#the theory of complementary winchesters

[idontneedasymbol]

The best part of 13x11 was Sam actually emotionally reacting to something -- and reacting in Sam’s way, which is to say, complete denial that he has a problem. Forget talking about his feelings, not when he’s feeling something like this. Dean at least cops to being down -- Sam denies being depressed at all; it’s just that their lives are terrible.

(He’s not entirely wrong, is the problem, and Dean the pessimist is going to have a real hard time arguing that one. I’m starting to think what they’re both struggling with now is that everything isn’t going to hell, and neither of them actually have functional coping mechanisms in that situation. They pull out of their worst spots to save the world and/or each other; but now they’re both relatively safe and so is the planet, and...it’s like a crush injury; when the pressure is lifted, that’s when you can bleed out.)

[denimwrites-archive]

Knights and Legends

Prompt: Requested by Anonymous - “I love your writing! Can you please do a fic where dean meets another male hunter and gets star struck and flustered around him and eventual fluff and love happens? Thanks!!”

Fandom: Supernatural

Pairing: Dean Winchester X Male Reader

Summary: You’re off in the midwest doing your thing, when you run into a very recognizable set of brothers. The elder catches your eye, and the feeling seems to be mutual. But let’s see what happens, shall we?

Word Count: 4,744

Warnings: Alcohol consumption, eating, violence, injury, blood mention, lots of language, descriptions of a dead body. 

A/N: I wasn’t entirely sure if you meant Dean to get starstruck by the reader or the other way around, so I kind of did both. I hope you enjoy! (Also this supernatural monster is made up by me because I didn’t feel like doing any research on new entities to use oops)

~~~

On the road to Arizona, your mind races with the possibilities of what this new supernatural foe could be. It seemed to revolve around full moons, but also new moons, and the carnage left behind wasn’t typical of any werewolf you’d come across before. There was also the herbs found at every crime scene. You were definitely checking for hex bags, but you doubted that they would still be there if the witch was smart, but then again that didn’t happen very often.

Nevertheless, you were ready to face whatever it was. Silver, iron, salt, and all of your other tools were in your trunk, prepared to be used at a moment's notice. When you crossed the state’s border you breathed a sigh of relief, the journey was almost over. You finally made it into town a little after the sun set. Pulling into a motel parking lot, you can’t help but notice the beautiful vehicle in the spot next to you: a 1967 Chevy Impala. It reminded you of the stories you’d heard of the infamous Winchesters, and their beautiful ‘baby’.

Checking in, you grab your gear and settle in, heading to bed early so you can get a jump start on the day in the morning. You could hear two voices through the wall, and although they seemed annoying at first, they ultimately lulled you into a peaceful sleep. Your alarm clock was waking you soon enough, though, and you grumbled while you got dressed in your typical ‘government’ attire.

Grabbing a crappy coffee from the complementary breakfast table in the motel’s lobby, you head down to the Sheriff’s department, ready to do some hard hitting ‘police’ work. The officers there seem helpful enough, and you get all the information you need before heading down to the morgue. As you ask the receptionist about the M.E. she says that your partner was already speaking to him. Recovering quickly, you give a nod, and follow where her finger points down the hallway.

Stepping into the office, the two gentlemen turn around and you’re stunned slightly when you see the man who was your supposed partner. He was gorgeous. He seems just as surprised to see you, green eyes piercing into yours. But he plays along, motioning you to join the conversation. You graciously do, introducing yourself before listening to what the frazzled M.E. had to say.

“Well, it’s like nothing I’ve ever seen before,” he shook his head, “All these bodies turning up on such a regular basis, people are starting to think it’s a serial killer, and that’s not good for tourism. The mayor’s office is breathing down my neck to find something that killed them other than the obvious wounds, but I just can’t give it to them. At least you two are here, and can probably put a stop to this insanity.”

“We’ll try our best sir, please leave it to us,” the man next to you says. You nod in affirmation, and the doctor leaves looking much more content than when you had entered. When he’s out of earshot he turns to you. “I’m assuming you’re on the level?”

“Yeah. What’re you thinking? Werewolf doesn’t seem like a good option, and the herbs point to witch, but no hex bags. It’s unlike anything I’ve seen before,” you say, with a shake of your head. Not only was the monster making your head spin, but you were in the presence of the Dean Winchester. Dean frigging Winchester! You felt like you were dreaming.

“We don’t know yet, my brother was thinking along those same lines, went down to the police station to see if they had anything in evidence that could shed some more light on it.”

“I didn’t see anything when I went down first thing. And most of the evidence is the body itself, so I headed down here right after, I must have just missed him on my way out.” Dean gave a nod, before sticking out a hand.

“Dean Winchester. Sam’s probably on his way over, so you’ll meet him soon enough.” Giving his hand a hearty shake, you can’t help the smile that comes to your face.

“I know,” you said immediately regretting it. Your cheeks burned as Dean cocked his head at you, smirk on his face. “Well you guys are famous, and I have to admit I’ve heard the legends. It’s really an honor to be working this case with you.”

“Well then I’m honored to be working with such a fan.”

Giving him a light shove you say, “Just because you’ve saved the world doesn’t mean you can get a big head. I just meant that I admire your work, keeping everyone alive and all.” Then it’s Dean’s turn to blush, he ducks his head as a tall man walks through the door, Sam Winchester.

He gives you a wary look before walking over to Dean. “Nothing at the station, you find anything here?” Dean gives him a shake of his head before motioning to you.

“No, I was just catching up with him,” pointing at you, “Uh… I never got your name?”

Extending your arm, “(Y/N) (Y/L/N). Hunter and cowboy extraordinaire. Not really that last part, but I try,” you say with a rueful grin. Sam smiles back, shaking your hand and introducing himself.

“Oh, he knows about our legendary tales.” Dean says with a smirk. Sam gives him a bitch-face as Dean continues, “That’s right, I’m a legend.”

“Technically, we’re both legends, but whatever. Let’s take a look at these bodies, shall we?” Sam asks, getting straight to business. Dean rolls his eyes but walks over to the roll out tray anyway, you right behind him. Grabbing some gloves, Sam reads the report as you and Dean poke around the body, inspecting anything that’s out of order, other than the gaping chasm in the vic’s chest that is.

Taking a closer look, you see that the lungs are indeed ripped apart, but they also seem to have a kind of coating on the inside. It’s greenish in hue, and obviously not native to the body. Grabbing a swab of it, you hold it up to the light and see that there’s some kind of dust mixed in with it, adding some reflective flecks to it.

Raising a brow at the brothers, they seemed as stumped as you. You grab a sample and pocket it, knowing that the M.E. wouldn’t be able to do anything with it if it was supernatural in origin. You all step outside, and contemplate your next move. “Well we were going to head out for lunch, want to join?” Sam asks, with a hopeful look. Agreeing, you hop into the backseat of the Impala.

You can’t help but marvel at as Dean starts the engine. “Oh god, she sounds beautiful.” Dean lights up at your compliment and eagerly starts talking about the engine and how he takes care of it. Sam rolls his eyes, obviously tuning out of the conversation, but you hang on every word. The way Dean so passionately talks about his car, you can’t help but feel butterflies.

He pulls into the diner parking lot just as he started to talk about the sound system he had messed with, getting some better speakers for rocking out to. The second the car was at a stop, Sam jumped out, ready to end the conversation. But you sat with Dean still talking about the car as it idled. After a few more minutes, Sam knocked on the window and Dean finally shut off the car, giving you a ‘can you believe this guy?’ look. Letting out a chuckle, you got out of the car and headed inside.

Grabbing a booth, you looked at the menu and placed your order before getting down to business. Sam had pulled out his laptop to do some more research, and you grabbed your journal from your bag, Dean doing the same. Flipping through your many pages, you didn’t find anything. The brothers also seemed to be drawing a blank, so you decided to eat before regrouping and trying a different approach at the motel.

As you ate, the conversation turned to lighter topics like television shows and music. Again, Dean lit up at the mention of a few of his favorite bands, eagerly talking about the concerts he saw and his favorite compilation tracks. When you were done with your meal, you couldn’t help but notice the pie sitting on the counter, and asked for a piece as the waitress was grabbing your plates.

“You’re my kind of man. Make that two slices please,” Dean said with a smile in your direction. The butterflies were back with full force and your cheeks heated up as Dean let out a groan at the first bite. “Oh, God, this is good.” He eagerly continues eating as you chuckle and take a tentative bite. You groan and he nods, “I know right?”

After finally finishing the delicious pie, you head back to the motel. You grab your laptop and head next door to Sam and Dean’s suite. Setting up, you all work in relative silence, sometimes voicing theories, but ultimately come up with nothing. Letting out a sigh a few hours later, you get up and stretch, unable to contain a groan as you release the ache from your muscles. “Break time?” Sam asks, and you nod heading for the bathroom.

Finishing your business, you return to the room, dreading going back to researching. But Dean holds up a hand when you move to sit down again. “I’m going for a food run, want to come with?” With a quick nod you head out the door. Taking a seat in the passenger’s seat you can’t help but admire the car even more. As Dean starts the engine he turns on the stereo, AC/DC playing through the speakers.

Grinning and rocking out as you drive down the road, on the way to a local Chinese restaurant. Pulling up, you head inside and order your take out. Getting out quickly, you ask if he wants to grab some more pie from the diner from earlier. “You read my mind,” he replies with a smile. You return the grin and grab the slices of pastry goodness while Dean waits in the car.

You decide to grab a few different flavors, which causes you to leave with more than two slices in the bag. This doesn’t go unnoticed by Dean, and you can see his face light up as you hold the bag up in victory before getting into the passenger seat once more. The ride back to the motel is orchestrated to the beat of Bad Company and Ozzy. You can’t help but gush about the bands as he helps you carry the food back into the room.

Sam looks on in amusement as you two banter about the better bands and debate over the different ways to listen. Dean is in favor of good old cassette tapes, but doesn’t argue with you over the convenience of electronic storage. As you eat, you slowly start to talk about more serious matters, like the retelling of hunts and how you got into the life. You couldn’t help but ask about some of the tales you’d heard from friends of friends, and if they were really true.

The brothers shared a look before launching into their own version of the events that transpired. One story led to another and soon enough it was well into the night and you and Dean were still talking in your room. Sam had decided to turn in about an hour ago, but neither of you were ready for the conversation to end. You had cracked open a few beers and just kept talking. It was so easy to get swept up in it, one thing leading right into the next topic, you hadn’t connected with someone this well in a long time.

You were in awe of Dean’s accomplishments, and didn’t stop yourself from complimenting him on his bravery and perseverance. “I know a lot of people who’ve given it up without a second thought, but here you are for, what is it? The millionth time? Still giving your all to save people. You really are one in a billion, Dean Winchester.” You see his cheeks flush as you finish, trying to hide it behind his beer.

Silence falls over the two of you, and you don’t know how long you sit there for, just enjoying each others company. But soon enough, Dean is getting up, saying it was time for bed. Agreeing, you tell each other goodnight before turning in for the night.

The next morning, you get dressed and grab some actually edible breakfast from down the street before tentatively knocking on the Winchesters door. You hear a gruff, “Come in,” and enter to find Dean still laying in bed. Sam is sitting at the table, laptop in front of him, holding a finger to his lips. Nodding, you carefully make your way over to the table, setting down the bag of donuts and coffee tray. At the smell of the liquid savior, Dean starts to stir. Blearily looking at you, he gives you a tired wave.

Mimicking it, you then gesture to the food. “I bring gifts,” you joke. Dean gives you a thumbs up before rolling off of the bed and heading to the bathroom. He shuts the door and you let out a small laugh. “He’s not much of a morning person, is he?”

Sam just gives a tight smile with a shake of his head, “You have no idea.” He grabs one of the coffees and sips at it as he continues to scroll on his computer. Soon enough Dean is out of the bathroom, looking a little more awake. You hand him a coffee and he accepts it with as much of a smile he could muster. He also grabs a donut from the bag before taking a seat.

You grab the last coffee, taking a seat next to Dean as Sam starts to talk about what he found that morning. Listening closely, you think Sam has finally found out what you were after. It was a special kind of demon that had to be summoned by a witch. It could only be conjured during the new and full moons, and it seemed to be used as a way of exacting revenge. It would explain the timing and the herbs found at the scene, but there were still a few holes.

The curious thing about it though, was that it didn’t mention how it exacted revenge. You assumed that it had more to do with the witch themself rather than the demon’s wishes. But it also didn’t say anything about the goop you had found, or the specks within the substance. It was a start though, and that was all that mattered. Finishing breakfast you find that the closest supply shop for Sabrina the teenage witch is about half an hour south. Sam offers to go and inspect it on his own, you and Dean not offering any arguments.

You head to the library to see if you can find out if this has happened in the past, as Dean makes some phone calls through the hunter network trying to find out if anyone else has ever encountered this thing before. You return to the motel an hour later empty handed. Hanging up the phone as you enter, Dean shakes his head at your hopeful look. Letting out a sigh, you sit and wait for news from Sam.

Dean’s phone rings only a few minutes later and you look at him expectantly as he answers with a quick, “Did you find anything?” But you immediately know something is up when his brow furrows, a dark look overtaking his features. “I swear if you did anything to him, you’re going to die the most painful death imaginable.” He listens in silence before letting out a growl as he pulls the phone away from his head. “Let’s go,” he says grabbing his jacket and stalking out the door without another look.

Following him out, you get into your car and follow the Impala on its way down the road. While driving, Dean gives you a call explaining the plan. You’d go into the shop and start asking questions, after you give a signal Dean would sneak in and tries to find Sam. If he wasn’t at the shop, you’d keep looking. He couldn’t be far, and there were bound to be at least some clues there.

Pulling into the parking lot across the street, you grab your signature gun, loading a clip of iron bullets coated in silver. Also sticking a dagger into your pocket, you prepare for the worst. Giving Dean a nod in solidarity, you put your plan into action. Crossing the street, you enter the shop with a cheerful demeanor. As you walk up to the counter you can’t help but notice the eerie silence of the store.

Quickly scanning the different aisles you see that no one else is there, and approaching the counter, you are again met with nobody. Furrowing your brow, and drawing your gun, you carefully make your way behind the counter and into the backroom. No one is there either, but you see the remnants of an altar. It seemed to have been destroyed, but as you bent down to inspect the remains, you feel a presence behind you.

Whirling around, you’re faced with a panicked woman. Eyeing her warily, she does the same to you, holding her hands in the air. “Who are you?” you ask accusingly. When she doesn’t answer you for a few moments, you start to think she’s frozen in shock and put away your gun, carefully moving closer to her. “Hey, it’s okay, I’m not here to hurt you. I just need some information about my friend.”

When you’re almost close enough to touch her, she lunges at you, hands aimed at your face. Grabbing her wrists you’re able to wrench her off of her feet, but she uses her momentum to land on top of you. Grappling with her, you use her position of straddling your stomach to your advantage. Hands still holding her wrists, you twist and shove your elbow into her temple, pulling her forward and allowing you to get on top of her.

She starts screaming when she realizes that you have the upper hand, and you knock her head into the ground until she falls unconscious, worrying about someone coming in to investigate. Peering out of the back room, you see Dean making his way across the street. Breathing a sigh of relief, you meet him at the door, locking it after he enters. “What the hell happened to the plan?” he asks, frustrated.

You explain what happened, and show him the unconscious woman. You end up tying her to a chair while you discuss your next move. She soon comes to, and you leave the room as Dean gets to work getting answers. The room is mainly silent while you wait outside. And it doesn’t take long. When you reenter, she doesn’t even have any scratches on her, but she does look very remorseful.

Dean motions you outside again, and he tells you what she said. “Supposedly the woman’s sister is the one who owns the shop, she had just come in to cover when her sister asked an hour ago. They’re both witches, but she didn’t know that her sister had taken it a little too far. She’s just a hippie wanting something to do, but her sister definitely went darkside. That broken  altar in there was hers, and I think Sam must have tried to stop her. They have a farm on the outside of town and I bet that’s where he is.”

“Should we bring the sister as leverage? I don’t think she’d really want to let her sister get away with murder.”

Dean considers the thought before reentering the room. Bending down to look into her eyes he asks, “We’re going to go after your sister and try to get my brother back. Would you be willing to help us?”

“Yes. If Margaret has been hurting people right under my nose, I have to do my part in stopping her now, before she does anything else.” With that you help untie her.

“Sorry about earlier,” you say, rubbing the back of your neck sheepishly. “But in my defence you kind of acted like you were going to gouge my eyes out.”

“It’s alright, you guys deal with a lot of dangerous things, I probably shouldn’t have acted so rashly anyways. But I kind of thought that you were the serial killer, which I now know to be my sister and some pet she conjured from hell.” Giving a humorless laugh, you give her shoulder a squeeze before heading out to your cars. Dean takes the lead once again, you following close behind. A new plan is devised on the way to the farm, and you feel prepared by the time you get there.

It’s similar to your last plan, you in front with the sister, acting as if a trade were up for negotiation. Dean would enter through the back and gank the bitch, while you helped Sam. It seemed easy hypothetically, and you hoped it would translate to real life. But of course that couldn’t happen.

The second you got out of the car and acted like you were going to lead the sister the barn doors were blown open, Margaret appearing in all of her angry glory. “Unhand my sister,” she cried, raising a threatening hand.

“Then hand over my brother,” Dean yelled. The wind started to pick up as Margaret walked closer.

“Sel, please, let the man go. I don’t know why you’re doing this,” her sister pleaded.

“I’m doing this for us, you idiot. You never had the guts to get ahead in the world, and I took it upon myself to get rid of our competition, allowing us rise to the top. It definitely helped that I got some real magic along the way. Your herbs are no match for my force.” And with that she snapped her fingers, the wind picking up even more. You could feel your feet begin to slide through the dirt driveway.

“All this just to save your business? Whatever happened to hard work?” Dean yelled, drawing her attention. When she was distracted you were able to grab your gun and take aim. The wind was still blowing harshly enough that you had to hunch into it. Knowing that you would have to pull of a really great trick, you took your chance and pulled the trigger.

Your heart stopped at the sound of the gunshot, everything happening in slow motion. You could see the bullet being pulled by the wind, but somehow it still hit it’s target. Lodging itself into shoulder, she immediately turned back to you, the wind slowing to a stop, like a piece of time frozen.

There was no way that a single witch had this much power. Sharing a glance at Dean you knew he was thinking the same thing. As Margaret pulled the bullet out of her shoulder without even a wince, you knew you were in for it. Pushing her sister back towards the car, you quickly turn back towards the entity. Power was radiating off of her, and you knew you had to do something before she blew up in all of your faces.

Daring another look at Dean, you give him a wink before taking aim again and rapidly firing, charging towards her and emptying your clip into her. She didn’t even flinch, but it gave you enough time to get to her. Grabbing your dagger, you drive it into her side. When she laughs at you, you know that you were screwed. She grasps your neck, squeezing and lifting you above her head, eyes fading into black pits.

Dean saw you recklessly try to stop her, and the second he saw the black eyes, he started yelling an exorcism. As your vision started to fade, she started screaming. Next thing you know, you’re being shaken awake. Heaving in large gulps of air, the first thing you see is Dean’s green eyes peering down at you in concern.

“Are you back with the living?” You answer with a groan and Dean lets out a sigh of relief. “Thank God. You’re a complete moron, you know that?” he asks, leaning back with a shake of his head. You take in your surroundings and see that you were back at the motel.

“How long was I out?” you ask, voice rough from dehydration.

“About a day. After almost choking the life out of you, she dropped you on your head. Sam said you just had a concussion, and that rest would be best.” At the mention of the younger Winchester you start to look around the room, but notice that you’re alone with Dean. Noticing your wandering eyes, “He’s in our room, resting. He’s fine, thanks to you. If you hadn’t charged in there when you did, Sam could have bled out. But he’s been conscious the whole time, so I was able to get him bandaged up. The sister helped a lot. But Margaret didn’t make it.” Dean sucked in a harsh breath. You reached for one of his hands that was resting on the bed.

“You can’t save everybody, Dean. Not in this line of work. If anything, we don’t even know if Margaret was still alive in there. God knows how long that demon’s been in her.” Dean gives your hand a squeeze, giving you a thankful smile. You continue to look into each other’s eyes and then you suddenly feel his lips on yours.

Giving yourself into the kiss, you feel the room start to spin. From the butterflies in your stomach or your concussion, you don’t really know. But when you finally pull back to catch your breath, you’re certain that your cheeks aren’t the only ones that are flushed. Dean clears his throat, before making an effort to stand. “I should probably let you rest,” but you just tug on his hand, intertwining your fingers.

“Stay,” you say with a pleading look. Dean doesn’t have to be told twice and the next thing you know, he’s lying next to you, arm wrapped around your waist.

As sleep starts to pull you away again, you hear Dean talking quietly. “The Winchesters may be legends but you’re the one who saved those legends today. If that isn’t an accomplishment, then I don’t know what is. There’ll definitely be stories about you in no time. Especially if you decide to stick with us. Which I really hope you do.”

Opening your eyes slightly, you lean up and give him another kiss to shut him up. “Legends or no legends, we both need sleep. So, ssshhhhhh,” you hush him, eyes drifting shut again. He lets out a small chuckle, and you just hush him again as your mind starts to feel fuzzy again.

“Goodnight, hero,” he mumbles, kissing the top of your head, and pulling you closer. You both sleep comfortably and wake up more refreshed than normal. Getting up, you and Dean checked on Sam and started packing up for the next hunt.

And that was how you started hunting with the Winchesters. You and Dean liked to joke that you played the hero to impress him, but he knew that you were just a born a knight in shining armor, and never missed an opportunity to praise your bravery. In return you never failed to remind him how strong he was after all he’d been through, and always offered a shoulder when he needed it. You were everything the other needed, and to think that it was thanks to a crazy demon.

Even a few years after that first hunt happened, you still didn’t really understand what the demon was trying to do, or if that monster you originally thought it was even had a hand in it. But nothing strange had happened in the town after that, so you left well enough alone, just content to be where you were with your loving boyfriend.

[idontneedasymbol]

Emotions, Winchester style

This article about Dean’s angst in the recent ep had some interesting points -- I enjoyed the acknowledgment that SPN runs on pathos (they better keep that in mind as the season progresses) and Jensen is gifted at bringing the angst, both subtly and overtly.

There was one eyebrow-raising bit, though:

Sam and Dean Winchester are undoubtedly two of the most tortured heroes on TV, but while Sam (Jared Padalecki) proudly wears his emotions on his sleeve, older brother Dean (Jensen Ackles) is the embodiment of that ‘80s action hero archetype, oozing masculinity with his muscle car and shoot-first mentality, and stoically repressing his emotions until they inevitably explode in bursts of violence or self-destructiveness.

Which, okay, that’s how Dean works, except for all the times he doesn’t. But Sam? Wears his emotions on his sleeve? What sleeve? The one on a purple-dog t-shirt he’s buried under 10 feet of concrete and then sunk to the bottom of the sea?

Sam willingly shows very specific emotions, the ones he isn’t ashamed by. But anger, pain, hatred, hopelessness, he shoves down as deep as they go, until the pressure builds too high and bursts into things like “Sacrifice,” or all of season 4.

Both Sam and Dean try to suppress and hide what they think makes them look weak or vulnerable; they just have different ideas of what does that. So Dean often doesn’t bother to conceal his self-worth issues, making them part of his bravado, that he doesn’t care about his own life; while Sam is reluctant to let anyone notice how deep his self-doubt runs, for fear it will be confirmed. Then, Sam is generally unembarrassed  to admit he cares about someone, because that’s something positive, love being proof of his humanity; while Dean can be ashamed to admit that he’s craving affection, for fear he won’t get what he doesn’t deserve.

I think people might’ve been confused by all the times that Sam wanted Dean to talk – missing that Sam always wants Dean to talk about what’s going on with Dean. Sam is very interested in and unashamed about other people’s feelings. Not least of which because it means he can avoid discussing his own in any depth. Pretty much the only time he volunteers information on his own emotional state is when he’s trying to encourage Dean to share, or to show that he’s handling whatever he’s feeling – Sam is more likely to talk after he’s processed something internally. Or if he’s completely broken down, but that’s a rare thing. While as Dean is more likely to process by allowing himself to express what he’s feeling.

I also wonder if things were confused by the beginning of the show, which was more from Sam’s POV, so we got a lot about his internal mourning for Jess – seeing his nightmares and such – without him actually expressing most of that overtly; while our window into Dean’s inner workings was more limited. Over time the perspective has shifted back and forth, with Dean’s POV coming to dominate more in the later seasons (sometimes to the show’s  and characters’ detriment).

[idontneedasymbol]

Sam & Dean, leadership, control, obedience, and choice

Spinning this off into a new post because this got so long -- I love this topic, so I have many Thoughts! (Most of this is focused on the psychological side of it as explored through fictional tropes -- the mythological side of their chosen roles is also fascinating and deserving of its own post!)

@zmediaoutlet​ wrote:

I really do feel quite strongly about this, which makes those metas where people insist on calling Dean ‘controlling’ actually a bit infuriating to read. Sam makes decisions; Dean follows. It’s not that way 100% of the time, but it is true way more often than the reverse. It’s part of the deepest core of their natures–which is explained by the archangels they were meant for. Dean is loyal, and Sam rebels. I watched ‘The Vessel’ a few nights ago and was struck so hard by how Dean announces that he shall be the one who goes back to the past. He will be the one who puts himself in danger, because he’s expendable. He states it as a fact, almost bullish… and then still waits for Sam’s permission before he and ‘Castiel’ actually go. It’s just such a fascinating dynamic, made more so by the change-up of roles.

Again yes to all of this. Dean as "controlling" I take as a misinterpretation (--alternative interpretation, though this is a case that I feel strongly enough about the characterizations that I struggle to see the alternatives) of their communication styles -- and Dean's style in particular is molded, not just by John's militaristic upbringing, but by his relationship with Sam.

Dean can be controlling -- especially with innocents in supernatural-emergency situations, it's vital to give orders forcefully enough that you can expect them to be followed. But with Sam, that's rarely what it's about. Dean gives statements of intent to Sam knowing they're not going to be blindly followed -- since he was a little kid, Sam hasn't obeyed him without question. Moreover, Sam has always known that Dean won't actually act without his say-so. (e.g. "After School Special”, in which at 14 Sam is fully capable of letting Dean know what he wants -- Dean is raging "I'll rip his lungs out" about the bully, but he doesn't actually do anything, lets Sam handle it on his own. And it's not played as a "big brother finally lets his little brother out on his own" moment -- Sam is talking to Dean with confidence that he can handle it himself and that Dean won't intervene. He knows Dean has his back if needed, but he doesn't expect Dean to do anything without his agreement.)

Some of the reason this can be misinterpreted is because of their differences in communication and thinking styles. Sam is the kind of person who likes to go into a discussion or argument informed, fully armed -- he doesn't like to talk about anything until he's had time to think it out, to come to a conclusion and come up with counter-arguments, etc. While as Dean is less of a thinker, more of a doer; he wants to talk about what he's thinking/feeling because verbalizing it out loud is how he understands it himself. (Or by acting it, hence him being way more prone to expressing himself through physical violence than Sam.)

The reason this works is because they both understand this about each other.

A lot of their conversations start with Dean making a statement of opinion phrased as an absolute, and then Sam presents his side, softening that absolute. One of my favorite examples is at the end of 11x08:

SAM Dean, we need to seriously discuss me going to the Cage.

DEAN Okay. Not happening. Good talk. ...Sam, even if these visions are real...

Which on its surface can look like Dean is ending the conversation, shutting Sam down. Except that's not what's happening -- that's clearly not how Dean means it, because he immediately continues the discussion. He's not issuing an order to Sam that he expects to be followed -- he's stating his position, clearly telling Sam where his own opinion stands, giving Sam a starting point for his own argument. Which Dean is counting on getting from Sam, because Sam nearly always does.

This isn't perfect communication; it can lead to misunderstandings, and especially when they were younger, Sam could take it as Dean not respecting or listening to him. But they’ve worked like this for a while, mostly effectively. Dean can speak his mind so bluntly, figure out what he’s feeling, with the confidence that Sam will stand up to it. And in the end, Dean usually comes around, unless he can convince Sam otherwise, such as by coming up with an alternative plan.

The one area that this does completely break down is in regards to Sam himself -- the one time Dean will unilaterally go against Sam's "command" is when Sam's own life is at stake, in which case Dean's loyalty to saving Sam comes above obeying him.

And even then, it causes massive cognitive dissonance for Dean. One of the worst tailspins Dean has is in s7, after going against Sam's decision and killing Amy. Dean believes it's the right thing to do, and the right thing to do for Sam; but disobeying Sam and then lying to him about it makes Dean so guilty he can barely function. While as Sam can lie to Dean about the Book of the Damned for weeks without any obvious signs -- Sam feels guilt incredibly strongly, but not about disobedience, not when he thinks he's doing the right thing. Rebellion in itself isn't a sin for Sam -- as you say, it's one of his defining characteristics.

Then @chiisana-sukima​ had a related but different angle:

I would say that mythically, Sam is a King and Dean is his Minister of War. And I also agree that doesnt invalidate what Jared is saying because I think Sam rightfully doesn’t trust what he’s King of. And that a big part of Sam and Dean’s relationship is that Sam trusts Dean- and uses Dean- to be a check on Sam’s power, and a lot of their conflict is about that issue. Sam only wants and needs a check when he’s wrong, and he’s not always wrong. Sometimes he’s right and Dean is wrong (for example: MoC), so Sam can’t just lie down and do whatever Dean says, but he also can’t trust himself. It’s a hard position to negotiate.

I think this is all true -- and yeah, Sam gets very frustrated when he believes he's right and Dean still isn't coming around. Especially because Dean generally digs his heels in hardest when it has to do with Sam’s life/sanity rather than a moral question, which Sam does not believe is a valid argument (s9 got into this some, but as that argument happens perpendicular to the mostly-unspoken one about Dean violating Sam's bodily autonomy to save his life, it doesn't fully get resolved? And then the Mark temporarily upends their dynamic -- Dean starts giving orders actually expecting to be obeyed, and Sam flips from mission statement: saving the world to saving Dean.)

Dean sort of does double-duty as "Minister of War" and also Sam's bodyguard? Along with comparing it to Maiden Rose (which I would love to hear more about! maybe to discuss in person, as @owehimeverything​ has actually read it but prefers talking to writing meta) -- we've compared it ourselves to the even-less-known manga G-defend, in which the central (m/m) ship is between a commander of a sort of SF SWAT-team garrison and his bodyguard. The bodyguard is out of the main chain-of-command; he reports directly to the commander and obeys him in everything except matters pertaining to the commander's own safety, in which as bodyguard he has the authority to decide whether a given action is too dangerous for the commander to take. It's the source of some conflict (not a lot, because G-defend is one of the fluffiest BL series to exist, but...)

Sam and Dean's relationship doesn't map perfectly to these examples (in part because all the writers have a somewhat different take on their dynamic, so it can be inconsistent between eps; and I also think it's because this kind of power positioning is really common in Japanese fiction but less so in American fiction -- like, it's fundamental enough that we respond to it really strongly, e.g. Kirk & Spock; but especially without a clear command structure like the military to justify it, that kind of relationship can feel weird to Americans -- like there's something wrong about Dean being 'subordinate' to Sam when they don't have actual ranks, that it's an imbalance that must be corrected, rather than a mutually satisfying and stable arrangement.) But I have some hopes that if the story starts exploring “Sam as leader” more intentionally, it might drift more in this direction (even if by accident!)

My own view is that I do think people who say Sam is submissive to Dean are right. He lets Dean control a huge proportion of the relationship imo (for example: Dean has Baby/Sam has no car. For another example: Dean uses physical violence on Sam way more often than Sam does on Dean, and generally Sam just pretty much takes it). But power is complicated, and my view is that the operative word is let, and that they are both aware that Sam is delegating something that is his onto Dean.

On the one hand, I don't totally disagree? But on the other, neither of these specific examples seem to me like Sam ceding control. Sam doesn't own a car, but he has full access to transportation. If Dean isn't chauffeuring him, then Sam usually can take the Impala -- but if he can't, he simply steals another vehicle (or possibly they have extra vehicles in the bunker?) We've seen Sam driving multiple cars whenever he wants to go somewhere but Dean is out/Sam doesn't want Dean to know.  I take Sam's not having a car of his own as him not having much interest in personal possessions (e.g. not personalizing his room in the bunker)(and maybe mixed with a little of feeling "unfaithful" to Baby, given that the only time he ever got a car of his own he was soulless? Sam's relationship with Baby as compared to Dean's is fascinating in its own right...)

And Dean's physical violence is problematic for sure, but I have a hard time seeing it as controlling when it never seems to influence Sam? I can think of three times Dean has punched Sam when both were in their right mind (other than sucker punches or getting into a full fight) (in 2x03, 4x04, and (uggggh) 7x03...season starts are rough times?) and Sam doesn't actually agree to what Dean wants any of those times, or seem more than mildly annoyed by it. (I could go on a long tangent here too, the short version is that I think these moments are the show getting confused about what level of violence it operates at. Sam & Dean are rough-and-tumble sorts such that if we actually saw them hitting each other more -- in anger or in sparring -- it would come across as less significant?)

All that being said, Sam does let Dean take the wheel on smaller things (like choosing music) in part because he doesn't have strong opinions on a lot of it (really, given the scope of the issues Sam often is grappling with, he likely has such constant decision fatigue that he vastly prefers Dean to make the basic choices like where to go for dinner.) And I think a key thing here is the "let" -- Sam could get his way (often with just a word; Dean rarely refuses anything Sam asks for outright) but doesn't feel the need to. So I guess I see it as Sam sometimes agrees to submit to Dean, but I hesitate to call him “submissive”? (Or maybe that’s just a matter of definition?)

Meanwhile, when Sam starts working for the BMOL, he's directing their hunts for two weeks and Dean doesn't see anything amiss in it -- Dean is swinging the machete, but Sam is picking the target; Dean is driving, but Sam is the one telling them where to go. And that's how they both like it, and while it's not perfect (especially if their communication breaks down otherwise -- their biggest issues happen when one of them is keeping a secret and so the other is working with incomplete information), it's largely functional, a mutually satisfying and effective personal and professional partnership.

(And yes, this is one interpretation and there is plenty of room for others! But it's one I see strongly enough that I find it kind of baffling when I come across meta holding that Sam not choosing the music shows that Dean is controlling, or that Dean agreeing to work with the BMOL is Sam overriding Dean's will, when I see both as mutually willing choices, not signs of dysfunctionality.)

[idontneedasymbol]

Sam and Dean and their complement of issues (and complementary issues)

So what started as a random reply turned into our (as always this came out of conversation with @owehimeverything) Grand Unifying Theory of the Winchester brothers relationship...

chiisana-sukima wrote:

...in terms of who they are as people over the long haul, Sam is pretty unwavering in believing that Dean has a good reason for the mistakes he makes and is a good person who is doing the best he can and will come through on the right side in the end. Whereas Dean, I think, wants to believe that same thing of Sam, but doesn’t always (he does always believe he’ll love Sam no matter what though). And so in the places where Sam is weakest, sometimes Dean instead of shoring him up, breaks him down further.

I think is largely true, and along with the cosmic destiny and echoing Michael and Lucifer, a lot of it is the basic psychology of how they were raised. Sam grew up with Dean as a second parent, and the one who provided him unconditional love, who supported him through their rough life; naturally Sam internalized that as Dean being good, generous, to dedicate himself to that duty. While as Dean, acting as Sam's father and mother as much as brother, loved him unconditionally but was always having to watch out for Sam making mistakes, correcting him when he went wrong, as you do with children. (They talk about this in season 5, Dean trying to get over that long-practiced instinct of thinking of Sam as a kid who Dean has to keep "on the straight and narrow.")

It's fascinating how these viewpoints totally flip their usual philosophies. Sam is generally the one more inclined to see in shades of gray, to look for both the good and bad in anything -- but he thinks of Dean as an absolute, a Good man (and when Dean completely falters in this, Sam doesn't know what to do. In season 4, when Dean confesses what he did in Hell, that's when Sam goes back to Ruby and the demon blood.) While as Dean is more a black-and-white thinker, his morality based on instinct more than reason, this feels right and this feels wrong -- but Sam he loves whether he's right or wrong. Sam may look like a monster to the rest of the world, but he is always Dean's brother; and no matter how dark Sam gets, Dean always believes he can come back from it. Taking out the monster before it can kill innocents is Dean's go-to solution with everything but Sam -- never with Sam.

Both these views can get distorted and painful and fuck up their relationship on either side. As you say, Dean sometimes inadvertently tears Sam down at his weakest points; and Sam can do the same thing to Dean (but in different ways, at different points).

Sometimes Sam doubts Dean's love for him -- believes that Dean is loyal out of duty, because he is a good person who took responsibility for Sam and won't forsake that (even if he really would want to). So he sends Dean to Lisa and Ben, assuming that with someone, anyone, to care for and protect, Dean will ultimately be happy. Not realizing that Dean loves him specifically, out of more than altruistic compassion, and losing Sam is far worse a pain than just failing in his duty. I don't think Sam ever imagined that his going to Stanford would break Dean's heart; when Dean says that he didn't call Sam for two years, Sam hears it as Dean was fine without him, until he needed his help -- when really Dean staying away was a painful sacrifice, Dean trying to give the space he thought Sam wanted (and trying to protect his own heart).

And on the other side, Dean fears what Sam might be capable of, and that if Sam does do the wrong thing, that Dean won't be able to stop it (as is his duty -- as he's always understood it, as his dad always told him, as Sam himself has made Dean promise), because he does love Sam so much. And so he will become too judgmental, pointing out Sam's past and present mistakes. Not because he hates Sam for them but because he can't hate Sam for them, so hopes the reminder will at least be enough to make Sam question himself. Often worded bluntly or even cruelly, to try to get through -- not realizing how much Sam already questions himself, or that to Sam, Dean is almost the ultimate moral authority, and so his seeming judgment cuts deeper than anyone else's.

This also causes a tragedy of Golden Rule intentions, in that Sam sometimes will try to give Dean what Sam himself most wants/needs (assurances that he's a good person) while Dean will give Sam what Dean himself most wants/needs (assurances that he is loved no matter what) when sometimes their brother needs the other thing more. Sam needs to be told more than he's a good person, because it's maybe his greatest fear, that he's fundamentally evil and has no right to exist, whether or not he's loved. While as Dean doesn't put as much stock in whether Sam or anyone else believes he's good or evil (he has his own opinion on that, which goes up and down, but ultimately he does what he thinks is right and/or what he feels he has to do, whatever anyone thinks) but he needs to be loved and to love, because he's never sure of his right to either.

The first half of Season 8 is maybe my favorite (in a painful way) exploration of this, because both of them get their fundamentals so shaken. Dean is supposed to be Sam's "good man", who does the right thing -- who was indiscriminately killing his way through Purgatory for a year and now is friends with a vampire -- while Dean thought his and Sam's love could see them through anything -- but Sam apparently didn't care he was gone and did just fine without him.

And as dark as the Carver era got, a lot of it was a climb up from this, a working through of these issues. Between Gadreel and the MoC, Sam had to face Dean's darker sides, that Dean could do terrible things, with or without reason -- he still believes Dean is ultimately good, but he also knows Dean can do wrong, and will act to stop it. And Dean is less likely to pass judgment, and more likely to put faith in Sam's choices -- to not just love him but trust him as well (the MoC worked this from both sides; when sunk into its influence Dean was more judgmental than ever, but when he was keeping his head above the surface he was more likely to defer to Sam's judgment, accepting that his own was compromised. And that's continued through s11-12, that Dean makes his opinion known but follows Sam's lead with complex calls like going to Lucifer or working with the BMOL, or affirming his leadership in 12x22.)

Meanwhile Dean is more sure of Sam's love, after the MoC and all Sam did -- he didn't want Sam to do it, to risk the world like that and put that much more on Dean's conscience; but that Sam did anyway (that he would again, in a second) has settled Dean in a deep way, maybe finally convinced him that Sam does love him that much, such that Dean can openly acknowledge how his death will mess up Sam, that he can say with confidence "but we always came back." And Sam likewise is more sure of where they stand, telling Dean how he feels, criticizing and expecting Dean to respond to it without taking it as a rejection of their bond.

Of course they’ve still got some distance to go yet, and personal issues within themselves to work out. And they might still fall back into old patterns. But they’ve gotten further than ever before (and for all my criticisms of season 12, I am so satisfied that it didn’t set them back in this. Here’s hoping that season 13 will continue progressing forward!)

[idontneedasymbol]

I'm not going to be responding directly to this discussion -- didn't put this as a reblog on that post, because I don't want to stop that conversation from continuing; but because I am struggling with some things and also am extremely long-winded, I wanted to explain why I'm tapping out.

@chiisana-sukima wrote:

So the end result, to my mind, is that the pattern, if it’s a pattern that one has reason to be bothered by, is work to ignore, and then having a competing interpretation is like swimming upstream. Yeah, there’s still water up there where you wish you were, but it’s an effort to get there, and you have to constantly push against drifting back. And the fact that it’s (imo) unintentional on the parts of TPTB, in a way just makes it even creepier, since social denial of domestic violence is also a huge part of how irl domestic violence works, so that just makes it even more like real life.

I find it creepy as well. Especially because, as per your last point, once you see a fictional relationship as abusive, any argument against that interpretation is de facto erasure or even apology for abuse. Which obviously happens all too often in reality.

(To be clear, I don't mean you’re accusing me of any such thing! This is on me, and my own discomfort with the potential moral stance I could be taking, however unintentionally or unwillingly.)

However, I also think there is a selection bias here. I am not "swimming upstream" -- there are a handful of incidents in 12 seasons that I find objectionable (and OOC), but far more often I see the patterns I laid out in my original post of a somewhat unconventional but functional relationship that is fundamentally in Sam’s control -- not because I'm fighting to overlay them, but because they fit best to what I'm watching; I see them confirmed time and again.

Then there are Dean fans who also view the relationship as abusive, but see it as Sam (mostly emotionally) abusing Dean, pulling examples from canon to support that view. I haven't read much on those interpretations, as they're not ones I ascribe to myself. But unless you want to dismiss all those interpretations as character bias, it makes me believe some of this perspective doesn't just depend on evidence, but what evidence in particular you remember and focus on.

E.g.:

It’s not just that Dean punches Sam more than Sam… has Sam ever punched Dean besides 4x21?

In 10x23, Sam punches Dean first. And obviously in 5x22 Lucifer in Sam's body beats Dean nearly to death, and has done more while possessed/influenced.

(Then there's Dean & Cas, which is a more explicitly physically violent relationship than Sam & Dean; they've both nearly beaten the other to death while under supernatural influence more than once, plus Cas beats Dean unconscious in 5x18, which I think is the most violent interaction we see between any protagonists when both are in their right minds?)

I could keep going...except I don't want to, and that's where I get burned out with these discussions. Because a simple "defense" against a negative interpretation (especially one that is morally dubious to question at all) is to pose to another negative interpretation, to shift the argument to criticizing another incident or character or relationship. Which ultimately ends up focusing on all the negatives of all the characters throughout the show, and ignoring the positives, or finding the worst interpretation for them.

And I can do this some; I don’t think you would call me an uncritical viewer. But as I said, I don’t like anti-heroes; I like complex characters, but I like them for their good traits as well as their flaws. If I put most of my fan-energy toward focusing on the wrong they do, I end up either hating the characters, for doing such things; or hating the show itself, for the things it does badly, forgetting and ignoring all the things I like.

All three of the heroes have done terrible things to each other, and had terrible things done to them by one another. I do suspect that if you tallied up all the different cases, that Dean has probably done more harmful and more egregious things to Sam than Sam has done to Dean.

I personally think this is due to the nature of the characters -- that Dean hurting Sam is more dramatic than Sam hurting Dean, because Dean's character is more defined by how he relates to Sam than vice-versa (Perhaps ironically, this is a major reason why Dean is my favorite character.)

Plus it's more in line with Dean's internal-conflict-driven stories. While correspondingly Sam has taken more actions that endanger the world/universe, because that is more dramatic for his epic-hero storylines. More of Sam’s worst deeds are the stuff of pure fiction, epic stories with epic sins that can't reasonably be placed on the shoulders of a real human being; when viewed through a closer psychological lens, he's a brave man suffering under the weight of a supernatural Destiny. While as Dean from the epic-story viewpoint is more straightforward heroic; but from the psychological, real-person perspective is a damaged man who has done more personally, more realistically harmful things.

(And then Cas makes them both look good on both fronts. Sorry, Cas, but that's part of your role in this narrative...)

But it also means Dean's character can more easily be read as an abuser (however unintentionally -- or perhaps intentionally, depending on the writer?); from the psychological perspective, he is the more flawed character. And I don't have a good defense for that, or at least am ethically uncomfortable with offering one. Not least of which because for people who do relate to Sam, and see him as taking abuse and take courage from how he deals with it, this is valuable; this is something I would never want to take away or deny.

At the same time, I find value in seeing their relationship as functional, as a balance between extremes in a way I find satisfying on a number of levels.  But I haven't figured out how to say "I don't see it that way" that doesn't risk dismissing or erasing those other interpretations. So I think I'm probably better off saying nothing.