#that discourse shit

[respectissexy]

Having experienced a lot of it in my 20s, I think some of the worst, pettiest, most straight up this-is-just-bullying-you're-passing-off-as-praxis incidences of Queer Infighting endemic to young people can be best understood as attempts to exercise power by people with very little power.

Like you're 22, you're queer, you've just become a Marxist, the scope of World Suck is overwhelming and you have $30 in your bank account. What can you do to feel like you have any power? Well, you can try to get your frenemy cancelled for cosplaying a character from a problematic show. You can write a public callout post over someone's obviously friendly use of a slur you don't think they technically have the right to reclaim. Doing this stuff can make you feel like you have power and your actions have an impact. Unfortunately the impact in question is a negative impact on other marginalized people. But that often takes some maturity and self-reflection to notice.

[darling-shrike]

So help me god if I ever seen anyone so much a breathe something about Gaiman’s supposed autism or good omen’s cancellation again I am turning off your internet. This shit i why the first victims who came out only felt like they could go on a fucking radfem TERF podcast of all places. You disgusting ghouls need to keep your whining to the group chats and shut the fuck up. Fandom is progressive this fandom is activism that and it’s about david tenant getting railed more than it is helping real flesh and blood victims of SA fuck all of you

[zhelin-thames]

Danny Brings the Justice League to the Ghost Zone

Clockwork: “Why did you bring them here, Daniel?”

Danny: “I didn’t bring them. They followed me through a portal like lost ducks.”

John Constantine: “In my defense, I thought you were being possessed again.”

Danny: “I was LITERALLY holding a Dunkin’ bag and floating. That’s just me. That’s Tuesday.”

Batman: “This place violates every law of physics and at least four zoning bylaws.”

Fright Knight (materializing from the floor): “You violate my patience.”

Wonder Woman: “This realm... it’s alive.”

Danny: “Yeah, her name is Realmia. She likes boba and cosmic storms.”

Realmia (the actual Realms, vaguely embodied): blows a ghostly kiss and short-circuits three Bat-gadgets

Flash: “Can we talk about how the sky just blinked at me?”

Superman: “The sky has teeth.”

Danny (casually): “Yeah, don’t worry, they only bite time travelers.”

[The sky above them yawns open like a black hole with glittery teeth.]

Flash (Barry Allen): “...Wait.”

Danny: “Yeah?”

Flash:“I am a time traveler.”

Danny: “OH. That explains why the clouds keep growling at you.”

The Clouds: growl louder

Clockwork, sipping tea with visible amusement: “They’re merely curious. You're like a chew toy made of paradoxes.”

Flash (panicking): “I CAN FIX THIS. I CAN FIX—”

Danny: “No, Barry, this is not a ‘run really fast and mess up the timeline’ moment.”

Flash: “EVERY moment is that moment!”

Batman: “Allen, do not run. You will trigger a Realm storm.”

Flash: “What’s a Realm storm?”

The sky above them screams. Loudly. In Morse code.

Danny: “...Oh. That means ‘hi’ and ‘bite.’ It’s kinda both.”

Clockwork, sipping tea with a thousand-yard stare: “It’s been a long week.”

[that-satireguy]

'oh but if you remove the words trans and cis...!'

Its a different sentence.

Observe:

Trans men experience greater rates of sexual violence than cis women - True ✅

Men experience greater rates of sexual violence than women- False ❌

See how its NOT the same sentence if you remove the words trans and cis?

[titsoutfortntduo]

hating tommyinnit is so fucking dumb. this is literally who youre hating on. get a life

[yourfirstnamealoud]

I think some understand how transmisogyny functions and how trans women are cast as dangerous predators in an abstract way but it's shocking like. How people will not realize that they have for sure had direct contact with this thinking. Like when you pull up the Wikipedia page for any male serial killer for whom there's any evidence at all that they cross dressed or had like the slightest sprinkle of trans in them like. You will see that on their Wikipedia page! It will become part of how they are understood in popular culture! It's easy to see that and go 'oh well he wasn't trans actually' or 'oh well I guess that happened but it's irrelevant I personally don't care' but like, that information isn't included for no reason! The thing that makes that information notable enough to document on their gotdang wikipedia page is the transphobic, specifically transmisogynistic, assumption that the merest possibility of transfemininity is evidence of their depravation. And on top of that it also does the work of transfeminizing people who are Not Even Trans in order to promote and produce the idea that the transfeminine is monstrous.

[opashoo]

I'm absolutely losing my mind seeing "We need to not treat men and masculinity as inherently evil and worthy of hatred, and not fall back into biological and gender essentialism because that hurts everyone, including trans women" being misinterpreted as "Women need to stop oppressing men", "I think trans women are actually men" or "You specifically who have trauma around men need to get over it because men are the real victims". It's so willfully disingenuous. It makes me sick how willing people are to read in bad faith, especially how willing other trans women are to suddenly start harassing and dogpiling another trans woman.

I am a trans woman too, I understand what it's like to feel unsafe, but it helps no one this cynical attitude that crops up every time someone suggests being kind to men in our lives. "You could save a man you know from falling down the alt-right pipeline" is not the same as "It's your fault that men murder you". "There are people who could be on our side if we don't meet them with immediate hostility" is not the same as "You need to shut up and stop criticizing power structures for the sake of your oppressors' feelings" (I promise there are a lot of people who can be taught about their complicity in oppression without immediately shutting down but you need to work with them). This kind of attitude isn't somehow more informed or correct. It's just lashing out to avoid considering one's own agency.

Making a better, safer world for ourselves requires all kinds of work, but it's always work. It's hard to try to reach out to people who could very realistically harm us, it's work that not all of us can afford to or are able to do and that's fine because we're all just trying to survive. But some of you would rather condescend, tear each other down, and make more enemies before even considering it a possibility.

[itsmendak]

@silverleaf7265's meme template

[jjkyaoi]

DUDE IM GONNA

[lastoneout]

> them: our community is trans inclusive

> me: is it actually trans inclusive or is it just adhering to the gender binary but with trans people forced into the same ridged expectations and assumed positions of power or vulnerablility that cis people are?

> them: what do you mean

> me: *pulls out a chart explaining how gender essentialism is inherently harmful even if you count trans men and women as men and women because the very concepts of man and woman under this framework are so restrictive and reductive that they can not account for the diverse and complex intersectional experiences of trans men/women(or even marginalized cis people) and will also never be able to make a space safe for intersex, nonbinary, and multigender people*

> them: haha it's trans inclusive ma'am- I mean they

> I look inside

> it's ridged adherence to the gender binary

[angerydome]

“We need better public transit and more passenger railways” — fuck yeah I’m all about this~

“… and we need to actively discourage people from owning and driving cars and it should be illegal actually” — FUCK NO.

I don’t know why pro-public transit people have to be so obnoxious about this and ostracize people who would otherwise support their cause. I also find it amusing that they’re more than willing to be massive dicks to me for not hating on cars, until I mention I’m disabled and immune compromised and a lot of times not being able to go DIRECTLY from point A to point B (and limit my exposure to other people’s germs) will stop me from being able to do things and go places. At which point they usually stop engaging with me because I don’t fit the stereotype of disabled and unable to drive.

Overall, a lot of causes shoot themselves in both feet by saying that in order to do X thing (which most people would agree is positive) they need to take Y away from you (for no good reason).

[hearthmistress]

i'm sure this has been articulated before and probably better, but i can't stop thinking about the fact that the main reason buddie fans hate Tommy (outside from the fact he is blocking their ship from becoming "canon") is because Tommy is getting the Eddie storyline they want. Or rather, the fandom idea of Eddie is being played out with Tommy's character arc.

This really clicked with me after I watched a nearly 4hr 9-1-1 recap youtube video created by a buddie fan. I genuinely think (the buddie of it all and their view of Tommy aside) it's a great video and worth a watch! Really articulates what makes 9-1-1 fun and lovable, the issues the show has (especially with copaganda), the bad writing with certain characters and character plot arcs, and genuinely had a lot of points I agree with/have been saying myself since I started watching 9-1-1. Even the buddie of it all, I could get on board with because I like watching people argue why they ship something - I don't have to agree with it or like the ship to be interested.

My main issue with the video (and why I can't stop thinking about it) is how the creator viewed Tommy and how (perhaps purposefully) bad-faith they have interpreted his actions towards Buck. Again, I don't care if someone doesn't like Tommy or has no strong opinions of him, but I prefer people's dislike to be based on reality and/or what the character actually did, and not through the rose-coloured glasses of a shipper lens.

When the creator of the video brought up Tommy as Buck's love interest, they mostly said they were rather cool on him and that we don't know a lot about him yet to really know the character (and given that this was published before S8, that's fair). However, they bring up the cafe scene in S7E05 and Tommy's "mmmm, not like that" line as "evidence" that Tommy's indifferent to Buck and this is where buddies and general audiences separate into different realities, because this moment is a) clearly supposed to be funny/romcomsque and b) demonstrates Tommy's dry wit and, dare i say, sassiness - a trait applauded by buddie fans with Eddie (and they use as proof as his "queerness") but condemned when a canonically gay character does it. The video creator themselves mentions numerous times Eddie's sassiness as a positive trait (and to be fair, they also mention that it's sort of Eddie's default trait because he's a nothingburger character - which I agree with), but when Tommy does it, it suddenly demonstrates that a character doesn't really like/care for their love interests (which given what we know about S8.... hilarious in hindsight, holy projection batman).

Anyways, that really clicked into place for me that the (outsized) outrage buddies have towards Tommy is because he is canonically demonstrating traits they want to see in Eddie/how they view (fandom) Eddie.

Tommy as a character is:

-a deeply closeted gay man when we first meet him, who participates in toxic masculinity as a means to protect himself and/or because he can't (or is unable to) fully articulate himself as a queer person.

-alluded to have been raised in an environment where he had to hide his queerness (as discussed specifically in S7E10 with 118 being a "regressive place" when he was there). Is pressured by both his biological family and his work "family" to maintain a certain idea of manhood, and by extension, stay closeted. Also served in the army, an institute infamous for being homophobic, and undoubtedly influenced his ideas around duty and manhood.

-unable to maintain relationships with women, even serious long-term ones as with Abby, and uses these relationships (either subconsciously or not) to maintain the illusion of his heterosexuality.

-tied with "traditional" masculine interests/hobbies/institutes. He was in the army, he likes monster trucks, fighting, craft beer, flies a helicopter, etc. He seems, on the surface, a guy's guy.

-now canonically out and was/is in a relationship with Buck and has served, vitally, as a closet key to Buck, ensuring that two firefighters on the silly weewoo show are, in fact, together.

-very clearly invested in Buck's well-being, both within and outside of relationship. Has demonstrated numerous times "going out" of his way to put Buck's emotional needs first and to value Buck in way others (Eddie) do not.

-one half of a groundbreaking queer relationship. Cannot be repeated enough, the fact that the show has a main character (beloved by fandom and the general audience alike) come out as queer in a long-running mainstream show is groundbreaking. The fact that Tommy is one half of this ship is so important both to the show and Buck's entire arc. It is important and groundbreaking.

These are almost all things/traits that buddie fans argue make Eddie queer and/or why buddie would be a groundbreaking ship. Which sure, but the reality is the showrunners, the actors, the show itself have maintained Eddie is straight, and (as articulated by the creator themselves in the video) most of what they project onto Eddie comes from the fact he is poorly written rather than because the show was planning on making Eddie gay in the first place.

I read through numerous comments for the recap video and for a following video from the same creator about whether they had been queerbaited (I wish buddies learned the term "ship-tease" because if one half of your ship is canonically queer, no you cannot be queerbaited and dismissing Buck's canonical queerness just because your ship is not happening is, uh, a problem), and numerous times buddies have mentioned how "groundbreaking" buddie would be as if all the things they mention about the ship hasn't already happened with Bucktommy on the show. Their issue is not that the show refuses to do this (and the amount of comments I read that said things like 'they'll never make buddie happen because the network is too conservative'.... for a show with a black lesbian relationship from season 1 and has already made half of your ship queer and made him fuck nasty on screen with his male love interest.... the mental gymnastics is too much), but the fact that the show HAS already done this, just not with their blorbo of choice.

My closing thoughts (for now, I have MANY!) is that in the follow up video about being "queerbaited by 9-1-1", numerous comments asked "if Eddie isn't gay, that would mean he's just emotionally immature, terrible to women, and not a great friend or parent. He would be the worst character on the show".... and like yes, that's the real character you are choosing to stan, not the fanfic one! I fully understand that Eddie is blank canvas for most buddies to pin their hopes and dreams onto (again, because he is poorly written and is essentially a nothingburger character), but no matter how you twist each bucktommy interaction, make bad-faith interpretations, project things that never happened onto Tommy, in the end, Eddie is still a straight boring character. And Tommy is the one who is canonically living out the character-arc you so desperately want to see on the show.

[idliketobeatree]

btw when you're being mean to aziraphale this is who you're being mean to. hope this helps

[showsandstuff]

I am so conflicted about the drama in the arcane fandom regarding Meljayvik because it's all just so messy.

For one, not everyone likes every ship and that is okay. You don't have to like Meljayce or Jayvik, it's okay to only like one of the two or none at all.

But then there is the disposable black gf trope that makes this whole thing tricky. I hate this trope so damn much, it isn't fair. At all.

But then also Mel is SO MUCH more than Jayces lover in the story, like her romantic relationship with Jayce was a tiny part of her character and their relationship with each other as well. So I don't like the idea of reducing her to just that. Mel's arc this season was all about her other qualities, her intelligence, her power and her relationship to her mother, not about her love for Jayce or whatever.

I absolutely love Mel as a character. She went from someone who I thought would be a cunning villain, to this caring and intelligent leader, who will do whatever she thinks is best for her people.

Yet people always reduce her to "the girl that gets in the way of the Yaoi" or "Jayce’s love interest", like no come on?! She never got in the way of anything and she isn't just Jayce’s girlfriend. She doesn't lose her purpose if people don't like her together with Jayce, because that wasn't even what her arc was about! Free my girl!

[mewos-laptop]

"Guyysss... therians don't ACTUALLY think we're animals haha..." SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP

At this point I prefer the company of those who are straight up physically nonhuman and are PROUD AND OPEN ABOUT THAT FACT, instead of YOU fuckers who tip-toe around your identity to make OTHER PEOPLE more comfortable.

GET MAD. BE ANIMALISTIC. WEAR A COLLAR. BARK AT PEOPLE WHO PISS YOU OFF. WEAR GEAR. DON'T WEAR GEAR. FIND YOUR FELLOW CREATURES. LEARN ABOUT THE START OF OUR COMMUNITY.

BE UNAPOLOGETICALLY SCARY AND INTIMIDATING TO NORMIES.

[mossy-aro]

sorry but i am SO deeply tired of the 'aphobia isnt real' arguments because they are literally always being conducted in such bad faith. NO there is not specific societal or legal discrimation against aces and aros BECAUSE we are asexual and or aromantic. you cannot hold specifically bigoted beliefs towards a group you do not even know exist. there ARE, however, underlying and deeply pervasive systems and beliefs that actively erase, dehumanise and make life tangibly more difficult for aro and ace people on a social, economic and legal basis. most of this is due to hyperinvisibility, the medicalisation of any nonnormative + misunderstood orientations, the elevation of romance + romantic structures as the most important aspects of interpersonal relationships in society, as well as the nuclear atomisation of the family. among other things. like. amatonormativity has never been ABOUT aromantic people specfically oh my GOD. its simply the underlying social belief that everyone is expected to be in monogamous romantic relationships and that those relationships are expected to the default centre of one's life. its something that affects EVERYONE! but within that it affects aromantic people in a specific and heightened way because of our inability to participate in it in a societally acceptable way. like these are not 'aromantic' or 'asexual' or 'polyamorous' issues specifically. these are theories and terms that originated within feminist + queer sociology studies! its all part of the wider underlying social fabric! aspec people are simply pointing out that we are often affected by these things in unique and often unseen ways.

the idea that we believe people actively 'hate' us for being asexual or aromantic is completely ridiculous. most people i know do not even know the definition of those words! so how could they hate me for it. they could however, for example, hold the pervasive + societally unchallenged belief that not experiencing sexual or romantic attraction is a medical issue or something concerningly abnormal in a human being + something i should get fixed. and its not uncommon that when you DO explain that its simply your orientation to them, they continue to medicalise it and see it as some sort of issue. genuinely so deeply tired of having to explain this to people time and time again when they only want to cherry pick the most ridiculous arguments to respond to and then act as if that's a majority held opinion in the aspec community. like i actually think we are aware of how society views us we're not fucking deluded and stupid. we don't have victim complexes we are just pointing out facts that yall are so desperate to ignore. UGHHHHH