#that should be a new tag on my blog lol | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

randomnameless · 1 year

Note

Eh, i'm not sure i agree with the point about needing to have scenes where characters who did bad things apologize to the people they've hurt, especially when it can be inferred that they did so off-screen; Iruka wasn't in the war, Kurama and Naruto only go back to the Leaf after a timeskip, and then there's a 12-year timeskip in chapter 700, and Kurama could have easily apologized to Iruka for what he did during either of those timeskips, especially after Naruto reignited his faith in humanity. Characters can change, regret bad things they've done, and apologize to the people hurt by said bad actions, and i don't think it's necessary to have scenes where they list off all their regrets and apologize to everyone they hurt on-screen.

Also, i don't recall there being any proof Obito had anything to do with starting the Blood Mist tradition, though i could be wrong on that.

Also also, i don't remember the scene very well, but it's fine for Naruto to call Kurama a brother after they spent 12 years being on very good terms and the two of them being nothing but helpful to each other; it's bad if he says that he was one of his first bonds, sure, since that's blatantly wrong, but if he just said that he grew a close attachment to Kurama after all they went through in the og series, that seems perfectly fine to me.

In regards to the Raikage scene, Naruto wasn't arguing that he should forgive Sasuke outright, just that he shouldn't go out and kill him because that'd just cause the people in the Leaf who still cared about Sasuke to hold a grudge against the Cloud, which could spiral into something much worse given enough time; he never tells Ay that Sasuke should go completely unpunished for what he did, just that there's no reason to put out a kill-on-sight order on him.

With the convo between Naruto and Nagato, while it is kinda underwhelming, i think it still works decently, though not as well as Obito's; Nagato's worldview had just been shattered by not only being beaten despite considering himself an almighty god above humanity, but also by Naruto, someone whose life he'd just ruined and who admitted to hating him, refusing to act on his anger and wanting to listen to his side of the story, before proclaiming that he'd find a way to succeed where Nagato had failed and end the cycle of hatred. While it's a bit of a stretch that being proven wrong about being above humanity and seeing one counter-example to his theory that people can't truly understand each other and will always fall back on their anger caused him to change his mind as much as he did, i wouldn't call it a “bad” convo.

It's long so I'll put it under a cut!

Eh, i'm not sure i agree with the point about needing to have scenes where characters who did bad things apologize to the people they've hurt, especially when it can be inferred that they did so off-screen; Iruka wasn't in the war, Kurama and Naruto only go back to the Leaf after a timeskip, and then there's a 12-year timeskip in chapter 700, and Kurama could have easily apologized to Iruka for what he did during either of those timeskips, especially after Naruto reignited his faith in humanity.

Sure anon, but imo, it reads as another dark spot against Kishi's manga -

There wasn't enough screentime for the victims to gain reparation, but we always had the adequate screentime to get the villain's backstory?

As I said in an earlier post, we're eons away from Part 1 Gaara who, just after being beaten by Naruto, apologises to Temari and Kankuro while they're taking him away.

The anime and the manga are different, I know, but even Pierrot (who did wonders for this verse!) had time to show Ino'n'Sakura arguing about a trinket to offer to Naruto and Hinata for their wedding, but no time for, idk, while Naruto isn't sure he should ask Iruka if he can act as his "father figure", Kurama trying to resolve the situation and/or thinking he might be the problem because he killed Iruka's parents all those years ago and deciding to apologise for doing so - with Iruka basically rehearsing what he said in the very first chapter, Naruto is Naruto and Kurama is Kurama, he would have came to the wedding regardless of anything, but he is glad Kurama is now someone who can worry for others like Naruto, and not only the person who killed his parents -

I mean, something, anything else than "and they made up off screen during the timeskip when Naruto gave free wifi access to Konoha".

Also, i don't recall there being any proof Obito had anything to do with starting the Blood Mist tradition, though i could be wrong on that.

I've checked the wiki (i know :() but I was under the impression the Bloody Mist era started when Yagura was the 4th Mizukage? And when we know Yagura was manipulated through Genjustu by Obito...

It's funny because in Boruto we have his grandson (?) who says his family was basically ostracised in the Mist because of Yagura's actions - I guess no one told him or the people of the Mist that Yagura wasn't the demon and despot everyone remembers him as, he was acting like this because he was being controlled ? By Obito?

Grandson dies in the Boruto plot, so hopefully, no one will ever give a fuck about this "who did the Bloody Mist" anymore.

In regards to the Raikage scene, Naruto wasn't arguing that he should forgive Sasuke outright, just that he shouldn't go out and kill him because that'd just cause the people in the Leaf who still cared about Sasuke to hold a grudge against the Cloud, which could spiral into something much worse given enough time; he never tells Ay that Sasuke should go completely unpunished for what he did, just that there's no reason to put out a kill-on-sight order on him.

My Bad, I misremembered!

However, Naruto's pleas are completely worthless because, while I know "death for death" isn't solving anything, Ay's brother was killed by a member of Akatsuki - the same organisation Konoha (and Naruto himself!) has been hunting for years know.

Sasuke's situation is a bit complex, but usually, the second someone joins the Akatsuki, they're a missing nin, a criminal and are marked as threats who have to be supressed.

Sure Hidan'n'Kakuzu happened before Naruto talked to Pain, but I doubt Naruto stopped by the village of Waterfall to talk to people who loved Kakuzu to "break the cycle of hatred" and not take revenge on Konoha.

I don't remember if it's during this moment or later, but Naruto basically pleads for Ay to apply a double standard because Sasuke is his friend.

This is where Naruto as a manga completely fails, and the issue that brought this entire discussion lol - characters face no consequences for their actions, especially when it comes to dealing with victims of said actions.

In his novel (iirc?) Sasuke behaved like an adult - or the better man compared to Naruto - and ultimately went to Ay to apologise for his arm, the Kage Summit and everything else, and Ay accepted his apologies.

With the convo between Naruto and Nagato, while it is kinda underwhelming, i think it still works decently, though not as well as Obito's; Nagato's worldview had just been shattered by not only being beaten despite considering himself an almighty god above humanity, but also by Naruto, someone whose life he'd just ruined and who admitted to hating him, refusing to act on his anger and wanting to listen to his side of the story, before proclaiming that he'd find a way to succeed where Nagato had failed and end the cycle of hatred.

This is the petulant child/tantrum I was talking about, I'm sure if Nagato accepted to listen back the Tsunade instead of Shinra Tensei'ng her to oblivion, he might have had a change of heart, but he was full of himself because of his might in a "might makes right" mindset - as you pointed out, he believed himself to be a god, so he had to be beaten up before finally being willing to listen to people.

I liked the part where Kurama came out during their "discussion", I remember when the raws (a very long time ago lol) were released people were wondering if Kishi made a blooper with Naruto's eyes, but no! Kurama, was also pissed at his story/discourse!

Naruto being the better man/the adult and not bashing his head in was a great sign of maturity from his part* - but then everything failed, because that discussion he had with Nagato about the cycle of hatred and his backstory was... only between him and Nagato.

Nagato solves this issue before it can arisen, but when Choji will ask why his father died, what Naruto is going to tell him? When Sakura will ask for some sort of reparation/justice/consequence against the man who killed both of her parents (assuming they were in the village when it was destroyed), what is going to happen?

Why only Naruto, as a victim, was allowed to get closure/an answer for Nagato's crimes, and not the 48752 other victims who might have had the same grievances?

And again, the cycle of hatred created by Nagato broke, the second he died to resurrect everyone - so there's no hatred to deal with. Naruto had to deal with his own hatred and sadness, accepted to listen to Nagato, and Nagato "undid" all the hatred he created and on top of that, dies, so no one will ever talk him shit for what he did (and undid). That's it.

We don't know if Sakura would have reacted like Naruto, if Shikamaru would, if Chouji would etc etc.

I know the manga is called Naruto and not Choji, but when the answer is supposed to be an answer for the world, it's completely ridiculous that Naruto gives it, and later forgot to tell to the rest of the village what was the result of his discussion, instead basking in the fame of "having defeated Pain".

There's no greated discussion between Naruto and his friends and the village council or whoever about what happened to Pain, what was the "cycle of hatred" and how to prevent future Pains from popping up.

*even if I prefered Asta's version, but in this specific Naruto situation, instead of listening to Nagato's answer and ultimately only talking about Jiraiya this and Jiraiya that and forgetting the 2k people who died due to Nagato's warped vision of "peace", Naruto could have thrown him his og head protector, the thing he received from someone who should, by all means, hate him because the demon inside of him killed his parents - but no, that man put an end to that cycle and became the first person who ever acknowledged him and became his family - and in his trantrum, Nagato killed that man.

of course this entire arc was build around a "child of the prophecy" bullshit - which later needs zombitachi to remind Naruto that no, no one can do anything alone, they need to be surrounded by people and rely on them - so the "you gave up on ending the cycle of hatred but it doesn't mean you should kill anyone who still tries to get rid of it, like Jiraiya, Iruka, random konohasian 86 or even me" since only naruto/nagato had to have the answer, but well, to be fair, that arc and its entire premise was pretty shitty to begin with.

While it's a bit of a stretch that being proven wrong about being above humanity and seeing one counter-example to his theory that people can't truly understand each other and will always fall back on their anger caused him to change his mind as much as he did, i wouldn't call it a “bad” convo.

His theory completely sucked, because wow very surprising, when you kill someone's loved one that someone is going to be pissed.

Sure that's his entire backstory and motto, iirc, some konoha loldiers accidently killed his family (they thought they were other people?) so in the shortcutted Uchiha deduction by Tobirama (tm), the more you love, the more you're going to hate.

Also, the "people can't truly understand each other" theory is rich coming from the guy who hired a psycho like Hidan.

But in general, in Naruto, there's this weird conflation between "understanding" and "accepting" - people can and will understand each other by fighting, and the loser (if he survives) will understand the winner's pov? Or he died, so he accepted it ?

Take post Pain Arc Naruto, if he met, for some reason, Hidan who didn't die before. What was he going to say? To understand with a guy like Hidan? Would he be worried about spreading the cycle of hatred?

Would Naruto tell Shikamaru not to kill Hidan, the guy who nearly had a boner when he executed Azuma?

What did Pain/Nagato (or even Kishimoto in this manga) meant by understanding?

#anon #replies #blogging about naruto lol #i swear i had this post ready since last friday #but i forgot it in my drafts because i wanted to add tags...#anyways maybe it's me because i was a bit young when this arc happened #but imo the Pain arc and its entire building was like the thing that made me reconsider continuing this manga #but i was part of the fandom and those were the 'blessed days'#where you were waiting for raws then translated chapters and then talked to random people on the net and shared opinions and theories and #whatnot about what was going to happen #the entire 'child of prophecy' made me yikes because duh wtf do you mean naruto is a child of prophecy #back when reincarnation nonsense was still far far far away #it was also amidst this era where there was this trend in fandom in general #where sympathising with the vilain was seen as new and not as hamfisted as it is today #but even back then i was like 'why the fuck should i feel bad for this guy who nuked the village of randoms i knew since chapter 1?'#'you killed teuchi and ayame what the fuck are you even talking about teuchi was a guy making ramens'

5 notes · View notes