just fiction.

[bountyman]

Name any three things about the rpc that bother you.

the be honest meme || x || accepting

Hum… 

1) Definitely the sort of hive-mind / mob mentality that sometimes rises up in the RPC. I’ve been fortunate to never experience it first-hand, but I’ve seen some roleplayers (genuinely nice ones!) get absolutely hounded by people for small mistakes, slips, things they’ve already apologized for, and even just false rumors. It’s scary how some folks will see cal.lo.ut posts, blindly agree, and then jump on the hate bandwagon.  I think I’ve mentioned this kind of thing before on my blog, but it’s happened enough times that it just sticks out so sorely in my mind. Observations of a few really bad and unfounded cases are the biggest reason why I’m so against call.ou.t / cancel culture. I know some of them are done with good intention, but honestly it just strikes me as childish and I’ve only ever seen maybe 1 instance in almost 10 years where it was ever justified.2) Roleplay groups that clog RP tags with ads, promos, and submissions!! Lord have mercy, I think I’ve blocked more RPGs than po.rn bots. I’m not against RP groups but wowee I can’t scroll through #marvel rp / #dc rp / #disney rp / any big RPC tags without getting flooded with ad after ad from RPGs. I think all the submission and application posts are the most annoying, though. It makes it so hard to find other indie blogs and definitely doesn’t make me want to join their group. 3) This is likely unpopular, but how villains or morally grey muses are treated within the RPC / people trying to equate mun and muse. I only write two bad guys right now and so far I’ve had decent luck with no one trying to police them, but I’ve had experiences in the past where people have tried to tell me that I couldn’t write something because they didn’t agree with it, or they became upset when my villain muse lashed out at theirs. If you’re going to write with a serial killer muse (for instance) or a muse with an aggressive personality… maybe don’t get offended when your muse pushes them and they strike back?

Additionally, it’s just really weird to me what people try to tell writers they can’t write. I’m mostly talking about villains here, but this could be applied to any kind of character. 

For example, there are muns out here getting dragged for writing dark topics like r.ap.e, but no one cares if someone writes about murder or torture? Now, granted, I’d never write a ra.p.e scene. Personally, that makes me extremely uncomfortable, but I also don’t really care if someone else writes it providing that both muns are consenting and it’s properly tagged. Why does one dark topic get a pass, while another equally dark (or in some cases objectively less dark) doesn’t?

You could argue that fiction has an affect on people and, sure, I won’t argue with that. Fiction is powerful. Fiction can change how people think and feel. But censorship is arguably more dangerous and I can’t agree that just because something is dark or taboo means that it shouldn’t be written at all. Fiction is a safe way to explore the dark, the macabre, and the violent, and for some people, it’s a way to cope with the horrible things that have happened in their lives.

A writer shouldn’t have to worry whether or not they need to babysit people or explain why a topic is bad, or worry whether or not the content they’re writing is “too dark”. The reader is responsible for what they view, and if those things truly do tempt them to do bad things, they shouldn’t be on the Internet at all. If someone writing a torture scene makes you want to go torture someone, that is not normal. Get off the Internet and go get help. But don’t blame the writer. And absolutely never assume that whatever is being written equals condoning that thing. Mun never ever necessarily equals muse.

Let villains be villains. Let characters do morally grey or straight up wrong things. It’s always good to write respectfully and to use your own discretion, but… also? This is just tumblr roleplay. No one is out here getting published. No one is preaching to the masses and trying to flip the world on its head by writing something questionable or dark. 

Just let villains be villains. A mun who writes a serial killer (or whatever!) doesn’t make them a serial killer, any more than a mun writing a four-headed platypus makes them a four-headed platypus. 

[androgynousblackbox]

What's your opinion on the yandere/yancore community on tumblr? So basically a yandere is anime-speak for an obsessive psycho that stalks her crush and would kill anyone for getting close to said crush.. Now people on tumblr(yandere community) are proudly calling themselves yandere and bragging about how stalkerish they are irl.

Well, considering I have some Morty OC that are yandere, some yandere Rick, I have a tag of yandere content and follow some yancore blogs, I do like the fictional trope of an obssesive lover.What I have seen about the community itself (and I will admit is not that much so take that with a grain of salt), is that a lot of people are very much concentrated on clarifying that they do not condone the actions of yanderes. I see that disclaimer a lot on blog titles, description or FQA, to the point I actually feel is ridiculous because it should be the norm to expect people AREN’T actually thinking murdering, stalking and about to stab someone because they talked to another person. The fact that here in tumblr just assumed that because you post shit like “only look at me, senpai, or I will kill everyone you know!” you MUST be a murder on the making, instead of someone just having harmless fun playing out a silly fantasy unless say otherwise is really unsettling to me.Now, I have seen people mention those people like the ones you describe, and I don’t doubt they are real because there is a bit of everything on this world, but it doesn’t really seems they are a majority? Or greatly accepted overall? They seems to be a vocal minority and, like, obviously that isn’t cool, but it shouldn’t speak for everyone who likes those characters either. Unhelpful, obnoxious and vocal minorities are going to be found on every single community ever if it’s big enough, so no surprise there.I also heard that some people with some mental illneses use yanderecore for coping, which, you know, that is fucking great and good for them.So I think I am good with the whole thing. But those people, if they are saying the truth, which is questionable on itself, sound like they are going through some mental issue that is getting untreated and they are not going to get better by someone calling them “psychos”.

[permian-tropos]

CW: discussion of real world violence

ok but one of my least favorite things in all of the kylo discourse is 

-- the argument that he’s a school shooter/incel/neo-nazi and therefore a) you’re not allowed to engage with his character on any level besides far-removed disgust because it destroys any appeal to this made-up character in a space fantasy who crowns himself supreme fucklord of the shiny brutalist galactic autocracy and has a laser sword with a crossguard made of more laser sword and is portrayed by a subjectively attractive actor or b) we have to explain why he’s actually nothing like that and never talk about these issues because it would be wrong to take this made-up character who does lots of violence on a mega galactic scale and kills the two most beloved characters of modern cinema and like, use him as an outlet for feelings about real world violence or something

to me it seems truly ugly to ask, in particular, Gen Z kids, but anyone right now, not to make art about dangerous people in their generation and their society and possibly their own community. this isn’t about appropriating the trauma of a far off country or distant history. right in this day and age kids in America go to high school in fear that one of their peers might snap and murder them -- but they can’t go around looking at every other teenager as an inhuman monster. they have to deal with that cognitive dissonance

I can’t condone telling young people or indeed the parents of young people that they can’t express something of that. write your fucking fiction about fantastical school shooters and incels and neo-nazis for god’s sake! write what your id wants to write about that, not just what seems the most morally safe. they’re all around you and they’re genuinely threatening your safety or the safety of your children but they in a sense might also be you, or your child, or someone you are close with, and you’re allowed a space to cope with that

people will say that it causes more of this evil, it normalizes and encourages it. that any time people artistically express ideas outside of a rigid moral framework about some social ill, it will only encourage that social ill

but this is a) fucking terrible when it comes to priorities about solving social ills because maybe there’s nothing wrong with art being fucked up if a society is fucked up and b) saying that venting feelings into an unreality where no one can be harmed, is more harmful than repression

sanitizing media by insisting that dark stories are undesirable and aesthetically antithetical to fiction based on like. mythology (lol) or fairy tales (LOL!!!) or FUCKING PSYCHOANALYSIS (LMAO!!!!), or by insisting that canon is simultaneously too dark and too pure to put these discussions anywhere but dry, moralizing, opinionated, un-artistic Discourse (like this post)

so yeah that’s my hot take. I used to really hate certain kinds of dark edgy shit but giving people full opportunities to avoid it =/= eradicating it and SW fandom in particular has swung hard into this trend of sanitizing everything and then pretending that the sanitization of media has only ever been about removing marginalized identities, and not also about removing dark topics because they were dark and because they exposed people’s existential horror at a society, which is, quite frankly, very bad

[stupidusernamepolicy]

Ok i rarely ever add my own opinions on things publically because it's the path of least resistance on here, but this post low-key made my skin crawl because of what happens as a result of calls to action like this, and since I'm aro I'm confident enough to actually add to this.

If you're going to follow this rhetoric, please exercise caution. I'm not going to stand here and play devil's advocate, but it's a simple fact that not all people who write "problematic" content identify with what they're writing. Fiction is a safe space for many to explore trauma or events they would never participate in or condone in real life.

This tendency towards certain unsavoury tropes CAN be concerning if it can be pieced into a larger pattern of suspicious behavior, like outright condoning the things they write about (which is not the same as: explaining their reasons for producing it or justifying the right for non-fetishizing content of it to exist). Writing DOES NOT automatically equal condoning it for god's sake! If it were that way we shouldn't consume anything because creators would be horrible people for standing behind things like cannibalism and murder!

Secondly, any community, especially one taking place outside of a closed, topic-specific forum, isn't the kind of community that can pull this boycott-esque shit off. This can fly in discords, you can govern those places as you please, but Tumblr isn't a space you can quarantine a part of, and that leads to the next problem.

Probably the most erraneous thing about this post is that it stinks of american-specific purity culture. I couldn't believe what I was reading. Ridding the community of the weirdos? Protect the children? Us "nonshit" ones Vs Them? Moral standard?? Red flags were flying. And you just kept going. Y'all really like putting a gay hat on the "save the children" shit huh.

Child proofing anything larger than a private forum is an endeavour doomed to fail. It's not on you to "protect" kids, at most it is on you to teach them how to curate their experience. Block tags and people. The internet isn't for kids under 13 and most of the spaces here aren't for minors at all! You aren't their parents for god's sake, and it's not on you to dictate what people can and cannot partake in. Fandom Moms have been a phenomenon in internet history that is well documented almost always end badly, because surprise surprise! People eager to remove and cancel people part of their "community" to show off how good and unproblematic they are in comparison, are usually shitty and actually predatory!

This is enabled by American specific mentality of a moral high standard that has caused so much hurt and anguish in online spaces that I do not believe how people just keep fucking reinventing it and marketing it as The Thing To Do online!

This is a message that is so open to interpretation that it has the capacity to do serious damage. By your logic, how you've presented it, an aro creator would get gatekept and shunned out of a community for writing something and not disclosing they're writing about it to cope, something they shouldn't be obligated to fucking disclose, just because minors or someone who may be uncomfortable with the material might see it. Do you not realize how fucked up that is?

Speaking of minors, hello, I was one not that long ago myself. I see minors when moving thru fandoms. Most of them simply aren't yet equipped for nuanced topics such as this and they tend to dogpile indiscriminately. You cannot protect them but you can sure as fuck count that a big part of those that read this will start vigilantism upon "harmful" posts so, good job. You didn't protect kids but instead gave them an incentive to seek that content out, only now with the purpose of harassing the creators.

Tag your shit. Use the blacklist. Make private, tightly monitored discords. And just because someone is aro, or ace, that doesn't mean they should feel obligated to disown somebody because of incomplete information.

This is a HORRIBLY irresponsible post to put out here and I am frankly aghast that this sentiment is still acceptable.

TL;DR:

1) The act of writing about something doesn't always mean condoning it and indiscriminately condemning it leads to innocent people getting hurt.

1.5) Putting a post like yours out here without disclosing that, in a community you say yourself is full of minors (many of whom have yet to learn the concept of nuance) is jaw-droppingly irresponsible.

2) Communities on Tumblr aren't isolated and morality is subjective and culture-specific. Opening a conversation about it instead of arguing which is right or wrong would do a lot less harm.

3) Child-proofing the internet is always an exercise in futility. You're not their parent, they're not your responsibility, teach them how to avoid the things they don't want to see and move on.

4) Introducing ship wars to queer politics and comparing all pro shippers with fucking TERFs? Fucking really??

5) FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP COPYING HISTORICALLY HOMOPHOBIC ARGUMENTS AND PROPAGATING PURITY CULTURE IN A RAINBOW OVERCOAT.

ok so not to swing a bat at a hornet’s nest but,

Recently we (aro community) found out that one (1) person amongst us was a terf, and our reaction was to shun them immediately and make it explicitly known that we do not condone or welcome that ideology. Which was great and I’m so happy and proud that we did that. 

Now that we know we can, I propose we do the same to ‘anti antis’ or whatever the fucketh else they call themselves. For the blissfully uninformed I’m referring to people who enjoy/make content featuring abusive, nonconsensual, incestous, pedophiliac etc. relationships and find depictions of them sexy and therefore acceptable rather than. you know.. fucking disgusting?

They aren’t an aro community specific problem, and us nonshit aros are not to blame, but there are still people like this hanging around getting their posts reblogged, interacting happily with the rest of us and basically I would prefer if that wasn’t the case because for obvious reasons it makes myself and others I know feel v unsafe. not gonna name names of the big ones I see getting platformed a lot/have had experience w because that’s dangerous and not the Point of this especially because they are all. totally open about it 

anyway can we please make it clear they’re not welcome? I know it’s hard to talk about issues we have because of how likely aphobes are to bend our words to mean our community is Bad and aros are Bad but I shouldn’t have to explain why people who promote things like paedophillia and ‘noncon’ (read: rape) are dangerous to us and why it’s likely triggering to many people (though I would point out that our community specifically has a high number of sex repulsed people and minors which adds to the yikes).

We achieve this (making our community hostile to and eventually free of the shitheads) by kicking them out of our servers, blocking them, not interacting with their content, making ourselves aware of who they are so as not to promote their content unawares (aka having a quick scroll through blogs. They are all. so open about this crap it’s terrifying) and if you feel brave enough to, making statements on your blog about not supporting this ideology. I would also advise not engaging/debating them. This isn’t about proving our point because our point is a basic moral principle. 

Ok good luck everyone let’s make our community safer! 

[nonbinarypastels]

about your post on how liking certain fiction doesnt make you a bad person i really don't get it. if you're not a bad person why like bad things in fiction? how does what you read not show what kind of person you are?

Because life and humanity are not just not that simple. It seems easy to believe something like "person likes horror = person is obviously a horrific human being" until you actually take a closer look at people, until you actually think about the complexity and depth of human thoughts, feelings, and desires, and you realize that to boil all of human personality down to what someone has read in a book or watched in a movie is reductive black and white thinking at it's worst.

Let's talk about popular media for a minute:

The book 'The Silence of the Lambs' and the rest of the Hannibal Lecter book series which feature a cannibal as a main character and shows other such delightful past-times such as loving moths and making trench coats out of people has won multiple awards and sold millions of copies. The show 'Hannibal' that was adapted from the book series (and, it should be noted, was 1000x more gorey than the books) had millions of viewers and continues to have an active fandom who have created thousands of pieces of fanworks based on the show that are just as bloody (if not more) than what is seen on screen. The 'A Song of Ice and Fire' books which are 90% murder and 10% incest have also sold millions of copies, saying nothing of Game of Thrones which everyone should know is also widely popular. On a similar note, the book 'Flowers in the Attic'---everybody and their mother's original problematic fave---has sold over forty million copies worldwide and has been adapted onto screen several times.

These are only a few examples of books---there are millions more. Crime thrillers routinely top best seller lists, as does dark fiction in general, where the more horrifying and devastating the plot twist the more people tend to love the book. This is to say nothing of fanfiction (of which there are millions upon millions out there) which have as much, if not more, variety as published work.

Moving on to shows and movies: new horror movies are released every year because people can't get enough of them. The 'Scream' movie franchise, for example, is one of the most profitable ones out there and has made hundreds of millions of dollars in the United States alone. A new version of the movie 'It', based on Stephen King's highly popular horror book, will be coming out later this year along with over a dozen other horror flicks. Horror shows aren't quite as common but crime dramas are a dime a dozen. See: Criminal Minds which depicts horrible things being done to people in as much detail as you can get on network tv, a show that is going into its 13th season in September and continues to be popular.

Horror is also a rather popular game genre. See: the Silent Hill franchise, Resident Evil, Until Dawn, and many others. It's also a popular genre in comics, such as The Walking Dead which turned into a highly popular tv adaptation. This is all not even getting into music or art, both of which are mediums that can contain content that is just as 'problematic' as anything you'd find in books or on screen, because if I keep going on about this I'll be typing all day.

So

Take allll of that in. Take in all the examples I haven't mentioned, all of the millions of shows and movies and books and songs and comics and whatever else. Take that in and think of how many people those examples translate into. Millions of books sold = millions of people reading them. Millions of viewers = millions of people sitting down to watch these shows every week. Millions of dollars at the box office = millions of people giving their money in order to sit down and watch these movies.

That's millions and millions and millions of people who are consuming content which contains "bad" or "problematic" material. I feel it's completely accurate to state that these people are your family, your friends, your neighbors, probably even yourself because the probability that you've never consumed any of this content or don't know anyone who has is astronomical.

These are millions and millions and millions of people who, according to you, would be bad people simply because they consumed this content. And if you have consumed any of this content---which, again, you probably have at some point---that would make you a bad person too.

Does that honestly make sense to you? Do you honestly think that there are THAT many terrible people in the world? That the millions of people who, for example, sat down and watched Hannibal every week condone cannibalism in real life? That the people who have read the Game of Thrones books and loved them are all on the same level as someone who would screw his sister and push a kid out of a window? That the people who have watched every Scream movie are all a step away from putting on a mask and going on a stabbing spree?

If people were defined by the media they consumed and only the media they consumed with no other factors (such as what they actually believe is moral and ethical IRL, such as how they actually treat other people) then god help us all because the world would be a fucking utterly horrid place to be.

But, people aren't defined only by the media they consume because---again---people are much more complex than that and are so much more than only the kind of books they read or shows they watch.

This then begs the question: why do people consume this content? Why, if you're not condoning something, would you want to read about it or watch a movie about it? What do people get out of consuming fucked up media?

This isn't a new question. It's one that's been asked hundreds upon hundreds of time. If you only google "why do people like horror" you'll get page after page of results of laypeople and psychologists alike trying to explain it. The simple answer is basically that human beings as a whole like to feel intense emotions in a controlled, safe setting and as complex as we are we're also interested in the complexity of other people, even when they're fictional.

Most of us would not want to actually live in a horror movie, we wouldn't want to actually be locked in a closet with a guy on the other side breaking in with an ax and we wouldn't want to live in a haunted house surrounded by ghosts hellbent on murder and property damage. But in the safety of our own homes, a library, a movie theatre? We can sit down and read our books and watch our movies and feel terrified to our heart's blood-pumping content without ever having to actually put ourselves in harm's way. The same situation applies to other emotions: love, sadness, heartbreak, humor. Fiction gives people a chance to feel things as intensely as possible in a way that is, ultimately, safe. It gives people a way to escape and cope and be entertained and in a way live a life and experience things that it wouldn't be safe or practical or even desirable for them to experience in the real world.

And then there are plenty of people who like to consume this kind of media because they're simply fascinated by the psychology of the fictional characters involved. Like you want to know why people would want to consume this 'bad' content, the people who consume this content usually do so because they want to know what motivates these characters---what makes a person into a monster? What makes a monster into a person? And what does it say about us as people that we emphasize so strongly with monsters? There are entire swaths of people who find something almost addictive, almost holy about looking at the absolute darkest aspects of life and humanity and things beyond humanity and finding something in there that they can relate to and understand.

Human beings are, generally, an emotional species. We want to feel things. We want to feel things about people. We want to feel love and pain and fear and every single emotion there is to feel but we don't want to put ourselves in an unsafe position in order to do that. Fiction gives us a happy medium. The kind of fiction we consume doesn't make us bad people, it just makes us people, period, because people are complicated and flawed and messy and to try and apply black and white thinking to people as a whole is an exercise in futility. People aren't either good or evil, moral or immoral, "pure" or impure. It's more complicated than that, people are more complicated than that.

I've said it before and I'll say it a thousand more times: there are better ways to judge a person than by what fiction they like, by what movies or shows or books they prefer. The way people treat others matters. The way people talk about others matters. The way people believe things should be in real life matters. All a person's taste in fiction shows about them is their taste in fiction. You can't make any other assumptions about them based only on that because to do so is to try and apply an overly simple concept (liking fiction that contains bad things = you are a bad person) to something that isn't simple at all. Now, you don't have to like what another person likes or even understand it and you are 100% allowed to be critical of the media itself but if you go throughout life under the idea that people are defined by the media they consume then the world you believe you are in is going to look like a godawful place and every single person you ever meet is going to disappoint you because I think it's safe to say that there's not a single person on this earth who has only ever consumed 'morally pure' media. Everyone has watched a crime show, everyone has watched a horror movie, everyone has read a book or a fanfic with some fucked up things happening in it and anyone who says they haven't is lying their ass off.

The only way to not consume 'problematic' media is to never consume any media at all and if we are all defined by the media we consume, if we are all guilty of everything we have read about or watched on screen, then by that logic we are all bad people - we are all monsters - and that's just...not something that I believe in whatsoever, at all, because I think people are more complex than that and I have more faith in humanity than that.

[maivalentine]

Why do “problematic” ships and characters appeal to us?

I really wanted to write up a long post on this subject, seeing the ever growing hate and even IRL bullying that occurs because someone likes a character or ship that is deemed “bad”. A lot of these people say they are abuse survivors and invalidate the feelings of OTHER abuse survivors and it’s really starting to get on my last nerve. A lot of people in fandoms commonly say things like “That doesn’t make sense to me” or “I dont understand it” or “they hate each other (as if we didnt know that already in canon)” .

Another popular thing to do is to claim we crave unhealthy relationships and glorify them to the point where mock posts and comments have been made about those of us that hate/rival ship characters.  Or, if we like an individual character that is a “bad person”. 

Coming from the stance of a physically and emotionally abused person - and from what I have seen in my own fandoms and other people who support characters and ships for the same reasons I do, this is an explanation as to WHY we like these characters and their dynamics. I only speak from my own POV and am in no way trying to paint a picture of everyone who can speak for themselves. 

1) Rival ships :

Why do people LIKE rivals together? Typically they are seen consistently competing and trying to show each other up. Sometimes it’s questioned if they even “like” each other, or if the rivalry ends the relationship ends. There’s several things people like about rivalry. There’s something really attracting about two people getting passionate about each other. At some point it becomes a routine - their routine. Often times the bickering starts out as legit teasing, that turns into friendly banter. There are a lot of people that love the idea of friendly bickering, teasing, and the dramatics of being someones rival. 

Sometimes this doesnt happen in canon. Sometimes we decide on a ship based on their character personalities and how we *think* they would act in a fanon reality. Others can perceive this TOTALLY different which is where the “not understanding” comes from. It’s kinda wilde but different chemistry appeals to different people. Unlike hateships however, rival ships tend to be really friendly. Not always, but usually. Rivals that turn to friends BUT STILL keep their antics is one of the most appealing things about their relationship(s).

2) Hateshipping:

Unlike rivalry (which can exist in hateshipping as well) these characters have made it clear in canon they DO NOT like each other, or have blatantly stated that they hate each other or even that they want to kill each other. The terrible misconception about those of us that ship these (personally, one of my favorite dynamics) is that we support abuse and we “get off” to bruised and beat up characters and we’re twisted. Now while I don’t think there’s anything WRONG with being attracted to that dynamic, for myself and many others I’ve seen in different fandoms, Hateships are NOT about abuse - and they are hardly ever based on canon events unless grabbed to use in fanon + AUs. Hateships tend to branch off from canon and form into fanon AUs where we see this chemistry working if x thing happened, or if x thing developed this way instead, etc.

Hateships aren’t all the same - sometimes we get clue-ins that the two characters are able to respect one another to a certain degree, sometimes characters start out hating each other and that changes, or sometimes they save the other’s life unprompted. Little things like that create more initiative for us to think “huh... this could work if circumstances were different”

A lot of time with hate ships, we see how the two characters personalities mesh together SO WELL even though sometimes they appear as total opposites. Like rivalshipping (which it grabs some similarities from) they have grown into a routine of needing each other in some strange way. And we LOVE to explore that.

Another big thing about ships involving hate, is that they are often written and drawn by fans as a couple that HEALS not a couple that ABUSES one another. It’s usually about healing and forgiveness - confused feelings, and really digging into how these characters really dont actually hate each other at all. The fun part is exploring their complicated relationship.

3) Problematic Characters:

*Characters that experience abuse, but have done unforgiveable things:

People tend to assume that liking a character like this means we glorify them, support what they have done (ex: murder, emotionally damaged others, acted out, caused physical harm to others) and fully support them to the point where we want them to be forgiven for the bad things that they’ve done. It varies for every character, but in most instances that is NOT the case. In fact it’s only a handful that call these types of characters “precious characters that did no wrong” and MEAN it. ( a lot of us joke abt it but arent serious ) 

Like I said at the start of this, as someone who’s been abused in both ways I feel like these characters deserve BETTER. Sometimes abused characters are unfairly treated in canon - they arent given help, their help is taken away from them, their abuse turns them into the awful person they are. We want them to have redemption - we want them to have a fair development. We want abused characters to have some understanding, some respect. We are not saying it’s OK that they physically or emotionally hurt others. We are saying we understand them -- sometimes their actions can reflect an abused persons *impulses* that arent acted on. Abuse pain and the inner turmoil goes deep. Abused characters usually end up with a terrible hand, shitty development, and usually die or never get a chance to be understood. 

*Characters that are mentally ill:

Similar to an abused character (sometimes characters fit BOTH) people think we are saying “theyre mentally ill so we should forgive them and support what theyve done” no . no . no. much like the abused character, we SEE how their illness has effected them and again -- how theyve received no help in canon. Thats why ships involving these characters often revolve around rehab, redemption, healing. Typically with both these types of characters we see glimpses of how they were a good person before their trauma effected them. And we want to see more of that person. We want that person to come to life. Because we almost NEVER see abused or mentally ill characters come out alive or with understanding. 

*Villains:  

I know a lot of people don’t grasp this still, but you can like an evil character just because they are just so GOOD at being bad. It doesn’t make YOU a bad person for liking them. It’s fictional and their actions effect no one in real life. Yes, bad content can cause a trigger or a bad feeling - it can hurt. But liking a bad character does NOT MEAN we support bad feelings // things that happen to REAL people. 

Villains tap into dark fiction and it’s PERFECTLY okay to love horror and twisted things in fiction. Not all villains are 100 percent terrible either. Some start as a villain and become a hero. Sometimes, the other way around (a favorite of mine). Nothing about liking a bad character means that you are a bad person. 

What’s relateable about a villain? They aren’t perfect. They have interesting character development and back stories. Usually very dark things have happened in their lives. Sometimes, villains can draw out sympathy whether you see it personally or not.

People need to respect the fact that not all minds think the same. Abused and mentally ill people, do not exist in some bubble where you personally get to decide what content is right and wrong for them to consume.

People joke about “coping” but it’s true - we DO use fiction to cope sometimes and there’s nothing wrong abt it. We DO enjoy the darker side of things sometimes and want to explore it in fiction. There’s nothing wrong with it, and it hurts NO ONE at all.

If anyone tells you that you are hurting them for liking a fictional character or ship, they’re full of shit, plain and simple. You CAN NOT hurt someone by liking fictional pairings and characters.

It is not your fault if content you like triggers someone. It is not your fault if someone doesnt agree with your personal taste. It’s not THEIR fault either. It’s no one’s fault for triggers (unless we intentionally are trying to hurt someone which is shitty dont do that) and uncomfortable feelings arising for simply enjoying something.

It’s an unfortunate thing - we all handle these things differently. But what we have to realize is that all content is consumed differently and we need to respect that. We need to kindly deal with what makes us hurt (and what makes us not hurt) in a respectful manner.

It does no good to claim people are “rapists” “pedophiles” or “support murderers” for simply liking a character or a ship. You can be disgusted. You can rant. You can vent. You can express yourself no one’s stopping you.

But lines are totally CROSSED when you personally attack a person (who probably experienced some abuse of their own - its ,more likely than you think) or even physically attack a REAL LIFE person over content that they like. 

People have been bullied at cons for liking characters like Goro Akechi or Nathan Prescott . People have been called horrible things for liking characters that are deemed “bad” by others. 

I’m not saying pedophilic or legit horrible content doesnt EXIST nor do I condone it (lines to be crossed here too tbh), but it takes a bit of common sense... a common sense a lot of attackers against “problematic” content do not have.

To end this I want to say the most mind-blowing thing to me is a person claiming to be an abuse survivor and then emotionally or physically attacking ANOTHER ABUSE SURVIVOR (or any other type of person really) over what characters they happen to like. That IS abuse. That IS harassment. And you ARE a part of the problem. 

You are not protecting us by hurting us (ABUSE SURVIVORS AND THE MENTALLY ILL) & others .