#the magnus archives analysis

[neatoburrito12threeto]

Jonathan Sims is an interesting character because despite having a powerset well suited to a trickster hero type, my boy is hopelessly direct.

Depending on the point in the timeline, he's either running away, barely surviving, or just kind of... knowing his way to problems, and then bulldozing them.

[my-heart-of-heart]

So normal about Jon being like I don’t remember what you looked like but the man who let you die is going to suffer for what he did to you. If only Sasha coulda seen that.

So normal about Jon being like you died hating me and wanting me dead but I’m still gonna make sure this man knows I’m ending him in your name. Sure wish Tim coulda seen that.

So normal about the fact that everyone believed Jon was losing his humanity but no one got to see the ways his love and compassion for the people he lost or who hurt him drove him to that final moment.

So normal about the fact that even after everything Jonah’s done to Jon, the only person he never thinks to get justice for is himself.

[abessive-art]

*Archives your Magnus*

[ceaselesswatchersspecialboy]

Relistening to Checking Out, and I’ve always liked this scene in particular, as it is one that’s very open to interpretation.

I believe, from what I’ve seen personally at least, one or the most common interpretations is that Helen’s observation is either incorrect, or intentionally misleading, and that Jon’s response actually stems from touch aversion, or a degree of it, attributed to his trauma, particularly moments where he’s been left helpless and at the whims of others. E.g. Kidnapped by the Circus, almost killed by Daisy etc. And while I think this interpretation is both interesting and plausible, I don’t think I’ve seen much for the opposite interpretation, which is that Helen’s observation is correct.

It can be difficult to talk about Jon’s humanity sometimes, as there’s a lot of nuance and layers to cover. The fact is, Jon, especially in season five, does not completely think like a human. He is simultaneously a painfully human character such with deep compassion and guilt and self-loathing, while also being a being of immense knowledge who sees and understands the world in a different light, and in a way no one else can possibly comprehend, which has to be very isolating all things considered.

As with everything in TMA, Jon makes a choice, and his choice is to end the apocalypse, to stay with Martin, and to stay as human as he possibly can. We know from Annabelle that had she have taken Martin, who is presumably acting as one of his main anchors to humanity, Jon potentially would have snapped completely, the final push over the edge as she puts it. It has to be a difficult thing for him, to try and balance his existence when he is so fundamentally changed, and when this world naturally feels right to him, and you could argue that him snapping at the mother here is simply his instinct, being what he is.

He is The Archivist, the meant-to-be Pupil of the Eye, one of the most important beings present, and so it makes sense there’s almost an instinctive detachment from the victims. He is meant to Watch them, and Watching means no physical interaction. By touching him, the mother has broken this barrier, and so, instinctually, he reacts — with anger, notably.

I’d say it’s meant to contrast how we see him acting prior to the touch, where he seems genuinely sympathetic with the mother, and he is trying to help in what little way he can. Because before she touches him, that gap between Watched and Watcher is still firm in place, and so he can handle that.

Bearing in mind, I haven’t re-listened to the rest of season five with this, so I may have missed something.

I also think both interpretations can co-exist too, and that could be just as interesting to explore. Either way, I find that, with Jon, it’s important to consider his status in the Eyepocalypse and his nature vs his choices, although, his nature vs his choices goes for the whole series I think, as choice is such a consistent theme in TMA and in the Avatars.

[thermodynamic-comedian]

i really really like how michael and helen represent two sides of the spiral.

michael speaks slowly, emphasizing everything, giving you the idea that he's lying to you, but you're never quite sure. and that's the fear. that your own mind is lying to you, that you're going insane, that you can't trust anything you believe. this fear was present in michael shelley's life very prominently, from his childhood all the way to the very nature of his death.

after a while, though, helen speaks with confidence and certainty, leaving no room for doubt, you know she's lying. you know she is. but you can't prove it. and that, too, is the fear. that you're right, but nobody will ever believe you. that it's all fake, everything society is built on is fake and you're the only one who knows. and i feel like the little bit that we know about helen richardson also embodies this fear: she was a real estate agent, a very stereotypically deceptive job. i don't think it's far-fetched to say she probably lied quite a lot to her clients, all while aware of the reality of the situation herself. the idea of being the only one who knows just how fake everything is but never being able to tell anyone.

i think it's so cool that they both became the source of the fear that marked their lives.

[astralsyst3m]

Tim Stoker is Such a fucking fun character to pick apart first of all he copes with humor and I love that.

He is however Very quick to anger when humor doesn't work.

He feels as if he has failed not only Danny but also Sasha, especially since he lost them both to the Same Entity and isn't that the fucking kicker? Losing the Two People he cared for to the same Entity. Tim will do Anything for those he trusts and once you break his trust there is no getting back in his good graces.

Even if Jon was close in a way. Jon hurt Tim, betrayed his trust but Tim in the end was a hurt and angry man who had lost the two people he cared about most and found anyone and everyone to blame.

You could even argue that he lost three people as its commonly thought that Jon and Tim did used to be friends. Tim died for revenge because he felt it was his Duty to do what he could to rid the world of the Stranger. Because He Failed Danny and He Failed Sasha and destroying that which killed them was the Only way he could avenge them, to do what was right, to show to Himself that he didn't fail them.

Tim is an Incredibly complex character who many write off as a comic relief or a sacrifice but damn if he is not the most relatable fucking person in the podcast doing all he can for those he loves. Calling out the bullshit and protecting that last bit of normalcy and hope he has however he can until he Snaps.

[cirrus-grey]

Wait wait wait I'm putting pieces together

From TMA 198, Precipice:

MARTIN Hey, what happened here? Are you both okay? Where is everybody? GEORGIE [Upset] They came for them. Took them away. Like before. ARCHIVIST Oh, god. MARTIN Who’s ‘they’? GEORGIE The… things from the city. You know, the, the ones that serve that big eye.

Georgie and Melanie’s cult (including Celia) were attacked and taken away by the former Archivists who were guarding the Panopticon.

From TMAGP 30, Dead End Job:

ARCHIVIST AT LAST, IT IS MINE!

CELIA …and then the fearless one reached in and grasped me, tore me out, leaving my story to fall away like autumn leaves…

THE ARCHIVIST IS FROM THE TMA WORLD TOO

It came over to this world with Celia when it was kidnapping her from the tunnels. It was locked in the tunnels under the Manchester Institute because it came from the tunnels under the London Institute. It's been trying to find her this whole time because its job was to drag her back to the Fear domains and it failed. It needed her, and the rift, to complete its duty.

That's why the rift was more balanced after it went through with Sam. The Archivist was part of what was unbalancing it! And now the poor thing is lost in a world that no longer has the Eye to guide it, with the wrong victim, and not even a Panopticon to go home to. Poor thing is probably hundreds of years old and just wants to do its job. I hope Georgie and Melanie find it and give it a nice cup of tea.

[the-magpie-archives]

"I thought you might be lost." is one of the most delightfully romantic things Jon ever says to Martin.

It's so devoid of blame, of derision. A truly neutral statement, soft, no touch of sarcasm, no hint of cruelty. A gentle hand reached out to pull him from the depths of the lonely.

Such an unusual phrase for Jon, especially at that time. There's no definitives, it's entirely open to correction, open to being wrong. 'I thought' not I knew. It comes from Jon's perspective, he holds himself out to rejection, something that's hard to do at the best of times.

'you might be lost', not you were, not you are. He respects that this may well have been a conscious choice, that Martin really could have chosen to abandon him, preferring the lonely to the lack of certainty in their relationship. But it retains the softness and love, the worry and care. He was worried that Martin might not be able to find his way back, but not willing to drag him out of a place he might have chosen to be.

And that's not even mentioning the softness with which he says it. In an intense moment of great urgency and importance he's able to drop his fear, stress, and anger, in an attempt to reach the man he loves.

It's such an elegant moment of love; in a second Jon is willing to let go of the gravity of the situation and put all of his being into connecting with Martin, and when it comes down to it, it works.

[hemi-demi]

Sometimes I think about how Jon is such a punching bag in the show and how heavily he was beaten and bullied by the people around him and the narrative and it makes me think about stuff.

On the one hand, it does make me sad. It seems as though the harder he tries, the more people kick him when he's down. It makes it all the more impressive that he kept going regardless, but especially considering my very strong autistic headcanon (not Johnny's fault, he wasn't intending this), it can be a really sore spot. I'd say in a good way, though, in a hurt/no comfort sort of way. It's weirdly therapeutic.

On the character side of things, I do understand why everyone treats him that way. Not that he necessarily deserves it (though Jon has said and done plenty to earn some shit back, he's not perfect either), but everyone around him is stuck with him and fucking pissed about it. It's easier to redirect their hatred and pain to Jon - who just kinda takes it - than Elias or literal Eldritch gods. People hurt easier targets when they can't hurt the people that are actually ruining their lives.

Then I think about it in the meta sense. It's easier for Jonny to beat up Jon as well. I especially saw this in my own writing of fanfic of the series. When you have a main character (especially if that main character shares traits of your own), then hurting that main character is so much easier to process mentally. Not that Jonny won't ruin other characters lives, but they all almost have it easy in comparison to Jon's torment.

This also seems accurate in Alex's way of seeing the characters as well, saying Martin is based on a lot of the stuff he hates about himself when he was younger while also insisting on making their lives worse. (Alex, when I catch you.) It feels like literary self-harm in a way. You're willing to hurt the character you're the most attached to in an effort to give some protection to the rest.

Idk how to end this. Jon needs more hugs.

[underratedgrapeju1ce]

this episode is so agonizingly human. this is like one of the only times jon actually expresses his feelings openly, and even though they argue, martin still treats him like a person. this doesnt feel like martin "talking at" jon, or vice versa. it doesn't feel like elias gaslighting him or basira and melanie invalidating his feelings. it feels like a couple having an argument, albeit a very intense one.

its so. gut-wrenchingly mundane, in the midst of so much supernatural insanity. its one of my favorite episodes

[neatoburrito12threeto]

TMA Team Shooter

What if you played as the various Entities in a TF2/Overwatch-esque shooter? (a lot of these are inspired by my picks in my Team Magnus 2 post.)

The Buried: Despite being a relatively direct fear, I can see the Buried being, like the Engineer, a character based around setting up physical objects, in its case, traps. Might also have a burrowing option. Though I can't see it being particularly fast.

Corruption: Definitely based around damage-over-time/poison effects. Might also be the healer, if there is one.

Dark: Probably the tank/straightforward tough/strong type. Might also be able to inflict some kind of blinded condition.

Desolation: Fire damage. Probably does a lot of area attacks and might be able to destroy structures.

End: I'm thinking the End's gimmick would actually being to do with the respawn mechanic, having the ability to set it's own spawn points. Basically places down Minecraft beds, and "sleeps" in them and then, bam, you can't get the End out of your front lines.

Eye: Definitely an information gathering type, maybe even has a map or something unique to it. Probably has some kind of powerful attack that needs charging up. When you're up against an Eye, it's gonna be over quick, one way or another.

Flesh: Another potential healer. Probably pretty melee focused, might be able to eat somehow, to grow stronger over time. Regen could make sense too.

Hunt: Glass cannon type, fast and hard-hitting. Able to ignore any form of Armor or regen.

Lonely: Probably pretty indirect. Likely gets power from being isolated from the team. Might even be the sniper character, and/or a debuff focused build.

Slaughter: Another damage focused build, likely very built around positioning and specific circumstances, to reflect the Slaughter's usually weak, but occasionally quite strong, nature.

Spiral: Annoying as hell. Few straight damage options, but a teleport (taking the form of opening a door, and hence readable and cancellable.) and able to make illusions of teammates that aren't there. The illusions are generally pretty easy to see through if you focus on them long enough, as they only idle, but during the heat of combat they might be mistaken.

Stranger: Basically Spy TF2. Might in addition have the ability to mimic it's own teammates even those classes that aren't there, to, say, sew paranoia by appearing to be a Spiral.

Vast: Likely long range, tanky, with a flying movement option.

Web: Could be able to actually control other players' movement, but that seems too straightforward. I was actually thinking being able to set up structures and perhaps minions.

Extinction: Saxton Hale style asymmetrical boss, but much more ranged and indirect.

Anyone who knows more about game balance and design should feel free to give suggestions

[my-heart-of-heart]

I’ve always gone back and forth about whether to picture Martin stabbing Jon in the front or the back because there’s such beautiful symbolic potential for both.

Like on the one had you’ve got the image that they’re cradling the knife between them, both holding it during perhaps the closest thing they’ve had to a true act of free will in a long time. Jon can’t press the knife in, but he can ease the blow for Martin. He can tell him it’s okay, that he forgives him even though there’s nothing to forgive. It’s horrible and painful, but it’s also setting them free. The blood would get on both of them as they held each other, and, at first glance, you wouldn’t be able to tell whose it was.

But then on the other hand you’ve got nothing coming between them, not even this, not even now. It’s Jon being killed by the same person in whose arms he’s currently finding comfort—and those two things are not at odds. It’s the potential that, if the knife is long enough, Martin could cut himself as well, but that doesn’t matter because his heart already broke with Jon’s anyway. It’s two people who have always found it so hard to trust taking the ultimate symbol of betrayal and turning it into a symbol of loyalty.

And I don’t know which I love more.

[macabresymphonies]

(minor TMA spoilers and general TMAGP spoilers) Having so much time to think about incidents in TMAGP due to hiatus made me realize that all of them, to some degree, contain the theme of "sealing your own fate" or "consequences of greed/hubris".

You see, while I do not believe that TMA had a consistent theme every statement was based on, the overall messege seemed to be that horrors are inevitable. Once you've been marked you cannot escape, no amount of therapy or running can release you from it. I think Michael Crew is the best example of that:

"The thing that chased me, you see, it was an arcing branch of the Twisting Deceit, taken shape to follow me. (...) And I knew within that book was something that could not only release me from my pursuer, but chain my being to that rush of wind and vertigo forever." Michael Crew in "The Coming Storm"

You cannot escape it once you've been marked, only bind yourself to different one and this marking is, most often than not, nonconsensual. Jane Prentiss would run around and infect random people, Not!Them didn't need anybody to come to them before it was sealed and Peter Lukas also tended to just disappear random people just to feed. The fears were very predatorial and active and the victims were selected based on their own fears and anxieties. This is not to say there weren't victims who failed due to their own curiosity/hubris/greed, but I think it's telling that few of the most greedy/curious people in the series, Mikaele Salesa and Jurgen Leitner, stayed largely uncorrupted by the fears not cause they avoided interacting with them, but simply avoided getting marked by them.

Now we come to protocol and every incident so far has the main subject of that incident actively engage with the horror and have one or multiple points at which they could stop and leave, but they do not. Daria went to the tattoo shop on her own accord, Harriet wanted her husband back no matter what and even Dr Webber was described to be able to leave the garden whenever he wanted, but, due to hiding from authorities, chose to stay until it was too late for him. Every incident so far seems to have this theme of consent, characters detailing very clearly that consent was given to engage with the abnormality:

"Ah well that’s a tricky one. Sort of? In many ways he stabbed himself on me. By the time he saw the needles we were already very close. Close enough to smell his sweat and cheap aftershave. In fact, he barely had time to be afraid before we embraced. He’s terrified now of course…" Needles in "Introductions"

"The young man's interview was not exceptional as he had no experience in charity work, no driving license nor any demonstrable experience in retail. He claimed however, to know the Hilltop Centre better than anyone and as he was the only applicant in the role I elected to give him a try." Dianne Margolis in "Give and Take"

"I hesitated a moment but before I could consider her strangeness a particularly high tide of color swept down the corridor toward me. I panicked, and before I realized what I was doing I had darted inside the lift and slammed the close-door button." Terrance Stevens in "Running on Empty"

It does not matter some of these are under duress or deception, all of them contain some type of action "confirming" consent. Mind you I do not believe all the victims of of these horrors confirm consent in some way, like people who get killed by Bonzo probably didn't agree to it (though considering he's most likely a hitman, some degree of "you agreed to this by overstepping your boundaries" philosophy could be applied), but subjects of the incident very much pay for consequences of their own actions.

That brings us to OIRA itself, and how every character so far seems to actively dig themselves deeper by their own accord, Gwen wants position of power, Colin wants to figure out the system, Sam wants to know why he wasn't chosen and Alice is in it for the money (for her brother which still counts as consent). This is literally said directly to us in episode 1:

"If you hate working here so completely, you are perfectly within your rights to resign. No one is forcing you to stay here." Lena to Gwen in "First Shift"

All of this, all this horror is happening due to their own accord, curiosity, obligation, greed for knowledge or just for the money, it does not matter, the choice is there, but they delve deeper anyway. We will see how long it holds up, but I will be on the look out for this theme in the future.

[ceaselesswatchersspecialboy]

So funny how Jon ended up behaving similarly to his worst childhood trauma, and you could easily compare his growing need for live statements over paper ones to the gradual escalation of the Mr Spider story.

The Archivist wants more.

[thermodynamic-comedian]

i really like the little detail that the fairchilds aren't a real family, but rather just a name, whereas the lukases are a biological family, but deeply disconnected from each other. the vast sees no inherent value in names, they hold no meaning and can be given away like a gift to anyone it wants to mark. the lonely sees no value in family bonds, they can be severed at any indication of disloyalty, but are still preferable to chosen bonds.

[fridayyy-13th]

btw, i firmly believe that if Jon and Martin had met under different, more normal circumstances, they would've gotten along like a house on fire

literally the only reason they were at odds was bc Jon was already stressed about being underqualified for the head archivist position, and that was exacerbated by the Dog Incident and the idea that Elias was waiting for him to slip up & had assigned Martin to the archives to keep tabs on him

hell, i think if they got along from the start, there's a damn good chance Jon would've fallen for Martin first. not by much, given; they're both the type to fall fast and fall hard, but still. (but it would probably take Jon longer to identify his feelings, so maybe it evens out)