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blowflyfag · 24 days

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WWF RAW MAGAZINE: JUNE 2001

The RAW Interview

By Keith Elliot Greenberg

The Extreme Truth

Paul Heyman Pulls No Punches as he Reveals the Roots of “Hardcore”

(Part One)

Not long ago, World Wrestling Federation fans were astonished to turn on Raw Is War, and see none other than Paul Heyman sitting in the commentator’s chair. Since 1993, Heyman–also known as Paul E. Dangerously–had been the brains behind Extreme Championship Wrestling (ECW), an organization known for outrageous storylines and thrilling action. Through the years, some of the most gifted performers in the business–among them, Mick “Mankind” foley, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Chris Benoit, Tazz and the Dudleyz–got their seasoning in ECW, and many believe that the renegade group helped inspire the World Wrestling Federation’s edgy age of “Attitude.”

For much of the last year, Heyman struggled to keep his promotion alive, sometimes with the help of World Wrestling Federation-provided talent on his shows. But in early 2001, he realized he’d fought as hard as he could. When Jerry “The King” Lawler walked away from the World Wrestling Federation, Heyman found himself calling matches of the Federation, alongside Jim “J.R.” Ross.

RAW Magazine: Tell me about when you discovered that you’d be replacing Jerry Lawler on Raw Is War.

Paul Heyman: Actually, I thought it was a rib on me when they asked me to do it. I had no desire to be on camera. I get a much bigger thrill being behind the scenes. And I think the fact that I kept myself off camera so much in my own promotion is a testament to the fact that I truly don’t want to be an on-air personality. I was negotiating with the World Wrestling Federation when the company released Stacy Carter (The Kat), and her husband Jerry Lawler walked out on her behalf. When they told me they wanted me to sit in the commentator’s chair, I didn’t believe it. I haven’t been a commentator since October 1991, when I was in World Championship Wrestling (WCW). And I just couldn’t imagine why anyone would want to put a fat, bald, 35-year-old Jew on the air. It didn’t make sense to me… until 8:57 p.m., when they sent me out to the ring.

[“When the decision was made to take all wrestling stuff off Turner Broadcasting, I knew that, despite our efforts, the death knell was sounding for ECW. The fight was over. It was time to call it a day, and join the World Wrestling Federation.”]

RAW: In the weeks leading to your appearance on Raw, there were rumors about your last-ditch efforts to save ECW. How did you finally decide that it was time to come to the World Wrestling Federation?

Heyman: I’ve been a longtime acquaintance of the McMahon family. It’s kind of like in the movie Almost Famous. I B.S.’ed my way into the back of Madison Square Garden right after my 14th birthday. When ECW ran into bad times, there was so much support from the World Wrestling Federation, offers of advice, talent and promotion from the very top of the organization all the way down to just people volunteering production services on their off-hours. It was a no-brainer for me. WCW was never even a consideration because, quite honestly, they were structured to fail. Had WCW been taken off the Turner networks, we hoped we might be able to replace them. But when the decision was made to take all wrestling off Turner Broadcasting, I knew that, despite our efforts, the death knell was sounding on ECW. The fight was over. It was time to call it a day, and join the World Wrestling Federation.

RAW: Just as, in the 1950s, when Antonio Rocca popularized the flying head scissors and Gorgeous George opened the door to gimmick performers, many fans believe that in the 1990s, the ECW attitude influenced the World Wrestling Federation attitude. Do you concur with that?

Heyman: I would say that it was smart business on everybody’s part to be influenced by us, and study what we were doing right and incorporate it into their own product. We had something very, very special, and it was working. It was creating a situation where we had the most rabidly loyal fan base that many in this industry ever saw. We didn’t have the media exposure to market and promote our product the way the other guys did. So, to me, they were smart to beat us to the punch and bring it to a wider audience. If not, it would have enabled ECW a better wing at the ball in capturing any percentage of market share.

RAW: Back in 1994, there were people in the World Wrestling Federation who look at the ECW product, and said, “That stuff’s too hardcore. That may work in a bingo hall in Philadelphia, but on a national level no one’s gonna buy it.” I’m sure you heard those comments. So what compelled you to keep pushing the envelope without fear that it was going to explode in your face?

Heyman: We listened to the audience, and the audience was digging it. So we just kept on pushing it because they wanted us to.

RAW: How did you end up in the dressing room at 14 years old?

Heyman: When I was 13 years old, I’d go to Madison Square Garden with my zoom lens, take pictures of the matches, and then trade those photos with people all over the country. It was an expensive hobby because I had to reproduce so many pictures. So I started putting together a newsletter with everyone’s photos and match results. I was having a blast, the time of my life, and I wanted to get some interviews. I was tired of taking zoom-lens pictures with the ropes in the way. I wanted to go backstage and take photos of the wrestlers there. Now, I might have had pimples and braces, but I also had a deep voice. And I B.S.’ed my way on the telephone, and finally got a hold of Vince McMahon, Sr. [father of current owner Vince McMahon]. He arranged for me to get a press pass for Madison Square Garden. I just acted like I belonged, and I guess they believed that I did. I gave a picture of Andre the Giant that I had taken to Vince, Sr., and he gave me $50 for it. And every month after that, I showed up with my press pass and got in. I ended up getting to know everybody, and just became part of the scene.

RAW: Did you always believe in your heart that you’d be in the World Wrestling Federation at some point?

Heyman: I never really thought about it. I’ve never taken the time to sit down and wonder what comes next. I see TV executives do that all the time, and I hate their guts for it because they’ll make decisions that are based on future political ramifications instead of what’s right for their organizations. I just wanted to put 100 percent into whatever I did. So I never really thought that I would end up here. It’s been close several times through my career. But for one reason or another, I always ended up doing something else. I have a different perspective coming here at age 35 than I would have had if I came here when I was 24. I’m glad I had a chance to grow up outside the structure of the WWF because it enables me, at 35, to bring an old man’s experience but a young man’s enthusiasm to the table.

RAW: When did you make the transition from being a photographer to being a participant?

Heyman: I was editing one of the wrestling magazines in 1985 and 1986. And I also was doing work at [New York nightclub] Studio 54, doing publicity, promotions and producing shows–kind of like ECW. IN April 1986, Studio closed due to insurance problems. Suddenly I found myself out of work, so I began working on independent wrestling shows in the Northeast. In January 1987, I started working at the old wrestling territory in Florida. From there, I went to Memphis. And from there I went to the [now-defunct] American Wrestling Alliance (AWA). Everything just took off like a rocket for me.

RAW: It’s one thing to take pictures at ringside, it’s another thing to take bumps in the ring. How did you learn to make that change?

Heyman: I didn’t learn how to do it at all. I loved performing. It was a fantasy come true. And I just went out there and did it with no formal training, figuring things out along the way–like a real schmuck.

RAW: It’s no secret that, back in the days of the regional wrestling territories, some promoters didn’t treat the fans like they were intelligent. Did you learn from their mistakes?

Heyman: ECW was a very fan-friendly promotion. We believed in talking to and with our audience instead of at them and thinking that we were above them. I didn’t buy into the mentality some other promoters had.

RAW: In Memphis in 1987, you were involved in a very famous altercation with the man you replaced in the World Wrestling Federation, Jerry Lawler.

Heyman: It was the first time Lawler lost a hair match. I was Austin Idol’s manager and, in the middle of his match with Lawler, Tommy Rich–who had been hiding under the ring all day–came out and gave Lawler a piledriver after the referee got knocked on his ass. And Idol pinned Lawler. Then, they let me into the cage, and we proceeded to shave the head of the hometown hero, Jerry “the King” Lawler.

RAW: And the fans really seemed ready to riot?

Heyman: They did. It took us 45 minutes to get out of the cage. The cops couldn’t get to us, and we couldn't get out of the cage. People were literally climbing the cage to get in. And Tommy Rich was swinging a chair to bat them down. I was just 21 years old and stupid–I thought it was the greatest thing in the world. Meanwhile, I’m starting to realize, “Hey, why are the cops standing all the way back there? And why haven't they gotten to the ring yet?” And I realized it was because they couldn’t get to us. I was too excited to be scared.

RAW: And it was Tommy Rich who helped get you into the AWA?

Heyman: Yeah, he got a job there and mentioned that there was this young guy he knew who no one had seen on a national level. The AWA was on [TV] daily on ESPN at the time. The Gagnes [AWA owners Verne and Greg Gagne] were hesitant to use me because I'd been a photographer.

RAW: Why was that a problem? Did they think that you weren’t a professional manager?

Heyman: I really can’t identify the mindset, simply because I’m happy to state that in my life, I don’t think that I’ve ever been that stupid.

So I said to them, “Here’s what I'll do” I’ll buy a ticket to the TV tapings on my own. And if you like my shtick, give me back the plane ticket money and tell me that I have a job. If you don’t, I'll pack my bags and leave; the ticket’s on me and thank you for the opportunity.”

[“We brought in Sabu, then Tazz, and then Tommy Dreamer… (ECW) just gave the people a quality show, and it caught on. We could see the movement gaining momentum, and I decided to stick with it.”]

RAW: So you go out there, and you get heat?

Heyman: Yeah, kinda.

RAW: So did the Gagnes say, “Fine, you can stay”?

Heyman: Yeah, I walked to the dressing room, was handed my plane ticket money and told, “You got a job.”

RAW: Then you got national exposure?

Heyman: Yes.

RAW: And that led to you appearing in ECW?

Heyman: Right, I left Verne [Gagne] right before New Year’s Eve in ‘87, and spent the next 10 months working a little bit for Jerry Blackwell’s promotion in Georgia. Then I was Eddie Gilbert’s assistant booker in Alabama, while i was booking a new promotion out of Chicago called Windy City Wrestling. In WCW, Tully [Blanchard] and Arn [Anderson] had just left for the World Wrestling Federation, and the new Midnight Express [Bobby Eaton and Stan Lane] needed someone new to work with. So I came in with the Original Midnight Express [Dennis Condrey and Randy Rose, who’d previously used the name} for a Midnight vs. Midnight feud. And we started there the day that Ted Turner took over the company.

RAW: But what was significant about that was that fans weren’t sure if this was a storyline or the real thing. The announcers had said, “These guys [Condrey and Rose] don’t even work for WCW.”

Heyman: Very much. It was a lot like the things we did in ECW. Fans weren’t sure where the story ended and reality began.

RAW: Let’s hear about the roots of ECW.

Heyman: In 1993, my old friend Eddie Gilbert was living in Philadelphia, putting together Eastern Championship Wrestling with Tod Gordon. Eddie asked me to come down a few days a month and help him produce promos and teach some guys different interview skills and stuff like that. I always loved to work with talent. When Eddie and Tod had a falling out, Tod was left in a bad jam. And he asked me as a favor to help him. I came in and took over the creative end on September 18, 1993. And he asked me if I would do it a little longer while he got his legs underneath him. And I started producing characters like the Public Enemy. We brought in Sabu, then Taz, and then Tommy Dreamer. And we gave a young announcer named Joey Styles his first exposure and turned Shane Douglas into “The Franchise.” We just gave the people a quality show, and it caught on. We could just see the movement gaining momentum, and I decided to stick with it.

RAW: How did Eastern Championship Wrestling become Extreme Championship Wrestling?

Heyman: Even after the NWA (National Wrestling Alliance) ended its close association with WCW, the NWA continued to exist. It was mainly a group of small promoters around the country. And there were some members of the board of the NWA who kept trying to stop ECW’s progress. So the decision was made in 1994 to promote the next NWA world heavyweight championship tournament at the ECW Arena [in Philadelphia]. And the decision was made that Shane Douglas would get the belt. At that time, we made the decision that the NWA was truly a dead organization, and this was our chance to do something that we’d never done. We would declare the past dead and say, “This Is a whole new beginning. We’re gonna break all the conventions and trash all the rules. And look out world, here we come.” We took the risk of alienating ourselves from the rest of the wrestling industry, which we did.

Shane beat Too Cold Scorpio in the final. And then he threw down the NWA title in the ring. He didn’t throw it into a garbage can, as many people later claimed. And [NWA president] Dennis Coralluzzo came in the back and asked what was going on. We said Shane was the champion, whether he wanted him to be champion or not.

When out TV show aired, he was introduced as our new ECW champion. But we weren’t Eastern Championship Wrestling anymore, and we weren’t the NWA. We were Extreme Championship Wrestling. And the way the business would be propelled into the future would now be labeled “extreme.”

[Part Two of the Paul Heyman interview will appear in the July issue of RAW Magazine, on sale June 26.]

#paul heyman #magazine transcript #magazine scan

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wrestlinghistorywithkay · 11 days

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Joining The Family Business: Wrestlers Who Followed Their Families Into The Squared Circle Part 1

A lot of families have a business, including mine. It’s common for members of a family to take over and or follow their elders into a business after they retire. The is also a popular occurrence in pro wrestling. Over the years , there have been many families who’ve made a name for themselves within the business and have a new generation of wrestlers carrying the family name and creating their pwn legacies .

Hook ( Tyler Senerchia ) - 2nd Generation . Hook is the son of ECW and WWE Legend, Tazz. Both are currently signed to AEW , where Hook is a 3x FTW Champion and Tazz is a Color Commentator. The FTW Championship was created by Tazz in 1998 during his time in ECW.

Lexis King ( Brian Pillman Jr) 2nd Generation - Lexis is the son of WWE and WCW Legend, ‘ Flyin ’ Brian Pillman. King was signed to MLW in 2018 before being signed to AEW in 2019 and becoming a member of The Varsity Blondes alongside Griff Garrison and Julia Hart. Since 2023 , King has been signed to WWE and is currently in NXT.

Leati Joseph Anoa’i ( Roman Reigns ) and Matthew Tapunu’u Anoa’i ( Rosey) - 3rd Generation. They are the grandsons of Amituana’i Anoa’i and the sons of Sika and the nephews of Afa. Rosey is a one time WWF Tag Team Champion and Roman is the 4th longest reigning Undisputed WWE Universal Heavyweight Champion. Rosey passed away in 2017.

Leah Van Dale ( Carmella )- 2nd Generation . She is the daughter of Paul Van Dale . Paul Van Dale was mainly used an Enhancement Talent in WWE for their top stars. Van Dale was the opponent for Razor Ramon when he made his WWE debut in 1992. Carmella was signed to WWE in 2013 and is the Inaugural Ms Money In The Bank, 4x 24/7 Champion, 1x Women’s Tag Team Champion ( with Queen Zelina ) , 1x Smackdown Women’s Champion, 2019 Wrestlemania Women’s Battle Royal Winner , and part of the Mixed Match Challenge with R-Truth

Ashley Elizabeth Fliehr ( Charlotte Flair ) - 2nd Generation. She is the daughter of The Nature Boy , Ric Flair. She made two appearances in WCW in 1993 and 2000. Charlotte was signed to WWE in 2012. She is the final WWE Divas Champion, a 2x NXT Women’s Champion, a 6x and Inaugural RAW Women’s Champion, 7x Smackdown Women’s Champion, Participant in the 2014 NXT Women’s Championship Tournament, 1x Women’s Tag Team Champion ( alongside Asuka ) , 2020 Women’s Royal Rumble Winner ,5th Women’s Triple Crown Champion, 4th Women’s Grand Slam Champion

My Final Thoughts:

I’m writing this article series to explain wrestling family dynasties and how we have new stars out of each family . While working on this one , I never knew that Carmella was a second generation wrestler. I briefly discussed her father in my article about Razor Ramon. I’ll probably have part 2 up later.

Love You All,

- Kay

#wwe #aew #carmella wwe #world championship wrestling #hook aew #wrestling legend #charlotte flair #the bloodline #roman reigns #lexis king #ric flair #wwe legends #classic wrestling

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