#the only thing about s2 I remember is Max and that’s it

[helpimstuckposting]

I’m rewatching stranger things and Steve’s devastated little heartbroken face when Nancy calls his love bullshit is so sad I need to read 200 fics where eddie tells him it’s not before I’m okay again

[pretty-emo-dad]

I think that the costuming in ST is very fun to look at and think about and enjoy

[piratecaptainscaptainpirates]

The more I think about season 2, the more grateful I am.

In a lot of ways, OFMD's writers, cast, and crew were given an almost impossible task. S1 was brilliant and took everyone by surprise by how successful it became. I am still shocked every time I rewatch by how smart and efficient the writing is, how intelligent the social commentary. S1 is a masterclass in good television.

And for s2, expectations were incredibly high. OFMD found massive word-of-mouth success in a way I've never seen with any other show, and they suddenly had a big, incredibly passionate audience - the renewal was because of massive fan support, and that must have translated to an incredible amount of pressure in the writer's room. Plus, as if that wasn't enough on its own, they're having to deal with budget cuts and Max slashing them down to only 8 episodes to tell a 10-episode story. This is an incredibly daunting task.

And yeah, I've been critical. OFMD is my favorite show, no contest, and it's easy to be critical of the things we love. We can all see that the pacing was off this season, especially in those last two episodes. Some arcs felt rushed; some side characters didn't get enough screen time to set up what they're doing this season. Jim and Olu especially suffer for that. It's inexcusable that this show's budget was slashed the way it was and I'm sad for what we could have had.

But, on the whole? Holy shit, this season was incredibly successful! Despite an incredible amount of fan pressure, the writers told the story they wanted to tell. They never lost sight of Ed and Stede's story, and were smart about allocating screen time so our leads' arcs never suffered too much for it. There's so much creative problem solving - when they realized they'd need to be smart about which side characters to keep on screen, they turned Buttons into a bird in a way that underscored season themes of transformation and change. 10/10, no notes. They even remembered their audience and left us on a satisfying note for all our characters - we get to end with Ed and Stede, happy and together, starting their new life.

They had an impossible task and they did a fucking commendable job. Character beats and humor are balanced amazingly well. Ed and Stede feel so much more fleshed out this season. Just like in s1, OFMD will never be a show where you can catch everything with one watch - there's so many little jokes, hidden gags, small details to discover with every rewatch. And every single actor is giving it their all in every scene! You can tell how much this show was a labor of love for everyone involved.

I'm proper fucking impressed. Here's hoping they get a renewal and a better budget for season 3!

[stranger-theory]

OKAY GUYS.

from what ive noticed about the behind the scenes video, i'm gonna say some shit and you're gonna have to go along with it.

spoilers for st5 production !!

1. Dustin is 1000% getting beat up by the jocks. from what i remember, there was graffiti on Eddies tombstone which means the jocks are gonna be weird and write shit on his grave and then Dustin hops in to stop them, only for him to get some owies.

2. ZERO MILKVAN LMAO.

3. there's a weird scene with Nancy and Mike where they both look upset, Nancy because we can see her whole face but Mike has his eyebrows upturned, so. i'm not sure what it could be but she makes that face when she dissociates and thinks about something depressing so maybe they're talking about Holly's disappearance.

4. WE GOT WILL BYERS LETS FUCKING GOOOOO okay so he's falling from somewhere very high, it seems. i'm assuming he'd climbed the tree in an attempt to escape the demogorgan, only to be knocked off (frightened by lightning?). what if, when he falls, something weird happens before he hits the ground ???? like, powers-wise.

5. Holly is definitely the name in the episode titled "The Vanishing of ***** Wheeler", no way she isn't. she was literally in a room with flashing lights everywhere and the second clip was of her looking scared with some sort of dirty goo on the tips of her hair and her chest.

6. Nancy is actually in the candy striper outfit !! so i'm guessing she goes in the hospital to collect info on something, thats probably what they're going over in the weird basement looking room. maybe something on Max ?

7. Lucas, Dustin and Will seem to be surrounding Mike at the lunch table. Mike looks as if he's writing something down, possibly relating to the radio that's, for some reason, on the table. reminds me of the morse code scene in s2, just not sure how that'd tie in. (also Dustin looks bored in that scene ??)

8. William Byers is either getting Vecna visions or he's experiencing the same thing he was in s2 with the "shadow-walking". i also think he could be lying about it for the sake of keeping others from worrying, like in s2.

9. Hopper doesn't seem to be with others through the entire video, the only clip we get is from the Upside Down. El also doesn't seem to be with others so i'm assuming they're together ??

10. Joyce is veeeery similar in costume design to her s2 self so there's gonna be something similar in terms of plot. considering that both Mike and Will also have the same shoes from s2 but inverted, i'm assuming the dynamic between the three is going to be the same. protective Mike and Joyce.

thats all i have for now ! please share and fill me in on other cool stuff you guys have noticed !!

[warblogs17282]

Look, I like reading Stolago fanfics and all that, but I'd be lying if I said that Stolago shippers don't come out with some of the worst takes I've ever seen in regards to Stolitz, so allow me to weigh in my opinion on this.

Short Answer: Stolago would not work in canon.

Long Answer:

Point 1: The 'is Stolago an incest ship' debate.

We don't know. It's implied that Paimon has given birth to a lot of children and can change animal forms, making it very possible that Stolago is an incest ship, but at the same time, that doesn't automatically mean that Vassago is biologically related to Stolas, so I can't make a judgement on this point until we know more about Vassago's character.

Point 2: But Stolas went with the BTB guy!

Pay close attention to Stolas and Blitz after the BTB guy asks Stolas to dance with him, notice how Stolas was basically silently asking Blitz for permission to dance with the BTB guy, and Blitz also silently gives permission for Stolas to dance with the BTB guy. So it's not like Stolas just went 'oh cool this guy wants me, fuck you Blitz I'm fucking dancing', and that silent act of asking for permission proves my point.

Also, Stolas was very drunk during this section, and we know people who are drunk don't tend to think very clearly, so I really cannot blame Stolas for having that dance with the BTB guy, especially when we factor in the cocktail of everything being emotionally heavy for Stolas, and Stolas generally feeling alone and isolated during most of the party.

Plus, Stolas has no history with the BTB guy at all, so even if it does turn into a one night stand for Stolas, there's not gonna be much emotional connection between them. One of the main reasons Stolas fell for Blitz like he did is because of their shared history, all those years ago at the circus.

What was the point of me mentioning all of this exactly? The point is that Stolas and Vassago also have no shared history with each other to what we know, plus, Stolas quite literally says in s2 e1 "my first ever friend!". Plus, it expresses my dislike of the 'Vassago could be a rebound for Stolas' that I've seen float around a few times.

Point 3: Stolas has moved on/will move on from Blitz.

Ah yes, this Stolas?

The same Stolas that silently asked Blitz for permission to go dance with the BTB guy?

"would be an indicator I didn't want to talk right now."

"Seeing you right now is hard!"

Notice the phrase of "right now" that's used twice?

Stolas at no point said he never wanted to talk to Blitz again, only that he wasn't comfortable with doing so right now, because the emotions associated with that night are still very heavy and hard to process for Stolas.

This fact is further backed up by the fact that Stolas never blocked Blitz's phone number.

one more, this Stolas? for the car trip home.

Point 4: "Blitz is just an asshole who feels no remorse for the things he's done to others."

I could dive deep into Blitz's character to disprove this point, but I'll let the examples do the talking for me.

Moxxie: Do you remember what you said to me after my first day with the company?

Blitzo: ...Not really.

Moxxie: I remember. You told me I did a good job and that you were proud to work with me. I feel like you wanted to say something more judgmental, but... you said that because I needed it... And it helped.

Blitzo: Look, I'm hard on you, because I know what you're capable of, Mox. You care too much about what everyone thinks except for... me, because, y'know, my opinion is correct, but just... keep doing a good job. 'Kay? You shoot 'n kill good, you escape things easy... you can be strategic and cold-blooded when you need to, aaaand don't expect any more compliments; I'm maxed out.

Moxxie: Thank you, sir.

Blitzo: You know my name... Use it.

Moxxie: Thanks, Blitzo.

This Blitz?

This Blitz?

This Blitz?

THIS BLITZ??????

There's plenty of other examples I could put here, but I'll leave it here.

Point 5: "Blitz will just move on eventually."

Do you all seriously think that Blitz saying "your boring as fuck monogamy" wasn't foreshadowing Stolitz happening?

The Blitz that's angry that the BTB guy is 'stealing' Stolas?

The Blitz that admits the only person he actually wanted to sorry to was Stolas?

The Blitz that lets Stolas dance with the BTB guy without causing much of a scene, despite how much it hurt him to do so?

Plus, not to mention all the times in the past where it's been shown that Blitz cares for Stolas, including his wellbeing.

Point 6: "Stolitz has no chemistry"

I'm not even gonna bother covering this point, you clearly haven't been paying any attention to the show at all if you unironically think that Stolitz has no chemistry.

Point 7: "What about a love triangle?"

lost-romantique has already made two great posts on the matter, go check that post out.

Finally, I'd like to briefly talk about how Stolago being canon would undermine the plot of helluva boss by quite a bit.

Stolitz is one of the key relationships in the show, and the show revolves around Blitz, including his relationships, so naturally Stolitz is one of the key things for Blitz's character growth, so ending Stolitz for Stolago permanently would stunt Blitz's character growth quite significantly, undermining the plot of the show as a result.

Not to mention it'd also undermine Stolas' character growth as well, considering one of the main things that Stolas needs to work on is the classism, and rebounding to another prince won't help with Stolas unlearning his biases and such, overall making Stolago a rather bad idea for the plot as well.

Plus, even if Stolago was to become canon, it most likely isn't lasting more than an episode anyways, because this scene in the trailer could imply to us that Stolitz is getting a new beginning.

Another thing is that we know nothing about Vassago at the moment, and the things we can imply about him in regards to his title of prince points more to Vassago being a support figure/friend for Stolas (something Stolas badly needs atm) rather than a rebound for Stolas.

I will repeat, I enjoy Stolago in fanfiction and such, but can you all at least admit it's a bad idea in canon and to stop hating on Blitz so much and accept both Stolas and Blitz for the fact that they're both lovable and flawed characters please?

[laquiet]

So... I forced my friend into watching Stranger Things (pt. 2)

I remember that I said we were on Season 2 the last post... Well, actually, we were on Season 3. I have NO IDEA what happened, it was some kind of delay in our brain, she simply said we were in s2 ep7 when we were actually on s3 ep2, AND I THOUGHT SHE WAS RIGHT LOL

We spent like, 20 minutes trying to undertand why she seemed to remember stuff about the episodes she supposedly had already seen.

SO... I'm gonna talk about her reactions on season 3

1. About Nancy and Jonathan

It was the highlight of season 3 for her, along with Max&El friendship. And it was REALLY FUN to see her talking about how they only do shit every damn time and don't actually solve shit... I... just look at it lool:

"Oh no, Jon and Nancy😭" "These two just keep all season trying to solve everything on their own and in the end they don’t solve anything🤡" "I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE LOOOL" "EVERY DAMN SEASON THAT HAPPENS" "Guys, did you notice things go better when you're with adults? TELL THE ADULTS"

Plus, she said that in ep3, right after Will destroyed Castle Byers:

"I DON'T WANT TO SEE JON AND NANCY GETTING INTO TROUBLE FOR THE THIRD TIME IN A ROW! SHOW ME WILL, TELL ME HE'S FINE"

However, she really had a soft spot for Jancy. By the end of the season, when the Byers were moving, she said more than once that "they should get married already."

2. About the Spy Squad - Steve, Dustin, Robin and Erica (yes, she named every group)

"Well, they're already ahead of Nancy and Jon. Those two did investigations for 3 seasons and got nowhere, while these guys, in 5 episodes, are in a Russian bunker 🤡" "Damn, Robin got the Russian code right, huh"

My girl was impressed by Robin.

"Robin is really smart if she understood Back to the Future drugged"

That was one of the phrases about Robin...

Anyways, she loved her, praised how intelligent she was multiple times and got this close with shipping Steve and Robin, but she got happy when Robin turned out to be lesbian (she didn't think the writers would have the guts, lol).

And she kept saying "Dude, you were right, I really like Steve now", AND I TOLD HER SHE'D LOVE HIM (I mean, who doesn't?)

Also, she thought Erica was weird, but as soon as Erica said they were doing "child endangerment", Erica became one of her favorites, I'm sure of that. The only one with common sense.

3. About Max and Eleven

I can't say much, she just loved them a lot. She thought Max was being good when helping El with her relationship with Mike and helping her to figure out herself. But. Really irresponsible when it was about using El's powers. Recently, she said Max and El were her favorite duo, besides Will and Mike.

Now... I will divide this post into two just so it won't stay so long.

[findafight]

I think the most insufferable part of the “Steve is the worst” refrain is that even when the change is acknowledged, they constantly make out like he’s on thin ice.

But the funniest part has to be that they write this whilst also having pretty much every new main cast member they add to show take a shine to him;

Billy just wants Steve to pay attention to him (and was bitterly disappointed that Steve was just some dude and not the raging asshole that everyone’s told him about)

Max hates teenage boys, but concludes she has found the one good one

Robin enjoys his company despite herself and becomes soul bonded to him

Eddie ends up being straight (I’m sorry) up *enchanted* by Steve, and we have a whole scene of him trying desperately to communicate this to him - of course Nancy wants you, dude! Who wouldn’t?

I know we’ve joked about Joe’s charisma, but canonically Steve’s must be *otherworldly*. Clearly the only reason Nancy didn’t let him fuck that old man was because the writers needed to make things difficult for them.

The show simultaneously trying to remind us Steve used to be a dick but is actually the most charming lad in all the land and is everybody's favourite most specialest boy. Like they try to make us remember Steve being mean but then it's also telling us he's a silly billy driving his bestie to school without questioning it and not knowing she doesn't even know how to drive. How are we supposed to think he's gonna backslide.

Lmaooo billy being disappointed Steve's not an asshole. It's no fun winning for him if it wasn't actually a competition :(

Max: no teenage boys allowed

Steve and Lucas: *exist*

Max: okay I will make an exception because they seem very nice

Dustin just consistently telling everyone he meets Steve is the coolest most badass person alive. Can you imagine the hero worship Suzie has heard?? (Suzie is also a Steve Stan and she hasn't even MET him)

Robin spends one month in close proximity to Steve and she's like well. Guess he's my best friend now!! And she was probably actively trying to not like him! And yet here we are! She liked him before they got tortured and she was probably so ticked off about how she, too, has fallen platonically for the Harrington charm. Not fair. Embarrassing.

Eddie spends less than a week around Steve and immediately joins his little cheer squad with Robin and Dustin. Like, if they wanted us to know that Steve was a dick to people for no reason in highschool Eddie would've been the person to use to demonstrate that, or the tension between who he was and who he is, but they don't! Eddie just admits he made assumptions about Steve without knowing much about him other than his rich parents and big house and popularity with girls, (saying more about himself than Steve) and then immediately jumps on the Steve bandwagon because now he can't understand why anyone who spent any amount of time with Steve wouldn't like him!

Even Nancy wasn't immune to Steve's charms in S4, and she had previously broken up with him messily! But all it took was a little bit of the town in danger and Steve trying to make sure everyone's on the same page while Looking Good for her to be Gazing Lustfully at him. That's why S2 and S3 had them separate for so long. Too long around him and she'd remember that she does find him cute and funny and brave and also hot.

Reasons Nancy stopped Steve from Fucking That Old Man: 1) writers needed them finding out info to be more of a struggle 2) they also probably didn't want a middle aged supposedly professional man sleeping with one of their teenage characters I guess 3) Nancy would have been wild with jealousy about the whole thing and stancy revival would have been much more obvious earlier, much more Nancy driven, and much funnier.

[bylertruth3r]

idc what anyone says he totally knew Will was talking about himself in the van scene and Finn keeps saying Mike’s totally clueless cuz saying Mike was happy about Will loving him back would be a spoiler( he also said Mike didn’t know Will was crying in the van when we literally see Mike looking at Will while being worried) and here’s why:

In this scene Mike was mad cuz Will barely talked to him but he used El's name to pretend he wasn't mad about Will not paying attention to him

Which is why I think he knew(or suspected) that Will was doing the same thing to mask his feelings for him during the van scene cuz remember he already knew Will's painting was for someone he liked (at first he thought it was for a girl and got jealous(i explained that in another post) also Will used words from their fight at rink o mania and their heart-to-heart scene in the bedroom: “which is why you decided to be a douche to her (me) all day?” “i feel like i lost you or something” "this year has been weird you know? and you know Max, Lucas and Dustin they're great ,they're great it's just it's hawkins it's not the same without you" “and if she (i) was being mean to you or pushing you away was just because she (i) was scared of losing you just like you’re scared of losing her”  “well maybe you should’ve reached out more”  “these past few months she’s (i’ve) been so lost without you”

this is the face of a gay boy who feels loved in the way he wants to and who realized the boy he’s in love with loves him back 

But then when things got really bad Will told him he's the heart and reminded him of what they talked about in the van so now he thinks he got it wrong and that El commissioned the painting and in the script it says Will's words gave him the determination to tell El those things (which was literally the only insight we got of Mike’s feelings during that scene)

also “you’re the heart”(something related to Byler) is the name of the soundtrack of this scene

also them showing Mike when Will says “what if they don’t like the truth?” and Mike nodding cuz he relates to what Will was saying..

why wouldn’t El(his gf) like Mike loving her back? nah this was about the opposite this was about Mike not being able to love her back cuz yk he’s gay and being afraid of hurting her and about Mike being afraid of Will finding out he loves him which was also why he never told Will the reason of his fight with El which ironically happened the same episode of the stancy break up 

and then ofc Jonathan( who’s in love with Nancy) reassured Nancy(who’s in love with Jonathan) about Steve

                            Wheeler                                              Byers

and Will(who’s in love with Mike) reassured Mike(who’s in love with Will) about El

               Wheeler                                                                  Byers

at the end of s1 Nancy got back with Steve but they still had relationship problems and started dating Jonathan in s2

at the end of s4 Mike got back with El but they still have relationship problems (and El is still mad at him) and he’s gonna date Will in s5(?)

[kiirotoao]

Can we talk about Mileven for a minute. Another reason I don't buy their romantic relationship is the fact that most of their one on ones as a romantic couple (S3) are comedic and not very serious. Where are the deep conversations and when are we ever shown how much they understand each other... post (S2). It's almost like once they started dating they became a joke? Yes they have a few sweet moments but it's also scripted to be laughable. (S4) never showed them having a honest deep convo resolving issues and growing romantically. It could happen in (S5) but at this point I don't see the emotional romantic draw.

And then there is Byler to compare it to, where most of their one on ones are much much more serious, deep, heartfelt, with actual evidence of understanding and talks involving their feelings (which Mike seems to not have an issue with unlike his plot in S4 with El). This, mind you, happens to some degree in every season with Will. If Mike just sees Will as his best friend, why is he so serious about Will especially alone together. Even best friends are more casual then this.

Also a side note. The (S3) Mileven straight stereotype of the 'lazy, lying, clueless boy' dating the 'girl who is playing hard to get to teach her boyfriend a lesson' troupe is icky and makes me want El to find her power solo and Mike to remember that the old Mike (who has a special will voice) is a much better person and boyfriend. Thoughts?

Damn! Well said, dear anon!! I couldn’t agree more.

To anyone who says anything along the lines of ‘oh, Mleven can’t be broken up, they’ve been building up this whole time!’ Or ‘here’s the slow burn everyone wanted,’ or ‘Mike and El have grown so much even after fighting,’ I really don’t understand how any of that is founded. I totally agree and I feel like their relationship has been rather unserious. Even in the most serious love-centered topics of support (s1), connection (s2), breakups (s3), and expression (s4), it’s really interesting to me how their relationship has consistently lacked depth.

Despite dealing with some of the most important aspects of strong relationships, they aren’t close enough to showing, providing, or proving to have one. Mike supports El in season 1 as she does him, protecting and aiding each other with their strengths. But… so does everyone in that season to each other? The only difference is that Mike sheltered El which is very sweet, but not inherently romantic.

Then there’s season 2, which I must confess - I think that their reunion scene at the end of the season remains one of the sweetest moments on the show. Ever. It’s raw and emotional, and this was the closest thing we got to something romantic. But what shoots it down is the fact that their emotion was due to forced separation and Mike’s very real complex grief which gets completely glossed over in the show. So, I don’t know. It’s tricky. So are they romantic yet? They get virtually no time together. It’s a no for me.

And oh yeah, season 3 was the peak of unserious-ness. I also don’t enjoy that trope of ‘the boy chasing the girl who just doesn’t get it yet and she snubs him until the very end’ kind of energy. I swear that that stuff is littered in family-friendly movies usually as comedic relief, and Mike and El just barely made that trope more serious at the very least. Their breakup is dramatized and humorous, and the way that it’s mended still makes me chuckle. Mike offers her M&Ms, compliments her looks, they smile at each other, and suddenly they’re all good again? Yeah, that’s not very clear romance to me. All season long, they keep resisting each other. Mike lashes out to everyone and declares that he loves El but can’t say it to her face, and El has Max’s words tattooed on her heart that she keeps asserting that she deserves trust. The two just don’t quite reach each other that season. The second that I heard Hopper say that they’ve only been kissing all Summer long without complaining about them talking, I knew that I was not going to be invested in their relationship this season.

And so season 4 was truly the nail in the coffin, the final turning point. They’re not only shallow in making up, they’re shallow in being together. El isn’t honest with Mike about her time in Lenora, how she’s spent it, the people she’s met, the fun she’s truly having. Mike snaps about Will being disinterested, so it’s pretty clear that he was dishonest about his true feelings that day, too. And the most telling part is that he’s not mad at El. He’s mad at Will.

I think that what the writers have done is craft something so deeply intricate and hidden with Mike and Will to the point of confusion in much of the audience today. Will has always been a buffer of affection for Mike. In season 1 he’s the one they’re searching for. In season 2, he’s the one that Mike protects. In season 3, he’s the true breakup that Mike fights for. In season 4, he’s the listening ear and bleeding heart that Mike relies on. Their love only gets stronger and stronger whereas Mike and El are simply loving under the guise of physical closeness. I seriously think that that’s all that they have for each other.

That hug sequence at the end of season 4 really shocked me, because when I saw Mike and El hugging (not to mention that shot with Will right between them) I thought that it was sweet, but then suddenly Will and El are hugging, the siblings who are absolutely platonic, and it felt more emotional than Mike and El’s embrace. So not only are Mike and El visually equated to a platonic relationship, but their bond doesn’t even hold the same weight as the sibling-hood of Will and El.

It’s just wild to me that people don’t see it. I think that Byler is made abundantly clear for us to root for. The crazy together scene did it for me the first time I saw it. It was and still is one of my favorite scenes ever because it’s the total package. Closeness? Check. Honesty? Check. Hurt/comfort? Check. Matching, nerdy Halloween outfits? Check. The lack of anyone or anything else to distract them? Check. The crazy together scene is a marker of their relationship, and it never, ever dies.

Even though they fight, where are they years later? They’ve gone through supernatural and personal troubles together, and they’re still by each other’s side. “Friends. Best friends.” The same at heart. They promise to support each other, they reconnect, they come back from every breakup, and they readily express things on their minds and hearts. They’re there for each other and tell each other things that no other boys in the party have told each other.

Mike and El try to understand each other, they do, and sometimes it’s just trying that’s enough, but on a truly intimate level, that’s bullshit. Mike and Will have everything that they need and want for each other, and there’s no going through hoops to get it besides internalized homophobia. Which I very well think can be reasonably addressed next season.

So yep. Byler is endgame.

[didyoupainthis]

I’m gonna say this might be controversial only because I’m blatantly comparing Mileven and Byler but I’m gonna say it now, this isn’t me comparing them in a Mileven vs. Byler way. It’s just what I’ve always inferred about the differences between them based on what’s shown. I’m also someone who only watched ST for the first time last year so I never had any kind of attachment to Mileven which I think makes it easier to notice things imo

I feel like the biggest difference between Mileven and Byler is that Mileven gives teenagers that like each other and Byler gives teenagers in love. I do personally think Mike is probably gay (I say probably because realistically I think he’d just be unlabeled) but he clearly wants to like El because apart from him believing it’s what she also wants, it’s also just what he thinks is ‘normal’

I don’t think Mike and El being actually in love was ever something that we were meant to believe in the first place because the writers have never done anything to show that they are. They’re a typical teenage couple, they’re typically shallow and they’re forcing themselves to bring up ‘love’ because it’s apart of dating. The two have never actually had any heart to heart moments ever since they got together. Every moment they’ve had alone together since S2 haven’t really been meaningful or romantic at all when you break them down; The scenes of them making out, El saying she makes her own rules after Mike said he doesn’t like her spying, Mileven reading the M&M ingredients for reconciliation, El deciding they’re together again, Mileven fighting about love and then the SBP conversation that actually didn’t have a clear topic and was eventually interrupted by Argyle

In comparison, Byler has the love already without even being together. They’ve already passed all the stages at this point, developing their feelings slowly over time but they just never went through this together. They both have had the time to work out their feelings and what they want on their own

I still remember when Caleb said Lucas and Max’s love is real unlike Mike and El’s, that was honestly iconic but also very true. Mike and El clearly love each other but I just don’t think their whole romantic relationship deal was ever supposed to be perceived as ‘deep’ I would say. They’re not each other’s person and they know that. I don’t think El is gonna be finding her person anytime soon for the sole reason that romantic love isn’t even what she wants, nor is it something she was ever ready for. She wants to be loved and she is. She wants to be her own person and she is

And Mike wants to be needed by someone and loved for who he is, despite his insecurities. He wants to feel equal to this person and this person is Will

[ven0moir]

ONE SIDED LOVE IN ST ... SPOILER ALERT: BYLER IS NOT ONE SIDED.

In S2, the show gave us examples on how they set up a requited vs one-sided love triangle ... and what's interesting about it was that Mike mirrored BOTH parties; the one who got their feelings reciprocated and the one that did not. Take a look at how it was blocked.

In the very first scene of the season, Lucas tells us what's going to happen; 'Princess Daphne' aka Max in this analogy, will end up with him (this was confirmed by the Duffers btw. This dialogue foreshadowed Lucas ending up with Max).

When they first see Max, she's introduced as the new student, aka, she is alone/has no friends. When Mike first saw Will, it was the first day of kindergarten and they were BOTH alone too. Then, Dustin and Lucas both approached Max and asked her to join their party. Mike approached Will and asked him to be his friend.

Mike is mirroring both Dustin AND Lucas, which is also why there were TWO Venkmans but Mike insisted they can only be one. (In meta dialogue, only one would get together with their love interest.) Now, I believe this is all FORESHADOWING Mike and Will ending up together (I don't think Mike was aware/had feelings for Will yet)

When they all go trick or treating, Dustin and Lucas end up spending the night with Max while Mike ends up spending it with Will back in his basement. (It is unclear how long they all were trick or treating for/how long Will stayed over with Mike but since it was established they'd be picked up at 9pm, I'm going to assume that's how long they were together)

Now this is where things shift a bit and it is then Will who mirrors Lucas; they both tell their love interest about the supernatural, and ask them to keep it a secret from others.

Then we see Dustin find Dart and get distracted from his crush on Max by taking care of someone mysterious that is unknown to him but fascinating and intriguing. Sounds familiar?

(I might have to make a whole ENTIRE post on this alone tbh, since there's a limit to how many screenshots we can post but boy, these parallels are quite telling.)

In Mike's case, he also sensed that El would be the key to finding Will. Now before you call me a weirdo for this comparison you need to remember that the Duffers did call Eleven and Mike the 'ET and Elliot' of their show. There are blatant ET & Elliot/Mike & Eleven parallels in the show. So Dustin & Dart/Mike & Eleven parallels were done intentionally.

I mean, even in an interview they said Mike felt like he was taking care of a puppy or something like that, which these parallels bring home. What I think they are trying to portray is their CURIOSITY, not any sort of 'love at first sight' instance. Hence why Mike also has parallels to Benny in the way he met Eleven, because he did see her as a person and not some sort of 'pet' or experiment. (I will actually make a post about this since I feel like it deserves the context, but we'll leave it at this for now).

The party split up after they met in the AV Club to discuss Dart. Lucas and Max got closer, Will and Mike got closer, and Dustin went off on his own, then eventually ran into Steve.

And then when the season closes, this happens. Now what's most interesting about this is how Mike is mirroring Lucas. Eleven showed up and he gets to dance with her instead, just like Lucas is dancing with Max (and he even copies Lucas asking Max to dance).

However, he is also mirroring DUSTIN.

Mike looks sad/conflicted because Will is now dancing with a girl, and we see Dustin staring sadly into the distance as Lucas dances with Max. We also see Dustin dance with Nancy-someone he idealized and at some point had a small crush on, but that eventually he will also let go of in favor of someone he connects with better, just like Mike is dancing with Eleven.

I think that what this set up ultimately foreshadows is that Mike's relationship with Eleven was never meant to be a long-term thing. Whether you think Mike is gay or bi, his feelings with Eleven never developed in this way because they were never able to fully connect romantically.

If we think about how Dustin, the one in the one-sided end of things, closed the season, then we would expect Will closing up S4 similarly, correct? They had Dustin close the season dancing with someone else after getting his heart crushed, and Max with her actual love interest, Lucas.

The last time we saw him, he was moving on from Max, so it wasn't a huge surprise that the next season he had a new love interest. It was expected given how S2 ended for him! His crush on Max was hopeless.

It is worth mentioning that Dustin only knew Max for a WEEK and that storyline was still handled with a lot of respect for his feelings. The show didn't make fun of him for it nor did they punish him. He didn't even get flat out rejected-He never confessed to Max nor did we see his feelings develop beyond just a simple crush. But it was clear how Max had chosen Lucas. Dustin didn't need to tell Max that she was The Heart for her to confess to Lucas, did he?

So if we think about Will ... he ended the season standing in a literal field of flowers next to MIKE. If Byler was truly one-sided, Will would've closed the season very apparently MOVING ON from Mike, with Mike very apparently CHOOSING El.

Instead, the show set them up to still be a TEAM in S5. They left the season in a literal cliff hanger in this regard because Byler getting together is going to be HUGE. I am assuming they will go all out. And I honestly cannot wait to see what they do with them.

[rooolt]

In-Depth Rant About Possible Scamster Relationship Timelines Because They Plague Me

okay so! Scamster relationship timeline has been something I’ve tried to puzzle out since episode 23 dropped because the everything about it was so absurdly captivating and Anthony just dropped it and gave us nothing. So originally (and I think I’ve talked abt this before) I had perceived the timeline thusly:

we know for a fact they are together in the flashback in Alright which based on Anthony’s description of the teens most likely takes place a couple of years after s1 bc the kiddads are all still teens. I think 3 years is a reasonable estimate bc if you see the oldest kiddad in s1 as being max 14, that would leave them at 17. I’d say minimum two years and maximum five. Now, there is no way of knowing how long the two of them have been together by the time this flashback is occurring. I think it may be reasonable to assume that it’s relatively new as we know Morgan was still with Jodie in the finale and presumably had to experience some amount of time being together with him to want to leave him. Additionally, the way they talk to each other gives very much “honeymoon phase” energy, not that that’s concrete evidence, but still. Now with the information we were operating under for a large portion of s2, (probably up until episode 45ish if I remember correctly) scam and Jodie were Hermie’s parents, and scam left Jodie pretty immediately after Hermie was born. Working under that assumption, and the long held assumption that Hermie was 15, this would place them as having been in a relationship for about five to seven years (s2 takes place 25 years after season one, meaning Hermie (if he was actually 15) would’ve been born 10 years after season one and if they had been dating starting anywhere from three to five years after season one, there’s the math) WHICH IS A BIG NUMBER. And for a while that was crazy to me, that plagued me right I thought about that all the time.

AND THEN

AND THEN Anthony Burch dropped a piece of information that SHATTERED MY WORLDVIEW. Hermie the unworthy is not a person (or demon scam creature) he’s just a scam and he’s AT MOST like three years old. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR THE SCAMSTER TIMELINE!!! Here’s the thing. There is nothing Anthony Burch can say that will fully retcon Hermie in my mind as not Jodie’s son. It comes up so much, Jodie sees him that way, literally claims he was “scammed out of a son”, Hermie and Taylor are referred to as related multiple times, there’s nothing you can do to retcon that. Therefore, despite being a creation of scam, Hermie is still technically Jodie’s son. What do I mean by that? Personally, I like to think that whilst creating Hermie, scam knew that it takes two parents to make a child and thus pulled “dna” (I assume it’s like magic bc neither of them are human) from both himself and Jodie, either because that was the last long running relationship he was in, or because it was the funniest option. This, I think, leaves us with two possible options for the scamster timeline.

Original scamster timeline is correct/they broke up sometime earlier, but then three years pre-canon scam likely decided it would be fun to make a kid but didn’t want to deal with baby stuff so he pulled stuff from himself and Jodie to make like a 12 year old and then when he got bored of it not only did he implant fake memories into both hermie and his adoptive parents, but also within Jodie, making him believe that they had a son together 12 years ago but scam ran away with him, breaking up with Jodie in the process

scam and Jodie had actually been together for almost 20 years straight and Jodie was aware of, and maybe even excited about, the kid scam was making, but then scam just immediately whisked him away, implanting him within a mortal family. The reason I say they stayed together instead of breaking up and getting back together is the way jodie talks abt it, it seems as though he was blindsided by scam leaving him. This is obviously the less likely (ha!) option, but I think definitely still a possibility

n e ways, I’ve most definitely considered this in far more depth than either Anthony Burch or Jimmy Wong have, but there is something deeply wrong with me and they plague me.et me know if you have further thoughts or evidence suggesting a more canonical scamster timeline.

[thestrangestthing89]

Will manifesting Eddie, Billy, and El.

There is a lot more to say about El being a manifestation compared to Eddie and Billy. She got the most screen time of the three. Brenner's attitude towards El: We see that Brenner favors El above all the other kids in the lab, to the point where they are jealous of El. But we aren't given a reason why. In fact, we are told a lot of reasons why she isn't special - she isn't the most powerful or the most skilled, she is the weakest. He doesn't coddle her either and is instead cruel pretty much every time she can't do something to his liking. She disappoints him, yet he seems to have high hopes for what she can do. His behavior is very manipulative and he's kind when he needs her to do something and cruel when she doesn't do it right. He flatters her with "only you can save them" nonsense when we plainly see that she struggles to save them. We know in S1 and S2 it wasn't just her that saved Will, it was the whole group. In S3 and 4 it not only was the whole group, but El fails to save anyone. She does a lot wrong. But she is constantly told she is special and their only hope. It doesn't add up with what we actually see happening. And this manipulation (by both Brenner and Owens) isn't just when she is the only kid in the lab. He acted like this when there were many kids. So he could have relied on them instead of her. We know he didn't tell her the full story about Henry. He admits to cherry-picking memories. I think what we are being shown here is more El's origin story as it relates to Will. These aren't her memories, which is why she doesn't remember them. She doesn't have them. But Will does and I think he's repressing them (or as I said in my post about Billy, he's putting all of the things he doesn't like about himself onto other people). I think Brenner is interested in her because out of all the other kids in the lab, she was created in a different way - by Will. If she ends up being powerful that means he can create more superheroes through Will.

So in going along with my theory about Eddie and Billy, I think El ends up being related to his childhood trauma. The first thing that happened to him that led to everything else. I think this is related to his father given how much Brenner resembles Lonnie and his relationship with Will (at least what we know of it so far). In this case, Will manifests El through the abuse he suffered from Lonnie as a child. We know Lonnie called Will gay slurs and it's been heavily hinted that there is physical abuse and sexual abuse as a part of this (like Brenner and El). We don't know when Lonnie left or what happened here exactly, but I would guess something significant happened when Will was 7 since that was the age El was in those memories in S4. I think El is a reference to parts of Will's psyche he is struggling to accept. Like Eddie is his ego and Billy is his id, El is his superego - the hyper-vigilant, rational side to him. El likes rules and structure. She needs things to be orderly so she can understand them. She punishes the bad guys because she is the good guy. It's a simplistic superhero narrative and one that a child would come up with when they are distressed. He created a superhero to save him, like he created Billy to put his MF trauma on, and Eddie to put his insecurities about being different than everyone else on. That beings said, I think that once these manifestations are created they are real people with their own thoughts and actions. But I think Will can unintentionally manipulate things when he feels strong emotions - ie he gets jealous of all the time Mike and El are spending together so he has El dump his ass and run off with Max.

Will and El's relationship: For 2 people whose stories are so closely tied together, they have very few interactions. El is very determined to save him though, even though she doesn't know him. And there is still that unanswered question from S1 - El recognized Will's picture but we don't know how. I think this goes back to when Will originally manifested her. I think she remembers a little bit about this but not all of it. She doesn't know enough to know that Brenner's memories about Henry are fakes. Throughout the entirety of S1, El is mistaken for Will. They are interchangeable. Hopper thinks he's chasing ghosts. It's interesting to note here that El's limited verbal skills prevent her from explaining herself and her relationship to Will. Much in the same way that El's mother, Terry, can't communicate with words. A similar thing that Will struggles with in S2 when he's possessed. He uses his art because he can't figure out how to describe how he's feeling verbally. I think El, and by extension Terry, are representing how Will is struggling to talk about his trauma, in this case about Lonnie. They don't talk because he isn't ready to talk about this yet. There is so much that could be said about the comparisons between Will and El but here are a few: - There is a moment early on in the season when Mike is in front of the D&D board and you see the little wizard piece meant to represent Will the Wise. The piece is facing off against the 3 headed dragon and is surrounded by what looks like other monsters. The very next scene is El at Benny's facing off against the lab guys and Brenner. She gets surrounded by them and is able to escape. - El being afraid of small spaces is something that doesn't come up again. She doesn't want to be in the closet in Mike's room. This obviously has a lot of subtext for Mike's sexuality. But this scene happens when Jonathan shows up at Lonnie's and checks the trunk of the car for Will, heavily implying Will was put in there by Lonnie at one point. It makes me wonder if we will see Will struggling with this at some point (and Mike comforting him about it). - When El checks in on Will in the void at the end of the season, he's at Castle Byers in the UD. Will isn't surprised to see El. As far as we know, he never saw her before. But this random girl showing up and telling him to hold on a little longer doesn't surprise him. And it's not because he's barely conscious. The next scene with Will he is singing and he is able to sit up and he's alert. So he notices. They both know each other.

- Will and El both die at the same time. Will in the UD, and El sacrifices herself to the demogorgon. At the hospital, Dustin is telling Will that El is "basically a wizard". Will the Wise is a wizard. - At the end of the season, Hopper gets in a car outside the hospital and goes back to the lab. It's implied in S2 that he made a deal to keep things in town quiet for them. But Hopper keeps an awfully close eye on both Will and El all season. It makes me wonder if he was told to keep an eye on El for Will's sake. I think he knows more about what happened with Will then he's letting on. Hopper's relationship with El/Will is very interesting. He's the protector. He goes out of his way to not only keep them both safe but keep them separated. He is the only one of the characters in S2 who knows everything that is going on. He knows the lab is the only place that can figure out what is happening with Will, so he keeps Joyce in Hawkins. He knows El isn't safe from the lab if she leaves the cabin so he keeps her inside. He knows the town isn't safe from the lab so he keeps secrets about the tunnels. He keeps El hidden from everyone even though she seems to know something is going on with Will all season because she was spying. Out of all the characters, I think it's Hopper who already knows everything that is going on with Will and El. There is also the tie in with his daughter. He has flashbacks to Sarah dying the entire time he's looking for Will in S1. There are so many comparisons to be made between Will, El, and Sarah. I have seen people suggest that Sarah is a fake memory like the fake memories of Henry that Brenner showed El in S4. I think this is possible. In that case, I think it's Will who likely has the real father/child relationship with Hopper and not El or Sarah. He's the anti-Lonnie. The father that actually protects him and takes care of him. And I think there is a strong possibility that Hopper has a lot of this figured out already. At least up to the point where he knows Will is manifesting things (likely not about Sarah). I think he wouldn't tell Joyce about something like this because it's tied to his trauma with Lonnie and I think it's been made clear that Joyce doesn't know much about this. So Hopper does what he can to protect people without giving too much away. And he knows the lab is the best place to keep an eye on Will even though he doesn't trust them, because they know about where El comes from. It's a good way to keep an eye on everything and everyone.

In S2 there are a couple things to note: - El gets "rebirthed" through a tigers paw painted on the wall of the school. Tigers are frequently associated with Will. He brings her back to life when he is struggling with his memories of the UD. - When Mike is being interrogated by the government about El's whereabouts the woman tells him "the stories she told you aren't true". On the surface of course this is meant to get him to not trust El. But nothing is ever as it seems on the surface with this show. This line combined with the many references to El being compared to Will, and Max asking her if she is real are meant to point out the obvious - El isn't real. She is part of Will. What she says isn't true - a theme that continues through S4. El frequently lies. Oftentimes unknowingly/unintentionally. But it's still meant to indicate that what she says shouldn't be taken as truth. S3 is seriously wild. I don't even know where to start with this except that I think it needs it's own post because I think everything in this season is happening in Will's head. Or at the very least, is all being heavily influenced by his strong, uncontrollable teen hormones and angst. S4 is the first time we actually see El and Will interacting regularly. And it's really not much. They spent 6 months living in the same house but they aren't close. El gets bullied in school, which is a thing that usually happens to Will. But here she takes up the role of protector again and keeps him safe from the bullies. They don't even notice him because she is there. She's like a shield. I think El's separate storyline in S4 is partly due to Will getting more confident and partly him freeing her from this need to save him. He is becoming stronger on his own now. I don't think it's a coincidence that we see El have the same hair as Will and wear his clothes at this time. She also spends this season finding out info on their past at the lab. I think they are morphing into one person. Will is getting stronger and is more ready to take on his past in a way that he wasn't before. But he is still using El to confront these things. I think Will becoming more confident and confronting his past will coincide with him becoming more powerful and El becoming less centered in saving him (and everyone else). Like Billy and Eddie, I think El will eventually be killed off (like S1) or become a part of him in some way. I am reminded of what Henry said to baby El after he killed all the kids in the lab - all of those people he killed became a part of him and he could still hear them in his head. So I think in this way, El, Billy, and Eddie, still exist as they are a part of Will. But I don't think it's a coincidence that El doesn't seem to be in the next season much. Will doesn't need her to save him anymore.

[stedelovemail]

just unleashed a lot of General S2 Thoughts on twitter but i'll crosspost them here too. a lot of it is me agreeing with things that have already been said. ineloquent love-fueled criticism in here

i am still on my initial first 3 episodes reaction that everything is too fast; it's unfortunate that there are only 8 episodes this time and they're trying to put so much into them at the cost of good pacing and satisfying arcs because this show deserves better than that. i/we all know it COULD be better and that's exactly what we want for it, but alas: max.

i'd probably have stronger reactions if they had more time to flesh out everything they're trying to do – if i had more time to process everything they're trying to do 😭 there still is a lot i'm enjoying, though. the main relationship of course; most of everything w/ the crew, especially when they aren't separated! bc i'm kind of sad about the swede being apart from everyone, and now buttons too.

and archie: she's definitely likeable but we still really don't know much about her, let alone enough to really feel the connection between her and jim…? meanwhile olu and zheng are indeed a "well they're cute!" situation but i don't understand why they're doing it after how big of A Thing jim and olu were in s1. they were the secondary protagonists. now they have less screentime and importance it seems. and who do we have getting more of that instead… oh boy.

i really wish they didn't embrace the fandom white guy favoritism bc izzy's arc is just. insane. mindboggling. completely different character here, plucked straight from woobie fanon to replace his canon self. they want us to fill in the gaps re: development we didn't actually see, but i can't. it was so annoying watching the fandom push oluwande and jim aside to claim that izzy was the third most important/main character, and now they might as well have just done that. it was annoying to see the fandom apply ed's traits and development to izzy in order to sympathize with him, and now they've kinda done that too.

zero acknowledgment (as of right now) of shit he did and now i have to just remember the silk dressing gown dialogue while izzy comes up to ed wearing another robe in bed with stede and congratulates them on having sex?? being in drag after he was the most femphobic motherfucker throughout s1? getting to sing (and ruin that whole scene) to an admiring crew after the whole 'give us another song eddie!" thing that was torn away from ed in s1e10? i'm so over this. i wish he had just gotten worse bc who's this man being so kind and open and giving RELATIONSHIP ADVICE out of nowhere, he's gone from tolerable to completely unbearable for me which sucks with how much screentime he has now. like, go away already.

anyway there's still the finale to hopefully fix some things. i'm not overly worried about ed and stede since it's already obvious they're gonna reunite, but i am a lil worried about how the VERY end will be. david promised something satisfying though, so….. agh…..

[jjs-brainrot]

Alright, finally finished all the anime I was keeping up with for the Summer 2024 Anime season that isn't continuing into the Fall season (Oshi no Ko S2 technically has 1 more episode but my opinion on it isn't going to change at this point).

I was originally thinking this would be a pretty slow season, but I ended up with way more shows that I was obsessed with then I was expecting. My only complaint was it seemed like the majority of shows I was keeping up with this season just got ignored a lot of the general anime community.

Like that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it definitely felt weird being one of only a handful of people actually hyping up a bunch of the shows that I felt were the best this season had to offer.

A-Tier (Shows that I became obsessed with and were the highlight of my week)

VTuber Legend: Easily the best and most unhinged yuri this season. Will be the gold standard that all future VTuber anime projects will have to be compared to.

Mayonaka Punch: Vampire x Cancelled Youtber yuri. An absolute romp every single week right up to the end. Another strong addition to P.A. Works' collection.

Dungeon People: Another strong contender for the "how would a fantasy dungeon actually work?" sub-genre that's starting to form. Only instead of an ecosystem, it's a work place this time. Also has some strong max level wizard x high level rogue yuri.

B-Tier (Good shows that I can definitely recommend giving a try)

The Fable: A pretty solid yakuza/hitman crime drama/comedy. Definitely much more emphasis on the drama then the comedy but it was consistently good drama.

My Deer Friend Nokotan: Deer girl doing deer things the anime. Humor could be extremely hit-or-miss and it veered more into being weird for the sake of being weird a lot of the time. That's not really a bad thing exactly (I've definitely enjoyed my fair share of "lolrandom" anime over the years), but the swerves were starting to get a bit tiresome by the end.

Oshi no Ko S2: Yup, that was Oshi no Ko. I don't honestly have much to say about it tbh. I enjoyed it enough that I kept watching it every week and would be down for a third season, but I also barely remember half of what happened this season.

C-Tier (shows I liked but were very flawed)

Plus-Sized Elf: If you're looking for an ecchi about bbw fantasy race ladies moving around with their tits frequently out, this is the anime for you. The only thing that really held it back for me was the half length episodes.

Quality Assurance in Another World: Video game QA testers getting isekaied. A neat concept and had some fun ideas but the pacing was just bizarre and frequently left arcs feeling unfinished before moving on to the next ones.

(S)pecial-Tier (For series that I've already read the source material. Can be either positive (+) or negative (-).)

Sengoku Youko (+) (continuing into next season): While the quality has been more up and down compared to season 1, it's still been a solid adaptation so far.

Spice and Wolf S1 (+): Another excellent adaptation of Spice and Wolf. We'll have wait until next season to start getting into more books not covered by the first anime, but I am happy we finally got book 3 in anime form.

(D)ropped/DNF/Do not Recommend Tier (only counting anime I've watched 6+ episodes of)

Nothing

[wakeupthemembersofbylernation]

as someone whose classmate is part of the general audience, i can confirm they don't remember most character names.

they only remember el, nancy, joyce, hopper, max and steve. they only know will as "the lonely quiet kid who disappeared in s1 and got possessed in s2" and mike as "the group leader who got dumped by el in s3".

when i asked them: "jancy or stancy?" they looked at me with confusion in their eyes. they don't care about ships at all. so i doubt they'll get worked up about the willelmike love triangle and byler becoming canon. they'll have a mildly neutral-to-positive reaction to byler endgame, most likely.

yeah that makes sense.

being hyper fandom engaged is only a small, but very vocal subsection of humans haha. apparently most people just watch media without injecting it into their veins, can you imagine? 🤯

I mean, it honestly sounds so peaceful though. Going into each Stranger Things season blind, hyped for whatever it throws at you, without any fandom baggage or vested interest in specific ships working out?

It’s a double-edged sword though, cause a lot of people really don’t care about mike or will. And it’s like, how are you not seeing the beauty of these characters?! Hopefully season 5 handles their arcs well so the GA can finally see Will as the icon he is and Mike as more than “an asshole.”