#taiyang (mentioned)

[blackhakumen]

Mini Fanfic 1210: Gardening with Mr. Xiao Long (RWBY)

2:41 p.m. The Xiao Long Cabin's Backyard........

'Cling'

Oscar: ('Phew') (Uses his Arm to Wipe the Sweat Off his Forehead While Panting and Holding onto the Stick Part of the Shovel He Placed Next to the Now Slightly Shaded Garden) Okay! I think....That's everything.....for now.....

Tai: (Chuckles Lightly) Hey now, don't get tired on me just yet there, kiddo! I thought you're used to this kind of work.

Oscar: (Turns to his Girlfriend's Father) I am. Heck, I'm all for doing more of it nowadays, but not in this level of heat capacity. It's unbearable!

Tai: That's the Summer Heat for ya. It's so hot that it could make even most strongest willed warriors worn out after a while.

Oscar: Yeah, but did it really have to be here now? It's not even technically Summer yet!

Tai: (Smiles More Sheepishly) True, but it.....practically already start the moment the first day of June came around, so.....

Oscar: ('Sigh') You're not wrong there. The road was already filled with traffic before Ren brought me here.

Tai: (Shrugs) Eh. The roads are always busy in Patch, no matter the season- (Forms a Cheeky Grin) Or Weather the forecast~

'Badum Tssss'

Oscar: (Eyes Widened Before Slowly Turning his Head to Taiyang) Was that pun you made just now?

Tai: Yep! Been a long while since I've made one believe it or not, so I gotta make up for lost times. 'Less I wanna be pass my- (Points and Shows Off his Watch) time! (Chuckles Some More)

Oscar: ('Sigh') You are definitely Yang's father alrght.....

Tai: Hey, if you can stomach through my little firecracker's puns on a daily, you can handle a few of mines as well. (Wraps his Arm Around Oscar's Shoulder) Now, come on, let's head back in and get away from this heatwave before it gets even more un-BEAR-able! (Let's Out a Single Laugh Before Walking Himself and Oscar Back to the House) I still got it.

Oscar: (Oh god. He really is the King of Corny Dad Puns......)

Inside of Xiao Long's Cabin............

Tai: (Pouring a Two Glasses of Cold Lemonade for Both Him and Oscar) Thanks again for helping me take care of the garden out there, Oscar. There's no way I would've gotten everything done alone in that heat. (Hands Oscar his Drink)

Oscar: (Smiles Softly) It's no problem at all, Mr. Xiao Long. As exhausting as today was, I'm glad we got the chance to spend time together today at least. You're a pretty good company to have around. (Takes a Sip of his Drink)

Tai: (Smiles Brightly) Likewise, kiddo! Better be careful now. (Forms a Playful Smirk) We wouldn't want the girls thinking I'm stealing you away from them.

Oscar: ('Scoffs') Please. As if those two would ever get mad at their dad, let alone over me of all people.

Tai: (Takes a Sip of his Lemonade) I dunno. You seem like a pretty lovable guy for people to protect and fight tooth and nail over.

Oscar: That's true. I can't begin to tell you how many legs Nora broken trying to kept me from getting killed in battle......

Tai: (Chuckles Lightly) Is that right? I take it her and Pyrrha playing the mother hens these days?

Oscar: Yep. They can be a bit much at times, but I still love 'em regardless. Jaune and Ren too. They're all are amazing to have around.

Tai: Good! I'm happy life been treating you a whole lot better these days, especially after all the crap you all had to endure.

Oscar: ('Sighs Heavily') You said it. To this day, it still surprises how far I've come to here, with and without Ozpin's help.

Tai: You ever missed having him around?

Oscar: Sometimes. We never see eye-to-eye in a few instances, but it was nice to have him around inside my head until the very end, especially when we're both at the lowest we've been in our lives.

Tai: (Smiles Softly) I'm glad you two got along throughout all of it. That man has been a tortured soul for as long as i knew him, which made sense to me why he doesn't trust people as easily as either of us do these days.

Oscar: ('Sigh') Yeah, that's been a century issue believe it or not. B-But he had gotten better at it overtime! Even more so when everyone stop being angry and gave him one more chance, despite their trust in him weren't the same as it was before. (Sighs Once More) But regardless, I'm just glad he's finally resting in peace now.

Tai (Happily Nodded in Agreement) As he should.

Oscar and Taiyang raise their glasses of lemonade towards one another before taking another sip of their respective drinks.

Tai: ('Sighs Relaxingly') You know, Ruby's been talking about you quite a lot these days.

Oscar: She has?

Tai: Yeah. Way before you two started dating. I mean, she talks a lot about her and your friends as well, but....not exactly in a way she does on you, if you catch my drift.

Oscar: I- (Raises an Eyebrow a Bit in Confusion) think so?

Tai: Like, how happy you've made her and how you've inspired her to better herself as huntress and person and what have you.

Oscar: Ohhh! Okay, gotcha. (Chuckles a But Before Rubbing The Back of his Head and Putting on a More Sheepish Smile) I honestly feel like she inspired me a lot more if anything. Can't imagine what my life would've been like if Oz didn't convinced me to go meet her and the others in Mistral.......

Tai: (Casually Shrugs) I'm sure you two would've met under different circumstances. (Smiles Brightly) Even then, there wouldn't be any doubt in my mind that you two would be a perfect match for one another.

Oscar: (Stares at Taiyang For a Brief Second Before Happily Bowing his Head to Him) Thank you, sir. I'm not as strong as Ruby, at least when it comes to combat, but I promise I'll continue to keep her safe.

Tai: You don't have to the strongest in the globe to try and look after her, yoi know? You're a team, partners in crime busting. You really think Ruby gonna let you fight on your own at your very lowest?

Oscar: No, she would beat 'em down in a bloody pulp if anyone dares lay a finger on me. Her words.

Tai: (Burst Out Laughing) Exactly! She'll always have your back and you'll always have hers, even when she'll propose to you on the spot one of these days!

Oscar: Pretty sure that's too early to- Wait. (Raises an Eyebrow Again) You think Ruby will propose before me?

Tai: (Forms a Cheeky Grin) I believe so, yes~ Girl's loves you way too much not to at this point. Especially since she takes under her mother, Summer.

Oscar: She proposed to you in the past?

Tai: Oh yeah. Night out under the stars, in the middle of the forest. (Starts Snickering) She quickly swept me off my feet and kissed me the very moment I said "Yes". That was like the most romantic thing she'd done yet!

Oscar: (Chuckles Lightly) Oho she is definitely Ruby's mom alright.

Tai: What? She swepts you off your feet too?

Oscar: More times than I can could.

'Door Opens'

WE'RE HOOOOOOME!~

Oscar: (Sighs as He and Tai Turns to See Two Very Familiar Faces Entering the Room) Speaking of which.......

Tai: (Smiles Brightly at his Two Daughters, Ruby and Yang) Hey there, ladies! How was your mini patrol today?

Yang: (Rolls her Eyes a Bit) As uneventfully time wasting as you can imagine.

Ruby: Yeah, they weren't any sight of Grimm anywhere so they let us come back home early. Which is great- (Rushes Over and Hugs Oscar Very Lovingly) Cause we missed you like crazy, honey!~

Yang: (Gently Ruffles the Top of Oscar's Hair With a Bright Smile) Hope you and dad had a great time at home together today. He wasn't boring you too much, was he?

Oscar: Nah. Not really. He was cool enough to make us both lemonade after I helped him take care of his garden and whatnot.

Tai: (Forms Another Cheeky Grin) I'm a good company in his eyes. Possibly better you girls are.

Yang: ('Playfully Scoffs') Please. I'm a FAR more funner company for him than you'll be, old man.

Ruby: (Starts Pouting at her Sister and Father) Um hello! Girlfriend in the room! I'm clearly the most superior company he ever has around here!~

Yang: Over Nora? I don't believe it.

Tai: Yeah, that kind seems far fetched there, kiddo.

Ruby: (Comically Glares at the Two) IS NOT!!

Oscar: Guys, guys, you ALL are amazing company to me. Now cool already.

Yang: (Points at Ruby) I will once she's brave enough to pop the question~

Ruby: (Turns to Yang) Hey! I'll put a ring on his finger one of these days, quit rushing me!!

Tai: (Watches the Girls Bicker Along with a Flustered Oscar) Well, whaddya know? (Gives Oscar a Bit of a Cocky Like Smirk) I was right on the money this hole-time~

'Bada Tssssss'

Oscar: (Gives his Future Father in Law a Deadpinned Look) Don't start. (Turns Back to his Girlfriend) Hey Ruby, I have a surprise to give you if you shimmer down a bit.

Ruby: (Growling at Tongue Sticked Out Yang Before Quickly Turning Back to Oscar) ('Gasps') You do? Truly?

Oscar: Yeah. (Gets Himself Up From his Seat) It's not much, but consider this a token for your hardwork as a huntress- (Gives Ruby a Kiss on the Cheek Before Turning Away, Blushing and Smiling a Little) As well as being the best girlfriend I could ever ask for~

Yang: (Clasps her Hands Together in Awe) Awwww~ That's so sweet~

Tai: (Chuckles Lightly) And very gentleman like!~ That kid's a real keeper, Ruby.

Ruby: (Giggles Softly While Blushing as Well) You darn right he is!~ (Hugs Oscar Again) How bold of you to kiss me in front if my dad like that, Mister Farm Boi!~

Oscar: (Shrugs) Yeah, well, it took every nerve in my body to even think about doing this. Don't expect this to be a recurring thing.

Ruby: Don't worry, I won't. (Forms a Mischievous Grin on her Face) Buuuuuuuuut~

Oscar: Oh god, what is it?

Ruby: Given that you've been so kind as to bond and help my dad with gardening, I think it's right that I return a favor, no?~

Oscar: Yeah, sure, if that's what you wanna- DO!? (Immediately Gets Swept Off His Feet by Ruby)

Ruby: (Happily Carrying Oscar in a Bridal Carry) Of course!~ (Looks Down at Oscar With a More Flirtatious Smirk on her Face) Now brace yourself and plucked up~ (Ignite her Kissy Fury Upon Oscar's Freckled Face)

Oscar: (Chuckles Ticklishly by Ruby's Love and Affection) Rubyhehehe!~ Not in front of your familyhe!~

Yang: (Let's Out a Bit of a Playful Grossed Out Noise While Watching the Couple's Antics Along with Her Father) ('Ugh') Young love.

Tai: (Smirks at Yang) Oh and like you haven't done the same to Blake.

Yang: Hey, at least we had the common decency to do it closed doors. Those two have no shame at all!

Tai: Just like your mother and I~

Yang: Summer or Raven?

Tai: ...............Yes.

Yang: (Sighs While Rolling her Eyes) Barf.

Tai: Hey, you asked!

Yang: And I'm regretting it as we speak! (Turns Back to Taiyang) Get off my freaking back!!

Tai: Twerp!

Yang: Old Fart!

Tai and Yang glare at each other for a few seconds before they start breaking down laughing.

Yang: ('Sigh') But no seriously though, dad. I'm glad you like Oscar.

Tai: (Smiles Softly as He Wrap his Arm Around his Elder Daughter's Arm) I am too, Yang. He's a really good kid and so long as he keeps my girl happy, that's good enough for me. Though I do wish he would appericate my puns a lot more. I'm getting desperate here.

Yang: (Gently Pats her Dad on the Back) He'll come around to them eventually.

Happy Father's Day!!!

@ma-lemons

@albion-93

@bestpony666

@maripr

@rwbyrosegardenweek

[lizarr7]

Next batch: team STRQ! aka, the adults, featuring; antlers. Antlers are really frikin cool and half the reason for drawing deer, but holy crap, they are also a royal pain.

[sarcasticvoodoochild]

need to put these two in a room together and see what they talk about

[zozoistireds-blog]

The Light Of The Future: STR Vacation

Tai, summer and raven about 4-5 years after Salem's defeat and about 2 years after summer was saved from her grimm from the three decided to go to vacuo for a minor vacation and to also help yang who had been stationed there to help rebuild. (Yang was the one to take the photo and the one to convince her mum to join in)

Also bonus: flat color version

[brokenladee]

Rwby volume 9 train of thought:

Everyone in Remnent believes team RWBY and Jaune are dead...(unless Ozpin mentioned something) so at some point Qrow would have told Taiyang that his daughters are dead...

That’s one messed up conversation that I wouldn’t want to see.

Things were already tense between Taiyang and Qrow (most likely to do with Summer) so that news...yikes

[unlockthestars]

Tai deals with severe depression, which would likely be classified as MDD (major depressive disorder). It's something he's struggled with pretty much all of his life, but by far the worst two periods were after Raven left and after Summer died.

In both instances, he went practically catatonic, not moving or speaking, barely doing the minimum needed in order to keep himself alive, and only that because there were other people around.

Summer and Qrow helped take care of baby Yang…., and then after Summer died…., Tai knows that he dropped the ball, that Yang, young as she was, had to pick up the pieces.

The day that Qrow saved Yang and Ruby from a Grimm attack was something of a wake-up call for Tai, and he started actively working on managing his depression. He started therapy, and working through things.

That's also where Zwei comes in. He's more than just a pet; he's Tai's service dog. Zwei helps to keep him calm as needed, and he's also trained to pick up objects and bring them to Tai, as well. Additionally, he'll alert if Tai starts to exhibit any dangerous or harmful behaviour, for example.

Tai's doing a lot better, but he's still aware of just how bad he can get, and he's doing his best not to allow himself to get that bad again.

[thesparringpanther]

It's more thematic that Tai stays away from the plot because he's too burnt out to deal with Salem again and uses Yang as a proxy, accidentally or not, than to reveal he's been guarding something important the entire time.

[incorrect-strq-quotes]

Taiyang: Literally nothing is better than repeatedly doing a bit your partner doesn't like.

Summer: Whenever Qrow mentions being bi, I shout "You're bi?!" as if I'm just learning it for the first time.

Raven: Whenever Tai comes into our room, I always respond with "How did you get past security?"

Qrow: I pretend to be angry and say "I'm going cycling don't wait up" and then I get on the stationary bike directly next to the treadmill Summer is running on.

[anthurak]

So I think we all understand at this point that much of the Fairy Tales of Remnant and various other in-universe folktales and legends that have been told or otherwise mentioned up to now are IMPORTANT. That these stories, particularly the ones that are given some kind of focus, are meant to relate to specific events or characters and generally foreshadow things that will happen or be revealed in the show. Whether in the direct sense of ‘this story is actually relating real events that are significant to characters’ like The Story of the Seasons to the Maidens and Oz, or in more indirect, symbolic fashion like Oscar and Ozpin idly discussing The Girl Who Fell Through the World in Volume 8.

Suffice to say, fairy tales in RWBY clearly MEAN something. Especially if a fairy tale is clearly being connected to a character or characters.

To that end, going forward I think we should really be looking at The Warrior in the Woods, and in-particular the animated short, as being narratively tied to Summer, Raven and Taiyang. And specifically meant to foreshadow what Taiyang’s relationship with Summer and Raven was REALLY like.

For one, the connection the animated short draws is not exactly subtle. The short is flat out framed as Tai reading the story to Ruby and Yang for bedtime, with the boy in the story looking like a young version of Tai while the titular Warrior looks literally like a combination of Summer and Raven. And to top it all off, the story even broadly reflects what we already know about the relationships of the three; with the young man losing the woman he so admired and loved just like Tai lost Summer and Raven. Again, the connections are not in ANY way subtle here.

So with that base established, what more can we potentially glean as foreshadowing here?

Well, as I’ve stated in previous posts, I think it is telling that while the Boy in the story did love the Warrior, it is ultimately a tragic, doomed love that was never meant to be.

And more than that, the story notably only gives us the perspective of the boy, and never the Warrior. And likewise, we never learn how the Warrior truly felt about the boy. She clearly cared about him, enough to consider him something of a friend, but did she feel about him like he felt about her? The story never makes this clear, and I think that in and of itself is rather telling: Despite the boy’s attempts to reach out to her, the Warrior maintains her distance. Whatever growing care or affection she might have felt for the boy, it clearly wasn’t nearly enough to get her to break her isolation or duty to safeguard the village in secret. While the boy may have loved the Warrior, it was a love that in all likelihood, could not and was not returned.

So when we apply this to Taiyang, Summer and Raven, a rather bleak picture emerges: That Tai’s relationships with Raven or Summer were NEVER going to work out. Or that neither Summer NOR Raven actually loved Tai in the same way he loved either of them.

And the thing is, this IS supported even by what little we have seen of Tai, Summer and Raven. Just like in the story, we have been told of Tai’s love for Summer and Raven, yet told precious little of how either of THEM felt about Tai. And what little we HAVE been told or shown has left it rather questionable how either of them cared for Tai.

Raven has made it clear that she cares little for Taiyang in the present, which really raises the question of how or if the two were ever in a relationship in the past. And while the existence of Yang might imply some kind of relationship, let’s also consider the possibility that Yang was actually an unplanned pregnancy. The result of a possible drunken, one-night-stand between Raven and Tai. Which would certainly put Raven’s reluctance to be a mother in a VERY different context.

Then we have Summer, and thanks to Ruby’s tree-vision, I think we can count her feelings for Taiyang as being at best ‘ambiguous’.

For one, as I’ve stated elsewhere, Summer’s scene with Taiyang is curiously lacking in especially overt romantic gestures. A lack of noticeable flirting or particularly romantic physical acts like a kiss. They do hug, but as I’ve said before, RWBY has used these close, intimate hugs just as much if not more often to convey platonic or familial affection. Note also that Taiyang is the one to clearly initiate the hug, not Summer

More than any of that, it’s clear that Summer is putting on an act for Tai in this scene. In the scene she is clearly pensive and uncertain and maybe even afraid, but the moment Tai walks in, Summer immediately adopts a mask of ‘everything is normal, don’t worry about anything’. Which calls into question how much of anything Summer does/says in this exchange is truly genuine, and how much is simply an act for Tai’s benefit.

Summer clearly does not trust Taiyang with the truth of what she is ACTUALLY doing. And the clear ease with which Summer assumes this mask implies that this is likely far from the first time Summer has done this.

Just compare Summer’s scene with Tai to both her previous scene with the sleeping Ruby and Yang, and her following scene with Raven; both showing Summer not putting on any kind of act for anyone else.

Most notably, despite whatever resentment she might feel towards Raven for leaving them (or perhaps just leaving her), Summer clearly trusts Raven, more than ANYONE, with helping her on this mission she considered so vitally important.

Summer certainly cared for Taiyang, that much is clear. Otherwise she wouldn’t put so much effort into reassuring him that everything was fine.

But did she love Tai in way that he loved her? Or was it simply a role she went along with for his, and possibly more-so Ruby’s and Yang’s benefit? Given the clear emotional mask and barrier we see her put up when around Tai, I would call the answer, at BEST, ambiguous.

Which all ties perfectly into what we see in The Warrior in the Woods.

The boy in the story, who is presented as looking just like Tai, loved a mysterious but noble warrior, who is presented as looking like Raven AND Summer. But the love the boy felt could not or was not returned and the warrior would instead vanish into the night. Just like Summer and Raven did.

Oh, and the ending of the story match-cutting a shot of the ‘cross between Summer and Raven’ Warrior to a shot of Ruby who likewise has a lot of visual similarities to Raven as well as Summer MIGHT be hinting at something too…

[princesscallyie]

Here's Kingsley's redesign. The unexpected glow up!

Kingsley's whole arc is that his desire for justice and to protect everyone, awakens a rage within him. He also develops a kinda twisted sense of morality as time goes by. As he starts to believe the end justifies the means, and the only way to get the upper hand is to play the same game their enemies are playing. Whatever the costs. As mentioned in the plot synopsis, Kingsley is angry, mostly at himself for being so weak. He feels like he's not meant to lead if he doesn't have the strength to protect everyone. He must become stronger to defeat the YBA and all evil. This leads to him finding and injecting himself with Jojo's Chemical X serum.

This serum is unstable as it's been sitting dormant for so long, and would have killed him if Hank and the rest of the Technology Department didn't band together to save him. Though his case is way more complicated than they can handle, so Kingsley is under the care of Blossom and the VL's generous benefactor, Dexter. Kingsley wears Dexter's invention, the Vita-Pack, to track his vitals and forces him into a "Cool-Down Cycle" if he happens to approach his limit, as limit breaking could be catastrophic for him. He can reach Limit Break by overexerting himself or by being consume with an intense rage, which he is prone to under the serum. Being called weak is a big trigger for him.

He uses a bo staff he designed himself after being trained by Taiyang and Xiang. His super enhanced muscle memory allowed him to learn to fight quicker than normal, though he still prefers to use his mind to gain the upper hand.

[notmaplemable]

Opinion on DragonSlayer?

Ah, Dragonslayer. Definitely has one of the better ship names in the RWBY fandom. Also I'm just going to you DS from now on because I'm tired.

Values and personality wise, I think they work well together. With Yang pushing Jaune out of his comfort zone, and being there for him when he falls down. And Jaune being there for Yang when she's feeling vulnerable and needs some support. They both have a way of keeping each other going in tough times. They're both very family oriented. Plus they can probably bond over being an older sibling, and maybe having some parental troubles depending on how you write the Arcs.

And yeah, the comparisons between Jaune and Taiyang are obvious.

Though personally I break DS down into two eras. Beacon era DS and post Beacon DS.

During their time at Beacon, I don't really see them getting together. I can absolutely see Jaune having a thing for Yang. You could even convince me that Yang has feelings for him as well, but I still don't really think she would. And even if she did I don't see her really perusing that relationship.

Mostly because I don't really think Yang would be perusing a romantic relationship during their first year at Beacon. She's looking for Raven. Trying to balance getting a bit a freedom and still taking care of Ruby while still giving her enough space to grow on her own a little bit. Not to mention just making sure Ruby doesn't get herself hurt. While also making sure Blake doesn't run off and do anything crazy again.

You don't have much time for relationships when your the team mom.

And if she was going to get into a romantic relationship, it would be with someone like Sun, Blake, Ren, or Pyrrha. Simply because Jaune hasn't really had a chance to show off the traits that would make them work well together to her, and she wouldn't value those traits as much as she would later on. She would just views Jaune as Ruby's friend and the guy who threw up on her boots.

But that doesn't mean that it can't happen, but you would need to force them together often and in ways where Jaune could show those positive traits of his. I've read fics that have done that. Or you could do an AU where they're partners, childhood friends, etc.

Now post fall DS is where it's at.

They've both had opportunities to mature over V4 and 5. Yang would certainly appreciate Jaune keeping Ruby safe when she couldn't. And I think would start to see more of Jaune's good traits, while certainly relating to a few of his problems in those volumes. Certainly the anger and charging in problems.

So I think that spark would be lit there, probably soon after they deal with all the Haven stuff. With some awkward flirting before they get to Argus. Once Jaune gets a little bit of closure with Pyrrha, then I'd think they would have a talk and try to figure something out there. With Saphron listening in of course.

So yeah.

DS has a lot to like about it. Jaune and Yang work well together and are both very family focused. While also having a good few areas of contrast to not make it feel like it's two versions of the same character dating. It just needs a little time to mature to really reach to peak of it's potential.

7/10 at Beacon.

9/10 after Beacon.

[lovingdabeessss]

No idea how this would come about but just imagining Summer seeing her daughters in Vacuo and stuff happens and Ruby just casually mentions, "Oh yeah Yang raised me." like not even too Summer but she hears it and is just like, "Um, what?"

Cue Yang trying to step in and be like, "Oh she just means I helped out cos you know, things were tough for a bit, not your fault-"

Ruby: No I mean Yang raised me, like dad was there I guess, he's, ya know... Dad?

Yang: See she calls Tai dad, I can't have been raising her if she does that.

Ruby: I used to call the teachers Yang.

Yang: U-

Summer: Sweetheart let your little sister speak.

Ruby: I just mean like, Yang fed me, taught me, got me to school, read to me, helped with my studying, shopping, and like... Everything?

Summer: And what did Tai do?

Ruby: he was... There? He said stuff sometimes?

Summer: I... See.... So you had to raise yourself and your little sister alone, Yang?

Yang:... Qrow was also there?

Summer: and what was that like?

Yang & Ruby (Flashing back to holding Qrow's hair as he throws up in the toiled)

Both: Uuuuuum

GOD that’s so Yang to go immediately into damage control mode

Yangs a chronic taiyang defender for many many reasons and it has several negative consequences but we don’t have time to get into all that cause I need to sleep soon even though I totally want to get into that

And that’s so Ruby to actually address the issue I never give ruby enough credit for being physically able to do that without needing to immediately fix it just address it

But this breaks my heart all the more because not only is it a damage control and her trying to make sure her mom doesn’t feel guilty but also because it’s summer it gives so much of the vibe of yang trying to get Ruby not to tell on her

Like Yang feeling guilty for having taken care of Ruby like she’s done something wrong because summer definitely isn’t going to be happy about it and she doesn’t want to upset summer the second she got back and she also probably has a lot of guilt over maybe not doing the most amazing job raising Ruby

Also Yang just refusing to acknowledge to people anything bad has ever happened to her is so very Yang

I love thinking about summer interacting with her kids again it’s always so good

[bestworstcase]

You know, if the possibility of Summer not only being Salem's final lieutenant, but also possibly the person who accidentally killed the Spring Maiden (and who might also be Gretchen Rainart based on a previous theory mentioned somewhere)...

That's gotta be reaaaaaaally awkward if Summer was ever around Hazel at any point.

i’ve mentioned this before i think (<- i assume by “mentioned somewhere” you mean you read a theory post but can’t remember where in which case, the op was probably me, i’ve been on this train for a while) but:

the official story is that gretchen rainart, after enrolling at beacon academy, “tragically lost her life” on a training mission

per lionheart, the spring maiden was “determined, at first, when she inherited her powers, but the weight of responsibility proved to be too much for the child. she... ran. abandoned her training, everyone. that was over a decade ago.”

per raven: “she was scared when we found her! weak! no matter how much training i put her through, she never learned! she wasn’t cut out for this world! and with those powers, she would’ve been hunted her entire life. what i did—”

(“and which we are you referring to?”)

raven: “that’s why i tried to leave when i did. i’m not afraid, i’m smart.”

raven left taiyang shortly after yang was born. this would be approx. 15-16 years ago as of the beginning of V1. however, her statement that she “tried to leave” suggests that she stayed (reluctantly?) entangled with ozpin’s cause for longer.

eyeballing it, summer left when yang was around five and ruby about three. this would be about 12 years before the start of V1 and 3-4 years after raven broke things off with tai. since raven and summer were obviously still in close contact then, this tracks with the interpretation that leaving tai <> leaving ozpin.

‘more than a decade ago’ is vague but presumably means >10 and <20. so spring running away would have occurred approx. 10-18 years before the start of V1.

hm.

“nice story. but if gretchen’s death taught me anything, it was never to trust you.”

let’s consider the case of the runaway spring maiden. and, more specifically, the assumptions the fandom (myself included) have tended to make.

first assumption: the spring maiden trained in mistral or at haven academy.

no one ever says as much. qrow’s suggestion that the spring maiden was “picked up” by the branwen tribe after she ran away does not, in a world where trans-continental travel is commonplace (and was explicitly safer a decade+ ago than it is now), necessarily imply she ran away from haven. weiss got picked up by the branwen tribe after she ran away from atlas, after all.

likewise, amber’s presence at beacon and, later, fria’s in atlas prime the audience to link the spring maiden to haven. however, both amber and fria were in the academies because they were medically fragile and not expected to live for very long; prior to cinder’s attack, amber was traveling in rural vale, tailed by qrow. it also makes sense, in general, not to keep the living keys to the vaults in the same fortress as the vault they can open.

second assumption: lionheart knew her.

this follows from the assumption that she attended haven, but look at what’s missing from lionheart’s account: he never uses self-referential pronouns. his syntax leaves it ambiguous whether he knew this girl or if he’s simply repeating information he was given.

third assumption: raven’s “we” is the tribe, and she’s talking about finding the spring maiden after the girl ran away.

before V9, this was more plausible, but i don’t think it adds up now that we know raven was still at least notionally aligned with ozpin, via summer, as recently as twelve years ago. in order for “we” to mean the tribe, raven would have had to actually leave (as opposed to “trying to leave”); thus, either summer was conspiring with raven while raven was leading the tribe, or raven met the spring maiden after whatever went down with summer, in which case the third person involved is a complete mystery. the former is possible, but i think the simpler explanation—that this “we” is ozpin’s circle—is more plausible.

especially because what raven says lines up with what lionheart says. except for “she was determined at first,” but even if lionheart did know her, raven was clearly much closer to her and is the type to see through any façade the girl might have put up. (pyrrha was also “determined” but you know that if raven knew her, she would remember how scared pyrrha was. same principle likely applies here.)

fourth assumption: “what i did—” is solely about raven mercy-killing her.

which, it might be.

but if “we” means ozpin’s circle, that would mean raven was training the spring maiden on his behalf—and because it doesn’t really make sense for #3 to be anyone but the spring maiden, we can assume with high confidence that raven had a kindred link with her, ergo she loved the kid like her own family.

the spring maiden “ran away.” gretchen rainart “tragically lost her life on a training mission.” raven “tried to leave.” summer and raven and a third person were involved in a rogue mission to end things once and for all, none of them ever came back, and raven never told anyone what happened.

all of these things happened a bit more than a decade ago.

“what i did—”

i think she’s talking about summer’s last mission. the young spring maiden was overwhelmed, scared, struggling to learn what she needed to learn—and she had a huge target painted on her back because of salem. raven cared about her. if she wasn’t cut out for this world, the one defined by eternal war between ozpin and salem, then maybe the answer is to change the world. end it, once and for all. (sometimes it’s worth it all to risk the fall?) so she conspires with summer to do exactly that.

and then it goes so catastrophically wrong that a) summer joins salem, b) there’s a fight, c) gretchen is mortally wounded, d) raven either mercy-kills her or just can’t save her, and e) raven becomes the spring maiden.

ok.

now. if gretchen was the spring maiden, how do we square the circle of “died on a training mission” vs “ran away”?

in V3, qrow talks about having to search for maidens and in V5, ozpin says that one of the reasons he gave the branwens bird forms was to make it easier for them to search for new maidens when the transference of power was “unclear.” gretchen enrolled at beacon “against her brother’s wishes” and hazel holds ozpin responsible for her death; i think she was the spring maiden before she enrolled, raven identified her, and ozpin recruited her personally.

(if only because unknown maidens are mentioned twice in connection with the branwens and that has yet to pay narrative dividends; and it fits quite nicely.)

it does not go well. gretchen gets more freaked out with every new inkling she’s given of the conspiracy and is under intense pressure not to back out or tell anyone on the outside what’s happening. raven, her mentor/handler, sours more and more on the whole situation and eventually decides she’s not going to be a part of it anymore.

she’s not backing down from the fight. she’s not running away. but she’ll give gretchen a way out and make sure no one else can find her, and if that blows up her relationships with the rest of the inner circle, so be it.

so the spring maiden runs away. “abandons” her training, except raven still knows where she is and is still trying to help her figure out the magic because, well, she’s sort of stuck with it until she dies. gretchen can’t go home yet (salem might find her), but she can lay low and focus on mastering this power to defend herself away from the pressure of being one of ozpin’s guardians.

raven refuses to tell anyone where gretchen is. hazel is getting increasingly frantic; either she’s dropped out of contact or her vague, cryptic messages have him worried. nobody at beacon can give him a clear answer.

several years go by. the situation does not improve. somehow or another summer and raven cook up a plan to Fix Everything by taking salem down. it goes horribly wrong. summer joined salem, gretchen is dead, raven is the one left standing with blood on her hands and magic in her soul, after years of obfuscating where the spring maiden went.

what to do?

tell no one about summer. no one would fucking believe her if she told the truth. refuse to answer questions about her bond to summer, no one will think twice about her doing that because it’s what she did when gretchen went missing, too.

tell hazel gretchen is dead. he deserves to know. what happened, and why it happened, but leaving out summer’s involvement. if she’s vague on how and when—if she makes it sound like she was too cowardly to tell anyone that she, perhaps, let gretchen die (“[you saved yang] once. because that was your rule.” <- qrow really believes this)—or couldn’t save her—she can reveal that gretchen is dead without linking her death too obviously to summer’s disappearance.

if ozpin hears that gretchen is dead from hazel—when the infuriated meltdown rampage happens—then he can quietly tap qrow to confirm (by talking to raven) and restrict who knows the truth; hazel’s explosive grieving anger is easy to spin as hysterical paranoia.

and playing gretchen’s death “close to the chest” is a classic ozpin move. after all, learning that gretchen has been dead the whole time will only sow negativity, and the situation doesn’t materially change very much either way; they’re looking for the spring maiden either way, and everyone is aware that gretchen might die before they find her, so they’re already keeping an eye out for unknowns. qrow knows the truth, but he’s not about to spill the beans to anyone without ozpin’s say so.

and summer’s the one who suggests recruiting hazel to salem, because it’s her fault gretchen is dead but she can at least bring hazel into the fight to tear down the system that led her there. (“you’ve never wondered why she recruited you? you, specifically, to help her find the relics?” <- a narratively interesting line of attack in that it explicitly puts this question in front of the audience, follows up with an unequivocal confirmation that salem sought hazel out very deliberately, and follows that with ozpin’s overtly manipulative and unsatisfying answer of “because hazel is easy to manipulate.” lots of people are easy to manipulate. why choose hazel? how did she even know about Just Some Guy who lost his sister?)

like

all it really requires to tie everything together around the discrepancies is for ozpin (a liar) and raven (a matryoshka doll of secrets she refuses to talk about) to be, er, lying and keeping secrets. and narratively gretchen being the spring maiden just makes sense, to almost the same degree that summer joining salem just makes sense. it’s intuitive. it fills in gaps the narrative quietly circled in V8. it tracks with gretchen being so important in the same volume that makes a huge thing of how no one knows what salem is really after. no more gretchens; so you’ve decided against vengeance for your sister, after all this time?; in pursuit of a new world.

but yeah like. it’s fun because hazel is so malleable and so good at pretzeling his thinking that he could conceivably have been told the truth—summer killed gretchen—and still been talked around to aiming all of his fury and vengeance at ozpin because 1. ozpin is the reason gretchen got pulled into this mess, and 2. gretchen died in the crossfires of a fight that broke out when summer learned the truth (that the war was one-sided paranoia), and 3. for salem and summer the point of this war is to end the paranoid conspiracy so nothing like this can happen again. but my god, the tension between him and summer could probably cut glass.

[bridgyrose]

You know, for someone we dont have the full story for, I think Taiyang gets a lot of flack for the little we do know. I'm probably kicking a hornet's nest, but a lot of it seems to be from a lot of people either trying to piece together a full story from missing pieces while making a lot of assumptions.

For instance, there's a lot of people going out of their way to say that he was emotionally abusive and neglectful because of a few things Yang has mentioned. But the truth is, we just... dont actually know what all happened. With the little we do know, there's a very fine line about what he's done that is abusive and what might not actually be abuse.

We know from Yang that he shut down and threw himself into his work and that she felt like she had to pick up the pieces to be there for Ruby. But beyond that, we dont actually know what things were actually like for them growing up. A lot of people read into this as Tai just not being there, but there's not really any evidence that supports that. It really does seem like he was there but more of a shell of himself. Taking care of his daughters but not himself enough for people to notice. Then there's the story that Yang told about running off with Ruby to try to find Raven. Its another story that we dont actually know the full circumstances beyond Yang saying that she waited for her dad to leave before packing up Ruby and heading out. A lot of people like to say he just left them alone, but again, we dont have that full story.

And chances are, we'll probably never get the full story. We'll probably never know what the Rose-Xiao long household was like when Yang and Ruby were growing up, never really know how much Taiyang was there in their lives or how much of it was him trying and failing to be there emotionally. I'm not going to say he was a perfect dad, but since Yang and Ruby do seem to have a decent relationship with him, he doesnt seem to be as bad of a dad as everyone likes to claim.

Maybe one day we'll get the full story, but until then, he just seems to be an okay dad that did his best when everything for him was at their worst.

[strqyr]

summer was the leader of team strq but she wasn't The Leader in the same way as ruby was. post-graduation, it's hard to imagine team strq acting as a team; raven and qrow were ozpin's spies flying around the world while summer and taiyang went on whatever missions ozpin sent them on.

they were all taking orders from ozpin. leadership wasn't really a burden summer had, so when the blacksmith speaks of the weight of other's expectations, what may have that looked like for her?

silver eyes are the only thing really that comes to mind, but... would that be fueled by the weight of other's expectations, or by the stories told of them as a power wielded by legendary warriors that even the grimm fear?

we were properly introduced to summer as her reading a bedtime story, a fairy tale. 'red like roses, part ii' mentions them too, from both ruby's and summer's perspective: "this little fairy tale doesn't seem to end well, there's no knight in shining armor who will wake me from the spell" // "this bedtime story ends with misery ever after, the pages are torn and there's no final chapter". even yang prefaces who salem has taken from her with a fairy tale mention: nobody gets a fairy tale ending.

so much of summer is centered around fairy tales as a concept, and it's really starting to make me think that it wasn't just the expectations of other's, but summer herself had built herself this 'persona' of a perfect hero directly lifted from fairy tales that also fed how others viewed her. a self-fulfilling prophecy, in a way.

"i am the reflection of who prevails, i'm what inspired the fairy tale."

[lesbianneopolitan]

Better idea: Taiyang adopts Neo after Ruby meets her and becomes Ruby and Yang’s sister.

This can connect with the AU I mentioned of Ruby meeting Neo when she was a kid as well LMAO