#that doesnt expect spock to be anything other than himself | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

idontneedasymbol · 7 years ago

Text

Sam & Dean, leadership, control, obedience, and choice

Spinning this off into a new post because this got so long -- I love this topic, so I have many Thoughts! (Most of this is focused on the psychological side of it as explored through fictional tropes -- the mythological side of their chosen roles is also fascinating and deserving of its own post!)

@zmediaoutlet wrote:

I really do feel quite strongly about this, which makes those metas where people insist on calling Dean ‘controlling’ actually a bit infuriating to read. Sam makes decisions; Dean follows. It’s not that way 100% of the time, but it is true way more often than the reverse. It’s part of the deepest core of their natures–which is explained by the archangels they were meant for. Dean is loyal, and Sam rebels. I watched ‘The Vessel’ a few nights ago and was struck so hard by how Dean announces that he shall be the one who goes back to the past. He will be the one who puts himself in danger, because he’s expendable. He states it as a fact, almost bullish… and then still waits for Sam’s permission before he and ‘Castiel’ actually go. It’s just such a fascinating dynamic, made more so by the change-up of roles.

Again yes to all of this. Dean as "controlling" I take as a misinterpretation (--alternative interpretation, though this is a case that I feel strongly enough about the characterizations that I struggle to see the alternatives) of their communication styles -- and Dean's style in particular is molded, not just by John's militaristic upbringing, but by his relationship with Sam.

Dean can be controlling -- especially with innocents in supernatural-emergency situations, it's vital to give orders forcefully enough that you can expect them to be followed. But with Sam, that's rarely what it's about. Dean gives statements of intent to Sam knowing they're not going to be blindly followed -- since he was a little kid, Sam hasn't obeyed him without question. Moreover, Sam has always known that Dean won't actually act without his say-so. (e.g. "After School Special”, in which at 14 Sam is fully capable of letting Dean know what he wants -- Dean is raging "I'll rip his lungs out" about the bully, but he doesn't actually do anything, lets Sam handle it on his own. And it's not played as a "big brother finally lets his little brother out on his own" moment -- Sam is talking to Dean with confidence that he can handle it himself and that Dean won't intervene. He knows Dean has his back if needed, but he doesn't expect Dean to do anything without his agreement.)

Some of the reason this can be misinterpreted is because of their differences in communication and thinking styles. Sam is the kind of person who likes to go into a discussion or argument informed, fully armed -- he doesn't like to talk about anything until he's had time to think it out, to come to a conclusion and come up with counter-arguments, etc. While as Dean is less of a thinker, more of a doer; he wants to talk about what he's thinking/feeling because verbalizing it out loud is how he understands it himself. (Or by acting it, hence him being way more prone to expressing himself through physical violence than Sam.)

The reason this works is because they both understand this about each other.

A lot of their conversations start with Dean making a statement of opinion phrased as an absolute, and then Sam presents his side, softening that absolute. One of my favorite examples is at the end of 11x08:

SAM Dean, we need to seriously discuss me going to the Cage.

DEAN Okay. Not happening. Good talk. ...Sam, even if these visions are real...

Which on its surface can look like Dean is ending the conversation, shutting Sam down. Except that's not what's happening -- that's clearly not how Dean means it, because he immediately continues the discussion. He's not issuing an order to Sam that he expects to be followed -- he's stating his position, clearly telling Sam where his own opinion stands, giving Sam a starting point for his own argument. Which Dean is counting on getting from Sam, because Sam nearly always does.

This isn't perfect communication; it can lead to misunderstandings, and especially when they were younger, Sam could take it as Dean not respecting or listening to him. But they’ve worked like this for a while, mostly effectively. Dean can speak his mind so bluntly, figure out what he’s feeling, with the confidence that Sam will stand up to it. And in the end, Dean usually comes around, unless he can convince Sam otherwise, such as by coming up with an alternative plan.

The one area that this does completely break down is in regards to Sam himself -- the one time Dean will unilaterally go against Sam's "command" is when Sam's own life is at stake, in which case Dean's loyalty to saving Sam comes above obeying him.

And even then, it causes massive cognitive dissonance for Dean. One of the worst tailspins Dean has is in s7, after going against Sam's decision and killing Amy. Dean believes it's the right thing to do, and the right thing to do for Sam; but disobeying Sam and then lying to him about it makes Dean so guilty he can barely function. While as Sam can lie to Dean about the Book of the Damned for weeks without any obvious signs -- Sam feels guilt incredibly strongly, but not about disobedience, not when he thinks he's doing the right thing. Rebellion in itself isn't a sin for Sam -- as you say, it's one of his defining characteristics.

Then @chiisana-sukima had a related but different angle:

I would say that mythically, Sam is a King and Dean is his Minister of War. And I also agree that doesnt invalidate what Jared is saying because I think Sam rightfully doesn’t trust what he’s King of. And that a big part of Sam and Dean’s relationship is that Sam trusts Dean- and uses Dean- to be a check on Sam’s power, and a lot of their conflict is about that issue. Sam only wants and needs a check when he’s wrong, and he’s not always wrong. Sometimes he’s right and Dean is wrong (for example: MoC), so Sam can’t just lie down and do whatever Dean says, but he also can’t trust himself. It’s a hard position to negotiate.

I think this is all true -- and yeah, Sam gets very frustrated when he believes he's right and Dean still isn't coming around. Especially because Dean generally digs his heels in hardest when it has to do with Sam’s life/sanity rather than a moral question, which Sam does not believe is a valid argument (s9 got into this some, but as that argument happens perpendicular to the mostly-unspoken one about Dean violating Sam's bodily autonomy to save his life, it doesn't fully get resolved? And then the Mark temporarily upends their dynamic -- Dean starts giving orders actually expecting to be obeyed, and Sam flips from mission statement: saving the world to saving Dean.)

Dean sort of does double-duty as "Minister of War" and also Sam's bodyguard? Along with comparing it to Maiden Rose (which I would love to hear more about! maybe to discuss in person, as @owehimeverything has actually read it but prefers talking to writing meta) -- we've compared it ourselves to the even-less-known manga G-defend, in which the central (m/m) ship is between a commander of a sort of SF SWAT-team garrison and his bodyguard. The bodyguard is out of the main chain-of-command; he reports directly to the commander and obeys him in everything except matters pertaining to the commander's own safety, in which as bodyguard he has the authority to decide whether a given action is too dangerous for the commander to take. It's the source of some conflict (not a lot, because G-defend is one of the fluffiest BL series to exist, but...)

Sam and Dean's relationship doesn't map perfectly to these examples (in part because all the writers have a somewhat different take on their dynamic, so it can be inconsistent between eps; and I also think it's because this kind of power positioning is really common in Japanese fiction but less so in American fiction -- like, it's fundamental enough that we respond to it really strongly, e.g. Kirk & Spock; but especially without a clear command structure like the military to justify it, that kind of relationship can feel weird to Americans -- like there's something wrong about Dean being 'subordinate' to Sam when they don't have actual ranks, that it's an imbalance that must be corrected, rather than a mutually satisfying and stable arrangement.) But I have some hopes that if the story starts exploring “Sam as leader” more intentionally, it might drift more in this direction (even if by accident!)

My own view is that I do think people who say Sam is submissive to Dean are right. He lets Dean control a huge proportion of the relationship imo (for example: Dean has Baby/Sam has no car. For another example: Dean uses physical violence on Sam way more often than Sam does on Dean, and generally Sam just pretty much takes it). But power is complicated, and my view is that the operative word is let, and that they are both aware that Sam is delegating something that is his onto Dean.

On the one hand, I don't totally disagree? But on the other, neither of these specific examples seem to me like Sam ceding control. Sam doesn't own a car, but he has full access to transportation. If Dean isn't chauffeuring him, then Sam usually can take the Impala -- but if he can't, he simply steals another vehicle (or possibly they have extra vehicles in the bunker?) We've seen Sam driving multiple cars whenever he wants to go somewhere but Dean is out/Sam doesn't want Dean to know. I take Sam's not having a car of his own as him not having much interest in personal possessions (e.g. not personalizing his room in the bunker)(and maybe mixed with a little of feeling "unfaithful" to Baby, given that the only time he ever got a car of his own he was soulless? Sam's relationship with Baby as compared to Dean's is fascinating in its own right...)

And Dean's physical violence is problematic for sure, but I have a hard time seeing it as controlling when it never seems to influence Sam? I can think of three times Dean has punched Sam when both were in their right mind (other than sucker punches or getting into a full fight) (in 2x03, 4x04, and (uggggh) 7x03...season starts are rough times?) and Sam doesn't actually agree to what Dean wants any of those times, or seem more than mildly annoyed by it. (I could go on a long tangent here too, the short version is that I think these moments are the show getting confused about what level of violence it operates at. Sam & Dean are rough-and-tumble sorts such that if we actually saw them hitting each other more -- in anger or in sparring -- it would come across as less significant?)

All that being said, Sam does let Dean take the wheel on smaller things (like choosing music) in part because he doesn't have strong opinions on a lot of it (really, given the scope of the issues Sam often is grappling with, he likely has such constant decision fatigue that he vastly prefers Dean to make the basic choices like where to go for dinner.) And I think a key thing here is the "let" -- Sam could get his way (often with just a word; Dean rarely refuses anything Sam asks for outright) but doesn't feel the need to. So I guess I see it as Sam sometimes agrees to submit to Dean, but I hesitate to call him “submissive”? (Or maybe that’s just a matter of definition?)

Meanwhile, when Sam starts working for the BMOL, he's directing their hunts for two weeks and Dean doesn't see anything amiss in it -- Dean is swinging the machete, but Sam is picking the target; Dean is driving, but Sam is the one telling them where to go. And that's how they both like it, and while it's not perfect (especially if their communication breaks down otherwise -- their biggest issues happen when one of them is keeping a secret and so the other is working with incomplete information), it's largely functional, a mutually satisfying and effective personal and professional partnership.

(And yes, this is one interpretation and there is plenty of room for others! But it's one I see strongly enough that I find it kind of baffling when I come across meta holding that Sam not choosing the music shows that Dean is controlling, or that Dean agreeing to work with the BMOL is Sam overriding Dean's will, when I see both as mutually willing choices, not signs of dysfunctionality.)

162 notes · View notes